Even though its my first post in the forums, im an regular civ player, and have had vanilla and PTW for a bit more than 2 years, so i´ve decided to come up with a new SG with a nice twist to it:D

So here´s the Religiously Wonderful variant (a fusion between Passive 5CC, and other variants i´ve found while surfing through the threads:crazyeye: ):

We can´t have more than 5 cities at the end of a turn, accepting or conquering cities is allowed, as long as we trade them off before we end the turn

We are a peaceful bunch(:rolleyes: ), so that means no declaring war (going to war with a nation that has declared war on us is ok, as long as we havent provoked them), and the only acceptable means of winning are Culture, Space Race, and Diplomatic


We must have at least 2 wonder from each era, gaining a wonder by conquering a city is accepted, as long as it doesnt violate the previous rules


Sistine Chapel is an obligatory wonder, and counts as one of the 2 for that era


We must have either a temple or cathedral in every city


Cannot accept slaves, so we must give back all conquered workers by the end of the turn


Our civ must have the Religious trait


.......and of course most important of all, our reputation is extremely vital in this variant, so please no abuses of any kind:cool:





Settings:
Game: I think PTW, but Vanilla is acceptable too
Civ: Open for debate as well
Roster: Five players, counting myself
Land: Random
Climate: Randon
Temperature: Random
Water: Random
Age: Random
Enemies: I was thinking 9 more random civs
Barbarians: Random
Difficulty: I haven´t played this variant myself yet, so i would think either Warlord or Regent, although i guess i would be willing to try out Monarch as well


As soon as the roster is done, ill post four starts an we´ll vote for one of them...................I´ll play the first 20 turns, and the next person can take it next....





So the rosters are open as of............NOW!:lol: :lol:

n911, sounds like a *great* game, i'd love to join EXCEPT that i have conquests...... i don't want to do the uninstall/reinstall game

You don't have to do anything, if you have Conquests you have also both PTW and Vanilla. :D

This is not a signup.

Hmm. Sounds interesting...
I'm in. :D BTW, include a link to this thread from your ad on the SG Registry Thread.

I'd like to tentatively sign up for this if you'll have me. It'll also be my first SG as I've only recently (3 months) had a comp able to load this gam 've owned for 3 years or so :blush: I play comfortably on Monarch, about to try my first Emporer and been reading these threads almost more than I been playing lately. anyway id like to say "I'm in"

On a semi relatd note, is there a place I can test my posting of pics and links just to make sure I get it? Don't see that I'd have an issue with it but i'd like to be sure I'm able to before committing to something reliant on it.

Cyllus, welcome to CFC!!! [party] :band: :bday: toobad about those com problems you mentioned... :badcomp: :old:

IF you go with Vanillia I be happy to sign up. difficulty wont matter to me.
Otherwise I will be lurking.
Might I also suggest India as your civ choice.
Culture or SS is the way to go I not sure if diplo. is possible for a 5CC varriant (I could be wrong).
Also a suggestion to go for the Colossus for one of your AA choices if possible.

Alright, im glad to see that this thread has gotten some support overnight (im in madrid, GMT +1, I think:crazyeye: ). We´ll go Vanilla so JJJSpider can play to. The roster so far is:
ñ
choxorn
cyllus
JJJSpider
(open)


so we need one more player so that i´ll start posting starts. Also to those that have already signed up, please post your comments on what civ u want to play as, and difficulty level as well, since we havent decided yet:
ñ: Will go with whatever, although i dont think any civ with the militaristic trait (I repeat, the Religious trait is obligatory), will do any good since we won´t be doing much war, if any at all:mischief:
choxorn: waiting
cyllus: waiting
JJJSpider: India
(open)



also, to players and would-be players of this SG, post any comments u might have about World Age, Temperature, Climate, etc.... and if u wanna change any setting just say so.
Advice from vet players is very encouraged:D :D

I agree with JJJSpider that India would be a good civ for this game. Difficulty: Would probably prefer Regent (Regent because AI Warlord will never get to Modern Times, and as 5CC, neither will we without trading!), but would take Monarch or Warlord if others wanted to. As for age, temp, climate- I don't really care all that much. One Question: As for two wonders from each age. What if we somehow manage to win by 20k Culture before Modern Times?

One Question: As for two wonders from each age. What if we somehow manage to win by 20k Culture before Modern Times?

well then its a Cultural victory, and we´ve won:D

Very long time no SG. I'll join. India is OK, Spain I've never played so cool with them, otherwise no prefs. Peaceful is nice since I need work on my trading. Normally play Emp/DG.
Regarding settings just roll the dice and go random is my vote (I'm eager to get going :D)

Alright so the roster is now closed with Daghdha´s sign-up. Chosen Civ: India
settings:Random
Vanilla version, here are the four starts. Remenber 20 turns, 24 h to post a ¨got it¨, and 48 h to play.

my vote goes for either 1 or 2. I like the goody hut, game, forests, and river in 1, but 2 has good things too, and its right next to coast, which will make us get early contact with overseas nations.
BTW, it´s standard size, and there are 7 more civs.

Before we start playing i wanna discuss a few things, like what tech strategy are we gonna use? and city planning

Since we are peaceful, we shouldn´t linger on techs based for military purposes, we should spend more time on techs with commercial and cultural value, same thing with buildings. This game implies a single, vital rule: Less units, more buildings.
Cultural is a good way to win, and more in this game where we have to buid 2 wonders every era, and since we are gonna have only 5 cities, we might as well build every single building with cultural value, to get as many points as possible. Im not saying we should downright leave military, of course we are gonna have to build barracks, spears, swords, etc.... im just sayin that it will pretty much play a second role in this variant. Trading is a key point too, so we are gonna need to have as much gold as possible, so lets try not to run on deficit, or at least not too long:crazyeye: :lol:

As for city planning, since we can only have 5 cities, we really need think hard about where we want our cities to be, since each one built is one less to the limit. I suggest building very near resources that become obsolete in future eras (iron, salpeter, coal, etc.....), so that IF we need to later, we can dispose of those cities and build new ones near newfound resources.
I also think its better not to reach or city limit before we get to Middle Ages, since we might make a mistake in building our cities to fast, and loose some nice spots near gold, cows, BG, etc...

Might i suggest counciling with the rest of the roster before building a new city???

I agree with you on 1 or 2. 2 questions: 1. What difficulty level? 2. you still haven't answered my question about wonders and winning.

Starts: 2 is bad for a 5cc, others are ok. I think 3 has incense in the fog.

Shouldn't we be allowed to win by wonders? Never tried, but it is very peaceful. Don't know how many is required :confused:
Cult would be one city 20K since we won't be able to reach 100K with 5cc.
For research I suggest we give the slingshot a try, i.e. Writing-->CoL-->Philo = Republic as free tech.
What is random? If everything is random, then cool. If only map settings, then I would like to know:
What opponents (we can hit f10 and find out, but for tech planning on this stage it would be useful to know)
Aggression level on opponents
Status on barbs
SGL's (on/off)

Difficulty level: Monarch, since i´ve thought it´ll be comfortable and yet pose a challenge

Haven´t really understood ur question:confused: :blush: , but i guess that if we win by 20k before Modern Times, then there´s no need to go on with the game. Was that ur question?:crazyeye: :crazyeye:

Haven´t really understood ur question , but i guess that if we win by 20k before Modern Times, then there´s no need to go on with the game. Was that ur question?
It won't happen unless we give up other VC's completely and I think you answered the question in post #10.

All settings random. Start 3 also has another BG below the settler, but i stick with 1. I agree with the slingshot idea, so we shoot straight to Republic.

I think you answered the question in post #10.

Thought i did........but he insisted:lol:

Sorry, missed that post. :blush: Daghda, this is Vanilla, not C3C, so there's no Philosophy Free tech and no wonder victory.

I'd choose 1 as the starting position.
Is there even a way to find out what lvl Barbarians we got? It'll make a difference on what units we do produce early on. Didn't get a chance to post on a civ, if going Cultural I'd have gone Babylon for all culture buildings cheaper.
Also with Vanilla we can win cultural with only a 20,000K city and not 100,000 req. for the civ?
This being 5CC I'd like to put our heads together before building new cities as well, moreso so I don't get a public thrashing than to put my 2 cents in :lol:

Sorry, missed that post. :blush: Daghda, this is Vanilla, not C3C, so there's no Philosophy Free tech and no wonder victory.
Oh....:blush: . Goes to show that it's been a while since I played vanilla. This will be fun :clap:
I think we should go writing full speed anyways

Well, we're obviously at a consensus for 1. Cyllus, there were already 3 votes to India, so they already had won and there wasn't much point in waiting for your vote. ;) Sorry.

All right!
Start One:
Move the settler East to the river and possible coast.
We really don't want to waste shields on Aquaducts if we don't have to and our cities must be large.
Worker South to Chop and irrgate the deer. Warr->Warr-> Getting the chop to happen for a settler or a temple some MM in there.
IF we are going 20K I think it will be on the 2nd city and starting on The Collussus. Thus really needs to be on the Coast.
City Placement is important so you want to have enough space to work all the tiles in the future.
Warriors are out to scout for furture sites and make contacts. We won't need to worry about Barbarian for a while yet.
we should have the 4 cites as our core. THe FIfth we dont really need build everthing if we plan to abandon in the future. I don't think that will be necessary.
Remember we will need to whip (rush) temple and libary ASAP
Writing as the tech for trading purposes and off to Republic as quick as a bunny
Our 2nd AA wonder any thoughts??

Sounds like a decent plan JJJ. Explain the hurry w temples. I don't get that. Normally I don't build temples at all unless they are needed for happiness reasons.
First phase = grow strong in all areas (not only culture)
Second = specialize
Third = Win........:D

When going for Victory culture. Culture Building Double the points after 1000Years. The Faster you get them up the more points the faster to doubling and faster to a culture Victory. This is especialy important in the cutlure city.
Therefore in the Early going Whipping or cashing Rushing them is much more benfical then the pop loss or the cash. Saving many many turn later waiting for victory.
This is also another reason to go for Lit ASAP.

But your right I almost never build them otherwise.

When going for Victory culture. Yeah but (correct me if I'm an ignorant c3c player) we will not reach a 100K cultural victory with only 5 cities. Therefore a temple is only important in the 20K city given that we're going for a 20K win of course. If we do I'm in on whipping asap naturally.
Wonders: As long as it don't trigger a despotic GA I'm in on any cult wonder. Colossus is IMHO a given being the best overall AA wonder there is. If we have a 20K city I would build the Gardens there.

There are no Commercial/Religious AA wonders (in vanilla, at least) :) However, Lighthouse is commercial and Pyramids and Oracle are Religious. However, we might not need lighthouse that much because we don't know if it's Pangaea, Continents, or Archipelago. And the Oracle is far from the world's most helpful wonder. ;)

I may also be ignorant about this but for cultural victories (at least the ones I've gotten) don't we need both the city and civ to reach thier respective goals? Only reaching it with the city, or the civ, doesn't trigger the victory.

On a technical note... either I'm not pressing the right buttons to printscreen or I just can't find where they're going to... any help on this? I can upload the saves no prob. so it's not a big issue really if i don't post pics.

No, you only need one or the other not both. There should be a "Print screen" button. On my keyboard, it is a bit above "Insert" and shares a key with "SysRq".

For Culture Wins.
20K one city reaching 20K (win)
100K Your Civ at 100K AND Double the cutlure points of all civs. (i.e. Yours 100K closest civ has 60K No Vicotry. The magic number is now 120K).

Print Screen sends it to a buffer. Where it will need to be pasted into a program like Paint or any other program. From there edited and saved.

n, Pre-game discussion appears to be over- I think you can start the game now. ;)
Roster:
n911: Up (sorry there's not the ~ thingy, but I don't know how to make one...)
choxorn: On deck
cyllus
JJJspider
Daghdha

n has not been online since his last post on this thread. Should I start this up? :cool:

You make one by going below the escape button and pressing the Shift key on the ` key, the one below the Tab key.

:~)

I see no reason why not Chox although it is Christmas weekend, could be keeping people busy. I'm anxious to get this rolling as well. Did n post a start .sav yet though?

Thanks for pointing that out, Cyllus. Obviously, I can't play if I don't have the save. :blush: :lol: :crazyeye: D'arty, I mean I don't know how combine the symbol with an n.

Hmm. Maybe I could roll a few saves and we could see if we like any of them more than start #1. If so, I'll play it. If not, Then we'll have ot wait.

We should Wait on N911. It is his game after all.

Yeah your right JJJ. It's been 5 days now? We're soon approaching the "lost interest" point though. Give it a week (From n's last post) and let Chox do his thing I say.
Different note, what happens if a town "flips" to us and we reject it, does the town stay in existance or raze itself? This is a loose 5cc though so we can expect the flip and sell off it's goods then abandon it before end of turn I suppose.

Well I'm here and waiting...

A week from n's last post is 2 days from now. That's a bit short, but we are losing patience, so that's when I'll do it, unless n posts here by then and tells us why there has been a delay.

Time is now officially up. N has not been on the forums for a few minutes more than exactly one week. I will now roll starts- after I finish eating my lunch. ;)

Here they are. The Settings I chose:

World Settings:
Size: Standard
Land Mass, Water, Age, Temp, Climate, Barbs: Random

Setup:
Civ: India (Of course)
Difficulty: Monarch
Civs: 7 Random AI (Sorry, N. I know you wanted 9, but we didn't establish that. :( )
Rules: Default, Minus Respawn AI.

And The Starts. Note that there is a BG under the Settler in Start 2.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Start1.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Start2.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Start3.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Start4.JPG

My Vote goes to Start 2 and Start 4. What do you guys think?

So sorry to do this to you guys, but reading up on other SGs I came across one played "Vanilla" and noticed a person using c3c played his/her turns and it was left incompatible with the rest of the players. Well needless to say I play c3c. I assumed one with c3c could play any type game including vanilla but apparently not without unistalling some components and whatnot, which I'm not willing to do atm. So as anxious as I am for an SG I'll just wait for a regular game to start up. I'll be watching for sure. :newyear:

Do you mean Civ 3: Complete? If so, then you can play all 3 versions of civ. Ask someone else about it, I don't really know the details.

Nevermind, I found the details in another SG thread about how to get into civ 3 if you have civ complete:

With C3 complete you have vanilla and PTW as well. You'll be able to load it from here.

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Civilization III Complete

Look for [civ3]
Hope this helps. :high5:

2 and 4 seems good enough.

Cool, I'll check that out when I get home Chox.

Sweet, that does work (or at least bring up a Civ III screen that isn't the normal one :confused:
As for the starts, of 2 and 4 I'd go with 4 for it's position on the map.

Good point, Cyllus. Yeah, 4 is slightly better due to location- should I start us up now?

May as well go Choxx, it's been 8 or 9 days now? I'm itchin' to get going.

Okay, but My Mom has declared that she gets the computer (she needs it for work) and I might not be able to get to it for a little while. :mad:

Hmm. Idea has sprung. Should I move Settler 1 tile SW so Capital will be coastal?

Sounds like the right thing to do, would free up that grasslad you're standing on instead of having 2 tundra squares

Good Point. I'll send the worker to the forest square to explore the coastline, then evaluate it (see if there are any whales/fish), and make my decision. Now now, though, as it is too late in my time zone. :(

Hmm. Idea has sprung. Should I move Settler 1 tile SW so Capital will be coastal?
Way to go. We have spices NE that will be in range after expansion. Have worker start road in place, then go irrigate/road cow so we get some bread on the forest shields we have. Then we can road/mine the bg and cross the river to road the grassland forest. If we're lucky we might have traded for pottery by then and can make a useful chop. Settling 1 SW also ensures we get that hill in range. If there's a fishy out there that only can be reached by settling on the hill or 1 tile S we'll have to accept the loss because we shouldn't settle there anyway.

How do you know we have Spices NE?

I think he means the Bonus Grass tile. :hmm:
Playing Now...

Not Much Really Happened in these turns. But, it is the early AA- Not Much Really does happen!

Summary:
-Got Pottery
-Made a couple of Science mistakes
-Got A couple of Warriors and a Temple
-Met Zulu on Final Turn

And All of What Happened:

Turn 0 (4000 BC):
-I consider moving Settler onto coast. To help make my decision, I decide to move worker 1 SW onto forest. Misclick and send worker 1 W. Worker Sees:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Worker_View.JPG
-Move Settler 1 SW.

Turn 1 (3950 BC):
-Found Delhi: Starts Warrior
-Send Worker to BG tile 1E of Delhi

IBT:
-Our Sages Need Direction. I direct them to research Pottery at 100%, due in 18.

Turn 2 (3900 BC):
-Worker gets to BG tile.

Turn 3 (3850 BC):
-Worker Starts Road.

Turn 4-Turn 5 (3800 BC-3750 BC):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Worker finishes road (Pottery sped up 4 turns- Now due in 10)
-Delhi: Warrior->Warrior

Turn 6 (3700 BC):
-Worker Starts Mine.
-Warrior follows road onto hill 2 SE of Delhi. Sees Coast.

Turn 7-Turn 10 (3650 BC-3500 BC):
:sleep: (Warrior Explores)

IBT:
-Delhi Grows to Size 2 and Gets Culture Expansion
-Delhi: Warrior->Temple (Will probably :whipped: next turn)

Turn 11 (3450 BC):
-Go to Preferences Menu and Turn on "Always Wait at End of Turn", "Ask for Build Orders After Unit Construction", and "Show Wonder Initiation Pop-up".

IBT:
-Worker Finishes mine

Turn 12 (3400 BC):
-Worker moves North to cow. Decide not to whip due to the fact that it would only gain 6 turns- not really worth it IMO.

Turn 13 (3350 BC):
-Worker Roads Cow.

Turn 14 (3300 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-We get Pottery: Set Research to Masonry, due in 18.

Turn 15 (3250 BC):
-Exploring Warrior discovers several Gems.

IBT:
-Worker Finishes Road.

Turn 16 (3200 BC):
-Warrior finds GH.
-Worker Irrigates Cow.

Turn 17 (3150 BC):
zzz

Turn 18 (3100 BC):
-Warrior Pops Hut- Gets Maps

IBT:
-Delhi: Temple->Settler

Turn 19 (3050 BC):
-Notice Light Blue Border that was revealed by Map from Hut. Send Warrior North to reach border.

IBT:
-Our Treasury is Running Dangerously Low (Stupid Domestic Advisor...) (10g, -1gpt)
-Yellow Scout Runs Next to Warrior.
-Worker Finishes Irrigation.

