Please post suggestions for new city sites here.

The 'big picture' c. 1100 BC.

I think this spot SE of our capital is our current #1 priority to settle. We are racing the Egyptians and possibly Americans (and Romans?) for this area.

Our second priority for building a city should be NW of Eyr. It's the best land we have! It should be placed on the coast without overlapping our present cities.

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/1854/nw3jd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i totally comply to your proposals.
but i am not sure wheter the city north of eyr should have priority to take a possible intrusion spot for a enemy settler.

@donsig - i definately like your second choice, but i feel our first two priorities, as far as city placement goes, are different. For defensive purposes our first placement should be on the desert peninsula SSW of Civanator (catches 3 fish after borders expand), and the second placement should be SW of that in the forests 1 tile west of the hill with the horse. Hopefully, i will be picking up a copy of photoshop or some such program to edit screenshots.

I entirely agree about your first suggestion. That city is a must have. I think the one NW of Eyr can wait, maybe abe a third or fourth priority, as we will notice someone trying to settler it long before they actually do. My second priority is the spot on the hill 2 tiles SW of the iron near Civinator. This will seal our borders on the eastern side, as well as being a very good city spot.

*Note: I was replying to Donsig's original post, but Cyc posted just before I did.

I agree with Cyc on the first two priorities, but we seem to have them in a different order.

The desert spot SSW of Civanator would overlap the spot that has been suggested for a 2 fish, 2 incense, 2 gold & a horse city. Probably not a big deal BUT I'm not so sure that 'sealing our borders' should be the reason to build the 3 fish city first. While 3 Fish City might give us a continuous border from it to Civanator I doubt that would stop a wayward Egyptian settler from passing through on the way to settling on the other side of the inland sea. True, if Egypt entered our borders we could tell them to leave but would that cause them to declare war, pop on the other side of 3 Fish or have no effect at all?

As for the NW of Eyr - that seems the best land we have given our poor terrain overall. I don't see the sense in delaying putting a city there.

EDIT: This is a public thread. Citizens are free to post screen shots illustrating their suggestions.

Originally posted by donsig
The desert spot SSW of Civanator would overlap the spot that has been suggested for a 2 fish, 2 incense, 2 gold & a horse city. Probably not a big deal BUT I'm not so sure that 'sealing our borders' should be the reason to build the 3 fish city first. While 3 Fish City might give us a continuous border from it to Civanator I doubt that would stop a wayward Egyptian settler from passing through on the way to settling on the other side of the inland sea. True, if Egypt entered our borders we could tell them to leave but would that cause them to declare war, pop on the other side of 3 Fish or have no effect at all?

As for the NW of Eyr - that seems the best land we have given our poor terrain overall. I don't see the sense in delaying putting a city there.

EDIT: This is a public thread. Citizens are free to post screen shots illustrating their suggestions.

I'm not sure that the desert spot you speak of has been mentioned. I proposed the hill on the coast near it, 2 tiles SW of the iron near CIvinator.

Edit: Ahh, now I understand. I misread Cyc's post. Anyway, i think the spots I am talking about are clear from my posts.

eyrei: It doesn't matter if we're talknig about the desert spot or a hill near it. The points I brought up apply to either. I'd like to hear a reply to the points I've raised. For all I know i'm missing something.:confused:

Originally posted by donsig
eyrei: It doesn't matter if we're talknig about the desert spot or a hill near it. The points I brought up apply to either. I'd like to hear a reply to the points I've raised. For all I know i'm missing something.:confused:

I guess you are referring to my desire to settle to the south and east before the NW. My reason for this is that other civs will grab these spots very soon if we do not. We can build at least one settler, maybe two in the time it would take for another civ's settler to cross our lands on its way to the area north of Eyr. I would like to build 4 more settlers as quickly as possible, sending two to the areas I described, one to the northwest, and one to the south of Fox's nest, in that order.

I can see how the city placements have been chosen (military defense & claiming borders) but I feel we are making border limits at the expensive of good production. As a result, we have only 1 city capable of generating settlers & our expansion could be faster. I think strategic land can be claimed faster with more settlers.

