Do you want improved graphics for the next expansion of Civ4 (assuming there is one)? Like the sun reflecting on the water, shining effects on armors, glowing effects, new creatures walking/swimming on the map, etc...

Hell no ... the game is a resource hog already. No need to worsen the situation by piling up even more unnecessary glitz.

Any game feels better when the time was taken to implement the small details like the sun shining on the water or reflected off armor. Does this make or break a game? No. I would bet most people who owned CivI would still install it on their computer and enjoy a good game just as much as they would on Civ4.

Just my 2¢

Whats with the bannanas? If you mean do I like the way the lil' bannanas fall ever so neatly into a basket then.... NO!!!

Those lil bannanas cost me max Civs on huge maps modern age, so why would I want more???

Now papayas? Those would be cool :)

Whats with the bannanas? If you mean do I like the way the lil' bannanas fall ever so neatly into a basket then.... NO!!!

The banana thingy is a joke. No clue where it comes from though, if you have an idea please fill us in...

Those lil bannanas cost me max Civs on huge maps modern age, so why would I want more???

huh?

huh?

He's saying that he cannot play with the maximum number of civs on huge maps because the game wastes the computer's resources for unnecessary animations like bananas falling in baskets (map animation for harvested banana resource). He'd rather be able to have larger maps and/or more players instead of more animations (which, if they use up even more resources, would force him to play with even less rivals).

More bananas, definitely more bananas.


I think that it should be a guideline followed by game manufacturers that all future expansion packs should have the same system requirements as the core game. If someone is able to play Vanilla Civ IV, then they shouldn't have to worry about being able to play future expansions - expansion packs are enought of a cash-hog as it is. I personally wouldn't mind, as I am sure my graphics card and CPU could handle it - but it would not be a good idea.


And so I say again... bananas.

He's saying that he cannot play with the maximum number of civs on huge maps because the game wastes the computer's resources for unnecessary animations like bananas falling in baskets (map animation for harvested banana resource). He'd rather be able to have larger maps and/or more players instead of more animations (which, if they use up even more resources, would force him to play with even less rivals).

Well if he says that, I don't think the animations that are not displayed on screen don't take any ressource...

Well if he says that, I don't think the animations that are not displayed on screen don't take any ressource...

If you mean what you said, then you're right in not believing that they don't take up resources, but I fear you meant the opposite and just accidentally used a double negative.

Apparently you weren't here when the game was released, because this was a hotly debated issue back then. :)

If you don't believe me, just design a small bare map and a huge map with many units in the worldbuilder (so that you have many graphics). Give the player on each map exactly the same visible area. Then load both setups and try to play. You'll notice that the small map will react smoothly, while the huge map will have stuttering movement and slow reaction times. The reason is that the graphics, even if they are not shown at the moment, use up a lot of the resources.

I wouldn't want more demanding ("better") graphics, just different. At first I didn't mind the cartoonish character of the game but it becomes kind of grating. Although I wouldn't want changes in the next expansion, that would not be good and proper.

Bring me back 2-D graphics of Civ 3!

Thread moved to Civ - Ideas & Suggestions.

:aargh: I want to dominate the world, not stare at reflections of the sun on water or armor.

:aargh: I want to dominate the world, not stare at reflections of the sun on water or armor.
Agreed, I just want to play the game. Not admire the bells and wistles.

If you don't believe me, just design a small bare map and a huge map with many units in the worldbuilder (so that you have many graphics). Give the player on each map exactly the same visible area. Then load both setups and try to play. You'll notice that the small map will react smoothly, while the huge map will have stuttering movement and slow reaction times. The reason is that the graphics, even if they are not shown at the moment, use up a lot of the resources.

It might be because of the size of the map?

:aargh: I want to dominate the world, not stare at reflections of the sun on water or armor.

Graphics can add to environment and gameplay.

