While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Settler
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Any
Speed: Epic
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.61.010
Date: 11th to 24th February 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT THIS IS A VANILLA ONLY!

Gosha, enjoy Epic Settler Diplomacy :D

Gosha, enjoy Epic Settler Diplomacy :D
Sitting this one out? :confused:

I have actually never played below Prince except one GOTM long time ago, I suppose it'll be early rush with capturing defenceless cities, technological growth with GP shortcuts to MM and mostly self-voting. Don't feel like it currently, although who knows what'll happen in 2 weeks.

I will admit that any win at Settler is a cakewalk for a seasoned player, but with good enough dates, there may yet be competition. What I'm really hoping for is that an occasional low-level Gauntlet will draw in some new faces who are looking to learn and build confidence.

I'll perfectly understand if experts don't participate in this one (and go for the Major instead), but I hope people will stop by and help out those that do go for it.

The help I can give applicable is only research-wise. Those not participation in SGOTM-3 can go to CFR-W thread to get some idea of optimal research path.

That could be useful. Do you have a link?

Sure:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193962
It's long (22 pages) and part of the discusison was held in Russian forum, but all turnset descriptions ar ethere and major strategic ideas too.

One note - the level is Monarch, so we rely on getting certain techs from trade; won't expect such luxury on Settler

This will be another BC win; I don't know how but it will get done :)

I will admit that any win at Settler is a cakewalk for a seasoned player, but with good enough dates, there may yet be competition. What I'm really hoping for is that an occasional low-level Gauntlet will draw in some new faces who are looking to learn and build confidence.

I'll perfectly understand if experts don't participate in this one (and go for the Major instead), but I hope people will stop by and help out those that do go for it.

:D yay!!!!!!!!

i'm seasoned enough that settler is a cakewalk, but count me as absolutely thrilled about this one. my biggest worry in my looooong-term goal for worst quattromaster ever is the gauntlets (with enough patience i can get a cheesy diety win i bet). this one i know i can do. win, nah, but i don't care, i just want that checkbox.

thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!

ahh, this one is better (just posted G-major 9), at least i can easily win the game, let's see the competition... a backdoor diplo is a risk, you can hit domination.
the true competition is against other players.
I think BC are close to impossible, but let's see

Excellent! Now I'll finally manage to succeed in becoming the worse quattomaster of all time with a 2040ad win ;)

I'm sure winning entry will be BC, not mine though :), I'm going to aim at beating 1000AD.

I'm thrilled too!
I wanted a spacerace, but this will lead to the same:
tech as fast as possible!

I've learned enough for my exam today, so I'll try now.
I also don't believe in BC yet.

First entry - 1250AD finish :(

I won't get a BC finish but I do want to get a sub 500AD. I only predict that someone else will get a BC win :P

One stupid question:
Are we allowed to set for example "no barbarians" or other things that follow the rules of HoF but are not listed in the description?

One stupid question:
Are we allowed to set for example "no barbarians" or other things that follow the rules of HoF but are not listed in the description?

Yes, you can select "no barbarians" or "raging barbarians" or "always war" or any other selection that creates a valid HoF game.

As I understand it, the gauntlets are played under the HoF rules, and that includes options allowed/disallowed by those rules. :)

Oops. Ozbenno beat me to the punch. *pulls Ozbenno's beard*

Oops. Ozbenno beat me to the punch. *pulls Ozbenno's beard*

Hey! Leave the beard alone :lol:

Ozbenno and DeafDolphin are correct.

I've just finished my first try in 1070AD.
But now I think we'll see an 1AD-submission.

Oi. There's no way anyone can do it before 1AD. Just No Way! :lol:

That being said, my first attempt came up with 1556AD, score of 21500. I'm sure everyone else can beat that. :blush:

If I can beat my previous best Settler Diplo (1260 AD) I'll be happy.

Oi. There's no way anyone can do it before 1AD. Just No Way!

Why not? A Diplomatic, Setter win on a Duel map is 100BC, Tiny is 460BC and Small is 260BC. A BC finish will be done for Standard in this gauntlet.

Sigh, its Vanilla!! :( And the Warlords one is deity which I'm not up to yet.

I'll have to give it a thought if I'm willing to go down to Vanilla for this gauntlet.

Gosha, enjoy Epic Settler Diplomacy :D

OK! I'll attempt it! My best result is 1100AD, monarch, continents, normal speed, 1.52 vanilla... but it was reload tournament.

Well first attempt was 590AD, so beat my 1000AD target, now to see if I can do any better....

I gotta give this a try.

Never played epic before, never had settler standard diplomatic victory before 1500AD. Guess I still have to improve......

1688 AD first attempt as India, Archipelago. I dont think thats the optimal settings. :lol:

Hey, there's people damn fast to play outhere...
anyway we got a date to beat (590 AD) and it will not be so easy.

I've never really given diplomacy a real shot before so this will be interesting for me. My first try was a win at 890AD for 19701 points (only 6 cities). I could have probably cut that to around 500AD if I had a great engineer (or better two) to build the UN with. The pyramids didn't give me one, but that is my own fault for using scientists in that city. I'll remember that next time. I'm shooting for 400AD, but I'm really not sure I can beat what I just did. I had a great map, and an even better starting position as well as popping 2 settlers from huts in the first 3 or 4 turns. Good luck guys, and if anyone has any tips for a diplomacy beginner, I'd love to hear them. ;)

Oh, by the way... I didn't go to war at all and instead spread my religion to all but one of the AIs (only took about 4 or 5 missionaries). Is anyone getting their cities via war? It seems to me that on a standard size map at settler level that makes for a way-to-spread-out empire since the AI will still only have their capitals by the time our game is half way over... I was able to found 6 cities by the time I could have captured 2, though I'm not sure the cost-benefit of building settlers rather then building axemen. Also, does it significantly speed up the game to have more then 6 cities? It would be hard to run at anywhere near 100% research with more then 6, but if you are using SE then you could probably have 12-15 cities without an issue, and of course this means more great people... Any input would be appreciated.

Sigh, its Vanilla!! :( And the Warlords one is deity which I'm not up to yet.

I'll have to give it a thought if I'm willing to go down to Vanilla for this gauntlet.I missed that little detail... :arggh: .. for what its' worth I got to 1112AD with Saladin, who has a Library UB in Warlords.

There'll be a Warlords only Gauntlet in less than two weeks. ;)

@a space oddity: Oh, thats annoying! But look at it as a warmup, your next try will still benefit.

I've already been beaten, but thats no problem, cause I have some ideas left.
Next time I build fast pyramids and an engineer for UN for instance.

@uwsublime: You're right about settler, I destroyed three civs (the first with 3 warrior) but that was slower as a REX-strategy I suppose.
my ideas:
I'll try to get my capitol to max pop while building pyramids and then pump approx. 4 settler (8 cities for FP is my goal). I want to slow research and speed up the libraries and courthouses by universal suffrage. I have to capture/destroy other cities anyway to get some money and worker.

Why not? A Diplomatic, Setter win on a Duel map is 100BC, Tiny is 460BC and Small is 260BC. A BC finish will be done for Standard in this gauntlet.

... You're making me feel rather inferior, buddy. :p :lol:

Let's see *you* do a 1ad finish, then I'll believe it. :mischief: :lol:

I'm gonna give this one another chance. I made some major mistakes experimenting with a SE - I can likely shave at least 300 years off the date, I would imagine.

Looks like I got alot of work to do...my first effort was a pathetic 1628AD. Although I got boxed in a bit because I was trying not to go to war and displease anyone.

Managed 788AD on my second attempt... I think I'm starting to get the hang of this. I am not sure anyone will go BC since this is Epic and not Marathon... Those BC finishes on settler are marathon games. We shall see! 200-400AD definately possible.

Looks like I got alot of work to do...my first effort was a pathetic 1628AD. Although I got boxed in a bit because I was trying not to go to war and displease anyone.

I was using Peter on Vanilla, and once I got cossacks, I promptly eliminated Alexander and Saladin, who were honking me off big time with their arrogance and demands. It gave me the necessary population to win a diplo victory quite easily, as well as some resources and breathing room. You can't but help offend someone. Just grab some guns, axes, whips or what have you and knock off 2 or 3 of your nearest neighbors, and be nice to everyone else.

But then again, what do I know? :P

OK, one more suggestion from a lurker - war early, not late - you need strong research, and the more cottaged cities you get, the better. You don't need cossacks on settler for that, warriors or chariots should do.

OK, one more suggestion from a lurker - war early, not late - you need strong research, and the more cottaged cities you get, the better. You don't need cossacks on settler for that, warriors or chariots should do.

Good point. Like I said, what do I know? :p

Well another suggestion is to not war at all. In my 590AD game I was at peace the entire game and only had 4 cities. I could have voted for my opponent in the election and still won ;).

I stuffed up my tech popping order for GS and blew 5 turns (105 years I think) so I'll have another go and see if I can improve. I went Saladin first, might try Elizabeth next.

@ Ozbenno:

Hmm, I've never been able to pull off a diplomatic victory without some warfare. You must have been working overtime giving out beard samples! :lol: :p

How did you manage to keep the peace? Being a tech whore? Bribery? I get too irritated by demands and insults, even tho' it's a game.

I've thought about using Cyrus or Julius for the next try. Diplomacy by the sword/spear. ;) Being a warmonger at heart, I can't help but fight. :rolleyes:

How did you manage to keep the peace? Being a tech whore?

Give or trade away techs continually, never adopt a religion and choose your opponents carefully. If the AI make a demand of a tech do it, if they make a demand about another AI throw curses at the screen and think who you want to offend the least.

My military in my whole game was 2 warriors and 2 archers :lol:

Give or trade away techs continually, never adopt a religion and choose your opponents carefully. If the AI make a demand of a tech do it, if they make a demand about another AI throw curses at the screen and think who you want to offend the least.

My military in my whole game was 2 warriors and 2 archers :lol:

:lol: :eek:

In other words, act like a real life politician! :p

I just submitted my first attempt and just missed Ozbenno, with 650 ad. I didn't go to war either, but I did adopt a religion. I read someone else's strategy on something like this a long time ago and I used it. I used Catherine just for a scout, then when I popped a settler I scouted with it for a while too. A few lucky huts could really help out for the start.

Indeed. I played a second game (using the right version...) with Saladin and got 1265AD. :( I played too sloppy and did too much warring. I ended up gifting away cities for economy's sake and to make up for the -1 "you declared war on a friend" malus.

In my warlord game I did not war at all and popped two techs from huts early on, one of which was Metal Casting!

This might be a very dumb question, but I'm new to the HoF.

I was happy to see a low difficulty G-Minor for me to try and tackle but I was wondering what VANILLA means.

Oh and to whoever is trying to be the lowest rated Quattromaster you may have some incidental competition from me. My 1.8 on the Tempi Trophy might be hard to beat.

Thanks in advance!

This might be a very dumb question, but I'm new to the HoF.

I was happy to see a low difficulty G-Minor for me to try and tackle but I was wondering what VANILLA means.


Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the HoF! :band:

Vanilla = 1.61 of Civ 4, with 1.61.010 of the HoF Mod.

Glad to have you with us! :goodjob:

Minor for me to try and tackle but I was wondering what VANILLA means.

Vanilla is regular Civ4, as in not Warlords.

Welcome to CFC and HoF! :dance:

Edit: X-posted with DeafDolphin

Vanilla means regular civ 4. (not Warlords)

EDIT; Triple X-post!

Let's see *you* do a 1ad finish, then I'll believe it.
I'm still at 1100AD :lol: I can't see it being me doing the BC finish.

There's already 10 submissions accepted for this gauntlet and its a day old :eek:

There's already 10 submissions accepted for this gauntlet and its a day old :eek:

:woohoo: I'm number 10!

