I like longer games and usually play marathon or epic games and I ALWAYS have a problem with barbs. I'm thinking that plus my large map size is my problem. It seems that right around the time I get my 4th city they become a huge pain. I am trying to play on monarch and the difficulty makes this nearly impossible for me.

Seems as though if I don't go for protection I get overwhelmed by lots of barbs. If I do add in extra units I cripple my research and with the added setback of high difficulty, it's really hard to over come.

The current game I'm in I had to go about 5-10 tiles away from my capital for my first source of copper. I have been going 2 workers then settler in my capital and by the time I got my copper connected I was already seeing large amounts of barbs coming at me.

It got to one point where I was just fed up with it and I went to world builder to see if the computer was getting the same thing and there were all of like 3 barb units near AI civs when there were a total of like 5 near my cities.

I think my problem may be that the AI grows so much faster and that keeps them away from the AI which in turn forces them to come more after me which seems rather unfair.

I'm wondering if other people who have large barb problems play long big games too.

Given how barbs spawn, a bigger map with longer build times will definitely produce more of them. There are also, of course, more barbs with each difficulty level. I myself noticed a considerable jump in barb activity when I went from Prince to Monarch.

The way I deal with them is to make them synergistic with my early game strategy. Specifically, yes, I'll be building lots of units to fend them off, and that may mean I fall behind a bit. But those units will earn XPs, and once the initial barb rush is over, I'll send my experienced and promoted units out against a neighbouring civ. Once that war is over, I'll have more territory, cities, and population to help me catch up.

On the other hand, I'm now playing Warlords. If I'm playing as an Industrious leader, or if I have stone, and especially if I have both, I'll build the Great Wall and not have to worry about barbs for the rest of the game. :D

Overall, however, what I'd like to see is a game control on the level of barb activity like Civ II used to have. There seem to be only three levels right now: none, normal, and raging. I think having five barb activity levels (none, low, medium, high, raging) would satisfy most players.

Also: on marathon for some reason they set the barb spawn rate at 400% of normal setting instead of 300% which would be right - this makes barbs spawn about 1.5x as often on marathon...

Well I'm starting to see the value of the great wall. I mean this last game i was playing I had 2 axemen and a warrior in each of my 3 cities. Everything was great..... until the swarm came. At one point one of my cities had an archer an axe 2 warriors. Another had 1 axe and 1 warrior and my capital had an archer and a warrior coming at it. That would have been fine however every 2 or so turns a new bar was spawing and my units weren't getting enough time to heal.

So I quit that game and I decided to try a new approach with the great wall. On the plus side it also will generate GE points so I might be able to steal another wonder later on.

Yeah great wall rocks. Play raging barbs, build the great wall, and let the AI deal with all them barbarians :lol:

AI civs can suffer from barbarian problems too. On one huge marathon game I played, AI Gandhi actually got himself wiped out early on by a barb axerush (which was a right pain in the arse for me, since I was on a large continent with only him and Mansa for company; my friendly fast-teching continent, with the major space-race tech-maniacs next door for convenient late-game stomping, was utterly ruined).

Nevertheless, it does seem to me that the barbs have a particular taste for human-player blood (although perhaps I'm still not getting my fogbusters out there quick enough...).

One way of reducing the barb threat on larger maps is simply to put more civs in; with 18 civs on a huge map you'll meet a lot less barbs (and the threat will die out much quicker) than if there's only 10 civs. The possible downside, of course, is that you'll come up against the AI civs much quicker.

I don't like marathon, but I can very well remember another cause of barb nuisance :
chinese scenario in warlords. If you play the western most family (can't remember the name), you get all those barbs coming for you, while other families don't seem to have any problem. The great wall was really an economic build for me there! (the only way to keep any tile improvement)

to me that the barbs have a particular taste for human-player blood

I agree. It seems that when a barb can choose which way to go-- towards me or an AI he will invariably choose me.

I get a lot more barbarians on pangaea maps than inland sea. I also get more barbarians if I'm located at the extreme north or south (near tundra) of a pangaea map.

Since chariots now have the 100% attack bonus against axemen, I find that getting horses is much more important than getting copper - at least for dealing with barbarians. I usually end up getting BW before AH, but if there isn't any danger of losing the copper to another Civ, I may very well go for the horses first. Then I build some chariots, and attack incoming barbarian axemen. If I get a barbarian archer, I try to position my chariot so the archer will attack it, ideally across a river.

I dimly remember reading a post some time ago - the poster claimed that when he took away the AI bonuses against barbarians, and selected Raging Barbarians, he could beat Deity. (He took some flak from other posters, of course.) I found it interesting, because it points out just how big a factor barbarians are in the game.

I always go for horses first, and they are never a problem, now.

Great Wall rocks, indeed. Marathon speed does seem to produce more (thanks for the math update) and given my inability to intercept them before they trash my improvements, I'll try to build the GW any time I'm not hemmed in (and fog busted) by the AI.

I love when barbs are a pain, as Sisiutil said. Use the experienced units to wack your neighbor. I don't think they go after you any more then the AI though. EX:

My current game is marathon, large, continents, monarch and raging barbs(i always do raging, I love barbs for some reason). I added 2 extra civs for a total of 11 i think. Early on there was a message stating "Chinese have been destroyed". I though wow, maybe Alex went at it early or something. I just discovered a continent to my N, all barbs, with Beijing and a few other Chinese cities lol. I am with Izzy on my continent, and they have sacked 2 of her cites, though I think she has them back now. I think it really depend on starting location, I am surrounded ocean on 3 sides which only allows them to come at me one way. I have lots of 10xp units waiting to stomp Izzy soon hehe.

