Hum hum! Ilove this thing, but it seems if you attack a person with it they become cautious to you despite diplomatic relations? Does this go away after awhile?

I don't recall that being the case, and if so it is a bug. The AI should view HN units as basicially barbarians.

I don't recall that being the case, and if so it is a bug. The AI should view HN units as basicially barbarians.

Yet, the barbarians attack them???

I really enjoy Hidden Nationality element that has been added to the game. It does take some getting used to and you tend to lose a few of your Hidden Nationality units as they are killed by civs you are at peace with.

But, I never figured out why barbs attack HN units.

PS. Getting the Wonder that lets you build Hidden Nationality units can change the game around, especially late game (marathon setting) when you can start producing Hidden Nationality Tier IV units and send them off to attack other civs without having to declare war.

It is great in late game as the AI goes wild with Defensive Pacts!

Other civs may not know whose civ those units belong to, but they know they aren't theirs. The barbs are the same way and they are more than happy to attack HN units.

Last night a pirate ship attacked one of my cities (I suppose by mistake when moving). It was kind of amusing since there was a settler inside (so I could see who the owner was). The only problem with HN is the movement. I've lost sometimes a full stack of HN units because they moved from one point to another through a well defenced city (so they died).

I think it would be a decent balance change if hidden nationality units couldn't attack cities. It would solve some of the movement issues and glitches, anyway.

I think it would be a decent balance change if hidden nationality units couldn't attack cities. It would solve some of the movement issues and glitches, anyway.

I agree with this as I have lost many HN units moving them a distance with the mouse only to have them try to go through a city where they are killed. However, I do like having the option of strong HN units being able to attack AI civs in late-game to get around the Defensive Pact Lockup that IMO destroys many late-games. I want war dammit!

Also, in the bonehead department, from time to time I try to move one of HN units on a tile occupied by one of my own nationality units. The result, of course, is that one or the other dies. Stupid!

I agree with this as I have lost many HN units moving them a distance with the mouse only to have them try to go through a city where they are killed. However, I do like having the option of strong HN units being able to attack AI civs in late-game to get around the Defensive Pact Lockup that IMO destroys many late-games. I want war dammit!

Also, in the bonehead department, from time to time I try to move one of HN units on a tile occupied by one of my own nationality units. The result, of course, is that one or the other dies. Stupid!

Why should defensive pacts stop you? If you want war, you'd better be ready to accept WAR!!!

Also, in the bonehead department, from time to time I try to move one of HN units on a tile occupied by one of my own nationality units. The result, of course, is that one or the other dies. Stupid!

What's this? Your HN units get killed by your own units?

I'm confused, I never saw that happen to my summoned (HN) tigers.

What's this? Your HN units get killed by your own units?

I'm confused, I never saw that happen to my summoned (HN) tigers.

My either. i've kept pact of the nilhorn hill giants in stacks with my attacking forces, and nobody died. (save for the enemy of course, but who cares about them)

He means that his HN units took teh "shortest path" through an enemy city, which of course got them killed.

He means that his HN units took teh "shortest path" through an enemy city, which of course got them killed.

He said that in the first paragraph though. The second paragraph sounds like he's talking about his own units killing his HN units...

I know it sounds crazy, but I have had it happen - it shocked the hell out of me too!!!

But, think about it...

If the unit is Hidden Nationality, why should it differentiate between landing on a tile with your unit or another civ's?

The same for having a HN on a tile. The enemy doesn't know the nationality but attacks all units that it knows is not its own nationality.

Yikes, I'm confusing myself now!

Maybe there was another civ's unit on the same tile as mine and THAT unit killed my HN unit.

Sorry about that....

I know it sounds crazy, but I have had it happen - it shocked the hell out of me too!!!

But, think about it...

If the unit is Hidden Nationality, why should it differentiate between landing on a tile with your unit or another civ's?

The same for having a HN on a tile. The enemy doesn't know the nationality but attacks all units that it knows is not its own nationality.

Yikes, I'm confusing myself now!

Maybe there was another civ's unit on the same tile as mine and THAT unit killed my HN unit.

Sorry about that....

Yeah, an HN unit should never attack your own units. But if there was another civs units in your stack it would have attacked that.

Yeah, an HN unit should never attack your own units. But if there was another civs units in your stack it would have attacked that.

What about in the case that you have a unit automated. Like you summon a tiger with a druid and send it out automated. If you build a hidden nationality unit and then move it out of the city wouldn't the tiger see it as an enemy and attack it since theres no way for it to determine its true nationality?

What about in the case that you have a unit automated. Like you summon a tiger with a druid and send it out automated. If you build a hidden nationality unit and then move it out of the city wouldn't the tiger see it as an enemy and attack it since theres no way for it to determine its true nationality?

