OK, I have been wanting to get in on a Succession Game lately, and it's been a while since a new one was formed, so I was wondering if anybody would want to join in on one with me?

Turnset length, difficulty, and settings can be determined by you guys, but I do have a single variation in mind.

The title of this thread is 'Apocalypse Now'... in my opinion ICBM's and nuclear weapons are underused in Civilization, mostly because of the huge rep hit you take when you fire one.

In this Succession Game, we will have to fire at least 5(?) nuclear weapons before victory, 3(?) of them have to instigate a war, and 1(?) of them has to instigate a war with an ally.

The numbers are changeable. And, of course, if people aren't too hot about this variation, we can do something else that I saw in an SG a while back:

Once the roster is finalized, you PM to the person that goes after you 2 variations: 1 major, and 1 minor.

A major variation can range from razing all captured towns to not building workers after a certain point in the game, and a minor variation can range from not adjusting any sliders to not winning during your turnset.

And, naturally, nobody else on the team (except for the one who gave them to you) knows what your variations are.

Post in this thread if you wish to join, or have any ideas.

Cheers!

SETTINGS SO FAR:

Archipelago

Big Map

Many Civs

Demi-God

No starting wars or tricking the AI into starting a war, but once war is declared on us it is AW until either us or them are dead. We can only instigate a war once the Manhattan Project has been constructed.

6 Nukes must be launched: two to instigate a war, and another to instigate a war with your ally. Additionally, there must be at least one RoP rape (with nukes) and one GPT deal broken (...with nukes).

ROSTER:


1. ThERat
2. SimpleMonkey
3. TheLoneMan
4. Blaze Injun
5. PaGe
6. D'Artagnan59

Signups Closed

Not a sign up, but how do expect the game to last to the ICBM stage?

Hard difficulty/Archipelago/Ghandi|Ghengis

I think on a difficulty high enough, the game might last until the MA, either DG or deity.
I think the first idea is a good one, it's up to the team to build a strong position until the MA where hell will be unleashed.

As in, we aren't allowed to win until the MA?

One way to get the game deep into the modern ages is to use lots of water and huge map and play for a conquest. It take time to take down the whole map.

The higher levels makes the tech go faster, just be sure not to make a custom map with high tech cost.

You can always let yourself last into the MA if you really want to. Last solo game I played got pushed all the way to the very end of the MA, since I wanted to acually research a Future Tech before I launched. It was at DG, so not a pushover.

Sounds like a good game for the Byz. :mischief:

So should we go with the first variation or the second?

... Or perhaps both?

SWEET!

I am so in this!

Hey,

Why not use the modern start mod. You might have to start with spears but you have the knowledge of nukes.

Blaze Injun

if you go for option 1 with ancient start on DG/Deity I will be in...It would be fun to prepare through the ages to be in the position to nuke them all...but since you asked for 4 nukes at least, it should be on a somewhat bigger map with more opponents.
Maybe you can try DG and are not allowed to fight (only defensive wars) until you have nukes. An archipelago would be suitable for that. You might be able to trigger the GA with a wonder.

Playing around with THERat's idea, how about a Gandhi/Genghis Khan hair-trigger temper variation? No declaring or tricking the AI into declaring on you, but once the AI decides to call out the dogs, it's always war with no quarter and no prisoners until either they or you are dead. There should still be someone left alive by the modern ages when the nukes must fly.

Not that I'm signing on exactly, but this could be interesting.

We'll probably need a few more people...:mischief:

'Nukes! Why did it have to be nukes?'

:woohoo:

I will lurk this one, even though I love the idea of Global Thermonuclear Holocaust with a side dish of Fried AI.

I just can't commit to another SG right now.

Sorry.

:cry:

I never have played DG, but on archipelago it shouldn't that big prob. I just ended a AWE with RaR, so I'm prepared for the AW option once the war has begun. But I'm more a builder than a warlord. LoneMan you must decide, if you try the game with me.

All right, since I apparently helped set some of the parameters for this one, I'm in. I can handle DG just fine with a good start. Still not so hot without an early settler factory. But we shall see.

You might be able to trigger the GA with a wonder.
Or, you could just play as the Americans. :mischief: The nuke using thing would certainly suit RW them. :mischief:
I would join, but alas, won't read disc bug... :( I'll be lurking.

Anybody who really knows his stuff want to join? I'm not perfect with DG and it seems a lot of the people on the roster aren't, either...

We should have some nice lurkers, and it's certainly easier as an SG, but nevertheless, one more veteran (or otherwise) player would be greatly appreciated.

Hey,

Thanks TheLoneMan for leaving me join. I agree a vetern player would be nice.

On to the nukes and never get off the boat. :scared:

Blaze Injun
GMT -5

I love the idea of Global Thermonuclear Holocaust with a side dish of Fried AI.

That's the spirit!

P.S. Signups are closed... sorry guys! I'll roll a few starts and post them by the end of the week.

Cheers!

Thx for taking me in. :woohoo:
So, let the games begin :nuke:

Please put me 6th.

Done.

Who has the most experience in MM and starts? I'd like to put them first...

My guess is ThERat first, then probably me. My classic starts with the Byz (almost a must civ for this one), is to start building dinky boats ASAP, make a run for Writing, then Philo, then the most expensive tech I can get free. (I believe that the common strategy is to go to the big picture as soon as Philo pops, make trades there to get an intermediate tech I don't have (e.g. Mathematics if I want Construction, Code of Laws if I can to snag Republic, then set research for the prize. In this game Monarchy is likely preferable to Republic, as we can't sue for peace if the AI declares.) Early contacts to trade for Pottery with a quickness to get a settler factory up and running. I'm finding that the SF is a must for any kind of game above emperor. How does this sound for prioritizing?

SimpleMonkey is quite right, max research for writing -> philo. Meanwhile sending out 3 dinkies for early and exclusive contacts for a nice trading game

I think it was perhaps Bede (can't recall exactly) who pointed out the value of cranking out max research from year one, even if it says 50 turns at both 100% and 10%. The difference in those few extra beakers per turn really adds up.

Even at DG, I may get beaten out for Writing, but making growth an early priority means that I rarely get beaten out for Philo.

TheLoneMan, does that mean you'll be putting ThERat and SimpleMonkey beefore or after you?

Before.

I'm still working on my starts, getting settler factories up, etc.

:bump: Waiting, TLM....

Still waiting.... :newyear: BTW.

Also :newyear:

LoneMan do you start the game or shall ThERat do it?

:bump: When do we start?

With these settings, our civ of choice would be the Byz, I think. Unless folks are just dying to try it as the Zulu. :mischief:

Spamming to subscribe. You have a great team. This should be really interesting:D

I now made 5 starts with the Byz. Hope we can dicuss and start then.

Save1:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Save1.jpg

Save2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Save2.jpg

Save3:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Save3.jpg

Save4:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Save4.jpg

Save5:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Save5.jpg

Start 1 has the opportunity of 2 bonus-ressources, a hut to pop and starting in the middle of the world, but seems to be a long thiny island with no forest to chop.

Start 2 has forest, but no other good tile for the beginning. It lies at the upper part of the world. The contacts will take too much time. The size of the island is not assessable.

Start 3 is not that bad. Has a lake and some bonus grassland. The continent doesn`t seem to be small.

Start 4 is the best IMO because of the river and the bonus grassland. The continent seems to be bigger either.

Start 5 is the worth one. To much in the east with tundra.

The river is the deciding factor. Must have the extra gold. Too bad that there's no food bonus, though. :sad:

Yep, Start 4 by far. Without the river, it ties with start 3, but with the river it becomes the best. BTW, I think start 1 is the worst- without irrigation, a city placed there wouldn't be able to grow above size 4.

I'd suggest someone start the game. Start 4 is clearly the best you have. Too bad your leader abandoned you before the first turn was played.

Agreed. I thought that ThERat was up first, then me. If he doesn't in the next 48 then I will on Saturday.

My suggestion for whoever takes it is settle in place (though I hate losing what looks like a BG under our founder's foot), move worker 1NE and start roading, then mine. Move on to BG on same side of river and repeat. Micromanage commerce and shields to suit. Build a dinky boat first, then warrior, then worker, then warrior, then settler. Set research at 100% for Writing.

Classic Byz open.

Also, I really hope that that's not a lake where we're putting up our first mud huts. Has anyone tested for fresh water?

I thought this game is dead...just discovered it's not :lol: you go ahead and play, simple monkey

But you're first on the roster, ThERat.

simple monkey, just confirm that you are starting this...

Got it! The fun begins tomorrow, 2pm EST. Look for a post by evening. :woohoo:

Well, you all saw the open screenie. We're starting on a river. Sadly, we must settle on a bonus grassland. We hope that more will appear once the first mud hut is built.

Turn 1 (4000BC) Move worker 1NW to begin work on the coastal BG. He reveals nothing but more coast. We found Constantinople in place. Here's what we've got.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/Opening.jpg

Set research to Writing at 100%. Set first build to a curragh in 8. The big water is indeed ocean.

Turn 2 (3950BC) Start worker roading. We want those beakers.

Turn 3 (3900BC) Roadwork continues.

Turn 4 (3850BC) & Turn 5 (3800BC) Road complete. We now have 6 beakers per turn! :woohoo: Start building mine to finish in 6. That should be when our next citizen will arrive. Curragh will complete before then.

Turn 6 (3750BC) to Turn 9 (3600BC) :sleep: Our curragh completes with one shield wastage. No getting around that. Start on a warrior for MP duty. Set the curragh paddling south. In his first three sweeps he sees nothing on shore except plains and some trees.

The worker is going to finish digging a mine in another two turns, right when the next citizen pops out. If my math works, that means we should get the warrior in the next turn. Let's see if monkey math works out.

Turn 11 (3550BC) Boat reveals more trees and plains, plus what looks like a tiny inland lake and a deer 9 tiles south of the capital. Don't think we'll be taking advantage of that deer for a while. Constantinople is about to pop plus get an extra shield. I contact the city governor to tell him not to make our new citizen a clown, but he may have been hitting the crack pipe, so I'm not sure if he got the idea.

Turn 12 (3500BC) I was right! (Sorta.) The governor did turn our new citizen into a clown, but not before we got the shields. Putting him back to work gets us our first ax-killer in one more turn with no wastage, which means only one turn with the lux slider at 10%.

Turn 13 (3450BC) Our borders expand revealing more grasslands and some mountains and hills to the east. This is unthrilling territory, but it looks like it will be nicely productive one day.

Move the worker 1NE to start roading the new tile.

Our boat reports back that there's some marshland two tiles away from the deer. Crap. I hate marshes.

Our warrior goes on sentry duty in the capitol and set production for another dinky boat. Lux goes back to zero. Worker starts roading again.

Turn 14 (3400BC) Boat rounds the southern coast and sets his sail northeast.

Turn 15 (3350BC) Some BG and other unexciting territory down south.

Turn 16 (3300BC) Road done. We're now at a whopping 8 beakers per turn! Start diggin'.

Dinky boat finds a gold hill along the coast and that's about it. Hey, at least we haven't run into any drunk barbarians yet.

Turn 17 (3250BC) Curragh completes. Set production to a second axeman. I hate to waste three turns building him, but we don't have much playing around to do with the tiles we have. No food bonuses to let us carry a scientist for one turn, but it's too soon to start on a settler, I think. It kills to drop your down to pop1. The math says that in five more turns we'll pop another citizen, and the mine will complete, giving us 22 shields in the box. We'd then have two more turns to go, finishing with four shields wasted and a pop drop back down to 1 and another 8 turns before we got back up to pop2. This is not acceptable. I'll take the wastage of two shields and put off building a settler till the next cycle.

Dinkyboat 1 finds some incense away to the east. Dinkyboat 2 launches due west and finds either an island or a peninsula with some goodie huts nested in the mountains.

Turn 18 (3200BC) A cow away to the southeast. Hills and a whale to the west.

Turn 19 (3150BC) Dinkyboat 2 finds more uninhabited hills and grasslands to the west.

Dinkyboat 1 reports some yellow borders, but no little men in sight. Zulus?? :cry: Egyptians? :goodjob: We'll see.

IT A warrior/settler pair show up, likely to plant right on top of the cow. :crazyeye:

Turn 20 (3100BC) Our warrior pops, now putting us at -1 gpt.

Mongols. Dirty, stinkin' mongols.

Little buddy must have been popping a couple of huts, but not made any contacts. He has Pottery, Ceremonial Burial, and Warrior Code, and neither of our two techs. He's also got 35 gold in the bank. He'll trade us CB & Pottery plus 10g for our two techs. I say no thanks. Monkey's first rule of trading is: Never trade with the first civ you meet. Gotta wait till we have a couple of other neighbors to be able to start some swaps with.

Oh, and Little Stinky has only one other city so far, so he's not off to a roaring start either. Even with another on the way, that's no so much. We can take him.

Second warrior heads off east to look for new territory to settle some day. Dinkyboats 1 & 2 continue to explore coastline.

Production starts at last on a settler, though it may still be too soon.
I leave it to the team to figure that one out. In the meantime, here' s a picture of the world as we now know it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/3100BC.jpg

So we have one neighbor so far, still only one city, and no resources in reach. A modest beginning.

For the next better player here's the >>SAVE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/tlm01_3100BC.SAV)

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlm01_2550BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
change settler to another dinky, cintacts are very important here

1.3050BC
spot a red border, but can't see anyone yet

2.3000BC
it's the Babs, since the Mongol have just acquired the unknown tech, we better trade alphabet now
get WC and pottery + 60 gold from Mongols for alpha
get wheel for alpha and 25gold from Babs
Mongols have mysticism, but not the wheel, however do not trade for now

3.2950BC
spot a new border, send out our new dinky

4.2900BC
no contact yet

5.2850BC
meet the French, they have masonry, get that for 2 techs
get mysticism and WC for masonry + 15gold

6.2800BC
zzz

7.2750BC
happy sailing

8.2710BC
zzz

9.2670BC
zzz

10.2630BC
sailed around, popped a hut for barbs

continued to 30turns to even it out, also we got our first settler
next player to decide where to settle

met Greece after finding a new passage
sold the backwards people a tech for 35gold to finance our research

on the last turn sent one dinky for a suicide trip, if we survive, we will meet a new civ
suggest we settle east to contain those Mongols that are expanding like mad

tech wise, we are the current leaders due to nice contacts

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/byz2550.jpg

I send TLM, Blaze Injun and D'Artagnan59 a pm. I'm waiting for an answer.

If they don`t join us, M60A3TTS and/or choxorn do.

I join you.

Nice job, ThERat! In retrospect, I totally agree with your decision to switch from settler to dinkyboat. I also note that so far we haven't spotted any territory with significant growth potential. Not good for us, but not good for them either. It's going to be a slow expansion game it seems. If we can expand up towards those horses, that could give us enough to take Mongolia when the time comes.

I believe that if we place a city 1SW of the barb hut to the north, we won't pop any bad guys. That's not nearly the desirable territory that the east is, but it is where we want to go eventually, and it could at least get us some gold. Make that a secondary objective. For now I'd place our second city 3NE of of Constantinople. That follows CxxC placement, allows nice tile sharing, and keeps the two cities on the same side of the river. First task for City 2 should be a second worker.