Also: on marathon for some reason they set the barb spawn rate at 400% of normal setting instead of 300% which would be right - this makes barbs spawn about 1.5x as often on marathon...
that value doesnt say how often barbs spawn.. its how early...
it simply means 4 times as many turns has to pass in the game before human barbs and barb cities start to appear compared to normal speed (so it makes barbs less common than if the value had been 300)

A fairly standard reply from me: get those fogbusters out the door. In my current game (Vanilla Civ, Large Map, Epic Speed, Pangea) I did have some problems with barbarians in the early game, because the entire centre of the landmass was uninhabited. That was near me, and the other AI civs were at the corners. So the barbs came visiting me in hordes after a while. It was a nuisance because I was in the middle of my builtup, but I had to deal with them anyway. Well, I built lots of archers, and lost quite a few, but when I finally had 5 or so set up in the hills around my borders, the barb wave suddenly stopped. Had I thought about it a bit earlier, my expansion would have been much smoother.

Archers are cheap, and with barracks you can give them instant hill defense and this deals with the barbs. They always attack them when they see them.

I know, it's some very old and standard advice, but it really works.

--Sigi

A fairly standard reply from me: get those fogbusters out the door. In my current game (Vanilla Civ, Large Map, Epic Speed, Pangea) I did have some problems with barbarians in the early game, because the entire centre of the landmass was uninhabited. That was near me, and the other AI civs were at the corners. So the barbs came visiting me in hordes after a while. It was a nuisance because I was in the middle of my builtup, but I had to deal with them anyway. Well, I built lots of archers, and lost quite a few, but when I finally had 5 or so set up in the hills around my borders, the barb wave suddenly stopped. Had I thought about it a bit earlier, my expansion would have been much smoother.

Archers are cheap, and with barracks you can give them instant hill defense and this deals with the barbs. They always attack them when they see them.

I know, it's some very old and standard advice, but it really works.

--SigiIt only works in standard. In warlords, the barbs ignore fogbusters and go for your improvements.

The way to deal with barb is get your fog busters out early. You don't need to station any unit in city early on, get them out station em on forested hills, and watch where you build your early improvements, If you have a choice don't build on the path barbs most likely to walk through. This worked for me with raging barb on deity level on huge maps. after promoting my archer with hill defense 2, he can hold against axe barb no problem. And once I start pumping out axe man, barbs no longer a problem.

beckdawg, the thing to keep in mind is that the AI gets great bonuses against the Barbs-- I once saw an AI Warrior survive an attack by a Barb Axe in open ground. The AI can send out Archers to beat Axemen, and win consistently. I've also seen the AI getting resources pillaged as late as 1 AD, because they won't leave a city without a certain minimum number of defenders. If you send Missionaries out in the early game, I think you'll see a fair number of Barbs harassing your neighbors. At least they do in Warlords.

Yes, the Great Wall is worth the hammers as a gamble. It also makes Great Artists more appealing, because you can use your borders to shunt Barbs into an opponent if you're on the right map; on Oasis, for instance, all those Barbs coming out of the desert wastes will help slow down the AI seizing that prime territory.

On Warlords, I find myself chopping my lil butt off for the Great Wall. Yes I could be building units with those hammers, but in the end I break even because I don't lose units to the AI. And most importantly I don't get pilliaged. And early GE points are double yummy scrumptious. My science city usually has crappy hammers due to town-o-rama so it helps get the great library there

The way to deal with barb is get your fog busters out early. You don't need to station any unit in city early on, get them out station em on forested hills, and watch where you build your early improvements, If you have a choice don't build on the path barbs most likely to walk through. This worked for me with raging barb on deity level on huge maps. after promoting my archer with hill defense 2, he can hold against axe barb no problem. And once I start pumping out axe man, barbs no longer a problem.Good advice on the fogbusters and especially about planning your improvements (in the sea is great). But can you really divert to a hunting--> archery tech path on Deity level?

[QUOTE=Naismith;4891451]I get a lot more barbarians on pangaea maps than inland sea. I also get more barbarians if I'm located at the extreme north or south (near tundra) of a pangaea map. /[QUOTE]

Reminds me of that Led Zeppelin song -- We come from the land of ice and snow, from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow...

God I hate barbarians.

The animals aren't bad. But sometimes it's a huge pain when they send axeman after axeman. I lost in a battle with 96.7% chance of winning...

I turn them off :-P

barbs is a double edge sword, especially at emperor and above difficulty. You won't like them when they over run your country side. But they are a blessing when they fill your neighbors backyard. sometimes they settle down which prevents AI to grab all the lands and you get a free city without building settler.

barbs is a double edge sword, especially at emperor and above difficulty. You won't like them when they over run your country side. But they are a blessing when they fill your neighbors backyard. sometimes they settle down which prevents AI to grab all the lands and you get a free city without building settler.

Yes, and no chance of that city flipping back. And no diplo penalties for Declaring War on our Friend.

I sorta wish barbs were more like the warlord scenario in that you have a "camp" unit. If you kill that unit the hoard will stop for awhile until another camp is spawned.

To me that would be more realistic as generally speaking barbarians are led by a leader and if he's killed it tends to stop attacks.... for awhile anyways. Overall though, i just hate them on monarch. I mean I'm holding my own vs the other AI's until I get pounded on by barbs usually. And I realize I can just turn them off but.... well it feels like cheating.

I may try some things suggested in here though. Normally I have just been massing axemen and protecting my city with 3-4 of them. I also try to fog bust near places that keep spawning barbs. it seems to help. Though I will say I get increasingly pissed off when i lose with 85%+ chance of winning and then the next turn I attack the guy with a 50-60% chance of winning and lose.

fogbusting is much better than massing units!
why?
1) because you have less barbs to fight
2) because you can fortify in good defensive terrain
3) because it avoids tile pillaging