TP's post here after playing the save.

Warrior built, it doesn't look like we decided on the next build yet, but warrior is fine for now. Worker roads, warrior E, lux to 20%. We're the only team at size 2. Everybody else also started with a warrior.

Picture removed: no information not in later picture.

It seems like a good idea to post that you're playing then to edit it with log, pictures, etc. to avoid two people playing at the same time.

Warrior went E, sees that the water is a lake, but coast is nearby. Spot 2 BGs and a sugar for the second city.
The Council's (Korea) city The Chamber has grown to size 2.

The warrior can continue northeast in some fashion I suppose.

Picture removed: had nothing over next post

There still hasn't been much discussion regarding the next build, but without analyzing it a worker seems good (I'll consider it and post my thoughts elsewhere). Science to 90% and lux to 10%, which doesn't actually do anything, just because it makes me feel better. Mysticism dropped to 19 turns with the new road. Warrior went E, found another BG and more water than I thought there would be. Two more cities at size 2, one of them must now be at 4spt.

we have been emailed the save (but I don't have time to play tonight)

If Sir Tim or Dags or RF or anyone else can play, please do so. If not, I will get to it by midnight (3 hours from now).

Turn 10

Move new worker Man at Work to bg N
Worker Hammertime start chopping
Warrior Craig Reid moves NW
Graceland set to Granny
Don't know how to do thumbnails, sorry

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/dagisfroken/3550.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/dagisfroken/f113550.jpg

Graceland expands; switch forest to BG
switch Graceland to settler
Man at Work roads
Craig Reid NW, probably can head N next time to check out the peninsula and head W if it looks like a dead end
Freedom Central (Sumeria) to size 2
Sumeria probably had a lux hooked up since our approval rate had been second, and now is first
Now third in GNP: Sumeria higher and somebody built a road?
19% disease still is 3rd

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Warrior N, probably should head N next turn, then W, NW, or N depending on what he sees.

warrior N, could continue north or go W for a turn taking advantage of the lake (looking at the dotmapping thread, I'd go for the latter)
Baldric now at size 3
GNP up to 2nd at 7 million
now second in manufactured goods (behind Ottomans, no doubt)
productivity up to 2nd at 15

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Man at Work mines, Hammertime NE
Craig Reid W, spots a fur; he should continue north
switch 2 citizens in Graceland to forests for settler in 1
lux to 30%
Looks like Iroquois are the first to get a settler

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Wow :crazyeye: Dramatic change in climate... jungle to tundra

settler built, looks like people are saying warrior next
warrior N, sees goody hut
worker mines
settler starts towards city site 1
science to 100%

Ottomans built a settler; Sumeria's city to size 3

settler E, will settle next turn
warrior N, sees the end I think, will start west

Freedom Central (Sumeria) built a settler
We're now 2nd in land area, so Iroquois must have settled
now 4th in disease
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Don't know from naming thread what next city should be, so found To be named
Warrior build sounds good, will discuss
warrior west, it looks like the only way through the isthmus is through the goody hut

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yes, there is a path north of the mountain, the warrior goes SW to start that way
rename second city to Great Walls of Fire

Baldric, Hefner's Palace at size 2
now fourth in manufactured goods and third in productivity
Note my post in the absence registry, somebody else will have to play the next couple of turns

OK warrior built stays in city for Barbs, and MP, Granary next build. Mine is completed - worker imobile (I need to get used to that) Craig goes to the top of the mountain - (sorry for the poor picture)

Man at Work to FP
Craig Reid N, will take a look on the hills
I guess Korea is probably building a granary first
Sorry, forgot to take a screenshot

Man at Work irrigates, Hammertime roads
Craig Reid N
science to 80%, mysticism in 1
now 3rd in population, 3rd in military service

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learn mysticism, start on polytheism (36 turns)
GWoF warrior->warrior
Craig Reid N, sees more water, will go W next turn
notice last warrior hadn't been renamed, name it Charlie Reid and the new one Willie Nelson
We could move him out now or wait for the next one; move him W, in the latter case he can move back before he's needed as MP

Lux up, science down, warriors left, might makes right, and workers remain in place.

We see some land across the bay.

I think we should send jokes with every email to Babe. Get them to like us before we have met.

I think we should send jokes with every email to Babe. Get them to like us before we have met. "Pre-diplomacy" diplomacy. Very good!

turn 24 played

Great walls had grown (now working FP) and would riot, so moved the slider up to 20%. That meant that the other reid brother could go south.

Hammertime finishes and goes south - needs to go Se and irrigate the plains and then road it.

The original reid brother goes w. The water is a lake, so keep heading W I think. (SW for now as the water is in the way)

Willie nelson is now standing on a mountain busting fog, can come down and act as MP, or real defense whenever needed.

we are No 1 in production (8) and no 1 in productivity (28).

It seems like we should be meeting someone soon, it is almost turn 30 and last time around some teams had met about this time (turns 25-40).

I think the worker is headed to the plains, so send him there. Warrior in south goes one further south, warrior on the west coast continues down there, and the warrior on the mountain goes west by the silk. City 2 now has the floodplains going as of last turn so thats good. I still think we should build a worker there.

Warrior south reveals a hut. Hmm the land could be better in our neck of the woods. No contacts yet.

The save joke:

"Vice President Dick Cheney is safely back in Washington after an attempt was made on his life in Afghanistan. The Taliban denied they were trying to kill the vice president. They now claim it was just a hunting accident."

Warrior is produced, and the others explore, not finding anything but a possible FP site maybe with 2 cows and a fur.

I left Graceland working a forest for 8 spt, needing 16 more for the granary. If it produces a worker right after the granny then it can get the benefit right away. I had thought we were doing settler but we need some input on that.

Joke of the Save:

A blonde lady was driving along the highway when a blonde police officer pulled her over for speeding.

Officer: May i see your licence?

Lady: what does it look like?

Officer: its a rectangular thing with a photo of you on it.

The lady looks through her bag and pulls out her compact mirror and hands it to the officer.

The officer opens it up and says 'if you had told me you were a police officer I wouldn't have pulled you over.'

Played and sent along. No changes. Granary in 1 turn. Here is a zoomed out picture of our situation (zoomed back in before turn was sent). What is the consensus on where our next city should go?

It is looking like navy will be a lot more important this game.

Principle at this stage should be to maximise the food.

I would say on the red and blue lux (dyes?) as some people were suggesting last time and then the one SE of the second cow.

Other option is on the desert next to the 2 fp's in the south first - that could be a reasonable worker factory.

Those should be the next 3 cities, not too sure on the order though.

Note the absence thread I will be out for a week and Tim is out on or til the 11th.

played turn 29 just in time!

Granary completed capital goes to settlers (and will stay there for a long time!), new game and wheat discovered Lux up to 40% due to GWoF (i should have moved the warrior back to there rather than into the capital, but Civ Assist doesn't give you a riot warning in MP unless you save the current turn while you are playing.

no pictures sorry!

Next turn change GWOF back to the bg to complete the worker -(I was trying to see if extra commerce would allow a cut in lux)

Played turn 30

followed my own instructions so that worker completes next turn from GWOF

warriors explore - no obvious passage south of us. 3 turns to settler - I am definitely going for the dyes city. (we need the happy). We can get the next city to have 2 cows and fresh water, then back fill with the city near the FP's. What is the plan for GWOF's next build? My instinct tells me more workers (it is setting the happy limit and can't produce settlers fast enough)

played turn 31 . worker chain gang out to mine the sugar. One warrior moves east to GWOF, all others move west -I think we are on an island. Turn the lux down, turn the science up.

Turn 32 - late but played

Settler due next turn, Graceland grows to 5 - rearrange food and commerce so that graceland doesn't riot. Keep working sensible tiles and make sure its on 5 food EVERY turn and we should be fine.


Almost certain we are on an island - only real possibility is a link NE of our cities. Might need to rethink techs and get alpha out after poly so that we can make some contacts. Otherwise I fear we may be Billy-no-mates in a 2v2v1.

Chaingang mines the sugar, GWOF is making a worker, could change to a settler after that as the second FP is irrigated. In fact could change to a settler now if required. Leave it to the next better player to decide.

Turn 33

Settler produced sent towards dyes.

one worker roads the FP
one worker is moving to the forrest to chop and road

warriors confirm that we are on an island except for small possibility of path on the hills to the NE (not likely though)

This would explain the lack of contacts. Lux down to 20% sci up to 80% cash now at 8. check all is good to go and sent it off to Wotan.

Played and sent. New settler in 3 turns (It will grow in 2, I MMed after the screenshot). The 3rd city should be up next turn on the silks.

Where do we want to go? I think we have to find a spot on the coast and launch a curragh or 3 to find the others.

Sent the settler to the north cow and it should be there next turn. Hopefully no barbs show up. Worker is chopping by the capital, I didnt know what else to do with him. Polytheism in I would estimate 15 turns, and then we need alpha most likely. A warrior on the west coast can play lookout for the time being and maybe contact someone.

Settler moves into place by the north cow and the other settler will be out this turn. I think the chop will put us back on an easier 4 turn schedule. We should have a 3 turn settler out next with the chop. He can go to the silks I guess.

A worker is produced at GWOF to irrigate the plains and road.

Turn 37

Our 3rd city is now founded. The 4th will be founded in 4 turns by the other cow.

New city (yet to be named)- Worker
Graceland-> Settler in 3 turns.
GWOF-> Set to settler, this can be changed to granary perhaps.

Two warriors are standing sentry duty by the cows. The 3rd is on the west coast looking out for curraghs.

Where do the next settlers go? I forgot a picture, next turn I will put one up with gridlines.

Anyone else have thoughts on 100K?

Settler in two turns now. I wish we had opportunities for more 3 turn settlers. We are still number one in family size; if this continues the future looks bright. Where do we want to settle?

We are about to run out of gold so I turned research off for a turn, lest I or someone else forgets and we lose our granary.

I wonder what's NE of us...

Yes there still seems to be a passage just NE of the fish

Status quo is maintained. We turned back on research. Poly is due in 15 turns (went down by 2 on the interturn). Hammertime (I think) is roading to a city site for settler after next. City2 has a settler due in 5 turns. We probably need to get a granary up after that. If we want to get serious with science, we will need to pull a warrior or 3 from somewhere to serve as mps.

Settler is in place by the other cow, and a settler is produced in Graceland. We have a settler due in GWOF in 4 turns.

City3 can build the worker or whip the temple in 2 turns. It needs the cow irrigated, and I am inclined to continue the worker build, and then whip the temple. Same for City4. If I can remember to rename them next turn I will. What should they be named? Motown, Nutbush City, ???

It might pay to pop the huts later as we perhaps can get more expensive techs from them. We can also coordinate it with research a bit (move into place as we finish research on something).

Looks to me like BABE has had a lux hooked up for a while as their score is 12 points above ours.

Another city settled and by gosh i forgot to rename. I now have a sticky note to rename these things on my desktop. Silks will be settled next turn. What is next? We have a settler each out in 3 turns in GWOF and in Graceland.

Settlers are due in 2 turns.

Worker produced from Cow City. It will irrigate the cow.

We probably need another worker from the capital to help irrigate the flood plains south for the new settler.

GWOF- should we switch the settler to a granary in anticipation of a wonder build here? There are no other bonus food sites to get, since the capital settler will grab the FP.

The scouting warrior up west coast still sees nothing. The two warriors by cow cities can now return home to serve as mps.

Settlers in 1 turn. Warriors are moving back to serve as mp. There might be a crossing at the NE and maybe one SW by the wheat, do we want to check these out with curraghs?

Here are lots of pictures for discussion.

Approval- 3.... Doesnt mean much. Someone has a 2nd lux connected.
Population- 4.... Makes sense since Korea and Ottomans are at sizes 5 and 6. This is based on high population in cities not total. Our % of total world pop is still 20.
GNP- 2. Looks pretty good for gold rate. Probably we will overtake this if we remain #1 in food per turn.
Land area and GDP- 3..... Not much to tell here. A few teams (the agris?) have a bit more land area.
Literacy- useless this early.
Disease- we have the most FPs and jungle in our territory! Err... hopefully Rik gave the others desert/tundra rather than jungle which we can use later.
Pollution- irrelevant.
Life expectancy- 3... hard to tell what this means. Maybe someone else has a granary or they just have more pop in the capital (more likely with Ottomans and Korea being larger)
Family size- #1... This is the key stat. We have more excess food than anyone atm.
Annual Income- 2nd @ 1. someone has a second lux connected it seems or knows someone else.
Productivity- #1, means the total amount of uncorrupted gold, unwasted shields, and excess food you are producing in all your cities. This is again pretty good.

Played last night but too tired to post after helping parents move 30+ years of things out of their house to their new one!

Both settlers produced and head south. City 1 will be planted next turn, and we can plant city 3 from the dotmap the turn after. If we build Pyramids in city 3 GWOF can pump out some settlers still. We will need 6-8 more workers to really get this project going. Our productivity went down to #4 after the settlers were produced.

Barbs have been nonexistant. Can we assume that there are none/sedentary? Wasnt that a mapmakers choice?

Veer the one settler off to City 3. Another city is founded south, but still leaves room for two more, one to pop the hut south (we should coordinate this with researching a tech!) and another possible by the fish. Where should we settle next?

I put the capital on the worker as we are kind of short. Poly is due in 4 turns. We jumped back to 2nd in productivity after founding the new city, and probably will be #1 after the next one.

Dirty Old Town needs 60% lux to build the worker in 2 turns, so it gets a scientist (only town not happy). Poly in 3 turns, no way to really speed that up.

New city is founded at site 3. It begins on a granary as a Pyramids prebuild and uses a floodplain.

Worker from the capital goes to help out there. Do we want another? It is set to a settler.

Our producvity, GNP, and family size are all #1.

We have a turnaround in less than 10 hours!

We fall to 3rd in the major categories (2nd in productivity/family size)! Egads. Warrior moves into town north and the worker will be built in 1 turn there. Should we plant the next city on furs? This can be done in 6 turns with roads in place there as well.

Some of our land, north and northwest

South and West

We are one turn from Poly, at +18 gold. Switched some tiles between the capital and the newest floodplains city. A worker is produced at the city above Dirty Old Town (I forget its name). We are at 34 bpt including the one scientist (so 31).

We want Alphabet next (5 turns)? Or WC in 4 since we have no prebuilds for curraghs (and only one coastal city which is set to build the Pyramids)? If we do WC we can be in Monarchy in less than 20 turns. We would do Alphabet in 4 turns then (and save a turn, and be in a better government, and cash rush some settlers and, well a lot of things).

The demographics are quite a back and forth battle; we are again #1 in the major categories, including productivity.

Poly is in and set to WC in 4 turns at +6 gpt. If we seek the Pyramids, we need to get the thing built asap. If the Alphabet teams went for Republic, they will have anarchy which will help us building it; however, the Ottos are indeed to be feared in this department.

The best I can see atm is to put the capital on exclusive workers for the next 10 turns. There are three workers by Pyramids town, another produced from Dirty Old Town and the town NW of the capital next turn. This will give us 10 workers there to do ~70 worker turns not counting moving. The town might do about 15 spt after add ins. Perhaps we can have the Rids by Turn 82-85.

More of the same. We produced a settler for the furs, and the capital is on a worker now. WC in 3 turns, and back to 100% science. I will try to remember a pic next turn.

Some screenshots for everyone included. We are 2 turns from WC @ +8 gpt. The workers have laid roads down so furs can be connected immediately and the settler can move there next turn. All cities should be connected within two turns.

We need a worker south to mine the plains and get that city another shield or two.

Can you post the demographics?

Sure. They are back and forth.

I think Council is building something big.

We dropped to third in literacy since turn 43, does this mean two teams have lit. or an anomaly?

Council is running a settler factory from sizes 4 to 6. As for literacy, I dont know. Does having writing affect that?

Literacy: % of your citizens who live in a city with a library, university, AND research lab. If every city has just a library you will have 33%, because they are missing the other 2 science buildings.

Edit: Or live in a city with 1 or more scientific Great Wonders (Great Library, Newtons, SETI, Theory of Evolution, Cure for Cancer, and Internet) Copernicus's does not count because despite it helps science, it isn't given the scientific flag. Having 1 of those wonders counts the same as if they had all the other improvements in the city. Two small wonders (apollo and Intelligence Agency) give you credit for having 50% science in that city. You also get 3% added to your literacy rate when you get the literature tech. No bonus when you get education. Great Library still helps your literacy rate even after it is obsolete.

Literacy: % of your citizens who live in a city with a library, university, AND research lab. If every city has just a library you will have 33%, because they are missing the other 2 science buildings.

Edit: Or live in a city with 1 or more scientific Great Wonders (Great Library, Newtons, SETI, Theory of Evolution, Cure for Cancer, and Internet) Copernicus's does not count because despite it helps science, it isn't given the scientific flag. Having 1 of those wonders counts the same as if they had all the other improvements in the city. Two small wonders (apollo and Intelligence Agency) give you credit for having 50% science in that city. You also get 3% added to your literacy rate when you get the literature tech. No bonus when you get education. Great Library still helps your literacy rate even after it is obsolete.

