This is a temporary citizen group for people who support using Vanilla in this game.

Many of our citizens don't have Warlords. The best democracy games have been the ones where the most people can fully participate, which means being able to open the save. It may be argued that this can be alleviated by posting lots of screenshots and analysis, but the truth remains that a citizen who doesn't have the game is severely handicapped.

I have Warlords, and I think it's a better game. But I'd have trouble going forward with using it knowing how many people would be left behind. I call on like-minded people to join me in supporting the use of Vanilla!

I'd say vanilla would be better because otherwise it's excluding vanilla players from being a DP.

Guess you beat me to making the first citizen group (I was thinking about one to advocate the organization of government.) Anywho, I'd like to join this citizen group, as it seems there will be a significant loss in participation, if Warlords is used.

Yes, this group does seem to have a very valid point... I hearby, therefore, pledge my support unto it

Just a point, When has someone not having the game stopped them from participating outside of a DP?

When they wanted to check the saves to see what was going on?

When they wanted to check the saves to see what was going on?
We always hope that the leaders post summary information about their area, so that people don't HAVE to open the save. Some do better than others. When decisions are being made, information relevant to that decision is nearly always provided. A good way to draw the ire of other citizens is to post a discussion thread without including some information!

It is entirely possible for people to participate in the DG without ever loading [civ4]. I suspect that, regardless of the version, we'll have more than a few people doing just that.

-- Ravensfire

This is true... however some people, (By which I am, of course thinking completly of myself) do like to check these things for themselves if possible... Y'know, to make sure the data is correct, or that something isn't being left out or the like... One would hope there'd be someone around able to do that even if it was played in warlords, but the might not be one around at the required time, especially in continuous play mode

The point of the Vanilla movement is that fewer people who choose not to open the save are forced into that choice by being "have nots". Can't do anything about the ones who don't even have vanilla.

You've got my support.

My support too as a newbie and non Warlord owner. I would have no idea about the differences between the two versions so I would be unlikely to post any opions at all.

I have had a lot of problems running vanilla and could not open the save for most of the last game. I found it very difficult to keep up and make any sensible comments and eventually stopped trying - I didn't have the time to scrape together what little up to date information was posted to try and make sense of it. Nothing makes up for being able to load that save. I can still unfortunately see floodplains in unexplored regions of the map so if I did load the save would have to be very careful how I commented so as not be influenced by information I would gain.

I also have Warlords. That has none of the problems that Vanilla has, however it has a whole new one - all the text in all the menus is invisible!

On the whole I'm therefore more likely to join in if we used Vanilla, however the problems I have with that mean I may not be able to participate much even with then.

CivGeneral's First Letter to the Vanilla Gamers

I have been moved by your struggle and conserns about the fate of the choice of which version of the game we play. We all come from different backgrounds. Some of us have had Vanilla for a long time and also have Warlords. Some of us waited untill we gotten a sutable computer to run Civ4. And some of us dont have the means or the money to get the expantion pack.

Eventhough I have Warlords, I myself dont want to see the other part of the demogame population to be "sweaped under the rug" as the have nots. In reality, I am indifferent if we go along with Warlords. But after hearing that many people within this population are without Warlords and there are some of us who have trouble actualy running the Vannilla game. Hearing the conserns of the people has moved me greatly to consider supporting this group to ensure that everyone has the freedom to partisipate in this game without being left behind.

I myself can sympathize because I myself was part of the have nots when Civilization 4 first came out and that I my old laptop did not have the specs to run the game itself. After I gotten a new laptop and Civ4, I still felt left behind because I had to play catch up in terms of getting aquanted with Civilization 4 itself. I myself dont wish to see people, especialy new comers who have not even played Warlords to expericne the same "playing catch up" that I did or anyone else who have been in a simmilar possition as I have.

The other reasoning that we should hold off Warlords for a while is that its still a relitively new game and people still need time to get people used to and aquanted with the expantion pack since there are still people out there who are buying the game later on. The other reasoning is stability, we should play the Demogame on a stable game rather than an unstable buggy game.

In closing, I wish to give my support to this group to ensure that the freedom to play and not be left behind to be extended to all citizens of the demogame.

Yes, Vanilla by all means. Otherwise many of the citizens, including this one, would be left just lurking.

I agree with DaveShack, precisely by the reasons he said.

Best regards,

Three cheers for Vanilla!

I've put up a poll on this here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206208

Apparently I wasn't supposed to, but it's too late now...

No, putting up a poll was fine. I started to say something in the poll then only partially retracted it. Sorry about the misunderstanding :)

You've got my support for vanilla too. I don't have warlords.

I say vanilla. Count me in.

Vanilla - no mods, more can play - we all win.