View Full Version : EU2 AAR: Granada
Till Jan 06, 2007, 10:12 AM Difficulty: Very Hard
Aggression: Normal
Mod: AGCEEP
Some of you might recall my last grasp for glory with Granada. I managed to conquer much of Iberia, but had to take many loans and went bankrupt a number of times. In the end, i gave up, as i couldn't compete with an inflation of 50% and more.
This is the tale of my second attempt. It started many moons ago and only my trusted vizier Olav was informed of its progress. As such, the documentation of Granada's early years under Sultan Tillothy's rule are sketchy and rely mainly on the few letters between Olav and Tillothy, which survived the ages unharmed.
Granada
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/989/smallvintagecitymapni0.jpg
Our proud capital.
Unlike in the regular game, Granada starts as vassal of Castille in AGCEEP. Even more importantly, relations with both Castille and Aragon are good. Still, religious differences remain and what self-respecting ruler would suffer to be a vassal of a heathen?
Not Tillothy, that's for certain!
A messenger is send to Toledo, advising the king that the Emir of Granada bows to no one! A second messenger is ordered to humbly ask the King of Aragon to accept Granada into his alliance. He accepts, thanks to the good relations build up by the foolish Muhammed VIII prior 1419.
The War for Independence
Or rather: War for More Provinces, but that applies to most wars in Granada's history
The third party in Aragon's alliance are the Papal States, a fact that causes much objection among Granada's righteous. But not for long, because as soon as the alliance had been formed, Sultan Tillothy declared war on his former master Castille, forcing Aragon and the Pope to fight on his side!
Castille brought Portugal into the war on her side and soon Christian was fighting Christian. The Sutlan wisely held his troops back, waiting for Castille to expose regions of defenders. Soon it was forced to do so, in order to be able to match Aragon's armies.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6243/warofindedb6.jpg
Granadians engaged in a fierce battle with the infidels
Toledo and Estremadura were occupied. Their mountains made it easy to thwart any attempt of Castille to take them back. Murcia was taken, also. The Sultan was in a hurry to get Castille to surrender regions, as it was within Aragon's power as alliance leader to end the war on their terms.
Castille did agree to a seperate peace, surrendering a few provinces in the process. Historians have not yet reached an agreement on which provinces changed hands.
The Ahead of Schedule War
Time moves fast in Granada, when it comes to 5 year peace treaties
They do agree, however, that Tillothy did not honour the peace agreement and redeclared war almost immediately!
While Castille was spend, Portugal still had most of her armies and the Sultan took care not to engage them with his puny force. Instead, Castillian provinces were once more put under siege. The Castillian king proved stubborn, however, and wouldn't yield any province. Maybe he knew that Tillothy had nothing to match the 50,000 Portuguese soldiers ravaging newly conquered Andalusia.
Eventually, a peace for cash deal was settled. And this time, Granada kept it. For as long as it took to retrain the army, that is! The money was spend on a cavalry army meant to wreck havoc on the Portuguese plains and an infantry army for the hills of Castille.
Götterdämmerung for Castille
Or: The end of an unlikely alliance
War was declared, but this time Aragon and the Papal States bailed out, breaking the alliance with Granada. They had been useful tools, but the Sultan considered Aragon part of Granada's territory, anyway. Tlemec and Morocco were gained as new allies.
The cavalry army swept the floor with the mixed Portuguese troops, especially because they attacked across a river. Portugal was eager for peace and the Sultan accepted. Now he could focus entirely upon Castille!
The war lasted until around 1428 and ended with Castille making major concessions. All the while, Portugal and Aragon were fighting with another. Indeed, they even asked (and received) military access through Granada!
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3889/byzantine2jpgiq3.png
Grim tidings for Castille: Their army has been vanquished!
What followed was a period of stabilization. While Granada was loan free, every dinar had went into the military thus far. Not a single bailiff had been promoted. Once the stability had reached an acceptable level again, once more war was declared on Castille. For the first time thus far, Granada was able to field the larger army. It didn't take long to pry all but the capital province Toledo from Castille. Along with the provinces came a good chunk of money, which was spend on bailiffs.
Five Against Granada
A defensive war, at last!
Things went quiet for a while, until Granada's bad reputation caught up with her in 1437. Portugal, Aragon, Castille, Foix and Britaine declared war! Needless to say, Granada was badly outmatched. The western front was all but exposed and Portugal roamed freely there. In the east, a hardy garrison held out against attacks from Aragon and Foix, using the forest of Cantabria as cover. There were some good news too, however. A rebel uprising in Toledo defeated the Castillian army, putting Castille's single province under rebel control.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7092/stormingantiochfirstcrunu6.jpg
The fortress of Catabria is under constant attack.
In an attempt to force Portugal out of the war, Tillothy ordered for Algarve to be laid under siege. Portugal answered by amassing her troops in Estramdura, which already was part of Greater Granada. Lady Luck was with the Granadians, however, and Algarve fell before Estramadura. Portugal and her ally Castille bailed out of the war, leaving Algarve to Granada!
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2871/reconquista13nn4.jpg
Portugal retreats, having accomplished nothing.
Foix was overpowered and annexed by Tlemenc. This left Aragon as the last major enemy to best. All forces were utilized for that purpose. It proved to be of tremendous advantage that Granada enjoyed a superior cavalry, which chased Aragons infantry heavy armier through their own homeland, routing them again and again!
After a long series of battles, Aragon was exhausted and had to watch how province after province fell to sieges. Even though the Aragonese king proved stubborn, he found himself forced to make a peace offer, in the end:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7208/peacearagonfs3.jpg
A just compensation for the uncalled for aggression against Granada!
Undisputed hegemony
Through Machiavellian means!
Just as the war with the last of the 5 ended, the peace treaty with the first two, Protugal and Castille, expired. It was time to settle the score once for all! Neither Castille nor Portugal could offer much resistance, having been reduced to just one province each. Both were invaded, besieged, conquered and annexed!
This send Granada's reputation into new depths, but it was surely worth it!
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4622/capitulationpaintingor5.jpg
The Surrender of Castille and Portugal.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/28/badboybc6.jpg
Living on the edge!
Thus ended the first phase of expansion. Granada was too close to the limit to dare further wars. Already many wimpy Muslim nations were turning away instead of congratulating the Sultan to his successes! Instead, Granada would concentrate on her economy and research for a while, always wary for acts of aggressions from Aragon and France.
Aragon still had some holdings in southern Italy and was allied with many of the myriad of nations there. France had no powerful ally, but needed none! Her armies left the Sultan in awe. A confrontation would be inevitable, as France had claims on two of Granada's provinces. Granada was not looking forward to it...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4849/eu2200612161empire65146lq6.jpg
The current situation. Bearn belongs to an ally
Feedback and suggestions are welcome. I would be especially interested if friendly relations with a nation of different faith are possible. Some sort of cooperation with England against France would make the future a look a lot less threatening!
Kan' Sharuminar Jan 06, 2007, 10:15 AM :goodjob: Great start Till.
I'm no real expert on EU2 compared to some other members here, but I shall be looking forward to reading what the future holds for Granada :)
Hitti-Litti Jan 06, 2007, 10:36 AM That's an absolutely amazing start. Granada is a hard nation to play, you need to kill your liege to conquer Iberia. Well, your BB is also huge. I can't imagine what America will look like. No Spaniards in America. No Portuguese in Brazil.
Wow.
Maniacal Jan 06, 2007, 01:16 PM I can't imagine what America will look like. No Spaniards in America. No Portuguese in Brazil.
Wow.
Pkay, I'm watching this just to find out!
Hitti-Litti Jan 06, 2007, 03:02 PM Suggestion: Send gifts to Burgundy! It's strong, and maybe Austria won't gain it's lands, as normally Spain should get Burgundian lands.
Olav Jan 06, 2007, 04:03 PM Great to see the AAR for this game, Till! Nice choice of pics, by the way!
