View Full Version : Which leader do you hate most?


aronnax
Feb 19, 2007, 08:58 AM
I always wondered who was theTop 10 most hated leader.

Anyway i have my money on Isabella followed by Monty

KMadCandy
Feb 19, 2007, 09:07 AM
hmm. lately i've been playing games with specific goals in mind for QM, and picking opponents since HoF allows that.

but when i do play with random for a normal game...

i don't hate isabella. i like having her in the mix so i can swear at her and roll my eyes at her fanaticism.

i do hate monty. he's a lunatic that i've never found any use for and his psychotic determination to win means that his mood swings and declarations of war can be actually dangerous even when i'm ahead of him techwise.

toku's probably #2 of the ones i can think of atm. he's just so stingy and won't even open borders. his mother never taught him to share.

if the first two civs i meet are monty and toku, i consider starting another game depending on if i'm in the mood to deal with that dynamic duo or not.

are isabella and monty your #1 and #2, or just who you think will top the list? if the latter, who do you hate the most?

Capt Buttkick
Feb 19, 2007, 09:31 AM
Toku, then Monty.
I know Izzy is unreliable and all, but at least she's good for some trading when you first meet her (unless you're already in another rel, of course).

I have never been able to trade with Toku, he's just :crazyeye:

Blaarg
Feb 19, 2007, 09:56 AM
Toku, then Monty.
I know Izzy is unreliable and all, but at least she's good for some trading when you first meet her (unless you're already in another rel, of course).

I have never been able to trade with Toku, he's just :crazyeye:

That's just his personality. He's the isolationist of Civ, as such he predictably rarely gives open borders and never trades tech, I think. His favorite civic is also mercantilism, an isolationist's civic. While he is pretty agressive, not nearly as much as Monty/Alex/Napoleon/etc, however an isolationist, he's ussually pretty backward.

feldmarshall
Feb 19, 2007, 10:17 AM
i hate gengis khan the most because he is warmonger and always asking for tributes. Monty is also warmonger but he usually has weak military so i can conquer his lands without having -you declared war penalty (i play warlord level btw)

[edit] hmm.. maybe that's just because my recent "trauma", when genghis ruined my victory(time) by declaring war on me followed by some AIs on last century

flamingzaroc121
Feb 19, 2007, 10:58 AM
i actually like izzy because usually she spreads a religion to me, i adopt it and then she trades practicaly everything, even AFTER i have declared war

Capt Buttkick
Feb 19, 2007, 12:22 PM
That's just his personality. He's the isolationist of Civ, as such he predictably rarely gives open borders and never trades tech, I think. His favorite civic is also mercantilism, an isolationist's civic. While he is pretty agressive, not nearly as much as Monty/Alex/Napoleon/etc, however an isolationist, he's ussually pretty backward.

Yeah, I know it's his personality. I guess I'm more the caring, sharing type compared to him :D
And when they least expect it... :hammer:
:cool:

kristopherb
Feb 19, 2007, 12:54 PM
issy religion freak

Azander
Feb 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
I really hate Genghis Khan, he's always so negative! Although i hate to play against Izzy as well, I like her personality :D She's such a drama queen

LucyDuke
Feb 19, 2007, 03:35 PM
I can't stand Tokugawa. There is no way to crack that shell, and he's Agg/Pro so it's not a cakewalk to take him out of the equation, either. I realize he's supposed to be a cold, isolationist bastard, but that doesn't mean I can't dislike him for it.

Monty can be a pain, but he's easy to deal with. Throw a stick, he'll go fetch it, throw it again, he'll play this game forever. He's pretty cheap, too. No wonder he's commonly cited as an attack dog.

Isabella is a total religious nut, but same as Monty, if you need to you can use it to your advantage. If she's close enough to pose a threat, she's close enough that you can catch her religion, convert to it, and send her off to attack someone else.

And I'm not a fan of Gandhi, he's #2 on my bad list. I just can't trust the guy.

Shawnosaurus
Feb 19, 2007, 04:06 PM
Looks like the Civ IV Axis of Evil™ according to the poll is Montezuma, Tokugawa and Isabella.

