Here is a summary of the current city production. I plan to keep this first post updated as each round is played.

This is a public (i.e., non-government) thread for citizens to make suggestions regarding what we should produce in our cities. Government officials are of course welcome to post here either in an official capacity or as a citizen.:)

Production summary 410 BC

Size City Turns Producing Turns
to grow till done

Ishtar
7 Fox Nest 6 - Heroic Epic 1
5 Eyr 4 immortals 4
5 Shailonegha 2 warrior 4
7 PDX 5 immortals 4
2 Khatovar 4 spearman 13

Greater Cormyr
4 Pherris 13 immortals 8
2 Civanatoria 12 immortals ?
? New Falcon's Haven ? spearman ?
2 Philadelphia 2 temple 48
3 New York 4 spearman ?

Third Province
3 Washington 2 spearman 6
Other American cities building spearmen.

nice, Donsig. This will help me in the chat session. I'll keep it up in a small box next to the chat window.

You're welcome Cyc!

Right now we're building 3 barracks, 2 temples, a settler and a wonder. My suggestion is to dispense with the temples and one barracks in favor of a second settler and some spearmen!

To wit:

Eyr change from temple to settler
Shailonegha change from barracks to spearmen
Civinator change from temple to spearmen

These last two cities I'd have producing spearmen to garrison all our cities.

The barracks in PDX will be finished during the next round of play. I would have it start an immortal or proto-immortal once the barracks is completed.

I reformatted the data (thanks to help from disorganizer) and now it is displayed without having to download anything.

Another round is to be played tonight and I do hope there will be some discussion beforehand concerning our current production!

Originally posted by donsig


Shailonegha change from barracks to spearmen
Civinator change from temple to spearmen



We need to get the worker building the iron road up to Shailenogha to build a mine on that grassland with the shield, and on the other grassland. This will significantly speed up the production of the barracks, at which point I agree spearmen should be buit and sent to the border cities. I believe it is very important to build the temple in Civanator to provide a defensive barrier to a sneak attack by the Americans, and to do the same when we go to war with them. The first veteran spearment from Shailenogha should be sent here. Eyr will build at least one more settler, maybe two. Pherris and PDX will complete their barracks and start producing units. Immortals in Pherris and proto-immortals in PDX. Fox's nest, of course, will continue with the Pyramids.

The only ones of these I am adamant about are the settler in Eyr(I believe the populace supports this), and the Pyramids in Fox's Nest. The others are up for discussion.

Yes, a settler should be built in Eyr now - forget the temple there - we'll build a library later. We've also gone too far too abandon the wonder.

Glad to hear you're willing to discuss the others. Any idea how fast the barracks in Shailonegha will be done? Personally, I'd forego the baracks there and the temple in Civinator for now in favor of spearmen now. If we're worried about a sneak attack by Abe then we need spearmen not temples. I think regular spearmen will do for garrison and MP duty.

Hammurabi declared war on us because he sees we are weak. Our neighbors see the same thing...

Originally posted by donsig
Hammurabi declared war on us because he sees we are weak. Our neighbors see the same thing...

Yes! That is why! We need more units now so the nations see us as great peoples, and we can get whatever we want! That is a big reason I want a large military, not just to take over the world...;)

Originally posted by donsig

Glad to hear you're willing to discuss the others. Any idea how fast the barracks in Shailonegha will be done? Personally, I'd forego the baracks there and the temple in Civinator for now in favor of spearmen now. If we're worried about a sneak attack by Abe then we need spearmen not temples. I think regular spearmen will do for garrison and MP duty.



The expansion of the borders of civinator would provide us the time to rush a spearmen if it was necessary, should american troops appear inside our borders. Additionally, the expanded borders would cause horsemen to have to sit in our territory for a turn before attacking, giving us a chance to destroy them. I would like to build one in one of the cities that will have a barracks soon, and send it there. The other benefit of the temple is that it will be a major step in joining our borders. I think the worker can make it to shailenogha in about 4 turns, and then another three turns to mine that grassland. The barracks would be done about 9 turns after this, or maybe less, if we mined the other grassland. Or we could rush the barracks. Unhappiness should not be too much of a problem, as Shailenogha grows slowly, but we would probably need another police unit.