I read the above in Bampeedy's War Academy Article, How the Demographics Work, and I noticed he did this study for PtW. I tested this with some of my C3C saves and it appeared to apply to C3C as well. Literacy stayed at 0% when I researched writing and went to 3% immediately after getting Literature. But, then I opened two recent saves where I didn't have lit. but still had a 3% literacy rate. In both saves I had researched philosophy, once with a free tech and once without. I have no wonders or science buildings in either save. I haven't looked at enough saves to know for sure, but it appears in C3C literacy gets a bump with the philosophy tech. :) :confused:

That is good information. I was kind of doubting someone had built a library already, and philo thing would explain it. At least a couple teams are on their way to Republic.

Same thing as before. Move around some tiles for +13 gpt with WC in 1 turn. We are producing a settler in GWOF this turn so I upped the science slider a bit to make sure the gold loss does not give us enough lost science to miss WC completion.

Pyramids town (formerly Gergovia) is renamed Dark Side of the Moon. The warrior in the capital has adopted Gene Simmons as his moniker. I do enjoy some GS Family Jewels.

The demographics are indeed the same. It is probably the Council and BABE who have philo and are making a run at Republic. This would make the most sense for the isolated start as it is best for food/production/commerce. If they get to Republic before we get to Monarchy, we should know as we will have a corresponding drop in family size (all towns then get 3 food in city center). Only the one who won the Philo race has a chance to get Republic before our Monarchy.

Where does the next settler go?

The Pyramids build looks good. We just need the workers to move it along.

WC is in, and eta on Monarchy is ~17 turns (currently 21). More settlers from the capital would help this, but it is currently on worker duty for some time. If we wanted to build another warrior there, we could grow it to size 4 (2 more beakers per turn, or in other words a turn off of monarchy). Dark Side of the Moon will need 2 MPs soon.

The settler produced from GWOF is sent North to the coast by Fish Lake. This site is foody and coastal.

The west Cowtowns can be put on settlers now. They have access to cows and some shields. Once a warrior is there to fogbust they can cut forests from sites that will be settled in the future for shields now. Im thinking of the fur forest in particular.

We produced some workers who set to feverishly improve Dark Side of the Moon. The city, currently producing 4 shields, will jump to about 13 in 6 turns. We need to find some warriors to serve as mp there.

Still no barbs yet. The NW warrior is going back and forth in that region to both prevent them from showing up and contact anybody that happens along in a curragh. Its like we are castaways with no shipbuilding capabilities :). I dont think I have not researched Alphabet for this amount of time in many games.

The NE warrior is securing the city site for Fish City, and the SE warrior is looking for barbs.

We have the opportunity to pop 2 huts whenever we want. Should we do this when Monarchy comes in? Set research to BW, and maybe pop wheel/alphabet/Masonry.

we will pop the wheel won't we? cheapest of available techs (4 verses the other 2 which are 5's?) if we go for it we should line up 2 settlers so we can try twice.

Yes wheel would be first. The second tech will be the useful one. Maybe we can hold off until we meet someone and trade for the cheap ones.

We are running along at the same pace. The new city will be founded in two turns. The capital is going for more workers after the warrior.

Yes wheel would be first. The second tech will be the useful one. Maybe we can hold off until we meet someone and trade for the cheap ones.

Just a small quibble since we may very well want to hold off on the hut until better tech is available, but my recent experience shows it doesn't quite work this way. I recently played about 60 tiny conquest games with the Zulu on maps with a hut. I set research to CB(the cheapest tech) before founding my city and popping the hut. Even though BW was cheaper than wheel/masonry/alphabet, I popped each of them about 25% of the time. Maybe it works differently after your first city, but I wouldn't think so. Also, I think, but am not sure, that the wheel and masonry cost the same when you don't know anyone.

Im pretty sure you always pop the cheapest tech, but thats without having really ever looked at it in detail. It seems the times where I popped Alphabet rather than something else is that I knew people who had Alpha and it was therefore cheap. But really it doesnt matter much if we wait til later. All of the early ones should be 4 turns to research. Anyone want to do a study on that?

You're right, masonry is the same cost as the Wheel (120).

You are right that it really doesn't matter much, but I didn't know anybody in 4000BC. It was frustrating in those tiny conquest games to pop something other than BW first is why I remember it so well.:)
Here's a screenshot example:
150920

The newly built warrior from the capital has to go south to fight barbs. This causes lux to be raised to 10% for the time being.

DSOTM is about 4-5 turns from addins. The demographics look strange. I had to double check since I thought our imports shouldnt be 3, and thought we had met someone somehow. Then I realized it is the second lux and we begin with 1 per capita. So 3 is the correct number. Productivity and family size look good.

Having barbs around means we need a few warriors in the west as well to cover forest chops in order to get those settlers out soon from the cow towns (Dirty Old Town and Nutbush City). Maybe we can send the settler from Paradise City all the way down to the SW wheat.

No real changes. Our newest city has been founded by the lake fish. It will be able to produce some settlers when monarchy comes in. It will not be connected to the road network anytime soon so it will support some scientists.

We lost a warrior on a mountain, who was attacked and killed by a barb horse. Since our settler is being produced from Paradise City close to there, it can probably go SW of Graceland or 1 turn SE by the ocean fish. Since Monarchy is coming in soon, we can irrigate around the SW Graceland site and get it growing. This city will probably need all grass irrigated to work some hills around.

Looks like I missed the Easter report in my haste. Nothing much has changed except DSOTM is now doing 10, yes 10 spt after 3 shields are lost to corruption. Its 25% corruption will allow for 15 spt with everything else mined, and a few more once in Monarchy and food goes farther. We are at 10% lux, with 13 workers.

Monarchy is due in 14 with 30 wasted at 38 bpt. Maybe we can get that down to 12 but worker production has affected this. There is a barb horse in range of Paradise City, but it has just produced a settler and is size 1 so no harm can really be done there as far as losing a citizen (we have 48 gold at -1 gpt).

I kind of keep expecting some team will pop an SGL and the Pyramids will be gone but this has not happened yet (knock on wood).

We lose 5 gold to a barb horse at Paradise City. Another barb horse threatens Nutbush on the IT but a warrior is in the area that can defend.

DSOTM has 48 shields accumulated and is making 10 per. All of its tiles should be improved within 5 turns.

A new city will be founded next turn. Monarchy is at 20% lux now from lack of MPs around. This should be corrected in 2 turns since we will have 2 additional warriors.

We have to turn up lux for DSOTM. It is size 8 and gaining 12 spt. It will soon go to 15 shields with eta for Pyramids on Turn 85 including the anarchy. The monarchy research is slowed because of increased lux.

We produce 2 more warriors to fight barbs and clear out the fog. We lost a worker to a barb horseman. This is pretty bad, but the warrior available had to protect the settler build, due in 3 turns at Dirty Old Town. It will be able to settle in 4 turns with the newly built road north.

A settler from the capital is going to the coastal fish. Would someone like to produce a dotmap?

I've got time to do a dotmap, but have never produced one on the computer, so someone else could probably do a better job. If I do one, should I use the pictures on posts 52&53?:)

I have full maps printed out with possible cities. I will try to upload them here.

DSOTM is coming along. Being in Monarchy will lessen its corruption a bit. It has 82 shields at 12/turn. The irrigated plains needs to be mined as well as the grassland.

Other than that, all is pretty boring. Barbs are running around but reaction forces are weeding them out.

Any settlement ideas?

DSOTM is size 10 now making 13 spt. It is now 28% corrupt due to the new city being founded. Monarchy takes this down to 24% again.

The new city is by the fish in the SW. It is a pure science city, cant do much of anything else besides a few ships and science.

A barb horseman is slayed by the mighty Charlie Reid in the west.

Settler is sent north to City #2 per Bugsy's request. I think this works well, since the worker can road up to the wheat (#16 I think).

We will have 2 workers produced next turn to add in to DSOTM. These will take it to size 12.

The warrior at Paradise city is going to hold down the mountains from barbarians.

A worker at Nutbush is going to chop the forest so that the next settler is out a bit faster (9 turns).

What do we fall back on if we get beat to the Pyramids? Also, if we do build the Rids, do we want to build the Hanging Gardens as well to deny the Iro and Sumeria a wonder golden age?

I have a mind to turn two citizens to scientists at DSOTM. As it is, we cannot do 15 shields there due to losing 1 food, and the despotism corruption. 2 citizens to scientists will cut three turns off Monarchy, and pays back the 2 shields per turn lost with the better corruption. At least in theory. DSOTM has 121 shields, 6 turns from halfway there!

We are #1 in all of the top categories except family size, where we have fallen to 2nd. It might be all these workers, we are behind in land area due to this Pyramids project.

3 workers are produced. They will be roading and since most of the cities we have are working improved tiles, maybe cut the jungle bananas to give us more food to work with. This will be very powerful with Pyramids. We can have 6 easy settler or worker factories then, and maybe a couple more worker factories with some irrigated grass. It would be nice to have 100 workers and the island filled out by turn 130. I think this should be our goal unless we meet some aggressive neighbors.

Switched to a scientist at DSOTM, and upped research on Monarchy to save 2 turns. Whacked a barb in the SE. The workers will clear the banana jungle in 4 turns, and then irrigate it.

We will have 4 additional settlers when monarchy comes in.

Turn 69 is done. We have more barbs threatening, and Monarchy is due in 3 turns. DSOTM is again building at full capacity. There really is not much to say; it is just expanding and building.

We have 6 warriors doing battle with barbs. 2 barbs were killed this turn. The path South to the wheat-beyond-the-mountain will be clear once a barb camp is destroyed.

We disburse a barb camp and kill 2 additional horsemen. The SW area is clear so the new settler heads that way to the wheat. The barbs wont affect us on this route.

We can build JB's curragh in the north via cash rush. This would give it immediate access to the NW landmass. It can later be upgraded to a galley to ferry some settlers over there if there are no other teams around.

Monarchy in one turn. There are a couple of scientists working, in Lakefish city, and two other corrupt towns.

The banana is now un-jungled and being irrigated. 2 settlers will be coming out when we achieve a new government. I also add to our palace a nice doorway and top thing.

Charlie Reid and company are healing. Another warrior kills 2 barb horsemen on a mountain. Once the SE is settled we can concentrate on the west.

Next turn I will put out more pictures.

What is the next research? Alphabet or masonry are both 4 turns. We can also slow/stop/restart research when we can rush settlers.

DSOTM will gain an extra food next turn and will be able to work more shields.

We are now a Monarchy :king:, or rather, we are in anarchy to become one. DSOTM starves, I had forgotten about its lack of happiness. There is not much we can do there right now.

We can support a bunch of scientists. Research is switched to alphabet. The dance with barbarians continues...

Next turn will be a large reorganizing turn. We can now rush a bunch of settlers to fill in gaps. It will be much nicer to fight barbs on only 1 or 2 fronts, so we will try to fill in the gaps quickly.

Anarchy is over and a Monarchy established with Elvis in charge of the empire.

Alphabet can be complete in 3 more turns, or we can rush a settler next turn at no research. I opt to rush the settler at 0 science. We make 50 gpt. How should I proceed with rushing? We require 7 turns of research out of the next 12 to get Masonry for switching the Pyramids over.

On the demographics front we look good, and seem to be the first to switch governments. No one seems to have pulled off a Republic slingshot.

DSOTM has 196 shields now.

We could definitely use some more troops to clear fog.

Good work kc. Weren't we talking about a lil boat as fog clearer btw? Oh, and the 2 strangely named cities must be re-named :)

Abbey Road, California Girls, and Woodstock are now correctly named. We have 3 settlers out, and a 4th rushed this turn. Dirty Old Town has 16 shields into a settler, making 2 spt, and will get a forest chop in 2 turns for the settler. Reminder to self: put Woodstock on Palace to direct shields to DOT.

DSOTM is now back at full capacity (15 shields). I hope this is enough to pull off the Pyramids. Hopefully the others will attempt an anarchy and delay their builds.

We can pop a goody hut in 2 turns. Do we want to? Or do we want to delay it until the 3rd turn when alphabet comes in? Research is on. Alphabet in 3 with 33 gold at -1 gpt.

The Watchtower is founded on the way to the Great White North. I give Graceland both FPs so that it does 1 turn growth for this turn only to get it back on a 5-6 growth settler cycle (we were just in anarchy and that messed it up a bit). It can do 1 turn workers in Golden Age and regularly if there is iron in that mountain.

Speaking of, should we build another wonder in GA in DSOTM? I think we have several (many really) cities that can dedicate themselves to being settler/worker factories for a long time to come. Sugar Mountain can be a pretty alright production center (military).

We lost a warrior to a barb horseman. The southern settler(s) should be fine, with the far one settling next turn.

The Stone Pony is founded. 4 settlers are out. Another settler is rushed this turn, leaving us with 5 gold in the kitty. Some small management to keep everywhere growing.

Nothing else is changed. I think that irrigating a bonus grass and the regular grass by Graceland will give us 1 turn workers while allowing DSOTM to use the floodplain. GWOF has the banana so it will grow effectively. The workers will be needed to clear jungle and irrigate.

FP in Dirty Old Town? A worker uncovered another bonus grass there. DSOTM can build it much quicker though. DOT has more longterm potential and will allow DSOTM to build another wonder in our golden age.

DSOTM needs another mp, and we need 5 or 7 more warriors in general. I will try to now work on that before GA.

We also killed a barb horse in the south.

We founded a new city, as yet unnamed. What do we want it to be? First suggestion wins!

The road is complete up to Ring of Fire.

Alphabet has been researched and we can buy those damn boats that JB wants so bad. Research is set to Bronze to see if we pop wheel or masonry next turn.

I changed the settler at GWOF to a warrior to put another mp at DSOTM in 2 so we can lower lux slider.

We pop Masonry! Research is switched to Writing in 5 turns. Pyramids in 9 turns.

2 cities are founded south (they need names). The south is now completely settled. We will settle 2 more on plains in the west next turn.

The S.S. JB (a curragh) is commissioned in Ring of Fire rather than a worker. It will be out next turn.

We are awfully short on workers. Will try to change this soon.

From the city naming thread:
City Names:
Dirty Old Town
Graceland
Great Walls Of Fire
St. Alphonzo's (Pancake Breakfast)
Where The Streets Have No Name
Motor City Five
City On Flame With Rock & Roll
Evermore
Sugar Mountain
Nutbush
Hotel California
Paradise City
Sin City
Rock Lobsterford
Town Called Malice
Love Shack
The Watchtower
Heartbreak Hotel
Scarborough Fair
Dark Side of the Moon
Woodstock
Montreaux
Stairway To Heaven
Castle Donnington
Hangar 18
Abbey Road
Basement On A Hill (late, great Elliott Smith's last rec. Reserved for a hill city obviously)
The Stony Pony
CBGB's
The Cavern

Are all these built, or have you just forgot about the naming thread? You forgot, right :lol:

No havent forgot, but I have to search a bit. It is nice if the terrain calls for a certain name (Basement on a Hill), the city names are not in order of preference, and a revised one would be good to eliminate the names already used.

I was hoping the Department of City Naming would give me some orders. Btw, does anyone else want to get some xp playing turns for giggles?

Btw, does anyone else want to get some xp playing turns for giggles?

I wouldn't mind trying some game turns if you supply explicit instructions. I would hate to mess up the great turnplay you have been doing with a bonehead mistake.:)

Graceland produces settler and mange citizen back for growth in 2 during turn. It appears with one more shield it could be a 4-turn axe/settler combo.

Barb warrior approaches mountain north of Abbey Road. Will threaten town and two workers next turn. Barb horsemen in south next to injured warrior moves south to threaten Stone Pony next turn. Barb galley also appears near Stone Pony.

Everything looks good. Switch build from temple to axe in Glanum and switch two citizens for more growth and science where shields were corrupt. Stone Pony grows and hires a taxman to prevent disorder. Writing in 3 turns at 70% science, +1 gpt with 10 gold, Pyramids in 8. Found our 20th city Motor City Five on dotmap site #22, and move warriors north to bust more fog. Galley continues counter-clockwise.

Renamed Lindum, next to tobacco and lake in the north, to Smoke on the Water. Rename three other cities with strange names Rock Lobsterford, St. Alphonzo's, and Evermore. QSC stats and pictures next turn.

Sounds like a :goodjob:.

Thanks for the :goodjob: killercane, but I realized my mistake last turn on this one. I thought I would be able to awaken the worker near Abbey Road this turn if the warrior moved to the mountain. I can't do this now, so we lose the worker at the end of turn. The barb horseman in the south will take a pop. point from Stone Pony. Hopefully, these will be the last losses to the barbs.

On this turn, our settler moves north and will found another town in 3 turns. One injured axe fortifies on a forest and 3 others move to bust more fog. Our curragh continues counter-clockwise revealing ocean to the east of one strip of sea. Citizens are rearranged to promote growth where science and shields are not lost. Writing in 2 turns at 50% science and 30% lux, gpt +12 with 11 gold in the treasury, and the Pyramids due in 7 turns.

