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Kal-el
Apr 06, 2002, 03:19 AM
well, after months of planning here is a beta version of my Double your Pleasure mod.

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[dance] Version 1.o1r for Vanilla Civ3 is OUT NOW! [dance]

[dance] Version 2.02x for PtW is also available! [dance]

Get it at The Double Your Pleasure Website (http://civ3.bernskov.com)

It is available as a 1 (that's One) file download.

Have fun :D

**************************************************
I have removed the old readme data as it is no longer applicable. I am working on updating the readme but that may take a while.

Kal-el
Apr 06, 2002, 03:46 AM
edit:I have removed the old readme data as it is no longer applicable. I am working on updating the readme but that may take a while.

Kal-el
Apr 06, 2002, 04:46 AM
Change Log:

Note - the most of Civilopedia entries are still not finished - see the changelog below to find out which ones can be assumed to be trustworthy.
-----------------------------------------
v.0.2 will fix the following errors:
-----------------------------------------
citizens will no longer have prerequisite techs
Ancient Age Science Advisor: Mining has been moved over to line up with the rest of the starting techs.
Industrial Ages Science Advisor: there is an arrow pointing from industrialization to guerilla warfare
Communism now requires Marxism
Fascism now requires Totalitarianism- the free units will be fixed
Civil Liberties: The arrow from Radio has been moved so that it actually points to Civil Liberties.
Longships will now turn to attack, just like other early ships.
The Circus Maximus will require the 4 coliseums it was supposed to.
Egyptian War Chariot now upgrades to Knights
You will no longer be prompted to build hospitals to raise city levels
Basic Barbarian will now be the Barbarian Warrior
Advanced Barbarian will be the Barbarian Rider
Plains will be switched from 3/1/1 to 2/2/1
National Health Care will point to the right Wondersplash
Actually did lower the player advantage versus barbarians

Starting techs will be fixed:
-Commercial - The Wheel - was alphabet
-Expansionistic - Farming - Was Pottery
-Industrious - Mining - was Masonry
-Militaristic - Warrior Code - used to have option of wheel
-Religious - Ceremonial Burial
-Scientific - Alphabet - was bronze working

-----------------------------------------
Additons:
-----------------------------------------
Trait Specific Units will be added – these units are still up in the air. Iam adding them in so they can be playtested for balance.
-Commercial - Caravan
-Expansionistic - Ranger
-Industrious - Serf
-Militaristic - Brave
-Religious - Missionary
-Scientific – Greek Fire
New Units:
-Convoy - Available with Guilds – Caravan unit for everybody
-Freight - available with Motorized Transportation – Modern Caravan unit
Change to Truck – now available with Mobile Warfare instead of Motorized Transportation

New Tech City - Planning: Requires Steel, Allows Park and Eiffel Tower.

New Improvement - Park: Requires City Planning, adds happiness reduces industrial pollution.

-----------------------------------------
v.0.3 - First One-File Release
-----------------------------------------
Changes:
-----General
Gathered all currently finished files in one Zip file for easier installation (hopefully)
Added SnOOpy's/Icedan's artwork for Irrigation, to closer resemble farming.
Added Civilopedia.txt
Added Version.txt
Edit: Fixed Tech Boxes to be compatible with patch v1.21f
Edit: Fixed Ancient Science Advisor Screen to be compatible with patch v1.21f
Edit: Irrigation changed to Farm
Edit: Road movement rate changed to 2 (Instead of 3)
Edit: Standard tile penalty removed from Despotism
Edit: Golden Age increased to 30 turns
Edit: Maximum Research Time increased to 50 turns
Edit: Fixed Civilopedia Icons (Mis-spelled BLDG_ entries) for several wonders and improvements
Deleted some obsolete files in Art/Units folders, and updated a few Unit .ini files
-----Units
Added: Caravan Animations, using Camel unit
Added: Implemented new HP system
Edit: Longship renamed Longboat
Edit: Caravan renamed Merchant
Edit: Convoy renamed Caravan
Edit: Pediaicons.txt edited to remove all references to non-existing files
Edit: Fixed missing Foot Unit flags to many units
Edit: Fixed Rotate to Attack flags for Brig and Longboat
Edit: Fixed missing PRTO_ entry for Spy unit
Edit: Tribe now treats all terrain as roads
-----Improvements
Edit: Temple now requires Incense
Edit: Library now requires Marble
Edit: Walls now require Stone
Edit: Forge now requires Iron
Edit: Port now requires Timber
Edit: Shipyard now requires Timber
Edit: Basilica now requires Marble
Edit: Steel Mill now requires Iron and Coal
Edit: Energy Grid now requires Copper
Edit: Pyramids cost decreased to 350 shields
Edit: Obelisk cost increased to 40 shields
Edit: "Must be near water" flag removed for Port and Shipyard, as it seemed to cause a bug
-----Resources
Ivory has been renamed Elephants and has been moved to Strategic Resources
Dyes have been removed
Added: New Resources
The Resources List:
Horses - Available with The Wheel
Iron - Available with Mining
Saltpeter - Available with Invention
Coal - Available with Steam Engine
Oil - Available with Refining
Rubber - Available with Replaceable Parts
Aluminum - Available with Rocketry
Uranium - Available with Fission
Flax - Available with Crop Rotation
Copper - Available with Mining
Marble - Available with Masonry
Stone - Available from Start
Elephants - Available with Warrior Code

Furs - Available from Start
Gems - Available with Bronze Working
Silks - Available with Weaving
Spices - Available from Start
Tobacco - Available with Crop Mysticism
Wine - Available with Pottery
Coffee - Available with Farming
Incense - Available with Ceremonial Burial

Game - Available from Start
Seal - Available from Start
Cattle - Available with Domestication
Sheep - Available with Domestication
Wheat - Available with Farming
Corn - Available with Farming
Fruit - Available from Start
Tropical Fruit - Available from Start
Fish - Available with Pottery
Whales - Available with Astronomy
Pearls - Available with Boat Building
Oasis - Available from Start
Silver - Available with Mining
Gold - Available with Mining
----------------------------------------
v.0.3.1 - Will Change/Fix the following
---------------------------------------
Edit: Changed Plains to produce 2/1/0 (was 2/2/1)
Edit: Changed Grassland to produce 2/0/1 (was 3/0/1)
Edit: Changed Coast to produce 2/0/2 (was 3/0/1)
Edit: Entertainers only make one citizen happy (was 2 people)
Edit: Iron now becomes available with mining (as it was supposed to have been in v.0.3)
Edit: Pearls now available with Farming
Edit: Fixed Appearance/Disappearance rate for Resources
Edit: Fixed some issues with Units and Required Resources
Edit: Fixed some upgrade issues
------------------------------------
v.0.3.2 - Will Add/Fix the following
-----------------------------------
Please note: The primary purpose of this patch is to gather the files from patch 0.3.1 and the DyP_v03_Buildings.zip. It also includes an updated PediaIcons.txt which should fix most of the problems with Icons in the Civilopedia.
------------------------------------
Files Added/changed
------------------------------------
Updated Civilopedia Icons for Buildings and Wonders
Added Build Queue Images for Buildings and Wonders
Added Palette fix
Updated Resource images
Updated Unit Icons
Updated Pediaicons.txt
------------------------------------
v.0.3.3 - Will Fix/Change the Following
------------------------------------
Added: Civilopedia Icons for almost all resources
Fixed: Removed timber as requirement for Port (the most likely cause for the "Harbor bug")
Fixed: Missing nationality flags for Fighter unit
Edit: Gunship can now kill ground units
Edit: Social Democracy now requires maintenance but has communal corruption.
Edit: Terrain changes:
Before (Natural-Worked) NOW
---Desert.......- 0 1 1 - 1 1 1......0 1 0 - 1 1 1
---Grassland....- 2 0 1 - 2 0 1......2 0 0 - 1 1 1
---Tundra.......- 0 0 0 - 0 2 1......0 0 0 - 0 1 1
---Hills........- 1 2 0 - 1 2 1......1 2 1 - 1 2 1
---Mountains....- 0 3 0 - 0 2 1......0 3 1 - 0 2 1
---Forest.......- 1 2 0 - 0 1 1......1 1 1 - 0 1 1
---Jungle.......- 2 1 0 - 0 2 1......1 0 0 - 0 0 1
Edit: Resource changes:
---Timber from 0/1/1 to 0/1/0
---Tobacco from 0/0/3 to 0/0/2
---Silver from 0/1/3 to 0/1/2
---Gold from 0/0/4 to 0/1/3
Fixed: Added missing PRTO_Spy entry
Fixed: Civilopedia: Effects pages added for buildings (Improvements and wonders)
(Re)Fixed: Civilopedia Icons for certain Improvements, wonders, units and resources.
------------------------------------
v.0.4 - Will Fix/Change the Following
------------------------------------
Edit: Aluminum now appears when Steel is developed
Edit: Freight no longer requires any resources to build
Edit: Changed HumVee is no longer wheeled
Edit: Fixed Stirrup is a prequisite for Chivalry
Edit: Changed Capacity of helicopter from 1 to 2
Edit: Changed Capacity of Truck from 4 to 3
Edit: Changed truck no longer upgrades to HumVee
Edit: Changed Aluminum now Appears with discovery of Steel
Edit: Supermarket now give +50% luxury and 1 happy face
Edit: Modern Farm gives +25% to production
Fixed: Added missing operational range of 4 to PPS-15 unit.
Edit: Changed (mostly increased) cost and maintenance for almost all Improvements and wonders.
Edit: Changed (mostly increased) cost for a lot of units.
Edit: Changed (mostly increased) cost for almost all techs.
Edit: Spirit of St. Louis now produces +1 trade in each tile already producing trade (used to be +1 ship movement).
Edit: Elephant resource now available with Warrior Code.
Edit: Theater trait flag set to Religious.
Edit: Palace now has a maintenance of 2.
Edit: Fascism now has Problematic corruption.
Edit: Unit support costs and support capability have changed to:
Unit Free Support per
Government Cost Units Town / City / Metropolis
Despotism 1 1 1 / 1 / 1
Monarchy 1 0 2 / 3 / 4
Communist 2 0 3 / 6 / 10
Republic 2 0 2 / 4 / 6
Democracy 2 0 2 / 3 / 4
Theocracy All
Federal Rep 4 0 1 / 1 / 1
Social Democ 3 0 1 / 1 / 1
Fascist 2 0 3 / 6 / 10
Note: These data, esp. those for the later governments, probably still needs tweaking.
Edit: Changed/Added culture ratings:
---humbled by : 4/1 35 30 20
---in awe of : 3/1 30 40 30
---admirers of : 2/1 25 50 40
---impressed with : 1/1 20 60 50
---unimpressed by : 3/4 15 70 60
---dismissive of : 1/2 10 80 70
---disdainful of : 1/3 5 90 80
---laughing at : 1/4 3 100 90
Added Experience Level "Green" in between "Conscript" and "Regular" HP = 3
---Note: Barracks/Palace & similar now produce Regular units, not Veteran. Units built in cities without Barracks or similar, will start as Green units.
Added: Retreat bonuses by experience level starting with Conscript: 0, 15, 30, 45, 60
Fixed: Land Mine, Naval Mine, Airbase and Radar Station now flagged as foot units to make them load onto transports/airdrop
Edit: Minimum Population for We Love The__ day now 5
Edit: Minimum Research Time now 3
Edit: AI to AI trade rates by level beginning with Chieftain: 100, 103, 106, 109, 112, 115
Edited Resources:
---Horses now 1/0/1
---Coffee now 1/0/2
Edit: No more Tropical Fruit
Added Rice Resource

Fixed: Terrain changes were botched by the release manager in patch 0.3.3
-- Terrain values should now be: (Natural - Worked)
---Desert - 0 1 0 - 1 1 1
---Plains - 2 1 0 - 1 1 1
---Grassland - 2 0 1 - 2 0 1
---Tundra - 0 0 0 - 0 1 1
---Floodplain - 4 0 0 - 2 1 1
---Hills - 1 2 0 - 1 2 1
---Mountains - 0 3 0 - 0 2 1
---Forest - 1 2 0 - 0 1 1
---Jungle - 1 1 0 - 0 1 1
---Coast - 2 0 2 - 0 0 0
---Sea - 1 1 1 - 0 0 0
---Ocean - 0 0 0 - 0 0 0
------------------------------------
v.0.4.5 - will Fix/Change the Following
------------------------------------
Fixed: Graphic issues with Grunt Unit
Fixed: Graphic issue with Mid-Eastern academy in Civilopedia (using roman icons for now)
Fixed: Graphic issue with PPS-15 and Freight units, in Civilopedia
Fixed: Missing Government icons in Tech Chooser
Updated: Script.txt
Updated: In-game resource icons (Resources.pcx)
Updated: Build list icons for buildings (Buildings-large.pcx and Buildings-small.pcx)
------------------------------------
v.0.4.6
-----------------------------------
Fixed: Bug with script.txt which made the game un-startable to some users
-------------------------------------
v.0.4.7
------------------------------------
Added: Missing Partisan animations
Fixed: Partisan.ini file

edit:I need to update this post.

Kal-el
Apr 06, 2002, 04:49 AM
------------------------------------
v.0.7.5
-----------------------------------
*Misc
- Edit: Diplomats can now steal world maps
- Edit: Civilization colors have been changed.
- Edit: Barbarians now use Longboats instead of Galleys
*Units
- Edit: Barbarian Warrior now uses original Swordsman artwork.
- Edit: Swordsman unit now uses different artwork.
- Edit: Armies can now pillage tile improvements
- Edit: Previous Tank unit renamed Armor
- Added: New Tank unit (ADM: 14/14/2; requires Oil, Rubber, Iron; Avail. with Combustion, Upgrade to Armor)
- Added: Clan unit - initial settler (requires only 1 population but 40 shields to build)
- Edit: Settler is now available with Seafaring.
- Added: Evangelist unit - upgrade for the Missionary, requires 2 population to build and - - Added: Shaman unit - initial religious settler (requires only 1 population but 40 shields to build) avail. with Seafaring.
***Note: the above 4 changes have been implemented as a workaround in an attempt to help AI growth.
- Edit: The Brave unit now uses Archer artwork instead.
- Added: Steam Frigate Unit (A/D/M 7/6/4 - S/R/F 8/1/2 - HP 3 - Transport 1 - Cost 17 - Tech Steam Power - Resources Iron, Coal, Timber)
- Edit: Corvette, Frigate, Man-O-War: Now upgrade to Steam Frigate.
- Edit: Ironclad stats changed (A/D/M 5/5/3 - S/R/F 6/1/2 - HP 3 - sink in ocean)
- Edit: SpecOps now require Oil in addition to Rubber
- Edit: Brave unit has been changed (ADM=2/1/1 Bombard=3/1/1, upgrades to Longbowman)
- Edit: Removed Immobile flag for Air Bombard units and Air Transports, enabling free roaming for these units
- Added: Advanced Fighter unit (ADM=18/12/0, Bombard=18/7/2, Op. Range 7, Available with Stealth)
- Added: Bi-Plane unit (ADM=4/2/0, Bombard=6/3/1, Op. Range 3, Available with Flight
- Added: Strategic Bomber unit (ADM=0/10/8, Bombard=24/8/4, Op. Range 8, Available with Rocketry)
- Added: Air Ship unit (ADM=0/3/4, Bombard=12/2/2, Op.Range 2, Available with The Corporation)
- Edit: Air Units have been reworked, changes mainly to ADM ratings, Bombard ratings and Tech Requirements
- Edit: Humvee - Movement rate reduced to 4 but now treats all terrain as roads
- Added: Jeep Unit (ADM=8/10/4, Bombard=8/10/4, Transport 1, All terrain as roads, available with Motorized Transportation)
- Edit: Grunt, Marine and Paratrooper ADM ratings increased.
- Edit: New movement rates for Wonder Builder units (Merchant=1, Caravan=2, Freight=3)
- Added: Unit animations for Crusader (Cavalier unit)
- Added: Unit animations for Merchant (Trading Cart unit)
- Added: Unit animations for Longswordsman (Teutonic Knight)
- Added: Unit animations for Barbarian Rider (Arabian Horseman)
- Fixed: Explorer can now be loaded onto transport
- Fixed: Scout can now be loaded onto transport
- Edit: Changed costs for Dragoon, Cossack, Cavalry and Humvee
*Terrain
- Edit: Floodplains changed to 3/0/0 (was 4/0/0)
*Resources
- Edit: Gold and Silver now share Icons (meaning you need to left click the tile to discover which of the two you have discovered)
- Added: Pigs resource added (bonus, gives 2/0/0 - appear on Plains, Grassland and Hills)
- Edit: Removed Appearance/Disappearance ratios for Luxuries
- Fixed: Tobacco now flagged to appear (on plains and grassland; was none)
- Edit: Stone and Marble resources removed.
- Added: Natives resource added (Strategic, gives 0/2/0 - can appear on all land tiles)
- Edit: Incense is now a strategic resource (was luxury)
- Added: Olive Oil resource added (Luxury, gives 1/0/1 - appears on Grassland and Forest)
- Edit: Rice switched to providing 2 food (was 3)
- Edit: Terrain for most resources have been reworked.
*Improvements
- Edit: Removed defensive bonus from Palace, Forbidden Palace, Summer Palace and Winter Palace as they were causing a bug.
- Edit: The following wonders/improvements now require Natives: Slave Market, Pyramids and Chichen Itza.
- Edit: Skyscraper no longer gives a bonus to Production.
- Edit: University now requires Academy to be built (was: Library)
- Edit: Port now requires Harbor to be built.
- Edit: Stock Market has been renamed to Stock Exchange and now requires a Bank to be built.
- Edit: Sewage Treatment Plant has been renamed Sewer System
- Edit: Maintenance costs of many improvements increased.
- Edit: Hollywood no longer gives +2 happy in all cities, and only gives +2 happy in this city (was: +4)
- Edit: Civil Rights Movement no longer gives 2 happy in all cities.
- Edit: Circus Maximus no longer gives 2 happy in all cities.
- Edit: United Nations wonder no longer requires Atomic Weapons Test to be built
- Edit: Eiffel Tower now makes one happy on continent
- Edit: Spirit of St. Louis wonder now also gives +1 ship movement (again)
- Edit: Electricity Improvement is now available to all civs, not just the builder of Energy Grid Wonder
- Edit: Human Genome Project now requires that a Research Lab has been built in the city.
- Edit: East India Company now requires that a Port has been built in the city.
- Edit: Wall Street now requires 3 x Stock Exchange instead of 5 x Bank.
- Edit: SETI Program now requires that a Research Lab has been built in the city.
- Edit: Theory of Evolution now requires that a University has been built in the city.
- Edit: Smith's Trading Co. now requires that a Bazaar has been built in the city.
- Edit: Newton's University now requires that a University has been built in the city.
- Edit: Copernicus Observatory now requires that a Library has been built in the city.
- Edit: Magellan's Voyage now requires flax, and that a Port has been built in the city.
- Edit: Great Lighthouse now requires that a Harbor has been built in the city.
- Edit: The Oracle now requires that a Shrine has been built in the city, and provides a shrine in all cities.
- Edit: Great Library now requires that a Library has been built in the city.
- Edit: Holy City requires Incense to be present within city radius.
- Edit: JS Bach's Cathedral and the Sistine Chapel now require Incense
- Edit: Nuclear Plant makes 2 Content citizens Unhappy.
- Edit: Factory, Manufacturing Plant, Coal Plant, Offshore Platform and Steel Mill now make 1 Content citizen Unhappy.
- Edit: Cathedral now requires Temple and Incense
- Edit: Forge now requires Iron
- Added: High School Improvement (Available with Atomic Theory, gives +50% Science)
- Added: Airforce Base Improvement (Available with Flight, allows Veteran Air Units, Air Power)
- Edit: Airport no longer allows Veteran Air Units, cost decreased to 30, maint. decreased to 2
*Governments
- Edit: Reduced Draft Rate for most governments
- Edit: Changed Military Police Effect for most governments
- Edit: Changed Worker Rate for Despotism to 1 (was 2)
*Techs
- Edit: Socialism now requires Unionization and Civil Liberties
- Edit: Costs of all Industrial and Modern Techs have been reduced.
- Edit: Nationalism no longer enable trade embargoes (were already enabled by Trade)
- Edit: Magnetism no longer enables trade over Ocean tiles (was already enabled by Navigation)
- Future Tech cost increased to 1000
- Advanced Warfare now also requires Stealth
- Plastics now also requires Ecology
-------------------------------------
v.0.7.6
-------------------------------------
- Edit: Missionary now requires Masonry to be built
-------------------------------------
v.0.7.7
-------------------------------------
- Edit: Horseman now upgrades to Knight.
- Edit: Spy now has no resource requirements but cost 70 shields.
- Fixed: Furs no longer use Olive Oil icon in City Screen Luxuries box.
- Edit: High School now gives 2 culture (was: 0)
- Edit: Naval mine is now mobile and can be used to actively attack
- Fixed: Naval Mine and Land Mine no longer have bombard capabilities (this was an error)
- Edit: Civilopedia effects descriptions for Improvements (buildings and wonders) are now supposed to be correct ;-)
- Edit: Elephant Rider now has new animations
- Edit: Barbarian Warrior has been renamed Barbarian Raider and can now make amphibious assault.
- Edit: Attack value for the Chariot has been lowered to 1.
- Edit: The cost of an Egyptian War Chariot has risen to 30 shields.
- Edit: The Archer now has new animations.
- Edit: The Ranger now uses the original Archer animations.
- Edit: Samurai unit now has attack of 7
- Edit: The Japanese can no longer build Knights
- Fixed: Rome can now build Longswordsmen (this was a bug in 0.7.6)
- Edit: Longswordsman is no longer available to Babylon, China, India, Japan and Persia
- Added: Bushi unit - same stats as longswordsman - available to Babylon, China, India, Persia and Japan - using the animations for the original Samurai
- Edit: The Samurai now uses different animations
- Edit: The Brave unit has been renamed to Champion.
- FIXED: Purple square around resources has been fixed
- Added: Unit Graphics for Humvee, Steam Frigate, Trireme
- Edit: Workers now upgrade to Serf's (to fix upgrade chain)
- Edit: Clan now upgrades to Settler
- Edit: Shaman now upgrades to Missionary
- Edit: Swordsmen now upgrade to Legionary
- Edit: When you capture an enemy unit, it will now be a Worker, not a Colonist

Kal-el
Apr 06, 2002, 04:57 AM
edit:all necessary unit animations can be found in the full download located at the website.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 06, 2002, 02:05 PM
Wow, I'm quite impressed. I first read about your mod over on Apolyton, and am glad to finally see it released. Playing an early game as the Americans on warlord to get the swing of things, and I like the progression of tech and the new bonus resources. New city improvements are also great, some early confusion over obelisk/shrines but easily fixed :) I look forward to playing this mod all day. Thanks.

