View Full Version : Research: 16th century BC


1889
Dec 26, 2006, 06:44 PM
After Pottery our research options will be: (research times are rough approximations)

Hunting (3 turns) will let us build spears and scouts
Mysticism (4 turns) Obelisks for culture expansion
Animal Husbandry (9 turns) Reveal horse and will let us pasture those sheep
Masonry (6 turns) useless
Writing (9 turns) Open borders and Library
Metal Casting (34 turns) - Forges and Colossus
Compass (30 turns) Explorers

1889
Dec 26, 2006, 06:54 PM
I think writing is the best choice for us right now.

Open Borders will give us something to negotiate with our neighbors about. We will finally have a chance to enact actual in game treaties and judge the trustworthiness and reliability of other teams. Also we may need to cross cultural boundaries to make contact with other teams.

Libraries are useful in their own rights, but can also provide a method of expanding our borders and producing great people.

This technology is also on the path to tech trading and Taoism should we choose to pursue those.

BCLG100
Dec 27, 2006, 06:03 AM
I agree with writing next- libs are much better than obelisks at expanding borders.

Following that the next tech i believe should be hunting- with GCA's Uu as a keshik we want them to think we may at least have built some spearmen.

RegentMan
Dec 27, 2006, 10:32 AM
Aye, writing. Then we could go for alphabet and trade it to BAT... :mischief:

zyxy
Dec 28, 2006, 04:37 AM
Or hunting, for spears. Or towards Monarchy, for extra happiness.

I haven't completely given up on the BAT deal yet. But more solid info would be nice... and if you have given up, then writing is fine.

1889
Jan 26, 2007, 11:58 AM
Writing will be done in 5 turns, what next?

Do we want to go for a religion, better civics, our UU or some new buildings?

Our next choices are:
Mysticism (5)
Alkphabet (30)
Math (25)
Hunting (4)
Massonry (7)
Animal Husbandry (8)
Metal Casting (36)
Compass (32)

dutchfire
Jan 26, 2007, 12:03 PM
I don't like these large numbers.
I'd say Math (but it's 25 turns, that's a real lot) or AH.

RegentMan
Jan 26, 2007, 12:05 PM
Animal husbandry will let us see them lovely horsies.

BCLG100
Jan 26, 2007, 01:04 PM
Metal casting- will give us a very large barganing chip when trading against other teams, also with copper nearby and all the water the colossus would be a very very good wonder to have.

azzaman333
Jan 26, 2007, 03:18 PM
AH, then MC.

robboo
Jan 27, 2007, 03:17 PM
MC ..see BC's thought on this. ALSO...Forges are powerfully early on.

1889
Jan 27, 2007, 04:25 PM
I think Alphabet would be most valuable at the moment. Even if we got MC as a bargaining chip all we would be able to do is trade it to one other civ then it becomes their bargaining chip. Lets take a chance to be in control of our tech deals and not have to depend on the civs that took the time to research Alphabet for themselves.

BCLG100
Jan 28, 2007, 11:03 AM
Think then if we cant come to an agreement we should poll it, i imagine as GCA got writing so long ago they are on the way to alphabet but i could be wrong- also on maps like this the colossus is excellent so i do believe that we should go that way however if the majority say otherwise i'll go with them.

1889
Jan 28, 2007, 11:52 AM
I dislike polls; they replace reasons and explanations with yes/no votes. We still have nearly a week to consider the reasons given for the various research paths and explain our approving or not.

When its time for us to start the next tech I'll just go back through the thread and tally the votes.

1889
Feb 01, 2007, 02:48 AM
Animal Husbandry is qued up as our next research. Lets find some horses and hook 'em up!

BCLG100
Feb 01, 2007, 05:34 AM
Well it shall be unqued, the majority have said to go for MC following this tech.

azzaman333
Feb 01, 2007, 05:55 AM
Actually, 3 said AH (dutch, RM, me) and 2 said MC (you and rob)

BCLG100
Feb 01, 2007, 05:58 AM
:lol: i thought you were saying 'ah'

nevermind then AH it is.

classical_hero
Feb 11, 2007, 09:40 AM
So then we are going to research MC, right?

