Welcome to your C_IV Warlords SGOTM 4 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, fractal map, at Epic speed, against 7 rivals including India. All victory conditions are enabled except Diplomatic, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Space defeat by Gandhi.

Versions
This game will be played in Warlords Version 2.08 only.

It will be played using the current version of the HoF Mod. This is version 2.08.003 for Windows. There are insufficient Mac players to form a Mac team. so it will be played in Windows only.

If later versions of Warlords or the HoF Mod are released they cannot be used for this game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of February 23.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm4_start_small.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm4_start_large.jpg)

Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Ragnar of The Vikings
Rivals - 7 civs including Gandhi (who is locked in war with Ragnar)
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, cylindrical, medium sea level, temperate
Game Speed - Epic
Diplomatic Victory Disabled
All other settings are defaults

Notes

Please visit the C-IV Warlords SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=208462) to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

Warlords v.2.08 is supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with the same version throughout the game.

Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

Awards will be given to teams who achieve Space defeats to India in the least turns.

All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Please enjoy the game :)

6 views and no posts ? :hmm:

Roster check:
- Beorn
- KillerCane
- Softnum
- BCLG100
--
- ynnek

Checking in. Put me faaaarr back in the roster.

As already announced I don't have Warlords yet. Let's see when I get the money together.

I hope I can be helpful with my thoughts and discussions nevertheless.

I think I am the only one who played the Civ3SGOTM-Original of this.

So I might tell you how we went there.
India had a one tile island on an inland sea (so few contacts), we decided to decrease most civs to one city and build the GLib for India and waited for their galleys to transport units s.t. they can get the GLib.
They never built a galley (in all teams' games), so we were allowed to gift them a city at some point.
Despite them taking a large chunk of land, they only built Apollo's but no single space part probably due to being in war with us all the time.

I guess, this time they have tested it better to make sure that in Civ4 they can actually build a Spaceship.

Thoughts: First attack some and let India have some more cities later but be strong enough to prevent them to win in another condition.
But first see how India's position is in here. I guess they still start weak.

Checking in. I played in the Civ 3 version as well. This will play quite a bit differently.

Initial plans look to be settle in place. I would say, depending on our starting techs (never played Ragnar and too lazy to look ATM), nab fishing and then to BW, steal India's worker if possible, Oracle to Metalcasting for Colossus and Forges, Academy in capital, build lots of amphibious Vikings and kill people, upgrade them to amphibious grenadiers and kill people, let India take over a bunch of our lands, tell them to launch the ship. Easy huh?

We start with Hunting and Fishing, guess Im not that lazy.

Edit: Great Library type ploy might not work here (what is that wonder, Internet?). Better to have the Indians slow in the begining and gradualllllly let them improve their power and tech rate.

I was in the Civ3 SGOTM too. The elevator trick will still be applicable here with the internet, which is good.

I don't know how threatening a cultural victory is in C4, I haven't been playing long enough, but keeping a good tight leash on india is certainly sensible. Whacking our way around will be the first step in making sure we have everything we need to toss the Mahatma in space, so I'd set my mind on putting up 4-6 towns, building them up to have a basic core and start conquering from that point.

lurking:

I wish you good luck with this one and maybe you can beat the Russian team of Obormot :D

I hope it just won't be as painful as the C3C equivalent

So whats the turn order?

What are the immediate plans? On to Bronze working while building a fishboat?

We need husbandry for the pigs, and once we're there we'll have good food, so slavery will be a must. Fishing boat while doing husbandry then BW is what I'd do.

Ah but we need a worker to squeal those little piggies. How long for fishing boat and then worker? Can we get bronze first? Or will that not fit with research?

I vote for Workboat first, worker a little later. Building a workboat doesn't delay city growth and the worker gets done faster then.

Fishing boat first to allow ourselves to grow is sensible, especially with all the food around. We might grow to 3 even. By then we should have either agriculture for corn or husbandry (better) for pigs. We'll have plenty of forests to chop and a lot of food so BW is imperative - get it as a second tech?

On a side note, we don't have the wheel, so are we going to send a worker to improve tiles around and lose turns off roads? This might be my Civ 3 taking over, but it doesn't sound neat.

If we press science workboat-> worker slash BW-> AH will work, but it may take some micro to get the best result. CS slingshot takes too long in Warlords with this setup, maybe we use the Great Merchant from Colossus for CS.

Long term plans are ? How do we treat the other AIs? They can probably provide some useful research for a little bit of the game (not really later) so we shouldnt kill them too quickly.

Edit: Ha I didnt even note the wheat, I must be going blind. Hmm, maybe we push science, build WB, and grow to size 3 and whip the worker. Lets see what works best, I need to play with Ragnar a bit anyways. Noticed the plains hill too, surely we should settle there.

Checking in!

I was thinking about moving 1 tile north? Possibly put less ocean into our workable area. I know that's settling on the corn, but.


Just a thought anyway.

As far as cultural goes, the AI doesn't pursue it, and you generally can't 'accidentally' win that way. I haven't ever seen an AI get Cultural Victory.

I haven't played Always At War variant.... How does WW work? I assume this mean we can't ever trade India?

If we want our capital for main production city, settling 1N opens up at least 2 hills so the idea isn't bad, but with all the food around, I'd rather have a food-big capital and make our next cities worry about maximizing hammers (was about to say shields ;)).

Always war means whatever happens, we'll have to make sure we're at war with Gandhi (I'll let people worry for themselves about the knick knacks of vassalage in the maintenance thread) but we do want him to win. This means we need to contain Gandhi to prevent him from being able to swallow us, but we also need to plan for his future.

I have no idea how WW works in C4.Noticed the plains hill too, surely we should settle there.You mean right on spot, not N-NW, right?

2 North. Plains hill w/ all 3 food bonuses. Here is a better screenshot.

We should not settle on food bonus.

We are on a Plains Hill now. But 2N might give us more land / less Ocean area, which tends to be more flexible.

Then again, it might not. XD

Of course, we might be conveniently placed With Respect To Ghandi, too. so...

Also, please turn on resource bubbles in screen shots, normally? Obviously for this one we already know, but it makes distinguishing some things a lot easier.

