Hello

I love this mod, but in my game the AI never built a unit better then a pirate or hunter or warrior [usually warriors]

Is this mod meant for multiplayer only? I was playing on noble difficulty, 230 turns had passed.. 3 continents with 3 people on them each, standard map genereated by smartmap ffh

Hello

I love this mod, but in my game the AI never built a unit better then a pirate or hunter or warrior [usually warriors]

Is this mod meant for multiplayer only? I was playing on noble difficulty, 230 turns had passed.. 3 continents with 3 people on them each, standard map genereated by smartmap ffh

Yeah, the AI is not yet up to all the changes made in this mod. Try playing it again with the skill setting turned up two notches. That helps some.

how many times has that happened to you?

It happened to me a couple of times, but when I started a new game everything went smoothly, and I was on noble.

Hello

I love this mod, but in my game the AI never built a unit better then a pirate or hunter or warrior [usually warriors]

Is this mod meant for multiplayer only? I was playing on noble difficulty, 230 turns had passed.. 3 continents with 3 people on them each, standard map genereated by smartmap ffh

I do almost all my testing on noble difficulty and have definitly seen the ai building units much higher than hunters and warriors (they build all the units). Im not sure why they would have been so handicapped in your game.

Were you plaing on settler or something?

Any mini mods loaded?

no. and in fact, on my own home continent, my score was more then double my 2 neighbors scores [i dont remember their names, a paladin type dude and a dude obsessed with dieing]. i was really surprised to see this, usually I never do that well against the AI. i just abandoned the game since it was silly running around smashing warriors with steel golems. but I had fun building up my empire.

In my current game I saw some AI behaviour I was impressed with: Assassinating my casters with shadows, Casting some AoE spell on my stacks (Ring of Fire iirc, although it looked like they took combat 1-5 before fire promotion), keeping a gargoyle and Nullstone goelm with its biggest stacks.

I have to agree with the original poster to a certain extent...

I play at the Monarch level, and I can definitely say that in a Marathon game even at the yr 1300, there are still some civs which are defending their cities with warriors, hunters, and the occasional archer. It really makes you wonder what they have been building.

If you are playing a raging barb game, these civs, which, again, seem to be more focused on expanding than defending, are easily mowed down.

Yes, there will be a few civs that will build some of the stronger units, but even at Monarch they seem a bit behind, and there are other civs who just seem to have lost the plot totally.

The focus of the AI really needs work as far as the expansion at all costs theme is too prevalent IMO.

Hmm, Sarisin has a good point--the game speed may be determinative. Techs are more expensive here, and if you specialize well before the AI does, then you will have powerful units against basic ones for quite a while longer than on standard game speed.
Try adding in another AI or two, they usually trade like crazy once they can.

Playing on normal speed, I see some Civs (Basium most notably) having tier-2 units by year 200... other Civs are much, much slower. It's better now than it was, but I think a tech tree revamp such that military units are included on paths that the AI will research anyway would help them out the most. But I've already voiced that opinion.

Playing on normal speed, I see some Civs (Basium most notably) having tier-2 units by year 200... other Civs are much, much slower. It's better now than it was, but I think a tech tree revamp such that military units are included on paths that the AI will research anyway would help them out the most. But I've already voiced that opinion.

I agree and I play only Marathon setting games.

In my last game, it was down to me, the raging barbs, and Auric Ulvin.

I was having fun defending against the Tier IV barbs as they sent waves of Lizard Beastmasters and Druids.

I finally decided to just end it and went out to destroy the Illians.

Defending their four cities were: Hunters, Archers, and Warriors.

It was the yr. 1650!!!

Game over.

There's not much point tinkering with the AI right now - it'd just have to be reworked again and again, as each version changes the game significantly.

There's not much point tinkering with the AI right now - it'd just have to be reworked again and again, as each version changes the game significantly.

You might be right, but this problem has existed since the first version of FFH. Maybe it is there in Vanilla too, I don't know.

Actually, the great thing about this mod is that there are many other ways to play and still have fun. I just think that when it comes to raging barb games, that's where the AI civs really cannot compete.

It probably is better to use multiplayer...

I'm currently playing as the Luirchip. I'm doing a good job in a pangea map, prince, small map and 8 civs.

I'm second in points, the first are the elohim with more than 1000 points ahead of me. Their army is constantly been renewed. I've seen their warriors upgrade to archers and now they are sending crosbows and maceman all around the place.

It is true than other nations are not doing so good and their units suck, but the AI is upgrading their units if/when they can.

I'm killing even druids with my HN units, also assasins and upgraded hunters.

