I'm currently sitting in my brothers computer which has Windows Vista installed and I can only say, wow! Awsome, much better, more friendly and smooth than than XP, gonna get it as fast as I can.

Do you plan to buy it?

HAH! Only if you can bypass the problems Vista has that has been circling around. Sticking with the XP-tan sisters.

No way am I touching Vista.

What problems?

BTW, i forgot to add that this computer has a 2x 2.8Ghz Intel Xenon processor with 2Gb ram and a 256Mb Graphics card :p

Haha, somebody else who knows who the OS-tans are. Now I feel less geeky and more nerdy 8)

--

I have heard that Vista is horribly bloated and hard to use, so I would suggest not getting it. Still, a gimmick that Microsoft is probably going to do is to make a lot of PC games Vista only, forcing you to update. I think I will hold off on getting Vista though, at least until it gets less bloaty and more usable. It's all hearsay though, so don't take my word for it.

What problems?
This should enlighten your view on the so called Vista-tan (Windows Vista) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197975)

I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:

(I have everything useful that Vista provides, including the eye-candy, and have had it for over a year, now. If game companies would support Linux and Mac OSX more, Windows would already be a dead platform. ;))

I hope you didn't use the computer at the same time as your brother because Vista's EULA...


b. Number of Users. Except as provided in the Device Connections (all editions), Remote Access Technologies (Home Basic and Home Premium editions) and Other Access Technologies (Ultimate edition) sections below, only one user may use the software at a time.


...prohibits that. Also be sure to tell your brother to backup all his data because...


a. The software will from time to time validate the software, update or require download of the validation feature of the software.

...

c. If, after a validation check, the software is found not to be properly licensed, the functionality of the software may be affected.



...Vista can legally deny him access to it.

Seriously, take the time and read the license. It pretty much gives Microsoft ownership of any computer that uses Vista.

It's fairly common knowaledge (atleast I thought) that when you buy windows.. you don't "own" it. Your just buying the rights to "use" it.. and microsoft can deny you the use of it any time they want.

It's fairly common knowaledge (atleast I thought) that when you buy windows.. you don't "own" it. Your just buying the rights to "use" it.. and microsoft can deny you the use of it any time they want.

No, I don't think it is common knowledge because licensing is a pretty new concept in products marketed to the general public and very few people read EULAs. Traditionally, when you bought an item such as a book or CD you owned that copy of the original material and were free to do whatever you pleased with it short of distributing further copies to others without the permission of the creator. I think most people would find the whole license thing quite bizarre if they actually took the time to understand what they were agreeing to when they click the "I Accept" button on software that they purchased.

I'm currently sitting in my brothers computer which has Windows Vista installed and I can only say, wow! Awsome, much better, more friendly and smooth than than XP, gonna get it as fast as I can.

Do you plan to buy it?
No. My PC is too low to even run it, and BTW it doesn't want to run it. :D I prefer to get a free OS and save the money on something useful.

I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:

(I have everything useful that Vista provides, including the eye-candy, and have had it for over a year, now. If game companies would support Linux and Mac OSX more, Windows would already be a dead platform. ;))
Ditto ^ 2. If game compagnies were developing for Linux, we wouldn't face recurrent problems such as drivers, codecs, etc... That's why DirectX 10 is an important piece in Vista, they want to keep the game compagnies on Windows. Sadly Soren Johnson wasn't more punchy in his answer about it (see recent interview), but at least he is not praying DirectX 10 as the new Graal. Not to mention that DirectX 10 silently puts OpenGL off from the stage.

I try to stay away from all things Windows.

Last copies of windows my family bought was back when win 2k had just come out. We got it through my dads work, for like 20 bucks for 5 copies. If it wasnt the cheap price we wouldnt have even went to windows. So why would I even think of upgrading to Vista if I didnt even bother with XP? Now if I could only get linux to work, I could probably dump win2k too

(I have everything useful that Vista provides, including the eye-candy, and have had it for over a year, now. If game companies would support Linux and Mac OSX more, Windows would already be a dead platform. ;))

Catch 22 there. They won't support them because they have such a small % of the market. Few will go to linux and Mac because few games.