Stats at 1000BC
1 city, 19 towns
50 citizens including one taxman
1 granary
13 workers (will lose one to barb IBT)
7 warriors
1 curragh
Territory: 155 with 172 unclaimed tiles
Two luxuries and no contacts
301 shields into the Pyramids
8 settlers, 7 workers, 2 warriors, 1 curragh, and the FP also in production
Culture of 137 all from the palace
10 techs after writing + literature from the MA with 2 huts unpopped

Screenshots of our lands, domestic advisor, and demographics follow:
152754 152753 152752 152755 152756

After these settlers in production find homes, we will have about 20 sites from the dotmap left to settle. The two warriors in the north should be able to converge on the barb camp in the north and the two warriors in the west can do the same. We probably need to send a fogbuster to the east as well. After the workers finish their current assignments and a few more are poduced they can join into gangs for faster improvements. The FP will help, but cities founded from this point will be highly corrupt.

I've no problem continuing to take game turns, but anybody who wants to do so is welcome.:)

Well we need to figure out what to build in Golden Age and if we really want the FP in Dirty Old Town or somewhere else. That barb will cost us 2 pop unless we have a warrior coming over to help defend.

Yes, the barb hit will Abbey Road next turn. There was no warrior that could get there in time or be produced. I was hoping the barb would be attracted by the injured warrior I moved to the forest and didn't realize I couldn't wake the worker next turn.

What do we research after writing? We can get lit in 5, just in time for the GA and MM in the GA. Dirty Old Town could be a worker factory for now. I think DSOTM should build a wonder or two, it could get close to the Lighthouse and the HG in the GA. It looks like contact soon is going to be difficult, and the HG could help us lower the lux slider. Maybe a worker burst at the start of the GA to give more improved tiles and then libraries? I'm sure there's even better ideas.

I am kind of leaning to DSOTM building the FP since it can do so quickly (8 turns in GA?). Then it can build whatever (Lighthouse or Library?). I dont like the Hanging Gardens really, we can control happiness other ways with Feudalism. If we are really serious about 100K, we need to buy as many settlers as possible in the GA. We can probably spit out like 25 settlers and 30 workers in the golden age at no research. We have something like 6-8 worker/settler factories. We probably need to make sure these are all set up for the GA now.

Once we have coast settled in all 4 directions we can send out suicide curraghs by the bunches and find some people. The capital is a 1 turn worker factory and those can clear out a lot of the jungle in our core. I am kind of worried about losing the Pyramids, maybe speeding to lit would be good to switch our prebuild over should we lose it; if we lose it we can buy a bunch of granaries but that certainly isnt as nice as the Pyramids.

Well, I just checked CivAssist and location of the FP really doesn't matter much, so i like the idea of building it first during the GA. I think I rather like the idea of settlers and workers during the GA. How do you see no research in the GA as playing out?

Well we make like 100 science/cash in GA if things are as they are now, quite a lot more if we can get DSOTM to use only 20% lux/ about 120 science (will a temple do that?). That will mean we can raise cash for 3 turns w/ a scientist and then turn on research to finish BW and the Wheel in 1 turn each. That is kind of the hybrid approach, but that trick only works for those 2 techs until we know somebody, as we then have to get up to 150 and 180 beakers for the other things (HBR, IW, Philo).

We can also simply just rush settlers and workers as much as the factories can grow. The pure rushing approach is only if we intend to build the Great Library. We can build 2 turn settlers at Graceland (with 40 gold archer rush on the second turn), unless we want to do the 1 turn workers there. Which do we want more 10 settlers or 20 workers? Placement of the workers is also something to consider, if we want to do 10 settlers there, then we can rush workers elsewhere in more corrupt areas where they can immediately begin irrigating.

If we fall behind in research it should be pretty easy to catch up via trading, we just need to find the others. Once all three know something, they will jump at the chance to give us some discount on the tech so they get something out of it. I dont think tech is too big a worry for us.

A temple in DSOTM will allow us to drop to 20% lux in a GA, since we only 2 more commerce now for that to work. Assuming a GA (knock on wood), DSOTM can short-rush a worker for 80 gold to complete a temple in one turn. Then it builds FP and starts on TGL during rest of GA, or the other way around? By the end of the GA, the island should be filled already rushing suicide curraghs, if needed. Graceland should do some one-turn workers at first, then seven or eight settlers, I think. I think the hybrid approach to research won't be too costly, even if just to give us better intel for when we make contacts.

For now, we'll set research to lit in five timed to arrive the turn we cross 400 shields at DSOTM. I like the idea of going for the Library in this game, subject to approval from the team.

Change Dirty Old Town to a settler. Our curragh reveals more ocean to the east on its way north. Axes in the north move one east and the axes in the west stay in the same area so more barb camps don't spring up near our cities. Science is turned down to 40% for writing next turn, gpt is +28 with 21 gold treasury. Some citizens rearranged for growth as on other turns.

In demographics we increase to 55 in mfg. goods, but drop to second. The barb warrior does take one pop. from Abbey Road IBT. The Watchtower will produce an axe next turn to fog-bust in the east, near the furs and hut. For less than 20 gold we can rush another axe at Evermore in the NW next turn. That fog in the west looks dangerous and barb horsemen could disrupt our workers, so I will do this next turn unless there are objections. Pyramids due in 6 turns.

The Watchtower produces an axe and heads NE to the fur on the coast. From this spot there will be no fog in the east. Our north-bound curragh reveals more ocean and spots the barb camp on the hill in the north. Both axes move to converge on this camp and we have more settlers coming this way soon. We should probably disband it by settling.

An axe is rushed at Evermore to go west and spot the barb camp there. Our pop. is up to 55. Science is now 66-bpt and research is set to Lit. in 5-turns at 70% science after we discover writing. Treasury of 26 gold at -1 gpt. On demographics everything is the same, except we somehow move up to fourth in life expectancy. The Pyramids are now due in 5-turns.

I think the bonus grass above Graceland needs to be irrigated for the golden age and the 1 turn workers/2 turn settlers, subject to bad calculation on my part.

I think the bonus grass above Graceland needs to be irrigated for the golden age and the 1 turn workers/2 turn settlers, subject to bad calculation on my part.

When you mentioned such a factory earlier, I rearranged the tiles Graceland worked to get +10 food and came up with the following arrangement:

152952

Graceland has +10 food and 6 shields before the GA. In the GA it will have +10 food and 10 shields from what I see here, so it should be ready. I don't think it will lose any shields to corruption from adding more cities, but I could be wrong. We still have time to change things if this is wrong.:)

Yep the consideration is, what peripheral city do we want to have the food? This may change from turn to turn. For a settler, if we irrigate the bonus grass we will have 11 shields at size 5 (36 gold rush, pick up forest on growth) and use the FP; at size 6 we can give the FP to GWOF and the Banana to Watchtower (which may need some mines to produce workers at a decent rate).

The problem with this is the lack of food at Sugar Mountain (if we use the river grassland that is irrigated at Graceland)which I did not account for before, but this can be solved by irrigating the grass SE of Graceland.

So by irrigating the BG, we gain food at Watchtower every other turn and provide a net benefit to the empire. This is negated a bit by having only jungle for GWOF to use, so we need to get rid of that jungle sometime too. So many worker moves and so few workers we have!

In Conquests the capital is always non corrupt so we dont lose any shields there no matter what.

Yeah, my recent PTW experience made me forget corruption in the capital is not possible in Conquests.

A worker just went to Sugar Mountain to irrigate the other grassland there. A mine will complete at The Watchtower in two turns. I was thinking Graceland could make 1-turn workers at the start of the GA since we have such a sore need for them. Is this a good idea? In any case, we should just be able to irrigate the two tiles you suggest in time.

Nutbush, Sugar Mountain, and Graceland produce settlers heading north. Evermore produces an axe who moves to forest S. Sugar Mountain and Evermore switch to worker builds.

Axes in the north move two tiles away from barb camp. Axe in the east one turn from busting fog there. The banana at We Built This City is done. Three workers will be ready to start irrigation at Graceland next turn. A road crew of three workers will be ready in two turns in the north. Our curragh is just north of gold hill revealing banana and more ocean to the east. The island in the north is one tile with a banana. At end of turn the barb camp spawns a galley two south of curragh.

In demographics we move to 4th in military service and Graceland passes Freedom Central on the top cities list. We will produce another settler and worker and found a city at dotmap site #20 next turn. Need to rename axes next turn and get some pictures. Lit. is due in 4 at -1 gpt with 25 gold in treasury at 70% science. Pyramids due in four turns.

Paradise City produces a settler which heads north. Sin City is founded on dotmap site #20. Our two northern axes move to the hills on either side of the barb camp. Our curragh moves to the north of the one-tile banana island revealing two tiles of ocean beyond the sea. The barb galley will follow it at end of turn. Our axe busts all fog in the east and our western axe moves to the forest next to the hut.

Three roads complete and two workers start irrigating the grassland SE of Graceland. We hire taxmen at Stone Pony, Rock Lobsterford, and Evermore to prevent civil disorder. We have 24 gold and +5 gpt, with Lit. due in three at 70% science. Pyramids are now due in three turns.

In demographics we fall to 4th in land area. Here's some screens including a wide view of Gongland.

153106 153107 153108

We hire taxmen at Stone Pony, Rock Lobsterford, and Evermore to prevent civil disorder.



Small point, but scientists are usually better than taxmen, (3sci vs 2 gold) unless the overrun interfears.

Stone Pony and Abbey Road produce workers. Sugar Mountain completed its settler two turns ago. It is switced to Palace with two shields in the box set to grow in one currently pulling three shields. The worker there completes irrigation of its second grassland tile.

Mines complete at The Watchtower and the banana at We Built This City is fully improved. Four workers move to the silk GWOF is working to clear the jungle there. The grassland SE of Graceland is irrigated and the northern bg will be irrigated next turn. This will leave four workers available to work on Sugar Mountain soon.

Taxmen at Rock Lobsterford and Evermore are switched to scientists and the slider is bumped down to 50%. We have 29 gold in the treasury at +10gpt with Lit due in 2-turns. Demographics remain the same. Pyramids are now due in 2 turns with a 4 shield overrun.

A settler should be in position to disband the barb camp in 3-turns in the north. On the IBT our curragh is destroyed by the barb galley and the barb camp spawns another barb. Before the curragh dies it reveals a northern passage crossable by galleys. Here's a screen shot of the situation in the north.

153204

Smoke on the Water produces a worker and we found Town Called Malice on dotmap site #16. The road completes on the tobacco and two settlers move to the bg NW of the wheat. They should each found cities in two turns and disband the barb camp. Since the camp spawned a horseman, the axe on the eastern hill moved to the plains to shield our settlers and workers. On the IBT the horseman moves to the vacant hill.

Citizens are rearranged for max growth and science and lit is due next turn at 50% science with 39 gold in the treasury and +11 gpt. The main news is that the Pyramids are due next turn. I suppose since this is MP we could still be beat next turn. I hope not, but if that happens, should DSOTM be switched to the Library or the ToA? Also, how do we rush the temple at DSOTM if we do get the Pyramids?

Disband a warrior, and shortrush a warrior for 36 gold, switch it to temple. It should get 20+ shields in GA. We just need 36 gold for the rush (we could sell the granary in the capital now for more gold, woo hoo).

We discover literature and get two messages you always like to see.

153326 153327

We are golden!:D

Workers are produced at Ring of Fire, The Watchtower, and Rock Lobsterford. Settlers are produced at Dirty Old Town, Scarborough Fair, Graceland, and California Girls. Another settler and more workers will come next turn.

Charlie Reid slays the barb horseman flawlessly and promotes to veteran. Settlers are in position to found cities on the north coast next turn and disband the barb camp. Our axe in the west steps next to a barb camp defended by a warrior on the marsh. Should we attack next turn?

Graceland is set to one turn growth and should produce a worker when it grabs the forest on growth. An axe is disbanded at DSOTM and another rushed for 32 gold. DSOTM will complete a temple next turn allowing our lux-slider to be reduced to 20%. As I expected, DSOTM is producing 24 shields and wasting seven. When it completes the FP halfway through the GA, it should pull 30 shields and be able to complete the Lighthouse by the end of the GA.

Science is set to BW with a lone scientist at 0%. We have 18 gold in the treasury and are currently making +97 gpt. Hm, I should remember to disband the granary at Graceland next turn. Just ask and I'll provide any more info or screens needed next turn. Here's our demographics at the start of the GA.

153328

This turn was very :cool: !

Graceland and Woodstock produce workers, GWOF produces a settler, and DSOTM builds a temple. The FP is due at DSOTM in 9-turns (darn, 24 shields rots) and we have our first border expansion outside of the capital.

Love Shack is founded on dotmap site #14, disbanding the barb camp for 25 gold. Charlie Reid moves into the city and the remaining barb warrior moves to the vacant hill on the IBT. We'll try to dispatch him next turn. In the west, our axe from Evermore (how do you rename units anyway?) takes one damage in disbanding the barb camp for another 25 gold.

Montreaux is founded on dotmap site #17 giving us 24 cities and 62 pop. We have six settlers en route to city sites and more coming with only 6 city names left unused. We need more city names soon as City on Flame with Rock n' Roll and Where the Streets Have No Name are both too long to fit in the box. A settler is rushed at Ring of Fire for 108 gold as it will grow and one. Workers are rushed at Abbey Road and Stone Pony for 28 gold each as they will both grow next turn as well.

Next turn we will have 25 cities, six settlers en route and six more to be produced soon. We have 20 workers now, and should have 24 next turn. GWOF is growing slow until the jungle silk is cleared in 2-3 turns, so it is set to warrior in 2-turns to be used as disband at Graceland. Here's a spoiler containing information on all our cities that may be useful:

Graceland +10F 9shpt 16gpt growth in 1 worker in 1 Size5
GWOF +4F 5shpt 9gpt growth in 5 warrior in 2 Size3
Nutbush City +5F 6shpt 6gpt growth in 3 settler in 3 Size3
Dirty Old Town +5F 4shpt 2gpt growth in 1 settler in 7 Size2
We Built This City +6F 4shpt 10gpt growth in 2 settler in 2 Size3
Paradise City +5F 5shpt 7gpt growth in 4 settler in 4 Size3
DSOTM 0F 24shpt 20gpt zero growth FP in 9 Size11
Scarborough Fair +4F 1shpt 6gpt growth in 4 worker in 7 Size2
Ring of Fire +5F 3shpt 4gpt growth in 1 settler in 1 Size4
Sugar Mountain +4F 3shpt/11 in box 7gpt growth in 2 Palace pre-build Size3
California Girls +3F 5shpt 6gpt growth in 2 settler in 5 Size3
Abbey Road +4F 1shpt 2gpt growth in 1 worker in 1 Size1
Woodstock +3F 1shpt 2gpt growth in 2 worker in 10 Size1
The Watchtower +4F 2shpt 3gpt growth in 2 worker in 4 Size2
Stone Pony +3F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 1 worker in 1 Size1
Smoke on the Water +4F 1shpt 2gpt growth in 3 worker in 8 Size2
St. Alphonzo's +5F 2shpt 4gpt growth in 1 curragh in 1 Size2
Rock Lobsterford +5F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 3 worker in 8 Size1
Evermore +2F 1shpt 1gpt/3bpt growth in 6 worker in 5 Size2
Motor City Five +3F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 5 worker in 1 Size2
Sin City +3F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 3 worker in 6 Size1
Town Called Malice +5F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 2 worker in 8 Size1
Love Shack +3F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 7 worker in 10 Size1
Montreaux +3F 1shpt 1gpt growth in 7 worker in 10 Size1

We are one turn into our research on BW with 1 gold in the treasury and +113gpt at 0% science and 20% lux-slider. I've only got MSpaint, but here's a consolidated dotmap showing 29 vacant city sites. One more city can be squeezed in on the plains near DSOTM for a total of 54 cities, not counting what we may be able to settle in the north or elsewhere. With our current settlers and the one due next turn we need 23 during the GA to fill the map, which I think we will easily be able to get.

153366 153367

Edit: I just noticed one more city site on the dotmap near the barb galley in the west for a total of 24 more settlers needed during GA and 55 total cities.

I count 10 unsued names

Basement On A Hill
Castle Donnington
(City )On Flame With Rock & Roll
CBGB's
Hangar 18
Heartbreak Hotel
Hotel California
Stairway To Heaven
The Cavern
(Where )The Streets Have No Name

2 you have mentioned as being too long, but should be OK if you take out the bits in brackets. Will post this summary in the naming thread together with some additional suggestions

Thanks RF. I didn't think to check past the OP.:)

Cant we add an extra shield at DSOTM with the border expansion?

I was looking at that, and I think you are right. We'll need one more mp, workers to irrigate the plains, and one to add in. We might even be able to keep the lux-slider at 20%. I don't think this can be completed before 5-turns, though, so don't know if it will speed FP or not. It should definitely put DSOTM above 30 shields for the Lighthouse attempt. I sort of feel silly I didn't think about DSOTM grabbing this tile before the GA.

No worries. I should have said something but forgot about it. I think I have a solution though. If we can get the workers over there to mine the new plains, and some to irrigate a mined plain and then add one in, we can turn up lux for We Love the King Day for a couple turns and get the FP in 8 turns. 24 shields x 4 turns, 25 x 2 turns, and 27 x 2 turns with WLTKD. I dont know how many shields WLTKD will give, it might be more and we could play with that a bit. We need a warrior for Graceland and a warrior for DSOTM.