BCLG100
Feb 11, 2007, 10:10 AM
Yes :)

xcl

classical_hero
Feb 11, 2007, 10:49 AM
If anyone has disagreement with this, speak now or forever hold your peace.

1889
Feb 11, 2007, 11:10 AM
*grumble, grumble*

We have to build a forge to build the Collosus and with our capitol's production tied up with those Fever River will be the only other city that can build anything. We are spread very thin in case of barbarian attack for example and still need troops to maintain happiness in BCLGland and our new city.

RegentMan
Feb 11, 2007, 12:13 PM
As long as it's...

1. Animal husbandry
2. Metal casting

... I'm :) .

BCLG100
Feb 11, 2007, 12:29 PM
*grumble, grumble*

We have to build a forge to build the Collosus and with our capitol's production tied up with those Fever River will be the only other city that can build anything. We are spread very thin in case of barbarian attack for example and still need troops to maintain happiness in BCLGland and our new city.



We wont even be able to start building forges for about 25 turns, in that time the capital can build enough adequate defenders to cover anything that may happen in the future, also we only need 1 troop in each city to keep the city happy as we dont have HR yet. we have two points we need to defend from barbarian attack right now, even when we build near the spices that is only an extra point to defend.

At most we need about 4 more axes (one at each end of empire and two on the spice island), we already have one axe near fever river and another south of the capital these can be pulled back if need be.

the forge building will take awhile, probably more than the colossus itself as we can pre chop all the forests surrounding the capial for increased speed on wonder production.

1889
Feb 11, 2007, 01:44 PM
I don't think we will be able to build settlers and continue expanding while Azelatrof is occupied with the Forge and Colossus. If we find horses we'll want to settle them. In addition to settlers Azelatrof could spend its hammers on workboats for BCLGland, a lighthouse, a barracks, extra workers... I'm not sure if we will be caught up in 25 or so, or if Fever River will be able to satisfy these needs alone.

Also Colossus is only useful in water tiles (+1 gold), but Azelatrof is our principal production city so how many water tiles will it ever use?

BCLG100
Feb 11, 2007, 03:00 PM
As it applies to every cities water tiles that doesn't matter much does it? i can think of 5 water tiles right now which will instantly be being used regardless of whether or not we build the colossus. thats and extra 5 gpt which is huge when the maximum gpt of everyone in the game is about 25 so far...

it doesnt need a lighthouse till we can get more happiness and thus if not building units it doesnt need a barracks.

It could indeed be building them other things but we have three workers as it is fever river if need be can pump out another one. azeltrof can pump out the defence needed from barbarians in the time between builds and we dont really need another city right now otherwise over expansion might begin to kill us.

1889
Feb 11, 2007, 05:19 PM
Oh, every city...I didn't remember it that way. :blush:

BCLG100
Feb 11, 2007, 06:29 PM
no worries id agree if it was only one city :)

classical_hero
Feb 11, 2007, 09:04 PM
Considering there is somuch water to use, having the colossus is a very powerful wonder to have. I do hope that we beat other nations to it.

robboo
Feb 12, 2007, 10:59 AM
We HAVE to have either the Great lighthouse or collosous on this map. No two ways about it. We need the trade route boast and water maps give more chance of the Great lighthouse. HOWEVER I think the collosous will help greatly on this map due to every city potentionally having a water tile.

RegentMan
Feb 13, 2007, 12:54 AM
Oh, every city...I didn't remember it that way. :blush:
It was only the city in which it was built for Civ II and Civ III (I never really played Civ I). They changed it for [civ4] .

classical_hero
Feb 13, 2007, 05:53 AM
Don't forget that many civs will be tryig for this, so we better make sure that we do this right.

BCLG100
Feb 13, 2007, 06:42 AM
hence beelining there now, pre chops of forest etc.

robboo
Feb 13, 2007, 07:52 AM
better to take a chance and get a forge and gold than to sit back and not get anything.

1889
Feb 13, 2007, 10:34 AM
better to take a chance and get a forge and gold than to sit back and not get anything.

Anything is better than nothing, but building a base for future military might is better even than a chance at a wonder.