Is anyone else going to try this again and see if they can beat their finish date? I know I'm raring to tonight. I love this one. I'm not looking forward to trying the major with that difficulty level. :eek:

Is anyone else going to try this again and see if they can beat their finish date? I know I'm raring to tonight. I love this one. I'm not looking forward to trying the major with that difficulty level. :eek:

I'm going to try and win the major before I try this one again (have come close trying this on a non-gauntlet game) but I'm sure I can improve 200 years or so (and it only took roughly 2 hours to complete)

Yeah, it doesn't take long to do at all. I'm going to shoot for a goal of 1000AD, if not less. Just have to figure out whom to do it with. I was thinking of trying a financial civ this time, just for the research boost. I'm thinking Elizabeth would do nicely, with the Philo Trait.

Oh and to whoever is trying to be the lowest rated Quattromaster you may have some incidental competition from me. My 1.8 on the Tempi Trophy might be hard to beat.

welcome to CFC! and i have a 1.4 three places on my QM chart baybee :king:

here's a link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=203790&highlight=beeline) to the strict beeline for mass media if anybody is curious. i detoured from it some, used liberalism for radio, etc.

This might be a very dumb question, but I'm new to the HoF.

I was happy to see a low difficulty G-Minor for me to try and tackle but I was wondering what VANILLA means.

Oh and to whoever is trying to be the lowest rated Quattromaster you may have some incidental competition from me. My 1.8 on the Tempi Trophy might be hard to beat.

Thanks in advance!Hi RunAwayWojo. Welcome to the HOF Forum. [party] :band:

The whole "Vanilla" thing seems to be one of those colloquialisms not used everywhere. I guess the classic definition would be that Vanilla is the "plain" version like with Vanilla ice cream as opposed to say Chocolate or Strawberry. I guess if someone doesn't see Vanilla ice cream as "plain" then the whole thing doesn't work for them. ;)

Aren't you glad we don't try to calling Warlords "Chocolate"? Or would it be "Strawberry"? Oh lord, imagine that debate... :mischief:

BC finishes will happen. My first try came close and I made some poor choices and had some bad luck. I only had 4 cities. I only got 1 free settler. I played Frederick. I didn't have any gold, gems or even fur to boost research (and happiness) I'm going to correct all these things and try again. I'm not sure which leader is best. I think Philo trait is probably the best. I did Frederick because he gets a scout and I figured the most important thing is getting free settlers and workers.

I did Frederick because he gets a scout and I figured the most important thing is getting free settlers and workers.

i'm doing frederick atm, had pretty good luck with the scouts, i think 2 settlers, 2 workers but one at the far end of the map so his journey was long. i used your guide to pick my opponents, so far we're a big happy family. health is definitely an issue for me atm, must remember to whip those citizens! no BC finishes for me tho i'm sure.

we just submit the gauntlet like a normal game?

i'm doing frederick atm, had pretty good luck with the scouts, i think 2 settlers, 2 workers but one at the far end of the map so his journey was long. i used your guide to pick my opponents, so far we're a big happy family. health is definitely an issue for me atm, must remember to whip those citizens! no BC finishes for me tho i'm sure.

we just submit the gauntlet like a normal game?

Yes.

I'm going to try this again, with Tokugawa. :D

Well now I'm definately going to try this one again with Elizabeth.

@WastinTime - you going to let us know what the new mark is? :)

In the past, I've found that some people give up trying if they see a finish date that they don't think they can beat. But since you asked, mine was 110 AD.

My main goal is to beat my first time but its good to know how high the bar has been raised. A good game with some luck with hut popping and you never know...

How you all manage to research mass media so fast?

A BC finish will win. I've got several BC diplomatic wins on the Hall of Fame (I come up AAA on the HoF)
Some suggestions:
Run it out, coming up with 4 settlers and 4 workers out of the huts is easy, use your starting settler too.
Don't bother with war, the only cities I attack are empty, and only if I want the spot. You only need 3-5 cities.
Use GP and wonders for all of the heavy techs.
Have a Great Engineer on hand when it comes to make the UN. And it's good to have some forrests to chop.

With a Marathon setting 500-700 BC is possible, on epic it's hard to say:confused:

Dam, had a 1100AD (good for me) victory lined up but missed the vote by 2.

I've improved my date to 1328 AD, with Tokugawa.

Next I'll be trying with my favourite civ, Mali, since they are next for me to tick off in the League of Nations.

What Tech path is everyone using?... How are you guaranteeing an engineer? If I leave one city for just Pyramids and HG and don't use any scientists there it never creates GP fast enough to get an engineer out (unless I turn off scientists in other cities which totally slows my bulbing down)...

What map type are you using? I have been doing Great Plains for the food bonus tiles on the east side, but haven't had a whole lot of luck in my last dozen or so map generations. Are any other map types good for food?

Wastin' Time didn't even build Oxford. Is anyone else avoiding OU? Is it better to go with a CE/SE hybrid and less cities?

From my latest attempt, I've decided that a majority of techs are useless. For example, branching off to Music was a big waste of time. I'm beginning to think that most worker techs are needed, then beeline to CS, then to Electricty, research Liberalism to get free Radio, learn Mass Media, rush UN with GE and gold rushing asap. I've also been spreading 1 religion to most of the world, getting a vast majority of my rivals to convert. Then its just a matter of giving a couple of techs to get your pleased allies to declare war on othre religions, to make them friendly, and getting voted the winner.

On map, I've been thinking of trying Oasis, since from last memory it has tons of floodplains. But I prefer playing on Fractal, just because. :lol:

If you aren't getting radio/MM from Oracle/Lib then I think it makes sense to get the free artist from Music, otherwise it is a waste. I haven't even been researching CS. It is out of the beeline and doesn't help nearly as much under CE as under SE, and I'm using a CE for this one so far... My techs have been coming pretty fast but I'm still having issues ensuring an engineer and getting my necessary granary/library in each city... Also having some issues timing Education well so that I can get the Unis/Oxford up quickly (this might not be worth the time)... On my current best run I took out 2 civs with my initial warrior then when all of my building was done and I was just sitting around researching I built some Swordmen to take out a few capital cities thus ensuring I had enough population to vote myself to the win... Though I still had others vote for me due to all the techs I gave them, at least I didn't have to waste time spreading a religion. Is it safe to hold off on Oracle til Radio is your next tech? I've been using it around the Physics/Elec area due to being scared someone would build it... I'm not playing against Industrial civs. As far as Oasis goes, they are too unhealthy to be productive I think unless you only have a couple of them. Food resources are much better if they are plentiful.

I personally feel that CoL, CS is more beneficial than going through Theology.

You are probably right. I'm new to diplo. It's quite a few extra beakers, but I guess the +50% probably makes up for it... Though if you aren't using spiritual trait then you also lose some beakers from revolution to beaurocracy... Anyone do the math on this?

What Tech path is everyone using?

The only deviations from the beeline to Mass Media (as linked to by KMadCandy in earlier post) are Alphabet, Literature (GLibrary), Education (universities), Liberalism (take Radio)

How are you guaranteeing an engineer?

Running an engineer in all cities after Metal Casing and forges (and crossing my fingers), I usually pop 4-5 GPs after this and chances are you'll get GE, don't think you can guarantee GE though.

What map type are you using?

I'm using Pangea but I know WastinTime likes Inland Lake.

Wastin' Time didn't even build Oxford. Is anyone else avoiding OU? Is it better to go with a CE/SE hybrid and less cities?
I only had 4 cities, so no Oxford for me. I went SE with Saladin but might try CE with Elizabeth, with one GP farm.

So you are not going for CS/Beaurocracy either? What are you holding out the Oracle for? I've been experimenting with the Oasis map suggestion and am finding the combo of gems/oasis to be very nice with elizabeth's financial trait... I haven't had a lot of luck with resources on pangea and inland lakes.

I do go CS/Buruaeucracy (the beeline gives you choice of Theology or CS for Paper). CS for Oracle. I've been thinking about Education for Oracle but feel the extra turns in bureaucracy make CS still the best choice.

Wow. CS is pretty cheap to use oracle on, even with the extra turns it grants. Again, the math might prove you correct, I'm not sure. I've been using it for Sci Method/Physics area. I think we could even hold out for Elec or Radio or Mass Media and still beat the AI.

with five cities (two popped settlers and two built) I am down to 740ad only deviated from mass media path for alphabet and build no wonders (i.e. except for hanging gardens on the last turn :) ) I think thats it for me - I'll go on to having fun on the major :hammer2:

Hi this is my 1st Gauntlet and HOF game. I have some questions.

1. What is the current earliest finish date?

2. How do you make the submission?

3. Which files do you submit?

Thank you all.

Are pyramids, GLib, NEpic, HG all not worth building? I've been stacking Pyra/HG in one city for a shot at an engineer and stacking Glib/NE in other big science city... Are these not cost effective?

Hi this is my 1st Gauntlet and HOF game. I have some questions.

1. What is the current earliest finish date?

No one knows, except the person who holds the #1 spot. I can tell you that the slowest currently is 1688 AD, which is mine.

2. How do you make the submission?

You submit for the gauntlet the same you you submit any other HoF game. http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php?show=faq#faq2 is the part of the FAQ about submitting games.

3. Which files do you submit?

Thank you all.

You only need to submit your 4000BC save and your turn after winning save.

No one knows, except the person who holds the #1 spot. I can tell you that the slowest currently is 1688 AD, which is mine.



You submit for the gauntlet the same you you submit any other HoF game. http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php?show=faq#faq2 is the part of the FAQ about submitting games.



You only need to submit your 4000BC save and your turn after winning save.

Thank you. I really appreciate it :goodjob:

I think I'm starting to get the hang of diplomacy... I just submitted a 350AD finish. I had Mass Media in BC but it took me ~30 turns to build the UN, then I had to get voted in. I never went to war and I did pick a religion and never spread it, but dropped it just before the election. I founded only 4 cities, didn't do any wonders except Oracle and UN... I also forgot to switch to beaurocracy when I finished CS (yes I'm doing CS now) for probably 50+ turns... Finally I noticed. I am pretty certain I can do BC now. Time will tell!

Hi this is my 1st Gauntlet and HOF game.

welcome! make sure you read the rules and install the mod. and don't panic about the early finish dates being posted, any game that meets all the settings and obeys the rules counts as a gauntlet win for you :) it's a quick game, i've done it twice already and shaved off 700 years my 2nd try (going peaceful on inland seas rather than warring on continents to have a continent of my own).

i'm gonna keep trying it just to get some of the LoN boxes checked (and maybe some maps, inland seas was my first for that one). sometimes without a goal in mind i just stare at the screen wondering what kind of game to play. this gives me motivation hehe.

I founded only 4 cities, didn't do any wonders except Oracle and UN... I also forgot to switch to beaurocracy when I finished CS (yes I'm doing CS now) for probably 50+ turns... Finally I noticed. I am pretty certain I can do BC now. Time will tell!

i hate when i do that!!! makes me feel like such a bozo.

i've been building only pyramids (for rep and GE points) and UN. no GLib since i go for sci method so fast, no oxford since i build observatories before unis (i don't use caste so i want the extra GS slot). with a forge in the pyramids city i've been able to get a GE early. best game so far (710 AD which was a huge improvement for me) i got two GEs so UN was done the turn after MM, which the music artist helped with...gandhi gave me lit (i'd skipped it for no GLib) so i detoured for music knowing he'd help with MM if i researched drama and left him sleeping long enough.

i hadn't been buliding oracle, silly me. so used to losing out on it in the higher difficulty games i've been trying, that combined with the GA points made me think it wasn't worth it. on settler tho i bet i can delay it a looooong useful time.

got MC from a hut both times yeehaw!! i've been donating the prereqs for optics/compass to the AI hoping they'd research that for me, but noooooo, they have their own plans, the stinkers.

my latest (no war) game gandhi of all people was the most greedy asking for techs ... a total of THREE!!! i was generous tho.