Kal-el
Apr 07, 2002, 09:00 PM
Thanks. I am glad you like it so far. Please let me know if you run into any bugs.

I am thinking of adding a new tech to the industrial age
Tech - city planning - it would allow for the new improvement - park and the eiffel tower would be moved to here

the park would be a happines improvement and would help to reduce pollution

what do people think of this?

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 07, 2002, 10:14 PM
I've run into a lot of crashes with errors in civilization3.exe, and I'm not sure why. Some save files won't let me progress past a certain turn, I've tried saving and replaying from an earlier point, but still the crash. I even did a clean install and installation of the mod and still ran into the problem. Still, nice job, this was a pretty monumental effort.

Oh, btw, I love the wondersplash images....was quite happy with them when i built the Circus Maximus and the Taj Mahal.

Victorvanwavere
Apr 07, 2002, 11:59 PM
EmprorCoopinius,

I had that problem too. I corrected it by making sure all the unit files were in the right directory.

Did you download all the additional units and copy some of the existing units over to some of the new unit directories?

I.e. U need to copy the scout files to the ranger directory. There are about 10 you need to do this to. ;)

Now, here is the problem I have:

I am not sure if it is mend to be this way or not. I cant lift the worker tiles in the city to make people happy. I can only move one tile. It just seems very add.

Please let me know if it should be this way or how can I correct this. I think the problem is that I cant change the people to entertainer, scientist or tax collector even though I have researched the needed tech. :rolleyes:

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 01:23 AM
I was afraid people might run into trouble with the units. I will add a more comprehensive section to the readme about this. In the meantime, thanks Victorvanwavere

I don't know why you can't change the citizens, I have run into that problem myself. I meant to ask someone about it but forgot to. I may have to just return these to the way they were, which wouldn't be horrible.

Here are a few more changes I am making:

Change to Starting Techs:
Expansionistic - Farming - Was Pottery
Militaristic - Warrior Code - used to have option of wheel
Scientific - Alphabet - was bronze working
Religious - Ceremonial Burial
Industrious - Mining - was Masonry
Commercial - The Wheel - was alphabet

This makes more sense to me than what they had.

What do you think of this idea? Just as the expansionsit civs have the ranger what if there were special units available to the other characteristics. Industrious civs could start with workers that move two. Militaristic could have a better warrior, maybe start with a 2/2 warrior. need to think of something for the other three.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 02:36 AM
edit: problem is fixed with the complete download from the website.

Coda A27
Apr 08, 2002, 05:12 AM
While installing the various files for the paratrooper (as SpecOps,) I noticed that in the SpecOps.ini all the .flcs are titled SpecOps_action.flc instead of paratrooper_action.flc.

Is this a mistake as all the previous ones I've done so far had matching names? (Calvary.ini = Bandit_action.flc, etc). I renamed it just in case.

[edit]

Also, there were file locations for .wavs and .ambs in SpecOps.ini as well. Is it ok if no file exists there and will 'skip' over it, or will it cause an error?

RobO
Apr 08, 2002, 06:03 AM
OK Kal-el, I get it. There are three files. File 1, file 2 and file 3. That's three in total. Except for all the unit animations, that is.

I'm not an experienced "modder" for Civ3. Any chance that you could gather all those unit downloads in one that I can download and unzip? I could probably - given time - find and download all of them, but I'm not quite sure which parts of those downloads to use and where they go.

If you could provide a single download of the new units, then I would be sure that all of the files went into the right folders. It ought to be possible to zip it up from your own installation.

Ofc. that would probably make four (that is, 4) downloads, so you would have to edit several posts. That might be a somewhat boggling enterprise :crazyeye:

Thanks for the effort, btw. It does look interesting.

Benjamin Miller
Apr 08, 2002, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by RobO
OK, I get it. There are three files. File 1, file 2 and file 3. Except for all the unit animations, that is.

I'm not an experienced "modder" for Civ3. Any chance that you could gather all those unit downloads in one that I can download and unzip? I could probably - given time - find and download all of them, but I'm not quite sure which parts of those downloads to use and where they go.

If you could provide a single download of the new units, then I would be sure that all of the files went into the right folders.
Thanks for the effort, btw. It does look interesting.

I agree. It' s taking me forever to round up all the files.

Coda A27
Apr 08, 2002, 06:16 AM
I'm not quite sure which parts of those downloads to use and where they go

I've never modded before tonight either, but from guesstimating:

If in doubt, check the .ini file to see if its needed. Some of the files have lots of things, which I suspect aren't needed like .pcx files and whatnot. I just looked line by line and copied the .flc's, .wavs and .ambs as appropriate since I never saw anything else but those file types.

Except for that SpecOps thing, which I'm thinking is a mistake, and I renamed it, but what do I know.

===========================

Oh yeah. I keep crashing when I click things too quickly. Odd.

[edit]

Or even not clicking fast ... after 8 Crash To Desktops I think I'll give it some more time.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 06:46 AM
Coda,

Yes, it will skip over any blank file locations.

As for the file names, it doesn't matter. You could have a unit named Fandango, and use .wav and .amb files from another unit, as long as you have the correct file location & names in the .ini file.

Coda A27
Apr 08, 2002, 06:59 AM
I'll be more specific with my CTDs to be more helpful:

-Clicking the down arrow for a pulldown menu when a city has finished production and pops up asking for something else to be chosen.

-Clicking the "Unit Button" within the city screen when you want to change current production.

-(Quickly?) double clicking to zoom in a city

-(Quickly?) right clicking to see a description of some sort.

If it was just with a unit, I figured the problem would be something related with that, but it seems hard not to CTD in my case. I would really like to try this out past my 5th turn, and combined with Snoopys new graphic pack it feels like I'm already playing a new game :)

Satis5d
Apr 08, 2002, 08:26 AM
Kal-El,

This mod looks very interesting, and I look forward to using it. However, I am reluctant to for three reasons:

1. There is no all-in-one zip file. We don't all share you're enthusiasm for gathering files from all over.

2. Bugs have not all been worked out yet.

3. It seems you may never be content with this mod. Make some decisions and STICK WITH THEM. Yes, features can be improved, etc. but let the paint dry before applying a second coat, please.

That said, I appreciate the volume of work you have put into this already. This mod has (IMO) the potential to be the best mod to date I've seen anywhere.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 09:33 AM
Kal-el,

Great work on this one! I like what I see so far.

My only problem is the game keeps crashing at 680 AD. It doesn't matter whom I play as, what units I'm building, number of cities, etc. Just keeps crashing.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 10:37 AM
Ok, I get the point. You guys want all the unit files in one easy to download pack. I will do that. I think it will clear up a lot of the crashes, because I have played this thing through without any hang-ups.

Coda,

Not sure about the clicking thing, don’t know why quickly clicking something versus slowly clicking something would make a difference. Somebody please help out with this one.

The reason I renamed some of the files in the SpecOps folder was simply that I idin’t like having three units with paratrooper files. This was before I started working on the mod and I simply forgot to change it back. I left some of them as paratrooper because they are part of the .amb file and I don’t know how to edit those.

Satis5d,

1. There is no all-in-one zip file. We don't all share you're enthusiasm for gathering files from all over.

Well, I thought by putting the links to all the units in the post above that would make it easier for everybody (I know I just did that last night/this morning), but I understand that that is still a hassle for people who have not been keeping up with the new units. Obviously with this mod in mind I have been keeping track of any new unit that would fit the bill. I will put the units.zip together today and hopefully have that up by tonight.

2. Bugs have not all been worked out yet.


It is in beta, I put it up on the boards so that people could help me work out all the bugs. :D

3. It seems you may never be content with this mod. Make some decisions and STICK WITH THEM. Yes, features can be improved, etc. but let the paint dry before applying a second coat, please.

Again, it is beta, so it is still in flux. I just thought I would throw my new ideas out there to see what anybody thought. What do you think? Do you like the park idea? The new starting techs is definitely going in, if for no other reason I forgot to change the scientific civs from Bronzeworking which with mining is now a level two tech.

GIDustin
Apr 08, 2002, 11:19 AM
I got the mod and most of the units. I am gonna check it out later. BTW I am 2/3 done with the elephant rider. Only the attack animations stand in my way and those look like they will be easier as the whole elephant is not moving (aligning the death animations was a pain. It always appeared as if the elephant was killed by a cannon at point blank)

I hope to have it all finished tonight

GIDustin

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 11:25 AM
well that's good news for everybody!:goodjob:

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 11:49 AM
Are shipyard and port supposed to be able to be built by a city in the middle of a mass of land? Or can they be built by any city on a river?

I have conquered the 680 AD crash. That was because not all of the .flc, .wav and .amb files are in the correct folders. They are now though. :D

Now, I have a city on a river in the middle of a continent that is building a port, and next in the queue is a shipyard. Ideas? :confused:

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 12:41 PM
yeah, ran into that myself last night. I forgot to tag them as coastal facilities in the editor :blush: if you do that it will fix that problem.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 12:56 PM
ask and thou shallt receive! :D

edit: no longer necessary, just download the whole thing.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 01:46 PM
Man! So far so good! I like it.

My only issue so far, and it really is just a personal preference thing, but alot of your buildings in the build queue don't have graphics. Are you working on them or have you just not gotten around to updating the buildingslarge.pcx and buildingssmall.pcx files yet?

Also, I am pretty good at getting graphics from pretty much all over (web sites, games, books, etc.) and converting them into nice looking .pcx files for the civilopedia and also for the city aerial view. I particularly like see a city with all the stuff built in aerial view. If you have time, list what buildings you need and I can work on them for you. You like the amusement park graphic I posted in another thread, cause I see it in the civilopedia (only you mirrored the file :goodjob: ). Let me know what else you need.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 02:07 PM
Nightstorm,

Actually, I didn't see your post of the amusement park. lol, I had to find it on my own. I found a lot of images at the simcity3000 website.

I have pics for almost all of the buildings its just a matter of putting them together. I would be more than glad to send you what I have, if you wouldn’t mind doing that. I can compile that tonight and either send it to you or post it here.

The only ones I am missing images for are:
Labor Union
Civil Liberties
East India Company
Emancipation Proclamation
Edison’s Workshop
Civil Rights Movement
Genome Project
Central Bank
Cable Network
The Internet
Global E-Bank

I am not satisfied with the radio tower or the computer network, so if you could find alternate images for those. For the computer network I have the computer image from CTP ad that is a possibility.

Re: the overhead view, it really doesn’t work right now. You can only add in new buildings by replacing old ones. If you want to put the statue of liberty in you would have to remove the lighthouse or the colossus.

let me know how you would like to proceed.

thanks

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 02:16 PM
nightstorm,

just saw the thread with the pics. Those look great. I especially like the SoL, the Sewage Treatment Plant and the Taj Mahal. Would love to use those intead ofthe oes I have now.

should have asked earlier. have you figured a way to get the aerial view to work? I thinkit would be very cool to have a city just crammed full of stuff. can you imagine what a city iwll all of these improvements would look like?

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 02:33 PM
Beta Updates:

1) Industrial Ages Science Advisor: At the start of that age, if you click on guerilla warfar, it requires and makes you research industrialization but doesn't have an arrow going from industrialization to guerilla warfare.

2) Industrial Ages Science Advisor: Communism requires Marxism and has an arrow from one to the other. But, if you click on Communism, it does not force you to research Marxism first.

3) Industrial Ages Science Advisor (minor fix): Civil Liberties needs moved over about 10 or so pixels to the right, or the arrow from radio needs to come up and then point left instead of just pointing up (it is off-center).

That is what I have seen so far...will post if I come up with more :)

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 02:35 PM
You can post here or email the stuff to me...don't worry about size of .zip file if you email, cause I have cable and it screams!!! :D


As for the aerial view, I tried adding a few of those earlier and thought they worked...will have to look again, maybe I changed something. I will still try to work on it though.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 02:47 PM
great, you will have it within 6 hours.

now I can focus on putting the civilopedia.txt together.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 03:16 PM
SIM CITY 3000 UNLIMITED!

Forgot I even had that game! Gonna go gleam some pics from there for ya...That will be quick yet nice! :D

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 03:19 PM
can't wait to see what you come up with.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 04:37 PM
Here are the buildings I've come up with...so far...many more to come...

Still working on converting them and getting them onto the Civ3 invis background color.

So far we have...

Alcatraz
Arc De Triomph
Shop
Bank
Capital Records Building
Casino
German Castle
City Hall
Circus
CN Tower
Coal Power Plant
Solar Power Plant
Nuclear Power Plant
College
East India Company (well, another building I thought would work as this)
Eiffel Tower
Empire State Building
Replacement for Forbidden Palace
Grand Central Station
Great Lighthouse (looks more like the real thing than what is in the game already)
Guild Hall (well, yet another building I thought would work)
Hotel
Lincoln Memorial
Military Outpost
Musuem of National History
Smithsonian (Washington DC)
Newspaper
Notre Dame
Sidney Opera House
Police Station
Prison
Pub
Radio Station
Radio Tower
Recycling Center
Restaurant
School
Two Sewer Plants (the one you have and another one)
Smithsonian Castle
Sky Scraper
Sports Park
Stadium
Stonehenge
Supreme Court or District Court
Two Teamsters Offices
The Sphinx
Two TV Stations
Twin Towers
United Nations Complex

Some of these are already done...some of these can also be used as other buildings...will still try to find more while working on and convertin what I have...

I use all of these images for the aerial view...I can them resize them for use in the buildingslarge.pcx or buildingssmall.pcx files (for the build queues)...I can resize and put on a background for the Civilopedia...etc. etc. etc...:cool:

Here is an example of one of the Capital Records Building...

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 08, 2002, 04:51 PM
Wow, that looks amazing. It sure would be nice to see something like that in the aeriel city view.

Anyways, Kal, I'm downloading the units zip files, so I'll install those and hopefully everything will go well.

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 05:31 PM
nightstorm,

so you got the aerial view to work?

can you create a composite of the images you have, similar to the one in your other thread?

I am at home now and will be putting together what I have.

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 06:05 PM
I will see what I can do in the morning...the wife is limiting computer time for the rest of the evening ;)

I may have to put together a few of them, but I will try what I can...I got several of the 51 I posted from Sim City 3000 Unlimited thanks to your idea Kal-el...some are from the internet and some are my own...I try different designs with the SC3000 building architect tool and then load them into SC3000 and get them from there...

I will post tomorrow only those that are finished...will post later those that I get done...

Another sample...how about this for your radio tower...(working on a combination of a smaller version of this tower with a small radio-station type building)

NightStorm
Apr 08, 2002, 06:07 PM
'Tis what the Great Lighthouse should truely look like...

Kal-el
Apr 08, 2002, 06:56 PM
nightstorm those look great :goodjob: with you help this wil be the most beautiful mod available.

GIDustin
Apr 08, 2002, 07:15 PM
Those images look really good. I am impressed!!

griffon65
Apr 09, 2002, 03:09 AM
Very cool mod. Im gonna start on it after im done playing my game with Plutaricks mod. Speaking of that are you gonna add any more ships? you added one but when I used plautaricks mod and the ships he made along with a few modifications of my own managed to make ship to ship battles awesome(you actually need something other then battleships and carriers to win) and navel power an importent factor in being the dominating civ.

If you want I can help you out by giving you the stats and the ships I used.

NightStorm
Apr 09, 2002, 07:48 AM
Welcome to McDonald's drive thru, may I take your order please?

ROFL :D

NightStorm
Apr 09, 2002, 07:51 AM
That was funny! In all seriousness, how does this one look

NightStorm
Apr 09, 2002, 07:54 AM
Grrr...here it is

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 12:13 PM
Nightstorm,

there grrrrrrrrrrrrreat!
- Tony the Tiger

Griffon,

I was debating adding in more ships and personally I didn't see the point, of course I never played a game past the industrial period either :D, so if people think this is something that would add to the experience, I am more than willing to add those in.

why don't you post what you have, and maybe we can get a discussion gong on this.

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 01:30 PM
here are the files in smaller dowloads. Each is under 1mb but that of course means there are a lot more of them, sixteen to be exact.

1 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_1_of_7.zip)
2 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_2_of_7.zip)
3 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_3_of_7.zip)
4 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_4_of_7.zip)
5 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_5_of_7.zip)
6 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_6_of_7.zip)
7 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Double_Your_Pleasure_Small_Download_7_of_7.zip)
8 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_1_of_9.zip)
9 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_2_of_9.zip)
10 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_3_of_9.zip)
11 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_4_of_9.zip)
12 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_5_of_9.zip)
13 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_6_of_9.zip)
14 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_7_of_9.zip)
15 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_8_of_9.zip)
16 of 16 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Unit_Pack_9_of_9.zip)

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 09, 2002, 01:41 PM
Hey, just wanted to post some stuff from playtesting.

1. A longship of mine attacked a barbarian galley, and instead of the standard attack, it sailed straight into it, and arrows started flying in from the sides. Quite amusing. ;)

2. Is Circus Maximus supposed to require 4 coliseums before it's built? It doesn't now, you can build it right after you discover the prereq advance.

3. Was playing a game last night, all was well, loaded it up this morning and all was still well, until 1280, when it kept crashing every time I hit enter. I think it may be because I built dragoons that turn, and maybe I didn't install them right. My dragoon folder has all the cavalry wavs, and the bandit flics, with the dragoon.ini.

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 01:53 PM
Some of us are having a discussion about my earlier suggestion regarding the trait specific units. i.e. the ranger and the brave. we have come up with possibilities for all 6 traits.

Religious - Pilgrim - Settler - moves 2
Commercial - Caravan - Rush wonder Unit (still need serious discussion on this)
Scientific - Greek Fire Catapult - Catapult with 2 rate of fire
Industrious - Peasant/Serf - Worker - moves 2 (remember their laborers already work faster than everybody elses)
Militaristic - Brave - Better Warrior
Expansionist - Ranger - Better Scout

join the discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19893)

EmprorCoopinius,

1. A longship of mine attacked a barbarian galley, and instead of the standard attack, it sailed straight into it, and arrows started flying in from the sides. Quite amusing.
I must have missed the ‘Turn to Attack flag’

2. Is Circus Maximus supposed to require 4 coliseums before it's built? It doesn't now, you can build it right after you discover the prereq advance.
that should be changed, thanks.

3. Was playing a game last night, all was well, loaded it up this morning and all was still well, until 1280, when it kept crashing every time I hit enter. I think it may be because I built dragoons that turn, and maybe I didn't install them right. My dragoon folder has all the cavalry wavs, and the bandit flics, with the dragoon.ini.
There’s your problem. :) the bandit flics go with cavalry and the cavalry flics go with the dragoon. :D a bit of the ol’ switcharoo. :lol:

glad to see that things are working out, generally.

Civalaholic
Apr 09, 2002, 01:55 PM
It took a while to get it working, but it was worth it. If your like me, the original game sucked after about a week. This definately adds a lot.

