In the Vanilla vs Warlords (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=205143) thread, there has been a lot of campaigning for or against using the Hall of Fame (HoF) Mod. It seems this mod deserves its own discussion where its benefits can be explained, along with any impacts it might have on how we play the game.

The floor is now open for a HoF Mod expert to explain the pluses and minuses of using it. :D

I do not consider myself an expert, but other than my PBEM game, I haven't played a non-HoF mod game in months. One thing about the HoF mod that would be good for everyone to know is that the HoF Staff (its creators) have fixed many of the minor bugs that still exist in the game. They have also adjusted some of the fixes that have been placed in the Warlords game into the HoF mod. In other words, even playing vanilla you can still have some of the benefits of the warlords expansion. I apologize as I can not name these fixes specifically. You could probably find them in the HoF mod release notes (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php#release_notes) that can be found at the HoF site (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php).

Many other nice mods have been included with the HoF mod, such as these...

Autolog (defaults to disabled)
End turn Text (defaults to enabled)
Exotic Foreign Advisor (defaults to disabled)
Modified Special Domestic Advisor (defaults to disabled)
Civ4lerts (defaults to disabled)
Specialist Stacker (defaults to disabled)
Clock Turn Text (defaults to disabled)
Reminder (defaults to disabled)
Mapfinder (defaults to disabled)
Auto start file creator (defaults to disabled)
Auto exit file creator (defaults to disabled)
Regenerate Map Hot-Key [ALT-G](defaults to disabled)


One thing that is very important to note is you do not have to use the included mods. You can go into your options menu and simply turn each individual mod on or off. You can also adjust the settings for each mod in your options menu.

Memory wise I believe the mod has no effect on performance.

I've played the HoF mod too, and when I go back to vanilla civ, I really miss the foreign advisor and domestic advisor. They just help a lot with micro-management.

hmmm... Does it change stats a lot, though? Because if the stats for everything are different from normal civ that might generate some confusion for people (And by people I mean me)

The game itself works the same as the normal game. But one of the things it does/can do is listing in the F1 (domestics) screen for example which cities can still build national wonders, which specialists are used where and other usefull information that would normally require a lot of searching through city screens.

There are also some bug-fixes, most importantly a fix in the number of hammers one receives for pop-rushes in some special circumstances. This doesn't change the game for the casual player, but there were people exploiting this bug on a large scale, so it was fixed.

That dosen't sound too confusing then. According to the mod page posted above, it's only 1.25 Mb in size, too, which is nothing to worry about, I would think

I'm all for using the HoF mod even if we can't submit the game to the Hall.

I'd say only use a mod if it's under 10mb so ppl like me who only have dialup and can't get broadband can play aswell as ppl who have broadband

I'd say only use a mod if it's under 10mb so ppl like me who only have dialup and can't get broadband can play aswell as ppl who have broadband

If you check the links provided above you'll see the size requirements. For those with dialup I'll provide them here:

[civ4] Vanilla HoF Mod v.1.61.010: file size 1.25 Mb
[c4w] Warlords HoF Mod v.2.08.03: file size 1.28 Mb

With HoF mod nothing to lose only to gain micromanagment wise in every department.
(i don't even understand why all of this wasn't included in the first place, the original considerably pales in comparison.)
The only minus could be that the extra effort of download/install a mod might attract less people to join.
So then the question would be, what's more important? Quantity of participants or quality of gameplay.

The only minor inconvenience is having to start the game using the mod. This can be managed simply by double clicking the save file to open, which opens the mod automagically. Heck, even loading it in-game might do that, I must admit I haven't tried to switch to a mod on the fly.

Having the game restart itself if it's already running does cause a little delay, but it's a small price to pay for all those yummy extra features. :D

Another thing of note for those who are not used to the mod. The HoF Staff keeps it updated regularly, as you'll note the different updates. Each update self-installs it into its own directory, meaning you can have every version of the HoF mod you want. When you load the save the game will automatically detect which version of the HoF mod you are using and load that version of the mod.