I'd have to agree that those 3 are the tried and true bastards of Civ. Some other leader here and there might have a bad round, but you can rely on these 3 to be really mental. For me personally, Monty is the worst.

It bothers me that the AI will contact you (Monty does this all the damn time) when they are Furious towards you and ask you to cancel all deals with the Civ with whom you are Friendly and in a defensive pact with. Worse yet is when the furious civ is in last place and your friendly civ is one of the top in score.

"Oh yea Monty, thanks for asking. It hadn't occurred to me that I should abandon my powerful defensive and trading partner of the last 5000 years at the whim of some spaz with a stupid hat that won't even give up an open borders agreement. What's the drama anyways, did they not trade crabs to you when you wanted it? Moron. Yea yea, I'm sure I'll regret it. Talk to you next turn when you're violently offended about some other random civ because they won't give you a free tech."

Maybe we should be able to block incoming calls from some countries :)

br_casino
Feb 19, 2007, 04:09 PM
Yeah, I just met up with Monty and I was already his worst enemy! Sheesh

Rancid Sushi
Feb 19, 2007, 04:13 PM
Wow, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Catherine. She's very hard to get along with and has attacked me in pretty much every game. Also, I hate her dialogue. Napoleon is another backwards guy who just seems to research military techs and buil enormous armies. Just last game I killed 40+ of his cavalry after making a surprise sea-invasion on Paris. Crazy midget.

KMadCandy
Feb 19, 2007, 04:22 PM
*hiss* catherine. she will actually go to war when she's *friendly* with you ... not even monty does that. i hardly ever put her in my games. there's just no point to working her up to friendly if she's THAT moody.

Otkell
Feb 19, 2007, 04:26 PM
Not so much that i hate him but... Mansa is REALLY annoying. He's always asking you to be his vassal. The first time he asked me, i stupidly said yes and found myself at war with Julius Caesar whom i was trying to get a perm alliance with.

Rancid Sushi
Feb 19, 2007, 04:45 PM
Not so much that i hate him but... Mansa is REALLY annoying. He's always asking you to be his vassal. The first time he asked me, i stupidly said yes and found myself at war with Julius Caesar whom i was trying to get a perm alliance with.

Never knew you could become some one else's vassal in AI games. That sucks.

SwordofStriker
Feb 19, 2007, 05:37 PM
I think Mansa Musa was asking to BECOME a vassal since to this day I have never once been asked to be a vassal and I have had some pretty humiliating defeats to the AI. I even hoped to be asked, but never was. Plus if you accepted his offer to become your vassal, you would automatically end up in war with whoever he was fighting.

I picked Izzy though because she just seems to hate me. It must be because she and I both like to establish religion and we NEVER have the same state religion. Really though, she's just mean to me and conquistadores are all bullies.

Blaarg
Feb 19, 2007, 06:26 PM
I'm suprised Alexander and Napoleon aren't more dispised.

Otkell
Feb 19, 2007, 08:28 PM
Sorry english isnt my first language.

I meant he ask me to be MY vassal

druidravi
Feb 19, 2007, 10:31 PM
I hate Alex , Monty I know will always attack me and will be a bit technologically backward and easier to take out. But that Alex attacks me when I am his best friend that too with a good stack. He also keeps up technologically.

Mercenary82
Feb 20, 2007, 12:19 AM
Funny how Monty and Izzy are hated most, I almost always tend to get along with both of them, but I guess it just depends on playstyle. I tend to warmonger a lot and always try to bribe AI's in to it, which means I usually end up switching to Izzy's or Monty's religion and from that point I constantly bribe them to attack people. Seeing as these 2 are the most bribable AI, I see it as a waste to kill them first, much better to befriend them.


The AI I hate most is Mansa Musa and Huayna Capac, these 2 idiots have a ridiculosly high tech rate and constantly screw my games up by causing all the techs to come way too fast, due to them researching and trading like crazy.

Gorman Truart
Feb 20, 2007, 01:29 AM
Toku is the worst. There's no way to trade with him, or bribe him, or make him of use to you in any way. The only thing he's good for is conquering.

