Deity Warmongers [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

I. Larkin

Dec 20, 2006, 10:41 AM

1. No tribute = suicide at Deity

2. You are going to fall behind in tech on Deity. The key is to climb out of the hole.

3. You probably are not going to even be able to get close to making a dent on a AA AI civ in a war. Their production bonuses are just too much to overcome early in the game. Plan on a MA war against the weakest nearby AI.

4. Don't even think about trying for a wonder at Deity. All you are going to do is eat a lot of shields. Capture the wonders you need. For example, capturing the Great Library when the AI are in the IA is an amazing tactic (See the Sid Vicious game for a good example)

5. Civs - Don't even consider a Civ that has a AA UU. It will be worthwhile for about three turns and then it will be obsolete. You probably want to have an offensive UU. Swiss mercs are nice, but you aren't going to capture many cities with them. My personnel favorites are the cav replacements -- Cossacks and Sipahi. Yeah, Russia is a hard civ to win with , but the cossack is nice. The rider is also great but figure it will be going up against cavs. Plus the detour to chivalry isn't the best way to get to the IA.

Just for discussion...
1. I'd not put things that strong. Sombody try Sid this mode and survive. But it is 50% chanse to loose may be.
2. Well, if sling will work (Just Phylo + MM, say) it is OK. Than early libs keep Tech parity. Even without sling "borrow money" tacktics and research Literature, say, may give parity at Sci Civ.
3. Good point. I also use "Dog pit" for strongest remote AI. It make close AIs friendly to me.
4. Sometimes GLIB or Lighthouse with prebuild or SoZ (Ivory monopoly) may work. But general rule "not to build GW" is OK.
5. AA UU is good sometimes. But I think optimal is Knight's replacement.

Nitfan

Dec 20, 2006, 08:13 PM

Everytime I've tried to go with a builder strategy and get the great library some obnoxious AI neighbor will always demand literature. I've been able to get the GL by refusing to give away lit, but then half my empire got mowed down before I could sue for peace.

I'd like to give a go at pointy stick research with this game so the GL is one I think we should bypass. I'm thinking about adding Japan to round out the 5civs to choose from. I haven't played them more than once or twice, any comments on them?

Hopefully some of the people on the fence are getting itchy to play and upgrade to definites soon:goodjob: .

glenmetz

Dec 20, 2006, 08:23 PM

Japan=Samurai=:woohoo:

nerovats

Dec 21, 2006, 03:43 AM

Samurai just have 1 more defensive point, which I think is not that usefull. They also don't need horses which might help if there are none. Strongest knight replacement would be the war elephant, requires no resources and acts like a 5.4.2 unit because of the extra HP, but india is not militaristic.

Nitfan

Dec 21, 2006, 11:33 AM

I agree those jumbos are quite nice. I've played India quite a bit before but usually played them as a builder civ which is kind of weird since they do have a good UU for it.

I was one of those players that took way too long to realize that bumping off your neighbor and taking all his land/resources early in the game is the way to do it.

I had said I would prefer a militaristic civ just because I don't usually play them but we already have ottomans on the list so I have no problem adding India or another civ. Whatever the team decides(when we finally fill it out) is fine with me, you can warmonger with 'em all.

Whomp

Dec 26, 2006, 11:31 AM

I'm not sure I have the time for this right now but I would concur with a lot of what's been said here. I'm playing a deity small pangea right now as Ottos without any bonus food tiles around the capital, only two native luxs, no iron or salt. I'm just getting to the point where I'll be getting pointy stick MT for free, will turn off research and buy salt for that final push.

If you want a tough warmongering game I suggest playing a pangea map. You'll get all the fighting you want.

Abaddon

Dec 29, 2006, 03:05 PM

-not signing in.. but lurkin away.. :goodluck:

Smart

Jan 05, 2007, 02:52 PM

What's up with this game?

Nitfan

Jan 08, 2007, 03:15 PM

I'm still waiting on a couple more players to join. When I get them we will vote on a civ and get things rolling...Hoping to get some responses soon.

In hopes of generating more interest I picked the civ and rolled starts.

Map: Large, Continents, 70% H20, 5 billion years, Wet, Temperate
Level: Deity
VC: Conquest
Barbs: Roaming
Civ: Ottomans

This is going to more or less be a regular game of civ with little variation just to help some players get better at Deity or for the better players a chance to do some teaching.

Here are the two best starts I got, the other 3 were terrible..

Nitfan

Jan 08, 2007, 03:18 PM

I must be doing something wrong I can't upload the screenshots. There's probably a link to a FAQ page or if someone can give me directions I'll post them.

Nitfan

Jan 08, 2007, 03:26 PM

I think I got it figured out, I had to convert them to jpeg to get under the size limit...

glenmetz

Jan 08, 2007, 05:04 PM

1, unless the Settler is standing on a Beegee

Nitfan

Jan 10, 2007, 12:38 PM

I was thinking the same thing. And the settler is not on a BG.

I. Larkin

Jan 12, 2007, 12:10 PM

OK, I am back. Both positions look approximately good.
Who play?

Nitfan

Jan 12, 2007, 12:29 PM

Right now the roster is

glenmetz
I. Larkin
NitFan

I'm going to PM nerovats to see if he'll join up since he said if we were short he'd help us out.

Hopefully we can pick up another if not we'll just play with 4, but I think the more the merrier.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 12, 2007, 02:48 PM

I've never played a succession game, but I've played and beaten deity and sid... so what the heck.

Why don't we make it a try at a conquest game? I think it's maybe dangerous to have too much early war, but we can maybe do a limited war against someone near by to gain a city or two.

Nitfan

Jan 20, 2007, 04:36 PM

Hey guys right now we have 4, and I pm'd nerovats so hopefully he'll join up since we're one short. Does anybody just want to get started in the mean time with four. I think the more the better but we could play with four. I'll do the first 20 turns and post them, then we'll use this order.

1. Nitfan
2. I. Larkin
3. Automated Teller
4. Glenmetz
5. Open

AutomatedTeller

Jan 20, 2007, 08:06 PM

works for me.

nerovats

Jan 21, 2007, 01:13 AM

Got Niftans PM, I'll join, my other SG's are nearing completion, so should have time. Looks like you got some great starting positions.

glenmetz

Jan 21, 2007, 09:24 AM

Alright, lets boogie.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 21, 2007, 11:14 AM

I assume we are going for pottery first - are we going to try to self-research? or buy techs? The slingshot seems to be a long shot. Pottery at 100%, then 0% and buy the rest of the starting techs and writing? what do you guys think?

Nitfan

Jan 22, 2007, 04:18 AM

I'll agree with pottery at 100%, we need to get contacts asap and try to get alphabet. Usually if you can go straight to math you have a decent shot at it. Other option would be to research IW since we start with BW and then try to trade it. Assuming we aren't going to build the GL I think we should stay on the top of the tech tree or try to get republic asap whether we're the first to it or not.

What are everyone elses thoughts?

nerovats

Jan 22, 2007, 04:28 AM

I usually don't do 0% from start, so that should be interesting for me.

Nitfan

Jan 22, 2007, 02:57 PM

4000BC – Settle in place, worker to cow, pottery at 100%, Istanbul warrior in 5

3950BC – worker starts irrigation

3900BC – zzz

3850BC – zzz

3800BC – worker starts road

3750BC – Istanbul completes warrior, starts on second

3700BC – Istanbul grows, worker finishes road, moves to BG next to river

3650BC – worker starts mine

3600BC – zzz, pottery in 12

3550BC – second warrior complete, send to the top of the hill W of the cattle to check things out for a second city, I like what I see so Istanbul starts on settler

3500BC – Borders expand, this is looking like a real nice start guys

3450BC – Istanbul grows, MM laborer to other river BG, Growth in 5, settler in 5, worker starts road

3400BC – zzzz

3350BC – worker finishes road, I can’t decide where I want to put the second city there are two real nice spots so this is more or less a toss up at this point, move worker to other side of the river

3300BC – zzzz, worker mines

3250BC – zzzz

3200BC – settler complete, contact with Carthage, Istanbul set to warrior then going to granary. Hannibal has alphabet and CB, won’t trade either obviously

3150BC – settler and warrior prod on to their new home, pottery in 1, science down to 70%, +2 gpt

3100BC – warrior moves to the hill to get a better view, settler goes to intended city location, alphabet at 10% sci. Hannibal has no interest in our new found technology.

3050BC – Edrine founded starts warrior, Istanbul completes warrior and starts granary so we can get all these beautiful city locations filled up

3000BC – end of my run, let’s do 20 turns for the first turn set and we’ll decrease as we go.

I'd like everyone's opinion on where I put the second city. I thought about either going on the hill E of Edrine or out to the coast, but couldn't make my mind up after 20 minutes of debate. Based on our map position I decided it was best to expand N since that is where Carthage was, and we can fill in behind us later.

1. Nitfan
2. I. Larkin - Up
3. Automated Teller - On deck
4. Glenmetz - Double deck
5. Nerovats

Nitfan

Jan 22, 2007, 03:03 PM

I forgot to attach the save..

AutomatedTeller

Jan 22, 2007, 03:14 PM

I'd think we'd either do Iron Working right off, or cut off research. We'll be buying alphabet long before we get it with 50 turn research, so I'm thinking that any beakers we put into it will be useless. In fact, turning off research completely probably makes sense. Do we want to run F10 to find out who our opponents are? Or just wait and see?

btw - I think that Edrine is in a fine spot. It's going to be a high shield city at size 12 (6 hills, 7 if we want to steal one from the capitol, a bunch of bg's... looks like a good spot for a FP later. Prime military base ;)

Nitfan

Jan 22, 2007, 06:23 PM

I think I agree with you now about doing IW instead of alphabet at 10%. Especially since we're next to carthage we won't be able to do anything against their UU with archers. Luckily we only put two turns into alphabet so it's not too big of a deal to switch. What does everyone else think?

We have a lot of hills around us so I'd say we have a pretty good shot at landing some iron.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 22, 2007, 06:57 PM

carthage. well, I guess it's not as bad as germany or zulu. Course, if a carthaginian warrior wanders by at turn 10, they are pretty close.

SimpleMonkey

Jan 23, 2007, 05:44 AM

Good start so far, gentlemen. IW for this type of game makes sense, as you're not going to have anything that the AI will trade for until the MA, likely. Carthage does not seem like a good candidate for pointy stick research.

Any thought to putting city #3 on the river delta by the big water (on the north bank, natch)? You'll need Alphabet fairly soon to start sailing some dinky boats for contacts, even if all the other civs are going to be laughing at you for a while.

glenmetz

Jan 23, 2007, 06:52 AM

I say lets get IW in ASAP, get some more cities built, connect a source of Iron, and put some heat on Carthage.

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 07:18 AM

I downloaded File, but cant open it with Civassist2. Don't know if its will open with C3C.

glenmetz

Jan 23, 2007, 07:27 AM

Standard rules from GOTM and 24/72 playing rules, C3C only.

One would hope it would open in C3C

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 08:02 AM

Before I come home and play, let discuss things.
I disagree with Automated Teller, and SimpleMonkey that zero research or 10% IW is a good idea.
At Deity Techs are more expensive to buy. I think research Alpha at Maximum and trade if we meet 2 Civs with Alpha. And go to sling Writing-> Phylosophy -> Litrature as free tech.
Than CoL, Republic with trade Math, IW and the rest...
At Deity early war is very difficult, but fast research pays back very good. At GOTM 51 (Deity, Ottoman) 2 Cartage Cities fliped to me after I poprushed few libs.
Important question: Where Cartage warrior stay and where he go?

AutomatedTeller

Jan 23, 2007, 09:24 AM

I'm ok with 100% alpha. I mainly thought that 10% alpha didn't make sense.

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 12:50 PM

I'm ok with 100% alpha. I mainly thought that 10% alpha didn't make sense.
OK, agreed. About Second City: I think it is too close as it has 6 tiles overlap. Hills on the right would be much better. Third City, I think near our river mouth at the forest, to share Cattle with Istambul and send Curragh ASAP.
Do we want coordinate system for Cities or play "in free range"?
General plan is to have 3 warriors to block Cartage settlment.

glenmetz

Jan 23, 2007, 01:29 PM

Roll with it Larkin

nerovats

Jan 23, 2007, 02:31 PM

I'd like everyone's opinion on where I put the second city.

I would have put it 1NE as it will make a nicer ring of cities on rivers, but will work without problem.

