Hello and welcome to the 12th G-Minor of HOF-IV. Please be advised that HOF Rules apply in addition to these settings.

Settings:

Victory Condition: Time (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Chieftain
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Huge
Map Type: Great Plains
Speed: Marathon
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version:1.61.009, 1.61.010 or 2.08.003
Date: 26th December 2006 to 9th January 2007
The win with the highest score wins.
See G-Minor 12 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198506) for details.

Hi superslug...

FYI, the HOF announcement on the home page says this minor is Chieftan. However, this thread says Settler... can you confirm which it is?

Also, I'm assuming the last paragraph in your post in this thread (earliest finish date wins) does not apply since it is a Time victory condition.

Version: 2.00, 2.00.001, 2.00.002,...
Is this on purpose? they wouldn't be acceptable for the HOF, right?

Huge Marathon, Time victory. Ugh.
Reminds me of that G-Major a while ago, Emperor Conquest on Huge (Epic IIRC). Isn't this maybe just a bit too demanding on people's system specs? I guess you guys know what you're doing, I'm just surprised...

Hmm. Is it possible to design these for standard-sized maps, or perhaps offer a variant that uses standard-sized maps? My computer can't handle anything above large. In the late game it becomes nearly impossible to play large maps unless I've clobbered nearly everyone else.

Just a wish. :)

Hi superslug...

FYI, the HOF announcement on the home page says this minor is Chieftan. However, this thread says Settler... can you confirm which it is?

Also, I'm assuming the last paragraph in your post in this thread (earliest finish date wins) does not apply since it is a Time victory condition.
Corrected. Thanks.

Is this on purpose? they wouldn't be acceptable for the HOF, right?
This is corrected here in the thread. I can't seem to make the change on the server, but as you said, the older versions shouldn't be getting played anymore anyway.

Huge Marathon, Time victory. Ugh.
Reminds me of that G-Major a while ago, Emperor Conquest on Huge (Epic IIRC). Isn't this maybe just a bit too demanding on people's system specs? I guess you guys know what you're doing, I'm just surprised...
I do realize that Huge maps are a bit outside a lot of people's system specs, so I try to do them rarely, but I'm not going to avoid them completely. And at such a low difficulty, huge is more accessible than higher levels given the lack of AI units/towns.

Hmm. Is it possible to design these for standard-sized maps, or perhaps offer a variant that uses standard-sized maps? My computer can't handle anything above large. In the late game it becomes nearly impossible to play large maps unless I've clobbered nearly everyone else.

Just a wish. :)
Clobbering the AI on this difficulty shouldn't be a problem, maybe not even necessary.

Thank you for your hard work, Superslug! I'm gonna give it a try.

Hmm, maybe I can finish a minor at least. Especially considering this starting position:

Oh btw, the second city was build using a settler from a goddy hut, just outside that starting position...

PS: I regenerated just once or twice to get that position, to top it off. If I remember the over 2.000 regenerates I made for the last G-Major...

Winning under these conditions is trivial. However, maximizing score will require some delicate balancing at the end. Four factors to high score:

- tech
- population
- land
- wonders

Building lots of wonders causes lots of culture which will expand borders. Building high population brings unhappiness, which is combated by turning up the culture slider which will expand borders even faster. Getting lots of land means... well... getting lots of land.

All three add up to a significant risk of crossing the domination limit and "losing" the gauntlet. I think the winner of the gauntlet will be the person who cuts this the finest without screwing up and going over. In one of my time attempts for the Quattromasters, I needed to leave a city undefended so the barbs would take it from me. Otherwise, I was gonna cross the domination limit because of the massive culture I was generating.

I'd like to offer up a sub-challenge. I'll be curious to see who can generate the most "future techs". In my Quattro attempt, IIRC I got to something like 170 future techs. Who will get the most in this gauntlet???

I have a settler time victory on a smaller map, I think I was up to future tech 191 by the end. I was at 1 every 2-3 turns, with numerous GPs letting me lightbulb 1/2 a tech each. Wonders shouldn't make much difference to the final score, as I assume everyone will build/capture almost all of them. Do National Wonders count for score? I haven't actually checked. Land shouldn't have a big effect on score, as everyone has virtually the same domination limit, and will be finishing the game very close to it. So it will likely be down to tech & population.

Sigh, well, I think the real problem at this minor for inexperienced players like me, is not to win, prior to 2050 ^^. At turn 600 I was sure that I would win culture victory before 2050 due to too high culture output of my 6 main cities. Well, I'll give it another, more decentralised try. ^^

Mh, this is the most time-comsuming specification possible, isn't it?
I'll wait for the next G-Minor then.

hf
Airny

I'm gotta give this a try, even though it's going to be time-consuming.

I hope that I wouldn't cross the domination level or the cultural level:D

Edit: Btw, how often does this G-Minor occur??????

Edit: Btw, how often does this G-Minor occur??????
Haven't had one lately, but they're about to get considerably more regular.

Welll.. that was quite time consuming. Spent the last 300 years choosing what to build next, fun fun :P
I managed to get a "normalized" score of a bit over 7k, with a littlve over 100 future techs. Not a great finish, But I'm sure it won't be dead last, either.

Uhm.... ruhroh... is it supposed to be on Chief or Settler, final answer?

Chieftain.

WoW I thought, ok since I always play on settler, now is a chance to try going up a level
Great Plains may not have been the way to go.:sad:
What a lot of nasty barbarians running around.
I had to restart lots of times and get the great wall up pronto.
The two main problems are barbarians and the map. I regenerated lots of time choosing different civs and whichever side of the map you get has its challenges.
First I started in the plains, no forests or hills, also no luxury items.
Then I started in the forests, and I do mean forests and jungles. There was no stone, I did see marble but I could not get the great wall up in time before my Captial was captured by the barbarians.
I have a game up now but I cannot see how I can win when most of my cities are just making farms and the occasional watermill.
I do not have enough cottages.
Well I could not find a better way to spend my vacation, I am still having fun, I am about to restart one more time. It has to get better than this.
Any suggestions would be nice.:lol:

Any suggestions would be nice.:lol:
Turn the barbs off? :mischief:

Any suggestions would be nice.

