Hi guys
When Bootcamp came out, I swore blind I would never even put Windows on my Mac, never mind buy Windows games. Last weekend I cracked, and bought Civ IV Chronicles (£20 UK Sterling) for Windows (*shudder*), even though I have Civ IV + Warlords for the Mac.

I'm sick to the back teeth with the terrible Civ ports we've been getting lately. I buy games to relax and have fun in the limited spare time I have, not to endlessly browse forums waiting for news of patches to fix bugs that shouldn't have been in there in the first place - and then wait for patches to fix the patches that introduced new problems etc. Mac Civ support pre-Aspyr was poor and I really thought Aspyr would do better but quite honestly, it's been awful from Civ 3 Complete right up to Warlords. I certainly don't blame Brad or any individual, I definitely feel it's Aspyr as a company that are at fault.

I know some of you have had no problems and are wondering what the rest of us are talking about and I also know that the game wasn't perfect before Aspyr starting porting. Nevertheless, I feel that Aspyr have treated Mac gamers really badly. I have bought other Mac ports from other publishers and have never seen half the problems that these Civ ports are getting.

No, I've had enough and I'm taking no more of this nonsense. I am installing Bootcamp and Windows and I will use it purely for Civ - it won't be perfect, but at least I'll know that my Civ experience will be the best it can be, even if it is on Windows.

I'm not posting this message to brag or incite fellow Mac fanatics - I'm posting it because I want Aspyr to know that they're gaining a poor reputation (at least in the Civ community) and I want them to improve. I want them to know that I will no longer pre-order any of their future titles and I will wait until I read full reviews and check forums for lists of bugs, before I buy their products. I've wasted countless hours over the last couple of years with their buggy products and enough is enough.

I'm going to eBay my Mac copies of Civ IV + Warlords and hope to some day buy them again when I hear that Aspyr have sorted things out properly. Until then, I'm going to *enjoy* Civ - not worry about what sounds I'm missing, not worry about the game crashing out to the Desktop, not worry whether multiplayer is or isn't working, not worry about waiting for Aspyr to catch up with the latest PC patch etc etc.

I'll continue to enjoy my other excellent Mac games such as The Movies and hope future Aspyr products are much improved.

Gavin

Sorry to hear you've cracked. I do have some sympathy with your "not worry" list, and you didn't even mention 'not worry about mod compatibility', but not even that list would drive me to dual boot.

However, good luck with Windows. Do please get your protection systems in place. Oh, and try to find a copy of XP - it's probably the least-worst that Windows can be by all accounts.

Please let us know how it goes.

Another one converted! :smug: :badcomp: :badcomp: :badcomp: all macs!

Not that they don't have their uses here and there, but, for games...:dunno: :agree:

You migth be surprised how mach problem Windows users have.
Most often standart solution is "instal new Video card driver".

Don't worry, I understand that both Windows and Macs have their problems. :badcomp: :badcomp:

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the
>way computers have enhanced our lives...

At a recent computer expo
>(COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the
>auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the
>computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000
>miles to the gallon."
>

> In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press
>release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would
>all be driving cars with the following characteristics (and I just love
>this part):
>

> 1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

> 2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would
>have to buy a new car.
>

> 3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no
>reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the
>windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you
>could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
>

> 4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn
>would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you
>would have to reinstall the engine.
>

> 5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was
>reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but would run on
>only five percent of the roads.
>

> 6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights
>would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal
>Operation" warning light.

>
> 7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before
>deploying.
>
> 8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock
>you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
>handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
>
> 9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have
>to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would
>operate in the same manner as the old car.

> 10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine
>off.

Yes, don't worry, because I work in IT I'm fully aware of all the problems that Windows has (it's the reason I enjoy using my Mac outside of my day job!). I have Boot Camp setup with XP SP2 and I firewalled Windows and put on AVG anti-virus and Spybot anti-spyware before I even let it near the net. I won't be using Windows for browsing or anything whatsoever apart from Civ.