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 02:34 PM

I would have put it 1NE as it will make a nicer ring of cities on rivers, but will work without problem.
Right, but Eastern Cities have to be more distant.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 23, 2007, 02:37 PM

Do we want coordinate system for Cities or play "in free range"?

Can you explain what thismeans? I am unfamiliary with the terms, though I assume it has to do with ways of identifying cities.

General plan is to have 3 warriors to block Cartage settlment.

I assume this means a line of warriors moving staying in front of settlers moving towards us, keeping them from getting around them and settling in our land?

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 02:45 PM

Can you explain what thismeans? I am unfamiliary with the terms, though I assume it has to do with ways of identifying cities.

Well, common practice is to draw many pictures that are so called "dot maps" where project Cities are dots of different colors. Sometimes it is confusive "violet", "magneta", "pink", "red" are close. Also, you have to have picture in front of you to understand text.

X-Y axeses are more relible, but unfortunately tiles are tiltetd at 45 degrees. That make confusion.
At CivAssist1 vertical coordinate exists (also uncomfortable) and we can use it if anybody use Civassist1.
I assume this means a line of warriors moving staying in front of settlers moving towards us, keeping them from getting around them and settling in our land?
Yes, line or cup that follow AI's Settler.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 23, 2007, 03:00 PM

I. Larkin

Jan 23, 2007, 03:27 PM

ok. I use dotmaps in my solo games - helps me remember decisions.

3rd city - I assume on the north side of the river?

Do we know who our opponents are? is this continents? reason I ask is that I have gotten the slingshot on deity in my life with civs that don't start with alpha, so it is possible. But if this is a pangea with even one expansionist civ,that's not going to happen. Not that it's likely anyway, and getting the free tech is pretty important if we can.
Yes, North of the river...
Stange thing: F10 shows nothing. And Civ assist1 as well. Is it special mode where opponents are unknown? F11 shows something, however For example India with Alpha.
Well, on Deity Republic sling normarly does not work, but straight Phylo sometimes works. The reason, that AIs research MM after Writing first.
Anyhow, Alpha is a must for sea scouting, and Phylo for Republic...

glenmetz

Jan 23, 2007, 03:44 PM

Do we really want to go for Republic instead of Monarchy in this sort of game. If we are going to be warmongers, we aren't going to build really any happiness buildings (temples/caths). The happiness bonus from MPs might come in handy, and the extra unit support as well. If we can get a Philo slingshot, maybe use it on Polytheism to get closer to Monarchy. JMHO.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 23, 2007, 04:39 PM

That is true. But republic gets us more money for research and for upgrading knights to sipahi. And Sipahi are where we will pay back Carthage for all the insults that they will have given us.

Nitfan

Jan 23, 2007, 05:34 PM

My thoughts on the research at this point is that there is absolutely no way we're gonna land philosophy first, especially since we researched pottery. This is a large continents 70% water map so the tech pace is going to be almost as fast as a pangaea map.

I was using 10% science before because the tech costs drop dramatically from the AI when you have some research in them already, and I didn't want to use a lone scientist in Edrine since we need all the population we can get. I may be wrong about that but that's what I've always noticed in games.

As far as going for Monarchy, I have never used that government unless I was religious (even then I usually just up luxuries) or playing on a low level game and screwing around.. Republic is really not that bad for war weariness if you war right with artillery and don't send your units into brickwalls. Money is power and we're going to need all of it we can get.

I spotted the carthage warrior on the hill west of Edrine. So they are up there and they are close.

gmaharriet

Jan 23, 2007, 10:31 PM

glenmetz

Jan 24, 2007, 06:45 AM

We'll also be generating a ton of money from specialist farms as well from all the lands we capture. I've never played an always war game in Republic.

nerovats

Jan 24, 2007, 08:17 AM

But must fun in SG's is playing in a style your not used to. That's the best way to learn.

I. Larkin

Jan 24, 2007, 08:22 AM

I apologize if I'm sticking my nose into somewhere it doesn't belong :blush: , but I took a look at your 3000bc save using CAII. Are you aware that Preserve Random Seed is not turned on?

If nobody cares, that's alright, but I know most SG players feel very strongly about it being turned on. At this point it would be pretty easy to extract all the settings using CAII, regenerate the map exactly as it was except for the seed setting, and then replay the first 20. It would be ever so much harder to change after several turnsets had been played.

I'm sorry if I've embarrassed anyone, and I'll go back to just lurking now.
Sorry for damm questions, but what principle difference between Random seed on/off? IIRC it is only affects RNG. Well, it is a small differences if nobody replay combat and do not reload much. I'v played 18 turns and I think it is OK to play in this mode the rest of the game. Or rest of the team want to restart? Let me know, please. BTW, I cant open saves with CAII.
Here is the save. Everybody welcome to look and coment. If we decide to continue I will write turnlog.

I. Larkin

Jan 24, 2007, 08:24 AM

We'll also be generating a ton of money from specialist farms as well from all the lands we capture. I've never played an always war game in Republic.
IIRC, we are not at AWD mode. And the best way to make conquest is to get MT ASAP, and kill them all. Republic works better for that.

I. Larkin

Jan 24, 2007, 08:51 AM

I think (if we play next) Automated Teller up. We have to discuss what research next after Alpha. (my initial thought remain the same Writing at 100%). We short of workers and other units to scout our land. Bursa will build Curraghs to scout North first. Next City near (south of) the weat, I think. (x=34, y=98).
Turnlog
20 3000 BC Turn research to 100%. Move worker to BG.
IBT 2 Cartage warriors move West of Istambul.
21 2950 BC W up hill.
IBT 2 Cartage warriors move
22 2900 BC W west.
IBT 2 Cartage warriors move + 6 at East of Istambul.
23 2850 BC W north.
IBT Cartage warriors move
24 2800 BC W see capital border. It is close, you know… Second warrior go North
IBT Cartage warriors move W-Settler pair appear.
25 2750 BC 2 Warriors try to block W-Settler pair.
IBT Cartage warriors move
26 2710 BC Partially blockade works.
IBT Cartage warriors move
27 2670 BC Third warrior go to help.
IBT Cartage warriors move
28 2630 BC Adjust Lux
IBT Cartage warriors move
29 2590 BC Granary->Settler.
IBT Cartage warriors move
30 2550 BC 3 Warriors form a moving curtain.
IBT Cartage warriors move
31 2510 BC Adjust lux again.
IBT Cartage warriors move
32 2470 BC MM Cattle to Bursa.
IBT Cartage warriors move
33 2430 BC Settler-> Settler. Lux back to 0. Cattle back to Istanbul.
IBT Cartage warriors move
34 2390 BC Adjust lux.
IBT Cartage warriors move
35 2350 BC Found Bursa. Set Spear as Curragh prebuild.
IBT Cartage warriors move
36 2310 BC See picture. It is cartage Settler at the left.
IBT Cartage warriors move
37 2270 BC Settler->Warrior. Lux back to 0.
IBT Cartage warriors move
38 2230 BC Keep Blockade W-Settler pair.
I miscalculate Bursa, probably better to get Warrior first in 2 and then Curragh with forest cut in 2 turn. Istanbul may be Worker instead of warrior.
I wonder, what’s going on behind us? Is Cartage at war with somebody? Or they met tons of barbarians? Altogether 11 warriors go there and nobody return. Also strange, that they did not get any 25 gold from Barb camps. Hope, we will find out soon.

glenmetz

Jan 24, 2007, 09:11 AM

I agree, lets get a city on that wheat. More units to scout out the eastern area would be a good idea as well, and maybe even another set of 3 to the west to bar out Carthage.

I'm fine with us getting into a Republic, but I'm also worried about happiness issues. We haven't found any luxs yet, and I'd rather not pump 30-40% of our income into Lux. Seems like a waste when it can be used to rush units, upgrades, etc....

I. Larkin

Jan 24, 2007, 09:48 AM

I agree, lets get a city on that wheat.
2) More units to scout out the eastern area would be a good idea as well, and maybe even another set of 3 to the west to bar out Carthage.

3) I'm fine with us getting into a Republic, but I'm also worried about happiness issues. We haven't found any luxs yet, and I'd rather not pump 30-40% of our income into Lux. Seems like a waste when it can be used to rush units, upgrades, etc....
1) Near the weat, not on. Is coordinates visible? White figures are X and black are Y.
2) It may be dangerous. If we block them completly, they most likely declare. Also, now they care about Barbarians behind.
3) Simple calculation shows, that large Cities generate more gold then needs for Lux at Republic.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 24, 2007, 01:23 PM

I'll play either tonight or tomorrow - also, I'll see if I can see if those warriors are promoting or not. My guess is that it's barbs - it seems pretty early for carthage to be at war with someone on the other side of us. Though I'd welcome it if they ran into bismark over there - anyone but us...

Nitfan

Jan 24, 2007, 02:24 PM

Well I usually check preserve random seed but I forgot to do it in this case when I rolled the starts. I don't see any reason to restart this we're only playing for fun, not GOTM or anything for competition. Just don't reload and it won't make a difference that it's not turned on. Nice turn set so far Larkin, that warrior blockade was a good idea.

I agree that it's probably barbs behind us I don't see how there could be another civ that close.

glenmetz

Jan 24, 2007, 04:37 PM

Yes, I meant near the Wheat. On it in a figurative sense.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 24, 2007, 05:01 PM

Lack of food bonuses are hurting us, currently, more than lack of luxuries.

Am fine with random seed off.

I agree with settling south of plains wheat on coast. Nice location, actually.

am thinking of istanbul going worker/worker/warrior/settler
Edrine going spear->worker->rax with some chops.
new city building worker right off - not worried about barbs there with huge stacks of carthaginians on barb patrol.
Will send a warrior southeast to check out the barb infested lands that carthage is clearing for us.
Bursa will send the Ottoman fleet north towards the hordes of barb galleys that hopefully won't show up for awhile.

My current thoughts are that city #5 goes E-NE-NE, right where the carthage warrior is in the screenie, unless I see something really good on the river to the SE. Unless you guys think we should put a city 3 NW from Edrine, on the coast there - that seems like asking for it, though.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 24, 2007, 06:08 PM

I. Larkin

Jan 25, 2007, 08:56 AM

I guess it's not yet my turn - I. Larkin still has 2 turns to go, so I will wait until he is done with his 20 ;)

I looked at the save and noticed several things:

2 barbs SE of Istanbul - Khosian and Nubian. I assume barb camps only have 1 type, so yes - I think Carthage is fighting barbs.

Carthage is up WC, Alpha and CB, plus has 35 gold, so killed a barb camp, plus has 1 more city than us. That's not bad for deity.

F11 shows Entremont at size 2, Cusco at size 5, Seol at size 3, us at size 3,
and Karakorum at size 2 - I am guessing the celts have built a temple.

We are 4th in approval, 8th in pop, 7th in GNP, 4th in mfg goods, 12 in land area (not surprising),
2 in family size, 12 in mil service, 8 in income and 8th in productivity.

Some of these are actually quite surprising.

Mil Advisor says that there are Circassian tribes near Istanbul, which makes 3 barb tribes down theat way!

Carthage is annoyed with us.

I look at the victory status screen - it looks like the only condition enabled is conquest, which explains why the space race screen doesn't work.

Also, Civ Assist II says that culture flipping is off, which gives us an advantage.
Thanks for summary, AT. (BTW, my name is Ivan, I. Larkin sounds too official).
I thought, that 20 is approximate figure, but I may play 2 turns today and submit tomorrow. Or, you may play next right now.
In addition I may add that I saw Indians and Azteks at F11 screen.
Status of barbarians explain situation with Cartage warriors.
That means, that most probably we are alone on the Island with Cartage. At my experience it is the most difficult circumstances at Deity and Sid. The trouble is that when AI have exess of MU they go to war no matter what. So, we have to think about defence now. Any good ideas? May be indeed, instead of Writing we will do IW? Also, what do you think about idea to borrow money for gpt?
It is a pity, that culture flip off. That mean, that we should not let Cartage to settle IBT our land.

I. Larkin

Jan 25, 2007, 09:16 AM

1) Lack of food bonuses are hurting us, currently, more than lack of luxuries.

2) Am fine with random seed off.

3) I agree with settling south of plains wheat on coast. Nice location, actually.

4) am thinking of istanbul going worker/worker/warrior/settler
Edrine going spear->worker->rax with some chops.
new city building worker right off - not worried about barbs there with huge stacks of carthaginians on barb patrol.

5) Will send a warrior southeast to check out the barb infested lands that carthage is clearing for us.
Bursa will send the Ottoman fleet north towards the hordes of barb galleys that hopefully won't show up for awhile.