Turn the barbs off? :crazyeye:

I got a decent starting spot, in the northeast corner of the map, with lots of grasslands and rivers, and several health boosters nearby. Figuring that top score will have more to do with population and land, I'm playing Washington, for his extra health and happiness bonus.

Sent out a couple of warriors to explore; after they'd popped the nearby huts,(couple of techs, settler, 3 workers) I set them to auto, so they could go forth and find the neighbors. Research was set to BW, then a couple of worker techs, then IW, then straight to Alphabet. Traded Fishing and Sailing for the four techs available. Built several cities in the meantime, then beelined to Theology. Converted to Christianity in 160BC, built the Church, and watched it spread like wildfire. By this time I had around 12 cities, running 3 west from the eastern map edge, and 4 south.

Set up a commerce city, 3 good production cities, and a couple of GP factories, then had the army of workers farm everything possible. Not much in the way of resources, so am glad for Washington's traits, every little bit helps. Cities are growing wild.

Research dropped as low as 20%, but quickly climbed back up to 60%, which was way more than enough to blow by the AI. I've basically ignored them, except Lizzie, who I kinda dig, she gets gifts of gold and extra wildlife. After learning how to sell techs, I pawned off a couple of low level ones for a pile of gold, which has allowed me to keep pumping out settlers, and expanding to the south.

The AI is just learning that wine is good for what ails ya, but has managed to build 4-6 cities each. The map is starting to fill up, particularly along my western border.

A cool thing about the GP maps; it's very easy to gauge how close you are to the Dom limit by the minimap. It's now 1200AD, and I've settled the entire eastern edge of the map, 24 cities total, putting me within a point of the Dom pop limit, and at 13% of the land, with score just under 40k. Research at 70% and making a bit of extra cash, with plenty in the bank. Have built a modest military, a few muskets and catapults.

Built all wonders except Temple of Artemis, which the Germans on my border were nice enough to do for me.

I'm gonna keep cranking research and building farms, until I get to Tanks. Then it'll be time to go forth and convert the Heathen, razing all but wonder and holy cities.

Except for Liz. I'm gonna give her a bunch of tanks and gold so she can join in the fun.

:cry:
I was supposed to turn barbs off?

Oh well I got practice fast tracking to great wall.

Any more suggestions ?
I think I will try being Washington too.
Grassland and rivers, that never happens for me.
Thanks guys.

:cry:
I was supposed to turn barbs off?

Well, it's optional, really. Should raise your adjusted Qscore by what, 50% to have em on, though?

:cry:
I was supposed to turn barbs off?

Well, it's optional, really. Should raise your adjusted Qscore by what, 50% to have em on, though?

Not by 50%, but it does increase it. Here's the formulae:

QScore = BaseQScore * (DifficultyAdjustor + BarbAdjustor) * MapSizeAdjustor

Where the BarbAdjustor is:
Raging Barbs 0.1
Normal Barbs 0.05
No Barbs 0.0

One way to look at it is with raging barbs it increases your score as if you had played one difficulty level higher and normal barbs as half a level higher.

In case there's anyone who doesn't know where I'm getting this information, you can find it here (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/quattromasters.php?show=formulae&pubID=-1).

Edit: I'll probably give this at least one shot, but I'd like to finish my G-Major first.

Not by 50%, but it does increase it. Here's the formulae:

QScore = BaseQScore * (DifficultyAdjustor + BarbAdjustor) * MapSizeAdjustor

Where the BarbAdjustor is:
Raging Barbs 0.1
Normal Barbs 0.05
No Barbs 0.0


So, with a DifficultyAdjustor of 0.2 for this game, wouldn't adding 0.1 for raging barbs be a 50% increase in final QScore?

This was a tough one to decide which civ to play and whether to play vanilla or warlords. I thought Liz (philosophical and financial) would probably be best but have played her to death. I then decided on Peter in warlords for expansive (useful for half price granaries rather than health benefits) and philosophical (GP production and cut-price unis), the main reason though was the UB of research institute for 2 free scientists. I think the number of future techs will be the score-breaker in this one so every little bit helps right.

This was a tough one to decide which civ to play and whether to play vanilla or warlords. I thought Liz (philosophical and financial) would probably be best but have played her to death.

Yep, I went through the same thought process. I've decided to try Mehmed in Warlords. Expansive for the health, organized because I thought large population would drive high civic costs (not sure I have this right, can anyone confirm civic cost increases with pop?). I liked his unique building for the +2 smilies and +2 health. Last reason... never played him before, thought I'd give him a spin.

Decided to try a specialist approach, haven't been building any cottages. However, I'm becoming skeptical that I'll ever tech as fast as a financial civ with a bazillion cottages. I am producing more food, so my pop will be huge. Problem will be keeping them happy, especially if an AI switches to emancipation. Another question for the board... does emancipation unhappiness keep increasing, or does it eventually cap? Anyone know what the cap is?

I've decided to try Mehmed in Warlords. Expansive for the health, organized because I thought large population would drive high civic costs (not sure I have this right, can anyone confirm civic cost increases with pop?). I liked his unique building for the +2 smilies and +2 health.

Thought about playing Mehmed as well, that UB is cool, but thought that Washington's traits and UB were stronger for the endgame. Just hit the 1600's, and haven't had any real problems with health/happiness. Would like to know the answer to your question concening civic costs though.

Decided to try a specialist approach, haven't been building any cottages. However, I'm becoming skeptical that I'll ever tech as fast as a financial civ with a bazillion cottages. I am producing more food, so my pop will be huge. Problem will be keeping them happy, especially if an AI switches to emancipation. Another question for the board... does emancipation unhappiness keep increasing, or does it eventually cap? Anyone know what the cap is?

