Ok, well, the critical mistake and loss from my first game still stings but I'm still hungry for that first win, so here we go again! I hope you enjoyed the first one and hope you will enjoy this one. Hopefully it is informative for anyone trying to achieve their first domination win on emperor or below.

Settings: Patched Warlords/Emperor/Continents/Normal/Standard/Default

Leader:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1CatherineDescription0000.jpg

Yep, Cathy. Decent starting techs, creative so can avoid mysticism/monuments, imperialistic not great but planning on using 1st two for medic 3 units for 2 stacks and subsequent ones for Mil Acads for mass production of cossacks, and of course cossacks a solid UU unbeatable really during a critical window of opportunity. Should be fun. Can Rex better as well if no opponents nearby.

Round 1: 4000BC to 200BC

Opening:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1Opening0001.jpg

Elephants! Construction here I come.

4000BC: Settle in place. Start worker-anhusb.

3880BC: Popped the wheel from hut! Nice!

3800BC: 87g from hut; gotta love starting with a scout.

3760BC: Drumroll please...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1Issy0000.jpg

Oh yes, the irony! Revenge will be mine, it will be mine! Wait a minute, I`m playing as Cathy! That`s ironic in itself I suppose!

3640BC: Popped rest of anhusb from hut.

3280BC: Map hut. Lots of jungle to south. Guess I have to expand toward Issy! Shucks!

3240BC: Another ironic drumroll please...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1Monty0000.jpg

Lolz! Maybe I`ll give him a bit of a break this time. Last time his empire never even got off the ground, poor guy!

3000BC: Bronze in. No copper spotted, but we have horses in 2nd city site and elephants so all good. Revolt to slavery.

2840BC: Copper spotted to north, but it is very near Issy, can I beat her to it

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Issyspottedtonorthandcopper0000.jpg

2640BC: Agri in.

2480BC: St Pete`s founded

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1St.jpg

2240BC: Scout killed by barb warrior. Poor guy, he did well.

2160BC: Writing in.

1960BC: Switched to alpha from math since I determined I could beat Issy to copper site and would need it to sue for tech. Can finish self-researching math after I guess.

1880BC: JUST beat Issy to the copper site. It was close, but I won!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1JustbeatIssy0000.jpg

And then...!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Novgorodfounded0000.jpg

1840BC: Accept open borders from Issy to scout her capital for units.

MANY DECADES SPENT MASSING AXES

700BC: Alpha in; alpha to monty for iron + masonry. Iron pops up at Moscow!

575BC: Alpha to Issy for myst, fish, pottery, and archery. Declare war on Issy.

455BC: At the cost of 8 axes and 1 chariot:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1SackedMadrid0000.jpg

Yep, Hindu holy city. Don`t think she built the shrine yet though alas.

200BC: Had to wait to mass some more units (swords) but then...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy1SackingofBarcelona0000.jpg

Lost some more units, but now I have two fat cities in addition to my original 3. Sued for peace (Medit + Poly)


Bleeding pretty bad economically. I have a decision: I haven`t done a single chop yet this game. I can go for lit (helped by scientists in all 5 cities) and hopefully chop GL. Or, I can finish math and go currency-col-construction and then gear up for war again. I`m thinking I`ll go the latter route!

Saves attached!

If there is nobody left on your continent except Monty you should already start thinking about getting astronomy fast, so that you can hit the guys on the other continent before they advance too far in techs. You have a nice production base already, so wiping out another neighbour and then sitting waiting for astronomy for ages is not a good idea.

You can lightbulb most of the techs on the way to Astronomy with scientists. Building TGL and NE will help you a lot. But you can also switch to Caste System for a while instead. Also you'll propably be able to trade for construction after you meet the other continent (optics). As for Monty, you can kill him now with a huge sword army, or wait for cats, but that is not very important IMO.

Unfortunately you already researched meditation, and thus will have access to philosophy which is higher on the list of priorities for a GS then compass, optics and astronomy. So you you'll have to lightbulb philosophy with your first GS and then switch to pacifism to farm more GSs quickly. Also avoid theology and civil service, these techs open up the way to paper, education and other builder techs that you don't want in a domination game. First get astronomy and then get civil service for maces. On emperror/immortal it is possible to kill everybody with maces and cats.