6) My current thoughts are that city #5 goes E-NE-NE, right where the carthage warrior is in the screenie, unless I see something really good on the river to the SE. Unless you guys think we should put a city 3 NW from Edrine, on the coast there - that seems like asking for it, though.

1) Indeed...
2) Good...
3) Actually, there was no other good location...
4) Somehow disagree. I understand worker priority in general, but with Cartage face to face we have to think about how to survive in short term run. If we let them settle around us with Deity bounus they will kill us before we escape from our island. We have to build reg warriors to blockade them on their pensula, this is our chanse, I hope.
5) Warrior have to care about blockade. When second Cartage settler will appear 3 warriors are not enough. My understanding was thet first Cartage want settle at (31, 95) or (31, 97). they may change mind when we settle near weat.
6) Things depend on how sucsessful we with Cartage blockade.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 25, 2007, 11:01 AM

ok - how about edrine and new city builder warriors, while istanbul builds a few workers and goes back to settlers?

I think we need to think about research. Everything is a gambit right now:

writing should give us trading opportunities, but we have to find people.
Ironworking will give us the ability to fend off carthage... if we have iron. I think it quite unlikely that we will get to IW before carthage, though.

Why do you think we are alone on an island with carthage, as opposed to maybe just being on the end of a penisula? I would agree that there is probably no one to our south/east, at least no one near by.

I. Larkin

Jan 25, 2007, 11:29 AM

1) ok - how about edrine and new city builder warriors, while istanbul builds a few workers and goes back to settlers?

2) I think we need to think about research. Everything is a gambit right now:

writing should give us trading opportunities, but we have to find people.
Ironworking will give us the ability to fend off carthage... if we have iron. I think it quite unlikely that we will get to IW before carthage, though.

3) Why do you think we are alone on an island with carthage, as opposed to maybe just being on the end of a penisula? I would agree that there is probably no one to our south/east, at least no one near by.
1) I thought about this. Trouble is that Istanbul grow "slow". In equilibrum regime it may do 1 worker in 3 turns and one settler at 6 turns. Optimal size of Cities at despotism withou Lux is 3-4, so some cities may biuld worker occasionaly from other Cities.
2) As I said Writing->Phylo-> Literature looks very good. It will give reach trade opportunity and chanses that Cartage build TGLIB for us. So Writing 100% is my plan, but I stoped to discuss.
Let wait what nerovats will say about it...
3) Everithing may be. But we are in deep South, so probability, that continet suddenly bend up is small. (We are at continents, right?). Also it looks that Cartage met nobody, inspite of many Barb Camps behind. At Deity AI goes for barbs very actively. Also, small amount of Cartage Cities that you have noticed indicates the fact that no land behind them. And also nobody there, looking at their research and money dynamics. But it is just suggestions...
So, what we decided about "my" turns 39-40? Who will play it and when?

AutomatedTeller

Jan 25, 2007, 12:04 PM

go ahead and finish them off :)

glenmetz

Jan 25, 2007, 12:20 PM

Agreed, crank them out

nerovats

Jan 26, 2007, 05:01 AM

For some reason I wasn't able to post here for a day or so, but:
Since it appears we're alone with Carthage we must build curaghs. Using the warrior block will only work as long as Carthage has 1 or 2 settlers wandering about. Just try to keep them out of our prductive core. Even with swords they'll be hard to beat, so I also would like to go for a Lit slingshot. Trading a lot with Carthage might keep them peacefull until we hit MA and get some attack strength.

I. Larkin

Jan 26, 2007, 08:31 AM

39 2190 BC Move Settler to position. Writing at 100%, 21 turns.
Busra: warrior-> Curragh. With forest cut in 2.
IBT Cartage warriors move
40 2150 BC Found next City. Decided to move warrior's curtain North.
The key tile of blockade is the hill (35,91). To slow Cartage expansion we may try to hold diaganal ((35,91)-(33,93). In worst case scenario we may hold diaganal ((35,91) - Istanbul) : it is a good for "defense" of our north land. I'v chande Edrine to worker in 2. It needs some calculations, but, probably Istanbull better build settler, then worker. (But Busra neds Curragh at 2).

glenmetz

Jan 26, 2007, 08:55 AM

Cool, I think Teller is up, and I'm on deck.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 26, 2007, 11:53 AM

This is an official Got it.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 27, 2007, 10:01 AM

well, that was not my best 20 turns.

Good: We have furs and contacts with the mongols. and are 14 turns from philosophy
Bad: Both curraghs died to barb galleys. No trading - both mongols and carthage got writing before us.
Ugly: Carthage demanded all our cash while I was running a deficit and the granary got disbanded:

The details:

1625 - Istanbul Settler->Granary
Bursa Settler-> Warrior

IBT - Barb attacks Uskudar, redlines warrior but dies. We put in a nice patio for the cave.

1600

Move blocking warriors around - we have a warrior/settler pair and a num merc/settler pair to keep out of our hair

Southern exploring warrior pops a hut for grins, gets 3 more barbs. Plenty of carthage warriors around to take care of them...

IBT - kon-tiki fights off a barb galley with no damage

1575 - 1 turn to writing. Give cow to bursa while we rebuild the istanbul granary..

1575 - Istanbul riots. That's 3 major mistakes I've made this turn set.

IBT - Feckless Adventurer dies to a barb galley
Karakorum builds the Oracle.
We get writing -> philosophy

Hannibal has writing, so no trade possibilities.

1550
Set Bursa to a curragh

Found Izmit Philo in 16
FUrs come in

IBT Kon tiki sunk by barb galley.

1525 =Edrine Spear-Barracks

IBT - MOngols building pyramids. Settlers walk back into carthage

Bursa - Curragh (Death to Barbs)->Curragh

Found Aydin

Philo in 14 turns.

The save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/Osman_of_the_Ottomans_1500_BC.SAV

Attached: our world - Mongols up NW of carthage on another island
our territory - rebuilding the granary..

glenmetz

Jan 27, 2007, 10:40 AM

UGHHHHH

I've got it. Teller, can you throw up some pics so the group can discuss the next turn set?

TimBentley

Jan 27, 2007, 11:20 AM

Ugly: Carthage demanded all our cash while I was running a deficit and the granary got disbanded:
You can click on the advisor when there's a demand and go to F1 to reduce your science.

nerovats

Jan 27, 2007, 01:36 PM

Looks like we got some great lands and will be able to block Carthage rather easily. To mad about the curaghs and granary, but we appear to do ok. Maybe we shouldn't build granaries as there isn't that much land, might not earn them back.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 27, 2007, 03:39 PM

We have plenty of land - that land keeps going for a little while off the map. That said, it may make sense to get archers/swords/cats and take down carthage while they build wonders.

if it wasn't carthage, I'd feel better about attacking them, but the numidians suck. I figure we will get WC and and perhaps the wheel and HB once we get philo.

btw - assuming we do get philosophy first... what free tech do we take? Math, for cats? CoL, to go for republic? MM? trade up to polytheism and take monarchy? any ideas?

nerovats

Jan 28, 2007, 03:00 AM

Maybe lit as ai won't research it we can trade it lateron.

I. Larkin

Jan 28, 2007, 01:10 PM

1575 - Istanbul riots. That's 3 major mistakes I've made this turn set.

IBT - Feckless Adventurer dies to a barb galley
Karakorum builds the Oracle.
We get writing -> philosophy

Hannibal has writing, so no trade possibilities.
You may check IBT via BIG PICTURE. Sometimes you can get something.
Also, it was resonable to trade writing from Mongols for gpt and trade to Cartage.
Well, play IBT is essential part for Deity. Same trick may work with Phylosophy, but it is unlikely, that we will get CB, Mysticism and Polytheism IBT.
Why Istanbul do not grow?
It is hole in the warrior's curtain on the north, may be it is OK for this turn.

glenmetz

Jan 28, 2007, 01:33 PM

IBT
Carthagian Settler/Warrior turn around, I guess we pissed them off

1475BC (1)
Lux spending to 10, Science to 90, Philo in 11+0

IBT
Uskudar Spear->Worker (chop for Rax)

1450BC (2)
zzz

IBT
Carthage tells our Curragh to split
Istanbul Granary->Settler (take the cow back)
Izmit Warrior->Worker

1425BC (3)
Change Aydin build from Worker->Warrior (worker done 3, growth in 7)
Get a Spear to Istanbul, Lux at 0, Sci 100 philo in 7-1gpt
Just noticed Carthage has a city on our borders to the North East
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Carthage_border_city.JPG
IBT
Bursa Curragh->Barracks

1400BC (4)
zzz

IBT
The Incans complete The MoM

1375BC (5)
Sci to 90, Philo in 5+1gpt

IBT
Aydin Warrior->Worker

1350BC (6)
Change Bursa to Warrior to deal with the Barb roaming the Ottoman country side
Warrior Kills a barb on the far eastern part of our Continent (1-0)

IBT
Istanbul Settler->Settler
Edrine Barracks->Spear
Bursa Warrior->Barracks
Uskudar Worker->Barracks
The Celts finish the Pyramids
Incans get The Great Lighthouse

1325BC (7)
Carthage now has 3 settler pairs trying to get buy, thinking of just fortifying a row of warriors across our border
Sci 80 Philo in 4+2gpt

IBT
Izmit Worker->Rax

1300BC (8)
Eastern Warrior Kills Barb Horsie (2-0)

IBT
zzz

1275BC (9)
A Carthage settler pair gets throw (sorry, couldn't hold them forever)
Sci 70 Philo in 2+8gpt

IBT
zzz

1250BC (10)
Sci to 50 Philo in 1+12gpt

IBT
Philo in we didn't get the Slingshot, Science to IW in 9-5gpt
Edrine Spear->Spear
Iznik Granary->Settler
Ayding Worker->Barracks

1225BC (11)
Trade Carthage Philo for Warrior Code, The Wheel, and 110 gold
Trade Mongols Philo for CB and 30 gold (he would not trade Horseback or Iron Working)
Change all spear builds to Archers
We have Horsies right next door to Istanbul
Antalya Founded->Worker
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Antalya_Founded.JPG
Eastern Warrior disperses a barb camp (3-0)

IBT
Curragh beats a Barb Galley, but falls to 2nd one (4-1)
Istanbul Settler->Settler

1200BC (12)
Iznik is going to Riot, up Lux to 20, Sci to 80, IW in 10-3gpt

IBT
The Mongols are building the ToA

1175BC (13)
Get a MP into Iznik, Lux down to 10, Sci 90 IW in 8-3gpt
Horsies connected

IBT
zzz

1150BC (14)
Pop a hut for the heck of it, get more barbs
Sci to 80, IW in 7

IBT
Erdine Archer->Archer
Celts complete SoZ

1125BC (15)
An MP arrives in Bursa, lux to 0, Sci 100, IW in 5-3gpt
Warrior Kills barb (5-1)
Konya founded (Worker) cutting of Carthage to the North
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Konya_Founded.JPG

IBT
Bursa Barracks->Archer

1100BC (16)
Warrior falls at a barb camp (5-2)
Lux to 10 (Iznik reaches 5 and is going to riot), Sci 90, IW in 4-4gpt

IBT
Istanbul Settler->Settler

1075BC (17)
Take a beaker in Iznik IW in 3-4gpt

IBT
Edrine Archer->Spear (settler escort from Istanbul)
Iznik Settler->Settler
Izmit Barracks->Worker

1050BC (18)
zzz

IBT
Uskudar Barracks->Worker
Aztecs complete ToA
Arabs complete the Hanging Gardens

1025BC (19)
IW in Next Turn

IBT
Iron Working in->Mysticism 6-6gpt
Bursa Archer->Archer

1000BC (20)
We have Iron, sort of
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Iron_sort_of.JPG
I have a settler headed that way, and another one that can be sent up there as well
Another warrior can't get that pesky barb camp out of the way (5-3)
Thats it for me, here is the current land
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/1000BC.JPG
And the save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Osman_of_the_Ottomans_1000_BC.SAV)

I. Larkin

Jan 28, 2007, 01:52 PM

Well, I think better have Literature instead of Mysticizm...
How Cartage manage to squized behind to grab our Iron?
May be we sattle on Hills IBT Iron and Horses to grab Iron?

I. Larkin

Jan 28, 2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by I. Larkin
BTW, anybody want to play SGTOM 12 with me?

nerovats:
I signed up for SGOTM12, requesting team Ivan if it still exists. Sounds like a great variant. Would like to invite entire team to join as well.
Anybody else? Will AutomatedTeller play in Ivan's team?