Be careful not to step over the BB-threshold! Nasty things could happen if you do.
Hitti-Litti Jan 07, 2007, 04:48 AM What is your land forces support limit? You could build a massive army with those rich provinces. Though I think you don't have any grain.
Till Jan 07, 2007, 12:20 PM Thanks guys! :D
My support limit is around 75,000. More than i ever needed, even though that might change with France having a permanent casus belli. I don't really have any money to spare, and i am not sure if Burgundy would appreciate it, anyway. Do you think they could be lured into fighting France somehow?
Olav Jan 07, 2007, 02:33 PM Are you still in an alliance with Tlemencen and Morocco? If so, are they valuable alliance members? If they gave you much help in the wars in Iberia, I suggest you keep good relations with them as long as possible. Hitti-Litti: As for Burgundy, won't they be inherited by either Austria or France?
What are your future plans for Granada now, Till?
Till Jan 07, 2007, 02:52 PM Are you still in an alliance with Tlemencen and Morocco? If so, are they valuable alliance members? If they gave you much help in the wars in Iberia, I suggest you keep good relations with them as long as possible. Hitti-Litti: As for Burgundy, won't they be inherited by either Austria or France?
What are your future plans for Granada now, Till?
The alliance consists of Tlemencen, Morocco and Tunesia (and Granada). Tlemencen being the leader. Then it gets rather complicated. I think Tlemencen is a vassal of Tunesia, and Tunesia is a vassal of Morocco. Previously, i was under the impression that such a hierarchy was impossible, so maybe i am misremembering.
They have been useful in a blind chicken sort of way. Nine times of ten they just wandered around aimlessly, but every once in a while they actually enter a battle. Their land also provide additional targets for my enemies, which is always a plus. The relations are not too good, however. Barely positive. Not sure why, maybe the Bad Boy Rating.
I'd love to keep waging war and try to cripple France so much that she'll no longer be a threat, but i reckon that's impossible with my current Bad Boy Rating. The next years will likely be spend on promoting bailiffs and, if there is money to spare, improving relations with my North African allies.
Hitti-Litti Jan 08, 2007, 09:39 AM I think Tlemencen is a vassal of Tunesia, and Tunesia is a vassal of Morocco. Previously, i was under the impression that such a hierarchy was impossible, so maybe i am misremembering.
That is possible, and in some games it happens. Once I saw Wallachia being vassal of Hungary and Hungary being vassal of Otto.
Then it gets weird when events make Bohemia a vassal of Austria, when some time ago rich Bohemia had vassalized Austria. Then they're both each others lieges!
Formula51 Jan 08, 2007, 08:06 PM It certainly is possible, just AI vassalizations conflicting with event-driven ones.
Since Gascogne is not same-culture/religion, try releasing it to shed some BB. Rinse and repeat with Bearn (it has basque, right?). AFAIK, these vassals should be muslim, so you can feed them cash to see if they will convert the provs for you (though I wouldn't count on it.)
Also, if allying with a christian country is your goal, be prepared to spend lots of cash keeping relations high. For this, I would suggest Austria or England (whichever is stronger). Also try to get the OE in your camp, since they are the only other muslim power worth noting.
An excellent idea is to expand southwards through DAing the north african nations (Morocco, Al Djazair, etc., etc.). Once you are into west africa, it is all muslims/pagans, which you can then conquer, and you also get the MP through the land connection at tangiers. Try to conquer the entire african continent!
Hitti-Litti Jan 09, 2007, 11:30 AM Yes! Unite the Muslim world!
That would be absolutely great with Granada.
Till Jan 09, 2007, 11:49 AM Thanks for the input! Gascogne shall indeed become Granada's first vassal. Bearn belongs to Tlemencen and is thus outside my influence. This leaves only one province, Roussilion, which i need to defend against France!
The next years will likely consist of a cooling-off period in order to get some BadBoy leeway again. Then there will be time for another land grab...
All in the next update! :D
Raisin Bran Jan 11, 2007, 08:13 AM Suscription post .... good job Till !
at first I tought that was a Canada AAR :lol:
Hitti-Litti Jan 11, 2007, 08:37 AM That would be cool. You can play as Canada in Victoria so it's possible. And even more tempting for Raisin Bran, you can give independence to Quebec in EU2!
Kan' Sharuminar Jan 11, 2007, 09:09 AM Update, uuuupdaaaate! :D
Raisin Bran Jan 11, 2007, 09:32 AM That would be cool. You can play as Canada in Victoria so it's possible. And even more tempting for Raisin Bran, you can give independence to Quebec in EU2!
Nice Idea ..... I dont own EU2. Ill go look for a mode for HoI2 that would have Quebec as independant.
Formula51 Jan 11, 2007, 10:21 AM Peh, bloody Frenchies and their independence.
:D
Till Jan 11, 2007, 12:39 PM Bringing dissonance into the Concert of Powers
Granada's rise to power had greatly upset the Christian realm. France wasn't at all comfortable with such a military success and powerful neighbour. Given that they had legitimate claims to both Gascogne and Roussillion, it was only a matter of time before King Charles VII would try what Castille and Portugal had failed to achieve:
Reconquista!
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5751/charlesviixxlt8.jpg
Charles VII, called: The Victorious.
Would he, after freeing much of France from the English,
also manage to win back Iberia for Christianity?
His mother in law, Yolande of Aragon, never tired to remind him and king Alfonso V of Aragon that "Granada delenda est". Alfonso and Charles didn't trust one another, however, and plotted their moves without coordination.
Meanwhile in Granada...
Sultan Tillothy was aggrieved by spy reports about his Muslim allies. His informers advised that he was looked upon with a mixture of suspicion and envy in almost every court from Africa's Atlantic coast to the kindoms surrounding the Persian Gulf.
There was even talk about attacking Granada before it could lay her hands on North Africa! Clearly, the next years would have to be used to lull these nations into a feeling of safety again.
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/273/07ccih1.jpg
Sultan Tillothy, pondering on Granada's future.
It was decided to maintain forces on a wartime level, but restrain from undertaking any acts of aggression, save for purely defensive purposes.
Part of Granada's treasury was classified as reserve, in case war breaks out, the rest was used to promote bailiffs.
Tillothy was convinced that it was impossible to hold both, Gascogne and Roussillion, in the event of a war with France. Fortunately for him, it was possible to release Gascogne into vassalage. He did so under the condition that Granada would receive her share of the new realm's income.
Due to conflicting cultures and religion, the income used to be a pittance. After the new realm had been created, Gascogne's income almost doubled.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/408/auchvieuxdoccj5.jpg
Gascogne with her most famous child, D'Artagnan.
The French and Aragonese wars
It's history repeating!
It wasn't long until Aragon's patience ran out and king Alfonso V declared war. Aragon itself was weak, but it's Italian allies were many and amounted to a threat. Tillothy responded by sending Granada's cavalry to Catalonia, smashing Aragon's army into pieces. When will they learn to build cavalry? Hopefully never!
Then it was time to emply the navy. Thanks to Portugal's capitulation, Granada was in possession of some twenty war vessels. Each of them was worth a year of tax revenues and the Sultan had often wished that he could sell them. Now there was finally a use for them!
Any invasion force would have to come via see, so the fleet was send patrolling the Mediterranean coast. Sea battle followed sea battle, with mixed and suprising results. While Granda's fleet rarely lost ships, it was often forced to retreat, even when it had overwhelming numbers. At one point, two ships from Tuscany, being ten times outnumbered, chased away the entire fleet!
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1994/navalbattleoflarochellebo4.jpg
Tuscany ships forcing Granada's navy into a shameful retreat
Previously, The Sultan was known for his disdain of all things naval, summed up by the quote "Ships don't win me provinces!". Now it dawned to him that he might have been in the wrong and it would be wise to reconsider.