I;m sticking with XP for now. I see no reason to upgrade.

[QUOTE=Padma;4932457]I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:

(I QUOTE]

Padma, are you saying you are still on a Windows 98 computer? I just got a new Dell XPS410 with Windows XP. It blows my mind the potential of this computer... (I can't believe I stayed with Windows 98 all these years.)

stwils

[QUOTE=Padma;4932457]I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:

(I QUOTE]

Padma, are you saying you are still on a Windows 98 computer? I just got a new Dell XPS410 with Windows XP. It blows my mind the potential of this computer... (I can't believe I stayed with Windows 98 all these years.)

stwils

Nope, she uses Linux.

Not to mention that DirectX 10 silently puts OpenGL off from the stage.

Pelase enlighten me as to what OpenGL is and why M1cro$0ft doesn't like it.

OpenGL is just another API interface with your video devices. Its the soul-brother to DirectX, but in reality, openGL is used mostly for higher order rendering, in such areas as graphical design and modeling. Games are today optimized for DirectX, and OpenGL for other things, thats just how it is, and thats how it will most likely be

[QUOTE=Padma;4932457]I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:

(I QUOTE]

Padma, are you saying you are still on a Windows 98 computer? I just got a new Dell XPS410 with Windows XP. It blows my mind the potential of this computer... (I can't believe I stayed with Windows 98 all these years.)

stwils
Padma is running on *shudder* Linux :cringe:.

Padma is running on *shudder* Linux :cringe:.

*shudder*? Its free, it gives all the options windows has in usability, and if you want your games you can easily use an emulator to play them, or dual boot with windows.

Nope, she uses Linux.
Padma is a man.

Pelase enlighten me as to what OpenGL is and why M1cro$0ft doesn't like it.
I'm far from being an expert and am merely repeating what I've read. As previously said in this thread, OpenGL is an API, ie. a graphical library, used to do 2D and 3D. It is a free library, contrary to M$'s DirectX (didn't see that coming, uh ? ;) ). DirectX "wins" because it is used to design most of the recent games (including Civ4). In Vista it is believed that the way they organise things will put OpenGL further into the corner. It's just your basic move from M$ (as can be seen with OpenXML, their horrible, standardized format).

*shudder*? Its free, it gives all the options windows has in usability, and if you want your games you can easily use an emulator to play them, or dual boot with windows.
But CivGeneral is a weird dude... :mischief:

But CivGeneral is a weird dude... :mischief:
What makes a Windows users a weird dude? :hmm:

I shall quote from IRC
<stickciv> windows likes stupid users
Its a system made for dummies, its full of holes,it has its own attitude at times, and if you like those things, you have to be a tad bit weird.

*btw, Im not insinuating that you're stupid with my quote

I shall quote from IRC
<stickciv> windows likes stupid users
Its a system made for dummies, its full of holes,it has its own attitude at times, and if you like those things, you have to be a tad bit weird.

*btw, Im not insinuating that you're stupid with my quote

If I could play Oblivion and Crysis on Linux I'd switch today!

But I can't. Though I have wanted to see what it's like.

As I said, you can just install a copy on your computer, most include bootloaders with which you can dual boot. There are some people who do dthis, work on linux, when they wanna play they go onto windows.

What makes a Windows users a weird dude? :hmm:
No, I was talking about you specifically. You have very strange answers on many issues.

No, I was talking about you specifically. You have very strange answers on many issues.