I understand this is the beta, but there is a lot of work left to do. The civolopedia entries are definately needed, there are just too many new things to go without an in game explanation.

I'm trying to figure out how to make a self extracting file, anyone know how?

Your work on this is appreciated, and if you need any help with anything, just let me know.

Civalaholic
Apr 09, 2002, 02:02 PM
The comercial caravan sounds cool. There would have to be different caravans for each age, with different shield values.

It's a good idea, but may not play very well. Maybe have some big prerequisites. Precious metals and an appropriate comercial building.

ie- in ancient require marketplace, precious metals and a tech
in middle ages require precious metals and bank

Just an idea.

Thanks again, for ignoring your family for my gaming enjoyment.

NightStorm
Apr 09, 2002, 02:04 PM
You can make self-extracting files with WinZip...

You can also make an install program with Install Maker.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 09, 2002, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the help Kal, everything else is running smooth as silk.

Victorvanwavere
Apr 09, 2002, 04:23 PM
This is really a great Mod.

Cant wait till all the new improvements have pictures in the city and the civopidia is updated. There is a bunch of new improvements and not always sure what each does.

Some things that I have noticed:

I cant choose witch tile in the city view to move and cant lift any.
This might be because I cant make Scientist, Tax collector or Entertainer, even though I have the tech to do so.

I discovered Democracy well before Republic or Monarchy, this seems a little odd.

The computer seem to be not to difficult. I am playing on Emperor and am handling them fine. They might be suffering from the same "Cant Lift Tiles" Since I see a lot of cities in disorder.

The computers do seem to be very rich. Normally they do not have large treasuries.

There is no warning that a computer has started to build a wonder.

_____________________________________________

I used Snoopy's Graphics mod and it feels like I am playing Civ4.

Thanks Kal-el and every one involved in making this such a great.
mod.

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 06:31 PM
I cant choose witch tile in the city view to move and cant lift any.
I have run into the same problem and don't understand it. So, until someone tells me how to fix it, I have just returned the citizens to having no prerequisites. :(

I discovered Democracy well before Republic or Monarchy, this seems a little odd.
Democracy in this game represents the classical Democracy of Ancient Greece.

Republic represents the Republic of Rome, which came after the Greeks.

Monarchy represents the divine right of kings type monarchy that didn't start popping up in Europe until the middle ages.

Despotism, then, represents your earlier type Kingdoms and Empires of the Ancient age.

Here is the Civilopedia entry for Federal Republic
#GOVT_Federal_Republic
^
^
^The Federal Republic is a nation comprised of a federation of quasi-independent states bound together under a national government, but still retaining a measure of autonomy. The government is run through a system of elected representatives, and is therefore accountable to the people. Because of the significant power of each individual state, the power of the Federal Government is often limited, making such things as the $LINK<draft=GCON_Draft> or $LINK<Martial Law=GCON_Moods> difficult to institute. However, the Federal Republic is an excellent system for commerce and industry, and also receives a number of free units due to the costs being covered by the state.
^Worker efficiency 200%
^Hurry Method Paid Labor
^Corruption / Waste Nuisance
^Draft Rate 1
^Military Police Limit 0
^Unit Support
^ per town 1
^ per city 3
^ per metropolis 5
#DESC_GOVT_Federal_Republic
^
^
^ Federalism, also referred to as federal government, is a national or international political system in which two levels of government control the same territory and citizens. The word federal comes from the Latin term fidere, meaning “to trust.” Countries with federal political systems have both a central government and governments based in smaller political units, usually called states, provinces, or territories. These smaller political units surrender some of their political power to the central government, relying on it to act for the common good. In a federal system, laws are made both by state, provincial, or territorial governments and by a central government.
^
^Federal political systems divide power and resources between central and regional governments. The balance of power between the two levels of government varies from country to country, but most federal systems grant substantial autonomy to state or provincial governments. Central governments decide issues that concern the whole country, such as organizing an army, building major roads, and making treaties with other countries. Federalism varies in practice, however, and in some countries with federal systems the central government plays a large role in community planning, schools, and other local issues. Federal political systems are relatively uncommon around the world. Instead, most countries are unitary systems, with laws giving virtually all authority to the central government.
^
^A confederation is similar to a federal system but gives less power to the central government. The loose alliances of countries or other political entities that make up a confederation seek to cooperate with one another while retaining ultimate control of their own internal policies. Unlike federal systems, confederations usually give each member nation absolute control over its citizens and territory. The central government decides only issues that affect all members of the confederation. In the 18th century the United States was founded as such a system under the Articles of Confederation. More recently, the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, and many of the former republics formed a confederation called the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) to coordinate domestic and foreign policy. Confederations tend to be weak and unstable because member nations often resist relinquishing final authority on any matters and insist on their right to withdraw from the confederation at any time. Confederations are uncommon; most are international bodies with limited and specific responsibilities, such as the European Union (EU) and the British Commonwealth.


Here is the Civilopedia entry for Social Democracy - note that they have a draft rate of 1 - this needs to be changed in your .bic
#GOVT_Social_Democracy
^
^
^Socialist Democracies incorporate modern concepts of freedom and economics, but also have a strong central government which
controls some aspects of the economy. Although the $LINK<productivity=GCON_Shields> of Socialist Democracies may not match
that of the more Laissez-Faire Federal Republics, the Welfare State provides more services such as health care and free
education, resulting in more $LINK<happiness=GCON_Happy_Faces> among the masses. The stronger central government also
allows for a $LINK<draft=GCON_Draft> and military police if the need arises.
^Worker efficiency 150%
^Hurry Method Paid Labor
^Corruption / Waste Nuisance
^Draft Rate 1
^Military Police Limit 1
^Unit Support
^ per town 1
^ per city 2
^ per metropolis 4
#DESC_GOVT_Social_Democracy
^
^
^The beginnings of modern Socialist Democracies came from the early Industrial Revolution. When it became clear that
some changes had to be made to appease the discontent masses, the government, hitherto backers of business, began to
make concessions to prevent the people from rising up in full revolt. These concessions took the form of 5-day work
weeks, overtime pay and better working conditions. As time went on, however, many countries developed welfare system designed, as the name implies, to look out for the welfare of the nations' citizens. Welfare systems usually provide basic necessities such as education, health care, and unemployment benefits.
^
^Social Democracy took firm root in European politics after World War I. Socialist democratic parties actively participated in government in Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, and other nations. Socialism also became a powerful force in parts of Latin America, Asia, and Africa. To the Indian leader Jawaharlal Nehru and other leaders of independence movements, it was attractive as an alternative to the systems of private enterprise and exploitation established by their foreign rulers. 12 After World War II, socialist parties came to power in many nations throughout the world, and much private industry was nationalized. In Africa and Asia where the workers are peasants, not industrial laborers, socialist programs stressed land reform and other agrarian measures. These nations, until recently, have also emphasized government planning for rapid economic development. African socialism has also included the revival of pre-colonial values and institutions, while modernizing through the centralized apparatus of the one-party state. Recently, the collapse of Eastern European and Soviet Communist states has led socialists throughout the world to discard much of their doctrines regarding centralized planning and nationalization of enterprises.

There is no warning that a computer has started to build a wonder.
You need to go into preferences and check that option.

hope this helps. :)

Benjamin Miller
Apr 09, 2002, 06:55 PM
Great mod. A little buggy, but great.

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 07:50 PM
working on the bugs. did you run across any that weren't mentioned?

Benjamin Miller
Apr 09, 2002, 08:19 PM
Haven't played much yet, but here's what I've noticed:

Not really a bug, but the Eygyptian :egypt: War Chariot "Upgrades" into the Horseman, a weaker, more expensive unit.

Other than that, all my bugs have been covered.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 09, 2002, 08:23 PM
Had a couple more crashes, not sure if these are bugs or no..

1. trying to establish 3 embassies in 1 turn, on the third the game crashed.

2. looking ahead in the tech tree while i was in the late middle ages also caused a crash.

On the bright side, the dragoons work now, and cavalry look cool.

NightStorm
Apr 09, 2002, 08:30 PM
Not sure if the 3 embassies thing is a bug or just a random thing. I established 4 embassies (or was it 3) in same turn today and nothing happened. I mean, the embassies were established and I kept playing.

As for the not being able to lift tiles, this I believe is hard coded into the game. I mean, since you can't assign a new job for the person until the pre-requisite is discovered (drama I believe for entertainer) you can't lift the tile (I.e. until drama is discovered, everyone MUST be a worker and the MUST work a tile). I was able to combat this by lowering my science to 50% and raising my luxeries to 20% (just like the Civ2 strategy for republic and democracy). This actually decreased my corruption because I had many more happy workers and my treasury and population sizes increased more rapidly, thus allowing my science to increase fairly quickly as well.

Kal-el
Apr 09, 2002, 08:32 PM
benjamin,

so don't upgrade them!! ;)

no, just kidding. that's obviouisly not the solution. clearly I missed a few things while putting this together. i appreciate everybody's patience. I am fixing them as they come up so keep playing.

Should upgrade to "stupid english knights"

EC,

I haven't had either of those problems so maybe it was a one time deal. Hopefully? Has anybody else had similar problems?

Have you guys checked out the Civ Trait Units (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19893), or CTUs, that I am planning on implementing? check out the thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19893) in the main creation forum if you haven't. I have included the civilopedia.txt for them there as well so give you a better idea of what they can do. Check them out and let me know if this is something that you think would be a good addition to the game.

Coda A27
Apr 10, 2002, 02:30 AM
Your smaller download links are messed up.

You have 16 files, 1-7 in one set and 1-9 on the other, but the links for set 1-9 all lead to file #1 (copy paste error?).

Coda A27
Apr 10, 2002, 04:38 AM
Downloaded all 16 files and placed them all where they should go, but I still get crashes whenever I select something in a menu or open a pulldown menu (From picking the first unit/building in a city to build to usually). Haven't a clue, and if anybody else has this problem at least I know I'm not alone in this oddity. This didn't happen once, and I built 5 warriors in a row to conquer a nearby civ, then chose ranger and it went kaput and crashed.

Isak
Apr 10, 2002, 05:15 AM
Coda A27:

Maybe it's because the Ranger unit also needs to have all the Scout *.flc files in the Ranger folder (I think its the Scout files, but check the Ranger.ini to make sure) - Just copy all flc files from the scout folder to your ranger folder - I think there may be other units with the same problem, but unfortunately I'm not able to check at the moment, as I'm not home :(

Isak
Apr 10, 2002, 05:23 AM
And this is a reminder to not press the back button on your browser while you're in a forum.....

You'll just end up posting the same thing twice.:rolleyes:

griffon65
Apr 10, 2002, 05:38 AM
Kal El- Your right about "there no point in adding ships" but thats only if you dont play past the industrial age. Im guessing you dont cuz of the "who has the most modern armor wins". If thats the case then I have a solution for that too(I think your mod fixes this right? but if you want to hear them anyways...) but just in case I got units to balance out the modern age. Anyways back to the navel units. The most fun you can have is with the modern navel units but the orginal game made it boring by its one sidedness. But after installing the LWC mod which made navel battles better, I tweaked the stats to it to make it what I think is almost perfect and gave each ship its own uses.

NOTE: Almost all credit goes to Plutarick the creator of the LWC MOD who made these new units. I just tweaked the stats and stuff. Also you may see that the costs in shields is high. This is because the LWC mod added buildings and extra shileds to terrain, so most cities were producing 100 shields or more. Also all industrial units have extra attack/defense/bombard/rate of fire to balance the modern units higher attack power. They also have extra movement and cost. Im just not listing them cuz thats all I didnt add anything special to them. Im also not listing the required resources needed. Also now cruise missials count as tacticle missials, making battles so much better. My Elite are also 7 HP and reg 4 and Vets 5 so rate of fire for ships is also higher.

Modern Transport
Cost: 160
Move:11
A: 10
D:20
Capacity: 10

Nuclear Submarine
Cost:350
Move: 13
A: 55
D: 40
Capacity: 5
Can see submarines
Can carry missials

Modern Destroyer
Cost: 300
Move: 11
A: 60
D: 50
Can see submarine
Bombard Range/Strength/rate of fire: 2/16/4
Air Supiority(if they lethel planes is put in next patch, and will make ground unit for same purpose)

Nuclear Carrier
Cost: 400
Move: 11
A: 25
D: 40
Capacity: 6
Rader

Battle Sub(pretty useless I think im gonna remove it)
Cost: 330
Move: 13
A:60
D:50
Capacity:1
Can see sub
Can carry missials

Super Battleship
Cost: 440
Move: 11
A: 110
D: 100
Capacity: 1
Bombard Range/Strength/ Rate of fire: 3/25/6
Rader
Can carry missials

AEGIS Cruiser
Cost: 350
Move: 11
A: 55
D: 45
Bombard Range/Strength/ Rate of fire: 3/15/4


You might notice no ship has blitz command well this is because with so many movement points when a ship reaches its destination it can attack/bombard at least 10 times in modern age! And that was just ridiculous.

Well now the battleship/super battleship is not the strongest vessal but very versitile. And now the nuclear sumarine is actually something to fear. And ageis crusier and modenr destroyer have their own uses. AEGIS carries enough missials to sink your expensive battleship without taking even 1 HP of damage and destroyer is the only surface ship capable of seeing subs and maby only one that can intercept planes(if they put in leathel bombardment). And now increased bombard range/strenght and ship movement means that it can get to enemy shores and start devestating all costal and close to coast cities and porvided good bombard support for ground troops cuz of its high rate of fire. And I hope the higher attack/defense will make those fights where a frigate kills battleships dissappear, I havent tested it yet cuz I havent reached the modern age.

BTW if you want me to help you out with this mod id be willing to. Im not a whiz with the creation of animation and stuff like that. But Id be willing to help with the tweaking of units to balnce gameplay and help with the civitopia entries.

Coda A27
Apr 10, 2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Isak
Coda A27:

Maybe it's because the Ranger unit also needs to have all the Scout *.flc files in the Ranger folder (I think its the Scout files, but check the Ranger.ini to make sure) - Just copy all flc files from the scout folder to your ranger folder - I think there may be other units with the same problem, but unfortunately I'm not able to check at the moment, as I'm not home :(

[dance] [dance] [dance]

Amazing.

Actually, I just crashed again, but I was alt-tabbing between Civ3 and IE to respond back to your solution so that could've been a video driver problem. It did appear to be the problem after all

Anyway - Thanks!

Civalaholic
Apr 10, 2002, 11:26 AM
I just downloaded the wondersplahes.... very nice.

The only problem i'm having now is when I try to move my longswordsman(with all the legionary flics in it's folder) into enemy territory, I crash. I checked the ini, to ensure i had the correct flics, but it still crashes.

Got any clue what i'm doing wrong?

Kal-el
Apr 10, 2002, 12:37 PM
Coda,

Yeah, copy paste and forgot to edit. Anyway, they are fixed now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Civilaholic,

I don't think moving into enemy territory should crash the game. It is probably related to something else going on. :(

has anybody else experienced this problem? or anything like it. please, if you have, what is going on?:confused:

Kal-el
Apr 10, 2002, 12:52 PM
Everybody,

Please let me know how high to raise the costs of later buildings and units. With the increased shields and the extra production buildings things are gonna probably be coming pretty fast in the later stages of the game. I didn't know exactly how to calculate for this so I left it as is. But I figure those values are gonna have to be changed eventually.

thanks

Civalaholic
Apr 10, 2002, 01:23 PM
I continued playing and just decided not to pummel the indians (since everytime i moved my units in their territory my game crashed). Everything ran smooth.
After upgrading all my units to the next tech, I tried to attack Delhi. Everytime i move my units next to their city I crash. It dosen't happen If I move next to any of their other cities, only Delhi. I back doored them with a large landing force, took their cities and no problem. But everytime I move any unit near delhi, it crashes.

I don't know, what it may be.
Anyone have any suggestions?

Isak
Apr 10, 2002, 01:56 PM
Civalaholic:

You wouldn't happen to have any save games from before any of the crashes - if you could post them (or perhaps mail them to me, so as not to abuse the Board's diskspace), I would like to see if I can reproduce the errors - that way, maybe we can ensure that kal-el sticks to writing the civilopedia stuff, rather than going on a mad bug-chase ;)

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 10, 2002, 02:03 PM
Nah, dude, that's weird....I had the Indians too, and was able to take Delhi without anything untoward happening.


Kal,

More beta testing

1. you still are prompted to build hospitals instead of the sanitation system to get your pupulation above 15.

2. are fanatics supposed to be gov-specific? I dunno if that's even possible, but I've heard it discussed, so I thought that might be what you were going for. As it stands, you can build them as soon as you discover fundamentalism, you don't need to switch governments.


Just wanted to echo the sentiments I head earlier and thank you for taking time out of your life to make my Civ-ing experience better. Keep up the good work.:)

Kal-el
Apr 10, 2002, 02:11 PM
"1. you still are prompted to build hospitals instead of the sanitation system to get your population above 15."

Ok, will check into that.

"2. are fanatics supposed to be gov-specific? I dunno if that's even possible, but I've heard it discussed, so I thought that might be what you were going for. As it stands, you can build them as soon as you discover fundamentalism, you don't need to switch governments."

No, as of now that is not possible. So they are buildable by anybody. They just represent crazy people :D willing to die for the cause.

thanks again.

Isak
Apr 10, 2002, 03:20 PM
"1. you still are prompted to build hospitals instead of the sanitation system to get your population above 15."

I think It's just because both the Hospital and Sewage Treatment plants are checked as allowing City Size Level 3.

However, if that check mark is removed from hospitals, building one won't do anything, but cost you 2 maintenance :(

Kal-El:

It's really nothing, but I'm a bit confused... are Colonists supposed to use the Modern Settler animations or the wagon animations? - The Colonist.ini file i have, refers to the Wagon*.flc's - but maybe I got something messed up along the way - I've reinstalled Civ3 about a dozen times this week :o

Anyway, I've been checking out all the additions/modifications, and will allow myself to indulge in a full game now (playing to win) - but I think it's safe to say that this mod is definitely destined to become fantastic - it gets my vote for the Most Likely To End Up In "Civilization 3 - Test Of Time" Award" :D

Kal-el
Apr 10, 2002, 03:40 PM
hospitals should make people happy. I think I must have forgotten to edit them.

Is it a building or a tech that removes disease from floodplains and jungle? I can't remember right now? if its a building it should be hospitals, if tech medicine.

so, do people think hospitals should keep the city increase flag and have sewars just remove pollution?

I guess that would work too. In fact they may be the better way to go. Thoughts? anybody?

Colonists use the covered wagon animation. I need to go in and fix the units_32.pcx file so as not to confuse. the wagon animation got finished right around the same time the mod was posted, so ...

Why so many reinstalls?

I think it's safe to say that this mod is definitely destined to become fantastic - it gets my vote for the Most Likely To End Up In "Civilization 3 - Test Of Time" Award"
Thanks! I sure hope people like it. :D

Isak
Apr 10, 2002, 04:41 PM
Is it a building or a tech that removes disease from floodplains and jungle? It's a tech - so Medicine it is then, I guess. so, do people think hospitals should keep the city increase flag and have sewars just remove pollution? I think the Sewer Plants are the most natural choice for the City Increase flag - after all the jump from Aqueduct to Sewer Plant is not quite as abstract as the jump from Aqueduct to Hospital.

It's just a thought, but why not let the hospitals give a small bonus to production - after all, with a hospital around, folks are able to heal up faster, recover from otherwise fatal diseases or injury, etc. - all in all, less days in bed, means more days at work (at least that's the concept my boss is trying to convey to me)
- This should still be coupled with the happiness bonus, and perhaps a slight increase in maintenance.
Colonists use the covered wagon animation. I need to go in and fix the units_32.pcx file so as not to confuse. the wagon animation got finished right around the same time the mod was posted, so ...
Yeah ok, I'll just ignore it until you post version 0.2 - it's just that I was trying to clean up the units that use original (Firaxian)artwork in order to have the .ini's reference the files in the original folders rather than require people to copy the files to other folders - I used to be modding impaired once, myself, so I know how blind you can get from staring at an installation folder in Windows Explorer....... anyway, If you wan't the ini's, I can post them here. They're no big deal, but I just wan't to test them, to make sure there's no stupid little mistakes :scan:
Why so many reinstalls? Oh, I just decided it would be a terribly good idea to test out this mod, the balancer mod, neolithic mod, a mod-swapping utility and a save game manager, whilst starting design on my own up-and-coming mod as well........:suicide:

I'll be joining the society for putting things on top of other things any day now....

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 10, 2002, 05:56 PM
Yeah, I agree, sewer systems should be the ones to bump a city to level 3....I miss that from Civ II, and it makes more sense than a hospital.

GIDustin
Apr 10, 2002, 06:17 PM
I went through, got all the unit files and got them all in the proper folders, and I was GOING to upload them here.