AutomatedTeller

Jan 28, 2007, 04:16 PM

sure. I signed up - I'll request Team Ivan :)

Good to hear that Celts gets SoZ ;)

OK - so we have swords (in some time), archers, horseys... Carthage has been building pyramids for us... I think our island will be ours :)

glenmetz

Jan 28, 2007, 05:01 PM

I agree, lets get a force together and say bye bye to carthage.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 28, 2007, 05:46 PM

if we pop a temple in uskudar, will we get that iron? Would it be worth it to plop a settler right next to that mountain to grab it? It's certainly closer than the other one, plus keeps carthage from getting it...

that's what Ivan said :) that settler, btw, was the one that looked like it was heading to coast when I picked up my turn - I thought he was going to claim the furs.

hmm... we have 3 irons on this island! that means a couple of civs don't have them at all...

glenmetz

Jan 29, 2007, 09:21 AM

I'd like to join the SGOTM as well if a team will have me.

Ivan-I went to Mysticism trying to get towards Monarchy. I was not able to hold off 3 carthagian settler pairs with 6 warriors. Once they got Leptis Minor roaded they were able to easily skip around me.

I wouldn't worry about the source of Iron to the SE of Uskudar as Carthage already has one outside of Leptis Minor. We wouldn't be denying the resource if we had it. We do need to get the one off to the East of our territory, and hopefully along the way hem Carthage in.

I. Larkin

Jan 29, 2007, 09:49 AM

We are at turning point now and that depend will we war with Cartage NOW (trade IW to them for Mysticizm, say), capture Leptis Minor, and upgrade wariiors? Or go to Republic and make war at MA? Actually research way to Monarchy is longer, then to Republic.
if we pop a temple in uskudar, will we get that iron? Would it be worth it to plop a settler right next to that mountain to grab it? It's certainly closer than the other one, plus keeps carthage from getting it...
Unfortunatly not. Border configuration shows, that they already have temple there. And it will be older, than our. Lib may help... But I think better to settle on Hills right now.
glenmetz

I'd like to join the SGOTM as well if a team will have me.
Just sign in indicating Ivan team.

nerovats

Jan 29, 2007, 11:12 AM

I'm up will play tomorrow.
Do we want to switch to lit? I would, won't be able to get GLib anymore but lit will be tradeble.
Do we want to waste settler to gab iron, or get the other one? Carthage already has one so I suppose we could settle for the third.
Do we want early war against Carthage or try to find an ironless civ. Carthage will be hard to beat without swords, we will need lot of cats, atleast both their irons are close, but NM don't need that.

glenmetz

Jan 29, 2007, 12:00 PM

I. Larkin

Jan 29, 2007, 12:56 PM

We should get the eastern source of iron, IMO. If we do, we should be able to wedge in thier holdings to the north or our territory.

I think we should war with Carthage. We'll have plenty of cities to pump out Swords soon. Warring with another civ right now is going to be difficult at best due to transport limitations.
questions:
Trade IW to Cartage or not?
1) If not, most probably they demand it. Good opportunity to reject and start war. Most probably without swords yet, but Cartage also. We may capture Cities that defended by warriors and pillage their Iron. As a peace deal get some Techs. (Good scenario).
2) Trade IW, connect Iron pump some swords Research Literature, go to War via "remove or declare". Leave them without Iron. (Good scenario).
All this wars in Despo mode.
I think nerovats will play 20 turns but next roung better to have 10 turns each.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 29, 2007, 01:22 PM

I started to see numidians half way through my turn set - I have to assume they have them everywhere now...

I. Larkin

Jan 30, 2007, 10:12 AM

Bamspeedy's article on AI Attitude
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44999,
may be useful for SGTOM 12

AutomatedTeller

Jan 30, 2007, 12:02 PM

yup. Though, frankly, the easiest way to get a diplo victory is to figure out who the opponent will be and declare on them and bring everyone in ;)

I. Larkin

Jan 30, 2007, 01:09 PM

yup. Though, frankly, the easiest way to get a diplo victory is to figure out who the opponent will be and declare on them and bring everyone in ;)
Yes, but they
1) should not be too "furious" to have positive Attitude after MA,
2) We should have enough Money to grag them to MA,
3) Our "Military Alliance" reputation must be clean.

nerovats

Jan 30, 2007, 01:44 PM

Pre-turn
Carthage won't give much for IW so we keep it.
Change science to lit.
Edrine to settler science to 100% (Edrine get's scientist)
Bursa to warrior, archers can't be upgraded
IBT
wow animations are off, will turn them on, lot's of warriors moving, not sure what happend.
975BC
Antalya worker->rax
Carthage got IW, no wonder they wouldn't give much
IBT
NM+S pair appear
950BC
Bursa warrior->warrior
Uskudar and Izmit worker->warrior
spot purple border
move units to block settler pair
925BC
Edrine settler->warrior
Iznik adn Istanbul Settler->rax
Found Sinop to claim iron
Found Kafa on lake, both cities to workers
Contact Aztecs they have lot of gold and Myst, Math, MM and HBR on us, no trades.
Will meet purple next turn (Chinese?)
900BC
It's Arabia, they lack MM, no trades yet
Completed warrior blockade, but they will soon have ships
875BC
Edrine warrior->settler
Konya worker->worker
Aydin rax->warrior
IBT
Mongols start Great Wall
850BC
Found Ankara->worker
Decide to not yet connect iron, get some more warriors first, we have 18 but mostly regulars.
825BC
There are several Carthage warriors in SE, but keep some guards near settlers
800BC, 775BC
nothing
750BC
Instanbul rax->chariot
Found Mugla->worker
730BC
Found Denizli->worker
get some scientist to get Lit next turn
710BC
give horses and lit to mongols for CoL, Math and 21 gold
sell lit to aztecs for 240 gold
give lit and CoL to Carthage for HBR, myst and 157 gold
also sell lit to Arabia for 31 gold and 1 gpt (will get it from ai anyway).
turn off science lux to 10%, now making 40gpt
worker to iron
690BC
Iznik and Antalya rax->warrior
670BC
Istanbul is now at 10spt->horsies
650BC
Konya->worker->rax
Our army is now average to Arabia, but weak to all others, wait until upgrades
IBT
Mongols want to sell us poly for all our gold, no thank you, Carthage is gone give it for free.
630BC
Istanbul riots, sorry increase lux
Carthage also has horse on our side
Spot another border (Iro's?)
IBT
Aztec finish GW
610BC
We got iron, before upgrading our army is average to Carthage
Upgrade 12 warriors, army is still average
Found Bolu->worker
We need to connect the fur to trade

Will stop here and pass to next player (getting late, and discus war).
First attack should be Leptis Minor it will cut of their iron and horse as Hadrumetum has no harbor yet. I'd go for core and kep some later upgrades at home to cope with units from Ruicade and the warriors in the SE fighting the barbs.
Carthage has another horse but that is easy to pillage (W of Iznik). Get some cities then make peace for techs and hopefully the cities in our territory. Maybe we should take Rusicade by force before making peace. Cities will have large flip risk though.

146855

146856

146857

glenmetz

Jan 30, 2007, 03:12 PM

I agree, Leptis Minor to cut off the iron source. Maybe keep a regiment of 5 Swords back to take out Rusicade and the other city northeast of it. Do we want to change the horsie builds to Swords?

AutomatedTeller

Jan 30, 2007, 04:37 PM

Cities will have large flip risk though

No flip risk - culture flipping is turned off.

I don't think we should connect a second lux until we can ensure coastal trade routes dont' get cut by barb galleys - it *will* get demanded from us if we dont' trade it, and the barb uprisings (coming soon to a barb camp near you) will cut the routes like that...

Should we upgrade some barb fighting warriors to swords and train them on barbs?

Nitfan

Jan 31, 2007, 01:39 AM

Looks good so far guys. I'm up next but I'm leaving early tomorrow on a flight across country for a funeral so if you guys want to skip me it's a good idea since I won't be able to play until atleast saturday.

glenmetz

Jan 31, 2007, 09:52 AM

Nitfan,

It is your game, but 4 days is quite some time. Its up to you.

I. Larkin

Jan 31, 2007, 10:12 AM

No flip risk - culture flipping is turned off.

I don't think we should connect a second lux until we can ensure coastal trade routes dont' get cut by barb galleys - it *will* get demanded from us if we dont' trade it, and the barb uprisings (coming soon to a barb camp near you) will cut the routes like that...

Should we upgrade some barb fighting warriors to swords and train them on barbs?
100% agree. We have to think about close war, and ensure sea route first.

About Nitfan skip: I prefer to wait him, no rush with this game IMHO.
I desperetly want to finish COTM, I am at 500 AD and domination *close*, well, may be 15-20 turns...

nerovats

Jan 31, 2007, 10:31 AM

Forgot to mention in one of the last turn we got massive uprising near Sinop. Maybe we should get some cats before going to war too.

AutomatedTeller

Jan 31, 2007, 05:14 PM

I. Larkin

Feb 01, 2007, 08:26 AM

Are we in the middle of a 20 turn deal with the mongols with horses? I don't think we have a harbor, so it's going through carthage? Let's not declare until that deal is over, or our trading rep is toast. i think it'll get toasted even if we do build a harbor, cause I assume that carthaginian culture blocks the trade route...
Exactly. we have to wait 14 turns. "Our" harbor wil not help. However we already have excess of units and I'd like to analize if we break our reputation to catch in tech. (I mean make overseas deal for res+gpt and declare to Cartage). Alternatively we have to build more Cities.
I gave up with COTM 32, Maia too strond to deal in 3 hours. I can play tomorow, and Nitfan will continue.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 01, 2007, 01:15 PM

works for me: so, Ivan is up, Nitfan on deck, I'm in the hole, as they say.

I'm not sure I understand what analysis you want to do, though. Are you weighing whether or not to go to war now?

I. Larkin

Feb 02, 2007, 07:24 AM

works for me: so, Ivan is up, Nitfan on deck, I'm in the hole, as they say.

I'm not sure I understand what analysis you want to do, though. Are you weighing whether or not to go to war now?
OK, I will play today night and post tomorrow.
Analysis is: "is it resonable to trush reputation and catch Techs now, or may be we will need it for future?" The trouble is that Cartage may declare us any time and reputation will go to the "Bean" anyway, without "free Techs".

glenmetz

Feb 02, 2007, 07:54 AM

We'll get our free techs from Carthage if they declare on us if we start taking over thier territory and sue for peace.

I. Larkin

Feb 02, 2007, 08:17 AM

We'll get our free techs from Carthage if they declare on us if we start taking over thier territory and sue for peace.
OK, conclusion is: try to keep reputation clean, and do not worry if Cartage declare.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 02, 2007, 03:00 PM

ah... now I see.

I think it's unlikely that carthage will declare on us in the next 14 turns - they are average to us, and there is a lot of land open on the island, so I presume they are still building our future slaves...er, settlers. Plus, they have crappy land and their best city is building pyramids. Best thing for us, really, will be them completing pyramids the turn our horse deal ends while we have built up a nice force... Unfortunately, of course, they build swords and mercs as fast as we can build archers - but then, I expect them to start the lighthouse soon, if they haven't.

nerovats

Feb 03, 2007, 01:36 PM

In 14 turns we could get some more cities for unit support and get 10-20 cats, baybe 2 or 3 more horses to take out warriors in south. Do we do 10 turns from now on?

I. Larkin

Feb 03, 2007, 04:23 PM

Do we do 10 turns from now on?
Yes we do. I did.
Turnlog
0 610 BC:Hit enter (better to think before.)
IBT : Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North
1 590 BC: Meet Indians. Trade CoL+Literature for MM+4 gold. Set Rep at zero.
We have too many units. Put Busra and Granary Cities to Settlers. Set Lux 10%, hire 2 Specialists. Send troops to fight vs Barbarians.
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North
2 570 BC: Nothing interestin
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North
3 550 BC: Make road to Cartage. Send worker away from Barbarians.
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, kill horse, capture worker. Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North
4 530 BC: Upgrade warrior. Fight vs Barbarians.
IBT : Barbarians fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North, Aztec's Galley sail near Cartage. Aztecs have Republic. Wounded Cartege Galley sail home. Cartage border expanded.
5 510 BC:The same...
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North, Cartage Galley won Barb Galley. Cartege unloaded S/NM pair near Boul.
6 490 BC: Found Urfa. Upgrade warrior.
IBT : Barbarian fight at Urfa, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North,
S/NM pair gone at FOW North.
Aztec's Galley sail at North near Cartage.
7 470 BC: Destroy Barb Camp. Upgrade 2 warriors.
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North, Aztec's Galley sail back at North near Cartage. Are they at war? 2 NM gone at north FOW. What for?
8 450 BC:
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at North,
Aztec's Galley sail forward (east) at North near Cartage (??). Barb camp at far west...
9 430 BC: Nothing interesting
IBT : Barbarian fight at South, Cartage fight vs Barbarians at Far East.
Aztec's Galley sail forward (east) at North near Cartage. Cartage galley sail NW at North.
10 410 BC: Found Bingol. Destrroy B Camp. Leave gold mb for embassy. Send warriors to have a look at FOW.