Hmm you are right we are on plains hill. Does anyone else find Gyathaar's screenshot dark? Back to settle in place.

We wont work all those coast tiles effectively for a long time (after Colossus is obsolete). I dont see any reason to move.

Hmm you are right we are on plains hill. Does anyone else find Gyathaar's screenshot dark? Back to settle in place.

We wont work all those coast tiles effectively for a long time (after Colossus is obsolete). I donlt see any reason to move.

Probably wise. Besides, I suppose 3 commerce tiles are nothing to sneeze at.

Gyathaar is using Blue Marble, it looks like.

Gyathaar is using Blue Marble, it looks like.
I am not.. but AlanH (who took the screenshot) is... ;)

... not only using BlueMarble, but running it on a Mac :)

Show me what you would prefer to see?

... not only using BlueMarble, but running it on a Mac :)

Show me what you would prefer to see?

I run Blue Marble, too, so it's easier for me to pick out the differences, but those who don't may be unaccustomed.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512

Here's War Weariness calc, for those interested. It seems that it is halved for 'Always War' condition.

This was for vanilla, I take it the changes were minor if there were any. I gather that this means we can fight Gandhi back all we want and get away with it. So as long as Gandhi doesn't try to be a hero, this suits me just fine.

Hrm. I wonder where our other teammates are.. :/

Anyway, I'm all for settling in place. My personal Preference is WorkBoat/AH -> Worker / Bronze After that we can see vs. Warrior / Set (Maybe too early for set)

I also vote for settling in place. I see no reason to move.

Then start a workboat.

Who is the top competition besides CRC and Peanut? I pmed Simon (BCLG).

So we are working seafood until workboat/maxing science or mix in some more hammers for quicker workboat?

I think if you maximize food you should almost get to pop 3 before workboat completes. THat way you can go WOrk / Set right after that, rather then waiting with another Warrior for more pop. Working the Corn gives 3 food. THen corn / Seafood will give 5 extra at pop 2.

If I'm not messing up, we should just hit size 3 after the workboat - which leaves us time for quite nearly 2 techs. The road addict in me says wheel and agriculture, then go BW and then come up with pastures.

OTOH BW right off allows us chops, and then we can speed up a granary considerably on our way to pasture the piggies. Corn is not nearly as much food anyways. The pre-req to pottery is wheel, right?

Last viable alternative I can think of is to start with wheel + pottery, use the worker to road around and capture the pigs so that when we get agriculture, mining and BW, there are roads in place and he takes less time to work. But this is the road addict talking again.

Simon will show up soon, he wouldn't miss an opportunity to pump up his post count ;)

Honestly, I don't think we need the Health quite as much as the HFC from the improved tiles at this point in time.

Workboat = 45:hammers: = 23 Turns at 2 :hammers: / Turn, 15 turns at 3 :hammers: / Turn, and 12 turns at 4 :hammers: / Turn

Food to grow = 30 + (Current Pop * 3) (33 at 1 pop, 36 at 2 pop)

SO, at 3 :food: (3 on corn, 2 on Capital - 2 pop eating) it's 11 turns to grow. Then at 3 :food: again (3 corn, 2 capital, 2 coast / lake - 4 pop eating) it'll be 12 turns. at 4 :food: (3 corn, 3 pigs (border expand since then) and 2 capital - 4 pop eaten) it's 9 turns.

So it's 23 turns to grow to pop 3 if we work corn then coast. it's 20 turns if we work corn then pigs.

If we work coast then coast, it's 17 turns to 2 pop, 18 turns to 3 pop (35 turns)

If we work coast then corn or pigs it's 17 turns to pop 2, and 12 turns to pop 3 (29 turns total)

So I vote we go corn / Coast or coast / corn. In the latter set we could spend 6 turns on a warrior...

Checking in.

Food rich capital whilst also fairly good production, definatly settle in place. my thoughts;

Bronze first with capital set on work boat. Work boat completed with a warrior next. Until size 3 then a settler to be pumped out (should have warrior to go with as escort- regardless it should be close). This will hopefully grab us bronze unless bronze isnt close.

Its more important for us to be able to grab early bronze than work a couple of extra food tiles to grab us maybe 1 or 2 turns on a settler in the future.

Also Softnum welcome to the merry bunch that is cdz :)

B- roads are nowhere near as good as c3c, other that connecting up resources (which you only bother with if needed) then all you need is military roads :)

I like that thinking, Simon, there's something very out-of-my-box about it.

So now im on first name basis with everyone else, anyone else care to offer theirs ;)

btw just to confirm- we have to lose on purpose in the shortest time possible?

Lose TOO Ghandi's Space Victory int he shortest time possible.

I'm sorry, I like math, so I may do that sort of crap a lot. o.o

I'm 'Brendan' If you care.. But 'Danny' is shorter and easier. :)

I'm Frank and I wrestle bears. I'm on first name basis with bears, and that includes both carebears and radioactive toxic don'tcarebears like the yours.

My carebear has a gun and a plaster he is more 'street' than radioactive!

Its cool softnum- you can do the math none of the rest of us have the time/ effort to do :D

Whats the roster btw?

It's on the second post of the thread. I assume you're 4th or so. XD

What turns are we using? 20 15 10 10 10 10 etc? Or..?

first 3 players i think should maybe do 20/30 turn sets from then on maybe 10 :)

I'm more in favor of going 10ish and stop when something happens. So you get anywhere from 7 to 12 or so. First 1 or 2 sets may be longer.

I'm mostly just intimidated by your post counts. ^_^;;

In any case, I'm good with whatever.

It's good for me because I'm not yet familiar enough with CIV to do these maths - but I wish I was, and this helps a newbie. Has anyone come up with a good spreadsheet program à la Offa for CIV? Must be much more complicated with the carry-overs and build switches, but it would be awesome.

No, the HOF mod which is enforced in the SGOTM is quite usefull. TBH civ4 is as micro managed as you want it to be, you can quite easily get by upto immortal level without paying too much attention to everything :)

dont be intimidated by post counts, im probs the worst player on this team and i have the largest one :)

Roster:
- Beorn - playing
- KillerCane - on deck
- Softnum
- BCLG100
- ynnek

I pm'd our 6th dude with the link to here so he can holler back at us and be inserted somewhere in the roster.