It shouldn't:


bool PUF_isEnemy(const CvUnit* pUnit, int iData1, int iData2)
{
FAssertMsg(iData1 != -1, "Invalid data argument, should be >= 0");

//FfH: Added by Kael 09/11/2006
if (pUnit->isHiddenNationality())
{
if (iData1 != pUnit->getOwner())
{
CvPlot* pPlot = pUnit->plot();
CvCity* pCity;
bool bBypass = false;

if (pPlot->isCity())
{
pCity = pPlot->getPlotCity();
if (pCity->getOwner() == pUnit->getOwner())
{
bBypass = true;
}
}

if (bBypass == false)
{
return true;
}
}
}
//FfH: End Add

return atWar(GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iData1).getTeam(), pUnit->getTeam());
}


iData1 is the owner of the unit so the bolded line checks to see if the owner of the unit is the same as the owner of the unit it is considering. If it is it treats it as if hidden nationality wasnt in effect.

equipment(like the orthus axe)
i would assume this will be implemented by having a barbarian equipment "unit"
using the opposite of hidden nationality.(is not enemy or we,)

equipment(like the orthus axe)
i would assume this will be implemented by having a barbarian equipment "unit"
using the opposite of hidden nationality.(is not enemy or we,)

Probably. 0 movement, capturable, etc etc.

Much like the Dragon's Hoard.

Also, in the bonehead department, from time to time I try to move one of HN units on a tile occupied by one of my own nationality units. The result, of course, is that one or the other dies. Stupid!

I think he referes to following:
you have for example 3units without hidden nationality and one with.
You want to get you units in position near the borders to start a war.
You forget one of your units is hidden...
You put them all in one stack, end turn.
Suddenly 500+ units attack your poor hidden unit (okay slight exaggeration)->
one unit less (I always loose my priests that way after i build the council wonder).

Hmmm I have my giants fortified in cities, and with the axe =P

I think though, HN should have a % chance of the enemy civ finding out and declaring war. Think of it as them torturing info out of them, and maybe a wonder that decreases that chance. I mean if I got attacked by a Golem or a paladin or some other non-barbaric unit I'd think something fishy was up but I wouldn't know who was hitting me.

Course that's probably easier said then done to do ; ; It'd at least give a risk factor to HN's since to me they seem a little off the charts :S Cept a few glitches that you can overcome with manual movement being able to just attack people with no reprecussion is pretty strong.

Even if you knew what Civ it was- would you do anything about it? When the HN mechanic was first introduced, I likened it to Sir Francis Drake. Sure, the guy got knighted by the queen of England, but to do anything more than hunt him down, the French and all them would have to commit to all-out war! Far easier to just protect your ships.

personally id rather just have a negative diplomatic modifier "you fund bandits and pirates" and have the modifier get worse the more hidden nationality units you have.

These HN units are so lame. Especially HN summoners.
And that's why i like them so much.
I'm not really experienced player, but i found HN one of the most interesting promotions in the game. I'd like to see that in Vanilla CivIV as well.
BTW if your priests get killed, why not use declare nationality?

Because if you have one city with the wonder and produce in units in lets say 5 cities its easy to forget that you have one unit with hn...

I've a little question ? i attack a friend in multiplayer games with a HN shadows . He get a message that i attack him . Is this normal ? ( still playing with version h )

i was thinking about what sureshot said about funding bandits and pirates. Maybe there should be the possibility of your HN units revolting and joining the barbs or enemy civ.

Hahaha civkid that'd be hilarious, espicially since I pumped all my last National units from the city with HN so I can wage bloody fun wars =P

-hits enter for next turn-
-90% of last units revolt into barbarians-
Ohhh ****... Mommy?

Hmm I agree Sureshot, sounds like a pretty good thing for me, I mean the modifier isn't so bad so it makes HN still nice, but you wouldn't wanna do it to people your trying to make friends with, I mean you can seriously cripple someone by sending HN units all over their place and pillage their area like a mad and there's no drawbacks? I think my main problem with HN is that there's no real drawbacks, except other civ units attacking you which for the most part just feeds me EXP. Oh and manually moving your units, woe is you:crazyeye: =P

would also make sense if NATIONAL units couldnt become hidden NATIONALITY units lol

would also make sense if NATIONAL units couldnt become hidden NATIONALITY units lol

:lol: Or just make it so that no hidden nationality units can attack cities? That's what I'd prefer. If you can't hold your countryside against bandits, you deserve to have it pillaged; but your cities are another matter.

also, might be good if hidden nationality units could break nationality as well (intentionally via an ability), turning them into barbs.

if they were bandits it would also make since if you were to lose some gold every turn theyre in your cities. They'd take a little here and there on their journey.

Hahahaha sure yes its quite hilarious with nationality...
Phalanx from (city) But you don't know my nationality!...
Wait a minutee.... Didn't you say they're from that city...
Nope.. Nope..:mischief: I lied..:crazyeye:
I hate you....

Anyways, I definately think you should have to fund HN units, since Mercs are the big ones it makes sense, you keep paying a mercenary hence why those armies are really crappy to have around because they're very costly ; ;. And of course, stronger the unit higher the cost. + a civ penality for anyone you attack, the you fund barbarians and such thing.

It'd sorta balance it out since, like I said before, I built all my Nationality units in the HN city, so now I have like 20+ HN National powerful units that are getting ready to slaughter =P + Chip in I believe a HN War Machine. Scary stuff :cry:

Hahaha well I'd like to correct something I found out before my pillaging raid. HN National units still declare war if you go into their borders ; ; all my hardwork for nothing XD Oh well =P so we can scratch that off our list

Btw, does someone know how come barbarian animals (thus HN) do not attack the Clan of Embers? Eg tigers summoned by all other civs are more than happy to attack you.

I do not know why, but I imagine it is kinda like since technically animals are HN barb units the barbs still look at the Clan as allies so they leave them alone. I have seen an animal attack a clan unit but it happened only once.

I would prefer it if all HN units had a much increased support cost.