Ok since the other thread was considered spam, let's take this philosophical, critique the life of Hitler?

What was he guilty of? Why was he such a menace to all that is morally pure, and what lessons can this history teach future generations?

Was the War all bad, or did it unite the world together create the UN and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past? Or does no one care about Trumans et al high minded ideals post world war II.

Implication to society: of history from 19th C to 2006

As long as human nature does not change, this sort of thing will keep happening. Realists accept it, and move on.

I know, it's hard, but it has to be done to live in the world.

As long as human nature does not change, this sort of thing will keep happening. Realists accept it, and move on.

I know, it's hard, but it has to be done to live in the world.

No realists learn from their mistakes, at least if they have any sense and real people make sure that such abominations never happen again, by making sure everyone is repeatedly enforced with the idea of attrocity, the idiots are the politicians who will not listen to reason and create the same situation by barbaric stupidity and moribund political rhetoric that the :sheep:le lap up like sycophantic drones... I'm naming no names here but I think we all know who I'm driving at African dictators etc and others :rolleyes:

he was guilty of not being a good enough artist

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hitler.jpg (http://xkcd.com/c29.html)

Ok since the other thread was considered spam, let's take this philosophical, critique the life of Hitler?

What was he guilty of? Why was he such a menace to all that is morally pure, and what lessons can this history teach future generations?
I do not think it was so much the fact that he killed 6 million Jews that horrifies people. I don't. I think it is the manner in which he did it, and the attitudes of the people carrying it out. To systematically round up several million people and strip them of everything down to the filling in their teeth and the hair on their heads before finally killing them. I don't think the Nazis would be half as feared or hated if they had just massacred the Jews in one quick bloodletting. But to systematically extract everything of value before killing them, it just freaks people out.

I think the real reason the Nazis are feared is not because they are bizarre, but because they are normal. The camp guards and commanders all had families, and many went home at the end of the day to be loving husbands and fathers, yet their daily work involved exterminating entire races. We recognise the normalcy of the Nazis, yet most recoil on horror at what they did, and the sheer cruelty of how they did it. I remember on the history channel, they interviewed a guy who was a child when the Nazis took over Germany, and he had an older cousin in the SS. Anyway, this guy and a friend of his liked to throw rocks at stray cats. When this cousin in the SS visited their house and saw them doing this, the cousin told them to knock it off, because they should not be cruel to animals. Keep in mind this is a member of the SS, telling children not to be cruel to animals.:crazyeye:

Was the War all bad, or did it unite the world together create the UN and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past? Or does no one care about Trumans et al high minded ideals post world war II.

Implication to society of history from 19th C to 2006
As for the outcome of the war, I think it's greatest outcome was that it revealed the dark side of humanity, something I think society prior to the war had forgotten about. But even that didn't really change much. The idealism that led to the UN did have some effect, but I think it is now starting to wear off, and international life is beginning to resume it's old course.

Sadly I think that's a good summary of the reality, morons are reverting to type.:rolleyes:

What was he guilty of?

Genocide. Attempting to take over the world.

Why was he such a menace to all that is morally pure, and what lessons can this history teach future generations?

Because he caused the death of upwards of 20 million people.

Was the War all bad

Pretty much, although it had some positive side effects.

or did it unite the world together create the UN

What exactly did that accomplish?

and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past?

We temporarily put our differences with some nations aside. That ended with the war, though, as the Cold War shows.

Or does no one care about Trumans et al high minded ideals post world war II.

I'm not sure what "Truman's high minded ideals post World War II" were. Can you please tell us what you're talking about so that we can have a more substantive discussion?

Implication to society of history from 19th C to 2006

Huh? What does this mean?

I'm not sure what "Truman's high minded ideals post World War II" were the . Can you please tell us what you're talking about so that we can have a more substantive discussion?

Partition plan was his work and the UN, was founded by the US, without the US it wouldn't of happened and the high minded ideals it set up have been largely ignored.

I assumed most people who wanted to discuss history would either read the link or a link would already know it.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/history.htm

http://www.un.org/aboutun/basicfacts/index.html

http://www.un.org/Overview/uninbrief/

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/history/

http://www.un.org/millennium/infonote.htm

President Franklin D. Roosevelt:wikipedia roosevelt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt


Huh? What does this mean?
Exactly what is says what are the knock on implications, implications, causes.

to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and

to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS

Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

more here.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/index.html

Partition plan was his work and the UN, was founded by the US, without the US it wouldn't of happened and the high minded ideals it set up have been largely ignored.