I did not have a single GE in my 350AD finish, but I didn't build pyramids either... You should really use caste system, I was able to bulb Philo, Paper, Edu, Sci Method, Most of Physics, All but 2 turns of Elec, then I used Oracle for Radio and Lib for Mass Media. Also doing that you don't have to detour to music. I also did not research literature since I had no desire to build the library. And yeah, I often forget to switch my civics when the research comes in, but usually thats because I'm distracted playing at work. =)

I did not have a single GE in my 350AD finish, but I didn't build pyramids either... You should really use caste system, I was able to bulb Philo, Paper, Edu, Sci Method, Most of Physics, All but 2 turns of Elec, then I used Oracle for Radio and Lib for Mass Media. Also doing that you don't have to detour to music. I also did not research literature since I had no desire to build the library. And yeah, I often forget to switch my civics when the research comes in, but usually thats because I'm distracted playing at work. =)

thank you for the advice! i'm not used to lightbulbing that much, i only just started moving up to the higher levels where it's important. i play at work too, then again i'm a contractor who works at home and i pick my own hours ;)

Everyone started out with some nice strategies for playing higher difficultly levels. (building Universities, Oxford, maybe G.Lib. etc) Keep those in mind for the Major Gauntlet. But I didn't realize that Settler difficulty has tech costs that are less than half the cost on Diety. Seems like everyone has now moved on to lightbulbing the big techs. @uwsublime: Philo and Paper though? Seems like a waste to use a GS on those cheap techs. Save them for Astronomy maybe.

KMadCandy mentioned the forge--which allows you to run an Engineer. I had no problem guaranteeing a GE with the Pyramids/Forge combo in my game. (I ran Pacifism too)

The oracle can easily be saved for Radio and then you won't corrupt your Gene Pool with that Prophet.

yes it's VERY different being on the easiest level, so many strategies i'm used to don't apply. going to try the oracle on my next game, i can't believe i've been so silly to have not used it yet. i did meet my goal of beating 1000 AD tho (by almost 300 years)! as i mentioned earlier, WastinTime looking at your diety tips/games really helped with that, i chose my opponents and didn't war at all. you rock as far as sharing great ideas and not hoarding them to stay on top of the charts, many many thanks.

WastinTime - I had enough GS's to Lightbulb: Philo, Paper, Edu, Astro, Printing Press, Sci Method, Physics, and Electricity except for a couple of turns of research on physics. So I didn't waste them on cheap techs, I had plenty to go around. Of course had I gotten an engineer I would have been short a scientist on electricity, but I didn't... Also would have been short had I made and academy, but again I didn't. Does the academy pay off in this few turns? Probably depends how nice the city is...

already submitted a painful 1010.
Bismarck on pangea
i'll try with a philo leader, but the only one starting with a scout is Fred.

probably inner sea can be better?

i'll try with a philo leader, but the only one starting with a scout is Fred.


Peter is Philosophical and starts with a scout.

I still think Great Plains is the best... It is common to get a city site with 3-4 food resources near 2-3 more city sites with at least 2 food resources. This means your capital can run 5+ specialists (depending on happiness) and the other cities can run 3 or 4 apiece leading to about 9-10 Great People by 1AD.

I'm curious about something. When do you usually start running specialists? Size 4? 5?

On these Great Plains maps I start as soon as I have a library... I usually grow to size 3, whip a granary, grow to about size 4 while building/whipping library then I'll have 2 food resources worked and 2 scientists. This goes up as soon as I get caste system. I'm no expert, but that's how I've been doing it. I'm still not sure if I should bother building granaries prior to libraries (or at all), I'm only whipping 1-2 times in each city by which time I'm in pacifism...

Interesting way of doing it. Thanks for your answer.

My 1st attempt resulted in a 350 AD victory.

I got lucky right out of the gate when I popped a settler on my first goody hut. I popped another settler a couple goody huts later and never had to handbuild a single one. I stuck with three cities the whole game. I got real lucky with great engineers. I slowed a city down to make sure I got one engineer in my Pyramid city and when I sped the other city up to gain another scientist to finish off Electricity, I ended up popping a second engineer! The odd thing was, I had less than a 4% chance of doing it.

BTW, I used Elizabeth.

Well... Just discovered Mass Media in 205BC, but once again had no Engineer... Finish date of 230AD this time. Once again no wonders and only 4 cities, but the main difference is I used first scientist for an academy and researched philo/paper. Thanks for pointing out how cheap they are Wastin - since I got a much slower start in this game with only 1 settler from a hut instead of 3, I got 2 or 3 less great scientists and still beat my previous date. If I could get a good hut/settler start and pop a GE I think ~300-500BC is possible. Bed time for me! Hope to chat with you guys later... Few more goes at this one and I may try the Major, though anything other then conquest/domi on deity scares me...

370 BC
Liz. Great Plains. (my previous game was Pangea)

MassMedia in 590 BC I think.

I only had corn, so health was a problem. It makes a big difference what your target finish date is. I was aiming for 150 turns, but now I'm going to re-target 130 turns. I'm starting to think 2 GE is better than an extra GS.

I also skipped the Academy this time.

Some nice times coming out now and some interesting strategies, definately have some ammo for a better attempt.

[...] best game so far (710 AD which was a huge improvement for me) [...]Wow, you're a quick learner! :goodjob:

@WastinTime

How the bleeding heck are you getting mass media so early? I'm not even halfway there by then! *baffled*

370 BC [...]! :clap: +4char

Mh, you scare me folks.
I just submitted what I think was a fast 350AD-victory.
I played with Peter and got one settler from the first hut which I used to scout for other huts. I got 2 worker and AH, the rest was gold&maps.
I guess that is not the best you can get.

@WastinTime: I also decided for 2 GE, which I got pyramids&HG. One to save for UN and the other to get machinery. I hoped I can trade metal casting, which I delayed as long as possible, but the AI didn't. :(

I build 5 cities and made one GS-farm.
Also switched once to pacifism&bureacracy&castesystem&representation in 3turns anarchy.
You cannot count the AI to build a single useful tech for you after trading alphabet.

Did you attack someone? I din't but it would certainly help with a city and worker.

I thought about it more, and I think 1 GE is the way to go. I just need to save about 6 forests. My last game was mostly flood plains--so no forests.

@DeafDolphin: The last techs all go very fast because you use GS's, Liberalism, Oracle to get them almost free. Liberalism is really the last thing you research.

@Airny: Didn't attack anyone.

Also switched once to pacifism&bureacracy&castesystem&representation in 3turns anarchy.

At Epic speed, you get 1 turn Anarchy for each change, so there is no reason to wait and do them all at the same time. At other game speeds this is a useful trick.

Some finish dates I saw in this forum are so great! I hope I can get a finish before 1000 AD. Everything is quite new. I usually play prince/monarch at normal speed. My first try I got 1448 AD with Catherine in Great Plains. The second time I got the UN earlier but I wasn't elected, missed by 11 votes. The third try with Liz, Great Plains too, I got a 1280 AD victory. I delayed Oracle too long and I missed it :cry:. Besides that, I got two useless GP and I forgot about Liberarism. I can do better next time.

Well I improved to 470AD. Had no luck with popping huts compared to first game and didn't get a GE at all (smoke move on my behalf). So I'm sure improvements can be made.

I swear I saw someone put up a link for this but I can't find it.

What's the beeline to mass media? And by that I mean what's the path and a brief synopsis of shooting to it so fast.

I'm not hip to all of these strategies. I've never really tried any of the high (or even medium) difficulties. I think I submitted a diplomacy game that had a q-score of 0.0. I'm a legend. Any tips would be appreciated.

I think my problem is I play all of my games like a trip to the dentist. Long, slow, and painful.

Oh and thanks to everyone for welcoming me to the HoF, I look forward to posting some dissappointing games. If only I could quit my job.

I managed a 830AD, which is a pretty big improvement on my 1580AD. Was Liz, 3 cities, popped 2 settlers and 2 workers.

Well... Managed 110AD, but can't submit because when I was prebuilding the Oracle I accidentaly let it complete ahead of time and had to reload. Wanted to see where I would have finished. Getting closer to BC and way ahead of my goal already... Great time WastinTime! Doubt I'll get close to you.

I've been using Elizabeth but I've been thinking about it and I am not working many money tiles, mostly just working 2 or 3 food specials per city and the rest are specialists... I've had to turn off my research maybe 10-15 turns out of the 160 or so I'm playing to support 100% research the rest of the game... Maybe Mao Zedong's Org trait would be more useful? Anyone have experience with how much money it can save through the game? Would I be able to run an extra city or two without adding more cost? I have never really played Org. I also may go back to Saladin. I've been having 4 turns of anarchy prior to building the UN... Granted 1 of these comes VERY early when it doesn't cost much, but I'd imagine it's costing me somewhere around 300-500 beakers for these 4 turns. Any input on which of these 3 leaders is best for this would be appreciated... I know some of you like scouts, but with how many settlers/workers/scouts pop from huts I think the research bonus from one of these 3 is better.

I've been using Elizabeth but I've been thinking about it and I am not working many money tiles, mostly just working 2 or 3 food specials per city and the rest are specialists...

Maybe I should try that, my 830AD was with no specialists at all just money tiles with Liz.

I swear I saw someone put up a link for this but I can't find it.

Yeah, KMadCandy posted the link.

What's the beeline to mass media? And by that I mean what's the path and a brief synopsis of shooting to it so fast.

You can find it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=203790&highlight=beeline).

Drool, Just attempted a non-specialist run at this and hit 350AD with Mansa. Would have been 170AD but my 2nd (of 2) great people came out a scientist as it was only 50/50 with engineer... Oh well... I actually had really bad land as well, I think I can hit BC with running a CE or a SE either way.

welcome! make sure you read the rules and install the mod. and don't panic about the early finish dates being posted, any game that meets all the settings and obeys the rules counts as a gauntlet win for you :) it's a quick game, i've done it twice already and shaved off 700 years my 2nd try (going peaceful on inland seas rather than warring on continents to have a continent of my own).

i'm gonna keep trying it just to get some of the LoN boxes checked (and maybe some maps, inland seas was my first for that one). sometimes without a goal in mind i just stare at the screen wondering what kind of game to play. this gives me motivation hehe.

I have installed the mod and read the rules. I have also registered with the HOF.

What is CE and SE?
If I read right, we have three 350AD submissions now.
Would be interesting without wastintime :P

CE is Cottage Economy and SE is Specialist Economy... Basically generating your gold and beakers with either cottages or specialists... Hybrids are also possible (and handy). There are some great threads and articles on this site about it, but unfortunately I don't have a link handy...

I also recently looked at how few tiles actually get the financial bonus and decided Liz may not be the right choice. I'm doing Saladin next. Org trait worked nicely for me once on a space race (lots of cities) on a higher difficulty. Org on Settler difficulty will save you about 1 gold per turn average! Don't even think about it. You only get 50% off civic upkeep, not all maintenance costs.

If I read right, we have three 350AD submissions now.

It looks like one of you (or someone) bumped me out of 3rd place, as I am in 4th now. My score was 16, 422. What did you two get? I'm curious if there is someone else between WastinTime and the three of us.

Would be interesting without wastintime :P

I like having WastinTime and the other pros here, it makes my placement feel more real. If I got a high placement and the excellent players didn't participate, it wouldn't feel right.

My strat was based on 5cities. :P
I got 23352 points.

positions atm:
1st wastintime 370BC if he submits
2nd uwsublime 230AD
3rd jwm124 290AD
4th civfanatic with 350AD
5th civfanatic with 350AD

It looks like one of you (or someone) bumped me out of 3rd place, as I am in 4th now. My score was 16, 422. What did you two get? I'm curious if there is someone else between WastinTime and the three of us.


It's me, I submitted a 290 ad last nite for 2nd place.