I vote for the S spot right between the horses & wheat. This spot will be capable of generating settlers for all it's surrounding area in no time. As a second spot, I vote for the beautiful grasslands above Eyr. Maybe we can fit 2 cities in here. They will be very productive.

My argument is to provide each border with a local settler generator to provide the quickest expansion. The other towns by that generator may start military or cultural expansion, as necessary.

Edit: BTW, separate threads for separate issues is a much better idea. Reduces the clutter of each dept, especially when decisions get transferred from dept to dept. Esp if citizens are not interested in what 1 particular dept has to say or do not guess that a particular decision would be made in 1 thread (i.e. wonder building). I would recommend using this type of threads for some major decisions or overall preferences, if possible.

I'm glad to see this thread, and think it will be an active one for MANY turns to come :goodjob:

A lot of good ideas...

- The horses SE of the capital have become (in my mind) the top priority due to the Bablyonian declaration. Just do NOT want our city closest to them and most likely to be attacked the capital itself! And not 'just' a decoy, but a great spot.
I like Donsig's exact spot, catching TWO fish, horses, spices, and coast, and having the hill bonus.
- Along with that spot Eyrei's suggestion of the hill near civinator is solid, catching the wheat and decent food.

However... Cyc's idea *as a pair* has merit. At first when I saw "West of horses" i thought it crazy, another low food town is not what we need. But... tag-team that with the desert tile settlement near civinator, and the latter gets those lovely fishes, plus wheat and coast, and all that yummy food doesn't go to waste.

So I'm just pointing out not to "compromise" by taking Cyc's horse-west spot along with Eyrei's Hill-wheat spot.

Which is better? Tough call -- if you plan another city between horsetown and the capital, the "Hill" spot near horse is better, but if you're looking to deny settlements to foreign AI with as few cities as possible, Cyc's horse location plus a quick temple is solid.

chiefpaco, I agree there should be at least one city switched to settler from the current save, but don't like the spot you suggest in SE -- it misses the spices which would be of huge benefit, and it encroaches then on the SW-of-Civinator spot.

Eyr area... gosh, it's just way below the others in terms of *immediate* priority, but its great land and could pay for itself if our outlook is just slightly longer.

Since we're talking city placement, may I re-iterate just how ***LOVELY*** the sites of Washington, New York and Philadelphia are. I mean, honestly... what do you guys think about those as city sites???? (From a domestic and production point of view, really, don't construe thas as mongery :P ) Talk about a settler farm, and talk about productive land. And it even comes pre-irrigated!

General Charis

I agree with you Charis. The American lands is very good. And if we ever take them, it would be great to have the FP in that area.

I think in the second pic--the coast above Eyr--the city should be placed directly west of the horses in order to get a good city there.

Of course, that is if you want one city to maximize the good space...

Ok, we have some suggestions. now how do we go about making a collective decision?

Timetable: Assuming a) we don't switch the wonder to a settler and b) only 10 turns are played the next round then we do not have to decide on the exact city placement right now. A settler or more may be done near the end of the next 10 turns so a general direction of where it (or they) should head should suffice for now.

So we have to know how many settlers we should be producing now and the general area we should settle with those units.

There will probably be two settlers available around the end of the next session, as it seems most people support switching Eyr to a settler.

Donsig: There is no guarantee that only ten turns will be played, though it is more and more likely the further we get in the game. I would imagine this will hold true once we enter the middle ages, but the costitution does support playing more than 10 turns at times.

Posted by eyrei

I guess you are referring to my desire to settle to the south and east before the NW.

No, I was questioning why you would build on the east side of the inland sea before the west side. I'm thinking that if we build on the east side an Egyptian settler will just wander right through and settle on the west side of that big lake.

Originally posted by eyrei
I entirely agree about your first suggestion. That city is a must have. I think the one NW of Eyr can wait, maybe abe a third or fourth priority, as we will notice someone trying to settler it long before they actually do.

I caution though that our rivals have all discovered map making, and will be able to end around us with luck, as the cultural boundaries to our west have leaks in them over the coast.

On the other hand, I agree with the general concept that the spice/horse/gold/fish are S of Civinator holds the best combination of production and defense.