I'll play to BW, see if we can get workboat - warrior -settler out and look at where he goes.

Alright, so I didn't write up a detailed turnlog, everyone in here can see how this came to happen; I'll try and find where the autolog sends his data next time.

So Iwent ahead, maximized food, built WB - scout - settler (in progress)

Research: Mining, BW and now on agriculture.

Meet the neighbor:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/W04CDZ-02.JPG

I went East from there and confirm East is a dead-end. Back from the trip, I found the west coast, but cannot confirm there is no opening to the SW.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/W04CDZ-01.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/W04CDZ-03.JPG

Bronze is secure, we have it, he doesn't. Now iron will be another story. To be continued - by killercane. I'm sorry to report that the chances of our scout surviving this turn are slim. We'll send a few good clams to his family.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/CDZ_SG004_BC3040_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Beorn do we have any other units except for that scout? for instance a couple of warriors one for the capital and one for settler duty. if not we should probably make them a priority.

Also beorn when you upload a save below that is a turn log of your events (if you do it through the SGOTM progress thing- which i think your meant too-not just uploading through regular SG means).

The save has been uploaded through the SGOTM server but I still am clueless about the turn log. I also have not found the turn number counter on the CIV interface (I did try F8) so I had a hard time keeping up there.

Warriors are an excellent suggestion, maybe we shouold pause the settler once this scout has been eaten so that we have someone to run the errands. This must be some more of my Civ 3 remnants.

Is there a particular reason you're going Agri and not AH directly? Pigs give +1 :food: more then the corn.

Also, there seems to be a lot of gold and gems about. Curious.

Where were you thinking on the set? Gold city? Bronze City? We have 86/2 43 turn until the Capital will put the Bronze into mine-able ares, without a monument or something. (Monument would only reduce to 28 turns)

I love the -11 'you declared war on us'.... :)

Ok rant time. I trust that the Canadian Bearman will not take offense, as I usually speak my mind.

Why are we in a hurry to play so quickly :confused:? What is the gameplan? Some ideas have been thrown around but nothing concrete. One teammate has not even shown up to the thread. We have not even agreed on research path or tiles to work.

City Builds
No one even mentioned the scout build, they are useless units in my opinion. Exploring is relatively useless in CIV w/o the ability to trade techs for some time. The initial scout should have been enough. We need a warrior to maybe get some easy promos but more importantly guard our next city site.

We need: a couple of warriors, a coupla settlers, and many workers. Some chariots and axes to spar with barbs wont hurt either in due time.

Rambling
We have bronze nearby, very good. Gold and gems about are also nice to have. All in all it is a good start position, no AIs very close so expansion and fast science should be in order. The Mongolian Mongrel to the south should be counted on to declare at some point if left alone; his start position looks to be very poor however. He shouldnt make any trouble for us.

Research path
Doing Agri right now is not as important for 2 reasons- 1) pigs give more food and 2) it would be nice to know where horses are. What next? Pottery is needed for metalcasting, do we do the metal slingshot? Research writing on the way after myst-med-priesthood?

Where should the next city go? Edit: I looked at the save. It looks to me like the settler needs to go NW or North to find some food. There is another plains hill to settle close by, will probably try to get up there with the scout if I can. There is a 2 sugar and corn site that could be a decent GP farm. And marble relatively close. Any thoughts on whipping settler? We need to revolt to slavery. Lots and lots of workers are needed to clear the jungle.

Upon further inspection, Karakorum is on floodplains, so they will be a decent enough AI probably.

Oh and where is Ghandi the Notoriously Slow Researcher? And BEF may be a warlords newbie but our score graph is great!

Thanks for the ramblings, this is why I signed up. You make no omelette without breaking eggs. Sorry for those who prefer more rounded shells.

The only ressource we need to actually claim is the marble. The rest we pretty much have for granted, Genghis has plenty of room to expand to the east and west.

Forgot about horses (would've made the decision clear), I hesitated but went for the one that costed the least worker turns. I figured by the time we have the worker we'd be a long way towards the other anyways. I did not play beyond researching BW so the bit of research is the carry-over (maybe 1 more turn at worst but I doubt it).

I usually revolt to slavery after my first settler is produced but before it settles, so that it doesn't lose a turn. A bit anal, but I actually never considered whipping a settler for some reason.

Mea culpa for the scout, I don't regret to feel the need to explore but I guess a few warriors would do the trick just fine.

Karakorum is on FP and they have an irrigated FP just right by that I spotted while passing by. It's not quite clam/pig/corn though.

I think bronze can wait a few turns so long as we need cheap city garrison and fog busters. I'd settle marble first, bronze second, gold after.

What's the casting slingshot? I'm totally unfamiliar with the intricacies of the tech tree, as you may have deduced. To answer the first question that pops to mind, I do know what metal casting is, however ;)

Slingshot: Building the Oracle & Researching Liberalism (Researching it FIRST, I should say) result in getting a 'free' tech. A slingshot refers to setting yourself up in such a way that when you get the Oracle or research Liberalism you're able to get an fairly advanced or fairly expensive tech.

And where the heck is Ghandi?

Monuments imo are one of the most useless buildings imo unless your charismatic. I think following bronze working research path should be- to alphabet, then drama then lit.

I'm not sure if its affected by level but predominantly my games the AI wont trade me poly till after ive grabbed drama, if we grab lit then we can build the great lib. This is of course highly focused on whether we can grab that marble and if we were to do so would be a highly aggressive first settling site.

For the immediate future, one turn on warrior- whip it, carry over into settler, switch back to warrior for a turn- whip it, carry that over into settler- by which time settler should be well on its way to being completed, i think a settler before a worker is more in order because we only have a couple of worker techs so far.

Also whats happened to our original unit- we started off with one didnt we?

Tbh the capital looks more like a jack of all trades master of none type city- at best it could make a half arsed GP farm. crack the colossus and a lighthouse in there and maybe could fuel a bit of commerce but it looks like its best use over the next few thousand years will be a settler and worker pump.

I would like however to point out the size 7 city out there! Khans capital looks like an excellant commerce city so i do hope he gets a religion started there.