Rancid Sushi
Feb 20, 2007, 01:35 AM
The AI I hate most is Mansa Musa and Huayna Capac, these 2 idiots have a ridiculosly high tech rate and constantly screw my games up by causing all the techs to come way too fast, due to them researching and trading like crazy.


I also have the same problem with Asoka and Cyrus. Still, I learned from my last game that it's more important build up power to kill the nutjobs with high power ratings first, even if they're not the tech leaders.

CivSetä
Feb 20, 2007, 02:20 AM
I really hate Mansa Musa. That guy can tech really fast even if his land consist of some desert or tundra. He is the one who usually manages to get liberalism one turn before me...

aronnax
Feb 20, 2007, 02:59 AM
We hate Issy cause she's a religious nutcase,
We hate Monty cause he has a land conquering craze.

We hate Mansa cause he is so #$%^! advance,
We hate Napoleleon cause he is expanding France!

We hate Genghis cause he is a backstabbing f***
and We hate Togu cause he told me i suck!

Mehmed100
Feb 20, 2007, 10:18 AM
We hate Issy cause she's a religious nutcase,
We hate Monty cause he has a land conquering craze.

We hate Mansa cause he is so #$%^! advance,
We hate Napoleleon cause he is expanding France!

We hate Genghis cause he is a backstabbing f***
and We hate Togu cause he told me i suck!

:rotfl: :lol: :lol: My thoughts exactly.

LucyDuke
Feb 20, 2007, 10:30 AM
We hate Issy cause she's a religious nutcase,
We hate Monty cause he has a land conquering craze.

We hate Mansa cause he is so #$%^! advance,
We hate Napoleleon cause he is expanding France!

We hate Genghis cause he is a backstabbing f***
and We hate Togu cause he told me i suck!

And aronnax wins the thread! ;)

KMadCandy
Feb 20, 2007, 10:55 AM
i posted that monty is the one i hate the most, but then thought some more and actually voted for toku. however...

i need a time victory for QM. i have decided to be monty, duel size pangaea, and only ever settle one city, to not trigger domination. the plan is to surround my victim's city with units, totally cripple him, but leave him alive so that of course i don't win by conquering either. it will be my first time being monty. should be interesting to see if i can be anywhere near as psycho as he is. perhaps it will teach me to relate to his issues and be more forgiving of him in the future? nah.

i have chosen mehmed to pick on. i figure expansive/organized are the best traits for my victim to have muhahaha.

aronnax
Feb 20, 2007, 07:59 PM
i posted that monty is the one i hate the most, but then thought some more and actually voted for toku. however...

i need a time victory for QM. i have decided to be monty, duel size pangaea, and only ever settle one city, to not trigger domination. the plan is to surround my victim's city with units, totally cripple him, but leave him alive so that of course i don't win by conquering either. it will be my first time being monty. should be interesting to see if i can be anywhere near as psycho as he is. perhaps it will teach me to relate to his issues and be more forgiving of him in the future? nah.

i have chosen mehmed to pick on. i figure expansive/organized are the best traits for my victim to have muhahaha.


Don't forget to scream at them regulary for not giving you 10 coins!

Tristan daCunha
Feb 21, 2007, 12:51 AM
Wow, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Catherine.
She is such a pain. Gimme, gimme, gimme.... and she despises me with -2 penalties when I turn her down.

Otkell, yes, Mansa's constant whining to be my vassal gets on my nerves too.

Rancid Sushi
Feb 21, 2007, 02:45 AM
She is such a pain. Gimme, gimme, gimme.... and she despises me with -2 penalties when I turn her down.

Otkell, yes, Mansa's constant whining to be my vassal gets on my nerves too.

Yeah, I make it a point to kill her before I ever have to see a single Cossack. Mansa isn't so bad. At least he's always willing to trade techs, and since he's such a fast techer I find him to be one of the few leaders who are actually useful as vassals.

aronnax
Feb 21, 2007, 03:25 AM
Mansa isn't so bad. At least he's always willing to trade techs, and since he's such a fast techer I find him to be one of the few leaders who are actually useful as vassals.