We have to mine the plains to get 33 shields (we lose 8 @ 24% corruption), and we have to have the food, hence irrigating the plains.

In GA, the irrigated plains will yield two shields. The quickest it can be irrigated is four turns, but luckily DSOTM has one food in the granary, so a worker can be added one turn before irrigation completes. If WLTKD works out, the FP can just make 8 turns.

Here's a screenshot of DSOTM's cityscreen showing the shield situation as it would be using the plains gained by border expansion:

153378

Two workers from Graceland and GWOF can arrive on the plains in 2-turns and have it irrigated in four. An mp can be rushed at The Watchtower to arrive in 3-turns as well as another worker from Graceland added-in to run on 23 food for one turn. I do believe this will work as you suggest with WLTKD for 2-turns. Awesome solution, killercane.:goodjob:

Production this turn followed by build:
Ring of Fire=>settler-settler in 10
Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
Stone Pony=>worker-worker in 10
St. Alphonzo's=>curragh-curragh in 4

I still do not know how to rename units.:blush:

Our 25th city, On Flame With RocknRoll is founded on consolidated dotmap site #1 starting a worker. Our regular warrior in Love Shack kills the barb conscript taking one damage. Vet Charlie Reid moves down the just completed road to help with fog and an expected barb camp in the west. Our damaged warrior in the west repositions to fortify next turn.

Operation FP in 8 begins with GWOF switching to a worker due to arrive at the new plains at DSOTM next turn. The worker from Graceland will also arrive at the plains next turn. The Watchtower is switched to a warrior and rushed for 24 gold. It will arrive in two turns at DSOTM for MP duty as the new worker from Graceland is added-in for one turn of -1 growth, making DSOTM 25shpt. Irrigation will complete the following turn with 97 shields in the box. Estimate is 60% lux-slider for WLTKD. Sadly, CivAssistII reports that DSOTM will still have 13% corruption after the FP is built. Perhaps WLTKD can be used again at some point to make the GLHouse due in 10.

A settler is rushed at California Girls for 80 gold, which will head west to settle just north of Stone Pony in 5-turns. Our new curragh from St. Alphozo's starts SW and reveals ocean just beyond the sea.

BW is due in 2-turns with a slight bump in science on the next turn. Our treasury is 10 gold making +116gpt despite losing 1 pop. overall this turn. Two more cities will be founded next turn and two more produced. We will have 30 cities in three turns. Nineteen of our cities now have full granaries and this will increase to twenty next turn.

Sugar Mountain will grow next turn and pick up three uncorrupted shields. I believe it is possible to get Sugar Mountain to 27 uncorrupted shields with 10 turns left in the GA. Since we need mp's to do this and vet warriors to improve our power graph (right? Bugs and Daghie;) ) in case of contact soon, I have a suggestion. We really have no problems getting enough settlers now, so I propose we change the settler build due in three to a barracks at Paradise City. When it grows in three turns to size 4 it can halt growth using a mined plains, two irrigated plains, and a mined desert (needs worker action on this) it can yeild 10 shpt for one turn vet warriors through 14 turns of the GA. We can also do 4-turn low science research on IW to at least reveal the location iron (stays disconnected?), possibly giving us extra shields at Sugar Mountain or elsewhere. MM should come next, I think, and we need to think about when we want to pop the two remaining huts. If they both have tech, we could end our GA just three techs short of the MA even without contacts.

F7 shows nothing still, so other teams at least were not that close to the Pyramids or a cascade should have happened by now. Either they are not too far into any wonder builds or are now going for the GL. Maybe they're all following the No Wonder Rule and letting us have them all. If they bring they're loaded boats, they'll have to get through ours at a loss of three units to every one boat we lose. Not a terribly bright idea, I think.:)

Edit: Here's the updated demographics screen:

153434

Production this turn:
Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
GWOF=>worker-warrior in 2 (mp at Sugar Mtn. or disband at Graceland)
We Built this City=> settler-settler in 8
California Girls=>settler-settler in 10
The Watchtower=>warrior-worker in 5

CBGB's is founded at consolidated dotmap site #4 and starts a worker. Hangar 18 is founded at site #5 and does the same. The granary at Graceland is sold for 15 gold and a settler is rushed at Ring of Fire for 108 gold to nab site #6. A worker is rushed at Smoke on the Water for 24 gold to help with road to the west.

Our injured warriors are fortified to heal and vet Charlie Reid stops in at Woodstock. I've figured out how to rename units and will do so next turn. Our curragh continues SW and reveals another sea across one tile of ocean where the arrow points in the following picture.

153496

The project at DSOTM proceeds as planned and will grow to size 12 next turn, making 25-shpt with 72 shields in the box. Sugar Mtn. grows to size 4 grabbing the just completed mined hill making 7-shpt with 21 shields in the box and growth in 3 turns. Checking Civassist shows a completed FP gains a modest +10 gpt at DSOTM or +11 gpt at Sugar Mtn. with a reduction in corruption of 17 at both. In Monarchy, corruption at both sites will still be above 10% even with completion and 6 towns/cities in the empire with corruption<20%. With one turn (I think) of WLTKD we can get DSOTM to 400 shields in 13 more complete turns.

We will have 28 towns/cities next turn, 27 workers after joining one at DSOTM, and 7 settlers en route to sites. The northern and eastern part of the dotmap will have all sites founded except the two that would pop huts. The silk jungle is now clear and roaded and will be irrigated? next turn.

Our science is bumped to 50% for BW next turn and we have 10 gold in the treasury making 37 gpt. IW is slightly more expensive but should probably come next in case there is iron near Sugar Mtn. We could run lone scientist for 2-turns and 50% for 2-turns to get it in four, or lone scientist for 3-turns and 60% for one turn to get the wheel. MM could probably be done with 50% or less for 4-turns later or at least 3-turns of 60% now. I think IW is best but will go with any of them.

Our score gain per-turn is now at +10 matched only by Team Free (Sumeria) with Team BABE gaining +9. A review of demograhics from post #102 and #116 before the Pyramids completed, I think reveals that Team Free executed a Palace jump sometime before turn 85. Since we had built no new granaries, we could only have jumped to #4 in life expectancy if a team lost a granary. Graceland now stays ahead of Freedom Central regardless of size, which can only mean our culture there is now higher. We move to 3rd in literacy (don't know how) and #1 in disease with the jungle cleared on the silk. Screenshots of the new Lighthouse in F7 and updated demograhics follow.

153497 153500

Note: Upon reviewing the reports on MTDG I in the archives, I noticed a lurker comment by RIK informing a TP that attachments uploaded to civfanatics.net are publicly viewable. It was my understanding this forum was secure. Are not attachments here also secure? Pure EVIL wouldn't let their conscience bother them, so if they are not secure we might need to switch attachments/pictures to imageshack. Does anyone know the answer?

The answer is imageshack or photobucket. I'm impressed by the work our tp's are doing by the way :clap:
I follow you closely but haven't much to add I'm afraid :lol:

Thanks, Daghda. I'm looking into both now. My attachments are over half-full here now, anyway.:)

I vote for some ships on suicide missions! Northwest east and south. Lets find the Others. (I tried to make some kind of Lost reference here but that show is kind of hard to explain).

The soon to be re-christened Irish Rover will head due south next turn. Barb galleys were seen prowling the west coast on IBT. Better to roll the dice in the ocean, and see what we can catch.:)

A very busy and interesting turn. We discover bronze working, spot coasts in two direction, and also manage success in keeping DSOTM plans on course after discovering a rather large error on my part.:)

Our curragh gets a new skipper and is re-christened Irish Rover under orders from Fleet Command to set sail for open waters. The captain reports problems in keeping Irish Rover afloat, but bravely hopes to reach coastal waters to the SE to repair the damaged vessel soon. He sends the following map of his last known position and promises more if safety is reached. May the luck of the Irish be with you brave captain.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/CoastsSpotted.jpg



The irrigation plans on the new plains at DSOTM were scrapped since, despite repeated review, I failed to notice this is impossible without connection to fresh water.:blush: This could have been a very bad error were it not for careful review of killercane's plan in post #127. The two workers on the plains instead started a road that will complete next turn with one worker free to perform another action. Four workers from the newly roaded silk tile moved two sqaures to irrigate an already mined plain and the worker at DSOTM was added-in as planned with the arrival of a third mp to prevent civil disorder. This gives DSOTM 24F and 24-shpt now for 96 shields in the box next turn. GWOF was switched to a worker due next turn which will allow six worker actions next turn to complete the mine raising DSOTM to 25-shpt. With a planned WLTKD for two-turns at 60% lux-slider, DSOTM is on schedule to reach 200 shields in 5-turns, 300 shields in 9-turns, and 400 shields in 13-turns. I really must apologize for my error here, but it actually turns out for the best I wasn't corrected. I think without also explicit worker instructions, I would have found it necessary to abandon the clearing of the jungle-silk to execute the correct course of action killercane proposed.

Sugar Mountain has 28 shields in the box and the forecast is for it to become our second city in 5-turns with 77 shields in the box making 14-shpt. This site will be much better as more workers and mp's are expected to arrive and help for the remaining 11-turns of our GA. HG, I think, is what we want here but it could also finish FP or another wonder depending on future developments.

In production this turn were the following:
Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
Nutbush City=> settler-setter in <10
Ring of Fire=>settler-curragh in 8
Smoke on the Water=> worker-worker in 10

Rockaway Beach is founded at map site #2 and starts a worker. Workers start a mining another hill at Sugar Mtn. and one moves to start irrigating the plains in 2-turns allowing some faster natural growth upon reaching size 5. Three settlers are in position to found cities on sites #6, #3, and #13 next turn. Sites #9, 14, 16, and 26 are scheduled to found towns over the next three turns. Workers were rushed at A Town Called Malice for 20 gold and Rock Lobsterford for 16 gold. On the next turn we will be at 31 towns/cities, 30 workers, and 5 settlers with eight more due in next eight turns. This leaves us needing only 4 more settlers for all planned sites not popping huts or on planned islands. The following spoiler contains a zoomed-out look at The Gong Show.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/TheGongShowCirca730BC.jpg

Our science was set for IW at 40% with 11 gold and +67gpt to both allow IW in 4-turns and funding for 2-turns of WLTKD to keep DSOTM on course. A curragh is due at St. Alphonzo's in 2-turns and we should manage one every two turns until the two discovered coast tiles are safely reached. The expected 145 gold over the next two turns can be used to rush a settler at Evermore for 80 gold in two turns and a curragh at Ring of Fire next turn. We should be able to reduce the science slider to 30% followed by 10% during the proposed funding of WLTKD allowing another curragh rush in the north. With only three-turns of science over 0% and few, if any, settler rushes needed, we can expect >1000gold over the rest of the GA to increase worker-supply (much needed) and rush regular suicide curraghs. I propose we research the wheel and HBR with the hybrid approach killercane suggested, then with research set to the cheap philosophy pop the huts with settling possibly giving us mathematics and/or CoL. We might also want to research MM before the end of our GA unless we get the GL and, thus, have no need.:D

No changes in F7 to report. In demographics the only change is going to last in literacy. Perhaps libraries have been completed by the other teams, but this has gone up and down over the last turns with no changes by us, so I'm not sure of this. The final spoiler shows our domestic adviser screen. Thanks, daghie, for suggesting photobucket as I prefer this to imageshack.:)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/DomesticAdvisor730BC.jpg

Edit: Name tags arrived this turn for Gene Simmons, Jeff Tweedy, Johnny Cash, Neil Young, and A Boy Named Sue as vet Charlie Reid arrives in the west to help in removing the remaining fog. Workers went nameless as the supply of material was very short, but no riots are expected.:)

Our brave skipper of the Irish Rover succeeds in reaching safety. In a twist of irony he can find no land to repair the damage and must once again risk the lives of his crew. He ponders his next move and awaits further instructions from Fleet Command. A coast with no land?:lol:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/WhatIrony.jpg

We have also received a picture of a most odd Statue located in unkown lands at a location only known as The Admiralty owned by a most curious tribe calling themselves the Council.:hmm:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/F7Circa710BC.jpg

On the domestic front all planned projects and schedules remain on course. The mine completes at DSOTM with 96 shields in the box and 25shpt. We confirm that 60%lux-slider will initiate WLTKD next turn. We remain at 40% science and will now be able to reduce science to 0% on the second turn of WLTKD. Sugar Mtn. gains two more shields than forecast as the hill is worked early and will grow to size 5 next turn.

Three cities were founded on the planned sites named Castle Donnington, Basement on a Hill, and Sweet Home Alabama. Growth at Basement on a Hill at city site #6 was slow (eastern promontory) so a curragh was started there instead of the usual worker. Citizens were carefully juggled to eliminate wastes of shields, growth, and science. We now have 31 towns/city and 31 workers, but for the first time during GA, no new city sites will build next turn. All named warriors not on mp duty move west to help in eliminating the fog. Workers continue to move west to build roads on marshes as much work is needed to clear 3 marshes for planned city sites. Workers near DSOTM will resume clearing jungles as food is short in this area. Another settler is due next turn and two new curraghs as we rush one at Ring of Fire for 52 gold.

In production this turn were the following:
Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
GWOF=>worker-warrior in 2
Paradise City=>settler-warrior in <4
Rock Lobsterford=>worker-worker in 5
Town Called Malice=>worker-worker in 10

The settler from Paradise City crosses the river and will travel through the new mountain road to found a new city in the west.

There is a change in the demographics and, I believe, evidence of another palace jump executed by Team Saber. We move to 2nd in land area and Graceland now occupies 3rd in rank with no culture but the palace. We also bounce back to 4th in literacy.:crazyeye: :confused: In score per turn both Team Saber and Team Babe lose one point on the field. Team Saber's drop is understandable with a palace jump. Team Babe might be experiencing slower growth and increased production. Since we are and have been #1 in pop. and approval most of the game, yet Team Free matches our score per turn, it is a safe bet they are #1 in land area. Some more information is sure to be found in these new tea leaves.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/Demographics710BC.jpg

The Irish Rover, I think should move SE one move next to see if more coast is to be found one tile across the sea. If so, it can safely remain there and safely cross on the next turn. If not, due south?

Sure move the curragh one and skip a turn. We may be on the verge of meeting someone! How grand, hopefully it is the BABES.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
Dirty Old Town=>settler-settler in 6
Ring of Fire=>curragh-curragh in 5
The Watchtower=>worker-worker in 3
St. Alphonzo's=>curragh-curragh in 4

We move the Irish Rover west 2 squares, but note that it sinks on the IBT. The new curragh Edmund Fitzgerald leaves St. Alphonzo's and moves to coast 2 east, planning a voyage to the east near DSOTM, new curragh's from St. Alphonzo's are planning voyages to the west. Our new curragh Boat Train from Ring of Fire moves 2 NE to coast and plans to move to sea to the east next turn.

No new towns are founded this turn, but four settlers are in position to found towns next turn. Our pop. is now 74 with 31 towns/cities and we have 33 workers. We now have 26/31 granaries full. Warriors continue to move west and only two tiles of fog remain with no barb camps spotted. Workers continue to move and road to the west to allow clearing of marsh for planned settlements. Workers near DSOTM move to clear jungle on the river near GWOF. We rush a settler at Evermore for 80 gold.

Sugar Mtn. grows to size 5 with 45 shields in the box making 10-shpt still on schedule to become our second city in 4 turns. IW is due in 2-turns with science lowered to 10% and the lux-slider is increased to 60% to initiate WLTKD at DSOTM for a planned 2-turns. DSOTM now has 121 shields in the box at 25-shpt and is expected to have >=175 in the box in two-turns. This allows for Colossus or FP in 3-turns, 300 shields in 7-turns, 400 shields in 11-turns or 500 shields in 15-turns. We could expect DSOTM to cross the 600 shield threshhold in 20-21-turns depending on #WLTKD turns and an FP elsewhere, if desired. The following screen shows another zoomed-out look at Gongland.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/Gongland690BC.jpg

There is movement to report in score per turn. GONG and Council gain +1 per turn on the field. The Babes and Team Free lose -1 on the field while Saber remains unchanged. No changes in F7, while the military adviser says we are weak with our new contact Team Babe. In demographics the only move is a drop to 5th in Literacy. Our new contact adds info to the victory screen for the first time. We have a slim lead (exact score not noted) in culture on Team Babe with only a temple at DSOTM, Pyramids, and Palace. The following screen contains a first look at the power graph.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/Powergraph690BC.jpg

Any discussions on changes in builds, worker, or fleet/troop movements are always welcome. Any information or screenshot requested can be provided for perusal by the team at any time.:)

What about another curragh from Stone Pony?

Will do. IIRC we should have 58 gold next turn.

60 gold, actually. At least our worker count has finally surpassed our city count.

Upon opening the save, immediately notice the Babes galley is nowhere in sight. Plans are mostly left unchanged except for the start of a barracks at Paradise City, but security will start to increase soon.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
GWOF=>warrior-warrior in 2 (3rd mp for Sugar Mtn.)
Paradise City=>warrior-barracks in <8
Evermore=>settler-worker in 10
SinCity=>worker-worker in 10

Plans for WLTKD go as expected and DSOTM now has 149 shields in the box making 28-shpt. WLTKD will continue for one more turn at 60% lux-slider to put 177 shields in the box next turn allowing the site to reach the 200 shield threshhold in 2 turns, 300 shields in 6-turns, 400 shields in 10-turns and 500 shields as the GA ends. The science slider is left at 10% with iron working due in one turn. Our treasury is 20 gold with +49 gpt after rushing a curragh at Stone Pony for 40 gold. The site at Sugar Mtn. now has 55 shields in the box and remains on track to become our second city in 3-turns.

I'm going to start including a zoomed out screenshot of our lands both for reference to pointed out actions and to allow for suggestions to any changes in builds or unit movements in every report. These will be in a spoiler followed by comments. Here's a screen of the GongShow circa 670BC just before the turn's end:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/GongShow670BC.jpg

Our new warriors move to assume mp duty at Sugar Mtn and dog-tags will be issued to them next turn. Two more regular warriors are planned at GWOF, one for mp duty at Sugar Mtn. and one to use as a disband at Graceland allowing for a one turn temple and growth to size6 as gpt is expected to rise after one more turn of WLTKD. Warrior moves in the west uncover the last two unseen tiles of fog and movements next turn are expected to remove all fog from the island preventing any more barb camps from arising to disrupt plans.

Paradise city will grow to size four next turn and pick up more shields at zero-growth and workers will work to turn this site into a 10-shpt at some point during the GA. Workers arrive at a marsh tile to begin a road and clearing of future settlement site as more workers are expected to arrive. Settler moves have been worked out to allow two hut pops in 5-turns when we expect to have researched another tech, subject to future developments. Jungles are expected to be cleared near GWOF and The Watchtower over the next 5-turns. The build at DSOTM will switch to the Palace next turn as this picture shows WLTKD will work as killercane suggested. The Boat Train went due east but revealed only more ocean as it sinks on the IBT. The Edmund Fitzgerald moves to sea then coast to the NE revealing more ocean and is planned to move east from DSOTM on a voyage of discovery.

E Street, Heartbreak Hotel, Streets Have No Name, and Stairway to Heaven are founded this turn each starting the usual worker. No new settlements are founded this turn, but four more sites are planned to be settled within three turns. We now have 35 towns/cities with 26 full granaries and a population of 82. Our max. research capacity without scientists is 136 beakers per turn at 20% lux-slider. Here's a screenshot from our military advisor showing the forces of the Gong Show, before the tragic loss of the Boat Train at turn's end.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/MilitaryAdvisor670BC.jpg

I've noted that opening foreign advisor does not allow inspection of assets of new contacts, but the peace treaty with the Babes is still active. No changes in F7 to report. Only a slight down-turn in the power graph relative to the Babes was noted. It is noted that Team Babes cuture consists only of the Lighthouse and Palace. The following screenshot shows the victory screen for the first time.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/VictoryScreen670BC.jpg

There is movement to note in score per turn as the Gong Show imrpoves by +3 per turn on the field, the Babes halt their earlier reversal and gain +2 score per turn on the field, Team Free gains +1 per turn on the field, the Council remains unchanged, and Team Saber drops -1 per turn. Score per turn rank is now Gong +15, Free +11, Babes +10, and Saber and Council both +8.

Also, movement is seen in demographics as Gong moves to #1 in land area upon new settlements. The Babes were noted to be first before these settlements, different from the earlier note of Team Free as #1 in land area. It is noted that new contacts do not improve annual income, but that a trade route is needed as Gong annual income is unchanged at 2. We move to #2 in family size as food tiles become scarce and growth decreased to allow for possible hut-popping in 5-turns. We move to #2 in disease as new settlements put more jungle tiles in our territory. Graceland moves to number two in city rank ahead of Hefner's palace. This may be due to anarchy and not a palace jump. In a dramatic move in literacy we move to #3 with no science buildings or wonders and only literature accounting for our 3%. Tea leaves continue to deserve attention, but unclear whether conclusions have been drawn. Here is a look at the updated demographics for Gongers to consider.:hmm:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/Demographics670BC.jpg


I'll conclude this report with one last personal spoiler in hopes of helping the team:
Expect communications from me to be less frequent and more fully considered as I have noted a bit too much over-confidence in how much my disability (bi-polar disorder) has been over-come. I will be paying more attention to the required sleep necessary for stability, and the resumption of other activities to keep me from wandering too far from the range. All future posts except those that require brief responses of information will include careful inspection of all the team's discussions and edited carefully for clarity and relevence to the matter discussed in the appropriate thread or in response to any questions from my fellow Gongers. I do believe this will help Team Gong do its best.:D

I believe we should sent Stone Pony´s curragh to soutwest and St. Alphonzos curragh to southeast along the coastal highways we discovered (that must be your plan prob).

If we dont pop Mapmaking we should trade it asap with Babe to start expanding overseas.

I believe its time Graceland stops producing workers and starts building a library, the benefits of a lib in 5/4 turns are better then 2 workers.

The Curragh near California girls should go northwest from Basement Hill, since the water seems brighter there and maybe theres a coastal strip similar to the ones in the south we already found.

The appearence of a Babe galley sugests this map´s continents are connected by coastal highways.

There are 5 cities near the Capital, California Girls should stay low pop (settler fact is ok) and Paradise city must go size 6 or bigger asap to build a lib.

Note: DSOTM is going for palace, but GreatLib his only 8 turns away.....

Hey, thanks for the input Rick.

I'm especially wanting directions on the fleet.

Those builds can be changed, too. So we can rush curragh's from any direction the team wants to try a voyage as gold allows. The deal with the Babes looks great and should free up our slider for >130gold a turn since they're going to do math and they'll be sending us MM soon.

I saw the Boat Train (curragh near Ring of Fire) sink when I ended the turn, unfortunately. We can rush that curragh from Basement on the Hill to check in that direction, soon.

The curragh SW from Stone Pony sounds good. The one from St. Alphonzo's in the same direction, unless we want to see some map to SE in the Babes direction?

The Edmund Fitzgerald near California Girls can go wherever the team suggests. I was thinking a voyage east from DSOTM to see if there is a passage near there. We would probably like to know if someone was approaching the Pyramids and if it was easy, I think.

It does appear this map has safe landing spots connecting continents, but our boats will have to spend one turn in the water. One thing I've noticed when I end turn is we know whether the boat sinks or not. I didn't see the Irish Rover sink and it survived. When it sunk I got the message as the barbs made their moves, so I'll keep reporting what happens to each boat at the end of turn. I'll give the amount of gold we'll have to rush on the next turn, since we have to make choices there.

I think we want a library sometime at Graceland, but we really need those workers at the moment, I think. More discussion is needed on that change I think.

I want to encourage advice like this so I added my comments here. The rest of the team should discuss ideas like these, so I'm not going to respond with my opinion to every suggestion. Keep those suggestions and advice coming. I think the more discussion the team has the clearer it becomes what's the consensus. What I've been trying to do is carry out the team's plan as I understood it, and giving my opinions as well (too much?). As far as I can tell, the only addition I've made is building up the site at Sugar Mtn. a little faster to give us options on these strategic wonders. Even if it never makes a wonder it looks like it can do FP and/or become a great military base(already suggested) soon with some nice culture and science as well. It's a little difficult to be TP in the anarchy model and see what's the team's direction, but I'm enjoying it, and have the time to keep up.:)

I'm not just new to CFC, I'm new to forums period. It is difficult to get the hang of it, so advice on posting is welcome as well. Maybe some friendly/helpful advice to my e-mail, if it's not appropriate to the forums. But I think I'll eventually figure it out. Intention and appearances are very hard to convey, no matter what you do, it seems. Discussing your struggle openly just seems to make it worse.:dunno: How can I be as open and honest as I am in public through these filters.:hmm: Foggy brain and too quick replies to one word without reading the rest don't help, though.:D

I forgot to mention the team as done one hell of a job so far, and you´ve been playing your turns very well princemyshkin.

"The Edmund Fitzgerald near California Girls can go wherever the team suggests. I was thinking a voyage east from DSOTM to see if there is a passage near there. We would probably like to know if someone was approaching the Pyramids and if it was easy, I think."

I believe it should go north (keypad 9) from basement hill since i clearly see a lighter-blue ocean tiles, sugestion another "highway" on that location

See my 4 destination sugestions pls:
153875

That's good stuff, Rick. :goodjob: Anybody got advice and suggestions about prorities on rushes and which paths on Rick's map to pursue first. I'm struggling with deciding these details myself thinking about all the goals Gonger's have. I might not have mentioned some in a while, but I haven't forgotten.

Do not forget, this world wraps East to West AND North to South.

We could not only find a civ in that direction but we should bare in mind that they can find us from there as well. If we set up a net of patrol boats we nead to cover our "bottom" as well. ;)

Route 1 looks highest priority. the coast looks to connect to other coast - whether thats just an Island or something else is what we need to find out.

Route 1 looks highest priority. the coast looks to connect to other coast - whether thats just an Island or something else is what we need to find out.

I haven't named the boat yet, but it will be departing on route one shortly. After looking at all the material from the team, I'm a little unclear whether we want to seek contacts now, or set up patrol boats. I was pretty happy to see that iron myself.:)

I haven't named the boat yet, but it will be departing on route one shortly.

I'm going walleye fishing this weekend so how about "Walleye's Bane"? Or we could stick to the song convention. The Love Boat?

Very, very happy to see the iron and the fact that we have two sources should be a big freaking clue as to how these landmasses are set up. If we trade Iron to the Babes it's going to come w/ the understanding that none of that Iron will EVER return to our shores in the form of a weapon.

I'm not really cleared up in my head, atm. So my apologies for no report just yet. I tried to go right to sleep, and managed to get some rest. But I also think I need to take my mind off the game for awhile, too. Please post, dicsuss, and think of the possibilty that someone else might need to take the turns for awhile. I will try to get well enough to review the turn and prepare my report, but I can't even keep up with passing the save. I have been encouraged by the responses of the teams and discussions, and also the appearance of members of the team that have not posted in a while discussing ideas and plans. Still hoping to feel better so I can give a more clear report. I just happened to walk by and noticed I had not sent the save even though I posted in the Turn Tracker, is why I'm sending this brief message, now.

My apologies for being so late with this report. The turn came around to Team Gong and I felt rested and ready to take the turn.

Upon opening the turn the first message was that the Gong Show had discovered iron working, finally enabling the training of our unique unit the Gallic Swordman and revealing the location of iron sources on the map. We did discover two sources of iron on the explored map, both in our territory unconnected by roads. One of these is located on the hill one tile north of Rockaway Beach. The other is located on the hill one south of Sugar Mountain where workers were already due to complete next turn. I did not build a road on the hill earlier since I felt this dense area of hills and mountains might have iron in them. This way we can still train warriors in one turn when our barracks completes at Paradise City. These can then be upgraded to Gallic Swordsmen for 90 gold there or any other city we have a barracks. Then the messages of what our cities built this turn appeared listed below.

1. Graceland built a worker and was left to produce another worker in one turn.
2. We Built This City built a settler and was left to produce a settler in 5 turns. [Note that these build times can be changed if the turn-player reassigns citizens to different tiles and to different cities where they are better used during the trun. I review these changes at the end of the turn normally until I'm satisfied that as much waste and inefficieny as I can find with effort is eliminated. Also, if a town can grow the next turn with a citizen removed from a tile that is providing no extra shields, commerce, or food to a nearby city, this citizen is turned into a specialist for one turn.]
3. Scarborough Fair built a settler with another settler due in 6 turns. [The build times on these sometimes also reduce when our cities grow as I usually try to get thes to grow in two turns.]
4. Stone Pony built a curragh with another curragh due in 15 turns.[After one turn this curragh could be rushed for 56 gold or four gold less for each additional turn until it would be completed with regular production in 15 turns or gain another shield per turn to speed up the build times.]

I've descibed in the above method since I have never explained my notation in most other reports. It was probably understood easily enough. The notation is:
city=>built unit or building-what I decided to build there next and the number of turns this will complete with a < in front of this number if I expected the city to grow and gain more shields per turn speeding the build. For example, the notation this turn would be the following:
Graceland=>worker-worker in 1
We Built This City=>settler-settler in 5
Scarboroug Fair=>settler-settler in 6
Stone Pony=>curragh in 15

The first action taken during the turn was to send the 150 gold required as agreed in our peace treaty and technology exchange deal with our new contacts The Babes(Iroquois civilization). I didn't see a deal in the window, but I believe the arrangement (I've not seen the final treaty yet) in essence was the following.

The Gong Show will give 150 gold this turn or as much down payment as they can to the Babes.
The Gong Show and The Babes agree to a non-agression (peace) treaty for 80 turns.
The Babes will provide the Gong Show with mathematics, the wheel*, horseback riding, and code of laws in four turns from the sending of the payment.
The Gong Show will pop two huts in four turns, with research set to philosophy since this will prevent that technology popping from the hut. Any technology gained, either currency or construction or both will be traded to the Babes with the difference in costs between the trade being paid by the other team.
They would share research at a discounted exchange rate and seek to make favorable trades with first right of refusal on resources and assurances about trades to other teams and not duplicate any research efforts for the remainder of the peace treaty.

One clause I saw in the CubSox Accord from memory was a clause about termination of the agreement upon written agreement, my vote on that would be no, I would not vote to break an agreement I signed, but this is a team game and the team can come to a consensus or vote on this matter at any time.
(Summary provided only by memory and written notes as details changed, such as the Babes researching mathematics. I've made another suggestion, but that is also up to the Babes as I've already sent payment for the agreement to the 80-turn non-aggression pact.)

My first action was to open the Foreign Advisor screen and send them 150 gold or as much as our civilization could afford. We only had 69 gold in our treasury and I forgot that you could also send gold per turn payments (amount of gold sent to another civilization per turn for twenty turns). I sent the Babes the 69 gold in our treasury, but then noticed we still had this gold in our treasury. Since I wasn't sure if this was the way it worked, I kept the turn open, took a screenshot showing the location of the two new iron deposits (see spoiler below) and posted in the Department of Turnplay thread in the Team Gong private forum of the Multi-Team-Democracy Forum of Civilization III. I informed my team of the situation and asked that a team member confirm my assumption, while I worked out firm estimates of the expected turns of build times at Dark Side of the Moon and Sugar Mountain and other information that would help the team. These are also in the following spoiler.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb228/Strastnik/IronatSugarMtn.jpg
Here's the info I have so far:
1. No fog remains at the Gong Show.
2. Research is off.
3. Huts are scheduled to pop when we receive math from the Babes.
4. 104 turn estimate on Glib at DSOTM and MoM at Sugar Mountain with 8-9 turns of WLTKD is still solid. This will cost ~600 gold to meet an accelerated production schedule with no payback if we lose out to Saber.
5. FP first, then GLib attempt at DSOTM with no more WLTKD is turn 113, with 3-turns of WLTKD turn 112


EDIT:1. We can do 4-turn research on both construction and currency during GA with no scientists on currency and construction and an easy 4-turns on philo arriving in MA on turn 112 popping no techs from huts. Turn 108 with 1 tech and turn 104 with 2 techs

While waiting I stayed up longer than I needed to remain clear and focused and I was also quite excited and happy that we did have iron at Sugar Mountain as this is expected to become our second city in two turns. I took a few actions from time to time. The curragh at Stone Pony was named Rick's Raft in appreciation for the fine naval map provided in post #143 of this thread by RickFGS. Also, I noticed your fine suggestions for sea unit names, jb, but I had already named the curragh. We're going to need more of these, but I'll try to come up with a name myself when a unit is built. Rick's Raft set sail on proposed route #1, but I altered this slightly by going one coastal tile south and one coastal tile southeast. This way Rick's Raft can spend only one turn out to sea with a chance of sinking instead of two chances of sinking before it would arrive at the safe coastal tile on the route. You probably meant this anyway. The Edmund Fitzgerald went one tile out to sea to reveal more ocean tiles beyond the sea and back to the coastal tile near Dark Side of Moon. RickFGS has also suggested the Edmund Fitzgerald continue traveling north near Basement on a Hill, but we will have the gold to rush another curragh at Basement on a Hill faster than the Edmund Fitzgerald can arrive. Since my suggestion is to send a boat on a voyage east of Dark Side of the Moon to reveal more tiles near our city with the Pyramids, I will work out if we will have the gold to rush (not needed elsewhere to accomplish the teams plans) a curragh there before sending the Edmund Fitzgerald on one of these voyages proposed by team members, if I am the turn-player.**

Other actions this turn were moving more workers onto the marsh tile west of Evermore to complete a road allowing more workers expected to be produced over the following turns to begin clearing the marsh the turn they arrive as this is a planned settlement site. These will then build a road to another marsh tile that needs clearing for a planned settlement site as towns cannot be founded on marsh tiles. Jeff Tweedy, one of our regular warriors, crossed the river near Graceland to be in the area for possible training as one our first Gallic Swordman as the treasury allows for 90 gold. Other warriors who were not needed to keep the fog clear on our island, after doing yeoman work in keeping the barbarians from disrupting the growth, properity, or celebrations during the Golden Age or before. We honor these brave warriors and as the treasury allows they will be trained into the Gong Show's finest as a reward and a surety of our continued safety and prosperity.

I needed also to make a choice this turn about what to allow to be completed at Dark Side of the Moon as it will have two hundred shields next turn. In the interests of the team and its plans, I decided that We Love the King Day (~600 gold) was simply too costly an investment for a Great Library another team may, likey Team Saber, build before we complete the grand storehouse of knowledge. I decided to let the Forbidden Palace complete there next turn and still have a chance to complete the Great Library on turn 113 or turn 112 with an expected 3-turns of WLTKD to provide the necessary production to meet the earlier schedule. The Forbidden Palace will add gpt to our treasury and decrease waste and corruption throughout our kingdom (we are a Monarchy gov't at the moment. This is really the original plan upon entering the Golden Age upon completion of the Pyramids. A temple on one turn, a Forbidden Palace expected to take 9 turns resuced to 8 turns successfully on the fine plan of teammate kc, followed by an attempt to complete the Great Lighthouse agreed by unanimous consent by the team. Our new peace agreement with the team that built this allows us to move on to the next priority on the build list provided by teammate RF, the Great Library. If another team builds this before we do we can then build the Temple of Artemis or possibly other wonders provided by the technology gained in the upcoming Middle Ages (Sistine's Chapel, Sun Tzu's War Academy, or Leonardo's Workshop. With the treasury slider set to 20% to prevent civil disorder in our one city and payment to the Babes of 4 gold per turn to pay for our peace we can expect to have 140 gold next turn.**

The F7 key revealed that no new wonders had been built, or were currently shown to be built. The Military Advisor shows we are still weak compared to the Babes. The victory screen shows we have slightly more power and culture with 27% of the world's population and 13% of the world's area. Our new contact the Babes have 21% of the world's population and 12% of the world's area. There was some movement in per-turn score as the Babes lost one point on the field and the Council and team Gong gained one point. There was no movement I recall in the demographics screen except a drop to #5 in literacy. This probably has a reason, but more than likely nothing useful or conclusive can be drawn from this up and down movement. The settler needed to pop the hut in the west will need to be rushed for 72 gold next turn in order to arrive on time, while the settler built at We Built this City will travel down the road and cross the river to arrive in time to found a city upon the silk near Abbey Road to pop the hut in the east.

It was about this time that your currently beleagered turn-player was feeling a little worn out, heady, possibly even drunken on the celebratrion that continues during our Golden Age in celebration of building the Pyramids at Dark Side of the Moon noticed the reply by teammate jb confirming that the diplomacy screen works the way he thought, but was reminded by teammate kc that he could also send gpt. Laughing at myself for how I quickly replied with the same response already given, I was shaken out of my confusion somewhat and set to the task of completing the turn, while also attempting to reply to comments to teammates at the time. I don't think this is such a good idea for me, but moderators can always take actions if they feel it is inappopriate forum conduct.

The final actions of the turn were the usual tile reassignments, including the hiring of a single tax man(see note 2 above) and an attempt to rename two of our regular warriors. One was named Eddie Spaghetti while the other was named Bob Dylan since I forgot we already had a warrior with this name. This can be changed by myself on the next turn if the team wants me to do so, but I prefer to leave it the way it is. Two other mistakes I made this turn were not noticing a road was not connected to Montreaux at the end of turn and we can expect, I think, our first town to experience civil disorder next turn. This town was not providing much but may cost the team one gold, next turn. I'll remember to check that more carefully in the future. Another mistake was accidentally releasing the mouse click button with the mouse hovering over a planned settlement site on the jungle tile between the banana and silk tile near The Watchtower with the settler from Scarborough Fair selected. I noticed this movement at the end of the turn and have asked for a ruling from the administrators. My suggested solution was to let the worker stay idle on the tile on the next turn and settle the site on the following turn. If another teammate takes the next turn and they agree with my suggestion, they need to remember to not perform any actions with it on turn 97. Upon reviewing the cities I felt something else wasn't quite right, but I really was not in good condition to think about as I needed to get some sleep right away. I posted the save as being passed in the Turn Tracker thread, but for the second time had failed to send the save to the Babes, and I apologize again for that to the team, administrators, and any other members of CFC or casual browsers who might have been disturbed by these actions. My problems shouldn't become yours. Good luck on all your efforts, everbody, I think I'll be checking into Cohan's Public House a little more to take a break, and read the news:)


*We could have researced this while they researched mathematics for less than 90 gold as contact with civilizations that have a technologhy reduce the time it takes for our civilization to research the technology, that is less total science beakers. But this thought occured to me only when

**By the way the rules are that any team member can take the turn when the turn has been passed to Team Gong as notified in the
Turn Tracker (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=199489)thread in the Multi-Team-Democracy-Game forum of CivIII. I think it would be best to notify the team of your intentions to take the next turn so their is no duplication of efforts or confusion in the game. Instructions for how to play get the save and what to do afterwards are in the Sticky:Getting the party started -- how to play a turn thread in this forum. Rules and other helpful information and threads are located in the Multi-Team-Demo-Game forum. Any other teammate that wants to do so can rename any unit they wish by selecting the show advanced unit actions button in the preferences menu when and if they take a turn. This is a game, our game, and our chosen model is anarchy and team members can participate or not in any way or at any time as they so desire.

I can play the next 20 turns if you guys want, but of course its the teams call.

PS: I´m honored for having a boat with my nick, i hope it doesnt sunk :D

Your welcome, Rick.:0 Can you tell us what happened on the turn? I was going to build a library at Sugar Mountain this turn and start the pre-build for the Great Library or Temple of Artemis at Dark Side of the Moon with a Palace. I'm going to sit in Cohan's Public House and see your report. I hope the boat doesn't sink either that's why I moved it to the tile I did. That way it can make it to the coastal tile with only one chance of sinking instead of two. You've got my vote.:)

You've got my vote.:)

Absolutely - play away

You've got my fullest support Rick. Go Play :band:

Turn 97

At opening the save
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4006/tradetechqu7.jpg


1 - Production

135gold (+160gpt)

Graceland - Worker -> New prod: Library
Great Walls of Fire - Warrior
Dark Side of The Moon - Forbidden Palace -> New Prod: Library in 3t
The Watchtower - Worker

Note: Montreaux rioted.

The Forbidden Palace
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6123/forbiddenpalacerr5.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8518/citytb5.jpg

2 - Maps

Full-View
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5669/mapouthz7.jpg

Core
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5797/direitaos2.jpg

3 - Advisors

Advisors F1
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/84/f1nu7.jpg

Advidors F3
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7984/f3cq1.jpg

4 - Actions/Events

- Graceland, Paradise City and Great Walls of Fire set to grow.
- Dont agree with placing a new city between Graceland and WatchTower
- Rick´s Raft sunked, i shall avenge it :D
- Payed 86 gold debt to Babe so they can send the other techs along now

5 - Needs:

- Worldmap

There should have been some discussion of plans to build a library in DSOTM and the capital. We will need a shortrush next turn on at least one of them (maybe DSOTM, rush a, well, we dont have anything to shortrush with I dont think, no granary or temple).

If you have something to pose to everyone, its fine to open the save and see what everyone thinks. The libraries arent bad at all (maybe good actually since we are going to do some research maybe soon and Graceland can go to size 6 for workers), but its a deviation from what we had planned.

Your right Killerkane, i believe we should rush library on cap, let it finish on DSOTM and then go Great Lib.

With the debt payment to BABE we lost some money and as they will send another stack of techs we will lose some more, so some numbers are gonna have to be runned for the rush at Graceland.

I launch a discussion also as to Graceland should continue to be a Worker City, i believe it should go level 10 at least to build a temple/marketplace.

Sugar Mountain is also an issue, its on palace work, was it intended for Leo´s Workshop/Sun Tzu? or should it go Great Library and DSOTM another way?

I´ll post a pre-turn note for everytime i get the save from now on.

I think whatever city can build Glib the fastest should be assigned. I'd also like us to name a town Townes van Zandt :)

Pre-turn 98

What should i rush? We have 212 gold, im building library at Graceland, DSOTM changed to Great Library, rdy in 13 turns, not bad :)

Or rush a barracks in Graceland for 112 gold spending only half the money, switching to library, going from 8 to 5 turns. This one really tempts me :) but is it against the rules?

2.8 - Build Sequence
Teams cannot break into the build sequence to change anything, including actions such as hurrying production of a building/unit, changing prebuilds to the desired build, changing city laborers around to prevent a riot, and changing any build to another build (say, from a factory to a rifleman due to nearby enemy units). Instead of taking these actions during the build sequence before your turn, please make these changes during your turn. If a team is wondering whether something would be considered breaking into the build sequence, please contact the administrators.


Or should i save the money? For gallics upgrades and so in case we need defenses

BABE sent Horseback Riding, where is Mathematics?

3 Cities are now in barracks construction, We Built This City, Paradise City and Great Walls of Fire.

Also Jb1964 ask what BABE wants for the worldmap.

short rushing in-turn is within the rules.

We can shortrush with a harbor in coastal cities it looks like; Graceland I guess just rush the whole thing (whole library I mean, really we need other things, but rushing the library means we will have the place at size 6 for now). Then it can go back on workers.

MAKE SURE THAT SETTLERS ARE BY THE HUTS TO POP THEM WHEN BABE FINISHES MATHEMATICS AND SENDS IT OVER!

GWOF should make a worker rather than a warrior or barracks, I think the worker would be due in 1 turn. Its a worker factory, and we need 100-200 more workers for rushing stuff. Every worker is essentially stored production we can use anywhere!

Turn 98

At opening the save we received Horseback Riding

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9119/semttulouo6.jpg

1 - Production

212gold (+162gpt)

Nubush City - Settler
Abbey Road- Worker
Rock Lobsterford - Worker
CBGB- Worker

2 - Actions/Events

- Founded Townes Van Zandt and Sunset Strip
- Graceland going 7 next turn, Paradise City going 5, Great Walls of Fire going 5 and Sugar Mountain on 7, will try to get it to 8.
- Dont agree with placing a new city between Graceland and WatchTower so moved settler.
- We now have 40 Workers, we need at least 50 more.
- Spent 112 gold rushing Barracks and switching to library (5 turns left now) in Graceland
- We Build This City receives 10 shield from chop to hurry a barracks.

3 - Needs:

- Worldmap and Math

4 - Demographics

- Number 1 in all except for family size..

5 - Wonders

Great Library rdy in 13 - DSOTM

Turn 99

At opening the save we received nothing. Where´s Math? :mischief:

1 - Production

265gold (+164gpt) Thats an +2 increase from previous turn.

* Dirty Old Town; California Girls; - 2 Settler
* Ring of Fire, Motor City Five, Love Shack, Hangar 18 - 4 workers

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/932/armadadr6.jpg

2 - Actions/Events

- Positioning Settlers for new cities according to current dotmap;
- Graceland at 7, going size 8 in 3 more turns;
- Great Walls of Fire going size 6 in 2 more turns;
It cant pass level 6, no aqueduct but will build worker after barracks and stay at level 6.
- 3 Cities making Barracks in order to provide 3 vet-warrior bases for gallic jump in case we need to defend, Babe and Council seem to be for going conquest victory.
- Spent 149 gold rushing Library at Graceland;
- Rock Lobsterford changed to temple (harbor after) and will be set to grow (has wheat and 3 grass tiles plus moutain mines to make it a productive city) since its an strategic position for naval activity;

3 - Needs:

- Worldmap (how much\what they want for it?) and Math

4 - Demographics

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9674/demogaphvo1.jpg

5 - Wonders

Great Library rdy in 12 - DSOTM

Sugar Mountain can make Hanging Gardens in 11 turns, what do you guys think on this one, it goes as far as Steam Power....3 happy´s in Sugar and 1 happy in all other is powerfull stuff...plus its 2 great wonders in 2 turns..ouch...

6 - Maps

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/345/empirewo3.jpg

7 - Pyramids effect - Score

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/40/score2fp0.jpg

I think spitting out great wonders is cool. We have choosen 100K which is a very unexpected strat so why not throw shields en masse into wonders and be a surprise there too. Heck, we're supposed to be entertaining so let's go for it :dance: . Looks like we're #1 in pop/area/mfg goods so things are going our way, let's enjoy for as long as we're not dogplied.
Side note: I think that when we decide to build troops we should do it large scale because when they come, they should come in big numbers. How's the island defense thought doing? Has it died or is it something we should go ahead and do?

I asked about Math but did not get an answer.

What was the decision on the GLib build? I thought the majority wanted it quickly but IIRC it's been delayed.

Whomper thinks Council and Free are going conquest as well. As soon as they get to Caravels it's throwdown time.

I think we're gonig to get a map that blots out the Babe's homeland.

Graceland-> No size 8, more 1 turn workers. Great Wall of Fire is on a river, and can grow to size 7. But it needs to produce workers as well for the time being.

We get math from BABE. Looking forward to popping huts and returning the favor, I find that we have no settlers in position to pop said huts! :( This problem is compounded by the fact that only one settler can get into position this turn.

Castle Donnington riots. Sweet Home Alabama is about to riot so it gets a taxman.

Several towns are building workers to complete before they grow from size 1 so those are reassigned to catapults.

We produce 5 workers from various towns and now have 49. Our settler production is too good, we dont have enough city spots! Change a settler to a worker in Dirty Old Town and Woodstock.

Numerous towns are changed to be at +5 food. No wonder we arent #1 in family size any more. Now I have to apologize to BABE for not being able to send over the freaking techs that should have been attempted to pop this turn.

Some pictures. I noticed also that workers are roading in the jungle when there are so many more important things they should be doing. All in all it looks pretty disappointing. I vote that Rick should be impeached. Sorry man, but if you cant take the time to do things right then you shouldnt be taking the turns. Its not that a city is rioting, that happens every game when you forget something, its the fact that not having settlers in place delays 2 turns for no real reason and hurts our reputation with the other team. Our ducks need to be in order. It was very clear how important this was, and the settlers were easily available to be put into place 2 turns ago, and even if they werent they could have been bought with all the gold lying around in our coffers!

We have a lot of gold available. We can buy some more workers with this surplus to cut the wetlands in the picture for a couple more settling spots. Then we can run up cities on the islands and we will be done settling, and can focus on much needed military in some spots. On the Sugar Mountain/DSOTM issue, I am leaning again towards Colossus in DSOTM and Great Library in Sugar. Reason being that delaying GL a bit will cause the two MA teams to think its safe and trade across at least Invention and maybe even Guns before they realize we have the Library.

I could play the turns in time now, i only delayed it one time and i was kind to annouce my delay.

As for your statements:
- I believe im doing a good job since: connecting cities is far more important then 3 workers be doing irrigation in a city already growing in 10 turns and pumping workers in 10, since gdp will increase, also im connecting another luxury; also workers are focusing in core clearing jungle, its true some are roading because after road is finish i can clear that spot in a turn, much better then waiting more turns or losing all movements to a bunch of workers;
- May i add that settler disposition in my part was perfect and at the best time possible, i though math was going to be delayed even more so, didnt realized it as a major issue, as for popping we can pop next turn one village and another next turn - compensanting for the turn babe took from us, if they arent satisfied just send money along;
- My building choices were perfect and what you´ve done of changing to workers a settler factory i was going to do this turn, but wanst going to waste shields on a settler due to be in 1 turn!;
- DSOTM should finish Great Lib asap and Sugar Mountain should make Hanging Gardens (will provide much more money then Colossus in mid/long term);
- I finished a Library on Graceland (now in size 8 i may add) and produced a lot more workers in 2 turns, and will be producing even more, i received a city rioting in the turn i started playing;
- I though i add 20 turns to play not just 2;
- As for the military i already have 3 barracks finishing and will be pumping vet warriors in no time, may i add i was clealry sutborn in this while other team members wanted worker production;
- Settlers where put into destinations at the maximum speed, i received a settler standind in a jungle north of graceland without movement points, as you know it took me 3 turns to redirect him, what can i do?;
- As for apologies to BABE? i remind you that they also delayed Math for one turn.

All in all i think i did a good job, wish you a good game killerkane and thks for giving me 2 turns to play since you have already taken over.

Im also leaving this team and this game since i dont like being impeached. Cheers mates and have fun.

Sorry I meant no offense. I just thought someone should say something, and there is simply no excuse for not having the settlers in place, delaying the game unnecessarily in the turntracker, and changing the whole course of the game without some point/counterpoint argument. Of course this is only my opinion, and Im sure doesnt reflect the opinion of the team, so dont leave for goodness sake! Im getting married this weekend so Im a bit on the crabby side :).

Guys, the save is in and we need a turnplayer.

I'll be back in about 3 hours. If nobody gas taken it by then I'll take it but you guys don't really want that.

Aight, things are heating up. Seems like the big disagreement is over the settlers popping huts in time. Killer thinks the issue was clearly stated, Rick thinks not. Ig we're approaching the stage were we, as a team, has to decide on which GW's to go for in SMountain and The Moon I think we should, as a team, vote on it. Personally I don't have Math so any elaborate explanation on which gives the most is wasted on me. I think GLib is a given and the other...hmmm....does HG's help us towards a 100K in any noticable way? We will have fun with either of 'em.
I could take the turn just so have something real to be upset about..
:joke:

The Great Lib is the top priority.