Long run we should aim to take khan out about the time of maces, if we find someone else we like more (a non aggressive leader) before then i think we should try and cripple him with axes :)

@Softnum: and where does metal casting enter in play here? Is is a pre-requisite for something big?

Metalcasting allows forges and the Colossus, and also opens up Machinery which is a prerequisite for our UU (Machinery along w/ Civil Service). Colossus is a 4 science/turn wonder assuming we work 4 coast tiles. It is also cheap w/bronze. Great Library is a 6 sci/turn wonder w/ the added benefit of scientist points which we need.

Monuments are certainly useless, worse than temples in C3C IMO. If a monument is considered one may as well build Stonehenge and get some GPPs out of the deal. Or build a library, when costs 3 times as much but is worth many times what a monument is worth for the same effect (border expansion), great scientists-> Academy...double culture of monument...and increased science.

If we have no horses then the settler i will send up to the bronze, especially if there is food bonus there. Whipping the warriors sounds about right. This city has to be our Oracle town, so it needs some forests to chop when we have workers. Oracle town may work up north just fine if no food bonus, it needs a cultural expansion anyway. Capital may be a consideration for Oracle but this pollutes our GPPs from there. We also need a 3rd city by the gold, maybe on the plains there.

The original scout is in the west jungle a few turns from the gold hill. He will go up to scout our NW and North area.

MC is also damn expensive for where it is. Plus the Oracle is a Marble wonder, with the Marble right there, it suggests the slingshot.

I agree with the 'Claim the Marble' plan. It's very aggressive, but it'll help box Genghis in down there. Is Marble / Corn city a possibility? I can't tell front he Photos. That would be very aggressive, but give us food and hammers.

(Just FYI I wasn't suggesting Monument, just pointing out the only way I know of to speed culture, and it's effect. I generally don't build them. Religion FTW. )

BCLG's Settler Micro is useful. Don't forget that Whipping if you haven't invested any hammers in the project takes 1.5 times as much pop to complete, so the one turn spent 'building' the warrior is important.

Maaaath time:

I think we're at 4 :hammers: / Turn, but I'll do this for both 4 :hammers: and 5 :hammers: (I'm at work, no openy save)

Warrior = 15 :hammers:

1 Turn = 11 :hammers: left
Whip for 30 :hammers:

38 :hammers: (You get production the turn you whip) / 15 Hammers = 23 OVERRUN = 15 Hammer Cap = 15/100 Settler.

5 :hammers: will work out much the same way because of the cap.


So.. War(Whip)->War(Whip)->Set->War(Whip)->Set->Work?

Ok I will play tonight.

Im actually thinking about worker 3 turns, whip him out, overflow to settler or warrior, then settler helped by forest chop. Worker can chop, then prechop another forest and then improve pigs when AH comes in. Thoughts on this or anything else?

I like this City idea, but it's pretty far away, very aggressive.

148849

Red Dot has 1 extra Desert, but swaps some grassland for plains. There's also more room for a Gem / Sugar cite between them.

You can't make a Marble / Gold site (It would have to be on the water)

Could be a bit early for this too. Who knows...

I'm in love with worker before settler normally.

Softnum i meant, whip warrior- let overflow flow into settler take it off the build queue, then repeat.

I disagree with the worker next primarily because all we've decided is that we're going for AH next- that gives us one tile to improve and iirc we dont even have the wheel to build some roads.

if out next goal is myst-med-priest then writing then no worker should definatly not be next however if we are going to grab some worker techs before then i think thats something to consider.

Also another consideration is instead of a MC slingshot is a monarchy slingshot, being able to grow our cities into double figures before the AD's would be amazing.

Out of them two sites softnum it'd have to be blue because we have no way of popping our borders just yet without building monuments however id prefer a site north east of the marble, gets the marble immediatly within borders and has suger with a border pop- it also allows us further access to the coast (our UB can help there) further the problem with settling that far away will be maintenance.

Just to point out as well softnum that this is on epic speed so some of your calculations may end up being a bit out.

I'll vote for the sopt that is closer - we want marble fast and we can wait for another corn. It is also less agressive for poor Ghengis.

I like the idea of going for monarchy early, but doing so without wines in sight and at the cost of actually improving our tiles doesn't sound nice to my ears. Monarchy can wait up until we can build the unints we need to gas the citizens.

Well I am about to play. Due to happiness issues and loss of hammers on whip carryover worker may be the way to go. I will probably stop and we can discuss city sites when the north has been uncovered a bit more.

Ok here we are. My comp froze so I lost my notes.

Turn 0- switch to lake tile, switch to worker, switch research to AH

Turn 1- Our scout bravely fights off the lion but his carcass is scavenged by wolves. Whip the worker.

Turn 2- whipped worker goes off to forest chop, warrior build due in 4 with growth in 4 working lake tile and seafood.

Turns 3-6- we have gold hills nearby (3). A fish is over there, might be a pretty good city.

Turn 7- warrior done, gets forest chop next turn, all go to settler.

I whipped the settler when our happiness came back.

There are fish and sheep up past the bronze and we have horses right by the capital. Research set to wheel so we can connect them for some barb killers. I stopped a turn short so we can discuss the settlers moves.

The mountain blocks us from land scouting in the far northwest.


Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs CDZ's Scout (2.70)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Lion!
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs CDZ's Scout (0.40)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 32, 3040 BC: Barbarian's Wolf has defeated CDZ's Scout!

Turn 33, 3010 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 33, 3010 BC: CDZ adopts Slavery!
Turn 33, 3010 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 34, 2980 BC: You have trained a Worker in Spamville. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 37, 2890 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Slavery!
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs CDZ's Scout (2.45)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 37, 2890 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 37, 2890 BC: CDZ's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 38, 2860 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Spamville. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 42, 2740 BC: Gandhi adopts Slavery!

Turn 44, 2680 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

Which brings the question of how wide we want our cities apart. I'm inclined to plant on the river plain that grabs fish, pigs and 3 golds. This steals the pig from the capital but corn and clam compensate for the food lost in working the hills around. I'm not sure how the no distance corruption + city count restraints plays out when people settle cities in CIV, I'd guess you go for better OCP placements, in that case sharing the pig could be heresy...