Turn 20 (3000 BC):
-Contact Scout: It's the Zulu. :rolleyes:
-Can Trade Alphabet for WC and 10 gold or BW and 10 gold. Will leave trades to next Player.
-Zulu already has a second city.
-Move Worker: Preparing to Connect Spices

End Turn Notes:
-Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie1.JPG
-I think those 4 gem mountains would Make for a nice city.
-Delhi will grow next turn, which means it will riot the turn after, so this must be fixed, as must our small financial problems. A Taxman might solve both.
-If you do Trade with the Zulu, I reccomend taking Bronze Working. You could also wait a turn, contact the LB civ, and see if trading comm with them to the Zulu (If they haven't met yet) lets you get both BW and WC, or get WC from the LB civ.
-And Here's the Save: ReligiousSG_3000_BC.SAV (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_3000_BC.SAV)

Looks like a nice area, chance at every resource with all those different terrain. With the Zulu so close, probably just above that light blue civ, we better ge or cties down quickly bfore we're totally boxed in. 2 luxuries also :eek: This is my "Got It" can play tonight maybe ten turns before I'm off to New Years party. Definately finish in the AM though.

Preturn: Move citizen to spices for Settler in 6, still grow in 1. Hit Enter

(1) 2950B.C.
Start road to Spices.
Move warriors.

(2) 2900 B.B.
Move warriors.
Blue civ (China I find out IBT) has Gems

IBT China Contacts us, offers WC for Pottery, I renegotiate, he’ll give Bronze/WC/10g for Alpha which I accept.

(3) 2850 B.C.
Check Zulu, we have Alpha over him he has nothing to offer.
Give Deli a tax collector Settler still in 1.
Move warriors

(4) 2800 B.C.
Dehli {Settler to Spearman to Fortify} We don’t know the Barbarian level do we?
Contemplate where to put Settler… Decide with fingers crossed that I am not very, very wrong J

(5) 2750 B.C.
Things move around
Worker still roading

(6) 2710 B.C.
Looks like Jungle all near China
Things move around more

(7) 2670 B.C.
Worker fineshes road moves to spices
Things move around more

Going to pause here and post the pic. I can settle here to get 4 foodplains on expansion but no gems until expansion either.
The city will reach size 14 max either way it looks like. I’d opt to move and get the gems in range before expansion so no oether civ claims them.
BTW Do I take 20 or 10 turns?


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Persia_5cc_pic1.JPG

We're going to get expansion fast anyway, probably, so that's a good location.
According to N, we play 20 turns, so let's go with that. If the game starts bogging down, we can slow it down a little.

PS
Where did you get that mine graphic?

PPS
:newyear:

OK Then, hit enter

(8) 2630 B.C.
Start worker building road on spices.
Found Bombay {Temple [in 30]} I don’t want to lose out on those Gems.
Warriors move.

(9) 2590 B.C.
Warriors move.
MM - Dehli, Spearman in 1 with growth, Masonry in 1.

(10) 2550 B.C.
Discover Masonry, start The Wheel (If China moves in we may need to move them out early)
Dehli {Spearman [fortifies] to Collossus}
Warriors move
Up Masonry and Alpha on Zulu and up Pottery on China. They have nothing to offer.

(11) 2510 B.C.
Warriors move.

(12) 2470 B.C.
Warriors move.

(13) 2430 B.C.
Warriors move, find Zulu’s territory just north of China L so china will more than likely expand south.
No techs to trade

(14) 2390 B.C.
Road to spices complete, move worker to start road to Bombay, then to Gems
Collossus in 36.
BTW getting Collossus may trigger Golden age, this being only Monarch I’m comfortable wasting it this early but we can change this to Granary during hand offs without losing shields.

(15) 2350 B.C.
North Warrior explores, other watching for Barbs. (This may seem anal but I don’t want Barbs getting their hands on us.
China has IW, won’t take Pottery and gold for it.

(16) 2310 B.C.
North Warrior goes North, other finds a barb War.
Zulu has IW now, will take Alpha and Pottery for IW and 10g and China still won’t budge. I make the deal. We have Iron!
MM Dehli for an extra gold while it grows.
Zulu has IW now, will take Alpha and Pottery for IW and 10g and China still won’t budge. I make the deal. We have Iron!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Persie_5cc_Iron_Pic.JPG

IBT Barb attacks Chinese Archer and loses.

(17) 2270 B.C.
Move North Warrior North, other toward Barb camp

IBT Chinese archer moves toward Barb camp, Barbs attack and make him Elite

(18) 2230 B.C.
North Warrior North, other back toward Bombay (Chinese archer will take barb camp before I can reach it.
Bombay grows Temple still in 20.

IBT Zulu asks us to move… of course I will

(19) 2190 B.C.
North Warrior moves North out of Zululand, Other back toward barb camp. (Chinese archer is Elite but only has 3 health so he’s healing up, I should have realized he would do that…)

(20) 2150 B.C.
North Warrior North, other toward barb camp still not in sight but I know it’s out there.
Worker will finish road in 1 turn.
Dehli’s cultural boundaries expand.
China has Iron BTW :scared: so he’ll have swords.
The Map
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Persie_5cc_pic_3.JPG
That’s it, Wheel in 3. Collossus in 21 but Delhi is growing, should be 5 or 6 when it’s finish in next turn set. This can change to Granary in 1 with no shield loss but I’d like to get it, the extra cash for almost 3 Ages won’t hurt with only 5 cities. Turns out leaving Bombay there will get us Iron on 2 expansions instead of 3 so good call Chox!

Possible next cities. The Red and Blue would be great. The 2 Greens can be done later, even if China claims them.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Persie_5cc_city_placement.JPG

Of course if we get Horses :please: we'll be in great shape to take what land we want quickly.

The save.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_2150_BC.SAV

There's a barb camp Northwestish of our War and the Chinese Archer that should have only one barb left.. quick 25g. It lookes like our whole land mass is a narrow Continent (you can see coast on both sides). Probably only 1 or 2 more civs up north of Zulu. Looks prety good early.

The mine graphic is Snoopy's graphic pack. Didn't even know i downloaded it for vanilla lol.

A little bird just reminded me of our variances. One of which is we cannot declare war or taunt the AI into declaring war. Had I remembered this I'd have built settler>settler>settler in my turnset :blush: As it is now we get Collossus in 6 or 7 turns and hopefully can get some settlers out in time.

OK looks like Bombay is our Wonder city 20K city.
I not thrill we started Collossus so early we needed another city first.

Blue Dot I am not entirely trilled with but I just dont see a better location.
Red Dot needs to move One East. There plenty of food tiles all ready there we will need the Hill later for the shields.
Green Dots: I think I like to move it 2 north of the southern one and one SW of the upper one. Let us works all the Gems hills in the future plus gives us access to some grassland instead of all plains.

I think the Red dot is the priority.
DOn't worry about starting War being 5cites someone will demand something. just say no and instant war. Worry about finishing them.

Do we have an order?
If not Can I go next?
Any comments about my city placement before I start?

Heres the roster as it was originally set. As for city placement your points make lots of sense to me. No problems here.

ñ - MIA
choxorn
cyllus - JustPlayed
JJJSpider - Up
Dhagda - On Deck

Pre-turn:
Switch Delhi to Granary No shield Loss. Really need another city before we start the Colossus.
Whip Bombay for Temple.
We barely built one lone spear why are we worried about Horses, Should be research writing. Plus it a cheap tech AI goes for that we can trade for. Too many beakers in now to worry about it. Up Sci to 100% Might as well finish it quicker.

Turn 1 (2110BC):
Delhi Granary -> Spear Working the Growth Cycle
Bombay: Temple -> Granary (prebuild right now.)
Send Work Towards Bombay. And Closer Warrior towards Bombay for MP duty.

Turn 2 (2070BC):
Sci down to 80% Wheel still in 1.

Turn 3 (2030BC):
Wheel in Sci. set 100 on writing in 22 Turns.
We also have Horses inside Delhi
Zulu all ready have it. China has no cash and can’t buy it.

IBT:
Barb attacks our Warrior on mountain and looses but red lined.

Turn 4 (1990BC):
Delhi Spear -> Settler

Turn 5 (1950BC):
ZZZ worker working and Warrior exploring

Turn 6 (1910BC):
Sci down to 70% with no Loss. In 27 Turns

Turn 7 (1870BC):
Meet the Japan We are up Alpha and Iron. Trade Alpha for 10 GP. They also don’t know anyone.

Turn 8 (1830BC):
Delhi Settler -> Spear
Writing drops to 34 turns

IBT:
China Establish Tsing on our Green Spot.

Turn 9 (1790BC):
Sell China the Wheel for 25 GP
Sci back to 100% Writing in 19 now.

Turn 10 (1750BC):

Turn 11 (1725BC):

Turn 12 (1700BC):
Delhi Spear -> Worker

Turn 13 (1675BC):

Turn 14 (1650BC):
China and Zulu Learn Both HBR and Writing
No Deals.
However Writing Drops to 10 turns

Turn 15 (1625BC):

Turn 16 (1600BC):
Establish Madras on red Dot:
Writing in 5

Turn 17 (1575BC):
Delhi Spear -> Settler

Turn 18 (1550BC):

Turn 19 (1525BC):

Turn 20 (1500BC):

Rnd Turn Screen:
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/4890/n911endzi6.jpg

The Save: 145370

Writing due in 1 Turn I would suggest Lit. for the library and GLB
Try to keep Gold low for demands that are sure to come.
Delhi once it finishes its settler can start on the Colossus now. Suggest the Blue Dot Now.
Remember to Whip the Temple in Madras when it is size two. Then make a lot of workers there
Bombay is a small pre-build for either a Library or any other Wonder. I would suggest the oracle (cheap and good Culture) or the GLB (for Culture)

ibt-- writing in
(1) 1475
Delhi settler-->Colossus
worker to Delhi to improve our 20K city
Change Madras to worker, we need at least 1 per city
Start lit full speed, due in 30
Mao and Shaka has writing, Japs have zip
ibt--
(2) 1450
settler moves towards blue dot
worker starts hookin up gems
ibt--
japs start pyramids
(3) 1425
worker starts mine at Delhi grassland
mm Delhi for an extra goldpiece
zulu has myst
ibt--
(4) 1400
sci up to 80, lit in 20 breaking even and 7 g's in the kitty
ibt--
(5) 1375
decide to sell writing to Japan for 26 g's which is all he has
sci up to 100%, lit in 16 at -3 per turn
ibt--
Madras worker-->temple
Zulus starts pyramids
(6) 1350
not much
ibt--
(7) 1325
Found Cape Gandhi on blue spot -->warrior
ibt--
(8) 1300
decide to change Bomb to settler due in 1 turn. We can use a 5:th city NE of Delhi. I'd like to chop a rax there and build up some military. If Bombay keeps growing plus having a granny we will have happiness issues there. In the future (when we have rep and can mine those hills) it will be a monster city.
ibt--
Bomb finish settler --> granny
(9) 1275
Zzz
ibt--
(10) 1250
our scouting warrior finds a barbie camp
Chinese settler is heading for the spot NE of Delhi but we will beat him
Mao learnt Map Making
ibt--
(11) 1225
Our brave warrior is defeated by a redlined barb, no scout out
ibt--
(12) 1200
sci down to 90%, lit in 7
ibt--
(13) 1175
Mao and Shake both have myst/MM/HBR up on us
ibt--
(14) 1150
Mao has no goods to trade yet so decide to wait with roading to him
sci down to 80 breaking even, 10 g's and lit in 5
ibt--
(15) 1125
found Goa in front of grumpy chinamen -->warrior
lit in 3
Tokugawa knows HBR
ibt--
horses are hooked, start mining them
(16) 1100
not much
ibt--
Cape Gandhi warrior-->worker
Mao starts colossus
(17) 1075
ibt--
Lit in -->Philo (gambling for a free tech)
Madras temple-->lib
(18) 1050
trade lit to mao for MM+1 g
trade lit to shaka for myst
trade lit to tokugawa for HBR+5 g's
philo in 7
whip a temple in Madras
ibt--
Madras temple -->library
(19) 1025
start road to build trade route to Mao
ibt--
(20) 1000
start roading twd Goa

Summary: We're well in the race. We can sell myst to Japs for world map + 9 g's so we can speed up the race for philo (I suggest we do). We're weak to everyone and should consider building some military before sending a galley E to the red border. Colossus is in in 6 and I'm sure we'll get it. I regret not pulling one more worker out of Bomb, we still can but will waste some 4 shields. Oh, and change Madras to worker.



http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/dagisfroken/civ/gandhi1000.jpg

Nice sets guys. About researching the Wheel :blush: I'm far from a pro... Seems you barely pulled 5 cities out with my blunder not building settlers also.
Is Tsingtoa (I think that's the one) the goal for our 5th city in time? With Horses and Iron we should be set to defend ourselves long enough to establish a solid Civ. Looking good.

The Goal in any 20K game for all other cities to support it in any fashion necessary. AND Culture Building take precedence over all other builds in the 20K city.
In any 5CC game your military will be very weak in the beginning and you must cave in to demands. We will not have a strong military for a long time. So military takes a back sit until you get your cities running properly.
So what this game really becomes is a 4CC with a wonder city.
Suggestion:
1) 10 turns from here on out.

2) Bombay switch to a library and rushed (whipped ASAP). Then Start on a Wonder.
With trading around Lit I not sure GLB is possible now. Only if Bombay is strong and working any and all shield tiles (even those mined hills even in Depotism). We might have a shot. I think the Oracle might be a better way to go but depends if any one else started it.

We need two Wonders for each age. Later ages are easier with pre-builds but in the AA it a little harder with all the wonder cascades.

I'd like us to give space a shot (or at least a thought) so I'm not 100% in on a 20K decided already. It might be the way to go and if so we must focus on that from now on, but consider the terrain and the monster producers we have coming up. Colossus is a good wonder in any case.
A somewhat weak military is fine, but not too weak. Caving in for demands is not a guarantee for peace.

Roster

n -MIA?
Choxorn -up (Not sure he's gong to be able to play, or post, somethings up)
Cyllus - on deck
JJJSpider - warming up
Dhagda - just played

I am fine doing a Space Race if that is the plan.
But with a 20K city you must plan right from the begining this VC is not one you can switch to mid way in a game.
Either way the descision on our VC condition is determined in the begining and we have clear goal set and a plan set in motion.

I am fine doing a Space Race if that is the plan.
But with a 20K city you must plan right from the begining this VC is not one you can switch to mid way in a game.
Either way the descision on our VC condition is determined in the begining and we have clear goal set and a plan set in motion.
Like I said, we should decide soon. What is determined in the beginning is that the only acceptable means of winning are Culture, Space Race, and Diplomatic

Sorry for the delay, short on time, got it. Won't be able to play immeadiately though, so expect a wait. :(

Cool, glad to see your back :cooool:

I am fine doing a Space Race if that is the plan.
But with a 20K city you must plan right from the begining this VC is not one you can switch to mid way in a game.
Looks like an interesting game. If you'll permit a lurker comment, I've played a few 5CC games going for space and one of the problems that you might find for launching you ship is the lack of resources. No problem if you can trade for them but if no AI has a spare source, you won't be able to fight for them (something that I had to do in several games). This means that it helps to have an alternative VC that you can reach.

I often played for 20K as my fallback win position, sometimes regreting it as I reached 20K before I could finish my ship. The two goals are not incompatable though as some culture builds such as Colossus help your finances/research and others will help with happiness issues to enable most of your cash to fund research and/or tech brokering.

You might still want to consider diplo as your fallback but obviously it means that you must build the UN as you won't appear in the vote otherwise. A Diplo win would be easy for you if you can build the UN; your peaceful nature and the need for you to trade frequently should give you a high attitude rating with most AIs.

Good luck!

Thanks for lurking advice. Conclusion: a combination of possible VC's are ok to pursue, but 20K cannot be a backup. Having 20K as primary VC does not disqualify the others. So let's feed Delhi with cult and see how things develop.

Then Delhi is our wonder city. We'll see if we can get to the Late-Industrial Age before winning. If so, use a Palace as a prebuild for the UN. Of course, we do have to use a city besides Delhi if we want to do this, but it won't matter much. Even if we can't win by UN, we can at least not lose.

Delhi is not a good wonder city a lot of poor shields tiles and only one good food tile. For the larger wonders it will take longer time then say would Bombay.

Vote: What is our wonder city?
I vote Delhi as it already has 1 wonder (or will in 6 turns), and we are going to pepper (and salt :lol:) it with culture.

This is only Monarch, once the AI takes Sun Tzu and Loe's I'd bet we'd have our pick from then on of the high culture Wonders, even in Dehli... That said I'd vote for Bombay hands down for it's pure sbt potential in the future.

I'm not the one analysing exact spt's outcome but I agree Bomb looks like the bigger shielder in the future. I'll go with that as 20K center. Colossus couldn't be built there anyway so no harm done.
I suggest we rename to Cult Bomb Aye

Okay, Bombay it is, I'll start it up on the GLB (we will fall behind in tech in a 5CC game). If I am pretty sure I can get it, I'll set sci down, then let the GLB give us techs. :D

Okay, now I'm [pissed] Whenever I try to load the save, this happens:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/error.JPG

Oh yeah, I got the same error when I tried to look at the sav. It loaded intoCivassist but wouldn't let me play.

Cyllus, see if it loads in PTW or C3C. That might be the answer.

Hopefully there's nothing wrong with my sending. Here we go again.


THE SAVE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/56330/religious1000_BC.SAV)

It opens with Conquests, not vanilla.

Sooooo......I have c3c and can play this, but when I'm done no one with vanilla can open the save. We have a situation here. If it comes down to it I can resign. Surely some vanilla player can fill my space....

Why can't you just use vanilla? ;)

You can load vanilla on C3C aparently and play it but not vise versa. You just need to replay your turns on vanilla.
This is what I gather from posts I've seen anyway.

Aha, well then I'll have to reclaim my vanilla disc that I gave a friend of mine :lol: ....or buy a new one....but I won't, so I will step down.

That puts you up then Chox, and we may want to advertise. I think we're down to 3 now.

Technically 4, since n never dropped out- he just vanished. Anyway, got it. Not sure if playing will happen though since I have been lazy in school for the past month or so (I don't have a very long attention span) and thus have descended to having low grades, so my mom is (of course) blaming it on playing computer games too much (which I admit, I do). :( But I'll try.
EDIT: Oh, and BTW, There is going to be snow tonight (probably) :snowgrin: and I might lose power (people not too far from me have already), so beware a delay!

Nothing. It snowed- a freakin inch!!! :mad: :gripe: Stupid weather!!! :aargh:

Okay, now it's snowing again. I hate weather forcasters that don't predict perfectly :rolleyes: :lol:

Okay, done. Unable to post ATM though.

Okay, now I can. A few things first:

-I only played 10 turns as I am pressed for time.
-There is NOT a city on the Blue dot, it is a few tiles away. I will explain later.