Problem is the zip is 42MB . . .

Suggestions?? :)

NightStorm
Apr 10, 2002, 06:52 PM
Well All, here is a composite of the new artwork going into the next version that I have done so far. Many more to come. Let me know what you think.

GIDustin
Apr 10, 2002, 07:09 PM
:goodjob: Looking good!!

Scipio Africanu
Apr 10, 2002, 09:18 PM
they look great, you don't mind if I use some of these for my mod do you?

Civalaholic
Apr 11, 2002, 01:51 AM
I just cannot get this damn mod to work. If it's not one thing it's another.

I reinstalled Civ, downloaded all the files again, reinstalled the patch, and It still won't run.

Now when I end my turn 1270bc, the game stops responding. It dosen't crash, but stops responding.

Six hours. Six hours reinstalling everything and I can't get the thing to run.
Why does this have to be such a great game. It's too addicting. I should sue Sid for emotional distress. My wife is pissed, and I missed sleep and it still dosen't work.

Does anyone else have the newest patch, and snoopy's graphics mod running with this Mod? Any problems? Has anyone had a not responding problem? ANyone know how to fix it? Anyone have any ideas? Anyone have a gun?

I'm goin to bed.
(Sorry I had to vent)

Isak
Apr 11, 2002, 06:06 AM
Civalaholic:

According to this thread at Apolyton (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43563) the game can hang if the entertainer requires a tech to be build - maybe this is what you're experiencing

Again, feel free to send me a savegame or two - at least that way we can find out whether it's just your installation, or if its the mod.

NightStorm
Apr 11, 2002, 07:10 AM
You guys have seen my work. Anyone able to give me some ideas, as I am stuck for a few graphics/buildings? I need for E-bank (not happy with what I have) and Civil Rights. Anyone?

Lab Monkey
Apr 11, 2002, 08:25 AM
Great Stuff!

Nice of you to use one of my units, thanks!

NightStorm
Apr 11, 2002, 10:15 AM
Kel-el,

Don't remember which post it was but weren't you asking about what to call The Great Buddha Statue? If so, it is known as Diabutsu or Amitabha. I have a great graphic for it, which would look great in here.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 11, 2002, 11:53 AM
Nightstorm, I love the buildings. A few comments...

1.the Constitution looks more like the Ten Commandments. ;) Maybe just a pic of the U.S. Constitution would work or something.

2. the drug store is the teamster's office from Tropico. "Rest in peace muchacho." :D

3. for Civil Rights, you could have something like Sun Tzu's, maybe a black hand shaking a white hand on a pedestal. Lame, I know, but it's hard when the wonders are more ideas than actual buildings.

Civalaholic
Apr 11, 2002, 12:10 PM
Finally got it working, here's a few prelim suggestions.

Bring the defensive value for the scout back to 0. The barbarians can't even hurt it with it's current value. Maybe give the expansionist Civ's a scout with a defensive value, but it's too much to be available to everyone.

Increase the Barbarian's stats, I think LWC used Swordsman, and Knights. One should have a reason to fear the unknown. With a stronger barbarian, you may think twice before sending conscript warriors out to explore.

Flag a tech as not necessary for age advancement, but have it as a prerequisite later in the game. This would give you the chance to go through the tree faster, but still have to research the same amount of techs. I haven't seen this used in anyone else's Mod, but it's something I'm trying to incorporate in mine.
Specifically in regard to Military techs. A peaceful scientific Civ has no use for military units. Of course they would need to develop the skill of manipulating Iron, but they wouldn't necessarily develop swords. Of course they would need to domesticate animals, but they might not use them to attack other civs. Maybe have swordmaking a nonrequired tech after iron working, have domestication, but then have a nonrequired equestrian tech.

Clockworks- I assume this tech is refering to the development of mechanical timekeeping. Historically speeking, the development of time pieces played a vital role in seafaring. There was a race afoot to develop a way to navigate the oceans, and timekeeping actually beat out astronomy. Maybe put a non-required tech, Miniaturized timekeeping, that allows transverseing the oceans.

Either drop the inability to mine grasslands(I do agree it isn't very realistic, and I like that aspect to this game) or increase the valur of Forests. I broght mine back up to 2 shieldsl. I definately like the ability to mine forests. Good call.

Well that's all I have for now. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks again for this Mod.

Bye the Bye- EVERYONE MUST DOWNLOAD SNOOPY'S GRAPHICS MOD. IT ROCKS.

Kal-el
Apr 11, 2002, 12:48 PM
Wasn't on the boards last night so ...

Civalaholic,

Increase the Barbarian's stats, I think LWC used Swordsman, and Knights. One should have a reason to fear the unknown. With a stronger barbarian, you may think twice before sending conscript warriors out to explore.
the barbarian is supposed to use the barbarian warrior, which has better stats, 2/2/1, if I remember correctly,. But I forgot to switch this over in the general settings.

So, everybody, go into you general settings tab in the editor and switch the barbarians from warrior to barbarian warrior. This should make them a bit more of a concern. also swith from horseman to barbarian rider.

Bring the defensive value for the scout back to 0. The barbarians can't even hurt it with it's current value. Maybe give the expansionist Civ's a scout with a defensive value, but it's too much to be available to everyone.
with the switch in barbarians I am hoping that this doesn't need to go back to 0. but what do other pepole think?

Flag a tech as not necessary for age advancement, but have it as a prerequisite later in the game. This would give you the chance to go through the tree faster, but still have to research the same amount of techs. I haven't seen this used in anyone else's Mod,

You haven't seen it because its not possible. You can not flag a tech as a prereq if it is in another era. :(


Either drop the inability to mine grasslands(I do agree it isn't very realistic, and I like that aspect to this game) or increase the valur of Forests. I broght mine back up to 2 shieldsl. I definately like the ability to mine forests. Good call.
I thought I had removed the mining from grasslands:confused:

thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Nightstorm,

I like what you are doing so far, but,

for the constitution, I was thinking take the pedestal from the heroic epic and place the paper icon from the resource.pcx file on it.

I agree with Emperorcoopinius about the civil rights movement, the two hands shaking would be good. take a look at the Social Democracy graphic for two hands shaking. (how do you guys like that social democracy graphic? I am pretty proud of it because I had to make it myself. the symbols of the shafts of wheat represent the socialsim part of it and the two hands coming together represent the democracy part of it, just in case you missed it)

For the Emancipation, is it possible to have an arial view of the outside of the lincoln memorial?

Ideally they would all be from the original game arial view perspective.

thanks for working on these. :D

--------------------

On a separate matter, I was reminded of an question I had for everybody when I was talking about the social democracy pic.

What do people think about changing the symbol for federal republic from the eagle that it is now to the EU's flag of gold stars on the blue background? I would probably change the stars from gold to silver. This symbol closely mirrors the original flag of the US and would thereby be representative of the two largest federal sytems in the world? ( I think they are the two largest)

Also the owl for democracy represents Athena the goddess of wisdom and patron goddess of Athens the city-state most closely associated with classical democracy.

Civalaholic
Apr 11, 2002, 01:15 PM
You did indeed remove the ability to mine grassland tiles, and I do like this aspect of the game. The point behind my suggestion was that it can be rather difficult to get a city's production to an acceptable level, without the benefit of the resourcefulness of forests.
Also, I had a problem running the program with a prerequisite for specialists (It caused the program to not respond). Aployton says it's a fairly common problem. If others aren't running into it, then keep the prerequisites. I definately like the idea, I just wish it'd work.

Kal-el
Apr 11, 2002, 01:32 PM
yeah, the prereqs for the citizens doesn't seem to work. so that's out of there ... for now.

I agree that your early cities might be a bit slow in developing, but that was kind of the point. I wanted to slow down the ancient age a bit to more closely correspond with how things actually played out. Hence, you have to discover the techs for mining, irrigating and building roads. You can't irrigate until crop rotation to represent the dramatic improvement in farming techiques that werew developed during the early middle ages. (I miss the farms of Civ2.)

I didn’t want a bunch of industrial giants, hovering at size 7 pumping out settlers, just waiting around for aqueducts so that they can jump up to size 15 and then wait around for sewers. This also puts a premium on building your early cities near hills and mountains. Places that will provide not only better mining opportunities but also good places for your defenders. What do I have the forests set at now, isn’t 1/2/1 with a bonus of 1 for mining? That’s more productive than the orignal game because you can mine (harvest) it.

Your cities will be very productive later in the game, don't worry.

NightStorm
Apr 11, 2002, 01:49 PM
1.the Constitution looks more like the Ten Commandments. Maybe just a pic of the U.S. Constitution would work or something.

{Kal-el}for the constitution, I was thinking take the pedestal from the heroic epic and place the paper icon from the resource.pcx file on it.

That is why I asked for suggestions, cause I thought that looked cheesy, but it was a start. I like to try to insert actual buildings instead of full pictures whenever possible. It makes creating the aerial city view pics easier in the end. I will play around with this and see what I can come up with.

2. the drug store is the teamster's office from Tropico. "Rest in peace muchacho."

Yeah, I know. It is just a temporary fix until I can get the building I'm working on to look right. I just can't get the angles correct. I'm trying for something like a 1950's soda shop look.

3. for Civil Rights, you could have something like Sun Tzu's, maybe a black hand shaking a white hand on a pedestal. Lame, I know, but it's hard when the wonders are more ideas than actual buildings.

{Kal-el} I agree with Emperorcoopinius about the civil rights movement, the two hands shaking would be good. take a look at the Social Democracy graphic for two hands shaking.

That is an idea I will have to play with. I do like the concept though.

For the Emancipation, is it possible to have an arial view of the outside of the lincoln memorial?

Ideally they would all be from the original game arial view perspective.

One step ahead of you friend :D . Check out the picture below.

Kal-el
Apr 11, 2002, 03:18 PM
fabulous!!!

Exsanguination
Apr 11, 2002, 05:47 PM
i havent read every post so this may have been answered, but, is this an install-file (w/ its own installer...) or an unzip, make your own files and such mod?

If it is the latter, i would highly reccomend it having a self-installer w/ all the animations and graphics. Having to sort all of that out would be a HUGE hassle.

But, it sounds very good. Will d/l.

GIDustin
Apr 11, 2002, 05:56 PM
Exsanguination:

I also wanted an all-in-one file of this mod, so I made an installer for it. After I rounded up all the unit animations, the exe came to 45MB. I believe this forum has a maximum size of "500000 bytes".

GIDustin

Kal-el
Apr 11, 2002, 06:44 PM
yeah, there's just too much stuff!!! :D:D:D:D

Elucidus
Apr 11, 2002, 07:16 PM
If it is a zip file, you can just have it unzip everything into the correct locations though. Hope that helps.

Kal-el
Apr 11, 2002, 08:33 PM
Elucidas,

that is true, and I will work on that for the next version.

To all,

do you guys want me to include the original animations if they need to be put into a new unit folder? i.e. do you want me to include the scout animations in the ranger folder?

This will make the downloads that much bigger. but I know some of you are still having problems with it.

Civalaholic
Apr 11, 2002, 11:58 PM
I agree that your early cities might be a bit slow in developing, but that was kind of the point. I wanted to slow down the ancient age a bit to more closely correspond with how things actually played out. Hence, you have to discover the techs for mining, irrigating and building roads. You can't irrigate until crop rotation to represent the dramatic improvement in farming techiques that werew developed during the early middle ages. (I miss the farms of Civ2.)

I think these aspects to your Mod are fantastic. I too miss the farm, boohoohoo. I suggest you drop the food value for plains and up the value of mining them. I have alot of huge cities with a bunch of extra food. I had to plant forests in half my tiles, to compensate the excess food.

This also puts a premium on building your early cities near hills and mountains. Places that will provide not only better mining opportunities but also good places for your defenders. What do I have the forests set at now, isn’t 1/2/1 with a bonus of 1 for mining? That’s more productive than the orignal game because you can mine (harvest) it

My Mod was set at 2/1/1. With 1 bonus for mining. It was one of the first things I changed. But the need for additional strategy in re: to city placement is also cool, although I usually carefully plan city placement. I think city placement is the most important aspect to the ancient age.

A few new suggestions:

Increase the cultural value of the great wall. After all it is the greatest identified man made object the world has ever seen. It attracts more tourists than everything except maybe Jerusalem. The other benefits aren't particularly fantastic, and I never build it.

The newspaper should increase happiness, decrease corruption, and add culture. Even early newspapers were profounldly influential on societies. Throughought history newspapers have educated, promoted literacy, been a source for propaganda, and quelled mass histeria. Maybe have a propagandic newspaper that reduces corruption & increases science and a liberal paper that produces happiness and culture. I don't know, but the newspaper was the earliest form of mass media and had a profound effect on industrial society and I think it's importance should be reflected.

I also question the use of ideas as wonders of the world. The Emancipation act or the civil rights movement were not great wonders, but a social progression. Laws and ethics are temporary and their importance is relative to a specific time period. Large stone structures last the test of time. The constitution will be nothing more than an outdated quaint way of thinking, discussed in philosophy and history classes in a thousand years. A thousand years from now the Statue of Liberty will not exist, it will have long since corroded away. I think by having so many add on wonders your cheapening the true great works of man.

In the general settings, SS parts 11-25 are not required for building the spaceship. They are flagged 0.

Personally I upped the defensive value of towns to 20(You have 0 def bonus).

I think that's it for now.

Thanks again for the great Mod.

Civalaholic
Apr 12, 2002, 12:03 AM
do you guys want me to include the original animations if they need to be put into a new unit folder? i.e. do you want me to include the scout animations in the ranger folder?

I say offer both. A file with everything for youbastards with cable, and a smaller one for us poor people who have to scrape change for dial up.

Civalaholic
Apr 12, 2002, 12:15 AM
Sorry a few more things then I'm done for the night.

There should not be so many units available in the ancient era. Alexander never used an elephent. Ancient warfare should be more difficult to wage, promoting a longer game. But that is just because I love my tanks.

Scientific nations should start w/ 4 techs. I haven't seen any Mod use this.

Mining should be moved back in the tech tree a little.

I'm also having difficulty finding power armor flic's for Mobil Infantry. Where can I find it?

Maybe add a light armored swordsman with a lower def, higher attack, and two moves.

Flag wheeled unit on more military units. Military units weighed down by armor and swords would find it difficult to transverse the swamps. A large jungle between two Civs would be much more of an important geograhical aspect to the game.

OK i'm done

RobO
Apr 12, 2002, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Elucidas,

To all,

do you guys want me to include the original animations if they need to be put into a new unit folder? i.e. do you want me to include the scout animations in the ranger folder?

This will make the downloads that much bigger. but I know some of you are still having problems with it.

Two comments:

1. I thought it was possible to refer animation files from other directories by prefixing a relative path to the filename in the ini file. If so, then that would solve your problem. I could be wrong.

2. Another possibility: Include a small dos batch file that copies all the required files after installation. This would keep down the download size and ensure a correct installation.

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 12:52 AM
so who wants to help out the mod?

I have compiled the bitmaps for the chariot archer and the elephant archer. they are separated into each direction, north, northwest, west, south, and southwest, they are further subdivided into idle, running, attack, and death. this should make it easier for whoever is willing to put them together.

I am posting the files below. please indicate if you have downloaded the files and if youare planning on putting them together. I recommend using the warelephant as the basis for the elephant archer and the war chariot as the basis for the chariot archer. you should export the civ3 flc using the civ color 13. this most closely resembles the blue in the AoE bitmaps and will give you your best results when you reload the palette colors.

elephant archer (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Elephant_Archer.zip)

chariot archer (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Chariot_Archer.zip)

---------------------------------------
civalaholic,

regarding ss parts 11-25. while it is true that those parts are not flagged the other parts 1-10 are flagged to have to be built multiple times.

parts 1, 2 and 5 each have to be built 3 times, part 6 twice and part 10 8 times.

when considering new wonders to add to the game, i looked first at what wonders were already offered in the original game. there you will see things like, Sun Tzu's art of war, Smith's Trading Company, Universal Suffrage, theory of Evolution, Iron Works, Military Academy, Battlefield Medicine, etc. none of the above, and there are others, would qualify under your "giant stone monument" test for Wonders. Emanicpation and the Civil Rights movement were at least of equal importance to Universal Suffrage. A written constitution is a major turning point in a nations political life, granted a country may change its constitution ove time but the wonder in the game is not the particular constitution that was written whenever you build it, but represents the notion that your nation has developed the notion of a constitution, and everything that that stands for, law and order, govt. of the people, for the people, by the people, etc. the statue of liberty may indeed be gone in a thousand years, but then again, the Colossus is no longer standing, nor are the hanging gardens nor the pharos at alexandria, so i guess i don't really see the point there.

re too much food.

what about changing plains from 3/1/1 to 2/2/1?

re scientific nations and four techs.

scientific civs should start out with three techs, because they are supposed to get one free tech at the beginning of each era.

each civ will now have two trait specific units. check out the thread on the main creation forum for more info.

the power armor flics should be in the downloads above or you can find them here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16243)

alexander may not have used war elephants but plenty of people did. the germans never used chariots either but that doesn't prevent them from being in the game or from anybody building them. If your nation has access to elephants and you don't take advantage of that, your military leaders are fools. it wasn't just the indians who rode around on elephants. don't you remember the story of hannibal crossing the alps?


-------------------------------------
RobO

1. you are correct

2. I am DOS illiterate, so if youare offering to do that, that would be great!

Clearly I need help with the packaging of this mod. I would be more than grateful to anybody who would be willing to do this. As, i'm sure would a lot of other people.

--------------------------------------

Well, I think that's all for now. A new version of the bic, along with the fixed tech trees should be ready by monday. so finish off the game you are playing now, and report any other bugs or suggestions. not all suggestions will be incorporated in, but if you make a strong argument for it and it doesn't go against the basic principles of the mod and I don't here anything reacting against it, it has a good chance of getting a look in version 0.2.

RobO
Apr 12, 2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el
-------------------------------------
RobO

1. you are correct

2. I am DOS illiterate, so if youare offering to do that, that would be great!

Clearly I need help with the packaging of this mod. I would be more than grateful to anybody who would be willing to do this. As, i'm sure would a lot of other people.

--------------------------------------


Well, if 1. is correct then 2. is not needed. Simply remove all duplicated files and refer the "original" file from the ini file in a different directory whenever needed. It should tidy everything up and keep the size down.

As for helping, I don't really have a lot of time, and I can't download a whole lot of stuff all the time as I use a 56K modem and pay for the phone connection. And the unit files are extremely large.

RobO
Apr 12, 2002, 01:17 AM
I can see a lot of good effort is going on here, but there are a few things I would like to point to. This is still only approaching version 0.2, so there is a way to go, and there is a lot of potential in this mod.

1. Keep the focus (whatever it is). This is so large and takes in so many varied ideas that it is in danger of becoming a manyheaded beast that can't decide which way to go. Perhaps give it a vision statement or something - double pleasure is good, but not quite precise.

2. Beware of copyright issues. There may be a lot of nice pics in different games, but using them indiscriminately will most likely put some people off, especially when you make it available for free download. And please don't flame me for this - it is a waste of time and not at all constructive. I know this is a hot topic, but I'm just stating an opinion.

3. Beware of game balance. This is a difficult one, and probably requires way too much time and playtesting to be handled well. For example, the missionary I saw in a previous post is a religuous unit, yet it has decidedly expansionist traits (a settler with a move of two). This unit risks making the expansionist trait much less attractive than the religuous trait.

FWIW, these are my opinions and they are offered in a helpful spirit.

Isak
Apr 12, 2002, 02:09 AM
I've got the altered unit ini's for those units that use the original artwork (as stated a few pages back, but I guess I'm on everybody's Ignore list :cry: ) . They are in a zip file which hopefully is attached to this post.[Edit: Deleted the original file - the updated file for v.0.2 can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=246385) ]

And I'll gladly help out packaging the mod.

Regarding balancing
I think I'll wait until the release of v0.2, before adding my own 2 cents - I would like to play around with the stuff that's currently in - after all, It may not be a good idea to change too much at a time - might just throw the game off-balance in another direction.
Though, Robo, You may be right about the expansionist traits becoming less attractive.

GIDustin: What did you include in the zip - i tried collecting all files I have, and only reached 11 mb...

Kal-El:
One Question - Are Settlers supposed to be flagged as wheeled ?

Kingpin
Apr 12, 2002, 09:21 AM
Here's a thought. It seems, from reading this thread, that people are having problems getting the files in the right places and such.

I think this can be accomplished by using two methods.

1/ a DOS batch file that will create folders and copy files to them from existing folders and renaming them as necessary. This would relieve the suffering experienced trying to get all the right stuff copied for the different units and takes care of relocating all the files currently used by Civ3... no need to have to download Megabytes of stuff that's alread on your machine.