My cities(30+) are huge, with nearly every non-hill square farmed, excepting 2 quasi-commerce centers with maybe 20 cottages between them. I left most grassland hills for Windmills, and converted the few mines I had built, squeezing out every point of food I can. With all the specialists I'm running, research and cash have been no prob, Washington seems little different from Liz in that regard. And as for GPs, I'm literally cranking them out(Pacifism/Caste System), to the point now that except for trying to get an Academy in every city(have 7-8 now) I'm using them as SSs. I shudder to think what a Philo civ would have produced by now. Just started Future Techs, and have half of the pop and 25% of the land.

Haven't switched to Emancipation yet, still running Bureaucracy, while I'm cranking out Settlers from DC to fill in the dead spaces within my borders, as well as the new areas cleared up by mine and Lizzie's rampaging armor. Pretty easy as we're facing Longbows and an occasional Musket.

I pre-built Railroads all across the map prior to going to war, while we still had open borders, and it's really paying off now. Armor and MI are just zipping across the plains.

This is the first game I've ever concentrated on food to this extent, and I must say I'm quite happy with the results.

:lol: I just accomplished something I've never done before... beat the AI's to Liberalism, took a Future Tech as my freebie (in 1447 AD).

Wow, 600 turns to go...

:lol: I just accomplished something I've never done before... beat the AI's to Liberalism, took a Future Tech as my freebie (in 1447 AD).

Wow, 600 turns to go...

Yeah I took a future tech as my freebie too :lol:. I took future tech 1 when it came up but I'm at 30 or 40 now and no-one else has Liberalism :lol:.

I was going to go Mehmed as well, for the reasons you mentioned, but had just played him in a SG. Also went specialist economy. Was thinking of cottaging and then farming over in the late game but with over 60 cities, it would be a bit tedious.

I believe emancipation hapiness caps at 1 :mad: for every civ that switches, could be wrong though.

I'm going to try this, just to become Quattromaster.
Any chance of just making a small empire, set everything to wealth/research and enter through the last 2 millenia?

Huge Marathon, Time victory. Ugh.
Reminds me of that G-Major a while ago, Emperor Conquest on Huge (Epic IIRC). Isn't this maybe just a bit too demanding on people's system specs? I guess you guys know what you're doing, I'm just surprised...

Strange, I'm gonna end up not playing it cause of the difficulty, not that stuff. :crazyeye:

4 hours of playing time and I'm just 400 turns in with 800 to go. I hate marathon..:cry:

This is going to take forever. But, it is the last game I need to make quattromaster, so I guess I'll slug it out.

I'm going to try this, just to become Quattromaster.
Any chance of just making a small empire, set everything to wealth/research and enter through the last 2 millenia?

Depends what you mean with "enter through the last two millenia".

At the end of the game you'll need as close to domination landcontroll as possible, as high pop as possible and as many future techs as possible.

Controlling all uranium, aluminium and oil spots will definitely help, as well as nuking everyone else (special those approaching space race victory) to hell.

I don't think my computer can handle a huge empire, so I'm thinking of building a relatively small empire, farm everything (high pop), run scientists economy, and I don't think nuking and resources will be that good, it's chieftain, will the AI get to space before 2050? (Vanilla)

I was three days into an attempt on this one when Genghis backstabbed me and snagged a dozen of my workers. :mad: :spank: :thumbdown :wow: :wallbash: [pissed] :badcomp: :sniper: :whipped:

I'll have a go at it again in a day or so. My current map is going to get littered with a few too many ICBM's to prove worthwhile to take to 2050ad.

I was three days into an attempt on this one when Genghis backstabbed me and snagged a dozen of my workers. :mad: :spank: :thumbdown :wow: :wallbash: [pissed] :badcomp: :sniper: :whipped:


I think he saw a few nukes coming :p

I'm not even going to try this one, it'll take way too much time.

<Edit to add @Bastian-Bux> Unless Chieftain is a lot different from my previous Settler games, judicious conventional warfare will prevent the AI even from getting to Chemistry. No need for aluminium, nukes or oil. Trust me :mischief:

I have a question. In my settler time games, I decided (through experimentation) that world projects (eg SDI, Internet) don't boost score. Is that correct? It seems a bit surprising ... :confused:

I was three days into an attempt on this one when Genghis backstabbed me and snagged a dozen of my workers. :mad: :spank: :thumbdown :wow: :wallbash: [pissed] :badcomp: :sniper: :whipped:

What do you expect? You've been baiting Mr. Khan in your signature for weeks. He's probably like a bull looking at red by now.

Hmmmm... I just realized something. I've always thought your user title above your avatar ("Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannn!!!!") was quoting Captain Kirk in the second (and best) Star Trek movie. Now I'm not so sure, maybe you aren't a trekkie after all. How far back does your grudge with Genghis go? :lol:

I have a question. In my settler time games, I decided (through experimentation) that world projects (eg SDI, Internet) don't boost score. Is that correct? It seems a bit surprising ...

I believe you are correct. Projects (including spaceship parts) don't count for anything. Seems like they should though.

I believe emancipation hapiness caps at 1 for every civ that switches, could be wrong though.

Initially, I thought this might be the case as well. However, it appears there is no limit to emancipation unhappiness. I just finished a game, at the end my emancipation unhappiness was something like 14. I think I only started with 11 AI's, by the end, there were only 5-6 left. The good news on this issue... I had totally forgotten that Future Tech's give you a smiley. Emancipation unhappiness is a totally moot point. 14 unhappy faces pale in comparision to a bajillion Future Tech smilies.