Sharing isnt heresy for me. Its the only way we can work all that gold and still grow. Bothersome is the fact that we cant get fish, sheep, and bronze with a city in the north. Marble is way too far IMO.

It may be far but it's worth a lot of shields. We could compromise and get a gem/marble city rather than a marble/corn one.

148889

The way I see it, we can do a Corn / Gold, Pigs / Gold, or, if we put it on that last Desert / Hills, we can hit both the corn and the pigs. But not until a border pop. -_-;

Edit: And, looking at it closer, if you put a city 1N of the closest Gold, you get pigs and Fish. Plus the City is costal, so it can build lighthouse and Workboat the fish. You're still looking at a border pop either way, although I _think_ the pigs would be immediately available.

Marble / Gems is like 7 or 8 tiles away, plus we can't work jungle effectively until Iron.

Also, where to go after the wheel? Writing? Med - poly ?

I prefer the site grabbing two gold and pigs immediatly then with a border pop the fish and another gold- that is effectivly our modern era research in the bag.

I just read this from the war academy and I wanted to hear what your more experienced and critical points of view think of it:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/earlygrowth.php

It warrants the worker-worker-settler sequence for food-costig units.

And while I'm at it, about gunships, they can't capture but can they attack cities ?

Yes. In fact, they can kill all units in a city. But they still cannot capture it.

Gunships aren't that useful, but cavalry upgrades to them.

They nerfed chopping at 1.61 after that article was written, so it's not nearly the power strategy.

It used to be that you should get like 3 cities out very quickly with chopping. This also meant that you had to play a civ with mining, really, since that was the best strategy.

Alright, thanks.

By the way I might be moving back to my old man for a bit and I don't know how it'll play out, but in the case I leave my comp here at the appartment I wouldn't have CIV, just C3C, so I wouldn't be able to play my sets. I'll still keep the talks going, though. It probably won't happen that way though.

So what's the tally for pig/gold vs marble/gem first up? 3-1 against my marble vote?

I think we need to figure out what our short-middle term strategy is going to be.

Are you going to attempt Axeman Diplomacy against someone? Are we going to try and push out some quick cities and get a research farm going? Are we going to go for the oracle? Not that these are mutually exclusive, but I just wonder what everyone's thought is.. what's our priority for the next 30-60 moves?

I sort of feel like the outsider, but... the way I see it, Ghengis is too far away for Axe Rush, effectivly, anyway. We're a lotta turns away from that anyway. I think if we can get a couple of settlers out, maybe 1 copper, and 1 Gold/Fish/Pigs and then push into some research areas, that would be good.

As far as Techs go, after we finish the Wheel, we can:

Pottery - But our Worker has plenty to do right now -- Pigs, Roads, Mine Gold, Mine Copper, Roads.
Agri -- See above. I'm not sure we need to extra food. We'll need it eventually, but it's a strong trade possibility.
Med-Poly Oracle -- A good line, but until we get to the Marble / Oracle, the research does little for us.

I think we need to figure out what our short-middle term strategy is going to be.

Are you going to attempt Axeman Diplomacy against someone? Are we going to try and push out some quick cities and get a research farm going? Are we going to go for the oracle? Not that these are mutually exclusive, but I just wonder what everyone's thought is.. what's our priority for the next 30-60 moves?

I sort of feel like the outsider, but... the way I see it, Ghengis is too far away for Axe Rush, effectivly, anyway. We're a lotta turns away from that anyway. I think if we can get a couple of settlers out, maybe 1 copper, and 1 Gold/Fish/Pigs and then push into some research areas, that would be good.

As far as Techs go, after we finish the Wheel, we can:

Pottery - But our Worker has plenty to do right now -- Pigs, Roads, Mine Gold, Mine Copper, Roads.
Agri -- See above. I'm not sure we need to extra food. We'll need it eventually, but it's a strong trade possibility.
Med-Poly Oracle -- A good line, but until we get to the Marble / Oracle, the research does little for us.
Dont worry, we will fully indoctrinate you in CDZ before its over. If you want you can join the ISDG over there, that forum needs some new thoughts.

I agree that we should just let Khan be for now. By the time we settle marble we can be gearing for war with him. After wheel, I think we should go to priesthood (via myst->med, the shortest path). Then pottery. The Q is do we do Alphabet->Lit or math-> CoL and expand? Maybe we should pump a workboat to explore soon to find other AIs and make Alphabet more useful. Oracle may have to be built in the capital. This gets us the border expansion to include the copper earlier with the added culture. Kill some barbs with chariots, and expand, expand, expand. Long term goals should include our UU techs which we should be well on our way to by then. City sites need to be revised/corrected/argued below.

I would rotate to 4-1-2-5-3. We need the marble if we want to pre-chop ourselves an oracle and make it count. Copper isn't that urgent unless we want a full blown rush on Genghis and we need domestic units before then anyways.

I'd wait on longer term research plans since if we're alone with Genghis and Gandhi has a super blown empire surrounded by 12 pacific civs, we'll need to get on par with techs and that means alpha and astro. But we do need to get as close to possible to civil service earlier than later. He can't do much against a good mass of zerkers with a couple spears to eat keshiks.

I like 1 4 2 3 5 of what you've got there. The only thing I see is.. where's the production center? 2 would do pretty well moves 2W, with the hills around there, and the river an the edge for irrigation, but that does basically leave the fish unworkable. Where it is now has a frightening number of ocean tiles to work, though.

I would think our next two cities will come in rapid succession. After that we;ll need a few more workers to start working the land.

The Capital should be relatively close to border pop again, anyway.

I think Math / Alpha / IW question is more about how many Civs are around. It seems ever more likely that we're alone here, which suggests IW, MC, Mach, Compass, Optics, Astro. Which is mostly bad for us. :(

kc, am I up now? Or were you going to play a few more turns? If I'm up I need to play tonight, or wait till Friday. I'm in no big hurry, however.

What's the ISDG?

I would rotate to 4-1-2-5-3. We need the marble if we want to pre-chop ourselves an oracle and make it count. Copper isn't that urgent unless we want a full blown rush on Genghis and we need domestic units before then anyways.

I'd wait on longer term research plans since if we're alone with Genghis and Gandhi has a super blown empire surrounded by 12 pacific civs, we'll need to get on par with techs and that means alpha and astro. But we do need to get as close to possible to civil service earlier than later. He can't do much against a good mass of zerkers with a couple spears to eat keshiks.
The only hangup on the marble is it is far away, and will eat into our research more. It also has no food readily available. The only thing long term is to push science.

Really marble site wouldnt be too bad if we had sailing to connect the towns immediately (settle on top of the marble).

I like 1 4 2 3 5 of what you've got there. The only thing I see is.. where's the production center? 2 would do pretty well moves 2W, with the hills around there, and the river an the edge for irrigation, but that does basically leave the fish unworkable. Where it is now has a frightening number of ocean tiles to work, though.

I would think our next two cities will come in rapid succession. After that we;ll need a few more workers to start working the land.

The Capital should be relatively close to border pop again, anyway.

I think Math / Alpha / IW question is more about how many Civs are around. It seems ever more likely that we're alone here, which suggests IW, MC, Mach, Compass, Optics, Astro. Which is mostly bad for us.

kc, am I up now? Or were you going to play a few more turns? If I'm up I need to play tonight, or wait till Friday. I'm in no big hurry, however.

What's the ISDG?
I was going to hand off to the next player. Theres no hurry I dont think. 2 can only reach the fish from that point. Really you could move it over 1 tile from the river for river cottages + production+ baabaas but w/ health penalty. I usually do not like to research ironworking in a science game unless absolutely necessary. Every tech should have a purpose for research. Iron will unlock iron (not useful w/ no close neighbors) and jungle clearing (useful when we have workers and the jungle settled). Math leads to CS and CoLs (and Currency, probably tradeable from AI), all helpful science initiatives. Alpha leads to trading and Great Library once we have someone to trade us Polytheism.

ISDG- Inter Site Democracy Game. A type of group human PBEM. All the civ sites play a game via email against each other, including Civfanatics, CDZ, the Russian civ site, Apolyton, CGN, Civ Brasil, etc. The game is in the semifinals now I think. There is also a Multi Team Demo Game on CFC here for Civ 4, with 5 different teams of all CFCers. They are quite interesting.

Join cfc though- we're more kick ass than cdz (mainly because im turn player ;))

moving on, i like the dot map(??) but we dont have a city there that will be a production powerhouse- we'll have a few that'll be average at best. i think there will be a worthwhile site north of site 1 perhaps, though not sure on exact placement without opening the save.

Also i find that building courthouses pre 1000AD to be some of the most pointless things in the world, thats pre where it'll take you a few turns to build :)

i've written it down somewhere- ill go find it :)


courthouses look at it like this, they come along at the same time as other buildings such as markets or grocers- quite a lot of time your cities arn't even developed enough to have all of the basics in by the time they come around.

Now say a city is raking in 10 gpt, which would increase on every pop growth by 2 gpt while it also has maintenance costs of 2 gpt increasing by 1 every 2 pops.

1 pop = 10 gpt -1 maintenance
2 pop 12 gpt -1 maintenance
3 pop 14 gpt -2 maintenance
4 pop 16 gpt -2 maintenance
5 pop 18 gpt -3 maintenance

would you rather build something that increases the gold output so infact what your getting is this.

1 pop= 12 gpt -1 maintenance
2 pop 15 gpt -1 maintenance
3 pop= 17/18 gpt - 2 maintenance
4 pop= 20 gpt -2 maintenance
5 pop 21/22 gpt - 3 maintenance.

or a building that just reduces costs by 1 or so every turn, i appreciate this isnt exactly how maintenance costs work but its a good indication of what a building for only 30 more shields can do compared to a building without one, i dont normally end up building courthouses until well into the 1000's ad, as other builds get prioritised over it.

robi d brought up this point
There is one more problem with BC's model. Markets give the 25% on taxes only not all commerce generated, so if you run 100% science then markets give you zero extra gold. On average an average figure 80% science a city with 20 commerce and 4 upkeep a market will give you 1 extra gold, a courthouse will save you 2 gold. Not to mention as the game goes on upkeep costs have inflation applied to them, gold earned doesn't, hence courthouses are not useless and why we should build them as the need arises

to which i just replied is one benefit of running at 100's and 0's to get max benefit :)

Those are interesting thoughts, re: courts. Certainly deserves some analysis. I have found courts worthwhile when you are about to go to 10 cities or so, after military and science improvements are built. It needs an analysis of the situation though.

The true power of CoL is being able to slightly overexpand to 50% research or less due to running merchants w/ caste system. With wide open spaces for now and a war with Khan maybe looming later at that time, maybe caste is better over slavery. I dont know, Im rambling.

We have a few sets before we have to decide. Are we agreed on Priesthood after wheel, city at #1, and Oracle in capital? If we can get votes on those issues Softie can take it to em.

Im unsure why oracle- what are we hoping to gain from this?

MC- to me is not worth it, machinery on the other hand perhaps. Monarchy i'd say is very worthwhile.

Plus, without Marble, is it work it? We don't have a lot of :hammers: to put into it.

Does Binary research still make any difference? I thought all that strange micro went away with going to 2 decimal places for values.

I think Monarchy would be a waste of the Oracle.. If we could push through Monarchy and writing after Priesthood before the Oracle pops, we could get Feudalism for it.

If no Oracle at Spamsville, Worker then Settler pop again? I think with Goldfish city, we will have plenty for 2 workers to do.

Im unsure why oracle- what are we hoping to gain from this?

MC- to me is not worth it, machinery on the other hand perhaps. Monarchy i'd say is very worthwhile.
We can certainly run an engineer from Forge to guarantee machinery 50 turns from when we build le Oracle (and a forge). This leaves only CS to get for Berserks and allows us to pursue quite a bit of stuff. We forgo academy this way for some time to insure an engineer. MC costs 50% more than Monarchy too.

Feudalism is alright, but how does it help the science gambit?

I agree on the feud thing, i dont really see any pressing need for it tbh.

It seemed like a nice tech, and was on the tech path we're already down?

MC is a nice choice too.