But while the navy failed to demolish the Allied navies, it succeeded, for the most part, in preventing enemy landings. These were far and between, usually to small to start an effective siege. The Italian warlords apparently liked Catalonia and never moved their invasion forces any further, which made them easy to deal with.
All the while, Granada's army was busy thwarthing rebellion after rebellion. The Sultan cursed his luck for getting so many bad events. Still, once Catalonia fell to a siege, Aragon came begging for peace.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/496/eu22006121713490150dg6.jpg
This should about cover our war expenses!
While the Sultan was highly tempted to reject and mount an invasion of Italy, his sense of realism made him agree. For a good reason, too, as France declared war almost immediately afterwards!
The French commander entered Roussillion at the head of the biggest army ever recorded in Granadian history! Almost sixtythousand men, lusting for murder and loot!
Roussillion, never a rich province, couldn't support so many invaders and attrition was horrendous. Maybe this was the reason why king Charles VII began to shuffle troops in and out. Or maybe they were neeeded for another war elsewhere. It didn't matter to Tillothy. He had 20,000 riders waiting in Gerona. Waiting for the number of besiegers to fall to a manageable level.
Once they arrived there, he struck! The cavalry engaged the weakened French forces in Roussillion and beat them after a fierce battle. Losses were high, but the siege was lifted! The Granadian's withdrew right away, making no prisoners. New troops were trained to replace the fallen, while Granada waited for France to enter Roussillion again.
But Charles had enough for now.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2170/eu22006121717424515ly8.jpg
The long awaited peace offer!
Granada accepted. Tillothy was thunderstruck at the incompetence of the French generals. He knew now that, with a bit of luck and good timing, France could be held at bay.
Two peaceful years followed, then Aragon and her allies declared war again. The war went exactly like the last confrontation between Granada and them and it ended with a peace agreement very much like last time.
It came as little suprise, when France tried her luck again, just after hostilities with Aragon ended. This time, less soldiers were send by Charles, but still enough to suffer attrition. And again the French generals failed to stayed focused, moving troops in and out. At one point they even lifted the siege themselves!
The war ended like the last one: A well timed attack by Granada, a period of waiting, then a peace deal much like the last one.
It now is 1471 and the third war with Aragon after 1452 has ended. Nothing unexpected happened during it and the Sultan began to develop an appreciation for the regular income bonus, gained from the peace treaty. It is now the time of the third war with France. For the first time, it looks like Rousillion may fall to a siege. But the real difference is, that this time Tlemcen dishonoured the very alliance she was leader of! Relations fell to -37 in the aftermath and now Morocco is in command of the alliance.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5339/ejhjhu22007011119175227em3.jpg
The current situation in Western Europe
Granada's Bad Boy is at 26/38 and i am beginning to think about expansion again. Relations with Tunesia and Morocco are both well over +100, so maybe it is time to work towards Vassalization. Since Tunesia is a vassal of Morocco, i am not sure if this is even possible, however. Do i need to be head of an alliance to make the other members vassals?
As you can see, stability is at 0. Granada has a lot of bad events and a peak into the event file reveals that it will stay this way until the 1490s.
Random events were not too great, either, which keeps me struggling to mantain a stability rating above 0. Research suffers from that and my neighbours are already ahead in most techs.
Most provinces have bailiffs now, but most money is needed in order to replace troops.
Hitti-Litti Jan 11, 2007, 12:58 PM Nicely going, Till!
You can vassalize Morocco, even if you're not the leader of the alliance.
After destroying Roussillon-conquerers and making peace with France, you could advance to Aragon's Italian allies. Their provinces are rich.
Olav Jan 11, 2007, 01:42 PM Great to see you managed to hold off the French!
The sea battles you were losing - is your navy full of warships (and not galleys)? And do you have any maps over western Africa? Some colonization there could be an alternative to military expansion (when the required funds and settlers come in, that is).
By the way, Sultan Tillothy looks very much like Mehmed II! :D
Till Jan 11, 2007, 02:01 PM I have about 20 warships, 8 galleons and 4 transport ships, i think. The actual number might vary, but the bulk of the fleet are warships. I have some maps of western and central Africa. Morocco has already claimed much of the west, though. And i don't think i have any settlers to begin with! Will check that later, though.
Mehmed II? Never heard of the guy! Surely an imposter! :mischief:
It's incredibly hard to find portraits, or indeed any non architectural pictures of Al Andalus and its rulers.
Dell19 Jan 12, 2007, 01:18 PM I've found that nations who have a vassal themselves are very unlikely to accept to become vassals of a third nation, unless forced to.
Kan' Sharuminar Jan 12, 2007, 03:21 PM Good work Till :thumbsup:
Very good expansion, Europe looks suitably split apart compared to your empire - ripe for the taking, I'd say. Scotland seems to be surviving :mischief:
Till Mar 11, 2007, 10:08 AM 1471-1483: Europe's Unwanted Child
The story picks up, after a longish break for commercials, in 1471. Aragon had just taken a beating and agreed to a peace treaty, in which it promised to cover for some of Granada's expenses.
France had a huge, technological advanced, army in Rousillion and was trying to take the province by siege. The Sultan was very annoyed and bored by this, as wars with both nations come up unfailingly, once the last peace treaty expired. Just like in the past, Granada's army waited in Gerona, waited for France to give her an opening to liberate Rousillion.
This time, the opening didn't come fast enough, and the province fell for the first time. However, France was entangled in a war with England and couldn't press on with full strength. A couple of battles (with mixed outcome) later, Rousillion was in Granada's possession again. No more French troops were on Iberian soil.
This was fortunate, as enemies from within took it upon themselves to keep the army occupied:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2018/eu22007031017241567mn5.jpg
"Rebellion in a mountainious region." translated to "AAAARGH!" in Arabic.
Attempts to lift the siege resulted in heavy casulties, and eventually the Sultan had to accept that he would just have to wait until the rebels moved to a region more suitable for battle. All the while, the war with France was still on, even though it had mostly turned phoney. France had her hands full to get the English out of Provence, and Granada had no interest what to ever to get into the way of the formidable French armies. In 1473, the long awaited peace offer finally arrived:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/284/eu22007031017312382dl5.jpg
Exactly the same as the last 4, i believe.
To make 1473 an even better year, the rebels were killed in Andalusia and a heir to the crown resulted in +1 stability. The years until 1476 were spend with the promotion of bailiffs. By 1476, every province had one - even the Azores. In the same year, rebels felt like stirring up trouble again, but the Sultan struck lucky, as the nitwits picked Aragon as base, where the army was stationed!
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3172/eu22007031022304206ec6.jpg
One of the shortest revolts in Granadian history.
In 1477, slightly behind schedule, Aragon and her allies declared war again. Catalonia was invaded and layed under siege with little resistance. Meanwhile, the ex-Portuguese now Granadian, navy patrolled the coast and engaged some of Aragon's Italian allies. With very mixed success. Given that no fleet approached the size of Granada's (19 warships), complete victory was expected in every battle. But not so! More than once 4 Italian galleys send off the entire fleet! This made the Sultan very worried about falling behind in naval technology... (Italians are at level 3-4, i am at level 2).
But not only Aragon was looking for action, for the first time and utterly unprovoked, Milan declared war as well! The wars dragged out until 1779, when Aragon made peace, parting with 102 gold. There hadn't been much actual fighting with Milan besides sea battles, but when they offered peace in 1480, demanding a tribute of 23 gold, i took it. The bastards had sunked a couple of my expensive warships and i didn't want to lose any more.
Things cooled down again, until Granada hit a streak of horrible events in the period from 1481-3:
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7358/eu22007031023004806iv1.jpg
Andalusia is suitable for cavalry and i was puting research into stability anyway. Could Will be worse.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/2576/eu22007031023011373xw3.jpg
Wah...arghhh!
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9591/eu22007031023051592uf7.jpg
Nooo, not Granada again! Rebels in mountains are such a pain in the (/%&(!
