What happened to mediaval city walls in major european cities, like London or Paris? Are they still there, or have they been demolished?

Most of them were demolished and the material reused. Hewn stone is expensive dontchaknow?;)

Much like the limestone covering the pyramids were used to build Cairo and the good citizens of Rome mined the Colosseum for building material for centuries.

But you can still catch a glimpse of the Paris city was built by Philip August in the late 12th c. if you know where to look for it. Dunno about London, but I don't think there's anything left.

And some medieval town walls have survived intact. Have a look at places like Carcassonne and Aigues-Mortes in the south of France, and Visby on the Swedish island of Gotland in the Baltic, if you have the opportunity.

London has a little bit of roman wall left with a couple of towers by the barbican http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Wall

It was refortified by Cromwell but AFAIK nothing of that remains.

The reason for major cities having lost their walls is not only that the masonry gets re-used but that the cities are vastly larger now. The city expands and the walls are in the way of the increased traffic. Luckily the new traffic's houses are built of the wall that was in the way.

Canterbury has excellent medieval walls. So does Boulogne. I think that smaller towns like these have typically kept them more than large cities such as London, because there was less pressure to demolish them.

York and Chester are two other English cities with exellent medieval walls.

Dubrovnik in Croatia also comes to mind.

The northern part of the byzantine walls of Thessalonike still survives, including the heptagonal castle :)

http://www.greecetravel.com/thessaloniki/walls.JPG

There are many city walls in Spain, the longest (and totally intact) are the ones around Ávila:

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/spain/avila/walls/0049.jpg

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/spain/avila/walls/0036.jpg

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cit%C3%A9_de_Carcassonne

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Carcassonne-vignes.jpg/800px-

2 500 years old ,
53 towers,
3 km for fortification,
1 300 men were needed to manthe walls,
15% of the city has been renovated only,
58 years of work to renovate the city
330 000 visitors for the count castle,
2 millions visitors in the city, makinf in the 2nd most visited location in France after Mont-Saint-Michel,
150 inhabitants in 2005.

And it's only 45 minutes drive from my home, if you plan to visit Carcassonne, you can have the immense privilege to meet me for almost the same price! And my wife loves to play tour guide of the city

I didn't know you lived in that region, Steph. I'd like to visit it again some time soon: it's many years since I've been to southwest France, and I didn't see much of it at the time.

By the way, Steph mentioned the Mont Saint Michel. I think this is the most amazing medieval place I've ever visited. It's like Minas Tirith.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37977/MSM1.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37977/MSM2.jpg

Thanks to Plotinus I have to type it again...

Problem is I don't remember what I wrote.

On this map you can see Toulouse, Narbonne, Carcassonne in between, and Pont de l'Arn just up there, on the other side of the Black Mountain (the SouthWesternmost tip of Massif Central)


http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&om=1&z=9&ll=43.363129,2.191772&spn=1.2999,1.994019&t=h

For English people, there is a direct flight from London to Carcassonne via Ryan air, and it's quite affordable. Last time, my wife paid 3 € :eek: ... plus 75 € of taxes... :eek: :eek:
Scottish and Welsh are welcome to, but I don't need if there's a direct flight. You can always go to Toulouse, and then drive to Carcassonne.

Preserved medieval Chinese city walls:

Somewhere in Hebei province:
http://www.heb.chinanews.com.cn/news/whws/2006-07-28/_1154072491_2.jpg

Nanjing in Jiangsu province:
http://www.59766.com/scenery/upic/20064440707063.jpg

http://www.59766.com/scenery/upic/20064440707058.jpg

Somewhere in Jiangxi province:
http://www.59766.com/scenery/upic/200632962514406.jpg

http://www.59766.com/scenery/upic/200632962514401.jpg

Somewhere in Guangdong province:
http://www.uu97.com/UserFiles/Image/2006223164036.jpg

The larger the city the more imposing the walls. Nanjing was the imperial capital several times thus the huge walls. Beijing must've had even bigger walls then but they have already been torn down.

It's not really a city wall, but isn't there a kind of small wall a bit north of Beijing to?

Oh that. :lol: Yeah running generally east west to the north of practically every city.

But everyone knows about that wall already so I didn't bother to post pictures of it.

