While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Deity
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Any
Speed: Epic
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.61.010 or 2.08.003
Date: 11th February to 9th March 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

This particular table is wide open, and so I've left many of the settings wide open. Hopefully the flexibility in choosing maptype and Civilizations will embolden some players to join the Deity club.

Sweeet... Not gonna miss this one! Thanx, superslug!

Although 1.61.004 doesn't seem to be the latest mod, drawbacks of copy-pasting ;)

Although 1.61.004 doesn't seem to be the latest mod, drawbacks of copy-pasting ;)
Not copy-pasting, I forgot that option in the Gauntlet Admin Panel.

Thanks for catching that, because I forgot to add Warlords too! :lol: I'm sure I would have caught it in the postupdate proofread. I'm sure of it. :mischief:

Following the recent posts on this matter, it doesn't look too difficult to predict a winner for this one...
I'm looking forward to playing this one, can learn a lot here I think! :)

bah Deity... i'm playing GotM15, it's not fair ... at least we have no chains about our rivals and so on

Oh, dear. This is gonna be a difficult one. *Hitches up britches*. Bring 'em on.

It looks like G-major-9 has lost the right way - I see it in minor's path.

Doh first try wasted. Lost liberalism by 1 turn. Seems like I shoulda shot for philo before paper to keep others from it for a bit longer (at least I think AI wont find techs that give religs so fast if its founded already). But that wasnt all, Wash & Roos decided to hit PA. Also seemed like I need some extra research to hit UN in time so allien with Hatty. Well Asoka didnt like that enough. And there went just enough votes to go down the drain as they went up the ladder enough to go past Hatty that was planned to be my opponent. Well next shot on weekend. Shoulda stopped when lost lib though.

Im having second thouht of going wit Liz next. If phi gives you scientist in 13 turns instead of 25 it can be counted as 6 rounds of extra speed for research with caste even a bit more though that wont be neccessary with philosophical. And engineer will come out in 50 instead of 100. Thats some extra research too. Now Mansa just saves monarcy, caste, bureauc, liberalism, (pacifism+relig), (democracy) and suffrage totaling 5-8 rounds. Not to mention if its enough to get one more specialist with oxford+shakespeare+specialists.
Im also wondering is it worthwhile to run oracle-cs as it will mostly spoil engineer at least in this gauntlet retries coulda take too long to get lucky. Seemed like id hit somewhere around 1300 even without liberalism.

-Dracandross

@HoF Staff: I'm not for sure why, but this game is the default for the minor gauntlets on the gauntlet HoF page (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor). Under the major tab it isn't shown at all.

@HoF Staff: I'm not for sure why, but this game is the default for the minor gauntlets on the gauntlet HoF page (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor). Under the major tab it isn't shown at all.
Corrected. Thank you.

HI. I wonder if anyone can give some advice here. I keep getting to the UN first but losing the vote. I never go to war, I donate techs left and right, and I try to change my civics so match the AI's preferences but every time the vote comes around, I lose! Everyone likes me with at least a +7 score and my scores are always higher than the AI opponent yet the AI always wins the vote. I'm playing under warlords 2.08. Is there something I'm not doing here??? I was kinda expecting that the challenge of this gauntlet would be building the UN first while keeping the peace with everyone...
I'm confused (and just a tad frustrated!!!)

HI. I wonder if anyone can give some advice here. I keep getting to the UN first but losing the vote. I never go to war, I donate techs left and right, and I try to change my civics so match the AI's preferences but every time the vote comes around, I lose! Everyone likes me with at least a +7 score and my scores are always higher than the AI opponent yet the AI always wins the vote. I'm playing under warlords 2.08. Is there something I'm not doing here??? I was kinda expecting that the challenge of this gauntlet would be building the UN first while keeping the peace with everyone...
I'm confused (and just a tad frustrated!!!)

Have a look at the links in my sig for an indepth look at attitude.
A couple things: there is a lot of invisible modifiers both between you and any AI and between two AIs. And one of those is a random +3 to -3 between AIs so that even if you figure out the rest from the AI Personality Matrix there still is some uncertainty if your oponnent and you have similiar relations to another AI.
Also you need +8 for an AI to vote for you.

Ori, Many thanks. I'll take a look at this today (during my lunch break of course!)and give it another shot tonight. Looks like some good info.

Cheers

Well its time to give this one a go. Have had a couple of runs at this and both times tried a run at CS-slingshot. Missed by 5ish turns both times. I would have been able to build the Oracle but not research to CoL.

Question is, is this a worthwhile tactic at Deity? I'm beginning to suspect that it is not. But I also don't think I can tech to Mass Media quickly enough if I don't.

Might try gunning for Alphabet from the get go and getting an early library and Academy up.

I can also see the benefits of financial, philosophical and spiritual here but unsure who of Liz/Mansu/Sally would be best.

Much to ponder...

I can also see the benefits of financial, philosophical and spiritual here but unsure who of Liz/Mansu/Sally would be best.

Much to ponder...

Spiritual is not very good on Epic speed. I used it on the Minor gauntlet because it was only about 135 turns long. These games are around 280 - 300 turns I think.

I'm seeing a lot of folks in the Minor Gauntlet thinking about this one, but not sure how to proceed. If it's at all helpful, may I suggest some inspirational reading from the CFC IV War Academy (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/)?

Moonsinger's (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/julius_caesar.php) perpetual anarchy trick has long since been patched out, but this article is still a great read. It's also always fun to think about how this very Hall of Fame can impact the game itself (the exploits discovered and then patched). Everyone should be proud to be here, regardless of how "good" they see themselves.

Godotnut compiled his strategies for six HOF games. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/peaceful_deity_cultural.php)

Phyacis (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/deity_occ.php) has an article discussing beating Deity with a single city!

This is THE most frustrating gauntlet!

So far I have built the UN and not won the vote 3 times, I have missed out on the UN by 1 turn twice and also have been invaded by Roosevelt (the back-stabbing worm!) IN BETWEEN building the UN and the vote two games in a row! In one game Asoka managed to research MM and then build the UN within the turn it took me to do the same!!

And that's not counting the umpteen times i have missed liberalism by at most a few turns..

And I still haven't posted a win...

I have to say, if don't throw the laptop out of the window before I beat this game it'll be a miracle! And i thought i was stressed in one of my previous posts!

ARRGH!!!!

This is THE most frustrating gauntlet!

So far I have built the UN and not won the vote 3 times, I have missed out And that's not counting the umpteen times i have missed liberalism by at most a few turns..

And I still haven't posted a win...
ARRGH!!!!

That quite well sums up my feelings too. Failures
1) No engineer even at high%
2) No liberalism
3) No UN
4) No votes
5) Rinse & repeat. Wonder if timeline gives enough to pull this through.