The Sultan hasen't yet cleared up all these misfortunes, but Granada's army has suffered more through them, then through the last few wars. Due to the stability loss, income is low as well. Only thing missing to complete the picture, is a declaration of war by France.
On the brightside, i think i reached the end of Granada's event file, which means no more planned unpleasantnesses!
Edit:
A curious note on my alliance:
The leader is Tlemenc, which is a vassal of Tunesia, which is a vassal of Morocco!
Olav Mar 11, 2007, 10:48 AM Great update :goodjob:! Good to see the AAR continued :).
All the rebel-events are sure a pain. Hopefully, as you said, you won't get those any more!
If you have many problems with revolts due to religion (Heretics-events), going narrowminded could help you. The drawback is more expensive techs.
Where do you plan to expand next?
Kan' Sharuminar Mar 11, 2007, 10:54 AM Glad to see you decided to keep this up.
Vassalise Morocco to continue the lineage ;)
Till Mar 11, 2007, 11:37 AM I'm already fully narrowminded, as i am hoping for conversion events to up my income. Compared to the provinces in your AAR, i am making a pittance. Rousillion actually only brings in 9 Gold or so and is hardly worth keeping, from an economic perspective.
I actually thought i had taken a screenshot of my domestic settings, but it was nowhere to be found, when i wrote the report.
BB-Rating is around 24 now, so it is still a bit early to expand. I'd rather not get "suprise" DOWs by France, when my army is busy elsewhere! The most profitable direction of expansion would probably be North Africa, but that would mean killing my alliance. I am not sure if i can actually diplo annex Morocco without being leader of the alliance. Is that possible?
The alternative would be to wipe out Aragon, now called Spain. Their remaining Iberian province is a breeze to take, but in order to annex it, i'd have to take a couple of Mediterranean islands as well. This path would mean military annexation, which would be BB- heavy. I'd love to get rid of Spain for good, but spending another 20-30 getting pounded by France, without being allowed to fight back, takes a little from the thrill... ;)
Olav Mar 11, 2007, 01:23 PM A good thing with Rousillion in your case is the strategic good location. It looks like France have major problems getting past that province! So it could be wise to keep it.
You can diploannex without being the alliance leader. But you can't vassalize (I think) Morocco now since they got vassals themselves, and thereby you can't diploannex them :(. So the best alternative to get their provinces is... war! ;)
The only option to take out Spain is forceannexing, since diploannexing doesn't work (unsure here too) with nations with other religion than yours.
Hitti-Litti Mar 11, 2007, 02:51 PM Yeah, diplo-annex doesn't work without a royal marriage. :(
plarq Mar 20, 2007, 04:04 AM No, diplo-annex doesn't require a royal marriage.
Diplo-vassalization requires it.
Hitti-Litti Mar 20, 2007, 10:44 AM Ah, I knew that vassalization needs, thought that annexing needs the same conditions.
Kan' Sharuminar Mar 20, 2007, 11:37 AM Yeah, I didn't realise that too until a recent game. Got the vassalization through war, then realised it was possible to diplo-annex after 10 years (?), during which time I spent making them like me. Worked a treat :)
Duke Wellington Mar 28, 2007, 08:08 PM A good AAR you have here Till. I'm impressed by the empire you've acquired too, Granada is a one of my favourite nations to play.
Till Mar 21, 2008, 12:16 PM Consolidation after hibernation
I promised not to let this one die!
Introduction:
It was October in the year 1483 of the prophet Isa. The Emirate of Granada had enjoyed a peaceful year thus far. By its own standards, that is! For not all was well in the realm. Rebels battered against the red walls of the Alhambra and the mysterious African kingdoms of Songhai, Ashanti, and Benin had declared war on Granada. To the common man these names meant nothing, and nobody knew what power or intentions these kingdoms had.
Known, however, was the strength of Granada's main enemies: France and accursed Spain. Like a cancer, France had rapidly grown to a size rivalling Granada's. But where the Iberians strength was handicapped by religious and cultural differences within the realm, France was largely homogeneous. This gave France a stronger, better equipped, military, and the economic strength to fuel it. Should the hostility between the two countries escalate to war, Granada would be in dire straits indeed.
In contrast, Spain was a cripple which stubbornly refused to die. Her power in Iberia was shattered, but Catelonia was still hers. Only by conquering all of Spain's scattered holdings would the Sultan be able to finally complete the Muslim conquest of Iberia. Thus far, his - and his predecessors' - hands had been full with defending what he had. There was no spare strength left to send to battle far away from the heartland.
The situation in numbers:
Bad Boy rating: 24,1
Stability: -2
Relations:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6807/incomeoct1483jc5.png
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5695/landforcesoct1483ox3.png
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8567/navalforcesoct1483mt5.png
Military:
* 11 warships in the Mediterranean Sea.
* 8,000 cavalry in Iberia.
* 1,500 cavalry on the Azores.
* 3,000 cavalry on the Baleares.
Military Alliance with: Morocco
Vassals: Guyenne
Main enemies:
Spain
Allied with Papal States, Brittany, Naples, Tuscany, and Sienna.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4682/spainoct1483vh7.png
France
Allied with Bourbonnais (also a vassal), Mainz, Mantua, Berg, Modena. No casus belli against us at the moment.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6789/franceoct1483ra3.png
Timeline:
Luck had not been with Granada lately. The last emir's love scandal and capture by the infidels had made Granada look weak and ridiculous. Some Granadians expressed their outrage by revolting and laying siege to the core province Granada.
Given Granada's rocky nature, rooting them out out would prove difficult and costly. The Emir was at loathe to sacrifice any more men than necessary, and thus decided to wait until the rebels came out of the mountains. They wouldn't come out until the province was completely in their hands, of course, but temporal loss of the capital seemed preferable to losing thousands of expensive cavalrymen.
Granada fell in June 1484. This easy victory inflated the self confidence of the rebels, and they marched on to neighbouring Andalusia. When their host had assembled on the province's plains, the Emir's army descended upon them. None of the rebels survived, while losses on Granada's side were marginal.
But just when was ready to siege defenceless Granada, news came in from the western end of the empire:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7954/conversionjune1484gc1.png
Hah! Roussilion a Muslim province! How that must irk the French infidels!
But what to do now? Win Granada back, or crush the rebels in Roussillion? Rebels in the Alhambra were a national disgrace, but smoking them out would take time. Maybe long enough for Roussillion to fall. A frightening scenario, given that France was desperately looking for an excuse to annex it.
It was decided to crush the rebels first, and deal with Granada later. The rebel scum proved to be ruthless fighters, quite capable of dealing death to Granada's cavalry. In the end, however, they all lay slain and the emir was free to concentrate on winning his capital back. 2000 new horsemen were ordered to replace the losses and the siege of Granada began in January 1485. In order to be able to storm castles in the future, training began for 3000 would be men at arms.
But just when it seemed like the emir was finally getting a handle on the situation, fate struck again. It struck in the form of a declaration of war by Spain! Before the emir could react, Spain's ally Naples had already began to siege Roussillon. Spain moved her host to Gerona and began a siege. Again the sultan was faced with a choice between winning his capital back, or meeting hostile forces on the field.
This time, he opted to finish the siege first. By January 1486, Granada was under Granadian control again. The price for this success was the loss of Gerona to Spain. Rather than freeing them right away, it was decided to conquer Catalonia fist. Meanwhile Granada's navy had been involved in fierce battles with Spain's Italian allies. Their ships were more advanced than Granada's which often gave them victory. Eventually Naples succeeded in landing troops on the Baleares. Not enough for a siege, however, thanks to the determined opposition of the island's defenders.
In October 1487 Catalonia fell, and the army moved on to liberate Gerona. The Spanish troops there were easily defeated thanks to a superior number of cavalry. By September 1488, Gerona was liberated. The host moved on to Roussillon, from which Naples had withdrawn.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6959/abdicatesjan1489fo1.png
A blessing or a curse?