Pre-Turn (1500 BC):
-Move fortified Warrior in Bombay west as barb patrol and China Settler patrol.

IBT:
-Get Writing, set research to Lit, due in 23 with +1 gpt.
-The Foriegn Advisor suggests we establish embassies. I laugh. We have 6 gold!! :lol:
-Delhi: Settler->The Collosus

Turn 1 (1475 BC):
-Agree with Daghda on Workers- switch Madras to worker.
-Decide to move Settler to 2S, 1 SE of the Blue dot, as it puts Iron in our territory. Plus, the spoiler from Daghda's set showed a Chinese Settler heading there on the Final Turn- don't want that.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 2-Turn 3 (1450-1425 BC):
:sleep:

IBT:
-Japs are building the Pyramids.

Turn 4 (1400 BC):
-Settler in Position.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 5 (1375 BC):
-Found Bangalore.
-Should have done this before- switch Bombay to a Settler.

IBT:
-Madras: Worker->Temple (for now, at least)

Turn 6 (1350 BC):
-Madras worker moves, will start connecting Madras to Bombay.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 7 (1325 BC):
-Exploring warrior sees a Yayoi (barb) camp 2 tiles away.
-Japan is even with us on tech, China up Myst, Zulu up Myst, HBR.

IBT:
-A Yayoi Horseman appears next to Madras- and the worker. :sad:

Turn 8 (1300 BC):
-Ponder over Madras. The Combat Calculator says the spear in Madras has a 75% chance of beating the Horse if it attacks, so I attack. The Spearman loses. (0-1) :mad: Stupid RNG!!!!!!!!!!!
-Switch Madras to Archer in case more barbs come its way.

IBT:
-Barb Horse Attacks Madras- steals 2 gold :lol:
-Bombay: Settler->Granary

Turn 9 (1275 BC):
-Exact revenge on the Yayoi by killing their warrior and taking their camp and 25 gold. :evil: (1-1) 2 gold for 25 gold is a fair trade right? :lol:

IBT:
-I get a Palace expansion- choose to build landscaping. :cool:

Turn 10 (1250 BC):
zzz

Stopping here, as I explained earlier.

Endturn Stuff:
-Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie2.JPG
-Notes:
-Send the Settler to somewhere around where Daghda founded Goa (refer to screenshpt on last page).
-Iron will be online next turn, worker in gem monuntain working to get us gems.
-The Workers should improve land and connect Madras and Bangalore.
-Beware China and the Zulu, but especiallly China!
-Forgive me for not renaming the Save "Religious SG..."
-Speaking of which, here's the save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Gandhi_of_the_Indians_1250_BC.SAV)

Whoa, OK. With Bangalore there China or Zulu are going to get those foodplains and build a nice big city on our borders. As it stands here I'd like to place our 5th city where Dhagda placed Cape Gahndi then wait for China to attack (you know they're going to) and take Tsingtoa and disband Bangalore. Use Bangalore now to just build military while we wait for China to do it's thing.

So I have a settler where, waiting in Bombay? Or I don't have a settler yet. If we hammer out a plan I can play tonight. I am confused why you didn't take the FP/Gems site, just to get the Iron in our borders? Once we wip a Library into Bombay it will expand again in 17 turns or so, well before we're ready tos tart building swords.

I don't change terrain graphics in any way (It confuses me) so Flood Plains look exactly like desert to me. My noobishness disallows me to tell the difference. So I didn't see much reason to put a city there for gems, since we already have a couple in our border. Also, check Daghda's end turn shot. That Chinese settler looks menacing, especially considering if it settles there, it would snag the iron! This gave me another reason to build Bangalore. However, after I read your post, I definately thought building a Cape Gandhi city instead of a Goa city would be a good idea. The Settler is in a forest tile 3 squares south of Bombay (I moved it there- yes, I am an idiot)

Alrighty then. Will play today more than likely, otherwise 100% tomorrow morning. I don't remember if we got Lit already, I assume the Granary build in Bombay is a prebuild for Library or even GLib, although I'll probably whip Library and get right on GLib there.

"Got It"

Uon frter review, Cultural vicory is not the way we are going to win this one. Our top 3 cities (Dehli, Bombay, and Madras) won't be turning out good enough gpt to gt early wondes, which are cucial for cultural for obvious reasons. Before Industrial they'll only be 20spt*ish* cities and witout trading techs we'll fall behind a little when we shouldn't at all. Space Race we can win so long as someone else doesn't get domintion as we can't go after someone (Peaceful) if they're getting close to it. As for diplo, if we own the UN we are in the voting (unless for vanilla it's different?) After all that blabbing here I tak my turns.

Upon frther review my keyboard is oviously on the fritz... :mad:

Preturn: Lit in 13, change Bangalore to Barracks to build our tiny military, Madras to Temple, ENTER

IBT Road to Iron complete

(1) 1225 B.C.
Send Settler toward his home, Worker to continue road to Bangalore, Warrior toward Madras to Fortify, Way North Warrior will be exploring during my turnset, will tell you if he finds anything juicy.

IBT China wants WM and 39g for WM, I decline

(2) Nothing

IBT nothing

(3) 1150 B.C.
Worker to mine hill near Bombay, nothing

IBT nothing

(4) 1125 B.C.
Worker to road to new city coming next turn, nothing

IBT Chinese settler pairs move around

(5) 1100 B.C.
Found West Sieeede > Worker (we need em, due in 10, grow in 10)

IBT Chess pieces move around

(6) 1075 B.C.
Nothing

IBT Nothing

(7) 1050 B.C.
Gems online, worker to Madras to irrigate FP.

IBT Nothing

(8) 1025 B.C.
Worker to complete road to West Sieeede. China and Zulu up Myst, HB, and MM, Japan up only HB

IBT Zulu wants maps, I decline

(9) 1000 B.C.
Nothing

IBT Nothing

975 B.C. – Last Turn, nothing happening, Lit in 1, adjusted slider back already.
Pretty Uneventful. Strange how slow the AI is expanding, there’s still a big hole on our east just waiting for China to plop down in. All builds are subject to change of course. Bombay is on Granary to switch to Library and whip if you like. Colossus in 7.

The Save

Uon frter review, Cultural vicory is not the way we are going to win this one. Our top 3 cities (Dehli, Bombay, and Madras) won't be turning out good enough gpt to gt early wondes, which are cucial for cultural for obvious reasons.


Hello again!

The most effective way to gain a 20K is actually by gaining leaders rather than building everything by hand. On C3C this is with SGLs and so research is important. With vanilla it will be (perversely) by fighting a lot to get Great Leaders in battle. I guess in the variant you are playing that may be difficult but I've done it a couple of times before without declaring war on anyone. That wasn't a 5CC though...;)

You are probably right but don't discount 20K yet. The GLib will help either way and if you get attacked you will need to decide whether to let a few of them gang up on you to help in your leader search or create alliances to maintain good relations in looking towards the UN victory. In the meantime I think your options are still open. Good luck.

Cyllus, you played 11 turns... It seems that turn 2 was two turns, not one... :hmm:
Knowing the militaristic civs we share the continent with (yes, all three have Mil trait... :eek:), someone is going to demand something soon. We can let them have it for now, but as soon as we have a military... :mischief:

Yeah I though I missed a date in there somewhere :lol: . It'll happen :D

Uh, JJJ, you're up. Did you forget? If so, roster:

Cyllus: Just Played
JJJSpider: UP
Daghda: Appears to have dropped out, unless he can get civ3 vanilla disk.
N911: Vanished, where did he go?
choxorn: On Deck

OK I got it!
I will play in next day or so.

Pre-turn
Whip Temple in Madras.
Switch Bangalore to a sword.

Turn 1 (950BC):
Lit in Set to Phil in 7
Madras Temple -> worker
Bangalore Sword -> Spear
Establish Embassy China

Turn 2 (925BC):

Turn 3 (900BC):

Turn 4 (875BC):

Turn 5 (850BC):
West Side Worker -> Temple

Turn 6 (825BC):
Delhi Colossus -> Worker OUR GA has begun

Turn 7 (800BC):
Philo IN China and Zulu have it all ready Can only get Mystism and 3gp from Japan.
Delhi worker -> Library
Whip Library at Bombay
Trade for COL from China for Lit and 7gpt. Trade CoL to Zulu for Cash and HBR. Trade Lit to Zulu for remaining cash.
Start in on Republic in 26 Turns

Turn 8 (775BC):
Bomb Library -> GLB
Bang spear -> Worker
Trade Lit and Col for MM from Japan. They didn’t have this last turn.

IBT:
Japan demanded TM Caved!

Turn 9 (750BC):

IBT: China Start GLB

Turn 10 (730BC):
ZZZ

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1275/n911tf7.jpg

I have 4 worker in the area around Bomaby they all should be improving Bombay before we go to other cities. The other three have atleast one worker improving tiles there except for Banglore which we plan to abandon.

THE SAVE: 146001

Okay how did that GA Start? We haven't built a Commercial wonder! :mad:
Oh, and Got it.

Thought I warned of Colossus popping us a GA, isn't it commercial? Grants commercial benefits. Also we need a second wonder for this age. Working Bombay to it's capacity we should be able to plow a wonder through in no time. Remember only Monarch. :king:

BTW do we have to cave?

The Wonder page here says Collosus not Commercial. And no, we don't have to cave, but a TM isn't worth much if we only have 5 cities :lol:

The editor says Colossus is commercial.

The Wonder page here says Collosus not Commercial.

The editor says Colossus is commercial.

Yes. Unfortunately the civilopedia entry is incorrect for vanilla and all the guides (or at least the ones I've seen) go by this. They fixed the entry for PtW but I've no idea why it wasn't picked up in one of the patches.

Just to clarify, the Colossus is EXP, REL and COM.

Yes, Firaxis should patch the civ3 games to fix the gaping civilopedia errors like that and the RR one (And eliminate the damn won't read disc bug)! :mad:

Okay, Done. No time to post, though. However, Few quick notes:

-Got contact with Rome- they started on an island just off the coast :D
-Through careful bargaining, We now have Rome's WM, China's WM, and Embassies with Japan and the Zulu.
-Diplo situation: Miraculously, we are even in tech with the rest of the known world. :eek: All civs are polite, except China, who is Gracious. I vote we try for Diplo victory.

-Cyllus, you're up, but you're also up in MadV10 and Aabra-01, so I don't mind if you need a skip :)

Da Set:

Pre-Turn (730 BC):
-Damn, I can't get anyone's WM.

IBT:
-Zulu Start the GLB.

Turn 1-Turn 4 (710-650 BC):
:sleep: Well, some stuff happened, but nothing worth noting.

IBT:
-Delhi: Library->Rax (we need at least 1)
-Second gem hooked up. We can trade them with Japan/Zulu when we're connected. China already has gems.

Turn 5 (630 BC):
-Reduce Sci from 70% to 60%. Before: -1 gpt, Rep in 13 After: +4 gpt, Rep in 16.
-The Zulu and Chinese have Math and contact with the Romans! They won't trade either of them, though.

IBT:
-Horses Connected.

Turn 6 (610 BC):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Bangalore: Spear->Temple

Turn 7 (590 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-A Red (Roman) spear/settler pair appears out of the fog.

Turn 8 (570 BC):
-Contact the Romans, who take me to their leader, Caeser Salad (:lol:). Mr. Salad gives us his WM in return for our TM and Literature. We now see most of our continent and all of his island. Nice island! He has, as far as I can tell, the most cities. I also notice that Beijing,China is the only known city in the world that has a harbor! Lazy AI's!! :crazyeye:
-We can now trade resources with China, thanks to a worker of ours. I decide to trade our source of Horses (we can do without them for 20 turns- we are currently busy building wonders :lol:) for Math, their WM, and 94 gold. China is now Gracious (woohoo!).
-With the gold I got from China, I plant embassies in Kyoto, Japan:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Kyoto.JPG
And Zimbabwe, Zululand (Not enough cash left to get one with Rome):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Zimbabwe.JPG
Cost a total of 102 gold, 20 gold left in treasury.

IBT:
-Roman Settler founds Brundisium.
-Delhi: Rax->Galley

Turn 9 (550 BC):
-Move Warrior in Bombay to Delhi for upgrade to sword. For some reason, the luxes are not affecting Bombay's happiness (even though the lux part of city screen says it is :mad:), so I have to put scientist there for the moment.
-Will stop now to put us on even turn number.


-End Turn Stuff:
-Screenies:
-Here's one I took by pasting together two different screenies for a (sloppy) map of the continent (spoilered because it is freakin huge!)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Continent.JPG
-Here's one of the Roman Island:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Rome.JPG
-We are doing pretty well on relations, as I explained in previous post.
-You want to know what all of the AI's we have met have in common? They all have the Militaristic trait! :lol: I bet you anything that 2 of the 3 remaining civs are the Aztecs and Germans. :D
-Number of cities of each civ:
Rome: 14
China: 11
Zulu: 9
Japan: 7
India: 5 (Duh)
And..... (music)
Da Save! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_550_BC.SAV)

I see we are not going to get GLB. Where ever China is on There wonder project.
With the info provide by the embassies
Zulu will finish the Pyramids, and Japan switched to GLB and will complete before us.

So what to do about our 2nd wonder???? thoughts suggestions.??
Would it be better to switch now to the Oracle?
What is the next Tech with a Wonder we have a shot at in 20 turns?

Got It

As for a wonder, I'll have to look harder. can't think of one with my brain as I rarely build em especially in the AAs.
I am up in the Aabra one so I'll do that one now and this one tomorrow night should be np. gonna look at the save though and comment on what woner we might go for.

The GA is skewing our production, off the bat I set lux slider up one to get Bombay growing. Worst comes to worst we may have to get Monarchy for HG if we don't get Oracle. Will know more as I play it tomorrow.

JJJ, lets not switch yet. For all we know, Japs might cascade to Oracle! :lol: Then Again, China is also building Pyramids so we can't know what is going to happen.
@Cyllus:
List of AA wonders (Pre-C3C) (I have also included the effect, for reference):
-The Pyramids (Granary on every city on continent)
-The Oracle (Doubles the effect of temples)
-The Collosus (Notes: Coastal Only, Already built in Delhi) (+1 commerce in squares that already have one)
-The Great Library (Note: Currently being built in Bombay) (Gives Free tech if two known civs already have it)
-The Great Lighthouse (Note: Coastal) (+1 movement to all ships, Galleys can pass safely through Sea tiles)
-The Hanging Gardens (Note: We don't know how to build) (3 happy in built city, 1 happy in all other cities- thank you, Cyllus!)
-The Great Wall (Note: We don't know how to build) (Doubles the effect of walls; +100% attack vs. Barbarians)

Hope this helps.

EDIT: w00t! 1,500th post!!!

HG IIRC is 2 or 3 happy in host city an 1 happy in other cities, not sure if anything cancels it. Either way we'll have to hope we land one of em in Bombay then we can focus on our proceeding strat into MA. Should be a couple uneventful turnsets.

HG IIRC is 2 or 3 happy in host city an 1 happy in other cities, not sure if anything cancels it.
Steam power IIRC.

Yes, the Hanging Gardens expire with Steam. Other Expirations: Pyramids are never-expiring, Oracle goes with Theology, The Collosus expires with Flight, GLB expires with Education, GLH goes with Magnetism, and the Great Wall goes with Metallurgy. On a side-Note: In C3C, The ToA (Temple of Artemis) expires with Education, the SoZ (Statue of Zeus) expires with Metallurgy, and the Knight Templar goes with Steam Power.

Preturn: Change Dehli to worker (want to get Bombay rolling asap), Bangalore to galley (we plan to abandon this city so I see no need for temple, maybe only barracks to produce units for our civ) Up lux slider to get all of Bombay working. Woke worker mining Bangalore to move to mine for West Side. Enter

IBT nothing

1 – 550 B.C. – Dehli Worker>Sword, West Side Temple>Library. 5 turns left on GA. Warrior into Bombay, lower lux back to zero. Move workers to build more mines/roads in Bombay. Start north warrior and try to get him home without ticking off China

IBT nothing

2 – 510 B.C. – start road/mine near Bombay, other things just move.

IBT Zulu politely orders us out, we oblige.

3 – 490 B.C. – Bombay grows, Lux back to 10. nothing

IBT nothing

4 – 470 B.C. – Dehli Sword>Sword, send him to Madras. Workers work.

IBT nothing

5 – 450 B.C. – West Side boundaries grow. Nothing.

IBT nothing

6 – 430 B.C. – Dehli Sword>Wealth (to get Rep in 4) nothing

IBT nothing

7 – 410 B.C. – GA ends, Glib goes from 32 to 58 turns :eek:

IBT China boots us politely.

8 – 390 B.C. – Repulic in > Construction in 13 at +1g. workers doing their thing, north warrior takes his step into china attempting to reach homeland. India Revolts!

IBT nothing

9 – 370 B.C. – India is now Republic, Glib now in 35, would get Oracle in 23… watch that. Workers start new tasks n stuff.

IBT nothing

10 – 350 B.C. – Lux sliders adjusted accordingly, Construction in 15 at +6g. also switched Dehli to another worker done in 1, can change that if you like.

The picture is pretty much the same.
The save.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_350BC_cyllus.SAV

Why are we abandoning Bangalore? there isn't really anywhere else to put a city.

Because it's not in a prosperous location, all dry. That new Roman city would even be better. I assume it won't be too long before China just declares on us and it'd be nice to have TsingTao for ourselves as a fifth city. Keep in mind though, that I a usally wrong :mischief:

Well then, let's keep it for now, and abandon later if we get another city that's better.

Your right better to not just waste it. We may also need to fast track to Monarchy jst to have another GW to cascade to if the world gets our 3 first. We d still have the Palace to use as a prebuild in Bombay.

Pre-turn:
Not Much to do.

Turn 1 (330BC):
Delhi Worker -> Harbor
Since Republic is really worthless I sell to Rome and Zulu for all the cash they have.
Speed up Research at deficit.

IBT:
Cascade away Persian build the Pyramids, France Build the GLB, China Build the Oracle.

Turn 2 (310BC):
Bombay to the Palace maybe we can get GW or HG.

IBT:
Zulu Completes the Great Wall.
China and Zulu start GLH

Turn 3 (290BC):
Lux up to 20% Prevent Bombay and Madras from Rioting.

IBT: Palace Expands

Turn 4 (270BC):
Disband Reg Warrior in Madras.
Library one turn early and prevent some overage.

Turn 5 (250BC):

Turn 6 (230BC):
Send Suicide Galley Out.