Fredrick worked real well for me. I got 2 great engineers in a city with pyramids/hanging gardens, so UN only took 1 turn. Got pretty lucky with the huts - matematics, 4 settlers and a worker. Might have been better if one of those settlers was an extra worker. I skipped alphabet and literature which made it easier to get the GE's instead of all scientists from the Great Library city. I saved Oracle for physics, which helped avoid the GP too. I lucked out and my first great person was a scientist (only popped him and the 2 GE's) so I bulbed education. Scientist from physics went to electricity, then liberalism for radio. I doubt I'll improve on this one, I got really good luck with huts, but I'll try once or twice more before trying the major.

I actually didn't submit mine yet; I'm shooting for a better finish date. So someone else is in the #1 spot.

I actually didn't submit mine yet; I'm shooting for a better finish date. So someone else is in the #1 spot.

wowsa!

i've sent in 3 so far, even tho #3 was slower than #2 (which is #7 on the list atm and i screenshotted that since i know it'll drop to like 15 or lower by the end *giggle*). i still have many LoN and map boxes to fill out on my QM chart, and this game is quick, so ... they'll have a lot of games to check for me.

I guess I'm in #1 right now barring WT's submission. I submitted a 230AD finish. I'll beat it, I'm sure. Where do you go to view what position you are in? I've never done a Gauntlet before.

Oh never mind, I found it... Yeah, mine is posted in #1 right now.

if i click on the g-minor 15 table, it says "in progress" and has a list of empty boxes, but shows me my own game (and only my own game). so try that. it has 20 spaces on it atm and used to have less, so i think that the total is how many games have been accepted so far.

I'm really hoping for is that an occasional low-level Gauntlet will draw in some new faces who are looking to learn and build confidence.

That's me! I've been a longtime visitor around here, but for whatever reason, I've never bothered to register until recently. Go figure.

As for this Gauntlet, I actually succeeded! My first ever Diplomatic victory! Go me! Then I realized I had forgotten to turn the HoF mod ON, so it's not valid. :crazyeye: Oh well, at least I know I can do it, so I'll just have to try again when I get home from school. I know I'm not going to come close to having a decent ending date, but whatever, as long as I can meet the challenge, I'm happy!

That's me! I've been a longtime visitor around here, but for whatever reason, I've never bothered to register until recently. Go figure.

As for this Gauntlet, I actually succeeded! My first ever Diplomatic victory! Go me! Then I realized I had forgotten to turn the HoF mod ON, so it's not valid. :crazyeye: Oh well, at least I know I can do it, so I'll just have to try again when I get home from school. I know I'm not going to come close to having a decent ending date, but whatever, as long as I can meet the challenge, I'm happy!

:dance: Welcome to CFC - and the HOF :band:

I have been doing similiar things until I just set my game to automatically start the HOF-Mod - I hardly play any games without now ;)

As for this Gauntlet, I actually succeeded! My first ever Diplomatic victory! Go me! Then I realized I had forgotten to turn the HoF mod ON, so it's not valid. :crazyeye: Oh well, at least I know I can do it, so I'll just have to try again when I get home from school. I know I'm not going to come close to having a decent ending date, but whatever, as long as I can meet the challenge, I'm happy!

doh!! but yeah, you're like me, long as i win by diplo before 2050 AD, all is well. i'm happy to leave the top spots to the crazy maniacs... errrr... i mean the better players ;)

and welcome to the posting side of CFC!

1184AD ::greatly annoyed::

:(

Maybe I should uninstall this frickin' game.

Just finished my first diplomatic victory, ok so its only 1520 AD at least I made it. Now I can go back and see if I can improve that. I'm happy just finishing my first gauntlet.

Managed 170AD with Elizabeth with only 3 cities. Was up for vote at 70BC but missed by 3 votes... Missed again by 3 votes in 10BC, then missed a 3rd time by 2 votes in 50AD, and finally won in 170AD... I didn't bother killing anyone off early and the whole continent had different religions. I'll have to work on that slightly harder next time, but I know I can do BC for sure now. I think 4 cities would be optimal, and 520BC could be possible I think, but more realistically 370BC or so.

doh!! but yeah, you're like me, long as i win by diplo before 2050 AD, all is well. i'm happy to leave the top spots to the crazy maniacs... errrr... i mean the better players ;)

and welcome to the posting side of CFC!

Ty ty, feels nice to actually be involved, rather than just lurking in the shadows. Having realized that I'm snowed in, and can't possibly make it to class, I'm going to try this again...the RIGHT way!

Dang it. I just went back and reloaded my save and *didn't* change my civics in 100BC like I did in the first go around and I won the 70BC vote. I was trying to get the "You have wisely chosen your civics" bonus... Does that bonus come in when you choose their favorite civic or when you match what civics they are currently running? Also, how long does it take the bonus to show up? Sigh, had a BC win in my grasp...

1184AD ::greatly annoyed::

:(

Maybe I should uninstall this frickin' game.Hey, that date seems familiar! :lol: That's what I've got in today's try as well. Please don't uninstall, apparently you can make it to sixth spot in the QM list with skills like mine... :D

edit: @uwsublime: You get the bonus for their favourite civic, not the ones they actually run. And it takes quite a few turns for it to show up, I don't know exactly how many though.

I was trying to get the "You have wisely chosen your civics" bonus... Does that bonus come in when you choose their favorite civic or when you match what civics they are currently running? Also, how long does it take the bonus to show up? Sigh, had a BC win in my grasp...

I think you need to use the other civ's fav civic, and they also have to be using it too. I get mixed results w/ that one too. From the looks of the trade screens it seems like civs don't change to better civics much on settler.

Just finished my first diplomatic victory, ok so its only 1520 AD at least I made it. Now I can go back and see if I can improve that. I'm happy just finishing my first gauntlet.

Welcome to CFC! :band:

Unless I'm mistaken, this gauntlet has brought in several new players to CFC. Good job Superslug! :dance:

Dang it. I just went back and reloaded my save and *didn't* change my civics in 100BC like I did in the first go around and I won the 70BC vote. I was trying to get the "You have wisely chosen your civics" bonus... Does that bonus come in when you choose their favorite civic or when you match what civics they are currently running? Also, how long does it take the bonus to show up? Sigh, had a BC win in my grasp...

doh so close!

the info screen on the ummmmm exotic foreign advisor screen? whichever part of the HoF mod that is, shows their favorite civic, and what they're running. if they're not running it atm, then you running it does no good. i think the + modifier shows up instantly. i think in this particular setup, trying for an early date on settler, probably some of these guys never get the tech for their favorite civic?

one recent game i had +4 for choosing civics wisely with hatty for ages, for organized religion. the poor thing tho, she had NO religion!!! the dear sweet girl was wasting money on civic upkeep just because she's coded that way. she was a looong way away (GP map) but i got her a missionary as soon as i could out of pity (and out of greed, for my shrine).

weird. i keep getting beat on dates (which is fine by me) but i've never had any trouble with the actual votes on any of my 3 games. each time, everybody but my opponent voted for me. i may not be an expert on popping great people but i know diplomacy i guess *giggle*.

favorite civic bonus:
You and he need the favorite civic and I think civics you got from pyramids don't count, so also need to research it. Then you get 1-2 points bonus.
Tomorrow I'll try another run on this gauntlet.

Better with Saladin on Great Plains, 530 AD.
The key is Marble, and probably caste system... plus a bit of luck with the goody huts... i'm sure i can beat this.

I think that "no anarchy" is better than the financial trait (Elizabeth).

Edit (after WastinTime 143)
sure, i explain (my point of view, of course)
you need stone only for pyramids, but marble for Oracle, GL and Parthenon (in a great plains map you don't need GLH).

Pyramids can be built in the capital with CS, the other wonders are built in different cities.

Edit 2:
btw, Denniz have you improved that map Finder after my tests???

Marble? I won't even play if I don't have stone. Please explain.

AD1556! Ok, so I'm not winning any speed records...though it IS about 100 years earlier than my invalid attempt this afternoon...AND I did it right this time! At least...I think I did...

AD1556! Ok, so I'm not winning any speed records...though it IS about 100 years earlier than my invalid attempt this afternoon...AND I did it right this time! At least...I think I did...

yeehaw! it's all about doing better than you did before :)

if you check "my submissions" on the HoF page, it will say "not checked", "accepted", or "published" next to the game. there's probably another one for if it was checked but didn't pass inspection, i haven't seen that one. anyway, not to make any promises for the HoF staff, since i know it takes time and they don't always have time to check a zillion games a day ... that being said, all three of my submissions for this gauntlet have already been accepted. so check your page in 2 days or so and if it says "accepted" you're golden!

I think that "no anarchy" is better than the financial trait (Elizabeth).


How often do you switch civics and how many turns do you lose? I switch a total of twice, Caste System and Civil Service for a total of two lost turns. In my games Spiritual seems to be a waste.

yeehaw! it's all about doing better than you did before :)

if you check "my submissions" on the HoF page, it will say "not checked", "accepted", or "published" next to the game. there's probably another one for if it was checked but didn't pass inspection, i haven't seen that one. anyway, not to make any promises for the HoF staff, since i know it takes time and they don't always have time to check a zillion games a day ... that being said, all three of my submissions for this gauntlet have already been accepted. so check your page in 2 days or so and if it says "accepted" you're golden!

Yup, "not checked", I saw. :) I'm hoping it'll get checked (or rejected or whatever) fairly quickly, so I can try to submit a better game (or a valid one) before the deadline. I think I could do better if I tried...and as long as no one declares war on me for no reason whatsoever while I'm on the threshold of winning...

Welcome to CFC! :band:

Unless I'm mistaken, this gauntlet has brought in several new players to CFC. Good job Superslug! :dance:

Yup, I have been brought in ;)

The last G-Minor 12 was marathon time victory (too time-consuming) so when I saw this, I immediately jumped in :lol:

Thank you superslug! :goodjob:

Edit: Btw, how do you check other people's submissions?

Edit: Btw, how do you check other people's submissions?

you can't check gauntlet submissions other than your own until it's over. but some people post their finish times here so we know who seems to be ahead.

but, i did double-check since i was worried... turns out as long as i get any game accepted for the gauntlet, even if i end up in 512nd place for a 2049 AD finish time, i do get credit for finishing the gauntlet yeehaw!!! so as far as that goes how others do doesn't matter, it's a "win" for me. altho i do wish you all much luck and success and fantastic quick finishes (since i wanna be the worst quattromaster someday!).

How often do you switch civics and how many turns do you lose? I switch a total of twice, Caste System and Civil Service for a total of two lost turns. In my games Spiritual seems to be a waste.

I'm also currently favoring Saladin. Aren't you running Pacifism? or Representation? (with Pyramids), or Slavery? I even run Organized religion since Saladin switches for free. It's nice to get the extra hammers and the missionaries.

Normally on Epic speed I toss out the spiritual leaders, but this game is only 140 turns or so.

I haven't been building any wonders except Oracle and UN... Representation bonus is nice but I honestly don't think its worth the lost research time to build it... Unless you are chop rushing it I guess, but I've been burning my trees on granary/library/forge... I'm using a hybrid economy now so specialists are more heavily used to generate GPs then for the actual research. If I'm not working for a GP (the city can't possibly get one before game ends) then I switch them all back to working cottages... It's working well for me... Had a 70BC win with only 3 cities and this setup, and I think I can do ~300BC or so with a good start.

Representation bonus is nice but I honestly don't think its worth the lost research time to build it...
... I'm using a hybrid economy now so specialists are more heavily used to generate GPs then for the actual research. If I'm not working for a GP (the city can't possibly get one before game ends) then I switch them all back to working cottages... It's working well for me... Had a 70BC win with only 3 cities and this setup, and I think I can do ~300BC or so with a good start.

hmm. my thinking was that a scientist with rep is as better than a cottage beaker-wise at the start and almost better than a full town, given how long cottages take to grow on epic and how short we want the game to be. i've hardly been building any cottages, and haven't tried any financial leaders. i think i will next time!