Bill
Trade Leader

So basically, we have suggested 6 possible city sites. They are:

1. Our very western tip (on the grasslands)--->Purple
2. South of the horses (on a hill)--->Blue
3. Desert peninsula (SSW of Civanator)--->Green
4. West of the Horses (in forest)--->Yellow
(Actually 3 & 4 would be a team)
5. 2 tiles SW of iron (near Civanator)--->Gold
6. close to #2 & #4, but between horses and wheat--->Red

we need to trim our options down. any suggestions?

OK, Eyrei. Here's your color-coded graphic:

well, it will be on the next available reply....

Originally posted by Cyc
So basically, we have suggested 6 possible city sites. They are:

1. Our very western tip (on the grasslands)
2. South of the horses (on a hill)
3. Desert peninsula (SSW of Civanator)
4. West of the Horses (in forest)
(Actually 3 & 4 would be a team)
5. 2 tiles SW of iron (near Civanator)
6. close to #2 & #4, but between horses and wheat

we need to trim our options down. any suggestions?

Good summary, Cyc.:goodjob:

I suggest someone with more skill than I post these as screenshots, so that everyone can make an informed decision. Then, we can post a poll. I don't think any of these settlers will actually be finished during the next session, so we should have time. The poll will not be binding, but unless a majority of the cabinet disagrees with the results, they will be followed.

Originally posted by eyrei


I suggest someone with more skill than I post these as screenshots, so that everyone can make an informed decision. Then, we can post a poll. I don't think any of these settlers will actually be finished during the next session, so we should have time. The poll will not be binding, but unless a majority of the cabinet disagrees with the results, they will be followed.

I would, but my computer can only take 8-bit pictures, or so says the critics :) j/k

Donsig: There is no guarantee that only ten turns will be played, though it is more and more likely the further we get in the game. I would imagine this will hold true once we enter the middle ages, but the costitution does support playing more than 10 turns at times.

Life has no guarantees. The constitution calls for 10 turns every other day which can be changed 'on demand'. That's a rather vague clause which irks me but that's because I'm a poly sci major who takes constitutions more seriously than I should.;) From a planning stand point we need a good idea how much will be played so we know how far to plan ahead.

As for the six suggestion summarized, the last five pertain to the same general area while the first is off by itself. Assuming we will have two settlers available at roughly the same time we must first decide if both will go towards Lake Phoenatica or whether one will go NW of Eyr.

If both go towards the lake the five suggested spots so far are in the attached screen shot.

I am not opposed to sending both to the lake since I fear Egyptian squatters will be there soon - and they are in position to go either north or south of the lake.

EDIT: Option #7 added per eyrei's post below.

Yeah. I just posted a poll to clear up which region people want to settle first. Then we can use this screenshot for the next poll, if the vote is for the SE.

Could you add a seventh option one tile NW and then one tile north of site 6, as that would be where the third city should go if we go with my suggestions.

All right everyone, let me know if I made any mistakes labelling those options.

I don't think any of these settlers will actually be finished during the next session, so we should have time.

Khatovar's settler is due in 13 turns so if, say, 15 turns are played our President will have to at least know what direction to start moving it.

Also, if Eyr abandons the temple for now and switches to a settler then it will be ready in less than 10 turns. Eyr has 15 shields already produced and it is cranking out 3/turn. That's enough shields for the settler in 5 turns. however, Eyr is size one, set to grow next turn. It has grassland (w/o shield) available so it should still have a 3 food surplus/turn after growing which will make it size 3 in 7 more turns. By sacrificing 3 turns of shield production (while the settler waits for Eyr to grow to size 3) we get a settler in 8 turns. 5 turns later Khatovar's would be ready.

ok, everyone and anyone who wants to, should choose two spots for the up coming poll.

1 is purple
2 is blue
3 is green
4 is yellow
5 is gold
6 is red

2+3

i hope i understood you there

I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking....if you're color blind and the descriptions and circles don't work for you, let me know...

2 first, 1 second, then I think we should consider preparing for a halt in expansion to build up some defensive forces.

Why not use the colors?