Nitfan have 4 turns to regoup and attack. Also, ther some space to settle at Far East. We should grab all fur to trade after war. At this war we have to secure our trade route to Mongol - Atztec.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 03, 2007, 04:33 PM

Nitfan up?

Do we have some cats? Are we gonna be at war soon?

I. Larkin

Feb 03, 2007, 04:39 PM

Nitfan up?

Do we have some cats? Are we gonna be at war soon?
I buildt few. 2 or 3 and continue...
It may be that Aztecs and Cartage at war. Aztec Embassy very expensive. But we may make with Cartage to find out and find out wats going on inside.
Nitfan up.
BTW, we need fifth member for SGOTM12. May be it is a good idea if Nitfan Sign in for us?

nerovats

Feb 05, 2007, 10:57 AM

I. Larkin

Feb 05, 2007, 01:28 PM

If Niftan want to join us he is welcome by me. Otherwise I assume the SGOTM staff will asign someone who didn't request a team.

Are we going after Carthage in 4-5 turns? Check how strong we are, I think 10 cats is a minimum though.
Sure, Alan will insert somebody. But better ask for somebody not to get "random person". I am hecitating between Madviking and Ignas. SGTOM12 Game needs very long planing (for prebuild) and good microManagement skills.
Dunno...
about this game: Well, the more, the better, but in genral 2 swords better then 3 cats.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 05, 2007, 04:08 PM

do we want to pop rush some cats in remote towns? we will be in despotism for some time, so many towns that we create will be pretty corrupt, anyway.

yes to Nitfan. of course - he's how we met :)

Nitfan

Feb 06, 2007, 07:10 AM

glenmetz

Feb 06, 2007, 07:13 AM

That sounds good to me sir.

I. Larkin

Feb 06, 2007, 07:57 AM

I'll definitely join up for that SGOTM just let me know what/when/where. This will be an official 'got it'. I would like to propose a strategy for this war on carthage...

I think we may be best off doing a two stage campaign. First part we clear out the rif raf that got behind us during rex'ing. Use cats upfront to take out all there NM's that are going to try to come and pillage every available square. Hopefully we can use a minimal force of horseman to take out the towns behind us. Hold them off up front, sue for peace to get techs, take a little break to resettle the rest behind us and then go for the knockout punch shortly after.

Input welcome.
Just go to http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=204196 and sign up asking Ivan Team. Alan already make a draft team of 5, but 6 also OK.

About this game: I think we should make sudden strike of Letice Minor and hold it no matter what.
Note, that flip turn off, so we may put as much units as we need.
It is a priority 1) to leave Cartage without Iron, 2) Ensure trade route. That mean, we have to take Western Cities first. Inner will fall sonner or later anyway.
I agree to draft some cats.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 06, 2007, 09:14 AM

agree that we have to take out the iron, and perhaps their horses.

nerovats

Feb 06, 2007, 12:21 PM

in genral 2 swords better then 3 cats.

In general yes, but don't think so in this case as a vet sword has a poor chance against a NM fortified in a city.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 06, 2007, 12:36 PM

Anything with a barracks should be creating swords/horseys - maybe a couple of spears to protect the cats.

At this point, anything not having a barracks and not about to finish one should probably be building cats, settlers or workers.

A catapult is an interesting item. It's not that great, but it's an investment in the future. The 10 or 15 or 20 cats we create now will be with us through artillery, while the 20 or 30 swords we create will upgrade to MDI, then go the way of the dodo unless we have a lot of cash and want to upgrade them to guerillas. You know - the upgrade path for swords is so wierd - they go from being the best general offensive unit to being a wierd afterthought to being a resource free defender... odd.

Nitfan

Feb 06, 2007, 05:17 PM

Preflight – Do some snooping around to see exactly what we have where. Whip two cats in our most corrupt cities. Change two cities over to cats on the front line. Change a couple of other builds around as well.

Plan is to wait four turns for the horse deal to expire then let Carthage have it on the 5th.

Hit Enter

Mecca completes the GL

400BC – Move units into position for attack, workers work

390BC – much of the same

IBT – The Chinese have been destroyed

370BC – Same as first turn

IBT – nothing

350BC – whip another two cats, the suspense is killing me

IBT – nothing again, horse deal expires

330BC – move units around, I decide to wait another turn to get two cats into position with sword group

IBT – nothing

310BC – everything is in place, there will be three main prongs to the attack.

300BC – Take one final look at everything to make sure it’s ok, move workers out of harm. Declare War.

290BC – move stacks into their territory

IBT – Aztecs are building Sun Tzu’s, we lose a vwarrior to a vwarrior and a worker underneath (0-1), rNM loses to a fortified warrior (1-1)

270 BC – Pillage horses with rwarrior, bombard rusicade with 4 cats and 3 hit. There are only two rNM in rusicade 1 and 2 hp’s left. Attack with sword and lose (1-2), Attack with sword and win(2-2), defeat regular sword with vsword(3-2), defear NM with horsemen (4-2) and our glorious armies are victorious a whole 4 gold liberated. Bombard Leptis Minor with 4 cats, one hit (fire the spotter). Vsword loses to rNM (4-3), 2Vsword defeats rNM (6-3) and we capture Leptis Minor with a cat and worker, harbor still intact. Vsword defeats rNM (7-3) and promotes to elite. Vsword defeats vwarrior (8-4). Move units into position to take Oea and Cirta. Riza founded. Vhorsemen defeats rNM and kills settler. (9-4) Vhorsemen loses rNM (9-5) and Vsword defeats vNM(10-5). Take a look around and hit enter.

IBT – The Aztecs are definitely at war with someone because by view of our curragh they were moving about 15-20 swordsmen south along their western shore. Judging by the powergraph we may need to dogpile on them. They also dropped a settler along our south shore and founded a city guarded by a lone archer. We may want to declare on them within the next few turns. We lose an rsword to a NM and an rsword defeats a NM. (11-6)

250 BC – We lose 3 vswords trying to take Oea but it is heavily guarded for some reason, send reinforcements to take next turn. Move in to take Cirta.

We need to discuss what we want to do about the Aztecs. We can trade with India for gems, he wants 2 gpt and 52 gold.

Nitfan

Feb 06, 2007, 05:19 PM

And the save...

AutomatedTeller

Feb 06, 2007, 07:34 PM

Sounds like they were at war with china.

They are definitely running away, but I suspect that's mainly fueled by a GA, either from wonders or from the war they are in. I'm not really worried about them running away with tech - once we finish off carthage and start building infrastructure, we'll catch up - besides, they are going to get held up in middle ages optionals...

I've got the save, btw.

Looked at the save - we are researching republic at minimum? we can get it in 20 without running a deficit. Do we want to min research republic?

I wonder if aztecs just took out china and are going after mongols, or if celts took out china? Probably the Celts - 5 civs on that island is really crowded.

Are we the only scientific civ in the game? That will help.

We have a lot of swords doing MP duties...

I'll play tomorrow night, so any thoughts...

Nitfan

Feb 07, 2007, 07:09 AM

I was researching at minimum because I upgraded a decent amount of swords where necessary. It would probably be ok to go at maximum at this point.

I agree that I think aztecs are going after one of the civs we have contact with. You may want to check the builds in the outlying towns I got a little lazy after I whipped some cats. As far as the MP'ing duties I guess we should prolly just up the lux another 20% and clear all the swords to the fight. I couldn't make my mind up on that.

glenmetz

Feb 07, 2007, 07:43 AM

If we could use the Gems for happiness, I say make the trade. We'll probably be better off in the long run financially. Good turn set, go finish them off Teller.

nerovats

Feb 07, 2007, 10:25 AM

Sounds like we're doing ok. Had expected more vet NM's, we really need cats for those, but when cities in SE are gone we can create larger stack to claim their core. Do we want to make peace after cleaning the SE, to get some techs and re-group?

I. Larkin

Feb 07, 2007, 10:51 AM

I think we may keep research rate 10% for a while. Republic is difficult with this unit/Cities ratio. After havy losses we may swich. Can we trade with India? And also trade fur? What will happend if Cartache disband harbor? (Rep trash). Let secure trade route and trade after.. I think no reason to stop war before that. Settle near East Fur. (Do not let Azteck!) It is our hope for economy... Embassy with Atztek and some stage will help to get some cash for MA. (Cant stop thinking about SGTOM12. Anybody know Smart?)

glenmetz

Feb 07, 2007, 10:53 AM

I. Larkin

Feb 07, 2007, 10:56 AM

If we are winning, why sue for peace unless we can get 5-6 techs from them. If we can support the troops and keep our people happy while winning an early war with carthage, lets keep at them. More land is good.

I do not see "victory" yet. Although Leptis Minor is very good point. However at there GA they may kick us badly. As I said trade route is what we need.

I. Larkin

Feb 07, 2007, 12:13 PM

Since everybody will play SGTOM12 we may start discussion here, but not to put "classified information".
Look at files, it is tech tree and starting MU of civs.
At deity. Value of tech should be multiplied by 40 to get research beakers.
For AI the same value is multiplied by 24.
This chart shows, that we will stuck at MA with single City.

nerovats

Feb 07, 2007, 02:26 PM

Would prefer to discus in our own tread, should be up in a day or 2. Would urge to discus a lot first before starting to play as there won't be room to correct mistakes.

I. Larkin

Feb 07, 2007, 02:26 PM

If we could use the Gems for happiness, I say make the trade. We'll probably be better off in the long run financially. Good turn set, go finish them off Teller.
I looked at save and we indeed can trade with India. However civ Assist shows that trade route is blocked. Well, may be because of India in Peace with Cartage they may use their harbor? Anybody understand Trade Network better?

I. Larkin

Feb 07, 2007, 03:17 PM

Would prefer to discus in our own tread, should be up in a day or 2. Would urge to discus a lot first before starting to play as there won't be room to correct mistakes.
I see. But game may be far too long, so we may discuss NOW common things like who will start, will we play 20 turn each at the first round, how long we are going to discuss before start.
I'd also like to know when team members available for discussion. I am in Brasila, Brazil and my time zone 4 hour after Europe and 2 Hours ahead before East Coast.
Also, (as I am doing now) I recomend to summarise ideas and have it ready when thread will be open.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 07, 2007, 04:51 PM

We'll get a thread on friday. I think we get a fair amount of time to play the game - a couple of months.

I am on EST (Boston, MA).

I don't know who will start - I think our captain should take the first crack, if he wants :) I just highly recommend that if we find something surprising (and they are hinting at surprises) that we stop our turn and discuss.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 07, 2007, 10:42 PM

it's now half way through 130 BC - the war goes well, research on republic goes well...

and we have our first of many leaders!!

we have 2 choices:

1) army
2) FP

We are strong compared to carthage, I'm beginning to switch military builds to libraries, and they are sending archers and warriors as reinforcements. I may not finish them off, but they are done - they will currently give up a tech and a crappy city for peace right now - that's not enough, of course.

I think FP, cause this war is close to over, and we won't be able to move a filled army.

Question is:

FP or army?
If FP, where?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/east_end_of_empire.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/west_side_of_empire.JPG

I am thinking one of the cities in the 2nd ring, either on the east side (better land that way) or west side (carthaginian core cities are bigger now). My first thoughts are Kafa or Iznik.

I'll finish off the set tomorrow night after we talk about it. Orhan is currently safe in Edrine

btw - the town Carthage is willing to give up is saldae, the one on the far east side of our island. They have 3 other crap cities somewhere, but I don't know where they are. They won't give those up with a tech.

I. Larkin

Feb 08, 2007, 08:12 AM

I think FP, cause this war is close to over, and we won't be able to move a filled army.

Question is:

FP or army?
Sure, FP. Swords or horses army is not very good...
I think FP in Mugla. It is good City, and FP normally works only for 1 City. (70% cup).