The next year started with a shock, when the emir abdicated! He explained the reason for his baffling decision were a "string of defeats at the hand" of the Spanish monarch. Nobody could quite imagine what he meant with that, given that the war had went acceptable, and the only major defeats were inflicted by Naples' navy. (I think this was the last Granada specific event. What a relief!)
With the new emir came increased stability, which he promptly used to give his subjects more rights. It was bad enough that Granada's armed forces had to fight with obsolete equipment and tactics - they shouldn't also have to suffer a morale penalty for being serfs. The year ended with the re-capture of Roussillon. Finally all provinces were under Granadian control again!
Well, the Baleares were still ravished by plunderers from Naples. It took until July 1490 to root them out. Spain would hear nothing about peace talks, so the emir hatched a daring plot:
For the first time in the nation's history, Granadian soldiers were to take the battle to Spain's allies. 8,000 cavalrymen embarked and were shipped to Siena in Italy. Siena was poorly defended and the local garrison was quickly dealt with. The Granadian general found Italy in chaos, with England and France fighting against Italian factions, and Italian factions fighting among themselves.
After looting Siena, they went on to Rome. The Eternal City was better defended, but they still had to yield in the end. While the army wasn't strong enough to siege Rome, it freely plundered the province!
Over the next couple of years, the Granadian expedition force defeated countless Spanish-Italian armies. This took a toll on them as well, however, and by 1493 only some 3,000 were left. But Spain was now finally ready for peace:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9012/peaceofferjuly1493sr7.png
Peace at last!
The emir accepted without a second thought. While he didn't doubt that Spain would attack again as soon as the trunce ended, he had a feeling that Granada's internal problems were finally at an end. Granada would be stronger in five years, while Spain's power would continue to stagnate.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2658/mapjuly1493iv4.png
The current balance of power.
The situation in numbers:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8003/policiesjuly1493yh9.png
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2727/comparisionchartjuly149lo8.png
Bad Boy score: 22,7
Stability: 1
Treasury: 104
Research:
Land -> Late Medieval 3. Due in 1495
Naval -> Late Medieval 3. Due in 1495
Trade -> Late Renaissance 3. Due in 1661
Infrastructure -> Early Baroque 4. Due in 1804
Where to go next?
Assuming France continues to leaves us be, we may be able to something beyond mere survival. The following options occurred to me:
Option 1: Tripolis
Tripolis is an independent one city state. Relations are +70 at the moment, and Tripolis is member of no alliance. With some bribery, we may be able to lure them in, setting them on the path to vassalage.
Advantage: Next to no military risk. Tripolis is a Muslim nation.
Disadvantage: Costly bribes with no guaranteed payoff. The Tripolis itself has little strategic relevance that i can see, and it would be hard to defend. Income is low.
Option 2:Tlemcen
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8303/tlemcenjuly1493hb8.png
Tlemcen is a former ally, then a former vassal of our ally, and now independent. We could either attempt to win them back, or try to crush them. They currently hold one province in Iberia (Bearn), which has Medium Income. It shouldn't be hard to capture. Northern Africa is the natural choice of future expansion, since our income from there wouldn't be slashes by religious and cultural differences.
Problems:
* We have Military Access with them. Cancelling it would cost us stability.
* Further upping our Bad Boy score would risk incurring the wrath of France.
* We only have a time frame of about 5 years before the treaty with Spain runs out and they will declare war again.
Option 3: Spain
They will never give up. While Spain is no threat on her own, she has powerful allies. Namely, the Papal States and Naples. Both can rise impressive armies which would cause a serious headache, if they managed to transport them to Iberia.
So we either have to wait for Spain's alliance to fall apart, or we have to take them out. This would mean at least one amphibious assault onto a well defended rocky island (Sardinia). I have never done this and would welcome advise.
Option 4: Granada
All provinces save the Baleares have bailiffs, but we could invest into speeding up research. Or save money to pay back loans. We currently have two, one due in 1494 and one in 1495. If we cut spending now, we might be able to pay back the '95 one.
Option 5:
Something i haven't thought of.
Feel free to give input on the best course of action and help shape the future of Granada and Europe!
Hitti-Litti Mar 21, 2008, 12:35 PM Nice AAR update, Till. :)
Option 4 would be my choice. After paying your loans back, I see three options.
1) Wait until Spanish explorers discover America, then conquer Spain and colonize America. :D
2) Wait until some big war breaks out in Europe and take what is rightfully yours.
3) Conquer Genoa! It has a CoT, if you could get Morocco conquer Corsica you could take Genoa.
Kan' Sharuminar Mar 21, 2008, 05:34 PM Dare to return to battle on the AAR front, eh Till?
Epic update, I'll have to read from the beginning again to catch up.
D'Artagnan59 Mar 21, 2008, 08:00 PM Hah!
Please work me into the story as king of Gascogne. Since my name, well, is D'Artagnan59.
Olav Mar 25, 2008, 02:49 AM Great to see this back, Till, and a very good update too. :) I agree with Hitti - focus on your own realm until you have paid your loans back. If you struggle with low income, you could get more centralized, as this increases your income somewhat.
Spain having their capital in Catalonia is both a blessing and a curse. If they manage to explore America, you can easily get their maps by capturing their capital. On the other side, you will have a very hard time getting the province. If you don't think it's too gamey, you could edit the save file, and move their capital to Sicily or somewhere else.
Option 2 could also be interesting. I suggest get friendly with them, and bring them back to your alliance. It's so much easier than fighting them, and you don't get any more BB.
Kan' Sharuminar Mar 26, 2008, 11:41 AM I would wait until Spain's alliance falls apart, so option 3 is out. I think a brief period of peace is in order for brave Granada, so that would put out option 2 as well, particularly if it threatens France.
A mix of options 1 and 4 seem in order, with emphasis on repaying the debt and preparing Granada for an inevitable future war.
Till Mar 27, 2008, 07:16 AM Alright, i'll focus on the economy then, provided fate lets me. One of the loans has been around since almost the start of the game, i think. It'll feel odd to erase it. I think i'll name it Kan, just to make it easier... ;)
If i can, i'll try to work you into the story as well, D'Artagnan, but Gascoigne hasn't really been in the centre of world affairs for a while. Relations drop a steady pace, though, and they eventually might decide to break lose. That would go some way to get them attention...
Getting Spain's maps is nice, but i hadn't really planned on colonizing America. Being Sunni Muslim leaves one a little short staffed in the colonist department! But we'll see.
Any advise on how to take Sardinia? All other Spanish provinces look conquerable, but Sardinia is rocky and usually defended by some 20 thousand men. Not to mention that the Spanish fleet likes to hang out in its vicinity.
Kan' Sharuminar Mar 29, 2008, 06:16 PM One of the loans has been around since almost the start of the game, i think. It'll feel odd to erase it. I think i'll name it Kan, just to make it easier...
...If i can, i'll try to work you into the story as well, D'Artagnan,
If you're going to work posters into the story, and need incentives to keep playing at your best, then I humbly request I be named King of France. You need a worthy adversary :evil:
IronMan2055 Mar 31, 2008, 06:45 PM If we're calling spots, I'll be the bloody pope, and I declare crusade on you heritics. Kan, you may commence firing cows at will.
Till Apr 05, 2008, 07:10 AM It is now 1504. An decade has passed since the last entry of this chronicle and, in truth, not much worth reporting has happened. The years have been spend with amassing money and extending the diplomatic network. Only once did the army see action, when it was ordered to finally put down the natives, who had taken control of the Canary Islands. This venture succeeded, and the first Granadian colonists were send there to boost the population. Once the colony turns into a city, it will be the only accessible port on the west coast of Africa, giving it some potential strategic significance.
Granada now is loan free and has almost 1000 gold pieces in her treasury. Enough to wage a war, build a manufactury, or attempt some conversions.