I assumed most people who wanted to discuss history would either read the link or would already know it.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/history.htm

Well, we set up the UN. It hasn't been particularly useful because countries like the Soviet Union and China are able to veto any important resolution.

exactly what is says what are the knock implications.

This still doesn't make sense. The first thing I quoted was neither a sentence nor a question. This just says "what are the knock implications." What are you trying to ask?

The funny part is that his paintings weren't really all that awful, they were just not very good. He might have made a decent living as an illustrator in the advertising business or something like that.

Well, we set up the UN. It hasn't been particularly useful because countries like the Soviet Union and China are able to veto any important resolution.



This still doesn't make sense. The first thing I quoted was neither a sentence nor a question. This just says "what are the knock implications." What are you trying to ask?

The US has vetoed 37 resolutions against Israel, the Soviets have probably used their power of veto less since post war. In total the US is top of the table by a considerable margin in terms of using and continuing to abuse it's power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mypicturesandsht/vetogph2.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/mypicturesandsht/vetogrph.gif

It took only 10 posts in a Hitler thread to start ranting about the evil US/Israel co-operation. :ack:

It took only 10 posts in a Hitler thread to start ranting about the evil US/Israel co-operation. :ack:

Yep, and I agree it is evil.;) :p

Godwyn's law anyone?

THe Jew side step was his only mess up. Otherwise he was good. A bit strange though. I dislike that people seem to think Hitler was the first Jew hater. That had been going on for ages.

THe Jew side step was his only mess up. Otherwise he was good.

Oh, what utter and complete bollocks you write.

THe Jew side step was his only mess up. Otherwise he was good. A bit strange though. I dislike that people seem to think Hitler was the first Jew hater. That had been going on for ages.

Actually, he wrecked Germany's economy after building it up again with the war. He also was a pretty bad militaristic leader. Hitler was a below average leader besides the Holocaust.

Actually, he wrecked Germany's economy after building it up again with the war. He also was a pretty bad militaristic leader. Hitler was a below average leader besides the Holocaust.

mm He didn't ruin it. France and England ruined it by invading Germany.

mm He didn't ruin it. France and England ruined it by invading Germany.

I think you'll find the Russians and Americans had a hand in invading Germany too, not to mention the Dutch, Poles, Czechs and all the other nations that went to make up the allied armies involved in the campaigns of 1944 and 1945.

But lets be realistic for a moment here. It was Hitler and the Nazi party who began a war of conquest and enslavement, it was they who planned and executed people with industrial efficiency and they were the ones who tried to make the war such a do-or-die event for the German people. They were the ones who at the end of the war revealed their incompetence, callous disregard for human life (including German lives) and general inability to understand or see the reality of their situation. Any reasonably rational leader of Germany would have at least attempted to stop the war long before Germany was being invaded from all sides, Hitler was not such a leader.

By the end though it was Hitler who wanted to destroy the German economy. His "Nero" order would have meant the destruction of everything that still remained of Germany's ability to exist as an economic entity. Factories, bridges, the railway system, the telephone system, the telegraph stations, the broadcasting stations, everything. Germany is extremely fortunate that Speer and others conspired to foil the plan.

Ok since the other thread was considered spam, let's take this philosophical, critique the life of Hitler?

What was he guilty of? Why was he such a menace to all that is morally pure, and what lessons can this history teach future generations?

Was the War all bad, or did it unite the world together create the UN and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past? Or does no one care about Trumans et al high minded ideals post world war II.

Implication to society: of history from 19th C to 2006


I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Everything that's historically important to know about Hitler has been known for quite some time. He was an extreme right-wing politician who was elected Chancellor of Germany in 1933, and who then manipulated politics and public sentiment of the time to become dictator. Once in power, he attempted to carry out his dream of a universal German state in Europe, by any means necessary. It was his outright disregard for humanity that has allowed him to be labelled the quintessential villain. Although such behavior is not new to history, Hitler's was noteworthy because it occured in the 20th century -- a time which was thought to be more "civilized."

As far as I'm concerned, WW2 brought mostly bad, and little good. It created a geopolitical situation which ushered in the Cold War. It caused the deaths of millions of people, both military and civilian, and completely devastated Europe. It did not do away with petty bickering.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Everything that's historically important to know about Hitler has been known for quite some time. He was an extreme right-wing politician who was elected Chancellor of Germany in 1933, and who then manipulated politics and public sentiment of the time to become dictator.

Just a little nitpick: He was never actually elected; the post of Chancellor was an appointed one. He ran for President in 1932 but lost to old Hindenburg, who was later pressured into appointing him Chancellor of a new coalition government (it's interesting to note that the NSDAP never actually managed to win a majority of Reichstag seats) after the previous one fell to a vote of no confidence.