I understand the benefits of expanding our cultural borders. However I think that by not building spearmen and remaining weak in the eyes of our neighbors we are inviting an attack by them.

I also think we would be better off building libraries to expand our borders rather than temples. (I know literature is 23 turns away.)

I think the worker can make it to shailenogha in about 4 turns, and then another three turns to mine that grassland. The barracks would be done about 9 turns after this, or maybe less, if we mined the other grassland.

We have three workers:

One is working on the road to connect iron to Pherris. 3 turns till finished.

One irrigating wheat near PDX. 2 turns to go.

One building a mine in Fox Nest. One turn left.

I gathered the following data by starting a game on a tiny map as Persia and just seeing how long it took the worker to do various tasks:

3 turns to road grassland
2 turns to irrigate grassland
4 turns to mine grassland
4 turns to road a hill
7 turns to mine a hill

Using this information it will take ten turns to get a grassland tile mined near Shailonegha (assuming we allow the workers to complete their current tasks). The worker builing the iron road could mine the grassland to the NE of Shailonegha while the worker near Fox Nest could mine the one to the SE (the one without a shield already). Either would be done in ten turns.

Shailonegha has 15 shields already towards the barracks. It needs 25 more. Producing 2 shields/turn but one is wasted hence the 25 turns to complete. BUT Shailonegha will grow in 7 turns and this should add one more good shield to production per turn. So, 6 turns @ 1 s/t puts it up to 21 s with 19 to go. @ 2 good s/t that's 10 more turns so the barracks will be done in 16 turns without mining.

Mining may not even have an impact since the fourth shield may be wasted. If mining did produce a good shield then with one mine it would be at 29 s with 11 to go when the mine began operating (10 turns from now). @ 3 good s/t that leaves 4 turns to go for a total of 14 turns. The mine would save two turns if the new shield isn't waste.

And either way the barracks in both PDX and Pherris would be complete by then.

If we switch to spearmen recruiting now we'd have one ready in 5 turns and another in 11.

BTW, it would take the worker near Pherris 12 turns to complete a road (through the iron) connecting Shailonegha and Pherris. If we do complete the barracks in Shailonegha is it supposed to be connected to the iron net?

I believe our military advisor still says we are on par with the Yanks in military power, so I do not think they will attack us on their own anytime soon. Were they to be approached by the Babylonians, that would be another story. I believe we do need to build our military, but that it should be done in cities with barracks, and then the units moved to the appropriate cities. Pherris and PDX will build units pretty quickly once they have barracks, and grow a little more.

I want cultural improvements ASAP, as they will quickly double their culture value if we build them in the BCs. This is especially important for a border city like Civanator. Once the temple is done, I would like to build walls, and a barracks, however.

I believe Shailenogha should build spearmen when it completes its barracks, to be sent to border cities, because it will probably not build the more expensive immortals very quickly.

Originally posted by donsig


I gathered the following data by starting a game on a tiny map as Persia and just seeing how long it took the worker to do various tasks:

3 turns to road grassland
2 turns to irrigate grassland
4 turns to mine grassland
4 turns to road a hill
7 turns to mine a hill



I am not to sure about some of this. I am pretty sure that it takes an industrious worker only two turns to road grassland, 3 turns to road a hill, 3 turns to mine grassland,and maybe 5 turns to mine a hill.

I am not to sure about some of this. I am pretty sure that it takes an industrious worker only two turns to road grassland, 3 turns to road a hill, 3 turns to mine grassland,and maybe 5 turns to mine a hill.

Maybe someone out there will independently check my data. I used Persia, tiny map, monarch level.

I want cultural improvements ASAP, as they will quickly double their culture value if we build them in the BCs. This is especially important for a border city like Civanator. Once the temple is done, I would like to build walls, and a barracks, however.

Just how long to we estimate Civinator will be a border city?

Originally posted by donsig


Maybe someone out there will independently check my data. I used Persia, tiny map, monarch level.



Just how long to we estimate Civinator will be a border city?