Of course you can also play a slightly more builder kind of game and rush to civil service, education (oxford) and liberalism securing a tech lead and then killing them with more advanced units.

since you will need to go to the other continent sooner than later, I think it's time to go builder:
- bribe monte to war vs spain
- sue for peace (what techs does she have?)
- go for astronomy from liberalism

Immediate tech path would be
- finish maths (or get it from isabella!)
- go for the great library
- go for currency/construction

After that, you can go for a second spanish war with catapults and elephants (perfect vs conquistadores :))

Ok, great advice, however things on the other continent are not good so I can't follow your advice directly...

Round 2: 200BC to 1130AD

200BC: Ok, as already mentioned I had sued for peace with Issy (Medit and Poly) and was bleeding bad at 0% science. Time to fix that. First open borders with Monty hoping for foreign trade routes at some point.

150BC: First GG becomes...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2Medic3Chariot0000.jpg

Yep, pretty standard, medic 3 chariot.

50AD: Math in.

150AD: First GS, saved for Phil since sued for medit.

425 AD: Reject Issy's demand for math

450AD: Reject Issy's demand for Judaism

475AD: Monty finally spotted to SE

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/MontyspottedtoSE0000.jpg

I'll let him take care of all that jungle for me!!!

500AD: Currency in, that helps a bit. Trade to Monty for priest, mono, sail, and 270. Assign markets in all cities and set workers to chop them out.

620AD: Col and Phil in (no taoism!!! yikes! *thinks about other continent*). Monty is WFYABTA already...Not good on the tech-trading front!!! Workers will chop courthouses in all cities once markets are done.

660AD: GS born and saved for paper I guess.

740AD: Construction in.

860AD: Met our first rival from across the pond...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2MetNappy0000.jpg

Yep, the Napster. And he's very advanced. GRRRR. This is reminiscint of one of Aelf's EMC games. We have the 3 continent with a psycho who won't trade with us and there are 4 tree-huggers on the other continent teching like rabbits. Yikes!!! This could be rough!!! He already has Philosophy and CS. This is really not good...

960AD: CS and paper in. Nappy already has paper...crap!!! No tech trading opportunities with him and I have no trading buddies on my continent. Darn it, why couldn't it have been Monty close by again!!!

1000AD: GS born and used on Ed. Hopefully I get it first to trade...

1020AD: Monty demands 100 and I give in, can't afford him declaring on me.

1050AD: Markets and courthouses now complete in all cities. Ed in 5. Preparing all out war on Issy with goal of eliminating her asap for her cities.

1090AD: Ed in. Nappy already has it! Crapola it's a major love fest over there! I decide that if they already have ed and phil there's no way I'm going to win liberalism so I prepare to self-research metcast-machinery for maces in preparation for eventual war with Monty. Monty decides to trade with me again (at my instigation no less): monarchy and drama for phil. This is for happiness as I go to war. He then goes back into WFYABTA! Ed to Monty for war on Issy to keep him off my back. Revolt to Bureaucracy and Hereditary rule. Declare war on Issy

1110AD: Pay 160 to Nappy for his usual tribute.

1120AD: And the next contestant is...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2Capac0000.jpg

Yep, HC. And he's very advance too and shares religion with Nappy. Man, I really have to break up relations over there somehow or this could get ugly. I might be able to win space if I take out Monty and cottage spam my continent, but this is a domination attempt, darn it!!! Give wine to Monty for crab (I'm battling health issues in my cities).

Sacked Seville...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2SackedSeville0000.jpg

1130AD: Issy razes my fur causing happiness problems (markets give +1 happy for fur) in some of my cities. This is temporary.

Issy has 5 total cities that I hope will be mine soon. Monty may take one city, but I'm not sure. He has longbows out but not too many offensive units. I forget if he has iron or not, hopefully not. I believe he does not have elephants, which is good. I plan to take him out with catas and elephants and cr3 maces once machinery comes onboard (I have some veterans).

Power graph:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2PowerGraph0000.jpg

Not good. The other continent is insane as is Monty. I'm hoping that once I take Issy's cities and spam catas + elephants and take 3-4 of Monty's cities in first war that I will get on par with Monty. Then I'll have to see about the other continent...

Tech situation:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/Cathy2TechSituation0000.jpg

Also not good.

Tbh, I feel like my play so far has been pretty strong. Don't know what I would've done different really. (Any advice appreciated!) I just got kinda unlucky I think. Monty was too far away to attack first and Issy was the logical target as she was so close so early. Took her out until I was bleeding bad economically. Built up my economy and now am attacking again ready to finish her. That's pretty standard imo. The problem is that I don't have any trading partners while the other continent is teching like crazy so I'm doomed to lose the liberalism race.