W/o representation the scientist and the freshly built cottage are equal. The difference is that the cottage supports itself if built on grass and supports itself + half a specialist on a floodplain, while the scientist takes farms or food specials or floodplained cottages to support it. When you factor all of this with the time it takes to build pyramids and change civics (if not spiritual) etc, I just am not sure it is worth it in a game of only 130-200 turns. If you aren't currently busy building one of the *necessary* buildings for this gauntlet (granary, lib, possibly forge if you want to try for engineer) in a city then it can't hurt to build the pyramids there... Also if you have a huge tree surplus and plenty of workers it could be time effecient... I just like the flexibility of swapping between cottages and specialists depending on whether i need to grow or generate GPs, and spending time going for pyramids pretty much locks me into an SE since I wouldn't have had time to build and work the cottages with all of my workers chopping the pyras. I have submitted sub 350AD games in this gauntlet for all 3 - strictly SE (didn't even build a cottage), strictly CE (only used specialists to generate 2 GP, 1 for academy and 1 for rushing UN), and hybrid, so any of the 3 can work here, but I am finding the hybrid to be my preference. There is no flaw in your thinking, and your method will work for sure if you keep trying and practicing.

uwsublime,what map you using? ive been using oasis as it seems to have alot of flood plains for CE.

Also if you have a huge tree surplus and plenty of workers it could be time effecient... I just like the flexibility of swapping between cottages and specialists depending on whether i need to grow or generate GPs, and spending time going for pyramids pretty much locks me into an SE since I wouldn't have had time to build and work the cottages with all of my workers chopping the pyras.

yeah both my best games so far i had a nice hilly/forest city that could do the mids pretty quick with a couple of workers. that city's whole purpose in life was to build the mids and a forge and never run a scientist until it popped a GE *giggle*. my best game, it made me missionaries after the mids for a long time, just to make everyone a big happy family. on my fastest finish it actually popped a second GE with perfect timing. my other city placements were thoughts of 'food food' with the occasional 'oh yay a river!'

i'm having fun tho, learning a lot, and am still trying.

Drool: I'm using Great Plains... You want to make sure you are on the green grassy area on the east side of the map before you even start playing. If you get dropped over there then scout about a bit and pop some huts... On a lucky draw you'll get a couple rivers running through and 3 or 4 city sites with 2-3 food resources each. I don't even care about hills and such as I don't ever use them. My granaries/libraries/forges (the only things I build) are popped or chopped, and I can keep working commerce tiles / specialists the whole game.



KMad: That is a good way to guarantee a GE, but I think you have to have every city's focus be on research in this one to get the best time - unless you go with a completely different strategy then everyone has been using so far and try to build a large empire, then specialize your cities. This could work, but with maintenance costs and such I don't think 150 turns or so is enough to build an economy to support a large empire... I'm not saying building the pyramids is a bad strat - looks like WastinTime is building them and he is slaughtering my times, but you probably have to fit the build around your research plan rather then fitting in your research around the pyramid build... Forest chopping seems the best way to do this with minimal interuption in research. I am not sure I could fit it in and still build the granary/library/forge in a city, but now that I think about it, the research the pyramids add to the other 2 or 3 cities might outweigh the research I gain by having a granary/library (granary effects research indirectly by letting you work more tiles faster)... I may have to give the pyramids one more shot...

What specialists do you tend to use. Do you go all out on scientists to boost research?

As soon as I get a library I put 2 specialists up in my capital in order to get my academy up ASAP... After I have that I might tone it back down a bit to grow the city faster, but the first GP is fast anyway. Then I am usually running 1-2 scientists in each city til I get a forge by which time I usually have popped 1 or 2 more scientists already... Then I go with 1 engineer and as many scientists as I can support while still growing. Somewhere around 2/3rd to 3/4th through the game you have to analize each city's GP rate and decide if they'll even create another prior to you winning... If not it, it may be best to switch them back to CE - whatever is max science output. You also might want to intentionally slow one or more cities down a bit to encourage the popping of one GE. I've been aiming at 5 GS and 1 GE per game in my hybrid economy games. This allows me to build an academy, research sci method to about 95%, research physics (2 GS) - which pops another GS, then reserach 90% of elec with the last 2. I then use the GE and 6 forest chops (approx) to build UN. I can easily pop 6 GPs out of 3-4 cities while maintaining a mostly cottage economy. If you want to go full SE, then you'll probably stack as many scientists as your food can support in all but the city you are trying to get a GE from.

Just submitted 230AD with my last strategy brought to perfection I think.
I'll stay with Peter for his cheap granaries, the health-bonus and scouts.
My 2 GS-farms can grow in no-time that way.

I used Inland Sea, but I'll try great plains now that I've read about its value from uwsublime.

Btw: I always popped exactly one settler from huts in my games, very strange.

Just submitted a 1010AD using only cottages pretty much with Liz. Could have saved myself maybe another 200 years if I didn't accidently let the oracle get built. Was a close game, needed and got 93 votes.

People like Airny, uwsublime and other 'pros' what is the secret for getting such an early finish. I've read all your guys posts and I do what you say, but I still can't get nearer BC than before.

Keep in mind the best I've done is 1140AD, and that was after 2 failed votes.

Some observations:

1) You need to have one heck of a good starting location, at least 2 food, some grasslands and plenty of forests for chopping. Forget hills, they're worthless with this one. Production is near useless when you need research.

2) You gotta somehow get a scout early as possible (or start with one), and select opponents who do not have scouts. This will ensure the maximum number of huts popped.

3) You gotta have some really good luck to get workers early. Without the early workers to put cottages up, there's no way you're going to get anyplace.

4) Technology beeline - I haven't worked out the right sequence yet, and you've got to be incredibly lucky to pop the right techs at the right time. So far, I'm beelining something like this:

Pottery
Writing --> Alphabet
CS Slingshot to get Bureaucracy
Beeline to Liberalism
Beeline to Mass Media

I'm using a great plains map, starting in the upper right corner. The biggest killer for me has been happiness. I usually use Peter because he has a scout, and that expansive really helps with population (which is needed for specialists). (I'd be happy to use Elizabeth, but she has the ultra-slow warrior, so that's useless for moving fast to pop huts.)

If anyone has a better idea, feel free to kick it out. I'm done with this after 25 plus attempts. Once I hit 1000AD and I don't have MM, I call it quits.

Settler ain't all it's cracked up to be. Luck plays too much of a role in this game, and I'm lousy with that. I tried with BW right after Pottery, but it hasn't seemed to make any difference as far as whipping workers and the 3 essential buildings (Granaries, Libraries, Forges).

Marble? I won't even play if I don't have stone. Please explain.

Does that really make so big dif (for oxford or do you hit pyramids too)? Ox was 600h so it makes that just 300, which saves 15+ rounds or so. Well pyramids wo stone is waste of time anyway. And is this true for harder diffs too. Its really boring to respawn maps untill it gives at least happines and food (well on major G) but stone too puuh... Ill try to hit this one after I finish major, if I can pull it out this time.

-Dracandross

I just got 490 BC. Saladin.

I missed finishing in 550 BC by 1 turn, so I think I can shave off 5 turns and get 610 BC, then stop playing this gauntlet.

I finished my research in 640 BC but then took 2 turns to build the UN. Grrr. I mis-calculated my forests and the GE. I thought a GE was 960 or 990 hammers, but I only got 900.

This was an odd game. I normally count on my capitol w/bureaucracy and cottages for research, but my capitol was only size 5. It had a ton of forests, so I chopped the forge/Pyramids there as well as the UN. It produced the GE first and then no more.

I've been playing Great Plains, but never on the east side, always the west. Usually the south-west. It has corn on a flood plains normally. Of course this game I had zero corn and a major health problem. Happiness is not a problem on the west side.

I had a dozen or so attempts that I abandoned because I couldn't get enough free settlers in the first 20 turns or so. Way back on my earlier attempt (370 BC) when I was still experimenting with strategies, I got 3 settlers and 4 workers. Little did I know then that its about the most perfect group I'd ever get. I figured that was going to happen every time. I was very frustrated to find that it doesn't. So instead of using the map generator to find a great start I just kept trying any stone start. This 490 BC game got 4 settlers and only 2 workers. Not bad. All my 5th city did was hook up stone and build a couple workers. It was size 3 by the end and never produced a GP.

The other 3 cities produced 5 GS's. I think I could get one more with some corn.

I have played first time yesterday: 230AD. I watched soccer on TV and in parallel played. So there was a lot of inaccuraces in my game. I failed 1-st votes, got 3GI, built only 2 cities (including capital) and so on...

WastinTime
Your resalt is very close to theoretical limit on my mind. Well done!

Drool: WastinTime is the true expert, but here's what you'll need to do to go sub 400AD:

First key is the huts - You MUST get at least 2 settlers and a worker before 3400BC out of these huts. My best start (not best finish, was still tuning strat) I had 3 settlers from huts + the starting settler, and 3 workers from huts. All of those settlers founded cities by 3300BC.

Second key - tech route... Sounds like you are wasting oracle and liberalism... You want to beeline to alphabet through pottery and writing then trade for all of the other early techs you can. Then beeline to CS through COL (DO NOT use the oracle here). Once I have CS I do philosophy. After philosopy you can either get metal casing, or if you were lucky and hutted it, you can go straigh to education. Note - you still aren't using oracle or your GSes yet. After education click on astronomy and let the game pick your route. You need to keep trading up through astronomy, sometimes the AI gets these earlier techs for you. After astonomy, click on electricity and again let the game pick for you. You will want to lightbulb Scientific Method with 1 GS, Physics with 2 GS, and Elec with 2 GS. That really should use up your GSes that remain from the 1 and only academy you built with your first GS. AS SOON as you have electricity, let the oracle complete - the same turn if possible... Pick radio. Then research liberalism and take MMedia.

third key - Get 1 GE and prechop 6-7 forests for the city that is building UN. chop these forests for 3 turns then mark them with a sign or something (alt-s) so that the turn you start the UN you can put a worker on them and chop once for the cut. This will get you UN the very turn you start it.

fourth key - economy... This one is tricky. You are going to want to go mostly SE probably to get more GPs, but CE works for pre 400AD as well. WT managed MUCH earlier with SE, and you won't get enough GPs by that date w/o going primarily SE.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions...

EDITTED: Changed dates after looking at logs... Huts aren't quite as fast as I remembered.

I finished my research in 640 BC but then took 2 turns to build the UN. Grrr. I mis-calculated my forests and the GE. I thought a GE was 960 or 990 hammers, but I only got 900.

how many hammers the GE contributes depends on the size of the city. then again if you were depending on the forests at that city you might not have had an option to send him to a bigger city.

holy cow. i just submitted a 110 AD. you guys do not understand, i am permanoob! but i went from 1304 AD to 710 AD to 830 AD (yeah, :smoke: moves) to 590 to 110. i got MM in 10 BC and just about fell out of my chair. now i'm gonna go dance around and bounce off the walls and sing "happy happy joy joy". it's not a top finisher but OMG i surprised myself and cannot get over it.

sorry to look like bragging. of course most of my improvements were from things i read here. i'll be back once my jaw is off the floor *giggle*.

That is great KMad! Congrats. The best I have submitted is 170AD, as the one I finished in BC was the same game restarted at the point I built the UN... I think you are in 2nd place now.

holy cow. i just submitted a 110 AD. [...]Like I said before: great learner... ;) Congrats! :thumbsup:

I'm still stuck at 1000AD-ish, probably because I can't seem to quit a game that not delivers the right huts. :rolleyes:

it's shown as #3 atm. it was accepted and put on the list less than 4 hours after i submitted it, yay for the hardworking HoF staff!

that's part of why i posted, aso, to encourage you to keep trying. i am SOOO a noob. i've never even tried an emperor game, never won prince except by cultural victory (those i'm best at). also, remember my bias, i'm gunning for worst quattromaster in the future, so it's in my best interest to not place in the top 10! i did take a screenshot of it in #3 while it lasts tho :mischief:

it's so fun to see the different approaches. i was Fred (went almost entirely SE, which i'm not familiar with in real games yet) on GP (had to regen literally 50+ times to get on the east and not in the jungle!) and had my best hut pops ever ... altho 2 of the free workers were way over in dye-ville forest mountain region so they took centuries to hike back and make themselves useful *giggle*.

i am having way too much fun with this gauntlet, and with reading the thread!

that's part of why i posted, aso, to encourage you to keep trying. i am SOOO a noob. i've never even tried an emperor game, never won prince except by cultural victory (those i'm best at).
Well, if you've shaved a thousand years off your minor, maybe just maybe you've got what it takes to have a crack at the major. ;)

Well, if you've shaved a thousand years off your minor, maybe just maybe you've got what it takes to have a crack at the major. ;)

there's a word in the description of that major that petrifies me. diety. gives me nightmares. ain't gonna happen *giggle*.

ps you guys totally do rock for checking games so darn fast!

