Reserved for future use

This thread is still under construction, it currently holds the following

Religions including details of what the religions do as well as the revolutionary concept of Sub Religions (Psychic_Llamas patented apply to him if you want it :P)

The intial results of the traits of the Warhammer worlds civs discussion...

The terrain and the like which is a big step forward in terms of scope...

Reserved for future use

Reserved for future use

In the old brainstorm thread we went through a lot in a short period of time, probably to much to go through completely this is a brief summary of what we have discussed using quotes form Arexack_heretic (AH), Psychic_Llamas (PH for me, PL for everyone else) and from a couple of other people and Masada (Me)

The rest of this post concerns the ideas we had about religions (yes it does deserve iits own post :lol:)

Religions

In the brainstorming thread we spent a lot of time agonizing over the religions of the Warhammer World. What started out as a simple idea has developed into a complex idea which encompasses all sorts of different facets of different religions. Initially there was a large discussion about the nature of the different religions, there role in the warhammer world, what they stood for and what are there most distinct traits.

There were a number of incidents perhaps the most interesting of them was the “Elven Incident”, where perhaps naively I described elves as evil, not just dark elves but all elves the backlash I got from it was amazing, Arathlan wanted to have a burn war over it. Even Psychic_Llamas agreed with my view (and he plays Woodelves)

Psychic Llamas in a post to me “ELVES ARE NOT EVIL!! *ehem*” oh the sarcasm in that *ehem*. Sadly that incident may have driven Arathlan away from the thread we haven’t heard from him in a while.

Perhaps the most important part of that discussion was the development of the idea of having a Main Religion e.g Dark Children and inside that broad category having a sub religion e.g Chaos Dwarf Pantheon that was the catalyst for an explosion of ideas.

Perhaps one of the most original ideas was that of Psychic_Llamas point on the spread of faiths

"if every now and again, SR buildings can spawn barbarian acolytes etc of their SRs (which don’t attack) but only move to different cities and spread their religions, or inquisition others. that would make the SR a little out of the players control and add an element of chance like with the CRs."

Another interesting idea was about the possible way in which Chaos could have a more insidious effect. With Fall From Heaven 2 in my mind I suggested that there could be a cult of the dragon style factor could be added to units that were created in a city with a Chaos religion that is not a chaos city with a percentage based chance of changing sides on a certain trigger.

For a list of religions and there effects:

Old Faiths:


The Old Faith --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev, Norsca, Albion, Araby.
Asuryanism / Cult of Asuryanism --- High Elves (as well as the other elves)
Cult of Khaine --- Dark elves (as well as the other elves)
Followers of Isha --- Wood Elves (as well as the other elves)
Dwarven Pantheon (Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)--- Dwarves
The Old Ones --- Lizardmen, Amazonians
Ormzad Pantheon --- Araby, Khemri(probably Khemries religion before they died), Lhamia (lhamia is a break away civ from Khemri and therefore used to have the same religion as them)
-The Indic Pantheon --- Ind

The "Old Faiths" Religion:
In General:
Old Faiths has a slow spread rate.
with more expensive, powerful priests than other religions.
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be more expensive, but will have stronger effects than the other religions.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Old Faith sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Old Faith sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Old Faiths sub religion. Can heal units.