But that's what makes CivGen so special!

the retarded...erh, autistic ( being politically correct here) are also special, and?

the retarded...erh, autistic ( being politically correct here) are also special, and?The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time is one of my favourite books :)

Why is it that every single thread in this forums ends up in Windows vs. Linux discussion? :)

cus thats essentially what it is in here. We have the windows fanboys and the linux freaks. And it is only in here that they can battle without spamming (too much)

I never "upgraded" to XP. Why would I want to waste money on such a terrible thing as Vista? :confused:


Padma, are you saying you are still on a Windows 98 computer? I just got a new Dell XPS410 with Windows XP. It blows my mind the potential of this computer... (I can't believe I stayed with Windows 98 all these years.)

stwilsThe last version of Windows I installed was Win2000Pro. Even though it was the best Windows ever made, it still was a problem. About 3 years ago it gave up on me, so I gave up on it. I went 100% Linux, and haven't looked back.

(I use Win2K at work, because I have to. And a couple years ago my wife bought a laptop with XP. She is often threatening to throw it out the window, but won't let me switch it to Linux because she doesn't want to leave the environment she knows....:rolleyes: )


Nope, she uses Linux.

Pelase enlighten me as to what OpenGL is and why M1cro$0ft doesn't like it.As mentioned previously, I'm a "balding, overweight, middle-aged man" ;)

DirectX and OpenGL are just an API to access the features of graphics cards. OpenGL is everything that DirectX wants to be, except proprietary. ;) The trouble is, nobody ever made an easy api for OpenGL, so when MS created DirectX.... :shrug:

Everything that can be done with DirectX can be done with OpenGL, often with better performance. But MS doesn't 'own' OpenGL, or have any control over its API, or its use, so it is antitheitcal to their concept of MS owning everything on your computer (including your data).

cus thats essentially what it is in here. We have the windows fanboys and the linux freaks. And it is only in here that they can battle without spamming (too much)It is usually a case of a Windows fanboi spouting off about how great some WIndows *thing* is, and those of us who know better pointing out the error; or a Linux fanboi pointing out some Windows deficiency, and Windows fanbois coming to dispute the fact. And since this is Computer Talk, it's all on topic. (Of course, once the trolling/flaming starts, that's another story.)

And a couple years ago my wife bought a laptop with XP. She is often threatening to throw it out the window, but won't let me switch it to Linux because she doesn't want to leave the environment she knows....:rolleyes:
I wouldnt blame her, I would not leave an OS and the enviornemnt that I have grown to know and use most of the time.


As mentioned previously, I'm a "balding, overweight, middle-aged man" ;)
I am supprised you have not placed that in your signature so no one can confuse you as a woman ;).


It is usually a case of a Windows fanboi spouting off about how great some WIndows *thing* is
Windows is great, I dont spout, I spread the Gospel of Windows! :run: ;). I am happy with XP-tan (Windows XP) :D.


, and those of us who know better pointing out the error; or a Linux fanboi pointing out some Windows deficiency, and Windows fanbois coming to dispute the fact. And since this is Computer Talk, it's all on topic.
So its almost on the same grounds as an Theist vs. Atheist, Catholic vs. Protestant, and Christianity vs. Islam argument that I see in OT?

I wouldnt blame her, I would not leave an OS and the enviornemnt that I have grown to know and use most of the time.

Exactly. It's a case of being afraid to leave the known, even when you know it is bad. You fear the alternative may be "worse". (Even when it really isn't.)

So its almost on the same grounds as an Theist vs. Atheist, Catholic vs. Protestant, and Christianity vs. Islam argument that I see in OT?
Pretty close. ;)

Except that here there is an obvious right/wrong: Linux is "right" and Windows is "wrong". :p

Except that here there is an obvious right/wrong: Linux is "right" and Windows is "wrong". :p
Bah, I dont see how Linux is "right" especialy since there so many of distributions of them. Plus no windows based games can even run on a Linux (Simmilar Case in which I would not use a MacOS). Its like there are so many Linuxes distributions its almost like its a Protestant OS (An analogy in which there are so many protestant branches).

But, I am happy with Windows XP (XP-tan) and has not caused me a major headache while running it :D.

