Following the discussion in the Great General Uses (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=201561) thread I decided to start a game in which to explore different ways of using the Great Generals. This first game will feature a Charismatic leader (Churchill of England) and the following conditions:

Start Conditions
Map Type: Pangaea (lots of opponents to choose from)
Map Size: Standard
Game Speed: Normal
Difficulty Level: Monarch (it's my current level, and I'm sure with your help we won't have any problems beating it)
Barbarians: enabled, normal (not raging)
Victory Conditions: all enabled, but I'll be trying to win by Domination or Conquest

I'll probably branch this into more than one game when we get our first Great General to compare the different uses.

Here are links to the rounds already played
Round 1: 4000BC - 2680BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=1#5)
Round 2: 2680BC - 1200BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=2#25)
Round 3: 1200BC - 150AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=3#41)
Round 4: 150AD - 980AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=3#55)
Round 5: 980AD - 1420AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=4#64)
Round 6: 1420AD - 1595AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=5#82)
Round 7: 1595AD - 1720AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=5#87)
Round 8: 1720AD - 1916AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=5#90)
Round 9: 1916AD - 1960AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202663&page=5#97)


Here's the starting position:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Churchill-Startposition.jpg

Looks like quite a city if we settle in place. We have three food resources - rice, banana and clams -, two wine tiles (a winery gives +1 food so they're food neutral), a forested plains hill and a lake. Good thing we're Charismatic as we'll need all the happiness in the world to work all those good tiles.

The opening will probably be: settle in place, build Work Boat using the forested hill, then warrior until size 2, then worker, all of this while researching Bronze Working (lots of whipping envisioned) followed by Agriculture. Mysticism will have to come in there somewhere for Stonehenge/Monuments (more inclined toward Monuments, I don't really want Great Prophet points). I'll take any advice and you're all free to play along or ahead but please don't post any spoilers.

You're almost forced to build in place. Moving the settler will cost turns. What tech's does churchill start out with? I don't where to find that info (either on the civilopedia or here). I agree with you build order. With any luck that goody hut will pop a scout.

This city looks like a good place to pop great scientists. I'd really consider being the first to liberalism. Pop nationhood, research gunpowder, use a scientist for printing press and get to rifling asap. You can drafting redcoats in short order. That's looking very far ahead, obviously.

With any luck you'll have a neighbor close by for an early war plus less focus on building settlers yourself. Looking forward to seeing the lay of the land.

settle in place.

bronze-ag. then anhusb if no copper. if copper probably better to go for wheel. if you need early border popping then go myst, but if you can hold out until libraries or a religion that would probably be better.

i would suggest that you try and war asap so that you can get your first GG as soon as possible. and i would suggest that you use it on a medic3 unit to see how powerful that can be early on. alternatively, you could use it to promote a bunch of 1-promotion units to 2-promotion units. i think those are the 2 best options early on and i would favour the medic option.

You're almost forced to build in place. Moving the settler will cost turns. What techs does Churchill start out with? I don't where to find that info (either on the civilopedia or here). I agree with you build order. With any luck that goody hut will pop a scout.

This city looks like a good place to pop great scientists. I'd really consider being the first to liberalism. Pop nationhood, research gunpowder, use a scientist for printing press and get to rifling asap. You can drafting redcoats in short order. That's looking very far ahead, obviously.

With any luck you'll have a neighbor close by for an early war plus less focus on building settlers yourself. Looking forward to seeing the lay of the land.

Churchill starts with Fishing and Mining, that's why I can build a Fishing Boat right away and also research Bronze Working. (vanilla civilizations (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations/), Warlords civilizations (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/warlords/))

Good points about scientists and being first to liberalism. That's why I said 'no Stonehenge', at least not in the capital. And I definitely want the Great Library there, but probably no other early wonders. Don't worry about looking too far ahead, I like to do that too. :D

settle in place.

bronze-ag. then anhusb if no copper. if copper probably better to go for wheel. if you need early border popping then go myst, but if you can hold out until libraries or a religion that would probably be better.

i would suggest that you try and war asap so that you can get your first GG as soon as possible. and i would suggest that you use it on a medic3 unit to see how powerful that can be early on. alternatively, you could use it to promote a bunch of 1-promotion units to 2-promotion units. i think those are the 2 best options early on and i would favour the medic option.

Yeap, if copper's close I'll go for the wheel. I've had my share of games that ended before they began due to 2-3 barbs attacking a newly founded city... :blush: Don't want that in my first online game! :D And for now there's no AH resource, so maybe we can skip that for later. Maybe even go for Archery to protect our future captured cities? Eh, there's time. :)

By the way, monuments are also good for the +1 happiness which we'll most likely need to counter-balance all those wars. But I guess we'll see where and if we really need them.

Will see about the Great General. I've used Medic 3 in quite a few games, but apart from some really early ones I haven't used the 'promoting lots of units' option. This will probably be the first branch, if useful of course.

Round 1: 4000BC - 2680BC

A little exploring, a little teching, a little meeting our neighbors.

First things first: as decided I settled in place and...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/01HolyCow.jpg

Holy Cow! We now have 6 resource tiles in the capital. Marvelous, what can I say? That means AH becomes a pretty high priority. I still decided to go for Bronze Working first, what with all the potential whipping. By the way, the capital's hut gave us 33 gold. Meh, could have been better.

Our warrior started going in a big circle West-North-East with the second one projected to go South. Soon we had a revelation: we might be in the middle of the Universe and also able to block civs from one side and the other! (look at the minimap) Talk about feeling important...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/02CenterofUniv.jpg

Our crappy hut luck continued and we got a map for our efforts, revealing Egypt to the NE (it later turned out to be Hatty). We'll have to look for other victims or make sure she doesn't have horses if we decide to attack her. Those War Chariots are really gonna eat us otherwise.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/03MapEgypt.jpg

We then finished Bronze Working and... nada. Zilch. No copper in sight. Oh well, since I was going for AH anyway for the cows, let's add the ponies as a goal. Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry it is for our research. In the meantime I decided to finish building the Warrior (2 turns) as my first one had to heal from a panther attack, then go into slavery and start on a worker. He'll have lots of juicy improvements to make, and later will have to pave the roads to horse city, wherever that will be.

Other victims... err... neighbors started popping up. Genghis Khan's scout got to us from SE, we saw a bit of Hannibal and Shaka to the E and Ragnar - don't know where, must have been a scout coming in and out of our range. There's one more hidden AI most probably W or NW.

Here's the complete list:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/08Neighbors.jpg

As you can see I chopped a forest to speed up the settler and also because I wanted to keep the worker near the cows and had two turns to spare.

Our Southern warrior popped another hut for... another warrior. Gah! Could we get something useful, perhaps a scout, or more gold? Or dare I say a tech?! I don't think so... We're probably done with huts, though by the end of the round we had 4 warriors, 3 of which were wandering outside our borders.

Now for the fun part. AH finished and revealed three horses, however none of them is in a very good position for us. Oh, we can get the south one for sure, but that won't make a grand city. Payback for our magnificent capital? On the other hand there's Ivory E of London, indicating us to go for Construction and War Elephants. As if we needed that indication. ;)

Here's the discovered land so far:

North:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/04North.jpg

East:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/06East.jpg

South:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/07South.jpg

West:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/05West.jpg


I stopped here. Next research is probably the Wheel, to connect London to horse city. The only problem is, I'm not yet decided where to put horse city. Next to Hannibal is out of the question. North has lots of Jungle maybe good for cottages, maybe going to pop Iron there. South horse has two deserts nearby and lots of water tiles. Not my ideal choice for a second city. Or maybe we can go for Hunting -> Archery and settle near the ivory? Probably too extreme, but I'm open for suggestions.

Looks like Shaka to the East? If so, that is trouble. Your best bet would be to expand thataway and take him out prior to him getting powerful. He's an unstoppable force when he gets rolling...

I never skip anhusb. At the very least you want to reveal the horses resource to help with ideal city placement. Horses are a high-production tile.

Seems like ironworking is really important this game. Lots of jungle.

You have ivory though, so here is what I suggest:

-You don't have copper or a horse-based UU so an early attack is out. You have Shake (seemingly) to the east, which spells trouble. You have ivory to the east.

-After settling horse city for barb defence, beeline construction and settle either one E of the ivory or two E of the ivory depending on what further scouting reveals to the NE of the ivory. Then use elephants and catapults to take out Shaka, razing if you can't afford to keep the cities. You must limit him. He's worse than Monty imo. Less of a psycho, but more powerful imo. I've had him vassalize all 3 civs on his continent before :yikes:

-Hatty is easy to get along with and no threat really once her early power period is over. Once war chariots are outdated and the early power of creative tapers off you can take her out. If she expands toward you, you could take her out with elephants and catapults. That combo is very powerful and has a very long lifespan. You only need fear a civ with engineering really. And by that time you should be able to mix in some maces and xbows to help with that.

I was thinking today, what about using your first TWO GGs on medic 3 units. Basically, then develop two SoD and rampage through an enemy empire. You could sack cities and heal quickly at a very rapid pace. Ideally, you would surprise the civ and take 4 cities (2 per stack) before they could mount a counter-offensive or substantial defence.

Wow. You've got a lot of nice real estate. Popping the cow in the BFC was very nice. Now the city with another decent hammer tile of which there are few.

My initial thought is to secure that ivory. I like the idea of building a city 2N and 1E of the cows. You'll secure the gems, ivory, and the two cities will share the cow. I think that provides nice flexibility for building in both cities early. Once the capital is up and going, I think you'll be able to dedicate the cow to the second city until bureaucracy, and I'd take it back for the +50% hammer output. With a forge and Organized religion, that'll be six hammers, no?

Another alternative is to build 4E of London, share the cows and rice, while securing the ivory and build a third city 3N of the cows to secure the second bananas and the gems.


However, you still need to work in a city for the horses on the peninsula, which is arguably more important than blanketing the area east of London with your cultural borders from North to South keeping hatty and hannibal out if you so desire.

My preference for the horse city would be 2N of the horses. The reason I like this spot is because you will share a few water squares with London. I think most view non financial civs working non resource water tiles as a bad thing. And while, the horse city will have a lot of water tiles, at least there is some overlap. On the plus side, it looks like they will all be 2F, 2C with a lighthouse.

The other factor here is city build order. Seems like that horse peninsula is pretty safe. Thus I would try to build my 4th or 5th city down there, however, you need the horses else you are going to have to get archery and skip an early war. Since there is no copper, you are skipping an early war anyway. I thinking hunting, archery, settlers, and scouting is key to get your cities in the best possible places. You can be there is going to be iron close by, the question is where (horse peninsula, close to the gold).

Speaking of the gold, I like the idea of a city 1W or 1NW of the gold so you'll nab the sugar, which can be farmed once you have iron working. You can always switch it to a plantation later but the extra food is nice early. You should have enough happiness (or does sugar add health?).

Last thing, if you decide to build north and south, 1S of the horses up north by the bananas and clams might also be a good city spot. However, it's in the jungle and should be available to you for a while. My guess is a barb city will spawn up there.

Forget hunting and archery. You have chariots. Active barb defense ftw.

Forget hunting and archery. You have chariots. Active barb defense ftw.

While that would usually be my mantra as well, It always bugs me to build an early city somewhere when the turf is going to be available for quite a while. I like to build towards my neighbors and backfill to obvious locations later. The horse city makes the most sense now but I don't see CC being to build east of the ivory if the horse city is built second. It appears to me that hannibal, shaka and hatty are east of london.

I don't know, if I were playing I would take the horse city first, and keep a scout/warrior around the ivory. If someone settled there, I would mass chariots and take it from them if necessary. But I think you should be able to get it. No one is really close to that spot.

Pretty much I always settle a military resource with 2nd city. It sucks that it's in that location this game, I agree. But it's too much of a waste to research hunting-archery. So many other important things that need to be researched asap.

With that ivory there we want construction as fast as humanly possible.

In the end, I agree with you and would do the same thing. I loathe having to research archery. It's also a bummer to waste a settler in a location that will be available for a long time. The lesser of two evils I suppose, copper and/or horses need to be in your second city. I would think that iron will be readily available.

Yes, I imagine there will be iron as well. However, I don't think we need it for military since we can do elephants and catapults (nothing stands up to that really). Ironworking will be nice to clear away all the jungle though. I imagine we could get iron by trade.

The only time I will consider researching archery is this:

1) No copper, no horses

2) Not enough forests to chop GW.

If there are enough forests to chop the GW, I'll just research masonry and chop it and build in peace using warriors as a garrison. I'll beeline construction, trading for iron and secure iron. From there I'll use mostly catapults with a few axes/spears for stack defence and swords for mopping up.

I'd go with the 2N from the south horses site first, but I'm concerned by the fact that I'll need a Monument to get the horses. Maybe if I move my worker with my settler there and start chopping right away? That would mean going for Mysticism first. Ugh... I just thought that with the worker gone there I won't have a worker in the capital anymore.

Alternative sites:
- 1NW of the horses (on one of the deserts) with instant access to clams and horses. I could even build a boat in the capital and move it there right away. It's not like I'll have anything to build for now after the Settler. This would let me get away from Mysticism for a while to get what?
- 1 NE of the horses, getting the fish and forgoing the clams; the fish will still need a border pop.

So, research path: if 2N or 1NE of horses, probably Mysticism first, then Wheel. If 1NW of horses, then the Wheel followed by Pottery and Writing (whip both Granary and later Library) sounds good. By the way, there's now a jungle on the bananas. Drat...

futurehermit, are you saying we should build the GW or that you'd build it IF you have no copper & horses? I'd really keep the GP pool going for GSs. :)

I think he was referring to his games. As you have horses, skip the GW. What if you built stonehenge in the horses/clam city. Or, might even make more sense to chop stonehenge for a horses/fish city. The culture from those two cities will eventually engulf the crab tile giving you all three seafood sources. This means health will not be much of a problem and happiness is grand with a charismatic leader. Very promising in terms of growth.