OK, so I've got a game with 1 settler and 3 workers from huts, and had all the AI in friendly mode, the right amount of GS but I got a lousy GP (even when I built the Oracle late) instead of the GE that was lined up. My cities were useless hammerwise... learned MM in 290AD, built the UN in 1106AD... :cringe: ... won the first vote = 1160AD.

Hmmm... I build the Oracle about 5 turns before I build the UN, so if I don't already have my Engineer, I won't have one. Also, you need to have enough trees around one of your cities to chop about 1/3rd of the UN. 3 Workers is nice, but you can't afford to build 2-3 settlers and still place high in this gauntlet.

You're probably right, I should stop an attempt a soon as something doesn't go according to plan. I'm finding that hard to do... :)

Just tried Great Plains instead of Inland Sea and tried to get more than one settler (got 3 from huts this time). Doing that and making mistakes (forgot to prebuild oracle for Radio for example), I made it in 50AD.
Anyway for 400AD there's still a long way to go.

This time I used what you call "SE": No cottages, only farms.
As you said, cottages grow too slow in such a short game.
If you use them with a financial civ, it could be worth a try.

You're probably right, I should stop an attempt a soon as something doesn't go according to plan. I'm finding that hard to do... :)
At this difficulty level, if I don't pop a Settler from a hut in 4000bc, I regenerate.

My only exception is if I'm playing India on Huge. I'll settle for a 3 movement worker just for all the extra huts I can pop.

OK, so I've got a game with 1 settler and 3 workers from huts, and had all the AI in friendly mode, the right amount of GS but I got a lousy GP (even when I built the Oracle late) instead of the GE that was lined up. My cities were useless hammerwise... learned MM in 290AD, built the UN in 1106AD... :cringe: ... won the first vote = 1160AD.

:ar15: :religion: gah!!!

on all my great plains maps i've gotten at least a couple cities with lots of yummy forests (after regen'g of course). this game, there were times i had nothing to build in some cities (observatories wouldn't have finished before the vote), and setting them to research was pointless (my final research push was 2 GS to physics, 2 GS to electricity, pre-built and stopped at 1-turn-to-go oracle to radio, 4ish turns of research to liberalism for MM). so, i made some spare workers and had them pre-chop forests outside the BFC of my biggest pop town (biggest pop since GEs give hammers based on population). then i'd stop before the chop was done and road the tile. that way, when i learned MM i could pop the GE and then do 1-turn chops, move on the road, 1-turn chop next turn, get it done fast. they're not in the fat cross so they're not worth as much but if they're done in 1 turn, they can take the build from 8 turns left after the GE to 1-3 depending how many workers you put on the final chop patrol.

this game it turned out i spawned another GP after i'd quit watching the specialists. with something like a 7% chance due to the governor putting someone on the forge rather than science some turns, he was a GE. so i never needed those forests. it's an idea tho.

i always make sure to get my GE really early. one city's only goal is to get my GE. i start chopping the pyramids (i've never had stone), inserting a forge when i get metalcasting. then i have that city make an aqueduct so it can make hanging gardens. since those are the only ways to get pure GE points, i slow ALL other cities down after like the 2nd GS so that the GE city will be the next one to hit the magic number. i just don't like trusting chance by bumping up the GPP in that city with non-engineers, this seems to me to be the only way to guarantee one. if you wait too long tho, the mids city won't ever catch up with the GPP the "real" cities are pumping out. i'm sure not everybody does it that way, but for me it's guaranteed a GE every single time. then that city just does whatever for the rest of the game, and i monitor it to be sure it won't kick out any more GPs, it's only purpose in life is to get me a guaranteed GE. well and to get me representation from the mids <3.

ps you guys totally do rock for checking games so darn fast!

I assume they have a program running on the server, that checks the new submissions regularly.

how many hammers the GE contributes depends on the size of the city. then again if you were depending on the forests at that city you might not have had an option to send him to a bigger city.

Thanks. I did not know that. Anyone know the formula off-hand?

I like to chop in the capitol because I'm running Bureaucracy. It's usually 10-15 in size, but like I said, strange game, it was only 5 population. I only had 2 flood plains for food and only 2 grassland. I worked my Gold and Silver so the city could not grow. Once I popped the 4 settlers I had to continue the game no matter how bad the map was.

Thanks. I did not know that. Anyone know the formula off-hand?

i found this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5088227&highlight=hammers+population+GE#post5088227) on a search but of course wouldn't know whether it's true or not even if i had slept last night.

The formula makes sense. 500 + 20 * P
Or on Epic speed: 750 + 30 * P where P is population.
So my size 5 city did 900. size 10 would do 1050, and size 15 : 1200.
Very nice to know. Now I will make sure my UN city has food. That saves me 2-3 forests.

I assume they have a program running on the server, that checks the new submissions regularly.
We do have a server based utility that gives us several dozen pages of data for each game that we go through, but a human staff member still has to make the decision and hit the accept button. On the plus side, the information is presented in an easy to read format, and after 5000+ games in IV alone, we've gotten quick about it just by habit.

Wow, thanks for the explanation!
This is quite much work for the hundreds of games per month.

Well, I made BC officially finally... Decided to go ahead and chop pyramids, but I only used 1 worker to do so so it still took forever... Built them very late, but it still helped. 190BC was my finish date. This game had ALL KINDS of problems and still made it at that date. Firstly, I did pop 3 settlers from huts, but they were each about 500 years apart... Didn't get my 4th city up til after 2000BC. Also only popped 1 worker from a hut, had to build the rest. Next, I didn't have a good production city (i never prioritize mining for this gauntlet), and I didn't have stone, so the pyramids were really slow... The other major problem was my first 2 GPs were scientists so I had to basically halt my research for about 15-20 turns on my 3rd GP to pop an engineer in the pyramid city. I managed to get all of the following:

PPress, Optics, Astro, Sci Method, Physics, Elec, Liberalism, Radio, MM, Oracle, and UN...

in the span of 11 turns, but had I not had to halt my research (and GSci) production for so long, I could have crammed all of that into 1 or 2 turns. Saving those 15 or so turns of research and the 10 turns at the end due to earlier great people, I can definately see 450-650BC being possible (even for me). Heck, earlier pyramids might get this number past 700BC... But I'm not sure I'm going to try again since it would take a lot of luck on the huts and the map, and I'm very happy with a BC finish.

Congratulations KMadCandy! :clap:

I was really looking forward to giving this another attempt, but I'm not sure I'm going to have time. I'll be gone the whole weekend. Hopefully early part of next week I can play at least once more.

Good job everyone!

I finally had settlers from the huts, in fact 2 too many! :eek: :lol:

and the required engineer...

so...

470AD

Saladin, center-east on a plains map, a combination of cows, floodplains and trees. :goodjob:

edit: Oh and I know I can do better because I forgot to use the Oracle for MM. I had the city having it ready to have it next turn running research, and I just plain forgot to use it...! :ack:

I have a question about popping huts. Saladin doesn't start with a scout - so how do you increase your odds for popping a settler? Do you get better odds if you pop the hut with a settler before you found your city? Also, does popping huts with a worker/settler produce better odds than a warrior? Thanks!

Yep, the trick is to use the settler or worker as a scout, they do produce better goods. Can only be done without risk when playing without barbs on low difficulties. In the last game I popped three scouts in addition to the four settlers, the worker and two cheap techs.

holy cow. i just submitted a 110 AD.

Congrats. Good work. :goodjob:

edit: Oh and I know I can do better because I forgot to use the Oracle for MM. I had the city having it ready to have it next turn running research, and I just plain forgot to use it...! :ack:Went back to the earliest autosave (185AD) used the Oracle pre-build for the last bit of MM, under that constellation I got an extra Engineer to complete the UN 10 turns earlier and won the vote in 350AD... :cry: ;)

so...

470AD

woohoo! look how many years you cut off there! my best prior to my latest was 710 AD, so you're better and can certainly contribute to my being ranked the worst QM ever by beating my date before it's over :goodjob:

190BC was my finish date.

awesome!! grats!

(i never prioritize mining for this gauntlet), and I didn't have stone, so the pyramids were really slow... The other major problem was my first 2 GPs were scientists so I had to basically halt my research for about 15-20 turns on my 3rd GP to pop an engineer in the pyramid city.

oh, i've always started with mining i think. i've gotten metalcasting from a hut in two games, which is HUUUUGE!, but not in my best one. yeah i get my engineer that way as you know. never tried without that so i don't know if it would improve my final time but my gut feeling is it wouldn't just cuz my cities are so not good for production by the end that the building of the thing would take hundreds of years.

awesome job!

Went back to the earliest autosave (185AD) used the Oracle pre-build for the last bit of MM, under that constellation I got an extra Engineer to complete the UN 10 turns earlier and won the vote in 350AD... :cry: ;)

doh! at least you know you can do it tho.

i've always been nervous to load an autosave or the final save again to check things until the game has been officially accepted, wondering if that'll make it look suspicious during the checking. once it's over and the final "one more turn" victory is preserved, it is safe to go back and test 'what if i'd done X' things? or maybe it is a bit of a risk if they do come back to you with questions, but you were sure yours would be accepted that you weren't concerned? i'm totally new to all this so i worry about each one. even that one, altho i played it in one session so now that i think about it (after finally sleeping), it probably looks the least suspicious of any of my games. "one more turn" too late at night kills brain cells.

oh, i've always started with mining i think. i've gotten metalcasting from a hut in two games, which is HUUUUGE!, but not in my best one. yeah i get my engineer that way as you know. never tried without that so i don't know if it would improve my final time but my gut feeling is it wouldn't just cuz my cities are so not good for production by the end that the building of the thing would take hundreds of years.

I don't *Produce* anything except a couple workers... Everything else is chopped, popped, or GE'd... So I never mine anything unless I have nothing else for the workers to do... Mining is useful as a backup in case I don't get a GE, but its never a priority.

i've always been nervous to load an autosave or the final save again to check things until the game has been officially accepted, wondering if that'll make it look suspicious during the checking. once it's over and the final "one more turn" victory is preserved, it is safe to go back and test 'what if i'd done X' things? or maybe it is a bit of a risk if they do come back to you with questions, but you were sure yours would be accepted that you weren't concerned? i'm totally new to all this so i worry about each one. even that one, altho i played it in one session so now that i think about it (after finally sleeping), it probably looks the least suspicious of any of my games. "one more turn" too late at night kills brain cells.

Once you've finished your initial run and submitted that game, you can go back and do whatever you want with the saves from it. You just won't be able to submit any of them again, or a new one played off of any of the previous saves. It's good to go back and find out how things would change if played differently... Great learning tool. Just make sure this is done after you've completed the first run through if you plan on submitting to the HoF.

What a fun gauntlet! I hope you all come over to the Deity Major too. It's not as hard as you think. The biggest problem might be winning before they launch a spaceship. I've really enjoyed how different the strategies have to be. For example, on Diety, the specialist approach is not nearly as powerful. You can't use 2 GS's for Physics. It would probably take 5. You need a better economy. Like what uwsublime said...beeline to Alphabet and get an Academy fast. This works well on Diety, but I'm not sure the academy is worth it on this gauntlet though. You'd really have to beef up the capitol. Can it really make more beakers than lightbulbing if you're stopping reasearch around 600BC ? How long is it up and running...about 60 turns?