I think Civ4 can do a good ode to Mother Nature. After all we have a smooth representation of the world, why not to take benefit from it more deeply? Not only this would go along the concept of global warming, but it could raise new interests in the minds of the players, like it already did in mine for History. (by trying to find new concepts to the game) Last, it would be of course very nice to see.

Plus, if you add some graphic elements, like migrating animals, you can make it a new action, like capturing them and so create a new single-use unit that will create a farm anywhere you want. Of course migrating animals would be pretty rare and may not reappear in the nature once killed, unless maybe in dark zones.

A graphic improvement could be that Cities and village and town improvements reflect the ammount of cultural dominance. A roman style town bordering on chinese would be a fusion between the two cultures. Thus you can see when a city is suffering culturally by looking at the actual buildings. This is probably moddable but would take alot of different city improvement graphic sets and I can't be bothered.

I think a more organic feel would be created. I also think that Towns surrounding cities should merge more with the main city to make them look like conurbations.

Also, I think unit skin colour should be determined by the ethinicity counter within the city. Therefore an English city captured by the Zulus would churn out white Impis to begin with that will gradually turn mixed race to African and vica versa. Again perfectly possible but would requires loads of graphics and tons of XML infos for each unit.

I like the skin color idea. About the cottages mixing with the cities, I think this is already the case. To say all, I don't know how this could be done better, particularly in modern age. Indeed, the houses of the cottages are the same than the houses of the cities. As to your first idea, I personnally do not take attention to the buildings in the city, so I can't say.

I wouldn't want more demanding ("better") graphics, just different. At first I didn't mind the cartoonish character of the game but it becomes kind of grating. Although I wouldn't want changes in the next expansion, that would not be good and proper.

I didn't like the stylized leaderheads either.

I didn't like the stylized leaderheads either.
Neather do I. The importance is in the gameplay, not graphics.

:) I'd like to see more animation to all tipe of solders in original Civ. 4 ore Warlords, also expect to see unexpected death from them, for example, some sickness in the woods ore jungle etc. Mabby in Civ. 5 !

I think Civ4 was a good step towards the 3d gameplay, but face it, it's clearcut ugly compared to present standards. They don't have to add water and lighting enhancements, but they should really do a makeover for the interface and menus. The tiling is okay, but surely there must be a better way.

More banana's!! (better graphics)

Because of the nature of Civ4, better graphics would have to be insanely optimised if today's computers were to handle them, especially when considering that even a top-of-the-line computer of today has a hard time with huge terra maps in the late game. That, and there's not much of a point in improving the graphics -- they're good enough so that they don't get in the way of gameplay. Personally, I prefer Civ4 graphics over Civ3's, but super graphics would just be unnecessary.

Because of the nature of Civ4, better graphics would have to be insanely optimised if today's computers were to handle them, especially when considering that even a top-of-the-line computer of today has a hard time with huge terra maps in the late game. That, and there's not much of a point in improving the graphics -- they're good enough so that they don't get in the way of gameplay. Personally, I prefer Civ4 graphics over Civ3's, but super graphics would just be unnecessary.

Super graphics ARE necessary. The way *I* see them at least. You should think the same if you read my descriptions above. I will not begin over.

Personally I find that CIV graphics are neither here nor there. I assume this stems from a conflict of 'traditionalists' and 'eye-candy' fractions. The result is pretty ugly.
I don't know who thinks that CIV graphics are eye-candy.

Leaders are cartoonish, maps are very cluttered, the interface is horrible. Though Civ3 graphics are out of date obviously, they are still more easy to the eyes (if gameplay is concerned). I remember someone posting a screenshot of some sort of mystical setup, those graphics were awesome. This is what we would need for CIV.
And less animations please, they only make the game laggy and painful.