I like the Blue(2) spot, and the Green(3). For the South area. The Red(6) can also be built if it's location is moved north one tile, to the hill.

I don't know about the Purple(1) spot though... I would like to have two cities in that area. So if the Purple spot is moved SE one tile or two. We can have a city on that little forrest that sticks out, and one on the hill SW of the Incense.

From Donsig's image, #5 and then #2. I would also like two cities in the NW corner. One 1 tile SE of the purple dot, and one on the one tile outcropping to the North.

I also like #2 (blue) and #5 (orange) but will be happy as long as we place cities on both the east and west coast of Lake Phoenatica.

for the nw corner, i would propose 2 cities.
the red one will secure the lands in the upper left and the blue one the land between our cites against ememy settlers. we could then concentrate on our southern expansion without having to fear another settler going there (just ignore the purple spot, i took this from the image above).

To make my suggestion for the North West corner more clear, I did a little image.

The Blue and red small dots are not any final suggestion for what tiles they should use. They just show some of the tiles the city can use.

The questionmark is the Horse. It should probably be used by the Blue city.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
To make my suggestion for the North West corner more clear, I did a little image.

The Blue and red small dots are not any final suggestion for what tiles they should use. They just show some of the tiles the city can use.

The questionmark is the Horse. It should probably be used by the Blue city.

My thoughts exactly for the NW corner.:goodjob:

i can agree to the blue and red, but shouldnt the green be a bit more se/s to secure more land initially?
with this and some more of our city earning more culture, we could secure the whole northern province with only 3 cities

The green is placed so that it can get 4 Grassland Tiles. Only stealing one of them from the red (Which I think it can do).

We could have one city more south of the Green, later.

Well, we have one settler. Where should it go? Should we make another?

Note that there is band of Egyptian squatters near Lake Phoenatica and they may be headed for the west coast...

... Do we try to beat then there or do we send our settler NW of Eyr?

i think it wont make sense building a city at the frontline. it will just split our defense so much. we a high-production city quick, so i would vote for nw

The Egyptians have prevented us from building in our chosen spot in the SE but we still have a settler in the area to make a city. Where shall it go? I think the question now is whether it should settler east or west of Lake Phoenatica. Here is the west (710 BC). East in next post.

I think that settler should go to the spot on Lake Phoenatica to the east. I believe it was priority #2 in an earlier discussion of this.

The east coast of Lake Phoenatica (710 BC).

Yes, the east coast was second priority but we should look at the situation in light of the new Egyptian city. We may reach the same conclusion we may not...

This citizen is happy that the Egyptians built a city that will surely be happy to join our culturally superior empire.

However, I am not happy that we continue to choose cities based in key military areas but marginal on the population production. Again, I would be much happier to see a city capable of generating settlers. Food is perhaps the most important resource early to help grow quickly. Futhermore, it is much better, IMHO, if we can claim the generous food squares without depending on a border expansion.

If the settler must set up SE somewhere, I'd like to see it get a shot to gain the wheat square. I don't mind the 6 on the East bank from a previous post, or maybe even 1 square N of the wheat, on the plains & between the hill, forest, & lake.

The NE must be settled next, in my view. Afterwards, we may wish to box off the Romans too, putting one by that fish in the West, if we still have that available.

Originally posted by chiefpaco
The NE must be settled next, in my view.

chiefpaco speaks with wisdom IMHO. We are losing the all important early game battle of "baby makin'". I think it is becoming critical to get a settler up to the NW grasslands. I know this is a priority to VP as well.

The next best position for this southern settler would seem to be the east side of the lake. It would firm up our cultural barrier to the Egyptians, and probably hasten the flip of these new isolated Egyptian settlers.

Bill
Trade Leader

Falcon02 posted an excellent suggestion in the Domestic Department thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19192&pagenumber=4). It is militarily vulnerable, but with a new spearman planned for Fox Nest, one of the spearman there could move forward ahead of time. Though not farther from the capital than the Roman warriors.

My suggestion is to build 2 tiles SW of the iron near Civinator, on the hill. This will immediately provide food from the grassland, and once a cultural building is built, it will have access to wheat, and a fresh water lake.