This is an excellent bonus as you can update to the newest version and still be able to play the previous versions.

If you check the links provided above you'll see the size requirements. For those with dialup I'll provide them here:

[civ4] Vanilla HoF Mod v.1.61.010: file size 1.25 Mb
[c4w] Warlords HoF Mod v.2.08.03: file size 1.28 Mb

1.65mb isn't that bad, it would only take me 10 mins.

If you check the links provided above you'll see the size requirements. For those with dialup I'll provide them here:

[civ4] Vanilla HoF Mod v.1.61.010: file size 1.25 Mb
[c4w] Warlords HoF Mod v.2.08.03: file size 1.28 Mb
In addition the HOF mod will compress the savefiles much more than the standard game (generally around half the size).. so if you download the saves often you will prolly end up downloading less total before game is over.. :P

Sorry, but as I know nothing of computers, please allow to put two points:

1) If I right understood, this MOD organizes better the information and fixes

some bugs; I ask if it doesn't put things out of control of the player, so

making the game poorer or less micromanaged (as one wants to say).

If not, looks nice.

2) If the idea go ahead and I'm not able to do the installation tricks maybe

can I find here someone kind enough to help me, please?

Best regards,

Sorry, but as I know nothing of computers, please allow to put two points:

1) If I right understood, this MOD organizes better the information and fixes

some bugs; I ask if it doesn't put things out of control of the player, so

making the game poorer or less micromanaged (as one wants to say).

If not, looks nice.

2) If the idea go ahead and I'm not able to do the installation tricks maybe

can I find here someone kind enough to help me, please?

Best regards,

1. It doesn't give it out of control of the player, it just makes it less work for the player. Imagine you want to get accumulate Great Merchant Points in certain cities. So you want to run only merchants. But the city governor (in-game) has the tendency to automatically assign priest specialists when a city grows. You don't want those priests, so you'd have to check very often if the governor didn't assign any priests in those cities, every time having to find those cities and open the city window. With the HoF Mod, you'll only have to press F1, and then you can see for each city which specialists are being used at that moment. This saves you a lot of time.

2. I would help you, and there are many more people here, or in the HoF forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166) who could help you with it.

I would also help you, and anyone else that needed it. That is another nice thing about this mod. Since it is required to submit to the Hall of Fame tables and it is required on both the G/WOTM and SGOTM games there are a lot of both CFC members and moderators that would be able to help out with any problems.

Just to reiterate what dutchfire has already said, one of the best places to find help, advise, or answers about the HoF mod is in the HoF Forums.

Thank you Dutchfire and Methos.

Poll is up (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206241)

Am I missing something, or is HoF Windoze only?

It currently is.
But that doesn't matter, we've decided in the poll that we won't use it.

It currently is.
But that doesn't matter, we've decided in the poll that we won't use it.

1) The results of that poll are disputed.

2) The game isn't going ot start for at least two weeks so there is plenty of time to discuss and repoll the question.

3) I am not going to post what I really want to say about you and your attitide dutchfire. I would be more than happy to convey my thoughts to you in a private message if you're interested.

Well, if the question is re-polled, I would urge folks to consider how it would limit non-Windoze players.

if we repoll everything because theres no majority wont that just take away from the quality of the game? or is this just a desperate cry from someone who didnt get his/her way? hahaha

Removed - not worth it.

-- Ravensfire

wow it took me unawares i was either taunting, name-calling or even whining. i was simply stating a conclusion that i had come to after reading the posts in this forum. its not my fault that some people cant differentiate between banter and insults.. learn to interpret a meaning before you condemn or insult my actions ravensfire. it would be appreciated

Removed - not worth it.

-- Ravensfire

if we repoll everything because theres no majority wont that just take away from the quality of the game? or is this just a desperate cry from someone who didnt get his/her way? hahaha

Ramming plurality choices through will take away from the quality of the game. Rest assured, I will not be repolling everything because there's no majority decision, just those that are important to me. It is also important to establish when majority decisons have been made so we will know (objectively) when an elected official is authorized to make his or her own decision.