The warmongers argued that Granada's enemies are getting further and further ahead in technology. Without crippling them in some way, battles will soon become horrifyingly costly. King Kan of France has access to almost twice as much income as Emir Tillothy, and is part of a more inventive culture. Spain and her allies, chiefly among them the Papal States under Vir Ferreus MMLV, were a tempting target, even without a casus belli. Better to attack them now, the warmongers argued, than to wait until 1509 when their alliance expired, and they might ally with France!
Another option would be Genua. Brought into play by sheik Hitti, it is a weak nation with no real ally, but a trade centre. The trade centre would likely pay for the cost of holding it, and Genua's second province, Corsica, would be an excellent base of operations against the Spain-Italy alliance.
The warmongers' opponents were split into two camps. One argued for refineries, the other for conversions. The supporters of refineries (well, one refinery), reasoned that investing into one would speed up research, helping Granada to keep pace with her more advanced neighbors, as well as increase income. Surely preferable over spending the money on war, which would bring in provinces of little value due to reduced income by cultural and religious differences.
The supporters of conversions agreed with the latter camp on their opposition against war, but suggested to spend the money in turning more provinces to the true faith. This would increase their income by 30%, and reduce stability costs. Of course, conversions were not certain to succeed. With the current, barely adequate, monarch odds topped at around 43%. For the economic powerhouses, odds were between 20 and 30%.
(This isn't much of an update, i admit, but this felt like a good point to stop. The real update will likely come next week, when i have more time. Until then you have time to cast your weight behind the doves or hawks. ;))
Olav Apr 05, 2008, 07:37 AM Sounds like the years of peace have benefited Granada alot - 1000 ducats in the treasury is not bad!
I don't think you have much to gain from a war against France and/or the Italians and Spain, so I suggest using the money on either a refinery or conversions. I would have sent missionaries to the provinces with highest odds and lowest cost, and hoping the more difficult ones would be converted by events. However, if you feel that you have much to gain through trade, go for the refinery. :)
Hitti-Litti Apr 05, 2008, 08:51 AM I suggest that you build a refinery and then get ready for a war. Reformation will start soon, and that will most likely cause some wars in Europe. If France gets involved, you know what to do: build a mosque in Paris.
Kan' Sharuminar Apr 05, 2008, 07:00 PM King Kan of France has access to almost twice as much income as Emir Tillothy, and is part of a more inventive culture. Spain and her allies, chiefly among them the Papal States under Vir Ferreus MMLV, were a tempting target, even without a casus belli. Better to attack them now, the warmongers argued, than to wait until 1509 when their alliance expired, and they might ally with France!
:love:
(This isn't much of an update, i admit, but this felt like a good point to stop. The real update will likely come next week, when i have more time. Until then you have time to cast your weight behind the doves or hawks. ;))
You seem to be at your best when at war, so most certainly that. At worst you get destroyed and, well, that works for me too!
D'Artagnan59 Apr 05, 2008, 08:34 PM In case you forgot, I'm the leader of Gascogne.
Till Apr 12, 2008, 12:12 PM No rest for the faithful
After some deliberation, it was decided not to build the refinery. it simply would be too expensive and would take too long to pay for itself. The trade bonus would have been nice, but in truth, there was little hope of competing against the infidel traders - with it or without. So it was decided to try convert some provinces to the true faith. Missionaries were dispatched to Aragon, Asturias and Murcia. Almost immediately afterwards, the current Emir died and was replaced by a much more competent one. Future missions would have a higher chance of success, but the current conversion attempts wouldn't be influenced.
But instead of spending more money on conversions, emir Tillothy the ?th worked on repairing Granada's alliance. Within a short time, Tlemcen and Tripolis joined it. Gascogne, under D'Artagnan, rejected multiple offers, putting a strain on relations and casting doubt over the future of its status as vassal.
Then, in the last days of 1505, news reached Granada that Tripolis had been attacked Spain, the Papal States, Brittany, and Naples! needless to say, Granada was all too glad to assist her new ally..
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4779/1506afamiliarsightos8.png
A familiar sight.
Catalonia had been left undefended, so the siege could commence with no delay. With nobody for the army to fight, it was up to the navy to draw the first blood. The eleven warships disembarked from The Baleares with orders to protect the coast. They utterly failed. Badly and repeatedly. Even two Spanish ships were enough to rout them, nevermind larger forces. They were chased back and forth across the Mediterranean Sea, before they finally found refuge in some North African port. Miraculously, only two ships had been lost. Morale was shattered, however, and along with it any dreams of Granada controlling the sea...
The Spanish-Italian scoundrels made haste to exploit this weakness, by trying to land forces in Al Andalus. But whoever commanded their invasion forces was an imbecile. Instead of attacking the undefended heart provinces of Granada and Andalusia, the Spanish commander decided to try an amphibious assault on Catalonia. Since the siege was still ongoing, the entire Granadian army was assembled there. After months of dwindling their thumbs, waiting for the city garrison to surrender, they were delighted to finally get some exercise. Catalonia's shores were soon drenched with Spanish blood and littered with the corpses of thousands of infidel infantrymen. Granadian losses were marginal.
Smarting for her ally's disaster, the Naplese commander landed his forces in Roussillon. While it was undefended at the time of the invasion, it was within the short reach from Catalonia, and the Naplese infantrymen were badly outnumbered by the Granadian cavalry. When it reached them, their fate was no different from that of the Spanish.
This was enough to discourage Brittany and the Papal States from a direct attack on Granada, so they opted to strike at Bearn instead. They had just set up their camp for the siege, when Catalonia surrendered. With nothing else to do, the Granadian army came to the defense of Bearn. After a fierce fight, the remainer of the infidel host retreated to Gascogne. Gascogne? Yes, treacherous D'Artagnan had given the entire Spanish alliance right of passage! An act of defiance that would be punished - in time!
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4092/tlemcenintroubledv8.png
Yet again it is up to Granada to defend Béarn for her feckless ally!
The capture of the Spanish capital, along with the victories on land, made more than up for the disastrous naval record. But sitting idly until peace offers arrived wouldn't do. The enemies were still unbroken, and Spanish forces were besieging Tripolis. This prompted the Emir to send a large part to its relief - and to take some Italian provinces, if possible. Easier said than done, however, since the sea was blocked. It took half a dozen humiliating defeats before the troops had successfully crossed the straight of Gibraltar to Fez. The rest of the way was covered on foot. Once it arrived in Tripolis, defeating the small Spanish force there was a small matter. Several months - and several misadventures - later, Granada's navy finally arrived in Tripolis, too. The army embarked, and set over to Sicily!
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/646/attackonsicilyat5.png
Getting reinforcements to Sicily was a tricky business, for the Spanish dogs controlled the sea!
Sicily was undefended, but the size of its fortresses required reinforcements before sieges could begin. Getting them there required the navy to backtrack to Gibraltar through hostile waters and then make it back to Tripolis... another string of defeats! Naples warscore was now at 10% against Granada, purely due to its superior navy. But it had to be done, and eventually the troops reached the island. Neither Spain nor Naples made any attempt to help Sicily, so it surrendered.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8935/1512siegeofsicilyth1.png
While Sicily is wrestled from Spain, their army hides on Sardinia!
While Spain's inaction is puzzling Naples may be excused, for the infidels were -yet again - infighting. King Kan had send a massive army to his Italian provinces, and while the French and Spanish alliance wasn't at war, it was understandable that Naples was at loath to leave her core unprotected...
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9696/1511italyhasmobilizedib3.png
Allah protect us if they ever manage to get those troops to Al Andalus!
Meanwhile back in Al Andalus, the missionaries attempts came to a close. Murcia was welcomed to the brotherhood of the righteous, whereas the unbelievers in Asturias and Aragon revolted! They were put down quickly but the lack of success still stung. As if rebellion were suddenly the newest fashion, the natives of the Canary Islands attempted one as well. With no means of sending troops there, the Emir had to watch them take control of the island and damage the Granadian settlement on it. With that, the year 1512 came to a gloomy close.