Kumamoto is totally dominated by the walls of it's intimidating castle. They're sloped in such a way as to make them impregnable.

http://kumamotoben.jp/photos/20010104-futaenoishigaki.jpg

http://kumamotoben.jp/photos/20030914-takenomaru.jpg

http://www.jcastle.info/images/kumamoto/kumamoto4.jpg

Medieval walls in Rhodes, around the castle of the knights Hospitaler:

http://p.vtourist.com/2459237-The_Walls_of_the_Castle_Rhodes_Town-Rhodes_Island.jpg

http://www.travel-rhodes.com/gallery_images/50.jpg

http://www.fullpassport.com/Trip2002/images5/rhodesjillmedieval.jpg

Rhodes definately is one of the most medieval-looking greek towns :)

[Steph] I accidentally destroyed your post about where you live! I only meant to reply to it. But the "Quote" and "Edit" buttons are right next to each other. I'm always getting them mixed up but I've never actually overwritten a post by mistake like that. Sorry!

This is what I meant to reply:


For English people, there is a direct flight from London to Carcassonne via Ryan air, and it's quite affordable. Last time, my wife paid 3 € :eek: ... plus 75 € of taxes... :eek: :eek:

That's very handy information - thanks! If it happens I'll let you know...

Istambul is clearly a major city and aparenly still has a fair bit of wall remaining

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walls_of_Constantinople

Medieval walls in Rhodes, around the castle of the knights Hospitaler:

http://p.vtourist.com/2459237-The_Walls_of_the_Castle_Rhodes_Town-Rhodes_Island.jpg


This is so beautiful it can't be true! :eek: And it's so close to me!! Wow!!

http://www.basel.ch/pictures/full/17271/spalentor.jpg
http://www.basel.ch/pictures/page/17197/wehrgang_st._alban.jpg

I'm in no mood to search long, this is what I quickly found for my hometown. These walls are omnipresent in Europe, but only in small parts (keep in mind). You will find small part here, small part there, and that's it.

m

Yes, large cities with complete wall are very rare. But smaller towns (those that didn't grew during the 18-19th centuries) often kept them mostly intact. Even those have often been repaired/partially rebuilt, first to conform to 19th century ideals of “national monuments”, and also to look complete for visiting tourists. Carcassonne is an example of this.

Verbose mentioned Visby:
http://www.visit-stockholm.com/images-stockholm/visby.jpg

I mentioned Aigues-mortes as well, where St Loius set out on his crusade to Egypt in 1250 from, which has given the place a special significance in French history.
It's also one of these towns thrown up from scratch by the Capetingian dynasty in the 13th c. with a square grid street system. This case they needed a decent port on the newly conquered Med coast.
http://accel7.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/08/02/63/gard/aigues-mortes.jpg

Here's a pic from Romania:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Sibiu_cetatii.jpg

It's from Sibiu, which is this year European capital of culture together with Luxembourg. :D
I think those walls were built around 1200.

There are lots around here, especially in Transylvania, but most of them are far from well preserved.

[Steph] I accidentally destroyed your post about where you live! I only meant to reply to it. But the "Quote" and "Edit" buttons are right next to each other. I'm always getting them mixed up but I've never actually overwritten a post by mistake like that. Sorry!

This is what I meant to reply:



That's very handy information - thanks! If it happens I'll let you know...


your not alone for that mistake, i've done it a few time on some of the boards that I help run

And Constantinople had 3 walls I believe, so I would hope that some of the wall would be left

There is a small part left of the aprox 2700 year old wall that protected the greek colony of Tomis.
I think artificial hills were built around dacian times. But ... it's a hill, nothing to see. :crazyeye:

The heptapyrgion (byzantine fort on the walls) in this city:

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/SalonikiHeptapyrgion1.jpg

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Cities/Images/SalonikiHeptapyrgion2.jpg

http://www.hanefors.info/OldWall.jpg

Since this thread has been revived three days ago, here's some more from Romania:

Sibiu:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Sibiu_-_Pasajul_Scarilor.jpg
(huge pic, that's why I didn't post it directly) It's one of my favorite pics, too bad it's not such a great quality.


Rasnov (sorry I don't have the special characters):
http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov1-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov2-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov3-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov4-m.jpg
http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov5-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov6-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov7-m.jpg http://www.mi-fort.home.ro/rasnov/rasnov8-m.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Rasnov_overview.jpg (big pic, but very nice)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Rasnov_Fortress_01.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/Ras1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/Ras2.jpg

Old Teutonic Castle/town of Malbork in Poland: http://www.malbork.pl/mwc/images/zamek/zamek1.jpg

I believe it is said to be the biggest hipe of bricks north (or was it east?) of the Alps. Seven layers of walls to the inner court, and with central heating!