Damn Wasting Time is good at not wasting time.

-Dracandross

The liberalism race is a tough one. You really have to hold back trading CS and paper. Certainly don't trade Education until you are a few turns away from completing Liberalism. At one time I decided to take the risk of losing that race out of the equation. You get to skip Philosophy and Liberalism and just research Astronomy instead. The only reason I stopped this plan was I didn't like it if the AI that gets liberalism takes Astronomy free, because then I lose the race to Physics too and possibly get beat to MM. But sometimes they take Nationalism. I think if you make sure to give Edu to someone who will not choose Astronomy, you're good.

Another problem might be the map you're using. You need to find a map that slows down the AI. Use high seas so they run out of space.

@uwsublime: I agree our conversation should have moved off of the Minor gauntlet thread. If anyone wants to catch up, go there. We were discussing OCC for this Diety gauntlet...

I always build the Globe Theater. It's solves the emacipation problem AND even better, you can now trade away all your happiness resources for health or money.

(Going on vacation for a few days...not sure I'll have internet access)

WT: I have tried a couple more deity OCCs since that last post in the other thread. I have since managed a 1520AD win, which could have probably been more like 1450 with a couple very minor changes. Yes, I noticed that very pleasant side effect of the globe a few turns after I built it when I was looking at my resource advisor... That is a *great* bonus allowing you to add health. I haven't been able to get a city over size 12 in the OCC setup on deity yet, and it would have been more like size 9 or 10 w/o that bonus. The biggest downfall of OCC is lack of resources.

So, in the game I won, I didn't even attempt oracle... I wanted to get liberalism, but chose not to lightbulb education due to nobody else having paper yet... Next thing I know, I look up and someone has education... They must have saved their own GS. Ended up missing liberalism by about 10 turns. So, then I'm cruising along... I'm the only one with astronomy and I have a GS in the bank with another one on the way in a few turns... I research Sci Method and trade astronomy away for Printing Press planning to bulb half of Physics with my 2 GScis and get the bonus GSci from that... Anyway, I goofed again, I traded away for chemistry in the meantime which pushed my bulbs into biology... I'll remember not to do that next time.

Now that I've got a little experience in this setup, I think I can go sub 1400AD. I have no idea how you are getting games in the low 1100s on OCC... Are you somehow managing both Oracle and Liberalism? How many GScis are you generating during a game? I was pushing over 400 beakers with a mostly cottage economy so only ran 1-2 scientists the majority of the game... Also had no pyramids so representation didn't come until late. I think I popped only 3 GScis and an artist. Maybe its the game speed that is pushing the time back? What is your best time so far that qualifies for this gauntlet? I notice your best on the HoF is 1112 AD for epic speed, but that's on a Duel map... Seems to me Duel would be slower due to less trading, but faster due to easier Oracle/Lib and faster tech rate on smaller maps...

1376AD, very far from current tables. Musa, I didn't try to get Oracle or Liberalism first. 2GP, early GS for Academy, GE for UN, almost 100% probability but Oxford affected a bit. Bad trading from the start (the Oracle builder chose Alphabet) and only 3 resources made for a bad game. Shouldn't have moved my settler away from the river on the first turn. Also a lot of little mistakes, like nor hiring 2 sci asap. I was able to catch up and not be left behind, but I wasn't able to trade for Print so I had to research it myself before SciMe. That hurt!
Beeline to Alphabet, then to CS, then to Astronomy. Lost the race to Physics and got 3rd to MM, but the GE was there to help. I forgot to rushbuy that same turn, wich meant UN 1 turn late, which meant victory 4 turns late. The voting was very easy, everybody run US, my opponent was Hatty, the only one who didn't have US as a favourite and didn't run it. Everybody voted for me.

The true reason to write this post is to share a little trick I hadn't used before. Money is falling from the sky, you don't know what to do with it if you play OCC. Ok, lower your research rate for second, trade 12gpt for that sorely needed health resource and go back to 100%. Stone for Oxford is worth 15gpt.

The liberalism race is a tough one. You really have to hold back trading CS and paper. Certainly don't trade Education until you are a few turns away from completing Liberalism.

Hi. I can't seem to be able to win the Liberalism race, not in this gauntlet, not in cultural Deity games either, even when using a GS for Philo and other for Educ.

When 2 AI have gotten CS (or Paper) I know they are going to trade among them, so I trade it to all other AIs that very same turn. Shouldn't I be doing that?

I lost Lib by 6 turns in my last goaround... Then I lost physics by 10 turns. Getting very frustrating. I think I'm skipping Lib next try.

OK, so I finally got a win. Played with Liz against the usual suspects of Asoka, Ghandi, Fred, Washington, Roosevelt and Mansa Musa. I used pangaea with high sea level and tropical climate so that the jungles would slow down the AI. Not sure if this is a good map setup or not but it seemed to work ok...

Finished in 1556 which ain't gonna trouble the top of the table I don't think. Its my first Deity win though so I'm pretty happy!

I didn't win the race to liberalism, nor physics but I did get to MM second by just a turn or two and then had the cash and the GE waiting to finish the UN. Still, I didn't win the first vote and had to wait until the 'you've wisely chosen your civics' bonus grew.

I might give it another go to improve my time. I'd like to try it with a different map and opponents other than Asoka and Ghandi who always seem to be the ones who I am racing with for liberalism, physics and MM. I noticed Jesusin used Hatty, any other suggestions anyone?

One last thing, I am trying this using warlords (I can't find my ordinary CIV4 CD!). Is anyone else trying this using warlords or is everyone else doing this in Vanilla?

I haven't been able to get a city over size 12 in the OCC setup on deity yet, and it would have been more like size 9 or 10 w/o that bonus. The biggest downfall of OCC is lack of resources.

Have you considered Victoria? Expansive isn't usually so great, but on OCC...

Are you somehow managing both Oracle and Liberalism? How many GScis are you generating during a game? I was pushing over 400 beakers with a mostly cottage economy so only ran 1-2 scientists the majority of the game... Also had no pyramids so representation didn't come until late. I think I popped only 3 GScis and an artist. Maybe its the game speed that is pushing the time back? What is your best time so far that qualifies for this gauntlet? I notice your best on the HoF is 1112 AD for epic speed, but that's on a Duel map... Seems to me Duel would be slower due to less trading, but faster due to easier Oracle/Lib and faster tech rate on smaller maps...

I don't build the oracle or pyramids. You can do the oracle with a financial leader and get CS. However some of the time you miss it and then if you do get it you have the problem of getting a GP instead of GE. It also delays your Academy, so I quit trying for it.