Before I did any of that, I turned Filevault on, just to competely ensure the integrity of my home folder.

The game installed nicely - I bought Civ IV Chronicles and it was already at the latest version. The opening movies etc were very smooth and although I've yet to play a full game, everything just feels *right*.

I still detest having Windows on my Mac but I've been playing Civ since Civ 1 on the Amiga and even my hatred for Windows can't hold me back from a good 10 hour session of Civ :)

I play more games than anything else and would never get a mac because of compatibility issues.

ChiefSparky: You are hereby trialed with high treason

just kidding. BUT I WONT CRACK.

Sure macs have their issues, but I would never trade a macs superb ability for compatibility. I mean, lets analyze the situation:

MAC ISSUES
-Uncompatibility with SDK proves to be a pain in the butt
-Applications crash
-Takes 6 months to get what Windows gets in 1 week
-Modding is a pain due to the lack of programs for Mac-modding

Now, onto windows:

WINDOWS ISSUES
-Slow as a starfish
-crashes and SRS (Spontaneus Restarting Syndrome) crowd the world
-Game lags and sticks
-VIRUSES! Oh the VIRUSES!

Of course this is only in terms of civilization.


ChiefSparky, you are absolved of your crime due to its humane origins :crazyeye:

ive had xp since it came out and have never gotten a virus

i use firefox and no anti virus or anti spyware

i have service pack 2

you guys are a little insane about PCs

InSaNe?!?! wHaT aRe YoU tAlKiNg AbOuT lEpReChAuN?:crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye:

ps: its just like religious fanatism, but with computers

Grrrrr

PCs =/= Windows

Those are Windows problems, run a real OS on it and the hardware is fine.

If only someone would release a version of Civ IV for Linux, but I doubt that'll happen somehow.

Please let's not start another platform war here? No one is going to change anyone's mind.

The specific thread subject is the relative capabilities of the Civ4 port for the Mac, or lack of them.

Please stick to the subject.

Hi guys, seeing as I started this thread, I thought I'd try and wrap it up with a quick rundown on how my first full game of Civ IV went on my black 2GB MacBook (CD2 2GHZ).

Filevaulted my user folder in OS X so that Windows couldn't touch it. Installed BootCamp - amazed that Apple have made this a very painless task. Patched Windows up to the hilt, installed AV and anti-spyware. Shuddered for ten minutes at the thought of Windows on my gorgeous BlackBook.

Got over it. Installed Civ 4 - it was already the latest version. Fired it up, not sure what to expect.

Guys, all I can say is wow. I played a full game on a Standard map - no crashing, no glitches, no sounds cut out, everything was flawless. Even more amazingly, Civ 4 had defaulted all my graphics to the *highest* levels and I thought I would try at these settings for a laugh. Double-wow! Everything was smooth as butter, right to the end. Relatively speaking there was a very small amount of slowdown in the final years but it was still what I would call very very smooth - MUCH smoother than I'd ever got with the Mac version despite the much reduced graphics.

It's been one game, so I'm not going to pretend the Windows Civ IV version will never crash or reveal bugs but it's looking pretty damn good so far. What irks me is that it appears the MacBook is actually a capable bit of kit after all and that somewhere along the way we're being massively shortchanged with the Mac version. I don't know if this is a Mac OS X problem (I've seen plenty of Mac games with great performance so I don't think so) or an Aspyr problem but I'm amazed at the difference on the same hardware.

I know some of you guys are investing in absolute top end Mac kit and I'm sure you're loving it but I'm kind of wondering if my little MacBook running Windows Civ IV isn't giving me better performance than your Mac Pros. That gives me no pleasure to say because do believe me, I want the Mac version to be as good or better than the Windows version but it isn't so.

I'm gutted that I have to reboot into Windows to get a good game of Civ IV on this MacBook but it's definitely the case for me. I really really hope that somehow Civ IV gets a kick up the arse on the Mac because the different in performance and stability is absolutely astonishing.