2/ a zip file that places all the new files in the correct locations.

Voila! A smaller download and everything in the right place.

What do ya think?

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 12, 2002, 10:03 AM
Couple more beta things...

1. when you build National Health Care, the flic for National Sports League (or so I assume) pops up. On the subject of flics, I like all the ones I've seen so far for the new wonders. Great job.

2. you can discover fascism before you discover totalitarianism, which I think should come after the latter tech, not before....wasn't totalitarianism gonna unlock communist regime w/ marxism and fascist state w/ the corporation?

3. I took a look at the bic file in the editor and looked at the governments, and fascism supports no units per city. There's no unit cost or units supported per town/city/metro, so I set them up to about communism's level. The rate cap was set at 5....wasn't it going to be higher?

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 10:31 AM
Great, Isak or Kingpin, who wants to put it together? Which option would create a smaller download?

--------------------------------
Regarding the Missionary: I see what you mean. What if instead of a move of two they have a move of one but are not wheeled? "Unlike other settlers, Missionaries, spurred on by their religious zeal, are able to cross vast mountain ranges and trek through thick jungles in search of souls to save."

this answers EmperorCoopinius' question. Yes, settlers are supposed to be wheeled, but your initial unit "The Tribe" is not, so if it looks like you may be in a less than ideal spot you will be able to get out of there. but after that no crossing mountains or jungle until you have roads.
--------------------------------

regarding copyright: I am not too worried. It doesn't take too much tweaking to call something your own. All you really need to do is show that you have added some original content and as long as your not selling it you should be ok.

---------------------------------
re health care: thanks, must be a typo. i will look into it and have it fixed for v0.2.

I am glad you like the images.
--------------------------------

and re Fascism and Totalitariansim. yes, fascism is supposed to require totalitarianism and the corporation. communism should require totalitarianism and marxism.

I noticed that last night, too and fixed the tech tree and .bic file to make it so.

Communist Regime
Rate Cap: 8
Worker Rate: 100%
Assimilation Chance: %
Draft Limit:
MP Limit:
Corruption: Communal
Cost/Unit:
Free Units Per:
Town:3 City:6 Metropolis:10
Diplomats:
Spies:
War Wariness: Low
Immune To:
Maintenance: None
Labor: Forced
Standard Trade Bonus: No
Standard Tile Penalty: No

Fascist State
Rate Cap: 9
Worker Rate: 100%
Assimilation Chance: %
Draft Limit: 3
MP Limit: 3
Corruption: Problematic
Cost/Unit:1
Free Units Per:
Town:3 City:6 Metropolis:10
Diplomats:
Spies:
War Wariness: None
Immune To:
Maintenance: Required
Labor: Paid
Standard Trade Bonus: Yes
Standard Tile Penalty: No
---------------------------------

I guess I have more to do than I thought. Thanks for plugging away at the play testing.

Elucidus
Apr 12, 2002, 11:23 AM
Kal-el,

I may have a solution for the too much food thing. We are currently testing a new food system in the Balancer. If you would like to get together and discuss it let me know. I will be home later tonight. I may have some other things you might like. Good Luck, and talk at you later.

Victorvanwavere
Apr 12, 2002, 11:33 AM
Kal-el,

Since the first Beta release there have been a lot of little bugs fixed and small changes make.

Would you maybe please release a beta2 so we all have the latest version. I have tried and make all the samm corrections myself as people found them and you give the corrections, but there are some I dont know how to do and I might have missed one or 2 along the way.

So if it is not to much to ask, could you please release beta2 so we can give it a testing, or give do you have a planed date on release of version2 - maybe once all the buildings are done?

Thenks.

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 12:18 PM
Victorvanwavere,

I am hoping to have beta v.0.2 out by early next week.

I posted this earlier, but it may have gotten lost in the responses to other questions and comments. All of which I truly appreciate, please keep them coming.

A new version of the bic, along with the fixed tech trees should be ready by monday. so finish off the game you are playing now, and report any other bugs or suggestions. not all suggestions will be incorporated in, but if you make a strong argument for it and it doesn't go against the basic principles of the mod and I don't here anything reacting against it, it has a good chance of getting a look in version 0.2.

list of changes:
-----------------------------------------
v.0.2 will fix the following errors:
-----------------------------------------
citizens will no longer have prerequisite techs
Ancient Age Science Advisor: Mining has been moved over to line up with the rest of the starting techs.
Industrial Ages Science Advisor: there is an arrow pointing from industrialization to guerilla warfare
Communism now requires Marxism
Fascism now requires Totalitarianism- the free units will be fixed
Civil Liberties: The arrow from Radio has been moved so that it actually points to Civil Liberties.
Longships will now turn to attack, just like other early ships.
The Circus Maximus will require the 4 coliseums it was supposed to.
Egyptian War Chariot now upgrades to Knights
You will no longer be prompted to build hospitals to raise city levels
Basic Barbarian will now be the Barbarian Warrior
Advanced Barbarian will be the Barbarian Rider
Plains will be switched from 3/1/1 to 2/2/1
National Health Care will point to the right Wondersplash
Actually did lower the player advantage versus barbarians

Starting techs will be fixed:
-Commercial - The Wheel - was alphabet
-Expansionistic - Farming - Was Pottery
-Industrious - Mining - was Masonry
-Militaristic - Warrior Code - used to have option of wheel
-Religious - Ceremonial Burial
-Scientific - Alphabet - was bronze working

-----------------------------------------
Additons:
-----------------------------------------
Trait Specific Units will be added – these units are still up in the air. Iam adding them in so they can be playtested for balance.
-Commercial - Caravan
-Expansionistic - Ranger
-Industrious - Serf
-Militaristic - Brave
-Religious - Missionary
-Scientific – Greek Fire
New Units:
-Convoy - Available with Guilds – Caravan unit for everybody
-Freight - available with Motorized Transportation – Modern Caravan unit
Change to Truck – now available with Mobile Warfare instead of Motorized Transportation

New Tech City - Planning: Requires Steel, Allows Park and Eiffel Tower.

New Improvement - Park: Requires City Planning, adds happiness reduces industrial pollution.

Like I said hoping for early next week, but I have a really busy weekend ahead. thanks for the interest.

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 12:53 PM
Civalaholic brings up a good point about the scientific civs. Why don't they start the game with three techs? They are supposed to get a free random tech at the beginning of each era, but they only get the one tech, in this case alphabet.

I am tempted to give them an additional tech but the only one that isn't a starting tech for some other trait is Masonry. And I don't like that, plus it just seems like that might be too much of an advantage.

thoughts?

-------------------------------
Rob0,

the goal of the mod is to make the game better. Variety being the spice of life, I have tried to add more choices into the game. You will have more decsions to make, when deciding which techs to research, which buildings to build, which wonders to go after, where to put you cities, rivers become much more important for industrial and corruption purposes, even which civ to choose. To accomplish this I have almost doubled the total number of techs, buildings and units that are in the game.

Originally there were:
82 Original Techs
29 Original Improvements
10 Original Small Wonders
24 Original Great Wonders
65 Original Units
6 Original Governmanets
22 Original Resources
------------------------------
238 Total

I added:
49 New Techs
43 New Improvements
16 Small Wonders
25 Great Wonders
48 New Units
4 New Governmanets
3 New Resources
-------------------------------
188 total

Your right, not quite double your pleasure, but pretty darn close. It would be closer if we could add more resources without the game going all buggy.

Isak
Apr 12, 2002, 01:55 PM
Your right, not quite double your pleasure, but pretty darn close. It would be closer if we could add more resources without the game going all buggy. Who measures pleasure in numbers??? No one I know (except maybe a few ladies performing the oldest trade in the world, but that's an entirely different topic)

From the few games I've played, I would say it potentially quadruples your pleasure - I really think the project to add more variety to the game, has been/will be succesful and the great side effect is that our actions will have greater consequence, as it seems it will be extremely hard to have every city build every improvement (at least I hope so - I've only managed to play until around 1200 AD so far, but I was waaay behind in every city even that early in the game) - this adds a totally new dimension to Civ3 - the dimension of ..... (drum roll, please)...: _Strategy_ (Ok, I'm only kidding, Firaxis :p)
.... but IMHO the original is a bit too bland sometimes - I'd personally like to have cities that were totally unique, but I guess that won't be on this side of Civilization 5, so for now, I will stick with the DyP mod.

Back to reality: The Settlers on Wheels, is a good concept, however I think it could lead to some serious distress - what if some poor civ is trapped between a mountain range and a jungle and there's only room enough for one city - by the time he gets roads, everybody else will be flying space shuttles. But okay, lets test it - as I said, there's nothing wrong with the concept of different settler types

About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.

Other than that, keep up the good work. Oh and btw - any chance there'll be a special limited edition release of v. 0.2 - something with a poster, a mug, t-shirt and a silver pin... and most importantly: released before monday:D

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 02:17 PM
Back to reality: The Settlers on Wheels, is a good concept, however I think it could lead to some serious distress - what if some poor civ is trapped between a mountain range and a jungle and there's only room enough for one city - by the time he gets roads, everybody else will be flying space shuttles. But okay, lets test it - as I said, there's nothing wrong with the concept of different settler types

well, hopefully it won't take that long. but if you do find yourself in such a situation its probably best to move your Tribe to a different location right away. The tribe unit is not wheeled and has a 1 for defence. I was thinking about giving them treat all terrain as roads, for this very reason. I can’t imagine people would be using them as scouts, cuz it’s generally a good idea to get that first settlement built as soon as you can. :D They already have the radar flag to help you see whether you are in a good position or not.

About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.
that's good to know. so I will put that back to the way it was.

Other than that, keep up the good work. Oh and btw - any chance there'll be a special limited edition release of v. 0.2 - something with a poster, a mug, t-shirt and a silver pin... and most importantly: released before monday
Sorry, my wife has been out of town for two weeks, and she is finally getting in tonight, only to leave again next week on more business. So, as you can imagine she takes precedent over you guys. :p Believe it or not!: eek:

NightStorm
Apr 12, 2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Isak
About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.

Actually, I played the game all the way through the end of the industrial age (before Kal-el trapped me into doing these buildings :p [just kidding]). Anyway, I didn't have a crash. Maybe because I increased my luxery rate to decrease the civil disorder. Anyone else able to re-create like I have?

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 03:20 PM
I don't think the game actually crashes, iot just won't let you change to specialists.

Isak
Apr 12, 2002, 03:26 PM
Haven't had the crash myself, but Civalaholic seemed to be suffering from it previously, and in this thread at Apolyton (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=43563) it [changing the entertainer to require a tech] is mentioned as one of the things that can make the game hang.

Apparently, it happens if the AI want's to change a citizen to an entertainer but doesn't have the tech yet - probably creates some sort of endless loop, or whatever. Contrary to my previous post, I imagine it could probably happen with any of the other two specialist citizen types, but I have my doubt the AI ever uses any of these until it gets to the point where all city squares are occupied, and by that time the tech has probably been discovered by the AI as well.

Civalaholic (or anyone else who's experienced this), you wouldn't happen to have a save game from this situation, even though the problem is solved now - i would really like to reproduce this bug, to get some info on what happens.

BTW, Nightstorm - I don't know much about art, but I know what I like, and I like your buildings :goodjob: - they can appear in my mod too (in the year 2525, if not later, but still....)


Sorry, my wife has been out of town for two weeks, and she is finally getting in tonight, only to leave again next week on more business. So, as you can imagine she takes precedent over you guys.
You mean I'll have to spend time with my two-year old kid this weekend ..... bugger....... where did I leave that copy of Everquest.. :eek:

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 12, 2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Isak


You mean I'll have to spend time with my two-year old kid this weekend ..... bugger....... where did I leave that copy of Everquest.. :eek:

LOL! :lol:

Nightstorm, I did the same thigh you did, jacked up the luxury rate, and everything worked just fine. The AI did seem to ahve trouble compensating though....Dehi was in civil disorder every time I walked by until I sent some dragoons to put them out of their misery. The AI also got a "hell" spot as I like to call it, Babylon was behind a mountain range with me to the north, and immense jungle to the south. He managed 3 cities, but one of em culture flipped to me, and the second one didn't even have a unit in it when I attacked them.

Having said that, having prereqs for the citizens worked fine for me, and I actually like the idea...if only you could get the AI to raise their luxury rate.

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 04:07 PM
so, has anybody actually gotten the prereqs to work the way they are supposed to.

EC, you say "having prereqs for the citizens worked fine for me, and I actually like the idea." By that do you mean that the scientist and tax collectors work? fine after you switch the entertainers back to no prereq, or what exactly are you saying?

If they work I will leave them and just switch entertainers back to normal.

Kyrillion
Apr 12, 2002, 05:25 PM
Great mod, Kal-el! ^_^ I was playing around wit a small personal mod of my own, and I was wondering how you made the WWW Effect possible only by building the WWW great wonder?? If anyone else also knows, you're not excluded from the question. ^_^

-kyrillion

NightStorm
Apr 12, 2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Isak
BTW, Nightstorm - I don't know much about art, but I know what I like, and I like your buildings :goodjob: - they can appear in my mod too (in the year 2525, if not later, but still....)

I was working on a mod of my own with many of the same concepts and buildings as this mod. But then I found this thread and quit mine all together cause Kal-el was about 2 weeks from beta test and I was about 2 months. Anyway, anything I post on the boards or in someone's mod is free for the taking, as long as you give credit. But, I'm glad you guys like what I'm doing. :goodjob: Now, if only I could remember that magic spell to make a wife quit screaming "GET OFF THAT F*@ING COMPUTER NOW AND COME SPEND TIME WITH ME!!" I'll be all set and be able to finish the buildings (maybe even in time for Kal-el's version 0.2 release next week) :D

Originally posted by Kyrillion
Great mod, Kal-el! ^_^ I was playing around wit a small personal mod of my own, and I was wondering how you made the WWW Effect possible only by building the WWW great wonder?? If anyone else also knows, you're not excluded from the question. ^_^

-kyrillion

In the editor, under Improvements and Wonders, on the left side of that tab, second box down is Improvement/Wonder prerequisite. Just chose which wonder you want as the prerequisite and it is set. And just so you know (in case you do, no offense meant) DO NOT use the Add/Delete buttons in the editor. They do not hard-code anything into the .bic file like the Multi-tool by Gramphos does (found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7787) - Read through the thread). The Multi-tool is very VERY easy to use and it does hard code the addition for you. Not using the Multi-tool can cause many MANY problems (crashes, hang-ups, bugs, etc.)

Kal-el, one last thought for this post and then I am probably done until morning. But, have you thought of adding any civs (I.e. Spanish or any of the others Firaxis left out from Civ 2, or maybe even some new ones)? Might make things too difficult, who knows; just a thought.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 12, 2002, 06:01 PM
Kal

No, I kept all the prereqs in place, but they never caused the game to crash, and after I discovered the required advance I was able to use the specialist with no problem.

NightStorm
Apr 12, 2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by EmprorCoopinius
Kal

No, I kept all the prereqs in place, but they never caused the game to crash, and after I discovered the required advance I was able to use the specialist with no problem.

Ditto for me.

Kal-el
Apr 12, 2002, 08:50 PM
Working faster than the human eye can comprehend I have put together the patch for v.0.2 for your weekend enjoyment.

here it is.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/DyP_patch_v0.2.zip

Patch to v.0.2

just unzip the files to your civilizationIII folder. hopefully they will go where they are supposed to.

you need to copy the proper unit flics into the proper unit folders
copy the scout files into the Brave folder
copy the settler files into the Missionary Folder
copy the worker files into the serf folder
copy the Settler Modern files into the Caravan folder
copy the Settler Modern files into the Convoy folder
copy the Truck files into the freight folder
copy the Catapult files into the Greek Fire folder

could somebody make better ini files and post them to make life easier for everybody else?

I have kept the prereqs for scientists and taxmen
the changes to the terrain are in the readme.
no time to talk
the mrs. just walked through the door.

enjoy! :D

Scipio Africanu
Apr 12, 2002, 08:59 PM
NightStorm, I was wondering if you could post a few more of your delightful pics so I could use them for my mod. Unfortunatly I'm at a loss of pics for my mod and I'm in need of some more pictures, and yours are excellent. All proper credit will be given :).

Kal-El If you need some web space and someone to help you round up all those units and plop them into a workable format I've had my experience with em'. Give me a few days and I probably could round em up and get them in zips ready to go for installation. Either way though, its looking to be a great mod with a signficant fan base you sneaky old bastard. Victori!

NightStorm
Apr 12, 2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Scipio Africanu
NightStorm, I was wondering if you could post a few more of your delightful pics so I could use them for my mod. Unfortunatly I'm at a loss of pics for my mod and I'm in need of some more pictures, and yours are excellent. All proper credit will be given :).

If I could get my ISP to get their FTP server working properly, I already have a basic web page with all of the new graphics. As I do a new pic, I put it into .gif format and add it to the web page. Soon as I can upload, I will post the url for people to see.

Kal-El If you need some web space and someone to help you round up all those units and plop them into a workable format I've had my experience with em'. Give me a few days and I probably could round em up and get them in zips ready to go for installation. Either way though, its looking to be a great mod with a signficant fan base you sneaky old bastard. Victori!

If someone (Scipio Africanu :) ) has space on their server and doesn't mind the number of hits, I may be able to create an install file (or Scipio Africanu could :) ). I have been playing with "Install Maker" and I think I may be able to do it that way. File may be large though, don't know until I play with it. Could always try if 1) you guys and gals don't mind the size if it is too big and 2) if someone was able to donate web space with enough bandwidth (not sure how much bandwidth I'm allowed).

NightStorm
Apr 12, 2002, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Patch to v.0.2

just unzip the files to your civilizationIII folder. hopefully they will go where they are supposed to.


Welllllllllllllllllllll, you are kinda right Kal-el. For everyone's benefit, so you don't have to do what I just did :p , you actually need to unzip the file to C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\ folder. If you unzip to the Civilization III folder, you will just end up with a Civilization III folder with all of the files in it within the true Civilization III folder. In other words, this is what will result
C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Civilization III\ .

No bigee. If people do this they can just cut and paste like I did. :D

RobO
Apr 13, 2002, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el

well, hopefully it won't take that long. but if you do find yourself in such a situation its probably best to move your Tribe to a different location right away. The tribe unit is not wheeled and has a 1 for defence. I was thinking about giving them treat all terrain as roads, for this very reason. I can’t imagine people would be using them as scouts, cuz it’s generally a good idea to get that first settlement built as soon as you can. :D They already have the radar flag to help you see whether you are in a good position or not.



Well, you can always restart if you find yourself stuck in a bad position. An AI that is out of luck is not a real problem IMO, it will just add variety to the game. You usually play against several AI at the same time anyway. Treating terrain as roads would also work, but it defies belief.

Another point, which speaks against giving the initial settler faster movement: Why not let the settlers you get from tribes be identical to the one you get at start - i.e. they are not wheeled. I think this would add spice to the game without throwing it off balance.

RobO
Apr 13, 2002, 01:03 AM
Kal-el wrote this when posting the 0.2 patch:

you need to copy the proper unit flics into the proper unit folders
copy the scout files into the Brave folder
copy the settler files into the Missionary Folder
copy the worker files into the serf folder
copy the Settler Modern files into the Caravan folder
copy the Settler Modern files into the Convoy folder
copy the Truck files into the freight folder
copy the Catapult files into the Greek Fire folder

could somebody make better ini files and post them to make life easier for everybody else?

I would like to draw attention to what Isak wrote on page 6:

I've got the altered unit ini's for those units that use the original artwork (as stated a few pages back, but I guess I'm on everybody's Ignore list :cry: ) . They are in a zip file which hopefully is attached to this post.

It seems his zip didn't make it into the v0.2 patch. And the remark about the Ignore list seems appropriate too :D

Isak
Apr 13, 2002, 06:21 AM
Kal-El: Great - I knew if I pushed a bit, you'd give in...... :D

I'm posting an updated version of the Ini files - again, these files are created so that you don't need to move original artwork into the folders, for all those units that don't have animations and sound yet. [Edit: I've removed the file, and an updated version can be found a bit further down the thread]

All you need to do is unzip (unrar actually - sorry I don't use winzip, but it should be able to handle the file as well) the files into your art/units folder.

If no one want's these ini's, just tell me, and I'll stop posting them and concentrate on playtesting instead.

RobO: Thanks for noticing - oh, and if you need help setting up the Ignore filter, just ask everybody else :rolleyes:

About the Settlers On Wheels, I don't mind if the AI gets a bad starting position either :) but I was thinking a bit further ahead to a time in the near (or far) future where multiplayer might be a serious consideration - but I guess it's way too early to speculate about this, so I've decided to be content with the Settlers for now - I will at least give them a shot before requesting to have them de-wheeled (is there such a word?)

Is anyone working on creating a single file download? zip or exe or whatever. Scipio? Nighstorm?

