Easy question. In most of your civ games, what is the one civ that always ends up hindering your progress in the game? And ends up being a massive thorn in your side? IE: Refusal for open borders (cough Toku), declaration of war at the most inconvenient times, or they always end up just so darned powerful!

To me it always is Mansa and those damn Mali's, in most of my games it will always come down to a showdown between us no matter what. He seems to be able to make friends, so I have trouble bringing in war buddies.

Who is always a thorn in your side? :king:

I always seem to have problems with Louis XIV. He seems to always feel the need to come at me with two or three Stacks of Doom, even when we're not neighbors.

The English leaders Elizabeth and Victoria, and Celt leader Brennus. They always seem to get the best land and a good tech lead in most games.

i'd say I played 2 games with ragnar...always finished bad...he ate 10 nukes in my last game though

Hehehe I love the phrasing of that....ate ten nukes :)

I agree about Mansa. He seems to expand like crazy, and he's very hard to attack early because of those damned skirmishers. So then he gets friends and a massive economy. He also always seems to take good advantage of the coast.

For some reason Wang Kon doesn't give me the same trouble even though protective/financial likewise means he can build a massive economy and he's hard to prune early.

It's not an easy thing to state "this civ is nice and that civ is bueeee" :D Obviously, morons like Toku/Monty or fanatics like Isabella are most of the times troublesome, but it all depends if You'll befriend Yourself with them or not. Izzy saved my butt once on Emperor when I was going cultural (I had 5-6 cities only on huge map), Toku can be excellent warmonger ally (though I just don't like this paranoical, trust-noone and propably truth-is-out-there as well leader) etc. It all depends to me :)

@Polycrates
Wang Kon quite often causes problems when he's founding religion other than mine and gathering some friends in faith. Can be pretty nasty too :P

Besides Tokugawa and Montezuma and Isabella, the triumvirate of evil in Civ4, someone who always seems to make me mad is Churchill. The first game I remember playing against him on a continents map, and he was on the other continent. He declared war when he was cautious for no reason - I wasn't at war with any ally of his, just some guy on my continent - and razed one of my cities. That really, really made me mad, of course.

And even when he's on your side, he never gives you anything. Even if he's pleased or friendly, and you founded his state religion, he's so stingy he won't give you 20 gold if you ask him. Churchill sucks.

Mehmed II, that guy bugs me. Every game he's in he is in the most aggravating spot for me to get to so he lives far longer then he should, gets better field position then randomly shows up and starts pillaging me to the stone age, @#$%er. I hate that friggin guy, Monty, Alex, Izzy, etc. I can deal with mianly because I just ramp up for war with them the same turn I meet them.

Cyrus defiantly, hes the worst extrortionist out there, will not trade techs unless hes gaining an alomst double value at times, if he will trade at all! ive noticed he tends to like to hoard his techs.

Agree: Issy, Monty, Toku are annoying.

However, Freddy is pretty annoying because he will rarely trade techs unless it's HEAVILY in his favour (I find Cyrus to be less like this than Freddy).

But, for me, by FAR my most hated enemy, who I hate and kill without prejudice is Louis. SO many times when I started playing civ, I had him as a neighbour and worked to befriend him since I figured he wasn't an aggressive civ. Then, even though he was pleased with me, had no negative modifiers, etc., he would backstab me and wreck my games when I had plans on attacking someone else, etc. (who would often dogpile because I had been accumulating negative modifiers with them while thinking I had a "friend").

Lately, Shaka. I play with Blake's AI, and Shaka has developed a penchant for the early SoD approach. In the last 3 games of mine that he has been in:

1) Monarch (nearest neighbor) - wiped me out after attacking me with 2 stacks of 6 archers

2) Monarch (nearest neighbor) - he was on a peninsula with me between him and everyone else; he tried the Archer SoD approach again. I sent them packing but he kept sending more. I took two cities but he refused to accept peace. I quit the game after we both had Ironworking and iron was revealed under his capitol (I had pillaged his copper, but couldn't maintain the troops to ever take his capitol). We were so far behind the other 13 AI in techs and cities that there was no point.