The next year started on a lighter note, when the Papal States came begging for peace! While the capture of Rome certainly was a dream of the Emir, it wasn't something he intended to accomplish in this war. His quarrel was with Spain and Spain alone, her allies were welcome to get out of the way. A few days later, Brittany sued for peace as well.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/862/1513papalstatessuevo6.png
Pope Vir Ferreus MMLV has had enough!
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7918/1513brittanysuesgj8.png
Behold the cowardice of the unbelievers - another ally abandons Spain!
Granada's allies had settled for separate peace deals, without her noticing. The emir hoped that they at least had come out ahead in the negotiations, since their battles largely went against them. So now it was Granada against Naples and Spain. Naples wouldn't take a white peace, and with Naples navy hostile, there was no way to safely navigate the Mediterranean Sea. Even if it had been possible to somehow reach Sardinia, it was too heavily defended to attempt an assault. The only other option was to try to steal Spain's colonies. A tempting notion! But there was no port yet on the West Indies, and without one, attrition would be horrible.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7144/newworldxr0.png
The stain of the infidel is upon the New World already. It will be up to Granada to cleanse it!
While contemplating on whether to send a military expedition force right away, or try to colonize one of the West Indies first, a peace offer from Spain reached the Emir. They were offering all of Sicily!
While Sicily's provinces had an alien culture, and were inhabited by infidels, of course, they still would make an excellent launching pad for invasions into Italy. Granada accepted.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8964/1514spaingivesupzj7.png
Victory! Another limb has been severed from the monster, but it is not dead yet. Will Spain recover?
The bad boy rating is now at 22 again, so no more conquests for a while. In Europe, that is. I believe annexing pagans is acceptable, and we do have knowledge of the Aztec... Attacking them would require at least one colony as supply stop, however, or the attrition would become unbearable. And getting their world map would be tricky, as well. But the payoff would be all the treasures of Tenochtitlan!
Alternatively, we could turn on Songhai. They have been engaged in endless futile wars with Morocco. Futile mostly because Songhai is accessible only through two desert provinces with tiny supply limits. Getting there would either require a split of the army in very small units, or suffer horrible attrition. Besides, Songhai shares our faith, so i'm not even sure if conquering them wouldn't be considered a bad. The reward would be Timbuktu, a rich centre of trade, and provinces with fitting religion.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9962/songhaiay8.png
Fiery Songhai with rich Timbuktu is an alluring target. But how to cross the murderous deserts to reach it?
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2207/greatergranadaog8.pngThe land of the righteous and the divided fiefdoms of the not-yet-crushed.
Edit. If you are interested, here (http://razorvine.selfip.net/uploads/worldfactbook3311.htm) is a lot more information on the current state of affairs.
Hitti-Litti Apr 12, 2008, 01:56 PM Build a colony to Caribbean and attack Aztecs! And then convert Tenochtitlan! :D
Olav Apr 13, 2008, 01:30 AM Once again a great update. It must take a while to write it. :) Anyway, nice to see permanent Granadian presence on Sicily. I don't know if it will bring much income for you, though, with both wrong culture and wrong religion. You might want to consider releasing it as an vassal (that might not be possible before later in the game). If you manage to convert Sicily, the released vassal will be Sunni, by the way.
That's some tough luck with your navy. What naval tech do you got? If it's below 9, I would recommend building some galleys, as they are quite powerful compared to warships early in the game. Of course, if you're focused on Land in the DP-settings, you won't have much chance in naval engagements anyway.
Great to see that you now have maps over the New World! I would very much recommend start cranking out those settlers and colonize the rich provinces. The best provinces would be around Brazil (Recife), so if you get a conquistador, send him there! You can make a lot of money if you get there and manage to monopolize trade, which shouldn't be so hard with Portugal and Spain gone and weakened. ;)
Till Apr 13, 2008, 05:10 AM It wouldn't have been so long, was it not for the German railway company screwing up, leaving me stranded in a train station for two hours with nothing to do...
My navy tech is 3, i think. It's behind that of most European nations, in any case, and focus is on land. So lack of success is not really surprising, but still frustrating! Sicily would cost a fortune to convert, and i'm not going to create another Christian vassal. Gascogne is bad enough!
Taking the Aztec Empire would be awesome, but i only get one colonist in three years. I think at a bare minimum, colonies in Jamaica and Puerto Rico are required to get a decent supply route. And then there's the matter of getting the Aztec Map... it's going to cost a lot of bribe money!
Might be easier to let the Spanish take them, and take the colonies from Spain.
Granada can only get conquistadors via random events, and for those to come into play, i need a naval tech of >=11. That's a loooooooong way off and America might already be divided by then...
Olav Apr 13, 2008, 06:21 AM Ah, only level 3? Then you should build some galleys! 20 or 30 should do - they're not expensive, and also cheap in upkeep. Hopefully it will be easier to get troops back and forth to Sicily then. I think it will be very difficult to defend that island without a proper navy.
It shouldn't be so hard to take out the Aztecs if you got land tech 9, as assaulting their forts will succeed almost all the time. Build a level 1 colony in either Jamaica or Puerto Rico to get the supply route up. You don't need higher level than that. With only one support port, you should wait for naval tech 4 so you can build transports, which are way faster than the galleys (and they don't sink so fast in open waters).
You're probably aware of it already, but you won't get BB from declaring war on pagans, nor from annexing them. You can annex them in one go if you control all their provinces. At least this counts for Europeans (I think Granada is European).
I don't think there is any preconditions for getting conquistadors. You need it for explorers though. :)
Good luck in the forthcoming years! If you have the money and techs, it'll be fun to see a muslim invasion of America... ;)
Till Apr 13, 2008, 11:38 AM The galley idea certainly is worth considering. If we going to dabble in the Colonization business in America, we are going to need two navies.
Land Tech is 3 or 4, so sieges will have to go on until the forts surrender. Kan does have Land Tech 9, though, so and he just finished a war against Austria and Switzerland. If he's looking our way, then we'll have to hope for incompetent generals...
Hitti-Litti Apr 13, 2008, 01:11 PM Buy galleys, but also a couple of warships. Galleys aren't good in travelling to America, if you try that you will most likely lose a big chunk of your navy during the trip. Warships and transports are much better when travelling big distances.
Kan' Sharuminar Apr 14, 2008, 04:29 PM Can't see if this has been brought up before, but how many monarchs does Granada get with AGCEEP? Vanilla EU2 seems to only give Granada leaders until 1492, and the last one seems a bit average at best.
One thing I did like about EU3 that EU2 lacks was the ability to give your country 'national ideas.', so you could steer it towards certain doctrines. Would be handy to boost your navy and gain extra colonists, if you're dedicated to taking the Americas.
Personally however, I would worry more about European adventures.
Till Apr 29, 2008, 02:42 PM Conquest of the New World
And crumble of the Old
With Spain humiliated and Granada's reputation once again in ruins over the acquisition of Sicily, it seemed natural that King Kan would retaliate in the name of Infidelity Christianity. But for some reason, he didn't. Maybe it was rumors of religious strife being on the verge of breaking out that kept Kan's hands idle, or maybe the wine had made him soft - who knows?
With France docile, Granada turned her attention towards the new world. Contact with the Aztec empire had been established, and bribes were issued until Granada was in possession of map describing the locations of all Aztec provinces.
At the same time, colonies were established in Porto Rico and Jamaica. They were merely meant to serve as supply stations for Granada's expedition forces, but Puerto Rico proved useful far beyond that, for gold was found on the island!
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7325/aztecbeforeconquestiv4.png
The Aztec Empire... ripe for the plucking!