The second I can wipe this hideous Windows stuff off my gorgeous Mac, I will, but for now it's got to stay - the difference between the two Civ IV versions is like night and day.

tonyf12 - aren't you reading what I wrote? I have a Mac and I have Windows too. You no longer have to choose.

[I'll leave this subject here unless anyone wants me to do any testing or whatever, because this is a Mac forum and I don't want to hijack it]

ive had xp since it came out and have never gotten a virus

i use firefox and no anti virus or anti spyware

i have service pack 2

you guys are a little insane about PCs

sp2 helps but if you use FF u have 1% of the chance of getting a virus than IE and 40% of the chance for Netscape or Opera, Since i started using FF, i haven't got a virus in a year which is a record for me.

I'm gutted that I have to reboot into Windows to get a good game of Civ IV on this MacBook but it's definitely the case for me. I really really hope that somehow Civ IV gets a kick up the arse on the Mac because the different in performance and stability is absolutely astonishing.


Uh-oh ... looks like I might just have been convinced to do the same ... <shudder>.

ChiefSparky, yours are the first sensible posts i've ever seen in the Mac forum. Congrats and enjoy the game :)

SparkY -- This thread has addresses most of my questions re: whether to buy XP or Civ4-Mac for my MBPro. My only concern is going online to play MP.

I started selling Apple ][s way back in the 1980s. Since then I've had all kinds of Macs, Classics, Performas, LCIIIs, iMacs and various PowerBooks. Right now I'm enjoying a brand new 24" iMac with 2GB of RAM. It's by far the best machine Apple has ever put out and easily the best value for money of the lot.

How sad that my favourite game drives me completely NUTS on it. Even with the latest patch installed, the video is constantly scrambled or flickering, I experience random crashes, and the sound is rotten. In despair I installed WinXP via BootCamp and went back to the PC version. The graphics is FAR sharper and I never get the slightest hint of a graphics problem even though it's using exactly the same card!

If Apple ever wants to increase its market share to more than 10% it had better start getting the game developers into line. Fuzzy, buggy ports that arrive 6-12 months after the PC version just doesn't cut it any more.

Hi guys, seeing as I started this thread, I thought I'd try and wrap it up with a quick rundown on how my first full game of Civ IV went on my black 2GB MacBook (CD2 2GHZ).


[I'll leave this subject here unless anyone wants me to do any testing or whatever, because this is a Mac forum and I don't want to hijack it]

Holy smokes...you may have just wooed me over to the darkside. You got the highest graphics settings out of a Macbook?!? I'm assuming this is Core Duo 2, right? I'm on a Core Duo 1 Macbook with only 1 Gb of RAM, so please assure me that your great results are out of my reach so that I'm not tempted to BootCamp to get a decent Civ experience. Puh-lease!!!

Holy smokes...you may have just wooed me over to the darkside. You got the highest graphics settings out of a Macbook?!? I'm assuming this is Core Duo 2, right? I'm on a Core Duo 1 Macbook with only 1 Gb of RAM, so please assure me that your great results are out of my reach so that I'm not tempted to BootCamp to get a decent Civ experience. Puh-lease!!!

Yes, I've a Core Duo 2 - I've also got 2GB of RAM which I'd imagine makes the biggest difference. Sadly the highest settings in BootCamp work more smoothly than the lowest settings in OS X.

Yes, I've a Core Duo 2 - I've also got 2GB of RAM which I'd imagine makes the biggest difference. Sadly the highest settings in BootCamp work more smoothly than the lowest settings in OS X.

Must be that slow slow windows that makes all the difference.

Must be that slow slow windows that makes all the difference.

It's a bad port, nothing else - so let's not get into platform wars.

"However, good luck with Windows. Do please get your protection systems in place"

I actually havent bothered with a virus checker and firewall in a long time simply cause I stopped having any issues. I think the use of autoupdater is when I really stopped having any issues. Prior to autoupdater I occasionally had to use hijackthis to remove stuff from my computer (like once a year). But since autoupdater there is like only a tiny window where an exploit can effect you.