/EDIT: Hey superslug... I was thinking about a Vanilla try on this minor. I looked at the starting post just to be safe, glad I did. It says version 1.61.010 is required? I don't think this was ever announced on the forum? Usually there is a new thread that makes it clear a new version is out. Not sure everyone will catch the fact that a higher version is now required?

Thanks for the confirmation on the projects, The-Hawk.

superslug, I just wondered whether you might consider a bit of an extension on the deadline for this gauntlet? I know there's a week to go, but I'll struggle to get my current game done in this time and I would have thought others might have trouble too. The later years take so long to play ... Any chance?

Hmmmm... I just realized something. I've always thought your user title above your avatar ("Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannn!!!!") was quoting Captain Kirk in the second (and best) Star Trek movie. Now I'm not so sure, maybe you aren't a trekkie after all.
My user title is actually homage to both my feud and ST:II. :)

How far back does your grudge with Genghis go? :lol:
11 years. My first game of Civilization I. I guess I need to tell the story again sometime...

/EDIT: Hey superslug... I was thinking about a Vanilla try on this minor. I looked at the starting post just to be safe, glad I did. It says version 1.61.010 is required? I don't think this was ever announced on the forum? Usually there is a new thread that makes it clear a new version is out. Not sure everyone will catch the fact that a higher version is now required?
I think you're right, we missed the usual forum announcement. It was announced with an update I believe though, and we're not seeing many .009 submissions as of late, so word's gotten around.

If I see any .009 Gauntlet submissions for this one, I'd probably let them in though. .008 is out of the question though.

superslug, I just wondered whether you might consider a bit of an extension on the deadline for this gauntlet?
Not likely I'm afraid. I'm eager to start the new year's Gauntlet cycle.

The later years take so long to play

You ain't just whistling Dixie.

Finally finished this thing late last night, with the last 300+ turns becoming a clickfest. I stopped warring around 1700, with the remaining 3 AIs all buddied up to me.

I had all ideas of really maximizing my score at the end, but just couldn't summon the energy to put much effort into it. Missed a couple of wonders, accidentally razed a couple of others, so that part of my score isn't optimal. Could have gotten closer to the Dom limit, but Liz renounced her vasselage, and I just dinna have the heart to stop her. Still, with the huge population, and the mass of FTs, came out with a score good enough for second currently.

The AI did start building it's SS, but not until there were less than 50 turns to go, so no threat there. I held off on the UN until the very end, just dinna want to have to deal with the resolutions popping up.

Hey superslug... I was thinking about a Vanilla try on this minor. I looked at the starting post just to be safe, glad I did. It says version 1.61.010 is required? I don't think this was ever announced on the forum? Usually there is a new thread that makes it clear a new version is out. Not sure everyone will catch the fact that a higher version is now required?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Glad I saw this. I'm already about six hours in and I'm using .009

I think you're right, we missed the usual forum announcement. It was announced with an update I believe though, and we're not seeing many .009 submissions as of late, so word's gotten around.

If I see any .009 Gauntlet submissions for this one, I'd probably let them in though. .008 is out of the question though.

I may load the new mod and start over if I have enough time, but if I don't have time to finish the new one by the 9th, I may beg for an exemption to .010. :blush:

OK, my first submission has been accepted. Thought I'd post some numbers to give everyone a target to shoot for...

Score: 16671
Number of Future Techs discovered: 373
Great Persons: I have no idea how many I spawned, but at the end, the next GP required 26,400 points.

I'm hoping to give this another go, because I know I messed some things up. This score can easily be beaten. Some learnings:

- I was too concerned about happiness, I had totally forgotten future techs give smilies. No reason to be building lots of happiness buildings.
- I wasted too much time trying to get Great Profits for the religious wonders. By the end, I had built all 7! However, I think the points for wonders are not as important as techs. I few more early Academies might have been worth more than those extra religious wonders.
- I missed three wonders (although I captured one later). I could not build Collossus or Lighthouse because I was not on the coast. I gifted the required techs to the coastal AI's, but they never built them. By the time I captured the coastal cities, the wonders were obsolete. I thought I might still be able to build them, but apparently not. The third wonder I missed was Kremlin. No excuse... I simply forgot to build it! Imagine how stupid I felt towards the end of the game when the announcement came that Vicky had built Kremlin :blush:. Good news was I was able to beeline an army to that city and capture it right at the end of the game, so I got the points anyhow.
- I made some dumb decisions along the way. For example, I revolted to switch to Free Religion for the tech bonus. At that point in the game, I took 6 turns of anarchy! However, while I was still in that anarchy, I had the chance for a UN vote. Doh! Anywhere along the way, I could have forced Free Religion with a UN vote (and no anarchy). :hammer2:
- I never pulled the trigger on the UN resolution that gives foreign trade routes. My concern was that it might have forced me off the Mercantilism civic, and I didn't want to lose the free specialists. Does anyone know if the UN resolution on open markets allows you to keep Mercantilism as your civic? This could have been a huge boost to my income if I had added the trade routes without losing the free specialists. (Hmmmm... maybe I can replay from a save and see what happens to my civic if I voted for that resolution).

One other oddity in the game. Playing Warlords, I got an early Great General. Didn't really know what to do with it, so I used it to add 20 experience points to my most experienced unit. My thought process was that I needed to get one unit high enough to qualify for the Epic and West Point wonders. Anyhow, with the experience boost and free promotions, this little unit became quite a stud :ar15: . I started using him to pick on AI's to keep them stunted. By the end of the game, he had reached experience level 17! When I reload the game to try the UN resolution thing, I'll take a screenshot of him...

Sorry for the double post... I ran a quick test. Taking the UN resolution for Free Markets (and the foreign trade routes) does not force you off Mercantilism. However, since Mercantilism does not allow foreign routes, the UN resolution accomplished nothing. No value in voting it in.

In my previous post, I said I'd take a screenie of my level 17 unit. However, I can't seem to get it to work :confused: . I press print screen, it even allows me to enter a name for the file. But, I'm only getting tiny files with black screens :( . Might this be a memory problem since this game was so huge at the end?