3) Prince (current game) - Shaka, Brennus, Monty, Ragnar and I (Churchill) all start on an hourglass shaped continent. I am in the lower left, Shaka in the upper right, Monty's in the middle. My nearest neighbor is Ragnar and there is a 6 tile belt of Jungle below Monty and above Ragnar and I. In the space of 10 turns (Marathon), I see that Brennus has died (I hadn't met him yet, but Shaka took him out); Monty founds Judaism; Shaka declares war on Monty. 10 turns after that Monty joins Brennus in the discard pile. I take out Ragnar. Shaka and I become best friends as the only remaining hebrew nations on the planet. Shaka is comfortably atop the scoreboard, leading in cities, land and tech.

I had to wait until Grenadiers and Cannon to turn on him: I switched to Buddhism (the dominant religion elsewhere), captured the Hebrew shrine (complete with Grocer, Market, and Stock Exchange!) and knocked him off the leader board. I took 5 cities, 3 of which were size 16+, and he still comes in a close 2nd in land and population.

Of course, the biggest shock of all came two turns after I switched to Buddhism: Isabella (the Buddhist founder) declares war on me from the far side of the world and lands 3 Conquistador's next to Nidaros! They apparently hadn't gotten word of my conversion :lol:

^^^ROFL. That's CRAZY about Shaka, lol. I haven't had problems with him yet :)

Monty (I have been on another continent and he has attacked me) and Mehmed (gets a spot I want) always seem to be a pain in my side. Issy always attacks my vassals. A lot of this has to do with what civs you play with and how you choose your So if you always play the same way, you will get the same results.

As for Shaka, he can be a tricky one. I was playing a OCC on deity level, small map. I successful took out Monty, and helped him take out Gandi. I was two pieces away from a space ship win, when Shaka declared war on Sal two out two of his cities and had the votes for a diplomatic win. (I should have saw this coming when he used the UN to vote me out of Bureaucracy and Representation). This is the only time I have seen an AI win a diplomatic victory

Cyrus defiantly, hes the worst extrortionist out there, will not trade techs unless hes gaining an alomst double value at times, if he will trade at all! ive noticed he tends to like to hoard his techs. Glad to see I'm not the only one who loathes Cyrus. GOD I hate that guy -- he always beats me to the prime city locations. I don't know if he's any different in Warlords, but that Cre/Exp combo in vanilla makes his civilization grow like the fungus he is!

Funnily, I've never had problems with Monty or Toku, although Toku's refusal to open borders can be a pain. Izzy is another story -- she's got permanent PMS, I think. :lol: As for Louis, I quite like it when he's in the game; I take great pleasure in antagonizing him until he finally declares war, thus allowing me to crush his puny civilization off the map w/o any negative diplomatic penalties from his friends.

George Washington can also be a real pain in the butt, at least in vanilla (that Fin/Org combo is sickening!) -- if left to his own devices, GW can become a bigger tech monster than Mansa Musa.

Any faction played by the AI.

They will beg for techs even when they have more than enough techs to make a fair deal, but they don't want to start trading it yet, or they only offer a tech when I'm a few techs away from getting it myself. the only ones that don't aggfravate me are the ones that are already dead...

I'd have to say:

1. Mansa of Mali. They breed like rabbits and you can't wipe them out that easily. They're like bloody cockroaches.

2. Capac of Inca. He's one arrogant SOB and always demands techs without even offering a lousy 1 gold piece for them. This ain't a welfare state, buddy.

3. Both Indian leaders. For some reason they're always snarking me off for one reason for another. I've made it a point to squash them as rapidly as I can.

I always seem to have trouble with the Russians, and especially Catherine. ("Sentries have come in from the hill, sir.... They report Cossacks to the southeast. Thousands of them."). ;)

My biggest problems are with the "inscrutable" civs-- the ones that you can't really trust no matter how well (or badly) things are going. For instance, playing with Izzy and Monty is easy; plan for war, strike first if you can, and get over any qualms you may have about genocide in a computer game. Previously, the worst leader for this was Alexander, as every time he was on a border, it was one long wait for the backstab that may never come. (And waiting to see if trader Alex was going to show up this game or not.) My new nemesis would have to be Ragnar, then, because he seems to change from game to game. He's not enough of a jerk to wipe out immediately, but he'll rarely join you in war-- unless, I guess, you're making war a priority, and can get the "mutual struggle" bonus. Trading is also erratic, and he seems to always be in the good graces of my next target, leading to hesitation on whether to attack or not. Thoroughly annoying . . .