Sub Religions:
-The Old Faith
Can only build Altars. Each Altar makes Priests and magic casters slightly cheaper, and allows all priests of the Old Faith to act as a normal mage and thus start with one free spell from any of the 8 Winds of magic.
Altars also produce +1 Magic Commerce.
The Monument gives all new priests of the Old Faith built in this city another free spell from any of the 8 Winds of magic.
---Buildings:
Altar= Coven
Temple= none
Cathedral= none
Monument= Monument of Nature
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Witch
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)---Druid
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)---Arch Druid (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-Asuryanism
All Asuryan priests have free access to the Winds of Fire as any normal fire mage would. Mage priests of Asuryan can also act as inquisitors to remove non-state religions. All Altars produce +1 happiness. Temples and cathedral also produce an additional +1 Happiness in their cities if it has access to Incense.
---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Flame
Temple= Temple of Asuryan
Cathedral= Hall of the Phoenix
Monument= The Shrine of Asuryan
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) ---Asuryan Dedicate
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of Asuryan
High Priest (requires Cathedral) ---Mage Priest of Asuryan (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-Cult of Khaine
units built in cities with: Altar gain +1 EXP, Temple gain +1 more EXP, Cathedral gain +1 more EXP. Priests of the Cult of Khaine are able to enslave defeated enemies. Slaves may be sacrificed in cities with Altars, Temples or Cathedral to: Rush a building, make an instant +10 Science, or to add +1 EXP to one Priest of the Cult of Khaine present In the city.
---Buildings:
Altar= The Blood Altar
Temple= Temple of Khaine
Cathedral= Hall of Murder
Monument= The Sword of Khaine
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) ---Acolyte of Khaine
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priestess of Khaine
High Priest (requires Cathedral) ---Bride of Khaine (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-Followers of Isha
All workers are unable to cut forests of clear jungle. Cities with Altar gain +1 food from forests. Cities with Temples gain +1 Happiness from forests. High Priests are able to plant forests. All High priests of the Followers of isha have the spell “Isha’s Blessing” (which is a variant of the WE spell ‘Ariel’s Blessing’) which gives the target unit ‘regeneration’ until the start of the next turn.
---Buildings:
Altar= Sacred Tree
Temple= Isha's Grove
Cathedral= Oaken Hall
Monument= The Tears of Isha
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Handmaiden of Isha
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priestess of Isha
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- High Priestess of Quyl-Isha (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-Dwarven Pantheon
cities with the: Altar gain +10% defence, Temple gain another +5% defence, +1 Science, Cathedral gain another +5% defence, +1 Science. All units built in the city with the monument have the ‘stubborn’ ability.
---Buildings:
Altar= Oath Tablet
Temple= Temple of the Dwarf Gods
Cathederal= Hall of the Elders
Monument= The Book of Grudges
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Acolyte of the Dwarf Gods
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of the Dwarf Gods
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- Warrior-Priest of the Dwarf Gods (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Old Ones
All Priests of the Old Ones are able to enslave defeated opponents. Slaves can be sacrificed in cities with the: Altar to produce an instant +10 magic commerce. Temple to produce an extra instant +10 magic commerce, Cathedral to produce an extra instant +10 Science. Mage priests of the old Ones act as a normal Mage and can choose magic from any of the Winds of magic like a normal mage.
---Buildings:
Altar= Sacrificial Altar
Temple= Temple of the old Ones
Cathederal= Pyramid Temple
Monument= The Marks of the Old Ones
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Prophet of the Old Ones
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of the Old Ones
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- Mage-Priest of the Old Ones (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-Ormzad Pantheon
Cities with the: Altar get +1 Happiness , Temple get +1 Happiness from Incense and priests of the Ormzad pantheon built in those cities get the ‘inquisitor’ ability, Cathedral are immune to the spread of non state religion. All priests of the Ormzad Pantheon built in cities with the Cathedral are able to summon elementals and act like normal elementalists.
---Buildings:
Altar= Obelisk to the Gods
Temple= Temple of Al-Anon
Cathedral= Al-Anon Grand Temple Complex
Monument= Al-Anon’s Garden
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Ormzad Initiate
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of Ormzad
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- Great Sage of Ormzad (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Indic Pantheon
Altars produce +1 great People Points. Temples give + 1 Culture, Cathedrals Gain +1 gold. The Home of the Gods produces +1 Gold for every Acolyte of the Indic Pantheon. All High Priests of the Indic pantheon are able to instantly construct any of the Indic pantheon religious Buildings at the cost of being sacrificed. In doing so the indic pantheon is also spread to the chosen city.
\---Buildings:
Altar= Shrine of the Inner-Self
Temple= Temple of the Thousand
Cathedral= Hall of the Thousand
Monument= The Home of the Gods
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Pilgrim of the Thousand
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of the Thousand
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- Great Sage of the Thousand(World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


Young Gods:

Northen Gods (gods of winter etc)---The Empire, Kislev, Norsca, Albion
Southern Gods (gods of plenty etc)---Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilia, Albion
Old World Pantheon (Morr, Ulric, Rhia, Manann, Verena, Haendryk, Myrmidia, Luccan, Luccina etc) --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev
Norse Pantheon (Thor, Odin etc)--- Norsca, kislev, Empire for diversity?
The "Young Gods " Religion:
In General:
Young Gods has a normal Spread rate
with normal costs and priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an average cost, and will have normal effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
-The Northern Gods
All altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods make Alters temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods unavailable in the city that they are built (meaning that one city cannot have both the Northern gods and the southern gods in it at the same time.) Altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods each make all units 5% cheaper to produce (military and religious).
The city with the monument becomes immune to Barbarian attacks (meaning that barbarians cannot attack the city with the northern monument)
All religious units have 1 more strength than normal religious units.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Northern Gods
Temple= Temple of the Northern Pantheon
Cathedral= Sacred Hall of the Northern Pantheon
Monument= Hall of Heavenly Protection
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Northern Fanatic
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Warrior Priest of the North
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Warrior High-Priest of the North (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