Version 16 e
1Doviello Horsemen are correctly linked.
2Only Govannon can train spells (no more battlemaster golem weirdness).
3You can no longer duplicate great commanders (the AI was using this to generate 100's of units, causing a lot of late game slowness).
omg, teaching the ai bug abuse is very, very, important...

I'm currently playing the Shaeims (How is that spelled?) on Noble, it's about year 350, and I have wiped out most of my surrounding neighbours with hordes of ritualists summoning nightmares. The AI's have been defending with 95% warriors and a couple of hunters, it has been way too easy. And they did have techs to build stronger units then that.

I'm currently playing the Shaeims (How is that spelled?) on Noble, it's about year 350, and I have wiped out most of my surrounding neighbours with hordes of ritualists summoning nightmares. The AI's have been defending with 95% warriors and a couple of hunters, it has been way too easy. And they did have techs to build stronger units then that.

It's Sheaim. Don't worry, it's probably the second-most misspelled Civ name in the mod, second only to the non-lunar Lanun.:mischief:

Try playing on prince. You will see some AIs upgrading their armies.

The problem to upgrade is that it cost too much money (unless they have the trait to upgrade at half cost). If those AIs are not doing a good job, they won't be able to upgrade their army, but only a few units (which won't matter).

Sometimes I found myself being ask to trade for carnivals (the tech that allows to build marketplace +3 gold) when I hava a high priority to research it. Maybe the AIs could be told to go for this tech and build the marketplace. More money --> more science (kind of) --> better units (upgraded or new)

I'm currently playing the Shaeims (How is that spelled?) on Noble, it's about year 350, and I have wiped out most of my surrounding neighbours with hordes of ritualists summoning nightmares. The AI's have been defending with 95% warriors and a couple of hunters, it has been way too easy. And they did have techs to build stronger units then that.

Also, might I suggest you select a longer game. For example, using the Marathon setting, you will not have access to summoning for quite awhile. But, you are right, the AI always seems to be a bit behind. I play at Monarch and it is the same story. But, I do enjoy the longer games more.

I have none of the problems listed (but generally I play with Monarch/Emperor and normal speed, the mod is slow by itself without needing slower speeds), actually I find that often the AI builds tier 2 units before I can, and most of the times building high tier units is just a matter of resources, since copper and iron are very rare.
Also I would play this mod with a single continent, I always play with highlands but balanced and inland sea also work well.

edit: note that in any game I play the elves always have huge armies with very up to date units. They are somehow overpowered IMO ^^

Hmmm.. Well I saw the funniest thing that I think emphasizes this. An Irrigated Mana node xD Though a few other AI's did build nodes I thought that was the funniest. Though I was playing on warlord and Varn Gosam was beating me in points at one point (then again he had a continent to himself ><) And Thessa is only like 500 away, which is still pretty big. Though I noticed Varn had longbowmen in his cities, which I guess isn't so bad. Though he launced no offensive or counter measures against me, the biggest fight back was like 2 rangers and a swordsman. =/ My Baron made very short work of them.

I really like this mod for its great ideas and because it's almost a total conversion in so many areas. However, the weak AI is really a big problem at the moment.

I've abandoned all of the few games I've tried so far quite early because it became clear that the AI would be no match. The biggest problem has always been to cope with the barbarians for long enough to build an army of Axes and a few Adepts, and from then on it was easy. The AI still had warriors and the like for defense, and the promoted axes leftover from the clashes with the barbarians made city raiding really easy.

In my last game Orthus was born just a few tiles north of my copper city. At first, he went for the copper before I could build Axes and Pyre Zombies, he took the city and I lost. On reload, he went for the other city so I had time to build a force. I abandoned the city, let him march in and then killed him with a few Zombies and Axes. The Axeman who finished him off instantly got to Combat V and took his weapon.

A few turns later I took my force of about 5 Axes and 2 Zombies and easily rolled over three cities of one of my opponents to the north. He only had Warriors for defense -- it was ridiculous. I had already build three or so Adepts and hooked up two mana nodes. I then abandoned the game because apparently there was no challenge.

This was on Monarch difficulty, and the biggest issue were the barbarians in the first 100 years. On higher difficulties I found the barbarians too nasty to deal with, so I'm not ready to play on ridiculous levels just so that the AI can compete somehow.

A lot of work has to go to the AI, and then this mod will rock on single player. I'm recognizing that it is not easy to make a good AI -- Blake, who's doing the improved AI for Vanilla and Warlords seems to be an exceptionally talented person, and still it seems a long way to go there to create a competitive AI. FFH is quite different from Warlords, so I guess the work needed here will be substantial as well.