My plan is to finish Issy, take out Monty and then try and boom my econ while souring relations overseas. I have to manage a tech advantage on someone (doesn't have to be everyone) at some point so I can declare on them (best if I can get an overseas ally for this). Then, once I have a foothold on the other continent I can try and take Snaaty's suggestion and boom towards modern armor...

Save attached.

reasons for being so backward:
- emperor level obviously ;)
- you're on the smaller continent (bad luck, nothing more nothing less)
- you spent a lot of energy on war (a good one, but very costly and not paying for itself since you sued for peace before currency)
- you didn't manage good trading (no good partners around anyway)
- HC is financial
- none of your continent AIs are financial, neither are you
- you tech very much as a beeline. It costs a lot more than balanced teching (more prereqs, more AIs knowing the techs you research...). + you traded for very cheap techs, which put you in WFYBTA zone.

only had a quick glance...


you must change your thinking concerning your city placement because from emperor on, what matters is (in this order) money, then food, then strat-resources:

You had gold nearby. 2 city you should have founded near the gold and started working it ASAP. This almost doubles research early on and helps a lot (this really makes a major difference (in my opinion THE difference) because your starting pos. looks very good and I can´t see any reason but this for your bad tech. situation)

You know what? I was going to put the 3rd city so that it claimed both the copper + gold, but then I saw a blue circle 1 square away next to the coast. I moved my warrior there and it revealed the seafood so I settled there instead, giving up the gold.

I didn't claim gold with 2nd city because I always fear barbs so I went for the horse city first.

So, should I have gone gold city first then horse city and delayed war with Issy until construction? If so, should I have gone construction before currency and col or after? I guess I could've gone gold city, copper city, but at first I didn't know the copper was there and then I still fear barbs. I find if I wait til 3rd city to get military resource up and running then barbs are an issue.

Should I have gone archery to deal with barbs and then just build cities for best economy delaying war until construction?

Thanks for tips!

I would have gone for the gold too, but I think it's only a small part of what happened.

- you tech very much as a beeline. It costs a lot more than balanced teching (more prereqs, more AIs knowing the techs you research...).

I disagree. Beelining is the optimal style for research on higher levels, since it opens up trade opportunities. In fact I would have skipped currency and construction in order to get Optics sooner. With early optics and knowing philosophy it would have been possible traded for construction, currency and a few other techs.

Still your research rate was too slow. It looks like you didn't utilise the land you captured properly. Whenever you run into money problems, build lots of workers and spam cottages. Also perhaps you weren't focused enough on farming those GSs. In fact it might have been worthwile to start the GP farm going before the attack. Plus your priorities with city improvements might have been wrong. Libraries and markets are not very usefull in such games, build granaries and courthouses first. (I am just guessing here, didn't look into the save for details).

I disagree. Beelining is the optimal style for research on higher levels, since it opens up trade opportunities. In fact I would have skipped currency and construction in order to get Optics sooner. With early optics and knowing philosophy it would have been possible traded for construction, currency and a few other techs.

although I agree for a typical game, I think Isabella won't go for currency and Monte won't go for currency either.
Bad trading partners require a different path. I'm pretty sure currency was a good trading tech here.
Try it your way, and tell us if it's better, if you want.

I was talking about a beeline to Optics. That means you can trade with the guys from the other continent.

Ok guys, well I didn't build any cottages this game because I was going FE. It didn't work out too well. I don't know. I guess next game I'll need to be more concerned about my research. I didn't feel like it was lagging early, but I guess it was while I was massing units. Note to self for next game: ECONOMY :lol:

Basically, I went down in a blaze of glory. Eliminated Issy in 1230AD (too late imo, what was I doing this game?!?! That period of chopping markets and courthouses apparently took FOREVER. Declared war on Monty (suicide) in 1350. 1370 Monty upgrades to rifles (insane tech rate considering he couldn't have gotten along too well with the heathens on the other continent). The freakin' french had already established a foothold on our continent as well...

Blech! Everything was wrong this game :(

Sorry guys!

@ cabert

I agree on this points:

reasons for being so backward:
- you spent a lot of energy on war (a good one, but very costly and not paying for itself since you sued for peace before currency)
Check via F2 (I think) how much money your army costs


- you didn't manage good trading (no good partners around anyway)
- HC is financial
- none of your continent AIs are financial, neither are you
financial or organized helps a lot

+ you traded for very cheap techs, which put you in WFYBTA zone.
problem here is to go for war AND to trade for cheap techs (mood reduces WFYBTA)


Those I don´t agree:

- emperor level obviously
- you're on the smaller continent (bad luck, nothing more nothing less)
even when beeing isolated, it is possible to keep up in tech on emperor (even gain a tech lead)

- you tech very much as a beeline. It costs a lot more than balanced teching (more prereqs, more AIs knowing the techs you research...)
beelining is great in my opinion, but sometimes you must wait for good trading options


"I would have gone for the gold too, but I think it's only a small part of what happened."