Whipping is going to be painful because it is unlikely your cities will get too unhappy. Too bad that stone is out of reach or the pyramids might have been viable.

I would continue teching along and building chariots and expanding. You've also got gems and gold to contribute to happiness/research.

With a start like this, I prefer to use the oracle for metal casting and trade for iron working. either way, that's a pretty important tech since copper is not immediately visible.

Wondering where copper will show up. If that another peninsula to the SW? There are also some unexplored tiles to the NE.

I think he was referring to his games. As you have horses, skip the GW. What if you built stonehenge in the horses/clam city. Or, might even make more sense to chop stonehenge for a horses/fish city. The culture from those two cities will eventually engulf the crab tile giving you all three seafood sources. This means health will not be much of a problem and happiness is grand with a charismatic leader. Very promising in terms of growth.

I actually don't need another clam that much, since I have one in the capital already, but there's still the matter of what tiles to work on that second city. If it's set 1NW it has two early good tiles. Let's face it, it will never be a great city, but ivory-gems, gold, and Northern horse could turn out quite well. Plus, two capitals (Shaka's and Hannibal's) nearby mean another two good sites. So second city will get the horses some way and that's it.

Whipping is going to be painful because it is unlikely your cities will get too unhappy. Too bad that stone is out of reach or the pyramids might have been viable.

I'm not really worried about whipping. I'll have enough food to grow pretty fast. And that's why I want the Granary very early in the capital, so I could grow even faster. I'm thinking of putting Sailing on the research lists for lighthouses too.

I would continue teching along and building chariots and expanding. You've also got gems and gold to contribute to happiness/research.

With a start like this, I prefer to use the oracle for metal casting and trade for iron working. either way, that's a pretty important tech since copper is not immediately visible.

Hmm, wonders. I'd say if I go for an early one it's either Stonehenge or the Oracle, definitely not both. Too many Great Prophet points and going with a religion will not help this much on Pangaea since I'll be in contact with all the civs. But if I have what to build I'd still forgo both and go for Maths & Construction while getting out some more cities. I'll want Calendar (bye-bye Stonehenge) for bananas and sugar and going all the way to Priesthood for the Oracle seems kind of a waste of time.

Wondering where copper will show up. If that another peninsula to the SW? There are also some unexplored tiles to the NE.

I think there are some big landmasses both E and W. I'll try to explore more, but probably not with the warriors. I'll need Hunting for elephants anyway, so I'll probably build some scouts or use some extra chariots for the job. I do hope we have Iron nearby though. I bet all the other civs will have copper... Maybe I'll take one from them. :D

In regards to the clam, etc... I meant you've got a clam and crab in the bay of your capital. The fish is off to the east of the southerly horses. Get the fish with the horses city and the culture from those two cities will grab the crab south of your capital (though the crab will not be in either BFC, you'll still get the health bonus). Coupled with the happiness from charismatic, you'll be set for growth.

Since calendar will be a priority, you might skip stonehenge and monuments. Perhaps if a religion makes it way to you or found one, convert for the happiness.

I'm an oracle addict and I find it difficult to avoid building. It would be a habit I might be wise to wean myself of. All those turns of teching to priesthood might be better spent elsewhere. Since metal casting is so expensive, I usually justify the turns spent on mysticism, meditation, priesthood in the early game worth it for the oracle and the metal casting technology. Plus it has great trade value.

Nevermind, I thought the south thing was a clam too. :D Should have looked before I talked. As for the fish, there could be iron there somewhere, and 2N of the fish seems an ok site too for a later city... Hehe, I love starting positions, they're worse than playing chess with all those possibilities! Lol.

It's very true of Oracle for Metal Casting, but lately I'm doing the slingshot only if I have something specific in mind: like forges for an Industrious civ, or Cho-Ko-Nu's for the Chinese, stuff like that, or if I manage to get a religion while going for Priesthood. Plus I need all the forests I can save for the Great Library. There's no marble nearby so I'll need to build it without bonuses.

Definitely don't build GW. Only build it if NO horses AND NO copper AND sufficient forests to chop. :)

The fish tile will give more food, but less commerce, so maybe the other seafood is better for the horse city, and it allows horses to be hooked up without border expansion = good.

Ok.... new development: there's copper near Shaka and Hatty and I've just completed my Settler. I have two warriors on the way to an eventual copper site to protect me from panthers and such, but I'm really not sure I'd make it there. I mean, we're talking about 5 turns to get there, found city on the 6th. Don't think it's worth the risk...

On second thought, I just checked the log: none of Shaka, Hannibal and Hatty have adopted Slavery, and only Hannibal start with mining. How likely is it that they don't know there's copper there?!

Pros: nobody seems to know about the copper yet, close to Shaka -> fast attack on him

Cons: I might get beaten to the site and then I'm just a sitting duck for barbs. I'd have to backtrack for an ivory site then use the next settler for horses; in a competition with Hatty I'd lose the cultural war anyway; maintenance will be high, plus hard to build and maintain link with capital and hard to bring units from the capital in the attack.

Seems like too many cons.

I think that is too far away. However, you can the copper, corn, dye, and ivory in one city. Very nice. There will be a lot of cultural pressure and you'll need a monument quickly. Plus, it'll need more culture because of hatty. With some settler spam, there is a lot of nice turf.

Of course, the safe play is to settle close to home and build a nice network of cities and have some confidence iron is nearby.

You wanted an early war, you can certainly have it. Since you need hunting for the camp, you can always protect your axes with some spears.

After a couple of computer crashes I managed to finish round 2. Not very eventful, but then again, we're still in the early phases. Will post the update soon.

Hope you built 1 NW of the corn if you went that direction. I would've suggested building the horse site with 1 warrior (they suck) and then scout the copper/ivory/corn/dye site with chariots. Claim that as 3rd city. Attack Shaka with axes in round one while beelining construction. Finish him off in round two with elephants and catapults.

I really can't think of a better approach to the opening of this game than that.

Nope, went for horses, then elephant & borrowed cows site. I think I could have gone for the copper, but the logistics just killed my joy. I just finished uploading the screenshots to photobucket and I'm starting to write down the report. A little patience and you'll see how it all turned out. :)

Will work I guess, but I think the including copper site was better.

Looking forward to the update.

Round 2: 2680BC - 1200BC

Early in this round we found the missing AI. Or rather he found us. It's happy Buddhist Huayna. We also found something else, namely copper. Our settler was completed on the same turn, but I decided not to go for the site. It would be really far from the capital, needing protected roads, killing us with the maintenance, etc.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/09Copper.jpg

So Southern Horse it is. I escorted the Settler and the Worker (who just finished pasturing the cows) to 1NW of the horses. On the next turn York was founded and the worker started bringing in the horses right away.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/10York.jpg

In the meantime London was building a Workboat for York's use, and York started on a Worker of its own. Once the horses were linked the two workers would connect York and London by road.
Soon something that would affect later plans happened:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/11Hinduism.jpg

Genghis Khan converted to Hinduism. I expected Shaka to follow suit soon and for things to become really messed up, but as you'll see aggressiveness has its uses. I then timed things so that the Workboat would finish on the same turn with London reaching size 3, then started on another Settler. I decided now to go for 2N1E from the capital's cows, using them to quickly build a Library and get the Ivory within our borders. This city would also neatly block the world's two "hemispheres", but that won't probably help us as much as I thought at first.

And thus a couple of turns later Nottingham was founded and started on a Library right away.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/13Nottingham.jpg

York built some Chariots as I didn't want our game to end before it began. London was preparing for its glorious future by adding a Granary and a Library. Since I won't be building too many units until cats/War Elephants I'll probably use the two Scientists provided by the Library for most of the time.

And then something happened that left me really puzzled. Shaka moved an Archer and a Settler toward the copper site. I was sure he'd found a city there, but that wouldn't have been very puzzling, would it? :D He either changed plans or got eaten by some barbs, but the thing is he never founded that city.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/14Shaka.jpg

On the other hand, he converted to Hinduism too. Now we have 3 AIs with it: Hannibal (the founder), Genghis Khan and Shaka. And no one closing in from the West... I just hoped those elephants would do the job, as we were facing multiple possible backstabbers...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/15Hinduismpart2.jpg

I ended the round in 1200BC. Nottingham finished the Library and is going to claim the ivory in 5 turns. We have a worker there building a mine who will connect the ivory next. It's not going to be a great tile to work though until we have Iron Working and clear that jungle. The gems are going to wait for that too.

London finished both the Granary and the Library. I'll probably dump the overflow into a Settler, then build a turn of a Chariot to get it to size three, then continue with the Settler for a city claiming gold. Speaking of which, any idea where it should go? There are a couple of barbarian cities around there, so we might have to put it into a less than optimal location. I'm really wondering if we can skip it altogether and just wait to claim other cities through war.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/17Gold.jpg

York is going to get a shiny new Granary too, probably a Library also. I'm not very fond of building Chariots like crazy, so I'd rather get to Construction early and then start on the real thing.

And our target seems to be Hannibal after all. After Shaka's inexplicable feint at copper city Hannibal decided to take it for himself. Fortunately Shaka can be bribed to go to war with him, once I get Alphabet of course. Hence the earlier comment about aggressiveness being useful. He doesn't really know his friends, does he? I'm hoping to get the Khan in the same position, that's why I think I'll open the borders for both of them. It's not like they're going to build any cities that far from their capitals anyway.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/18Hannibal.jpg

By the way, if you're wondering why I didn't explore more, it's because those lousy warriors aren't much use when exploring. I'll wait for a few Chariots, maybe that will earn them a couple of promotions and I can get one to be a medic. With the two western barbarian cities I'll surely see lots of action soon enough.

Research-wise we got Hunting in the bag and we're going for Math -> Masonry -> Construction. I'll probably pre-chop a few forests to prepare them for Elephant spawning. With Math in we'll get the full value for those forests. I'm also thinking of keeping a couple of them in the capital to get the Great Library later on. We might fail though (getting Math & Construction first may prove too much), but at least we'll unlock Heroic Epic and National Epic. Notice that I skipped Mysticism completely, but we'll need it and Polytheism for Literature. No Monuments though, so we don't have to worry about Calendar obsoleting them.

So, decisions to make for the next round:
- where to put gold city?
- what to research? I'm thinking Alphabet after Construction.
- should we go for Great Library?
- who to attack? I see Hannibal as the prime target, but if anyone disagrees I'll reconsider.

CC,

Some world map screenshots would help. I think it is key to know who is off to your west. There is no pressure whatsoever from that side. Wonder if those barbarian cities are keepers. You don't the AI snagging them from you.

It's only 1200 BC so I don't know if I'd be in a rush for a fourth city, however, it would a have gold mine so it will pay for itself. But you'll need to work that sugar tile, which is jungle covered, in order to work the gold. I try to get my fourth city established around 400 BC.

If you do any warring in the east, you're going to need to bring some culture with you, otherwise borders will get ugly (especially with Hatty around). You could consider making a run at drama and music. If you were to capture a couple of nice cities to the east and then raze some of it's neigborhing cities, followed by a culture bomb, you'd secure yourself a nice piece of real estate to work with. Tensions will be high will four civs so close to one another.

To answer your end-post questions:

I think earlier I stated 1W of the gold looked like a good city spot.
I would concur with researching alphabet
The Great Library is always a good idea
Hannibal makes the most sense. Perhaps raze those two cities east of nottingham and buld a city 1E of the corn?

1 NW, 1 W of the gold will net you two food tiles although it will require razing the barb city.

I'm always a fan of surplus food in cities. Without it, they just don't grow very well.

Great library = good.

The thing about Hannibal's city is that I could imagine Hatty culture-flipping it at some point...

I would wait to see where Shaka builds. I'd still rather attack him rather than let him get powerful and then he dogpiles on you after you declare on Hannibal. That would not be fun. Yes, if you can bribe him in, that's good, but you won't be joining the hindu contingent, I imagine you would join the buddhist contingent. And Shaka is Hindu so that might make keeping a collar on him difficult...

Here are a couple of world screenshots, one detailing resources, the other one with the cultural layer.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/R2_Resources.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round2/R2_Culture.jpg

As you can see there's no one closing in from the West now, but Ragnar and Huayna are surely there. Genghis becoming Hindu and his initial scouting direction means he's near Shaka and Hannibal. That puts 4 AIs to the west, 2 to the east.

By the way, I'll explore more with my next chariots. I've decided that York doesn't need a library - crappy city as it is - and will go on and whip Chariots for exploring after the Granary is done. I'll get back to developing it later.

As for Gold city, I'd really like the 1N2W location, but going with Chariots against fortified Archers to raze the barbarian city isn't a very good bet. Even with Combat I a Chariot will have 4.4 strength, while the Archer will pile up its natural defense and fortification bonus to amount to more than 5 strength. I'll need quite a few chariots to pull it off. On the other hand I don't have much else to build... I think of switching to Barracks -> Chariots in London too and build the settler only later. I hope 6 chariots will do the job - I'm expecting something like two base archers plus one possibly popping up just when I get there (optimist, I know ;) ) so a 2:1 ratio should take the city.

Hannibal's Copper city will be razed and replaced with mine 1E (or 1N?) of the corn. And since his southern city will lose the corn it won't be of much use either. I'll have to go for what I hope is the capital next to take a good spot, than backfill with a city or two.