I've played mostly Vicky, Mansa, not really much focus on Philo. I'm not sure I pop more than 1 GS after the academy and the GE. I was thinking of going to Philo this gauntlet since I think Mansa is no good on Epic speed.

I've got that 1304 AD high score on Epic with Victoria and that was Huge size, so I have to believe that sub-1200 will happen. Huge has much slower tech and no advantages except maybe no one crowds your space.

Duel size is a completely different monster. You can only have 2 opponents so there's no way to win the vote without conquest (using OCC)

Hi. I can't seem to be able to win the Liberalism race, not in this gauntlet, not in cultural Deity games either, even when using a GS for Philo and other for Educ.

When 2 AI have gotten CS (or Paper) I know they are going to trade among them, so I trade it to all other AIs that very same turn. Shouldn't I be doing that?

I also trade those after a couple others get it. You need to get some value out of those techs at some point. I don't have a whole lot of trouble getting liberalism without even using GS lightbulbing. I find that with no Pyramids and with Bureaucracy, you need to focus on cottages and growing, not running science specialists. Or, maybe your map setup allows the AI to tech faster?

Finished in 1556 which ain't gonna trouble the top of the table I don't think. Its my first Deity win though so I'm pretty happy!

grats!!!

i tried it a little bit last night. but when Mansa called up for a diplomatic chat and said "here we think you might find this useful" and gave me bronzeworking for free i thought "oooooookay i'm behind" and that diety does indeed remain beyond my grasp for now. was awfully nice of him tho, bless his heart.

Being behind is the way things are in Deity. Key is to know where you want to be. A beeline means you pass up on most of the regular techs, which creates a chance you'll be one of the first at MM. Building the UN the turn you research it means you'll beat the AI to it. If you succeeded in keeping them happy and they are still busy with the expensive spaceship parts mean you have a chance of winning. In a Deity level game you only can get really in front is by continuous warring.

Mind you, this is III only knowledge for me at this time. I've only beaten Deity in IV in quecha runs ATM.

grats!!!

i tried it a little bit last night. but when Mansa called up for a diplomatic chat and said "here we think you might find this useful" and gave me bronzeworking for free i thought "oooooookay i'm behind" and that diety does indeed remain beyond my grasp for now. was awfully nice of him tho, bless his heart.

haha, I just tried too and I got given about 5 techs by different leaders. I knew it was over when, while researching physics on my way to MM I was given it by another civ.

haha, I just tried too and I got given about 5 techs by different leaders. I knew it was over when, while researching physics on my way to MM I was given it by another civ.

hahahaha! i knew that they'd give me techs if they considered me pathetic enough ... errrr i mean if they were feeling generous and i was way far behind. but i am definitely not used to being THAT behind THAT early and was completely in over my (crazy) head.

and the trading, OMG! they'll like only trade you something worth like 1/3rd of what you're trading them. i'm used to doing a lot trading to backfill techs i skipped. the minor made me re-think how to play without that strategy, since they were too slow (even with me donating the prereqs to them). this one is 180 degrees from that!

deadline's a long time away, i'll probably try it again before then, especially if i can learn more from the thread here.

Ok so I got another win! This time it was 1352AD (much more respectable) but I only just squeezed it by 1 vote. So, Drool, KMadCandy and all you others fighting to beat Diety for the first time, don't give up! If I can do it you can do it!

I used the inland sea map this time and booted out Asoka and Ghandi and got in Wang Kon and Churchill. I think this was probably only half and half a good idea. Wang was sound, but Churchill was pretty recalcitrant when it came to voting - he kept abstaining and his favourite civic was impossible to get him to change to to pick up extra points that way! Maybe Hatty would be better?

I followed the cottage plan this time rather than specialists but I still used Liz as I wanted to get the first GS and GE really quickly. I got the GS asap after the library for the academy then held off running anything until i had the forge for the GE. After that i think i only got 1 GS and I GA that I used to finish off MM. By the end my city was churning out >700 science per turn though!

I missed Liberalism and Physics but because there was no Asoka/Ghandi, the Ai didnt seem that interested in radio or MM...

One tip that might help win the vote. You can build up 'appreciate years you supplied us with resources' points by trading away happy and health resources even when you need them, as long as you get the same type of resource back. For example trade away your only gold but get back a gem. You don't get a net bonus (except when you manage to exchange something like a sheep for a corn when you have a granary) but if you can keep this up over the whole game it could give you +2 for each leader you trade with. Sorry if that seems obvious, it didn't to me!

Another tip is to not shut off the research after you build the UN. Go for another tech - i did medicine next - if you feel the vote might not go your way. That way you can use the tech as bribes or even to allow the 2nd place person to grow quicker and become number 1 if that will help. That's what happened in my game ad it was the key to getting the win!

Hope this helps and good luck!

One tip that might help win the vote. You can build up 'appreciate years you supplied us with resources' points by trading away happy and health resources even when you need them, as long as you get the same type of resource back. For example trade away your only gold but get back a gem. You don't get a net bonus (except when you manage to exchange something like a sheep for a corn when you have a granary) but if you can keep this up over the whole game it could give you +2 for each leader you trade with. Sorry if that seems obvious, it didn't to me!

it seems obvious now that you typed it, but it had never crossed my mind. thank you!

ps i can't believe you killed the indians! i have visions in my head of us all getting along all game, like in the minor. if i have to like, actually help eliminate a civ, on diety? man oh man.

Great tips Planitia! Congrats on your win.

I also trade those after a couple others get it. You need to get some value out of those techs at some point. I don't have a whole lot of trouble getting liberalism without even using GS lightbulbing. I find that with no Pyramids and with Bureaucracy, you need to focus on cottages and growing, not running science specialists. Or, maybe your map setup allows the AI to tech faster?

Thank you.

You are right, as usual. I think that you can only research as fast as the fastest AI. So I believe that the fastest finish will be the one that helps 'poor Deity AI' the most. So I chose low waters and the best researchers as opponents (except Musa, I can't control tech trades when he is in the game).

Since getting Astronomy for free after researching Liberalism is only 40% cheaper than directly researching Astronomy, I am inclined to think that we shouldn't even try to get Liberalism first... I don't know...

Ouch... Just tried again... 1252AD - Ghandi has built the United Nations... They smoked me.

Just noticed that Wasting is using just minimum numbers of opponents on each map. I thought using more makes them grow slower and helps you but seems im wrong. Does using more AIs make them get stuff you want to hold, like paper and edu until lib, faster? At least its easy to pick 9 AIs for standard. Or helps to get oracle, at least in my games i couldnt even dream of getting oracle pre COL to get slingshot.

BTW got again brilliant start, gems, gold & 5 floods, +1 one food outside fat but gettable. I had 6 citizens in no time working (premonarch of course), shields & beakers were coming outta like hell and all seemed well then Roos came on me. Dang!