Minimum of the victory condition is Thevesti. It is important to take Leptis Magna first. We have to secure trade route.
Are we at trade now? As I understud from previous save Atzteks are in war with Cartage, but the rest is not.

DrMadd

Feb 08, 2007, 08:17 AM

How does one get into civ3 play by email? is there a site?

AutomatedTeller

Feb 08, 2007, 09:12 AM

It helps, a little, with cities nearer it than the capitol.

pbem - there is a forum for that - don't remember the name of it exactly - multi-player?

I. Larkin

Feb 08, 2007, 10:07 AM

It helps, a little, with cities nearer it than the capitol.

Look at this, theoretically longer distance a bit better, but difference so little...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139824&d=1160061539:

AutomatedTeller

Feb 08, 2007, 10:24 AM

wow - too much for me to process right now ;)

Am fine with Mugla as FP site, btw. main thing, really, is to get it up ;)

Anyone else? I'll finish my turn set tonight (it's 11:30 am EST for me)

nerovats

Feb 08, 2007, 10:37 AM

I would prefer Sinop I think. It should be a city that can grow, thus the wheat will help.

Nitfan

Feb 08, 2007, 10:38 AM

I was going to suggest Sinop haha:lol: . The only reason being that it would be the center of another core of cities. Six of one, half dozen of another, like Automated Teller said let's just get it up.

Can CAII predict corruption at multiple FP sites?

Nitfan

Feb 08, 2007, 10:39 AM

Wow that is weird we literally just posted that at the same time.

I. Larkin

Feb 08, 2007, 11:55 AM

Parameters of Mugla (11) and Sinop (10) and anount of Cities in range are so close, that small factors like Weat make some difference. However, Mugla on the river.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 08, 2007, 06:39 PM

I'm leaning towards Mugla. CivAssist says it gives as much an economic boost as anything right now, it's on a river and it's currentyl completly corrupt. it's better than Sinop is, at the current state.

If anyone objects to Mugla, you have another hour or so ;)

Kafa is another option, btw - on fresh water, can be given the wheat, same effect (currently) as Sinop. Mugla, currently, gives the largest effect - Science (at current ratings) goes from 72->85, corruption from 42->24. 2nd biggest effect (Kafa) gives 26 corruption, 83 science. 3rd is Sinop (27 corruption, still 83 science)

AutomatedTeller

Feb 08, 2007, 09:38 PM

preflight:

We are average compared to carthage,Mongols, Weak to aztecs, strong to india and arabia. Am guessing that aztecs have been
at war with india.

Hit enter

2 indian galleys wander around. Monty (polite) boots us. When we get booted our curragh jumps
across a continent!!

Carthage vWarrior dies
Carthage eWarrior pillages.
Lots of moving around
Numidian kills horse
Edrine sword-> sword

Carthage galley fights aztec galley and dies a fast death

Kafa sword -> sword - will probably change that to a lib

Move Science to 60%, change all tax men to geeks, get republic in 19 with -1 gpt

We have a harbor in Leptis Major, which explains why we can trade with india. I guess a coastal route through culture isn't cut, though
I am sure that a land route is.s

230 BC 2 cats redline warrior south of leptis minor, kill with sword

Move more swords/horse up to Oea.

4 cats bombard size 2 town, only 1 hit. Hold off on attacking.

3 cats bombard sword near Rusicade, redlining
eSword wins.
Cat bombards warriors, one hit
Vhorse attaack warrior, 2 HP, then retreats
Vhorse kills warrior, promotes

Capture worker near size two city, all fortify.

Change bolu to worker - we need more workers.

IBT

Aztecs get mad at the curragh - still polite. We say sorry
Carthage impales a NM on our elite horse.
Impales a rArcher on teh spear on their horse.
Impales a numidiam on the sword that killed the warrior near Leptis, promoting him

210 BC - Uskudar Sword->Sword
Izmit - Horse->>horse
Ankara riots - create a scientists

Attack Oea - 2 hourse, 6 sword

vHourse redlines nNM, redlines, promotes the NM
vHorse redlines rNM, redlines, promotes the NM
vSword kills rNM
vSword kill 2HP vNM
vSword kills 2HP vNM, takes Oea, takes gets 4 slaves from 2 settlers.

vHorse redlines, then promots a vNM in cirta
vHorse redlines, then retreats without damaging 2 HP rNM
vHorse dies taking 1 HP from rNM
vSword kills 2HP vNM and promotes

We take Cirta, gaining 4 carthaginian worker slaves (from workers)

5 cats from Leptis Minor move to bombard passing sword - 1 hits.
eSword kills 2 HP sword

IBT - eNM kills rSpear in Crita
nVM kills vSword in cirta
rArcher takes down eSword in carthaginian territory.
carth vSword dies trying to kill horse guard warrior

Istanbul settler-> library
Rusicade supress 1 rioter, riots, turn to geek
Denizli worker->cat
Bolu worker->galley

Arabs are builing suntzu's

190 BC - we kill the 2 NM near Cirta

Change konya from cat-> galley pop rush the galley - I figure that making contact with the last island is important, and the curragh will take forever to get there.

Compared to carthage and India, we are strong. Compared to Mongols and Arabia, we are average. COmpared to aztecs, we are weak.
Debate changing some mil builds to libs, decide that it's not yet time. Carthage still has 6 core cities, plus various others. Hippo and Hadrumentum are next.

Make the trade with India, reluctantly, for gems - fur, 3 gpt, 60 gold. Seems like a rip off, but it will allow us to lower lux to 0.

IBT -

india is unhappy that we are going by bengal and complains. we apologize, of course.

Aztecs land some forces near the carthaginian city on the far east end of our island.

170 BC Iznik - Horsey->Horsey

Aydin horsey->horsey.
Konya galley->galley
Sinop cat->cat

cat bombards archer near Cirta, redlines it, eSword kills it.

vHorse kills rArcher and promotes to elite

Drop science to 70%

next turn, we get hippo, Hadrumentum and Sabratha

5 cats bombard hippo, get 3 hit
vSword redlines NM and dies
eSword kills redlines NM
eSword redlines, but kills NM
eHorse redlines, but kills redlines archer and takes hippo

vSword attacks regular sword and dies
vSword kills rSword
vSword redlines, but kills rSword
vSword kills rSword, promotes

4 cats bombard Hadrumentum, 2 hit

v horse dies, but redlines
vSword kills 2 hp NM
eSword kills redlind NM and takes Hadrumentum

Resistance ends in rusicade - they had done some poprushing, so no one is happy, so set both citizens to a geek
Republic due in 10.

IBT - india plops a city down on the east end of the island.
rArcher causes a vHorse to retreat.
carthage moves crappy forces in to threaten hippo.

edrine sword-> Library
Ukudar sword->Library
aydin riots, give them a geek
Antalaya horse->horse
Ankara worker->cat

vSword kills rArcher
eSword kills warrior and generates Orhan!!

vHorse kills rArcher

IBT

rAcher attack vHorse and dies, promoting the horse
rArcher captures two uncovered cats - oops. Carthage, of course, moves them back into their territory - oncovered...
Aztec Sword kills NM on the other island

110 BC

Istanbul Lib->worker - grows to 6, make a geek
Orhan treks to Kafa, to build the FP in mugla next turn

VHorse kills rNM in Sabratha, promotoing
vSword kills 2HP rNM, taking sabratha, capturing a worker interestingly, our economy gets worse. We need FP...

e*Sword retakes cats - 2 cats attack rArcher and redline
VSword kills redlined archer

Found Zonguldak -> Library. Not sure I like where I put it.

Change all military builds to libs.

IBT - rNM kills redlined sword - should have moved that.

Mugla worker-> FP
Orhan goes to Mugla and rushes the FP

vHourse attacks NM and retreats
vHorse impales himself on rNM - no damage has been done to this stupid NM
vSwords kill stupid NM with no damage
7 turns to republic. Move forces in for assault on leptis major.

Curraghs moves and finds that the Cadiz, town across the channel that aztecs are taking has incense.

IBT - rNM impales himself on a sword
rARcher impales himself on a sword

carthaginian galleys wander around

Sabratha resistance lowers - 2 geeks.

FP finishes - lower a turn on republic, now lose no money
Turn science to 70, still get republic in 5, make 9 gpt

Found kirklarelli

IBT - Aztecs fail to take Cadiz.
2 rNM kill vSwords
1 rArcher impales himself on a sword

50BC Izmit Library->Courthouse

eHorse kills redlined NM

2 cats bomard Leptis magna, 1 hit
eHorse kills 2 hp NM
4 cats bombard saldae, 1 hit.

End of set report:

we have FP.
Leptis Minor is ours next turn.

I have not taken Saldae - I am thinking the next turn set, we take out the other 4 cities on the east side, and give carthage peace for
techs.

Istanbul and Izmit have courthouses which are prebuilds for markets.

6 cities will complete libs in the next couple of turns, as well.

India does not have republic - hopefully, we can trade republic for 1 or 2 techs and take the other from Carthage.

We should be in the middle ages soon.

There is a carthaginian galley outside of cirta, and one near Oea and Konya - the
2 cats bombard Leptis Magna, no damage

The save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/Deity_Ottomans_50_BC.SAV

The cross island jump:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/continental_jump.JPG

glenmetz

Feb 09, 2007, 06:07 AM

Good work, I'VE GOT IT and will play tonight. I'll see if I can finish off Carthage and get some techies from them.

Nitfan

Feb 09, 2007, 09:15 AM

I realize this may be looking a little far down the road but perhaps it would be a good strategic move to make taking that incense city the top priority on our list. Unless we get a foothold on that other continent we're going to need about 25+ galleys for any kind of invasion. Whereas if we could manage to take that city we could shuttle knights/cavs across at our leisure with a few little dinghy's. And obviously the incense the wouldn't either if we could pull it off.:D

I. Larkin

Feb 09, 2007, 10:33 AM

Please, have a look at our SGOTM tread.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 09, 2007, 10:34 AM

Carthage is doubtful on giving it the incense town (Cadiz) to us, even now.

I think, though I'm not sure, that the aztecs are gonna take it pretty soon - it is down to 1, maybe 2 NM, both of which are hurt.

This may be obvious, but I'm not sure it is: the reason I haven't taken Saldae is because I figure that I can leave carthage with it and take the rest of their towns - that way, they will still be scared enough to give us techs. though, maybe it's better to leave them carthage and take Saldae. Not sure - probably doesnt' matter much ;) With our FP, Saldae might be more valuable than Carthage and is on better land, anyway.

glenmetz

Feb 09, 2007, 06:38 PM

Preflight
Change build in Istanbul from Courthouse to Settler and in Izmit from Courthouse to Sword (neither needs a courthouse due to low corruption)

IBT
Carthage wants to talk, but will only give us 2 techs. I'll get what I want from them in a few more turns.
Istanbul Settler->Settler
Iznik Library->Sword
Uskudar Library->Sword
Aydin Library->Sword
Kafa Library->Spear
A Carthage NM lands near Konya

30BC (1)
Sword kills NM near Konya (1-0)
Elite Horse kills NM at Leptis Magna (2-0)
Elite Sword kills NM at Leptis Magna (3-0)
Sword is killed by an Archer at Leptis Magna (3-1)
Sword kills Archer at Leptis Magna (4-1) and
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/LM_falls.JPG
Elite Horsie kills NM (5-1)

The Battle for Saldae
Sword kills NM x2 (7-1)
Horse kills an Archer (8-1)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Saldae_Falls.JPG
Science down to 60, Republic in 3+15

IBT
Edrine Library->Sword
Bursa Library->Sword
Mongols are building Sun Tzus

10BC (2)
Horsie Kills NM (9-1)
Sword kills NM landed near Hadrumetum (10-1)

IBT
NM kills a Horsie (10-2)
Antalya Library->Sword

10AD (3)
The Battle for Theveste
Sword kills a NM x2 (12-2)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Theveste_goes_down.JPG
Sword kills Archer (13-2)
Sword kills NM (14-2)

And I wanted to leave it here. Republic is in next turn. Should I revolt next turn? We have the following available to take out the last 2 cities (I believe) on our continent:
11 Cats
8 Swords
1 Archer
3 Horsies

I think I can finish them off while we revolt. They have cities on another continent that is holding its own. I'll try to get the last 2 cities and make peace for techs. Is this alright with everyone? I'm going to get offline for a bit. Talk it over and let me know. I'll be back in a few hours.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 09, 2007, 06:50 PM

works for me.