Whoever takes the next 10, keep science at 100%! Cash reserves matter not. And keep track of all the other civ's tech progress. We're in a good position to become a powerful trade broker if we play it right.

Can't join... 1.22 patch bug... (shouts a large number of 4-letter words)

I agree with SimplyMonkey for the next city. The third one I'd put directly on the hut. Then another city can be found on the horses within an CxxC-grid.

Blaze Injun wrote me to lurk our game since he has revived an PBEM. But will be a replacement player. TLM hasn't wrote yet.

You can build a city on top of a GH? Or wait, did you mean pop it first? If so, you = crazy. You don't want barbs.

I would build a spear and a bow first ;)

Try 1SW of the hut. You'll border pop the hut and since it's attached to your existing culture borders, you won't spawn any rude boys. As opposed to popping it with a warrior or such. (I'm pretty sure about that, but not 100% positive.)

Don't bother with the spear or bow. Horses are going to be our territory expanders.

Eventually we can place another city northward and then a third somewhere nearby the horsies. But we need a big expansion drive to the river valley's in the east. Stinky Boy is going to going after that prime territory sooner than we'd like. Again, the lack of food bonuses is maddening. :mad: Managable, but maddening.

we need to grab the space in the east and not north. North is away from Mongols anyway and we can always grab that later. If we go north first, we run out of space sooner than we think.

Remember this game ruleset prevents us from declaring, so we better get some cities up properly.

and keep on trading once 3-feers come up. Don't spend too much on monopoly techs, wait for proper opportunities.

I noticed that TLM wasn't at the forum since middle Dec. I think he is out.

New roaster:
1. SimplyMonkey
2. ThERat
3. PaGe
4. D'Artagnan59
5. open
6. ?

preturn:
moving settler towards spot, worker E to road, science back at 100%

turn1:
Curragh survived and get contact to the vikings. They are 3 Techs behind and have no tech for us. The barb-camp in the NE habits 4 warrior.
turn2:
a mongol scout arrived at Constantinople. Will pop the hut I think. Found Adrianople -> Granary. Changed Baracks to spear (2R). Will change back if no barbs appear.
turn3:
Mongols begin Oracle, Mongols and vikings got iron working (I won't trade now and look for a viking-contact).
Spottet an mongol Archer near Adrianople. Keep spear in Constantinople.
Another Curragh got contact with carthage (2 Techs behind, and some money).
turn4:
spear guards Adrianople, worker mines. mongols found 3rd city.
turn5:
Carthage now 1 tech behind and no money. Contact unknown.
mongol archer killed a barb. 2 mongol warrior (vet+reg) spotted.
Several civs now have iron working. Trade with the vikings iron working + 60 gold for cer. burial and wheel (all others have them). We have iron in the north and the far away south. Mongols at their capital. Mongols are technological equal.
turn6:
zzz
turn7:
south curragh tries to reach another continent
turn8:
curragh reaches the continent but spots 2 barb galleys. tries to evade
turn9:
curragh defeats both barbs and is promoted.
turn10:
lux-slider raised, worker and warrior still can be moved.

The mongols have about 1 archer and 3 warrior north of our cities. The hut at Constantinople had been popped by a mongol scout.

D'Artagnan59, you are the next.

2.3000BC
get WC and pottery + 60 gold from Mongols for alpha
get wheel for alpha and 25gold from Babs
Mongols have mysticism, but not the wheel, however do not trade for now

get mysticism and WC for masonry + 15gold


Should have mentioned earlier, but forgot: WC twice? Was the first one CB?


Carthage now 1 tech behind and no money. Contact unknown.


Yah, I liked Pre-C3C when you could know who had contact with who becuase you could trade contact in the AA...

My thought would be to keep expanding east and northeast toward the silks and wheat. And get the iron hooked up with a third city.

The granary in Adri is kind of a waste, as that city just doesn't have the growth potential. I see that Writing is due in the next turnset. D'art, don't forget to go right for Philo. I'd hang on to Writing for a bit just to see what second tier techs we can get for it. If someone else comes up with it though, I'd start trading with their neighbors, but not anyone else. If we have a nice set of second tier techs by the time that Philo rolls around, we can get something mighty tasty for our freebie. Maybe not Republic (the best), but Map Making, Construction, and Currency are all good. (Construction would be my choice.)

We also need to pop a worker soon. 1 per city is the minimum.

I wouldn't worry about the Mongols bum rushing our cities yet, so spears are unnecessary. (Personally, I have a fondness for spears, just because they keep on upgrading for so long. But I recognize that offense is often a better investment.) What we can't put up with is barbs killing off workers or, worse, settlers.

All in all some good turnsets so far. I wouldn't have expected us to be tech leaders quite so soon. :goodjob:

once we et writing, we can establish embassies. That will tell us who knows whom...

as for my trading, there must be an error, obviously we didn't get WC twice :crazyeye:

as for expansion, I would settle towards the incense and try to seal off the north from Mongols that way. We should be able to grab most of the north including horses and iron. Unfortunately the food bonus we have is forgetable...expansion will be slow.

My thought would be to keep expanding east and northeast toward the silks and wheat. And get the iron hooked up with a third city.


Suggestion for the iron: Build city 3 north of Adri. It will get Horses AND Iron as soon as it expands, and it won't be situated next to the volcano.

Interesting thinking Chox, but I would put one city 1SW of the iron so it's on the river, and another directly south of the horse, so it has the coast. (Coastal cities are a seafaring civ's friend.) We won't be doing any culture building till libraries roll around, so counting on expansion to get a resource won't work. ThERat's push towards the incense in the south first could work if the Mongols don't take it from us first. They've been all the way to Constantinople, so they know where all the goodies are. But if we can cut them off that way, then I'd go for it, and settle the wheat and silks after that.

Heading east to pick up the incense if possible, and then up north for the wheat and silks sounds like the plan. The iron city contribuites to that goal. And hey, there may be some coal in those hills too. I haven't seen an Iron Works city near the capital since I was playing Monarch. :lol: (Leader-rushing Secret Police HQ in an IW city doesn't count.) Or if we can manage it in time, how about a city 1N of the incense hill, so it can share the river?

Dude, you can't build cities on volcanoes... ;) Did you mean SE?

The reason, why I build a granary, is that it can bring out a settler every 10 turns and not 20 turns. What should I build else? a temple or baracks? Both won't fasten our expansion. Now Constantinople can grow and bring out some worker and vet. militia.

@ choxorn -- Yeah, SE would make much more sense. :blush:

@ PaGe -- I see your point. As food deprived as we are at the moment, whatever we can do to pump out more settlers is a good thing. The 1gpt maintenance isn't great, though. Suggestions, anyone?

@D'Art --Got it, yes??

D'art has yet to be heard from. We can either go back to the top of the list, or sign a lurker or two to the roster. Opinions, anyone??

I think we should wait for D'Art til the weekend. If he doesn't sign til saturday, SimplyMonkey is on.

Hello. Got it.

Will post turnlog today.

I guess we should just continue now, else this game is dead

Okay. SimplyMonkey is on.

I'll join.

@ choxorn -- Yeah, SE would make much more sense. :blush:

@ PaGe -- I see your point. As food deprived as we are at the moment, whatever we can do to pump out more settlers is a good thing. The 1gpt maintenance isn't great, though. Suggestions, anyone?



Couldn't you use that stand of wheat to the east of Adrianapole? There's plenty of BG near it, surely some kind of Settler pump could be contrived.

@TimBentley: You are welcome. I'll put you into the roaster.

@Bucephalus: The wheat-spot has the problem of a barb-camp, is far away from our capital (high corruption, long way), it wouldn't be enough to settle the whole island.

Okay, since D'Art is AWOL and no-one wants this game to die, I'll get the save and go to work. Likely I'll post an analysis before playing my 10.

And welcome on board, Tim! Guess I should go see what's going on with the demogame someday, huh?

Very sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.

Skip.

New Player?
Just to keep from confusion (mostly, my confusion :lol:):
Roster:
Simple Monkey: UP
ThERat: On Deck
Page: Just Played
D'arty: Skipped
Tim: Welcome Aboard!

I can join this one.

Simple, are you going to play this or not? ;)

Sorry, boys. Got sidelined by getting laser eye surgery on Tuesday. Life without glasses also apparantly means more than just one day to recover, like i foolishly thought. Silly monkey. Anyway, I'm back among the sighted and should have this one played by this evening (Saturday). Once again, sorry for the delays.

@M60A3TTS: You are welcome. The roster is closed then.

Roster:
SimpleMonkey (got it)
ThERat (on deck)
D'Artagnan59
TimBentley
M60A3TTS
PaGe

Would be fine, if the SG now proceed a bit faster.
Rule: 48h got it, 24h play or determine a time, when turns are finished. That's okay?

Indeed. It took me a bit to re-read all the posts here, just to remind myself where we are.

Here's the good news. We are tech kings of this world, tied for first place with Fred the Stinky Mongol. We the richest folks around, having a massive treasury of 100g. Fred (see above) has 92. Many of the other civs are way behind us -- the Greeks don't even have Pottery yet. If anything's going to keep us strong in this game, it's keeping the tech edge. Writing is finally going to come in three turns from now. We likely won't even be able to trade it for a while, as everyone else is behind. A couple of the civs are on islands by themselves -- Babs and the Greeks again -- so their trading is minimal at best.

The bad news. We're sucking wind as far as expansion goes. Mongols have four cites to our two, and Babs have filled their island up already with 7 cities. :eek: I know I've been whining a lot about how slow we don't have any food bonuses :cry: but it is slowing us down in a major way. I don't know that we're going to get a third city up in my turnset, but we'll see.

The goal here, as I see it, is to expand south and east to block off Fred from some nice real estate up in our territory. I figure that we should snag the incense first, then move in on the iron and further east to the wheat and the silks. The horsies up north can wait for a bit.

Here's a quick look-see.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/incense.jpg

The way I see it, the city order should be Pink Dot, Blue Dot, Purple Dot, and then Yellow Dot. Let's see if we can pull it off.

Turn 0 (2150BC) Our worker is done roading and mining, so I send him off to do the same to yet another BG. It's not time yet to start roading out into unknown territory. Our Military Advisor warns that there are thugs about, so we need to keep our guy safe at home.

Our exploring warrior finds more hills and mountains.

The dinkyboat fleet has done what it can do this turn.

No micromanaging to do right now, as we have almost more finished tiles than we do citizens.

Hit Enter.

IT We see the Frenchies kill some thugs, and then see some thugs wipe out (I think) some Vikings. Heh.

Turn 1 (2210BC) Sail around some. I switch the rax build in Con to a granary. Vet troops aren't our best investment right now -- but they will come. GOtta shorten the time between settlers.

IT Babs start to work on the Colossus.

Turn 2 (2070BC) Ahoy there! We have discovered the Chinese! He's rich, but not very smart. I trade him Ceremonial Burial for his entire bank account -- 135g. We are now the wealthiest fools on the planet. Our boats continue their world tour.

IT Nuthin.

Turn 3 (2030BC) Writing comes in, and we're only ones who know it! :banana: Of course, no-one has anything to trade for it. I have to think here. The way the tech race is coming along, we're almost certain to pop Philosophy first. However, we're so beaker-poor right now, I doubt that we could make a detour to snag another tech (like Maths or CoL) and then still make it back for Philo in time. We're also not so hot to trot for Republic this time around, I think, because our ruleset says that once we go to war, it's AW until the other guy is dead. I leave this for the team to ponder. I set research for Philo and MM to get it in 22.

We could spend some of our cash here on embassies, but I hold off.

Babs is now at 8 cites. :mad:

Our exploring axeman finds more incense in the desert south of our mighty empire.

IT The Greeks also start to work on a big brass statue of a naked guy.

Turn 4 (1990BC) Not much.

IT A lone Viking bowman takes his revenge on the barb encampment where his brother died. Sven is up 25g, I guess.

Turn 5 (1950BC) Con's granary comes in, and we're now running at a deficit. We can afford it. I opt to build an archer for cleaning up some bad boys before starting on the settler for our third city.

IT Alex whines that we're playing on his side of the pool. We apologize and sail on.

Turn 6 (1910BC) :sleep:

IT Joan also starts to work on a brass statue of a naked guy. Guess she's feeling a bit lonely.

Turn 7 1870BC Dinkyboat 3 spots another shoreline. I suspect it's a small island off Greece, so I don't try the suicide run.

It appears that my MM skills are off. The mine that the worker just finished building dumped enough sheilds into Adri's granary build that it's just one short of compleating it next turn. Nowhere to get that extra shield. Drat.

IT Nuthin.

Turn 8 (1830BC) Dinky 3 makes landfall on a new shorline, abandoning the journey around Skandanavia for now. No-one in sight yet. MM Adri for gold.

IT Carthage starts on the Pyramids. Greeks start on the Oracle. Fred the Mongol sends an archer and an axeman into our neighborhood, but I don't think he means anything by it.

Turn 9 (1790BC) Adri finishes the granary and starts on another archer. Don't want Fred to get any ideas about us.

IT Not much.

Turn 10 (17050BC) Fred the Mongol now knows Horseback Riding. He'll cough it up, along with 120g, for Writing. This could be a good deal. A few other folks have enough gold to fill our coffers nicely, and it might be a good idea to empty out Fred's bank account. I've left the deal ummade, but the next best player can play out whatever we decide to do.

So a solid set, if not so dramatic. We're still the tech kings, but we're the smallest empire in the world right now. The Babs are up to 10 cities already! France has 8, as does China, and Greece has 7. Fred isn't doing so well, but he does have settler headed in our direction. Can't tell if he wants the incense, the iron, or some other moronic site. (I was right, by the way. He did put a city on top of a cow.) Also, he hasn't connected the iron in the middle of his territory, and I can't tell if he even has any horses to connect.

I've moved our lone worker to the hillside due east of Adri and covered him with the archer. Whether we go for the incense or the iron, we're going to need a road there soon, and our two cities have enough roaded tiles between them for now, I think. In two turns Adri gets another citizen, but Con will pop a settler, so they can swap tiles. Oh, and we have to increase lux, now that Con is up to 4 citizens.

That's my story. No other pics, as not that much has changed -- just a bit more coastlines explored. Here's the >>SAVE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/tlm01_1750BC.SAV) Chox, who's up?

got it, solid turnset!

I will wait with trading writing until we can be sure to get philo alone!

Comments:

Fred the Stinky Mongol.
Does this have any reference to Fred the Flinstone? :crazyeye:

IT The Greeks also start to work on a big brass statue of a naked guy.
IT Joan also starts to work on a brass statue of a naked guy. Guess she's feeling a bit lonely.