Mining is useful as a backup in case I don't get a GE, but its never a priority.

Once you've finished your initial run and submitted that game, you can go back and do whatever you want with the saves from it ... Just make sure this is done after you've completed the first run through if you plan on submitting to the HoF.

oops! yeah production in my cities is so pathetic compared to normal games, it's not even worth setting a city to "research", particularly with the vanilla bug of forges not applying. i meant i literally start out with mining as the leaders i've played, so i haven't had to choose when to research it. i read your "Mining is useful as a backup in case I don't get a GE, but its never a priority." as meaning you put off researching it. altho of course that would make no sense, since you need it for BW and i think for masonry. silly me.

thanks for verifying that it's safe to do "what-ifs" for my own entertainment/education after finishing the official one. i am so paranoid. i bet it's because i really used to reload a TON before using the mod. so i made a HUGE change and am proud of it, and i have this 'man if they think i cheated when i didn't, i'm so gonna cry!'

What a fun gauntlet! I hope you all come over to the Deity Major too. It's not as hard as you think. ... I've really enjoyed how different the strategies have to be. ... I'm not sure the academy is worth it on this gauntlet though. You'd really have to beef up the capitol. Can it really make more beakers than lightbulbing if you're stopping reasearch around 600BC ? How long is it up and running...about 60 turns?

it could be 1/100th as hard as i think and still be impossible for me :p i've made an academy in all my minor attempts except the 830 AD one. one very noticable difference between your skill level and mine is how you're so good at taking the "big picture" view and aiming for a specific number of turns. i just wanted to beat 500 AD and never did bother to even find out how many turns that is. i'm just not there yet in my thinking. maybe someday!

WT: Your questions about the academy were the same questions I had about the pyramids, because I find it harder to get the pyramids up early then the academy, and the pyramids also give a 50% bonus for *most* of your research if running SE. I calculated the pyramids to very generously equal 3000-5000 beakers, so as long as they don't pollute my GP pool to give 2 more GEs then I wanted, they should be worth it... But, that's assuming building them around 2000BC, I usually go much later. As far as the academy goes - I've been lightbulbing everything Astro and beyond, so it would only have to make up for PPress which is what? 2000ish research? I usually get my first GSci prior to 2000BC, which leaves me around 60-70 turns. If you figure an average of 4 Scientist specialists in the capital after 2000 BC, that is +18/turn from that alone which comes out to about 1230 beakers... So the bonus on your commerce research in the capital would have to make up about 800 more beakers. I'm not 100% sure its worth it, but it also helps to get beaurocracy and pacifism sooner if you are able to pop the academy before those... The cumulative effect could be worth it. I may skip it next time (if I play again) and use the extra GSci for PPress.

WT: Looking at my logs from my 190BC game, I had the Academy up for 83 turns of researching. I'm pretty sure it paid for itself... Now, had I cut off an extra 30 turns with more optimal play, I am not so sure... I guess it depends if that optimal play helped me get the GSci even earlier, or produce even higher levels of base beakers in the capital city for the turns afterwards... I don't think its a decision that will cost or gain you more then 3-4 turns either way, and it could very well be dependent on the makeup of your capital city.

I wanted to try the Major, but there is simply *NO* strategy discussion going on in that thread. I really don't know how to even begin a diplomatic game on deity... The only deity games I've managed to survive is when I war early to build a research base capable of keeping up. If I war early, I'll have to finish my opponents off in order to keep relations good, and it will also cost me valuable time that I could be aiming for the goal... But being that it is deity, that time may make up for itself with a stronger base of cities provided by warring... Would love to see some strat posts in the other thread, or even some helpful tips here before I give it a shot...

Would love to see some strat posts in the other thread, or even some helpful tips here before I give it a shot...

I did a writeup of my 6 HOF Diplo Diety games on the various size maps. I'm interested to see if someone can pull off a "regular" game where you set up a few cities or conquer a few. If you read the writeup, the secret to all my games was OCC. It's easy, you don't have to worry about the land grab and it's not too hard to keep peace when you get to pick your opponents. Seems counter-intuitive, you only get about 10-15 votes, but still can win a true diplomatic victory.

WT: i was in the middle of re-reading your writeups when i saw this new post. i'm going to try a diplo OCC, altho i certainly won't try diety as my first OCC of any kind ever!! but it seems OCC games are a lot quicker than normal, and should be quite easy to micromanage. i infinitely prefer diplo wins where i need other votes and don't have enough myself, it feels so anticlimatic just to vote myself in to get the game done quicker. OCC is certainly the ultimate version of that.

uwsublime: yeah the major thread is boring as heck! seems we settlers are having way more fun, altho the fact that our games are so quick probably is a major factor.

WT: Your questions about the academy were the same questions I had about the pyramids, because I find it harder to get the pyramids up early then the academy, and the pyramids also give a 50% bonus for *most* of your research...

Pyramids:
Actually, in a specialist economy, cities get about 80-90% research boost from pyramids. And that's all cities, not just one for 50%.

I don't see the pyramids as being such a painful investment. In my last game, I built the pyramids in 3 turns with only 5 forests in the capitol. I have Stone of course. A forge, Math, and Bureaucracy. And since I'm Saladin, I turn on Organized Religion. That's 50% for math and 200% on top of that. I think 1 forest is 135 hammers.

Academy:
I looked at a few of my games. Even in the games where I cottaged my capitol, an academy would only add an average of ~30 beakers/turn over the 80 years and I think that's generous. So that's 2400-- about the same as lightbulbing. For some of my games it's more like 20 beakers/turn for 60 turns, so that's only 1200. Here are the real problems though...

1) The city that rushes the GS loses a lot of growth--either food or cottage growth.

2) you're running specialists before the pyramids and before Pacifism which is not very efficient.

3) your city that makes a GE has to go to 300 now instead of 150. That means you have to hold back your other GP farms. There's no time for that if you're trying to finish research in ~125 turns.

(if I play again) and use the extra GSci for PPress.

PPress? Why not Education?

yeah the major thread is boring as heck! seems we settlers are having way more fun, altho the fact that our games are so quick probably is a major factor.

Even I haven't tried the major yet. Hopefully after this ends everyone will try it. You'll find the major a quicker game, especially if you play OCC. These settler games are longer because you have to run around the whole map popping huts.

I don't think I'm going to get another chance at this one so 470AD I will end on (still 500 years better than I thought) so time to move to major :gulp

I don't see the pyramids as being such a painful investment. In my last game, I built the pyramids in 3 turns with only 5 forests in the capitol. I have Stone of course. A forge, Math, and Bureaucracy. And since I'm Saladin, I turn on Organized Religion. That's 50% for math and 200% on top of that. I think 1 forest is 135 hammers.

I'm still a relative beginner here... Math gives 50% bonus to hammers? I never knew... I've been researching math late in the game...

I see it in the tech description now... Never really paid attention to that before.

I also just had my best ever starting location for this gauntlet, and also popped 2 settlers and a worker very early. I decided to try a more pyramid-centric approach, and also tried to guarantee a GE first... Unfortunately my teching basically froze-up during my pyramid building and GEing phase, and I had to crank it up before the GE popped I was just way too far behind... This caused a GS to pop instead with 30% odds, and I still never caught up to my tech pace. I think I could have managed sub 400BC on this start with an early GS and an academy and building the pyramids very late (1200-1500BC) assuming I still managed a GE, but I've been getting GEs as my 3rd GPerson pretty regularly. By the time I'm working on my 3rd GP I generally have the forge already built and Pacifism in play and am working on the pyramids in that city. I usually only have to turn my tech off for 10-15 turns in the other cities to let that city (usually capital) pop the GE. I think this penalty is much smaller then holding off all scientist specialists till post GE popping. I really couldn't get any kind of tech going at all with a non financial civ on cottages... Just wasn't happening. Didn't have enough workers to build enough cottages and still hook up resources and chop what I was building. I know that strat works as WT has made obvious, but I think I personally can do better with an academy.

Hey WT - What is the point in the OCC? If the AI can still have a million cities, what advantage do you get from crippling yourself?... I went ahead and attempted it on deity, and I got an absolutely beautiful starting spot, but Cathy kicked my butt with about 15 units in 1510BC...

1. Can build Oxford-Globe-etc with only one uni/theatre/etc, I've never found 6 cities worth an uni.
2. Don't pick agressors like Cathy :)

I see it in the tech description now... Never really paid attention to that before.

I wasn't like that originally. They wanted to make early chopping worse in patch 1.52 or 1.61. So actually there is a -33% penalty for chopping before Math. So, if I did the calculation correctly I get 350% boost to hammers.

1 forest = 30
with math = 45
with stone = 90
with forge/bureau/Org.Rel = 135

1. Can build Oxford-Globe-etc with only one uni/theatre/etc, I've never found 6 cities worth an uni.
2. Don't pick agressors like Cathy :)

Um... I was going to make the exact same 2 points. Let me emphasize it is all about the Oxford. IIRC you want to get it built around 1 AD, probably 500 AD is fine.

I'd say one game out of about eight you will get attacked early on. I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent it. It must just be a random chance that a Pleased civ chooses you. Maybe it happens when they run out of space to expand. They roll the dice and your number comes up. If they don't bring a stack and they're not your direct neighbor you might survive it. It's best to bribe someone else to join you in the war if you can.

But if you pick the peaceful civs, you won't get attacked late game (unless you risk running a religion). You just need to get past that early war possibility with a little luck.

1010 AD. Would have been under 700BC if Izzy (damn her!) hadn't build the Oracle, and I had coordinated the Pyramids/GE better.

Honestly, This SE stuff is driving me nuts.

Early on I thought that Oasis would be the logical choice for this gauntlet, but I wasn't sure if there would be enough food specials and I know stone is in the middle of the desert. I was lured by the food that the east side of Great Plains always offered. Then found that the west side of GPlains had stone and really good food too. (If I have time to play this again) I'm going back to my original pick. Why is Oasis the logical choice? It has the most land squares by far, and that means the most huts. It also has the wonderful combination of Stone and LOTS of Flood Plains. Here are a few tips I picked up a long time ago about Oasis (might double check some of these "facts"): You always start on the south side, so you know to head north for the floodplains/stone. IIRC, players alternate between north and south starts. So if you care, you can choose your neighbors. Players 2, 4, and 6 start in the north. (You could try setting your player number to 2 and see if you get a north start, but that might not work.)

I think someone here reported that they were already using Oasis. Anyone have any comments on it?

Yes, I wanted to start Oasis and tried and get a start in the north (for horses which are always north) but also had to realize, that you cannot spawn there. :(
Where do you have all the knowledge anout Oasis from?

WT: I decided against oasis because it seems like the good city sites are usually too spread out... I also managed to get stone in the east of a Great Plains map (the one I tried pyramid strat on) along with 4 (yes 4) food specials in my fat cross of my capital... Was near 4 other good city sites. Best map ever, and I blew it. Anyway, when you talked me into the OCC for the major, I went back to Oasis, because it simply has the best early beaker city sites... Actually the ones on the south side. 2-3 Gems + a couple food/health specials just freaking rocks. Immediate (with mine) 7-8 gold on 1 tile can't be beat.

Finally improved to 410 AD.
Great luck with GH, 5 (yes, five) settlers and 2 workers, but a horrible map, lack of food resources, and not much happiness, too.
Not a single settler built, short war to eliminate an AI and to grab some resources.

Good timing for scientists, 2 artists for MM (but you need monarchy too, this time the AI did not discovered it, then i learned).

Stone in capital FC, marble far, but a courthouse helped.
No errors, won the first vote with 76 on 74 required :p .
But you need a lot of luck to find a good map and to have good results from the huts.