In my previous post, I said I'd take a screenie of my level 17 unit. However, I can't seem to get it to work :confused: . I press print screen, it even allows me to enter a name for the file. But, I'm only getting tiny files with black screens :( . Might this be a memory problem since this game was so huge at the end?

I could never get the in-game screenshot to work either. I found its easiest for me to hit the 'Print Screen' and than tab over to Windows Paint and paste it there. That way works for me everytime.

Thanks Methos, pasting into Paint worked. I have no idea why the in-game screenprint is so erratic (it does work sometimes). Anyhow, here is my unit. I got a kick out of how his promotions cover the picture of his mech infantry.

145343

I just submitted my first HOF game ever, for this gauntlet though a low score (5313). BUT: I have some trouble to tell Civ4 to use my nick from this forum, instead of my other nick (Anders). So this might show up as an error when you check the saves. Hope its still acceptable, as I slugged full 30 hours through that game. And that was my third try (got cultural and domination victory in the first two tries.

Now, just for fun I'll try a game with a serious (say financial and/or industrious) civ. ^^

That's no problem, but you should be able to edit your nick in the config file

superslug

Ahh, I have problem with my finish file, when was last turn 2050AD I read notice… fatal memory error and the game was aborted. AutoSave AD-2050 starts with the same notice. I use last AutoSave AD-2046 to finish my game. Last 100 turn I do nothing, only press mouse button “next turn”.

superslug

Ahh, I have problem with my finish file, when was last turn 2050AD I read notice… fatal memory error and the game was aborted. AutoSave AD-2050 starts with the same notice. I use last AutoSave AD-2046 to finish my game. Last 100 turn I do nothing, only press mouse button “next turn”.
Send an email to hof@civfanatics.net saying the same thing when you submit. ;)

I may load the new mod and start over if I have enough time, but if I don't have time to finish the new one by the 9th, I may beg for an exemption to .010. :blush:
I just officialized .009 for this one, but please do upgrade as soon as you're done.

I'm not sure if "officialize" is an official verb in the English language, but if not I just officialized as such for the HOF forum.

superslug

I just send an email to hof@civfanatics.net with bad AutoSave AD-2050.

Well, my fault if i've checked HOF page only today, but 1/9 for a huge map + marathon is a bit close (in other words, no chance to submit for me).

Am i asking much for another week (better 2)?, say until jan 20th???

thanks anyway

Not likely I'm afraid. I'm eager to start the new year's Gauntlet cycle. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4936998&postcount=40)

I think you'll get the same answer.
In these extra days, you could also play G-Minor 13!

Two quick questions from an HOF n00b:

is there a reason why my first game doesn't show up in my quattromaster list? Shouldn't it count against all 6 categories? Yeah, you guessed it, I want to become quattromaster with 18 games only. ^^

about gauntlets: is it necessary to complete 2 minors and majors each, or just one each? The info on the page says one, though here in the forums I often read about "my second minor then I'm done".

is there a reason why my first game doesn't show up in my quattromaster list? Shouldn't it count against all 6 categories? Game don't show up until they are published. Updates are run on the 10th and 25th of each month.
about gauntlets: is it necessary to complete 2 minors and majors each, or just one each? The info on the page says one, though here in the forums I often read about "my second minor then I'm done".Only one game is required but your top two games in each sub-category are used to calculate QScores.

Btw how it is defined is gauntlet minor or major (is it just difficulty level)? Didnt find any definition of those.

-Dracandross

Btw how it is defined is gauntlet minor or major (is it just difficulty level)? Didnt find any definition of those.

-Dracandross
It's completely arbitrary.

Oh drat, well into my attempt for this game I triggered domination. I've not grasped the Vasselstate thing fully yet, so I didn't realize I can't give cities to my Vassals. The three nations left were too weak to effectively push my boundaries with the cities I gifted. It was in 1795AD, I had aquired 45 Future Techs and just over 10k points, of which 4100 due to pop and still growing. It is so hard to not accumulate culture when even the specialists add to it. With the Statue of Liberty every city has at least one specialist and even the non-specific specialist generates 2 culture...

Well, all that is left, is gather courage for the next try. :suicide:

Oh drat, well into my attempt for this game I triggered domination.

Ouch! This is my biggest fear in this gauntlet. The approach I've taken to try to mitigate this risk...

- I expand and conquer the AI's on my side of the map, but leave the AI's on the other half to expand at their leisure.
- I try not to build any wonders in the cities near the middle of the map so that my borders don't expand too fast.
- Eventually, the AI's fill the empty space so that their cultural borders reach mine. My goal is to expand to the point where I have 40-45% when our borders meet.
- I continue to leave them alone for a while so that they can establish some culture buildings in their border cities. My goal is to create a border at about 45% that is stable... i.e. neither of us is culturally pushing the other.
- Once the border seems stable, I go to war to knock them down so that there is no chance they'll tech to space victory (or reach modern weapons so that they might threaten me).
- However, I leave all their cities intact. All I do is kill their defenders down to the final unit. This way, they don't lose cities creating the stable cultural border.
- I then pillage every single improvement around their cities. This starves them out and seriously stunts their tech growth. However, they don't lose culture so our borders don't move.
- If the AI has collected a bunch of workers in one of its cities back away from our common border, I might take the city and raze it so that I stunt his workforce and their ability to rebuild. But I never capture or raze a city near our common border.
- As the game progresses, I start selectively capturing a couple of the AI border cities just to get closer to the dom limit. But I'm always careful to make sure the overall border is stable before grabbing a couple more.

My experience was that as long as I didn't build anything more than tech buildings (e.g. libraries) in my border cities, the AI was able to maintain enough culture to keep the border very stable.

OK, here my hints for other newbies how to solve this gauntlet.