Well, if the question is re-polled, I would urge folks to consider how it would limit non-Windoze players.

Can this be clarified, as I'm unsure what you are saying. The HoF mod can be used in both Windows and Mac format, as to any others I have no knowledge of. What I'm confused about is how exactly does the HoF mod differentiate between whether you are using Windows or not? If you use a Mac computer than you can't look at the save anyway, so how does the HoF mod have anything to do with this? Note: I believe a Mac user can't view a Windows save and vice versa, but please clarify me if I'm wrong.

I don't see how the HoF mod adjusts the save so that you can't view it in whatever format you use.

Can you please explain more 730195.

Am I missing something, or is HoF Windoze only?

It currently is.


I think that is how the confusion started. There is a version of the HOF-Mod for Mac which was compiled for the GOTMs - so HOF-Mod is not Windoofs only...

Ramming plurality choices through will take away from the quality of the game. Rest assured, I will not be repolling everything because there's no majority decision, just those that are important to me. It is also important to establish when majority decisons have been made so we will know (objectively) when an elected official is authorized to make his or her own decision.

how are we to discern what is an important decision and what isnt? and if a poll is considered important and affects the game directly, is it right to declare majority only? what if a majority of that poll doesnt happen for a day. a week. 2 weeks. how long are we all willing to wait to continue on? i agree that some polls and ideas should have a majority vote.. but it should be rare and well placed. when i look at polls i see side A and side B. A is the clear winner of the vote. By 1 vote, by 20. I dont think it matters. Side A beat side B. That means that more people wanted a decision to be made a certain way. I dont believe percentages should matter.. but oh well.. im just rambling now

3) I am not going to post what I really want to say about you and your attitide dutchfire. I would be more than happy to convey my thoughts to you in a private message if you're interested.

I am interested.

I don't get the problem with HoF mod poll, why isn't there a majority in the poll? Unless the laws of mathematics have changed recently the poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206241) indicates a favour for not using the HoF mod. (yes: 16 votes [37.21%]; no: 20[46.51%]; abstain 7 votes [16.28%]). The abstain votes don't belong to either group so no prevails with 4 more votes. It's not a big majority (I can agree with that) but it is a majority.

Feel free to read more here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5097981#post5097981).

If HoF mod is available for Macs, does anyone have a link? I looked at the HoF site and the only download I could see was .exe.

I don't get the problem with HoF mod poll, why isn't there a majority in the poll? Unless the laws of mathematics have changed recently the poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206241) indicates a favour for not using the HoF mod. (yes: 16 votes [37.21%]; no: 20[46.51%]; abstain 7 votes [16.28%]). The abstain votes don't belong to either group so no prevails with 4 more votes. It's not a big majority (I can agree with that) but it is a majority.

Feel free to read more here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5097981#post5097981).

I agree - even though I think the game is more fun with the HOF-Mod (with all the information at a glance instead of having to search for it) - I think that it has been decided...

If HoF mod is available for Macs, does anyone have a link? I looked at the HoF site and the only download I could see was .exe.


I have been looking for it and AlanH did his best to conceal it for non-GOTM participants ;) but here you are for Vanilla (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190089) and Warlords (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=200451) - regardless of DG I can highly recommend to try this mod :goodjob:

@ ori
Didn't know that, as it was made by the GotM staff instead of the HoF staff.
But I doubt Windows-saves can be loaded in the Mac version anyway.

ori,

Thanks for the link! I downloaded and installed it with zero problems. Started a game and it seems to work and looks like some nice features, so I think I'll be happy whichever way this finally ends up.

Well, if there is a Windoze HoF save somewhere, I'll download it and see it my Mac can run it.

148010

This is a game using the latest version of the HoF mod, the one we would be using if it would get/have gotten a majority.

Well, the first problem is the Mac mod is version 009 and the file is version 010. I renamed things to match and got a bit further. Now a message pops up: "The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed". When you hit OK, Civ quits. If anyone knows the authours of these things, maybe a compatible version is in the works. I'll poke around and see what I find.