-Dracandross

it seems obvious now that you typed it, but it had never crossed my mind. thank you!

ps i can't believe you killed the indians! i have visions in my head of us all getting along all game, like in the minor. if i have to like, actually help eliminate a civ, on diety? man oh man.

If you read what he wrote again, I'm pretty sure he didn't kill the indians, he just replaced them with other Civs (Wang and Churchill)

If you read what he wrote again, I'm pretty sure he didn't kill the indians, he just replaced them with other Civs (Wang and Churchill)

ooooooooooooh! i misread "got in Wang Kon and Churchill" as got in with them, got on their good side by slaughtering poor asoka and gandhi. but i'm sure you're right now that i give it a second look. thanks!

If you read what he wrote again, I'm pretty sure he didn't kill the indians, he just replaced them with other Civs (Wang and Churchill)

Gosh, yes, that's exactly what I did. The thought of going to war on this level is frightening - even against pacifists like Ghandi!

The reason I decided to not use the Indian CIVs as opponents is that they seemed to me to be far too good at fast expanding/teching and seem to like beelining for MM. I was having so much trouble getting to MM first (or just getting there first only for one of the Indians to build the UN) that I figured I'd maximise my chances of building the UN first and think about actually getting the vote second.

I think I am gonna leave it at this game now for this gauntlet. I couldn't get to sleep last night after spending too much time on CIV! :crazyeye: Better get out the house more...

I wonder what finish date WastinTime will put up? I have to say I got almost all of my ideas for this gauntlet from reading his posts and replies to others... Cheers!

Whop almost got it this time. Missed liberalism but got physics anyway. Im used to play perm alliances on (which is not good idea in this game though). I got Un nicely around 1200 but Mansa was way bigger than everyone else and Frederic liked him alot more than me. So couldnt pull votes off (well mistake was that I shoulda first picked free relig proposition to make all lose religs, I was unable to trade them for free relig). Also Mansa had perm alliance tech ready so i was affraid that if he pulls it out with Fred as I can't get his votes anyway I picked PA with mansa. Good for me, but Mansa had a war with Liz and that made me lose Liz's vote along with number 2 AI. So no UN this time either. But for the bright side, I may be able to pull of space win, that shoulda outdo at least future starts :). At least now we're few techs ahead of everyone else and going fast for internet for the skipped techs & fusion for largest part.

Also noted that if AI has some good food resource free, you shoulda trade it quickly or it will be traded to some stupid AI instead. I had extra gold that I had traded for another lux pretheatre. After few turns Id been able to change that gold for wheat but it was gone. 2 health mistake, ouch.

I just love this gauntlet, learned alot again. Shoulda have more time to play (or finish this one soon), Id like to try another shot for the minor got just 470ad or so with first shot. It seemed nice too.

-Dracandross

Just noticed that Wasting is using just minimum numbers of opponents on each map. I thought using more makes them grow slower and helps you but seems im wrong.
-Dracandross

This is an excellent idea and I used it on smaller maps. The only reason I used the minimum number on stanard size is because I knew that group would vote for me. Any additional civs are harder to guarantee the vote. I only played each size map once or twice to get it on the high score table. Now the that this competition is on, it would probably be very wise to take a few risks and add at least 1 extra civ. Not only should it slow them down like you thought, but you also have more people to trade with.

Gosh, yes, that's exactly what I did. The thought of going to war on this level is frightening - even against pacifists like Ghandi!
...

I think I am gonna leave it at this game now for this gauntlet. I couldn't get to sleep last night after spending too much time on CIV! :crazyeye: Better get out the house more...

well yeah the thought scared me realllllllllllly bad! clearly even the concept of diety difficulty level induces a level of fright in me that dumbs down my ability to interpret posts.

not sleeping and too much civ, i can totally relate. my house would be so much cleaner if sid meier had chosen some other career. this has been true since civ2.

i'm playing an OCC game atm, altho not for the gauntlet, it's completely different (settler level for my time victory checkbox on QM table). even at that level i've learned quite a bit about how OCC is different from other games. and it has been ridiculously fun permanently harassing but not killing off my poor victim.

I've tried twice: the first time I had raging barbs on thinking the Deity AI would take care of them and be slowed down a bit at the same time.... bad idea.. :cringe: Even though I started on a hill and my warrior survived the first wave of warriors, the first Archer ended the game. :lol:

The second time seemed to go OK for a while, but Asoka turned on me before Alphabet. I had Open Borders with everyone and no religion to piss anyone of. I guess I should build more Warriors to project some semblance of power.

'twas Liz on Warlords, inland sea, BTW.

I'll have one stab at the minor before trying again I think...

damn i miss cs-slingshot every single time by 2 or 3 turns and consequently miss liberalism by around 3 turns in the end and get beat to the un.... and that 4 times in a row :cry:

:king: Finally I managed to pull through it! Scoring second at least for now. I had quite decent start with ~10floods+ivory+gold+gold+corn to make city grow size 6 premonarchy. Pulled out confu, liberalism and physics too. I made mistake when picking liberalism tech though. I took printing press as I had 20 rounds or so left for oxford, thought its more useful to get +1 cottages meanwhile i research astro (was about 20rnds). I forgot that AIs research always press first, so I coulda traded it quite cheaply later when Id researched it somewhat and still coulda hold for astro. Got 1 scientist and 1 engineer. All voted for me. Now for settler...

-Dracandross

First attempted bombed. Got beat to the UN by at least 50 turns from what I can tell, despite having 3 floodplains and 3 gold, using one city challenge rules as Vicky. Got beat to Oracle and Liberalism. I conclude I'll have to forget them and just go after the techs I need.

I think the OCC robbed me of any chance at winning this one. Hrm. I'll have to try again. Maybe using Warlords this time, Vicky again (Imperialistic and Financial, lets me at least get some more settlers up and running faster. I think 5 cities would be optimal.

Edit: so much for Warlords Vicky. *wry grin* Should've known that wouldn't have worked. Still got crowded out. Eh. I'll wait for the next Major in the hopes it's a tad easier to handle than this one. :)

Not only should it slow them down like you thought, but you also have more people to trade with.

If you want to secure a victory, then it is ok to try to slow them down. But if you are trying to win the Gauntlet, you should do the opposite, help the AI.

My second attempt has gone much better. I wanted to try high seas. I am sorry I did, with such a good start. I had 3 Gems in the fat cross. I was so far ahead of the AI that I had to wait for them to be able to trade. Some data:

Victoria. Alphabet 1990BC. Academy 1150BC. CS 880BC. Education 445BC. Liberalism+Astronomy in 235BC. Oxford 55BC. 90bpt 1000BC. 400bpt 1AD. 700bpt at the end.

When I had Education they had just researched MC. What a waste! I was so long not running an engineer that when I was able to hire him, Oxford was already available. I even had to delay Globe Theater in order to maximize GE chances.

Two turns before Liberalism I traded my monopoly on Paper for Compass and the next turn traded my monopoly on Education for Optics. Had they had those techs some turns earlier, I could have researched Astronomy myself, using Liberalism for a more expensive free tech.

After Liberalism, nobody new what Printing Press was, so I had to research it myself, instead of trading for it.

All this reasons justify my idea of helping the AI to research faster. I recommend low waters, minimum number of AIs, good researchers like Hatty, Gandhi or Musa.


Thank you, WastinTime, for the description of your OCC strategy. I have learned a lot. I previously thought this way:
“I have the secretary, let’s call a victory election. I hope someone votes for me”
Now, I finished the game this way:
“(twenty turns before) I prefer Washington to be my rival, I’ll stop trading resources with Fred and I’ll gift them all to Washington so that his population grows”
“I have the secretary, if I call a victory election Fred will vote for Washington and I will be 9 votes short. Becoming Buddhist won’t help, since a tie in relations would lead to an abstention. I’ll pass Free Religion and I will win the next election, in 4 turns”.
What a difference!

Following WastinTime advice, I won’t tell my victory date. Anyway, it is not really competitive. The affair between Fred and Wash cost me 4 turns. Slow AI research cost me 12 turns. Trading for both Engineering and GunPowder cost me 4 turns, since the free GS became almost useless. Playing in weekdays (multiple short sessions, lack of consistency, stupid mistakes due to tiredness) instead of weekends cost me 6 turns (I resisted Monday and Tuesday, but my hands trembled so bad on Wednesday that I simply had to play).

I guess the winner will have a sub 1000AD date. I will tell no names, but both Russian citizens and wild black beasts have good chances. ;)

First attempted bombed. Got beat to the UN by at least 50 turns from what I can tell, despite having 3 floodplains and 3 gold, using one city challenge rules as Vicky. Got beat to Oracle and Liberalism. I conclude I'll have to forget them and just go after the techs I need.

I think the OCC robbed me of any chance at winning this one. Hrm. I'll have to try again. Maybe using Warlords this time, Vicky again (Imperialistic and Financial, lets me at least get some more settlers up and running faster. I think 5 cities would be optimal.

Edit: so much for Warlords Vicky. *wry grin* Should've known that wouldn't have worked. Still got crowded out. Eh. I'll wait for the next Major in the hopes it's a tad easier to handle than this one. :)

1) I skipped oracle right away, liberalism is nice but not must to win same with physics (all help though)
2) You need lots of food squares (very meny floods or few food resources) to get population over 16. I think gold is bad, it wont give food. Last game i settled on one gold and mined next when happiness capped (gold city gives 2 2 3 compared to hill 2 2 1 or any other 2 1 1)
3) OCC is very good, you dont have to waste time on growing, it really slows you down
4) I think vanilla is better as more opps have good favourite civic & you dont need math to get cs
5) For one failed game you have just tried to see how it works, go for few more and youll see... Come on you cant expect to win with new strategy on one game. Took me about 10 to get it right, always something bashed. Its all about starting location though. Get that 3gems start!!
6) For easier opps pick frederic, hatty, roos, mansa, wash, eliz, maybe cyrus but its not that good. Gandhi & asoka will try to beat you on mass media others wont. Aim to make hatty your opp and youll win surely if you get MM.

-Dracandross

gold city gives 2 2 3

Riverside plains hill gold city, to be precise. A general rule is city tile gives food = max(2; bare tile), hammers = max(1; bare tile), commerce = max(1; bare tile), where bare tile means the relevant yield from the tile the city is located on without any improvements or terrain features (forest, jungke, flood plains, fallout).

My first try went well. I tried a new kind of start -- coastal with 2 Clams. I started the game by building a workboat instead of a worker (I think it was better that way.) I had a few too many water squares and not enough towns. I had 2 gems, but they were on hills. Then stone and banana. My start was a little slower because of the workboat, but I still managed Oxford in 40 BC. It think the shortage of towns made my endgame slower.

The 1190 AD quick speed high score will be beaten, but I'll be shocked if someone breaks 1000 AD as jesusin predicts.

Tried again, forsaking the Oracle and Liberalism. Missed Mass Media (and the UN) by 2 turns to Roosevelt (Damn him!). At least it was an educational game. Used Vicky, 6 floodplains, a gold, corn and wheat. Didn't do too shoddy.

I think I'm missing something on the AI's voting behavior. In my current game, Washington is my opponent, and Fred is at +10 (11-1) to him, while at +13 (no negatives) to me. Friendly to both of us, for a long time already. Yet, he consistently votes for Washington!
Can anyone tell me the reason for this? What else is important, other than attitude?

What else is important, other than attitude?

Nothing else is important - but the visible attitude is just about half of what you get :p - have a look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=204328) for a complete list - basically you can only definitely calculate the AI relations to you (using visible information and invisible as defined in the AILeaderheadInfo.xml), in AI vs. AI relations there is an additional random factor which can account for +/- 3 so you can never be absolutely sure...

Doh... Managed to build UN in 1232AD but only got 309/455 votes... *FINALLY* swung them around to vote me to victory in 1472AD... The leading AI (too big of a lead for me to help another pass him) had +17 and +12 with 2 other AIs and I had really bad relations with the +12 guy, had to swing the +17. Oh well, I'm sure I can go under 1200AD now, just a matter of time...

Under 1200 AD is not as easy as you may think. I just played another good run with no big mistakes. I did beat the current high score table of 1190 AD, but I don't see going below 1100 AD. I did Liz again. I tried Vicky earlier, but I don't think she's working for me. It would help a lot of you could get your hands on wheat, corn and rice. I only had corn, banana this game and traded for cow, sheep.

Here's a little trick that helps me get wheat occasionally...
If you have an extra resource (like 2 gems). It's tempting to trade it, but if you can hold off, it might pay off. This way when they hook up a 2nd wheat, they might come to you and ask for the gems. They'll never come to you if you don't have an extra resource they want. So unless you check the trade screen every turn, they'll probably trade it away to someone else.

Good tip... I know 1200AD is not easy to beat on OCC, but I'm not playing OCC. Not that it will be easy my way either, but I basically had a 1250ish win last game, I was 1 AI short of winning the vote...

Great! I was hoping someone would play non-OCC. I think it might have a chance to win but I wasn't sure anyone was even trying.