Turn 7 (210BC):
Bangalore Cat -> Cat (THIS IS THE BEST BANGALORE SHOULD MAKE OR MAYBE A GALLEY)
Galley Sinks

Turn 8 (190BC):

Turn 9 (170BC):
Construction in 1
Delhi Harbor –> Sword
Madras Library -> Barracks
Best Deal I can swing for Poly is to Japan for 6gpt and WM and our gold.
I do it to Start on Monarchy next turn.

Turn 10 (150BCAD):
Lux down to 10% Specialist in Bombay and Madras
Construction in Set to Monarchy in 11
BOMBAY Palace in 19
I MM Bombay so it won’t complete the palace before Monarchy is done and max emphasis on gold.
Speed up Sci when we can to Switch and switch to the HG and MM for shields.

I would also start Disbanding Reg Troops and replacing when applicable with vets as the time comes. To keep unit support down.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7601/n9115ly.jpg

THE SAVE146288

Got it. Can't play now, will try later.
[offtopic] Now we know that Persia and France are in the game. I guess not every civ here is Millitaristic! :lol:

Done. Can't post right now though. JJJ, just to tell you- Babylon has the Oracle, not China. France has the GLB, Persia has the Pyramids, Zulu has the GW, and we have the Collosus. As of the end of my set, China has the GLH (They finished it in Beijing on Turn 7), and the HG is ours in 4 turns.

P.S.
Can you guys say, "Middle Ages"? Yeah, We are in the MA now! :D

Da Set:

Pre-Turn (150 BC):
-We need 2 AA wonders. We already have the Collosus, so we just need the GLH or the HG. Although the rules say we can capture them, I don't feel confident we can. We need the HG!!

IBT:
zzz

Turn 1 (130 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Delhi: Sword->(suicide) Galley

Turn 2 (110 BC):
zzz

IBT:
D'oh! Madras riots. Change taxdude to clown.

Turn 3 (90 BC):
-Our lone Warrior is in Delhi, awaiting upgrade.

IBT:
-China requests a TM trade. No thanks. Question: Why is China Polite and not Gracious?
-Bangalore: Cat-> (suicide) Galley
-Madras' borders expand.

Turn 4 (70 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Delhi: Galley->Sword

Turn 5 (50 BC):
-MM Bangalore to keep out of deficit.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 6 (30 BC):
-Send Galley into unsafe waters.

IBT:
-Curse the RNG! The Galley Sunk. :mad:

Turn 7 (10 BC):
-Gems outside WS are connected.

IBT:
-Delhi: Sword-> (sucide) Galley
-China Builds the GLH in Beijing. Awaiting Cascade...

Turn 8 (10 AD):
-Gulp, if cascade causes HG to be built, we only have 1 AA wonder!
-Increase Sci to 60% to speed Monarchy up (obviously forgetting, due to being a n00b, that the Palace costs the same as the Hanging Gardens). Now in 2 turns instead of 3.

IBT:
-Whew, no cascade. HG has not been built. Yet.
-Madras: Rax->Sword
-WS (West Sieeede): Library->Sword.
-Treasury going down.

Turn 9 (30 AD):
-Reduce Sci back to 50%, Monarchy still in 1.
-Strangely, nobody has even bothered to Start HG. Then I realize: Nobody has Monarchy! :lol:

IBT:
-We get Monarchy, set research to Currency.
-Advisor asks revolt. I answer no!
-Treasury, blah blah blah.

Turn 10 (50 AD):
-Switch Bombay to the HG. After selective MM, Reduce it from 9 turns to 4 turns. On the downside, our deficit goes from -2 to -5.
-Need Cash. Trade Monarchy to Rome for Currency, 38 gold, and WM.
-We have entered the MA! Yes, I know, variant sez we need 2 wonders from each age. However, it didn't say we needed to build that wonder in that age, did it?
-Set research to Engineering for bridges. Next player can change.

Endturn stuff:
-You can upgrade that warrior in Delhi if you want, but it would make us go to 0 gold with deficit next turn, so you'd have to decrease sci.
-Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie3.JPG
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG__50AD.SAV)

ok got it. Shall we take the top end of the tech tree? We are peaceful and Sistene Chapel is required. It's not stated in the variance but I do believe we should not build Military wonders, or at least not count them toward our 2 wonder per age requirement.

I suggest the top half of the tree as well. That is where the Culture Techs are.
Building a pre-build for sistine as soon as we can.
Starting a Miltary wonder builds helps with getting the cascade right for the AI in normal 20K games but being 5 CC makes it difficult to tie up 2 city for Wonders.
I would suggest disbanding that reg Warrior since it only upgrades to a reg sword and it save a little on Miltary support.
Being there is only one Sci Civ and we don't know them helps a little.
I would also stop building swords. all builds should be horses to upgrade if we need too. (exception if someone delcare War one us)
We should also consider disbanding all reg troops when the time is right and replacements are ready.

Preturn, we’re spending a lot to keep our people happy and we need military to protect ourselves. We should look at prebuilds for Cathedrals when Mono comes in so we can work everything. Change West Sieeede to Aqueduct. Change Madras to Horseman. Move a swordsman toward Bombay. Change science to Mono, still in 15. ENTER

IBT See Rome has ROP with China

1 – 70 A.D. – Dehli Galley->Horse, Bombay grows – assign scientist, cuts one turn off Mono, HG in 2. Send Galley toward Northern Rome, we’re not having luck to the West.

IBT Japan starts HG

2 – 90 A.D. – China is in MAs, move workers. Give Bombay another scientist, HG in 1. Move units to mountaintops just to see more.

IBT nothing

3 – 110 A.D. – Bombay HG->Courthouse, Bombay at 1spt with 3 corrupt.
AA Wonders accomplished
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Religious_HG_Pic.JPG

IBT nothing

4 – 130 A.D. – Bangalore Galley->Cat, Madras Horse->Courthouse, Dehli horse->Horse, move warrior toward West Side to disband. Running Mono in 11 at –9, lowe lux slider, mm Madras and Dehli now Mono in 10 at +0.

IBT nothing

5 – 150 A.D. – Madras grows, Mono in 8 at +1 with MMing. China knows Mono AND the French, Persians, and Babylonians. He beat us to them. Won’t trade any contacts as we’ve only 18g. Zulu trades us contact with French, 14g (all he has), and WM for Monarchy France has Mono, that’s it. Won’t sell other contacts yet. Change Bombay to Palace for SC prebuild.
French Territory, it’s not an island, yellow border to it’s north.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Religious_France_pic.JPG

IBT this happens
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Religious_china_war_Rome.JPG
Looks like the ROP ran out and china told them to get out because there were Romans running around his territory into the fog the turn before. This isn’t a war for land, Rome's borders don’t even touch china yet.

6 – 170 A.D. – Move workers toward Dehli to start chops for Cathedrals. Buy worker from Japan for Currency, 16g (all of it) and WM.

IBT Chinese move on that Roman city.
7 – 190 A.D. – Dehli Horse->another Horse. Bummed that china our neighbor has to have so many gems of his own. We have too many regular troops…

IBT France gets Fued, that’s good :)

8 – 210 A.D. – nothing

IBT Rome wants TM, I politely decline

9 – 230 A.D. – Madras grows, reassign, Mono in 3 at +7g

IBT nothing

10 – 250 A.D. – Bombay grows, up Lux to 10. That’s about it.

Watch that Palace prebuild in bombay, it will finish before Theology is in if we don’t. also Madras and Dehli are prebuilding Cathedrals, 1 chop will be done after Mono for Dehli, another chop (alredy chopping) will be ready for it's next build. any lux trades through our continent go through China, keep that in mind before making a deal, china needs to stay happy.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_250_AD.SAV

I got it!
I think we need theology before we can build SC.
We needs some markets too. I don't think we built many of those.
I going to Move Banglore this turn set as we need a productive city. That bend in the river looks good north of Delhi.

Yeah we do need Theology, That's why we need to watch bombay so closely. With MMing Bombay we can slow it's build way down without starving. Moving Bangalore is a god idea :D , didn't even cross my mind. Definately need Marketplaces, won't help happiness though which is a definate issue atm. SC and Cathedrals will cre that for a long while.

Pre-turn:
I think Market will help a little with Happiness and Cash Issues decide to Swap.
Bombay Market in 2
Delhi Market in 9
Madras Market in 9
Bangalore to settler for abandoning in 6 turns.
Lower Sci to 30% to build a little cash
Since we don’t need Mono so soon. In 4 turns now.

IBT: Palace expands
China looses 3 units to Rome Spear.

Turn 1 (260AD):
MM Bombay for Cash and growth. Market still in one turn.
Send one of the galleys home for disbandment the further one continues on towards France.
Worker Chops going around Delhi will speed up Market.

IBT:
Zulu, Rome, and France all Learn Engineering.

Turn 2 (270AD):
Bombay Market -> Palace

IBT:
China Starts Sun Tzu

Turn 3 (280AD):
Mono in Sci. set to Theology in 15 breaking even.
Trade around Mono and 50gp to Rome for Engineering.
Trade Engineering 50GP to China for Feudalism. We are at Tech Parity.
No one has contacts expect China and France
Japan and Zulu are broke so I hold on to Mono and Feudalism from them.
West Side Aqua -> Harbor
Bombay Switch to Cath in 5

IBT:
Everyone is Tech Parity

Turn 4 (290AD):
Send Galley on Suicide run towards France.

IBT: Lost Galley
China Captures Brundisium from Rome. Loosing 1 Sword.

Turn 5 (300AD):
Not Much ZZZ

Turn 6 (310AD):
Delhi Market-> Cath
Abandon Bangalore for settler.

IBT: Everyone Building Sun Tzu

Turn 7 (320AD):
MM Bombay for Cash and Growth Cath still in One Turn.

Turn 8 (330AD):
Start Chops For Cuture City Site
Bombay: Cath -> Palace pre-build MM For Shields

Turn 9 (340AD):
Drop Lux to 10%
Madras Market -> Cath
Establish East Bend -> Temple

IBT:
France learns Theology

Turn 10 (350AD):
MM To end out.
Theology in 5 Turns. Could be upped to 4 Turns for huge deficit.
Delhi Should build some Pike to replace all the Reg Spear. Disband Reg Spear where app. They get 5 Shields. Don’t Disband them in Bombay. East Bend seems more likely to speed up production there quick.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4605/n9114lw.jpg

THE SAVE 146391

Looking back at the rules because I wanted to know if we could accept a MA against someone.
I think we can't as we would be delcaring war. At least that is the way I see it. Opinions.

I also notice we are not allowed to have slaves. No more buying workers for us. and we will have to disbanded the one we do have.

Got it. Will play after school.

Damn no slaves, I almost added him to Bombay. May not be a bad idea to add some to Bombay to get it to 12 now that France has Theo She can cascade to it so we need it ASAP.
On Military Alliance I agree they wouldn't be allowed, unless we called someone else for help if we get attacked. Would have to fulfill the 20 turns on it if we did ask for one.

We need a monoploy tech. the next one. I don't think Edu is it right now. Plus getting Edu doesn't help us right a way since we can't build Univ yet while the other cities are on Cath. I think we need to go PP and trade for remaining techs and Cash to Full steam in over to Free Artisy for Shakespere. It will be close on SC but if the other civ get to Invention that wll help alot because most cascade to that one.

Yes, Slaves appear to not be allowed. Variant saz to give back da slaves, so that is what I'll do (As soon as I can get them to Delhi). I am also not sure on the MA's, so I won't sign them.
BTW, you guys will have to wait until tommorow for set, because of my mom :mad:

No sweat, we all have those... moms :gripe: When you grow up you just stay up to late and are tired the next day. Why? Because mom's not there to tell you to get to bed. :sleep:

Okay, managed to do Pre-Flight check before school. Here it is:

Pre-Flight (350 AD):
-Japan and Rome have Harbors, but we can't trade across Sea to get to Rome and Japan's harbor city, Satsuma, isn't connected to Kyoto.
-Everyone has contact with the Persians and Babylonians, and France has Theology.
-I looked at prices for contact with Persia and Babylon, which ended up both the same price, although different civs asked for different prices (If this is confusing, I'll give you two of the prices: China asked for 29 gold, 2 gpt for either of them, Zululand asked for 35 gold and 2 gpt, etc.). The cheapest I could get was from France, 28 gold and 2 gpt, which adds up to 68 gold. So, question. Should I make this deal, or wait until we have more gold? And should I contact Persia or Babylon?

It sounds about right for my turn set.
I wouldn't bother buying them. They will get thrown in for a deal soon anyways.
You could probably sell them Theology to one for both and cash but I would probably hold off on that for the moment when they get something to trade then trade thelolgy to the one that has nothing to offer for the contacts. Your choice or if they don't get anything soon. Trade thelogy away for them before France does. It always a little Tricky. But I might be worht it any ways just to see what persian and Babs have We might be able to trade Eng and Fedulism to them for some extra cash.

Will proceed as such. Sadly, France won't sell me Theology. However, the AI are pretty damn poor, so I don't think Joan will want to sell Theo to them.

Set is finshed, but it's too late in my timezone to post. Will post tommorow morning.

Pre-Turn (350 AD) Continued...
-Slave is busy, so I decide to cheat (:mischief:) and let him finish before giving him to his owner, Japan (Don't point the finger at me- you guys were using him too!).
-Hit enter.

IBT:
-Lots of Chinese swords move around.
-Delhi: Cathedral->Galley

Turn 1-Turn 2 (360-370 AD):
:sleep: nothing interesting.

IBT:
-WS: Harbor->Galley
-I get a Palace Expansion. Build Terracing:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Palace.JPG

Turn 3 (380 AD):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Delhi: Galley->Sword
-Madras riots. Taxman becomes clown.

Turn 4 (390 AD):
-Reduce Sci to 20%, Theology still in 1.
-Give Japan their worker back for 23 gold.
-Tell China to beat it- they have a galley in our territory (I was bored) :lol: They say they'll leave.

IBT:
-Chinese Galley leaves.
-We have Theology! Start research on PP, due in 11 at 50% sci.
-Madras riot ends.

Turn 5 (400 AD):
-Trade Theology to Rome for contact with Persia, Contact with Babylon, WM, at 17 gold. Instantly, I see all of the other continent, which China has a city on.
-Babs, Rome, and France are even with us in tech. Japan, China, and Zulus lack Theology, Persia lacks Theology and Engineering. Foriegn Advisor sez that Babylon has betrayed Persia. Hmm.
-Promptly sell Theology to any civ that doesn't have it. This netted about 30 gold, and some WM's.
-Hammurabi has a city on an island South of Eastern other continent, so I Buy his world map for 1 gold (:lol:) to try to see it. It didn't reveal anything.

Okay, have to leave for school now. Other 5 turns will come after school (I only have half of a day, BTW :D)

Just curious what do we need galleys for???
Instead we need to produce vPikes to replace all those reg spears.
I know Madras has a few turns left on the Cath (of course this will fix the rioting) but it is time to start skimming some workers off Madras and Delhi and add the one we do have to Bombay so it is working all the tiles it can ASAP.
Plus skimming those workers will come in handy when we need to rail fast when steam gets in. We will need 6 workers to rail one tile of flat land and 12 to do one hil in one turn. Just some thoughts. 18 such workers would be great. Three teams of 6 - Flat land done in one - Hills done in two sounds pretty good to me.

Also lets not piss off China they scare me right now. They will have riders (xtra movement) soon and be able to hit four cities in one turn if they decide to attack.

JJJ, I wouldn't make mistakes like this if I knew otherwise. The Galley was for suicide to see if anything was to te west (Like the island Babylon has a city on), then I just moved him around looking for Roman/Chinese Galleys.


Rest of Set:

IBT:
-Roman Spear appears outside Brundisium to threaten Chinese worker.
-East Bend: Temple->Cat
-Zulu, Rome building Sistine.

Turn 6 (410 AD):
-LMAO, I forgot to switch Bombay! :rotfl: I switch it to Sistine now (finishes in 30)

IBT:
-Outside Brundisium: Chinese sword loses to Roman spear, second Sword defeats the spear.
-Delhi: Sword->Horse
-WS: Galley->Horse

Turn 7 (420 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Japan building Sistine.

Turn 8 (430 AD):
-Will someone explain why the tile 2W of Madras is irrigated? We can't use it!
-Curious about the island South of other continent, I send galley west into the ocean to check it out.

IBT:
-Damn RNG, the Galley sunk!

Turn 9 (440 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Delhi: Horse->Galley
-Madras: Cathedral->Horse

Turn 10 (450 AD):
-Everyone has Chivalry, and everyone but Babylon has Invention.
-I can't get either Chivalry or Invention. France has a city on SE island (My name for the island south of the east part of the other continent), so I buy their WM for 12 gold.

-End turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie.JPG
-End turn Notes:
-Try to get Invention before Babylon gets it. If you do, we may be able to trade it to them for Chivalry.
-Keep an eye on the F2 screen. Single unroaded tiles prevent us from trading with Japan and the Zulu, so as soon as the AI gets off its lazy arse and builds those roads, we can trade with them!
Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_450_AD.SAV)

I not saying you are making mistakes I just trying to understand your thinking and purpose behind the galleys. The map will be explored by the others AI soon enough and it is not like we are expanding anymore (maybe I wasn’t seeing something and I could learn from it.)
Remember we are JUST 5 cities. Building X is very important and has lasting effects on our little empire. So I wonder when Delhi builds a galley in three turns and suicides into a sea square when we are not expanding and all contacts are known or do we really care about some island off the coast of BFE where we never plan to go to. When the opportunity cost of that build could have been a Pike or 3 turns in to a city improvement.
And maybe this will help you think about how each build will affect this empire in the future.

My Guess is that China Irrigated that tile 2W of Madras for Tientsin to become fully irrigated.
But I have to Ask?? Why do we have two worker crews over there when we can't use either of those tiles ourselves with other tiles we need to improve?
i.e. Madras 1N Flood Plain. / East Bend has three forests that can be chopped for City Improvements where we need to grow that city quick like a Library or Granary.

In answer to you:
The Galleys: Well, now we know, so it can be changed to a pike.
The workers: They are road-building. There aren't any worked tiles that are not improved.

Got it, gonna play now.

Why sell Theology to everyone who doesn't have it for 30g total and WM? And why tell China to beat it? We're in position to start taking the tech lead, this is only Monarch! I know I've said it a dozen times, but it is only Monarch :king: Also I'd be very tentative to trade ith anyone on the other side of China. If we get the SC and Caths in the cities we won't need to trade for luxuries for quite a while. Just thought of something else, by the time we get to the space race techs we'll need to gift civs to our level and trade for needed resources since we can't just go get em. Should be a long time of quiet turn sets. What happens when you have the tech lead, everything you want to build built and tons of money with nothing to spend it on? Guess we'll see :p
For now we'd best build our defenses before China gets sick of us, gonna get Bombay to max pop asap also.