I have issues with Chairman Mao. In back-to-back prince games he has attacked me for no reason in the ancient times. I'm still trying to come back in the second game, because after I made peace with Mao, CHURCHHILL attacked me.

I've had more games munged up by Alexander than any other leader... he is a serious backstabber. If he is anywhere nearby, I'll have at him ASAP.

Monty is also a stabber. However, IMHO Monty is easier to deal with. He backstabs too early and is not subtle. It is usually easier to beat him off.

Mansa and Ghandi. Those 2 are always a pain in the arse. I have no problems with any of the warring factions as I love to fight, but those guys that just run off teching prove to be a serious pain on emperor/immortal. I have also noticed Shaka is proving to be a powerhouse since the patch. When he impi rushes you it can be a serious hamper to your economy.

I agree, I hate Mansa and Ghandi the most. I just can't stand AI's that always try to tech past me and still have the nerve to demand free techs every few turns.

This is odd, because I just never have problems with Mansu. Really almost never. Even when he has a whole large continent to himself, so perhaps I am doing something different then everyone else.

Who I really don't like is Ghandi when he is un-checked, and Rosevelt. Ghandi in particular because he beelines for spacerace, and no one ever seems to want to attack him, no matter how weak he is.

I have issues with Chairman Mao. In back-to-back prince games he has attacked me for no reason in the ancient times. I'm still trying to come back in the second game, because after I made peace with Mao, CHURCHHILL attacked me.

I have a problem with the other chinese leader, Qin Shi Huang. I find him incredibly annoying. Begs techs then backstabs me without reasons. And he always seems to found taoism (which I like to get thank you very much) or confucianism, then convert and pull half the ai's with and make them hostile to me. Everytime I see him I get these voice flashbacks from Black and White whispering in my head: "Death...death...death... :mad: :nuke:

hatshepsut

In every game she is buddist and is always winning by a land slide

But Really Isabella, when i try to go for Cultural Victory she will always send in ehr mighty Navy to Kill me >_<

I always gun for Shaka, He's just to snobby. Or maybe It's because I can't stand his diplo music.

I dont see how Isabella could ever be a problem. She just is so unfriendly to everyone, that she always remains a runt. And when she fights, she usualy doesn't get very far, and ends up remaining as a runt for the entire game, always behind in tech, etc.

Her UU is an upgraded knight... that's ok and all, but by the time she gets there, she is already a runt.

I love having Gandhi in the game. He just screams "Invade me! Invade me! Take my beautiful juicy lands! I won't put up a fight!". And his UU means you always get some beautifully manicured lands out of him too.
Whereas Mansa has those confounded skirmishers, and puts cities everywhere.....

The Zulus.

I've had an eternal vendetta against them since my Test of Time days.

Can't wait to get Warlords so I can kick their ass again.

I love having Gandhi in the game. He just screams "Invade me! Invade me! Take my beautiful juicy lands! I won't put up a fight!". And his UU means you always get some beautifully manicured lands out of him too.
Whereas Mansa has those confounded skirmishers, and puts cities everywhere.....

lol so true, and if you leave him be he will be your friend forever +)

Hannibal always ruins my games. He techs like crazy, always choosing the same path
as I do (education/liberalism). Even when he is losing he manages to screw me. One
game he was hemmed in by Ragnar and I just beat him to liberalism, getting nationalism
and beelining for cavalries to invade Ragnar who has a large military but backward technologically.
Well what do you know, Hannibal became a vasal of Ragnar and all of a
sudden his horse archers became cavalries *before* I got them. Ragnar promptly
destroyed me.

This is odd, because I just never have problems with Mansu. Really almost never. Even when he has a whole large continent to himself, so perhaps I am doing something different then everyone else.

Who I really don't like is Ghandi when he is un-checked, and Rosevelt. Ghandi in particular because he beelines for spacerace, and no one ever seems to want to attack him, no matter how weak he is.

same for me except that I most often bribe a few nuts to attack india.

It's really interesting to see how everyones games differ. For example, in BetterAI thread someone said that he never gets war declarations from overseas and it needs some emphasis.. i get those all the time, constantly and all over.