Isn't the Collosus Bronze, not Brass? :smug:

No other pics, as not that much has changed -- just a bit more coastlines explored.
What about a minimap so we can see where China is?
Chox, who's up?
Check PaGe's post. It's ThERat, who appears to have just posted a got it. :p

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlm01_1500BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
increase lux to 20% to fight unhappiness in our capital

IT China asks us to move our dingy, sell them alpha instead
one dingy fights off barbs and promotes

1.1750BC
nothing much

IT Mongols want to trade HBR for writing, decline for now

2.1700BC
we get another settler that heads for pink dot
build and embassy with Mongols, they are building the Oracle in the capital

3.1675BC
we lost that vet dingy to another barb attack...
getting a s pear, set 2nd city to settler
Babylon have writing now...time to sell it maybe (we still have 12 turns for philo)
give writing to Mongols for HBR and 50 gold

the additional MP allows me to reduce lux to 0%

4.1650BC
spot a new light blue border in the south
build an embassy with Babs...they got both resources, but no lux building Oracle as well

5.1625BC
found Caesarea which reduces our expenses and research
meet Spain, down writing
lux to 10% since our capital grew

6.1600BC
spear is in, go for settler next

7.1575BC
meet Persia, sell the CB for 50gold
use the cash to build an embassy with China, capital is pop 1

IT Babs demand HBR, we certainly don't want a war with such a close neighbor even though they don't have map

making yet, give it to them

8.1550BC
get a new settler heading for purple dot

IT wonder cascade starts, as if we bother, but a barb horse appears near Caesarea...

9.1525BC
one of our dingy's sent for suicide mission as it ended on a lone archi

10.1500BC
our suicide galley meets Aztecs, pretty backward
sell them alpha for all their 210gold (we now have 421g) could use some for embassies, next player please

horse next to Caesarea, we have a warrior there
our capital will get a settler next turn
and the settler will reach purple next turn as well

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1500.jpg

Good set! I see that we only got half the gold for Writing after Babs learned it, so ThERat was right on to start cashing in. We've definitely got enough cash for embassies. We might also want to think about keeping an eye out for worker trades. Some of the more backward folks could still cough up a slave or two for techs. Our one guy needs help now that we'll soon have 4 cities. Next player may want to see about popping another worker before a settler.

The large number of civs you can't see much of is geting pretty :crazyeye: So are the mentioned spots in this screenie where they are (forgive bad quality, I zoomed it in a lot)?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Huge_Minimap.JPG
This map will look much more clear when you get navigation and WM trading...

Well done, ThERat. The change with the Mongols was good. Before we get nothing we preferably take horseback riding to hold our tech-lead. :) . But sad, that the Babs blackmailed us. They will come earlier on our island than we want. After the blue dot we should secure the horses.
The Aztecs are funny. That much backward, that they give us 200 gold for alpha :lol: .

If we get the bonus-tech with philosophy we should take polytheism to head for monarchy, which is definitely our gov.

And thanks to chox for the minimap.

Roster:
SimpleMonkey
ThERat
D'Artagnan59 (is on)
TimBentley (on deck)
M60A3TTS
PaGe

Would be fine, if the SG now proceed a bit faster.
Rule: 48h got it, 24h play or determine a time, when turns are finished. That's okay?

Usually, it's 24 hr got it, and 48 hr play/determine time... :p

No, it's 48 hr. got it, 72 hr. play time.

Do that again and I'm throwing you in prison.

No, it's 48 hr. got it, 72 hr. play time.

Do that again and I'm throwing you in prison.

That's real funny D'Artagnan59 :lol:

But it's not a "got it" either, and your 48 hours are up.

Tim, that puts you up.

Do that again and I'm throwing you in prison.

Do THAT again and I'm throwing you in prison! :lol:

I probably won't be able to play before Friday, so someone else can go before me.

OK, I got it then.

Play friendly, children.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM1_1250_BC.SAV

Preturn: No one has CoL so a Philo jump to get to Republic isn’t in the cards just yet. We’ll see if the next couple turns change anything. No barracks anywhere which is ok, but we want some to crank some vet warriors that can be upgraded once we connect the iron.

IBT- The barb horse moves to the west.

Turn 1 (1475BC) Persia picked up MM. It’s a monopoly tech that we could get for HBR, myst and 370 gold but that would be too much. Start rax in Constantinople. Reduce lux to zero. Sell Ragnar Masonry for 86 gold.

IBT- Quiet. Barb horse takes another step west.

Turn 2 (1450BC) Nicea founded. Start a worker there.

IBT- Dinkyboat 2 fends off two barb galleys and promotes. Karakorum finishes Oracle.

Turn 3 (1425BC) Move the Dinkyboats.

IBT- Dinkyboat 4 fends off a barb galley.

Turn 4 (1400BC) Philo in. I spent some time deliberating this one. Taking Poly to get to Monarchy may be a good strategy for an AW game but the intent of this game as I understand it is to get to the modern age without being at war against all the AI civs. So I think the only way to do that is be the good trading partner for a while. And to be that good partner we need techs and cash which is more of what Republic provides. So I took CoL and start a min science run on Republic.

Once we have Republic, if the team wants to still pursue Monarchy, I’m sure a straight trade or close to it would not be difficult. My concern is staying at Monarchy compels us to get the AIs at war too in order to slow the tech rate down. Then the whole nuke thing becomes something of an irrelevant requirement. So anyway, moving on…

IBT- China and France start ToA. So they have Poly, and it was now clearly the right move in taking CoL as the free tech.

Turn 5 (1375BC) Let’s make a deal. France gives us Poly and 84 gold for writing. She’s polite. Varna founded next to iron. Xerxes needs mysticism before we could trade poly to him as part of a deal for MM, so no deal yet.

IBT- Dinkyboat 3 is attacked and sinks barb galley.

Turn 6 (1350BC) Meet the Dutch with Dinkyboat 4. Up MM, down Philo, CoL, CB (heathens!) and HBR. Dinkyboat 2 hails Montezuma. Down CB, writing, HBR. Pretty far down the food chain he appears. Back over to William, we take MM and 80 gold, he gets Philo and CB. Build a temple to yourself, laddie. He’s cautious.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 7 (1325BC) Nothing to report. Have another settler out of Constantinople.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 8 (1300BC) Greece and Spain picked up Math. Izzy needs MM, but she’s not getting that. Alex can probably be bought for less. We get it plus his 44 gold for writing and HBR. Yes, it’s the best you can do, trust me. :D

IBT- ZZZZZ

Turn 9 (1275BC) Dinkyboats continue on. No new contacts.

IBT- Dinkyboat 2 tangles with another barb galley. 2hp left but staying afloat.

Turn 10 (1250AD) Build Smyrna north of Constantinople. Up to 6 towns. Republic in 44. Construction and currency are needed to get to the MA and our first free tech. And done.

Post turn: I’d guess the Mongols could crush us at the drop of a hat. We still have only one worker with another one coming due in 2. We certainly need a couple more. We have a lot of cash and know stuff our "friends" would like to know, so be careful when the demands come.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM1_1250BC.JPG

Roster:

M60A3TTS (Just Played)
PaGe (Up)
TimBentley (Needs something between a skip and a swap, so we'll call it a slip and tentatively on deck)
SimpleMonkey
ThERat
D'Artagnan59

nice set of turns :goodjob:

nice trading here. We really have to be careful and not deny demands too easily. Even a phony war can turn ugly if the AI's gang up...so do not simply deny demands...It's often better to sell techs for some cash instead of getting it demanded away.

I would try and settle all the way east, then we can work on improving our land. Might want to creep a little south later on

Good work M60A3TTS.
Next settling goals will be the silk and the horse. Is the barb camp still in the north east?
I will also build some vet warrior for upgrade.

I got it and will play this evening.

@ PaGe: The Mongols were up there with several units so I suspect they removed the camp. But I can't confirm that.

We will likely still end up in Monarchy, as the ruleset here requires that we fight to the death with any civ that declares on us, but I agree that Republic has a lot more trading power. And trading is what's keeping us alive here. I suggest cranking research back up to max and investing in archers until we get horsies hooked up. Upgrades are pricey for us right now. EDIT: I now see that we have some tidy cash reserves. Yeah, a bunch a warrior upgrades are possible after all. And we have 6 cities. :banana:

Pre-turn:
changed Smyrna from spear to warrior, then worker (at pop2)
I had a look at research at max and the turn til republic doesn't change. And with all the settlers and workers to build I see no chance to decrease it. => science still at 10%

IBT:nothing special

[B)turn1:[/B]
the dinkeys explore
Mystcism for 82 gold to scandinavia
established embassy in Spain. They are now cautious (most advanced Civ beside the Greece). Would be too annoying if the supress a tech.

IBT:nothing special, spearman (-> settler) and worker (-> worker) build.

turn2:
spear towards barb-horse

IBT: nothing

turn3:
spear fortifies

IBT
forest roaded, horse killed by spear

turn4:
spear comes back

IBT: zzz

turn5: nothing special

IBT: zzz

turn5:
established embassy at Persepolis, settler starts to the horses

IBT: a babylonian galley starts towards the horses, s barb galley fails against this galley. Sad, but true.

turn6.
warrior, spear and settler towards the horse.

IBT:
babylonian galley unloads settler & warrior
warrior and worker build

turn7:
again heading for the horse.

IBT:
Babs found Shuruppak at the horse :(
warrior build,

turn8:
worker starts roading the incense

IBT: nothing special

turn9:zzz

IBT:spear and worker build

turn10:
worker in the north starts a road,
the settler in the north still can move. We have to decide where to found the city. I prefer the blue one. It's costal and not on a bonus grasland.

Some trades are possible: writing to China, maths to mongols, cerem. burial to aztecs
Mongol and Babylonian still don't know each other.

edit:
D'Art or TimBentley you are on. The first who gives a "got it", has it.

Who owns that city waaayyyyy down in the SW?

The Dutch town of Delft.

We may need to talk settler strategy. I think the one that got beat to the horse shouldn't travel too far to settle. Varna perhaps should switch from rax to settler and claim the silks. The two settlers in queue could go south to fill out our core. We will have more Bab landings soon to be sure.

settling on blue dot will make them angry and will sooner or later get a war, which I don't mind really...the rest can taste our nukes later anyway.

I would not dismiss all the money that is out there to sell our techs...maths to Mongols etc...

I'm not sure I'd sell the Mongols the time of day. They're the ones we need to kill first. Math maybe since they won't use it to build much arty. HBR to Mao for 157 gold is a no-brainer. That's a premium for the tech. But the vet warriors should be prioritized in the near future. Cash for upgrades won't help without the base units.

Who owns that city waaayyyyy down in the SW? Actually nobody really bothers about that currently...

I agree we should not give the Mongols too much, but I guess they will acquire lower techs anyway in the near future, might as well sell them before they demand it away.

My thought would be to sell Philo around, as there are a number of folks out there with cash that we could use. We need to hook that iron up fast and spend what we have on upgrades.

Give in to demands, I would say. It's just going to be annoying to be at war forever with some fool on the other side of the world. And if we have too much money on hand, they're going to come calling.

By the way, it makes me insane angry when I get beat out by one turn by another civ's settler. May Hammy taste the fury of the dromon war machine. :hammer: I would avoid settling right next door, though, but somewhere nearby to block off the coast. The other settlers in que would make it to the eastern silks (lavender dot) before the lost horse settler would.

We need to hook that iron up fast and spend what we have on upgrades.

Let's clarify that what we need is at least 15 vet warriors. Until that time or the Mongols hit us from behind, the iron has little value.

The Babylonian are really a problem. But it was clear that they will come, because they have no space on their island. The biggest problem was, that we have to less worker to road the way to our settling spots. That have been the 3 turns they beat us.

If we don't settle at the horse, we hardly will get on. The russians are the only one, who has an extra horse and seems to have no iron. That will be a potential trade.
The Babylonian have 2 horses (+"our horse"), but that will be expensive, I think. The mongol doesn´t have a horse yet. So a war against them wouldn´t bring us one.

Changing the rax to a settler is an good option to grap the silks.

If Istanbul and Adrianople starts the warrior production after the settlers, the 15 vet. warriors are build fast.

Trading indeed has the problem that we then have really a lot of money. And til the contacts between the civs aren´t developed they can accumulate more. The mongols for example still have no contact. There is no need to trade now with them. Let them save more money. We only have to hit the point, at which we can sell them a tech before they researched it themselves.

Don't worry about horses right now. That's not important until chivalry. As long as the iron holds out, we're fine.

No word from D'Art or Tim yet. :( If neither of them takes it today (Friday), I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon.

I wasn't quite thinking earlier when I said we had to get that iron hooked up. AFTER we pop out those 15 warrior, THEN we hook up the iron. As long as we have the cash, we might as well spend it on something good. :hammer:

Then we just have to wait for Fred to jump. I figure we can count on him for that.

The other advantage to coastal cities is that we can start building our dromon fleet. That's what's going to make Hammy cry, I think. Actually, if we do get into an AW situation, a hefty fleet of dromons will eventually discourage anyone from trying a sea invasion at all. They'll stay put on their own tiny islands.

I won't have time today, so I'll go after SimpleMonkey.

Deal. I treat this as a swap with Tim and play tomorrow.

And I know that D'arty is busy in RL right now from other threads.

And we're off!

Preflight Look to see what our trade opportunities are. Fred will empty the Mongol treasurehouse for us (292g) if we sell him Philo, Hannibal will cough up 175g for the same, Hammy is good for 80g, China will also empty the treasure house if we sell him Writing to the tune of 157g, and so on down the line. My only worry is that if we stay so rich without the muscle to back it up, we're going to start seeing demands. Rude savages.

We now know everyone we are going to know. Still some map left to explore, but I think we've met everybody.

Lots of folks have iron and horses hooked up already. This is also not good. Nice to know that the AI is terrible at sea invasions. And it's also good that our dromon can sweep the seas clean for this era and much of the next. Fred is our only real immediate concern.

BTW, I'm still snarly about Hammy stealing our horses.

Theodora is still the smartest girl at the party.

Turn 0 (950BC) Crank research up to 90%. It shows no gain in turns on researching Republic, but that will change as we plant a few more cities.

I shop around Philosophy, emptying the world's treasure houses and destroying everyone's college fund. Everybody is willing to hand over every penny except for Xerxes, for some reason. He stubbornly hangs on to 3g. Next gain is 946g. I spend a goodly sum building embassies, and learn the following.

Joan has 3 cows and 1 wheat outside Paris, horses and iron, and the Pyramids. Paris will be a lovely town for us to set up a vacation house in someday. Paris is also garrisoned with 25 assorted troops, including vet swords and some chariots.

Alex also has horses and iron, but not quite the set-up that Joan does. 8 hoplites guard Athens. He also has a settler sitting there, so he's definitely run out of room.

Hannibal only has horses so far, and only 3 Numidian troublemakers in Carthage. He's working on the Great Lighthouse.

Monty is not worth worrying about. Tenochtitlan is a pop1 slum. guarded by 4 spears. He has neither horses nor iron.

The Vikings are in even worse shape -- Trondheim is at pop2 waiting to grow enough to cough out another settler. Three spears. No iron or horsies.

Amsterdam has the naked bronze guy which has only helped produce more cash for Willliam to hand over to us. Horses, iron, and 4 spears. Hannibal is totally going to beat him the the GL.

Everyone else we already have embassies with. Our bank account still stands at 1542g. We are bronze age Bill Gates.

No ROP or other agreements with anyone.

Send our frustrated settler east towards the silks. Unless a Mongol settler magically appears out of the fog, I can't see how he can beat us to it. Other Byz settlers to follow.

Send a worker back to Varna to bring water to the Nicean wheat.

No other moves left. The builds look good.

Hit enter.

IT The Babs send another ship our way, almost certainly headed for our silks. This will not do. William starts on the precious wonder, the Mausoleum, as do the Aztecs, Mongols, and French. Izzy starts on the GL (good luck). Hammy goes for the ToA and the Mausoleum both. Hey, if that's what they want to spend their time building.