Preturn:
Cut 7 turns off SC in Bombay with Shortage for now
Change Dehli to Pike
Change West Side to Barracks
Wake lots of workers to change their orders next turn - the roads are a good idea just not using 6 workers to do them.
Give the foodplains to East Bend for now.
Change Madras (working unimproved tiles!) to pike.
Turn Science up 1, PP in 5 at 0 now.
Gonna spend my turn getting our defense up.

IBT
Rome starts Leo’s

(1) 460 A.D.
Move workers toward their new tasks.

IBT
Chinese start Sistene

(2) 470 A.D.
Bombay is size 12, SC in 19 turns. Start mine on Bombay’s other gems to work for more cash.

IBT
Nothing

(3) 480 A.D.
Dehli Pike->Pike
East Bend Cat->Library

IBT
Nothing

(4) 490 A.D.
Madras Pike->Pike
West Side Pike->Pike
Disband Galley in Dehli, Pike in 1, mm for cash
Turn science down because PP done in 1

IBT
China asks for ROP and alliance against Rome, decline

(5) 500 A.D.
Printing Press in, Set to Education in 10 at +4
Dehli Grows to 12 ,Pike->Pike
We are up PP on everyone, check all trade ops.
France is running at +40gpt somehow, I want some of that so…
First China wins the auction , they get PP and 13g for Invention, Chivalry, and 5gpt (all that they make)
France next gets PP for WM, 31g, and 19gpt
Rome gets PP for 46g, 12gpt (all that they make), and WM
That’s all, the rest are too poor, none of them have even 1gpt and no more than 25g
Hurry Library in East Bend.
Raise Science, Education now in 8 at +1g

IBT
Nothing

(6) 510 A.D.
East Bend Library->Barracks, Disband 2 reg spear in East Bend, cuts 4 turns off
Move Horse from Bombay to Dehli for upgrade

IBT
Persie starts SC

(7) 520 A.D.
Dehli Pike->War Elephant
Mm Madras, Pike still in 1, 5 more gold

IBT
Japan starts Leo’s
French start SC

(8) 530 A.D.
Madras Pike->Pike
Mm Bombay to cut turns off SC at shortage (keep doing this until it’s in I hope)

IBT
Persia start Leo’s
French start Leo’s

(9) 540 A.D.
West Side Pike->Pike
China, Rome, Babylon, Rance know Education (Maybe should have researched gunpowder but hey, maybe we won’t have Saltpeter anyway), we get Education in 2
Gem mine finishes for Bombay, now running at Zero Growth
Disband reg spear in East Bend, Barracks in 2

IBT
Rome wants to share WM, decline
Rome starts Leo’s

(10) 550 A.D.
Workers move into position by East Bend to road and irrigate, turn Science down to 10%, Education still in 1.

Notes: None really, we have 6 Pikes, 5 Swords, 4 Cats, 4 Horses, and 1 Elephant. Would like at least twice that to defend anything China and his Riders will bring. They’ve been at war with Rome for a good 35 turns now.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_Cyllus__550_AD.SAV

I do agree this is shapping up to be a space race game. We can't start wars for leader fishing and to slow the tech pace down with getting the other civs to war with each other. Makes Culture a little more diffcult but not immpossible.
As for Resources:
Highly likely we will have Coal and ALum. with all these hills.
Oil is probable with several desert and a few Tundra tiles.
Rubber I am little worried about.
Uranium I think is pure luck and is only needed for One SS part. IIRC
Trading will become important as well.
Good Luck Cyllus. Take your Time. I won't be home this weekend to play until late Sunday.

Ok Wow! I might Have time to Play tonight before I go. I will post a got it now then.

Nice times on those posts :lol:
Just rereading my own turnlog I wonder had I held off trading PP I could have gotten Education :mad: especially as the AI never ever researches PP before gowing lower on the tech track. Opportunity missed me thinks.

Nah! I Don't Think So. We were getting it 2 turns we have really just have over paid for it.

Pre-turn
Ok Looks Good! Debate on Change in Madras to CH but decide against.

IBT:
Everyone Learns Gunpowder.

Turn 1 (560AD):
Education in Set to Banking in 8 at -19gpt.
East Bend Barracks -> Market
Upgrade one Horse to Elephant

IBT:
China and Rome sign Peace

Turn 2 (570AD):
Sci down 80% Still 7
Delhi WE -> Worker
Madras Pike -> Worker
Madras about to Riot Gets a Tax man.

Turn 3 (580AD):
Sci to 70% -> still in 7
Delhi Worker -> University

Turn 4 (590AD):
Madras Worker -> Courthouse
WS Pike -> Market

Turn 5 (600AD):
MM Growth in Madras and Delhi
Trade Edu 60 gp and 1 gpt to Zulu for GunPowder and WM
NO Salt.

Turn 6 (610AD):
ZZZ

Turn 7 (620AD):
ZZZ

Turn 8 (630AD):
MM WS to drop Market Down to 10 Turns

Turn 9 (640AD):
Sci down 60% Banking in 1

IBT:
A lot of People Learned Music Theory.

Turn 10 (650AD):
Banking IN Sci Set 50% to Demo in 17 Building a little Surplus (We need to Rush a few Project in the Coming Turns.)
The only thing I can get for Banking is MT which I did not see a reason too.
Waiting to see if we can get Astronomy and cash

Skim a Worker off Madras and Delhi after the Courthouse and Univ respectably
SC due NEXT TURN Enjoy the Cascade.
Bombay I would suggest 1st a Courthouse (rush ASAP when we get enough cash) next Pre-Build for Copernicus or a Univ (rush if Possible).
East Bend has a Chop coming in 4. Account for the shields wisely with the next build.

Have a good Weekend.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3118/n911ux0.jpg

The SAVE 146522

Why sell Theology to everyone who doesn't have it for 30g total and WM?
Because if you sell a tech or contact to an AI, it always sells that tech/contact to every civ it knows that has any cash at all.

China, Rome, Babylon, Rance know Education (Maybe should have researched gunpowder but hey, maybe we won’t have Saltpeter anyway)


I'm shocked we didn't get saltpeter. we have all that desert...

JJJ, we can probably get rubber by trading with China. Hopefully, we will get more than one oil/alluminum.

Got it.

EDIT:
I can't download the save... It says "Invalid attachment"

Try Again
The Save : 146552

It works now. :goodjob:
Will commence with playing.

Been finished for a while, haven't gotten around to posting, so here is da set:

Pre-Turn (650 AD):
-We can trade Gems to Zulu. Or rather, we could, but China already is! :gripe:
-All But Persia and Japan have Music Theory. China and Persia are down Banking, Japan is down Education and Banking.
-Everyone is building Sistine, Everyone but us is building Sun Tzu, and Roma, Japan, France, and Persia are building Leo's.
-Hit enter and prepare for cascade hell.

IBT:
-Bombay completes Sistine Chapel.
-Bombay: SC->rax (It's the only city that doesn't have rax)
-East Bend: Market->WE (War Elephant)
-Lots of cascades to Sun Tzu, Leo's, and JS Bach's. Nothing finished, though.

Turn 1 (600 AD):
-Increase Sci to 70%, Demo now in 12.

IBT:
:sleep:

Turn 2 (670 AD):
-Open MapStat. Nobody has Astro.
-Establish Embassy with Rome.
-Saltpeter situation:
-China has 3, but only 2 are connected, and 1 that is connected is being sold to Zulu (They are only trading with Rome and Zulu, and embassy showed that Rome doesn't have Salt)
-Zulu has 2, both unconnected.
-Japan and Rome have 0.
-France and Pesia have 1, connected.
-Babylon has 2, both connected.

IBT:
-Bombay: Rax->Bank
-Madras: Court->WE

Turn 3 (680 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Rome, Zulu, and Babylon get Astro (thank you, Map Stat!).

Turn 4 (690 AD):
-China must also be selling Gems to Rome- now that Rome has Astro, I can trade with them, and I can't trade Gems to them. Damn you, Mao!
-I can't get Astro.

IBT:
-France gets Astro, China gets Astro and Banking (Meaning I can't trade Banking to them for Astro- Damn it!)

Turn 5 (700 AD):
-gpt deal must have just ended, since we are at -20 gpt now. Correct that by decreasing Sci to 60%; Democracy in 7.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 6 (710 AD):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Delhi: Uni->Bank
-Rome building Copernicus.
-Japanese get Education.

Turn 7 (720 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-WS: Market->WE
-Zulu building Copernicus.

Turn 8 (730 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Madras: WE->WE
-East Bend: WE->Cat
-Babylon building Copernicus.
-Babylon establishes Embassy in Delhi (woohoo, we don't have to pay for it!)

Turn 9 (740 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Babylon building Leo's.
-Persia gets Banking.

Turn 10 (750 AD):
-Military Advisor Says:

Our Military is Strong compared to Japan!
Our Military is Average compared to Zulu!
Our Military is Weak compared to Persia, France, Babylon, Rome, and China!

-I also notice that Persia has a Babylonian worker and a Babylonian city (Eridu). I wonder why I didn't notice this earlier. They must have had a war in the past. Or, Eridu culture flipped and Babylon sold the worker (which is highly unlikely), but probably the former.
-Tech Situation:
-Japan is down Banking.
-Persia is even.
-Everyone else is up Music and Astro.

End Turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie4.JPG
End Turn Notes:
-Hopefully, Japan will get Astrom before Banking, and we cna trade Banking to them to get Astro.
-If we end up at war with anyone, particularly China (which I actually hope for- I want Tientsin or Xinjian, they have Saltpeter!), gang up on them. AI wars could benifit us.
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Religious_SG_750_AD.SAV)

Gotta go to bed, no time to look at the save or anything but I do have a question. If that little Chinese town flips to us do we want it or shall we just keep East Bend? I like East Bend, would actually like to hold out for Tsing Tao if/when China declares. dunno :crazyeye:

If you mean Brundisium, accept the flip, then abandon the city. :devil: It interferes with East Bend. :evil:

Good thinking Chox.

And away we go!

Preturn:
Change West Side from WE to Cathedral (happiness will be an issue when it grows)
Think about changing East Bend to something else but leave it as Cat for defense, really burns me that we can’t clear china away from our borders lol.
Lower Lux to zero, raise Sciene one to cut a turn off Democracy and put West Sides Cathedral completion to finish on growth.
All in all looks good, just personal preference stuff :)
Hit Enter

IBT
zzzz

1 – 760 A.D.
Bombay Bank->University
Move lots of workers around, not use to having workers with no worked tiled to improve.

IBT
zzzz

2 – 770 A.D.
Democracy in, set to Economics in 10
Revolt, change to Democracy immediately, Bombay starves though.
Put worker into Bombay (was only going to grow in 17)
Let the Trades Begin
Democracy to Babylon for Astonomy, Music Theory, WM, 14g, 63gpt
Democracy to France for WM, 133g, and 45gpt
Democracy to China for WM, 48g, and 21gpt
Democracy to Zulu for WM, 65g, and 46gpt
That's all of everyone's gold and gpt
Purchase Incense from Romans for Democracy and 120g
For some reason Rome was very stubborn about it, wouldn't give us crap for Democracy even before trading it around.


Upgrade 3 horses to EW
Science to 100%, Economics in 6 +107gpt

IBT
Persians demand Music Theory, I politely decline and they declare war on us? No kidding, we are at war with Persia.

3 – 780 A.D.
East Bend Cat->University
Upgrade final Horse to EW

IBT
zzzz

4 – 790 A.D.
Madras EW->University
Palace Expansion

IBT
zzzz

5 – 800 A.D.
zzzz

IBT
Zzzz

6 – 810 A.D.
zzzz

IBT
Japan gets Sun Tzu’s
Lots of cascade, nothing completes

7 – 820 A.D.
Turn Science down because Economics in 1. +270gpt’s nice

IBT
French completes Leo’s
No cascade?

8 – 830 A.D.
Economics in Set to Chemistry at 100% in 7 +106gpt
Dehli Bank->Cat
Join Worker to East Bend

IBT
China completes Copernicus
Rome completes Magellan’s
Persia completes JS Bach’s

9 – 840 A.D.
Join another worker to East Bend



IBT
All is quiet

10 – 850 A.D.
Nothing again

Bombay has University finished in 1 turn, Nobody else is building a Wonder atm so you can change that to Smith’s if you like.
Just noticed that Bombay has not build Courthouse yet… My bad, would have had Bombay at 25spt after corruption.
We are up Economics on everyone, Babylon and Zulu are up Chemistry on everyone. Plenty of civs also have Navigation now.
We are loaded, 992g and 106gpt.
Persia sill won't talk to us. Haven't seen any Persians yet.
So how do we actuly get a tech lead on the world with 5 cities? We are cruising along but the world is keeping up nicely.
Pic hasn’t changed.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_cyllus_850__ad.SAV

Nice! 100% Sci and making 100+ gpt! :eek: Now, question: 2nd MA wonder.
Sun Tzu, Leo, Sistine, Copernicus, JS Bach, and Magellan are all built, leaving Smith, Shakes, and smoething else. It looks like your set has set us up for Smith's.

Ok I got it.

Q's now.
Switch to Demo??
I my feeling is Republic gives us the extra Commerce tiles thus more cash. Demo no Commerce bonus but faster workers. Otherwise there isn't much of a difference. I think with a small empire worker speed is not so important but cash is. Your thoughts.

I guess we have given up on Culture race then since we didn't head for Free Artistry for Shake's.

TOG has Newton’s which is a sci wonder 100%. So that what I would be after now.
Smith’s is only going to save us 12 gpt a turn. That a lot of shield for that savings.

IF we get a Flip to us I would Accept it. Sell off all improvements and then abandon.
I keep EB now it is on a river and nice commerce producers thus a Sci improver the other 3 Cities don’t have rivers.

Salt is not that important after Cavs. Trade for it when we get the OPP. Upgrade and build. Otherwise Ignore.

With our inability to start wars staying in the tech lead will be tricky. In order to such we much select Techs that the AI won't go for and trade it away for what we need. Of course get TOE will help a lot.

As for Demands I would turn everyone to shove it. Except China Then I would think about it. It also depends on the Demand: TM and Cash cave it Specially if they are paying us GPT. Techs I almost surely will tell them to Shove it.

Pre-turn
Change Delhi to Worker Full Bin Need Workers for RR
Change EB to Courthouse in 1 no Loss.
Rush Univ in Madras
Rush Cath in WS
Time to get rid of the Swords move them to Bombay for disbandment on CH.

Turn 1 (860AD):
Sci down to 70% still 3
Delhi Worker -> CH
Bombay Univ -> CH
Madras Unvi -> Worker (full Bin)
WS Cath-> CH
EB CH -> Cath
Disband 4 Swords in Bombay.
Rush CH in Bombay
Establish Embassy with France.

Turn 2 (870AD):
Trade Econ for Chemistry and Navigation for Worlds cash and GPT
Sci to METAL 100% in 6
Bombay CH -> Gran. (1 sword Disbanded-Rushed)
Madras Worker -> Granary

IBT: Rome declares on Persia.

Turn 3 (880AD):
Bombay Granary -> Smith’s pre-build (Shake’s or Newton’s)

IBT: Babs Start Smith’s

Turn 4 (890AD):
Rush Cath in EB

Turn 5 (900AD):
EB Cath -> Univ
Rush CH in WS

IBT: Babs Demand TM and 37 GP since he is paying us 84gpt turn I give it to him. (not going to get out of those payments that easy) :lol:
Rome starts Shakes

Turn 6 (910AD):
Sci Down to 60% still 2
Delhi CH-> WE
WS CH -> Univ
Madras Gran -> Bank
Rush Univ in EB

IBT: China Declares on Persia

Turn 7 (920AD):
EB Univ -> Granary

Turn 8 (930AD):
Metal in set to Physics in 6 turns
Trade Metal Around for some more 87 GPT deals Cash and FA
Swap Bombay to Shake’s in 12 Turns.

Turn 9 (940AD):
Rush Univ at WS

Turn 10 (950AD):
WS Univ -> Bank
Rush Gran in EB

Keep skimming Workers off Delhi and Madras. We will need them to Rail and they can later be added to Cities when we get some Hospitals. We only have 6 right now that is Not Enough.
We also need to Road those last Hills and Mountains in case they have Coal on them as well.

I would not give Persia any Peace the War Happiness is just too nice right now. Plus they are no threat with being at War with China and Rome. :D

I think we really want Newton’s now. However if we SLOW down the Tech speed a little we can get Shakes and Newton’s both. It is very tricky here. We want to complete Shake’s before any AI’s get TOG. (THUS TOG IS OUR NEXT TECH.) But we only want to finish researching it when Shakes completes. (This makes TOG more expensive for the AI to Research.) When we complete Shake’s. We just want to avoid the Cascade to Newton’s. If another AI gets TOG Switch Immediately to Newton’s Trade for it Crank up Research to full whatever is better. I think we can out build any Civ to a wonder on an even start we just need to avoid those Cascades. Holding off on trading Physics will also help.
In Fact I would only Trade Physics For MT and Salt. So we can upgrade and make Cavs and Cannons.

Checking out the Flip Risks:
Brundi has about 3% to flip to us. :mischief:
Tsingtao NONE
Xinjian .2%
Teintsing .3%
Madras flipping to China is .2% We Need 2 More Troops to stop. :sad:

The Save: 146751

End Turn:
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/6954/n911hd7.jpg

About the government, I've searched a lot for a place where they are described in great detail only to come up with nothing. I don't know *that* much about them, definately my poorest sbject about civ III. If Repo gives more cash and only slower workers I definately agree with a switch to it JJJ.
Surprised Brundi flip chance is so low.
Wish China would just declare on us already also so we can clear them away from our cultural borders for aras and EB.

I my feeling is Republic gives us the extra Commerce tiles thus more cash. Demo no Commerce bonus but faster workers. Otherwise there isn't much of a difference. I think with a small empire worker speed is not so important but cash is. Your thoughts.
Democracy gives the commerce bonus too.

Thanks Tim,

Guess I am wrong I never bother with the switch to Demo because I hate Anarchy.

I think I changed my mind about continued War with persia They have Furs to Trade which would do the same thing. without the risk of them dragging someone else on their side. Thoughts??

Got it. I think I'll pull those WE's off the mountain to prevent flip of Madras (this would suck and blow) :lol: As for Persia, I could MA Babylon against Persia and watch sparks fly. :mischief: What do you think? And should I use Smith as prebuild for Newton in another city?

A good Idea Choxorn. I had 20K tunnel vision.

Here is the Break down. Bombay I know for a fact the shields are the others are guesses because I am at work.
Wish I could look at it for the exact amount of Shields and commerce each city is doing.

Bombay IS 25SPT which would require 17 turns to complete.
10 tiles of Extra Commerce that are on the river including 2 Gems Mountains.