Its not like I do it cause im computer illiterate. I am a programming hobbyist and computer science minor and community college computer programming course having and amateur computer geek. I just stopped running them when they stopped being a factor. NPs here. Occasionally I run an online virus checker to check and I do run the microsofts antispyware program. Oh I use the autoupdater too. But ehh. I dont really care about peoples opinions just saying tally up one person that uses windows and never has any special problems with security.

Now my little sister who is 13 and got her first laptop. OMG~ She is hopeless. But shes an idiot. Windows it turns out isnt stupid proof. If you do stupiod things like run everything anyone tells you too. you will prolly have stupid problems.

Anyway. Just thought I would let you know your description of what will happen to him with windows doesnt at all describe what my use of windows is like.

Its not a platform war its just sort of a correction. Running around implying "oh nos if you run windows without a firewall and a virus scanner you will have constant problems " just makes me squint my nose, raise my shoulders, and go "wah? guess it depends on the person..."

"However, good luck with Windows. Do please get your protection systems in place"

You are a troll. Shut up.

I have owned a windows computer for years, online, and have had zero problems.

You are a troll. Shut up.
I am a mod, and therefore, by definition, I do not troll. If you have a problem with my style, please report my posting to Thunderfall.

I have owned a windows computer for years, online, and have had zero problems.

... and you have no protection systems?

i have a friend, and he got a brand new HP laptop. it is soooo cool.

its been three weeks now. He can't use it because it is OVERFLOWING with viruses. Last count he had 103.

he has around 3 protection softwares.

mac doesn't have that problem because there aren't that many viruses for it.

heh

true, windows definitely isn't foolproof, but 103 viruses? your friend must be doing something wrong. AlanH, my PC has windows xp service pack 2, a resident free virus scanner that has never found anything, the windows firewall that comes with windows, and a constant connection to the internet. that's all the "protection" I have.

I think that if you are unaware of the dangers of the internet, and visit porn sites and download all their links and go to Kazaa and download every file you see, you will run into problems. But if you're smarter than that you'll be fine.

But I don't want to argue macs are superior or inferior to PCs, I'm just saying I think they are more secure in the hands of savvy computer users than you people seem to think.

And I apologize AlanH for name calling. I know you aren't a troll.

You are a troll. Shut up.

I have owned a windows computer for years, online, and have had zero problems.

By definition, he's in the wrong forum if he wants to troll. Surely he'd be trolling in a non-Mac forum?

This thread is about the performance of the Civ 4 Mac OS X port. Alan offered sound advice about securing Windows as much as possible. Doubtless, it is a usable OS in the right hands, if you take the right precautions, continue with the right maintenance, and use it for the right things...

Yeah I was rude. Sorry to alanH

Apology accepted and appreciated. Case closed.

BTW, my comments were only intended in the spirit that a Mac user may not be as well prepared as you seasoned Windows campaigners against the slings and arrows. FWIW, I run a free anti-virus scanner on my system as well, even though there are no known, active OS X viruses, and I have a hardware firewall. It costs very little, and might save a lot of heartache. And my AV software *has* spotted a couple of Linux-specific nasties in some suspicious files that I deliberately downloaded from a web site for investigation.

Where did you get the free anti-virus scanner?

ClamXav (http://www.markallan.co.uk/clamXav/)

Question is, how well do the latest Windows iterations of Civ4 do on a standard MacBook (i.e. using Intel, not Radeon/NVIDIA)? If anything could convince me to set up BootCamp (and buy a Windows operating system), it's if the IBM version isn't so picky about graphics systems.

Question is, how well do the latest Windows iterations of Civ4 do on a standard MacBook (i.e. using Intel, not Radeon/NVIDIA)? If anything could convince me to set up BootCamp (and buy a Windows operating system), it's if the IBM version isn't so picky about graphics systems.