Turn 1 (925BC) Our dinkyboats sail around some. Set workers to build roads.

IT Xerxes also decides to invest in the Mausoleum. Hannibal and Sven, too. We should be seeing a lot of very expensive temples in the not so distant future.

Also, it looks like our borders with Mongolia are now more or less in place. Fred plunks a town 5SW of our incense city.

Turn 2 (900BC) Keep moving our settler east. Gotta beat those lousy Babs. Some more sailing and coastline revealed.

IT Incense is now hooked up! :banana: China asks our wounded dinkyboat to keep on moving. Greeks join the MoM and ToA party. Joan wants the GL.

Turn 3 (875BC) Turn the beer taps off. We're now researching at 100%. Our turns for Republic should drop some more once we get some more towns built.

Con finishes its settler, and I start in on a warrior. He will be a glorious swordsman someday.

Send the settler up north to build a coastal city near our stolen horses.

Dinkyboat 3 makes a suicide run for another isolated coast along the Persian continent. There's still a lot of unknown territory that way.

Caesarea starts work on rax.

IT Is that a second Bab galley heading toward our shores? :mad:

Xerxes starts on the GL. See above comment on expensive temples.

Turn 4 (850BC) Workers irrigate and build mines. I notice that the Vikings have built a town in the tundra peninsula at the far northeast of our continent. Dinkyboat 3 survives the ocean crossing and gets to work mapping out northern Persia.

IT Dinkyboat 3 just barely survives a barb galley ambush. Oh, and William just beat us to Republic. :hammer2: The only thing I can think of is that a barb hut gave it to him. Crap and double crap. We still have 27 turns to go before we get it. I'm hoping that we'll still have ignorant neighbors to get some trade value. I don't see the point in throwing away the beakers and starting something else.

A Viking galley shows up right next to our silks. Oh no you don't. I'm gonna have to set down in place to discourage this foul maneuver. It's not our dot-map choice, but it is a coastal city that'll be CxxC with Nicea. Here's where we're setting up shop.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/Silk_City.jpg

Turn 5 (825BC) Build Heraclea in place to thwart a Viking settler landing. Sven may have nobody on board, but I have no wish to gamble. Set a handy worker over to chop for a rax and then hook up the silks.

And a barb camp with horses just appeared at the bottle neck with the northeast peninsula. Send a spear over to block the drunk barb raiders.

We have a settler now in Adri, and I'm puzzled as to where to send him.
Finally decide to send our guy with a spearman down the west coast. There's more desert than I'd like down there, but the coast is nice for building a navy, and it'll be good land once we irrigate from that lake.

IT A helpful Mongal warrior kills the barb horse and disperses the camp. Huh. The Netherlands are now a Republic. Can't beat one turn anarchy, can you?

Turn 6 (800BC) More of the above. Fred has his iron hooked up.

IT Xerxes grumbles about our dinkyboat, and decides to start on SoZ. Hmm, Ancient Cavs and Immortals. Good thing he's our friend.

Fred sends a small contingent towards Caesarea, but I don't think he means anything by it. I hope.

Turn 7 (775BC) Much the same. Buy a slave from Hammy, since we're not hurting for cash and we can always use more brute labor.

IT And of course Hammy decides that 120g is not enough for him, and he demands that we fork over an additional 88g. I knew that a fat bank account was going to be tempting. We comply. For now.

Turn 8 (750BC) Again, some worker moves and getting two more settlers in place. Fred has set up a town right by the southern incense and the lake. Oh well. This continent is almost filled up.

Micromanage for cash and growth. Warriors are our primary build right now.

The other guys are getting in touch with each other, I think, cutting into our trade monopoly. I was thinking I could sell another tech to Hammy and get our money back, but he's now at tech parity with us. I check around the wheel, and so far most everyone is still behind. Xerxes is only behind by Polytheism. William has the Republic but not Myst, Math, or HB. (Now I'm sure he got Rebublic from a bunch of chicken-killing, dirt-scratching, inbred barbarians. He won't sell, but it looks like he hasn't sold to anyone else either.

IT Well, this should be interesting. Hammy just decided to invade ... France! Let's see how he does.

Aztecs, who still don't have CB, start to work on the GL. See above about expensive temples.

Turn 9 (730BC) We build Trebizond south of Con, and Chalcedon to the north. Both coastal cities, which we like. They both have spear garrisons, so I start them to work right away on harbors.

I don't see any French cities turning from pink to red yet. :lol:

IT Izzy may have just switched from GL to MoM, or she's hoping for two wonders.

China, of all people, gets Monarchy. :confused: This requires some investigation.

Turn 10 (710BC) Start some pretty obvious worker tasks. Mao will not trade us Monarchy for Math, Philo, CoL, MM, and HB all combined. Greedy swine. We'll have to wait for the price to go down.

How did all these barbarian tribes get so smart??

And that's it. In sum, we still have hefty cash reserves, even running at a research deficit. (I swear, it really will pay off in the end.) The other guys are starting to build their bank accounts back up. We're currently at 12 warriors with two more ready to pop next turn. A worker is slowly making his way to Iron Hill to hook us up in a bit for the big upgrade. With Fred having iron for plenty of swords as well, we may want to start investing in catapults. Like, a lot.

We hit some bad luck with those PhD barbarians. :mad:

We are also up three more cities, with not that much more room to grow. :sad:

I also seem to be retarded as far as keeping track of turns go, because I'm finishing out at 710BC. The next player might want to even the turns out.

Here's a pic of our empire, wide screen to give a better idea of our territory. We should have a discussion about where, if anywhere, to settle next.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/710BC.jpg

And here's the >>SAVE<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42605/tlm01_710BC.SAV)

IT Is that a second Bab galley heading toward our shores? :mad:

Death to the Babylonians! :mad:


Xerxes starts on the GL. See above comment on expensive temples.

Or maybe it will be Libraries or Catapults... :mischief:


Huh. The Netherlands are now a Republic. Can't beat one turn anarchy, can you?

WTF??? They aren't Religious! Cheaters! :gripe:


Aztecs, who still don't have CB, start to work on the GL. See above about expensive temples.

How can he build expensive temples without CB? :p


How did all these barbarian tribes get so smart??
...
We hit some bad luck with those PhD barbarians. :mad:

Someone from the far future must have built a time machine and came back in time to share these secrets with the barbs, who in turn are sharing these secrets with any civ that meets them. :mad:

Got it. I should play tomorrow (edit: delay that a day).

In sum, we still have hefty cash reserves, even running at a research deficit. (I swear, it really will pay off in the end.) ]

I have serious reservations that it will. We need this cash for upgrades to swords and later MI, not saving a turn or two to get Republic. :( When I started the research, no one was even close to tech parity. By the time the 50 turns will elapse, not that many civs will have it which is a factor in decreasing cost. The other factor which cuts the research turns is city growth which we already know is limited due to terrain. We want to be careful about applying these concepts without giving consideration to what is the overall strategy and situation. One size doesn't always fit all.

I agree with M60A3TTS in this case. The cost for republic is so high, that we should do that via min research. With the few cities we have, we aren't going to speed that up by a lot. The cash however could get us a lot of stuff.
Even if the AI demands some away.

Yes, as soon as you are in Republic, you can cash rush a huge army and upgrade those warriors to swords.

I also to M60A3TTS. We have done 20 turns on min. research, have only very little and few towns. Every worker and settler throwed the research back and will if we continue to settle at the last places.
And remember: An upgrade of a warrior costs us 60 gold. So about 1000 gold will the upgrading of our vet warriors cost. We have not that much money to much.

A "good" Info is that the mongols have horses now. So their might be one for our later game.

The first enemy should be the mongol, so we slowly should make him angry. Settling on the orange dot should be a beginning.

Using the Dromon has the bad thing to trigger our golden age. We are not yet in the position top use it. At the end of the war against the mongol it should be a good time.


And a dotmap with potential settling points for discussion.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/dotmap.jpg

edit:
@choxorn: I don`t think the republic is a choice for us. Even the extra commerce won´t be able to compensate the WW. Trading for monarchy is our goal. We must hope, that the AI has researched construction and currency to trade and sending us into the middle ages.

Keeping on pushing for Republic makes sense. If played right, it should be enough to shoot us into the next age, and if we do some canny trades with the other scientific civs, we may even be able to score a second tier tech for our freebie.

Agree now in retrospect that the minimum run on research should have been enough. I'm so used to cranking up the beakers to get ahead that I didn't account for our poor commerce and city count. Anyway, we still have plenty of cash on hand for the upgrades, and are still in a position to trade for more.

One note -- we're limited in our methods of starting war with anyone. I suppose that aggressive settling is somewhere in the grey zone of what's allowed. Good thing that we can count on Fred to feel like fighting sooner or later.

Agree with not launching the hell-fire boats until we're safely in Monarchy. That doesn't mean we can't build them, though. :devil:

Then forget what I said, but it won't make much of a difference has you can cash rush in Monarchy too if you have enough excess cash. :p

710(0): Okay, China and Netherlands are backwards but are up a government tech :crazyeye:
contacts: Persia: Carthage, Netherlands, Spain
China: Spain
Spain: China, Persia, Carthage, Greece
Vikings: Babylon, Mongols
Netherlands: Persia
Babylon: Vikings, France(war)
Carthage: Spain, Greece
Aztecs: none
Greece: Spain, Carthage, France
Mongols: Vikings
France: Babylon (war), Greece
and yes, we have embassies with everyone
current deals: republic for math, HBR, poly, 880g
monarchy for math, philo, CoL, MM, HBR, 664g
I think I'll wait for at least one to become nonmonopoly (Persia buying republic? a new contact by someone?); currency and construction also still not known, I guess Babylon or France will go for that
min research is too long, so 0% or 100% research?
research would cost less than buying since it costs >4/3 research cost
republic I guess costs maybe 3500g, 1750 after nonmonopoly, so paying cash may not be necessary
on the other hand if Persia gets republic they may sell math and HBR for it, so I'll go with 100%
monarchy I guess would be slightly less

get an extra shield in Varna, an extra gold in Heraclea

IBT: Paris builds MoM
Constantinople warrior->worker
Adrianople warrior->warrior

690(1): zzz

IBT: China demands philosophy, Spain has it anyways; give in
Spain starts ToA
Aztecs, Greeks, Mongols start Great Lighthouse
China starts Hanging Gardens
Persia starts SoZ, ToA
Smyrna harbor->rax
Varna rax->warrior

670(2): finally figured out why it wasn't asking for builds, why was manage production on?
some trade routes are available

IBT: Constantinople worker->warrior
Adrianople warrior->worker

650(3): France learns monarchy
buy monarchy from China for math, CoL, MM, 206g
revolt, get 5 turns

IBT: Greece demands CoL, I give in

630(4): zzz

IBT: France starts Hanging Gardens

610(5): zzz

590(6): zzz

IBT: Mongols declare war on Vikings
China starts Great Lighthouse
Orleans builds ToA

570(7): sell CoL to Vikings for worker, 131g

IBT: become a monarchy
Spain starts Great Lighthouse
China starts Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse

550(8): apparently Greece learned construction and traded it to France for monarchy; both are well known
I'll stop here, since it's turn 100
I would sell monarchy to Carthage for construction, 152g (they wouldn't throw in horses, so it's a good price)

Notes: Babylon would pay 336g and 23gpt for monarchy, but wouldn't throw in horses
I haven't significantly micromanaged, so go ahead and do so
Netherlands might trade republic for just monarchy; I'm wondering if they might trade it to Spain for construction and polytheism (on that note, I'm thinking saving money would be better than research now) (edit: I don't think they know Spain)

Well done, TimBentley. We are in Monarchy now :thumbsup: .

I agree with you about the deals with Carthage and the Babylonian. France has Monarchy and could sell it to the Babylonian else. Add a ROP to the Deal with the Babylonian to be sure that they don´t attack us. And then prepare the war with Mongols. They are annoyed now.
We have 12 vet. Warrior already. Perhaps we should abandon some of our dinkeys since we have to pay for them now.

Roster:
ThERaT (is on)
M60A3TTS (on deck)
PaGe
SimplyMonkey
TimBentley

D'Art please tell us, when you have time. We will space you in then.

I got a bit lost. Looks like Tim had a good turnset -- he pulled off a government change waaayyy before I thought we'd get one. :banana: But are we still researching Republic, or have we bailed out of that project to start on something else? It pains me to think of throwing out the shields. If we can get Republic on our own, the others may still be backward enough that we can do a round robin of trades to get us into the next age.

One good thing about the map filling up is that the PhD barb pressence is going to go way down.

An ROP with Babylon will not do much to deter them from attacking if the AI's turn-by-turn decision-making puts them on the warpath. It often just means that we can't order them off our island if they land troops. Having annoyed Mongols next door, on the other hand ...

And I wouldn't disband the dinkyboats. As soon as they make their way back home, they will get a new paint job and some hell-fire cannons.

looking good. I will look at the world and check how knows whom...then trade. The Mongol war is a blessing...but we can't declare war ourselves.

By the way, I think getting a war through 'demand you leave the territory' is a bit explotative in this game, suggest we do not do that. However, if the Mongols come and demand stuff, I would declare...

Got it, play tonight

I don't think we can use the Leave or Die option to get someone to declare, but I would think that refusing a demand would be allowed. Let them be the ones to ring the alarm bell.

Fred is likely just going to use the war with Sven to destroy the Viking village on the NE tundra peninsula. I can't imagine that he'll be able to mount much of a sea invasion. But the war with Sven might at least convince him to ship a bunch of troops off to die overseas. That's not a bad thing for us.

We still research on Republic. No beakers lost.

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlm01_350BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
get construction and 152 from Carthage for monarchy
sell monarchy to Babs for all his gold (300+) and 23gpt

Why are we researching republic on max when we clearly can get the same timing with min research???
employ a single scientist and we make 52gpt

1.530BC
trying to slowly get back our dingies

2.510BC
Persia finished SoZ
we add 2 more warriors to our stock

IT hmm, Persia demands construction, think for a while but give in

3.490BC
zzz

4.470BC
Babs are rich, sell them construction for 125gold and 30gpt

5.450BC
we produce another settler

6.430BC
zzz

7.410BC
add another settler

IT Carthage finishes the Great Lighthouse and France th Great Wall

8.390BC
zzz

IT backwards Aztecs demand polytheism, ok, I will give in again

9.370BC
our trading position is getting worse as 4 AI's know republic already and we got nothing to offer to them
found 2 new cities

IT that was clear, Dutch demand 100gold, give in yet again

10.350BC
we have already 22 warriors that can be upgraded. I wanted to build markets, but nobody has currency yet, neither does anyone have literature
we will get republic in 4, have 2380gold and make 83gpt

I started a dromon and cats, we should settle some more spots and hope for an arrogant demand by Mongols. I feel we should soon hook up the iron and upgrade our warriors

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlm350.jpg

OK, I got it. PaGe on deck.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM_150_BC.SAV

330BC- Curragh movement

310BC- Quiet

290BC- More quiet. Start working to connect the iron.

270BC- Dutch have literature and start TGL. Republic in. Start currency at max. Due in 12.