Madras is ~ 20SPT which is 20 turns
7 Tiles of Extra commerce Tiles on the river. One wheat.

Delhi is ~17spt which is 24 turns
5 Tiles of Extra Commerce that are on the river. Plus Coastal tiles. Plus spices and Horses

EB is ~ 14spt which is 29 turns
7 Tiles of Extra commerce that are on the river.

WS is ~ 12spt which is 33 Turns
4 Tiles of Extra commerce on a river. One Gem mountain and coast.

Guesses only Delhi, Bombay, Madras, EB, then WS would give the best benefit from Newton’s.

So Delhi sounds like a good pre-build for it. With a Toss up between Madras and Bombay. Depending if we want it sooner Or with more benefit.

Okay, Newtons will be built in Delhi. Will Pre-Build with Smith's.
I have to leave for school in 30 minutes, so I probably can't get to it right now- will try after school.

Okay, MA with Babylon vs. Persia costs either Metallurgy or 24 gpt, which is a total of 480 gold. :eek: Is signing the MA still a good idea?

Honestly I see no need to make peace or get anyone else involved against Persia. They're currently at war wth China and Rome as well. If they drag somebody else into it so be it, they still can't touch us. Also we have our frineds China to buy in against anyone i the need be.

The point of dragging Babylon in is that they are right next to Persia and one of them might destroy, or at least seriuously hurt the other- that's good. I could also get France in for the same reason, except Persia would pwn them.

I Think the MA is too Expensive.
I Personally like PT so we can trade for the Furs. Your Choice.

I also think it's a bit too expensive, so I'll sign Peace with Persia and trade for furs, and hopefully salt too (They have 2 of them).

Okay, the set is done. But, as is always the case, it is almost time for me to go to bed and I can't post it. :(
Quick summary:
-Signed Peace with Persia on Turn 0 and got Furs
-China and Persia signed peace- all that happened in that war was the Chinese city on the other continent, Anyang, getting captured by Persia.
-Rome and Zulu MA vs Persia. Zulu declare war on Persia.
-Some people start Smiths and Shakes
-Some guys have Military Tradition.

The set, or at least as much I can post of it before i have to leave for school:

Pre-Turn (950 AD):
-Open MapStat. Nothing much to note, but we are the tech leaders, tied with Rome and Zulu. Japan is the farthest behind, down Democracy, Free Artistry, Navigation, and Metallurgy.
-An MA with Babs vs Persia costs 24 gpt or Metallurgy, as I previously explained. Decide that's too much.
-Sign Peace with Persia, giving them 140 gold (We can make more than that in one turn). Then Trade Gems for Furs, 45 gold, and WM.
-Hit enter and see if anything interesting happens.

IBT:
-Delhi: WE->Smith as pre-build for Newton
-East Bend: Granary->Bank
-Babylon starts Shakes.

Turn 1 (960 AD):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Zulu are building Smith's.
-Lot of deals end, and we lose our supply of incense and a lot of gpt.

Turn 2 (970 AD):
-I can't get much from trading for gpt. Decide not to. That sux.

IBT:
-Rome requests a WM trade. I decline.
-Babs and France get Metal, China gets FA (Free Artistry).
-Anyang, the Chinese city on the other continent, is captured by Persia.

Turn 3 (980 AD):
-Sci down to 50%, Physics still in 1.

IBT:
-Rome and Zulu MA against Persia.
-Persia starts Smith.
-We have Physics, set research to ToG, due in 7 (When Shakes comes in) @ 70%.
-Someone else must have gotten Physics last turn, because now China, Zulu, Rome, Babylon have it. Also, China has Metal and Japan has Nav.

Turn 4 (990 AD):
:sleep:

IBT:
zzz

Turn 5 (1000 AD):
-No celebration for the new millenium. :lol:

IBT:
-China starts Shakes.

Turn 6 (1010 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-China and Persia sign Peace.
-Madras: Bank->Worker (We'll need a few for RRing, which will be soon)
-France now has Physiscs.

Turn 7 (1020 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Madras: Worker->WE

Turn 8 (1030 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-China, Zulu, Babylon, Rome have MT. They must be researching at the same speed we are...

Turn 9 (1040 AD):
-Curious, I check the prices on MT: China: 841 gold
Babylon, Rome: 890 gold
Zulu: 915 gold
-Of course, I don't buy it- it's useless to us without Saltpeter.

IBT:
-China starts Smiths

Turn 10 (1050 AD):
zzz

End Turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie5.JPG

End Turn Stuff:
-ToG and Shakes complete next turn. Switch Delhi to Newton.
-Hopefully, The Zulu either already have Saltpeter connected or will connect it soon, and whoever's trading it to them can trade it to us.
-We want Saltpeter!
-Brundisium is long overdue for a culture flip. :badcomp:
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_1050_AD.SAV)

Looks Good Choxorn.
We got a little Xtra Cash We might rush those Banks (WS, EB) and Bombay can start in on Wall Street Next turn. Better then Civs asking for all that Cash. May also Buy MT before TOG so we don't give up the Tech in Trade. If you do decide to Trade do it on turn 2 because of the cascade effect.

After that WE in Madras I would Go two workers we need them very quick now. Not Sure of the count we have now looks like 9 but even numbers are good to have. I think it will be 6 Workers per flat tile to RR. If we manage 3
more we would have 2 teams of 6 then.

Did a little more Research and Demo has got a production Bonus too over Republic. Which is way cool. Learn something new. So yeah a Demo gov is way better when Religious as a trait.

Got It, played it. Didn't get the 12 workers JJJ would have liked, we do still have time to make 2 more though.

Preturn
Things look good, hit Enter
Will keep an eye out for Saltpeter to be on the trade block.

IBT
Persia and Rome sign peace
ToG in, set to Navigation in 5 at +28, gonna try for a tech lead. Maybe trade our first IA tech for Babylon or Persia’s freebee.
Bombay Shake’s->Cat
Cascade - China, Zulu, Rome switch to Smith’s

1 – 1060 A.D.
China has workers for sale, I immediately think to buy em, then remember…
Switch Dehli to Newton’s, hold off on trading ToG (praying someone complete’s Smith’s very soon, then we can trade it :please: )

IBT
East Bend Bank->Coliseum (try to press Culture Expansion on Brundism)
Bombay Worker->Cat

2 – 1080 A.D.
Send 2 workers to each city in prep for RR
Deals expired, went from +132 gold to –6, lower science, Magnetism now in 5 at +68g

IBT
Madras WE->Pike
Bombay Cat->WE


3 – 1085 A.D.
nothing

IBT
Zulu offers MT for ToG, decline

4 - 1090 A.D.
China, Babylon, and Rome learned Magnetism, we have it in 2

IBT
Madras Pike->Coliseum (Culture thing)

5 – 1100 A.D.
Turn Science down, that’s it

IBT
Rome declares on China
Magnetism in->Steam in 10 at +25g
Palace expansion

6 – 1110 A.D.
Purchase SALTPETER from China (had a deal with Romans maybe?) for 206g straight up.
Purchase MT from Rome for Gems and 382g
Check our military strength against the world before
Upgrade 7 cats for 280g
Upgrade 9 Pikes for 540g
Upgrade 11 War Elephants for 240g
Check our military strength against the world after
Military strength before and after upgrades
China, Zulu, and Babylon - weak to average
Rome and Persia - weak still weak
Japan and France - strong before and after of course
Rush Coliseum in East Bend

IBT
Bombay Cavalry->Musket
East Bend Coliseum->Musket

7 – 1120 A.D.
Going to lose 94gpt next turn…

IBT
Nothing

8 – 1130 A.D.
Babylon knows Nationalism
Trade Magnetism to Zulu for WM and 42gpt (looks like they make 43gpt)
Have to turn Science down, now Steam in 9 at +16gpt
Could have traded ToG away but I held out for a chance the world would finish Smith’s before learning ToG :gripe: .

IBT
West Side Bank->Granary, this can be changed, (I think I read that granaries are only useful up to size 6? If I misunderstood this please post so because it confuses me :confused: )
China, Zulu, and Rome start Newton’s

9 – 1140 A.D.
Switch Bombay to Wall Street, due in 13

IBT
Babylon starts Newton’s

10 – 1150 A.D.
Nothing

Steampower due in 7, Newton’s in 4!
We have 2 workers in each city ready to RR. Now that I think about it, we may want to bring some to Dehli to RR it faster if it lands Newton’s.
On a sour note, looks like Brundism expanded its borders instead of us expanding ours. :mad:
Is there a way to see the flip probability of OTHER civ’s cities?

The pic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/finishing_Pic.JPG

The save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_Cyllus__1150_AD.SAV

ToG in, set to Navigation in 5 at +28,
You mean Magnetism, right? :p


On a sour note, looks like Brundism expanded its borders instead of us expanding ours. :mad:
Is there a way to see the flip probability of OTHER civ’s cities?


It would make our day if China declared war on us :devil:. And no, I don't know of a way to check other civ flip probability.

Is there a way to see the flip probability of OTHER civ’s cities?
The flip calc (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=53157) is useful.

Ok I got it.
I personally like the Gang worker option Faster options to work improved tiles faster.

As for Flip Risk:
You also use CivAssist 2. Check Out Cities or World map option it will also tell you.

Pre-turn:
Boost Sci up so in 6 turns -19 gpt loss.

Turn 1 (1160AD):
Most everyone has TOG now.
No trade values to either Persia or France who are short it. So I see no Reason to sell.
Check Flips Brundisium is bout 2% now.

Turn 2 (1170AD):
East Bend Musket -> Cav

Turn 3 (1180AD):
Madras Colls -> Worker

IBT:
Persia declares on Babs
China offer MPP and ROP I decline.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9315/newtonsgu9.jpg
Turn 4 (1190AD):
Sci Down to 80% Steam still in 2
Delhi Newton’s -> Worker
Madras Worker -> Worker

IBT:
Japan and Zulu Declare war on China

Turn 5 (1200AD):
Sci down to 70% still in 1
Madras Worker -> Worker
Delhi Worker -> Worker

IBT: Japan Offers MPP and ROP
France offer to exchange WM I accept. (I see no big problem here we are peaceful and it help them stay polite for a possible Diplo. VC)

Turn 6 (1210AD):
Steam in set to Industrialism in 8.
We have Coal underneath WS
Need only need 4 workers for a gang for flat land.
HMMM! Check on the shopping. Rome offers Lots of Cash. The others offer nationalism.
I think I am going to sell for cash and make a strong push for Industrialism.
Sell to Rome, China, Zulu, and Babs for dye, incense 300 gp and 249 gpt
Madras Worker -> Cav
Delhi Worker -> Cav

Turn 7 (1220AD):
EB Cav -> Cav
WS Gran -> Cav (and Yes Granary stills works even above size 6 pop)

Turn 8 (1230AD): ZZZ

IBT: Babs Demand 70gp and TM (he paying 61gpt so I give it.)

Turn 9 (1240AD): ZZZ

IBT: Japan and Rome sign MPP

Turn 10 (1250AD): ZZZ
Brundisium Flip is now 1.9%

When we get IND I would Rush a Factory and Coal plant in Bombay. Then Start in on US.
Or even after Bombay completes Wall St. Start a Pre-Build for a Factory. Then rush it when Industrial comes in. Disband some unit and then rush the coal plant this really will speed up US by about 5-7 turns doing it this way.

Let’s start Medicine next. It will let us make a decision whether to go for sanitation or head Elec. then Sci Method. The AI is usually slow to reach Sci Method so I think we will have time to get hospitals. Thoughts???

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8931/n911lv0.jpg
the Save : 147039

That's the way I usually play it at this point, get Factories then Medicine, Hospitals, Electricity, heading straight for Scientific Method for ToE.
At some point do we want to think about moving the palace to Bombay? Purely by building it of course.
Interesting Zulu and Japan decide to join rome against China. That'll be interesting to see. (If this were a solo game I'd even sign RoP with China so I could go watch it :D )
What is it about JJJ's turnsets that make babylon come calling for cash all the time? :lol:

Okay Got it. Can't play right now becuase I'm not on civ computer. Obviously, we want the ToE. For our second wonder, do we want US or Hoovers, or both? Just to note, all of our cities are on rivers and thus all can build Hydro Plants, and later, Nuclear Plants.
Hmm. Japan and Zulu are at war with China... Perhaps we could use MPPs to get at war with China when our Saltpeter deal ends? :mischief:

Believe the MPP idea crossed my mind but I think it would go against the variant. As for wonders, how many are there in the IA? Only 3 I can think of are US, ToE, and Hoover. We can probably get all of them.

A MPP I think is a No. We would have chance of DOW on someone, which is against the Variant.

I don't see a reason we can't get all three wonders. if for no other reason then for AI denial.

Modern Age Has 5 Wonders. UN, Manhattan Project, SETI, Longevity, Cure for Cancer. I feel the Manhattan should be a Banned one.

Yes, those are the only 3 wonders in the IA. And I don't know about the MPP's breaking the rules- it would certainly not be a violation if it was to get someone else to declare war on someone we are already at war with, like the MA's. But it's unclear whether or not signing MPP's to get into a war with somebody is illegal because the variant only says we can't declare war, and while MA's are just automatic war declarations, while MPP's can only cause war if one of the two people is involved in a war. I personally would like allowing them as it would make the game easier, but you guys have a say in this too.
EDIT: In answer of JJJ's post: I don't see why Manhattan should be banned because this variant says zip about nukes. However, we have to build the UN, not so we win, but so no one else wins. And I guess, you're right, no MPP's. Will start playing now, but it is late and I will most likely not get much done.

I only suggested Manhattan been banned. Just Because the Idea behind it is to allow Nukes which are only used in War. To build it First means you intended to use them against another Civ.
I think it is just the same reasoning Cyllus Suggested No Miltary Wonders from the Middle age.

I think we will be going for SETI and UN anyways for our Modern wonders. It just which one do we want first.

EDIT:
Don't worry once we have spies there are ways of proking a War.

The variant says we can't go to war with them if provoked, and a failed spy mission is provocation. But if it was a "Remove or Declare" or a demand, I don't think that counts as provocation! :mischief:
I think we should build UN first. If someone else builds it, someone else could win by diplomacy, and we don't want that, so getting it built is a priority. And we will try to avoid Manhattan, let some other loser build it, then launch SS.
Will start playing ASAP.

:lol: Chox. I would bet JJJ and I want a war with China as bad as you, if not more :dunno: :groucho: but in the spirit of the variant I'd like to not even pull any "The AI is so dumb that we can drag them into a war a number of ways" tactics. If we make it all the way to Victory without a war I'd be bummed for sure but that's kinda what we signed up for :sad: and i'd like to stick to it.
I would turn down a demand from China though, they just haven't demanded anything yet. They been polite the whole game it seems.

Trust me. I can think of four or five China towns I want removed.
But with out DOW, getting them to declare is not so easy.

HMM! Hadn't thought of a failed Spy mission as provocation. But to me it is the CIVs choice to declare not ours.
I have played other games where a Spy mission didn't start a war that I did want.
I have also had spy mission done against me where I didn't declare war either.

I think Provocation entails trapping in our Border then forcing a Move or Declare. (or right after a Peace deal) Knowing full well they will declare.
Or purposefully making the AI mad (troops in their borders, outrageous demands)
But I could see a Spy mission that you were hoping to fail to start a war is provocation. But if he had a Real mission to perform then it fails I see no issues with that.

How about empty cites enticing them to attack it??

Edit: This where having the N911 would be nice to know what he meant by provoked.

I can also think of a few:

Annoying Chinese Cities:

City#1: Brundisum
City#2: Tientsin
City#3: Tsingtao
City#4: Xinjian

And you have a point. Trying to get them to declare war through spy missions is provocation, but just doing something like planting a spy or stealing a tech (which we will actually want to do in Modern Age) because we actually want it doesn't really count. Telling them to Remove or Declare is not provocation if they moved the units in and can move them. Rejecting a demand is not provocation either.

Hmm. Idea. Everyone but Japan has Nationalism and I'm not willing to pay the price they've put on it. Perhaps I could steal it from China? They are the cheapest civ to steal techs from, and we are ready if the mission fails and war is declared. So, should I attempt to steal Nat from China? And BTW, I can afford to do it "Immediately".

China vs Us: Cavs vs Muskets are not good for us.
Us vs China: Cavs vs Rifles not great but doable.

However, the Problem is once we go to War we loose our salt supply we are not capable of getting more.

Me: I keep that Cash for rushes on Factories.
Imm. steals don't pay off I only do Careful steals. (plus only with Spies as well)
Plus nationalism isn't that great with RP so Close.

Edit: This where having the N911 would be nice to know what he meant by provoked.

Totally! I see the variant as looking to win the game without any war in any way brought on of our own doing.

Again, this is only Monarch, if the "play nice" rules weren't in effect we would have wiped our continent clean by now. If we get China to decare on us right now while at war with Rome, Japan, and Zulu we could more than likely wipe them right out. I don't think that's what n had in mind.

Okay no steal.

Okay the set is done, and since it is Saturday, I actually have time to post it! :banana:

Some Stuff that happened:
-We have Industrialization, Nationalism, and Medicine.
-We have Factories in every city, and soon will have Coal Plants in every city.
-Every city is connected via railroads.
-AI Wars: Japan captured a city from China, and Babylon captured 4 cities from Persia (well, actually, 5 cities, but Persia immediately recaptured Sardis), among which were Persia's lone sources of Coal and Saltpeter.
-France declared war on Persia on the final IBT due to a MPP they signed with Babylon.
-Tokugawa is an idiot (and not just because he leads the least advanced civ), because he signed peace with China them immediately re-declared war due to his MPP with Caeser. :lol:
-China is still not at war with us. :mad:

Actually, it appears that I can't post the set right now due to my mom forcing me off the computer (:gripe: [pissed]), so I'll have to post later.

And now I can post the set, so here it is:

Pre-Turn (1250 AD):
-MapStat doesn't reveal much useful, except for the fact that Japan doesn't have Magnetism or ToG.
-Current AI wars: Rome, Zulu, and Japan are at war with China, Zulu and Babylon are at war with Persia. Also, Rome has MPP's with Japan and Zululand.
-Hit enter.

IBT:
-Delhi: Cav->Ironclad (we have 0 navy)
-Bombay: Wall Street (Extra 50 gpt, woohoo! :D)->Cannon
-Beijing completes Smiths.

Turn 1 (1255 AD):
-3 cities connected to RR network.

IBT:
-Madras: Cav->Cannon
-EB: Cav->Cannon

Turn 2 (1260 AD):
-4 cities connected to RR network.
-France has Nat, and the price they pur on it is Steam and 1240 gold. I am not paying that much. Hmm. There is the option of stealing tech, but as earlier said, bad idea.