Probably it would be a good idea to fork off Blake's AI at this point before adding more features to the mod.

In my eyes the weakest points of the AI are overexpanding while neglecting military technology. Maybe there are also design issues not directly related to AI performance. The designers of the original game had their reasons for allowing a cheap, early city defender (Archer) which you can only overcome by employing good tactics and using your opportunities well (read: hook up copper early and axe rush).

The über-promotions possible in FFH throw this concept way off balance: attackers can be promoted more easily by picking fights, while you rely on enemy aggression to promote defenders. You collect your level 3 troops that are left over from barb fights and then pick any opponent to conquer -- that is too easy for any seasoned Civ player.

Also, the early strong barbarians plus Orthus and the Skeleton Ship add a tremendous amount of luck to the early game. I think barb strength should match the average strength of the civs, like in Vanilla.

Still, I'm looking forward to any improvements to come and I'll be happy to play a lot of FFH when it's ripe ;-).

--Sigi

I really like this mod for its great ideas and because it's almost a total conversion in so many areas. However, the weak AI is really a big problem at the moment.

Probably it would be a good idea to fork off Blake's AI at this point before adding more features to the mod.

--Sigi
O yes, i agree. It's time to work on this principle weakness of FfH.

Camillo Panther Woods

I just started playing this mod and LOVE it.. but I do agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. As it stands right now if you specialize from the beginning to get a strong unit the AI has no way to defend itself and you can run over an entire empire (or two) before they have a chance to defend themselves. It seems there is a generic defensive unit that is missing that will at least cause some risk for an attacker. A few strength 6 units can completely overrun a massive 2 and 3 strength army.

In my last game I was the Shaeim. I completely focused right away so I could get the diseased zombies (strength 6) and completely wiped out the guys with Basium whose best unit was the Thane of Kilmorph (strength 3.) I think the Basium unit had been killed at the beginning while wandering around fighting barbs because I never saw him.

As a solution I think there could be a level 4 defender somewhere along the standard AI research path, or make specializing in the tree more of a risk/reward thing. As it is right now I feel I'm not really missing out on much in the early tree by focusing because I get an entire empire conquered as a reward, guaranteed.

Does anyone know how to say in python (CvGameInterface.py):

"If any player/team has tech X, Y or Z, then pPlayer must research X, Y or Z as well."

Don't know to say "any player". Is it ePlayer?

def AI_chooseTech(argsList):
'AI chooses what to research'
#CvUtil.pyPrint( "CvGameInterface.AI_chooseTech" )
ePlayer = argsList[0]
bFree = argsList[1]
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(ePlayer)
eTeam = gc.getTeam(pPlayer.getTeam())
iTech = -1

Edit: Never mind. I think the Eyes and Ears Network event is a good example.

I just started playing this mod and LOVE it.. but I do agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. As it stands right now if you specialize from the beginning to get a strong unit the AI has no way to defend itself and you can run over an entire empire (or two) before they have a chance to defend themselves. It seems there is a generic defensive unit that is missing that will at least cause some risk for an attacker. A few strength 6 units can completely overrun a massive 2 and 3 strength army.

In my last game I was the Shaeim. I completely focused right away so I could get the diseased zombies (strength 6) and completely wiped out the guys with Basium whose best unit was the Thane of Kilmorph (strength 3.) I think the Basium unit had been killed at the beginning while wandering around fighting barbs because I never saw him.

As a solution I think there could be a level 4 defender somewhere along the standard AI research path, or make specializing in the tree more of a risk/reward thing. As it is right now I feel I'm not really missing out on much in the early tree by focusing because I get an entire empire conquered as a reward, guaranteed.

Sureshot and I designed an alternate tech tree that seems to make this less of a problem. The most recent version should be here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/AssetsTechTreeOnly1.1J.rar)

I think another one of the AI's problems is that it doesn't use anti-unit promotions. I could be wrong, but from my experience playing on monarch/emperor I don't think I've ever seen the AI use them at all; they just use combat mostly and sometimes city defender. Shock I gives +40% against melee and shock II gives another +80% for a total of +120%, and all it requires is combat 3. I'll often build a few warriors in the beginning of the game and fight barbarians and smaller cities with low/no defense bonus up to combat 3/shock 2 and then steamroll a few AIs. If they'd use shock promotions occasionally against my all-warrior army this tactic wouldn't work as easily.

Just a thought~

Hmmm.. Well I saw the funniest thing that I think emphasizes this. An Irrigated Mana node xD

AFAIK you can only build mana on a node...