250BC- Quiet

230BC- Iron hooked up. Upgrade 16 vet warriors

210BC- Quiet. 4 civs now with lit. France building TGL.

190BC- Upgrade a curragh to dromon.

170BC- China is first to currency.

150BC- Trade Spain Republic for currency, literature and 10 gold. Bummer, we got mono as our freebie. Caesarea is starving but has food for a few turns. Start temple there. Next up can decide to rush it in a few turns if you want.

Post turn: No other civs have a middle age tech, so we’re back to being tech leader again. We're not so toothless anymore, so giving into any demand is not necessary.

Post turn: No other civs have a middle age tech, so we’re back to being tech leader again. We're not so toothless anymore, so giving into any demand is not necessary.I agree with this, we should now be much bolder...if only the Mongols would declare. Maybe we try and get chivalry + acquire horses and build up a force of knights.

Again, going for Chivalry is not the path of wisdom usually, but it could work here. On the other hand, feudalism is a hot tradable tech in itself (though I'd put an American dollar down to bet that that's what Babs pops as his freebie), and MedInf hit pretty hard without us having to humble ourselves for horses (or spend so much more time building them). A second mass upgrade to macemen could be quite useful. Or we could work our way across the top half of the tech tree to snag the less popular/more tradable techs and bargain our way along the bottom.

If we've got Lit, our culture builds should be our half-price libraries. We love libraries.

My thought would be to build up enough of a hell-fire boat fleet to take a bite out of Babs next time he barks.

Oh, and it looks like PaGe is up and I'm in the batter's cage.

My thought would be to build up enough of a hell-fire boat fleet to take a bite out of Babs next time he barks.

Our priority for unit builds needs to be focused on the Mongols. Once our only threat is removed from our lands, we can concern ourselves with overseas campaigns.

I think that this might be the longest I've ever seen Fred go without declaring war on somebody. :confused: Why's Babylon the tough guy in this one? Anyway, I hate to see 16 swords sitting around on their shields.

Are we in agreement to start turning down demands, at least from nearby folks that we could actually reach in less than 20 turns at sea?

I just had a look at the game:

First thing: We have over 1700 gold :crazyeye: .
Heraclea musst be changed cause the forest gets chopped next turn. A courthouse will be good.
I change Caesarea to a worker til the surrounding area needs some improvements. Why the cat stands unguarded outside Caesarea?
Constantinople should space a lib in. Can be done in 3.
Does the aqueduct in Nivaea make sence at this point? I think it will keep beneath 7, because of unhappiness (at size 4 there are 2 happy and 2 unhappy). I would change it to a courthouse or temple.

The Babs lack currency to the next era, hope they get engineering als freebie. But I think we won´t have that much luck. We get Feudalism in 20 turns.

The policy we should follow is difficult.
The Babs seem to be to big for us.
A war with a far away enemy will give us war-happiness but this would be a war we can't really fight.
A war with scandinavia should be an option since they cannot reach us without risk and have an own island to conquer. Then we have to go for astronomy as fast as possible to invade. Unfortunately this would make the mongols happier and the war wih them will move far away.
War with mongols is the goal, so every demand must be refused.

What do you think about telling the mongols to withdraw. They have a galley in our territory. That`s within the rules, isn´t it?

I´ll wait some hours for comment before start playing.

What do you think about telling the mongols to withdraw. They have a galley in our territory. That`s within the rules, isn´t it?a bit too corny I'd say and we discussed this already...we should wait for them to come and declare

Preturn:
changes mentioned above.
Don't advice the mongols to withdraw.
And another comment. Sardica was found on the bonus grasland. That's in a 3xx3 grid, but a lost shield. :(

IBT:nothing special

turn1: found Dyrrachium

IBT: Babs send a settler to the open space in the north. A settlement from us would have been better.

turn2: connect the 2nd incense. Could trade to the carthagian for 68 gold + 6 gpt, but decided to wait for a trade with the Babs in 2 turns (then their 30 gpt-Deal expires).

IBT: Mongols and Scandinavia signed a peace treaty. Our war comes near.
The Bab settler moves further north, not in the free space. Perhaps because I've moved the silk-spear to open the passage. I will build a settler to fill the space at the Bab-city.
Const. builds lib.. After that an temple. It get's 15 shields then (-> sword or dromon in 2R)

turn3:
Transfer several sowrds to Dyrrachium. The mongol has several units near (4 swords, 2 spears, 1 archer).

IBT: zzz

turn4:
The babs don't wanna give us something for our silks or incense. :(
The carthage get silks for 128 gold + 3 gpt. The incense is kept for a present to the babs while we have war with mongols.
We are now runing at -44 gpt

IBT China has Feudalism. We have it in 14.

turn5:zzz

IBT: Greece has engineering. Montheism only known by Persia. Babs still in the ancient era.

turn6: Settler towards north.

IBT: Persia and Greece have traded techs. With us they didn't wanted to trade.

turn7:Spear back to blockade the silk-bridge. Our Settler near settling spot.

IBT: Const. build temple. Now swords every 2.

turn8:zzz

IBT: chinese start Sun Tzu

turn9: Septum found,

IBT:Dutch also start ST

turn10: dinky II back home. The 2 Dromons are heading to the other side of our island.

Our army compared to:
spain = strong
netherland = average
aztec = weak
china = average
Persia = weak
carthage = average
greece = average
mongols = weak
Babylon = weak
France = weak
Scandinavia = average (and they are still in Despotism :rolleyes:)

Militia:
18 sowrds,
12 spears
11 cats
5 Dromons
(+ some old units)

SimpleyMonkey is on, TimBentley on deck.

Will pick this one up this weekend. We've got some serious strategy to work out over at Rage Against the Machine, and I'm up there too. Feast time!

There are a couple of Persian cities way down south on an island occipied by Spain. How the heck did they get there? :confused:

How's it going SimpleMonkey?

The turns at Rage took longer than I thought, and I'm stuck with RL issues for today and probably much of tomorrow. I should swap with Tim so things don't get held up any longer than they have been.

Got it. I should play tonight.

I wasn't able to play yesterday, and will be out until Sunday, so skip me.

SimplyMonkey, can you play?
ThERaT (on deck)
M60A3TTS (on deck 2)

I`ll need a skip til Sunday.

If the DVD that my wife rented isn't a freakin' 3 hour epic, I could take this out for a spin tonight. I'll let you all know if I need to pass in a couple of hours.

The Departed -- great movie, but 2 1/2 hours long. I'm going to bed. Won't be able to hit these turns till Saturday, so someone else is welcome to take the helm if he can get to it first.

I can take it tonight...then you can play on saturday

Confusion hath made this SG's roster. I would like it posted again to undo this confusion.

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlm01_250AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we can get feudalism for mono and 500+ gold...we self research at -50gpt
get it from China for that amount
get engineering from Greece for feudalism
get our cash back from China for engineering
set research to theology we should have some headway there

1.70AD
zzz

2.90AD
nth much

3.110AD

IT all of a sudden we get an interesting twist here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc130.jpg

4.130AD
ask French to leave territory as I don't need a bad sneak attack
they declare war....
it's AW with them until hey are out

sink a galley we have a GA
in order to make things a little easier, ask Babylon to join the war for engineering
sink another galley but lose a dromon

IT we lose 2 units, but the town stands due to reinforcements

5.150AD
2 Civ's have chivalry now, but we have nothing to trade
get RoP with babs as we have AW with French

IT Mongols want to top it up
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc150.jpg

I refuse to budge
haha, they do not dare to declare war now...cowards

6.170AD
zzz

IT Orleans finishes TGL
maybe we should wait for that and not get education

7.190AD
defeat the remaining 3 intruders

8.210AD
due to a library, research to theology drops to 6

9.230AD
sink another galley that I chased all the way
assemble a force that could go for France, however, it won't be that easy without an army

10.250AD
left the invasion force for the next player..maybe we need far more units
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc250.jpg

Dutch and Chinese have chivalry and invention...we get theology in 4, hope as a monopoly

Yay, we're going to turn the pink island red. :ar15:

I'll see what I can do with it on Saturday.

not if Babylon turns it Red first. :p

SimpleMonkey, do you want to take it now or shall I?

Good Tech-trade ThERaT. War with France is not the best, but much better than no war. The french are military equal with us and have the great wall, so we will need a lot of militia. The question is now, if we wanna stop research after theology and head for the GB or continue research towards education?

Roster:
SimplyMonkey
M60A3TTS
TimBentley
PaGe
ThERaT

If SimplyMoneky doesn't response today, M60A3TTS you are on.

See Out of Pocket thread.

Sorry guys.

OK, I got it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM01_350_AD.SAV

Preturn- I’m not enthusiastic about sending troops over to France. A dozen units won’t make major headway. Any town captured would flip and any razed would be replaced. About the only reason I see for going there is to steal the Glib, but there is no gain to be achieved at the moment. Well maybe we can get an MGL as a consolation prize. Set sail and hope the Mongols don’t sucker punch us.

IBT- Dutch, China start Leos

Turn 1 (260AD) sailing

IBT- French want to talk. No thanks.

Turn 2 (270AD) Start some markets.

IBT- quiet

Turn 3 (280AD) Sail to French shores. Turn science down for theology in 1.

IBT- The Dutch want 50 gold. I decline and now we have war with them.

Turn 4 (290AD) Land the troops at Besancon

IBT- French swarm out of Paris and take out half our invasion force. Two pikes and MI die with no French losses. Two MI and two cats survive. I really don’t know what I was thinking in trying this. Certainly landing near the capital was a stupid move. :suicide:

Turn 5 (300AD) Do a Dunkirk and get back on the boats. Pillage one tile with dromon fire. Turn science off.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 6 (310AD) Continue to return to mainland. Incense and 3 gpt to Hammi for horses. Theology to Mao for Chivalry, Invention, 66 gold and 8 gpt.

IBT- Dutch city of Utrech finishes Knights Templar.

Turn 7 (320AD) Gunpowder in 13 at -18 gpt.

IBT- Babylon and France sign a peace treaty.

Turn 8 (330AD) Quiet

IBT- Quiet

Turn 9 (340AD) Quiet. China and France have gunpowder.

IBT- Vikes declare on us. Sword dies attacking pike at Dyrachium. Land two warriors at Nicae. Dutch finish Sun Tzu.

Turn 10 (350AD) Reinforce Nicea. And done.

Post turn: 4 turns left in a GA. Managed to lose 4 units, killed 1, added two wars.

This whole scenario was doomed to begin with. Not saying the game is, but this will eventually degenerate into AW with everyone as alliances against us kick in. In the meantime, the other civs can out-science us with Republic, and we can’t declare to get them out of it or even get our continent cleared. And the whole nuke thing seems pointless now. Give me a straight AW game, and we can talk nukes later.

The French and Chinese are the tech leaders. Dutch with Suns and Leos make a formidable enemy. Not sure what to do next. There are a couple Viking cities we can grab on our continent. They have iron by Oslo so zerks aren’t far away. If we venture back overseas we need more than two pikes.

Tim, you're up next.

Got it. I think I'll play tomorrow.

Now it will become tricky. War against 3 Civs is much. Gunpowder will come sone, hope we have salpeter else we can't defend our cities.
Since war against the Netherlands is impossible, and the french are to hard (they have the Great wall and have gunpowder now). The only goal could be the vikings (which are in republic now). M60A3TTS do you now their last tech-stand? Did they have invention, so that Berserks will come within the next 10 turns?

At 250AD they still lacked currency, so we have some time. At least two civs have gunpowder at last count.

It might make sense to take the local Viking cities, then play defense on the home continent (which, considering the AI's stunning ability to launch sea invasions, would seem to be pretty doable), until a sufficient force is built to move in on the french. It could take a lot of units, fo sho, but still doable. You could pull off a GLib elevator, which would be nice.

Perhaps an offense on the Viking island would be good. If we hurry a bit, they have only swords and we knights.

My evenings are currently packed and I'm up in two other SGs, so I'll swap with PaGe.

OK. I'll play tomorrow evening.

preturn:
changed temple to dromon in trebizond
changed granary to baracks in Nicaea
changed temple to lib in Naissus
changed temple to dromon in Chalcedon
upgrade dinkey to dromon
moved some troops
some MM

Here we go:
scandinavian warrior attacked and loses
Monte wants republic. I give it him. Not starting another war and republic is known by nearly all civs. But they land two units :/
Const: Knight :)

turn1:
killed scandinavian warrior,
Monte doesn't want to leave our holy land and declares war. Invaders leave our land towards heaven. The atztec galley is destroyed
Move some troops and dromons to the eastside.

IBT:
China gets 50 gold from us.

turn2:
bombard vik galley next time it'll sink

IBT:
Greek buils Sistine Chapel, Babs switch to Leo

tunr3:
dromon sink vik galley.

IBT:
Persia wants Chiv. Don't give it them. Doesn't declare
China has education.

turn4:
zzz

IBT:
GA ended :blaw:
carthage started Leo.

turn5
GA brought much. Now we get Gunpowder in 7 at -37 gold. After ending of horse trade markets should be build.

IBT
Stack in the north is attacked by scand. Pike promotes to elite
Dyr: Lib -> pike

turn6:
attack Tromso: Knight promotes to Elite, sink scand. galley
sink french galley.

turn7:
destroyed Tromso (get 0 Gold, but a slave), destroyed a scand. galley

IBT:
Babs get silks for ROP.

turn8+9:
zzz

IBT:
refuse scand. contact
Persia declares war on Netherlands
French start Copernicus

turn10:
zzz

Infos for the next player:
We have horses for another 6 turns. Because of that Varna and Smyrna are optimized for that, but can be changed back before finishing the horse. (In Smyrna it is the next turn: forest -> mined grasland). Istanbul must be changed again next turn to get the next horse in time.
The stack in the north should capture Odense. After that you can decide to invade Scandinavia. But then you should move all knights that are fortified to the north and upgrade some spears in the north to take them on that journey. Scandinavia still lack currency and now have an average army compared to us. If we have luck we can heavily hurt them before they get berserks. But that would move the invation of france far in the future.

The south is relativ save due to our dromons that easily sink every potential invader. Perhaps you should move them some tiles into the Bab terrain since the new ships are also have 4 tiles movement.

Roster:
TimBentley (is on)
SimplyMonkey ?
ThERat
M60A3TTS
SimplyMonkey
PaGe

@D'Art: Do you still follow the game?

this is fast turning into AW game with us needing to use nukes in the end...hope we can survive that long

More like, hope the AI can survive that long. :p

The prop will be to throw nukes on an ally.

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

The prop will be to throw nukes on an ally.

I seriously doubt we'll have any allies by time we get to nukes.

Sorry I haven't had time to play yet; I'll play today (hmm...I should be in bed).