IBT:
-Japan and China sign peace.
-Bombay: Cannon->Cav
-Japan has reached the IA.

Turn 3 (1265 AD):
-All cities are now connected by RR.
-Turn sci down to 70%, Industrialization still in 1.
-Japan doesn't have anything to offer for Steam.

IBT:
-Roman Leigonary attacks Brundisium. :lol: Obviously, it loses.
-Japan declares war on China because of the MPP (I think).
-We have Industrialization! Set research to Medicine, due in 7 @ 100%.
-Babylon captures Tarsus and Anyang, which had Persia's lone sources of Saltpeter and Coal.

Turn 4 (1270 AD):
-Trade Indus to Babylon for 1586 gold (all they had), 113 gpt, and their WM.
-Trade Indus and 710 gold (against my better judgement) to China for Nat and their WM.
-France and Japan don't have Steam, so I can't trade them Indus, and Zulu, Rome, and Persia have no gpt, no luxes, and very little gold, so I don't trade it to them.

IBT:
-Madras: Cannon->Factory
-WS: Cannon->Factory
-EB: Cannon->Factory (Listens to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in the background- my brother is watching it :crazyeye:)

Turn 5 (1275 AD):
-Babylon and China have Commy, but neither are in Commy.
-Rushing he Factories costs waaay to much this turn due to 8x cost, so I will wait until next turn.

IBT:
-Delhi: Ironclad->Factory
-Bombay: Cav->Factory
-The Salt deal with China ends.

Turn 6 (1280 AD):
-Re-buy China's salt for 247 gold.
-Send the just-built Ironclad out to explore unknown waters, as its crew was bored.
-Rush the Factories in East Bend, Madras, and WS for a total of 2688 gold.

IBT:
-Rome requests a WM trade. I decline.
-Madras: Factory->Coal Plant
-WS: Factory->Coal PLant
-EB: Factory->Coal Plant

Turn 7 (1285 AD):
-Rush Factory in Bombay for 844 gold. Not enough gold left to rush Factory in Delhi.

IBT:
-Bombay: Factory->Coal Plant
-Babylon captures Tyre, and Japan captures Tatung.

Turn 8 (1290 AD):
-Still not enough gold to rush the Factory in Delhi.

IBT:
-Something attacks and redlines a rifleman in Xinjian.

Turn 9 (1295 AD):
-Rome now has Commy and Indus.
-Rush the Factory in Delhi for 700 gold.
-Medicine is due next turn, but I cannot save money on research by turning the slider down.

IBT:
-France and Babylon sign an MPP. France then declares war on Persia.
-Persia requests TM trade. I decline.
-We have Medicine, set research to Electricity. If the next player wants to, this can be changed to Sanitation, Espionage, or the Corporation.
-Delhi: Factory->Coal Plant
-Rome starts US.
-News on the Persia-Babylon war: Babylon captured Eridu (which was once theirs anyway) and Sardis, but Persia recaptured Sardis.

Turn 10 (1300 AD):
-Rush Coal Plant in Bombay for 296 gold.

End Turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie6.JPG
End Turn Notes:
-Bombay should start US after it finishes its Coal Plant.
-We have a monopoly on Medicine.
-Babylon is beating the crap out of Persia, and Persia might have more problems now that France is also at war with them.
-Get some popcorn and see what happens during the AI wars.
-We are in desperate need of a DOW from China.
-I have once again forgotten to rename the save to "religious SG" :crazyeye:
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/Gandhi_of_the_Indians_1300_AD.SAV)

Looks Good,

The Only Reason to build a coal plant in Bombay was to speed up US and TOE or Hoover's. Building Coal plants in the other cities is just wasteful if we are going for Hoovers because we end up selling them after Hoovers and we have to deal with the pollution factors.

Did Babs or China start US during your set? I see Rome was mentioned.

I think we have time for Sanit. before Elec. -> SciMeth.

Preturn
Only changed research to Sanitation then notice Planet of the Apes is on the History channel… hit Enter

IBT
Bombay Coal Plant->US in 13 @ 1 shortage

1 – 1305 A.D.
Upgrade all 10 Muskets for 400g
Railroaders take a break to clean up Pollution in East Bend

IBT
Persia lets us know Fur for Gems trade is up, have to sweeten the offer to him
He gives Furs and 16g, we give Gems and WM

2 – 1310 A.D.
MM Madras and East Bend for an extra 11g, Coal Plants due next turn

IBT
Madras Coal Plant->Cavalry
East Bend Coal Plant->Cannon

3 – 1315 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
Rome and China sign peace…Rome declares on China :crazyeye:
East Bend Cannon->Cannon

4 – 1320 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
Delhi Coal Plant->Coliseum (Prebuild for Hospital)
West Side Coal Plant->Coliseum (same)
Madras Cavalry->Cavalry

5 – 1325 A.D.
China, Rome, and Babylon know Electricity
More Pollution to clear
Sanitatin in 1, crank science down

IBT
Nothing

6 – 1330 A.D.
Rush Hospital in Delhi, East Bend and Madras
Switch West Side to Hospital, due on city growth in 4
Lost Dye and Incense deals
Trades:
Medicine to China for Electricity, WM, 15g, 67gpt
Medicine to Babylon for Incense, WM, 146g, 62gpt
Medicine to Rome for Dyes, WM, 257g, 48gpt
Medicine to Persia for WM, 56g, 23gpt
Medicine to France for WM, 70g, 22gpt (all their gold)
Zulu can’t afford it (9 measly gold)
Gems to Rome for 24gpt
Once I traded Medicine to China nobody would part with communism, not even straight up even straight up
Set Research at 100% to Scientific Method now due in 6 at 240gpt

IBT
Delhi Hospital->Coliseum
Madras Hospital->Rifle
East Bend Hospital->Rifleman

7 – 1335 A.D.
We are trading for every luxury except the following, should watch for these trades each turn.
Japan has extra Dyes
Babylon has extra Spices
Rome has extra Ivory
Notice Statue of Zeus and (the name escapes me) the Wonder that produces Ancient Cavalry are not available in Vanilla.

IBT
Zulu and Persia sign peace

8 – 1340 A.D.
Only Rome is working on US, due in 27 turns
We get a palace expansion

IBT
Madras Rifleman->Wealth
East Bend Rifleman->Wealth

9 – 1345 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
Delhi Coliseum->Wealth
West Side Hospital->Coliseum

10 – 1350 A.D.
Nothing

Rome and China are up Communism and Corporation but down Sanitation. Babylon is only up Communism and down Sanitation.
Universal Suffrage is due in 4.
Scientific Method due in 2 at 282gpt
I think we took one tile from China Northeast of Madras from a cultural expansion, it isn’t Railroaded yet.
That’s pretty much it.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_Cyllus__1350_AD.SAV

OK i got will play in the next day or so.

Pre-turn:
Trade Sanitation to Babylon for Corp and Cash
To Rome for GPT deal and Cash he would not give up Commie except for a lot of cash.
Trade Sanitation and Corporation to China for Commie
Change all Cities to Police station except Bombay.
Lower Sci down Still in 2 turns

Turn 1 (1335AD):
Some Pollution Clean up.

IBT: Zulu want a MA against China (pass):(

Turn 2 (1360AD):
Sci. Method is in. Set to Espionage in 100% in 5 turns.

Turn 3 (1365AD):
Worker Moves

IBT: Rome and China Make Peace

Turn 4 (1370AD):
Madras PS -> TOE
Bombay US -> Hospital
Delhi PS -> Cav
EB PS -> Cav
WS PS -> Coll.

IBT: Zulu and Babylon Sign MPP.
Babylon declares War on China.

Turn 5 (1375AD):
Rush Hospital in Bombay.

Turn 6 (1380AD):
Bombay Hospital -> PS
Delhi Cav -> Cav
EB Cav-> Cav
Loose Salt from China Don’t Renew.

Turn 7 (1385AD):
Espionage in set to Steel in 8.
Hoping I can Trade Sci Method for RP when the Time comes.
Madras has 8 turns left on TOE. May need to slow it down to keep even with the Research rate.
Trade Espionage to Babylon for 58 gpt, 308gp Cash and Salt.
WS Coll -> Cav
Rush PS Bombay.

Turn 8 (1390AD):
Bombay PS-> Coll

Turn 9 (1395AD):
Delhi Cav-> Cav

Turn 10 (1400AD):
EB Cav -> Intel. Ag.
Bombay Coll -> Battle Med (Pre-Build Hoovers)
WS Cav -> Cav

Brundisium is at 1.7 Flip risk
Rome just got RP this turn and wants too much for it.:eek: (Wait till it gets cheaper.)

Here is the Order: 1st. Sci -> 2nd. Production
So we will learn Steel then we can set to AT
TOE will complete the same turn Learn AT then Electronics.
Off we go to Refining
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4462/n911hs5.jpg

The Save: 147281

Okay Got it. from the looks of that screenie, Persia is dying. Do dead civs have any effect on trading prices?

Finished. Will post after lunch.

The Good:
-We are the smartest and richest guys in the world.
-We have RR on almost every tile.
-We have Intell Agency and ToE... Obviously... and will have Hoover next turn.
-Persia is still alive.
-China is Communist. Perhaps they will be more agressive now... :mischief:

The Bad:
-The RNG totally hates me. I tried planting spies, and was successful in China, then tried planting Zulu and they declared war!! :gripe: [pissed] I re-tried planting spy in Zulu 2 more times in following turns and failed both times. Damn you, RNG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
-Zulu and France embargoed us.

The Ugly:
-Pollution!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

The RNG totally hates me. I tried planting spies, and was successful in China, then tried planting Zulu and they declared war!! :gripe: [pissed] I re-tried planting spy in Zulu 2 more times in following turns and failed both times. The odds weren't really with you once you'd failed...
Plant Spy
Regular spy 50%
Veteran spy 60%
If a spy plant fails you will get a flag saying so. You cant plant a spy when flagged. There is a chance of 1/3 for the flag to disappear each turn. (From Oystein's article on espionage missions (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/espionage_missions.php).)

Good luck in the war!

Okay note to self: If plant spy fails, wait a few turns before trying again! :blush: And we probably won't even fight the Zulu, and will sign peace as soon as they will listen.

Da Set:

Pre-Turn (1400 AD):
-Current Wars: Zulu, Japan, and Babylon at war with China, and Babylon and France are at war with Persia.
-Rome is the only civ with RP, and they put on unreasonable orice on it.
-Hit enter.

IBT:
-Delhi: Cav->Ironclad

Turn 1 (1405 AD):
:sleep:

IBT:
-Furs/Gems deal with Persia ends. New deal: Furs and 76 gold for Gems.
-Japan demands Industrialization. I tell him to stick it.

Turn 2 (1410 AD):
-What's this? The Zulu are in Anarchy! The other AI's governments: France, Japan, and Rome are in Democracy, Babylon is in Republic, Persia is in Monarchy, and China is in Communism.

IBT:
-Delhi: Ironclad->CF(Coastal Fortress)
-WS: Ironclad->CF

Turn 3 (1415 AD):
:coffee:

IBT:
-France requests MPP, RoP. I decline.
-Babylon requests WM trade. I decline.
-Zulu declares war on Persia.
-Japan and China sign peace.
-Delhi: CF->Cannon

Turn 4 (1420 AD):
-Babylon now has RP, and Rome now has Sci Meth (:gripe:)
-Babylon and Rome both have Sci Meth, so I can't use it trade for RP. The price for it is 2354 gold. That's too much- I'll wait a turn for us to get Steel and use that to trade.
-Turn Sci down to 10%, Steel still in 1.

IBT:
-We have Steel. Set research to Atomic Theory.
-Delhi: Cannon->Cav
-Madras completes the ToE. Get AT and Electronics as free techs. Set research to Refining, due in 8 at 100%.
-Madras: ToE->Cannon
-WS: CF->Cannon

Turn 5 (1425 AD):
-Set Bombay to Hoovers, due in 6.
-Trade Steel to Babylon for RP, 37 gold, and 39 gpt.
-Trade Steel to Rome for 1135 gold, 45 gpt, and WM.
-We have Rubber outside East Bend! :woohoo: :banana:
-Upgrade 12 Rifles to Infantry for 240 gold.
-Upgrade 13 Cannons to Artillery for 1040 gold.
-Zulu are out of Anarchy and in Monarchy.

IBT:
-We lose our supplies of Incense and Dyes. Hey, it rhymes!

Turn 6 (1430 AD):
-Lol, a Leigonary is guarding a Roman City (and probably more than one!)! :rotfl:

IBT:
-I had an Ironclad in Rome's territory (which is why I know about the Leigon guard), and they asked it to leave. Sure, he was just passing through...
-Delhi: Cav->Arty
-Madras: Arty->Cav
-EB: Intelligence Agency->Arty

Turn 7 (1435 AD):
-Suceed in attempt to plant spy in China.
-Fail in attempt to plant spy in Zululand, and they declare war!!!!!! [pissed]
-Decide to stop planting while I'm ahead.

IBT:
-WS: Arty->Ironclad

Turn 8 (1440 AD):
-Attempt to plant spy in Zululand again, fail again.

IBT:
-France and Zulu embargo us.
-Babylon captures Gordium. Persia now has no Iron, and less cities than we do!
-Delhi: Arty->Ironclad
-Pollution strikes Madras. Since every worker is on an unroaded tile (all roaded tiles were RRed also), it will take a turn to get to it.
-Madras: Cav->Arty
-EB: Cav->Arty

Turn 9 (1445 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Pollution hits Delhi and East Bend.

Turn 10 (1450 AD):
-Another failed plant spy attempt. Curse the RNG!

-End Turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie7.JPG
-End Turn Notes:

-Clean that Pollution!
-Hoovers comes in next turn. Sell the Coal Plants.
-Sign Peace with the Zulu as soon as they'll listen, unless there is some clear reason not to.
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_1450_AD.SAV)

Looks Good.

Protect those Workers on the border. Zulu is not that Far and if they have a ROP.
I might keep the War if they are sending a steady stream of units for leader fishing.

Well Hoover due in 1 then we can sell the Coal Plants, should reduce that sick amount of Pollution. Will put Infantry on those worker asap as well. Can't play tonight. Tomorrow midday I will. How about signing ROP with China to put use to those Cavalry that will be obsolete soon enough. We could easily pick Zulu off if they're trickling through China without an ROP.

Guys, the Zulu are at war with China... :lol: :p

@Choxorn
Ahhh! this may explain the lack of units.
@Cyllus
I have been burned by ROP before. I rarely sign them anymore.
We really don't gain anything from Razing Zulu Lands then other then helping out China or Japan.
It is War so other then Leader Fishing nothing to really be gained.

Yeah, thought about it more and ROP wouldn't really do anything. Zulu won't be a threat at all. Maybe they'll sign peace with China and sign MA against us with them :devil: That's be sweet.

@Cyllus: I was thinking the same thing, but don't wait too long to sign peace or WW will kill us.
Hey guys, since those Chinese cities are absolutely refusing to flip, maybe we should initiate some propaganda? :mischief:

@ Choxorn
WW is only an issue when you loose a lot of troops and/or have lots of troops in enemy lands (or loose a city). None of these has happened yet so no WW until those things happen.

Intresting Idea on the Propaganda have to look at the costs. Of course this won't work if they are in Demo. But they have been at war along time so I doubt they are in Demo.

They are Commy.

Wierd, I posted my turnset last night and now it's gone. I probably messed up. ahh well, here it be.

Preturn
We need happiness, buy Dyes from Babylon for 130g and Incense from Rome for 174g
Hit enter

IBT
Delhi Ironclad->Galleon
Madras Cavalry->Cavalry
West Side Ironclad->Galleon
East Bend Cavalry->Cavalry

1 – 1455 A.D.
Rid our lands of Pollution
Sell the Coal Plants for 20g each
Trade Atomic theory to Rome for 1167g (all of it) and 271gpt (he makes over 300) because I can’t resist. We’re running away with this.

IBT
Nothing

2 – 1460 A.D.
Just move Ironclads toward Zululand and turn science down, due in 1.

IBT
Babylon and China sign peace… Babylon declares on China (GOOD THING TOO)
Refining in, Combustion in 8 at 359gpt

3 – 1465 A.D.
Well we have rubber but no oil
Civs with oil – France(3), Zulu(1), Japan(2), Babylon(1)
Found out IBT that Zulu has MPP with Babylon, retreat Ironclads, we have deals with Babylon.


IBT
Nothing

4 – 1470 A.D.
Our lands are fully improved

IBT
Babylon and Persia sign peace
Zulu and China sign peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5 – 1475 A.D.
Change all builds to Infantry besides Bombay (Battlefield Madicine)
Zulu is willing to negotiate

IBT
Nothing
6 – 1480 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
Saltpeter deal with Babylon ends, don’t renew

7 – 1485 A.D.
Madras, East Bend, Delhi Infantry->Infantry

IBT
Nothing

8 – 1490 A.D.
Bombay Battlefield Medicine->Infantry
West Side Infantry->Infantry

IBT
Zulu Cavalry enter our territory

9 – 1495 A.D.
Madras, East Bend, Delhi Infantry->Wealth
Zulu and Babylon no longer have MPP, that’s good
Bombard and kill 3 R-Cavalry, no promotions
Zulu will take peace straight up, I don’t. This is where we’d need n to specify what’s up. Guess it’s up to us now. If they contact us do we need to talk? I dunno. Would love them to drag China in!

IBT
Bombay Infantry->Wealth

10 – 1500 A.D.
Nothing

We have 2 Ironclads exploring the north, that will fill in the map.
There is are 2 more Ironclads heading up either side of our coast to Zululand.
Our military is Strong to everyone but Rome and Babylon, to them we are average.
I turned the science slider down, Combustion in 1 turn.
Watch Zulu in case they sign MPP with someone we have deals with.
Premium Palace spot is actually East Bend according to Civassist. Every city is set on Wealth atm.
We have 30 Cavalry, 30 Infantry, 18 Artys, 4 Ironclads, and 15 workers Fortified between Bombay and Delhi.

This is where Zulu came in to our territory, they don not have ROP with China.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Zulu_attacking.JPG

The save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_Cyllus__1500_AD.SAV

Pre-turn:
Finish Planting Spies. The Only attempt I do not make is to Rome because they have that Huge GPT payment to us.
We now have spies in Japan, Zulu, and Babylon. Failed Plants in France and Persia.
Check out The Cost of Propaganda. (also do some Reading on it)
Cheapest is ~300 for Hangchow size 2.
Most Expensive 1700 for Canton and Tsingtao
Only One I am interested in considering is Brundisium for 1300
We need a ¾ vote meaning 6 Ciztens to Vote for us. (some debate whether it is better to do in Commie or Anarchy.) Wait one turn to consider.