RobO
Apr 13, 2002, 09:49 AM
Thanks, Isak - I want these ini files even if nobody else does.

A small tip: Don't use blanks in download files. The filename gets truncated at the blank when I try to download them (which is difficult enough as it is from this forum).

I plan to set up v0.2 of this mod in a separate directory, so that I can "easily" swap mods. I won't be able to upload anything, though, as I have a lousy bandwidth. I could burn a CD and snail mail it, but that seems a bit early in the development process.

Isak, where in Denmark do you live?

NightStorm
Apr 13, 2002, 10:14 AM
Ok guys...here is one I was having some difficulty with...call this one "Edison's Lab V 1.0".

I cannot get the second floor balcony railing to turn out correctly, so it because a roof section. Still working on putting in the fine details, but this will work for now. Based my work on these two pictures I found on the internet. Mine is slightly different, but close enough to resemble what it really looked like.

Opinions, comments?

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 13, 2002, 10:26 AM
Looks nice....good idea to find his actual lab and put it in the game.

NightStorm
Apr 13, 2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by EmprorCoopinius
Looks nice....good idea to find his actual lab and put it in the game.

Thanks EC. I'm trying to incorporate real life buildings when I can. For example, Emancipation Proclamation is the Lincoln Memorial.

Status Update: 22 done, 21 left to do. Will start on buildings for the city aerial view and try to get that working afterwards.

Kal-el, I have a good medical looking/science type building for genetic tailoring. Any way we can rename it something like Genetic Research Facility or Gene Tailoring Lab or the like? Or would that be too much stuff to change in the .bic file? Just thought that would sound better, unless I'm missing the point.

RobO
Apr 13, 2002, 11:15 AM
OK, I set up v0.2 in a separate directory, including the updated ini files by Isak. I found a number of problems, listed below. Note that I have been unable to find solutions to all of them. My solutions are in most cases assumed, and thus open to correction.

I have sent the ini file to Isak so he can update his download.

I would suggest to Kal-el that you make a v0.21 or v.03 including these corrections after the unresolved issues are ironed out. You might consider offering a new unit file download . It would probably prevent a number of crashes due to bad file locations and/or references.

Problem:
Art\Units\Airbase\Airbase.ini refers airbase.flc while the directory contains airstrip.flc
Solution:
Rename airstrip.flc to airbase.flc

Problem:
Art\Units\APC\APC.ini refers APCAttackA.flc while the directory contains APCAttack.flc
Solution:
Rename APCAttack.flc to APCAttackA.flc

Problem:
Colonist.ini refers unexisting Wagon files
Solution:
Colonist.ini should be updated with references to Pioneer animations

Problem:
Cavalry.ini has lots of references to ..\Calvary\Cavalrysomething.wav
Cavalry.ini also has lots of references to Bandit animations (these files are in fact present in the cavalry directory)
Dragoon.ini has references to Cavalry animations and Cavalry sounds but no files in the directory.
Solution:
Correct the references in Cavalry.ini and copy the following files from the original Cavalry directory to the Dragoon directory: All amb files, all Cavalry*.flc files and the Death, Fidget, Fortify and Victory wave files.
Note:
It would be easier to put the Cavalry files in the Cavalry directory and edit Dragoon.ini - this way fewer files need to be downloaded. In fact, upon reconsideration I would recommend this instead of the solution mentioned above.

Problem:
Isaks ini files set contains an Elephant Rider which I cannot find in v0.2
Solution:
Please help me out on this one.

Problem:
The Humvee uses the truck files, so these are duplicated.
Solution:
Delete them from the Humvee directory and update Humvee.ini

Problem:
Musketman.ini (and Arquebois.ini) refers MusketmanAttack.wav, but there is no such file in the original Musketman directory.
Solution:
Please help me out on this one.

Problem:
The Naval mine uses the land mine files, so these are duplicated.
Solution:
Delete them from the Naval mine directory and update Naval mine.ini

Problem:
The Partisan directory contains both Partisan.ini and Sniper.ini. Is this as it should be?
Solution:
Pease help me out on this one.

Problem:
The Pps-15 directory contains a lot of duplicated infantry files.
Solution:
Update PPS-15 Radar.ini and delete all Infantry files from this directory.

Problem:
Spy.ini contains a number of references to Immortal sounds without proper directory path.
Solution:
Prefix ..\Immortals\ to the entries.

Problem:
Trireme.ini contains a number of references to Galley files without proper directory path.
Solution:
Prefix ..\Galley\ to the entries.

Kal-el
Apr 13, 2002, 12:21 PM
here is an updated Units_32.pcx

You should be able to just unzip it to your civilzationIII folder. I tested it on mine and it worked. so ...

Isak,

I am not ignoring you. :) I appreciate your help with the .ini files. Hopefully that will all be a moot point once all the animations are put together.

RobO,

thank you for also working on the .ini files.

the elephant rider images are not available yet. so until they are the ini should reference the war elephant. GIDustin is putting this together and should have it done soon.

ok, got to go.

RobO
Apr 13, 2002, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
RobO,

thank you for also working on the .ini files.

the elephant rider images are not available yet. so until they are the ini should reference the war elephant. GIDustin is putting this together and should have it done soon.

ok, got to go.

OK, but I don't think there is an Elephant Rider directory in your unit files (the set of 9) and in the v0.2 patch. There shoud be.

Also, I would like an answer to my other questions (partisan and musketman IIRC) when you get the time.

Isak
Apr 13, 2002, 02:14 PM
RobO:

Good job, you're a regular Sherlock Holmes :cool:

Most of your solutions seem good (as in: Necessary)

Some comments:
Colonist.ini refers unexisting Wagon files
I have the wagon.flc's - posted below - don't ask me where I got them, I've spent 30 minutes trying to track my movement for the past week, and I simply haven't got a clue. [ Edit: The Wagon files are actually in the Pioneer folder, so I've updated the Colonist.ini and added it to the Ini file Collection below]

Musketman and Arquebusier:

My files refer to MusketmanAttack.AMB not .wav - but again I can't keep track of whether i've changed this or downloaded it from another source or whatever...

Partisan:

I think the sniper.ini in the partisan folder is just a leftover from the original unit - it can be safely deleted anyway, as it will not have any effect when not in a folder named "Sniper"

Again - Great job. Now, If no one else is working on a single file download, I think i will - I currently have the entire set down to about 12Mb, and just need to make sure there are no mess-ups - my brain is really beginning to fry over this .ini file business
:confused:

I've attached an updated ini file - it contains the files that were in the first one, and updated ini's for

- Cavalry
- Colonist
- Dragoon
- HumVee
- Musketman
- Naval Mine
- PPS-15
- Spy
- Trireme

If I missed something, just post comments or questions here - I've decided to give up regular life anyway :crazyeye: so I'm almost always around.

Isak
Apr 13, 2002, 02:22 PM
Edit:

Found out where i got the Colonist files from and quickly removed the download for the wagon files :cool:

Kal-el
Apr 13, 2002, 06:30 PM
RobO,

Ok, I will check on the elephant rider.

Isak is right on the other two, Arquebusier and Partisan.

MusketmanAttack.amb and the Sniper.ini is just a leftover.

-----

Back to work.

Kal-el
Apr 13, 2002, 06:42 PM
nightstorm,

regarding the genetic tailoring. this represents genetic manipulation of the species. a la Gattaca or even further tampering by creating super beings, hence the increased production to the creator.

Scipio Africanu,

regarding webspace and an easy install, I think that would be great once the whole thing is finished. I would love to make this mod as user friendly as possible.

To everyone,

I know that the units issue is a bit frustrating. I am sorry.:( Although I love computers, I do not know my way around them as well as I should. I appreciate your patience and help in getting this thing up and running.

Just think, as soon as we have graphics for all the individual units over half of these .ini headaches will be gone.

(shameless call for people to pick up the task of putting the elephant archer, missionary and chariot archer together. ) ;)

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 06:13 AM
I need opinions. For Genetic Tailoring, do you guys like a medical looking building like this...

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 06:14 AM
Damn me, for got to attach image. Anyway, for Genetic Tailoring, do you guys like a medical looking building like this...

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 06:15 AM
Or a DNA strand like so.

Isak
Apr 14, 2002, 07:03 AM
Nightstorm:
Genetic Tailoring: The symbolic value of the DNA is hard to beat, so the latter gets my vote.

Kal-El: Although I love computers, I do not know my way around them as well as I should. I appreciate your patience and help in getting this thing up and running. Heck, any creative designer has a bunch of people around him to do all the dirty work - that's just the way it has to be, otherwise you won't have any time left for being creatively designing - so don't hesitate to ask (and dont hesitate to demand either, I think we're all as anxious as you to make this mod the greatest ever) ;)

Now about the single file download and all related issues - I wouldn't mind doing it, but I have a feeling that putting more versions of the mod into circulation isn't really what the world needs at the moment, and I assume that by now we have all managed to sort out our folders and files, so that the game is at least working. Like Kal-El, I'd prefer to wait until v1.0 is released, but, again if demand is high enough, I can go ahead and find server space and upload the files, if no one else volunteers. Gimme some opinions on this.

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Isak
Nightstorm:
Genetic Tailoring: The symbolic value of the DNA is hard to beat, so the latter gets my vote.

DNA - 1
Building - 0

Anyone else :D

RobO
Apr 14, 2002, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by NightStorm


DNA - 1
Building - 0

Anyone else :D

Make that:

DNA - 2
Building - 0

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 14, 2002, 10:49 AM
DNA pulls further into the lead, leading 3-0.

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 12:57 PM
Looks like the DNA one will end up winning. Which makes my decision for the Human Genome Project very easy. This is part of the actual graphic for the real life Human Genome Project.

Kal-el
Apr 14, 2002, 03:17 PM
I realized this morning that you guys probably have no idea what I am talking about when I am talking about the different govt. graphics. I checked and I didn't include the new tech icons in the orginal downloads. measure twice cut once, right, wrong. never quite got the hang of that.

here are the new images for the tech tree. unzip it to your art folder.

I am going to link it in the first thread too.

Nightstorm,

Add my vote to the other three, but with a bit of a caveat. Is it possible to make the genetic tailoring monument just a tad smaller? No big deal if you don’t, just thought it might look that much better.

amadeus
Apr 14, 2002, 05:19 PM
Didn't your mothers tell you it was wrong to steal from SimCity 3000? :p

Isak
Apr 14, 2002, 05:54 PM
rmsharpe:

Well, talented artists always find inspiration from each other...


- and the _really_ good ones steal....:D

NightStorm
Apr 14, 2002, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by rmsharpe
Didn't your mothers tell you it was wrong to steal from SimCity 3000? :p

Call it creative inspiration. Get a building from the exchange and modify it some what with the Building Architecht and Paint Shop Pro and then use it as something else . Doesn't even have to be used as what it is used for in the other game, which most of the bases that I got from SC3K aren't (except Lincoln Memorial). Kal-el pointed me towards SC3K anyway. But, like we said before, since there are slight alterations, it isn't copyright infringement :)

Besides, there are enough base images from other sources and enough of my own images to call them all my own. :cool:

Originally posted by Isak
Well, talented artists always find inspiration from each other...
- and the _really_ good ones steal.... :D

AMEN BROTHER! PREACH ON BROTHER ISAK!! :D

GIDustin
Apr 14, 2002, 10:44 PM
Kal-el: Do you have an estimated date for the final release with all the SC3k graphics? I would really like to see this.

P.S. Due to the eccessively huge amount of civilopedia entries in your mod, I may not be done with your civilopedia.txt until later this week.

Also, with the pedia entries, you have historical background (#DESC_BLDG_????) for almost everything, but I havent the slightest clue what to put on the regular entry(#BLDG_????). Any suggestions?

BTW I am not a big fan of history (why memorize history when you can create your own in Civ3?), so all those w/o historical information are going in empty. I will post a list of entries still needing a DESC_ when I finish.

GIDustin

RobO
Apr 15, 2002, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el
I realized this morning that you guys probably have no idea what I am talking about when I am talking about the different govt. graphics. I checked and I didn't include the new tech icons in the orginal downloads. measure twice cut once, right, wrong. never quite got the hang of that.

I have a suggestion that would eliminate this problem. I think we need a release manager. I also think Isak would fit the job perfectly :) .

Here is how it would work:

All additions and improvements are submitted to Kal-el and/or posted here. Kal-el will be the meeting point (call him a product manager if you like :) )

Before release, Kal-el makes sure that the release manager has all the relevant and correct material. Kal-el has all the relevant knowledge and thus probably writes the readme updates. The release manager (who I'm sure has kept a copy of all the mod files in a separate directory ;) ) can then assemble the release and post it.

I think this would be extremely helpful, both in reducing the numer of crashes peple get and in making this available to a larger audience. What do you think?

On a similar topic: For the next release, I would like to have a full release as well as an update to the v0.2. I also think the full release should be posted in zip files that fit on a diskette, and it should be installable by unzipping it in the Civilization 3 directory on top of the original game, patched to 1.17.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 10:07 AM
RobO,

I think those are all great ideas.

So who wants to do what?

Nightstorm is working on the building graphics.

GIDustin is putting together the descriptive part of the civilopedia.

We need someone to do the regular part of the civilopedia entires, the part that says how to use the unit/improvement/resource in the game.

Defintely need a relaease manager.

Need some people to put together a few more units.

What else?

GIDustin,

I have no estimated release date at this time.

I don't think waiting til later this week will kill anybody. :D

I haven't given much thought the the regular part of the entries. I guess I was waiting to see what they all ended up doing, before I started writing anything on that. Aren't the regular entries basically guides to what the things do in the game?

Maybe once you are done somebody could volunteer to put the regular part of the entires together.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 10:54 AM
I was wondering if somebody would take up the task of editing my more “aesthetically pleasing” map to update it with the new resources? The map is an update of Marla's map. I redid europe, North Africa, east Asia and North America. Is anybody interested in doing this? If you are let me know.

There is a link to the map in my sig.

here is a preview of Europe and North Africa (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3images/maps/europe_naf.jpg)

and here is a preview of North America (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/north_america_small.jpg)

Thanks,

NightStorm
Apr 15, 2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
RobO,

Nightstorm is working on the building graphics.

Robo,

Just to clarify date for my stuff, should be within a day or two. I only have graphics for Internet, Newspaper and WWW to finish. Anybody have any ideas as far as a building or monument that would represent the Internet or WWW. I will still be working on buildings throughout the final release of the mod to try to upgrade each and make them look better, if they need it. But, the buildings part for the civilopedia will be done, I would say tomorrow. I am going to try to mess around with the aerial city view to see if I can get that to work. If so, I will then be converting all the new stuff to work with the aerial view as well.

Also, I need votes for which tollhouse you like better (Left or Right). I think I like the left better (Kal-el's version), but I was messing around to see if I could get one to work.

pesoloco
Apr 15, 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
There are 3 files. 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 files

3 files. 3 is the numer of the files and the number of the files shall be 3. download 3, no more no less. 3 shall be the number though shall download and the number of the downloading shall be 3. 4 shall thou not download, neither download thou 2 excepting that thou then proceed to 3, 5 is right out.

what if i just download 1??? (just joking) :lol:

good work

pesoloco
Apr 15, 2002, 01:02 PM
Just curious if you guys got the improvement pictures to show up in city aerial view or if these are only civilopedia pictures.

I know it can be done if you replace the images of existing improvements. I have been working on the additional_building.pcx file but as of now have not got any extra buildings to show up.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 01:20 PM
Nightstorm,

How bout both. Use the one on the left for ancient and middle ages and then the one on the right for the industrial and modern.

What I don’t like about the one that I provided is that it doesn’t really fit in with the rest of them. What I suggest is that you move the toll bar in closer to the tollhouse, and remove the grass and trees but leave the road. I was planning on doing this myself until you so graciously offered to help.

As far as the WWW is concerned how about a monument with a globe with WWW around it, similar to the wonder splash image.

For the internet maybe show 3 or more computers arrayed horizontal (in a triangle or whatever facing outward) connected to a server (black box) as the hub with wires as the spokes? Is that clear? I don’t think I was able to express the idea in words. Try this, think of a wheel lying on its side with the server as its hub and at the end of each spoke (which are represented by wires, phone cords) is a computer monitor. Put this on a monument pedestal and you’re all set.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by RobO,
Another point, which speaks against giving the initial settler faster movement: Why not let the settlers you get from tribes be identical to the one you get at start - i.e. they are not wheeled. I think this would add spice to the game without throwing it off balance.

RobO,

I think this is actually necessary. Who wants to get a settler from a goody hut in the middle of the jungle and not be able to move them from there until you can get a road into them. That would suck. So this is a change that will definitely be implemented.

How to do it is the question. There is no, or at least I am not aware of any, tab to change the type of unit that you get from a goody hut. Yo can change the type of resource that pops out, default is gp, you can switch this to horses, iron, gems, etc. but I haven’t seen a tab that allows you to alter the type of settler that you get. You can alter the type of unit that is changed to when you capture a settler, and what kind of unit you get from victorious armies, but no settler from hut. I am hoping it is related to the settler’s position in the bic, i.e. whatever unit is in the first slot, the other option would be that it is name related. I think the way to implement this would be to rename the settler nomads and then create a whole new settler unit. This would only work if it directly related to the bic position. If it is name related then I need to rename the settler “Tribe” and rename “the Tribe” “Settler”. I would rather have it be bic position related, actually either way I think I will make a new settler unit so that you get Nomads, not more Tribes from the goody huts.

I will wait to hear if people have any ideas on how to implement this, before I actually go in and start changing things. So what do you think?

grunging
Apr 15, 2002, 03:03 PM
3 shall be the number .... best movie ever!!!!!! :goodjob:

I really want to play to your mod but i can't read everything, where are the last THREE files i shall download (what page)???
And are you sure i don't have to download another file to play (like a map or something). :rolleyes: Do you play with 1.17???
Did you change the civs?? If you did i hope you 've made the french a great civilisation!!!!! ( right i'm french maybee it could explain some grammar mistakes)

Isak
Apr 15, 2002, 03:10 PM
Ok, I'll volunteer to be release manager - does that mean I'll have to clean up the mess on my own harddrive first ? :crazyeye:

About pesoloco's questions, I'm curious too - are they for city view or civilopedia or both (or neither :confused: )

And now for a long and tedious lists of issues that came up while I was waltzing through the BIC yesterday

1. Copernicus Observatory is flagged as Expansionist - shouldn't that be Scientific ?

2. Roman Legionaires upgrade to Persian Immortals ? Shouldn't that be Longswordsmen

3. The Barbarian Rider only has a movement of 1 - Should be 2 or..?

4. This might be my lack of understanding with the deeper game mechanics, but I noticed the Naval Mine is flagged as a Land Unit?

5. Caravan has Rate of Fire set to 2 ?

6. Arquebusier upgrades to Musketeer which is only available to the French - I guess this should be Musketman instead.

7. The Spy has no entry in the Civilopedia Entry dialogue box .

8. Knight Upgrades to Chinese Rider. Should perhaps be Dragoon.

9. War Elephant requires Furs?? I'm guessing it should be ivory, unless you've got some Mammooth thing going on ("Ok guys, cover the Elephant in furs while I glue these tusks to it's cheeks.. it'll scare the sh.. out of them Romans")

10. Elephant Archer upgrades to War Elephant which is only available to India - maybe this should be Horse Archer?

Again I might just be missing some crucial point about the game mechanics, so don't hesitate to slap my wrists (or whatever) - merely trying to point out some stuff that looked like minor inconsistencies to me, and thought we might as well weed them out before the new release manager takes over ;) (I hear he's really tough)

About the Settlers From Huts Dilemma, I have a gut feeling it could be the unit selected as Start Unit 1 under the General Settings - but i will have to test if I ever get the time to play :) . Has anyone else noticed which units they have been getting from goody huts while playing this mod?

On a final note - I would gladly help out with some of the other stuff that needs to be done - I might volunteer to do some of the civilopedia entries - and later tonight I'll go read a bit about Flicster, and If I get really clever I might put together a few units as well. :rolleyes:

I'm getting too old for this sh..

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 03:12 PM
all the files you need are in the first post. download everything that is there, it includes the original files, the patch to v.0.2 and some other files I forgot to add in. there are smaller downloads later in the thread.

It is not set to be played on any particular map. I will eventually edit my "more aesthetically pleasing earth" map to incorporate the new resources, but until that time it needs to be played on a randomly generated map.

I did not change the civs, other that changing the starting techs to match the changes in the tech tree and adding more city names. Oh, and I changed some of the build oftens, and I changed the favorite and shunned government types, but other than that, :), the civs are the same.

hope you enjoy the mod.

say thanks to everybody who is working on it. :goodjob: everybody.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 03:24 PM
yeah, we have a release manager. aren't you all happy now!?!?!

thanks Isak!