-The Southern Gods
All altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods make Alters temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods unavailable in the city that they are built (meaning that one city cannot have both the Northern gods and the Southern gods in it at the same time.) Alters, Temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods each produce +1 Happiness.
All Priests and high Priests of the southern gods are also able to build ‘libraries’ in cities with the Southern Gods CR at the cost of their life.
The Hall of Heavenly Bounty makes all plots of land in it’s cities radius with 2 food instead produce 3.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Southern Gods
Temple= Temple of the Southern Pantheon
Cathedral= Sacred Hall of the Southern Pantheon
Monument= Hall of Heavenly Bounty
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Southern Altar Servers
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Scholar Priest of the South
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Scholar High-Priest of the South (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


-The Old World Pantheon
All Old World Pantheon buildings produce +1 happiness if another Young Gods SR is present in the city. (cancelling out the -1 happiness from competing SR’s) all Temple Streets produce +1 gold, and Temple Districts produce +2 gold (symbolising the charitable donations by the population to the temples)
Priests are also able to inquisition.
Al Acolytes, Priests and High priests built in the city with the Seat of the Gods have one extra priest spell.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Gods
Temple= Temple Street
Cathedral= Temple District
Monument= Seat of the Gods
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Acolyte of the Gods
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Priest of the Gods
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- High Priest of the Gods (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Norse Pantheon
A city with a Norse Pantheon’s ‘Horgr’ is able to sacrifice an ‘animal’ to produce +1 Happyness for 5 turns. The Sacred Copse allows cities to build ‘Sacrificial Animals’ to be sacrificed at the Horgr. The Long House allows cities to build 2 kinds of High priest, a Seiokona who also acts also as a normal mage, and the Hersir, who is a strong warrior chieftain with very high moral bonuses to his stack but unable to inquisition. The Shamaness and Volva act also as weak mages.
The Valhalla makes all religious units built in the city start with one extra priest spell.

---Buildings:
Altar= Hörgr
Temple= Sacred Copse
Cathedral= Long House
Monument= Valhalla
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Shamaness
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Völva
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Seiðkona and Hersir (World Unit, can only have 3 of each at a time)


Dark Children:

Cult of Nagash /Veneration of Nagash / Pogrency of Nagash? --- Khemri, Lhamia, Sylvania
The Horned Rat --- Skaven
Gods of the Dark Forge? (better name?) --- Chaos Dwarves
Mark of Blood? Blood Cult? The Bloodless? --- Lhamia, Sylvania.

Details of the "Dark Children" sub religions:

The "Dark Children" Religion:
In General:
Dark Children has a Normal Spread rate
with expensive costs of priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an High cost, and will have Good effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
-The Veneration of Nagash
The Bone Pillar increases the heal rate of Undead units in and adjacent to the city, but decreases the heal rate of living units in and adjacent to the city.
The Temple of Skulls allows all religious units produced in the city to have access to one more spell from The Winds of Death magic.
Units can be sacrificed in cities with a Great Crypt Hall in it to produce an Undead unit (different undead unit depends on sacrificed unit ie sacrificed melee unit = Undead Swordman unit, sacrificed ranged unit = Undead Bowman unit, sacrificed mage unit = Undead Necromancer, mounted sacrifice = Undead Horseman)
These units all have the ‘Bound’ promotion, which means these units must stay within the cultural boarders of cities with Bone Pillars in them. In addition, Acolytes can build tile improvements called a ‘Necromancer’s Tower’ which expand the area that undead built in this way can traverse by 3 squares in each direction.
Priests start with 1 death spell and High Priests start with 2 death spells.
All undead and religious units built in the city with Nagashizzar in it gain the ‘Drain Life’ promotion which allows them to restore their health when they attack.

---Buildings:
Altar= Bone Pillar
Temple= Temple of Skulls
Cathedral= Great Crypt Hall
Monument= Nagashizzar
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Cultist of Nagash
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Dedicate of Nagash
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Great Follower of Nagash (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)





- The Horned Rat
The Great Bells of the Horned Rat creates sounds of pitches which, when heard vary to cause a feeling of happieness in followers of the Horned rat, and in non-skavens, a feeling of woe. Thus, cities with the Great belfry gain +1 Happiness. Cities with a Bell Temple, make enemy units in that cities cultural boarders have 25% less moral, and cities with Chapels of the 13 Bells prevent the building of non Horned Rat sub Religions, and the entering of non Horned Rat religious units into the city, as the sound of the 13 bells ringing constantly causes non believers to cringe in fear and go insane.
The religious units of the Horned rat can travel undetected in enemy lands, and thus can pass cultural boarders at will without causing war. Seers of the Horned Rat also are able to build Screaming Bell tile improvements, which also decrease the moral of non believers within 2 squares of them an additional 15%. Great Seers can spend a few turns to ‘build’ a “Doombell” siege unit. This acts the same as a catapult, but decreases the moral of units attacked a random amount each time. The Doombells act as ‘cargo’ for the Great Seers to ‘carry’ (its actually the other way around) and as such, Doombells MUST stay with Great Seers.