Well Feudalism does open up vassals (we could vassalize Khan, for instance). We do get increased happiness this way but it lowers our diplomacy score. And this means we need to get monarchy on the way so we will have that. But the techs post Feud are not particularly helpful science wise.

Of course there is CS slingshot, but I have doubts on this map. With 2 gold hills worked and fast libraries, then maybe it can happen. This would be a GIGANTIC coup for us if we were able to pull it off. Shooting for Oracle prior to 1000 BC I think is the goal on Monarch, maybe this could work? This solves 2 problems if we do it, 1) half requirement for Berserks and 2) science boost, esp. w/ academy.

Remember, CS slingshot was nerfed in Warlords 2.08, so you need Math, and CoL / Feud for CS now.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=207776

Yeah however if you run specialists you can basically bulb math bit of a waste of a GS but if were sure of getting CS well worthwhile whilst researching CS and therefore combined we hit CS.

its a worthwhile consideration, i was able to grab the oracle in about 500BC in past WOTM on warlords so its dooable.

Soooo..

Writing -> Myst -> Med -> Prist -> CoL -> Math(LB) -> CS (Oracle)
Whip Library, run Scientists -> Build Oracle

??

Well I did some tests, gold hill will help tremendously even though it is not on a river. Library and scientists needs to be built 25 turns from when we do Oracle completion, and I think we need to have the thing done by 900-1000 BC. It will take very much gold management and luck but it can be done.

If we do this we throw all our eggs in this basket and probably fight barbs (surely in these open spaces we will be annoyed with them) with warriors. Wheel is out the window, we have to go straight on to writing to get the library done in time.

Probably we do micro in city 2 (needs a name, SoftSpam? BearSpam? Maybe Tea&CrumpetsSpam for Simon?) from pigs to gold every turn, to get us growing quite a bit as much as possible. This will need some calculation though.

i'd say we grab wheel after writing, it wont make such an impact on our research rate.

I see no reason why to alternate every other turn though- why not just say 5 turns on one 5 on another? or is this because we'll be losing money (do we have any in the treasury?)

on a side note- whilst enjoying a good cuppa not such a big fan of crumpets- their predominantly dry.

I like Goldfish' for the name of the City, but I've always been a traditionalist.

To get writing sooner to start Library more quickly. Actually though we have some turns left on the pigs pasture. Maybe we stop the pigs and go direct for the gold hill? How many turns are from now until 1000 BC?

Work gold hill for max research.... hmmm well we may be to writing before this is a consideration.

I like the idea of pushing our GP points early for a tech.

I also like spammy city names.

Does Spam make goldfish flavored cans?

Maybe 'SpamNum'? :D

OK, so, if I'm reading the consensus correctly...

Switch to Writing.
Settle Goldfish city.
Work pigs until worker mines a gold.
Work gold
Whip Library at least in capital when Writing completes.
(maybe finish The Wheel)
Research to Priesthood then CoL, while running Scientists in Capital, Building the Oracle in the Capital, and mining / Working the gold.
GS -> LB Mathematics
Then Oracle -> CS.

Hold onto that GS until one turn before we complete oracle- if we dont get the oracle we dont want to waste it on math when we could just bulb philo.

I think we should finish pigs so the capital can maybe pump out another worker to start pre chopping them forests.

I think the pigs will finish before the Set/War escort gets to GoldFish.

I'm plannign on playing tonight with the above plan... So if anyone objects, scream now.

I dont think we can whip the library and get it back up to size 4 in time... nor can we get the wheel.

We have 51 turns to 1000 BC, when we need to have this done.

Writing- 268
Myst-111
med-178
Priest- 133
CoL- 783
Total-- 1473 beakers. ~29 beakers per turn from here on out.

We can produce 15 (palace is 8, Fish is 3, lake is 3, 1 city center) at size 2, and 3 more per size via scientist. That is 21 at size 4; with library 26. We need 25 turns of 2 specialists to get the scientist in time. So minimum date to have library done is 1750; we of course want it sooner. We may have to burn forests on library project; we will have longer to build oracle since its in the capital.

Town 2 will do 8 beakers with the 1 gold hill mined. Maybe when we get it to size 2 we can work 2 gold hills and starve for a turn and switch back to pigs for a turn to get an average of 12 beakers.

If we always work lake and sea, I think we can get it done. We need another worker out of capital now, while we are working on writing. And maybe a warrior, how long til we grow again?

As soon as worker1 is done pigging he needs to start a minin' the gold. Will using an escort delay us settling by a turn? If so we should maybe we risk it, since we are doing this risky move anyhow. We will kick some @ss I think if this works.

Looks like CRC had a major power spike @ 1200 BC or so. Looking at their culture it doesnt look like they built the Oracle though!?! 80 something culture from 1900-1000 is consistent with library only.

After looking at it some more, maybe we can start the worker and when it gets close to completion whip it, overflow to library, and finish the library with chops.

City 2 will be able to get to size 3 pretty quick, and maybe we can move the palace there if we hit CS, setting up Oxford there as well after education. Talk about a commerce monster!

Commercezilla is a monster

them beaker counts- are they including the discouts we get from researching optional techs before it?

Nope I dont know how to calculate that. I just took base amount from the save. Im thinking that maybe we dont need to use scientist for math, if the beaker count is lower. And I dont think we can get the libe and 2 scientists running by 1000 BC.

The capital grows in 9 turns IIRC. Whipping the last bit of worker, overflow to library will take it to size 1. We have to have the worker for chopping though.

Oh and the scout can come back down towards the gold hills and lookout for monsters so we dont need a warrior escort I dont believe.

OK.. In SPamville, Work and Writing would be done at about the same time.

Switch to worker, research writing. Move Set to GoldFish city, moving the scout down at the same time.

Spamgoldfish can work on growing via pigs (done in 2 turns, will be dome by the time the city plops down.) Worker moves to mine gold. Second worker works on chops for lib, then moves to help mine Spamgoldfish.

Captial should grow enough to support 1 SCI, then it works on growint to 4. We research tech path. Spamgoldfish can work on it's own Lib during this time too.

Once lib pops, Work on Oracle, Chop like it's going out of style.

Saving the GS may not be the _best_ idea, cause Math still goes get us 50% :hammers: per chop.