Old Teutonic Castle/town of Malbork in Poland: http://www.malbork.pl/mwc/images/zamek/zamek1.jpg

I believe it is said to be the biggest hipe of bricks north (or was it east?) of the Alps. Seven layers of walls to the inner court, and with central heating!
Wouldn't a castle built of out bricks be a tad fragile? At least compared to good stone.

Those where medieval bricks man! Totaly massive, very sturdy, cheaper than stone, not the puxxy bricks we have to day that are hollow or porous for insulation.

It was the main burgh of the Teutonic knights and after the battle at Grunwald in 1410 the Poles/Lithuanians failed to take it after a several year siege (if I remember correctly), the place was practicaly impregnable in those days. "German engeneering" and all that.

Its not a far trip from Sweden and Gdansk is around the corner, on a clear day you can actualy see the top tower of the burgh from the tallest church tower in oldtown Gdansk.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Malbork_1.jpg/800px-Malbork_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Malbork_zamek2.JPG/450px-Malbork_zamek2.JPG

It is strikingly "medieval" when your there.

Very nice castle. :thumbsup: :D

Bits of Norwich City wall survive.

http://www.norwich.gov.uk/webapps/citywall/Introduction/Hoyle_Map.jpg

The island of Okinawa has many medieval fortifications. I used to love exploring them

Unfortunately, they're not wholly intact, thanks to the incredible destruction that resulted in the Battle of Okinawa. You can see shells in the walls, and find them on the ground, nearly anywhere on the island

I don't have any pics though...

Here is a pic of Krakow the old polish capital. Most of the wall around the old town is gone and in its place there is a long park that starts and ends at the royal castle.http://www.krakow.pl/en/miasto/wizytowka/img/0012.jpg

this here is a part of whats left of the fortifications:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Barbakan_Krakow.jpg

And this is the castle as seen from the other side of the Wisla:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Wawel2.jpg/800px-Wawel2.jpg

Hey I've been to Krakow. :D

Wow! :eek: I think I've just added a half-dozen places to my list of "Places I Want To Visit Someday."

Those Rhodes photos are amazing! :) And the Gdansk fortifications are very attractive. The Romanian view is simply breathtaking. :)

I can recommend Avignon, with the Papal palace, as well.:goodjob:
http://www.jorgetutor.com/francia/provence/avignon/avignon2.jpg

York and Chester are two other English cities with exellent medieval walls.

Actually Chester's only seem Medieval, they are in fact mostly a Georgian/Victorian rebuild based on what was still left of the walls as they had been badly battered by Parlimentary forces during the English Civil War. The majority of the current gates are modern replacements to improve traffic flow through the city. In essence although they retain much of the character of the pre-ECW walls and are on the same layout but they aren't quite the same.

Anyway here are some photos.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/privatehudson/101_0411.jpg

A view of chester's walls near the river Dee

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/privatehudson/101_0351.jpg

The current eastgate with the Jubilee Clock. The walls run along the top of the gate.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/privatehudson/101_0394.jpg

The King's Tower - so called because King Charles stood on the top of the tower and watched his defeated army return from Rowton Moor. After this defeat the city was subjected to a siege and extensive bombardment in which a large number of buildings were damaged or destroyed and the walls were badly damaged.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/privatehudson/chester-capenhurst033.jpg

Chester Castle. What you can see dates from around the 12th century and consists of an inner bailey curtain wall, an inner bailey gateway and two towers. The remainder of the building was demolished in the 18th century proving that it's not just modern city fathers who lack the sense to preserve our history...

The city street with the clock looks absolutely fabulous!

Here's a better pice of that view you saw, its taken from just below the clock.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/privatehudson/101_0400.jpg

The shops take after the walls in the sense that they're of a medieval/renaissance design but many were built in the georgian or victorian period. An unusual feature of them is the "rows" which sees two levels of shops with a walkway for the upper level.

http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/images.big/chester52big.jpg

dang

All these pics make me hate never having been to Europe :(

dang

All these pics make me hate never having been to Europe :(
It's not this nicer all over. Gotta pick the cherries.:scan::)

More walls from Spain. Here there are city walls in almost every city, made at roman times or medieval (muslim and christian). Many are not complete, fragmented and mixed with more modern buildings, but many are practically intact and in his original state.