Isak,

1. Copernicus Observatory is flagged as Expansionist - shouldn't that be Scientific ?

Should be Scientific, I dont think I changed that though, and I guess I can see how they thought it was expnsionistic. "Space, the final frontier."

2. Roman Legionaires upgrade to Persian Immortals ? Shouldn't that be Longswordsmen

That is part of the wierd Firaxian fix to the upgrade tree, I saw that and thought to myself, "don't mess with what you don't understand."

3. The Barbarian Rider only has a movement of 1 - Should be 2 or..?

Yes

4. This might be my lack of understanding with the deeper game mechanics, but I noticed the Naval Mine is flagged as a Land Unit?

should be naval unit

5. Caravan has Rate of Fire set to 2 ?

I used the copy tool to copy the catapult, in order that it could be captured and forgot to edit that out.

6. Arquebusier upgrades to Musketeer which is only available to the French - I guess this should be Musketman instead.

the Arquebusier was originally the musketman, and this is part of the Firaxian upgrade chain. Don't ask me?

7. The Spy has no entry in the Civilopedia Entry dialogue box .

should be "PRTO_Spy"

8. Knight Upgrades to Chinese Rider. Should perhaps be Dragoon.

Talk to Firaxis :)

9. War Elephant requires Furs?? I'm guessing it should be ivory, unless you've got some Mammooth thing going on ("Ok guys, cover the Elephant in furs while I glue these tusks to it's cheeks.. it'll scare the sh.. out of them Romans")

lol, should be ivory, smart @ss

10. Elephant Archer upgrades to War Elephant which is only available to India - maybe this should be Horse Archer?

yeah, ok

regarding flicster,

JimmyH, over on the Unit Request: Missionary (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20036) thread, has indicated that he is working on a program that will automatically convert the AoE and AoK units to Flicster PCX files. so hold off on that. (cringe - can't believe I just told anybody to hold off on putting together these units which I have been asking for for the past 4 months):crazyeye:

GIDustin
Apr 15, 2002, 05:05 PM
I hope that the post about the tool that converts AoE stuff to pcx is true. Well, Actually I will be happy that I dont have to continue editting this dern pcx file zoomed in to the point where I can count pixels, but then again I will be mad that it wasnt released before i started . . .

Anyway, it is a really good idea. I want a copy as soon as it is finished and then I guess i can make some units for the mod (AoE units only though :p )

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 15, 2002, 05:36 PM
Comment on the goody hut thing..

Evry time I'v epopped one and gotten a settling unit, it's been a The Tribe...as in..'A friendly Illinois The Tribe wants to join our despotism!" So I haven't had any problems with a settler stuck in the middle of the jungle.

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 07:00 PM
so I should rename "the Tribe" to just "Tribe", thanks for the update.

Ok, so apparently there's a new patch coming out this Friday. This may change some things, will have to wait til Wednesday to see.

and here I thought the creative process was nearing completion. :)

Can't wait to see what new options are available.

NightStorm
Apr 15, 2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Nightstorm,

How bout both. Use the one on the left for ancient and middle ages and then the one on the right for the industrial and modern.

What I don’t like about the one that I provided is that it doesn’t really fit in with the rest of them. What I suggest is that you move the toll bar in closer to the tollhouse, and remove the grass and trees but leave the road. I was planning on doing this myself until you so graciously offered to help.

Hmmm...ok, I'll mess around and see what I can do. I am actually in the process of working on Toll Both v2.0. I don't like what I did for v1.0. I originally designed it as a 1x1 in the SC3K Architect Tool, but I think I'll make it a 2x2, just so it doesn't get blown up during the conversion process and get all blurry.

As far as the WWW is concerned how about a monument with a globe with WWW around it, similar to the wonder splash image.

For the internet maybe show 3 or more computers arrayed horizontal (in a triangle or whatever facing outward) connected to a server (black box) as the hub with wires as the spokes?

Hmmm...I'll play with that too and see what I come up with.

And just so everyone knows, I am finished with the buildings and they have been zipped and emailed to Kal-el (all except internet and www of course). I see there was some question about which these were for. These are initially only for the civilopedia. I am, however, working on trying to get them to show up in the aerial view without having to delete something else from the aerial view.

Also, Kal-el: were you gonna update the buildings-small.pcx and buildings-large.pcx files so that the buildings show up in the build queue or would you like me to work on that too?

Ok, I can't remember anything else, so I gues that is it for now. :lol:

Kal-el
Apr 15, 2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by NightStorm

Also, Kal-el: were you gonna update the buildings-small.pcx and buildings-large.pcx files so that the buildings show up in the build queue or would you like me to work on that too?


could you please? Thanks. I am eagerly anticpating their arrival in my inbox.

GIDustin
Apr 15, 2002, 08:39 PM
I hope the patch allows us to add ariel views of our buildings without replacing current ones. If i was in charge of ariel view images, I would wait until later this week to see if Firaxis added a fix to that in the patch (*wink wink*)

pesoloco
Apr 15, 2002, 08:46 PM
The aerial view images are something i've been working at extensively. I have tried just about everything with no success except replacing whats already there

I put a tutorial about in in the tutorials section.

NightStorm
Apr 15, 2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Thanks. I am eagerly anticpating their arrival in my inbox.

As of the posting of this post, they were emailed to you 5 hours ago. I can always post them here if you would like.

Originally posted by GIDustin
I hope the patch allows us to add ariel views of our buildings without replacing current ones. If i was in charge of ariel view images, I would wait until later this week to see if Firaxis added a fix to that in the patch (*wink wink*)

WOW! I must have missed something cause I didn't realize there was a patch coming out this weekend. Anyone know about when and which thread it is in?

Originally posted by pesoloco
I put a tutorial about in in the tutorials section.

Can I have a link to the thread, to see if I can gleam anything from it and try anything different. I don't seem to be able to find it (probably cause I'm exhausted :) )

pesoloco
Apr 15, 2002, 08:59 PM
sure, here is the tutorial thread:
Adding Buildings to City Aerial View (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18807)

Firaxis wants to put this tutorial on their web site. Hopefully it will be helpful to you guys who want to add images for this mod. I think some of my images (Spirit of St Louis and Circus Maximus) may already be part of this mod.

"Nice job" to everyone who helped put this mod together.:goodjob:

RobO
Apr 15, 2002, 11:28 PM
To Nightstorm: The WWW is easy :D
Just use a creative combination of the world (or any good looking planet) and a spiderweb.

Regarding upgrade chains:
As I understand it, the civ specific units are placed into the chain in order to allow those civs to do the upgrade. If a civ can't build a particular unit in the chain, it is just ignored and the upgrade passes on to the next unit in the chain. So, you need to consider the whole chain when you make changes.

Kal-el
Apr 16, 2002, 12:15 AM
pesoloco,

actually i used your spirit of st. louis and your sydney opera house, but the circus maximus i got from caesar 3.

thanks for the images. I think i mentioned you in the readme, if not the oversight will be corrected.

Isak
Apr 16, 2002, 02:09 AM
The Firaxis Upgrade Chain

Kal-El:
Wow, I wasn't aware of this upgrade chain thing - RobO's theory is probably right. My big question to Firaxis would be........(drum roll) _Why?_ (And I guess their answer would be: "We are game design gurus - we do as we please")
Originally posted by Kal-el
Thanks. I am eagerly anticpating their arrival in my inbox Naturally the release manager is dying to see these as well ;)

RobO
Apr 16, 2002, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by Isak
Wow, I wasn't aware of this upgrade chain thing - RobO's theory is probably right. My big question to Firaxis would be........(drum roll) _Why?_ (And I guess their answer would be: "We are game design gurus - we do as we please")

No need to ask Firaxis - it does in fact make a lot of sense. It is a simple and effective way of getting the civ specific units into the upgrade chain. In other words, a good design :goodjob:

Isak
Apr 16, 2002, 05:36 AM
Maybe I'm just being grumpy, but I still don't see the need to make it a chain in the first place.

After all, it would be easier just being able to set the "Upgrade to" attribute without having to worry about any 'chain'.

Does anyone know what would happen if "Upgrade to" attributes were set as I suggested previously?

[ Edit: Ok, I took a cold shower and figured it out myself - no need to elaborate on this any more. I still think it's a dumb workaround though :p ]

pesoloco
Apr 16, 2002, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el
pesoloco,

actually i used your spirit of st. louis and your sydney opera house, but the circus maximus i got from caesar 3.

thanks for the images. I think i mentioned you in the readme, if not the oversight will be corrected.

cool. :lol: :goodjob:

grunging
Apr 16, 2002, 01:59 PM
At the end of my first turn it bugged ( bad allocation). I'm using the 0.2 version.
Do you know why???? I just copied the file into the right directory is there something else to do??? I want to play, I want to play!!!!

Kal-el
Apr 16, 2002, 02:14 PM
most likely has something to do with the unit files. double check everything to make sure the unit files are in the right folders. This will all be cleaned up in the next release, now that we have Isak working on it, and are not leaving it up to me.

The next release is not scheduiled until after the release of the latest patch. Hopefully the patch will lift some of the restrictions I was running into with regards to improvements, units and resources. xed fingers

grunging
Apr 16, 2002, 02:20 PM
Ok i'll try to stop playing civ3 for a few days (prety hard isn't it?)

Kal-el
Apr 16, 2002, 03:24 PM
you shouldn't have to quit cold turkey. just double check everything. Did you download the updated ini files?

what were you doing when the game crashed?

Isak
Apr 16, 2002, 03:28 PM
For those dying to Double Their Pleasure ;)

[Edited out Installation Instructions for v.0.2]

Get Version 0.3 from The Double Your Pleasure Website (http://civ3.bernskov.com) instead.

//Release manager signing out// :crazyeye:

NightStorm
Apr 16, 2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by grunging
Ok i'll try to stop playing civ3 for a few days (prety hard isn't it?)

You think that was hard, try stopping play so that you can finish up the graphics you need to finish so the release manager does not cancel Valentines Day and Easter too!!! :lol: (inside joke ;) )
UPDATE: Christmas has been re-instated per the release manager!! YA-HOOOOO :)

Anyway, here are the finished graphics I've been working on. If you guys have any suggestions after they are installed, let me know, as I am already putting together version 2.0.

They are broken down into 3, not 4 and not 2, files (to meet the 500k limit). Make sure the files are unzipped into the C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\Buildings folder.

Note: 1) These files posted for Kal-el's benefit (Hotmail can accept large files :mad: )
2) You need WinAce to open these files. It can be found on the internet at .winace.com (http://www.winace.com) .


UPDAETD FILE - CORRECTIONS MADE

NightStorm
Apr 16, 2002, 04:15 PM
And file #2

UPDAETD FILE - CORRECTIONS MADE

NightStorm
Apr 16, 2002, 04:16 PM
And finally, #3

UPDAETD FILE - CORRECTIONS MADE

nzrock
Apr 16, 2002, 04:51 PM
Hi

Nightstorm
Great work putting all the pics together.

But I was looking thru the third file & noticed that there was no
stonehengelarge or pathenonlarge pcx file.

Are these pic's needed ? :confused:

Exsanguination
Apr 16, 2002, 04:53 PM
whew! this mod sounds awesome! but it goes waaaaaaaay over my head... how long does it take for most of you to get everything set up right and good? there must be a better way...

NightStorm
Apr 16, 2002, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by nzrock
Hi

Nightstorm
Great work putting all the pics together.

But I was looking thru the third file & noticed that there was no
stonehengelarge or pathenonlarge pcx file.

Are these pic's needed ? :confused:

My bad :( . I somehow left them out of the file. But, that has been corrected. All three files were changed to meet the size limits and to add in some others that were left out, so I appologize that you have to download three files again.... Hope you have cable!! :p (let me know if there are any more missing.)

Originally posted by Exsanguination
whew! this mod sounds awesome! but it goes waaaaaaaay over my head... how long does it take for most of you to get everything set up right and good? there must be a better way...

Let me see...yes, this is by far the most awesome mod in existance...it pretty much turns this game into Civilization IV. Way over your head, nah...pretty easy when you get into it. Just read some of the posts in this thread and play a few times and it will all make sense. How long does it take...don't ask, you don't want to know...Kal-el will probably never be done or satisfied with it (pokes Kal-el in the side and laughs :rolleyes: ). A better way, nope...this is the only way and we WILL convert all disbelievers.

Oh yeah, and did I mention the buildings :D :goodjob: :lol:

Any ideas/comments/suggestions for my buildings version 2.0 let me know guys...enjoy them...

RobO
Apr 17, 2002, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Isak
For those dying to Double Their Pleasure ;)

If you go to thefirst page (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19742) of the thread, in Kal-El's first post, there are 6 files, and you'll need all of those in order to play.
1of3_Kal-els_Double_Your_Pleasure_Civ3mod_v0.1.zip
2of3_Kal-els_Double_Your_Pleasure_Science_Advisor.zip
3of3_Kal-els_Double_Your_Pleasure_Wonder_Splashes.zip
DyP_patch_v0.2.zip
tech chooser.zip
dyp_inifiles_v0203.zip


As far as I can see, this does not provide any unit files apart from the ini files, so it shouldn't work :( . As I'm pretty sure the previous downloads (on page 2 and 3 of this threads) provide several duplicated files, I would strongly suggest that Isak provides a new unit download.

Kal-el
Apr 17, 2002, 02:14 AM
Rob,

if only we could devote our entire lives to civ3 ...

we are working on the mod, but we have outside lives as well, believe it or not.

All the files that are needed to play this mod are here on this thread. the unit files may not be in the first thread, but they are on the thread, in several places.

the end user just needs to download the units and then install the updated ini files over those.

we will eventually get all the bugs worked out of this and have everything in one nice neat post, the first post. there will never be just one single complete download, there are too many additional files needed to play the game, not even considering all the added units. the next update will not be until after the next patch comes out. we are all waiting to see what firaxis has in store for us. until then ...

nzrock,

don't worry about the missing parthenonlarge.pxc, the parthenon didn't make it into the mod. almost, but not quite.

RobO
Apr 17, 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Rob,

if only we could devote our entire lives to civ3 ...

we are working on the mod, but we have outside lives as well, believe it or not.


He he, so do I :)
I get your point, I'm just a wee bit of a perfectionist :cry: and I like to simplify and structure things. Don't worry :D

Isak
Apr 17, 2002, 07:33 AM
I actually agree with Kal-El, that a bit of work should be expected in order to get this mod installed, but I'm also very much a perfectionist so I've decided to upload a units.zip.

I've updated the install instructions above, but note that right now I'm having some trouble with the fileserver, so the units.zip isn't downloadable yet - I will update this message when it is.

OK, It's working now - I just had me a case of the old "spot the missing capital letter - blues", so no need to blame the server

NightStorm
Apr 17, 2002, 11:03 AM
Hey folks,

If anyone has played the game through far enough to develop nuclear weapons, I need a copy of one of their saved games please. I need get a screen shot of the nuke going off and see if I can incorporate that into version 2.0 of the buildings. May even be able to use a screen shot or saved game of a nuke going off in Civ2 if anyone has one.

[UPDATE: Nevermind about Civ 2. The animations don't copy into a screen shot. Have tried 3 or 4 times now :mad: ]

Let me know what you guys got.

Isak
Apr 17, 2002, 12:47 PM
Nightstorm:
Isn't it possible to convert .flc's to pcx using Flicster? Then you could just convert the Tactical Nuke .flc's and voila .... Maybe some of the animation dudes know about this.

Kal-El:
What's your verdict on Patch 1.21f ?

NightStorm
Apr 17, 2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Isak
Nightstorm:
Isn't it possible to convert .flc's to pcx using Flicster? Then you could just convert the Tactical Nuke .flc's and voila .... Maybe some of the animation dudes know about this.

Hmmm...good point...I'm not really up on Flicster (have looked at it but never created a unit)...but you bring up a good point...will look at that...

pesoloco
Apr 17, 2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Isak
Nightstorm:
Isn't it possible to convert .flc's to pcx using Flicster? Then you could just convert the Tactical Nuke .flc's and voila .... Maybe some of the animation dudes know about this.

Kal-El:
What's your verdict on Patch 1.21f ?

you could use flicster to convert them but they will have a pink background. I dont know if this is what you wanted or if you need the background terrain graphics with it. If you did get the pink background, you could paste it onto the terrain with the pink color as transparent.

Kal-el
Apr 17, 2002, 01:20 PM
Ok, so the readme is out and there are a couple of things that mean good things for the DYP mod.
1. More Resources – “a blessing, a blessing from the lord”
2. Unit Hit Points
3. Lethal Bombardment
4. Multiple AI Strategies for Units
5. Fixed Bug that caused icons to disappear from techs on Science Advisor Screen (this one may actually turn out to be a bigger headache than a blessing)
6. All terrain as roads to work with water units - Not sure what this one means, but it looks interesting

Off the top of my head ;), here are the additional resources that can be expected in the next release:

Copper – Available with Mining - required for trireme, spearman, all archers
Timber – Available from Start - required for ancient boats
Flax – Available with Farming - requied for middle ages ships
Tungsten – Available with Super Conductor - required for Mobile Infantry

Coffee – Available with Crop Rotation
Dyes – Available with Ceremonial Burial
Incense – Available with Mysticism
Jade – Available with Masonry
Marble – Available with Masonry
Sheep – Available with Weaving
Tea – Available with Aristocracy

Pigs – Available with Domestication
Rice – Available with Farming
Corn – Available with Farming
Potato – Available with Farming
Crab – Available with Boat Building
Pheasant – Available from Start
Marlin – Available with Seafaring
Seal – Available from Start
Pheasant – Available from start
Silver – Available with Mining
Squid – Available with Magnetism

that's 22 new resources + the 3 that are already in the mod for a total of 25 new resources, for those of you out there who are counting ;)

Although, the additional luxuries may not work still so those might not go in the game. I will test that. If they don't sheep will move down to the bonus resources.

pesoloco
Apr 17, 2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
6. All terrain as roads to work with water units - Not sure what this one means, but it looks interesting


I checked out the readme earlier today. (Cant wait for the patch! I just hope the editor works with the game - an unfortunate side effect of patch 1.17)

What I think #6 means is that when a sea unit is marked with "all terrain as roads" it will multiply the move factor of the unit by the road move factor. So if the road factor is the default (3) and the unit's move factor is one, it would actually move three spaces.

Kal-el
Apr 17, 2002, 01:26 PM
the pink could be easily removed.

Isak, definitley a good point about flicster. :goodjob:

Kal-el
Apr 17, 2002, 01:29 PM
yes, but why? and since when did the water tiles cost more in movement points?

I guess this would allow blitz for the later ships, without giving them 10 attacks when they are on blockade.

pesoloco
Apr 17, 2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
yes, but why? and since when did the water tiles cost more in movement points?

I guess this would allow blitz for the later ships, without giving them 10 attacks when they are on blockade.

Personally I think it's pointless. If I want my ship to move three spaces, I give it a move factor of 3. I dont set it as 1 and check "All terrain as roads" because all water tiles (sea,coast, and ocean) all have 1 move cost anyway.

NightStorm
Apr 17, 2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by pesoloco
you could use flicster to convert them but they will have a pink background. I dont know if this is what you wanted or if you need the background terrain graphics with it. If you did get the pink background, you could paste it onto the terrain with the pink color as transparent.

Man, Flicster's export feature rocks! As far as the pink background, you can always pick one color from the terrain background and flood fill to get rid of the pink. Then, I use Paint Shop Pro to free-hand select only what I want in the terrain graphic. Copy from one, paste into another and this is the final result for atomic weapons test. Awesome huh! :goodjob:

Ed O'War
Apr 17, 2002, 05:27 PM
Kal-el:

I noticed you set Tungsten as available at Super Conductor, needed to build Mobile Infantry. If I'm not mistaken, tungsten was used during WWII for armor piercing tank shells, so maybe it should be available earlier. I haven't had a chance to try the mod yet, so I'm not sure what Mobile Infantry is...it sounds like a type of powered infantry unit, like from Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie). If it is a high tech unit, maybe it's resource should be uranium, for either 1) power source or 2) depleted uranium armor piercing rounds. But like I said, I haven't tried the mod yet, so what the heck do I know? Just some ideas, though. I look forward to trying it once you've had a chance to take advantage of the new patch. :)

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 06:14 AM
You guys keep talking about all the images from ToT and CtoP. What directories are they in, cause I can't seem to find them.

Kal-el
Apr 18, 2002, 09:21 AM
Ed,

You are correct in your assessment of the Mobile Infantry. Have you read the book. I was so excited to hear they were turning it into movie and then so disappointed with the results. The bugs were cool but the MI was certainly a let down. Yes the MI in the DYP is based on the MI of StarshipTrooper (the Book, not the movie)

I have no problem with making it available earlier, and as it stands MI require Uranium and Aluminum.

Nightstorm,

The images are not directly exportable. In fact as of this writing, I do not know of anyway, other than screen capture, to get the animations from these two games.