Will they give us techs if we can't hurt them, though? I have run into problems with that in the past - taking the last city on a continent and having to sail to them to scare them again? maybe that was an isolated incident. ironically, that was as ottomans, against carthage, in a PTW deity game ;)

Nitfan

Feb 09, 2007, 07:42 PM

I think the courthouses were prebuilds for marketplaces as we should be getting currency next turn since republic will be done.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 09, 2007, 09:25 PM

they were, cause I didnt' really think we needed more settlers or swords... but I think glen made a good choice, cause saldae getting wiped out.

and I agree that you can take down carthage in anarchy without a problem, with the forces you have.

glenmetz

Feb 10, 2007, 08:38 AM

Alright, I'm going back in. I'll get republic in and I'll trade for any other techs I can get. I'll see what I can do to finish off Carthage as well.

glenmetz

Feb 10, 2007, 09:54 AM

IBT
Republic In, Science to Poly for now
Sword defends against a Horsie (15-2)
Istanbul Settler->Settler
Mugla Library->Sword

30AD (4)
Karabuk Founded->Library
Everyone has Republic except India and Carthage
Trade Gandhi Republic for Construction and 2 gold
Trade Montezuma Furs, 50g, and 7GPT for Wines
Trade Temujin Furs for 8g and 6GPT

IBT
Nada

50AD (5)
Elite Horsie kills an Archer (16-2)
Our Galley is sunk by Carthage (16-3)

IBT
Our Horsie impales an Archer and we get another leader!!!! (17-3)

70AD (6)
The Battle for Utica
Elite Sword falls to a NM (17-4)
Elite Sword gets revenge (18-4)
Elite Horsie kills a NM (19-4)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Utica_Falls.JPG
Sword kills a NM near Konya (20-4)

IBT
Horsie defends against an Archer (21-4)

90AD (7)
Horsie Kills NM (22-4)
Cankiri Founded->Library

IBT
Izmit Sword->Sword
Arabs are building Knights Templar

110AD (8)
Just getting troops in place for final push on Carthage

IBT
Aztecs are building Knights Templar
Arabs are building Leos

130AD (9)
Elite Sword kills Archer (23-4)

IBT
Nada

150AD (10)
The Battle for Carthage
Sword Kills NM (24-4)
Horse kills NM (25-4)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/Carthage_falls.JPG
I sue for peace and get Currency, Poly, and 11 gold

And thats it for me. I'm trying to get some units in place along our new borders so no one can plop a city down in the middle of us. We are still in Anarchy. We could certainly use some more Settlers to fill in the territory, and work on getting the infrastructure up. Enjoy.

Heres the save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84973/DW_150AD.SAV)

nerovats

Feb 10, 2007, 12:22 PM

Me up will play tomorrow. What did you do with the leader. I asume you created an army. I think we should and leave it empty for now, not much for it otherwise, but not using it will prevent from getting even luckyer.

glenmetz

Feb 10, 2007, 02:19 PM

I moved the leader to Istanbul for protection, did not create an Army with him. Wanted to leave it up for discussion.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 10, 2007, 06:23 PM

We look good :)

We don't need to do anything with the leader until we go to war again, though the only thing that makes much sense is going to be an army, I think. For that, we need a bunch of galleys, but we need infrastructure, too. We also probably need some embassies, and we really, really, need to find the rest of the world so research of all the techs we are behind is faster.

Am thinking that our next targets are aztecs, for a couple of reasons:

A) Incense.
B) India should be getting war elephants soon, and I want them to blow their GA fighting someone who isn't us.
C) Mongols might be getting their Keshik's soon, and I want them to blow their GA fighting someone who isn't us (Keshiks' are knight replacements, right?)

But libs/markets/harbors are what's key now.

Should we continue building swords? Or should we build horse, to upgrade to knights then cavs later?

glenmetz

Feb 11, 2007, 07:21 AM

We have a lot of Swords, probably close to 25 of them. Horsies/Knights would be good, are we going to beeline tech to Military Tradition? If so, we should stop with the Swords.

nerovats

Feb 11, 2007, 12:24 PM

We probably should stop building units for a while and improve our land. But after that I agree with horses for the upgrade path. Played my HoF huge histo today so will play this one tomorrow.

Nitfan

Feb 11, 2007, 12:35 PM

This idea just came to me, let me know what everyone thinks.

1) Carthage is toast and the war is pretty much over, we need some time to build infrastructure
2) Aztecs are clearly the power leader by about a factor of 2 at this point
3) Every civ on the other continent has a knight UU (Ansars, Keshiks, Jumbos)
4) That aztec city at the bottom of OUR island really pisses me off.

I think in a couple of turns or when we know everyone has chivalry, we attack the aztecs sign everyone in on a dogpile then after we're done building infrastructure and the alliances run out we choose our next target.

glenmetz

Feb 11, 2007, 12:51 PM

I like your thinking, the Aztecs are awfully powerful. The question is if we can get everyone to pile on or not.

I. Larkin

Feb 12, 2007, 06:45 AM

Yes, We have enough Swords. They may serve well after upgrade to MInf.
Sure, we take bottom Atztek City soon and will make MAs (Pay horse, or fur for that). Libraries are main priority now.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 12, 2007, 08:55 AM

if we are lucky, the aztecs will take out that indian city, then we can take both of them...

a 4 way pile on the aztecs will pretty much wipe them out - heck, just the indian war elephants can cause them serious problems.

nerovats

Feb 12, 2007, 01:38 PM

Pre-turn
Change most builds to libs and markets, will get settlers from largest cities
hit enter
170AD
We're a republic and are paying 104 gpt unit support
Change build need to get cities over size 6. Settlers from cities not on river. On river do lib/market. Corrupted cities build galleys for invasion force.
lux on 10%, science on 40%, engineering in 14, -25gpt
190AD
Uskudar settler->settler
210AD
just irrigating/roading
IBT
lux deal ends no way to continue it
230AD
Istanbul riots, go around other cities to prvent further riots
could buy gems from india but cheaper not to
250AD
Antaly settler->settler
IBT
Aztec demand 23 gold, we could use some happiness so decline, Aztecs declare
270AD
we don't get happiness?? Overlook some of small cities and they riot.
Sinop lib->settler
Denizili lib->market
Send some troops to keep up with ships.

Stop here, we don't have gold to get ambassies, just 1 for India. Do we want to try and get MA's or not, at what cost?

147978

Nitfan

Feb 12, 2007, 02:02 PM

What happened on the trading front? Were we able to get anything for Republic from India or did they research it in the meantime?

I think it would be in our best interest to run at +gpt till we can afford embassies, besides it shouldn't take that much gold. I definitely think we should sign in everone if it is at a reasonable cost.

Stating the obvious, let's make sure we disband any non-needed units because that unit support cost is ridiculous.

I. Larkin

Feb 12, 2007, 02:24 PM

We can borrow money for Embassies.
we don't get happiness?? Overlook some of small cities and they riot.
May be trade route was broken? Actually happines more effective for large Cities. I think it will be good to make MA for techs, but don't know.
I will look at save and see. Who's up, BTW?
Looked at the save. We have money to establish embassy in India and send them to War for Feudalism. I thint we even may take gems in repurn. (Not a very good idea to link gem to MA, but better, then nothing). I agree to disband some Warriors. I think it is better to do in combination with sort-rush, in the Cities with 9 spt.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 12, 2007, 02:40 PM

nerovats is part way through his set.

We did trade with india, i am sure - currency? construction? don't remember.

Does india/etc have chivalry yet?

If they have chivalry, bring them in. if not, no reason. I want them to use their GA on the aztecs and not us ;)

nerovats

Feb 13, 2007, 12:07 PM

I didn't finish turnset but pefer next player takes it (bit buisy). I believe Niftan is up. I find feud a bit expensive for MA of gems. We can buy gems but it wouldn't make a lot of differance for happiness. Since India hasn't got feud yet it also doesn't have chivalry. I think if we bring AI in we should invite more, or India will be an easy target and Aztecs will become even stronger. Was also tinking of disbanding some warriors to get science up.

I. Larkin

Feb 13, 2007, 01:59 PM

I find feud a bit expensive for MA of gems. We can buy gems but it wouldn't make a lot of differance for happiness.
It is expensive, but pay gpt for MA or even for Gems not a good idea.
The only worry that trade route will be broken, and reputation gone.
However, may be not, as we paid full price in advance...
Do you think you know all about reputation?

glenmetz

Feb 14, 2007, 06:39 PM

Who is up on this one?

Nitfan

Feb 15, 2007, 04:50 AM

I'm up. I had a busy week and wanted to get our team sgotm in first before I took on this. I'll play later today and post.

Nitfan

Feb 16, 2007, 07:22 AM

Preturn – we have 74g and are running at -24 gpt so I start disbanding rwarrior like it’s my job.

250AD – disband warriors and hit enter after buying an embassy with Mongols.

IBT – Aztecs galleys sail along east coast

270AD – move sword and horses along with galleys, workers work

IBT – nada

280AD - Same as previous turn. I can tell this is going to be a boring turnset. Who wants to build infrastructure and play cat and mouse with a deity AI till we can afford a dogpile.

IBT – Aztec galleys proceed down the coast

290AD - . I just follow them with units so they can’t even land.

IBT – Cuzco completes Sun Tzu’s

300AD – repeat, atleast we can afford an embassy with Arabia next turn. Engineering in 5.

IBT – Mongols declared war on Indians, that’s just great.

310AD – take out Aztec city on our continent and lose a galley attacking a galley. Buy embassy with Arabia. Sign Arabia in against Aztec for furs and horses. We’re going to have to wait 3 turns for the Mongols when the fur deal expires because he wants horses and 20gpt right now.

IBT – Temujin wants alliance vs. the Indians. We clearly have different agendas so we politely decline. The people expand the palace so we get some steps.

320AD – We lose a galley, soon have enough cash for Indians embassy. Engineering in 2.

IBT – Ghandi demands furs! WHAT?! I say no since that is our bargaining chip for the alliance against Aztec luckily he doesn’t declare.

330AD – Buy Indian embassy and move some workers around. Buy Ghandi in for furs. One turn left on fur deal with Mongols, and Engineering in 1.

IBT – Aztecs finish Leo’s, Basra completes Sistine. Arabs are building knights templar, beautiful. Too bad Entremont just finished it.

340AD – We buy Mongols in on Aztecs for Furs/horses and 40g. Aztecs will talk peace already, no thanks.

IBT – Aztecs finish Copernicus, the Koreans have been destroyed. This certainly isn’t a game for the weak.

350AD – Aztecs drop a spear next to an open Bursa but we have a sword and warrior within range. I think Larkin is up next. Not much going on. We need to decide if we are going to be whipping galleys and going after the Aztecs or just sitting around doing nothing. We could probably take that incense city right before we sign peace with them when the alliances run out. We should probably start prepping for that.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106626/Deity_Ottomans_350AD.SAV

I. Larkin

Feb 16, 2007, 03:02 PM

Will play today/ tomorrow as much as can afford...
I think we could do combned deal vs Atzteks...

Nitfan

Feb 16, 2007, 04:44 PM

What do you mean by combined deal with Aztecs?

I. Larkin

Feb 19, 2007, 12:15 PM

What do you mean by combined deal with Aztecs?
I meant spices from mongols for MA, Fur, Horses gpt...
Played until 410 AD. Whant to discuss situation how to attack:
2 Reg musceteers flee avay. What City better 3 or 5 size?
Near 3 we may unload bunch of cats and 2 trebuhets.
Army: 3 MI or 2 MI+Pick or 2 MI+e sword?

AutomatedTeller

Feb 19, 2007, 12:35 PM

Army should have 3 MDI. an elite can't create a leader in an army. Also, putting a pike in that army severely limits it's attack - since that it going to be our main musket behind walls buster, it needs as much attack as it can get.

I think attack cadiz (size 3), cause it gets us incense. Only worry is if it's on a hill. However, size 5 city IS right there.

Aztecs are kind of frightening now, aren't they? They are way ahead in tech....

nerovats

Feb 19, 2007, 12:38 PM

Agree with AT, if we can get just 1 city for now take the incense but I expect we should be able to get both so then go for the largr city firt as we are there.

I. Larkin

Feb 19, 2007, 12:44 PM

I also think about size3 The no point is cat/Trebu may stay near size 5. Who next after me? Agree with 3 MI army.
Will finish turnset today.

nerovats

Feb 19, 2007, 01:01 PM

1. Nitfan
2. I. Larkin - Playing
3. Automated Teller - On deck
4. Glenmetz
5. Nerovats

AutomatedTeller

Feb 19, 2007, 03:17 PM

I;m after you - I'm fine with either target.