As for the reputed improvements he supposedly made to his country's economy, these were largely fake, since they were financed by credit. By the time the war started the German state was in rotten financial shape and the only thing that kept them from bankruptcy was outright plunder of conquered territories.

To be fair, it's a bit amusing that we typically list "wanting to conquer the world" in the list of Hitler's crimes, while busily admiring people like Alexander, for doing essentialy the same thing.

(Note :there are other crimes in the list of Hitler's. It's just amusing that world conquest is listed among them).

Its because different times. When Alexander wanted conquest the world, the conquestiong was normal sense of international politics. And...he won.

Ok since the other thread was considered spam, let's take this philosophical, critique the life of Hitler?

What was he guilty of? Why was he such a menace to all that is morally pure, and what lessons can this history teach future generations?

Was the War all bad, or did it unite the world together create the UN and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past? Or does no one care about Trumans et al high minded ideals post world war II.

Implication to society: of history from 19th C to 2006

A philosophical critique of the life of Hitler:

Let's look at the deeper story not told in normal history books.
1. Hitler didn't want to just "take over the world". He actually wanted to eliminate or enslave anyone in the world who wasn't in his "in crowd". His crime was that he pursued these aims. We live in a world of social contract, period. Hitler aimed to rewrite the ENTIRE contract without the rest of our consent. Our contract would have been that we are not allowed to live or even exist, period. Basically, you and I would have been "written out" of the story of humanity because our existence is unacceptable to him.

2. The lesson he showed us is that it is possible to end the "social contract", that our existence is not guaranteed unless there is an effort made to keep our existence part of the contract. We have to make an effort to keep people with the worldview he held away from the power that can destroy us.

3. The war was all bad. The people who survived had to decide to make an extra special effort to create something positive out of wreckage of the conflict. That is probably why Truman made an effort to push high-minded ideals of some sort after the war ended.

Implication to society of the life of Hitler: Negative on balance. Others were forced to compensate by being more positive than otherwise, I guess, so from more limited points of view there could appear to be benefits.

My $0.02,
SR

Hitler was the worst war criminal in all time, guilty of the death of billions of lives and responsible for the worst government in all time history. He was an evil, self serving ------ ------ who should have been thrown into a crowd of Jews, gays and Commies who should have killed him with their bare hands:lol: . There was no punishment man could give out that would have punished him enough.

WWII was 90% bad, and the UN is a useless, bickering bunch of buerocrats and filibusters who do nothing for the world except create taxes and propose laws that do almost nothing. However, it did do some things such as the Korean war, and that was a good choice. WWII killled millions and should not have happened, but it showed the world how evil fascism is and started the US path to destroy communism over the next 50 years, which was good. FIGHT THE COMMUNISTS!!!!!!!:D :D :D

Hitler was the worst war criminal in all time, guilty of the death of billions of lives and responsible for the worst government in all time history.

If you go for the lowest possible billion; 1.000.000.000

Are you sure about that?

And plural (billions) - how many billions? 2, 3, 9?

If you go for the lowest possible billion; 1.000.000.000

Are you sure about that?

And plural (billions) - how many billions? 2, 3, 9?

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure.:blush: :confused:

Hitler was the worst war criminal in all time, guilty of the death of billions of lives and responsible for the worst government in all time history. He was an evil, self serving ------ ------ who should have been thrown into a crowd of Jews, gays and Commies who should have killed him with their bare hands:lol: . There was no punishment man could give out that would have punished him enough.

WWII was 90% bad, and the UN is a useless, bickering bunch of buerocrats and filibusters who do nothing for the world except create taxes and propose laws that do almost nothing. However, it did do some things such as the Korean war, and that was a good choice. WWII killled millions and should not have happened, but it showed the world how evil fascism is and started the US path to destroy communism over the next 50 years, which was good. FIGHT THE COMMUNISTS!!!!!!!:D :D :D

Billions, Billions, Billions? :confused: Are you smoking crack? 50 million, at a most. Facism wasn't invented by Hitler either, I hope you realize that.

WWII put the World into another conflict, one without a shot of a gun between the 2 superpowers of the World. It did nothing to end the World conflict. Once again, you sound like a brainwashed idiot, but what should I expect?

Billions, Billions, Billions? :confused: Are you smoking crack? 50 million, at a most. Facism wasn't invented by Hitler either, I hope you realize that.

WWII put the World into another conflict, one without a shot of a gun between the 2 superpowers of the World. It did nothing to end the World conflict. Once again, you sound like a brainwashed idiot, but what should I expect?

I am counting all of WWII including all events of the second sino-jap war and the nanking rape and the holocaust, and the deaths in italy (50% hitler, 50% mousillini) and the deaths in all countries under hitler, including those caused by the vichi french. And I still don't know about billions, i just hate nazis.
I know fascism wasn't invented by hitler. He was the first to REALLY use it in the manner with which its thought of today. Did i say anything about ending world conflict? No, it did nothing of the sort. I apologized if i said that, please quote it.

I am counting all of WWII including all events of the second sino-jap war and the nanking rape and the holocaust, and the deaths in italy (50% hitler, 50% mousillini) and the deaths in all countries under hitler, including those caused by the vichi french. And I still don't know about billions, i just hate nazis.
I know fascism wasn't invented by hitler. He was the first to REALLY use it in the manner with which its thought of today. Did i say anything about ending world conflict? No, it did nothing of the sort. I apologized if i said that, please quote it.

Why is Hitler responsible for deaths caused by Japan and Italian forces? The Pacific War, when you look at the broad picture, you see that they were Allies, but did not effect each other in their respective wars. Even if you did count those deaths, the number is probably around 100 million-200 million.

Facism was first used by Benito Mussolini in Italy when he took over the country.

Why is Hitler responsible for deaths caused by Japan and Italian forces? The Pacific War, when you look at the broad picture, you see that they were Allies, but did not effect each other in their respective wars. Even if you did count those deaths, the number is probably around 100 million-200 million.

Facism was first used by Benito Mussolini in Italy when he took over the country.

First: Hitler was resoponsible for the Japanese and Italian deaths because he fostered the rulers and helped them and plotted with them.
Second: Yes, but Moussilli was a pawn of hitler and a crazy weakling who thought conquering the poorest nation in the world was good.
Third: This is rediculous. We are debating about the number of dead HITLER, of all people, is blamed with, when i said, "I don't know, I just hate nazis, i don't know the number he is responsible for." This is REDICULOUS. I think we should all agree that Hitler was the most evil man in history, and leave it at that.

First: Hitler was resoponsible for the Japanese and Italian deaths because he fostered the rulers and helped them and plotted with them.
Second: Yes, but Moussilli was a pawn of hitler and a crazy weakling who thought conquering the poorest nation in the world was good.
Third: This is rediculous. We are debating about the number of dead HITLER, of all people, is blamed with, when i said, "I don't know, I just hate nazis, i don't know the number he is responsible for." This is REDICULOUS. I think we should all agree that Hitler was the most evil man in history, and leave it at that.

First: Learn history. Mussolini came to power on his own. Even rebelled against Hitler's wishes at time. Japan was it's own thing, Toto came to power on his own. Hitler was NOT involved in either's policy makers. They were allies. It's like saying Stalin was a pawn of Roosevelt or Churchill.

Second: Learn History.

Third: No, I think you need to get out of your propaganda mindset that X is Evil, so we must end it. Learn about history and why it happens, and what actually happens. You need to grow up and hold an unbiased opinion when looking at history, you'll be amazed at what you see.

.

You need to grow up and hold an unbiased opinion when looking at history, you'll be amazed at what you see.


It is hard for me to hold a politically unbiased view on ANYTHING, but i'll give it a try.

It is hard for me to hold a politically unbiased view on ANYTHING, but i'll give it a try.

Don't worry; you can still hate Nazis afterward. They're pretty handy that way.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure.:blush: :confused:

So, you just threw out that figure without consulting anything resembling evidence? That's a most dangerous path. 1 billion is appr. 15.4% of the current world population! I'm not here to justify anything Hitler did, but your figure is awfully wrong.

I think we should all agree that Hitler was the most evil man in history, and leave it at that.

There are many candidates in that category.

Don't worry; you can still hate Nazis afterward. They're pretty handy that way.

+ they make great foes in Video Games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

Don't worry; you can still hate Nazis afterward. They're pretty handy that way.

Funny and true :lol:

There are many candidates in that category.



].

Are you serious?:dubious: :dubious: :dubious: :dubious:

Was the War all bad, or did it unite the world together create the UN and start to turn the world away from the petty bickering of the past?

I doubt world unity always leads to good things.

However, it did do some things such as the Korean war, and that was a good choice.

Ah yes, the Korean War, which killed enormous numbers of people, completely devastated North Korea, and transformed it into an insanely paranoid country which despises Americans to this day. That was a good plan! But I don't exactly see how Hitler can be blamed or credited for it.