So, Elizabeth would probably be optimal for a multiple city strategy as well, but it is *very* hard to expand to 6 cities necessary for Oxford prior to the AI claiming all of the land. I've had the best luck thus far with Huayna and an early Quechua rush followed by a strong CE... I think Elizabeth may be able to beat my Huayna times even w/o Oxford, but if you can manage to claim 6 cities with her life would be good. It is very hard to play a map large enough to do this w/o the AI completely running away with techs due to having a lot of land.

So I finally got a victory in this using Elizabeth in 1568 :scan: (after losing twice by a couple votes because someone buddied up to another civ and I could not do anything about it :mad: ... and of course multiple times because I couldn't build the UN)

Well, managed to discover Mass Media in 1130AD, but couldn't get the UN built until 1200something, and one of my friends ended up being my competitor and I didn't have enough weight to throw around to change that... Couldn't swing a vote. Getting close to going sub 1200, but not quite there yet.

So I finally got a victory in this using Elizabeth in 1568 :scan:

grats! i'm still scared to try, after mansa's generosity my first time through. i suppose it's odd, him being nice frightened me away.

Doh managed to get MM around 1150 or so but I failed 2 engineer, lead to score of 1304 which was worse than one before. Damn! I mean 2 times failed, that really hurt. I had very decent spot. 2 gems, wheat, copper, banana on cross and outside pigs and rice too. No stone though. Played with mansa so i had religion on as they asked for it. Gotta give yet another run later and hope that engineer kicks in. Un was about 35 rounds as I skipped 3rd engineer (like never in time even with pacifism) try and went for iron works and traded for iron&coal

-Dracandross

tried 4 times, that's enough for me. diety is way too hard. i don't know how you guys trade with them. it's only early on that i have an advantage over anyone, and then as soon as i trade something to one person, everyone else disdains it. "what, did you get that off the discount rack? come back later when you have something real." i'm not used to that. i'll research stuff a bit myself to be able to trade/buy it from them and that helps, but i just can't get any value out of what i have, they're so stingy.

the first 2 times i quit when i thought it was hopeless, the first time really early on. the 3rd time things were a combination of hopeless (last to liberalism, last to physics) but kinda going better than i'd predicted, and i at least researched MM before they launched. then mansa built the UN 2 turns before i'd be done with it. i didn't have democracy so i couldn't buy it. that was frustrating, i'd never thought i could win it but then i got so close! i'd seen that he'd not trade MM since "he had his reasons" but i'd been hoping his spaceship would distract him. not so bad i suppose for being last to liberalism AND to physics haha, but still nowhere closer to QM than i was before.

i never realized the spaceship parts actually sound like they're coming off an assembly line until this case when i heard them, turn after turn, and my turns were just hit enter. that game actually crashed the turn he built it, i never even got the message that i couldn't complete work on it, and i didn't have the heart to load the autosave to see when i'd actually be defeated.

decided i'd try one more time, and liz decides to declare war on me while i'm researching CoL. huh??? she started way south of me, but nobody was in between and she expanded north and i guess she thought York ought to be her town and not mine. i had no trouble with any of them being mean before. but they are too smart for me, and stingy. with exceptions to the stingy ... like when hatty gives me gunpowder and then thanks me for taking it as tho it was a normal trade. yeah sure sweetie, any time!

In my first attempt at this gauntlet, Gandi built the UN 1460.

I was quite pleased since I was "quite close", researching Radio at the time (with a GE in reserve for the UN).

(I should also add that I´ve never yet won on Diety - this was my fifth try in total).

Hopefully - wife and kids permitting - I´ll be able to have another try on Monday before submissions close.

I wondered if someone could give me some advice on which Civ to play, and which Civs to play against.

(In my first attempt I played Vickie against Cyrus, Gandhi, Frederick, Hatty, Mansa Musa, and Roosevelt).

If you are playing OCC, you should probably use Elizabeth. Your competitors look good, except I'd probably use Washington or Saladin instead of Gandhi as he likes to beat you to the UN - as you found out.

well i can't give you any advice on how to play obviously, but i can tell you what i did as far as how to get ideas who to play and who to play against. i went to the HoF tables to see the current top 10 games (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php?show=cond&difficulty=Deity&pubID=30&mapSize=Standard&speed=Epic&submit=Go) that would meet this gauntlet. they all happen to be new entries, whaddya know ;) of course they used a mix of different people, but it was interesting to see who they used, and to read the logs to see when then they discovered various things. just an idea. i i even downloaded the saves to peek at their cities ended up, i found it interesting. i haven't been able to use this knowledge effectively myself, but hey.

good luck!!!

The game hasn't been accepted yet, but I played it in one session so I hope it meets criteria. After my snafu last week though, we'll see. ;)

The only reason I even came remotely close to winning this gauntlet is because I read all of WastinTime's advice about four times, plus all the great info the posters in his thread and this one gave.
Here's my advice after at least 8 come close but just not enough games.
I would first of all run MapFinder every available minute til Monday.
Go for the riverside grassland gems. Can't beat em.
I kept stumbling by building UN but not have been running US early enough to get the +7. So get Democracy through trades ASAP.

I would also suggest going with Liz and not Vicky. I just won a slow game in 1616, after many many close votes. But I had five coastal tiles total with two clams. With a fish just outside the BFC and a harbor that is +4 health right there, and you get your engineer worry free before Oxford because of the Philosophical trait. Again none of these thoughts are original.
Another thing I noticed is that if you click on writing it takes you through Hunting and AnimHusb which is usually 3 more turns than Wheel>Pottery which gives you cottages right away. My two cents might be somewhere in there.

Oh yeah! Ask around for Defensive Pacts as soon as possible. You'll be suprised when they accept!

How are you avoiding the "You signed a defensive pact with my rivals" negatives? I never sign pacts in Diplomatic games unless I really need someones vote and the other voters are well beyond what I need to get their votes... Maybe I am missing something. Do the AIs have to be enemies to give you that negative?

How are you avoiding the "You signed a defensive pact with my rivals" negatives?

That's a good point and probably shouldn't have said anything as I got sooo lucky to even win my game. I had 7 opponents, lesse: Asoka, Gandhi, Frederick, Mansa, Washington, Roosevelt, and Peter. Everyone hated Peter and kept asking me to break my deals which I couldn't cause he was right to the North and would have walked right over me.

So I had -1 or -2 with most people for not stopping trading, but around +6 overall. But then I got lucky and Peter declared war on the tech leader at the time, Gandhi. Figuring Peter was tied up I accepted the next demand to stop trading with Peter. It was about here I signed Defensive Pacts with Asoka, Fred, Gandhi, Washington, and Roosevelt. This eventually turned Mansa against me as soon as Peter was kaput, but Mansa had even less points that I did at the time.

