Ok, so here's the official thread for the first LBD (let's be different) challenge.

Leader: Brennus

Traits: Spiritual and Charismatic

Techs: Hunting and Mysticism

UU: Gallic Warrior; replaces swords, starts with guerrilla (gorilla) promotion, can be built with copper or iron

UB: Dun; replaces walls, gives units guerrilla promotion (makes them gorillas)

Settings: Emperor/Continents/Normal/Standard/Default

Goals:

As per the other thread, we will be COMPELLED this game to use every means possible to increase our happiness. This doesn't mean we'll have 100 units per city under hereditary rule, but it does mean we will use hereditary rule. It will also mean we will be compelled to do different things, such as generate a GA to lightbulb music to build notre dame. Stuff like that.

In the archaic age, here are the means of happiness:

Ivory, gold, silver, fur, gems, state religion, temples, representation (pyramids), Charismatic trait (1 free, 1 from monuments)

We are charismatic and start with mysticism so monuments are key and stonehenge is debatable. Going hindu/buddha is also debatable. I think since we should be compelled towards happiness that we should go hindu/buddha despite the poor starting worker techs. We will try for all the available happiness resources and prioritize priesthood for temples and oracle. Dunno about pyramids, probably not.


Opening:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4708/lbdopening0000wp5.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lbdopening0000wp5.jpg)

NOTE: We have marble in capital, so we should definitely nab oracle and can also debate the other early marble-based wonders!!! Parthenon anyone???

Save:

Attached


Please discuss!!!

EDIT: P.S., I'm using Image Shack. Anyone know how to make the picture larger? Thks.

With your focus on happiness, your cities are going to grow large. Use marble to grab the ToA in your coastal capital, of course! What were you thinking? :mischief:

wow what a crazy opening spot.. get those fish and crab resources up and whip like crazy!!! settlers.. temples.. wow dude I wish I had that much food sometimes!! good luck i'll be following the thread

thanks for posting your game

NaZ

With your focus on happiness, your cities are going to grow large. Use marble to grab the ToA in your coastal capital, of course! What were you thinking? :mischief:

I was thinking: "This is supposed to be let's be different and Aelf already did a ToA game" :lol:

and, seriously, who builds parthenon? :lol:

anyways, i'm open for discussion and ToA is definitely an option.

Ok, well, I need some discussion before starting :)

My inclination is to go for polytheism first. Gives us a shot at hinduism and unlocks both early marble wonders. We'll need masonry to obtain marble and mining-bronze to chop, but when to get these?

I'd like to put in a vote for parthenon for two reasons.

1) Most people seem to never build it.

2) It will generate a GA which we can use on lightbulbing music for notre dame.

Don't despair. People have plans for Saturday nights. I do. I'll try to take a look at this later. :)

Question that immediately comes to mind: If we're doing it for the :) are we ruling out slavery? High food and no slavery would make me a sad panda, but then again.. challenges aren't supposed to be easy.

Either way, if we go for religons early and have some food, the capital would make a good candidate for a gold farm. On the other hand.. fish + plains hills may make this city a great early production city.. it would depend on what the other tiles reveal.

If you can help it, I wouldn't settle ON a resource, but I don't like the look of those tundra-style forests.. move the scout NW+NW or NW+N and see what you get.

Edit: And in the spirit of the challenge, the first build should unquestionably be a monument.

Coastal start, marble, a ton of food, and a happiness-crazy variant? Sounds like perfect ToA territory to me too.

But... I'd wait to find out what/who else is around before committing to any such choices. If it turns out you're alone, or you only have untrustworthy nutcases for neighbours, then a trade-based wonder may not be the best approach...

Since you want :) , and start with mysticism, a shot at Hinduism has got to be worth a go. The nightmare scenario would be finding yourself stuck on a continent with no religions (as I did recently), so grabbing one for yourself is definitely the way to go. It's a pity you're not Spanish, as this start would be perfect for a hydra.

Since the forests and seafood can provide hammers, food and commerce without worker-improvements, I'd delay your first worker a while to keep the city growing.

Tech-path? Polytheism-Fishing looks straightforward enough, but would it be worth going for Masonry-Monotheism next to have a go at Judaism? As you said, you need the former to get the marble hooked up; so why not have a shot at another religion? The danger, I suppose, is that you could not only miss out on the religions, but also on the marble wonders thanks to a lack of whip and chop.

Alternatively, you could go fishing first, and try to get Judaism as your religion instead of Hinduism. This would have the advantage of getting your city growing earlier, and increasing your tech-rate sooner. Perhaps Fishing-Mining-BW-Poly-Masonry-Mon? Or is that a little too ambitious for Emperor?

Ok, good discussion so far. I would want to limit slavery, yes, and instead prefer to always grow to max size. We can still use slavery at the limits of our happiness. With so much happiness we want to put it to good use ;) That's not to say that is the only way we can use the happiness though. What about whipping more often accumulating 2+ :( from whipping? Normally that's avoided, but if we have a lot of extra :) then maybe that's an option?

I don't like settling on resources either. However, in this case I'd strongly consider it. When going for early wonders putting down a quarry (8turns) and road (2+ turns) just takes a long time. In this case it's 0 turns, no quarry, no roads. I wouldn't mind trying to make a run at multiple early marble-based wonders ;) We'll see, we'll see ;)

I wouldn't mind making a run at judaism, but we really are gonna need some worker techs at some point as well...It's hard to say, we do want to be different after all ;)

I think going polytheism first would give us the most options. It might found us a religion and it gives us access to two wonders and is a prereq to priesthood for orace --> all good imo.

What about delaying bronze and anhusb for a bit and doing archery instead? if we go for monotheism early then it would make sense to go archery for defense...

I definitely want us to be compelled towards :) but that doesn't mean necessarily that we have to do things like build monument first in our capital. We can still build :) as we need it to a certain extent I think. Basically, I want us to still play as solid as possible but prioritizing much different things than most people do.

I'd really like to see us build the sistine chapel this game as well. Another lesser-built wonder.

How many people build parthenon + sistine chapel + notre dame in most of their games? It's not to say it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't be the majority I would reckon ;)

Choices, choices.

Basically, I think the things we need to decide before I play the first round is:

1) Which early wonders to we want to prioritize?

2) Do we want to make a run at both hinduism and judaism?

3) What do we want to rely on for military? Warriors? Archers? Look for copper or horses?

Other comments are of course welcome :D

we really are gonna need some worker techs at some point as well...


Chopping and mines! Who needs anything else when you've got that much seafood?! :D

^^yeah, those are the two main ones i was thinking about ;) possibly the wheel :p

1) Which early wonders to we want to prioritize?

2) Do we want to make a run at both hinduism and judaism?


1) ToA or Parthenon. Which one depends on what you can find out about the neighbourhood before you have to make the choice.

If you choose ToA, then the Great Lighthouse as well would be awesome, and probably fairly easy to get, since a lighthouse will be needed soon enough anyway (being worth a minimum of 3 food per turn). But, as you say, aelf has already covered that ground.

The Oracle is the other obvious choice. I haven't tried it on Warlords yet, but I assume you could still do a CoL slingshot to get Confucianism. More religions has got to be a good thing in a :) game. Plus those high-road techs do include lots of happiness-boosting stuff (including Notre Dame). You talked about taking the low-road to Optics on the other thread, but in this case your need for :) could be better served by a different route.

2) Depends whether you think you can pull it off at the same time as going for whichever wonder(s) you choose to go for. If you can do it without neglecting some other crucial tasks, then why not?

The real advantage of your starting position, imo, is that you've got everything you need sitting right there without having to stall city growth for an early worker. You only need one tech (Fishing) and one build (Workboat) and you've got enough :food: :hammers: & :commerce: available for a strong start.

Settling on the marble is great. Not only does it save you building a worker to get it, but you'll get an extra hammer from the city tile. All that sea-food will allow you to keep growing even while working a hill forest or two.

Consequently, the first thing you're likely to need a worker for is chopping a couple of forests to grab your chosen wonder, by which point you'll be able to knock that worker out much quicker. If there's a choice city spot nearby then you might even consider building a settler before your first worker. :D

Yeah, the question is what are our plans for getting that first settler out? We clearly need one to give us some more production while we're building wonders...

Don't worry about emulating what happened in EMC3. That was before 2.08 and I relied on the Great Wall's 2 GPP to get a GE to hurry the ToA. Things are going to be different in your game. And, most likely you can only choose one early wonder. IMO, with marble and a coastal capital, the ToA wins over the Great Lighthouse and the Parthenon. Later on, you could possibly build the Great Library as well.

Later on, you could possibly build the Great Library as well.


Maybe it's just my imagination, but doesn't everyone seem to build that these days? ;)

The thing about the parthenon is that it would give us the GA we need for music...

The thing about the parthenon is that it would give us the GA we need for music...

I know. But is that the best strategy? You map is screaming for a trade route game, which is actually in line with your growth strategy anyway. The Great Library, if you do get to build it, is just a bonus.

This game isn't about the best strategy necessarily though ;) It's about being different :)

EDIT: 1st priority in our game will be to do everything possible to increase happiness. Beyond that, everything is open to discussion. One wonder we have to get is notre dame and that means getting music first, which means first generating a GA. Seeing as how we have marble I think Parthenon makes sense here. Hopefully build parthenon in 2nd city and Oracle in capital. Nab CoL and adopt caste system. Work an artist or two in parthenon city...GA!

Thoughts?

Ok everyone, I'm going to start on this game either later today or tomorrow, so if you have any (further) advice, please share it asap :D

Here is my thinking so far, please critique:

Research: Polyth-Fishing-Mining-Wheel-Bronze-Masonry-Priest-Writing

I feel if we make a run at judaism that we will lose out on the wonders due to no chopping. We also need wheel and masonry to get marble to our 2nd city.

(Don't need masonry until ready to chop; order of mining-wheel probably doesn't matter much since worker won't be out anyways, but we need them first; order of bronze/masonry probably doesn't matter first cuz we won't chop til masonry anyways. Hmm...do we need masonry to get the +1 hammer from the capital? If so, could put masonry in earlier)

Build:

-Capital: Warrior-Warrior-Workboat-Settler-Worker

-New city: Monument-Worker-Warrior-Warrior-Parthenon (hopefully can get these two barb-busters out in time to still chop parthenon!)

Goals: Establish defences and 2nd city; hook up cities to get marble in 2nd city; Parthenon in 2nd city, Oracle in first (CoL)

Oracle-CoL IS pretty standard, but imo we're doing it for the GA which isn't as standard so it's cool :p

Please let me know what you think as I am open to changing things based on what everyone else thinks :D

Good thread so far... I do think there's something to be said for Monotheism in that it provides Judaism AND Organized Religion which can be extremely helpful due to the immediate switch from Spiritual. I still like the religious monopoly idea for a non-warring game... OR also provides cheap Missionaries for easy religion spread....

I do think that the Priest vs. Artist debate is a little of a misnomer (sorry can't think of the right word)... you can generate one of each pretty easily in time to get Music and a shrine is important for the happiness it can provide. The issue with ToA is the GM vs. GP. I normally get a GP, but you can just as easily get a GM. ToA + Oracle is pretty much a lock for a Priest.

I am also wondering whether CoL is such a big deal... Theaters provide 2 Artists and is on the path to Music. With Parthenon and some artists, GAs will be flowing pretty easy.:D

Hey, an early GM rocks too.

Ok everyone, I'm going to start on this game either later today or tomorrow, so if you have any (further) advice, please share it asap :D


Sounds to me like you've got your plan. Barring any inspired ideas cropping up, I'd say go for it.

One minor thing: don't forget to use the workboat on the fishes rather than the crabs. :smoke:

What about going MC and forges (for :) ) instead of CoL?

What do other people think about going straight for monoth? Will we be able to get our wonders, incl oracle if we do this?

What about going MC and forges (for :) ) instead of CoL?


Well, you could wait to see if there's gold, gems or silver about, before making the choice. If you don't have any nearby, then MC wouldn't be so attractive. Otherwise, and since you're bending your strategy to go for maximum happiness, then it's a question of whether you'll get more :) from forges than from Confucianism. It might also be worth bearing in mind that you'll get the forges at some point anyway, whereas you might never get Confucianism in any of your cities.

Yeah, that's a good point. We do want to try and monopolize religions.

Well, what do people think about our odds of getting our wonders if we go for judaism outright? Can we fit in fishing if we go for judaism?

Poly-fish-masonry-monoth-wheel-mining-priest/bronze-writing?

Can we make it? What about barbs?

Poly-fish-masonry-monoth-wheel-mining-priest/bronze-writing?

Can we make it?


It's certainly ambitious... I guess that it could be done with some carefully timed micromanagement and a fistful of luck. The second city will be crucial; if there's no good spots nearby, or if you need to research other techs (agriculture/AH) to make the city viable, it's going to be very tough to win all of those races in quick succession.

You really need more information before you can make the choice, imo. Poly-Fish is a given, and the first builds are straightforward (don't forget to switch to Workboat and work those :hammers: as soon as you get fishing). So why not play a few turns and see what you find?

Alright! I will do it.

I'll play poly-fish and then will post an update.

Ok, Here is round one. Played to poly-fish. Started off building nothing but warriors since our building priorities will be tied up once we get some techs online...And not to mention that we don't know when we'll actually get a military tech/resource...

Early on we got some good luck from a goody hut:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Poppedanhusbfromhut0000.jpg

This is pretty huge imo although I don't see horses nearby, which is too bad.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBDMetRagnar0000.jpg

This could make being peaceful difficult early...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBDVicky0000.jpg

Not too bad...

First objective nailed down!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBDHinduism0000.jpg

And fishing...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBDFishing0000.jpg

Candidates for 2nd city site. Not great surrounding land. We have gold and fur so we must be compelled toward them somehow! But, how?!

1st candidate: On plains hill, gets furs, deer, and corn, but limited chops.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD2ndcitycandidate1onplainshill000.jpg

2nd candidate: Not on plains hill, but more chops and gets gold on 2nd border expansion.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD2ndcitycandidate2gold2ndborderpo.jpg

3rd candidate: On another plains hill. Gets furs and gold on 2nd border pop:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD2ndcitycandidate3plainshillfuran.jpg

Known world, with Ragnar nearby:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBDKnownworldNoteRagnar0000.jpg

Ok, so what now?!?! :) Nothing like desert + peaks + tundra + ice to give you lots of options, eh? ;)

I like spot #2, with a prospective location for your 3rd city between the pigs & rice w/ incense access.

:eek: After getting a tasty starting site, the surrounding area has turned out to be horrible. You've got barren, featureless terrain to the north and south, and very little useful space between you and Ragnar. If he should get a settler out there first, then you could be left with no strong site for your second city and a barrier to further expansion.

In that case, you'd surely have to invade asap.

On the other hand, if you can nail a good central spot (maybe 1SW of #3, if it's not too far), you'll open up a path to the south and create a little space in which another city or two could eventually be settled.

If Ragnar is on the coast, then it looks like a straight fight for control of the north, so I'd definitely prepare for war sooner rather than later. With no horses, you'd better hope there's some metal nearby or things could get nasty. If you do find some, then I'd start getting ready to go after the Vikings as soon as you've got your cities in good shape.

For the Oracle tech (assuming you get it), I'd say go MC unless you miss out on Judaism. Since you've got gold, the forges will satisfy your :) needs, whilst helping you get those troops and buildings ready more quickly.

I suggest you found a corn/gold city. Working a gold mine is just too big an advantage to be missing out on early in the game.

Ok guys, before I play the next round here's what I need:

1) Agreement on 2nd city site location

2) Agreement on tech path. Do we include monoth in an attempt at judaism?

3) Agreement on wonder decision. Basically it boils down to ToA vs. Parthenon since we're gonna go oracle I'm sure.

We may want to generate a prophet first for theology instead of a GA first. We should be able to get music with 2nd gp: a GA generated from CoL/caste system. Reasoning is to get sistine chapel which has nice syngery with parthenon and cultural victory. It doesn't do much for happiness, but we do have marble so it'll be cheap. Notre Dame is a stone-based wonder, so we'll have to keep our eye out for stone and if not, forests...

I come in a bit late, but here are my general rules for happiness:
- land is power (really! you want to cover as many happiness bonuses as possible as early as possible!)
- mathematics -> currency and construction. Why construction? because you want a colosseum soon... and because it gives elephants with ivory. You didn't spot any elephants out there? too bad! explore some more towards jungle, they usually hide there (behind the leaves) :). It's giving a good synergy to your research path.
- if you go for oracle, you take monarchy as free tech. Why? because of HR for one thing, because of wine for another happiness boost and because it's on the way to feudalism. Did you know that vassals give happiness? Of course you did, but you plan on a peaceful game. I don't agree. Happiness is better found on the bodies of your enemies ;)

Edit : if going for cultural, you really want those religions early. If they are in your cities, you have an easier day! Most of what I wrote above is irrelevant.

Ha! This game may need to be aggressive because of the landscape as well. Cultural victory is less often done, but Ragnar may dictate otherwise anyways ;)

I like a good cultural win after an early rampage.
It's easier to have 7 religions when you have 30 cities :mischief:

lolz, true enough!

Hey, an early GM rocks too.

That s/he does... :lol:

I think the gold/corn city would be the best next site... unfortunately there aren't tons of good options. I would then focus on building cities south along the west side of the desert.

I still think Monoth is a good option, but obviously it will set you further down one path. I don't see any stone or marble which is a knock against it as Masonry proves useless then given wonder choices.

I like Oracle + ToA for wonders. Oracle probably should lead to CoL given your start and the distance from your capital caused by desert.

I would eliminate Ragnar and then try to stop warring after that assuming you have the 9 cities for cultural win.

My 2:gold:.

OK, i didn't read the discussion thread before making my stupid assesments here.

If you have a shot at judaism, go for it!
I did it (with gandhi, it's much easier :lol:) and managed a nice cultural victory with absolutely no fight (exception : barbarians, and even very few of them thanks to the great wall!). The only difficulty was to get enough cities. I didn't manage 9, only got 8, but that was enough thanks to philo (earlier artists!).

You want happiness, and that's cool. But for what?
When you'll start going for culture (no SE this time please!) you'll have something over 20 happiness in every theatre city. Should be enough IMHO.

Health will be a bigger problem!

Ok, I'm thinking to shoot for judaism and attempt a GP as first gp for theology lightbulb for sistine chapel. Sound ok? This would give us 2 more religions hopefully and another one from oracle--col. GA second for music lb and notre dame (gets priority if can't build both). GA from music on divine right for yet another religion. If possible 3rd gp a GS for philosophy lightbulb. We may lose that one... Perhaps we can self-research music and get GS with 2nd gp for philo. But do we risk an ai lightbulbing music?

As for what to do with all the happiness...

This is the crux of what we're trying to do here, so that's where I'd like the main discussion to be.

We have tons of :) how do we leverage it? Maybe cultural victory isn't the best idea?

Maybe we should plan on being aggressive instead. With very high :) we can manage high WW and earlier on if we run FE (bad landscape for it so far) we can do extra whipping and absorb the :( caused from whipping.

What else could we do with really high :) ???

right!
cultural don't call for high :) because you use the slider and gain loads of it anyway.
The :) is good for war because :
- you can sustain WW easier
- you can whip and draft with little to none penalty
- you can grow bigger = more power = easier to impress your neighbours = easy vassals

Well, vassals DO give :) and the point of the thread is maximum :) not cultural victory, so as long as everyone agrees, I'm ok with going militaristic.

The question is, does that change our short-term goals?!?!?!

Well, vassals DO give :) and the point of the thread is maximum :) not cultural victory, so as long as everyone agrees, I'm ok with going militaristic.

The question is, does that change our short-term goals?!?!?!

well, yes.
For cultural, temple > fur. For shere happiness, fur > temple.
If you want max happiness, go for land.
This means BW.
oracle is still a good wonder for monarchy.

I'm reluctant to oracle monarchy since the ai always seem to prioritize that tech. However, this is the :) challenge, so maybe we should do that.

Basically, once we get some sort of consensus on what we should be doing, I'll play the next round. I want to avoid making mistakes during the critical early period.

I'm reluctant to oracle monarchy since the ai always seem to prioritize that tech.
true enough
MC may be better, and forges do give happiness :)

Yes, yes they do :)

Well, vassals DO give :) and the point of the thread is maximum :) not cultural victory, so as long as everyone agrees, I'm ok with going militaristic.

The question is, does that change our short-term goals?!?!?!


Using the extra :) to combat WW would be much more interesting than going for a cultural victory, imo. The culture slider is obviously a huge source of happiness, but turtling up and running it at 100% isn't exactly a new idea...

The bonus from vassals would also be a really cool way to get more :) . And with all of the different sources stacking up, you should be able to whip out plenty of troops, and fight long wars without too many WW problems.

What's not to like? :D

Does it change the short term goals? I'd say no. Unless Ragnar lands a city that cuts off all the decent spots, you'll want to get those religions and wonders in place before you make your move.

The real disaster will be if you don't have any metals nearby; invading Ragnar with only longbows and cats does not sound like a :) thing to do... :rolleyes:

Edit: What are your plans for the economy? With increased happy caps, the Parthenon, and a warlike agenda, farms and specialists look like a good option to me...

What's wrong with invading with pretty much pure catas? I do it all the time! :lol:

Yes, I think FE is best way to go this game. It will help us grow to max :) and also let us abuse whipping.

Ok, so instead of parthenon, I think we should go with ToA and try and get a prophet or merchant first. Then oracle-col which will help with our expansion...

I still need a confirmed 2nd city placement however...

If we can get 6 total cities without going to war, I think it might be best if we play peaceful until liberalism. It will allow us to get feudalism without beelining = quick vassalization. I suggest what Snaaty said in another thread: Basically, get 6 cities peacefully if possible (or not if not) and then go liberalism-nationalism with goal of getting miltrad asap. Then use cav to vassal whoever's on our continent.

Sound ok?

What's wrong with invading with pretty much pure catas? I do it all the time! :lol:

Yes, I think FE is best way to go this game. It will help us grow to max :) and also let us abuse whipping.

Ok, so instead of parthenon, I think we should go with ToA and try and get a prophet or merchant first. Then oracle-col which will help with our expansion...

I still need a confirmed 2nd city placement however...

If we can get 6 total cities without going to war, I think it might be best if we play peaceful until liberalism. It will allow us to get feudalism without beelining = quick vassalization. I suggest what Snaaty said in another thread: Basically, get 6 cities peacefully if possible (or not if not) and then go liberalism-nationalism with goal of getting miltrad asap. Then use cav to vassal whoever's on our continent.

Sound ok?

sounds OK, but to be in the line of the variant, you need to have happy resources in those 6 cities.
I allow you the possible exception of "metal city".;)

Well, I'm going to secure the furs and the gold. Don't see any other :) sources yet, but if I do I will beeline them for sure.

Of course Ragnar may dictate our game to us... ;)

:goodjob: What's wrong with invading with pretty much pure catas? I do it all the time! :lol:

Yes, I think FE is best way to go this game. It will help us grow to max :) and also let us abuse whipping.

Ok, so instead of parthenon, I think we should go with ToA and try and get a prophet or merchant first. Then oracle-col which will help with our expansion...

I still need a confirmed 2nd city placement however...

If we can get 6 total cities without going to war, I think it might be best if we play peaceful until liberalism. It will allow us to get feudalism without beelining = quick vassalization. I suggest what Snaaty said in another thread: Basically, get 6 cities peacefully if possible (or not if not) and then go liberalism-nationalism with goal of getting miltrad asap. Then use cav to vassal whoever's on our continent.

Sound ok?

sounds great (patting own shoulder):goodjob:

concerning city placement:

try to build your initial 4 cities in a way, that you have 2 reserved spots for later settlement (if possible). That helps to save money


don´t go for cultural. If you manage to tech up fast enough to mil.trad and gunpowder go berserk

"What else could we do with really high :) " Whip, whip horey...

Sounds great! Whip whip horray!!! Love it!

:goodjob:

sounds great (patting own shoulder):goodjob:

concerning city placement:

try to build your initial 4 cities in a way, that you have 2 reserved spots for later settlement (if possible). That helps to save money


don´t go for cultural. If you manage to tech up fast enough to mil.trad and gunpowder go berserk

"What else could we do with really high :) " Whip, whip horey...

Darn Futurehermit, why did you found hinduism and not buddishm? Otherwise these lyrics http://www.azlyrics.us/41753 would have been the best for you :p :p :p

Darn Futurehermit, why did you found hinduism and not buddishm? Otherwise these lyrics http://www.azlyrics.us/41753 would have been the best for you :p :p :p

rofl!!! shucks ;)

K guys, I'm going to be playing the next round soon and still need some info:

1) 2nd city site

2) Now that we're going aggressive instead of cultural, should our tech approach change at all? What about wonders? Still ToA and oracle?

3) Are we going to play peaceful until miltrad? I would say this would be good if we can since with only 2 civs on our continent we're going to want to have trading partners. Once we meet the other continent and get early cav we can mop up our continent hopefully fairly quickly.

Thoughts???

1) 2nd city site

It sounds like gold-corn is a good option. You could do gold-deer as well, but I think fur-deer allows you to capture more of the southern resources with gold-corn.

Gold-corn only has two options: build W of the middle mountain, or build W of the southern mountain on the silk. Building on the silk would put another food resource (I think it's pig) in the fat cross. That pig could also be used with the rice to actually work the incense tiles to the south at 6 gold per. I think N of the silk and W of the middle mountain is best.

I like the idea of settling on one of the silk tiles to get two food resources in the BFC. Food = good imo.

Maybe we could build another city that claims the deer and fur and that could share the wheat if need-be???

Hey guys, I'm going to try and play the next round tonight and hopefully that'll get some discussion going in this thread again ;)

Why not settle 1SW of the gold? Turning a desert tile into a usefull one. You get gold and pigs in the BFC combined with double silk and incense= very nice commerce city with decent food. Then you can still get corn/deer/fur city in the first suggestion, although there is a good chance that the AI will go for that place also. Bring on the happy people and play the second round.

K guys, I'm going to be playing the next round soon and still need some info:

1) 2nd city site

2) Now that we're going aggressive instead of cultural, should our tech approach change at all? What about wonders? Still ToA and oracle?

3) Are we going to play peaceful until miltrad? I would say this would be good if we can since with only 2 civs on our continent we're going to want to have trading partners. Once we meet the other continent and get early cav we can mop up our continent hopefully fairly quickly.

Thoughts???

I like pos. 1 for 2. city better, because it allows you to found your 3. (or better your 4., if you manage to use your 3. to settle towards the horses (grab them and get Ragnar blocked of)) on the desert tile next to the pigs (gets gold, pics, rice and one silk (=great city))

Round 2: 3200BC-1120BC: All Hell Breaks Loose!

Ok, things hit the fan here this round!!!

First, we met another civ:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Cyrus0000.jpg

Yep, Cyrus. Bigger continent than I thought...

Then I popped 28g from a hut; then the scout got eaten by a lion :(

Then I met yet another civ...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Saladin0000.jpg

Saladin. He's annoyed since he founded Buddhism. Fun fun.

Research: The wheel (to hook up cities to spread religion) and agriculture (growth)

Then met YET ANOTHER CIV...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Hannibal0000.jpg

Hannibal. Dammit. This is what I HATE about the continents map. If I want pangaea, I'll play pangaea. Why can't the generator just put 4 civs per continent. Is that too much to ask?!?!?!?!?!?!?! *end rant*

Then, Ragnar plants a city RIGHT BETWEEN WHERE I WANTED TO PUT TWO CITIES. :mad: grrr!!! He's definitely got to go down....somehow...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Ragnarscity0000.jpg

Research: Archery (defence) + Mining (gold)

Then Vienne is founded....

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Viennefounded0000.jpg

Yes, not ideal placement, but I want the gold asap and I plan to pop borders before ragnar to get the pigs. I will eventually get around to either cultureflipping or razing his city.

Gold online. +1 :)

Research: Pottery ($$$)

Then Tolosa is founded...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/LBD1Tolosafounded0000.jpg

This is where I had planned on building this city anyways. Gotta get the furs online and corn + deer = decent food. Plus, settling on a plains hill = better initial production.

Research: Bronze (adopt slavery)

We don't have copper, but Ragnar does = not good.

Warrior killed by barb.

Research: Priest (temples, makes writing cheaper)

Fur online = +1 :)


Notes

Popped borders first (gotta love religion) to secure us the pigs from near Ragnar's city.

Next settler is built and on way...but to where?!?!?! Need advice.

Any and all advice/criticism welcome! Let's keep the :) Rolling. Capital already has 7-8 :) without a monument or temple.

My thought process right now is to get to alphabet-literature. 1) Trade for iron to take out Ragnar. 2) Great Library (We have marble).

Things I didn't do:

1) Found judaism. Other priorities got in the way.

2) Build early wonders. Once Ragnar built that city there I knew there was no way wonders were happening. Plus with all those other civs I just knew we were going to get boxed in. I would've loved to build ToA and/or Parthenon, but alas the land is just not good and the Ragnar situation is problematic.

EDIT: Forgot save again, it is now attached.

could you post a city screen please?
(to see how much happiness you have, and where it comes from)
And a landmap with resource pointers?

And the only wonder you need is Notre Dame ;)

i will try and do it tonight :) but here is my sense of where our :) comes from:

3: difficulty level
1: charismatic
1: gold
1: fur
1: stat religion
1: palace or monument (don't have monument in capital yet)

total: 8

yes, the plan is definitely to grab notre dame. i'm thinking CoL-caste system-run some artists-Drama-lightbulb Music with GA.

music is also on the way to this tech I know...military tradition...anyone heard of it? :lol:

Yeah the dotmap with resources would be great but the next city should have a strategic resource such as copper/iron/horses/elephants. Jumbo's are GOOOOOOOOD btw for the extra happy face.

And you get some extra :) :) :) in your cities because the people started to laugh about the big bullseye that Ragnar painted on his forehead and the kick me sign on his back for that insolent action of his by planting his city there. Get some temples going to fight the culture war or just raze the city to the ground.

Well, I'd love elephants but I don't see any anywhere :( I'm thinking we'll have to go for iron (trade alpha for it). No copper and the horses are too much of a stretch and chariots kinda suck anyways.

I'm thinking alpha then either lit or col.

Does anyone think we should try to get the GL since we have marble? Or just go CoL and try and get music asap for notre dame?

Well, I'd love elephants but I don't see any anywhere :( I'm thinking we'll have to go for iron (trade alpha for it). No copper and the horses are too much of a stretch and chariots kinda suck anyways.

I saw some west of Vicky.
Maybe you need to go conquer them though.

I'm thinking alpha then either lit or col.

Does anyone think we should try to get the GL since we have marble? Or just go CoL and try and get music asap for notre dame?
If you have marble, go for oracle (still available?)
and Great Library maybe if noone else has it before you finish you first war.

Yeah, there's elephants on the continent, but they're not close is what I meant. With Ragnar being first priority it will take us awhile to get through Vicky. Oracle and GL are certainly possibilities to consider. Oracle-CoL would be nice cuz then we could run the artists sooner. GL is obviously good.

Does anyone else think we need to get some missionaries out to convert some neighbours before the whole continent is buddhist and hates us? :lol:

What about a prophet for our shrine after the GA?

Yeah, there's elephants on the continent, but they're not close is what I meant. With Ragnar being first priority it will take us awhile to get through Vicky. Oracle and GL are certainly possibilities to consider. Oracle-CoL would be nice cuz then we could run the artists sooner. GL is obviously good.

Does anyone else think we need to get some missionaries out to convert some neighbours before the whole continent is buddhist and hates us? :lol:

What about a prophet for our shrine after the GA?

you didn't say anything about diplomacy yet
who do you want to befriend?
who are you going to kill (ragnar, if i can still read)
who do you expect to be the world's punching bag?

who do I want to befriend?

probably not ragnar nor vicky (first targets). obviously not saladin. so everyone else as much as possible i would say.

who am I going to kill?

everyone eventually :lol: but first ragnar then vicky i hope.

who do i expect to be the world's punching bag?

well, if I don't convert some people to hinduism, then i expect it would be me :lol: :lol: :lol:

who do I want to befriend?

probably not ragnar nor vicky (first targets). obviously not saladin. so everyone else as much as possible i would say.

who am I going to kill?

everyone eventually :lol: but first ragnar then vicky i hope.

who do i expect to be the world's punching bag?

well, if I don't convert some people to hinduism, then i expect it would be me :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can convert to buddhism very soon!
Just capture a buddhist city ;)

Yeah, that's true but Saladin is pretty far away and I think if everyone converts to Buddhism he will start to run away with the game (mega$$$).

That being said, I don't know if we can 1) get the further people away to convert hindu before buddhist; and 2) even if we could convert them dunno if we could keep them hindu...

So, I guess we'll see how it plays out. If we have to convert to Buddhism it's alright I guess, but then we'd have to go and convert all of our cities to Buddhism (lots of missionaries) in order to get the state religion :)

Decisions, decisions...

Yeah, that's true but Saladin is pretty far away and I think if everyone converts to Buddhism he will start to run away with the game (mega$$$).

That being said, I don't know if we can 1) get the further people away to convert hindu before buddhist; and 2) even if we could convert them dunno if we could keep them hindu...

So, I guess we'll see how it plays out. If we have to convert to Buddhism it's alright I guess, but then we'd have to go and convert all of our cities to Buddhism (lots of missionaries) in order to get the state religion :)

Decisions, decisions...

It's easier to convert your cities to buddhism than to convert other civs to hinduism!
+ you want as many temples as possible! (it's the variant!)
It may be worth to send 2 hindu missionaries to each wanabee friend, just for the trial.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just worried about Saladin getting out of control. He's too far away to trim back. I guess it'll be a matter of whether we can afford the missionaries asap (no other priorities) and how much of a stretch it will seem to be to send them out...

I figure since we have the possibility of a Hindu shrine it might be worthwhile to try and spread the religion so if I get the chance to convert some folks to hinduism I think I might go for it. On a continent of this magnitude that Hindu shrine could add up to some nice $$$ if we can spread the religion around...

Bump, I want to see some happy people (including me ;))

Ha! I'll try and post an update soon :) I'm still cooling off after my frustration of realizing that this is turning into a small pangaea instead of a standard continents game :mad:

I hope people will give me some input into how I should proceed however. I mean, only 2 people have responded since I posted the last update... :(

Then, Ragnar plants a city RIGHT BETWEEN WHERE I WANTED TO PUT TWO CITIES. :mad: grrr!!! He's definitely got to go down....somehow...


hehe, I did warn you about that... After posting my previous advice, I gave the save a try and saw Ragnar do just as I had feared, settling in the same spot as above.