Except that here there is an obvious right/wrong: Linux is "right" and Windows is "wrong". :p

How do MacOS, BSD, and so on fit into this right/wrong spectrum?:)

I'm going to upgrade to Vista only because I'm adventurous and will be getting a copy of it anyway..

As mentioned previously, I'm a "balding, overweight, middle-aged man"

Can I sig that? And lets keep the OT in the OT, please, for those of us who are still sane

stickciv: Certainly you may sig that. FWIW, my original statement was "I am a rarity on the internet: I *admit* that I'm a balding, overweight, middle-aged man!"

;)

Chairman Meow: They don't. :) (Or more accurately, they're "not wrong". ;))

CivGeneral: So what if there are a lot of distros. What runs on distro 'X' will also run on distro 'Y', and 'Z' (and 'A', 'B', 'C', etc). Of course, there is the caveat they must all be based on the same kernel/libraries, but that is no different than programs that run on WinXP, but not on Win98, for example.

As mentioned previously, I'm a "balding, overweight, middle-aged man" ;)


It's the name, and I tend to think of people in relation to their name, avatar, sig and posting style.

Which is why I don't look at member photo's thread, I prefer my own little image to reality.

On topic; Why are there so many different versions?

Windows is great, I dont spout, I spread the Gospel of Windows! :run: ;). I am happy with XP-tan (Windows XP) :D.
Alright. But don't ever say you'd like to get out of the matrix then (ie. choose the red pill). ;) I would never believe you.

I'm going to upgrade to Vista only because I'm adventurous and will be getting a copy of it anyway..
It has to be said that the real adventure is to get a copy of Vista. Imagine, you take the risk of surrending all your data to Microsoft !! :eek:

Why are there so many different versions?
Because Linux is completely customizable, and that's one of its great strength. You can even create your own distribution if that doesn't scare you ; if you do it right, it will be compatible with all the existing Linux distros.

It has to be said that the real adventure is to get a copy of Vista. Imagine, you take the risk of surrending all your data to Microsoft !! :eek:

Any data worth keeping won't be on my Vista partitons. ;)

<OT deleted>

And doesnt windows vista also give microsoft the right to your hardware too? Or was I just reading something else?

The Vista plan calls for hardware vendors to conform in locking you in to MS DRM/"Trusted" computing.

Well then im not upgrading is all i can say! :lol:

Lets boycott windows vista!

The Vista plan calls for hardware vendors to conform in locking you in to MS DRM/"Trusted" computing.

I still find it disturbing that windows looks at what Hardware your running and send that right back to microsoft.

I still find it disturbing that windows looks at what Hardware your running and send that right back to microsoft.

Damn imagine people at microsoft running some switchboard contraption.

At the control center....

Dave: Oh look heres another user who violated the user agreement! Lets lock his computer up since hes running vista!

A new personality for Vista-tan. A Data/Hardware Hog ;).

I still find it disturbing that windows looks at what Hardware your running and send that right back to microsoft.

Yeah, I don't really mind if like, Steam pops up and asks if they can send hardware information back [YES] or [NO]. I don't mind Microsoft knowing either, but I'd prefer to be asked.

One thing I've hated about XP is that occaisonaly windows update's something, then pops up this thing saying "Windows needs to restart in order to finish this update, you have 5 minutes to respond". This has happened while I'm in a GAME. I didn't know it was 30 seconds to restart until I accidently pressed start.

And when you click the later button it only gives you like 5 mins. >_<

Though that hasn't happened on my new comp...

DirectX and OpenGL are just an API to access the features of graphics cards. OpenGL is everything that DirectX wants to be, except proprietary. ;) The trouble is, nobody ever made an easy api for OpenGL, so when MS created DirectX.... :shrug:

Everything that can be done with DirectX can be done with OpenGL, often with better performance. But MS doesn't 'own' OpenGL, or have any control over its API, or its use, so it is antitheitcal to their concept of MS owning everything on your computer (including your data).