Well, the first problem is the Mac mod is version 009 and the file is version 010.

Apparently it hasn't been updated yet. Check out the SGOTM3 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) page as we are playing using v.1.61.09. Just try one of their saves. There are a few Mac teams there btw.

Just to clarify, when ever a new version is created the HoF mod creates another folder for that version. In other words you can have multiple versions of the HoF mod on your computer. Rather than renaming stuff to get it to work, just download one of the SGOTM3 saves I linked above.

BTW, if your curious about the SGOTM games SGOTM4 is accepting signups (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=205978).

The Windows version is made by the HoF staff, ask questions here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=167346).
I think that AlanH made the Mac version.

That message is because appearently the save game you choose doesn't allow mods. It's an you can specify in the game selection menu (like Always Peace/War, Permanent Alliances, No Tech Trading etc.).

The renaming seems necessary as the saved game wants the directory

mods\hof-1.61.009\ (or 010)

but what exists in the mac download is

mods\hof-mac-1.61.009

so it initially claims the mod doesn't exist. Once I did the rename, I got the same protection message when I tried to load

CDZ_SG003_AD1661_01.Civ4SavedGame

I left a message for AlanH and we'll see what happens.

Otherwise, looks like a fun mod.

Well, the answer appears to be that HoF is not compatible cross-platform.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5098910&postcount=93

Well, the answer appears to be that HoF is not compatible cross-platform.


In other words, you unfortunately can't view the save no matter what. So technically you'd vote 'Abstain' (unless you have a preference) since it won't work for you with or without the mod.

That sucks for all the Mac players in the DG. Looks like the DP is going to need to post a lot of screenies for our Map players.

At the moment, HoF has lost in the polls, so we won't face that problem. Just don't make too many enemies in the Windoze camp or they may poll again. ;-)

We could approach the HoF mod designers to use compatible naming conventions. When a protected game starts, it checksums the mods folder and compares that to the stored checksum in the game. If there is a mismatch, it refuses to load the game. It may be that a Mac checksum can never equal a Windows checksum, in which case the Mac users are stuck even if we don't use the mod, if we select the no cheat / protect assets flag.

If we had protected the DG1 save, there would have been a problem even between Windows users on versions with different directory sort orders. I'm pretty sure that bug was fixed in 1.61, but we had started on 1.52.

Is protecting DG2 a given? Would anyone care to generate an unprotected Windows HoF save and see if I can load it?

I think the HoF saves are all protected, it's one of the features of the mod. The checkbox might not even appear.

There is a strong push for protecting regardless of the HoF mod usage, enough that I didn't see it as something that would need to be polled.

I am interested.

Private message sent. Remember, you asked for it.

Is protecting DG2 a given? Would anyone care to generate an unprotected Windows HoF save and see if I can load it?

I have uploaded the following three files:

HOF-Mod unprotected
NoMod unprotected
NoMod LockModifiedAssets
all from the Windows platform. Could you test them and tell us which of these can be loaded on Mac? If Lock Modified Assets precludes Mac players even when No Mod is used I think we should poll it - Opinions anyone? ;)

@730195: please tell me (or pm) when you have loaded the saves so that I can delete them when they are no longer needed.

There is a strong push for protecting regardless of the HoF mod usage, enough that I didn't see it as something that would need to be polled.

We've had some experience with saves that weren't protected :sad: (Not in DG1 though)

ori,

Both NoMod files loaded fine, so vanilla protection looks ok.

The HoF mod file causes a restart to load the mod and the startup messages get through "Init engine", but never make it to "Init fonts" and then Civ4 quits silently. No message. No log that I can find. Just gone.

ori,
Both NoMod files loaded fine, so vanilla protection looks ok.