BCLG100
Feb 13, 2007, 12:17 PM
Fever river is still quite a good production city. we could indeed axe rush someone but then who do we ally with later, we've hardly got anyone in our pockets so to speak.

1889
Feb 13, 2007, 12:47 PM
I'm not proposing an axe rush but we need to stop making the reaction of our potential, yet non-existent, allies our first consideration. Four of them will in fact be our enemies and there is no requirement that we be allied with the other two that go to the finals with us. This game is about survival, friendship and alliances are secondary to that.

We can expand toward Zyxys good spots, we can build some barracks and we can better defend our cities. Strength will discourage the predators and be an aphrodisiac for the weak. I think that is a better plan than building a wonder right now. People will ally with us when we have something to offer, not because we haven't made them mad.

BCLG100
Feb 13, 2007, 01:59 PM
I think that is a pretty worthless argument, what your saying is build a load of units so we can not use them but have them around to look pretty and thus people will ally with us and give us a load of tech as we have so many units. :mischief: be realistic. Sure we can bully people into doing this but how long will it take for a couple of teams to gang up on us if we did that, not very long.

it is a lot harder to attack in civ 4 than it is to defend, however if you gain a tech advantage on your foes then you can punish them pretty easily, by not picking a financial or a philosophical civ then we are already at a disadvantage in that we cant make use of our traits to propell us scientifically. Naturally this would still be ok if we we're playing a bunch of AI as we could just run along and kill everyone, here however it is not so good- teams will group together and share techs, eventually if you stand around being the hardman you are going to get out teched and killed.


The colossus will help us with that, it gives a bonus to every sea tile, it allows us to effectivly keep pace with financial civs until we can make use of our GP city and also build some more cities.

regarding ZXZY's spots, i acknowledge that they are good spots, however not only would the maintenance of these 'good spots' kill us but it would be impossible to defend, we would in effect need an army twice the size of a normal civs just to defend both patches- heaven forbid we actually want to attack someone ourselves.

1889
Feb 13, 2007, 05:03 PM
I know what a good Civ player you are, so that facetious summary must be meant as a joke, but you may want to ad J/K at the end because it would be very embarrassing if someone actually thought that reflected your level of understanding of civ strategy.

As you know, warmongering is much more than spamming the map with crappy units and making extortion demands. Such banditry forces enemies together in defense. A more intelligent use of arms recognizes that the value of an army is not measured by what it can capture or destroy but by what you can make others believe it can capture or destroy. As such while great force must be possessed its value is enhanced by infrequent use. Rather you must seek to be the peacekeeper whose company is always welcomed and whose friendship is held in high regard.

Like any other strategy we must keep a sharp eye on our treasury, seek out good city locations, pursue advanced technology and deter attack. A powerful army is not about forcing others to give us what we require, but being able to disregard the threats of others and negotiate from a position of power.

BCLG100
Feb 13, 2007, 05:41 PM
And the colossus is one way of forcing the point of a good army. Another way is by having a massive population, this gives the impression of power without the actual resulting units.

The impression is done through diplomacy, no-one will know what you think without that diplomacy, people can look at the power graph and soldier stats all they like but before the discovery of alphabet no-one can be quite sure what is tech and what is raw power.

Someone will argue now in another thread that we need to research hunting to stop the keshiks of GCA, we seem to be on friendly relations to them for a start but we should stop aiming to be a reactionary team, building the colossus will put us in a position of choice, who will be allied with us and reap the benefits of it and who will fall by the wayside as we tech past them.



oh cheers for the compliment but im no better than your average player.

azzaman333
Feb 13, 2007, 05:46 PM
Someone will argue now in another thread that we need to research hunting to stop the keshiks of GCA

It is more important to get MC as soon as possible than to get some spears to defend a potential attack by GCA.

BCLG100
Feb 13, 2007, 05:51 PM
Wasn't just referring to you there azz, my apolgies if it seemed to be :)

azzaman333
Feb 13, 2007, 11:38 PM
Wasn't just referring to you there azz, my apolgies if it seemed to be :)

Just clarifying my position. I (incorrectly) assumed we had Hunting when I said that earlier. :)