---Buildings:
Altar= Great Belfry
Temple= Bell Temple
Cathedral= Chapel of the 13 Bells
Monument= The Temple of the Horned Rat
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Prophet of the Horned Rat
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Seer of the Horned Rat
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Great Seer of the Horned Rat (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


-The Blood Cult
The Blood Shrine Heals all Vampiric units to full health when they stay in the city for 1 turn. The Blood House enables Blood Pets to be sacrificed to distribute 1 point of those Blood pet’s EXP randomly amongst the Vampires present in the city. The Hall of Blood Rights grants all units built in the city the ‘Vampirism I’ promotion, making them classified as a ‘Vampire.’ these units gain EXP faster, and are able to spread vampirism to those they defeat by creating ‘sub vampire’ 15% of the time, units called Blood Pets, also with the ‘Vampirism I’ promotion. All religious units have the ‘Vampirism’ promotion, but:
Vampire Initiates have the ‘Vampirism I’ promotion (classified as a Vampire, faster EXP gaining, 10% spawning of Blood Pet from victims)
Vampire Priestess’ have the ‘Vampirism II’ promotion (classified as a Vampire, faster EXP gaining, 25% spawning of Blood Pet from victims)
Vampire Queens have the ‘Vampirism III’ promotion (classified as a Vampire, faster EXP gaining, 50% spawning of Blood Pet from victims)

---Buildings:
Altar= Blood Shrine
Temple= Blood House
Cathedral= Hall of Blood Rights
Monument= The Blood Soaked Throne
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Vampire Initiate
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Vampire Priestess
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Vampire Queen (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

- Gods of the Dark Forge
The Chaos Anvil adds +2 hammers to it’s city. The Black Vaults add +2 gold to its city, and also give units produced there the ‘Dark Armour’ promotion (increased defence on all terrain, and bonus Vs Dwarves) the Catacombs of the Dark Ones add +2 Science and +2 magic commerce to the city, it also produces one dispel scroll each turn, which then ‘dies’ at the end of the turn.
The Acolyte of the Dark Forge acts as a Sorcerer normally would, and starts with 1 spell from any wind of magic.
The Priest of the Dark Forge acts as a Sorcerer normally would, and starts with 2 spells from any wind of magic.
The High-Priest of the Dark Forge acts as a Sorcerer normally would, and starts with 3 spells from any wind of magic.

---Buildings:
Altar= Chaos Anvil
Temple= Black Vaults
Cathedral= Catacombs of the Dark Ones
Monument= The Dark Forge
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Acolyte of the Dark Forge
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Priest of the Dark Forge
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- High-Priest of the Dark Forge (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


Chaos Cults

Nurgle --- Chaos, Beastmen
Tzeentch ---Chaos, Beastmen
Khorne---Chaos, Beastmen
Slaanesh---Chaos, Beastmen, Dark Elves
Chaos Undivided---Chaos, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarves
Details of the "Chaos Cults" sub religions:

Spoiler:

The "Chaos Cults" Religion:
In General:
Chaos Cults has a Fast Spread rate
with Expensive priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an very High cost, and will have very Good effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can capture defeated enemies as slaves.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can heal units. Can capture defeated enemies as slaves.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition. Can capture defeated enemies as slaves.


Sub Religions:
- Nurgle
Cities with a Nurgle Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Nurgle” Promotion (which allows that unit a 20% chance to create a Nurgling from it’s defeated enemies.
The Temple of Nugle allows its city to build Nurglings.
The Hall of Infection allows its city to build Plague Bearers with the ‘Gift of Nurgle’ promotion.
Nurgle Cultists can cast 1 spell from the Nurgle Spells list, Disciples of Nurgle can cast 1 spell from the Nurgle Spells list, Lord-Priests of Nurgle can cast 2 spells from the Nurgle Spells list.
The infernal Pit of Contagion automatically produces a great Unclean One every 80 turns (The Great Unclean One is a world unit)