The HoF mod file causes a restart to load the mod and the startup messages get through "Init engine", but never make it to "Init fonts" and then Civ4 quits silently. No message. No log that I can find. Just gone.

fine, atleast the LockModifiedAssets flag does not cause problems.
The problems with the HOF-Mod I fully expected after reading superslug's comments in the HOF-forum - the fact that the HOF does not accept Mac submissions and that the GOTM Succession games require Mac-only teams indicate that they see no easy solution for making the HOF-Mod cross-platform compatible

So, does your research mean that Mac users can look at the windows save as long as we don't use the HoF mod?

So, does your research mean that Mac users can look at the windows save as long as we don't use the HoF mod?

Yes, I was able to load locked and unlocked Windows saves on a Mac. They were just simple turn 1 saves, but I suspect that is good enough. If you have a link to a more complex save, I'll be happy to check that too.

Yes, I was able to load locked and unlocked Windows saves on a Mac. They were just simple turn 1 saves, but I suspect that is good enough. If you have a link to a more complex save, I'll be happy to check that too.

Unfortunately I don't have time to give you a link, but I suggest you go to the Succession Games forums and you can find all the advanced saves you'll need there. Just check any of those threads and there should be several saves available.

I apologize I can't provide you a link, but I'm getting ready to walk out the door.

Let us know what you find.

Let us know what you find.

Yes, please do. If MAC users will be able to load any DG save then that makes me rethink my stance on using (and repolling) the HoF mod. I wouldn't push for a mod that prevented players from participating to the extent they wanted to.

And thanks to all of you who have been looking into this. :goodjob:

Yes, please do. If MAC users will be able to load any DG save then that makes me rethink my stance on using (and repolling) the HoF mod. I wouldn't push for a mod that prevented players from participating to the extent they wanted to.

And thanks to all of you who have been looking into this. :goodjob:

Well, I downloaded

RB27 - Barbarian Tokugawa AD-1535.Civ4SavedGame (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144827&d=1166939662)

and it played fine. Thing is I don't know what it was saved in - Windows is the obvious first guess, so maybe a Windows user could download it and be sure it runs there too. But we do look good as far as vanilla civ4 being cross-platform.

I decided to expan our question so I have posted a thread in the [civ4] Mac Forums (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=199) asking about playing Windows saves on a Mac computer. You can find it at the link below:

Playing a Windows save on a Mac (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5104458#post5104458)

I wouldn't push for a mod that prevented players from participating to the extent they wanted to.

I agree. If we learn that Mac players can load and play an unmodded Windows save I would push we play an unmodded game if someone were to repoll this.

The result of the current poll would be for not using the mod. ;)

Well, I downloaded

RB27 - Barbarian Tokugawa AD-1535.Civ4SavedGame (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144827&d=1166939662)

and it played fine. Thing is I don't know what it was saved in - Windows is the obvious first guess, so maybe a Windows user could download it and be sure it runs there too. But we do look good as far as vanilla civ4 being cross-platform.
runs fine - since it seems to be clear that the HOF-Mod would preclude Mac players from participating I also strongly support leaving decisions on this as they are and go ahead without the Mod.

The result of the current poll would be for not using the mod. ;)

No, DaveShack. The result of the current poll is that the majority has not decided the issue, since there was no majority vote for either option. Yes, I'm counting abstain votes and if you or anyone else want to argue that abstain should not be counted then I'd say the poll was unfair because it did not include an other option and was polled too quickly. The reality of it is that further discussion in this thread has been such that some of us who voted yes might have voted no thereby resulting in an actual majority decision.

Now before you jump down my throat I realize that a non-decision in this case really means a decision not to use the mod, but there is an important distinction between a decision and a non-decision and this will become even more important as the game goes on and we encounter issues we are split on as a group.

because it did not include an other option

We could use the mod, or we could not use the mod, there's no alternative.

was polled too quickly.

At the time I started the poll, there had been about 3 days of discussion here and more in another thread. The first day of this thread, some people asked some questions, and they were answered, then there was no discussion for a day, then there was 1 question asked, and it was answered completely. At that moment, it looked to me like everything had been discussed, and 4 days later someone brought up the issue about Mac. At the time the poll was posted it looked like all discussion was over. Therefor I think me posting that poll at that moment was totally justified.