Don´t underestimate the power of money


@ futurhermit:


For early defence I usually pick archery, because then I can specialize in expansion on money and food

I always go CoL and currenc before construction (money...)

"period of chopping markets and courthouses apparently took FOREVER." - You should whip them, when running FE because FE is only about whipping your people to happiness, richess, and producitivity:crazyeye: ;reseach/money is generated mainly via city improvements

One thing I´m doing quite different to most other´s, even when going for domination (so everybody feel free to ignore this point):

I STILL play mainly peacefull. I try to build 6 cities myself, go for liberalismus, pick nationalismus and go for first war with whipped and prebuilded cav. (or gren. if no horses) and drafted muskets/maces. This war last in average only about 30 turns, but in most games I´m able to take out 2 civs completely (due to tech advantage). Then I go peace again, specialize on economy techs, beeline to modern armor and conquer the rest (takes also about 30 turns due to tech advantage)


edit:

@ all:

just installed warlords...

Hi Snaaty,

I just started another game with Vikings. Played peaceful. focused on money. No precious metals nearby, but a huge snaking river that started in my capital and when on for awhile. I built 3 cities along it giving me four total.

I had Issy (AGAIN!) and Wang on my cont. I didn't go for early war, focusing totally on tech/economy. Due to jungle I had to delay placement of 5th and 6th cities. I got my 5th which had iron (only source), but wang settled on my 6th (coastal) :mad:

I concentrated on spamming cottages along the river except in city 3 which was a good production center (farms). I'm financial so CE.

I didn't sell adv techs to backfill like I normally do. Instead, self-researched. It was GREAT! I'm doing THAT from now on. I was able to keep up in tech without backfilling. I befriended Wang (confucianism had spread to most of my cities and he was confucian) and made an enemy of Issy. This made sense since Issy had no copper/horses and wang had both plus elephants.

I got liberalism first just after 1000AD and was beelining mil tradition. The only problem was I felt I was JUST A BIT too slow due to no 6th city!!!

So, funny you should say all this just as I finish this game!!!

I definitely think that this might be the way to go: Get 6 cities, beeline mil trad, attack taking many cities. Beeline modern armor, finish rest.

Good call!!!

cool.

just started my first warlord game... (emperor, I´ve drawn Mansa)

let´s hope you are right and it works in warlords as good as on vanilla (as I´m going to stick to this taktics for a first go)...

Let me know how it goes!!! I'm going to try it next game.

I think I just have to guage better if peace is an option or not. I started a game and got: nappy, shaka, monty, and ragnar on my continent :( Plus they were all close and I could only found a couple cities and they were in jungle! Krikey! Peace was not an option and I got a really bad start so I just resigned :(

@futurehermit

I still beleive that one strategic resource is imortant in the early game, but whether claimed by your first or second city depends on the situtaion. If the AIs are close, you MUST get copper/horses with your second city. If not, then you can delay but you must be confident that your fog busting is sufficient to deal with barbs.

CoL is a must have tech on emp. You shoud be building libraries before markets since Catherine is creative; use scientists to speed research. I like one early city dedicated to running two scientists (e.g. a fishing village close to the capital).

Early drama is also nice to have, mainly because it allows you to start building 6 theatres followed by the Golbe in a foodrich city. Then you can whip military or draft like mad from that one city. It helps you overcome the production bonuses that the AI get.

I would have settled the gold/coppper/floodplanes/cows city. Excellent on commerce, production and food. A city like that at emp level gives a big early advantage, especally bringing in early happiness for the whole empire.

I agree that continents can be hard depending on how the civs are placed. I avoid trading cheap techs now because of WFYABTA. I do think that currency is a great tech to have, but try to trade it as the AI are generally fond of it anyway. Drama/Optics are better to self-research as it is good for trade.

And, as already advised, you really need some more GSs in this situation. Did you run pacificism when you lightbulbed philosophy?

Good to see you trying. If you want a domination victory on emp, choose an organised leader. It will be much more forgiving if you overexpand. Freddy is good in warlords with good early expansion, early GPs and late UU/UB to push for end game domination. With a bit of practice and experience, you will be able to do it with any leader most of the time.