Now on to the game.
Issue Orders to Move to China.
Change EB to Worker

IBT:
Persia and Zulu make Peace

Turn 1 (1505AD):
Combustion in set to Mass Prod in 7 turns.
EB Worker -> Wealth (worker Joins Bombay)
WS Inf -> Wealth
Kill 1 Zulu Cav and our Cav goes Elite for our first one. (all units will be redlined before I attack them unless otherwise noted.) :)
Propaganda Decided we have the cash I will try it once during my set. Flipping is 1.8%
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5114/brundizz1.jpg
Might try it once more if they are ever in Anarchy or with a lower pop. Otherwise it probably is a waste of Cash.

IBT: Renew Fur and Gem Deal with Persia with 120 gp

Turn 2 (1510AD):
Tell Mao to move his troops.
EB Worker

IBT: China Offer MPP (Passed)

Turn 3 (1515AD):
EB Worker -> Arty (join Worker to WS)

Turn 4 (1520AD):
Sell Medicine to Japan for some Cash and Wines.

Turn 5 (1525AD):
Kill 1 Zulu Rifle with eCav (2-0)
Rome is working on Electronics. Would only offer a small pittance for it.
Could Sell Electronics or Refining to Babs for 51 gpt I decline.
Give the Boot Order to China.

Turn 6 (1530AD):
Lower Sci still in 2 turns
Yup Rome learns Electronics
Decide to Sell to Babs before Rome does. 53 gpt Salt and WM
Sell Electricity to Persia for a Good price of 24 gpt (let just hope they can make the Payments:lol: )
EB Arty -> Wealth

IBT: China Signs MPP with France
Then Declare WAR on Persia

Turn 7 (1535AD):
Zulu Send in 4 Cavs
Kill all Four with no Promotions (6-0)

IBT: France Declares on Babylon

Turn 8 (1540AD):
Mass Prod. in set to MT in 7

IBT: France and Persia have PT
Embargo Between France and Zulu Ends

Turn 9 (1545AD):
Clean up some pollution.

IBT: China makes peace with Babylon and promptly redeclares:crazyeye:

Turn 10 (1550AD):
I promptly Kill 2 Zulu Cavs No Promotions. (8-0)
Buy Dyes and Incense from Babylon and Rome for 175 GP each.

I See that Brundi drops to size 4 so I make another attempt on Propaganda for 680 gp. (lower Pop is a better chance instead of needing 6 only need 3 to join our cause. But Falied.

Big Deal ends soon with Rome. So you can try for spy plants on Rome, and France now. I would forget about Persian since they are not long for this world.
I would save Flight for our Last Tech to Research to keep the Colossus benefit going as long as possible. (Ideally when the Rome Deals ends sell them Combustion for large GPT to keep them broke.)
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8698/n911em4.jpg

The Save: 147580

I dig that propaganda stuff, I'm RARELY in a position to bother attempting such things. We go (8-0) with only a single promotion to Elite, bummer.
BTW I told Mao to get his worker out of our territory my entire turnset and he stayed polite the whole time while never removing the worker :mad: punk.

Choxorn messaged me that he "Got it" and will post his turnset Friday :confused:

Yeah ! I got the same PM.

I only told Mao to beat it when he had boats in our water. I generally ignored the workers.

Of course I sent it to both of you- I would want you both to know.
Sorry I haven't gotten to it yet. My Mom is keeping me from having more than a little computer time. If I don't post a set by Monday, skip me.

Okay, I finished. I can't post it now- I'm not even supposed to be on the computer. :mischief:

Some stuff that happened:
-MA's and MPP's signed, War declared.
-Babylon is destructive. They razed several French cities over the course of the turn.
-In the wake of the destroyed cities, Persia founded a city.
-The Iron source near Bombay exhausted. :sad: I had to buy a new Iron from Babylon, and I also Bought Oil from them. :)

Okay, Da Set:

Pre-Turn (1550 AD):
-Plant a Spy in France.

IBT:
-Persia requests a TM trade. I decline.
-Zulu requests a PT. Sorry, but we want to gain something from this war. :devil:
-2 Zulu Cavalry suicide vs. Infantry in Madras.
-Pollution hits Bombay.
-The People plant some bushes in our Palace garden.
-Our Iron source is exhausted!
-Babylon destroys a French (ex-Persian) city. :eek:

Turn 1 (1555 AD):
-Trade Refining to Babylon for Iron, WM, and 14 gold. This might seem like an unfair trade, but they have extra oil, and now that they have Refining they can trade it! I buy it for 654 gold.
-Initiate propganda on Xinjian. Reason: It has Saltpeter wihtin it's borders- and Madras's if it's culture could expand that far. It fails. 512 gold down the drain.

IBT:
-Japan and Babylon MA against France.
-Rome and Babylon MA against China.
-France declares War on Rome (They triggered the MPP with China).
-Pollution hits Bombay again.
-Another French city is destroyed.

Turn 2 (1560 AD):
-D'oh! I forgot to clear the pollution last turn! :crazyeye:
-Clean Both of them.

IBT:
-Pollution hits WS.

Turn 3 (1565 AD):
-Clear the Pollution.

IBT:
-Madras starves (:confused:).

Turn 4 (1570 AD):
-Reduce Sci to 40%, MT still in 1.

IBT:
-We have MT. Set research to Radio, due in 10.
-Pollution hits Delhi.

Turn 5 (1575 AD):
-Clear Pollution.
-Sell Combustion to Rome for 1147 gold, 205 gpt, and WM. We now have a full WM.

IBT:
-Japan requests a WM trade. I decline.
-Get a Palace expansion.
-Another French city bites the dust.

Turn 6 (1580 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Babylon asks for TM trade. I decline.
-Zulu and Rome MA against France.

Rest comes later. Now I have to get off computer.

IF you Bought Oil Start Building Tanks. Battleships and Subs.

The reason Madras starved. Zulu Cavs caused you to move people from a food tile. You miust rset the worker to the tile after you kill the intruder.

Plus you want to kill the Zulu intuder with Cavs with Elites when possible to get leaders don't allow them to suicide against Inf.

I failed to realize that I could build new stuff with Oil until the end of the turn. :crazyeye: And I couldn't get the Cavs before they reached the city- they suddenly came out of Chinese territory and hit Madras on the same turn.

Turn Set Continued:

Turn 7 (1585 AD):
:sleep:

IBT:
-France and China MA vs Persia.
-Rome captures a French city. I guess they are less destructive than Babylon.

Turn 8 (1590 AD):
:coffee:

IBT:
-France requests an MPP and RoP. I decline, of course (even if the variant didn't say I couldn't, I would have done that, as they are at war with everyone but us and China!!).
-Japan and Babylon sign an MPP.
-Rome and Zulu sign an MPP. :sad:
-Pollution hits WS.
-China declares war on Japan. Must have been the MPP...

Turn 9 (1595 AD):
-Rome has Radio. If I wanted to, I could trade MP for it and 783 gold, but I don't think it's worth it, since I don't want someone who could easily become our enemy (due to their MPP with the Zulu) to have Battleships!

IBT:
-The Zulu send 3 Cavs into our territory, which go right past Madras. Maybe they are headed for our workers?
-The French recapture the city Rome took, only to have another city destroyed (probably by Babylon).
-Persia founds Bactra in the empty territory created by the razed cities.

Turn 10 (1600 AD):
-Use Artillery to Bombard the 3 Cavalry to redline (just in case the RNG hates me, as usual), then take them out with our cavs.
-I forgot to clear the Pollution last turn. Do so now.
-Okay, why did I forget to switch our cities becuase we have oil? Set our lanclocked cities to the production of Tanks, Delhi to a Battleship, and WS to a Sub. Okay, I admit it, I only did this 5 minutes ago to save Cyllus the trouble. :crazyeye:

End Turn Screenie:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/EndTurnScreenie8.JPG
End Turn Notes:
-France and China are rogue states right now, at war with everyone except each other and us. Wait, no, that's innacurate, China isn't at war with the Zulu.
-Hey, does the Sub bug count as *our* doing? :mischief:
-If we're lucky, China and Zulu will MA vs us, then we can sign peace with the Zulu, then destroy Shanghai, Brundisium, Xinjian, Tsingtao, and Tientsin, 5 cities I would very much like gone. Just make sure we don't have any deals with France.
-We want to delay Flight as long as possible. Does that mean we should research the almost useless Amphibious War tech (Not counting Flight and Advanced Flight, which requires Flight, it is the only tech in the Industrial age we haven't yet researched)?
-Da Save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85723/ReligiousSG_1600_AD.SAV)

Zulu must have a ROP with China now to Attack Madras Un seen.

No I meant to Research Radio. Then Flight Forget those Optinal techs.
The Reason The Cavs avoid Madras Now is Because we have an Elite Inf. they will avoid that city now.

As for the MPP Rome with Zulu as longs as we do NOT go into the Zulu Terr. Rome will stay out of the War.

We could Moblize for a bit then make peace with Zulu to end it. But I don't think we need too. It is just an option since we have a limited OIL supply to quickly build up our Tanks.

I don't see why we would need mobilization with our current production speed... :crazyeye: And unless the F4 screen is lying, The Zulu and China do NOT have an RoP. Madras is 2 tiles from the border, so they do NOT need it to attack like that.

Posting a "Got it", gonna play now. Thought about that Mobilization thing too but we have so much gold we should be able to re-up the deal when it runs out.

Hey, like I asked earlier, would it be illegal to use the sub bug to get at war with China? :mischief:

As for the Sub bug.
It is a Bug thus an exploit for starting a war.
I just like Subs For seeing the AI in our Terr. to give the Boot Order.

So, I take it that means our subs cannot leave our territory?

No! They Can Leave! But I ask Why? What do we gain?
But to Park a Sub in AI harbors in hopes that they will run over it to start a War to exploit the bug is what I had in mind we should not do.

Okay, maybe we should make it that subs can't enter the territory of someone we aren't at war with. ;)

Preturn
Change Delhi and West Side to tanks, fire East Bend’s scientist for a taxman, no biggie.
Hit enter

IBT
China and Persia sign peace
Zulu declares on China… :mad: guess they won't be buying the Gracious Chinese in.

1 – 1605 A.D.
Propaganda Brundisium, no good

IBT
Re-Up the furs for gems deal with Persia; we need to throw in 136g
Babylon and Rome sign MPP
China brings Persia into war against Zulu, big deal
Madras, Delhi, Bombay, East Bend Tank->Tank

2 – 1610 A.D.
Zulu will only offer 77g for peace, no deal

IBT
China and Persia sign MPP
Persia declares on Japan
West Side Tank->Tank

3 – 1615 A.D.
Turn down Science because Radio is due in 1.

IBT
Persia declares on Rome
Madras, Delhi, Bombay, East Bend Tank->Tank

4 – 1620 A.D.
Trade deals end so…
Atomic Theory to Japan for Wines, 55g, 13gpt, WM
Atomic Theory to Japan for Silks, 205g, 10gpt, WM
Purchase Ivory from Rome for 261g
Could sell Mass Production to Rome for lots of gold but I don’t, we don’t need it.
We now have 2 unhappy, 2 content, and tons of happy citizens.
Try Propaganda on Brundisium again to no avail. Trying this when we get over 10k

IBT
Our Gems sale to Rome expires, I don’t re-up it yet.

5 – 1625 A.D.
We get a Palace expansion
Painstakingly move 12 workers one by one to clear up pollution and decide in the meantime that vanilla stinks. Maybe I don’t want a war with China anymore :(
Decide to hang on to our spare Gems
There are fireworks around every Metropolis except West Side

IBT
Zulu and France sign peace
Rome offers ROP and MPP to our “Puny” civilization, I decline.
Every Metropolis produces Tank->Tank
I let Saltpeter deal with China ends


6 – 1630 A.D.
Vanilla is getting tiring, 12 more workers one at a time to clear up pollution.
Trade Corporation to Persia for 94g and 13gpt

IBT
Babylon signs peace with France, this does not bode well for Persia since Babylon was keeping France busy.

7 – 1635 A.D.
Ok this is getting ridiculous, pollution on a mountain… 12 more worker moves
Time to try Propaganda again but I don’t seems hopeless

IBT
Madras, East Bend, Delhi, Bombay Tank->Tank
East Bend and Bombay are at capacity (60 and 86 uncorrupted shields respectively)

8 – 1640 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
West Sieeede Tank->Tank

9 - 1645 A.D.
Nothing

IBT
Our source of Coal is exhausted! There is coal to buy from a couple civs if we need it someday.
Madras, Delhi, Bombay, and East Bend Tank->Tank
4 Babylonian Ironclads move into view toward Teinsin
Dye and Incense deals end

10 – 1650 A.D.
Purchase Dyes from Babylon for 239g
Investigate Rome
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/Rome.JPG
Purchase Dyes from Rome for 239g also, weird. I kept the gems for us; don’t want Rome getting any happier

Again, the picture stays the same

The save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106808/ReligiousSG_1650_AD.SAV

I think Caeser needs to learn the value of a little guy called a tax collector. Seriously, there are 12 clowns in Rome. We might need Coal and Iron if our railroads are pillaged.

I got it!

@ Cyllus
Use the "J" Key moves all the Workers (or the same unit) from one tile to the tile you want. Or just use Shift "p" which also auto the worker to Clean Pollution Only. Once all the Pollution is Clean up the worker waits for more orders. So how I do it is wake a stack of workers and just keep hitting Shift “p” until all the pollution is clean up. If I need more workers wake another stack.

Coal, Iron, and Salt I would only get them when and if we need them otherwise it no good to us paying for it.
If we ever NEED to trade for Salt I think we are doom at that point.
Coal and Iron are only going to be useful when we need to rerail after a pillage as Choxorn stated.

Ships should always be stacked.
More in depth of subs, They are pointless.
Cons:
They are too slow to keep up with your ship stacks or chase enemy ships.
Pros:
To clear lanes for my ship stacks to keep myself from running into another sub (solved by always moving a Battleship first in the direction you are going.)
Knowing when other subs are also in your sea tiles. (Sentry Duty)

Nuke Subs are a little different but not much.

My feeling on our Navy is since we are not going to go invade anyone. In our 2 port cities 1 Sub for Locating other subs. 2 maybe 3 Battleships to Kill any enemy vessels stacks that do approach or little nation for self defense. Other wise they can be forted in the city until they are needed. And to be honest I would almost rather they do land troops. More leader chances fo

I re-read the last couple of turn sets.
Babylon is becoming a world power. However, they are behind in techs. which is a good thing. No more lux to them.
Rome will slow down as soon as he hits the Mod techs.
Onto our next tech. I am leaning towards Computers first.
Reason, SETI in Delhi and research labs to help our rates in the next age. Then to Fission for the UN and our 2nd wonder.
If someone gets Fission first we can then steal it or trade it to start on UN which we should be able to knock out faster then them.
However, I think Gold is now going to become more important for Negative research and stealing so no more Propaganda attempts.
If by some mircale we get a leader now I think we will need to save it for Seti or UN otherwise an Army or SS parts.
THoughts???
I will get to this later tonight.

Negative research? We make a considerable profit at 100% Science!! :rotfl: True, that is only because we get gpt payments from the rest of the world, but still. it's pretty cool. My thoughts on MA wonders: UN first. If anyone else gets it, someone may win by diplomatic victory. Of course, it probably doesn't matter- we can build them both fast enough anyway. :crazyeye:

Pre-turn:
Assess our Military we now have 25 Obsolete Cavs and 21 Tanks. (121 GPT on upkeep) Time to Disband the Cavs Except the Elite one.
Lower Sci to 80% Still in 3.
Change WS to Sub Disband one Iron Clad Sub in one.
Change Delhi to Sub Disband 3 Cavs sub in one.
Change EB to Worker
See Oil is going to End next turn so I Disband 3 Cavs to Bombay and Madras to Get Tanks in one turn. So I can get another Set of Tanks in.

IBT: Persian Declares on Babylon

Turn 1 (1655AD):
Delhi Sub -> Battleship
WS Sub -> Battleship
EB Worker -> Tank
Bombay Tank -> Tank
Madras Tank -> Tank
I let Oil and Iron Expire for the Time being. We have a lot of Tanks now.

IBT: Rome and France make peace.

Turn 2 (1660AD):
Lower Sci still 1.

Turn 3 (1665AD):
Flight in Set to Computers in 12 turns Its a little cheaper then Fission. (plus Rome and Babylon are still 3 techs from this Age.)
Bombay Tank -> Wealth
EB Tank -> Worker
Madras Tank -> Airport (Disband 2 Cavs in 2.)

IBT: China and Babs make Peace Then Redeclare
China Declares on France

Turn 4 (1670AD):
Rome working on Mass Production
EB Worker who Joins WS -> Airport (Disband 5 Cavs to get in 1.)

Turn 5 (1675AD):
Sell Flight to Rome for 224 gpt and Iron
Sell Flight to Babs for Oil and Cash.
WS Battleship -> Battleship
EB Airport -> Bomber
Delhi Battleship -> Battleship
Madras Airport -> Bomber
Disband 4 Cavs for quicker Bombers

IBT: Persia is no more.

Turn 6 (1680AD):
EB and Madras bomber -> Bomber
Bombay to Palace. This Will allow Delhi to Start a pre-build for SETI via the palace.

IBT: China and Zulu Sign PT

Turn 7 (1685AD):
ZZZ

Turn 8 (1690AD):
EB and Madras Bomber -> Bomber (4 cavs disbanded)
Zulu Cavs approaches.

IBT: Rome Learns MP

Turn 9 (1695AD):
EB and Madras Bomber -> Bomber (4 Cavs disbanded)
2 Zulu Cavs dead 1 Elite Cav and 1 Vet Tank no promotions
Delhi Battleship -> Arty

Turn 10 (1700AD):
Bombay Palace -> Wealth
WS Battleship -> Battleship
Madras and EB Bombers -> Bombers (4 cavs disbanded last of them).

Unit upkeep is 100gpt. I don’t think we want to go to much more then this.
So after this set of Bombers which would give us 10 this is plenty.
When Delhi Completes next turn you can switch it to the Palace and then to SETI when the time comes. OR you can switch to Palace now but It will take some MM on your part to make sure it does not complete before Computers is done.
Make sure once Computers is in to Upgrade all Inf. This will suck up a lot of cash.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7763/n911lm0.jpg

The Save: 147984

Okay Got it. Can't play now as I barely have any time. I will get to it as soon as I can (you may have to wait a day or two :()

Ok the set is done. Can't post it right now, but, I have a spoiler for a long-awaited event. Guess what it is, then open the spoiler.

If you guessed "Brundisium culture flipping to us" You were right!!!! :woohoo: