GOTM 15 Final Spoiler

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Well - how did you find deity? I downloaded the save, and there it was!?

The submission list is looking interesting already - a good number of entries, and its great to see that the difficulty hasn't put people off submitting. Great stuff!

So - what have you learned? What went well, and what went not-so-well?

FIRST! ME! A complete rookie, almost, in GOTMs... :crazyeye: :king: :goodjob:

Ok. At 500AD I had just failed to take over a barb city with cats and promoted axes. Grr. By the time more troops arrived, the barbs had longbows. The troops pull back to save on maintenance costs. Not much later Egypt takes the city.

Hatty is spamming me with confucian missionaries, and I convert so I'll have her on my side. Perhaps, with some crazy luck I could still win a diplomatic if I go all out towards the UN. At the same time I get to be a buddy to Cyrus, the other Kung-fu fan.

Happiness a little later in the game. Peter, the lousy Russian hound, is not very far in front of me in points! I actually manage to tech trade with him and lo and behold, I pass him in points! :lol:

Edit: Around this time I also finally started getting my economy into shape (cottages + trade routes) and needed only 10% taxes. However, I needed 20% culture to keep my cities happy, but 70% science I considered ok for my first deity game. Heck, I was happy to still be around!

Hatty, Cyrus and I sign defensive pacts and I can stop worrying about attackers. Hatty is no.1 in points and Cyrus' waters are dotted with destoyers and battleships. Gandhi doesn't like me much at first (darn Buddhist) and Tokugawa dislikes me too (not a people person, that guy.) Roosevelt's not sure about me, but in the end I have a defensive pact with him, too.

Since Stonehenge, I haven't been able to even get a crack at a single World Wonder... The AI give me techs every now and then and I'm just chugging along, a tolerated pet. Still, that's better than Toku's fate. His social skills land him in a war with the Persian's and the Americans. I'm invited along and say yes, but never actually had time to put a grenadier on a galleon before the Allied tanks had killed Toku off. I did, however, manage to found a city on one of the tiny islands off the first continent.

Then, Hatty had built the UN, finally crushing my unrealistic dreams of victory, but surprise, surprise, before she is voted president of the world, Cyrus flies off to space. Persia is victorious in 1760AD.

If I can figure out how, I'll post some grabbed pictures of my empire, without showing modern resources, of course.

I found the hardest thing about deity was the technological leap the AI got as well as the crazy rate of expansion. As a player who only has time to play whenever his wife is either at the gym (and son is sleeping) or breastfeeding, it was hard to cope with. However, my strategy: staying alive, worked to perfection. This was also the first time I tried to use diplomacy to my advantage, switching religion to appease a powerful neighbor etc.

I mostly learned about empire management, as I played the whole game without fighting a war against anyone (The Japanese war was just a formality, none of 'our boys' were put in harms way). Towards the end I started seeing how all the different buildings, trade routes and everything worked together to make the CIV economy. I only wish I had read Sulla's playthrough before the game, instead of just after. Good stuff!

After early exploration I decided to go cultural thinking it was the only way to win. I have been competitive on deity with conquest/domination/space race but that didn’t seem possible with our isolation. I’ve only been successful by quickly assimilating a near by civ (or two), getting on par with the tech/building pace. Egypt seemed defeatable (with our UU) but was way too far away to assimilate.

I should have realized it would be impossible without the Pyramids. I tried 4 times but no dice. If someone does win a cultural victory I will be very interested to learn how.

Finally after racking my brain it dawned on me last night that diplomatic has to be the way to go. The strategy goes as follows (1) early rush on Egypt; (2) bee line to Forbidden Palace and assimilate as much of continent as possible; (3) focus on building population to be in the UN vote.

Anyway that’s what I’ll be trying today.

My only goal was to survive as long as I could. I was just to far behind on tech and power to have any chance.

I managed to stay peaceful (except for a couple of phony wars with Japan), up until about 1400AD. The Russians attacked sending Galleons and Frigates over from the other continent. I thought this would mean the end but Russia was much weaker than the others and only ever sent one stack over which I eliminated quickly. I managed to sue for peace since somehow he did not have Nationalism.

Gandhi was the next to attack in about 1600AD. I have never seen him so mad. The little pacifist was frothing, I tell you!

And he was strong. He sent a stack of Cavalry and Infantry over and I somehow managed to miss seeing them land next to my gold city. Graphic bug? Or just lack of sleep? Who knows.

Anyway he took that city but I was somehow able to eliminate this stack as well using Knights and Catapults. He then kept starving my coastal cities (all but one of my five remaining cities were coastal) for a looong time without any more troops landing and I thought I was going to survive this one as well. This was not to be. He landed Tanks and Artillery this time. I was defending with Musketmen, Catapults and the odd Cavalry. Obviously I didn't stand a chance but I managed to drag the war out quite a bit and he lost a fair number of Tanks. I even had one full strength Tank lose to a Pikeman :lol:

Anyway, Conquest loss in 1667AD. Wasn't expecting much more. I should have been more aggressive in the early game and built a stronger power base, but I just did not feel confident at this level.

Spaceship loss in the mid-1700s.

I was able to squeeze in nine cities, but could never get a third religion to spread to me. I was able to crank up the culture, but the rate wasn't high enough. I think 100 turns more might have been enough. There was almost no chance to build the pyramids. My first settler headed straight to the stone only to find a barb city. When I had sufficient forces to take the city, Hatty beat me to it. The pyramids were already built.

It was fun to see the culture push back into Hatty's territory. My GP farm was languishing because of Hatty's culture into me. It wasn't a good placement of the GP city, and I didn't maange well, either. That is the one ascpect of my game that I need to work on: farming GPs.

There were no wars and pretty much everyone liked me. I certainly was not a powerhouse. Still, I finished ahead of two other Civs in the final point rankings. Its something.

Still, it was more fun than expected. I've taken a perminent leap to emperor level for my regular games. I'm certainly in the bottom percentiles of that level.

I'm already looking forward to the next GOTM.

First victory on Deity!

1894 base point worked out as 38500.

Diplomacy:
Stayed good friends with everybody but Peter and Toku (never traded anything with either of them) and managed to start one war between Toku and Cyrus (which led to the assililation of Toku). Peter was taken out by Gandi.

Tech:
Went pacifism as soon as Nation Epic was finished (in MP working sheep and fish SE of Cuzco) and farmed GS to keep up in tech. Actually managed to do some trading as GS and towns started to do their work. Went in a general line toward Liberalism (missing to Hatty with 6 turns) and later Mass Media. Once I had one tech in I traded the precondition tech for whatever it could give me (for the trade relation point if nothing else).

Economy:
Traded as much resourses as possible for cash (thanks for the tip in the pre discussion, I will check who it was and credit how credit should). I think this was the key to keep up with the AI. And of course having no troops except one garnison per city helped too.

War:
A lot of phony with Peter and Toku. Actually took one Toku city he had placed on our continent with 3 swordmen used to grab barb cities up the south west coast. Gifted it to Hatty as soon as possible.

The Victory:
I timed ironworks in the Byro boosted Cuzco the turned after Electricity and started on UN (raze two underdeveloped cottages in favor of work shops) and then sold Electricity for as much cash as possible (generated about 7000). Revolting to US and going 0% science ment I could buy UN about 10 turns after Mass Media came in. Hatty was my rival (Gandi was ahead in score but not in pop), Peter and Toku are dead. Cyrus insisted on Hatty so I revolted to Free Religion (was still hindu to please Hatty). Did not help as he insisted on Hatty again. But at this point Gandi was friendly enough (civic + did the trick) so that I could make a DP with Cyrus without Gandi dropping to pleased. To increase it futher I gifter 50 golds a turn to Cyrus. This did the trick and gave me a victory in 1664.

What an unbelievable previous reply:eek:

So: Retired 350AD with 476 points and without good hope.

I didn't even think to try quechua rush, because my four random test games gave no positive results with those tactics. My plan was to get the best sites for my starting cities, and emphasize on gold harvesting for a good weaponed army. My first unlucky settler was killed by barbs. But how much XP I've got of those anti-barbarian ops.
When I met Hatty I had ca. 7 Swordsman, 4 Quechua (one of them Medic) in a stack. I moved them to friendly before Egyptians. Ohh yeahh! They made a rush. One captured, and five razed egiptian cities was a result. But that was all. A lot of Hatty's Horse Archers, War Charriots, Swordsmen made me capitulate. I lost out of my attention the need in Spearers, so I lost much time and population to correct my mistake.
I had only five cities (one captured).
Actually I didn't like this deity level game. The difficulty seems to be too irrational. Much depends on luck than on expirience. Greetings to all who had smth. good of this game.

I thought long and hard about whether to play challenger. I was tempted since I was keen to play a "true" Deity game without bonuses. In the end, sanity prevailed: I´ve only tried Diety three times before (for HOF) and lost each time. So I went for Contender, and managed to chalk up a fourth Deity defeat. I guess that justified going with Contender. On the other, what would I have lost by going with Challenger?

The other big decision before the game was whether to go for a Quecha Rush. Now I´m a builder by nature, and have only tried the Quecha rush once before (for a HOF game). But reading the pre-game discussion, this did seem to be the way to go, so I decided to give it a try.

The key turn was 3340 BC. After a lot of wandering around, I still hadn´t encountered anyone and was beginning to think that I´d be better off abandoning the idea. My twice promoted first Quecha then stepped on a goody hut... spawning six barbarian warriors! He fended off a couple, before going down. At this point I decided to abandon the Quecha rush and go for my usual settler development. As it happened though, the Quechas that I did build proved to be very effective fog-busters, seeing of Barbarian Archer all-comers for many millenia. So the decision to build lots of Quechas at the outset was probably valid, though for a different reason.

After this, I decided to go for my normal Cultural win.

I managed to get six cities up and running quite quickly. However, though I had a one good cultural city and one good GA farm, the two other cultural cities were a bit mediocre, and I didn´t have anywhere else with any production to speak of to produce an army for defence. Based on past experience, I didn´t think this would be good enough to get a quick enough cultural win. Now as it happens, the AI-wins that people have been reporting aren´t that exceptional (in comparison to what I´ve seen in my HOF games). Had I stuck at six cities I might have been OK. However, I decided to try and grab a couple more better sites for the cultural cities.

To cut a long story short, I ended up with 11 cities (don´t ask), and got sucked into a very protracted cultural border war with Hatty on a very long front. This just distracted me from a proper cultural win strategy. In the end, my three cultural cities were the ones that I started off in the first place.

By 1400 AD I knew that the game was up. I played out the defeat (to see how it panned out and so that I could submit a legitimate game). The cultural boundary dispute with Hatty was actually quite absorbing. I had four cities teetering around the 50% ownership mark, and Hatty had two. For about 1000 years, these cities fluctuated between 49% and 53%, but in all this time there was only one rebellion (in one of my cities) and none actually flipped, though I had to work extremely hard building temples, libraries etc to shore up my cultural influence.

In the end, this was a slightly frustrating game for me. I think I could have done better, and I´m looking forward to having another shot at Diety (though I´ll happily wait another month or two!)

It's good to see one victory posted above, though mine was never going to be, and my goal was to survive and have any fun I could find along the way - quechua rush if feasable, knocking over barbarians, whatever came.

In the end, Contender Spaceship loss to Roosevelt 1718AD adjusted score 2762.

I went BW early then to alphabet to get early trades but Hatty wasn't trading. So much for that. Early exploration showed there wasn't going to be any joy with quechua rushes either. I had some fun with barbarian cities though, capturing 3 of them with axes and horse archers until suddenly barbarian archers turned into barbarian longbowmen around 500AD before I got feudalism myself. Then Hatty took over the barbarian crunching on our continent with her maces and knights.

Gandhi was a terror. He never attacked me, but he wiped Peter out, conquering the entire southern continent, and the replay file showed he really rolled over Peter without slowing too much. I've never seen an AI crunch an enemy so fast like that before. Then I've never played Diety before either.

I did fairly well surviving, being on good terms with most people, though Tokugawa was his usual. Sharing Hinduism with Hatty (which she founded) was also good for realtions.

Gandhi built the UN and was SG, putting through lots of resolutions - excpet diplomatic. Cyrus was the first to build the Apollo Program in 1556 followed by Hatty and Roosevelt in 1583. Gandhi built it in 1601.

After the early no trading from Hatty I knew I'd never be in the tech hunt, nor be a military force except against barbarians, and I just watched to see who would win, and just did my best.

Now I hope to learn a bit more from what the experts say here!

jesusin, challenger, goal: cultural victory, result: spaceship loss 1750AD.

This is the CIV game I have enjoyed the most in my life. I felt like giving up a lot of times, but I persevered and learnt a lot of things in doing so. And all that before reading the spoilers, so much to be learnt yet! After this particular game I will be a better player.

I never thought I would win. However, had I avoided only one of my many mistakes, I would have won a cultural deity victory. I feel bad because I lost, but I feel good because I survived to the end (I was convinced Tokugawa would present my head to my children in a silver plate, but I persevered… ‘Never surrender!’ was my motto of the month).

It has been my first time for a lot of things:
- First time I don’t start Worker or Workboat first.
- First time my capital is not a whipping machine.
- First time I go for CoL before Alphabet.
- First time I fight a defensive war.
- First time Axes and Quechuas survive against dozens of Grenadiers, Cats and Knights.
- First time I lost a legendary city.:(
- First time I used Organized Religion.
Far too many new things tried in a single game, no wonder I lost. Also:
- First GOTM lost.
- First CIV4 game lost since the very first month.

My spoiler is really long. I recommend you to read it anyway, I learnt a lot of things, you could learn a few things too.

First spoiler mistakes

Mistakes:
- I saw the sheep but settled 1N. 2 food resources are necessary for a capital.
- Worker first was the way to go… but I was eager to use Quechuas.
- I fogbusted my second city site only from 1 direction… so barbs settled in the other side in such a way that I couldn’t settle on my preferred tile anymore.
- Third legendary city in a no-hills sea of jungle. It was just ok, but would never be able to produce a cathedral, so…
- Founding cities number 7 and 8 was a mistake. I never founded city 9th, having realized a third cathedral of every religion was not to be built.
- After CoL, I chose to research CS instead of Alphabet, hoping to get it from trades. Big mistake.
- Trained a GS. It should have been another GA. It failed to found Taoism and I lost the race to Liberalism anyway.


Researching

I shared Hatty’s religion to be able to use Pacifism.
Founded cities 7 and 8 and left them alone, so that another religion spread. I got a second religion this way. Toku settled really close to me. I thought about attacking first, but decided to wait and see if his religion spread. His city flipped to me and was razed (no new religion in it).
National Epic in the N Copper city, my GPfarm, everything farms around it.
Since the race to Liberalism was virtually lost, I shouldn’t have kept researching Education, everybody had it so no trading, I should have gone for Nationalism. After that, I was delaying my cathedrals too much, so had to research Music myself. Such a waste of time made that others got to Nationalism first. My next research was Liberalism and I got several trades from it, hadn’t I gotten those trades I would have fallen out of the trade game. Got to trade till banking.



Building: The happy years

In 935AD I had only 2 cathedrals from Hatty’s religion and a single city with a second religion. I planned a 5 turns Slavery+Organized Religion period. It ended up being a 20 turns period, in that time I spread the new religion to all my cities, I built 6 temples and I built 2 Cathedrals. Since I extended the period, whipping the monastery was a mistake.

Before this builderish period I wasn’t expecting to win in less than 200 turns. After those 20 turns, victory was expected in 150 turns, around 1750AD. My calculations didn’t take into account 2nd and 3rd cottage growth, so I had a good chance to win the game. So filling my hands with the blood of the 50 population I whipped in that period was well worth it.

The extension of the whipping period allowed me to research Printing Press without impacting my culture output.



Back to reality

I was cruising towards victory happily. Everybody was at least pleased with me but Gandhi, but he wasn’t going to dow me. Yes, everybody, including my friend Tokugawa. Maybe I shouldn’t have agreed on OB with him.

The thing is I was so little worried that when Hatty offered a Defensive Pact I rejected it without second thoughts. I remember to have said to myself “she’s not going to drag me into a superpower’s war”. Well, this was the final mistake that decided the game.
It is not Deity level which has made me lose the game. It is my mistakes.
Had I had a DP, I would only have had to resist Toku’s first wave and then Hatty’s troops would have taken care of everything.

When Tokugawa dowed I felt like giving up.


The war

When Tokugawa dowed I felt like giving up. 7 galleons full of Cats, knights and Grenadiers landed near my westernmost city, defended by a single Axe. That Axe showed me the way. He took 3 Cats before dying. Toku, in rage, razed the city. Such a heroic example made my brains work again. I was going to resist till Tokugawa was ready to speak to me, and I would offer him 1 city for peace. After that, DP with Hatty. The idea then was to slow Japan’s offensive.

Hatty and Toku wasn’t friends, so they didn’t have an OB agreement. When the first wave approached my second city, I gifted it to Hatty. That way Japanese troops could not come to my core cities, Egypt being in the middle.

I should have done that 2 turns later if that had been possible. That way a GA would have popped. I lost not only that GA, but also another one should have popped before the end of the game in each city. 3 GA lost, I am not winning this game anymore.

In any case, Tokugawa is not stupid. He called the galleons back and traveled west with the rest of the first wave. My city there was already surrounded by Egypt. I resisted a little longer there. Time enough for the galleons to be far enough not to be worth calling back. So after razing my city, Hatty resettled and the first wave was kept stuck in a single tile for more than 30 turns. All of them? No, Egypt border didn’t expand fast enough, so 3 units got to my core cities. New built knights took care of them, although with a bad loses rate.

Each and every turn I would ask Hatty to join the war. She wouldn’t do it. Apparently you can’t trade cities in exchange for a dow. When Toku was ready to talk, he wouldn’t accept any of my cities, so no way to make peace. I felt like giving up but, did I do it? NOOO.

The second wave came from the W, 3 galleons. The plan was to make them impossible to disembark. So I placed a unit in every tile of my W coast and hoped he wouldn’t continue E. The first turn he couldn’t get out of the ships. Well done! No amphibious units in his stack. But the second turn all his units were on my shores. Is Toku cheating?
No. They had killed a worker. So I have learnt that workers can’t be used for a coastal blockade. My dozen units (longbows and knights) run back to my second cultural city and followed the unforgettable Axe example. The next turn I picked some Japanese wounded units and finally I finished the whole stack. Well done! There’s still hope!

The third wave came from the E. My surviving units run towards the capital. It’s a single galleon. I can manage that.,, That’s when Tokugawa decided he couldn’t kill me without cheating…


Tokugawa’s cheating

Do you know what teleportation is? I don’t either. Why on Earth should someone invent such a stupid rule? Well, I know the existence of that rule, so I shouldn’t whine about it. But what happened is just too much to take…

Hatty borders expanded, taking the first wave stack out of their tile. Where do you think they landed? It should have been Tokio or such a friendly tile, shouldn’t it? It could have been a neutral tile in any nearby island. No. It had to be inside my borders, next to my second legendary city, which had just been abandoned by its defenders.

I had revolted to slavery, but to no avail. The next turn I had lost one of my legendary cities. I felt like giving up. I had every reason to give up, Tokugawa’s cheating was the perfect justification. But I didn’t. And that’s how I learnt yet some more new things.

I had two problems. I needed a new legendary city. And I needed to stop this war.
My GPfarm will do, it will be my new legendary city. Ouch, the lost city had 2 cathedrals and 2 bombed GA. Don’t look back! Concentrate on the present! You already have a new cultural city, now, how are you going to put an end to this terrible war? Wipe those tears! Think!

Ok, I am a human, this stupid computer is not going to kill me. I have a plan. Toku and Peter have despised Military Tradition and have preferred to enjoy riflemen. Toku won’t accept my cities for peace, but he might accept techs. 100% research.

If I could have retaken my city, would it have kept its accumulated culture? (I would really appreciate an answer). I can’t know, since Toku razed it.

I kill the 3rd wave near my capital after they have razed 2 small cities. Toku’s troops are too busy razing each and every improvement around the legendary razed city. Have you heard about salt being used in Carthago’s rests? Tokugawa has!

So all that roading around the shore to help my coastal blockade has not been a waste. AI troops will raze those roads rather than go straight to my next core city. While they are busy I pick a couple of unprotected cats. Well done!
Hey, Toku, my friend, if you were going to settle in the zone, shouldn’t you have kept those mature towns?

The same turn Cyrus gifts me Divine Rights, a tech Toku and Peter don’t have, Peter gets Military Tradition. He is going to trade with Toku! I trade DR for the 2 turns left of MT with Peter, I offer both techs to Tokugawa and he accepts!!!! Would he have accepted only one of them? I don’t know.

That very same turn I get DP with Cyrus and Hatty. Cyrus has DP with Roo who has DP with Gandhi, so I imagine an attack on me would start a chain reaction. I am saved. I will see the end of the game, no katana is going to separate my head from my shoulders.

I have resisted 2 centuries of war against overwhelming superior forces. Should I rejoice? 3 cities left, no cathedrals in 2 of them, no satellite cities popping GAs non stop… It’s 1595AD, tanks all around, UN is about to be built, Cyrus has had a thing called Apollo for half a century now… Did I feel like surrendering? Yes. Did I surrender? Of course not.


La donna e mobile. Rebuilding

La donna e mobile. Hatty dows Tokugawa. NOW!!!?? I have been asking her to help me, she was +15 and she wouldn’t and now she does dow, so breaking our DP! Never mind. Roo joins. I join, just for fun, never sent a unit.

She teaches me yet another thing. She had 28gtp available, she wanted my wines. She wouldn’t pay 28 gpt for them, but she agreed to pay 27gpt. That’s good news indeed! I thought that the AI was so stupid that it would pay one million gpt for a useless resource if they had so much money available.

My borders are wide. I resettle 2 cities and Hatty’s city by the wines flips at last. Farms in all of them, they must pop a GA each.

A new religion spreads to one of the new cities. Gandhi is short of votes for a diplo victory, UN forces me into US and Emancipation. No caste system means mercantilism is not useful anymore, I research Economy, revolt to FreeMarket and OR and build/rushbuy missionaries, temples and a Cathedral in the GPfarm. Well done! Well, looking F8 screen is sad, Gandhi has more culture than me, several AIs are 3 parts away from launch.

Finally it is Roo who wins. He had eaten all of Japan cities and that gave him the edge. I was 120 turns away from my cultural victory. Not bad, considering the situation I came from after the war.


Poll: Was this a mistake?

Why am I so stingy?
In the midst of the war, when I killed the second wave, I was paying a lot for unit maintenance. There were 2 GA around. So I decided to bomb them and save 2gpt. They were bombed in the legendary city I lost in the war. Later on, when I was working on a new legendary city, I wish I had kept those GA, so that they wouldn’t have been wasted in a razed city but I could use them now.

The thing is that I wasn’t short of money. 100% culture or 100% research the whole AD years. Filthy rich AIs were paying some 20 gpt for every one of my unnecessary happiness and strategic resources. Even if I had had to go 90% culture for a couple of turns, that wouldn’t have been unbearable. So I feel I went very wrong.

On the other hand, how was I to know that my magnificent second legendary city was to be razed, that I would survive the war anyway and that I would have to start from scratch on another city? The sentence ‘I won’t use my GA yet, just in case I lose one and only one of my cultural cities’ doesn’t sound very convincing, does it?

Poll: If you think I am stingy, please stiff upper lip now. If you think I didn’t go wrong when I used those GA, please dedicate me a warm smile now.


To the GOTM staff: thank you so much for this unforgettable game. I owe you one. Is there something I can do for you?

Contender- spaceship loss to Egypt 1752.

I settled on the hill and built a bunch of quechas thinking I would rush someone. Didn't even find Hat's cities for a long time--decided she was too far away and just settled 6 cities and tried for cultural.

No trading until around 400AD, so despite the good start--I had the 6 cities I wanted I was hurting tech wise but somehow snuck into lib around 700.

My relations were pretty good, but the pleased Roosevelt DOW's me in 1150. 9 units are off my coast--I have one quecha in each coastal city. I quit for the night and consider packing it in--but I am only 3 turns to rifles. Roosevelt takes my city by the silver and I just get rifles in time for an upgrade to save the day. A quick switch to nationalism takes care of the invasion force. Unfortunately the razed city had my second religion which I was just about to get out a missionary.

Toku DOW's me a little while later but I hold him off with rifles--he's last in tech and has similar units--then I get Roosevelt to squash him.

Near the end of the game I blunder badly--Hattie asks me to stop trading with Peter--I refuse thinking she's well along with the ship and won't attack.
WRONG. My empire gets decimated in about 6 turns and I am about a turn away from wipeout when she launches.

Even had I not gotten smashed at the end I was about 20 turns shy of a cultural--I didn't get enough GP.

One of the most enjoyable GOTM's I've played--I find it much more interesting trying to win as oppposed to racing the clock. I really felt my game was live up to the very end so that was exciting.

Not sure if it was the deity level or not but the AI were very aggressive at the end--Gandhi started a war and dropped a bunch of nukes--not something I've seen before.

The quiet and unassuming Incan civilization whiled away its time almost unnoticed by the world. From time to time somebody would forget to pass on by, and would call at the door. We mostly pointed them in the direction of one of our bigger, noisier neighbours – like the Egyptians.

The Incan empire was pretty much mapped out when we last left them at around 500AD. This empire consisted of 6 cities tucked into a corner of the Egyptian continent. The next little while was spent making sure the economy was brought under control – courthouses, markets and stuff.

Around 1000AD, we congratulated ourselves again on reaching another survival milestone. On the other hand, we were slightly alarmed to see that Cyrus had riflemen already. We had just researched Civil Service at the time.

We had already found ourselves the recipient of Egyptian charity, and now Roosevelt stepped up to present us with Printing Press, after we had done all the hard work and were 3 turns away from getting it through our own honest toil. The galling scenario was acted out again a few hundred years later, when Gandhi was the benefactor of Scientific Method, which we would have had in 5.

This second present proved useful in another way, as we found for the first time in ages that we had a tech that someone else lacked. Peter, in this case. In exchange for Sci Method, he filled in a lot of ancient techs that we had missed out.

We got a defensive pact with Hattie – our constant friend – in 1502, and then signed another with Roosevelt in 1580. The only slight shadow over these good relationships was our trading with Peter, which upset Hattie – who couldn’t stand him. We did this again at the end of the 1500s, when we learned Physics and got another stack of ancient techs from him, to Hattie’s annoyance.

As the 1600s began, it all started to wind up to a close. Apollo projects were completed – Cyrus, Gandhi then Roosevelt. Then Cyrus built the UN in 1649, to end our vanishingly feint hopes in that direction. We were still researching Electricity, which would have been followed by Radio and Mass Media.

Hattie was the first secretary of the UN, and was a latecomer to the space race, having completed her Apollo in 1649. She couldn’t get the votes in the UN, but came steaming up like a train in the construction race for the spaceship! Having been so far behind, by 1724 she overtook Roosevelt in the space race and required just one final piece.
We Incans all huddled around our newly developed Radio sets to listen to news of the launch. Amazing turn up! It was Roosevelt who built the final 2 pieces of the American ship in 1738 and launched!!

As must be obvious, we were relegated to a spectating role – and in fact the whole game left me with a strange sense of detachment and lack of involvement. I guess deity level is just too big a thing for me to get my head around at the moment. I’m not in any danger of giving it a close fight, yet. On the other hand, this was the most comfortable I’ve ever been in a deity game. I never ventured much, but was never seriously threatened and certainly didn’t feel I was on the brink of extinction at any time.

C-IV Gotm XV: Inca
Adventurer Class

4000 BC: We explore a little and set tech path to bronze working followed by the wheel.

3940 BC: We start Cuzco 1 se of fish building barracks, start Tiwanaku 1 n of gems building barracks.

3520 BC: Some villagers give us 44 gold.

3400 BC: added Animal Husbandry to the tech research list

3250 BC: in Cuzco we queue a work boat then continuous Quecha

3220 BC: Tiwanaku finishes Obelisk then we queue continuous Quecha

3190 BC: We learn Bronze Working and start the revolution to Slavery

3040 BC: We notice copper. We decide to someday build a city just east of the copper to get copper and fish.

3010 BC: We notice gold, clams, and pigs off to the west. We send work boat to the fish. Now we have tons of food in Cuzco.

2620 BC: We learn Animal Husbandry. We discover Horses near Tiwanaku

2470 BC: Herodotus compiles a list of the most advanced civilizations.
We are dead last. We are Huayna Capac the Hopeless. We become fearful. We start to build a pasture on the sheep.

2290 BC: We found the city of Machu Picchu between copper and fish. Yay.

2050 BC: Completed work boat in Cuzco. It can't get to Machu Picchu. Send it west instead.

1810 BC: We discover Iron Working. We notice iron north of Cuzco. Maybe that would have been a good hill for a city. We build the new city of Ollantaytambo. Ollantaytambo gets clams right away. Soon we will have pigs and gold too.

1750 BC: These barbarian attacks are becoming more frequent. So far we have only lost two Quecha. We have killed many barbarians.

1630 BC: A previously wounded Quecha was killed by a barbarian. We become worried.

1570 BC: Got another new worker. Named him Trade Network Builder.
His job is to build a trade network. We are not particularly creative.

1450 BC: We gain access to horses. We start building a farm on the rice. We are not sure how this is working, considering there is no river here.

1390 BC: We add Metal Casting to the research queue.

1330 BC: We learn about Writing. Now we will build some libraries.

1300 BC: The barbarian attacks are becoming tiresome. At least we survive almost all of them.

1240 BC: We have connected to iron.

1210 BC: We agree to open borders with Hatshepsut.

1090 BC: We learn pottery.

985 BC: Tacitus has compiled a list of the most advanced civilizations.
Once again we are dead last. Once again we are Huayna Capac the Hopeless. Now we have become terrified. This does not bode well.

970 BC: One of our Axemen defeats a barbarian axeman. Oh great. Now they have axemen.

865 BC: We capture the barbarian city of Libyan. We rename it to Gumbo. It has sheep, horses, and wheat. Those barbarians are good at placing cities.

655 BC: We set a tech research path to Civil Service.

505 BC: We learn Metal Casting. We are still alive. Hatshepsut is pleased with us. We still have not met anyone else.

445 BC: We found the new city of Corihuayrachina on the eastern coast. Turned science slider down to 30% to keep from going bankrupt.

415 BC: We see several missionaries heading toward our cities. If Hatshepsut asks ... we will convert immediately.

400 BC: We learn sailing. This is a nice surprise, considering that we didn't know we were researching it. We remember that we have the Financial trait. Maybe some more cottages would be nice. Judaism has spread to our lands. We convert without being asked.

355 BC: We are insane. We declare war on Hatshepsut. We capture Giza. That wine should have been ours anyway. It is now. That's what I'm talking about. :crazyeye: We hope she doesn't destroy our entire civilization. We shall see. We shall see.

295 BC: We learn Meditation. Time to spread religion with missionaries.

280 BC: Hatshepsut is willing to talk about ending the war, but she won't give us any techs. She is way ahead on technology. We are worried. We start to panic.

250 BC: We accept Priesthood from Hatshepsut in return for peace.

235 BC: St. Augustine has compiled a list of the most cultured civilizations. As always, we are last. Apparently we are hopeless. We are starting to get a complex.

205 BC: We open our borders again. Here come more missionaries. Good deal.

25 BC: We learn Code of Laws. We have a revolt into the Caste System.

110 AD: We are still alive.

185 AD: We build the city of Huamanga far to the south. We will work the deer camp for some food right now. Some day we will be able to work the whales, assuming we are still alive.

200 AD: We send a Galley through Huamanga. Now we have a Galley on the east side. Time for some more exploring up the coast. Our other Galley continues heading north on the west side. We meet Tokugawa, who offers to be peaceful. We agree.

215 AD: We meet Cyrus. He appears in a Caravel on our east coast. We are now utterly terrified.

260 AD: We learn Civil Service. We discover that nobody else we have met knows about Civil Service. None of them are willing to trade any other tech for it. Weird. They know so many other techs, yet won't offer any of them in trade. We start researching Machinery. Soon we will learn how to build a Maceman.

335 AD: Hatshepsut finally trades a bunch of techs and cash for Civil Service.

500 AD: We learn Machinery. Time to build an army of Macemen.

530 AD: Hatshepsut GIVES us Alphabet. Amazing. Just like that.

545 AD: We meet Peter of Russia. We trade some tech. We establish open borders.

740 AD: We meet Gandhi of India.

770 AD: We meet Roosevelt.

1184 AD: We are still alive. We relax just a little bit.

1202 AD: Roosevelt GIVES us Astronomy. This is bizarre. We are confused.

1208 AD: Gandhi asks us to go to war with Peter. We agree.

1238 AD: We learn Education.

1250 AD: We build the city of Vilcas and finally claim the frozen silver to the far south.

1280 AD: We learn Liberalism.

1322 AD: We learn Economics.

1388 AD: We are now at war with both Cyrus and Tokugawa. We are going to die.

1394 AD: We lose Corihuayrachina to Cyrus.

1430 AD: We notice that Cyrus now has Infantry. We are sad. :(

1454 AD: Tokugawa won't make peace. Cyrus won't make peace.
Cyrus starts his infantry marching toward another city. We are doomed.

1496 AD: We lose Machu Picchu.

1502 AD: We lose Cuzco. It's the end of the world as we know it. We give Cyrus the city of Vilcas in return for peace.

1508 AD: We notice that our capital is the city of Gumbo. We laugh.

1553 AD: We sign a defensive pact with Hatshepsut. We sign a defensive pact with Roosevelt.

1580 AD: We build the city of Vilcabamba just south of some wheat. We build the city of Vitcos on the east coast.

1622 AD: We build the city of Andahuaylas in the northeast. We claim some copper.

1631 AD: We trade some tech with Peter. He is not doing well. His score is below ours.

1640 AD: A Great Artist is born. We culture bomb Cuzco from Vilcabamba. We mistakenly believe that Cuzco might flip back to us some day.

1643 AD: Gandhi GIVES us Communism. Just like that.

1649 AD: Many civs are finishing spaceship parts rapidly. We see giant powerful ships on the ocean and airplanes flying all over the place. We are still alive.

1670 AD: Some spy is going around sabotaging things. It is strange.

1673 AD: Moved Palace to Tiwanaku.

1700 AD: We are still alive. We are still alive. We are still alive.

1738 AD: Roosevelt wins a spaceship victory. We are still alive.

Continuing from first post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5074320&postcount=14

Declared war on Hatty in 740AD, attacking with Macemen, Catapults and some Pikemen for protection from Knights. Unfortunately I did not execute the attack well. I attacked Hatty's city by the Wine and captured it, but since I had left a defense force back in my city by the northern Copper, I did not have an adequate force to withstand counter attacks or to press farther into the Egyptian empire. Realizing that no attack was coming toward the homeland, I pushed north and captured another Egyptian citiy. In the face of strong pressure against the Wine city, I gave back the second city for peace. The net result of the war was the addition of one good city and strained relations with Hatty.

I realized I could not take on Hatty, so I tried to repair relations and went into a pure builder mode, cranking out Universities and pushing toward the UN. I had a great engineer that I was saving.

Hatty never would come around to giving me open borders and in 1262 she declared war. I had equal military tech, except for Rifleman which I could counter with Grenadiers. I scrambled a defense using Slavery to get Grenadiers out. I preemptively attacked with Catapults against the invaders, but the Wine city was lost. I thought I had a pulled together a decent defense, but when her stack of 3 Grenadiers, 2 Knights, 4 War Elephants, and 2 Catapults showed up with a couple side stacks for good measure, and I looked at her power graph being 7X mine, I resigned. I did not want to watch my little civilization be systematically taken apart.

I think the peaceful diplomatic approach was the way to go. Grab as much land as possible, lay cottages and beat the AI to the UN. Possibly players with better warring skills could have hurt Hatty enough, but as I saw, that approach was very risky.

Challenger, roosevelt won by space race victory 1774AD

Well, it has been a lot of firsts....
first time to post...
first time to play deity
first time to play with Inca
and etc...

I like to play fair games, without any advantage, that why i choosed Challenger, even knowing i´m not a good player (hardly wins prince games), and that being a deity game, but, everyone has their own crazyness...

Resuming my action on the field, i aimed to survive to the end, goal accomplished, but, mediocrely... I lack of many skills like spec cities and etc, my play is more of an intuitive play than anything else, im trying now to work out on these aspects and with success in some of my private games.

I settled in the same space, didnt knew the hills where better, than after some quechuas, settled the second city to the north by the sheeps... But that city was invaded by a horde of barbarians, and took me some time to reconquer it again... the rest of the game, just pure survival, facing a dow by toku, but luckly, he could not put any troops in the continent, as he was facing a dow from roos and others (as aways)...

my end game screenshot and mediocre empire :lol:

http://zfire.com.br/arkanjuca_thumb.jpg (http://zfire.com.br/arkanjuca_big.jpg)


well, i hope to get a better game in the next GOTM, and a better description of it too.. cya :cool:

Diplomatic Loss to Gandhi, 1664AD.

Well, from the first spoiler I said I was going to attack Hatty, despite being friendly with her.

Then I did, however, when my macemen/spearman/crossbow troop finished conquesting El Amarna and apporached the second Egyptian city, Alexandria, Hatty's Knights showed up.

Then the slaughter, I tried to use El Amarna as a bait, let Hatty take it and take Alexandria myself to sue peace, but failed as Hatty still left many troops in Alexandria. That is Deity...:(

Engineering was due in 22 turns so I had to sue for peace, I had to give Ollantaytambo to make peace, that was the first time I actually give a CITY to AI for peace.

Then I knew I don't stand a chance to win it anymore, so I just focused on remaining as long as possible. Be good with everyone, instead of Toku and Peter who were hated by everyone. I paid a heavy toll on that declaring to Hatty: I had to stay Confucianism all game long and stay Hereditary Rule all game long so that she still likes me. You won't feel good when your neighbor, who has "our close border spark tensions" with you, be even cautious to you.

I teched ahead with good success, although Toku in the course declared to me and I suffered for about 15 turns from this war, have to hate those Frigates! By 1652 I discovered Fission, and traded for Steam Power and Biology, I believe I could have got tech parity if there were 30-40 turns left for me. However, Gandhi built the UN and voted for diplo, the first vote failed by 11 votes. Then Gandhi got a GA, voted second time, succeeded.

I now believe that if I didn't declare to Hatty and played all peace I had a good chance to win a space or diplo, and conquer somebody like Peter or Toku for points. But anyway, I made the wrong decision. I should have known that Hatty will be heading for Guilds since she already have Machinery.

Now, can I get an award for 'earliest peaceful loss'? :D Seems AI always tech faster in my games than in other people's, it is a good trait for me in lower level games, coz I can get more in trade, but at Deity?:(

Diplomatic Loss to Gandhi, 1664AD.

[snip]

Gandhi built the UN and voted for diplo, the first vote failed by 11 votes. Then Gandhi got a GA, voted second time, succeeded.


Interesting that the AI went for diplomatic. Whenever I've had an AI SG of the UN in games I've played (not often) they have put through all sorts of other resultions only proposing a diplo victory as a last resort after other resultions ahve gone through. This happened also in my GOTM15 where Gandhi built the UN and never actually proposed diplo, putitng through a heap of other resolutions first.

Does anyone know what criteria the AI uses for decided what resolution to propose when SG of the UN?

jesusin, challenger, goal: cultural victory, result: spaceship loss 1750AD.

A helpful analysis of an unsuccessful game - which can be as helpful as a good analysis of a successful game. Thankyou.

If I could have retaken my city, would it have kept its accumulated culture? (I would really appreciate an answer). I can’t know, since Toku razed it.

Yes, its culture would have been intact. I had this happen to me once in a Culture game that I went on to win. However, all of the cultural buildings would be gone.

I could have sworn I'd already posted this recap, but I can't find it anywhere. My apologies if I'm double-posting somehow.

Anyway, this is continued from my first spoiler in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=205977&page=2

By 620 AD all the other civs had made contact with me and Gandhi, Tokugawa, and Hatty were rapidly filling up the remaining land on the landmass. So it was clear that my dream of settling the western third of the continent was hopeless. I did a good job of securing the eastern half of the big jungle belt for myself though, as well as the barely hospitable peninsula that ran way south. It was enough territory to support 15 cities, and could conceivably get me into the top two in population. That would be essential to any shot at Diplomatic victory because I had no shot at building the UN first. I was utterly, hopelessly, behind in technology.

Diplomatic Manuevers

Victory would also require as many AI votes as I could manage. There were basically three diplomatic blocks at this stage. Big India, medium Japan, and small Russia were all Buddhist and liked each other. Persia and America were both Hindu, friendly with each other, and large. Hatty and I were medium sized, Confucian, and liked each other.

To get truly excellent relations going I knew I would need bonuses for “you have wisely chosen your civics.” Unfortunately many of the civs had mutually exclusive Government civics as their favorites. Tokugawa was the only leader who had a non-government civic—Mercantilism—as a favorite. By necessity then, I would have to make him part of my club. If I could get Universal Suffrage up and running then Gandhi and Roosevelt might like me, but I decided that the odds were good that one of them would be my opponent in the voting. And it would take me a long, LONG, time to research to Democracy. Instead I decided to capitalize on my existing good relations with Hatty and run Hereditary Rule for the rest of the game. That is, as soon as I researched Monarchy. Did I mention that I was desperately backwards?

As for the rest of the votes that I needed, well I’d just have to hope that some of the other AIs warmed up to me or that my own population made up the difference. It was a long shot, but the best thing I had going.


Cry Havoc!

From 500 AD through 1184 AD, I slowly built up my economy after the shambles I made of it through war and my settler spamming. Since population was my number one concern, however, most of my new cities were built from the start to focus on growth. In 1184, Tokugawa asked me to declare war on Roosevelt. Roosevelt had had Astronomy , one small city on a corner of land near my empire, but was otherwise distant. He was, of course, vastly more powerful than I was, but I needed Tokugawa’s votes and so I trusted to luck and declared war. Roosevelt’s city was defended by Longbowmen, but I knew his buddy Cyrus already had Riflemen so this situation couldn’t last. I, by contrast, had just discovered Civil Service… but lacked Machinery to produce Macemen.

The war went OK, given the circumstances. I developed Machinery in time to get some Macemen next to Roosevelt’s city, only to see the Longbowmen upgrade to Rifles. At that point I reduced my (finally respectable) Science rate back down to about 10% and convinced Roosevelt to make peace for 50 gpt a turn in 1268 AD. It was either that or my Gem/Gold city.

That war was the last excitement for a good long while. After Machinery I teched up to Banking (1358 AD) so I could run Mercantilism. I was rewarded with the steadfast friendship of Tokugawa. My next tech target: Biology of course.


Building a House of Cards

My relations with Hatty were good but not great, largely because I had needed to abandon Confucianism for the time being to get the other civs not to hate me. On the bright side, good trading and acceding to a few demands had made Peter a good friend. If only I could convince him to stop being Buddhist, or better yet become Confucian himself, I could reactivate that religion and maybe get Hatty, Tokugawa, and Peter all to vote for me! Accordingly, in the 1550s I began sending Confucian missionaries to Peter’s lands. By Galley of course. Meanwhile my population had crawled out of last place.

In 1676 AD I discovered Biology. This was only about 4 turns after Hatty researched it. A little bit faster and I could have made my first tech trade of the game! Ah well. Even before I discovered Biology my cities were growing at a tremendous clip thanks to massive farming, and it accelerated into the stratosphere afterward. My population climbed to a respectable fourth and it looked like I had a real chance to reach 2nd place before the AIs launched.

I was even getting lucky in that neither Gandhi (1st place in pop and owner of the UN) nor Cyrus (2nd in pop) had enough support to get themselves elected Secretary-General of the UN. So votes for Sec-Gen were coming up every few turns like clockwork, and as soon as I had enough pop to displace Cyrus it looked like I’d be sure to win that vote. The supermajority needed for Diplomatic victory was still out of reach, but if everything broke my way it wasn’t impossible that I’d pull it off.

I gave myself about a 10% chance and considered myself lucky to have it, after all my poor play. One serious problem was that the “We demand emancipation” happiness malus was hampering my growth. I was pumping out Chariots—the cheapest unit I could produce—as fast as I could to garrison cities for added happiness, but still couldn’t keep up.


Fall Down Go Boom

Then in 1740 AD, Roosevelt declared war on Tokugawa. With whom I had a Defensive Pact. Hey, I had to get those relationships boosed somehow, OK? Anyway, Roosevelt was the world’s most powerful civilization, and laid in to me with Bombers, Gunships, Tanks, and Mech Inf. I had… about 6 Grenadiers, oh, and a lot of Chariots. Ten turns later (1760 AD) I had a lot fewer of both. I was also out five cities, and Cuzco stood undefended after Gunships attacks. I was delighted to hand over a sixth city to end the war.

Obviously my faint hopes of victory were dashed. Not only had I lost a huge chunk of population outright, but all my cities were starving what with my resources having been bombed. From my peak at something like 16% of world pop I dropped back to about 9%. Mercifully, the game was nearly over anyway. I watched Roosevelt nuke a few Japanese cities. How unoriginal. Gandhi had declared war on Russia while I was fighting my war, and proceeded to utterly dismantle Peter over the course of just a few turns. Gandhi was dropping nukes on Peter’s final city (off on an island somewhere) when the Indian spaceship launched in 1790 AD.


Lessons Learned

Thanks to Gandhi’s ruthlessness I finished in second to last place, with a score of 1422/2844. Nevertheless I had a fun time, at least, I did after I decided to just throw caution to the wind and try for my diplo victory no matter how unlikely it really was. I also found it very amusing to play a game where I neglected huge swaths of the tech tree. For instance, I didn’t research Hunting until 1352 AD, Calendar until 1685 AD, and didn’t develop my own Alphabet until 1764 AD, thirteen turns before the end of the game. Of course if I was doing it all over again I’d try to manage my economy better and not have to skip techs like these or try desperate gambits for victory. :)

I don’t blame the Deity difficulty level for the problems I experienced in this game (although I’m sure it contributed). The real problem was that I got myself into a war with Hatty that I was only able to win by ruining my economy. If I’d been content to expand peacefully, and cottage like crazy, I think I would have had better results.

Previously on GOTM 15 … (from first spoiler)

Built a bunch of Q’s, took ‘em north, stole a couple of Hatty’s workers, but a barb onslaught pillaged gem mine, killed a worker and kept settlers behind the walls for several turns. Second city not founded until 1390 BC. Q rushed a few barb cities, ended up with about six cities with the goal of survival.

End result ...

Spaceship Loss to America, 1697 AD, 1203 base, 2406 Firaxis.

Not too much exciting to tell ...

Charity case: AIs gave me Alphabet, Theology, Construction, Philosophy, Feudalism, Gunpowder, Liberalism, Guilds, Economics, Replaceable parts.

Needed them all to fend of Toku who declared in 1472 and landed about 30 units over 3 turns within 3 tiles of my capital.

I had just completed chemisty and had a few grenadiers, so started whipping them like mad. Also, I had defensive pacts with Roosevelt and Cyrus. Fortunately, Toku first went after a smaller, less defended city, and eventually took it (which lost my 6th university and so no more building of Oxford). Then he fanned out his units to pillage the land, instead of concentrating on my capital. Sounds like the same thing he did against jesusin. That allowed me to pick off individual units that were wounded, and then retreat my wounded units into my capital to heal. By judicious use of catapults to damage whole stacks, and counterattacks, I was able to hold the capital and clear my land of Toku's army.

There was no second Japanese attack wave ... my friend Roosevelt was crushing Toku. Once he was dead, re-established the DP with Roosevelt and Cyrus, and settled back to watch the space race, and to see how much score I could build up until the end with pop and tech.

So, I was not killed off, I was not even the last place finisher (Toku had that honor). So, maybe not so bad for my first deity game. If I had not been so obsessed with going after Hatty, and kept my Q's in my own area, I could have Q rushed the barb cities and had a nice 8 city empire or so early, and perhaps at least not been a charity case. Live and learn.

dV

I played test games (up to ~200AD) posted by Gnejs and Erkon (thanks, guys!) since I never tried deity level before.
From those I learned that:
1) Q rush doesn't work against Monty, 'cause he can build Jaguars without iron;
2) Q rush works great if someone settles the territory near your capital, like English in Erkon's game. Otherwise, it's a huge drain on the economy.

From the onset I wanted to go cultural no matter what, because of my failed cultural attemt as Napoleon in GOTM 14.
Q rush may or may not be the case depending on circumstances.

The game.

I settled 1N on the hill, to get those Gems in the capital.
Worker went south, Q north and bonus archer NW.

Early builds: Q, WB, Q, Settler, Q, Worker, Q, Granary, Settler, Obelisk, Lighthouse (1030 BC), Axeman
Early techs: Fishing, Mining, Bronze Working, The Wheel, Pottery, AH, Writing, Hunting, Sailing, Masonry (1210 BC.)

I met Egyptian scout in 3400 BC, coming from north.
Then, in 3250 BC my archer finds the goody hat, and a wounded barb archer next to it.
I took the chances and went into goody hat, got strong hostiles (4 warriors,) and that resolved my dilemma of Q rush -
from now on I'm playing godotnut's Totally Peaceful Deity Cultural game, except I don't have any chance with Piramids, so I will have to tech all the way to Democracy.

BTW, my archer got killed by wounded barb archer, and I hope Hatty had trouble with those 4 warriors...

2560 BC - Tiwanaku founded 2N from gold, to get gold, sheep and flood plains.
I was trying to settle as N as possible.
1450 BC - Machu Picchu founded near second copper.
805 BC - Confu founded in a distant land.
685 BC - Christianity founded in a distant land.
This same year Cuzco begins WB to explore West coast, this WB gets killed by barb galley.
670 BC - Ollantaytambo founded 2N from wine.
505 BC - Corihuayrachina founded, I think this one is west from Cuzco on the peninsula.

So, basically I peacefully expanded until I had 8 cities around my starting location.
In 505 BC Hindu spread to one of my cities. Hatty was hindu, but I didn't converted waiting her to ask. Besides, I didn't had tech for OR yet.
Then, Judaism spread into one of my cities, also founded by Hatty, so now I don't convert into Hindu for culture.
Finaly, I made contact with Tokugava and Gandhi, so I never adopted any religion.
Hatty was pleased with me for open borders, trades and Hereditary Rule.
I also never build any wonders.
I learned COL in 145 BC and started working on Courthouses, meanwile Hatty spreded Hindu with her missionaries.
I also spreaded Judaism in most of my cities.
I grabbed stone with 2nd border expansion of my Wine city. Hatty had city 2 SW from the stone taken from barbs, but it never cought on on culture.
Now, I had copper myself, but what about marble? I managed to trade marble from Toku at first, and build my first Hindu Mandir with it, but then Toku lost this marble to Gandhi due to the border expansion. it was on the Islands.
I didn't traded it from Gandhi, thinking I will do it later when I have next 3 temples ready, but then Gandhi sold it off to Hatty,
so I ended up buying all marble buildings without marble, including Hermitage.

Now, when I met Toku and Gandhi, and later all other guys I was behind in techs, but I managed to trade some techs and ended up researching few things before Peter and Toku.
Gandhi was leader in score, and in culture. I don't remember when, but I think around 1300AD I bribed Peter to attack Gandhi with tech.
Now, looking back at the game, that was probably the best shot at Victory - to abandon the cultural game and attack Gandhi from 2 sides.
I almost had a tech parity back then, also very few units, mostly Q's as MP.
But no, I haven't done this - I wanted to see how close I can get with cultural playing.
Peter and Gandhi warred for may be 500 years, Peter took Calcutta, and that was it - they signed peace.

Meanwhile I got size 1 Russian city flipped to me, down south near 2 silver.
I took it, because it didn't had any religion and I hoped for a new one, and because it made me with 9 cities ness. for the cultural Deluxe game.
Cyrus sread Confu to Cuzco in 1210AD, and Buddism spreaded on it's own around the same time, so I got 4 religions.
Now, I'm thinking why is it I wasn't afraid to bribe Peter into war wit Gandhi? I think by that time I had a Defensive Pact with Cyrus already.
Later on I signed DP with Roosevelt too.
Hatty was a bit upset about it (-2), but I figured she has greater enemy then me - Peter.

1496 AD - Tokugawa commits Seppuku (declares war on me.)
Toku land his SOD (5 cats, mess of Rifles, and 3 or 4 Knights) near my size 1 silver colony flipped from Russians.
I have a tech to build Grenadiers, but do not have any at ready.
I cranked up taxes to 100%, upgrade my Q's to pikemen and my Pikemen to Gren, an fend off the attack.
Toku razes silver colony, gets to my Deer city, pillages Deer, Whale and East fish (yes, he came from the East,) and that's pretty much all he done.
I killed his land units, while Cyrus' and Roo's destroyers took care of Toku's Galleons and Fregates.
I upgraded my caravell to Fregate and went to look as Allied forces took all Toku's cities one by one.
By the time they finished on the continent and went to Islands, Roo was using Navy seals.
Around the time I fend off Toku, I turned off the research and went all money to buy Cathedrals.
Roosvelt gave me Steel during the war. Hatty and Gandhi also gave me some techs at some point.
After the war I reinstated Defensive Pact with Roo and Cyrus, to keep Hatty at bay.
Cyrus had Apollo before the war, and lanched 2 parts when he was fiting Toku.
Cyrus also resettled silver spot, but 2 S from prev location, so I can't flip it.

Then I settled a new city on east side of Gandhi continent, in tundra (or ice?), to grab a Crab.
Nearby tundra become populated very fast by Roo, Cyrus and Gandhi.
I also settled a city on the Island NE from marble, to may be get a marble in the future, wich never happened.
The tundra city eventualy got Cristianity (from Gandhi,) and flipped two nearby cities - one Roo and one Cyrus.
I spread Cristi into all my other cities, ending up with 5 religions, 3 cathedrals for each, + Hermitage.

When I went 90% culture, I generated 850, 810, 790 per turn in my 3 cities.
I estimated that to win, I need 1000 culture per turn in all 3 cities, wich never happened.
Gandhi was ahead of me with culture, 'cause he had Eifel, Broadway, R'n'Roll and Hollywood, and Bombei become Legendary in 1600 smth AD.
(with all that outsourcing boom, what did you expected?) :)
Nevertheless, his 3rd cultural city had less culture then my 1st, and I can culturebomb my 2nd and 3rd with GAs.
So it's not him I'm worried about, it's the spacerace.
Cyrus had the lead in spacerace, then Gandhi took over, then Hatty built Space elevator and I knew she's going to win.

I don't have the game on this computer, but I think when Hatty lanched in 1750, I had 39K, 38K, 37K in my 3 cities.
One GA was ready, and another one in the making, so it made me 40 turns from the victory - way too far.

Edit - exect numbers are 41600, 40500, 38500 of culture.

Lessons learned.

My most obvious shortcoming is luck of great people - 1GS for Academy in Cuzco, and 1 GA ready - that's all.
I made my 3rd city cultural - better way perhaps was to make it a GP farm, and then cultural city up north in the jungle - it won't have any resources,
but plenty of cottage space.
Anyway, even if I had 6 extra Great Artists to fall out of havens, I whould be short from victory.
So it seams that conclusion is that Cultural victory is not possible on deity without Piramids, and Piramids are not possible unless you have stone in your capital.
For this game I think the best short was to tear Gandhi apart along with Peter, then try diplo.
But then again, how would I fend off Toku in that case, without alliance with bigger powers?

1496 AD - Tokugawa commits Seppuku (declares war on me.)
Toku land his SOD (5 cats, mess of Rifles, and 3 or 4 Knights) near my size 1 silver colony flipped from Russians.
I have a tech to build Grenadiers, but do not have any at ready.
I cranked up taxes to 100%, upgrade my Q's to pikemen and my Pikemen to Gren, an fend off the attack.
Toku razes silver colony, gets to my Deer city, pillages Deer, Whale and East fish (yes, he came from the East,) and that's pretty much all he done.
I killed his land units, while Cyrus' and Roo's destroyers took care of Toku's Galleons and Fregates. Toku declares late 1400s, DP with Cyrus and Roosevelt, one wave of attackers held off, and Toku gets killed by Roosevelt ... I am having deja vu! :eek: Seems that several games had common themes in this regard.

dV

Cuzco at its peak
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/77622/gotm15a.jpg
Strategic view

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/77622/gotm15b.jpg
The peaceful empire of the Incas

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/77622/gotm15c.jpg

Thank you for your encouraging words, Mad Professor.

Thank you for the info, Vynd. Good to know. I will lose legendary cities more often now that I know that culture remains in them. :lol:


At that point I reduced my (finally respectable) Science rate back down to about 10% and convinced Roosevelt to make peace for 50 gpt a turn in 1268 AD. It was either that or my Gem/Gold city.


Hey! I could have tried that in my game too! Specially since money is not a problem in a Deity (cultural) game. I knew I was going to learn new things in the spoilers. :goodjob:


I spread Cristi into all my other cities, ending up with 5 religions, 3 cathedrals for each, + Hermitage.
When I went 90% culture, I generated 850, 810, 790 per turn in my 3 cities.

Thank you for your detailed post, it is very interesting reading.

May I do a suggestion? I don’t have all the necessary data, so I could easily be wrong, but my guts impression when I read this is you went 100% culture too late. What date was that, by the way? In my game it was 1172AD, almost a millennia later than in my usual Deity games.

Would you consider replaying part of the game? If so, I would suggest not settling those two last cities, not spreading that 5th religion, not researching Democracy but relying on one or two short periods of slavery to build the Cathedrals, not saving money at 100% taxes. Does it sound like a feasible alternative?

So it seams that conclusion is that Cultural victory is not possible on deity without Piramids…

I am sorry but I can’t share your conclusion. In fact, I believe that Pyramids damage your chances of a cultural victory.

Both my plenty-of-mistakes game and your game prove that a cultural victory was possible. I still believe that culture was the best path to victory in this game. Diplomacy seems too luck dependant for my taste, but that could be due to my lack of diplomatic skills.

Anyway, even if I had 6 extra Great Artists to fall out of havens, I whould be short from victory.

6 extra GA is too little to hope for. I had popped 7 GP by 1300AD, an unusual low number. I was expecting to have popped 10 more by 1730AD.

Usually my non legendary cities are farmed all around an their only task after 1AD is to run artists. You had more cities than me, so you could have had some 18-19GP at the end of the game.


There was no second Japanese attack wave ... my friend Roosevelt was crushing Toku. Once he was dead, re-established the DP with Roosevelt and Cyrus,

Oh, how much I envy you! Had I accepted that DP, I wouldn’t be defending the Culture way with arguments, but with facts…sigh:sad:

Interesting that the AI went for diplomatic. Whenever I've had an AI SG of the UN in games I've played (not often) they have put through all sorts of other resultions only proposing a diplo victory as a last resort after other resultions ahve gone through. This happened also in my GOTM15 where Gandhi built the UN and never actually proposed diplo, putitng through a heap of other resolutions first.

Does anyone know what criteria the AI uses for decided what resolution to propose when SG of the UN?

Gandhi did propose a lot of other resolutions. 3 global civics, nuclear and 2 trade routes resolutions. But he built the UN as early as 1538, and he was friendly with Cyrus and Washington. However there were still 2 global civics that he didn't propose, including Universal Suffrage, his favorite. So I guess he really knew that he could win a diplo at the time.

May I do a suggestion? I don’t have all the necessary data, so I could easily be wrong, but my guts impression when I read this is you went 100% culture too late. What date was that, by the way? In my game it was 1172AD, almost a millennia later than in my usual Deity games.

Would you consider replaying part of the game? If so, I would suggest not settling those two last cities, not spreading that 5th religion, not researching Democracy but relying on one or two short periods of slavery to build the Cathedrals, not saving money at 100% taxes. Does it sound like a feasible alternative?



I think you have a good point here, Jesusin. May be culture victory was possible after all?

I learned Democracy in 1328 AD - means I had some Universities and even few Observatories.
1352 AD - I'm running 100% tax to get money.
I started to run 20% culture just before the war with Japan, then turned back to 100% tax.
Finally I went 100% culture in 1529 - very late!

I might give it a try and see if I can win by turning 100% culture earlier.

Thanks for your detailed post, Jesusin!

This is turning into an interesting discussion regarding the possibility of winning with culture. I will be very interested to see if anyone can do it and how.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I played 4 times trying to win culturally but couldn't pull it off. I used Godotnut's approach and was able to build 3 strong cottage cities and a good GP factory running 7 specialists. In subsequent games after the original I tried to execute better (by maxing the cites faster) and made some incremental improvements but was always 400+ turns with the AI launching between 350-400.

The problem could be that (besides not having the Pyramids) I only received 3 religions in time to build cathedrals. Twice I got extras but way too late. There are a couple of things I didn’t try such as: building early religions or building a far away city to catch others sooner but I finally burned out (or maybe it’s because there’s a new game available). Of coarse there’s the distinct possibility that my execution wasn’t up to par but I have to think it was pretty good. I don’t think my 4 cities could have been placed any better or maxed out very much faster.

Maybe it’s possible by nabbing some early religions along with a far off city to pick up mid to late religions sooner. A really remote possibility would be to engineer a world war to delay the space race.

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

So then after seeing Thorrez posting a diplomatic win I was again challenged and was finally able win. I have never tried diplomatic so it didn’t even occur to me at the start. Actually the strategic decision-making at the beginning of the game should gone like this: early exploration shows we’re isolated so conquest/domination is out, this is deity so space race and time limit is definitely out, no Pyramids so cultural is out (at the time I didn’t know there was another approach). The only thing left is diplomatic and there’s no way to have enough population to be in the vote without building the UN so that becomes the overarching goal. The key mid-game strategy turns out to be avoiding all trades with Japan and Russia and late game determining who will end up with the most population and really sucking up to the other 3. Well that does work and it was satisfying to be able to pull it off.

This is turning into an interesting discussion regarding the possibility of winning with culture. I will be very interested to see if anyone can do it and how.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I played 4 times trying to win culturally but couldn't pull it off. I used Godotnut's approach and was able to build 3 strong cottage cities and a good GP factory running 7 specialists. In subsequent games after the original I tried to execute better (by maxing the cites faster) and made some incremental improvements but was always 400+ turns with the AI launching between 350-400.

The problem could be that (besides not having the Pyramids) I only received 3 religions in time to build cathedrals. Twice I got extras but way too late. There are a couple of things I didn’t try such as: building early religions or building a far away city to catch others sooner but I finally burned out (or maybe it’s because there’s a new game available). Of coarse there’s the distinct possibility that my execution wasn’t up to par but I have to think it was pretty good. I don’t think my 4 cities could have been placed any better or maxed out very much faster.

Maybe it’s possible by nabbing some early religions along with a far off city to pick up mid to late religions sooner. A really remote possibility would be to engineer a world war to delay the space race.

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

So then after seeing Thorrez posting a diplomatic win I was again challenged and was finally able win. I have never tried diplomatic so it didn’t even occur to me at the start. Actually the strategic decision-making at the beginning of the game should gone like this: early exploration shows we’re isolated so conquest/domination is out, this is deity so space race and time limit is definitely out, no Pyramids so cultural is out (at the time I didn’t know there was another approach). The only thing left is diplomatic and there’s no way to have enough population to be in the vote without building the UN so that becomes the overarching goal. The key mid-game strategy turns out to be avoiding all trades with Japan and Russia and late game determining who will end up with the most population and really sucking up to the other 3. Well that does work and it was satisfying to be able to pull it off.

I think for cultural victories in this game, you may grab at least two religions from Peter. A few grenades are enough to teach him a lesson with someone, Cyrus or Gandhi, as your war partner. In my replayed game I actually had a chance to take Moscow, but my Galleon only escorted 1 grenade there, had I escorted 3 I could beat my friend Cyrus in taking Moscow, which was guarded by only two longbows. With those two more religions cultural might be a possibility.

And I still don't think space race is out. I am replaying from my 335AD save (when I made the wrong decision and was starting to pop troops), now I have reached 1553AD, with radio got in 1544AD and computers due in 7 turns. We will see the result of the race.

Lawrence, hope springs eternal and you got to love that.

Lawrence, hope springs eternal and you got to love that.

Failed through... Forgotten ONLY one thing, you cannot HURRY THE INTERNET...

Lawrence, you're killen me ... I love you man.

Well, that strategy might work in some other games, not this one.

Beeline to Computers. Then Beeline to Fiber Optics by Rocketry -> Satellites, you should be able to get Artillery and Industrialism from trade before that.

Shut down all research, switch to organized religion, buy factories and rush the Internet as fast as you can. Then go all production and hopefully you will win the manuever race with AI.

I haven't built an internet in civ4 before, so I never knew that it is a world project and not a wonder. I stockpiled a GE in Cuzco hoping to hurry it, but :eek: found out that it is not possible. By the time I finally put the World Wide Web around, Hatty had already launched. Nevertheless, the strategy should work if you are 30 turns faster in tech than what I did in this game, which should be possible in some deity games.

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

Another approach? Which approach are you referring to? I have tried dozens of approaches for a cultural victory! The more successful ones at Deity level I know are:

- Food: (credit goes to bostich). Build farms all around and get 20+ GA.
- Food without research: If you are going to culture bomb all the way, why should you research Music or Liberalism?
- Prioritize Alphabet: Get trades as soon as possible, don’t keep Alphabet for yourself.
- Prioritize CoL (credit goes to WastinTime): Beeline to CoL, then Alphabet. Enjoy Caste System as soon as possible. Early GPs are awesome.
- Stop research at Liberalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism and Printing Press.
- Stop research at Democracy.
- Use Mercantilism.
- Use Free Market.
- Your Cathedrals should be rushbuyed.
- Your Cathedrals should be whipped.
- Your Cathedrals should be built and chopped.
- You need 3 cottage cities.
- You need 2 cottage cities, your third legendary city is your GPfarm.
- You have to build the Pyramids.
- You have to build the Parthenon.
- You shouldn’t be building any Wonders.
- Build an Academy with a GS.
- Lighbulb techs with 1-3 GS (Philosophy and/or Education)
- Don’t never pop a GS. All your GP should be GA.
- Be the first to Music
- Ignore Music, trade for it
- Be the first to Liberalism
- Ignore Liberalism, trade for it

As you see, approaches are not mutually exclusive, you can pick and mix. For example, godotnut’s original strategy (he has sharpened his strategy since he wrote his memorable guide) would be ‘Pyramids or Democracy’+3 cottaged cities+rushbuy+1st to Liberalism.


You can find a lot of cultural threads in the HOF forum, there are some by jesusin, some by bostich… Lexad and Xin Yu have very good ideas too. There are also threads in the strategy forum, ‘The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory’ or godotnut’s guide. In a Prince GOTM there was a very interesting discussion about culture. That’s all I can remember right now.

I haven't built an internet in civ4 before, so I never knew that it is a world project and not a wonder. I stockpiled a GE in Cuzco hoping to hurry it, but :eek: found out that it is not possible. By the time I finally put the World Wide Web around, Hatty had already launched. Nevertheless, the strategy should work if you are 30 turns faster in tech than what I did in this game, which should be possible in some deity games.

I won a space race in an emperor game where I'd messed up a couple of things and got behind in tech - I seem to remember being attacked and having my economy ravaged at one stage. Anyhow, beeling to computers for laboratories, and then aiming fast for fibre optics and building the internet as fast as possible, even resorting to chopping forest in the modern era, got me the internet, and after that it was a matter of making sure I built the right parts in the right cities to keep the flow really going, and to have spies in my main competition's area blowing up his aluminium - which I had plenty of money for because I wasn't researching...

I wouldn't recommend it as a "perfect" strategy and I don't think the internet will ever get you a "fastest" space race, but it will pull a mess back into shape and give you a shot at getting to the line first with a space race win if you've lost the tech race, which is always going to happen to me when I try diety (At least for a long while yet)

I was never in a position to do that in this game though - I just didn't have it together enough to tech to fibre optics before Roosevelt launched never mind build the internet and a space ship!

I think a cultural should have been possible here--I'm not too experienced at cultural and I was about 20 turns short. Staying out of war seemed a challenge--I got attacked 3 times and would have lost early had I not teched to rifles. I only had 2 religions and got the second kind of late--another was lost as the city was razed before I could spread it.

As for getting all the GP, I didn't have a great GP site--used the fish/sheep. So I was definately short GP--but I think that secondary.

I'm hoping some more the strong cultural players will post spoilers so I can learn--this was one of the best GOTM's anyway.

Thanks for the detailed info jesusin ... you really know your culture. Below I indicated which tactics from your list that I used. I guess what I meant by "another approach" would be one that's fundimentially different that godotnut's. I think the ultra-high food and/or quitting tech ultra-early qualify as fundimentially different. Thanks for the insight.

Another approach? Which approach are you referring to? I have tried dozens of approaches for a cultural victory! The more successful ones at Deity level I know are:

- Food: (credit goes to bostich). Build farms all around and get 20+ GA.
- Food without research: If you are going to culture bomb all the way, why should you research Music or Liberalism?

- Prioritize Alphabet: Get trades as soon as possible, don’t keep Alphabet for yourself.
Yes -> Prioritize CoL (credit goes to WastinTime): Beeline to CoL, then Alphabet. Enjoy Caste System as soon as possible. Early GPs are awesome.

- Stop research at Liberalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism and Printing Press.
Yes -> Stop research at Democracy.

- Use Mercantilism.
Yes -> Use Free Market.

Yes -> Your Cathedrals should be rushbuyed.
- Your Cathedrals should be whipped.
- Your Cathedrals should be built and chopped.

Yes -> You need 3 cottage cities.
- You need 2 cottage cities, your third legendary city is your GPfarm.

- You have to build the Pyramids.
- You have to build the Parthenon.
Yes -> You shouldn’t be building any Wonders.

Yes -> Build an Academy with a GS.
- Lighbulb techs with 1-3 GS (Philosophy and/or Education)
- Don’t never pop a GS. All your GP should be GA.

Tried but couldn't -> Be the first to Music
- Ignore Music, trade for it

Tried but couldn't -> Be the first to Liberalism
- Ignore Liberalism, trade for it

As you see, approaches are not mutually exclusive, you can pick and mix. For example, godotnut’s original strategy (he has sharpened his strategy since he wrote his memorable guide) would be ‘Pyramids or Democracy’+3 cottaged cities+rushbuy+1st to Liberalism.


You can find a lot of cultural threads in the HOF forum, there are some by jesusin, some by bostich… Lexad and Xin Yu have very good ideas too. There are also threads in the strategy forum, ‘The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory’ or godotnut’s guide. In a Prince GOTM there was a very interesting discussion about culture. That’s all I can remember right
now.

Thanks for the detailed info jesusin ... you really know your culture.

Very interesting game - Thank you to the staff :)

I learned more with this game than any other ...

I think I did not use correctly what was given to us : Quechua's and Hatty :
- I always was in peace so my Quechua did not serve : the key point was in 2840 BC where I could have attack Hatty fourth's settler and after capture a worker and his third city ... (I tried it)
- Hatty has no memory : share her religion and she forget the past ...

So I tried a cultural victory but was out in tech race too early.:rolleyes:

Someone knows if GP counts in the final score (I had 3 Great artist to make a cultural bomb when AI won) ? :confused:

The second wave came from the W, 3 galleons. The plan was to make them impossible to disembark. So I placed a unit in every tile of my W coast and hoped he wouldn’t continue E. The first turn he couldn’t get out of the ships. Well done! No amphibious units in his stack. But the second turn all his units were on my shores. Is Toku cheating?
No. They had killed a worker. So I have learnt that workers can’t be used for a coastal blockade.


Coastal blockade doesn't exist in civ4. Any unit can attack amphibiously, but without the amphibious promotion they get a 50 percent attack-penalty.

Contender, spaceship loss to Ghandi in 1817 AD.

I love the Quecha rush, it is about the first thing I did after I took civ4 out of the box. I didn't really pull it off in this game though, it wasn't till axemen that I started conquering the Egyptians. Twice I rushed Thebes with Quecha's and lost them all. Especially the first one was stupid: the odds were against me and what pushed me to do it anyway was the high maintenance cost of the Quecha's in foreign territory. With a bit more patience, I do think the Quecha rush could work in this GOTM.

Anyway, the Quecha's did slow down Egypt, and I finally conquered them with axemen, then swordmen and finally macemen and catapults. So that is some satisfaction; hey, if it was duel I would have won!

After that India settled really fast on my continent. I decided to feign the motions for a cultural victory that I would never win. I have never tried a cultural victory, so this was a good chance to try, while waiting for the end.
Then Tokugawa got eliminated by Roosevelt, so that's another AI who did worse than me. Roosevelt was very aggressive in my game, he was finishing off Peter when Ghandi launched. For some reason the big boys never layed a finger on me, and kept being pleased with me even when I refused to join wars.

GOTM15 – History of Erkon Capac

Continuation from First Spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5076021&postcount=17), in which I captured two Egyptian city. *warning - long spoiler*

Preparations for war
515 AD – Most advanced civilizations of the world:
Gandhi
Unknown
Unknown
Peter
Hatshepsut
Tokugawa
Me

530 AD – Someone circumnavigates

545 AD – Gandhi has banking…

620 AD – Alexandria out of resistance, and research at 60%. Hatchepsut is sending a lot of units to the west. My strategic goal is to take her eastern cities, and hopefully press her towards the west, where she will clash into Togugawa or someone else.

665 AD – Gandhi discovers Liberalism

740 AD – Meet Cyrus. My research is now at 122 bpt.

770 AD – Tiwanaku will complete a forge next turn and it is time to ramp up the military production. I take a break from playing for two days to contemplate my situation…
…
Two days later: I will have a very hard time winning this by conquest. I need Astronomy, Artillery and Railroad. I will most likely need Combustion (for destroyers and transporters) and Scientific Method. That’s about 20 techs, and 20*15 turns = 300 turns. I don’t have that many turns. So, domination is ruled out. Diplomacy? I wont build UN, but I can become the largest population if I take out Hatshepsut and populate the whole continent. This is attractive, but relies on someone building UN before Gandhi or Cyrus launch.

Finally, I can go for a cultural victory. My two cities just west of Cuzco are high yield commerce cities, and can focus on religious buildings. Cuzco would then become the third candidate for legendary status. Ollantaytambo will peak at 50 commerce and potentially less if I loose out on trade due to AI running mercantilism. Machu Picchu will peak at 29, but will run 4 artists (National Epic).

Running at 80% culture rate will then bring in about 40 cpt + buildings (+20?) + production, perhaps reaching 70 culture. Three cathedrals will then add another 210 culture. If I’m lucky, that will bring me up to 300 cpt. 75 000 divided by 300 equals 250 turns. Each Great Artist will reduce this by 20 turns / city, so with luck, I can get down to 200 turns. It will however take 50 turns before the buildings are ready and I can shut down research (I am 75 turns from liberalism). Right now, I’m on turn 218 (of 660). Victory will then occur at turn 468 i.e. somewhere between 1800 and 1900. That’s most probably too late.

I think that a cultural victory would have been possible if I could have kept up a bit with the research rate. As it is, my chance now is very small. And there is only one area where a human can have a chance against the heavily favoured AI: combat.

Regardless of victory condition, I want to take out the eastern Egyptian cities. So, prepare for war then. And I lightbulb Philosophy.

785 AD – Traded Philosophy to Hatshepsut for 450 gold. Met Roosevelt. Four research monsters! My, if they don’t start fighting soon, this game will be over before Huayna can spell to Computer Assisted Cosmic Navigational Algorithms.

Current score: Gandhi, Roosevelt and Cyrus are tied at first place (1500 points). Hatshepsut would have been there too had I not taken two of her cities (1250 points). Tokugawa and Peter are at 1100/1050 and glorious Huayna at 700 points. Not bad. After the upcoming war with Hatshepsut, I will be in fourth place.

Relations towards me:
Gandhi, Peter, Hatshepsut – pleased
Roosevelt, Tokugawa, Cyrus – cautious

Inter-AI relations:
Annoyed towards Peter: Cyrus
Annoyed towards Cyrus: Peter, Tokugawa
Annoyed towards Tokugawa: Cyrus, Gandhi, Hatshepsut
Annoyed towards Gandhi: Tokugawa
Annoyed towards Hatshepsut: Peter, Tokugawa
Annoyed towards Roosevelt: Peter

Only Roosevelt is Pleased with Hatshepsut, others are cautious or annoyed.

800 AD – Gandhi requires me to cancel my deals with the Japanese. I say no, since I prefer an angry Gandhi, although I have a vague memory that Gandhi wont get upset when his requests are turned down (correct).

845 AD – Engineering done, Gandhi cancel silk – sugar deal due to Hatshepsut expand her cultural border over my sugar. In one of the stupidest acts in the century, I cancel all deals (including a 7 gold income deal) in an effort to negotiate a better one. I forgot to check his financial status. It turns out that he has no gold surplus. Darn.

905 AD – Feudalism. War preparations ongoing. Longbowmen will be handy. The logistic planning is a little bit tricky, since I have noticed that Hatshepsut has a lot of loose troops. She has soon settled the continent, so I better be quick, before she starts building super stacks.

995 AD – My score is growing as fast as the AI, i.e. I still have 50% of the leader score. That will change soon! Hatshepsut does not have Guilds yet.Second Egyptian Wars1010 AD – Once again I have to remind Queen Hatshepsut that her head would look good at the end of a pole. War!

1040 AD – How humiliating: Gandhi reaches out from his ivory tower and with his grace, he gifts me Guilds! Even the AI feel pity for my feeble attempts to win this game.

I keep in within my borders and let Hatshepsut assault me. My hope is to kill off her Horse Archers before she learns Guilds and upgrade them to Knights.

I have contact with the other AI tech wise! Only Cyrus has gunpowder, which I can research myself!! As if that means anything…

1085 AD – Her main stack is destroyed, and it’s time to move my stack towards her city. I will cut right through her lands towards the east and take Pi-Ramesses. Then her land is divided in three parts. I bet the AI can’t handle that! Research is down to 50% (Civil Service in 5 turns, she still hasn’t got Guilds).

1100 AD – She is swarming my borders with Horse Archers.

1106 AD - A second stack is gathering around Elephantine, but I have a good mix of units, and it’s on a hill, so I can take the assault.

1112 AD - She has guilds now. I think I got most of her Horse Archers though, or there will be lots of Knights next turn!

1118 AD - Ok, lets assault Pi-Ramesses (shields are down). Start with the cats:
Loose, Loose, Withdraw. 3 enemy units left. Swordsman next:
88.9% - win
95.6% - win
89% - win
Pi-Ramesses is pillaged to 215 gold (install new governor). Granary and Courthouse is preserved.

1154 AD – Tokugawa demands me to cancel deals with Gandhi. I have to comply, I don’t want to give T. any excuse to attack me. At least I can delay an attack.

1160 AD – I have to sure for peace (160 gold to me). I don’t have enough units to take Thebes. It was a mistake to march to her capital. The gain would have been tremendous, but I knew the risk that it would be heavily defended. Instead, I will consolidate my defenses and create a new stack that will take out her eastern cities (which are now surrounded by my cities). She won’t be able to rally defenses to them, and all I need is to hold against her attack from her other cities. I switch to Bureaucracy (I forgot to do that earlier). I also whipped a little bit too much at the end. I could have lived with the unrest a few turns more until I made peace.

Total units killed in second Egyptian Wars:
17 Horse Archers
11 Catapults
4 Maceman
4 Crossbowmen
3 Pikemen
1 Knight
5 Longbowmen
Sum = 45

Total units lost in second Egyptian Wars:
1 Pikeman
2 Axeman
1 Longbowman
3 Crossbowmen
2 Catapults
1 Knight
1 Quechua
Sum = 11

Ratio: 4/1

1166 AD – Time again for more depressing news: The Most Powerful Civilizations of the World:
Cyrus
Tokugawa
Roosevelt
Hatshepsut
Gandhi
Peter
Me

I can run research at 70% now (222 bpt). And I guess that I have given up on the cultural victory.

1190 AD – Hatshepsut has Astronomy, Cyrus has Riflemen.

1196 AD – Gunpowder. Chemistry next (13 turns). I trade gunpowder to Peter for World Map, Music and 300 gold. I could have got Drama instead of the gold, but I don’t need Drama. Full map revealed. And Peter has enough on his hands. He’s pleased with me and annoyed with Roosevelt, Hatshepsut and Cyrus. Hatshepsut is his worst enemy, so I hope he will jump her, not me.Third war with Hatshepsut1226 AD – Hatshepsut moves a Knight into the jungle next to my lands. I can’t resist, although I’m not really prepared. Again, I send my emissary to bring her the bad news: Your head etc etc.

Trade wine to Tokugawa for 12 gold, sugar to Peter for 4, World Map to Tokugawa for 200.

1262 AD – Chemistry. And you know what? Peter has finally got his act together and declared on Gandhi! Perfect!! I trade Chemistry to Peter for Drama, Compass, Paper, World Map and 340 gold. Steel next. If I can trade that one away, I will get a lot in return.

1268 AD – Giza next. I’ve got 5 cat, and my swordsman has 70% even before the garrison is soften up. Lets start with two cats: loose, withdraw. Two swordsman next – win, win. Catapult – win. Knight – win. Giza fall (city on east cost).

1280 AD – What fun, Gandhi asks me to join the war against Peter. Is he that desperate?

1292 AD – Gandhi shows up: “Give us what we want (80 gold) or prepare to be destroyed.” Oh my god, has anyone ever got threatened by Gandhi in this way? I tell him to go to h**l. “Very well. I suggest that you start cranking out those soldiers, Huayna Capac. You’ll have need for them shortly.” I tremble and shake! Lol. Gandhi of all people! He didn’t get upset even, still cautious. My first grenadier is out.

1298 AD – El-Amarna next (another Egyptian city on the east coast). Grenadier has 85% and wins. Swordsman wins and Pikeman wins. I raze the city since the tiles are covered by Tiwanaku. I move the cats to the south to raze the city south of my capital. I don’t like that threat.

1316 AD – Gandhi completes Kremlin.

1322 AD – Cyrus completes the Statue of Liberty

Hatshepsut brings up a stack of knights, catapults and a grenadier. It’s time for peace, and I abandon my idea to take out the southern city. I’ll race towards steel and build me an army of cannons instead. The goal with the war is reached, and it’s time to put some efforts into my cities. Sustainable research is at 70%.

I want to build forges and theatres in my large cities to compensate for the deadly war weariness. I will also station cheap longbowmen in the cities with highest potential to be unhappy (former Egyptian cities). While my cities are restored, I’ll produce cannons, since they are good for counterattacking stacks.

Total units killed in third Egyptian Wars:
Knight 23
Catapults 12
Longbowmen 7
Macemen 5
Pikemen 5
Crossbowmen 3
Musketman 1

Sum = 56

Total units lost in third Egyptian Wars:
Pikemen 4
Longbowman 1
Catapults 3
Spearman 1
Worker 1
Grenadier 1
Crossbowman 1

Sum = 12

Ratio: 4.5/1

Trade gold for 13 gpt to Roosevelt. I will cancel deal when happiness become problem again. Both Cyrus and Peter request my action, but I deny both. It’s a good sign that they care about me at least.Provoking Hatshepsut1358 AD – Three turns to Steel, Roosevelt and Cyrus has it. Hope, hope, hope I can trade it for some other tech!

1364 AD – Hatshepsut has Riflemen. Darn. And she’s running Nationhood. I wonder if I’m really going to make it when I attack her the fourth time. And why should I? Well, I won’t win the game, so I just want to see if I can make a difference.

1370 AD – Gandhi has steel. Darn.

1376 AD – Learned Steel. Trade it to Peter for Printing Press, Optics, Calendar, World Map and 320 gold.

I just remembered the opening video when some sort of king is crowned in front of a lot of people. That’s sooo remote right now. I will pass Peter in score very soon, and my goal is to bring down Hatshepsut. Then what? Well, I want the Incan people to understand that the flashes in the skies are not the gods who are angry but it’s our neighbors leaving this damned planet.

Time to plan for another war against Hatshepsut then. I’ll shut down research and upgrade my units, then I’ll attack. Sell Steal for 270 gold to Tokugawa.

1388 AD – The b***h requests my Steel. I won’t give in to her demands, but I will trade it for astronomy. This may be madness, but my only way to win the game is through diplomacy. I won’t win without UN, so I may as well trade her cannons and hope she can’t handle them! Now I’ve got some cash (1400 gold) and I will upgrade my units. Then I’ll attack her!

1394 AD – Tokugawa does not know Astronomy, and if I managed to get up to +5 in relation, I could trade with him. However, I have a –1 on trading with his worst enemies, and only +5 on peace/fair trade. Even if I get rid of the –2 from wrong religion, it won’t help. So, I’ll change to confucianism in order to see more of the Egyptian Lands… Oh my god. Ohmygodogmygodohmygod. She has 29 units in her two north-west cities and 18 in her capital. Well, I may just as well go down with a bang. But I can’t declare on her, since the other AI like her. So, I will offend her and hope she declares (-13 in relation).