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Plague
Temple= Temple of Nurgle
Cathedral= Hall of Infection
Monument= Infernal Pit of Contagion
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Nurgle Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Nurgle
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Nurgle (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Tzeentch
Cities with a Tzeentch Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Tzeentch” Promotion (which allows that unitto cast one spell from the Tzeentch magic list).
The Temple of Tzeentch allows its city to build Screamers of Tzeentch. (cause fear)
The Hall of Alteration allows its city to build Horrors of Tzeentch
Tzeentch Cultists can cast 2 spells from the Tzeentch Spells list, Disciples of Tzeentch can cast 3 spell from the Tzeentch Spells list, Lord-Priests of Tzeentch can cast 4 spells from the Tzeentch Spells list.
The Spire of Shifting Chaos automatically produces a Lord of Change every 80 turns (The Lord of Change is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of Change
Temple= Temple of Tzeentch
Cathedral= Hall of Alteration
Monument= Spire of Shifting Chaos
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Tzeentch Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Tzeentch
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Tzeentch (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Khorne
Cities with a Khorne Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Khorne” Promotion (which makes that unit Lust for Blood, and as such gains a movement bonus and strength bonus of 1 for the rest of the game).
The Temple of Khorne allows its city to build Flesh Hounds of Khorne.
The Hall of Blood allows its city to build Bloodletters.
Khorne rAcolytes, Priests and high priests cannot cast any Priest spells or any other spell, and cannot be affected by the Gift of Tzeentch promotion. They do however gain +1, +2, and +3 strength respectively.
The Blood Palace of Skulls automatically produces a Bloodthirster every 80 turns (The Bloodthirster is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of War
Temple= Temple of Khorne
Cathedral= Hall of Blood
Monument= Blood Palace of Skulls
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Khorne Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Khorne
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Khorne (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Slaanesh
slaves can be sacrificed at the Slaanesh Altar to create a miasma of intoxicating Musk over the city for 5 turns. While this ‘musk’ is in play, all enemy units adjacent to the city are affected by the “stupidity” rule.
The Temple of Slaanesh allows its city to build Daemonettes of Slaanesh.
The Hall of Pleasure allows its city to build Daemonettes on Steeds of Slaanesh.
(both Slaaneshi Deamons have the ‘gift of Slaanesh’ promotion, which gives them an extra first strike, and +1 movement, as well as a 20% chance of seducing a defeated enemy and produce a slave.)
Slaanesh Acolytes, Priests and high priests can cast 1, 2, and 3 spells from the Magic of Slaanesh respectively.
The Harem of Eternal lust automatically produces a Keeper of Secrets every 80 turns (The Keeper of Secrets is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of Desires
Temple= Temple of Slaanesh
Cathedral= Hall of Pleasure
Monument= Harem of Eternal lust
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Slaanesh Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Slaanesh
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Slaanesh (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Chaos Undivided
All Chaos Undivided buildings produce +1 happiness if another Chaos Cults SR is present in the city. (cancelling out the -1 happiness from competing SR’s) however, all chaos undivided buildings add a cumulative +15% building time to all non Chaos undivided temples and religious units and deamons.
Cities with a Chaos Undivided Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Chaos” Promotion (turning it into one random level 1 deamon of any of the 4 Chaos Gods).
The Chaos Temple allows its city to sacrifice deamons to gain 1 population
The 8 Halls of Chaos allows its city to sacrifice slaves to gain +15 instant Magic commerce.
All chaos undivided religious units act exactly as spys, except that instead of espionage, they can convert enemy cities without declaring war.
The Chaos Void automatically produces a Daemon Prince every 80 turns (The Daemon Prince is a world unit)

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Chaos
Temple= Chaos Temple
Cathedral= 8 Halls of Chaos
Monument= The Chaos Void
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Chaos Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Chaos Priest
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Chaos Mutant-Priest (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


Gods of Law:

Cathay (Possibly nippon as well?)
Jintoism --- Nippon (Possibly Cathay as well?)
Ormazd Pantheon --- Araby, Khemri
Sigmar --- Empire


Mortal Gods:

Lady of the Lake --- Bretonnia
Sigmar --- The Empire
Ursin --- Kislev
Cult of Celestial Dragon --- Cathay (they worship their emperors as gods)


Barbaric Gods:

Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (Worship of the Great Khans?)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)



Special not this is not a finished list or the final form of the list (it was updated as frequently as PH could manage

Traits we havent had a look at for a while, the boss has some ideas but for the sake of clarity and to inform the public i will list those that were written early on in the thread

Estalia: Um ere thinking of Spain... ships? Mercenaries? terico spearmen?

Ind: Free units for each temple? More culture (this is a mod about war...) ere uummm ere

Kislev:The Pulk and Rota system which is the kislevite way of calling together there armies in the face of chaos mass draft of units that have no upkeep but are tied to national borders or have some other sort of cap?

Nippon: Maybe ban peasants and other things from there selection and substitute it by giving them more expensive but very good units?

Norsca: More money from pillaging and all there units have chance of enslaving?

Tilea: Great militia units but no heavy knights?

Chaos: Lower upkeep cost and chance to enslave units?

Darkelves: Enslaving and maybe commando and the ability to heal quicker in enemy territory, Darkelves are cunning people?

Dwarfs: Extra defenses in cities and maybe +25% extra on the defense for all dwarf units?