Haven't you read this thread? :) My posts have been about a standard MacBook using Intel graphics - not a MacBook Pro.

Honestly, if I had a Mac that could run BootCamp I would probably do it, but it would only be for the mods. I'm fairly new to Civilisation IV, but I've immediately fallen in love with the game almost as strongly as I fell in love with Alpha Centauri. I'd love to try out stuff like Sevomod, which as far as I can tell has no Mac version. (Dammit, I'm trying to find a download for The Ancient Mediterranean but the link's dead.)

I haven't noticed performance issues, and this is on a pretty slow computer by modern standards. Granted I'm playing on everything low, but graphics quality means less than nothing to me.

To be able to so easily install all sorts of interesting mods, though, would be worth the horror that is running Windows on a Mac. Not quite worth the horror of buying an actual PC, though — but perhaps that's because I couldn't afford one.

No viruis scanner here or hardware frewall. I take the risk. ;)

Windows version has one big advantage over the Mac version:
Beyond the Sword.

Windows version has one big advantage over the Mac version:
Beyond the Sword.

Beyond the Sword is not publicly available on any platform yet, is it?

No viruis scanner here or hardware frewall. I take the risk. ;)

Windows version has one big advantage over the Mac version:
Beyond the Sword.

How is that? You lucky PC guys, it isn't out for the Mac yet. I hope you are enjoying it. :)

Maybe Vista's calendar is wonky, and it's already July if you run Windows ;)

Well, i'd certainly like to know how you got Civ installed on the machine. i have a Mac Pro 3Ghz and i actually purchased Windows Vista to avoid having to purchase the Mac version of Civ IV because Civ III SUCKED so bad. However, i couldn't get the thing to install in Vista, it kept hanging on the second disk, and the OS... well... it sure is pretty if only one could do anything with it. Were you running Windows Xp? or Vista?

Well, i'd certainly like to know how you got Civ installed on the machine. i have a Mac Pro 3Ghz and i actually purchased Windows Vista to avoid having to purchase the Mac version of Civ IV because Civ III SUCKED so bad. However, i couldn't get the thing to install in Vista, it kept hanging on the second disk, and the OS... well... it sure is pretty if only one could do anything with it. Were you running Windows Xp? or Vista?

"I have Boot Camp setup with XP SP2".

BootCamp only recently got Vista support - have you got the latest version? http://www.apple.com/bootcamp/

It sounds like the problem is installing Civ4 into Vista, not Vista into Bootcamp. I have seen some odd problems (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=217192) reported with Civ4 and Vista, but not a complete installation failure.

Apologies - misread thought you said you were having trouble installing Vista itself.

Vista installed just fine. i have both the GeForce 7300 GT card and the ATI X1900 XT with 5 GB RAM, Dual Core 3GHZ Mac Pro. Although the 7300 is recognized by Vista, only the center monitor connected to the ATI card will work, the other two monitors stay black. i also get glass... but who cares? i was able to install another game, which i did just to see if it would work. i had several other crashes running Vista on the machine, but it crashes every single time on the second disk of Civ IV just as it is installing the mp3's, but it crashes on a different one each time. i had Vista installed on a 230+ GB NTFS partition on my start up drive, but have considered installing it on a different hard drive to see if that works... as i deleted it from the system already anyway. i mean there is no reason to have Vista on my system if it won't run what i want it to run. i have considered getting Windows XP, but don't want to give M$ any more of my money...

It's a bad port, nothing else - so let's not get into platform wars.

The main problem with the MacBook is that the GMA 950 drivers for OS X are really just not up to snuff vs. Windows (it is for this reason that the GMA 950 is also "unsupported" by the Mac version of Civ4). I'm fairly satisfied with the way the performance of Mac Civ4 benchmarks against Windows on an Intel iMac with a Radeon X1600, as a counter-example.

The current patches for Civ4 also roll in some optimizations on the Mac (Intel-only, I'm afraid, as we rely on new OpenGL features from Apple only present on Intel Macs) that continue to narrow the gap.