It's been some time since i worked with OpenGL, but when i last did it was a open graphics library with no support for sound, networking, I/O, ... like DirectX has. ;)
OpenGL's main advantage, from my perspective, is it's portability. DirectX is almost a game engine, but its API in combination with the Windows API is quite a beast to tackle.

OpenGL is an Open Graphics Library, true. That is all it needs to be. But there is also Open AL, an Open Audio Library, and other open libraries to handle the other things. And they can all work together to produce similar results to DirectX.

OpenGL is an Open Graphics Library, true. That is all it needs to be. But there is also Open AL, an Open Audio Library, and other open libraries to handle the other things. And they can all work together to produce similar results to DirectX.

Do one thing but do it well is a well known Unix programming philosophy. Libraries such as SDL, plib, and clanlib that tie all the well done parts together are what DirectX should be compared to.

Indeed. I've played many excellent games using the SDL libs. :)

If there was a Civ 4 for Linux, I would have switched a long time ago.

Cedega emulator. I think thats what its called. Allows you to play Civ 4 on linux

Civ4 (supposedly) works fine under Cedega.

(I can't verify that, as my video card is too wimpy. But it *did* install properly, and ran as well as it could given my hardware limitations.)

Civ4 (supposedly) works fine under Cedega.

(I can't verify that, as my video card is too wimpy. But it *did* install properly, and ran as well as it could given my hardware limitations.)

I can only report on the ATI 9600 and X800 AGP cards, but Civ4 works fine with the closed source drivers on both AMD64 and X86. When I use the open source r300 drivers though I get glitches with the placement of graphics in boxes...and the "chesire cat" effect. Wish I could say I enjoyed the game itself though, but I prefer Civ3 which still plays well with Cedega 4.3.2.

My ultimate wish though is that FreeCiv starts supporting flics so that all the great Civ3 units created by CivFanitics users can be imported.

DAMNT IT! OK I wont upgrade to Vista... you changed my mind and after all... I damaged my ATI graphics card ( an x800 I think, I'm not sure...)

What did you do to it? Just overheated? or something far worse?

No, I don't know, it works but there are a lot of lines and squares, exactly like when you watch TV without an antenna. I was at my friend and that morning it worked but later I brought it home and it wont work anymore. I'm going to take it to an hardware expert or something like that and see if he can do something. Hell, now I have to stick with my Nvidia MX 440 :(.

EDIT: It's an Radeon 9600.

I;m sticking with XP for now. I see no reason to upgrade.

I just saw a reason to upgrade :D

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/MarineCorps1/YES.jpg

I'm not getting Vista (if I'm forced to use it daily) even if I'm paid, say, 1,000 $. A (virtual) mutilation isn't worth some money.

I just saw a reason to upgrade :D
I dont see how thats a reason to upgrade. All I see are headahces on trying to upgrade my drivers and programs, as well as uninstall other programs :shake:.

I dont see how thats a reason to upgrade. All I see are headahces on trying to upgrade my drivers and programs, as well as uninstall other programs :shake:.

A $300 OS for FREE is a reason to upgrade.

A $300 OS for FREE is a reason to upgrade.

But why not just stay in xp considering these reasons:

Wow - It won't let me make a remix CD of my own CDs!

Wow - It won't let me convert my DVDs to play on my iPod!

And the more important reasons:

Bad Points:

1. You cede control of your computer to Microsoft.
2. You cede control of your data to Microsoft.
3. You assist Microsoft in exerting control over other personal computer users.
4. You assist Microsoft in their attempts to replace the open HTML with Microsoft's substitute.
5. You assist Microsoft in their attempt to replace the ISO standard PDF with Microsoft's non-standard, controlled substitute.
6. You assist Microsoft in maintaining their lock on OEM retail sales of personal computers.
7. You assist Microsoft in further extending their control over after-market hardware manufacturers. '

If you dont know what im talking about in reasons no 2 im afraid your lost anyway. Another hopeless consumer....