Also, on the diplomatic front there's something else I forgot to check before: Hatty won't go to war with anyone yet, but the reasons for each are different. She says she doesn't like me enough to go to war with Hannibal. I'm thinking of opening borders to her and at the appropriate moment bringing her in the mix too. She's unlikely to beat me to the two closest cities anyway (but I'll have to have a settler ready to rebuild) and this will earn me some more + points with her. Maybe she'll be my ally against the likes of Shaka and Genghis. I'll have to think if I'm bringing Shaka in, as he's close to Hannibal's other cities. I don't want him taking the capital. Unfortunately the only other option is for him to go against Hatty (don't like it) or against Huayna, with which I plan to trade a lot, seeing the distance to him.

So: open borders with Huayna, Ragnar, Hatty, maybe even Shaka for now. How does that sound?

Well this will be interesting, the starting citys will bring you military but not mutch money nor food. Hanibals citys is realy whacky, I don't think he will be any problem taking out with WE.

I'm thinking in the past now, maybe i'm mr stupid but wasn't 1 NW of the corn the ultimate position for York?
you could have brought a worker to pre-shoop the grasland/forest/hill 1 SW during reserch mystesism. and when mystesim where finnished chop it to gain a monument. you shod have had seven jungles and two forest left in York. that whod have brougt you 1.75 unhealth from jungle - 1 health from forests = 0,75 unhealth for that city. At that moment you whod have crab, rice, cow and corn witch is 4 health = 3,25 health + 2H on monarch = 5,25H in York before IW.

that whod have made a late CC and early PC. chopper grasland 2F 3P, two mined grasland hills 1F 3P * 2. City 2F 1P 1C, corn not irigated 5F and ivory in jungle with camp 1F 2P.

this gives production 12 and food 12 when stagnated at sice 5.
york whod then get axes (35P) out in 2,91 turns. werry good for a early city and not to far away from London ether.

dragomaster, you're right about that copper city. That's what futurehermit suggested too (see his first post on this page) but I chickened out. :) I told myself I'd go for War Elephants as fast as I can and forget about the copper for now. Feel free to play the game from the initial save and go that route if you want. Heck, I might do it myself after I finish this! :D

I'm not very concerned about money. I'll use scientists for research for now, and if necessary I'll built parts of the Great Wall and the Pyramids (I need Masonry for Construction) to get more money to support the early war. Capturing a couple of cities after that will help too. And once I get Ironworking and Monarchy I'll have the Gems and the two Wines online, that will bring some commerce in. Nottingham will probably get some cottages too, though I'm not sure. I might go for a full Specialist Economy, I haven't decided that yet. That will go well with my policy of "always war" because it will keep me on the offensive just to get enough gold to support myself. :D

I like your plan.

Hanibal, you will be the first to feel our war elephants. You masterd to come to rome but never attacked it, our war elephants will capure your citys so take this to acount, maybe you'l learn something.

and bring a settler and settle on the spot i talked about, after rasing bouth citys of hannibal.

Edit* a gold city is an objective aswell, try to grab it before its to late.
i dont think the barbs will be any trouble if you bring a WC, farm one sugar after IW and one plantage after callendar
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/69073/goldcity.JPG

Edit 2* after looking more closly this city is awsome, one faremd suggar gives you 5F meaning this city is anouther greate CC. jungle starts is greate realy. hard att the beginning but awsome later.

I like your plan.

Hannibal, you will be the first to feel our war elephants. You mastered to come to rome but never attacked it, our war elephants will capure your citys so take this to acount, maybe you'l learn something.

and bring a settler and settle on the spot i talked about, after rasing bouth citys of hannibal.

Edit* a gold city is an objective aswell, try to grab it before its to late.

Hehe, we're gonna feed Hannibal his own medicine, eh? :D

By the way, if you've followed the discussion you'll see it has been suggested to build copper city 1E of the corn (I also talked about 1N). The ivory's already in Nottingham's range, and I'm not sure it would be very useful to share those tiles between the two cities. What do you think?

I'm a bit worried about tech trades though. the AI is notorious for going for Maths, so that's out of the question. Maybe Construction to Hatty, Huayna and Ragnar since they won't be our enemies anytime soon? Literature too once we get the Great Library. We'll see...

Take gold city after ironworking comes on board. You won't be able to develop it until then anyways. Beeline construction and you can raze the barb city with elephants instead of chariots ;)

I guess Hannibal has to be first, which sucks!!! But, hopefully we can do it fast enough that we can jump on Shaka before he gets too strong...Maybe you can bribe him as suggested against Hannibal and then backstab him while he's still engaged with Hannibal :lol:

Roger that. Construction -> Hannibal -> Gold city it is. Gold city will go on the spot that gets the two sugars too since everybody agrees on that, and we'll get it with some War Elephants.

Now Hannibal have acces to numidians, but nothing good realy cous WE crush them, a little worry about pikes to. Try to explore his lands to see if he have more chopper. those is the moste danguros answer against WE realy. and Impis is not good to war against so try to explore. strength 4 + 100% ws mounted = 8 strength. try to be friend with Zulu for awhile.

spears don't do that great vs. elephants (although they are cost effective). pikes don't come for awhile. hopefully that's hannibal's only source of metal :lol:

anyways, assuming we hit him hard and fast he'll be crushed. nothing stands up to elephants and catas early on. collateral dmgd spears die to elephants just like everything else does :lol:

it's possible that we could keep that barb city depending on what further scouting reveals...

So there's a third barb city N and/or W of you. I noticed the third city in dragonmasters post with the BFC for the 'gold' city. I'd get a chariot scout on each of those barb cities. It would be unfortunate if the AI came along and captured the city when your planning on razing it.

There is little cultural pressure over there. I don't know if it is because of the jungle or not. I've noticed the AI doesn't usually care and will gladly plop down a city in the jungle very early, probably before they have iron working.

OFFTOPIC:

Hey, CC, could you tell me how to get the pictures to display full-size like that? I'm using imageshack and can't seem to get them to display large :(

Thks!

I've finished the round but it's been quite a long one, so I'll post the update tomorrow. It gets depressing to be in contact with everybody and constantly be last in score. But we got our war... and some things changed. In around 12 hours you'll see what. Stay tuned. :D

futurehermit, I use photobucket.com for the pictures. You can create albums, sub-albums, etc, and store your images there, then they give you a direct IMG link for each image. You just copy it and paste it in here and it gets displayed full-size.

Ok, I'll check out photobucket, thanks!

Round 3: 1200BC - 150AD

At the start of the round Huayna also founded Judaism and adopted Organized Religion. That will cause some problems as he's also Industrious and likely to go for some wonders, namely the Great Library. Didn't cross my mind until later though, so I made a bad move at one point. But let's not anticipate.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_01_Huayna_Org_Rel_Jud.jpg

I was wondering how come Hatty didn't convert to Hinduism. Well, she seemed to have her own plans: she founded Confucianism. This will make things really weird religion-wise. We'd have to be really careful who we trade with. Hatty, Huayna and Ragnar seemed the best choices so far, so I opened borders with them, hoping for improved relations. I also opened borders with Genghis Khan, for now, to see if we can use him as an unlikely ally in a war against one of his Hindu buddies.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_02_Hatty_Conf.jpg

In other news Shaka built the Great Wall. Not sure how or if this changes our future plans, but the screenshot was nice. :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_03_Shaka_Great_Wall.jpg

I checked and re-checked to see if anyone got Alphabet before us. Guess what: Hannibal was the culprit!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_04_Hannibal_Alph.jpg

He had quite a few techs on us, probably due to trade. Well, he'll be trimmed down soon anyway, nothing to worry there. :D I was more worried about him getting Construction, but he didn't have Elephants, so if he builds a couple of Catapults instead of Spearmen who am I to argue? Nevertheless I decided not to trade with him. We'll have other opportunities soon.

As soon as I finished Construction I switched my cities to war production. By the way Nottingham previously built part of the Great Wall, while York did the same with the Pyramids. We'd get quite a pile of money out of that, money we used to keep our research at a high pace.

As said, we started building War Elephants in London and Nottingham and Catapults in York. We were dead last in power but that would be corrected soon enough. And since I mentioned elephants, the only AI other than us that has them is Hatty. It will probably mean she'll be a future ally. If we can get her involved in a war with Shaka it would be just peachy.

Next on our tech list was the Alphabet. I maintained the two Scientists in London for the time being, but once I got Alphabet I switched them to production/food tiles. Here's the tech situation:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_05_Techs.jpg

We could get Ironworking from either Genghis or Hatty, but since Genghis was a projected victim, I decided on the latter. Unfortunately she's now the worst enemy of both Huayna and Ragnar (who won't trade with me at all), so I went to see Huayna first:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_06_Huayna_Trade.jpg

And a turn later I went to Hatty, hoping we'll get Polytheism too, to head for Literature. Alas, it wasn't to be! Despite Math having a greater value than Ironworking she only wanted to give us that tech for it. Or Meditation and Poly, but those could wait.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_07_Hatty_Math_Iron.jpg

So, now the big question? Do we have Iron or not? Oh... the Irony...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_08_The_Irony.jpg

Yeap, we settled on it. Drat. This is one of the very rare cases where you'd want a barb to come along and raze that city. Grassland Iron lost! Oh well, we'll have to endure that. It helped us build a couple of Axes later on, as Hannibal planted another city close to York, defended only by two Spearmen. Meanwhile our War Elephants started to stack at the Carthaginian border, toward which we also built some roads. Wait, what Carthaginian border?!?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_09_Where_Did_It_Go.jpg

Drat! Either Hannibal was dumb enough to lose the city to barbs, or, what's more likely, Hatty flipped it over! Arrrrgh! We'll need theaters online if we want to ward off Hatty's cultural pressure in the future. That, or Redcoats, whichever comes first. ;)

Now, remember the :smoke: move I told you about earlier? Check out this trade:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_10_Huayna_Trade.jpg

Yes, we get Calendar and Polytheism, but Huayna is one step closer to the Great Library. And with the capital's forests spent on War Elephants I'm really not sure we're going to get it. Oh well, we'll capture it later. :D

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

And then it was time for the dogs of war to show their teeth:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_11_WAR.jpg

Our first victim was the Southern city that I decided to keep. It has access to fish, it has a floodplain nearby, lots of forest and a river. Not capital estate but it will do.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_12_First_Victims.jpg

Utica was next. Remember the saying: no battle plan survives contact with the enemy? Well, as it turned out earlier, contact with the allies can also screw you up. Due to Hatty's cultural conquest we were left with keeping Utica. Not a bad city, of course, but it will have to really battle it out to claim and hold the corn. At least we got a plantation, another horse source and a granary inside the city.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_13_Utica.jpg

Then we encountered our first (and only, so far) Numidian Cavalry near Utica. Short-lived, as one of our War Elephants trampled it under its feet. The Spearmen who was defending the horses got destroyed by a lucky catapult who earned the Accuracy promotion.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_14_Numidian.jpg

Then we came up on Carthage and I started to wonder how the heck the power graph was calculated. See, so far we only lost a warrior who had been exploring Mongolian territory and got owned by a Carthaginian archer. And look at the poor defended Carthage itself:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_16_Carthage.jpg

That Chariot only earned one of the War Elephants another promotion. Then I patiently waited for all my troops to cross the river while the catapults were lowering the defenses. Aaaand of course Hannibal at that exact time choses to upgrade his archers to Longbows. I faced a choice: attack now after catapult bombardment, or wait more turns and spend a catapult for collateral damage. I was afraid Hannibal would pop some more Longbows in there, but I really overestimated him. No reinforcements came and, after a lucky catapult attack:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_18_Lucky_Cat.jpg

...and a lost War Elephant, Carthage was ours. Another nearby Chariot meant another promoted War Elephant. But why should I argue? :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_19_Fall_of_Carthage.jpg

The fall of Carthage also brought us our first Great General. Or is it Generaless?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_20_Great_Generaless.jpg

Since the whole point of the game is exploring Great General uses I decided to stop the round here. There are still units to move, build queues to decide, but I wanted to get a second opinion on those. I did not make peace with Hannibal yet but I'm seriously considering it. He has two more cities (don't know where one of them is though...) and he might just vassalize to someone else. We don't have Feudalism yet, so he can't come to us. His offer include Horseback Riding and 50 gold, but I haven't tested if he'd part with either Compass or Feudalism (highly unlikely).

Speaking of techs, we made some more trades during the war. We sold Currency to Hatty for Monarchy and gold, and we adopted Hereditary Rule afterward. Then we gave Ragnar Meditation for 160 gold. By now we have quite a full treasury, what with all the gold from conquered cities. This will help us maintain a high research rate as we go for Code of Laws and Bureaucracy.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_21_Hatty_Monarchy_Her_Rule.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_22_Meditation.jpg

We also got our Medic I unit in form of a Chariot who took on some barbs coming from the west. So the Medic III option is still open.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/R3_23_Medic.jpg

Another chariot was dispatched westward to discover the world, as our exploring warrior died earlier by the arrows of a barb archer. By the way, the west-most barbarian city was attacked by the Vikings. Our chariot will try to find if they kept it or razed it. In the second case we'll have to rush a settler there.

That's it for this round. The next post will contain the state of the world but you'll have to wait a bit for it as I don't have the screenshots yet.

Got 'distracted' by my parents. ;) Will post the state of the world in a few minutes.

State of the World: 150AD

Well, we're not last in score anymore. Hannibal took that spot. If we decide to go to war with Shaka he might follow suit.