Sorry, I've still been unable to play. Go ahead and skip me. SimpleMonkey is out, so that would put ThERat up.

ok, got it then

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/TLM01_550_AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
invading Vikings seems the right thing to do befoer their zerks run havoc anyway
MM a little

IT Paris finishes Leo

1.460AD
defeat 2 spears and take Odense, load 4 boats but that won't be enough
we need an army
science down to 10%

IT gunpowder is in, get th FP message
Chinese finish Copernicus

2.470AD
we have no saltpeter of course :gripe:
Greece would sell us edu for gun + 170gold, but we might want to pull off that GL trick

sail over to Viking land and spot spears only, drop 8 units there

IT Vikings attack 4 units, but get all defeated :)
someone lands a sword on our shores

3.480AD
use our boats to bombard Bergen, it does seem very lightly defended
defeat 2 spears and capture the city
ship over an additional pike

kill the Dutch landing and its boat

IT Vikings attack twice and lose both

4.490AD
Babs now have education as well, we will not capture the GL anytome soon and we need astro for overseas trades
get edu +7gold for gunpowder
defeat 2 swords but lose a mace

IT more Viking units streaming in

5.500AD
we need to evacuate that place and land elsewhere, flip risk too high
take a shot and go for 4 elite attacks, but do no get any leader, abandon Bergen

decide to switch off research for now as it would take far too long to get chemistry and there is a potential trade for a 2 fer

6.510AD
let the units heal, 2 civs have banking, but no trade

IT our horse deal now gets really expensive

7.520AD
sink a French galley

8.530AD
moving units closer to Copenhagen and drop some units off

IT interestingly Odense deposes us

9.540AD
take city back
sink 2 enemy boats

Copenhagen has 3 defenders, bomb them all and take city
flip risk again very high

IT many Viking units coming towards Copenhagen

10.550AD
bergen has a new city there, we need an army to raze hell and have settlers to replace the cities
defeat 2 units and then get this :dance:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc550.jpg

form army and fill with 3 knights after taking out 2 more units
evacuate Copenhagen, except for a few artillery and a mace

army moves towards new city with 2 knight below
now we can ship over more units and start razing cites
we need more settlers than the 1 that is one the way

we should try and get astro for overseas trade and caravels
there is still hope that underneath the Viking fog, there is some salt

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc550b.jpg

Well done ThERaT.
Our first leader. That's good. Hope much will follow.
The missing salt was a must. No horses and no salt makes it really expensive for the future.

Who's next?

Please place me on reserve.

I lost my disk.

Roster:
TimBentley - too busy
SimplyMonkey - indefinite skip
ThERat - just played
M60A3TTS - up
PaGe

Hate to break this to you, but Salt can only show up in Desert, Hills, and Mountains. Could you show us a screenie of the entire known Viking island?

Looks like it's mostly forests and snow, but you might get lucky with the hills further south.

A knight army should be able to carve though the rest of Ragnar's holdings. Good for increased unit support. But if it's a three horse task force, it's going to be on that island for a while.

Good job, ThERat! :)

[offtopic] Speaking of snow, we actually got some snow this afternoon. Very little, but still some. :woohoo:
In other news, 1 year ago today, I joined CFC! :bday:
now ending :nospam: post with [offtopic] :nospam:

We seem to be losing a steady base of players, including me for the moment. I am on the road and will not have game access until Saturday.

Here is the Vik terrain for chox.

OK, then it's me again. I think I'll play this evening.
After me M60A3TTS should take it.
SimplyMonkey and TimBentley, do you know when you can take some turns?

SimplyMonkey and TimBentley, do you know when you can take some turns?
I've got spring break coming up, so I'll be out until a week from Sunday.

I made my turns, but they weren't that good, but read on your own:

preturn: Sardica switched to settler

IBT:
Carthage found city in the north of our island
A lot of vik. units approach
netherlands landed 2 units
Varna: Knight->Corthouse (due to chopping)

turn1:
destroying Vadso (2 spears)
@Copenhagen: defeat 2 swords, lose a med. inf
kill netherlands and sink their galley

IBT:
someone got Printing Press,
vik lost one archer
Heroic epic info

turn2:
sink french galley
settler now in dromon with some knights
stack heals in Copenhagen.

IBT:
viks attackes Copenhagen and losing 2 archer+2 swords.
viks want to found a new city
chinese galley approach at Trebizond

turn3:
killed spear and capture settler
and another 2 spears and a archer are out.
Copenhagen is razed

IBT:zzz

turn4: found Nicomedia on vik island

IBT: first french Caravel appears

turn5:
caravel had no chance against our dromon

IBT:
french start Mangellan
Scandinavia has now engineering and feudalism. Invention and zerks are near.

turn6:
sell silks to china for 17 gpt
sink aztec galley, spotted a mongol sword on Bab island. Don't know what he wants there.

IBT
Dutch and Chinese start Mangellan
Mongols are in the second era

turn7:
captured Trondheim,

IBT:zzz

turn8:
start attack on Reykjavik. Unfortunately I lost a knight.
bombed a french galley (down 1HP)

IBT:
french galley returns home

turn9:
captured Reykjavik

IBT:
Trondheim deposes. Damn 3 knights were there to heal.
a french caravel appears at the north

turn10:
several units are still able to move or attack

The deposing of Trondheim really hurts. I only wanted to heal some units from the first Reykja-attack and then raze it to place our next settler. Perhaps the next player should raze Reykja this turn. But then we have no baracks on the other island, but we are able to buy it with the 529 gold.

I think M60A3TTS is next or ThERaT can take it before.

you can always leave units next to a flip risk city. Or raze it, but I would wait for settlers to take the spot so we can make sure to grab all land.

Wait for M60ATTS to come back and take his turns

Or maybe I can make the damn 1.22 patch work. Anybody know any solutions?

choxorn we are welcome to join if you can get the game to work. maybe a fresh and clean install would help

Choxorn, if you can take it you are welcome to, otherwise I will pick it up tomorrow.

choxorn we are welcome to join if you can get the game to work. maybe a fresh and clean install would help

I must have tried that 5 times already. Wait, do you mean I should delete my files, reinstall them, then install the patch and restore any files I want?

Haven' you done that already? So, uninstall Civ, delete the complete Civ-folder, delete everything you can find in the registry comparing to Civ. Reboot. Install Civ and try the patch. If that doesn't work, perhaps the complete system should be made new. I made an image of my system-partition after a fresh installation, so this doesn`t cost me that much time. Perhaps you should try this, too.

"System-partiton" what is that? And where can I find registry comparing to civ? And can I restore things like highscore files, mods and saves to my folders after the installation?

I forgot the "i". I've made several partitions on my hugh disk. It's C:, of which I made an image. Perhaps the system-recovery could also do it, but I always made images the last years (under Win98) and won't change it.

The scenarios, etc should you save before. Just copy/move the complete scenarios-Folder and perhaps the save-Folder (if the saves still function, I don't know. But give it a try) to another place outside the Civ-Folder. It must function when you copy them back after the new installation.

For the regcleaning you can type regedit at the Run... to get access to the registry. Before you delete something save the registry (export to a file). Then you can search in the local_machine>Software-Sektion Civ-entries. They are from Infogames, Firaxis, Atari, Breakaway games (:rolleyes: So much publisher for one game). Normally something Civ-like is listed there. If you have other games from this publisher you must look which is the Civ-entry. But make a backup from the registry first. Then you can easily restore the old version and everything (beside Civ) runs.

I don't really get the resgistry part- plus, I never registered anyway. I didn't know what it did, and didn't want it to do something bad.

Ok, I got it.

It's not the registration of the software at the publisher. The software has to tell windows where it is, etc. But perhaps the uninstallation and new installation will help.

So, basically, I should uninstall Civ3 and C3C, delete the files while saving what I don't want to lose, reinstall civ 3 and C3C, install the 1.22 patch, then restore the files?

[offtopic] There's a tech problems forum that I used to get mine running again after I had the same problems as choxorn. It can be done. Of course, I just ended up getting C3 Complete to have done with it once and for all.

A link would be useful. ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM_750_AD.SAV

Preturn: Check out deals and find that our rep is wrecked because of a trade deal gone bad with Carthage. Ring up Izzy and renegotiate the peace treaty. I don’t think that’s against the rules as long as we make a deal that keeps the peace. Since she seems weaker than us and has a tech we can use, she seems the best candidate. We get Chemistry for 386 gold and 47 gpt. Renegotiate the peace with Alex and trade Chemistry for Astronomy and 12 gold. Take a look at techs now and find the Dutch and French have metallurgy. That means cavalry won’t be too far behind. Not good.

We need to work at playing up to this level. We have no settlers in queue. Being behind in tech will not kill us; not settling open terrain will. Essentially all open terrain is taken. Any space we leave open for our friends to settle in means one less science city for us.

Also, leaving all these dromons around the capital means we have less fire support against the Vikings and we need to pick up the pace. If we get landings, we will just have to deal with them as best we can.

IBT- France lands a knight in the north. Carthage settles Gades in open Vike territory.

(660AD) Kill 2 spears with 2 knights and raze Trondheim. Raze and replace everything is a good general rule, unless it has a Great Wonder. The flip risk is too high at this level. Our problem is no settlers to fill the gaps at the moment. Settle Amorium that has wine in it’s border. Elite knight kills Vike MI. Army and vet knight kill two Vike MI. Vet knight goes elite. Trade the French a knight.

Why didn’t we start the Heroic Epic? :confused: I know we need knights, but this is an AW variant and is a must. Change Constantinople to it.

IBT- Lose a knight to a Vike MI.

(680AD) Three dromons bomard and sink a French caravel. Sink a Vike galley with 3 dromons. Elite knight kills Vike MI. Move main troops next to Oslo.

IBT- Vikes have another galley swimming about.

(700AD) Army and two elite knights kill 3 pikes at Oslo and with cat, treb and dromon fire take the capital and burn it.

IBT- Babs and the French building Bachs. Others building Newtons.

(720AD) Lose 2 knights, kill 4 Vike MI a pike and a settler. Elite knight kills spear and we get MGL.

Load 2 units in knight army. Redline a French caravel.

IBT- Spain decides they would prefer an alliance with the Dutch more than our 47 gpt. So now we have a new enemy. Dutch settler pair w/LB land sw of Amorium.

(740AD) Sink the redlined French caravel. Kill Dutch settler pair. Dromons bombard Stockholm and knight army kills pike and spear. Archer remaining. Addded 3rd knight to army.

IBT- Reykjavik flips again, but this time it was empty. Redline a spear but the culture border makes it impossible to take back as no units are nearby.

(750AD) Heroic Epic complete now. Bombard Stockholm and capture it after killing an archer. Sink a Vike galley with dromons. Sink another French caravel. And done.

My turn log got messed up, but you got the essentials. I wanted to raze Stockholm but our lack of settlers would have open up more empty space that other civs are already heading for. We need to keep settlers in production at all times. We have 4 now. There are two in Vike land and another can set sail next turn. We are back to 57 gpt, but no weak civs to trade techs for peace from at the moment.

The Vikes appear to have no other iron source so it will be spears and archers for the time being.

sounds like excellent progress....got it

and agreed with all the things you did. This will soon be an AW game as predicted...hopefully we can get to Cavs soon.

Well, the good news, you can blow a big good-bye kiss to Spain's reputation.
Want Screenie... :scan:

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/TLM_850_AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we ca only build maces at the moment, no horses nor salt, how beautiful
MM our capital from a wasteful 19spt to 20spt

1.760AD
take back Reykjavik and found Ancyra
take out 2 Viking units

IT Vikings do have some horsemen coming, do they have horses we so badly need?
Carthago lands another settler pair to claim land in ex Viking territory, we should not raze cities unless we have a replacement

2.770AD
Greece and Babylon now have physics, but no metallurgy
with the trade rep shot, we can't do anything here
move towards Aarhus, take out 3 horses

3. 780AD
take out another horse, found Brusa
take out 3 pikes and we capture Aarhus

found out that Vikings have this 1 tile Island, thus we better replace all of their towns eventually

IT Persia demands incense, we refuse, they bugger off

4.790AD
replace Sockholm with New Stockholm

5.800AD
take icy Birka in the north
take Stavanger with the mini stack

IT Vikings lnad a scary warrior next to Reykjavik

6.810AD
Persia seems to have horses on offer now
too expensive, sell china furs for 41gpt, that's a real good deal
we now make 123gpt and that should give us enough cash for some steal soon

take Molde and Vikings have only 1 city left on this pelago

IT renegotiate lux deal with China and get them to pay another 63 gpt for 2 luxes
Spanish caravels are sailing around, but did not land anything so far

7.820AD
take out 1 pike and that pelago is Viking free

IT France lands a LB and Spain a spear/warrior

8.830AD
The French LB has disappeared, they do have some cash problem :lol:

9.840AD
land a party in east Scandinavia

10.850AD
defeat 2 spears and take Alesund, move troops towards Hareid
we do have settlers that can replace cities in the south
make sure we do not cut our trade route without harbors, China is giving us a tide sum now

situation now:

we also need to plan the next target, which is further away, maybe we can get galleons and send over our knight armies to take on France
we could of course, be a bit dastardly and steal metal from Carthago, if we do no succeed and get a war, we can get rid of those eye sore cities
and replace them with our own

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tmc850.jpg

Ouch. The Vikes are going to last until Amphi war and they didn't have Saltpeter. Why don't you use Ctrl+Shift+M to search the map for it?

Ragnar may as well be on Alcatraz. He's done. We have another deal we may want to grab now. Renegotiate peace with Alex to get metallurgy then trade it to Hammi for physics. Then we can make a run at MT.

It's just 3 of us at the moment, so PaGe is up again.

Well done of you both. Ragnar will be in exil with his berserks.
Okay then I take a look at the game and play again some turns. 3 players aren't that much.

Is possible that I could clear some time to take 10 this weekend.

I would, if PaGe and SimpleMonkey would answer my questions from the end of the last page! :p

A lot happened:
We have war now against the mongols and they overran us a bit. They lost now over 20 units and still have a real stack of doom. But just read and have a look at the pictures.

pre-turn:
Nobody wants to trade metallurgy to us.
Sardica switched to Grany. That can be a settler-pump.
set science to 100% (Metallurgy in 10 instead of 31).

IBT:zzz

turn1:
Move towards last vik city.
switched Varna to forbidden palace.
Istanbul, Adrianople, Caesarea and nicaea to uni
smyrna to grany for faster growth

IBT:zzz

turn2
found Prilep
sink a galley in Bodo (Vik)


IBT:
french and mongols signed a trade embargo against us :undecide:
Mongols declare war on us! Be aware of the Keshiks cause I think they got Chiv for that. :D and :(
french Galleon appeared at Smyrna
Mongols captured 3 worker
several mongols appear (horseman, longbow, med inf.)

turn3
Again the french boat is made of wood and burns at dromon fire :)
Hareid captured, so only Bodo is left.
spanish caravel sunk
Our armies are captured on the vik island. We need magnetism for transport. So they guard the vik isle
Ohrid found
knights head home.
bought grany in Heraclea for 100 gold.
buy salt from greece for silk, wine, furs (it was our only one, but a new city will grap a new one) and 170 gold
gave wines to Carthage as a gift. We don't need another enemy now.
Upgraded some pikes to muskets.
take out 2 mongols

IBT:zzz
lose a sword and a pike (bad move by me)
stavanger deposes
Babs got Metallurgy. Now trade to get other techs possible for us.

turn4
Stavanger is our again
lose a sword, the mongols lose archer, spear, 3 med. inf.
Vidin found

IBT
lost 4 units against mongols. They are a bit lucky against us.
Reykavik deposes.
France galleon appeared at Consti.

turn5
recaptured Reykja.
raze Birka. But that would cancel our salt-trade. So I reloaded and doesn't raze it. Build a colony with a worker to get the second fur.
We can trade wine, furs, 650 gold and 10gpt for horses. Will be done in 3 then Consti will be ready to get the knight out.
bombard french galleon
bombard around Dyrr.
buy walls in Naissus. The Mongols move mainly to Dyrr. and Caesarea, but I feel saver that way.