1406 AD – Again Gandhi wants me to join the war against Peter. Of course I refuse.

1430 AD – She still wont declare, even though I have –19 towards her. I’ll give it two more turns, then I’ll DoW myself. And I’ve passed Peter in score!Fourth Egyptians Wars1442 AD – Time is up, I’ll tell her the usual thing regarding her head and the pole. War! Culture up one notch, and whip a couple of happiness buildings (theatres and forges). I note down the number of units she has in her city to keep track of how many loose units she may field. Trading Steel was very, very, very stupid.

North-western cities
Hieraconpolis: 11
Byblos: 18

North-eastern cities
Lisht: 2
Thebes: 18

1448 AD – She fields a stack of 8 units from the north-west. Not that bad, I can take it. She moves a couple of units from her north-eastern cities, but I wait for them. My first target is the city just south of the capital.

1454 AD – Abydos captured. I keep it since I want the dear. Forge and Courthouse survive.

1466 AD – Hatshepsut attacks my border cities, but don’t loose many units. Then there’s some great news. Toynbee has completed his greatest work: The Largest Civilizations of the World:

Roosevelt
Gandhi
Tokugawa
Me <===============
Hatshepsut
Cyrus
Peter

I destroy the Egyptian stack from north-west, although there is another stack with 4 units on the way, which will be a minor nuisance.

1496 AD – Good news! Tokugawa adopts Free Religion, removing the penalty from my religion. And he become pleased although we have only +4 in relation! So I can trade!!! I now have a choice. I can get him to fight Hatchepsut, or get Scientific Method. I choose the path of war. The Japanese have cities on our continent, and could actually make a difference in my war against the Egyptians. I also get 190 gold and Banking. Lisht is captured. Raze! Die swine! Burn!!! (133 gold). I send a large amount of units towards Thebes, relying on Hatshepsut to send all her mobile units towards Tokugawa.

1523 AD – Peter request me to start war with Gandhi. I oblige. We swap maps. Thebes have 9 riflemen, 2 damaged cannons, and one knight (12 units). I have 13 cannons, 8 grenadiers, and four weak units (25 units). Hatshepsut has a large stack next to Elephantine (which has no defences). It’s now or never. Charge!
Cannon – loose
Cannon – loose
Cannon – loose
Cannon – loose
Cannon – loose
Cannon – loose
Dammit, I need a victory soon!
Cannon – loose
Cannon – win (rifle)
Cannon – win (rifle)
Gren – win (rifle)
Gren – win (rifle)
Gren – win (rifle)
Gren – win (rifle)
Gren – win (rifle)
Gren – win (knight)
Cannon – win (rifle)
Cannon – win (rifle)
Swordsman – win (cannon)
Cannon – win (cannon)
How sweat are not the words: “You have captured Thebes”! She is stuborn: I get World Map, 190 gold and 10 gpt. I’ll take that. Now I just need to get peace with Gandhi…

Total units killed in third Egyptian Wars:
Grenadier 10
Rifleman 16
Knight 17
Cannon 12

Sum= 55

Total units lost in third Egyptian Wars:
Grenadier 6
Pikeman 1
Knight 1
Longbowman 1
Cannon 9

Sum = 18

Ratio: 3/1Race for the UN1529 AD – Roosevelt has Destroyers and Infantry (Gandhi still have Riflemen). I have reached my goal to capture the Egyptian capital. I don’t have any illusions left. I’ll baseline my research to Massmedia. Then we’ll see what happens. No more wars if I can decide. Research is at 377 rpt + 2 gpt. Next turn is Scientific Methods. Let’s see how much it will drop.

1532 AD – Scientific Method. Impressive date. NOT! (Actually I had a quicker tech pace in this game compared to many other games) Research dropped to 352 (-25 btp). Neither Peter nor Tokugawa has Physics (21 turns). Cyrus has SAMs. Cyrus and Roosevelt have defensive pact.

1544 AD – Hatshepsut captures one Japanese city, and Tokugawa captures another Egyptian city. Wonderful! Gandhi will only accept peace for money. I can wait.

1568 AD – Cyrus completes Broadway. I burn Great Artist in Thebes to get some push on the nearby tiles.

I mainly click this through now to at least experience the launch. Cyrus completes Apollo Program 1577 AD. Roosevelt completes it 1580 AD.

1583 AD – Physics done, Electricity next. Roosevelt demands that I cancel my deals with the Japanese. I wouldn’t think so. I trade Physics to Peter for Education, Theology and World Map. And I get Replacable Parts, 1000 gold and War with Gandhi from Tokugawa.

Roosevelt closes border with me. I hope he values his defensive pact with Cyrus more than war with me…

1619 AD – Research is running at 70% (469 bpt and +9 gpt). Cities are mainly building banks and universities.

1634 AD – Electricity done, Radio next (26 turns). Trade with Peter (get Steam Power). Trade with Tokugawa (get Rifling). Sell to Hatshepsut for 380 gold. Make peace with Gandhi for 360 gold (he’s got tanks).

1643 AD – The Most Powerful …
Roosevelt
Cyrus
Gandhi
Tokugawa
Hatshepsut
Me <=== look, I’m not last! I’m not last!
Peter

1652 AD – Cyrus completes Manhattan. Woe to the world!

1655 AD – Gandhi agrees on open borders although he’s furious with me. Strange guy.

1667 AD – Research up to 556 bpt (+18 gpt)

1670 AD – Spy destroys copper mine. I love deity…Really, this is not fun any more. Please launch! Great engineer born.

1697 AD – Radio. Mass Media next (12 turns). Trade with Peter for Divine Right and Nationalism. I sign defensive pact with Tokugawa (we have same enemies). Peter has a pact with Tokugawa too.

1700 AD – Trade Radio and Divine Right to Tokugawa for Railroad. Gandhi has Mass Media.

1706 AD – It was an Egyptian spy (killed)

1730 AD – Mass Media done. No-one else but Gandhi has it. I burn the Great Engineer and have 7 turn left.

1734 AD – Gandhi completes the UN, 5 turns before me. Dammit. I trade Mass Media to Tokugawa for Economics, Liberalism and 170 gold. I trade it to Cyrus for Constitution and 1070 gold. I sell it to Roosevelt for 390 gold (upgrades him to Cautious). Then Open Border with him. I sell to Hatshepsut for 270 gold. I switch civics to make friends and remove my religion. I may loose some score but I want to see if I could have managed to win a diplomatic victory.Final years1740 AD – Time to vote: Roosevelt or Gandhi. I pick Roosevelt.

1742 AD – Roosevelt wins:
Gandhi has 276 votes
Huayna has 133 votes
Roosevelt has 229 votes
Hatshepsut has 120 votes
Cyrus has 200 votes
Tokugawa has 211 votes
Peter has 26 votes

I trade away Representation, Liberalism and Mass Media to Peter for Combustion. My relations are now Friendly, Pleased, Pleased, Cautious, Annoyed and Furious.

1748 AD – Vote for Open Market

1752 AD – Artillery done. Biology next.

1756 AD – Roosevelt wants Environmentalism. I don’t have no health problems and not many forest tiles so I vote no.

1758 AD – The price on wood suddenly skyrockets as it is no longer permitted to cut down trees in the Incan Empire. Foreign agents are hugging all of them, telling us how important they are to the survival of the human species. And they back up their words with Nukes. We don’t understand what it’s all about, but we comply (why don’t they vote for Emancipation?)

1762 AD – Biology done. Rocketry next. One of the goals in this game was to understand what happened when they launch. Rocketry will do for that.

1766 AD – I trade Mass Media to Peter for Corporation.

1768 AD – Research at 80% (1009 bpt and 17 gpt).

1776 AD – War between Gandhi and Peter. Tokugawa has defensive pact with Peter, and joins the fray. My first destroyer is completed.

1778 AD – Rocketry done.

1780 AD – Finally, vote for Emancipation. I start building the Apollo Program.

1782 AD – The Incan People is finally liberated. We adopt Emancipation, and thus are a worthy member of the modern society. And we all watch into the skies to witness the Americans take the step towards the sky.

Final scores

Gandhi – 4018
Roosevelt – 3718
Cyrus – 3291
Tokugawa – 2753
Hatshepsut – 2459
Me – 2328
Peter – 1291Base score: 2328
Final score: 4656
Spaceship Loss to America
Challenger class

Achivements:
Captured Egyptian Capital
5 Turns from building the UN
Started the Apollo Project
Didn’t loose any cities.

Mistakes:
Should not have built the sixth city.
Should not have attacked Hatshepsut the fourth time.
Should have explored earlier.
Should have skipped Literature.
Should not have adopted a religion.

Research Analysis
I have written a script that extracts the year each tech is discovered from the log and calculates the accumulated beakers. This gives a rough indication of the research pace and I have mapped my progress against Gnejs. He manages to trade more than me in the beginning, while my extra cities provide a quicker pace at the end. The line is red during my wars with Hatshepsut.

Notes:
Capturing a capital does not affect a civilization on Deity level as it does on lower levels.
I think the map was favourable with the exception of the problem with tech trade early on. I look forward to the next Deity (and Immortal) GOTM. As usual i would like to thank the GOTM team for their effort. As usual I would appreciate any comments on how to improve my play.

Spaceship loss to America in 1756. Attempting to win by culture.

Second attempt in GOTM for a cultural victory. Far better than GOTM4 where I got a rather rude wake-up call from Alex in 1025 BC. Nine cities (got a tenth from Hatty by cultural conversion), three religions. Switched to full (or 90%) cultural at 1136 AD. Culture in my cities at the end in the range 53K to 63 K (counting also an unused GA).

No problem to survive. Popularity with Hatty peaked at +22 and DP with Hatty, Roosevelt and Cyrus (when they were not in war). Peter eliminated and Toku also in serious problem.

I think a cultural victory should have been possible. My first priority was survival and I didn't focus on cultural victory until around 0 AD.

Coastal blockade doesn't exist in civ4. Any unit can attack amphibiously, but without the amphibious promotion they get a 50 percent attack-penalty.
Oh, really? I didn’t know that. I think I have even waited for amphibious units to attack single-tile island cities in another game.

Thank you very much.


1730 AD – Mass Media done. No-one else but Gandhi has it. I burn the Great Engineer and have 7 turn left.
1734 AD – Gandhi completes the UN, 5 turns before me. Dammit.
... As usual I would appreciate any comments on how to improve my play.

Your game was much more successful than mine, but I will try anyway.

What about using the GE the turn you discover MM and then revolting to US? The following turn you rushbuy the rest of the UN and the following turn both you and Gandhi finish the UN at the same time, so you get it.

What about using the GE the turn you discover MM and then revolting to US? The following turn you rushbuy the rest of the UN and the following turn both you and Gandhi finish the UN at the same time, so you get it.

Thanks for the advice, the thought never occured to me. I'm not sure if it takes just one turn to revolt at this stage of the game, but even if it does, I wouldn't have much funds to buy 7 turns of UN production (optimising the research to reach MM as quick as possible leads to less than 100 gold on the turn I learned MM). And more important, I didn't know Democracy :lol:

Well, finally finished the game off.

First GOTM ever, never played above prince before, so went for Adventurer start. Unfortunately read too much pre game info and went for a Quecha rush. Should have stuck to my normal game plan. Got hammered silly by Barbarians early on too. Took a week off playing after I got to ~600AD as it wasn't fun to play anymore. Came back today, read the 1st spoilers and saw I wasn't alone and not doing much worse than quite a few others.

Eventually ended up with 8 cities, but was hemmed in by Hasheput's culture and very forward placed cities. To top it off, every other Civ bar Peter dumped a city on my continent. Ghandi beat me by a couple of turns to the smaller peninsular to the west of the start in the 1000AD ish mark

Ended up making friends as best I could as I was going nowhere fast (Def Pact with Cyrus & Roosevelt). Got quite a few techs gifted to me. Around 800AD I decided that 1000points was the goal for this game. Ended up with 1059 thanks to a late tech gift of Education from Roosevelt

Roosevelt took a Diplomatic win in 1724, but him, Ghandi and Hasheput were all neck and neck in a space race too

Think I'll play it again. With the knowledge of hindsight and sticking to my normal gameplan, I may go better this time and lose by a slightly smaller margin.
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