One of the problems we've got so far is too few workers. We didn't capture any from Hannibal, so we're still with only two for 6 cities now. Fortunately York can whip the Lighthouse for one population than start a worker (we only have three useful tiles there anyway), and York will finish a War Elephant on the next turn and can start on a worker of its own. We're still building the Great Library in the capital at a veeeery slow pace though. I might consider whipping some things into it, like some protective archers, or a lighthouse or something. Otherwise at the current production rate we're never gonna finish it.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Builds.jpg

We're pretty low on overall production too, but we should get a little better once be improve our land a bit.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Man_Goods.jpg

We also don't have many friends. I've seen weird things in the relations department. Like AIs being annoyed with each other at +1 relations from years of peace as the only modifier. What gives?!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Relations.jpg

Anyway, while we got our War Elephants others have been busy with the early Wonders.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Wonders.jpg

No news of the Great Library yet, but some AIs already have Literature. And speaking of techs, here's our situation vis-a-vis some of our neighbors:

- we still have Literature on Huayna, and hopefully we'll finish Code of Laws before him

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Huayna.jpg

- Ragnar's a little behind but he won't trade with us so far, so we can't take advantage of that. I'll see if I can do something to change that.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Ragnar.jpg

- on the other side of the world, Shaka's pretty much on par with us. He doesn't have Alphabet but most civs have it so it doesn't matter that much. I might even trade it to him if I can get something in return. Right before I attack him...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Shaka.jpg

- Genghis is a bit of a problem. We have nothing on him and, to appease Hatty, we've canceled our Open Borders with him. We might have to expect an attack from his side, but if he's mostly using Keshiks we're good.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Genghis.jpg

We have nothing on Hatty either, but we can get Horseback Riding from Hannibal and we'll finish Code of Laws in a moment, so we'll probably be on par with her.

As for the world, here's a look at the cultural coverage, East and West:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_East.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_West.jpg

...and the resources we've uncovered:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_West_Resources.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Genghis_Resources.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round3/State%20of%20the%20World/R3_SoW_Shaka_Resources.jpg

If anyone is interested in other informative screenshots I'll post them later. I'd follow up with the plans for the next round but there doesn't seem to be much activity here, and I'm a bit hungry. :D

Nice play so far. I'd say sign peace with Hannibal. He'll vassalize, but that's ok. Next is Shaka imo. You want to cripple him at the very least. Plus if you can take his capital you'll nab a couple wonders, doesn't hurt.

You want to keep warring as much as possible early imo to get some GGs. That may mean drama sooner than later to use the slider to deal with WW a bit. But who knows...

My vote is still for medic 3 first. Maybe 2 medic 3s for 2 stacks...

Don't forget Shaka'll have those pesky Combat 1 Impis. That'll mean your elephants won't be able to destroy 'em so easily. Genghis, on the other hand, will have Keshiks, which your elephants will be able to maul without compunction.

Good point about Shaka vs Genghis. I'm a bit frustrated by the city development part of my game so far. I should have had 2-3 more workers out earlier as my cities are agonizingly undeveloped.

And talking about needing workers: this means that I'll have to delay both growth and building more military units in my cities for a few turns. I don't have much to attack anymore. So I'm really wondering if going for the Medic III Chariot is the way. Shouldn't I promoted as many of my War Elephants as possible? Maybe the catapults too, to give them accuracy. I'd be moving at a slow pace even with the Medic III due to having to wait for cultural defenses to be down. Granted, I'll probably get some more catapults from the capital (whip them into the Great Library), but with walls and religion Shaka's and Genghis's cities will be hard to take.

Later I'll take a look at the save to see how many units we could promote with the Great General. I'm still accepting suggestions for the Medic III, but maybe someone could point me how its better in this case. Anyway, I may end up playing both ways - as I said at the beginning, I want to explore different ways of using the GGs, and this looks like an ideal spot to start the comparison. The other use, namely the settling in the capital, is out of the question. It will probably get Oxford and National Epic, so it won't build many units anyway. I'm not sure where to put the Heroic Epic yet. Carthage is the Hindu holy city, so it will probably get the Wall Street if I can get a Shrine in it. I'll have to see if I commit one city for Heroic Epic & West Point, or if I decide to have the Heroic Epic benefits now and worry about the other wonders later.

I'll also have to see who can I bribe to attack whom. For now I couldn't bribe Genghis anyway since I accepted Hatty's demand to stop trading with him. (I rejected her demand for Construction earlier... Who does she think she is?) So I'm down to Shaka and Hatty. IIRC Hatty is currently "unavailable" but I'll have to look into that. Maybe give her a resource or something to increase the positive attitude. I'll have multiple wineries soon so maybe Hatty will enjoy some of my wine. :)

CC,

I'm all for the medic 3 with the first GG. It simply reduces the number of turns in any war and is a unit of value for the entire game. Just remember, even though he can upgraded for free, you don't want to do that. Under no cirucmstances do you ever want this unit to be a defender. Keeping your medic well protected and close to the front can be a chore in itself.

It sounds like you're a little disappointed with things such far. It seems that you're trying to forcing a style of play and the map is not being cooperative. My advice, play the best hand with the map you're given. The opportunities for war will arrive. There is no need to rush it. You'll get your GG's one way or another. Something else you can do is declare war and then wait for the AI to send units to you. If you try the same game with Cyrus, build the great wall and do this. You'll have GG's in no time (lends itself to those pillaging stacks I was talking about in another thread).

CC,

I'm all for the medic 3 with the first GG. It simply reduces the number of turns in any war and is a unit of value for the entire game. Just remember, even though he can upgraded for free, you don't want to do that. Under no circumstances do you ever want this unit to be a defender. Keeping your medic well protected and close to the front can be a chore in itself.

The problem is, we'll be facing Longbows in our next war. With the current promotions we'll need more units to mount a serious attack. While promoting Catapults with Accuracy and some War Elephants to Combat II will reduce the war time because we'll push faster through each city's defenses and we're have more surviving units.

It sounds like you're a little disappointed with things such far. It seems that you're trying to forcing a style of play and the map is not being cooperative. My advice, play the best hand with the map you're given. The opportunities for war will arrive. There is no need to rush it. You'll get your GG's one way or another. Something else you can do is declare war and then wait for the AI to send units to you. If you try the same game with Cyrus, build the great wall and do this. You'll have GG's in no time (lends itself to those pillaging stacks I was talking about in another thread).

The thing is, we're Charismatic and Protective. Not really great economic techs either of them. So we'll have to rely on a bigger empire to counter Huayna or Hatty. And the best way to achieve a larger empire is through war. You get fully grown cities, with improvements and all. The question is, is a war feasible right now? The first one effectively cost us one War Elephant and we were said to be "nearly equal" in power with Hannibal. So we probably shouldn't be too worried about the AI's "power"...

Hmm, I just realized we haven't even used the Protective trait. We could whip some walls in the Carthaginian cities, and add a couple of Protective archers there in case we go to war with one of Shaka or Genghis and the other one attacks us. Those archers may be low on strength, but with their promotions and being behind walls they can make pretty tough defenders. And I won't mind upgrading some of them to Crossbows and to gunpowder units later on.

Ok, just checked the save and we have a lot of units that are going to get promotions from our last attacks. We have 5 War Elephants (not counting the one in the capital, nor the one being produced in Nottingham), 5 Catapults and 4 Axemen ready for action, provided that they do some healing. So I guess I'll use the GG for the Medic III after all. :)

By the way, whipping archers to dump the excess in the Great Library is a zero sum on happiness since we're running Hereditary Rule. Which, incidentally, is both Ragnar's and Huayna's favorite civic! We might still get friendly after all. :D Hatty's in favor of Organized Religion and I even consider switching to it without having a state religion. I know it sounds stupid because of the high upkeep, but if it means having another friend I might just do it.

Now for some good news/bad news all in one: neither Shaka nor Genghis have mounted units. Bad because it means more archers and melee units. Good because we can attack either one and not fear pillaging very much if the other joins the war. Of if we get Hatty to war with the other (she's willing to go against Shaka, but doesn't like us enough) and she asks us to go in the fight.

Looks good so far. There's something you might want to keep in mind as you move into the longbow era, though. I imagine you keep your military units unpromoted until they have to face enemy attack, right? (If not, you may want to - it gives you flexibility before you encounter an enemy, and means if there's a relatively easy fight you can have your units fight it unpromoted then use the promotion to heal up from whatever damage they take) I sometimes give promotions to city defenders even if I normally leave units unpromoted.

You might want to give some of your city defense longbows drill promotions instead of CG promos. It's less effective, sure, but that's not the point. If you do that on the longbows in your more central cities, they'll mostly likely not see combat anyways (given that you're headed towards a midaeval offense, which means a higher military size, which means higher power, whch means fewer AI attacks. And the wars you initiate you'll be going on the offense, which means encountering the enemy in their territory, not yours) so the drill promos won't hurt you. They will, however, really help you if you then upgrade those longbows to redcoats, replacing them with new CG redcoats and moving the drill ones to your offensive army. As charismatic & protective, Drill 3 or 4 is not out of the question. Drill 4 takes a unit with 8 xp. And a drill 4 redcoat is ridiculous. I don't think you can give gunpowder units drill promos normally, so upgrading longbows and/or crossbows is the way to get there. These units make incredible stack defenders while some CR grenadiers clear out enemy units, or they work as excellent clean-up crews on the more damaged enemy units holding out after catapult/cannon attacks and the first CR gren or two. Drill means they'll take far less damage.

Another option is to use crossbows as stack defenders with drill. Very few of them, of course, as the enemy rarely attacks SODs, and so you don't want many, but that's the niche that crossbows fill normally, and the drill promos, particularly in warlords, work even better for it. They take less collateral damage, on the off chance an AI is smart enough to catapult your SOD, and they take less damage if they win a fight, because they're likely to do so with the first strikes drill offers. And they get bonuses against the units the AI tends to counter-attack with. Just don't forget a spear/pike or two in case the AI sends some knights at you, as drill units...well...don't do so well against knights.

Basically, the idea is that you'll be promoting drill units to take advantage of your strengths; charismatic and protective. 8 xp is relatively easy to get a hold of, particularly with your emphasis on GG production, and will make your UU return to levels similar to pre-Warlords ridiculousness.

I just finished round 4. Things didn't really go as planned, as I decided to forgo further wars until we develop our cities a bit more. Some things went our way, some things against us, as usual. We're pretty low on power, but war will come. I promise you. I'll post the update tomorrow.

You must not let Shaka get too powerful. Catas + elephants can take him out.

Round 4: 150AD - 980AD

Remember that barb city that prevented me from having a good gold one? It's still there, taken by Ragnar... I know, I should have taken care of it, but I was too worried about the "power graph" lies telling me I'm on par with Hannibal to use an extra elephant there. Oh well. I think I probably should still build a gold city in a different location.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_01_Still_There.jpg

A couple of turns later, after finishing Code of Laws for possible trades, I made the AI-like switch to Organized Religion without adopting a state religion just to please Hatty. She had already asked me for tribute which I refused and I didn't want to remain without friends. At the current size of my empire I didn't find the increased cost such a problem (OR has high upkeep).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_03_OR_Hatty_Friendly.jpg

On the war-front I decided that whatever the continuation of the round - war or peace - we need to destroy Hannibal if we can. With that in mind I decided to move my troops South trying to find his cities and only if one of them is on an island ask for peace. He wasn't going to give me more than Horseback Riding and a few bucks, so if I took him out I didn't lose much. My Great General made Medic III of my Chariot, making him more mobile too in the process. (Flanking or Tactics don't help since I'm not going to attack with him)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_02_Medic_III.jpg

And later I got lucky. Both Carthaginian cities were there for me to take.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_06_Ragnar_HR.jpg

You'll also notice that Ragnar switched to Hereditary Rule too, his favorite civic. Now I had HR in common with Ragnar and Huayna, and OR with Hatty, so this should improve my relations with them. Really important since everybody but Hatty had considered Hannibal as a friend ("-1" diplomatic relations) and Ragnar hates Hatty with whom I still want to trade. By the end of the round sharing those favorite civics would really help offset the negative modifiers and keep the three of them in good moods.

Back to the war, there was a problem: Leptis (right) was founded on Marble and the new capital was directly on top of a copper mine. I could have kept Leptis to try to finish the Great Library faster but decided that one city instead of those two would have more benefits. Maybe I was wrong... Anyway, the two cities fell with a couple of losses on my side (I went up against Longbows now, not mere Archers) and Hannibal was no more.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_07_Marble.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_08_End_and_Workers.jpg

I also captured five workers in the process which would really speed up my city development. And speaking of cities, Nottingham's iron now has a brother on the mine on top of the nearby hill. That's probably the RNG's way to tell me it's sorry for not giving me copper in the first place.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_05_New_Iron.jpg

Back in the peaceful world, Huayna was happily teching toward Theology...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_09_Theology.jpg

And Ragnar got some bananas as a gift to try to make him like me more. No, really.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_10_Gift.jpg

Hatty and Genghis were probably both occupied with the Great Library too since both of them had Literature. I tried to speed things up by whipping Archers into it and working plains farms instead of those scientists, but in the end it was all for nothing as Genghis beat me to it.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_11_Great_Library_Away.jpg

I was really starting to feel lost there in terms of techs. A war with Genghis was pretty much out of the question as he had one of the two top power graphs in the world. I also couldn't convince anyone to go to war with him so I'd be free to attack Shaka. And if I attacked Shaka I could probably bet a good sum of money that Genghis would retaliate. Or Shaka would vassalize to him. I also couldn't adopt Hinduism to please one of them while I attacked the other since my three friends were not too much into this religion...

So I decided to go for the single path that seemed to give me a winning possibility. I stayed peaceful and went for Liberalism. Yeap, 180 degrees from what we've discussed, but I really didn't think that my undeveloped empire would provide enough hammers to build the huge army needed to go to war and still be safe, AND retain a decent economy.