Before that though, Washington joined in the war and sent about 20 Calvary North through my lands to get Peter. Then as everyone else dogpiled on I even declared war on Peter to get Mutual Military Stuggle.

It then took two rounds of Fredrick being Chairman and electing all the civics to get most of the world into Free Religion which then put me at the top of most people's list. I just had to give Gandhi some gems and sugar which my culture overtook as Washington tore through Russia to my North.

Two or three World Leader votes called by me and I was in.

I have only tried once, and didn't win, so I don't have an entry for this gauntlet. However, in that game, it seemed that you only get DP negatives with those civs you don't have a DP with, too. So I got around them by signing with everyone.

How are you avoiding the "You signed a defensive pact with my rivals" negatives? I never sign pacts in Diplomatic games unless I really need someones vote and the other voters are well beyond what I need to get their votes... Maybe I am missing something. Do the AIs have to be enemies to give you that negative?

In my very limited experience with DPs, nobody is angry when I get my first DP. Then, when I sign the second, everybody else gets a -1.
My experience is limited to games where everybody is everybody's friend, though.

You just have to make sure that you sign DPs in an order which will allow you to sign with everyone - this makes the DP penalty disappear - obviously you don't need to bother doing this with your opponent in the vote...

Can you elaborate on that ori? Not sure how you would ensure an order that allows signing with all.

So I've been alternating between OCC and early military rush to keep things interesting... I've had some horrible luck with both recently...

OCC: I had a 4 gold start so I settled on one of them which was on top of a plains hill... This turbo boosted my early tech rate and I had alphabet around 2200 BC. Oddly, though I got CoL somewhere around 1800BC, I wasn't first. Someone must have slingshotted. But from here out I was just plain flying - I had such a big tech lead that by the time I had education only one person had research philosophy and he wouldn't trade so I had to do it myself. Then I got liberalism before anyone else even had paper (around 400BC) and I took Astro. Nobody had researched PPress yet so I had to do that on my own as well. By this time, all of the extra techs I had to research were catching up to me and I was just about even with the other games I had played for tech rate. Unfortunately aside from the 3 gold tiles my land was pretty poor for research so I ended up being well behind my best games by the time I got to Mass Media. Oh well, I learned that if I have that big of a lead I shouldn't worry about liberalism race and I should gift more techs.

Military (6+ cities): So I put an early quechua rush on GW and removed him from the game around 2600BC. This left me with 3 good cities as I razed one of his crummy ones and I attacked an archer/settler to get the worker rather then letting him found another. This was by far my best start ever. I took a detour through mining (due to 3 gems near capital) before doing the normal Wheel->Pottery->Writing->Alpha, and I still managed alphabet before 2200BC. Normally in these multiple city games my finances become a problem early and I don't get alphabet till about 1200-1500BC. So not only did I already have 3 great cities (would turn to 7 by 1800BC), but I was ahead of my normal tech pace on even OCC games. The crazy thing was, here it was 1800ish BC, and Fredrick already had philosophy. I was about 10 turns out from Civil Service. I had good relations with everyone but Fredrick who just happened to have been friends with GW and just happened to be by far the tech leader and just happened to share a border with me... Uh oh, he declared war a few turns later and my best start ever was over.

So what I've learned is that in OCC you not only need a good start but you need land that will support a good finish. In fact with the cost of the later techs the good finish will be more important. I also learned that a good multi city game will absolutely destroy these OCC times. I was on pace to get Civil Service around 1200-1300BC and I was already pushing ~100 beakers at 1800BC with a sustainable 60% science rate. I think 800AD is possible. The downside of a multi city game is that only about 1 in 10 starts gets you a decent city base, and only about 1 in 10 of these results in good relations with the majority of the AI... You'll probably literally have to play several hundred starts to get the one you need to go sub 1000AD.

Whelp, back at it, hope some of this is helpful!

Can you elaborate on that ori? Not sure how you would ensure an order that allows signing with all.

well - if all are willing to sign a DP with you you need to look at the attitude modifiers, say A, B, C, D have attitude modifiers of 10, 11, 12, 15 with you I would sign treaties in that order since they will not fall below their threshold (usually pleased, i.e. you must maintain friendly relations) when you sign in that order. If you do D, C, B then most likely A will not sign because he already has -2 or -3 for DPs with rivals...

That makes sense. Thank you for the tip!

I hope if I launch MF right now it won't be too late :lol: RL has really got in the way.

I've made it over a week without playing. I think I broke the addiction. I doubt I'll try this one again. Good luck. I'm putting the CD away.

Can you elaborate on that ori? Not sure how you would ensure an order that allows signing with all.

Usually you need somewhat +8 to sign def pact. That means start with one that has lowest +score. Everyone else will get -1. But their scores are +8 even after that move. Then get second lowest. Now rest have -2 but still over +8. Rinse and repeat. Actually you dont need to sign pacts with everyone. Just make sure you have better attitude than your opp has. If you manage to get def pact with one you have lowest attitude you can have them all. Def pact is easiest way to pull you to victory concerning votes at least.

-Dracandross

Deciding to switch from Gandhi to Saladin as one of the opponents seems to have done the trick vis-a-vis getting the UN built. (Thanks to uwsublime for that).

In my second attempt, the UN wasn´t built until 1700 AD - unfortunately, not by me though. This was largely due to a poor choice of start location which meant that I wasn´t really in with a realistic shout.

In my third attempt, I did manage to get the UN built around 1589. Unfortunately, I wasn´t able to secure the diplomatic victory vote. My usual "ostrich" diplomatic strategy of a) not having a religion and b) not trading with any one so as to avoid messages of the type "-4 I´m going to punch your lights out because you are trading with that evil so-and-so x" doesn´t really work on Diety.

Clearly I should have paid more attention to the advice about managing relations. Wife, kids, and (now) boss permitting, I´m going to try to squeeze in one last go today. (I originally thought the deadline was 6th March, but my wife, kids and boss were all dismayed to learn that it was the 9th!)

(I originally thought the deadline was 6th March, but my wife, kids and boss were all dismayed to learn that it was the 9th!)
if there was a subcategory in HoF for "phrase that made me giggle the most" you would definitely be in the running! i look forward to seeing all of the results.

good luck to all! my attempts at this gauntlet have had an odd side-effect ... i am (as i expected) more frightened of deity than ever, but have a (temporary?) addiction to OCC. :hmm:

Tried 2 times, first Asoka beaten me to Liber, second I was first at Liber and Physics, but due to low resources could get nothing for trade, so health cut me at 11-12 pop. In 750AD I was half through Electricity and had good relations with all support targets, but won't be able to beat 1200, I fear, so will spend time more productively - sleeping. Maybe look at it again next day. Pity, cuz this competition has participation and skill level unusual for high-level Majors.