Im obviously insane, and also I don't like computer games a lot, but I find Civ 4 graphics beautiful. I like the fun leaderheads, well, exept some like Victoria as shehas been made into a square faced hog. She was actually pleasent looking in reality, and it adds to a missunderstanding about her. Yet, all other leaderheads are okay. Graphic wize I like the technocolour look of the game. It's liek a 50s history movie. And tyet I believe the game could look better.- A lot better. And it should really be optimized somehow, because I like playing full settings, but it's annoying to conquer Mongolia taking 30 min to scroll from one edge of the map to the other.

Super graphics ARE necessary. The way *I* see them at least. You should think the same if you read my descriptions above. I will not begin over.

Mainly I think that the super graphic's aren't necessary is because the gains of immersion into the game are completely overridden by the laggish hell that would arise.

I don't think glowing effects, sun reflections and all would influence the speed of the game... unless your computer *graphic part* can't handle it of course... but that's not about that... what you describe is more concerned by huge maps than by graphics IMO... well I don't know how this works exactly, but I figure that if the game is slow with big maps, this is because the AI have to take into account every tiles.

I don't think glowing effects, sun reflections and all would influence the speed of the game... unless your computer *graphic part* can't handle it of course... but that's not about that... what you describe is more concerned by huge maps than by graphics IMO... well I don't know how this works exactly, but I figure that if the game is slow with big maps, this is because the AI have to take into account every tiles.

If this were true, then the lag would appear *between* turns, when the AI is processing. There is however a substantial lag *within* the player turn (choppy scrolling, slow unit response time etc.), which can only be attributed to graphics processing.

Glowing effects and sun reflections would further contribute to graphics workload, and hence lead to even more lag within player turns, which in turn would require even more players to play on smaller maps than they would want to. Unnecessary bling like sun reflections is certainly not worth frustrating these players even more.

Anyway, I'm just repeating what I already said ... seeing that you still think that more graphics wouldn't produce more lag, I doubt that you'll change your mind this time, or follow my advice to test it yourself this time. But I just don't see any basis for your assumptions aside from the fact that you obviously *want* them to be true.

I would like updates that are actually usefull to the game you know, not just graphics updates they will kill my computer:gripe:

Psyringe I'm only expressing a doubt, even if this may not be the best matter of discussion.

I trust you when you say the map is slowing down during the player's turn, but I (still, yes) believe that it is due to the AI processing: the AI part I'm talking about is the units pathfinding. You will say it does not slow down only when you move a unit, but maybe the AI pathfinding program is always running?

I do not know anything to programmation, but I don't think it is more logical to think the graphics are slowing down the whole game than something like the pathfinding.

Again, only a (persistent ;) ) doubt there, I'm awaiting for further confirmation maybe.

except it also lags when scrolling on large maps -- that has to be the graphics.

I trust you when you say the map is slowing down during the player's turn, but I (still, yes) believe that it is due to the AI processing: the AI part I'm talking about is the units pathfinding. You will say it does not slow down only when you move a unit, but maybe the AI pathfinding program is always running?

The AI of Civ4 (including its pathfinding) is processing in between turns, not during the player's turn. It's certainly possible to program an AI to process during the player's turn, actually this is a very good idea, because usually the CPU has lots of free capacity while just waiting on player input. However, this isn't easy to program, and almost all games, Civ4 included, take the more traditional route to implement AI processing as a between-turns activity. (So far, GalCiv2 is the only game I know of that went the other route.)

As I repeatedly said, nothing beats testing things yourself. Just try it. Build a map large enough that you start to experience lags in your turn when you set all graphical options to "high". Then set the graphics options to "low" and see the lag go away (on the same map, same size, same savegame, same everything apart from the graphics). Then try to explain how it could be something else than the graphics which are responsible for the lag.

Then try to explain how it could be something else than the graphics which are responsible for the lag.

Considering all what you say for fact; and that's what I'm doing actually! :king:

Btw by AI i meant also the pathfindings calculations when you move one of YOUR units. Maybe some kind of matrix has to be there always even if no unit moved, like the conciousness of the borders and civs territories. Now if you raise graphic details, it will for sure be slower, and you lower them, it will be faster.