After that I think the HG are the next best bet for being only 300s and giving 4cpt and 1 content per city.

ToA is a good fallback wonder.

Dagie, thanks for taking the turn.

Where's the last posting of our dot map? Nevermind, I found it.

No, really, I was joking. If we're totally out of TP's I will do the turn tomorrow morning which is 8hrs from now here in Sweden. I won't blow it completely but expect no gamebreaking cool moves, haha.

Found Guitar Town (Steve Earl debute) and we get 50 g's :mad: --> worker
Settler in place to pop the other hut next turn
Whiskeytown (Ryan Adam's former band) is placed along the coast -->worker
Palace of the Brine (Pixies song from Tromp le Monde) is founded. It's a low food, high shield town which makes 3 spt so is set on rax.

Workers work and a bunch is placed in the jungle N of Graceland.
I don't know if we can hide our building of the GLIib since everyone can F7 and see what we're doing.

:crazyeye: I take full responsibility for sending 25 g's to Babes as a gift. We have been late with the popping and got only 50 g's out of the first one so it seems fair to share that with them. We had 536 in the kitty, making 182 gpt, so it won't kill us. What we lose in gold here we might win in reputation and that could IMIO have a bigger payoff in the long run :crazyeye:

Riot check is cool ;)

All in all we're looking really good here so let's party! I won't post too many screenies since my gear's too slow for my patience. Instead you'll get some stats:
pop: 30 vs babes 19
area: 15 vs 13
cult total: 277 vs 199
On F11 we're #1 in: pop, GNP, Mfg. goods, area, pollution, life expectancy and productivity

We are weak vs Babes

We have 41 cities, 3 settlers, 53 workers, 13 warriors and 1 curragh

I left everything pretty much as it was so I don't think there will be any major bloopers. I used Killers dotmap in the city planning thread to place the settlers and I do hope that one is the Mothership Map. It was the only one I found anyway. Cities that completed workers were set on more workers and I checked for timing of completion/growth but Killer had allready made every change there was.

EDIT: I just saw this from jb in dpt of TP-thread: For the next turnset please set research to Currency so Construction is the first option for a popped hut
"Luckily" enough we didn't pop a tech, but this should be done in the next turn since I didn't. Res is still on Rep if I remember correctly.

Sending the 25g was a good gesture. I'm all for it and think it was a good snap call.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p265/dagisfroken/construction.jpg
We had better luck w the second hut fellas :D

Found T for Texas and...WoOoT, we get Constuction!!!
Send Construction accepted to Babes.
Otherwise not much to report. Workers keep working and some are assigned to build roads along the coast so we can move our defense easily. The bulk of workers are placed in the core jungle. Should we hook up Iron asap?

Found T for Texas and...WoOoT, we get Constuction!!!
Send Construction accepted to Babes.
Fantastic! The Babes will be pleased.
I sent them (Whomp and Wotan) a note today telling them that they have not been particularly chatty and I wanted some feedback on Maps, Sabre, Free/Council, etc. Maybe this will loosen their lips.

Otherwise not much to report. Workers keep working and some are assigned to build roads along the coast so we can move our defense easily. The bulk of workers are placed in the core jungle. Should we hook up Iron asap?
I'm thinking that we need to start putting in place a military. The wonders are going to be pouring in on turns ~111, 112 and then we'll be marked. We need to have GS's running about before then and now is the time to start.

Wow, great news! I'll start blabbing at the Babes again when I get a chance.

How are we doing on cash and vet warrirors? at 90G per upgrade we should be able to save up enough, so I would go for delaying connecting the iron until we have more veteran warriors than we can upgrade with current cash.

As long as we're making units and can keep some workers close to the iron I'm all for that.

It's just that we're not geting the kind of feedback from the Babes that make me feel like we're in the loop. I'm getting that paranoid feeling that somebody's talking behind my back and they're holding a club. :(

Adding to this the jb-Whomp chat on a long term agreement I agree on waiting for the hook-up. We'll go for more warriors for now and keep an eye on the cash/upgrade cost ratio.

nutbush -->rax
Dirty old -->worker
Paradise-->warrior
Scarborough-->rax
RoF-->worker
Cali girls-->worker
Abbey->worker
Malice-->worker
Sweet home-->worker
GoF: change to rax to not pop a worker before growth

Graceland is changed to rax and IMIO it should pump military soon. To do that we need to mine some irrigated tiles. This is just my suggestion and anyone interested should have a look at the save and comment
I know that worker prod. is a biggie here but even with the changes we have 27 in production and 63 at work.
Change a few production in the outskirts from workers to cat's not to lose pop
Assign a few taxmen for some g's
The Reid bro's go NW for sentry/blocking

My suggestion is we rax all the 1st ring towns and build workers in the hicks. Next turn we will found the jungle city N of Graceland. Chops in the area should be directed towards a rax there.
The N iron is being hooked up as requested.

Found Yellow Brick Road-->worker

We didn't get Currency this turn

Area: 16 vs 13
Pop: 29 vs 19
(we're catching up on Babes in score too so we're doing great atm)

Pete's End is founded on the jungle in our core and gets a taxman. We have a good number of workers (62) that will finish up clearing the jungle soon. All the cities set to grow get workers bought except the NW most town which will buy a worker next turn. This will be 14 more workers to take us to 76.

A city about to riot gets a taxman (Cariboo).

Sin City is getting a forest chop for the temple in 3 turns.

Palace of the Brine is getting 3 shields and is set to build a worker but it is size 1 so it gets a catapult.

3 workers are added to Sugar Mountain to get it to 30 shields per turn @ size 10 with 5 happy and 5 unhappy. It is pretty on par with DSOTM with both showing GL due in 7 turns. Sugar Mountain will have more long term shields.

A market is set up at Graceland in two turns (it will pick up the grassland that the worker is finishing the mine on this turn). It can then produce units galore.

Ring of Fire gets a Courthouse since it is better than a library there. It will need a harbor sometime in addition to Library/Temple. It can whip the library pretty easily.

Monotheism is started but at a snail's pace. What do we want to do here? It gains us nothing unless we shoot on to Astronomy, and then the GLibe is kind of worthless. BABE wants mono but I think it is just they dont want us to get as much bang for the buck as the GL will give.

The Ottoman capital of Baldric is size 7 with no growth?? What could be going on here?

DoT- Worker-> Worker
Paradise City- Warrior-> Warrior
Ring of Fire- Court-> Libe
Cali Girls- W-> W
Evermore W-> W
Motor City Five, Sin City, Montreaux, CBGB, Rockaway Beach, Hangar 18, Sweet Home Bama, E Street, No Name Streets, Cariboo, and Sunset Strip-> all produce workers.
Town called Malice-> Settler, put on the galley from LoveShack and will be founded on the island next turn.
Love Shack-> galley->worker
Hotel California-> Cat-> temple

In 5 turns we will have mono and send it over on turn 109 for the BABEs. We have 201 science +10 scientists (231).

I will now make a list of cities and try to prioritize worker tasks to get them closer to where they can be added in and whipped away where needed.

From the NW:
Castel Donnington (size 2)-> will be size 2 still in 5 turns but with 2 workers from here. (Needs 3 workers (N3)).
Love Shack (2)-> will be size 4. (N1)
Montreaux (1) -> will be size 2. (n3)
Sweet Home Bama (1)-> will be size 2 (n3)
Malice-> will be size 5 n0
Sin City -> will be size 4 n1 or 0 with forest chops.
Rockaway Beach-> will be size 3 n2
On Flame-> will be size 5 n0
Smoke on the Water-> will be size 5 n0

West cities
Motor City-> will be size 4 n1
Heartbreak Hotel-> will be size 4 n1
Cariboo-> will be size 2 n3
Streets have no name-> will be size 3 n2
Sunset strip-> will be size 2 n3
Whiskeytown-> will be size 2 n3
Evermore- will be size 3 n2
Woodstock- will be size 5 with temple already n0
DoT- will be size 4, n1
Guitar Town- will be size 2 n3
Palace on Brine- ditto n3

South cities
Yellow Brick Road-> switching it to a grass to grow it to size 2 n3
Van Zandt-> will be size 3 n2
Hotel California-> will be size 4, n1
Stone pony-> size 5 n0
Rock Lobsterford-> size5 w. temple n0
St. Alphonzos- size 5 w/ temple n0

The core will produce normally pretty well and wont need much if any whipping. The NE is only a few cities, but will need about 14 workers to join. All in all most land should be cleared/improved minus jungle/hills/mountains outside of the core and we should have about 25-30 workers left. The big problem is getting the bulk of our workers from the jungle in the core to where they will be needed efficiently (ie working as they go). This will take more contemplation but we should have a plan in place, any suggestion on the problem would be most helpful.

If you need to you can always short cash rush before we revolt. At a cost of up to 80G that could save a worker in an otherwise hard to reach location. Has anyone compared Feudalism with monarch for corruption/income purposes or do we have republic now? It might be worth seeing what the breakeven point is for units before one costs more than the other.

Good point. We will have to see how much gold we have at that time since our golden age ends and some of those growth numbers will be turned to scientists. Since we are getting Feudalism by trade I suppose revolting from Big Picture doesnt help, so all of turn 110 will be getting stubborn size 2 cities to 10 shields via rush. We will only have about 200 gold at that time though.

Weren't we one turn faster than Babes to Mono/Feud? If so, the 1 turn zero science might help.

We are definitely faster in golden age but that ends on turn 108, so that will have to figured out, but I dont think there will be any problem. We have 120 gold losing 16 per turn IIRC; some of this is unit costs though which will be alleviated when we found 3 cities next turn. If we were a republic we would be paying out the nose for units (we would be -111 per turn with 102 in unit costs!).

With such a population/worker advantage (#1 in pop and we probably have twice the number of workers as anyone else), we could shoot to astro and land a ton of units on someone very effectively if we wanted to forgo 100K. Something like 80 units and the ships to cart them over within 35 turns under Feudalism (probably pay BABE (who will be in golden age) to do the research to cover their unit costs and we just whip a bunch of stuff). Even if they get muskets up we could still bring a heck of a lot of trebs before they get cannons/cavalry.

Boy Oh Boy, do we have a cool set-up or what?! A couple o hundered units for defense is mighty fine too :D

Boy Oh Boy, do we have a cool set-up or what?! A couple o hundered units for defense is mighty fine too :D

The problem is that they are all workers at the moment!

Yes they have to go through an alchemical conversion to buildings or units or a mix of both. I think trying to do both at the same time will get us no where, we have to go with one or the other, which is gonna be culture. I just wanted to point out that with the setup we can still go either way!

If it's either or, then my vote goes to the culture bomb (but both would've been nice).

He who chases after two rabbits...

Graceland- Market-> Worker
Paradise City- Wa-> Wa
Abbey- W-> W
Watchtower- W-> W
Smoke- W-> W
Castle Donnington- W-> W

Marmalade Skies, Kokomo, and Slade Castle are founded. We have 105 gold and are losing -11 gpt. Some scientists are switched to growth where appropriate since we have some more irrigated tiles now. We have 1 more turn left on the golden age.

We need to produce one more settler for the island, and one for the soon to be finished former marshland. Slade Castle will have to be replaced, it is taking up the spots for 2 cities right now (currently covered by marsh). Really not a very exciting turn, but I have included Civassist photos for everyone's perusal, and one of those is what to expect after our golden age (should be a base 150 science/gold per turn, not including specialists, we will get this to grow soon).

Graceland- Worker-> Worker
Paradise City- Wa-> Wa
Dirty Old Town- W-> W
GWOF- Temple-> Libe
We Built this City- Temple-> Libe


Mono in 3 at -12 per turn. This is our last turn of golden age. We are making slow but relentless efforts in terraforming from the NW on south; all the forests there should be cut by Feudie time. The Great Library will pop up in 4 turns. Not much else to report.

DSOTM riots! I thought we wouldnt have to raise the lux slider until this turn; our shields/commerce were still doubled last turn as if in golden age. I suppose it is different in multiplayer. No other city riots so Sugar Mountain is still on track for the GL. Sorry about that. The bad thing is it has only 316 shields, not the 326 anticipated so there is no way to get it in 3 turns, it will have to be 4 from now, on turn 112.

4 workers are produced. 31 are added to our towns to make them super science cities for this turn. Our granary boxes are all full so they will not lose a population, and the excess will be whipped away in 3 turns when we become a Feudal government. What is the status on the treaty btw?

OK, 84 shields in Sugar Mountain in 4 turns. That works out to a nice 21spt.

I have casually asked Whomp about the treaty and only ever gotten a note that he would try to move things along. I'll ask again when I tell him to investigate the Sabre city.

Another turn that we're not notified that the GLib is gone is a good turn.

What do we build in DSOTM if we pop GLib in S-mountain? The Gardens? Colossus is nice, but that would be wasting shields, no?

What do we build in DSOTM if we pop GLib in S-mountain? The Gardens? Colossus is nice, but that would be wasting shields, no?

The GL will certainly give us additional choices.]

Colossus - 200s, 3c, expires w/ flight, +1g per tile
HG - 300s, 3c, expires w/ steam, 1 unhappy to content
Leo's - 600s, 2c, never , half the cost
Sun Tsu's - 600s, 2c, never, racks everywhere
Sistines - 600s, 6c, never, double cathedras

Colossus - best c/s ratio but we're way past the 200s. +12gpt would last through ~20 required techs prior to Flight. I'm not sure if we'll need bombers to protect our shores so we may never see it expire. Minimum number of turns researching w/ Babes would be ~50 (600g).

HG - a c/s ratio of 1 but we would also be overspending here as well. Steam would only be ~6 techs away assuming we get the lower tier from the FC axis of dirtbags.

Leo's - half the gold of whatever we have to upgrade for as long as we're upgrading. This could be a lot of coin but I don't know our composition at the moment to take a stab at the total number of gold savings.

Art of War - no

Sistine's - similal c/s ratio as HG & Colossus w/o the overspending but at 2x the price. Provides the largest cpt of all wonders and we like that. Cathedrals go from 3 unhappy/content to 6. With this wonder it's possible that we would never need to use the entertainment slider. Ever. This wonder would likely be available to us for the entire game.

Agree Sistines is the way to go - extra happy means more room for the whip. That is the upside. Now lets consider the downside.

what happens if we get beaten to Glib? Cascade to ToA and/or Palace to hold the sheilds from the two cities? are we better to change S mountain to ToA until GLib comes in so we can switch DSOTM to Palace on the interturn if we get beaten so no loss of shields?

RF has the plan. Just don't waste the shields.

Yesterday was crazy busy so I didnt have time to do a proper report. There is not much to say however. We get Mono and ship it to Babes, produced a worker in the capital, and changed everyone to growth or tax. We make 211 gpt (or alternatively we could research Theology in 4 turns). There are still a couple of cities starving from not having any useful tiles to work.

Heres something though: after adding all those workers we have 33% of world population :lol:. Too bad it will be gone soon.

And lets cross our fingers we dont get attacked anytime soon either. Since the treaty is now signed, can we ask BABEs for Feudalism or we dont want it yet?

I think we can ask for it now so we can get the whip going asap, then start building a MDI/Pike force to cover our coasts. I guess it's some time before we can trade Babs for horsies.

what happens if we get beaten to Glib? Cascade to ToA and/or Palace to hold the sheilds from the two cities? are we better to change S mountain to ToA until GLib comes in so we can switch DSOTM to Palace on the interturn if we get beaten so no loss of shields?

Perhaps this is due to my ignorance of how multiplayer works, but switching the build on the inter-turn sounds a lot like breaking into the build order, which I thought was forbidden by the rules...

Anyhow, as this is my first post for Team Gong, perhaps you guys could steer me a little (and also tell me if I'm posting this in the wrong thread here...) :)

I spent a couple of hours the other night reading up on the situation and getting a little more insight into the...uhh...offbeat personality of this team. ;) This game sounds like too much fun. :)

Before I try and comment more on our situation, are there any particularities I should be aware of for human-human civ games, such as strategies, things to watch out for, etc.? If you say just roll with the flow and do your best, that's cool with me ;), but if there's anything specifically that comes to mind, I'm all ears.

I've been playing strategy board games vs humans since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, so hopefully that'll help guide me over the learning curve...

Heya Othniel...

The turnplay log is somewhat, only somewhat, reserved for reporting on the turnplay... and the Department of Turnplay is more of the place where we have the discussions as to what directions to steer the odd boat.

The other really hot thread is the Diplomatic thread w/ Team Babe.

In these threads you'll find a few lingering beefs from the first multi-player game as well as some solid friendships. But more than anything you'll find some solid respect for some of the top players. That respect manifests itself in many ways... for instance, Team Babe has a healthy respect for the players on Team Sabre as well as some lingering scores to settle. And that is why the first battle that breaks out here is going to be the Babes landing on their shores. At least that's my prediction.