One more Day!
:D

Ed O'War
Apr 18, 2002, 09:28 AM
Kal-el:

Yes, I've read the book Starship Troopers, and I too was a little disappointed with the way the MI turned out in the movie.

I don't know if you have a Heavy Tank WWII type unit (like the Tiger) in the DYP mod, but maybe Tungsten can be a requirement for that to represent it's use in armor piercing ammo. Anyways, just a suggestion.

pesoloco
Apr 18, 2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Kal-el

Sheep – Available with Weaving


just a suggestion:
what about "Wool" instead of sheep, since this is a luxury available with weaving. The product is wool not the sheep itself.

I can't wait to have unlimited resources!!!! Tommorrow's the big day...

Kal-el
Apr 18, 2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by pesoloco


just a suggestion:
what about "Wool" instead of sheep, since this is a luxury available with weaving. The product is wool not the sheep itself.

I can't wait to have unlimited resources!!!! Tommorrow's the big day...

Good point. I initially had them as a bonus resource, so sheep would make sense there. If there is still a limit on luxury resources they will remain sheep and be bonus, if no luxury limit, it will be changed to wool. I finally have a good image. I try and avoid using the images from resources.pcx because they are a bit dull and look to much like the original Civ2 graphics, which i never liked. The resource.pcx images on the other hand look more like ToT images, 3d and vibrant.

Originally posted by Ed O'War


I don't know if you have a Heavy Tank WWII type unit (like the Tiger) in the DYP mod, but maybe Tungsten can be a requirement for that to represent it's use in armor piercing ammo. Anyways, just a suggestion.

the Mod doesn't have a Heavy Tank unit. I think with the advent of the HP system, the units will have to undergo an overhaul. It is possible that additional units may be added, now that there can be greater diversity. the new HP is a great addition to the game. yea!:D

=======================
Are there other units people think need to be in the mod? And it is not my intention to just put units in for the sake of putting units in (even if it may seem so at first glance:p ) So please, if you suggest a unit, include a reason for it needing to be in the mod.

Comen
Apr 18, 2002, 11:06 AM
I'm having some trouble building the port and shipyard.
The strange thing is that I can't build those two buildings in any of my cities om my main continent, but I can build both port and shipyard on a continent that I just colonized.

Harbors are not a problem, only ports and shipyards.

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 18, 2002, 11:33 AM
Yeah, I'm having this problem too, harbors I can build, but none of the others.

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Comen
I'm having some trouble building the port and shipyard.
The strange thing is that I can't build those two buildings in any of my cities om my main continent, but I can build both port and shipyard on a continent that I just colonized.

Harbors are not a problem, only ports and shipyards.

First off, Kal-el initially did not set these improvements as coastal improvements [did you fix that for v0.2 Kal-el?]

Second, unless you are trying to build them in a coastal city, you won't be able to build them. In other words, your city must be directly on the coast, not 1 or more tiles off the coast or you can't build any coastal improvements or wonders.

If you were trying to build them in a coastal city, then yep, it is one of Kal-el's bugs :p

Hope this clears things up.

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 12:00 PM
Well, now that the improvement and wonder images for the civilopedia are finished I am working on the buildings-large.pcx and buildings-small.pcx files, so that everything shows up correctly in the build queue.

If anyone has already done this, let me know so I don't duplicate something that is already done.

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Good point. I initially had them as a bonus resource, so sheep would make sense there. If there is still a limit on luxury resources they will remain sheep and be bonus, if no luxury limit, it will be changed to wool.

Not sure what everyone else thinks, but how about this idea. You can still call it wool instead of sheep. But, go ahead and make it a bonus, under the premise that it would earn money. Weavers could make wool, wool garments, etc. from the sheep and sell them at the market. Could add shields that way. Maybe?? :)

Kal-el
Apr 18, 2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Comen
I'm having some trouble building the port and shipyard.
The strange thing is that I can't build those two buildings in any of my cities om my main continent, but I can build both port and shipyard on a continent that I just colonized.

Harbors are not a problem, only ports and shipyards.

Comen,
Well now, that is interesting. So you say you can build them on another continent but not on your original continent.

How bout you EC, can you build them on a different continent.

I could have sworn that I went in and changed them to coastal in v.0.2 please check your bic files. I will do the same when I get home.

Nightstorm,

Regarding the wool issue. Luxury resources can and do provide tile bonuses. My only concern is that the patch may not fix the problem that when you link the ninth luxury to your empire the game crashes. Or at least it has for me. Maybe I was doing something wrong. I think when I tried to add more luxuries I hadn’t reordered them so that it went strategic, luxury bonus.

Comen
Apr 18, 2002, 01:29 PM
I have v.0.2, so that's not the problem.

Continent 1: Have coastal cities, can build harbors, but not ports or shipyards.

Continent 2: Can build harbors, ports and shipyards, have built a port already.

Isak
Apr 18, 2002, 02:15 PM
I have v.0.2, so that's not the problem.

Continent 1: Have coastal cities, can build harbors, but not ports or shipyards.

Continent 2: Can build harbors, ports and shipyards, have built a port already.

This sounds like a job for.......The Bug Crusher (DA-dada-DAAAA)

//Release Manager desperately trying to locate phone booth suitable for changing to undergarments, but none seem to be available//

Anyway Comen, you wouldn't happen to have a save game you could send me, would you? Just PM me for my email adress - I would like to look into this.

Isak
Apr 18, 2002, 03:24 PM
I think I found the problem - looks like it could be the combination of "must be near water" and "coastal installation" flags that doesn't work - and I guess if Coastal Installation is checked the "Must be near water" flag is not needed.

But to make sure, could anyone experiencing the error, go into the .bic file and check if port and harbor have both these flags checked in your version, and if they do, uncheck the "must be near water" flag and go back and see if this fixes the problem. (haven't got the time to actively test this myself at the moment, sorry)

And if anybody (Nightstorm, for example?) is actually able to build ports and harbors without any problems, don't hesitate to post.

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Isak
I think I found the problem - looks like it could be the combination of "must be near water" and "coastal installation" flags that doesn't work - and I guess if Coastal Installation is checked the "Must be near water" flag is not needed.

And if anybody (Nightstorm, for example?) is actually able to build ports and harbors without any problems, don't hesitate to post.

Step 1) Changed Port and Shipyard to no tech requirement (so I could build right away) & I took away the must be near flag
Step 2) New Game
Step 3) Established first city on coast
Step 4) Built Port
Step 5) Built Shipyard
Step 6) Quit game and changed everything back to normal (except map making)
Step 7) New Game
Step 8) Built Port
Step 9) Built Shipyard

Not sure why, but I could build them either way. Looking at a saved game would probably work better.

Isak
Apr 18, 2002, 05:27 PM
Ok, I'd probably need that saved game anyway then, Comen :)

But heck, now the patch is out (Check the Main Civfanatics page, In case you didn't know that Firaxis decided to release it a day earlier than announced), so who knows what will happen next time I try to load a saved game :confused:

EmprorCoopinius
Apr 18, 2002, 05:35 PM
Yeah. I think I'm gonna hold off on downloading it just to get a full game played on version 0.2.

NightStorm
Apr 18, 2002, 06:03 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and download it...since I haven't gotten to play v0.2 because the release manager has been pushing me to get all these graphics and stuff done *rubs pain ointment on the welts from the release managers whip*

:lol:

RobO
Apr 19, 2002, 01:16 AM
Well, I did get to play it yesterday. It worked quite well, but I have a couple of suggestions.

I set it up as pangea game (on Regent) and started out isolated on an island :crazyeye: - at least it allowed me to develop peacefully and explore the tech tree. I worried that I was way behind, but when I finally made contact (with longships) I was actually ahead in score. The AI obviously have problems expanding - which is good. So had I - getting enough food without having irrigation is a problem. I saved and stopped around 6-700 AD.

Anyway, my suggestions:

:scan: I think the entertainer should make one citizen happy, not two. It is enough IMO and more of a challenge and I suspect that the Governer has problems handling it correctly when they provide two smileys. I saw some strange behaviour in my cities.

:scan: Perhaps provide the Missionary with 1 point of defense. It should definitely not have two movement points, but it could be more different from the Settler than it is.

:scan: I hope it is possible to reorder the buildings in the build queue so they appear in a more natural order. It would be helpful.

:scan: Shouldn't pearls be restricted to costal squares? I got a pearl sea square before I had ships that could move there IIRC (or it might possibly have come with galleys). Anyway, it makes more sense to me to harvest pearls at lower depths.

:scan: I look forward to those Civilopedia entries. There's so much new stuff to digest. :cry:

Apart from the first one, these are minor points. Good job everybody, esp. Kal-el :goodjob:

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by RobO
:scan: I hope it is possible to reorder the buildings in the build queue so they appear in a more natural order. It would be helpful.

Yes, it would be helpful. However, to be able to do that Kal-el would either have to create a completely new .bic file, or somehow write down all the stats and such for the new buildings and go in and change everything to put it into some sort of order. This in itself would take days upon days, and I don't think he would want to do that. Me personally, I find it only a mild inconvenience...one that doesn't stop me from playing. :)

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 06:26 AM
*CURSE* *GRUMBLE*

If anyone hasn't considered this, please back-up the mod's .bic file before upgrading to the patch. They (Firaxis) install a new .bic file when they upgrade. :mad:

Guess that will be the last time I install something in the middle of the night when I'm half asleep.

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 06:27 AM
Oh yeah, btw. Hacked editor no longer works with new version of the .bic files. At least I can't get it to work.

According to Firaxis (on the bug report thread), this is a deliberate change on their part to knock out people adding units since they do not yet support that. What a bunch of losers! :mad:

RobO
Apr 19, 2002, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by RobO
:scan: I hope it is possible to reorder the buildings in the build queue so they appear in a more natural order. It would be helpful.
Originally posted by NightStorm
Yes, it would be helpful. However, to be able to do that Kal-el would either have to create a completely new .bic file, or somehow write down all the stats and such for the new buildings and go in and change everything to put it into some sort of order. This in itself would take days upon days, and I don't think he would want to do that. Me personally, I find it only a mild inconvenience...one that doesn't stop me from playing. :)

I feared as much. And I agree: it's nice to have, not necessary.

As for the editor, Iguess this means that updates based on 1.21 (other than resources) will have to wait until the hacked editor is updated. It appears that if we get a resource graphics file, then we can edit the bic ourselves and get them to show correctly on the map.

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by RobO
I feared as much. And I agree: it's nice to have, not necessary.

As for the editor, Iguess this means that updates based on 1.21 (other than resources) will have to wait until the hacked editor is updated. It appears that if we get a resource graphics file, then we can edit the bic ourselves and get them to show correctly on the map.

The hacked editor still works with Kal-el's .bic file. You just can't use the new editor with Kal-el's .bic file. At least I can't anyway. Further editing is still posible, but I am not sure what the results would be when loaded into the patched game. Many people have made this comment over on the bug report thread and they are begging Firaxis to release an unsupported version of the editor with everthing unlocked. Many other software giants have done this in the past with no problems whatsoever.

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 10:29 AM
OH NO!!!! Umm, Kal-el, you are gonna be one upset person. Once you patch the game, it completely changes around the science advisors. All of the arrows are shifted over big time. May want to take a look at it. Sorry. :eek:

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 10:47 AM
WHAT!!!!! :eek: :(

I have downloaded the patch but haven't installed it yet. What do you mean? are the tech boxes still small or did the patch convert them back to the original fatties?

this is not good news. not what I wanted to hear first thing in the morning. I think I am going to :vomit:

can you post a screen shot?

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by RobO
Well, I did get to play it yesterday. It worked quite well, but I have a couple of suggestions.

... The AI obviously have problems expanding - which is good. So had I - getting enough food without having irrigation is a problem.
First, let me say I am glad that you finally got to play the mod. Second, let me say that I am glad it worked well. ;)

Two things go into the slow AI expansion:1) Wheeled settlers, 2) less food. You will find that once you get a better govt food will be more plentiful, and when you discover irrigation (if you haven’t yet) you almost have too much food.

Which brings up a question, do people think there is too much time spent in despotism to start the game? I think it is historically accurate that you don’t get the higher forms of govt. til sometime between 500 BC and 1 AD, but it is fun?

I have been looking at the tech tree and I don’t know where I would switch them to, but it is something I have been wondering.


Originally posted by RobO
Anyway, my suggestions:

:scan: I think the entertainer should make one citizen happy, not two. It is enough IMO and more of a challenge and I suspect that the Governer has problems handling it correctly when they provide two smileys. I saw some strange behaviour in my cities.
I completely agree. There are plenty of new improvements that will aid in the fight to maintain happiness, plus now that there are rate caps for most govts it is easy to put some of that surplus tax into luxuries. They will be changed to 1.

That brings up another question, do people want more citizens? Here are my thoughts, open for discussion:
Sage with Philosophy = Science +1
Tax Collector with Currency = Tax +1
Professor with Education = Science +2
Banker with Economics = Tax +2
Scientist with Scientific Method = Science +3
IRS with E-Commerce? (should probably come earlier) = Tax +3

Originally posted by RobO
:scan: Perhaps provide the Missionary with 1 point of defense. It should definitely not have two movement points, but it could be more different from the Settler than it is.
Actually what I did was removed the wheeled flag and returned their movement to 1. not being wheeled is a big advantage over the regular wheeled settler.
Originally posted by RobO
:scan: I hope it is possible to reorder the buildings in the build queue so they appear in a more natural order. It would be helpful.
I have lobbied Gramphos to add this to the CMT. I plan to eventually reorder the units using the CMT as well. Maybe if more people went over to the CMT thread in the utilities forum and asked him to make it possible to reorder the buildings he would feel this was something that was really in demand and feel more inclined to add this feature.
Originally posted by RobO
:scan: Shouldn't pearls be restricted to costal squares? I got a pearl sea square before I had ships that could move there IIRC (or it might possibly have come with galleys). Anyway, it makes more sense to me to harvest pearls at lower depths.
They should indeed. Very good point. Pearls should be restricted to coastal tiles.
Originally posted by RobO
:scan: I look forward to those Civilopedia entries. There's so much new stuff to digest. :cry:
GIDustin is working on that but he is having some computer difficulties at the moment.
Originally posted by RobO
Apart from the first one, these are minor points. Good job everybody, esp. Kal-el :goodjob:
And thank you for all your input and enthusiasm. :D Your suggestions have and will continue to help make this a better mod.

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 12:22 PM
Issues still on the table:
1) Improvement and Unit Costs – are they too low? How much more should they be?
2) Tech Costs – same Question.
3) Additional Resource – Besides the resources I listed above, what other resources would you like to see in the mod?
Before anybody says it, I am not putting hemp in the mod. I would love to put some form of narcotic into the game as a luxury resource, but only if you could give it negative effects as well as positive. If for example you could give it a plus to happiness but a minus to production for the whole nation and not just for the city that has it in its borders. Since this is not an option drugs will not be in the mod. I also understand that hemp is a valuable resource, but flax has been used more for sails and ropes and clothing than hemp has, hence Flax is in the game and hemp is not.
4) Federal Republic Icon What do people think about changing the symbol for federal republic from the eagle that it is now, to the EU's flag of 12 gold stars on the blue background? I would probably change the stars from gold to silver. This symbol closely mirrors the original flag of the US which had 13 white stars on a blue field, and would thereby be representative of the two largest federal systems in the world? (at least I think they are the two largest)
5) Additional Civs – it sounds like the patch fixes some of the problems with adding additional civs, at least that’s what I am hoping “fixed bug with foreign advisor screen” means. Why do they have to be so cryptic? Anyway, which civs would people like to see eventually placed in the mod?
I am thinking:
-Spanish
-Vikings
-Celts
-Incans
-Mayans
-Carthaginians
-Nubians
-Koreans
-Mongols
-Ottomans – the Empire not the furniture

On a similar note,
- I would like to change the name of the French to the Franks, and change their leader from Joan of Arc, who doesn’t fit in with the rest of the Civs leaders, to Charlemagne, the first great Frankish/French king.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

I would like to have discussions on all three (five sir) five of these topics.

thanks :D

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
WHAT!!!!! :eek: :(

I have downloaded the patch but haven't installed it yet. What do you mean? are the tech boxes still small or did the patch convert them back to the original fatties?

this is not good news. not what I wanted to hear first thing in the morning. I think I am going to :vomit:

can you post a screen shot?

Here is first screen shot - Ancient Era...

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 12:36 PM
Second One - Middle Era

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 12:37 PM
Third one - Industrial Era

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 12:38 PM
And finally, Modern Times...Like I said, all box positions shifted...

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 12:49 PM
ok, well first thing, the techboxes are the original and not the ones made by elucidus which are smaller. but it does look like they are misaligned as well.

try it with the tech boxes that came with the mod and see what that does.

thanks

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 12:56 PM
Maybe instead of Vikings they could be called Norse and include all the Scandinavian countries, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland …

Ah, Finland

Finland Finland Finland
the country where I want to be
bunting hiking or camping
or watching tv
Finland Finland Finland
is the country for me

yes so near to Russia
so far from japan
quite a long way from cairo
lots of miles from Vietnam

Finland Finland Finland
the country where I want to be
eating breakfast or dinner
or snack lunch in the mall
Finland Finland Finland
Finland has it all

Your so sadly neglected
and often ignored
a poor second to Belgium
when going abroad

Finland Finland Finland
the country where I want to be
with your mountains so lofty
your treetops so tall
Finland Finland Finland
Finland has it all

Finland Finland Finland
the country where I want to be
with your mountains so lofty
your treetops so tall
Finland Finland Finland
Finland has it all
Finland has it all

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 01:12 PM
here are elucidus' tech boxes for anyone who overwrote them (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=210487)

RobO
Apr 19, 2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
Issues still on the table:
1) Improvement and Unit Costs – are they too low? How much more should they be?
I haven't played enough to comment on this. There's a lot to build. Perhaps the Forge is a bit powerful, it it is also expensive.

2) Tech Costs – same Question.
It felt OK to me, but then again I played on Regent. There's a lot to research and it took me a long time to pass into the second era. Oh btw - it seemed like I had to research it all to get out of that era. I probably just took it in an inappropriate order.

3) Additional Resource – Besides the resources I listed above, what other resources would you like to see in the mod?
Be careful with adding a lot of luxury resources, they could imbalance the game. They certainly have to be balanced with the improvement(s) that use them to provide happiness, e.g. requiring three resources instead of two to make a jump in happiness.

4) Federal Republic Icon
The flag with 12 stars sounds good to me.
5) Additional Civs –
I am thinking:
-Spanish
-Vikings
-Celts
-Incans
-Mayans
-Carthaginians
-Nubians
-Koreans
-Mongols
-Ottomans – the Empire not the furniture

Definitely Vikings, not Norse.
Danes ofc (just kidding :p ) though fimp did do one. He might not feel good about copying it, though (check the thread - it also gives a bit of our history as a world power).

- I would like to change the name of the French to the Franks, and change their leader from Joan of Arc, who doesn’t fit in with the rest of the Civs leaders, to Charlemagne, the first great Frankish/French king.

No idea, really, I don't know enough about that part of French history.

On the extra scientists and taxpeople from the other posts, I'm a bit concerned about the ability of the game to handle more than one scientist type and of the ability of the governer to deal with these. Other than that, it's a good idea.

And another idea: In order to use the HP ability systematically without overusing it, you could consider adding an extra HP at each shift in era. Thus, all units researched in the third era gets 2 extra HP. Just a thought.

Btw, what's your relation to Finland?

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
ok, well first thing, the techboxes are the original and not the ones made by elucidus which are smaller. but it does look like they are misaligned as well.

try it with the tech boxes that came with the mod and see what that does.

Ok, I did...and now see what they look like :p

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 01:53 PM
.

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 01:54 PM
..

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 01:59 PM
...

NightStorm
Apr 19, 2002, 02:05 PM
Those were with ecludius' techboxes. They are more in line, kind of, but there are alot of partial boxes. *shrug* :aargh3:

(Firaxis) :spank: (Us Mod-Type Peoples)

Kal-el
Apr 19, 2002, 02:56 PM
that is most disheartening. :(

Nightstorm,

it looks like you are not playing v.0.2. You industrial science is missing the city planning tech and your entertainers are still attached to the Drama tech. Not that that should effect the advisor screen.

I'll tell you what it looks like to me. It looks like the game is just using the wrong sized boxes for the techs. i.e. when it should be using a large box it is using the small box. I will take a look it may be as simple as reordering the tech boxes in the tech box image file.

RobO,

no relation, just like the song, I have a Danish connection myself, Viking blood runs through the Jensen veins. I am also Chinese, Irish, Scottish, German, Belgian and French.

Actually that whole post about the Norse name change was just a segue into yet another Monty Python bit.

those guys are some funny bastards.

No there not,

yes they are,

no there not,

they are!