Unless we attack someone other than the americans, it will be on our southern border for quite some time, maybe indefinately.

excellent work on running the numbers donsig. That's the kind of detailed info the citizens need. it is in sharp contrast to a lot of the quesswork that is posted. i certainly hope you are running for office next election.

our cultural positioning in the world now is very good. all the other nations are impressed. i agree (at this time) that our front line town of Civanator needs to switch to spearman.

Glad to hear tht Cyc. I just posted in the War Church that I do have reservations about switching the temple in Civinator since it is close to Egypt. But if you think it's ok then my reservations are gone. I prefer libraries over temples anyway!

Running for office? I kinda like this independant watch dog type of role. Get to do alot of complaining and there's no real responsibilities.:D

The first post in this thread has been updated to reflect the situation as of 875 BC.

Additional info:

City / shields stockpiled / good shields per turn

Eyr / 0 / 3
Shailonegha / 36 / 3
Pherris / 39 / 3
PDX / 9 / 5
Khatovar / 6 / 3
Civanatoria / 4 / 2
I suggest the two settlers be switched to military units.

It is a difficult thing to turn discussions and debates into plans and then get the plans implemented!

I suggested earlier in this thread that Eyr be switched from a temple to a settler. I pointed out that the settler would be ready in seven turns with three or four turns wasted while it waited for Eyr to grow to size three. During the turn chat this was tried but the settler would have had to wait 7 turns while Eyr grew to size three. I think a warrior was built then the settler and the combination took 10 turns.
I went back to the old save (1125 bc) to see what my mistake was. With Eyr's second citizen working a forest tile it would grow in 10 turns with the settler waiting around 7. With the second citizen working a grass tile Eyr would have grown in 7 turns with the settler waiting 4 turns.

Under the circumstances (the Great War) we're better off with the proto-immortal we made but I still point this out as an example of the pitfalls we face in turning debate into positive action. With the situation we face now every step we take is important!

I humbly suggest that Eyr switch production from a barracks to a spearman. I further suggest that after the spearman is built Eyr should produce a settler.

As Mayor of Fox Nest I am worried that our defenses are too thin in the capitol. We currently have a garrison of one spearman unit and one band of warriors. Our scouts have reported two bands of Roman warriors to the south of Fox Nest and while our defenses should hold against an attack by them there is no guarantee. A third unit for defense of the capital would ensure our great project is not destroyed before it is completed.

I would urge the immediate dispatch of the current Eyr garrison to the capitol were it not for the recent barbarian activity to the northwest of Eyr.

Hence the suggestion that Eyr build a settler after building a spearman. We must settle the NW to get horses and eliminate the threat of barbarian raids on Eyr.

Originally posted by donsig
I humbly suggest that Eyr switch production from a barracks to a spearman. I further suggest that after the spearman is built Eyr should produce a settler.

I second this suggestion. Phoenatica has plenty of military forces in production. When the settler is completed, the spearman could be moved back from the capital to garrison the new city.

Yes, new Eyr spearman could escort the settler to a new city in the NW. I was thinking along the same lines but whould suggest that the immortal guarding Pherris be transferred to Fox Nest when Pherris's spearman is complete. The transfer can be made in time for the spearman to make it back to Eyr to escort the settler.

Shailonegha has become our proto-immortal factory. It is currently producing six shields with two going to waste for a net of 4 shields. That produces one warrior every 3 turns. Shailonegha has two surplus food and will grow in 10 turns.

I suggest reallocating the cities citizens so that a hill is worked rather than the plani grassland. This will slow Shail's growth (one surplus food, 20 turns to grow) but will give an net of 5 shields allowing us to make warriors in two turns. note that we currently make enough gold to upgrade a warrior every two turns. In effect we'd have one city making an immortal every two turns.

Production info updates for 490 BC. Please keep in mind that these are merely the current production settings in each city and are subject to change!

I encourage our governors to clarify their long (and short) term production plans for each city!

My cities production summaries are easy. The military may decide what every one of the first 5 cities will produce except for Khatovar, which will finish it's spearman, and then build a settler. We need sufficient defense in the south, so military needs will take priority until we start signing peace treaties.

Current map (10 AD).