A $300 OS for FREE is a reason to upgrade.
If I offered to sell you a pet rock for $300 and then later decided to give it to you for free, would you treasure the rock forever?

(Not saying that you shouldn't take advantage of that, just commenting on the logic you're using there: just because something is labeled with a certain price, doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that price)

Meow, I'll pay you $500 for that pet rock if it keeps OS Tigers away.

A $300 OS for FREE is a reason to upgrade.
Ok, have fun having headaches trying to upgrade your drivers and programs, as well as reinstaling non-Vista compadible programs. :p

If I offered to sell you a pet rock for $300 and then later decided to give it to you for free, would you treasure the rock forever?

(Not saying that you shouldn't take advantage of that, just commenting on the logic you're using there: just because something is labeled with a certain price, doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that price)

Not saying I am going to treasure it but getting it free free would be nice.

But why not just stay in xp considering these reasons:



And the more important reasons:

Bad Points:

'

If you dont know what im talking about in reasons no 2 im afraid your lost anyway. Another hopeless consumer....

Don't own an iPod nor do I burn cds. I am also a Computer technology Major so I know about #2. I don't feel like going into it but some of those are exaggeration's.

Ok, have fun having headaches trying to upgrade your drivers and programs, as well as reinstaling non-Vista compadible programs. :p

Never said I was going to upgrade RIGHT away.

Not saying I am going to treasure it but getting it free free would be nice.
Free, free, free, free... as in beer ! You will see, one day, they'll accept going to jail for free. :crazyeye: Well, Vista is the possibility for you to pay to get much unneeded annoyance. And for what ? Aero ? :lol:

Computers is still in the prehistorical age. Nowhere else would the crappiest compagnies own the market like they are doing to day : Microsoft, Intel, etc...

Ok, have fun having headaches trying to upgrade your drivers and programs, as well as reinstaling non-Vista compadible programs. :pIf you mean installing Vista via the upgrade process, then I don't know how well that works. But I've had very few problems on a fresh install.

The install took a little less than half an hour. Afterwards there was no driver hunting (video card, printer, drawing tablet were detected upon connection and worked flawlessly), and none of the apps I use have exhibited compatibility problems. Visual Studio 2005, TortoiseSVN, Win32 ports of GNU utilities, Paint.net, some Xvid codec I downloaded somewhere, and a bunch of my games (including every single Civ game I own) all work. I regularly access data off my file server, and have watched DVDs, ripped CDs, and streamed images and music to my Xbox 360.

One thing I keep seeing here is "Vista has issues/will stop you from doing this/sucks" without any specifics. Are these comments simply hearsay, or from first-hand experience? If the latter, I'd love to hear more specifics.

With the above in mind, here are the things I dislike:

- It feels a bit slower than XP. Not a whole lot, but it's noticeable if you dual boot between the two.
- Flip3D may look neat in screenshots, but I still use Alt+Tab over it. Both have live updating views of windows, but in Flip3D all except the front window are mostly covered by the preceding window. There's no window caption. Overall it just isn't as useful as Alt+Tab.
- Backup app has been dumbed down. You can't select individual files to backup; instead there are general categories like "pictures" and "documents". This simplification will work well with people like my mom, but power users won't like it.
- UI feels rough in places. Some Control Panel applets still have basically the same UI from XP (Display, Keyboard, Mouse, Screen Saver settings...). Other apps have a new page UI (Desktop Background, Windows Update, Programs, Power Options, Network settings...). The overall mixture creates a disjointed experience.
- Why so many editions??? There should just be Server and Client.

I do like most of the changes and few features, however, so Vista is staying on my computer.

Simple solution to getting the 300$ OS for free, take it, and sell it on Ebay. I think there are enough idiots out there who will actually buy it.