War is the thing. And soon. Either settle the cows/fish site to the south or, if you think you can defend it, the horses site west of Raggy's :mad: city. Research IW, pray for iron, and throw everything you've got at the doorstep-settling bastard (or go for cats first instead if you don't want to risk finding no iron nearby). Show no mercy. Wipe him out in a single war. Keep pumping out the units and don't stop 'til he's dead and the north is yours.

After that? Well, I guess just wait and see... but I suspect those :) are gonna have a lot of WW to compensate for before the game is done.

Completely agree with Winston. Just hit Ragnar on the bullseye. Build up an army and go go go. Your people and I want to have some fun and some :) :) :) so wipe that smuck of the face of the earth.

Yep, the plan is to take him out. I will probably go for alphabet with the plan of trading for math and iron. Then research construction and go at him with the goal of taking him out in one war. With so many civs on this huge rock, there's no harm in having one less...

That doesn't mean I'm not still planning on doing everything humanly possible to increase happiness and notre dame is still high on my list of priorities so generating a GA for music is going to be important...

seriously why do you need a GA to get music? Getting extra GA's later on will just pollute your gpp pool. you can just selfresearch it. Getting a religion seems like a good thing from your strategy. Since you say your gonna get sistine chapel and as many smilies as possible(from churches) cultural victory? Ofc getting both toa and GL(lighthouse) would pollute your gpp pool needed for GA's(though it might give you GM's which can let you rushbuild those expencive culture multipliers with US. Brennus also have cheap temples. So early trade route strategy using sixtinth chapel and notre dame along with cheap temples to push for cultural victory?

I think we decided against cultural victory. I'm thinking if I don't get a GA to lightbulb music the AI will and then we risk losing notre dame and the free GA. I don't plan on polluting the GP pool. I plan on getting the GA once we have caste system (I need to beeline it anyway after lit for courthouses).

Here's how I see things shaking down next round (please comment!):

-Beeline alpha-lit; chop GL (not sure which city, but will pick best one, maybe capital)

-Beeline CoL; run artists for caste system to generate GA

-Drama to unlock Music lightbulb (GA prefers drama first then music)

-Trade for math, masonry (necessary for construction + marble for GL), ironworking

-Construction

After I get to construction, mass catas + if iron, supporting troops (if not, support with archers). Once a sufficient army is built, will attack Ragnar while building Notre Dame.

I will include any other sources of :) if I am forgetting any.

Please let me know what you think of this plan. It is important that we make the right decisions early on.

I think the play so far has been alright. We have a religion, furs, and gold, so our early :) is pretty good.

don't forget the coliseum (colosseum?), if you have construction !

Good call, I won't forget it :) I'm thinking we should run 20% culture rate once we have theatres + coliseums...

Hello there!

3 proposals:
1) the best for me: On silks near oasis
2) 1S1E to rice
3) 1E to cow to get fish

All free propositions mean coruption, but you have 3 turns, build the trade network to Ragnar, just build road on corn. I am not sure if Ragnar's desire are open borders to anyone, but if you do this, you could trade perhaps with other civs (if connected to Ragnar).

P.S. Don't expect to build Notredam. It will simply be rushed by the owners of Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and Great Wall.

P.S. Don't expect to build Notredam. It will simply be rushed by the owners of Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and Great Wall.

That's why I want to use a GA for music...to get a head start on it...(chopped preferably).

That's why I want to use a GA for music...to get a head start on it...(chopped preferably).

:goodjob:
I believe that music isn't researched for when the prize (the GA) is gone, so you may have a monopoly on it for a good while.

yep, that's the hope :)

I'd like to make a suggestion for the victory condition to shoot for:

Diplomatic

Why? Well, because if the goal is max happyness, then it seems to me that diplomatic victory is about making sure that even the folks you don't control are happy with you.

I'd like to make a suggestion for the victory condition to shoot for:

Diplomatic

Why? Well, because if the goal is max happyness, then it seems to me that diplomatic victory is about making sure that even the folks you don't control are happy with you.

:lol:

I love it! What does everyone else think?

I wonder if the current situation will facilitate a diplomatic victory? If Saladin spreads his religion to everyone, it could be hard to curry everyone's favour.

But I'm open to what others think?

I will try and post an update on the game tonight...I'll probably play around 20 turns per update or so unless I encounter pressing issues, then I'll play less.

Diplomatic would be very cool indeed. And if there are too many people who aren't happy enough? Just go for the 'heartless Utilitarian' approach, and kill the miserable bastards. :ar15: :mad:

thus the new slogan is: be happy in the afterlife?

it's a win-win situation really: join us and be happy or die and be happy :lol:

Man this is a weird one. Going for Music? I haven't done it since my early Chieftain or Warlord games! :) Can't wait for the update. Come on. Make us happy. ;)

By that justification, will you be whipping?

By that justification, will you be whipping?

He should whip all those happiness giving buildings!
temples!
missionaries to spread a faith to other cities for more temples.
forges!
markets!
coliseum!
theatres!
units under HR
Globe theater!
barracks under nationhood!
...

if only he had a sacrificial altar. they would be happy to die.