Orcs: WAAAGGGGG upkeep what upkeep? There Orcs they don’t need much to keep going.. they are scary even when unarmed.. And only need a hunk of slag iron to do damage...

Highelves: .... not even going to bother.. Wouldn’t be able to control myself..

Tombkings: Umm there dead immune to psychology? and the ability to raise new units when they kill yours..

Lizardmen: Sacred Spawnings... build buildings that build units... you dont create units the building does.. maybe not skinks who breed i think and units are born with XP cause Lizardmen are born/created knowing how to kill..

Sylvanians: was just a province of the empire... and in a scenario should appear a V day (vampire day if you will) skeletons and other undead units create new units of skeletons when they kill stuff..

Woodelves: Tree Singing they can create woods with mages... and they have Guerilla 1 and 2? or some such... i can just see it the wood elf player creating forests all over the world and overrunning everything..


This is by no means concrete, even as i write this piece these traits have been refined in the religions area or just be let die quitetly i dont even know what the new traits planned are going to be...

Terrain and the like

I pulled this rabbit out of the hat, which i shouldn’t have... however this is going to be one of the most complex of changes if it implemented and its going to need a hell of alot of thinking as well as a hell of a lot of advice on viability...

Alignment Terrain

There was an idea to have aligned terrain, good, evil and neutral terrain for different civs... i take the blame for this there was only a bit of talk about it before this forum started the evil terrain according to PH (PL)

Grasslands-> Dark Lands
Plains-> Ash Plains
Desert-> Forsaken Desert
Tundra-> Frozen Lands
Ice-> Black Ice
Forest-> Petrified Forest
Jungle-> Forsaken Jungle
Mountains-> Black Mountains
Hills ->Barrows/Broken Hills

Then after a bit of discusion we came up with a four prong idea the 4 ideas of terrain according to AH

Wild lands (Orcs/Goblins/Ogres etc)
Enchanted lands (Elves/Albion/Lizardmen/Amazons etc)
Nonmagical/natura (Most humans/Dwarves etc)l
Cursed lands (Chaos/Undead etc)
Civilized lands (Some humans etc)

We still have alot to discuss about this (before Lord Olleus tells us it cant be done:lol:)



Will continue in a bit :D still a fair bit of ground to cover

:lol: nice job Masada :)

i started a new thread for the religions, because i though it might take up a LOT of space in here if people started discussing it here,
So everyone with ideas for religions, please check out the religions thread :)

The traits i think will also need a new thread, as will terrain, but im sure well get around to that later. :)

this is the Summary thread its here for people to read and see what we have done in the brainstorm thread :D

Good work, Masada

I like a lot of your ideas.

my 0.02 $ about the civs:

Highelves: better healing rate, strong magic

Tombkings: slow, but strong units, they have huge treasures, so capturing or pillaging their cities could bring more gold.

Ungols: tons of fast mounted units

These are not all my ideas there just what a summary of the stufff we got thought of in the brainstorm thread of yore

Highelves i was thinking better magic (but if we did that you would need to do the same for Lizardmen Slann), better healing would be a great idea i would imagine there logistics and medical care would be top notch...

Tombkings: should definatly be strong units but slow offset by having fast moving chariots and spells that increase movement would be good

Ungols: Why they would be a civ is a bit beyond me... the Tzarina is a double monarch she is the Tzarina of the Ungols and of *whatever her people are mental blank* the Ungols might not be the most loyal subjects but they rely on the cities for protection during the bad times and they also act as an early warning system. So there relationship is mutually benifical :D

But they should only have cavalry they dont fight unmounted, but they dont even build cities towns for trade but there only inhabbited a little bit of the time..

(i still need to add more stuff to the summary thread btw)

Ungols: Why they would be a civ is a bit beyond me... the Tzarina is a double monarch she is the Tzarina of the Ungols and of *whatever her people are mental blank* the Ungols might not be the most loyal subjects but they rely on the cities for protection during the bad times and they also act as an early warning system. So there relationship is mutually benifical :D

But they should only have cavalry they dont fight unmounted, but they dont even build cities towns for trade but there only inhabbited a little bit of the time..

(i still need to add more stuff to the summary thread btw)
They are a civ to fill in the gap between cathay in the east and the chaos dwarfs(which also will be included)/Hobgoblin Hegemony in the west on a large wh worldmap.;)

hmmm.... Ungols have territory extending from the river Lynsk running from Erangrad on the coast to through Praag to the high pass extending into Troll Country a little bit.. depending on how active Chaos tribes are...