Hey, there's an article on The National on CBC coming up, I'll post what they say here.

EDIT: It had a blurb from a M$ spokes guy at the beginning, some clip of Bill Gates mentioning his daughter and son (he got laid?) complaining that they don't like him being able to track their online habits (I would have thought they'd have their OWN computers?) and then it lists 4 common complainst from internet bloggers;
1) Uses a tonne of memory
2) will only run on a mroe expensive/newer computer
3) can't remember
4) The constant security pop-ups are ANOYING

So it was rather balanced news clip. However the article on CBC News is purely pro-vista.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/windows-vista2.html

Hey, there's an article on The National on CBC coming up, I'll post what they say here.

EDIT: It had a blurb from a M$ spokes guy at the beginning, some clip of Bill Gates mentioning his daughter and son (he got laid?) complaining that they don't like him being able to track their online habits (I would have thought they'd have their OWN computers?) and then it lists 4 common complainst from internet bloggers;
1) Uses a tonne of memory
2) will only run on a mroe expensive/newer computer
3) can't remember
4) The constant security pop-ups are ANOYING

So it was rather balanced news clip. However the article on CBC News is purely pro-vista.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/windows-vista2.htmlMy computer specs: AMD Athlon 2700+, 1 GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB, 20 GB partition. I looked up my NewEgg invoice, and apparently built the machine summer of 2003 for $1,300. It's nearly 4 years old, yet runs Vista fine. The only upgrade since has been an additional PVR card, and a 24" monitor, the latter of which adds an additional memory impact when running Aero due to the increased resolution.

Vista does consume more memory than XP, but I have enough RAM where this generally is not an issue (meaning I do not experience excessive swapping). I haven't disabled any services yet, including services that do not exist under XP such as the search indexer, SuperFetch, and ReadyBoost. I'm also running Aero, which has a rather large memory impact of its own (it varies depending on the number of open windows, but can be ~100 MB or so).

And lastly, people claiming that the security pop ups are annoying are a pet peeve of mine. Several points:

1. Yes, you get a lot of them during the first few days when you install and configure system stuff. But now during regular usage? I only see them when I run an installation program. I suppose it can be an issue if you fiddle with your hardware daily, defrag manually, install stuff everyday, and save stuff in non-standard locations--all of these will result in a security pop up. The last one is what seems to annoy people the most.
2. Regular users likely don't care, but I like to think of it from a security standpoint as well. To me, preventing users from willy-nilly saving and modifying stuff in C:\, C:\Windows, C:\Program Files is a good thing. I'm sure you've heard stories of people trying to reorganize the DLLs in system32, or deleting stuff out of Program Files. My mom shouldn't be touching any of those things. Moreover, this prevents stuff like drive-by spyware from deeply embedding itself in the system, and thus giving spyware scanners an easier time removing them.
3. Vista+UAC is better than XP as non-administrator. I've ran XP like that for years, so I know what it feels like (the most aggravating thing was the inability to view the date/time applet under XP as non-admin). And yes, I do realize that the situation is better under Linux, but it's still an improvement over XP nonetheless.
4. If the security popups are really annoying, disable them. Search for 'UAC group policy'. However, I'm sure you'll agree that most people are not power users, and therefore I believe the default popup settings are good.
5. "What's the point? Users will click Continue anyway!" Probably, but it'll at least raise awareness among software developers. Now they'll know it's not okay to save stuff in \system32 anymore, or to create logs in c:\temp. This'll lead to better apps in the future, and allow future versions of Windows to have increased security. And for those worried about it breaking apps that write to Program Files (id games are notorious for that), Vista virtualizes writes to Program Files and certain parts of the registry so that such apps continue working.