Which civ?

Well, you need either a civ that excels at research (financial being first choice), or a civ that has at least Mysticism as start tech (to get all 7 religions). Hunting as start tech is a plus, as you can churn out 4 scouts quickly to grab the goody huts (which in several attempts on this game brought me up to 5 settlers!!!)

Where to start, or better, where to end?

Great Plains maps have a fairly straight layout, as depicted in the (not very artistic) sketch.

Now, where are which resources located?

Stone can be found in the great plains close to the desert. Marble in the forest and jungle region. Copper and iron in the great plains are as well as in the mountains. Food mostly in great plains (tons of cows) and forest.

But whats about the 3 important strategic resources for late game?

Well uranium and aluminum are both only found in the mountains, oil in the desert and jungle region.

So by now it should be clear which areas we want to own in the end game, right? Remember, we are only allowed to own 51 till 56% of the land tiles depending on number of opponents).

So our aim is to own all of the mountains (cutting off all opponents from uranium and aluminum), the desert area (for tech cities and to reduce the amount of avaible oil) and the coast area, including some djungle spots (for even more oil not avaible to our opponents, and for the water tiles that don't count vs. domination but help research).

So basically we want an L and control 3 of the 4 corners.

Now the question is: where to start?

The most advantageous starting position in my opinion is the southwestern corner.

I tried a very sweet spot (7 cows and 3 wheat) in the great plains, but actually if you start there you'll probably run into domination land size problems. I also tried coast spots: usually not enough production potential.
Didn't try a northwest mountain spot, but lets be honest: we want to control 3 corners, so most logical would be to have our capital in the middle (and Versailles and Forbidden City in the other two corners).
Downside on this place: forget about marble, and even stone is rather unlikely. But, as it is in the desert mountain part, you'll have at least 3-5 flood plains, and should look out for gems, silver or other valuable resources. Plus desert hills make nice mine sites.

All in all a decent place to start, and usually a good place for your capital as the "production wonder city". Yeah, about wonders: basically you want to build all of them in just two cities: your capital and your "sweet spot". Its up to you to decide which of those two will hold all the prophet and engineer wonders (becoming a marvelous production city) and which will go for science and merchant wonders. If you build wonders in other cities, make sure that you can control culture!!! Its horrible to be that close to 2050 and get a 3rd legendary city (that was my first "almost win" I got, I did know at turn 700 that I'd getting a third city to legendary before 1200).

What I did from there was simple: I grabbed all religions, tried to build all wonders, and in the meantime got a nice going 20 city empire (restricted to the corner) that could easily support several task forces of grenadiers. When I had upgraded 16-20 units to grenadiers I was running at 100% science plus, so could afford to eat one of my neighbors. Well, from there on its a cakewalk. Take out the mountain, desert and coast civs, get as close as you dare to your land limit. DON'T take vassals. They ain't worth he trouble (my second almost win).

At this level the AI is usually not competent enough to win culturally. Controlling 50% of the land area, and 50%+ of the pop you can also fend of an AI diplo win. Conquest and domination are out of question for them (though YOU have to avoid domination like hell). Only danger left: space race. Well, without aluminum you did indeed slow them down significantly. Playing them of diplomatically should also reduce the danger of one of them reaching space age to early.

If all else fails, and if you are a wimp like me, you could always nuke them to hell before they can build SDI . Though be prepared to pay the global warming price for this. it won't be nice to your score (I lost 2/3 of my pop due to global warming, and probably at least 50 future techs).

Well I finally finished, just shy of 13000 points, good enough for 2nd place so far.

I played very diffently from The-Hawk and Bastien. I was originally going to play as Peter on Warlords but changed my mind and went Mansu on Vanilla as I was intending on changing civics alot (and I did), especially between slavery, serfdom, emancipation and caste system (which I was on for the last 500 years or so, running 16 scientists in the capital).

I started on the eastern side of the map and decided that that half was mine :lol:.

I went cottage and research crazy to start, took Civil Service from The Oracle, got to Machinery and then went on the attack.

I wiped 6 civs by around 1100AD (I think) mainly with maces/catapults but a few grenadiers/cannons by the end, giving me all of the eastern half (ie 50%). I never built another military unit the entire game, as I knew the remaining civs (who I never attacked) would never hit space. Wasn't concerned that I had no aluminium or uranium as I didn't need them.

From that point on, I solidified my front and keep flipping the enemy cities on the border, for a controlled increase of land towards domination limit (I ended with just under 55%).

Was at future tech high 200s at the end, with all enemy AI friendly (except Tokogawa who was just pleased :lol:).

@The_Hawk: Your approach for avoiding domination is exactly the one I developed in my Settler games and you're right, it works very well. The only additional thing I came up with was building/capturing rotten cities on my borders and either gifting them to a creative AI or (if they won't have them) gifting them to the AI in exchange for peace (when they seem to take a city just about anywhere!) If you make sure the AI is creative, they hold the borders - and expand against mine - very well, particulary after my missionaries have popped in. I'm still only in the 1700s on my game ... and close to the domination limit despite my great scheme for avoiding it :scared:

Exactly when is this game over? We have until the 9th, but what time GMT? I'm going to be cutting it close on this one as I'm currently only at 1645 BC.

I'm also curious, whats the average time it takes for you all to complete this game?

You'll have all of the ninth, and about half of the tenth.

:D I just officialized .009 for this one, but please do upgrade as soon as you're done.

I'm not sure if "officialize" is an official verb in the English language, but if not I just officialized as such for the HOF forum.

I went ahead and started over as my first start became mind numbingly dull.

Thanks for being willing to accept the 009 one. :D

Officialized has a ring of truthiness to it, so it is probably okay. :D

I choose Warlords and Ramesses, anarchy is too much at marathon.

I arrived at FT over 170, despite i used the Oracle for MC (i forgot we need Math for CS, i played Vanilla in the last month).