Chaos Dwarves territory runs from the High Pass east to the mountains of mourn and only as far south as the The Gates of Zharr which constitutes the North of the Dark Lands the south of the Dark Lands is a mix of the occasional Ogres, Gnoblars and other Greenskins as well as the mostly human town of Pig Barter along the southern prong of the Silk Road

The Ogre Kingdoms encompasses the Mountains of mourn as far north as the start of the Chaos Wastes.. it should be noted however that North of the Ogre Kingdoms are Greenskins (Hobgoblin Hegomany) but there territory also extends south into the North of Ind, and east all the way to the great bastion (Cathay) but it also extends in a salient in the west out into the Dark Lands around the Northen Prong of the silk road (they control the point at which the silk road seperates into to parts) and this control may well continue into the Dead Rock Gap on the worlds egde mountains..

Imperial Cathay is according to my map (the latest official GW map) about 5 times the size of the empire (thats by eye only) its easily 3-4 times larger than Ind (thats by eye) the Ogre Kingdoms are about the same size as the Dark Lands (which is maybe only a bit less than a quarter smaller than Cathay, the Dark Lands are roughly the size of te Ogre Kingdoms maybe a bit bigger.. the Old World running from oh lets say the Badlands (below the Border Princes) incluing Norsca and Troll country is about the size of the Bad Lands..

Here would be my way of getting around the Ungol solution (where the heck would they have gone anyway?)

The area your talking about is A) Either the Mountains of Mourn (Ogre Kingdoms) B) Or in the south of the Dark Lands

Okay so here goes... Kislev is wedged between the Northen Wastes (which lead to Norsca) and the World Egde Mountains (Kislev does not face the Chaos Wastes proper its screened by Mountains, the reason Chaos attacks Praag is that is lies on the rougte through which Chaos attack the High Pass...

The Ungols are North of the River Lynsk which means they live in Troll country with a river and mountain pass between them and the Darklands and the Chaos Wastes..

(i would make a guess.. looking at Ungols that you got your infomation from here http://web.ukonline.co.uk/warbossalex/library/people_and_places/ungols.htm which is utter rubbish or way out of date.. dont know which but i suspect the later)

This has the truth http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ungol and so does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kislev_(Warhammer) and for a white dwarf reference look at the info accompanying the Kislevite Allied Army List (which i use sometimes with my army)

As it is... The Dark Lands is a waste land.. it would only support a single civ the Chaos Dwarves, south of the silk road there are hostile greenskins (barbs which could keep the Chaos Dwarves in check). The Ogre Kingdoms are all mountains with the Ogres living at the very peaks of them they raise there livestock in the valleys. Norhth of the Ogre Kingdoms is the start of the Chaos Wastes However running in a belt from probably the egde of the Great Bastion to around the area of the Skull Road there are Greenskin Nomads... the Hobgoblin Hegomony. East of the Ogre Kingdoms is Cathay whose size is controlled by Ind in the South East, and the Hinterlands of Khuresh which has god knows what living there.. but it must be of sufficent nastiness to stop Cathay expanding in there (most probably Greenskins (perfect Barbs), and directly above Cathay is the Eastern Steepes which lead into the Chaos Wastes, but this is populated by Hung human chaos worshippers...

When one talks about the great war against chaos one only envisions the attacks on Kislev and the Empire, but there have been great Incursions against the High Elves, Cathay, Lustria and the Southlands

If you were to do a proper map of the world the wastes would feature prominantly there are 3 major tribes of Chaos that Chaos could be split into to facilitate the filling of the wastes... the Norse (think Vikings raiders and pirates), The Kurgan (Normal Chaos with infantry) and the Hung (Mongols and Huns with only cavalry) they all raid different targets... The Hung attack the Dark Elves and Cathay and sometimes Nippon... The Norse raiding fleets attack the old world, araby, the coasts of Naggaroth, Ulthuan, Lustria and the rest of the Southlands... The Kurgans are the typical Chaos of warhammer they attack the far north of the Empire and Kislev from Troll Country but when they attack in strength they attack through the High Pass and go and attack Praag

In my view of this that are two truths that can actually form one. Ungols in Kislevite Territory are remnants of those Ungols which formed an Empire in the far east in even older days.(I admit I'm more the old style WH type of guy).
And I have to apologize because I wasn't exact here. I forgot to mention the Ogre Kingdoms. Now to be exact the territory I'm talking about is northwest of cathay, southeast of Kurgan territory and east of the Ogre Kingdoms Mountainridges. It's still called the Eastern Steppes(well the western part of it today is inhabited by Hobgobs but the east for me is still Ungol country believe it or not).;)
Kurgan and Hung could be barbarians but I don't really want them as seperate civs(we already got Norsca independent and who else then should form the Hordes of chaos?).