My computer specs: AMD Athlon 2700+, 1 GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB, 20 GB partition. I looked up my NewEgg invoice, and apparently built the machine summer of 2003 for $1,300. It's nearly 4 years old, yet runs Vista fine. The only upgrade since has been an additional PVR card, and a 24" monitor, the latter of which adds an additional memory impact when running Aero due to the increased resolution.
What about my Dell XPS Laptop that is a year old? I doubt that my laptop would even be free of headaches. As for your statement about "heresy", I actualy ran the "Dell Windows Vista Assessment Tool" and the "Vista Upgrade Advisor" and it told me that I have drivers that needs to be updated (The drivers currently work fine in XP) as well as programs that I have to uninstall. Am I going to waste my time trying to uninstalling programs and updating drivers? No, so I am sticking with XP-tan (Link to what I am talking about). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-tan#Windows_XP)

Dell is already claiming they have sold tens of thousands of vista machines. :rolleyes:

2. Regular users likely don't care, but I like to think of it from a security standpoint as well. To me, preventing users from willy-nilly saving and modifying stuff in C:\, C:\Windows, C:\Program Files is a good thing. I'm sure you've heard stories of people trying to reorganize the DLLs in system32, or deleting stuff out of Program Files. My mom shouldn't be touching any of those things. Moreover, this prevents stuff like drive-by spyware from deeply embedding itself in the system, and thus giving spyware scanners an easier time removing them.
Linux has been doing this for 15 years, and Unix for 30 years. You can get Linux for free, while Vista costs a lot of money. So why should I pay for something I can get for free ?

3. Vista+UAC is better than XP as non-administrator. I've ran XP like that for years, so I know what it feels like (the most aggravating thing was the inability to view the date/time applet under XP as non-admin). And yes, I do realize that the situation is better under Linux, but it's still an improvement over XP nonetheless.
Ha !

Dell is already claiming they have sold tens of thousands of vista machines. :rolleyes:
No, you can get Vista THROUGH Dell.

No, you can get Vista THROUGH Dell.

No. DELL is claiming to have sold tens of thousands of vista machines over the weekend.

No. 2 PC-maker Dell said it had sold tens of thousands of Vista systems over the weekend, when it began taking orders. Traffic to the Dell site jumped 20% from a year ago.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2007-01-29-vista-ballmer_x.htm

Linux has been doing this for 15 years, and Unix for 30 years. You can get Linux for free, while Vista costs a lot of money. So why should I pay for something I can get for free ?


Ha !Because then I have to deal with Linux's problems. If you have the time and inclination to learn how to setup and maintain an OS, then sure, but I've been down that path with Red Hat, Gentoo, Mandrake, and Slackware in the past, and while things may've improved since with Ubuntu, I'm not counting on it (although I do intend on installing Ubuntu once I have the space). The price of Linux is great. So is the time I had to spend on it.

And as a nitpick, NT has had file security and the ability to run as non-admin since at least NT 4, a 10 year old OS in a line of OSs that's only 13 years old. Doing those things has always been possible for me, it was just a bit rough from a UI standpoint until Vista.

In response to CivGeneral, if the compatibility advisor says you need to update drivers and reinstall apps, and you're perfectly happy with XP, then great. You have no reason to switch; stick with XP. But don't make it sound like all Vista users will automatically have problems.

No. DELL is claiming to have sold tens of thousands of vista machines over the weekend.
Incorrect, you can buy Windows Vista through Dell. The same said if you can buy Windows Vista through Staples, Best Buy, or CompUSA.

You may be a computer major, but I know someone who is an economics/business major and will disagree with you.

But don't make it sound like all Vista users will automatically have problems.
No OS is free of problems, Mister.

Incorrect, you can buy Windows Vista through Dell. The same said if you can buy Windows Vista through Staples, Best Buy, or CompUSA.

You may be a computer major, but I know someone who is an economics/business major and will disagree with you.



Did you even look at that link? Dell is the one saying it had sold tens of thousands vista systems. Computer systems. I know Dell also sells the OS. See I even found it on their site

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productlisting.aspx?c=us&category_id=5572&cs=19&l=en&~ck=anav