With that in mind I was first to Civil Service and adopted Bureaucracy, then I researched Philosophy and Paper on my own before my next Great Scientist helped me finish Education.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_14_Education.jpg

Then, with the Liberalism race in the bag (nobody had Paper yet) I went to my friends for a few trades:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_13_Trade.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_16_Map.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_17_Machinery.jpg

And a few turns later, thanks to the 100% science slider fueled by war and trade money, I was the first to Liberalism. I chose Nationalism since now I had that Marble online so the Taj Mahal seemed like a good bet.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/R4_18_Nationalism.jpg

This is where the round ended. As you see, except for my war against Hannibal there were no other wars. I think Genghis isn't very far from declaring on me, so I kept my task force in Carthage and I'll reinforce it with a few Protective Longbows and a couple of Macemen for an eventual counter-attack.

State of the World post to follow.

You have horses. Stop trading advanced techs and beeline to miltrad/gunpowder. Use cavalry to take out Shaka and Genghis or Ragnar if necessary

Actually I think I'll post the State of the World tomorrow, as it's getting a little late. :)

futurehermit, I can either get to Military Tradition or Rifling (next GS lightbulbs Printing Press), but I guess Military Tradition is faster. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll need Horseback Riding and Music but I'll research them on my own since any trade would just get me additional but less useful techs in exchange for Education or something, and I don't want to give those up just yet.

Ragnar's pretty far from me (look at the minimap in the last post), but with Cavalry I think both Genghis and Shaka will fall.

Oh, and I forgot the save. I'll add it right away to the end of the round 4 post.

The Taj? To what end?

I think futurehermit's suggestion is good, especially if you're still intent on exploring the GGs.

Well, I'm the first to Nationalism, I have Marble (double production on the Taj), and I don't see how a Golden Age would harm me. :)

Of course I'm going to pursue Cavalry, but apart from building Research in the capital there's not much it can do to speed things up. And having the free Golden Age while denying it to the AI seems a sensible thing to do. I also don't have the option to build War Elephants and later upgrade them to Cavalry, it will cost me too much and I'd rather spend the money on fueling research toward Redcoats. I'll upgrade those of the War Elephants that are already highly promoted and see about the rest. And in the meantime I'll build some Longbows who will later be upgraded to Redcoats.

State of the World: 980AD

First, a look at what I'm building. Since I got Metal Casting I'm going for a few forges to boost production. I have a decent number of cities all growing at the time which will give me a good production output, especially with the Golden Age that's approaching. By the way, I can shave three turns off on the Taj Mahal by switching from Scientists to plains farms.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_01_Production.jpg

I'm also thinking of revolting to Free Religion to boost the research, but I'm not sure I can keep Hatty please if I switch from Organized Religions. She'll only be at +2.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_02_Switch_Free.jpg

Speaking of relations, here's what my friends and foes think about me:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_03_Huayna.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_04_Ragnar.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_05_Hatty.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_06_Shaka.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_07_Genghis.jpg

Shaka's not that much of a problem, being the most behind in techs. Genghis is a little more up-to-date though. Hatty is the leader of the pack, I only have Education, Liberalism & Nationhood on her. She's also the only one trading at the moment unfortunately. I could get a lot of her techs by trading away Education, but she doesn't need Universities to get even more advanced...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_08_Techs.jpg

Research-wise don't get fooled by the long time it takes to research Military Tradition. Carthage is building a university as we speak and it will likely help with it. And I could also settle my next Great Scientist (provided it's not a lowly artist instead) for some more beakers. So, research is going to be: Gunpowder -> Horseback Riding (1 turn) -> Music -> Military Tradition.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_09_Military_Tradition.jpg

As I said, I'm getting back in the game in terms of production. The even better news is that Shaka and Genghis seem not to do too well in that department.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_10_Production.jpg

I'm still powerless though. But my defensive line - Carthage & Utica - is heavily guarder so I don't think I'd have a problem should Genghis get any nasty ideas.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_11_Powerless.jpg

And finally views of the western and eastern part of the continent. I still don't have a map of Hatty's lands, but I'll send a Chariot there to map them out. Same for Shaka as long as I still have Open Borders with him.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_14_West.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round4/State%20of%20the%20World/R4_SoW_15_East.jpg

Played round 5 and got my next Great General. Almost everything went according to the plan. I made some trades with Hatty that I didn't want to at first, but the money I got in return war used to speed up the war, so it's all good. ;)

Looking forward to next round. Would suggest prebuilding elephants to upgrade to cav. Would also suggest trading to hatty for music/hbriding while you research gunpowder-miltrad, but that may be coming to late since you've already played the next round ;)

Glad to see Shaka didn't manage to get off the ground, he must've got sandwiched in, which is lucky :) Genghis isn't much of a threat. He's always backwards later in the game. In fact, besides HC, I don't see anyone on your continent as being too much of a threat (Hannibal was, but is no longer).

So if you can get cav and get on Genghis and Shaka you should be in pretty good shape.

You made a medic 3 unit with first GG iirc? What are you plans for the next one?

Music and HB were 4 and 1 turns to research, so not much of a problem there. I didn't want to trade either Education or Nationalism to her that early.

Shaka's pathetic. He's behind in techs and even though he's decent in military it won't help him.

And yeah, I got a Medic 3 & +1 movement from the Warlord Chariot. The next one is exactly the reason for which I stopped the round. I'll post the update soon, but I'll have to sort through the screenshots first. Got a little carried away with the pretty pictures. ;)

Round 5: 980AD - 1420AD

As we decided, we'd go for Military Tradition and Cavalry in this round. I started on Gunpowder first, to be able to build some Musketmen instead of only Longbows.

A couple of years later our world saw its second war: Ragnar declared on his long-time enemy, Hatty.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_01_Second_War.jpg

They really weren't kidding. If I remember correctly Ragnar got a Great General for his efforts first, then Hatty got one to compensate.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_03_Gunpowder_and_Great_General_H.jpg

In the meantime, on the domestic front my capital gave birth to a much needed Great Engineer. I had great military plans for him.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_02_Great_Engineer.jpg

And then Taj Mahal was completed and the enlightened people of England + Carthage started their first Golden Age.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_04_Taj_Mahal.jpg

This had the additional benefit of reducing the time needed for Military Tradition to exactly 8 turns. I'd be getting in on the turn I exited my Golden Age, and then I'd be ready for my Cavalry charge. In the meantime Shaka asked me for Music, and for once I accepted. He's not such a bad boy if you look past the appearances. ;) (But I am. He will pay for this.....)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_05_Musical_Bastard.jpg

Hatty didn't get the direction in which I was heading, and asked me to go to war with Ragnar. Sure, like a Buddhist enemy was all I needed right now.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_06_Not_War.jpg

I got her back to Pleased with some trades later.
And to underline how stupid I would have been to go to war with Ragnar, he got to Economy first and got a Great Merchant for his efforts. He'll be upgrading troops like mad and I'd have to pass through his buddy Huayna's territory to attack him. Fat chance.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_07_Economics.jpg

Hatty wasn't doing so wonderful though. First fell a bad placed Giza, then whatever defenses she had weren't enough to save Hippo from the Viking Cavalry. That's right, I wasn't the first to use Cavalry.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_08_Hatty_Loses.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_11_Ragnar_SoD.jpg

Ragnar now wanted me to help him get rid of the Egyptians, but as I'm still quite fond of our little Hatty (not to mention she was the only one trading with me) I decided to tell him to go play alone.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_09_Not_War_II.jpg

In the meantime I was preparing Utica to be a military powerhouse. The Heroic Epic got built there earlier, and now I put my Great Engineer to work on the West Point. Don't worry about the huge number of turns needed to complete it, I was just setting the city on full growth mode.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_10_West_Point.jpg

While checking the trade scene I noticed Hatty having a lot of money all of a sudden. Missed the Taj or something? Anyway, I decided it had better use in my treasury, upgrading MY troops. So I made the following trade (Theology was there just to complete things):

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_12_Hatty_Trade.jpg

Hey, if she wants to ruin her economy to upgrade her own War Elephants to Cavalry, be my guest!

Education was also becoming pretty known right now, so when Hatty offered the Printing Press and some $$ in exchange I just couldn't say no. One step closer to Redcoats.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_13_Hatty_Trade_II.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from the previous post]

Well, the money I got from her went, as planned, to give the Elephants a "species-change" to horses for my Cavalry units. And then, when I saw I was at last a decent power in this world I decided to put that power to good use. The Anglo-Mongolian war has started.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_15_Power.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_16_Mongolian_War.jpg

Ragnar must have thought I'm quite dumb as he came back to ask me to fight against Hatty. Sorry buddy, I have other plans. Rain-check.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_17_How_Many_Times.jpg

Soon I got my first taste of Mongolian soil.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_18_First_Victim.jpg

Genghis sent his Golden Horde to take it back, but it amounted to nothing against the incoming Cavalry.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_20_Golden_Horde.jpg

Anyway, a couple of turns later I planted some English culture in it from a Great Artist born in my capital.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_21_Smile.jpg

But the next city would offer me my first surprise. Since I hadn't researched much on the way to Rifling I had no idea how far the others were ahead. It turned out that it was just enough to get these:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_22_Rifles.jpg

Ok... DON'T PANIC! I still easily outnumbered the Mongolian defenses and I understood a little better where all that "power" came from. Probably a big part was from the military techs. Soon that city fell too, not much he could do about it.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/R5_23_Next.jpg

And I got my next Great General. Gen. Zhuge Liang is awaiting our orders.

Here ended round 5. I'll give the state of the world right away and then we'll talk about how to use Gen. Liang.

State of the World: 1420AD

I'll start with an overview of the technological situation. Hatty's still the only one on trading terms with me, and all of my "allies" have everything but Liberalism now.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_01_Huayna.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_02_Ragnar.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_03_Hatty.jpg

Genghis won't give anything of interest for peace yet, but I'm not interested in peace anyway. :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_05_Genghis.jpg

Shaka shouldn't be a problem. As I said before, he doesn't have horses, and it seems he's still got a way to go to Riflemen. As soon as the Mongolian war is over he's next.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_04_Shaka.jpg

Speaking of the Mongolians, here's what their lands look like. There's a "New Sarai" out there somewhere which Genghis so generously offered, but I think I'll stick to taking the capital and Beshbalik and then I'll try to vassalize him. I'll better be careful for Ragnar, since he's pretty much friends with everybody but Hatty and I don't want him to backstab me.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_10_Genghis_Land.jpg

The others act as predicted. Huayna and Hatty are still on my side, but I might switch back to OR to be sure of Hatty's commitment. I'm in Free Religion right now.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_06_Relations.jpg

In the end it will probably be me and Hatty vs the world in my domination attempt. Huayna's still big and strong, but with my new colonies I should be able to outproduce him.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_07_Huayna_Leader.jpg

I'm on the right track too, with only one conquered city online.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_08_Mfg.jpg

Ragnar mass upgraded to Rifles I think. He'll be hell to fight. Huayna's a little lower and the others and I are on the same power level. That will change.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_09_Power.jpg

And I'll end with a view of my future victim's land. Four interesting cities, and then I'll tackle the Buddhist contingent. But that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round5/State%20of%20the%20World/R5_SoW_11_Shaka_Land.jpg

I'll be back tomorrow/later today for the Great General talk.

Also remember, if you're at the same power level on the graph as the AI, you're much better off in a war, because humans have a significant advvantag over the AI when it comes to actually fighting a war. They don't leverage their troops very well and tend to have most of 'em sitting around defending.

Yeap, I kind of realize that. But this time anyway the difference between my forces and the opposing ones was incredible. I mean, I lost something like one catapult and one elephant against Hannibal because he had close to no defenses. It just seemed he was nowhere near my power even if the graph told another story.