Lugo: (Not medieval, either but from Roman times i think)
http://www.estudiosmoreno.net/galeria/data/media/6/lugo.jpg

Tarragona:
http://www.porttarragona.es/IMAGES/muralles_gran.jpg

Cadiz: (These massive sea city walls are not medieval exactly but a bit later)
http://static.flickr.com/42/111400053_0e34f75659.jpg

Sevilla (this one is muslim):
http://travelinginspain.com/sevilla/city_wall3.jpg

Cordoba (another muslim wall):
http://www.infocordoba.com/spain/andalusia/cordoba/photos/alcazar/images/alcazar_f076.jpg

Toledo:
http://www.diputoledo.es/munitur/aytos/toledo/45168015.jpg

Astorga: (dont mix the cathedral with the city walls, the walls are the one made with round towers and are much older (third century) than the medieval cathedral)
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/40324/astorga.jpg

Antequera:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Antequera_Alcazaba2004.jpg/800px-Antequera_Alcazaba2004.jpg

Another nice photo from Avila to finish:
http://www.jorgetutor.com/spain/castillaleon/avila_provincia/muralla/muralla10.jpg

BTW i just found (a bit late) this web with lots of pics of about 3500 walls and castles in Spain:

http://www.castillosnet.org/spanishcastles/source/mapa.shtml

Malbork is known as Marienburg in German, and I suspect that name is a bit more known than the Polish.

mrtn

May be so, I just figured that if I call it what it's called today on the map and on Wiki, it would make it easy for the largest amount of people. Marienburg is the name of a lot of german towns.

Thanks mrtn, never heard of Malbork, but did indeed hear of Marienburg. :thumbsup:

I guess thats what its called in the history books.... of coarse not the Polish ones, dough.

Is Gdansk usualy called Danzig?

I know Lwow is usualy called Lviv by most people not Polish.

Thanks mrtn, never heard of Malbork, but did indeed hear of Marienburg. :thumbsup:

:eek: :eek: I've heard both names, but I always tended to think they were separate cities.

It could be argued either way, but what about St. Augustine, Florida: If anything, very, very, late Medieval.
http://theslamers.ministryhome.org/files/photos/St._Augustine_City_Walls_with_Scott_.JPG

If you could look to the right, you would see the Castillo de San Marcos (I guess it's a castle for it's day). And no that's not me.

I guess thats what its called in the history books.... of coarse not the Polish ones, dough.

Is Gdansk usualy called Danzig?

I know Lwow is usualy called Lviv by most people not Polish.

Here, we use both Gdansk and Danzig, Gdansk is a little too hard to pronounce. And Lwow is called "Lvov", though it's also pretty difficult to pronounce, for us. ;)

Anyway Poland had a very, very interesting history with cities changing owner and thus name.... :D

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/2/21/f_MapofPolandm_82b1d4e.png

Thanks for the info.

I guess you've had a similarily eventfull history in Romania, with AustroHungary and the lot.

I realy liked your pics, especialy the ones from Rasnov, very very nice view. The wall in Sibiu reminds me a lot of the remains of the one in Krakow, must have been built at aproximately the same time.

Thanks for the info.

I guess you've had a similarily eventfull history in Romania, with AustroHungary and the lot.

I realy liked your pics, especialy the ones from Rasnov, very very nice view. The wall in Sibiu reminds me a lot of the remains of the one in Krakow, must have been built at aproximately the same time.

Thanks. :) Yes, we had a very eventful history, but Poland had a very unique one (never heard about any other country to be taken half from its east and given a part of another one at the west, thus "migrating" to the west).

Here's a quick summary about the events here:

- First cities date 2600 BC, oldest surviving cities (Constanta - Tomis and Mangalia - Callatis) being from about 2500-2400 BC
Been the land of the Dacians, who were the last but one province to be conquered by Rome.

- Invaded 12 times by Russia

- Fought a continuous 1000 years war with Turkey, with small breaks (being the only country in Southeastern Europe not to be conquered)

- Was divided for centuries in 3 principalities: Transylvania, Wallachia (Tara Romaneasca) and Moldova, of which Transylvania was conquered by Hungary and held for well over 700 years, with some small breaks, and the territories from the coast of the Black Sea of Wallachia have been conquered almost always by someone.

- Romanian-speaking people were for centuries outside Romania's borders (actually this happens now too, a lot I might add - about 7 million people are in Moldova, Bukovina, Cahul, Ismail and Bolgrod - taken by Soviet Union and now in Ukraine; and in various places from Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece)

- Suffered the invasion of at least 5 nomad people: Huns, Gepids, Pechenegs, Cumans and Mongols.