I stopped to fight at about 50% of land, and another mistake was probably i waited too much to eliminate some civ.
To be honest, i was concerned by the time (RL) factor, and i was not so concentrated on the game itself, in addiction to my lack of experience in this kind of map and level.

I built all wonders but Kremlin (researched FO before communism).

A strange thing: 2 AIs (my buddies) was reserching FT, but never built an SS part.
2 other AIs was building SS (5+3+1 at least) but they missed fusion (then i wasn't too worried).

So I just finished my attempt for this - just over 13000 points, 270 Future Techs. I used an approach thats new for me (I usually cottage spam ;) ) - pure Specialists Economy, farms everywhere and windmills almost everywhere. Peter in Warlords seems to be ideal for this as the UB gives two science specialists in every city...

I just made it in time with my second attempt. I didn't have the time to really milk it, so I got stuck at about 11400 points and 231 FTs. I stayed well beneath the dom limit this time (45%), which turns out to be too low to really count in this Gauntlet. :)

I didn't have the time to really milk it

I've got the same problem. I've got a good game going, thinking I'm ahead of my previous 373 FT pace. But times a-wastin', and I'm only around 1650 AD. Thinking I'm going to have to get into mindless click mode before I'm ready. No time for any micromanagement or optimal play. :(

I wasn't able to finish in time. The game was hard to stay focused on and I ended up dropping it. Maybe one of these days I'll finish it out of curiosity. ;)

The update is going to be a bit later than I originally planned, due to personal schedule. You have 36 hours from this post to submit. Be advised however, that issues such as incorrect 4000bc files, etc won't have time to be resolved if too close to the deadline.

Since i'm probably a bit masochistic, i'm replaying my submitted game from the beginning, and aside the luck to pop 5 settlers from huts (against 1 in the official attempt), i'm in advantage of some 50 turns in research and probably more in acquiring land.

I can figure to gain some 20 FT, arriving close to 200.

I'd like to know how some of you guys managed to arrive at 270 or more.

Does population count more, or are FT the main goal?

Since i'm probably a bit masochistic, i'm replaying my submitted game from the beginning, and aside the luck to pop 5 settlers from huts (against 1 in the official attempt), i'm in advantage of some 50 turns in research and probably more in acquiring land.

I can figure to gain some 20 FT, arriving close to 200.

I'd like to know how some of you guys managed to arrive at 270 or more.

Does population count more, or are FT the main goal?
The factors that control score are:

Pop = 5000
Land = 2000
Wonders = 1000
Tech = 2000


Basically Pop makes up half your score while techs are only 1/5th. So even if the FT doubles that 1/5th, that still can't beat having nearly 100% of the pop.

The factors that control score are:

Pop = 5000
Land = 2000
Wonders = 1000
Tech = 2000


Basically Pop makes up half your score while techs are only 1/5th. So even if the FT doubles that 1/5th, that still can't beat having nearly 100% of the pop.

I don't agree. ;) Population is fundamentally limited by the total food in available in 56% of the land. When you have farmed every tile, your population hits a limit and stops. However, Future Techs are not limited.

Case in point: last night I submitted a game with a final adjusted score of 20,961. Here was my breakdown:

7,206 from population (2962/2055)
1,037 from land (1909/3680)
25,627 from techs (3857/301) :D
978 from wonders (225/230)

Total raw score: 34,848, reduced to 20,961 based on finish date.

Some fun facts:


I built 132 cities. At the very end, I captured 4 more to grab some extra pop and a missing religious wonder, so I finishing with 136 cities.
I researched 509 future techs! :) At the end of the game, I was researching more than 30,000 per turn. From about 1600 AD on, I was getting almost one FT per turn. :crazyeye: 30K is not quite enough for 1 future tech per turn, but frequent lightbulbing of GPs kept the pace very high.
Somehow I missed a wonder! :blush: I have no idea which one, but I only got 225/230 wonder points. I even moved my capital to see if that counted as one of the scoring national wonders (it didn't). I assume I missed one early and it became obsolete before I noticed.
I finished with only 52.42% of the land. Unfortunately, I didn't see superslug had extended the time, so I zipped through the last 450 years. I didn't take the time for a late war to extend my land to 54 or 55%, easily could have done so. However, as I noted, land was a minor factor anyhow.
If I counted correctly, I had 57 Great Persons (next one required 52,200 points):

6 Prophets - used 5 for religious wonders, 1 for lightbulb
4 Engineers - 3 were superspecialists, 1 was lightbulbed
3 Artists - 2 superspecialist, 1 golden age
3 Merchants - same as artists
41 Scientists - Built 18 Academies (later captured a 19th), the rest were all lightbulbs.



IMHO, scoring high is all about techs, although population is important. Total land and building wonders is roundoff.

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

IMHO, scoring high is all about techs, although population is important. Total land and building wonders is roundoff.

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

I am.

I limited my cities and wars until my economy was solid, and i run science at about 70-80% until 1200, and 80-90% until, say, fission, then i can have some city that can produce wealth and some science, until i has a positive break at 100%, and switched some wealth to science, and built occasionally some military.
Not much cottages, cities need food to grow and to run specialists.
I used Liberalism for democracy and built ASAP lady liberty, running representation for all the game.
Perhaps pacifism was a good choice? i revolted to free religion, free speech and emancipation ASA i has democracy, having OR until that.

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

I'm very interested, please. Great job btw!

Well I can't claim to have gotten 20,000 points :eek: but got 13,000 and have a couple of pointers for ya!


I limited my cities and wars until my economy was solid, and i run science at about 70-80% until 1200, and 80-90% until, say, fission, then i can have some city that can produce wealth and some science, until i has a positive break at 100%, and switched some wealth to science, and built occasionally some military.

I ran 100% for most of the game. I sold techs to the AI until all my shrines were up and I could finance myself, running merchants also helps.