Not when he drags you into several wars resulting in you attacking Julius....

Quaetam
Feb 22, 2007, 08:08 PM
I have my own problems with Monty and Izz. Monty is so annoying; mostly for the fact that he's always annoyed at you, while Izz is a religious frekin fanatic who gets so mad when you don't follow her faith!

I usually play as Alex for his military/culture bonuses, so I don't know much about him.

Gandhi REALLY bugs me; Three times now I've had him attack me out of nowhere. (Peace is the way my ***!)

Toku is anoying for pretty much the same reason as Monty, and for the fact that I have this weird bug where his eyes bulge for about a second occasionally when I enter diplomacy. (the same thing has happened for Monty once as well)

I hate Saladin for his Camel Archers; those things are SO ANNOYING! He slaughtered my army of MUSKETS with them!!

However I posted I hate Hatty particularly because she went nuke happy on me near the end of a particularly epic prince game.

MilesGregarius
Feb 22, 2007, 11:15 PM
I don't mind Toku, Izzy, or Monty. They're annoying but they're almost always so weak as to be inconsequential. I can't remember a single game where any of the three were a threat either militarily, on points, or pushing for a space victory.

Catherine, on the other hand, is a right pain in the backside. She's always well set for land, techs, and power. And when she attacks, which she almost always seems to do late game, she can actually pose a legit challenge.

Jorunkun
Feb 23, 2007, 02:52 AM
I don't mind Toku, Izzy, or Monty. They're annoying but they're almost always so weak as to be inconsequential. I can't remember a single game where any of the three were a threat either militarily, on points, or pushing for a space victory.

Catherine, on the other hand, is a right pain in the backside. She's always well set for land, techs, and power. And when she attacks, which she almost always seems to do late game, she can actually pose a legit challenge.

Well, Monty (and the other psychotic early rushers like HC, Genghis and Alex) are very dangerous in the early game - especially if you play emperor and above, where being rushed early basically means game over, even if you withstand the onslaught. Hate it when that happens.

Would agree though that from the mid-game on, Cathy (and Isabella, imho) are often very powerful.

One note on Tokugawa: He CAN be turned into an ally by trading/gifting ressources and giving him a sweet deal on tech, which usually causes him to open his borders. If you manage to get the same religion, you'll likely be friends for the rest of the game.

Winston Hughes
Feb 23, 2007, 06:05 AM
I voted Cathy, because she always hates you, no matter what. Even when she's 'Friendly', she's still looking for the first opportunity to sour relations with some kind of outrageous demand, or to send wave after wave of Cossacks pouring across your border. And then there's the decidedly unappealing combination of aggressive flirting and physical violence you get when talking to her.

My policy is never to let the manipulative witch see out the game. I've even carried on after a victory, just to rain down nuclear death upon her. It's the principle of the thing; I really don't like being alternately seduced and slapped around (she reminds me of a particularly odious ex-girlfriend of mine in that respect).

azzaman333
Feb 23, 2007, 09:28 AM
Tokugawa by far. I can never get along with that guy. I have a rather large hate for any AI playing as the Aztecs in any game, but not specific to Monty. Izzy's a b****, but she's normally too weak to do any serious damage.

Gaius Octavius
Feb 23, 2007, 08:53 PM
I put Montezuma because he's declared war on me several times during a game even though we were on opposite sides of a continent and my military easily defeated his invasion force every time. Really annoying.

I imagine some people might not like Julius, too...I know when I play as him, the other civs sure don't. :) Of course, they aren't around too long so it doesn't matter...

The-Hawk
Feb 24, 2007, 09:26 AM
Alex - unpredictable backstabber. He also made the mistake of backstabbing me in several of my first attempts at CIV so he holds a special place in my heart... I usually kill him on sight. (ok, maybe I'm not very forgiving :D )

I don't mind Monty, pretty much know what he is gonna do. :rolleyes:

ZB2
Feb 24, 2007, 09:41 AM
i only play the earth scenarios and saladin never opens borders to share his oil or tokugawa... just does nothing.

Saladin is the biggest pain in the ass though.