And look at what Genghis has now: the power graph shows almost the same power, but so far I haven't seen more than 5 troops in his cities plus the stack that threatened to recapture the first city I took. Compare it to my Cavalry. And even after his losses he's still equal. What can he possibly have in the capital to counter all that?! I'll find out soon enough. :)

~~~~~~~

About the Great General:

Option 1: Another Medic III. But since I only plan to take two more cities from Genghis the one I got will be enough to heal all my units.

Next war, against Shaka, I'll also have 4 (5?) cities to take. Considering I have quite the tech lead on him, it should be even less of a problem.

And I'll probably get another GG until the third war.

Option 2: A Military Academy. The best site seems to be Utica, since it will then produce 7XP Redcoats with a 150% production bonus. Later coupled with a Military Instructor I could get level 4 gunpowder units from the start: CGI + Drill I + Pinch + Combat I & II, or CGIII + Drill I + Pinch.

Option 3: A Military Instructor. Again, settling him in Utica will give me the level 4 Redcoats but at a slower pace. Next GG could then build a MA there. Which order seems best? I'd say option 2, as they are already good units, I just need enough of them.

Option 4: Promote multiple units. Probably not so useful since I'm Charismatic and I'll also have an advantage due to Redcoats and to having Protective gunpowder units in general. Also, I don't want to use it now on Cavalry units since they won't do the most city attacking later.

Conclusion: If I would have had a tough war to finish I might have gone for multiple promotions. But everything points to the contrary. Plus, my future army will consist mostly of units I haven't built yet. MA in Utica seems the way to go.

Is it worth it to put a MA in a city where you're putting HE (I'm assuming you have HE since you said 150%). I find with HE most of my units take 1 maybe 2 turns to produce so a MA seems like overkill. Why not start a 2nd military city up?

When you're producing mainly cav I find a MI to be questionable since you get 2promotion units with barracks/stable. Of course you will produce other units as well. I think it kinda depends on whether you can run vassalage and/or theocracy though. If you can't run one or both then the value of a MI goes up.

I've been thinking about two medic 3 GGs because it's more a question of speed for me. With two stacks healing rapidly you could zip through someone's empire much faster meaning your units won't be obsolete when you move on to the next empire. That's my thinking on it anyways...

Yeap, I have HE in Utica. So far the production isn't that great, but I'm thinking of State Property somewhere along the line. Probably an MA in it is really overkill. I'll have to see about a second military city, probably one of Genghis' or Shaka's.

And I don't plan to build too many Cavs anymore. Shaka will go down against them, but I'll try to get to Redcoats as soon as possible. Granted, 3 promotions instead of two won't do that much now that I think of it... I could run Vassalage once I start on Redcoats and thus skip the MI. For now I'm thinking of switching the capital to a Stock Exchange/Harbor/Grocer queue to get the most of it. The other cities can still pump up enough units and I'll need the extra money to pay for them.

Theocracy might come into play when I go with Hatty against the Buddhists. I have Confucianism in some of my cities thanks to a small attention from Hatty, so I'll build a Monastery in one of them and start pumping out Missionaries to convert all my cities for later.

Two Medic III seem good. But what I mentioned in the previous post was that I think I'll have another Great General by the end of the war with Shaka. Can't I make that one Medic III and use this one for something better?

---

Bottom line, I'm still torn between an MA (in Utica or not, good for the nearby future) or another Medic III (in my opinion good for later wars). Or I could do both. Branch the game here and play both versions. :D While the first GG was pretty straight forward after all (no MI 'cause I was heading for Cavs, no MA at the time) and helped me a lot as a Medic, I'm not sure the current situation is as clear-cut as a millennium ago.

I would say it boils down to whether or not you have another spot immediately in mind for another military city? If not might as well go for another medic 3 unit now and plan a 2-pronged assault then make a MA with subsequent GG?

I don't know, another option might be to start stacking MIs in you HE city?

Well, Carthage isn't working a crab tile right now due to a Mongolian caravel, but with it online I should be able to transform three newly built cottages into workshops. On the other hand it could hold quite a few specialists later, not sure I'd want it to be specialized in producing units...

Both Nottingham and Kerkouane (East of York) can be turned into unit building mode, but Nottingham already has a University in it and Kerkouane has quite a few water tiles and a desert or two and won't be that productive later.

None seem like really military cities to me, nor do the future ex-Mongolian ones. I'll think more about this tomorrow. I'm not gonna play the next round just yet anyway. Good night. :hatsoff:

I went for the MASH version for now. I might come back to this point later to try out a different version though.

For now I played 100 years and vassaled Genghis. Took Beshbalik and Karakorum and razed Old Sarai. Found New Sarai when he showed me his map... Ugh, glad I didn't accept it in the Peace Treaty.

I'll continue the plan with an attack on Shaka.

So does the MASH version mean another medic3? :lol:

If so, I concur. That will allow you to do 2-pronged assaults on people = faster conquering (as long as you have enough troops that it doesn't get into a divide-and-conquer situation).

Future generals will boil down to MA vs MI imo. And that will depend on how many decent production cities you have. I tend to prefer MA to get more units as I always lag behind in unit production. But it depends I guess...

Yeap, that's the MASH version. :D I'm pretty impressed how much two Medics can do in this era. Shaka had a lots of units defending so most of my units are badly injured. I think if I played with earlier wars I would have used the GG differently, but now I'm quite satisfied with this choice.

I played the round until one turn after I got a Great General (wanted to capture one more city), but my computer's having a meltdown right now and I still haven't identified the cause. So it may take a while to update. I'll try to reinstall Windows this weekend if I don't see any hardware problem, but there's no guarantee.

By the way, the Mongolian capital has an MA and lots of food (3 seafood tiles). Looks great for a Globe Theater & MI city for drafting. We'll see.

Ahh, nice, a free MA! Yeah, putting MIs in there might be a good way to go (however might it be far away from your later wars after Shaka is gone???)

I would still prefer more MAs if you find more production cities, but there are a few options to consider for sure.

I would have gone for level 4 redcoats in the HE city.
Anything else is just meh at this point.
What is the building rate of your HE city?
Can you build a redcoat every turn, or every other turn?

I'm not opposed to level 4 redcoats at all. However, I just prefer to mass units. That's why I side more with the two medics + MAs. Draft/whip/mass units and 2-pronged attack civs into quick submission?

the difference between level 3 and level 4 in the field is worth the reducing of a handful of units.
If you need the culture from the academy, then why not. Else it's not worth it. And I'm very dubious about the medic 3 trick.
I tend to war "slower" than most, so I may not be the best advisor here.
What I know is that a fast non lethal push is costing more in WW thant slow progression (less fights each turn, less casualties, more defensive fights)

Oh, I'm not advocating anything other than a lethal push, don't worry :lol:

I mean go in with two prongs and cripple the civ asap taking out key military cities first. Then heal quickly and go for the kill...

With only one stack, the AI can concentrate his forces against you and stall your war. I've been quite surprised with the AI in some games actually. Quite good tactics...But if the AI puts all of its eggs in one basket against one of your stacks, your other one can take him out in a weaker area...

Well, my computer's back in action, but I've managed to lose the 1590 save in the process so I had to replay the whole war with Shaka. Some things changed as I got my Great General a turn earlier (he sent more units from his western city) and it took me one more turn to capture one of his cities (I needed two more units to capture it!). Whatever, the outcome is pretty much the same.

I'll post the update a little later today.

Round 6: 1420AD - 1595AD

As I said I decided to go with the MASH option: another Medic III Chariot. Seeing how the war with Shaka would be on two fronts anyway it seemed a good enough idea.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_00_MASH.jpg

I didn't forget about the plan to spread Confucianism everywhere. If Hatty didn't beat me to it, as she was constantly sending missionaries, not that I minded... Nottingham was set to build a Confucian Monastery before we got Scientific Method to obsolete it. I'll probably send a missionary to York and build another monastery there as Nottingham is a very good city and could use some gold/research multipliers instead of building missionaries.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_01_Confucian.jpg

In the meantime York prepared some catapults for our future wars.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_02_Catapults.jpg

We met some more rifles in Beshbalik, but they couldn't stand our Cavalry & Catapults combo.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_03_Beshbalik_Rifles.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_04_Capture_Beshbalik.jpg

We also found the Great Library in Beshbalik. That means we'll probably delay Scientific Method. After all we still have lots of good alternatives.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_05_Great_Library.jpg

The Mongolian capital seemed well defended but you'll notice that the Rifles in it didn't have too many promotions. Should be easy as pie.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_06_Karakorum.jpg

While we marched to Karakorum Genghis was kind enough to put some of his units in the open for some free XP:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_07_Stack.jpg

And then Karakorum fell and we found it was full of goodies: Colossus (York will be happy), an Academy and a Military Academy. Admittedly it's a bit far away from the front, but it could be helpful to build a fleet that would keep our backs safe when we decide to go after Huayna. Also, with its high food count we can probably make it the Globe Theater city and draft like mad in it. Whether we should put a MI in it or not is another cup of tea.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_09_Military_Academy.jpg

I decided to continue and take out the last Mongolian city we could see on the continent before asking for peace. Genghis only gave us Optics in return. He wanted to give us New Sarai too, but I had no idea where it was and I didn't really need a crappy city surrounded by foreign culture. By the way, I did take him as a vassal. He won't be of much use but I don't want him to become someone else's vassal and ask that one to declare on us or something.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_10_Last_City.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_11_Vassal.jpg

Oh, and here's New Sarai:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_12_New_Sarai.jpg

That's one crappy city! What was he thinking?!?

A summary of the use of the two medics: since we went North-South-Capital in the war with Genghis I first put one Chariot in Turfan (N) and moved the other one with the attacking stack. The Turfan one, having done its job there, came down to Beshbalik to heal the troops from that attack, and the other one continued with the stack to Karakorum. Pretty good actually, since it allowed fast healing from suicidal siege units while we were waiting to take down the Capital's cultural defenses.

In the meantime, thanks to the National Epic & Taj Mahal combo our capital spit out another Artist. Well, since we're going to war with Shaka I decided to keep it for another cultural bomb & instant out-of-revolt-ness. It means we'll be able to move more troops in the captured city on the same turn, and we'll also heal faster.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_13_Great_Artist.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

I got another good trade with Hatty that also allowed us to switch civics to Nationalism & Free Market. She's the only one still under the WFYABTA limit, so even if she does look appetizing to conquer I'll keep her as a trading partner since I'm starting to fall behind a lot.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_14_Hatty_Trade.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_15_Civics.jpg

While I was preparing my next war something crappy happened: Shaka's culture took Turfan from us. That meant free units for him, another city to take and we had to wait one turn to heal before the attack. Couldn't have come in a worse moment. Anyway, after that turn we still declared war on him. He had it coming. :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_16_Shaka_Takeover.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_17_Shaka_War.jpg

Here's a quick look at his defenses. He has a city North-West of Nottingham and five cities on the Eastern front. I didn't count Turfan as I took it right back.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_18_Western_Defenses.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_20_Eastern_Defenses2.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_19_Eastern_Defenses1.jpg

As you can see in the last image thanks to the two-move Cavalry I managed to block a counter-attack on the East-most front. By now we were able to draft (and actually drafted) Redcoats, so even a later Cavalry that sneaked in got burned really fast.

The two medics went with the two Eastern stacks, since we'd still have to heal them in order to continue toward the capital. The west front was pretty safe and I decided to wait for Shaka to send a part of his units our way before razing his city. He actually sent most of the troops there and our drafted Redcoats made little work of them.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_21_Western_Stack.jpg

That also got our next Great General which was put in storage for now as I wanted to take the two eastern cities next and then stop to discuss its use.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_22_Great_General.jpg

Next on my agenda: welcome to Nobamba Falls, now an English territory.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_23_Nobamba_Falls.jpg

In the meantime I cleaned up the Western front:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_24_Western_Cleaning.jpg

...and then butchered the Easter defenses with several catapults before going head on with tons of Redcoats and highly promoted Cavalry.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_25_Take_Two.jpg

As I said before, I used the Great Artist (previously positioned close by in Utica) to get the uMsomething city out of revolt, then drafted a Redcoat in it and whipped it until it got under the starving limit.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_26_Culturizing.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_27_Draft_Whip.jpg

And after selling Huayna Liberalism and raising the research slider to boost our research I ended another round. I'll post the state of the world a little later, including statistics about units destroyed and losses. I'd say we're doing pretty well at that chapter.

State of the World: 1595AD

I've kind of reached the limit to drafting, as most cities are near or at their happiness cap. Utica has even surpassed it, that's why I set the culture slider up to 10%. I'm also planning to build Theaters in all cities as soon as I finish the current round of Redcoats.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_01_Builds.jpg

Other buildings may also be in order, so I might consider settling the Great General as a MI in Utica after all. That city's only going to build units anyway, and even if we don't give them the extra promotions right away (except for Pinch), we can save them to partially heal wounded units.

On the foreign front I'm pretty much behind in techs. They probably have others that I don't see too. I might gift Genghis something to get him to trade Constitution but it's not a certain thing by far.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_02_Techs.jpg

Research-wise, I'd head for Steel (Ironworks and Drydocks) -> Steam (Coal & Ironclads) -> Railroads (Machine Guns) -> Combustion and Scientific Method. Infantry can come later as a Redcoats + Machine Guns + Cannons combination with the leftover Cavalry can still do a good job.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_03_Research.jpg

Huayna's still first in pretty much everything but I'm closing in on him. He'll probably be my next victim anyway, but I'll have to watch my back (@ Karakorum).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_05_Huayna_First.jpg

I'm sitting pretty well in production and will likely get higher as soon as my cities grow back from all that drafting.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_06_Production.jpg

By the way, I'm thinking of changing civics to Free Speech to boost my cultural borders a bit, especially in the Mongolian and Zulu cities.

I'm currently third in power, after an awesome Huayna and good but not scaring Ragnar. Shouldn't be a problem if I choose my targets well, but I'm a bit afraid of a mass upgrade to Infantry.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_07_Power.jpg

A general look at the Demographics screen:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_08_Demographics.jpg

And now some war-time statistics. I've killed 39 Rifles, 8 Cavalry and lots of small fry:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_09_Kills.jpg

...while losing 17 Cavalry, 4 Redcoats and 9 suicidal Catapults.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_10_Losses.jpg

21 "heavy" losses vs 47 "heavy" kills looks alright. And my standing army still numbers 27 Redcoats and 13 Cavalry. I'm a little short on siege units, but I'm going for Steel after all and Utica can get some really promoted Cannons out in no time.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/State%20of%20the%20World/R6_SotW_11_Current_Army.jpg

So, any opinions on where to go from now? Alternative research paths? Great General plans? I'm here to hear it all. :D