I. Larkin

Feb 20, 2007, 09:14 AM

0 350 AD Well, it is spear near Bursa. Have to know about that. Sword die vs spear. Move spear to protect Bursa. What to do with all coliseums? Never build it... Let it be one. Change others for smth more useful.
We need gro 7+ Cities support more units. Make irrigate and re-irrigate.
Pillage Fur, which may go to India.
IBT Aztecs Galleys sail west
1 360 AD Pull troops NW. Set Tax 50%, Lux 20%. Kill 2/4 Spear.
IBT Aztecs Galley sunk vs our.
2 370 AD Nothing
IBT Aztecs Galleys ...
3 380 AD The same
IBT Aztecs Galley unload Jag.
4 390 AD Cats redlined Galley and Jag. Kill Jag. Unload on M near Russidir 2 e Swords..
IBT Aztecs Caravel from Russiddir sunk our Galley.
5 400 AD Anload Army, MI Archer and Pickman to M
IBT Aztecs Galleys sail around NE point... 2 reg Musk ran from Cadiz and Russiddir.
6 410 AD
IBT Aztecs Caravels fight vs our Galleys.
7 420 AD Move troops to Cadiz.
IBT Aztecs Galleys and Aztecs Caravels fight vs our Galleys.
8 430 AD Siege Cadiz. Trebuhets destroyed Barracs and Hardor. Cats failed. Form 3 MI Army. Kill v Musk. E* sword killed Musk. E sword die vs Musk -> 3/5. Second short Army killed 3/5 Musk. Cadiz Ours, 3 workers, 3 resistors, no improuvements.
IBT Cadiz Riots. Aztecs unload 2 musk on Fimiam Hill. India and Azteks make peace.
9 440 AD Bombard and Kill musketeers. Move Army North. India at war with Mongols. Mongol s will pay "virtually" 20 gpt for MA. Make MA for Invention paying 23 gpt (instead or 43 withot MA.) It will be nice if India die soon.
IBT Aztecs troops approach. Mongol make peace with Aztecs. Indian Galley sail west.
10 450 AD Bombard SoD (2 P+ 2 Mi) Kill 2 MI with E Sword and E horse. No Leader. Sword kill Indian Spear. Pull MI to take or destroy Far East Indian City.
We have horses and Fur to trade with Mongols. Unfortunately they have no money. But we may bring them back to MA (not a good idea, because of WW). Or Spices for Horse, Fur + gpt. this, I think better.
Aztecs redy to pay for peace, but MA with Arabs do not allow to do that.

I. Larkin

Feb 20, 2007, 09:29 AM

Here is the save. The pime goal to hold Cadiz, I think.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 20, 2007, 10:12 AM

are we at war with India? I'm up next and I'll get it tonight

I. Larkin

Feb 20, 2007, 10:37 AM

are we at war with India? I'm up next and I'll get it tonight
Sure we are. You know me... They should be punished for canceling MA

nerovats

Feb 20, 2007, 12:08 PM

What to do with all coliseums? Never build it...

I never build them as well. They don't seem to make up for the cost. 2 upkeep as well. Are the coliseums build, or can they be changed?

glenmetz

Feb 20, 2007, 12:14 PM

In a Warmongering game the Colusseums are kind of pointless. Better the build Libraries for Sci boost or set corrupt cities to build bombard units or wealth.

I. Larkin

Feb 20, 2007, 12:29 PM

I never build them as well. They don't seem to make up for the cost. 2 upkeep as well. Are the coliseums build, or can they be changed?
I changed all but one (in Istanbul) It was close to finish and nothing useful I could do. We may sell it wth the same effect as welth, but may be not (If WW for example)

AutomatedTeller

Feb 20, 2007, 12:31 PM

why did we have colloseums being built at all? I assume they were prebuilds for something...

the only time I ever build them are:

20K games (1 only)
100K games (when I run out of better builds, and then not a lot)
milk games.

I. Larkin

Feb 21, 2007, 09:51 AM

why did we have colloseums being built at all? I assume they were prebuilds for something...

I did not found any comments about colloseums at Nitfan's turnlog. But the only thing I could change it was Corthouse. Also useless in the Capital. I decided to live it as it is, probably it may help with WW, or when City will grow above 12. Unfortunatly it was finished befor HE was possible. BTW will we build it or wait for next leader?

nerovats

Feb 21, 2007, 09:51 AM

I also use them as pre-builds, but only complete them in theh cases AT mentioned accept milk runs, as then I would hit 100K before 2050. Besides in milking I keep lux at 10% for most of the game so I hardly build any culture at all, just some libs/unis in the start, which I sell lateron to not get an expansion wen just 2 tiles under limit.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 21, 2007, 03:27 PM

I have got it.

AutomatedTeller

Feb 21, 2007, 04:31 PM

I opened up the save - we have a granary being built in mugla and kafa, and I'm not sure why.
Mugla could use a courthouse - goes from 20-10% corrupt, which is currently break even from a cost point of view and gives mugla an extra shield.
Kafa could use a harbor.

Unless someone tells me different, I'm going to switch those builds from granary to courthouse/harbor.

glenmetz

Feb 21, 2007, 08:36 PM

Roll with it

AutomatedTeller

Feb 23, 2007, 12:47 AM

Highlights
We managed to keep Cadiz, even in the face of muskets and knights and no defensive units.
We researched gunpowder and HAVE SALTPETER!! (The world trembled at the thought of Sipahi...)
We are trading for spices
No one has chemistry,so we might be able to get a monopoly.
I sent 3 galleys to explore west of arabia
we are at peace with aztecs, but not india
Lowlights
Arabs have navigation, at least.
We lost the army in the defense of Cadiz :(

Details

Preflight
Trade Horses, furs, 5 gpt to mongols for spices
Micromanage a bunch of cities to keep from rioting
Some get geeks, some just higher commerce tiles

IBT - more muskets and knights head our way...

460 AD

470 AD -> Denizli->market

480AD

eSword redlines indian spear and dies
rMDI dies and promotes indian spear
vSword kills indian spear
vWarrior kills indian archer - that little town has a lot of defenders

everybody, btw, has gunpowder, so we won't be able to trade - I'm going to send a galley off
to try to find the other continent.

Aztecs are willing to pay for peace - I will hold off until it won't mess up the
treaty, but there are a lot of muskets heading our way...

IBT - lose pike and 3 MDI

Aztec move 4 muskets onto plains east of Cadiz

490 AD - Aztecs land pike/mdi north of carthage. Move some guys around off of the galleys,
vMDI kills pike
eSword dies on MDI
vSword kills MDI

Bombard muskets on plains

vMDI kills musket
eSword kills musket
vSword kills musket
eHorse redlines but kills redlined musket

Rush barracks in cadiz

IBT - aztecs move our last guy off the incense
galley impales itself on our galley

500 AD

Istanbul pike->Heroic epic
Army kills musket

IBT

Knight impales itself on army, muskets pillage improvement

510 AD

e* horse kills indian spear
vhorse redlines spear and dies

IBT - knight kills army :(

520 AD WW kicks in

vHorse kills indian spear and we raze dacca, getting a slave

Make peace with aztecs and get 120 gold
Sacrifice an archer in cadiz
Rush harbor

We had to make peace - we didnt' have any defenders up in cadiz, and they had 20 or so units
nearby, 12 muskets, the rest knights, MDI and long bows.

Trade Horses and furs to arabs for Gunpowder, 228 gold and 3 gpt

We have saltpeter!! just south of Leptis Magna. Chemistry due in 15 turn.
No one has chemistry, btw, so we might well be able to leverage it and catch up in techs

IBT - Aztecs tell our galley to leave. we say ok, but stick around anyway

530 AD

Sinop aqueduct->Market
Izmit Pike->Musket
Everybody stops rioting
We get some posts and outbuildings for hte palace

Rename 3 galleys to suicide #1-3 - the idea is that they will go and test the suicide crossing
near arabia.

IBT
Arabs are building magellans
Indians land an MDI north of carthage

IBT - mongols don't like us in their territory, we say we will go, but of course,
the galleys will stay

Uskudar court->aqueduct

Lose track of city growth, so aydin and mugla riot. Give them geeks.

We can trade for gems or wines with aztecs - I didn't make the deal, in case someone else
had a better idea

I have 3 regular galleys moving to try the suicide route west of arabia, to
see if we can contact the other continent.

The save:

I. Larkin

Mar 02, 2007, 11:49 AM

As usual 1 person up in both games...

glenmetz

Mar 02, 2007, 04:56 PM

Who is up in the puppy?

I. Larkin

Mar 05, 2007, 09:35 AM

Who is up in the puppy?
Glenmetz is.

glenmetz

Mar 05, 2007, 10:28 AM

Oh, I've got it, will play tonight after SGOTM

glenmetz

Mar 05, 2007, 06:31 PM

Preflight
MM a bit, a few cities were going to riot. Science at 60, Chem in 8+13GPT with 1 beaker (the rest taxies)

IBT
Aydin Horsie->MDI
Kafka Pike->MDI
Mugla Horsie->MDI
Riza Harbor->Library (its borders must grow to be able to work more sea tiles)

560AD (1)
Not much, just workers and stuff

IBT
Carthage and Arabia sign a Alliance against the Aztecs (this may be our time to jump in)
Chiconautla Library->Harbor

570AD (2)
Change builds:
Bingol Courthouse->Library (needs to expand to work more tiles)
Tunceli Library->Duct
Yozgat Library->Harbor
Oea Courthouse->Duct
Leptis Magna Courthouse->Duct
Theveste Courthouse->Duct
Hippo Courthouse->Duct
Sinop Market->Courthouse
Ankara Market->Courthouse
Denizli Market->Musket
Sivas Courthouse->Harbor

IBT
Edrine Musket->Musket (start putting garrisons in border cities)
Ankara Courthouse->Musket
Karabek Courthouse->Duct

580AD (3)
Drop Science down to 50, buy a couple beakers. Chem in 5+24GPT

IBT
Denizli Musket->Musket
Zonguldak Market->Courthouse
Aztecs are building Magellans

590AD (4)
zzzzz

IBT
Bursa Musket->MDI
Aydin MDI->MDI
Cirta Harbor->Wealth
Mugla MDI->MDI
Bingol Library->Wealth

Sorry I didn't play more, got lots to do tonight.

I. Larkin

Mar 06, 2007, 09:36 AM

If glenmetz finish here nerovats up. Why don't we trade with Acteck?

nerovats

Mar 06, 2007, 10:27 AM

Seen this will take closer look tomorrow or after diner. If several civs already teamed up we might enter ourselves. But I will need to catch up in this one first, have mostly foccused on sgotm.

nerovats

Mar 07, 2007, 12:10 PM

Sorry, got home lot later then expected. Now it'll probably be saerday before I have enougtime to play decent tunset, so if anyone can take it before that we can swap.

nerovats

Mar 10, 2007, 04:27 AM

Pre-turn
mm all cities, why have taxmen if there are scientists? Also adjust size 6 cities for growth, need to decrease unit support.
Load units up for our war with India
Will send some galleys on suicide missions
Get gems from Aztec for incense and furs
Change all unit builds to horsies, will have MT in 20 turns or so
610AD
moving
IBT
Aztec boot us from their land
620AD
Chemistry in, Arbas got it too.
sell it to Aztec for wine 48gpt 80 gold and WM
also give it to Mongols for mono.
Science to metalurgy in 8
630AD
Istanbul Heroic epic->horse
Iznik court->harbor
unload 20 units next to Chittagong
640AD
both suicides sink
Land 2 settlers as well, will first settle the cities otherwise the Aztec border will expand and we can't settle anymore
settle Tokat
650AD
Bomard Chita there are 2 1hp pikes will kill one of them first elite loses, but second makes up and give leader.
660AD
settlers in Place will take Indian city next turn and craete army in it
670AD
our 3rd galley sinks
settle Van and Not Constantinople
Take Chittagong

Decide to stop and make sure we want army with leader. Metalurgy will be in in 2 MT will take 7 so in 10 turns we can have a cavalry army and do some real damage.
After we get MT I suggest to stop science an upgrade all horsies.
We now have 24, by then we should have about 45. The AI just got Chivalry, and we can make peace with India next turn, they can only offer some workers though.

Some units can still move, Leader is next to Chittagong. I think we should research asap, upgrade most 20-30 horses and craete army, attack Aztec and sign MA's with the others.

149487

Niftan up
Ivan on deck