Gaius Octavius
Feb 24, 2007, 09:37 PM
Saladin never opens his borders to share his oil? How ironic... :lol:

rhawn
Feb 25, 2007, 02:15 AM
I definitely hate Mansa Musa the most. His UU makes him difficult to conquer before cats unless you have praets or overwhelming numbers. He also techs at a ridiculous rate compared to most other AIs. Also whenever he isn't a major world player he becomes an obnoxious toady and wants to vassalize himself to any major power. If you decline him he'll often vassalize himself to an AI which you are warring or if you accept him as your vassal and end up warring with someone you don't necessarily want to at the moment only to find Mansa withdrawing from vassalage ten turns later.

LucyDuke
Feb 25, 2007, 03:07 AM
It's noteworthy that the leading contenders (Montezuma, Isabella, Mansa Musa, Alexander, Tokugawa) are the only leaders available for their respective civs. I don't usually handpick my opponents, I always open with "custom game" but leave most slots open to random. However, if I'm not in the mood for Catherine's or Genghis's crap, I can select Stalin or Kublai as opponents and guarantee that Catherine and Genghis won't be in the game, while still leaving the bulk random. That option isn't available for the Most Hated Leaders™. It also doesn't work if you want no Russians at all.

That sort of back-door de-selection would be made easier by a different approach to selecting opponents. Rather than selecting a specific leader or a "random" leader with no qualifications, it would make more sense (and be more user-friendly) to qualify the random selection. You could indicate that certain leaders or even civs must not be included in the pool. It would probably be very easy to implement, I imagine.

The point is that we need to be able to exclude these bastards without handpicking every other opponent. It should work with traits as well, like "exclude all protective leaders" or "include all spiritual leaders" or whatever.

It is very late and I'm not strictly sober and I think that the coherence of this post probably reflects that, but I hope I got my point across. :sleep:

ZB2
Feb 25, 2007, 05:22 PM
you sure did. Id want to see a random Trait association when starting a custom game. all leaders get some random traits, forget about those 'forbiden' ones, if someone does join the game with Financial and Organized, then you should adjust your Diplomatic strategy arcodingly.

Mercenary82
Feb 25, 2007, 05:30 PM
The point is that we need to be able to exclude these bastards without handpicking every other opponent. It should work with traits as well, like "exclude all protective leaders" or "include all spiritual leaders" or whatever.


I find myself doing this in most of my games now, I simply made a mod folder with a custom XML leaderhead info file, with leaders like Mansa Musa missing. This way I can still leave everything random and not have to worry about having any of those jerks in my game.

Infantry#14
Feb 26, 2007, 12:39 AM
I dont like Mana Musa for being too advance all the time and I dont like Victoria for being too ugly

aronnax
Feb 26, 2007, 05:36 AM
Only Bismarck, Fredrick, Elizibeth, Zedong, Peter and Washington are not hated, Lets see who can still not be hated!

Mercenary82
Feb 26, 2007, 07:40 PM
Nobody hates Elizabeth? I only hate Mansa Musa and Huayna Capac more.
She is another annoying techwhore, even worse most of her techs she can trade are redded out.

@war
Feb 26, 2007, 10:31 PM
I guess I am one of four.. I hate Louis he is a teching, border pushing, wonder hogging, aggressive pain to me.

JERFit
Feb 26, 2007, 11:41 PM
I voted Cathy, because she always hates you, no matter what. Even when she's 'Friendly', she's still looking for the first opportunity to sour relations with some kind of outrageous demand, or to send wave after wave of Cossacks pouring across your border. And then there's the decidedly unappealing combination of aggressive flirting and physical violence you get when talking to her.

My policy is never to let the manipulative witch see out the game. I've even carried on after a victory, just to rain down nuclear death upon her. It's the principle of the thing; I really don't like being alternately seduced and slapped around (she reminds me of a particularly odious ex-girlfriend of mine in that respect).

Cathy's a hot babe, I always give her everything she wants no questions asked. I'm a masochist, so I kinda like it when she abuses me ;)

I hate Ghandi, my first 5 matches in CIV that involved Ghandi, I kissed his ass the ENTIRE game, but he never became friendly with me. Come election time, he ALWAYS voted for my opponent. Can't stand that guy...