I played two rounds and still haven't finished. Huayna's land allowed him to gain all kinds of advantages on me: economic (crazy GNP), military (way better than everybody else) and scientific (he has quite a few techs on me). I managed to get to Assembly Line first and boosted my production to the point that I was in first place for a while and I'm still keeping up with him, but most of the wars fought now are just for killing units. Not sure at all if I can win this, he has too much going for him. I'll post the updates soon and continue to play from there.

Interesting; good luck pulling it out!

Round 7: 1595AD - 1720AD

This was a very eventful round, with lots of Great Generals, desperate situations and strange solutions, and the occasional bad move on my part. Cause if there's none of the latter, there's no fun. ;) I really had to delete a lot of screenshots to get it to a manageable size, but I think I lost some important ones in the process. Oh well, these will have to do.

Just a reminder: I was still at war with Shaka after taking two of his big cities, and was heading for the capital next. And that Great General went to Utica as a MI. That city would have 9XP units without any war civic, pretty good for a Charismatic leader. It also meant that much later if I got the Pentagon I'd need only one more MI to have level 5 units.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_08_GG_to_MI.jpg

Back to the war: I sent one force from each captured city against the capital. In the second image notice the effect of the Great Artist plus Super Medic. My units healed in no time and they were ready and eager for action once more. I even had too many so some of them went further North to take the last city before peacekeepers intervened.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_03_First_Force.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_05_Artist_and_Medic.jpg

I easily took the Zulu capital which proved to be a great city. I have another Military Academy in it, plus lots of buildings and wonders. Its position is a bit out of the way for future wars, but maybe it will be the starting point of a sea invasion.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_09_Capital.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_10_Great_City.jpg

I also moved the second super Medic in the captured capital to give those units a healing boost, but that war was over anyway. The next city fell without problems and I decided to make it a gift to Hatty since it would have been swamped in her culture anyway. She was to become my ally against the Buddhist block. I don't forget my friends. (for once in my games....)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_11_Capture_and_Gift.jpg

Since Shaka was willing to part ways with an excellent tech I agreed to take him as a vassal. He won't back-stab me or Hatty this way, but he won't be of great help either as he's down to one city.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_12_Vassal.jpg

Going back a bit let's see what happened on the domestic front. I whipped two Universities for lots of population to be able to start the Oxford University in the capital. Karakorum was one of the whippers, but it would grow back with all that food available to it once the war with Shaka was over.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_01_Whipped_Univ.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_02_Whipped_Univ.jpg

A review of my kills so far. Not too shabby, but I think I was caught in possession of too few siege units. (12 lost cats and 19 cavs... not good)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_14_Kills.jpg

I also changed civics early in the round since I wasn't going to draft anymore. Yes, only one civic changed, but I was starting to have enough town to make it worth it, and I wanted the culture to build up in those new cities.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_04_Peace_Civics.jpg

As I said before Oxford went in the capital and Globe Theatre in Ulundi. That city has great potential and I planned to make it a sea military power for a future war on Huayna.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_06_Globe_Theatre.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_07_Oxford.jpg

Speaking of Huayna, he's getting insanely powerful. This won't be a walk in the park, that's for sure. I should probably have expanded a little toward him, as he now has such a great territory that he dominates in almost every aspect.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_13_Huayna_Power.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

I continued to trade with Hatty to try to get back in contention. I was lucky enough that neither Huayna nor his trading buddy, Ragnar, went for Assembly Line. I was counting on Factories & Coal Plants to get me to the top in production and I also wanted to win the Pentagon race.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_15_Trade.jpg

Then the first part of disaster struck. I didn't see Ragnar sneak in a lot of troops toward Hatty. He was going to take another big city so I decided I should do something about it. I canceled my open borders with him and also with Huayna who was also preparing for an attack on Hatty.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_16_Ragnar_Hatty_War.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_17_Huayna_Prepares.jpg

All those Inca troops from my territory got pushed back so Huayna held off his war declaration.

A little earlier I got most of my troops in London and Nottingham in preparation for wars against the Buddhists, so I just moved them near Ragnar's troops and hoped he wouldn't take the city until next turn.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_18_Prepare_for_Ragnar.jpg

Strange enough he didn't, as he decided to pillage some stupid improvement. The city wasn't very well defended, and I was certain it would fall, but we (Hatty and I) got lucky this time. I proceeded to take out all of Ragnar's troops and from the military screen I could see there weren't many others coming from his territory.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_19_Took_out_Ragnar.jpg

That gave me my next Great General, who was put to build a Military Academy in London due to its closeness to the future war fronts. That's two GGs for Medic III, one as MI in Utica (HE & WP) and one as MA in London.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_20_GG_to_Capital_MA.jpg

But things were going from grim to gruesomely bad. Huayna finally did declare war against Hatty and (as I later found out) landed a war party somewhere near Memphis. When Hatty came in demanding that I honor our friendship I thought and thought and thought and finally accepted. World War I was just starting.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_21_War_War_War.jpg

The big problem was of course that my capital was near the front. Huayna had certainly kept lots of troops on mainland, but I was waiting for him with some cannons and the troops backed up by the two super medics. I counted on him coming in with a couple of stacks, and I was counting on going on the counter after that, aiming for the three border cities. Wanna see how wrong I was? This wrong:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_22_Huayna_Attacks.jpg

There's only one big stack there (2S1E of Huayna's city), the rest are destroying my road network. That would suck later on, as it meant I'll have troops stranded out there after killing off the pillagers, easy targets for the next wave. For there was a next wave, and another, and another...

I clearly should have built some early western cities, if not for their direct value then at least as buffers. My capital got pillaged, rebuilt and repillaged at the expense of quite a few workers, but I had to rebuild and reroad, or else I would have had no advantage over the incoming troops.

Despite spending two turns in anarchy to change civics, and one to acquire the religion I switched to Nationhood/Theocracy/Confucianism. Hoped that it would save me...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_23_War_Civics.jpg

Hatty was sending some reinforcements my way, so I thought she'd do well back home. I was now on the front line of this world war.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_24_Hatty_Reinforcements.jpg

I tried to take care of that stack first. Spent the cannons (again, not enough!) to soften the troops, then in went the Cavalry and Redcoats. However he was full of Pinch promoted Cavalry, and my Redcoats would still have problems with them. I got my next Great General midway through my counter-attack and waited to see what happened in between turns. I was still in anarchy so there was no need of settling him right away.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_25_Next_GG.jpg

I did manage to win most of the battles there, but then it was my turn to get kicked. I didn't have enough troops to protect my wounded stack the way I should, and here are the consequences:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_26_Losses.jpg

I then decided to pull out a stunt that worked miracles. I spent the GG to get my wounded stack promoted, as that meant I could heal off some of the damage on those troops.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_27_Mass_Promotions.jpg

Thanks to that my troops survived the next turn. I also moved the Nottingham super Medic with that stack to help them heal.

Hatty's troops were also coming to my help, and there was a face-off of stacks between her and Huayna.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_28_Hatty_vs_Huayna.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

Huayna was losing troops like mad, but so was I. No real chance of counters as I had to protect my two border cities.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_29_Power.jpg

Here's a look at my losses so far:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_30_Lost.jpg

Only three cannons died, but I didn't have many more anyway. The desire to build Redcoats had been too great, but I should have dedicated a couple of cities to cannons only.

On the other hand, I did kill a lot of units, and Huayna did show signs it was getting to him a bit. I'm sure he still had lots of units guarding his inner cities. Good for him...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_31_Killed.jpg

Ragnar only sent a few Cavalries here and there, and finally a few turns later agreed to pay for peace. No techs, but I took it anyway as it meant a few less pillagers to fend off.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_32_Peace_Ragnar.jpg

And then I finally managed to get a counter-attack on the way. Short as it was, it meant I took one city and extorted a few bucks off Huayna in the process when I demanded peace from him. I previously asked Hatty to follow up and destroy a city NW of the one in the picture (it had Versailles), but she was back to her incompetent self and just moved her troops around.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round7/R7_33_CounterAttack_and_Peace.jpg

The money I got from Ragnar, Huayna, Huayna's city, and the fact that I could go back to 0% on the culture slider meant I was able to research at 100% again (with huge deficit of course) toward my Assembly Line goal. More about it in round 8, but that will probably take sometime as I have to sort the screenshots and upload them first.

Round 8: 1720AD-1916AD

With the war over and Assembly Line coming in a few turns I decided to go for a civic change: Bureaucracy and Organized Religion for Pentagon (in the capital) and lots of Factories & Coal Plants.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_01_Build_Civics.jpg

I then tried to time all my cities to more or less finish their builds on the turn Assembly Line kicked in so I could start on the infrastructure. I had to get some Fishing Boats back as a rogue Incan Transport evaded my Ironclads (yeap, I built Ironclads!) and pillaged my coasts.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_02_Timing.jpg

My next Great Person was a Great Scientist whom I spent on partially researching Scientific Method. My idea was to get Oil and an Oil-based navy for naval supremacy for the next war.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_03_Scientific_Method.jpg

Hatty was a dear in peace-time, giving me money to upgrade my troops and Railroads to speed their way to the front in exchange for Pentagon. She was still at war with Huayna, so I wasn't afraid she'd take a shot at the Pentagon herself.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_04_Assembly_Line_Trade.jpg

I stacked most of my troops in Vilcabamba and I upgraded some of them to Infantry. A few Redcoats weren't far from another promotion so I decided I'll upgrade them later.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_05_Upgrades.jpg

My next tech goal was also achieved and I got the Fascism Great General. I used it for a Military Academy in Nottingham, a city I would later terraform toward production. Too bad about all the money/research buildings in it, but this was war time. I also built Mt Rushmore on the East Coast in Nobamba (the isthmus city); I was certainly going to need it.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_06_Fascism_GG.jpg

In the meantime Hatty still hadn't managed to keep her backyard clean, and even lost Memphis. This could turn really bad if she was going to capitulate to Huayna, but I hoped her new Infantries would do the job and at least keep her independent. Indeed, she got it back a few turns later, but I think I missed an announcement where she lost it again. That's gonna be a pain in her neck if Huayna ever decides to declare war on her again.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_07_Ouch.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_09_Back_Home.jpg

Fortunately, she knew who her friends were, and gave me another juicy tech for the now useless Fascism.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_08_Trade.jpg

A few turns later I found a couple of Oil supplies and now I had everything I needed to start my real navy. I even deleted the Ironclads as they would only add to my costs without providing any help.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_10_Oil.jpg

My frantic Factory building did get me in first place in terms of production after all. If only I could keep that up once Huayna got his own Factories online...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_11_Production.jpg

Another goal for this round was finished when I whipped the Pentagon for 10 population. It seems extreme, but by now Ragnar had Assembly Line too, so did Hatty who had finally made peace with Huayna (no capitulation...) and I needed to change civics anyway.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_12_Whip_Pentagon.jpg

A huge change of civics by the way. Universal Suffrage (I was first at Communism and was building Kremlin), Free Speech (from Bureaucracy), Emancipation (finally!), State Property (oh yeah! people's workshop power!) and Free Religion for happiness/research. This is probably going to be my last civics change, since I'm not going back to military ones thanks to twice promoted units from Pentagon. Maybe Police state will be an option if I run into too much war weariness.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_13_Super_Civics.jpg

But it seemed I wasn't going to war soon as the Buddhist block decided to get a Defensive Pact. Sheesh. Hatty never agreed to one with me though...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_14_Defensive_Pact.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

Due to running lots of engineers I got a GE as my next Great Person. I was thinking of spending him on Wall Street in Carthage, but the city had enough production to finish it in 12 turns. So I kept it for future use. Maybe even a Golden Age, seeing my production power right now.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_15_GE.jpg

I forgot to say something about a couple of other National Wonders. Ironworks got finished in Karakorum, who was becoming an awesome production city (too bad about its Academy, but yey for a Military Academy) and Scotland Yard ended up in uSomethingZuluCity. I needed the Spies to try and take out Huayna's oil wells (two on the continent, one on an island) since Ragnar only had one and would probably not trade it to Huayna.

Once I finished the Kremlin I went to see our cute little trading partner to see if I could sucker her into giving me another tech. Turns out I could, if only half a tech and some money. :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_16_Trade.jpg

I was still doing well in production (the down spike is me whipping the Pentagon I think, or civics change?).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_17_Production.jpg

But Huayna had plans of his own.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_18_Dam.jpg

I decided to take out some of his production (copper mine) and later some food too to slow him down.

Then the show was back on, with me on the losing side it seemed. Tanks & gunships & planes & SAM vs Infantry & Cavalry & Cannons. Not looking very peachy.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_19_Stack.jpg

And sure enough...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_20_War.jpg

Well, at least I didn't have to fight both Ragnar and Huayna, though Ragnar was Furious with me and he will probably join in the party later on.

Weird enough, I launched a Golden Age in the middle of this war. I desperately needed the bonus to keep up with the incoming flow of units. I hadn't yet pillaged the Oil wells and that island oil looked hard to take (he had a city on it).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_21_Golden_Age.jpg

There was less action in this war - at least so far. I managed to get the bigger navy and flooded his shores, so I was able to deprive him of some tiles. I still have to pillage a Clam tile to set him even more backward in health. He was going to have big problems in that department.

On the other hand the land war was going pretty bad for me. My captured city held on, but I got frequent Tank or Helicopter incursions which really damaged my supply lines toward the city. I decided to go for fighters and bombers as the only chance to get back on the offensive. I'm almost there, 5 turns to Radio and already started building fighters. I got tanks too, but still had no good answer to Gunships. The only bright spot of the war so far is finally leaving Huayna oil-less with two pillager Spies and one Marine force invasion.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/R8_22_Oilless.jpg

I lost one Spy trying to destroy his Alluminium supply, but I'll get another one ready the next turn. I plan on keeping him without oil and disrupting his food sources when possible, but his very close to Robotics. Another headache for me.

I'll post a state of the world in a few minutes.

State of the World: 1916AD

First, a look at what I'm building. Mostly units with the occasional happiness building. I might move the culture slider up a little but that shouldn't be a permanent solution if I still have happiness buildings available.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_01_Builds.jpg