You're just going to have to accept that it is a decision, majority or not. The poll is closed, and No wins. This is not my opinion, it is the people's opinion, everyone but you. Either prove I'm wrong, or drop the issue.

You're just going to have to accept that it is a decision, majority or not. The poll is closed, and No wins. This is not my opinion, it is the people's opinion, everyone but you. Either prove I'm wrong, or drop the issue.

You know as well as I do DaveShack that there is nothing I can say that will prove to YOU that the poll was unfair. You see the world the way you see it and refuse to see other people's point of view.

Yes, only two sensible options existed, use the mod or not. Yes, it looked like it was an appropriate time to poll according to the actual duscussion up to that time. BUT, and this is a big BUT, subsequent information was revealed that would have altered the outcome of the vote. (If we repoll the thing now I bet there would be an overwhelming - and majority - vote against using the mod). Add to this the fact that this is a decison that need not have been made for two more weeks. There was no compelling reason to rush to a poll here. Giving it a little bit of time would have prevented alot of bickering and allowed us to come to a happy consensus..

And I'm NOT going to drop the issue. I've been talking about majority decisons for quite awhile now and when the game actually starts it will be very important for us to know what actually constitutes a decision. We can discuss this issue constructively now or we can bicker, argue and fight about it after the game starts. Is that what you want to do? I'd be more than happy to press the issue later if you don't want to decide it now.

I think what this really calls for is an inititive to DEFINE the use majority, DEFINE when simple greatest number of votes is the victor, DEFINE the role of abstain, and DEFINE a poll maker's rights (or lack there of) to announce at the start of the poll how the results will be interpreted.

Donsig, if these were defined in writing and approved with a >50% majority would that satisfy you?

I think what this really calls for is an inititive to DEFINE the use majority, DEFINE when simple greatest number of votes is the victor, DEFINE the role of abstain, and DEFINE a poll maker's rights (or lack there of) to announce at the start of the poll how the results will be interpreted.

Donsig, if these were defined in writing and approved with a >50% majority would that satisfy you?

There is a thread for this initiative you speak of. We can just poll that initiative.

And I'm NOT going to drop the issue. I've been talking about majority decisons for quite awhile now and when the game actually starts it will be very important for us to know what actually constitutes a decision. We can discuss this issue constructively now or we can bicker, argue and fight about it after the game starts. Is that what you want to do? I'd be more than happy to press the issue later if you don't want to decide it now.

You're welcome to try to convince people your view of majority decisions is the best one, but this issue on HoF mod has been decided.

(If we repoll the thing now I bet there would be an overwhelming - and majority - vote against using the mod).

, but this issue on HoF mod has been decided.

:lol: Okay, just to clarify, both of you appear to agree that the HoF Mod is out, even though neither of you seem to say you agree with the other. :D

I believe this subject needs to be taken to a different thread, as its confusing the issue since it is still taking place in the HoF Mod thread.

There is a thread for this initiative you speak of. We can just poll that initiative.

I assume you are refering to Ravensfire's post in the "What should we do to ensure polling is fair?" thread?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5094837&postcount=39

Didn't see that before... the actual practical proposal kinda got lost in the arguing, and I missed it....

Ravensfire seems opposed to putting a section on Abstain in there though, due to the conflicting opinions of whether it should be used at all.

Well, I read donsig's replies as saying he's going to repoll it, even though we've already made the right decision, because we made the right decision the wrong way. :crazyeye: To which my response is knock yourself out, just don't knock us out doing it. :D

Is that a lock request? I haven't locked any threads yet. ;) Or warned anyone for threadjacking, perhaps that would be the right approach. :mischief:

But really, to be on topic here, the mod has plenty of benefits. It would be a goodness if it were possible to use it. However we have set a precedent with the Vanilla vs Warlords vote that we don't want to unnecessarily exclude anyone. I honestly think the subject is done, both at the discussion level and with a clear decision from the poll no matter how you score it.