Not much cottages, cities need food to grow and to run specialists.

That's absolutely right :goodjob:


I used Liberalism for democracy and built ASAP lady liberty, running representation for all the game.
Perhaps pacifism was a good choice? i revolted to free religion, free speech and emancipation ASA i has democracy, having OR until that.

BUT what's the point if you're in emancipation. Caste System is the way to go. I was running 15 scientists in my capital at the end of the game. Free religion, free speech and representation are good though (I also ran Pacifism for a good while). I was getting many :mad:s for emancipation unhapiness but the 290 :)s from Future Techs helped out :lol:.

Also, I (and I'm pretty sure The-Hawk) took a future tech with Liberalism (in my game in the 1400s I think). With multiple scientists in your cities you should be able to race through the tech tree.

Anyway, I would to like to see a write up from The-Hawk, I could see how to improve my game to get maybe to around 15,000 points (no way had enough Rl time to do so though) but not to 20,000!

Thanks Ozbenno for your comments.
I disagree about liberalism, IMHO 1 FT does not count as free democracy + lady liberty with 16 or so turns of advantage in the middle game.

Good point about caste system against emancipation, but the cottage double growth is interesting.

I don't sale techs to the AI, in my official attempt they were close to launch.
But probably you're right, it's sufficient destroy the most advanced, or let them with 1 poor city.

My in game score was over 13000, reduced to some 8800.

Just to be clear, i'm here to learn and improve, not for win ... but wait a bit.

Come on guys, you can do better. I'm listed as #10 for this game, and I'm an absolutely horrible player.

Unfortunately I never finished this game. Rather than rush it I just quit. I didn't even make it to the AD's.

I'm really looking forward to reading T-Hawk's write up and plan on trying something similar on a smaller map. Give a few of the Time tables a shot.

Add me to the list interested in reading a write-up from The Hawk.

Except for needing a minor for QM, I'd have quit this one as well, just spent the last 400 or so turns clicking enter. But, after reading some of the comments here, I'm interested in seeing how some of you racked up those points, for future reference.

Did anyone try this with raging barbs? It seems to have had a major effect on my game.

1. It's probably (one of) the reason(s) that I didn't have enough real life time to finish this game (in hindsight).
2. Barbarian Nation must have wiped out 5 of the other civilizations for me. I think 3 of them before I declared war on anyone.
3. Because of #2, I think that the AI civs struggled significantly in technology. First because they were having to dedicate resources to fight of the horde. Second because there was less trading possibilities for them amongst one another. I'm almost at 1800AD and the one remaining civ hasn't even gotten to Astronomy yet - definitely not fearing a come from behind space race win.

I haven't messed with the last civ at all yet, but will likely bottle them up in a corner before too much longer. Raze all but one city, destroy all it's tile improvements and kill ALL the defenders w/ Gunships.

Of course, I'm spending a significant amount of Real Life time fighting off the horde, and trying to position explorers effectively to bust up the fog of war.

Stupid barbarians...

The Gauntlet has concluded. Congratulations to the victors.

Results: (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor)
1 The-Hawk 2050 AD 20961
2 ori 2050 AD 13296
3 ozbenno 2050 AD 12965
4 Hindi 2050 AD 12658
5 a space oddity 2050 AD 11462
6 foolonthehill 2050 AD 11068
7 BLubmuz 2050 AD 8816
8 Duelingground 2050 AD 7554
9 Hyppy 2050 AD 7265
10 Bastian-Bux 2050 AD 5313

Well, #10 of 10 is ... better then all that didn't submit a victory. ^^

:mad: I was half way finished typing this reply and my explorer crashed. Oh well, here we go again:

As requested, I've written up my top scoring game. I decided to post it in the strategy forum: link to write-up (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=201714).

To answer some of the questions/comments in this thread:

BLubmuz RE: Liberalism for Democracy and early Statue of Liberty. I did not do this (I used Liberalism for a Future Tech). Why didn't I do it your way??? Well, because I didn't think of it :lol: !! In my game, it only took me 8 turns to research Democracy. However, getting the Statue 8 turns earlier would have been a good thing. I think your idea has merit, wish I'd thought of it. :goodjob:

BLubmuz RE: Choice of civics. As you'll see in the write-up, I did not use Pacifism. My gut feel is the tech bonus from Free Religion is better than more great people. However, I'm not completely sure about this. Pacifism may have been a good choice too :) . As far as the other civics you asked about, I did not run Free Speech because I had no cottages. I did not run emancipation because I had no issues with happiness.

DaddyMac RE: Barbs. None in my game. With these settings, the QScore for this game was gonna suck, the .1 for barbs wouldn't help. I almost never have barbs in HOF games. They slow you down, even at easy levels. As an example, I think I popped 4 settlers in this game. With no barbs, I simply sent them back towards my homeland with no escort and let my scouts, warriors keep exploring. Also, no barbs means no early hammers wasted on units. I'd rather build a settler than a warrior or archer who is not going to explore.

Methos RE: Time spent. My first try was 51 hours, my second was 45 hours (would have been longer if I wasn't up against the deadline).

Bastian-Bux RE: Your hints for newbies. As you'll see if you read my write-up, I don't agree with some of your hints ;) . If you'd like me to elaborate on any of them, please feel free to ask.

ori RE: Peter as a leader. I do like his unique building. However, I thought his traits were not helpful at all. In fact, I discarded creative leaders out of hand because of concerns about an accidental domination win. In hindsight, this fear is probably unfounded. With a little care, domination can be avoided even with a creative leader. However, I'll stick with Mao (vanilla) or Frederick (warlords) and their outstanding traits.

The-Hawk, I read your write up, and yeah, your hints ain't hints from a newbie for newbies, but from the winner of that gauntlet. ;) Very interesting for me to read, though definitely not something I could pull of on an higher difficulty.