Sorry OP, I missed where you adressed me earlier in the thread....

Nakuduamem @ lets check your logic. your saying that its not the Engine that slows Civ4 rather its the persons computer not being up to par. Also You say its more the AI's thinking that makes the lagging and horrible reponse near end game large maps, not the engine's animated resources, sun refelections, leaves blowing in terrain etc.

Again, choice of the map size I pick leads to my woes not the animated extras like bannas I mentioned symbolize whats overdone and did in CIv4's smooth gameplay (sorry that bannana metaphor confused you.Thanks Psyringe for explaining what I meant exactly :) ).

OK fine,Thats your thinking. Mybe your wrong and you don't like to relent to save face. Thats typical, but you see where my thinking lies? The more land you play on, the more useless animations you get to watch, the more lag and awful response that follows as a direct result of this. So why say it the map size not the animations that cause the problems CAnt you see its correlated?


Also.. about all the people you say can play CIv4 on any size maps, unresticted from all available variables and enjoying smooth gameplay. WHere are they ? IM sure The communty would like to hear from these people. To hear first hand what specs allowed them this luxery, so we can go and spend the extra few hundred.

Heck, Why not? You think some of us woudn;t have bought the tools if we new they would have made the differance you claim? many of us have already spent hundreds ontop of our thousand doller base systems cost, Whats a few more bills to get smooth uninterupted lag-less gameplay, what you say is normal for those who don't have crap computers :)

Mind you most these systems were already above recamended specs for playing the game in the first place. The problem lies deep in the core of the game. Whats true is no amount of cash will get you the response your craving from past expeiences with Civ games. You have to see that man and let go the everybody has a bad computer theory

<snip>.

1) you stink
2) you suck
3) what you say stink & suck

come on i have a little song for you to sing:

I stink!
I suck!
what i say stink & suck!
woohooo!!!

Flaming - warned.

:)

I'd like to see more leaders even if it's just artwork, so the modders could use them. For example, like the Sid leaderhead. That way, modders that have more leaders wouldn't have to use identical twins in different clothing.

I want to be able to scroll out farther on my large monitor, without switching to "globe view" where all details are lost.

Indeed, with larger display it would be nice to be able to zoom out a bit - I would prefer retaining the default perspective while zooming to about twice the distance.

Well it really depends. Is this with my current computer? Or do we assume that I have a computer that can handle it.

If the former then I want 2-d back, if the latter then I want the best graphics possible especialy for the diplomacy screens/leaderheads.

I voted for a new expansion in 2d (best would be the existing Civ 3graphic engine). The reasons: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5007737&postcount=17

<snip>.

1) you stink
2) you suck
3) what you say stink & suck

come on i have a little song for you to sing:

I stink!
I suck!
what i say stink & suck!
woohooo!!!

Flaming - warned.

:)

Hey! how does this tell me anything in response to the serious questions I posed?, Isn't this kinda immature response and Wow this mod was very selective in what they chose to delete. :confused:

UPDATE: OH I see excuse my doubt about weather the moderator was ignoring obvious flamage. It seems this guy was despratly tamparing with his post 6 days afters posting it:goodjob:

God Ive seen some unscrupulous tactics? but why in the world do something like that?(keep reaching back) :sad:I thought that sparkling bit of spam in verse you penned was enjoyed to much by the Mods to be junked, like the rest of your marvaleous trolling exhibit was. Hopefully I was wrong and it was a late edition !

oh, i saw the word "troll" in your post: is it aimed at me? where do i troll?

At least I see that you are more direct, and one can understand better your thinking: it is good to UNLEASH such a hate man, keeping all this in yourself is never good you know.

Civ3 graphics please.. anything else is pandering to the really cool guys who cant look beyond "shiney things" to the game beyond.