I'll link this statement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5099070&postcount=791) made by Superslug in the HoF Forums, and quote it here:

I didn't realize that Mac players couldn't submit. Does it have something to do in the difference of the saves?

It's more due to the differences in the Windows/Mac Operating Systems. Cross-platform compatibility is pretty much impossible for the mod.

I'm pretty sure we're just http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/beating_a_dead_horse_by_livius.gif, but thought the above might benefit the discussion.

Sorry again, but one final link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5108925#post5108925):

could you link to the Mac versions of the HOF-Mod on the HOF page (I had to do quite some searching since I don't play the GOTMs (yet) - so if you don't look at the active GOTM/WOTM you won't find them) and there were some people asking for it in the DG threads...

The Mac versions of the HoF Mod are linked in the Mac Civ4 forum and in the GOTM forums. They are only of use for Mac players in the GOTMs, or for Mac players wanting a standalone mod for their own Mac-only games. There is no point in linking them from the HoF pages as they do not conform with the requirements for HoF use, and they cannot be used for any other cross-platform activities such as the Demo game.

It's more due to the differences in the Windows/Mac Operating Systems. Cross-platform compatibility is pretty much impossible for the mod.

Not really. The problem is that there is a custom DLL included in the mod, compiled with the Civ4 SDK. However, the Mac version of Civ4 is not currently written to handle custom DLLs. This is NOT an OS issue, and Firaxis and Aspyr COULD create a similar SDK to allow is to port and compile the mod for the Mac version of Civ4, but they haven't. If they did then I would be very happy to build a fully-compliant Mac version of the mod.

I think what this really calls for is an inititive to DEFINE the use majority, DEFINE when simple greatest number of votes is the victor, DEFINE the role of abstain, and DEFINE a poll maker's rights (or lack there of) to announce at the start of the poll how the results will be interpreted.

Donsig, if these were defined in writing and approved with a >50% majority would that satisfy you?

I dunno. Why does it have to be accepted by a 50% majority when those opposed to the majority idea are willing to accept pluralities for other decisions? But, yes General, I would be much happier if we discussed and polled the idea of using majorities only. I took a couple days away from the DG hoping to come back and write up an initiative but I just have not had time.

@DaveShack: If you've been following the discussion here and in the poll you know that we learned (after I said I would repoll this) that Mac users won't be able to look at the save if we use the HoF mod but can look at it if we don't use the mod. When we learned that I said I would not push for something that would prevent anyone from participating as much as they wanted to. I would only repoll something I wanted to pass. Since I would not even vote for the mod now I will not repoll it.

I do stand by what I said earlier. The poll resulted in a non-decision. The poll was also premature. We had well over two weeks to make the decision and a little discussion and research brought about a consensus. As you pointed out this is an instance where a majority would need to vote for using the mod for it to be used that hasn't happend so despite the non-decision of the first poll, the default decision is to not use it.

Is there still a problem here? If not I suggest we follow up on the General's suggestion to discuss and poll majority versus plurality decisions in polls.

@DaveShack: If you've been following the discussion here and in the poll you know that we learned (after I said I would repoll this) that Mac users won't be able to look at the save if we use the HoF mod but can look at it if we don't use the mod. When we learned that I said I would not push for something that would prevent anyone from participating as much as they wanted to. I would only repoll something I wanted to pass. Since I would not even vote for the mod now I will not repoll it.


Of course I've been following it, in both places. I'm much more comfortable with this clarification on your current position. Like you, usually I won't go out of my way to repoll when I agree with the 1st poll's outcome.

One more last reassurance is this post made in the Playing a Windows save on Mac (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5104458#post5104458) thread I posted above.

Just to reassure you, Methos, I am involved with a PBEM involving a coworker. I play on a MacBook, he on his PC. Whenever I'm at his office, I'll play a couple turns. Later that night, I'll play the next turns on my MacBook. There has never been a problem crossing from one platform to the other. We are playing Vanilla 1.61 :)

As much as I like the HoF Mod, I cannot see using it if it doesn't allow everyone to participate. Luckily, it looks like no one plans to repoll it.