IBT
french galleon returns.
The first Keshik appeared and killed a fortified musket In Dyr. :cringe: GA of the mongols must be started now.
Persia and Netherlands signed a peace treaty.
Persia started Bach
many units in front of Dyrr.

turn6
The cats at Dyrr have much unluck. One hit, 5 miss.
Argh! Why haven't I bought the walls in Dyrr, too. Now done. Hope we don't loose Dyrr.
Buy Horses from Babs for 595 gold, wines, furs, 14 gpt. Not that the Mongols get money from us.
Our last hope. Elite knight kills spear and ...

IBT
Mongols take Dyrr after 6 mongols vs 4 from us are lost. Dyrr. now with 4 pikes and 3 or 4 cats.
Pentagon-Info
Aarhus deposes.
French completed Bach

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/falling_of_Dyrr.jpg

turn7
Aarhus retaken.
killed Keshik, Screenies

IBT:
The mongol has many units. That's a prob.
China declared war on Dutch
another french galleon at the north

turn8
bomb french galleon
sink mongol galley
raze Trebi. It's the only way to protect Consti from the horses.
Army heals in Consti.
Next turn we can spent more to offense.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Razing_Treb.jpg

IBT
mongol move towards Conti
Metallurgy comes in -> Physiks
Spanish start Shakespeare

turn9
The mongols must have the magic potion from Miraculix. 2 Pikes get our army from 13->5 HP. With some tricks I get rid of the first (fast) stack.
Samosata found.

Before:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/offense_on_Consti.jpg
After my turns and the unsolved prob:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/unsolved_prob.jpg

I stop here, cause the preparation for the next stack must be made now. And we have to decide if we go for military tradition to get Cavs. We actually have salt and horses for the next 12 turns and we can research it in 9 turns. 3 turns to make money and upgrade the knights. For sure that will cost 9 turns, but would make the offense much easier.
The two dromon at the north-west should stay there to push back french galleons. Another two should stay near Conti to push away the other ones. The 2 dromons at greece are planed to make some trouble in france and have a look at their defense.
The dromons south of Alesund are really good against spanish offensives.
By time a dromon should visit the vik city and bomb it to be sure they don't have a galley that can throw zerks on our new isle.

The war against the mongols came a bit suprising. We lacked a passage over the mountains, which I started, but had to cancel. This made the holding of Dyrr. impossible. The way was to long especially for the slow units.

Ah, and for the vik island I made a dot-map I follow. It's big!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/vik-island.jpg

ThERaT, that's seems to be a job for you. Sorry it isn't the best start :sad: , but you will manage it. I'm sure :king: .

I think M60ATTS is up

Oh sorry. You are right.

M60ATTS, I've a little present for you. A lot of fun with a mongol out of control. :D

@ThERaT: Any suggestions for the further game? Heading for cavs?

actually I think it's good that Mongols declared on us, it gives us a prefect next target, too bad our armies can't be shipped home.

Head for cavs is the way to go since Mongols have horses...We simply need to secure some salt from somewhere...with Cav armies, we will roll over the AI I hope...

ok, I got it.

It's too bad we didn't make the deal for metallurgy and physics that I mentioned, now the window of opportunity is closed on that deal.

Looks like Caesarea or Adrianople may be their next target.

@ chox: If you go to the Civ3 technical support forum, there are two stickies right at the top giving all kinds of reinstallation tips and fixes for patch problems. There's gotta be something there, or in some of the other posts there. The best advice again is to just do a complete uninstall/wipe of everything Civ on your drive and reinstall fresh from the top. Good luck, as they say.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM01_1040_AD.SAV

Preturn- SoD is 4 LBs, 7MI, and 7 swords.

IBT- Mongols lose a keshik attacking our knight who promotes. Babylon and China sign MPP which brings Hammi into a war with Willy. Aarhus flips again.

Turn 1 (950AD) Dromons sink a Spanish galleon.

IBT- Mongols break their forces in two

Turn 2 (960AD) Faced with overwhelming numbers of Mongols, we do the only thing possible, assault the Mongol homeland. Army shifts east.

IBT- Mongols milling about, and ask for peace. Sorry bud, you messed with the wrong civ.

Turn 3 (970AD) Knight army kills musket, pike and LB. Burn Dalzag… whatever. No gold. Sink a French galleon.

IBT- Mongols pillage a tile and look to plan on more of the same. That’s fine, we’ll burn them out faster this way.

Turn 4 (980AD) Land a settler at the Mongol ruins. Elite knight kills a keshik.

IBT- Persia allies with China against Willy.

Turn 5 (990AD) At Caesarea kill spear and archer.

IBT- Adrianople loses a musket, knight, a pair of pikes and an MI. A redlined spear saves the city from defeat. Spain lands at

Turn 6 (1000AD) The offensive continues. Capture Choybalsan defended by a musket, pike and LB. Attach Dyrrachium and lose a knight and 2 MI. Mongols lose 2 muskets. Knight kills a red keshik. Trade an MI with Mongols. Sink a Spanish galley. Replace Molde that loses the horse deal. PaGe really shouldn't have reloaded that in his set.

IBT- Greece and China declare on the Dutch. Spanish capture Hareid. France lands two knights by Hareid.

Turn 7 (1010AD) Lose a knight but recapture Dyrrachium. Recapture Hareid.

IBT- French capture Hareid, Spanish move next to Alesund which is undefended.

Turn 8 (1020AD) Sink Mongol galley. Kill 3 Mongol MI and an LB in our territory. Renegotiate peace with Persia for 8 gpt. Renegotiate peace with Hammi for horses. We give fur, wine, 38 gold and 69 gpt. Upgrade 3 knights to cav.

IBT- French land 2 rifles, 2 knights, and LB and an MI on our shores. Spanish capture Alesund.

Turn 9 (1030AD) Sink another Mongol galley. Lose a knight, but kill both French rifles. Kill 3 more Mongol swords in our territory. Our army is down to 5hp at Septum.

IBT- Our army is killed at Septum by a French knight. :(

Turn 10 (1040AD) Kill off the last of the French. Kill 6 Mongol units that were attempting to flee back to their homeland but were in the open. Finish off another pike with a cav that was trying to pillage. Sink a French galleon that had dropped troops in our land. Physics in 9. And done.

Post turn. Well the combat losses were not what I wanted. But we did recapture Dyrracchium and two other towns and beat back the Mongol invasion. Their force is down to a couple MIs, pikes and an LB. Next up will need to gather the 7 cav we have plus some more in the works and decide whether to take out the Mongols three western towns or secure horses at Darhan.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM_Daland.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM_Choybalsan.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM_Dyrrachium.JPG

Nice Graphics, dude! where'd you get them?
Okay, Simplemonkey, I'll check those threads out.
EDIT: simple, they pretty much only say to mess with thing s I don't want to mess with, do some piracy I wouldn't don if you payed me, or just do a clean reinstall. I think I'll just download the regcleaner Page PMed to me and delete the registry then reinstall the game.

some rough turns here, but we made progress to push them back. Taking the horses sounds good. If we get a Cav army in the process, we will be fine and could take out the next target after that...

got it

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/TLM01_1150_AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
MM properly and we get physics to 8 turns but at -12gpt
bomb some units and defeat a pike

IT defend against 2 keshiks a Choybalsan and then lose the redlined knight against pike
Spain starts a war against persia

1.1050AD
bombard around a bit and take out 2 pikes and then get a MGL taking out a keshik

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1050.jpg

IT lose another knight in Choybalsan to a keshik

2.1060AD
defeat 3 units while retreating back the army into Choybalsan

IT no attacks this time as we have an army to defend

3. 1070AD
trade a Cav against an intruder keshik, defeat LB and keshik moving army forward yet again

IT defeat keshik on defense
China demands 21gold and a TM, I cave
the Vikings declare on them

4.1080AD
reduce science, and move forward

IT retreat a keshik, our salt deal is up and the Greek do not want to give it to us again
Spain now declares on carthago
Mogols join in and fight Greece as well

5. 1090AD
we need salt from somewhere, but Greece refuses to do so
Mongols however have salt
take Tabriz and found 'next to Aarhus'

IT defeat a keshik with a Cav

6.1100AD
defeat a keshik and a pike/LB combo

IT defeat another keshik, but those units are highly annoying
Babs finish Shakes

7.1110AD
move army next to Almarikh and spot saltpeter there :dance:, that's our saviour of the game I guess

IT bad RnG as we lose 1 musket and 2 cavs only defeating 1 keshik
wow, Chinese build US, we are quite a bit behind in tech

8.1120AD
found Trebizond, defeat 2 kehiks, defeat 2 defenders and we own Almarikh and saltpeter
take out musket/LB combo after bombarding it
physics is in, we can get magnetism in 8 at self research at a decent science

IT Persia and France sign trade embargo against us
defeat a keshik for a change

9.1130AD
take darhan and Mongols have no horses any longer
replace Darhan with a settler we shipped there, thus found Horses

IT defeat a keshik at Almarikh

10.1140AD
sell babs a lux for 13gpt
move towards next city, play a turn extra to even things out

take Hovd on turn 11

we should b able to take the other part of mongolia as well. if we are fast with cavs and the arm, we should be able to
finish them off without too many flips

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1150.jpg

Diplomacy is a mess right now. Who's at war with who?

Well done M60A3TTS and ThERaT.
Without horses and salt the mongols would be easy to defeat. Luck for us to have this two ressources, so we mustn't pay the hugh prize for it.

I take a look at the save. To bad that carthage has rifleman now. And I think it won''t be the only one.

And a the war-list for chox
we:
france
mongols
vikings
Dutch
Spain
Aztecs

France:
us
Netherlands

Aztecs:
us

Mongols:
us
Greece
Carthage

Dutch:
us
China
Greece
France
Carthage

Spain:
us
Carthage

Greece:
netherlands
mongols

China:
netherlands
vikings
Mutual Protection with Aztecs

Vikings:
us
CHina
Babs

Persia:
with no one

Babs:
vikings

Carthage:
Dutch
Spain
mongols


SimplyMonkey is on now.

So, put into slightly less confusing matters in this screenie (forgive quality):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/TLM01_Diplomacy.JPG

SimplyMonkey seems not to be able to make some moves. I can play earliest on Thursday. If someone of you wants to play first, just do it.

pre-turn: zzz

IBT:
vik galley leaves Bodo
Carthage and France signed embargo against us.
Keshik attacked salt-city, but has to retreat.
Greece and Netherlands make peace

turn1:
killed the Keshik
spotted Greece longbow and rifle in the south of Mongolia
units huddle in Hovd for next offense

IBT: zzz

turn2:
captured Kazan
killed a mongol longbow

IBT:
Cina and viks make peace
mongol loose a med. inf, land a pike at Kazan, 2 longbow and a Keshik appears.
Spain wants to speak. But we don't want.

turn3:
takeout pike, Keshik, bows

IBT:
Chinese start ToE

Turn4:
Attack Karakorum and get a leader. Will rush Pentagon. (kill 2 musket, 2 pike and loose a vet. cav). Captured 3 slaves and 2 treb and The Oracle, which makes a lot of commerce.
a little stack moves towards Ulaanbaatar with the captured trebs.

IBT:
viks landed a spear and a warrior
Babs want Incense for 11 gpt, but they must pay 13 gpt.
a privateer sunk a mongol caravel
Karasjok deposed :( The Caravel was nearly ready.

turn5:
dromons sunk privateer. Unfortunately the next one is near.
hurry pentagon in Caesarea
bad run at Ula. Lost 3 cavs against a pike. The 6 HP armies takes it then.
Karasjok taken back.

IBT:
first priv kills a dromon, another priv approaches and looses
a persian frigate at Mongol south
Magnetism->Theory of Grav
Our palast ist expanded. Really nice.
Dutch start Universal Suffrage.

turn6:
sink last priv.
troops heal
at Mandalgovia some cavs are lost. And it still holds.

IBT:
ROP with Babs renewed
Greece and Mongols signed peace
Chinese is annoyed but pays 48 gpt for furs. :eek:

turn7:
One attack and Mandalgovia is our.
Greece pays 26 gpt for wine, furs and incense

IBT:
renewed peace with babs, persia
Netherland and Carthage make peace
china pays 110 gpt for silk, incense and wine
Carthage captured Tatu :( One turn before us.

turn8:
Tamoria found on spot I razed ? (near Const.
Because of the Chinese we can research at 100% and even get 100 gold a turn. :D.

IBT:
Netherland and China signed peace

turn9:
captured Tseterleg after a 4 HP Cav lost against a 1 HP musket.
sink vik galley

IBT:
a keshik captured several cats. I wonder where it comes from. Cheat?
Kazan deposed. I wondered why this didn't happen earlier.
Chinese completed Universal suffrage.

turn10:
Kazan recaptured,
The mongols are history.


Next goal?
Spanish scince they are weaker then us, but a bit away,
France, which have nearly the same strength and many beautiful wonders. But then we should take the Chinese on board to capture the town in the far east.

One thing I recognized now. A 4 unit army can't be shipped. Argh. Our Cav army is now captured on our homeland. :wallbash: Sorry, cause I haven't needed the extra unit that importent. A cav army would have made war against The french much easier.

We must have a look at China. It has 30k culture point and makes 500 a turn. I didn't switch off the culture-vic.

edit: At the spot with the Cav and the musket I would settle to grap the silks before Carthage gets it.

great that we have taken out the Mongols...to bad that we can't take the Cav army along, this would be a though slog without them..maybe need to build the Mil Academy and form an army that way...

With army support, we might be able to take on France...Carthago is annoying

M60ATTS is up

IBT:
a keshik captured several cats. I wonder where it comes from. Cheat?
Kazan deposed. I wondered why this didn't happen earlier.
Chinese completed Universal suffrage.

They didn't have any cities? Then maybe they had a settler?


One thing I recognized now. A 4 unit army can't be shipped. Argh. Our Cav army is now captured on our homeland. :wallbash:

Sure it can be shipped- but you have to wait until Combustion. :)


We must have a look at China. It has 30k culture point and makes 500 a turn. I didn't switch off the culture-vic.

Relax- at this rate, it will take 140 turns for them to get to 100k. :lol:

Oh, and I'm bored, so here's the current diplomacy (I think):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/TLM01_Diplomacy1250.JPG

The Keshik come out of a mongol city, but it has been really long, that they didn't have horses. Because of that I wondered. Perhaps the Babs traded the horses to them.

The prob with Cina is, that they are clear tech-leader. They have 14.000 gold and will get most of the WW.

Perhaps we should take our knight-armies to france and fill them their with a cav. Not the best, but better then nothing.