Babes might have respect for some of us but more than that they have some strong friendships and that is why we've been able to play loose w/ them when it comes to the passing of info and open-ended agreements on techs and what the future holds for us.

More later....

MTDG's are a lot about building strong alliances w/ people you trust. It's a balance btw trust/honour and knowing that, in the end, only one team can win. What we're doing is backbinding Babes with an agreement we know will prevent them from being hostile to us while planning on dropping a cult bomb and then sit thight defending our island.

Nothing much happening again except we are numero uno in score! As irrelevant as that is in the grand scheme of things its still nice to know.

We still have a couple of cities starving but not for long when we get Feudie. 2 turns until Glibe. I used our gold to get some more workers, set up library rushes by buying some spears, and finished rushing some temples. Good bad, do we want to do something else with available funds? Upgrading units?

Sugar Mountain on 2 turn MDIs when it completes the Library? Or after libe/cath/temple?

Perhaps this is due to my ignorance of how multiplayer works, but switching the build on the inter-turn sounds a lot like breaking into the build order, which I thought was forbidden by the rules...
It looks like you are correct. I must have drank my beer and passed right over that one. And we are guilty of this infraction so we have to self report that (the turn after takeover from Rick to prevent a riot, I think it was in the turnlog). It seems like TimBentley or someone prevented a riot earlier too. This is kind of a silly rule IMO since it is pretty normal play in GOTM/HOF/whatever and wasnt in the first MTDG but still, good catch Othniel. Does someone want to pm Regentman or GingerAle?

It looks like you are correct.

Bummer that I was probably right... :(

I don't know RegentMan or Ginger Ale, so I'd prefer to not volunteer for the task of reporting. I agree that it seems like a stinky rule because AFAIK it's allowed for all the other major CFC competitions.

P.S. Thanks for the MTDG tips, jb and daghdha. It's a good/bad tradeoff for me to know so few of the other players when it comes to making alliances: they have no reason to trust me...and no reason to distrust me and vice versa. Of course, being on a team kinda makes that a moot point for now. ;)

I have the turn up in front of me. We have workers produced from Graceland and 3 swamp cities. St. Alphonzo's gets a temple->libe and Rock Lobsterford gets the same deal. Evermore produces a settler->temple.

Since we are getting down to the nitty gritty, are there any orders? The turns will probably take longer from here on out to coordinate what everyone wants and some argumentation.

Check for any enemy units around- done, none there.
Check for GLibe build- done, not built yet.
Check for unhappies- done, Nutbush City needs a taxman, 56 shields in the box and set to make 4 so it will whip the library when out of revolt and is at 60 shields.

We get Feudalism from BABEs. Do we want to revolt? I vote yes but not before rushing some stuff. The -4 gpt to BABEs will be alleviated by having taxmen in anarchy so we wont be negative gpt. We want to build GLibe before we revolt or wait another turn? JB might have a heart attack in the interim though :).

Do we want BABE to take some pics of the Sabre city and discuss waiting on GL? Or go ahead and build it?

I'm in for rush and revolt. Build the GLib asap unless Babes agree on paying half cost for investigation of as many cities needed to get sure.
You're doin' a great job killer :goodjob:

Pardon my ignorance, but why would we want to delay the GLib and build it in another city? I would vote to build it now unless there are some compelling reasons I don't know about... :hmm:

I'd also vote for using up our available cash and then revolting. That's assuming we would wait on that revolt until we build the GLib so we don't shoot ourselves in foot. Even being religious would still mean we have 1 turn lost production, right?

I just also realized how undefended we are. Wow and kinda :eek: Did we not want to upgrade some of the warriors to Gallics for roving stop-gap defense or would they be too few to matter against a determined human invasion?

I just also realized how undefended we are. Wow and kinda Did we not want to upgrade some of the warriors to Gallics for roving stop-gap defense or would they be too few to matter against a determined human invasion?

Too few to matter IMIO. I still think we should build enough numbers to have a shield preventing landings until marines. That would be 30-40 units.

Hahaha, you guys are killing me. But it's a good hurt! :lol:

I would rather not have to explain a revolt and delay to Whomper and Wotan. They totally threatened to send over a boatload of Babes that would leave me in my death throws, but w/ a smile on my face (only visible once they had, umm, disembarked), if I didn't cough up the GLib. Ya, I think the Babes would take the revolt and delay poorly. My heart would explode. :help: But hey, what does eveyone else think?

You understand my desire to finish the GLib first, however, this is a democratic anarchy and I will follow the idiotic majority whatever be their wishes.

I also totally concur w/ Daghie that Cane is doing a bang-up job! :goodjob:

Too few to matter IMIO. I still think we should build enough numbers to have a shield preventing landings until marines. That would be 30-40 units.

Babe's don't know we're wide-open, do they? Because if they did, and I were them, I'd stab now, deal or no deal. Right now we are at our most vulnerable and the GLib is almost online.

It seems imperative to me to have some cities pumping axes for landing prevention duty.

Babe's don't know we're wide-open, do they? Because if they did, and I were them, I'd stab now, deal or no deal. Right now we are at our most vulnerable and the GLib is almost online.

It seems imperative to me to have some cities pumping axes for landing prevention duty.
They know they're stronger than us but not that it is by a stables lenght. Backstabbing a partner with a deal is an absolute :nono: in my book and I know that is the opinion of a lot of Babes too. It may give a payoff in short term, but if you want to make other deals (in this or future MTDG's) you're dead meat. That's why the wording/timing of treaties are so crucial. They should be bendable but not breakable. I know there's other ways of looking at this, but me I want to be able to do diplo and be trusted, in this and in coming games. All in all, I'm not worried about Babes jumping us now that the deal is sealed.

I totally agree that it would serve the Babes well to slaughter us now but that's just not going to happen.

The treaty can be broken but to do so would leave them so screwed now and forever that's it's just not worth it. I would admire the guts, the sound decision, the execution, and then I would plot with all my strength to bring about their demise.

Also, long, long ago we had hoped for EXACTLY this situation w/ the Babes. We've looked into their deep lovely eyes, seen their "soul", and know we can do business w/ them.

I have also made it clear to Whomper and Wotan that we have more than enough GS's running about to thwart any FC-Axis landing. If they ever had the notion of attacking I would think they trust me enough to think long and hard about their chances of success. It doesn't matter that our defenses are all inflatable plastic dolls. What matters is that they think we have fast moving, crazed, sword-wielding, red head marauders on the prowl.

MW's don't hold up too well to GS's.

They know they're stronger than us but not that it is by a stables lenght. Backstabbing a partner with a deal is an absolute :nono: in my book and I know that is the opinion of a lot of Babes too. It may give a payoff in short term, but if you want to make other deals (in this or future MTDG's) you're dead meat. That's why the wording/timing of treaties are so crucial. They should be bendable but not breakable. I know there's other ways of looking at this, but me I want to be able to do diplo and be trusted, in this and in coming games. All in all, I'm not worried about Babes jumping us now that the deal is sealed.

I agree that a stab would be a big black mark on anyone's record, especially in these MTDG where there are such long-term relationships. Speaking of which, I'm glad you guys know the Babes so well...makes cutting a long-term deal a lot easier to swallow. :)

That said, it's fascinating how the lines can blur between RL and games, especially when it comes to trust. I suspect that the long-term relationship aspect of these games normally wins out over the perfect stab, but there is always that chance people can isolate RL from the game and simply play to win in the short run.

It's that possibility that makes me ever so slightly nervous. ;) On solo, I'd probably start hedging my bets and make defense now. Of course, I think we should hedge our bets in this thing as well because the risk/return from not having more military units seems to be getting ever more precarious. But, I bow to your guys' greater MTDG experience and relationship with the good ol' Babes if you prefer to wait. :)

Very well put, jb, and completely :lol: History teaches that paper defenses can and do work well on many an occasion.

Now off to actually think of an example from history where this is true... ;)

*Edited to remove lengthy quote...people can just look back a couple posts...

I'd wait, but not for waitings sake. Just that I believe a Babe invasion is not happening and Da Bags are going lower tire and, of course, Sabre is going nowhere by the looks of it. I agree playing honorably isn't everyones cup of tea and that fact can make you history, but it will be some history. Anyway, as jb pointed out, I'm on a team and will accept team decisions either way.

Did we have to accept Feudalism from Babes? - that means no more GS's - ever! I say we go for the GLib as fast as possible, don't understand the talk of delaying. Glib then military then rushed culture.

I believe we have gotten Feud and accepted, the upside being we can start pop rushing cult asap. Downside is no more 2 movement swords and to that no goats. I still think accepting was right.
Awaiting the turnlog with no nails left to chew on. Knuckles next.

I believe we have gotten Feud and accepted, the upside being we can start pop rushing cult asap. Downside is no more 2 movement swords and to that no goats. I still think accepting was right.
Awaiting the turnlog with no nails left to chew on. Knuckles next.

Dude, you crack me up. :D

Even if we held off for a turn I don't know that we had any GS's in the build order. The only thing taking Feud messed with was the option to revolt and my heart rate. :lol: :cry:

What I'm sweating is the next SAV. Either we've got the GLib and have totally SCREWED Sabre or we didn't. If they don't get it then they're big wonder city will have no place to dump the shields because they don't have the needed techs.

The turnlog is already up; its yesterdays! Since we wait we cant rush anything yet so we save the money for next turn to even everything out. No revolt, and we wait for the Library next turn. So I didnt do much of anything...

Kewl... So Daghie can chew on his digits for another few days and I think I'll take a vacation from talking w/ the Babes and let them twist in the wind.

Once the next turn is in I'll work on making the Babes feel foolish for not sharing the earlier data in a timly fashion.

I know it wasn't much of a turn but it's the end of one very nice, well played phase and the start of the "KillerCane the temple whipping boy" phase. :goodjob:

We bag the Great Library, pic in the Dept of Turnplay thread. We spend all of our 400+ gold putting cities into nice 20 shield multiples to blow out some culture on turn 114. The workers will soon have all the land irrigated and jungle cut, probably done by turn 135 if not sooner, some of them will be added in in the interim The plan is to produce more later in time for rails, if that works?

We go into anarchy after consulting with JB on MSN, out in 2 turns.

What government should we go into after Feudalism? Or should we just stay there? If we get rid of most workers, our unit costs shouldnt be too crazy so Republic might be an option and it will probably keep us afloat monetarily and researchwise what with having to do some research for the BABEs. Can someone calculate what is best for our situation, counting on paying like 150 gpt maintenance?

We are at our most vulnerable now, and urgently need units to be built in ten turns. Agree or disagree? what do we want our defense force to consist of?

Finally, when do we want the contacts for the other teams from the BABEs?

Ooops, that was a fast one. So I guess my drabbling on the wonder in DSOTM got left on the station platform. Oh well, we could maybe do even better switching to sun's (14 turns) and get Leo's with the new contacts. Now that would be a thriller wouldn't it: build a truckload of cheap warriors/spears after whipping cult on 114, then get the contacts w/ dirtbags, then switch for Leo's and upgrade the lot asap.

I think we can still build HG if we want, switching the shields will bring it in just the same, even in anarchy IIRC.

If we have the shields, we'll get it in anarchy.

We really need some military to defend our coastline.

Reading the flood of posts it seems better to let DSOTM go for Leo's alt. Sistines.

I concur on Leo's. The extra culture from the HG will be minimal in effect at best, IMO.

Concerning military, I think pumping out hordes of 20 shield spears ASAP sounds right jolly. I think we'll want to emphasize spears because their upgrade path is way better for our purposes. Throw in a few warriors/MDI for some stomping power, and we're golden. We'll be untouchable for over an age to come.

It'll be like Braveheart at the Battle of Stirling all over again, tauting our superiorly-equipped enemies while they helplessly circle our island (said with a Celtic accent). ;)

I'd love that scenarion, but I'm still curious if we have a chance of getting 1000K before marines or not.

I'd love that scenarion, but I'm still curious if we have a chance of getting 1000K before marines or not.

:eek: You are VERY ambitious. :lol:

:eek: You are VERY ambitious. :lol:

No, seriously. If we're winning this I want us to do it unquestionable...;)

The turn is in, due tonight in about 9 hours. Do we want the contacts? I dont know if they even offered but just to ask the question. We are in anarchy so there is not much to do. Any orders?

Can't think of anything...
Dunno about the contacts. I guess one reason to hold 'em for while is that everyone is expecting the opposite. Let's have them when we can come up with a reason we need them (out of curiousity don't count).

Nothing much happening. We move 6 workers to a hill to road next turn when out of anarchy, and the rest are irrigating still with the slower improvement times of anarchy. We are looking good as far as land development.

Sabre's capital is size 8. No wonders from them this turn.

BABE didnt offer contacts yet.

Segusio is renamed Beach Party and Isca becomes Whip It!. We have two towns riot, Hotel Cali still finishes its temple and becomes content on its own, and the partially rushed library in Woodstock will be complete next turn w/ a worker add in(the partial rush made it unhappy).

The only thing I see to rush is Cariboo on the west coast. There are workers by CBGB and Woodstock to add in next turn, 5 apiece. We really need to start producing more of these guys.

I dont see how we are second in land area still, does that count coast and sea tiles?

I really dont see how we can build military next turn, but the turn after that we can begin. Next turn is another big whipping turn. How many cities do we want on military and how many on workers? Can we get by with just Graceland, Sugar Mountain, Paradise City, and the town NW of Graceland on military with the rest on workers?

Core cities on military after we've finished whippin sounds good to me.

I dont see how we are second in land area still, does that count coast and sea tiles?

We might be second to the Babes since they seem to have settled at least one, and maybe more, one tile islands. They're Ag so I would hope they have thier island built out by now.

Here's a MS/Excel spreadsheet w/ our culture data.

There's an error somewhere but I can't find it. CAII says we have 612 culture but adding up all the cities only gets us to 581. It may have something to do w/ the doubling of culture on our palace.

Anyway, you have to extract this city by city and add it into the workbook.

The first tab is the current culture numbers and the second tab is the current production,

The file extension is changed from .xls to .txt to get it to post here.

JB joined in for a little whipping fun and this is what we came up with:

Graceland-> Temple->Worker
Cariboo- Temple-> Cathedral

The Whipping

Rock Lobsterford-> Cathedral
Paradise City-> T
Ring of Fire-> Cath
CBGB-> Cath
WBTC-> Libe*
Dirty Old Town-> Cath
Nutbush-> T
Woodstock-> Cath
Town called malice-> T
Motor City-> T
Love Shack-> T
Heartbreak Hotel-> Cath
Streets have no Name-> Cath
Beach Party-> T
Guitar Town-> T
Palace on Brine-> T
Townes van Zandt-> T
Smoke on Water-> T

*Done with culture, can build units.

Gracleand is doing a one turn worker. All size 3 cities that need a temple get whipped; this causes double unhappiness but we want to push our date up above turn 250 right?

After all the whipping we are down to 4th in population, and 5th in Productivity! We regain our #1 in family size though!

With the cities getting unhappy, maybe we should up the happy slider a lot and try to get most everything whipped by the birth of Jesus.

It was a kinda slow but interesting turn. All of the culture builds finished and adopted their default suggestions which can be changed whenever. JB suggested we build embassies with babes and Free, so pics attached. We whipped/are building 10 culture this turn:

sunset strip- libe,
whiskeytown- temple,
scarborough fair- temple,
sugar mountain- libe

Not bad for a slow culture turn.

In other news, we have met Team Free. They have a screwed up settler factory, Im thinking Kuningas must not be the turnplayer any longer which is good for us mortals (or they are switching to the FP next turn?). I changed DSOTM to Palace to prevent them seeing the ToA build, it has 410 shields so about 11 more turns until the big 6-0-0. I think Leos is the attraction there but I know some want Sistines.

Looking at the screenshots, everyone else is still building settlers :lol: :lol: :lol:. Heck Free still has all that jungle to cut. Therefore I dont think they are the invasion force BABE was trying to warn us about. I think we will have some time to build up counter forces. JB said they were average to us, so no big threat there. We should watch out for Council however, BABE and Council might be the ones really working together.

BTW, why does everyone have horses (and iron) except for us? And why is BABEs capital better than ours with several hills (and a lux)?

FREE has Theology and Engineering now that I have checked the old turn 116 save and compared it to 117. So our researching Monotheism was pretty darn useless.

Here are some shots from the Victory screen and the Culture screen...

If Free is average to us and the Babes are looking for an alternate target then I think I just found it.

However, I have a nagging feeling that the Babe's told us that the FC-Axis had Engineering and my look show they do not. That doesn't jibe w/ what Cane's saying so I need to recheck my calcs.

Here are some shots from the Victory screen and the Culture screen...

If Free is average to us and the Babes are looking for an alternate target then I think I just found it.

However, I have a nagging feeling that the Babe's told us that the FC-Axis had Engineering and my look show they do not. That doesn't jibe w/ what Cane's saying so I need to recheck my calcs.
They do, open the 116 save, and turn 7 or 8 scientists on and look at Theology and Engineering and compare that to the turn 117 save. The 117's numbers should be lowered from the FREE contact.

We had a nice spike in culture there. :mischief:

But we still have 23% of the world's population with Free having another 23% that means that we are close to top population. I'm sure we ought to be whipping harder than that :)