Relations are still bad with Ragnar. I'm going to try to get my vassals on better terms with Hatty. She only has the demerit from close borders and vassals with me but she's only Pleased. She also won't go to war for anything, probably because she completed the Apollo Program in 1904.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_02_Relations.jpg

I got another Great General in the meantime that I settled in Utica for level 5 units (3XP from barracks + 4XP WP + 2*2XP from MIs + 2XP from Pentagon = 13XP).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_03_GG.jpg

That makes: 2 super Medics, 2 Military Academies (London & Nottingham), 3 MIs (2 in Utica, 1 in London - when did I get this one?!) and one mass promotion in times of trouble for a total of 8 Great Generals so far. I have two other MAs in Karakorum and Ulundi thanks to Genghis and Shaka.

On the scientific front, I'm thinking of Composites as my only military way. Forget about Robotics and head for Modern Armor & Invisible Bombers. I'll try to get Plastics from Hatty to speed my way there.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_04_Composites.jpg

Thanks to the Golden Age I'm topping two of the most important stats: GNP and production. Can't be bad, eh?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_05_GNP.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_06_Production.jpg

I'm still way lower on power, but maybe if I can keep Huayna from building tanks and gunships I can have a chance. I need lots of planes to counter his incoming Mechanized Infantry.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_07_Power.jpg

Here's an overall look at the demographics. I'm still behind in land and not sure if that's gonna change. :)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_08_Demographics.jpg

My losses are still ok so far. And I'm making Huayna pay for every incursion in my territory. Let's hope I can get on the offensive at some point, as this attrition war isn't helping me at all.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_09_Losses.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_10_Kills.jpg

And finally, a look at Huayna's health problems. Notice that he only has one bananas tile, one clam that's about to get pillaged, one corn, one sheep and one wheat. If I manage to pillage some of those it could get fun. :D

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round8/State%20of%20the%20World/R8_SotW_11_Huayna_Health.jpg

That's it for today. Any ideas on how to win this are more than welcome.

Round 6: 1420AD - 1595AD


Oh, and here's New Sarai:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round6/R6_12_New_Sarai.jpg

That's one crappy city! What was he thinking?!?



Question.
If New Sarai is not his capital then what is?
It is missing the star on the pop.

If you take a look at the minimap in that image you can see two brown patches in the South-East corner. He had two cities there on islands, one of them being the capital. I was eager to get to Shaka so I decided to stop the war. I don't think I even had Astronomy at that point. I posted the image about New Sarai since he wanted to give it to me in the peace treaty but I had no idea where it was.

Ok thanks.

It finally ended. 18 hours and 18 minutes of play, I think more than I played on some of my Marathon speed games! Anyway, I'll post the update tomorrow, I'm way too tired from playing the final session. Modern wars are madness to manage...

Round 9: 1916AD - 1960AD

So, I started this round still at war with Huayna Capac. I was still building my navy and was also trying to keep Huayna from going too deep with his pillagers. Fortunately I managed to cut all his oil sources, which meant no more tanks or gunships.

You can see the first effect in the next screenshot; there was no pillaging attack on the next turn. Not that there was anything left to pillage anyway.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_01_No_Counter.jpg

He did send a couple of bombers against the Vilcabamba defenders, but those can easily take care of themselves. And I was starting to have some fighters set to intercept there. Wait until I get bombers and then he'll pay for all this pillaging.

There was trouble elsewhere though. Hatty's peaceful ways led her to the first piece of the spaceship: an SS Casing, and later another one were built. The clock is ticking.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_02_Casing.jpg

Back on the war front, I checked to see what Huayna would give me for peace. I'm still not ready to go after his coastal cities as I don't have enough marines, and my air fleet is still in the making. Unfortunately he wouldn't part with any of the techs, but 1000 gold come in handy anyway.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_03_Peace.jpg

Despite our "Peace Treaty" I still continued to pillage his two oil wells whenever he would rebuild them. Oh, and since Hatty declared that Ragnar was her worst enemy I decided to relieve Huayna of some of his excess gold.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_04_Crabs.jpg

On the other side of the continent a small Mongolian town decided it wanted to be ruled directly by the master... and got disbanded. It really wouldn't make a good city; heck, that's why I razed the first one that was built nearby!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_05_Disbanded.jpg

Ulundi's multiple wonders and specialists got me another Great Engineer. I saved him in view of either one of the late game wonders or another Golden Age. The only problem with the latter is that since I'm using mostly Engineer specialists I was likely to get more of those, and I needed three different GPs for my next Golden Age.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_06_GE.jpg

Back to Huayna I saw he got Mechanized Infantry as predicted. Even without Tanks and Gunships any future wars are going to be pretty tough.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_07_MechInf.jpg

Oh, and what's he building in that little border city?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_08_Apollo_Pogram.jpg

That's right, the Apollo Program! He did in fact start to build it in a core city earlier, but his wars with me delayed its completion. Why did he now choose this city for it is beyond my understanding.

Next on the research agenda we finally got our Radios which meant Bombers were now the build of the year.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_09_Radio.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_11_Air.jpg

I then set research for Computers, hoping to trade it later for some of the techs along the Composites path. But I couldn't refuse trading Flight for Biology to Hatty. A little more population can't hurt anybody.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_10_Hatty_Trade.jpg

And after I acquired a decent number of bombers, and built two marine invasion fleets (one with mainly Utica forces, the other one with mainly Karakorum marines) it was that time again:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_12_War_Huayna.jpg

First things first: bomb's away!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_13_Bombs_Away.jpg

Followed by the first sneak attack. I razed the city and unfortunately had to leave my man behind. He'll be remembered.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_14_Sneak_Attack.jpg

Along with the other marines from the second invasion force. Unfortunately this one had to go around to get to the Northern cities afterward, since Ragnar blocked a more direct way along the shoreline.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_15_Burn.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

A couple of turns later I realized that the Eiffel Tower hasn't yet been built, and I was certainly going to need the happiness later on, so I spent my GE on it and adjusted tiles to finish it in two turns.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_16_Eiffel.jpg

The Southern fleet was happily continuing its war games, without bomber support this time. Again, razed and moved on. I was just aiming to cripple Huayna's production, not to take cities that would be engulfed in his culture anyway.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_17_Next_Stop.jpg

And I finally got around to mounting an inland attack. Despite bringing in a few defenders after razing that city I had quite a few losses. He was using his fighters and bombers again and my only protection were the Vilcabamba interceptors.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_18_Inland.jpg

Then my Northern fleet made its way around Ragnar's islands and starting doing some damage of its own.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_19_Backstab.jpg

Remember what I said about expecting to get GEs? Here's another one. He got sent to Karakorum in case we need to build something big in there. All cultural wonders had already been built, so he had to wait a bit.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_20_GE.jpg

All the fighting got me another Great General which was settled in Karakorum for 7XP Marines, one XP away from another promotion.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_21_GG_MI.jpg

And all was well on the Northern front. I skipped a few smaller cities deciding to only raze the big ones and not waste my Marines.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_22_Another_One.jpg

My inland force went for Versailles next. I still didn't want to keep any cities since my bombers could still reach far enough to reduce defenses and soften Huayna's units. So Versailles city got razed too.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_23_Versailles.jpg

Then I noticed something that happened on the previous turn.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_24_First.jpg

I was first in score! Go me! Finally I could win on Time... :p

Aaaanyway, back to the war, I razed the last two Eastern cities and built another one in a slightly more central location to fill the gaps. I had two other Settlers prepared as I didn't want Ragnar or Hatty to get any weird ideas and settle there.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_25_Back_Yard.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_26_Yet_Another_One.jpg

And then it was time to keep my first (actually second after Vilcabamba) Incan city. My bombers weren't reaching Huayna's troops anymore and I was in sight of his capital's huge artillery force so I needed some backup. Once I took it I moved most of my Vilcabamba defenders in it, hoping I could survive the counter, heal with the aid of one of the super Medics, and go on the offensive once I got things secured.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_27_A_Keep_and_UN.jpg

By the way, Huayna has just built the UN. I was pretty sure I could get elected Secretary General with Hatty's help, so it was all the better. Had Hatty built it it would have been a totally different affair.

And then, just as my advanced defenders were... eh... defending... Ragnar finally had enough and decided to join the party.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_28_War_Ragnar.jpg

The southern fleet (healing in my territory with nothing left to do) immediately set in motion and revealed these incoming troops.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_29_Incoming.jpg

[to be continued...]

[...continued from previous post]

I considered what to do for a while and decided that two wars were one too many. I tried to convince Huayna to give me a tech or at least a part of a tech, but all I got from him was money and Memphis (Egyptian) which I promptly return to its rightful owner. It did have the Confucian shrine in it - juicy - but it was going to be under huge Egyptian pressure so I decided Hatty could use it better than I.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_30_Peace.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_31_Gift.jpg

Seeing that I could hold off the pitiful Viking attacks I planted another city in the Marine-cleared North. I was still quite far from a Domination win, but every tile would count.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_32_Backfill.jpg

Then in 1955 it was time for the first World Elections. Guess who I voted for.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_33_Elections.jpg

And with a little help from my friends (and vassals) I got elected Secretary General! The world loves me! Ahem...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_34_Secretary_General.jpg

Of course, the thread isn't named Great Generals test for nothing, so the war still continued. I got another GG settled in London for level 4 Marines (3XP barracks + 2XP Pentagon + 2*2XP MIs = 9XP).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_35_Last_GG.jpg

Of course I didn't wait for these marines to launch the Southern fleet. I just secured the North and sent most Marines from there with it. I would be able to do more damage on that front than against a few isolated Viking islands in the NW.

I also got rid of the thorny airbase that Ragnar had planted in the (former) middle of Huayna territory, then sent my bombers to do some pillaging from a distant Egyptian island.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_36_Thorn.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_37_Bomb_Squad.jpg

And then it was election time again. Tired of all the fighting, I decided to give Diplomatic Victory a shot. Maybe not a very graceful end, but it would save me hours and hours of further fighting.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_38_Elections_Part_II.jpg

...fighting that still claimed its first Southern Viking city.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_39_Last_City.jpg

And then in 1959, after 8 wars and tons of Great Generals, the world decided I was fit to lead them as a great diplomat. Can't argue with the world...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_40_Diplomatic_Victory.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_41_Victory.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_42_Chief.jpg

Post mortem statistics and Great Generals musings to come soon.

Post Mortem

First of all, remember at the beginning of the game I thought one of Hannibal's cities had flipped to Hatty? It turns out it really did. Not a very bright move putting a city near a creative civ's capital...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_43_Hippo_Revolt.jpg

And now let's see what the graphs tell us.
As you can see my little naval forays into Huayna's territory left me the undisputed leader in terms of production. Also, look how powerful that last Golden Age was. It was clearly worth it.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_44_Mfg.jpg

Power-wise Huayna's fall is no less impressive once I started going around his shores. And keep in mind that I didn't have the time to set up a proper army with Carriers and Fighters on them to strike before I attacked his coastal cities.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_45_Power.jpg

And for the last 50 turns:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_46_Power_Last_50.jpg

There was a brief period right before the war with Ragnar in which I started building infrastructure instead of units, hoping to get a little more research and gold for future upgrades (Tanks -> Modern Armor, Infantry -> Mechanized Infantry, Fighters & Bombers to their modern equivalents). As it turned out I haven't even reached that point. I was still at Satellites, mainly because I had nothing to trade for with Hatty that would speed things up a little. The moment I got Computers she wouldn't give me more than a few hundred bucks for it.

Here's a look at the final demographics. In addition to production I'm now first by far in Land Area and Population, and also have the soldiers to take on anyone (but not everyone at once. get in line.).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_47_Demographics.jpg

My losses in this game look pretty impressive...

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_48_Losses.jpg

...until you see the kills:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_49_Kills.jpg

Considering the fact that the last few wars were fought with inferior troops I'd say I did pretty good.

The score isn't something to brag about (in fact, it's one of my lowest winning scores ever).

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/radu_stancu/Civ4/Great%20Generals/Churchill/Round9/R9_50_Score.jpg

But hey, I'm still a Caesar, so I'll accept the score with pride. :D It's not often that you get a decent enough opponent like Huayna in this game. And the fact that we were on the same continent certainly made things harder. I'm used to have total naval supremacy by this time and thus I fight intercontinental wars solely on the opponent's terrain. This was actually pretty new for me. My offline game with Toku - Fractal map but one big continent with me and all the AIs - never got to this stage as it finished with me having Infantry and that was it.

As for Great Generals, let's see how I used them:

- the first two got spent on super Medics (Chariots with Medic III and Morale) which ensured I could a) keep up the war against Genghis with Cavalry against Riflemen; b) fight on two fronts against Shaka and finish that war very early; c) heal two big defending stacks in the last wars (London and Nottingham at the beginning, then London and Vilcabamba as the front moved onward). I could have used them to heal my Marines from the two naval forces, but they would face either very low odds at first or very good odds after the first wave. So they were either dead or pretty healthy anyway. The situation would have been different had I had Fighters on Carriers with the fleets but I highly overestimated Huayna's navy and built too many Destroyers/Battleships.

- Utica became a super military city, with HE for fast production and WP and 2 Great Generals settled as MIs to pump out level 5 units. (I had the Pentagon too) Next level would mean 20XP, so 4 additional MIs to get it. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been worth it.

- London and Nottingham both got Military Academies, and London was also raised to a heavy military city when it got two Military Instructors for level 4 units. Since they were the two closest cities to the Huayna border, I think it was the best choice.

- Karakorum already had a Military Academy through no fault of my own (ok, maybe it was because of my war...), and later got a Military Instructor of its own. The northern military fleet had to take on quite a few cities and didn't have the benefit of the highly powered marines from Utica, so they had to make do with 7XP marines from Karakorum.

- Ulundi also had a Military Academy but built by Shaka. It was not productive enough, nor near enough to the front to warrant spending a GG as MI in it.

- and there was that crazy mass promotion that saved a stack from the initial Incan attack by allowing the units who got promotions to heal part of their wounds.

That's a total of 10 Great Generals, 9 earned through war and one from Fascism. Pretty impressive for a none Imperialistic leader, but then again I did fight a lot of late game wars.