I think i'm done with this gauntlet.

Congrats superslug, i think this gauntlet is the most crowded ever... 33 listed submissions (2 minutes ago)... to be in the top ten has a meaning (i'm now 12th with my previous 530 AD).

Edit after WastinTime #218
thanks, infos in that thread seem useful

Where do you have all the knowledge anout Oasis from?

I read a post over a year ago by the creator of the map scripts from the Firaxis team. Hey look, I found it! here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134226)

Here's the relevant part and it does mention changing your number to start in the north...

Oasis

Regional Map: No world wrap
Land-Heavy Map: 52 plots wide, 32 plots tall, at "Standard" map size
Neutral Zone: Nobody ever starts in the desert region in the middle of the map.
Teams Alternate: Lowest team number starts in the south, next in the north, etc.
Assymetrical: The south gets more arable land but fewer resources.
Nile-Style Rivers: There are always four rivers, running randomly from south to north.

Resources Anywhere: Cow, Coal, Copper, Uranium
Southern Resources: Dye, Fur, Gems, Silk (rare!), Sugar, Banana, Deer, Pig, Rice
Northern Resources: Horses, Marble, Fur, Silver, Spices, Wine, Sheep, Wheat, and seafoods.
Oasis-Region: Aluminum, Corn (abundant!), Iron, Oil, Stone, Gold, Incense, Ivory

In Single Player: You will always start in the south, unless you use the Advanced options and swap your team number with the first AI listed (or similar action).

Anyway, when you talked me into the OCC for the major, I went back to Oasis, because it simply has the best early beaker city sites... Actually the ones on the south side. 2-3 Gems + a couple food/health specials just freaking rocks. Immediate (with mine) 7-8 gold on 1 tile can't be beat.

I can tell you have a natural talent for this game. For my OCC Diplo games I tell the map generator to just show me gems starts. They do rock. The problem with gold is that you can't work it and expect to grow your city and produce an Academy. I've also been known to go with Fur on a river, but that's really a poor substitute.

I just had a 2 Gem + Dye + Iron + Rice and a lot of river tiles start on Inland Sea... I goofed and got my academy too late... Had already missed oracle, knew I was about to miss Liberalism, and had nothing to trade for PPress... Anyway, I got Oxford in about 500AD and in 750AD or so my city went unhappy due to emancipation... Sigh, will give it another go, but doubt I get a map that nice...

*deleted posting, misunderstood previous post*

uwsublime - globe theater is awesome in OCC. It eliminates any happiness problems :D It's just a matter of health after that. OR can you not spare the hammers for it?

re: oasis map and wanting the north

i moved this to the HOF Rules/FAQ thread since it's probably more appropriate there.

Good point shyuhe! Unfortunately nobody had really explored that side of the tech tree yet, all of them seemed to be going the same route I was directly for lib/physics. I would have been able to build it after Oxford, though it would have still been a little late... I need to get to education faster then the AI.

Oh, I take that back... We already had drama, though they all went for CS prior to Philo for some reason. By the time the theatre was available to build I was only a few turns away from education. I wouldn't have thought of it anyway, I have to get used to OCC.

So I replayed the OCC that I had a great start on but screwed up, just to see if I can win this... Managed to build the UN in about 1500AD. Had missed Liberalism and Physics by about 10 turns each. I failed 3 votes for diplo victory 508 out of 546 needed, then in 1553AD Asoka won space race... Isn't that a pretty early space race? Even on deity?

mmm... wrong thread?

Nope, I'm discussing the OCC deity strategy with WT in this thread.

Nope, I'm discussing the OCC deity strategy with WT in this thread.
That conversation should probably move to the Major thread. This thread's gauntlet is a much different difficulty level and we don't need to be confusing people.;)

It came up due to the lack of discussion in the other thread.

Now I'm having 2nd thoughts about the Academy. It's true value is not whether it makes more beakers than lightbulbing. What it does well is accelerate the research of CS, metal casting, math. This allows you to chop the forge/pyramids earlier and, consequently, start pumping out GS's earlier. I'm going to do the Academy again next game (which will be Wednesday :-( I'm off on vacation and my not have internet access to respond. good luck all)

(I responded about OCC in the Major thread)

I'm convinced it is only going to be a 3-4 turn swing either way with the academy... It could possibly even be dependent on more then just the number of turns left in the game when the option to build it arises. I do think that it is probably worth it, but not by a lot... Thank you for your reply, I'll head over to the other thread to chat more about the OCC there.

Muah.
Submitted for the first time ever with this gauntlet with a 1352AD win - the earliest I've -ever- previously had a win was ~1980AD or so (space race, usually). I'm still absolutely amazed at the early timing some of y'all are clocking, just blows my mind.

Ran Saladin on Great Plains, popped 2x GE for UN in 1298, easily won Chairman, and surprisingly won on the first vote for the win (I say surprisingly 'cause Roosevelt changed religion from Judaism to Buddhism (which he'd founded but I overrode him back in the BC years :D) around 1100. Managed to score some points with Genghis through a joint war against Mansa (which docked me a point with everyone else...). I had Hatshepsut and Genghis basically worshipping the ground I walked on, and Vicki helped out for the win. Won the vote by 2. lol

Submitted for the first time ever with this gauntlet with a 1352AD win - the earliest I've -ever- previously had a win was ~1980AD or so [...] Won the vote by 2. lol

beating your own time is an awesome feeling ain't it? and a 2 vote margin would have me giggling at my luck while being proud. grats!!

beating your own time is an awesome feeling ain't it? and a 2 vote margin would have me giggling at my luck while being proud. grats!!

Yar.
It's quite nice.

Just did a Chieftan OCC (just to give the concept a try...) ended up with Legendary culture (without really trying, just building everything I could...) in the 1500'sAD, and a true Diplomatic win in 1894AD (second vote for the win, by 4 lol ), as Ghandi. If I'd actually tried to beeline to MM, I probably could have had the win -far- earlier than that, but I wasn't even trying to do anything other than a time victory lol
And yes, I'm -still- giggling about it, because I didn't think I'd pull if off (granted, I -did- have Defensive Pacts with both Lizzie and Cyrus, but they weren't very large...).

</derail>

Ggily, I'm not sure if this applies to your settler gauntlet entry, but it sounds like you might be overbuilding. For this particular gauntlet the only things I'm building in every city are library and granary. You also need a forge in the city you plan on popping a GE from, unless you got really early pyramids and expect a GE from that. You really don't need forges anywhere else. The only other things to build are Oracle, Pyramids, and UN. If you are working your way down to faster times and still playing a slightly longer game, you might find value in the Great Library or National Epic, but both should be optional even in a longer game. Also for longer games Universities / Oxford might prove worthwhile. If you are trying to improve down in the sub 500AD range though, you should probably stick with just the bare minimum of infrastructure and wonders built. Great job beating your best by 600 years, and I hope you continue to improve!

770AD. Had the UN built in the 300's AD, but the expected GE didn't pop - I wound up with a GS at 15 percent odds. :mad:

Thanks to WastinTime and Uwsublime for their tips. They really helped.

I had something like 12 cows over 5 cities. Those *really* helped. West Side, Great Plains. Perfect start. :D

I have played 2-d time: xxxBC, but it is not a very good game.

Trying theeast side where I've played west and Peter instead of Saladin. It got me to the 350AD I knew I could make if I'd just remember to use the Oracle. Tech path wasn't perfect and the AI slow to research to odd tech for me, so I can do better but I think I've seen enough. Now to move on to the majar.... :cringe: wish me luck. ;)

I've played west and Peter instead of Saladin.

I do not see alternatives to Peter. Saladin starts without scout - so initial settler must spend some moves at the beginig to scout map before creating capital that fully eliminates spiritual bonuses.

Just got a 230AD victory which improves a great deal on my 1010AD. Used Saladin, and got the best start ever for me. Popped 5 settlers, 2 workers, 2 scouts and metal casting. This is currently 10th place so that means there are a few very good entries. I think I could have saved maybe a few extra turns here and there but overall pretty happy with this game.

Time to try the Major?

Just got a 1424 AD win after the first try at 4 turns before failed as I needed two more votes :mad:

I forgot to emphasize food in 2 cities which could have gotten me the win earlier :cry: sigh

I'm now doing my second try. Its a pretty good start. :king:

1. pigs on plains hills
2. marble on plain next to lake
3. grassland forest silk next to river
4. coastal clams
5. plains wheat next to lake (I think)

I would like some advice regarding Monty, Alex and HC (I chose random opponents). Should I be friends with them or team up with Washy, MM and Aoska for the win (with the risk of war)?

Thank you.

Just got a 1424 AD win after the first try at 4 turns before failed as I needed two more votes :mad:

I'm now doing my second try. Its a pretty good start. :king:

I would like some advice regarding Monty, Alex and HC (I chose random opponents). Should I be friends with them or team up with Washy, MM and Aoska for the win (with the risk of war)?

Thank you.

Hey, you did good! :) Not bad for a first try, I got in the 1500's the first time. You're doing great. :goodjob:

My advice on opponents. Pick those that get along with each other and you. No warmongers. I suggest you use:

Asoka, Ghandi, Washington, Roosevelt, Cyrus, Elizabeth, Saladin while playing Peter or the civ of your choice. The last thing you want to do in this gauntlet is go to war. You have to max your tech, as I discovered by reading various posts on this thread after struggling badly.

Keep trying and read the posts in this thread. You'll do great!

Okay, for my last attempt (I promise!), came up with 470 AD. Would have been lower, late 200's, early 300's if I hadn't thoughtlessly built the Oracle in the same city as Pyramids and contaminated the GE Great Person I was working towards. :mad: Dumb mistake cost me, since I wound up wasting a lot of turns chopping the UN. Grrrr!

Played as Peter on Great Plains, got a good start in the NE corner, popped 4 settlers, grabbed Stone and Marble, both of which helped. Unfortunately, I only popped 2 workers, so I wound up building 4, which didn't help growth much, heh. I think this was my best game.

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread - I certainly learned more in this one game than I have in the last 3 months. :goodjob: I'm not sure I'm ready to tackle the Major, but I'll probably give it a shot.

Hey, you did good! :) Not bad for a first try, I got in the 1500's the first time. You're doing great. :goodjob:

My advice on opponents. Pick those that get along with each other and you. No warmongers. I suggest you use:

Asoka, Ghandi, Washington, Roosevelt, Cyrus, Elizabeth, Saladin while playing Peter or the civ of your choice. The last thing you want to do in this gauntlet is go to war. You have to max your tech, as I discovered by reading various posts on this thread after struggling badly.

Keep trying and read the posts in this thread. You'll do great!

Sigh. I have to start a new game after this suggestion (though it is a good one, don't be offended). Thanks :goodjob:

Never mind, I think I can still get a win before 1000AD. ;)

Sigh. I have to start a new game after this suggestion (though it is a good one, don't be offended). Thanks :goodjob:

Never mind, I think I can still get a win before 1000AD. ;)

Yes, you sure can. If I can, anyone can, as klutzy as I can be with this game. :blush: :p

A good post to read is this one by uwsublime (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5108639&postcount=165). This is a great post on the tech beeline you need to get sub-500AD win. If it wasn't for this, I'd not have gotten as far as I did.

Thanks for all your help DeafDolphin. I really appreciate it. Will try your suggestions out later when I play.

Thanks for all your help DeafDolphin. I really appreciate it. Will try your suggestions out later when I play.

No problem, dude, and it was just what I learned from WastinTime and Uwsublime and the others who posted in this thread.

Good luck! :goodjob:

Yes, you sure can. If I can, anyone can, as klutzy as I can be with this game. :blush: :p

A good post to read is this one by uwsublime (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5108639&postcount=165). This is a great post on the tech beeline you need to get sub-500AD win. If it wasn't for this, I'd not have gotten as far as I did.

I agree, my 230AD came pretty much due to the info that uwsublime supplied in that post. Thanks uwsublime.