Still happens nearly every match to this day actually...

bonafide11
Feb 27, 2007, 01:43 AM
I can't stand Louis personally... The guy drives me nuts, his borders are always spreading a lot and he is untrustworthy...

I actually like Monty and Izzy though. Both are fun to play with because you know how they'll respond. You just have to keep them busy with other people. Before Monty declares war on you, just trade him some tech to declare war on someone else and he'll usually do it. This is by far the best way to get a warmonger off your back.

Cosmichail
Feb 27, 2007, 02:01 AM
I don't discriminate "I hate everybody"........

aronnax
Mar 02, 2007, 10:18 AM
I don't discriminate "I hate everybody"........

lol dont we all

ZB2
Mar 03, 2007, 02:26 PM
I don't discriminate "I hate everybody"........

hahaha. Thats my new montra. hate all AI.

SkippyT
Mar 03, 2007, 02:35 PM
Worst enemies
1. Isabella
2. Alexander
3. Tokugawa
4. Shaka
5. Catherine (pretty, but annoying)

Best friends
1. Hatshepsut
2. Montezuma
3. Qin Shi Huang
4. Churchill
5. Mehmed II

Shoot the Moon
Mar 03, 2007, 10:55 PM
Mansa on the other continent.....:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

Breunor
Mar 09, 2007, 07:20 PM
I'd put Wang Kon first. He always techs up, but unlike Mansa, he's protective so is a pain to take out.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Neoclast
Mar 11, 2007, 12:22 PM
I voted Washington... I am tired of being Friendly with him, yet he won't even trade me a world map because he does not like me enough.

Evil_Himmler
Mar 12, 2007, 09:59 PM
montezuma by far. always wants something for free or is trying to order me around. i always plan on warring him.

Idlenessss
Mar 14, 2007, 05:59 AM
Whats wrong with civs that attack you? They give your units experience and all which lets you customize them in cool ways. I love monty. If you dont wanna bother with a war then his tribute demands are not usually unreasonable. the civs i HATE are the ones with these nasty creativity so their stupid borders expand and take all your resources and when you cant stand it anymore and decide to destroy them you lose absolutely all your trade routes and it takes friggen forever to march in their lands. Also those obnoxious industrious civs who steal all the wonders that you actually need. Stupid civs that steal my colossus even tho they have only 1 or 2 crappy coastal cities.

LucyDuke
Mar 14, 2007, 10:43 AM
Whats wrong with civs that attack you? They give your units experience and all which lets you customize them in cool ways. I love monty. If you dont wanna bother with a war then his tribute demands are not usually unreasonable. the civs i HATE are the ones with these nasty creativity so their stupid borders expand and take all your resources and when you cant stand it anymore and decide to destroy them you lose absolutely all your trade routes and it takes friggen forever to march in their lands. Also those obnoxious industrious civs who steal all the wonders that you actually need. Stupid civs that steal my colossus even tho they have only 1 or 2 crappy coastal cities.

What's wrong with civs that build wonders for you? They build the wonders, you go capture them, and that lets you use your hammers on all sorts of other things.

Just different playstyles. I don't mind war, it's just a lot easier when you get to declare it so you're prepared. Civs that attack you don't let you plan things out the way you like. Civs that build your wonders don't let you plan things out the way you like.

Dominico
Mar 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
i Voted Alexnder, caus he attacks me for no reason and you must have been so angry about him you spelt his name wrong in the poll :D

I hate that guy... The fact he claims to be Greek just makes things worse, stupid Macedonian... :mad:

vra379971
Mar 14, 2007, 12:59 PM
I am most annoyed at Shaka and Alexander. Those two are nasty oppertunisits. If you're going to hate me, I'd rather you do so upfront.

Cristoval
Mar 14, 2007, 04:07 PM
I'm surprised to see Isabella got all those votes. I don't how she is in the game as an AI. Since i'm almost always Spain. Maybe I'll put her in a game, and see how it ends up.