Some things I've forgotten to mention:
- build a mine on the clear plains-tile. Then Consti can make 20 shields (=cavs in 4).
- at the end of my turns I saw dromons fortified at Hareid. They should be taken back.
- Also several workers are fortified in Nicomedia. Would be good if you take them back to our homeland for railroading
- Perhaps you should switch Varna to the mil. academy. It has the highest potential base-production (I think it's 37 shields, loosing 3 or 4 to corruption). That could be a army in nearly 6 turns with factory and coal-plant. To fasten it, you can join some workers. (Can be done in 14 turns with starving)
- In 6 turns we are in the industrial ages! Hope we have luck and get steam power and not nationalism.


edit:
Something more comes in my mind. If we instigate a war between china and france (not that expansive) and they fight the Atztecs also get in due the mutual protection. If we have luck the power of china and france is decimated.

PaGe, you posted the wrong save.

No, I've constructed a time machine. Haven't I mentioned it?

Here, is the right one.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM1-1300_AD.SAV

Preturn- Not looking good. Mao is building the ToE, so we’ll be down 6-8 techs or thereabouts. Hannibal got another city down, this time on our continent. As I said, that’s going to do us in at the end, unless we get a war going with them.

Two settlers out there, none in queue.

Our navy has 13 dromons, but no frigates or galleons. Two galleons in queue in resisting cities. Upgrade 2 dromons for 120 gold. Switch Naissus from musket to courthouse. Start 3 Mongol towns on settlers.

7 turns to the IA. Native worker pool is a little thin if by a stroke of luck we draw Steam Power as our free tech. MM Constantinople from 19 to 20 shields per turn. Once we get to rail, Caesarea should be generating that number of shields as well. In fact, that looks like the most promising site for a military academy, so I switch the build to that from cavalry.

Turn 1 (1255AD)- Move two armies to try and eliminate the lone resister at Karasjok. Move troops to Mandalgovi to break resistance there.

IBT- China finishes ToE. Theory of Gravity in, Banking in 4. Resistance ends in Karasjok and Mandalgovi.

Turn 2 (1260AD)- Disband all our warriors. MPs aren’t needed now. Upgrade three more dromons so we now are at 5 galleons. Move armies to Stavanger to break resistance there.

IBT- China declares on Carthage. Could prove interesting. Resistance ends at Stavanger and Kazan.

Turn 3 (1265AD) Worker stuff. Move some dromons closer to home.

IBT- Three Dutch frigates and a galleon appear SE of Karakorum

Turn 4 (1270AD) Move cav into area of Karakorum.

IBT- Carthage and Scandanavia do a trade embargo against us. China and Persia have MPP. Dutch now have two transport groups in sight.

Turn 5 (1275AD) Slip in another town on our continent- Iconium. Move cav into position by Hovd. Upgrade 4 Mongol trebs to cannon.

IBT- Banking comes in. We draw the runner-up tech: Nationalism. No trades available as the AI has all three starter techs. Here come the landings at Hovd. Five Dutch cav and a reg rifle. Spain also lands there which you almost never see, two civs with landings at the same place and time. One cav and conquistador. Well we are ready.

Turn 6 (1280AD) At Hovd, our Mongol cannons draw first blood, Dutch rifle goes red and cav loses hp. Catapult knocks off another hp. Elite and vet cav kill the Spanish intruders. The first three healthy Dutch cav are butchered by our cav army. The next two Dutch cav die at the hands of elite cav. Red Dutch rifle dies against elite cav and we draw another MGL. Form 2nd Byzantine Cavalry Army and load with 3 units.

IBT- Persia and China ally against Carthage

Turn 7 (1285AD) Quiet

IBT- Aztecs and China ally against Carthage

Turn 8 (1290AD) Our first two frigates are anchored in the harbor of Constantinople.

IBT- Babylon joins the Chinese crusade against Carthage. Three Chinese naval groups are sailing up our east coast, presumably to go after Malaca.

Turn 9 (1295AD) Quiet

IBT- Chinese flotilla continues to trek north along our coast. Bab cav attacks Malaca. Babs now showing infantry.

Turn 10 ( 1300AD) Moving workers off our eastern possessions to the homeland for use when steam comes in. And done.

Post turn- Things are heating up on the international front with all the alliances. From a tech standpoint, it’s pretty depressing. Steam in 6. We could use electricity for irrigation, industrialism for production, and espionage for stealing. Keep building frigates so we can get a fleet together and set sail for somewhere.

great job getting us another army...I am inclined to go after France, it will be a tough battle, but we could gain a lot. Or Spain?

Maybe China razes some Carthage cities, would suit us pretty well...

I am also inclined to do for espionage for tech stealing, should help us out for he more expensive techs

this is a got it

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/TLM1-1350_AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
I think France is the most practical target right now
send our 3 cav army over so we can send a convoy there

MM our cities and steam now in 5

IT France and babs sign alliance against Carthage, lucky ii's not us

1.1305AD
convoy with 2 galleons starts towards France

2.1310AD
decide to sell babs 2 luxes for 28gpt
convoy is sailing

IT Babs took the northern Carthage city and now China is landing moer troops, this will be tight for them
France lands 4 units next to Naissus on a mountain

3. 1315AD
since our army can't reach the intruder, send some cavs in the city to defend

IT lose a cav but beat one MDI, France lands 4 more units on that spot

4.1320AD
defeat a pike that wandered off the mountain with army, leave the rest alone
land units in France
science down to 80%

IT renew lux deal with babs but get a little more gpt
TaTu turns Chinese
we get steam, indus next in 10 :eek:
first view into city screen, of course no coal

5. 1325AD
get really angry as there is no coal anywhere, Babs/France also have none, the closet is in china and under a Carthagian city
no trades there as well
if we could get electricity, we might be able to trade that for indus

switch off science a turn, we might be able to steal

clear all 6 French intruders, but los 2 cavs to absolute terrible RnG (e.g. cav to 2 hp mace)

attack and take Marseilles, losing a mere Cav
since we can't keep such a city, sell all improvements and abandon it
nets us 140gold

sink 2 galleons in Besancon

now we got enough cash and take electricity :dance:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1325.jpg

it's just not enough cash to get indust from Persia, gpt deal not possible

6.1330AD
can get the deal for indust with the additional cash we have

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1330.jpg

go for espionage now, self research in 8
send another galleon with 4 cavs towards France

IT renew a lux deal with China, up it from 48gpt to 50gpt

7.1335AD
stack of workers are heading south to at least irrigate since we can't rail without coal

IT lux deal with Greece is up and they refuse to renew
lux deal with China gets reduced to 78gpt from 100gpt

8.1340AD
take out a first rifle in Besancon with healed army

IT Dutch land 4 cavs next to Naissus
we finally get the Mil Academy
start a factory, but it will take

9.1345AD
army takes care of the Dutch cavs
take out 4 units and Take Besancon, ship in 5 more cavs to help out

IT French seem strangely paralyzed as they do nothing at all

10.1350AD
we can decide to take out all units from Bescacon as the flip risk is high, but the army would need it to heal
send another galleon with Cavs/ rifle and settler on the way
I guess we need to raze/replace here

situation:
espionage due in 3, we might want to stop research and go all out to steal, if we do that, should sell all the unis and get more banks
the lack of coal hurts big time

France is strangely passive really

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/tlc1350.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/TLM1350.JPG

Diplomacy again... (I get bored easily) (Note: I no longer keep track of MPP's :p)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/TLM01_Diplomacy1350.JPG

First of all: coal isn't the prob now. I bought it from carthage, but now we have war with China, Greece and Babs and lost our France-Army. That`s to much for me, so I stopped at turn 9. I hope you can rescue the game.

preturn
trade 4 lux for 46 gpt to Persia
changed scientists to tax-collector (espionage still in 3)
bombard a med. inf. in Dijon. French Guerilla and rifle on the way to it.
Units stay in Besancon, cause a 3 HP army is useless.
Smyrna switched to market. Even with 3 MPs they are not happy enough for next growth.

IBT:
several french rifleman approach
China and Carthage signed peace
Dutch landed 5 cavs at Naissus

turn1:
army+2cavs killed dutch intruders
takeout 2 rifleman and guerilla.
One more turn Besancon is hold. Enemy will reach us else.

IBT:
5 rifle, 4 med. inf., 1 guerilla at Besancon

turn2:
takeout all french, last turn for Besancon
sink french galleon

IBT
France and Babs signed alliance against viks.
France and Carthage signed peace.
Espionage->Medicine

turn3:
Varna switched to Agency (20 turns)
takeout an guerilla, raze Bes and found New Const. on spot.
Research on Min. Sell several science buildings.

IBT:
Now it'll become tricky:
China declares war on us.
They capture Constantinopolis (not Constantinople) and Karakorum. Karakorum is razed.
They captured many slaves.
Dutch want to talk. No! They continue their preparation for landing.

turn4:
kill Chinese cav hardly with a cav.
found New adrionople to fill the gap of Karakorum.
buy rifle in Hovd.
buy Baracks in New Constantinople.
Offer Greece furs for 12 gpt.
Take Carthage in war with Cina for World map + 560 gold.

IBT
Greece signed alliance with china against us.
a dutch frigate sinks our

turn5:
Home-Army kills cav in chinese-Const.
Navy moves to Dijon,
France-Army killed a rifle in Paris (no cats, etc.)

IBT:
Greece declares war on Carthage
dutch landed 4 cavs at horses. That'll hurt.
spotted a chinese destroyer at Erdenet
Tatu guarded by an reg. infantry.
chinese fleet carthagians island in the north (Alesund)

turn6:
cav takes back Constantinopolis
2 cavs tak-out 2 dutch. The Home-army hurries accross the continent to kill the last two.
captured Dijon.

IBT:
Babs ask for alliance against carthage. Reject.
privateer sinks dromon near vik city.
Brika deposed
Several cities riot (furs are missing now)
another chinese destroyer approaches.

turn7:
:( med. inf fails against vik spear. The knight-army takes it back.
captured Tours. They had an artillery in it.
killed 2 guerilla at Dijon
Buy coal from carthage for 3 lux + 1280 gold Worker head back to center.

IBT:
Aztecs and Carthage signed peace
Chinese transporter at Ulaanb. Propaganda action at Ulaanb.
Babs take Calkaris (carthage town on vik island)

turn8;
a lot of healing, Buy market at Smyrna.

IBT:
Babs and China signed an alliance against us :eek:
Tour deposed with the cav-army in it. That turn kills us/me.
Someone has stolen our mil. plans.
2 chinese bombers bombard Hovd

turn9:
Home-army + 3 cavs killed 2 inf. and 1 cav. Captured Tatu, destroyed 7 chin. bombers got our slaves back and 366 gold.
Knight-Army attacked Calaris (Bab) and killed 2 inf. Unfortunately at least a cav and a guerilla remains. Second army was to far away.
3 cavs killed 2 infs at Zariqum.

Further pictures.

spain, carthage, france, viks are weaker
Persia and Greece are average
Rest is stronger than us

the good news is that it can't get any worse...bad news is that China will shred us to pieces since this is AW and we have no allies.

A few things I noted though.

Why did we research medicine? Can't see any benefit from that at this time. I think we should research/steal the upper branch. We need flight for AA units.

changed scientists to tax-collector (espionage still in 3)This issue keeps on reappearing in many games I play. Taxmen are always worse than scientist when doing self research. The only give 2 coins, but scientists give 3 beakers. Hence, it is only wise to change scientist on the last turn before getting the tech. The benefit we get from scientists will pay indirectly since we sould be able to drop overall science the turn before getting espionage...

Tour deposed with the cav-army in it.We were asking for this. You were extremely lucky not to lose the army to a flip in the first city. The flip risk was something like 20%...you should never leave the sole army we have in a flip risk city beyond the first IT...

As you mentioned I set everything in espionage. Sell science-buildings, research at 3 beakers for medicine scince this can be researched in 50 turns, the rest should be stolen earlier.

The prop with the army again was only 4 HP left. So I should have moved completely back to New Const. and raze Tour. Afterwards I know it.
The prob was to make progress. The war against China and the other civs needed the new produced units, so I tried to move around with the cav-army to raze the bigger french cities. Paris was to hard. The army lost 11 HP killing one unit and it shouldn't be razed because of the wonders. The cities in the south were to far away, so the only way was northwards.

The tax-man-argument I understand. It also could have been that we cannot reduce the rate. But because of the ratio 3:2 you are right.

China has Bombers, ouch. You guys are in deep $#!t. I suggest that as soon as the CIA is complete, turn off reserach, get a bunch of gold, and steal a bunch of tech. And, as usual, the diplomacy (I still have too much spare time):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/TLM01_Diplomacy1395.JPG
I suggest you guys ditch the rule that one of the ICBM's has to hit an ally, since you only have Carthage and Persia left, and maybe not them for long!

I think we need to take a step back at this point and assess what victory conditions we have a shot at (if any) and determine an appropriate course of action (again, if any)

There only seem to be two remote chances, domination and space ship.

Domination- We are so far behind in tech now, that any naval forces we send out into the open will risk being sunk in short order. We would need flight and combustion in order to expand out with destroyers and transports.
The basic issue is we're fighting infantry now and tanks later. Then it will be mech and TOWS and we'll still likely be fighting with cav. We would need to get to RP and get piles of arty and infantry.

Space flight- We would need to steal our way to tech parity and beyond. It seems the only way to do that is build our military up for the sole purpose of defending the homeland. Then pour everything into wealth and try to get caught up.

My concern is that we need a much greater industrial base to do either, and paying Carthage huge amounts of gold and luxuries for coal is self-defeating in the long run. My guess is that a space victory is our best chance, which isn't saying much. It's a 100-1 shot and even that may be optimistic.

Thoughts?

As you mentioned I set everything in espionage. Sell science-buildings, research at 3 beakers for medicine scince this can be researched in 50 turns, the rest should be stolen earlier.
Now, that makes perfect sense, sorry for my comments, but the turnlog didn't mention it...or I didn't see it :crazyeye:

@M60ATTS

Agree with your assessment of the situation. I can recall 2 games with similar situation.

One was Silence is Golden, but at least we could still go for peace. That way we got temporary relieve and could inch our way to a SS victory with many steals and weakening the top opponent and depriving them of crucial resources. But, we changed to communism, which would suit us far more.

Another was a handy AW game with Celts running away like China here. There was nothing stopping them once they had bombers as they would shred any army to pieces we wanted to land. They eventually won UN vote. Here, it won't be a UN vote, too many wars, but they will win SS unless they lack some crucial resource, either alu/oil/rubber.

So, I suggest to get to communism and continue to steal our way up

Agency will be ready in 15 turns. We have 1395 Gold and get 261 each turn. Our units cost us 21 gpt at the moment.
I agree with Communism. Better spies and unit support.

OK, looks like I got it again. Priority is getting the Babs cleaned off the continent.

In 1415AD, the remaining Cavalry Army of the Byzantines charged gloriously against a fortified reg Bab infantry at Shurrupak. Having defeated another just like it the previous turn, the brave troopers showed no fear.

Regretably, it met it's fate knowing that on the same day, 10 Chinese infantry, three guerillas and a cavalry had landed in the east at Salt City. Without any strategic reserve available, Empress Theodora knew the fate of the empire was decided.

Anyone who would like to try and salvage it, go ahead. But it's truely time to turn out the lights on this one, friends. :suicide:

agree, time to bury this game....it would lead to nowhere in the short and long run...in fact the issue was, that 2 variants were mixed into 1 game , which rendered it useless... :(

:agree: The Chinese have to much power and even if we can throw them back this time with great looses, new ones will come, we can't handle.