Edit:
Here's an inoffical diplomatic map I think we could use where GW just has blank spots.
http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/w/warhammer.htm

well your map refrences could be a bit better its east of Kurgan territory and North/North East of Cathay, and North East of the Ogre Kingdoms.. :P but i see what your getting at... So in the bulge North East of Cathay (that is roughly corrospondant to Korea in our world and the East Coast running a bit inland..? So Korea and the Pacific Coast of Russia in our world?

That map has the right idea... it might not be 100% accurate... but i dont see why there cant be an anti chaos line running across the North of the Ogre Kingdoms and the north of Cathay... with Ungols running east of the Great bastion (not quite touching it, Cathay needs chaos to attack it..), and with the Hobgoblins running north of the Ogre Kingdoms to the North of the Dark Lands...

(this isnt Canon.... :P but i get your point...)

The Hordes of Chaos btw are mostly Kurgans... with such large territory to cover... it would seem logical to split it into a couple of different powers... the 4 tribes of chaos... they all attack different things and with the +religion bonus etc they would never go to war... but i dont see 2 chaos civs covering all of the wastes...

i personally would rather have the Hung in the East instead of Ungols and Kurgan in the West.

starts blinking... Ungols in the west? were talking about the furtherest east you can go... but i agree splitting chaos into 4 would be a good idea to much waste to cover otherwise :D

Keep in mind waste is waste. Not many profitable cities to build there and chaos will probably work similar to Kuriotates in FFH - having a couple of huge spawningspool cities and else only settlements(+gateways) with limited productionabilities(Marauders, beastmen etc. but no hard stuff).
Ungols would be nice working like Mongols in the Warlordsscenario on the other hand...
So we have a large area where there won't be any real cities but plenty of space for Barbarianspawning.(Isuppose the great wall should be a Cathayunique wonder;))

Sorry to say this Ploeperpengel cant just be waste... how can chaos have the ability to have such large armies of men..

Hung are mongols/huns, Ungols are not evil they are nomads but they are not in the habbit of attacking cities burning them down and massacaring the population of said cities and they dont do that on the scale with which Chaos operates... Ungols do build cities, Erangrad, Kislev City, Praag those are Ungol cities even in troll country there are Ungol trading towns (sure they dont inhabbit them much but they can build cities), Mongols built towns and cities its not right to say that cant they just dont often choose to...

Chaos dont build cities... thats right.... in part Norse make trading cities (Norse and Norsca are different, one is a tribe of Chaos (Norse) the other worships a mix of Chaos and there own gods (Norsca are different from Norse) , not all of the tribes of Chaos are nomads, Norse are raiders but they build settlements, Kurgans are semi nomadic, some in the far North are totally Nomadic (there isnt enough fodder to justify staying in a single spot), some Kurgans in the South are sedentary they make Towns and Settlements not on a scale with say the empire, there isnt the population density to justify it, but there is still a large population spread over a large area... thats all...

Hung on the other hand are Nomads because there isnt enough fodder to feed there horses simple

However and i must stress this there must be a large population in the "Wastes" otherwise how can they possibly invade Kislev and the Empire. The Empire has the largest population in the Old World and is the most powerful state in the old world by a fair bit... how can a small population check Kislev and attack the Empire? overwhelming Castles through human wave tactics? charging gun lines? and attacking the full might of the Empire with a small army?... there needs to be infrastructure and a large population to justify this sort of behaviour...

If they have a couple of large spawning pools(maybe one for each chaos god) (cities that work 3 tiles radius and demonic units which won't cost any upkeep and are conjured and spawned not build I DO think they might be able to get an army, we also can make their beastmen and marauders quite cheap to build as well- and the latter will be buildable in settlements too btw).
And - if we're already talking about supporting armies with food in another thread we too could think as well about supporting cities with food. What about all excess food settlements can produce is automatically traded to the cities by traderoutes?

Beastmen are fairly rare in the wastes there are not all that many forests there which predacludes beastmen as a viable thing, Mauraders and Maurders Horsemen would be the primary part of a chaos army... but i will stress that the bulk of the chaos army are men demons really only act in a support role.. there to fragile to really use as the sole part of the army.. being demons they have problems with holding on the mortal world...

An small idea for the Tombkings:

Tombking-general units cannot be killed, like the immortal units in FFH2, they reincarnate at their capital.

Maybe they CAN be destroyed by HighPriests or HighMages.

Same for Nagash.
He could be an Immortal Hero, created when the 'Cult of Nagash' is founded.
'Cult of Nagash' is founded by the great 'undead-curse nationalwonder' which also Necrefies the NEHEKHARA nation.
If he is killed, The nation descends into anarchy for a turn.
Nagash can only be destroyed by razing the black pyramid WWonder.

He may abandon the nation if the statereligion is not his cult.

start a new thread on it.. this is meant to be then summary thread... :D