P.S.: reading your notes I think maybe I shouldn't have started with just 1 gold and 1 rice.

I lied. As I was putting away the CD, I got an idea I wanted to try out...

770 AD victory!

Too bad I figured out the correct plan on the last day of the gauntlet. No time to optimize. It was, of course, a multi-city approach. I'm sad that OCC was not the way to go, and I'm sorry for leading everyone down the wrong path. But isn't OCC fun! If anyone is still trying OCC, here's my biggest (secret?) tip:

You don't need to struggle or pray for a Great Engineer. I avoid this by simply buying the UN in 1 turn. It takes about 16,000 - 17,000 gold. It's sometimes a close call, but I usually get the cash in time.

My 770 AD was accepted, but I don't see it on the gauntlet table. I see my other score so I am logged in.

My 770 AD was accepted, but I don't see it on the gauntlet table. I see my other score so I am logged in.
:confused: Let me look into that real quick.

@WT: That wasn't a glitch, the submission came in after the technical cutoff. The actual cutoff is whenever I get around to updating, at which point I refresh the Gauntlet clock.

I went ahead and refreshed it tonight it though and saw your submission in there.

I managed to squeeze in two last attempts before what I thought was the cut-off, only to discover that submissions have closed! I thought the cut-off was midnight at the international date line?

Anyhow, not that it matters. My fourth and fifth attempts ended in defeat as well.

In both games I managed to build the UN, but I could never swing the vote my way.

It was always the case that I needed all the other civs (bar my rival) to vote for me; but it was always the case that someone was having a grump because I had traded with their worst enemies. If I tried to remedy this, their "worst enemy" would go all stroppy.

In both cases Saladin seemed to be the root of the problem. I wonder if Washington wouldn´t have been a better choice after all, since he can be swung by the US civic?

I've never gotten a "traded with enemy" negative. I also never use Saladin and usually use Washington.

In my last game I declared war on Asoka. Frederick and Elizabeth were the only two that kept the "you declared war on our friend" negative the whole game. Everyone else forgot quickly. Anyone know the formula for that?

RE: cut-off
I recall the cut-off times were usually sometime the day after. It was surprising to see anything today before midnight. Normally I'd squeeze in a few before noon tomorrow.

I always refresh the cutoff when I update, so the last minute submissions get included.

The Gauntlet has concluded:
Congratulations to the victors:
Rank Player Date Score
1 WastinTime 770 AD 99008
2 Bram 1160 AD 48110
3 jesusin 1208 AD 40940
4 AAA 1232 AD 65342
5 Dracandross 1256 AD 43392
6 uwsublime 1304 AD 80440
7 Planitia 1352 AD 33749
8 ori 1448 AD 47356
9 Ljdjr 1616 AD 22975
10 archphoenix 1628 AD 21363
11 azylic 1820 AD 13377

The 1190 AD quick speed high score will be beaten, but I'll be shocked if someone breaks 1000 AD as jesusin predicts.

I am not shocked at all. Congratulations, WastinTime! I hope you disclose your secret sometime.

Congratulations to all victors too, you don't get a Deity victory every day!

Outstanding! Congrats!

WT: I was pretty sure 800AD could be obtained with Huayna. I haven't had time to give it a lot of goes, but looks like you made it! I'm guessing you are handling the mid game much better then I am. I'm able to get really great starts but somehow I can't keep my economy high enough to have a good mid game due to the multi-city (very early) start. Congrats on a great time - I knew OCC wouldn't be the optimal strategy the first time I tried w/o checking that box. Glad I wasn't the only one trying it.

I am not shocked at all. Congratulations, WastinTime! I hope you disclose your secret sometime.

I'd still be shocked if someone broke 1000 with OCC--which is what I was referring to. Multi-city is a whole different game. I'm not sure I have the secrets all figured out yet. I only tried one game. I'll do a writeup that walks through it and post the link here.

The short version is:
Leader: Capac
High Inland Sea, 7 opponents.
Captured only 2 cities.
Built 3 settlers (so 6 cities total)
Chop out the libs/Univ's/Oxford by around 250 BC. I was surprised that I could get Oxford before OCC does. It was obvious by then that this finish date would blow away OCC.

...Chop out the libs/Univ's/Oxford by around 250 BC...

This is interesting. Do you ever use the whip?

This is interesting. Do you ever use the whip?

Many people praise the whip. I've tried it a few times in the past, but cannot justify it most of the time. I can never seem to sacrifice population for a few hammers. Certainly not on the OCC games. I also don't like to waste a turn in anarchy. On Epic speed, you can't just throw in slavery for free. It costs a turn. When I played a spiritual leader on minor gauntlet 15, I used the whip.

I lied. As I was putting away the CD, I got an idea I wanted to try out...

770 AD victory!

Too bad I figured out the correct plan on the last day of the gauntlet. No time to optimize. It was, of course, a multi-city approach. I'm sad that OCC was not the way to go, and I'm sorry for leading everyone down the wrong path. But isn't OCC fun!


Well that was clear, at least for me. But at least I suck at inca rush. And its alot harder as theres more chances to get messed up even with decent start. Besides I like peaceful strats. I tried one on lords Vicy for extrafast settlers. Got 6 cities but start loc wasnt too good. Besides I think that you cant incarush on quick so easily.

Congrats! (and eww seems like Ive gotta play just quick to avoid competition at incarush on deity. Its just as boring as future spaceraces that you need inca to do decent deity scores. Next highdif gautlets should have civ any non-inca on preq even if incas are not on opp list.)

-Dracandross

I only took 2 cities with Capac. I woulda been fine with just 1 captured city. Maybe even better since the 2nd city was pretty far away and expensive to keep. You ought to be able to do that with any leader. If Capac weren't Financial, I'd definitely pick another leader. Sadly they put the only trait that really matters (Fin) with +100% against archer.

I only took 2 cities with Capac. I woulda been fine with just 1 captured city. Maybe even better since the 2nd city was pretty far away and expensive to keep. You ought to be able to do that with any leader. If Capac weren't Financial, I'd definitely pick another leader. Sadly they put the only trait that really matters (Fin) with +100% against archer.

Oh, I reaally thought that you have to finish that war than to keep one propable aggressor near you. Noticed afterwards that you took only 2 cities. (But that coulda been both of its cities anyway). When going inca wouldnt few more cities be possible & profitable? And yes if you just take city or two you can do it with any civ but it might take some reloads (eww). But that would surely lead to better time as aggr isnt very useful with diplowin with votes.

-Dracandross

War only gives you a -3. By the end I almost had him voting for me!

More cities might be better later in the game, but distant cities can really hurt before currency. I had already ended my war by then.