- For a (too) long time, it was exactly at the meeting point of 3 great empires: Ottoman, Tsarist, and Austro-Hungarian.
(pretty unlucky position I'd say ;))

Prepare for a looooooong post with pics of medieval walls from Romania..... :D

Here's a whole bunch of photos of medieval walls from Romania. There are hundreds of them, together with fortified churches (which are an international attraction). Best preserved medieval towns in the area are in Transylvania, most interesting churches in Moldova and oldest ruins in Dobrogea (Dobrudja).

OK I'll start with the smaller ones:

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4535e08196a48DSC06275.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/45c8b647d0c88HPIM2533.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4535e00e290fdDSC06273.jpg

The white tower from Brasov, there are actually walls around it but you can't see them now:
http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4535e03d077b0DSC06274.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/45be24e64600cla_munte_card_256_340.jpg

Cetatea Neamtului:
http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/45be231ba9a8ala_munte_card_256_315.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/45be239f637c3la_munte_card_256_322.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4569c1c68b1ffintregul%20ansamblu.JPG

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4569c211e7464promontoriul%20cetatii.JPG

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4533c4747e93dbolkacs006.jpeg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/454624b58e3efzid%20de%20aparare.JPG
(hard to believe, but that's actually a medieval wall, trust me!)

Rasnov again:
http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4495493320b77rasnov3_serban_draghici.jpg

http://www.brasov-hotels.ro/images/dbase/medieval/2.jpg

(the wall is behind the tower)
http://www.brasov-hotels.ro/images/dbase/medieval/1.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b22063da435Picture%20035.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b2210722207Picture%20039.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b2210722207Picture%20039.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b22355decc6Picture%20046.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b226ce5ff37Picture%20056.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b227d843237Picture%20052.jpg

http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/44b22cef5cbbbPicture%20068.jpg



Strada Sforii, in Brasov, is medieval and considered to be the smallest street in Europe:
http://www.poze-romania.ro/images/prod/4535cd680ec6aStrada%20cea%20mai%20mica%20din%20Eur opa.jpg

What a coincidence, Oldtown in Stockholm is supposed to have the worlds narrowest alley (or something of the kind), its 90cm at its narrowest point.

Those Poze-Romania pics are realy something.

York still has most of the walls left
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Micklegate_Bar.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/York_city.jpg
http://www.greatestcities.com/2331pic/044/CP45044.jpg/walls.JPG

Ahem.

There is only ONE proper fortified city in North America. It is not San Augustine :-D.

I give you the Saint-Louis gate, part of the remaining fortifications of Québec City (both San Augustine and québec being, of course, rather post-medieval)

http://www.ccdmd.qc.ca/Quebec/images/high/9004.jpg
http://www.ccdmd.qc.ca/Quebec/images/med/8999.jpg

Ahem.

There is only ONE proper fortified city in North America. It is not San Augustine :-D.

I give you the Saint-Louis gate, part of the remaining fortifications of Québec City.

http://www.ccdmd.qc.ca/Quebec/images/high/9004.jpg

Ive seen quebec's city wall. Its basically a thick garden wall.

Yes, of course, that's a garden wall gate in that picture above.

How come the gate is as wide as the street? Did they have that kind of traffic when it was built?

I really must say that those Romanian pics are the best sofar, they're so deliciously medieval, I rely feel I must visit some of those places.

It was probably meant to be large enough for troops to march in or out in more than single line, or carriages to come in and out at the time.

I'd assume the street was later adjusted to fit the gate.

Most gates I have seen have certainly not been over five meters. That gate on the picture is over ten meters, nobody needs troops to move that fast through one gate, and its a really big artillery target at that.

Ok, having checked it over the gate was indeed modified several times from the XVIIth the XIXth century.

What happened to mediaval city walls in major european cities, like London or Paris? Are they still there, or have they been demolished?

In India quite a few cities thrived inside the forts. These had 10's of thousands of inhabitants in medieveal period.

Some of them can be seen here and still survive:

Chittor:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Bappa_Rawal

Kumbhalgarh:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Maharana_Kumbha

Jodhagarh:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rao_Maldeo_Rathore

and many more......


-Digvijay

Digvijay

Those forts are freaking sweet man! Seriously!

Very nice! :D It's true the OP was talking about what happened to walls in Europe, but I think your post is welcome. :goodjob:

I've always wanted to visit India.