The Aztecs never suspected any mischief, thinking Granada had paid hundreds of gold for their map out of idle curiosity. How wrong they were became obvious to them all too soon, when Granadian cavalry landed on their shores! With supply lines shaky, Granada's expedition force had to split up in order to avoid attrition. Fortunately, the Aztec generals chose not to make advantage of this, and opted for a wait and see approach while they assembled a huge army in an uncontested province.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9674/aztechordebr5.png
Why don't they seek battle? Did Granada's forces forget to bathe?
After Granada had taken several provinces, they finally decided to intervene by trying to win back an undefended conquered province. The Granadian general wasn't keen on risking the lives of any of his men due to the difficulties of getting replacements, so the war largely went without bloodshet. Instead, simply he lay siege to another undefended Aztec province. It soon became obvious that more soldiers would be required to defeat the Aztecs, but just when the reinforcements were about to embark in Tago, fate intervened!
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9941/betweenaztecwarsbu8.png
Lack of troops and certain developments in Europe delay the conquest of the Aztecs.
England declared war! They were part of an alliance let by Venice. None of its members had had any quarrel with Granada before, so their motives were a little opaque. But it's not like the infidel barbarians need an excuse for bloodshed, anyway.
This time around, Granada's navy didn't even leave the port, remembering how futile naval battles had been against the Spanish coalition. With England free to chose the battlefield, they picked Rousillion. What is it with this province that every nation seems hell bent to conquer it? Well, no matter, it suited Granada well. Attempts by Venice to directly land troops there were easily defeated. England, however, attacked it via Gascogne, which once again betrayed her master.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3938/englandwardy4.png
Battling a new enemy on familiar ground...
Keeping the English out of Rousillion was a costly business, taking the lives of many Granadian men and horses. It was largely successful, however, and eventually Venice sued for peace. Their compensation offer was an insult to Granada's dead, but the Emir was all to glad to take it for Granada's coffers were empty by now.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6904/venicepeacerebelenglandts9.png
Hardly a fair compensation. But at least England takes care of the rebels on the Balears for Granada!
About the same time, the "reformation" struck Europe. From then on, granada was left in peace while the rest of Europe descended into chaos. France, the former superpower, became the battleground of an European war. The Huguenots and French Catholics split from it, were conquered, split again, were annexed by a foreign power, and seceded again. Only to come under foreign influence again. Meanwhile other nation, chiefly among them Poland, pounded the remainder of France, annexing several provinces. Gascogne was caught in the crossfire and got herself annexed by England. This might actually be a blessing in disguise, as England would be unlikely to grant France military access. Not that France was such a terrible threat anymore...
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9783/europeinflamesow3.png
Behold the self destruction of the infidel!
Spain grabbed parts of the Netherlands for herself, but mainly focused on colonizing America. Granada was free to pursue her own agenda in America, and conquered the Aztecs in a series of wars. Compared to the last war against England and Venice, the Aztecs with their obsolete weapons were pushovers. The biggest problem was the small supply limit of Aztec provinces, but this became less of an issue once a few had been annexed.
The conquest of Tenochtitlan concluded Granada's expansions for the time being. Europe was still tearing herself apart, so the Emir decided to finally get his diverse and decentralized empire in shape. Much of the Aztec gold was reinvested into conventing the New World to the True Faith, while domestic policies were enacted to centralize the administration of the empire in Granada. This was dull work, but substantially increased revenue and sped up research.
Spain was also active in the New World, establishing colonies left and right. Unfortunately for them, they seemed unable to deal to revolts there, and not before long, several had defected to Granada!
Another milestone was reached when Granada received her first Conquistador. For the first time, it was possible to gain further knowledge of America without conquering the Spanish capital. Exploring turned out to be quite fun, even though it didn't compare to sticking it to the Spanish, of course...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7382/screensave57lo4.png
Granada's current oversea possessions.
It was this way that contact with the Inca was established. Unfortunately there was no realistic way of reaching them with a sizable army, so the Emir had to content himself with watching Spain's failures to conquer them. Having been thoroughly bored with decades of peace, Morocco's attack on the Songhai empire was a welcome chance to increase the empire again. In a series of wars, the Songhai were broken up into several kingdoms, and their centre of trade Timbuktu was annexed by Granada.
After that, expansion occurred only via colonists. This was a costly and often unsuccessful business, but at that time, Granada had pulled ahead of the rest of the world in trade technology. Granadian merchants dominate the markets at the time this is written, generating more than enough revenue to fuel colonization attempts.
The wars between the European nations appear to have calmed down a bit by now, with France coming out as the big loser. Poland, along with Austria, are major powers now. Fortunately too far in the East to be a threat to Granada - or so the Emir likes to believe!
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7382/screensave57lo4.png
How the mighty have fallen!
With France's threat contained, Spain and England look posed to be most dangerous threats. Spain has the second largest income in the game - behind Granada - but its inflation is much higher. It holds claims on half of Iberia's provinces, which are viewed as legitimate for some bizarre reason. England was barely scratched during the latest wars, and had at some point Brittany and the Huguenots as vassals. I believe Brittany is now a vassal of Spain - it's hard to keep track. In any case, they look to be in a good position to challenge for a spot in the New World. Both nations are way ahead in military technology, since Granada focused all research on Trade and Infrastructure for the better part of a century.
We are now in a comfortable position with plenty of cash flowing in. By simply keep sending merchants it should be possible to generate enough income to stay ahead in the trade technology race. Colonists could be used to flesh out our oversea holdings, many of which are trade posts or level 1 colonies. That'd probably be smart move, if a bit dull.
Or we could use to money to try to extend Granada's reach further into Europe. With France being in such a weakened state, it should be possible to take a province or two. Our bad boy rating is way down to ~10, since Granada acquired only one "Old World" province, Timbuktu, in over a hundred years.
So what to do?
@Kan
I took a peek at the monarch file, and there appear to be enough to last until the end of the game. There was a noticeable improvement in quality since the historical monarch had run out. No more "Civil War" kings...
EU2 does allow you set doctrines - it's called "domestic policies". You can change them only once in 10 years, though, and then only by a single notch. Taking Granada from a decentralized mess to a strictly centralized empire took almost 100 years!
Edit:
Two more pics showing the current (1646) economic situation:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8225/1646nt0.png
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8514/tradezq7.png
Hitti-Litti Apr 29, 2008, 02:58 PM Conquer the Inca empire! Declare war to Spain, take few colonies, move as many troops as possible to Spanish South America, make a status quo peace, use the Spanish lands to get to Cuzco.
Olav May 01, 2008, 01:37 PM Ah, great to see the presence of Moors in the New World. That Aztec gold would surely help you in future struggles. And it's also good to see that you're making a fortune on trading. It shouldn't be too hard to secure 100% monopolies in American CoTs, bringing your income to further heights.
With your economy on track, it's perhaps time for some warfare or bribing? Maybe it will be possible to vassalize and diploannex Morocco now? And maybe you could afford to recruit a large army to defeat the Spanish at Sardinia? :)
By the way, it seems that you posted the same pic twice.
Hitti-Litti May 01, 2008, 03:09 PM Diploannexing Morocco wouldn't be possible now, I think that Granada doesn't have a land contact with them, and a borderline on land is needed in diploannex.
Till May 02, 2008, 03:00 PM Ridding the Spanish of the colonies and getting to the Incas certainly is tempting...
Not sure how the mixup with the screenshots happened. I'm sure everything was fine when i previewed it. Will fix that once i get home!
We do have a land connection with Morocco, since we have split former Songhai between us. Granda getting their TOC, Morocco the rest. Unfortunately Morocco has still Tunesia as vassal. I don't think they are currently in our alliance, so conquering them and transfering the vassalage would fix that...
Kan' Sharuminar May 02, 2008, 04:36 PM Alas for poor France. May she rise again to threaten Granada once again.
The national ideas thing is similar to domestic policies (they're carried on to EU3 themselves), but you choose specific boosts (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/National_ideas) your nation will get. It was only a side comment though, just lamenting it would have been handy to have one that gives extra colonists a year, particularly given your desire for adventures in the Americas :)
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