My NRO 1. enemy is usually Mansa, if he's in the game. I think i basically understand why he's able to tech so fast (financial + mint) and he's a powerhouse when playing as Mali, but still sometimes in AI's hand's he just runs away.. even with 1/4th size empire than others he still keeps up with tech race.

I dont see how Isabella could ever be a problem. She just is so unfriendly to everyone, that she always remains a runt. And when she fights, she usualy doesn't get very far, and ends up remaining as a runt for the entire game, always behind in tech, etc.

Her UU is an upgraded knight... that's ok and all, but by the time she gets there, she is already a runt.

In one of my vanilla Civ IV games, Isabella didn't look too strong, but when Montezuma declared war on me, she entered the fray against him and a horde of those upgraded knights torched his empire before I could take more than two cities on my border.

Isabella and sometimes, Genghis. Izzy seems to always make a horde of her UU, good thing I always rush to way to Military tradition. ^_^

Napolean GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!


but i made a future/settler/duel game with him and "he ate 100 nukes" but of course i used WB to get those 100. however, i am not nearly as mad anymore

Shaka is the worst IMO, at least on Monarch or Emperor (pre patch, he's probably even a real bear now on Prince!).

The reason is that he seems to be extremely opportunistic about attacking someone with a low power rating, which will always be the human players in the early years on higher levels. The AI starts out with so many advantages and he's the AI who presses the earliest. You have a chance to catch up against the builder types, but he comes and wipes you out early.

NAPOLEON, NAPOLEON......FREAKIN NAPOLEON!!! :mad:


God I hate that guy. It doesn't matter where I am on the map, he will ALWAYS find some reason to start a war with me for no freakin reason. I hate that guy with a passion...everytime I start up a new game I send scouts out immediately to see if Napoleon is around. If he is, I negotiate Open Borders agreements with civs close to me and send massive armies over to wipe him out right away.

Catherine of Russia... SHe's always such a backstabber! In almost every game, we start out friends, and she declares war halfway through... *****...

Currently playing a Monarch game as Bismarck (Better AI). Built the Great Wall and the Pyramids. Monty (big surprise there) rolls by with big stacks of Jags/Axes . . .


and takes out Elizabeth. I guess my 2 Axemen scared him off :)

While I am researching Code of Laws, who should declare war on me, but Shaka. The war petered along for a little while, with the occassional chariot showing up to threaten my improvements, when all of a sudden I see a stack of 40+ Zulu units rolling towards my Military city! They were mostly Chariots & Archers, with a few Swords, Axes, Impi and Horse Archers thrown in for good measure). There were several smaller stacks of re-inforcements rolling along behind them. I positioned my defenders (mostly spears and axes) across a range of 3 hills and let him beat himself bloody. Over the next 8 turns, Shaka lost close to 60 units and I gained 2 Great Generals (go Great Wall!) and then got Mathematics from him in exchange for peace.

He's just crazy - he had to send all of those troops through Tokugowa (score/tech/land leader at the time) just to get to me.

I love it when Monty is in the game. I will try to stay on his good side for long enough to spread the world's minority religion to all of this cities. At the same time, I am spreading my religion to all of Monty's neighbors. It makes a multi-front war against Monty possible without much bribing.

In my current game, Toku is actually friendly with me. I still can't get Open Borders or anything else from him, but we are actually on good terms. Same religion and he asked me to war with the Chinese, I went along with it (I was already prepping for a war with China). I am going to see how far I can milk this relationship before I "need" his land.

Monty is also a stabber. However, IMHO Monty is easier to deal with. He backstabs too early and is not subtle. It is usually easier to beat him off.

I'm glad you can appease Montezuma but really, too much information.

Anyway, Montezuma is always terrible for me. My last three games straight he has declared war on me. In the first we were good friends for a long while and shared a religion, and eventually he decided to do away with me. Second game we were on the same continent but not bordered, and he marched across the continent to war with me. Third game he is on a different damn continent and he randomly starts demanding free stuff, which I refuse, and he declares war on my from across the ocean.

Montezuma, I loathe you.

The Spanish ussualy attack me for no reason. And if im not perpared with a good unit by the Mdival Era her Conqstador is hard to beat. I ussualy over come by upgrading some spears and makeing some pikes :)

In warlords, its hannibal, in the original civ4 its Montazuma

hey not trying to hijack the thread, but isnt the correct name; MoCtezuma ? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And oh, I hate Louis the 14th.