Once I mine is in place, We can work then, and continue on the tech path.

Yeah I think that is it. Push science as much as possible. It is nice that town 2 works the pigs right away, it will grow just in time I think (isnt it 5 turns?).

Go Softnum!

I got a couple turns in and look who I found!
149119

149120

The scout stuck around to help fend off the Barbarian Hordes. Which started appearing after We plopped Spamnum down.

149121

He wanted to open his borders, so I let him.

149122

This is where I left us. The Library didn't get done 'in time' unfortunately. I chopped two forests into it. I didn't want to shop any more, I saved for Oracle. Our research is really up there, however.

Also, Ghandi Stole our fishes! The bastard.

I uploaded the results.

Hmm I thought I posted here, imagining things I guess.

Well maybe we can get the libraries done asap. It might make sense to switch to math now vs. CoL since beaker rate outweighs our GP rate. We will actually research to CS.

I think BCLG is up.

Yeah. The worker is standing on forest waiting to decide if we want to chop 1 more in the lib, or whip the lib, or what.

I'm worried about barbs, too, honestly. o.o I've seen them around already, and we're sort of defenseless.

Well, overflow from whipped library could go into rax, then melee/cover warriors from Goldtown if we should be worried. We also have the scout to lure barbs away from our nice tiles. This does slow research a bit, but not extremely much w/ additional libe commerce.

Im unsure what is going on, cane are you suggesting that we forgo the oracle build completly or are you suggesting we research math and then bulb CoL (which we cant do as the GS wont go that way) or that we research both CoL AND math?

Thing about if we're worried about chops is i can bulb math early and get the 50% bonus for forest chops from it and thus needing less forests.

I mean there is no chance that we will have a GS in 20 turns when Code finishes. We do not even have a library. Even if we were to do something crazy like put 3 scientists in the capital (with revolt to caste system) we will not have a GS in time. This is why the library by 1750 was important to run 2 scientists, pop them out at 1000 BC (which may indeed be too late for Oracle). But this was probably tough to get done since we built a worker as well.

Since that is the case, we can research math now. Our research capacity is high, Great people popping ability is low. Knock out math, then Code, chop 5 forests, and we have an Oracle.

Seems reasonable, so we're slaving the remaining libraries, capital starts on oracle, the other spot starts on a rax and pumps out some anti barbness.

If possible im going to try and run a scientist somewhere- when it pops out (bout 34 turns) we'll be able to bulb philo- meaning we'll definatly have a religion if we miss out on Confusc, will also let us use pacifism if we so desire :)

I would only slave the LIb in Spamnum if it only costs 1 pop, which is like 8 turns away, :/ You could chop the couple forests into it, too.

Sounds good otherwise. Math before CoL, too.. 14 turns for match at our current rate. THen chops work better for us.

Yes the chop might solve some problems there. Certainly better than losing science capability with a whip. I forget how many hammers are in the library there.

just to sound a bit stupid where the hecks the save? couldnt find it in any of yours posts softie, i'll go look in main SGOTM bit but in future could everyone place it in the thread in there post :)

gonna open up the game now.

in future could everyone place it in the thread in there post

Please do NOT attach the saves to your posts. It wastes server space and runs a risk of players picking up the wrong save.

Use the SGOTM upload page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm.php) to submit them to the SGOTM server, and then download them from the Progress and Results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php). If you feel you must then copy a LINK to the already-uploaded save in your turn set report.

My bad thats what i meant- copy the link to the thread.

heck i dont even know how to attack something to a post :)

1660BC-knock rates down to 0% +30gpt
researched switched to math
pasture completed

<IBT> Nowt

1630BC- Worker that was working horse-renamed to BCLG100
Worker that is chopping forest renamed killercane
BCLG goes to work hill N,N of Spamville

<IBT> Nada

1570BC-Spamnum hits size 4
research rate now back 10 100% -2gpt

<IBT> nothing

1540BC- forest chopped by cane-lib finished in capital

IBT-barb appears 3 tiles south of gold city

1510BC- lib finished in spamville-grows to size 4, scientist hired.
scout sent to draw warrior away
cane sent to mine hill N, NE of spamville

<IBT> 1 strength warrior appears north of spamville

1480BC- Warrior from spamnum sent to intervene
Lib whipped in spamnum

<IBT>- all warriors hed for gold city, a new barb warrior appears south west of it

1450-lib completed in gold city-warrior set. warrior originally from there moved back to defend

paused my turnset there as we need to decide whether the oracle is still a viable route to take. I personally would say no, we should switch research immediatly to wheel-get some barb defenders out and the tech to alphabet- trade for everything we dont have and grab pre reqs for lit-research it and chop the Great lib but thats just me personally.

save is here http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/CDZ_SG004_BC1450_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1660 BC to 1450 BC:


Turn 79, 1630 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

Turn 82, 1540 BC: Spamville has grown to size 4
Turn 82, 1540 BC: You have constructed a Library in Spamville. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 83, 1510 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamnum!
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs CDZ's Scout (1.50)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 83, 1510 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: CDZ's Scout is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Barbarian's Warrior has defeated CDZ's Scout!
Turn 83, 1510 BC: While defending, your Scout was destroyed by a Barbarian Warrior!

Turn 84, 1480 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamville!
Turn 84, 1480 BC: You have constructed a Library in Spamnum. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 85, 1450 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamnum!
Turn 85, 1450 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamnum!

theres the log

And now heres the picture of the current situation.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4020/civ4screenshot0010ey8.jpg

Unfortunately I think BCLG is right, we are going to have to do some fighting with the Barbs. Chariots will make this easier so I wheel is going to have to be done. It looks like we are going to have to poprush the libe at Spamnum too which hurts.

Has anyone noticed Ghandi's score? It seems he is not so weak as last time around. He may even be landing troops sometime soon. Again we need wheel for that, and axes as soon as we can get the copper up.

If no Oracle, we should go balls out expansion to 5 cities or so I think. Probably settle the marble soon, something SW, and the north. The north looks to have a lot of forests to chop for the Great Library.

:wow: look at Gandhi's score ...

These barbs look particularly very non-heterosexual, in words that are CFC-acceptable. Been out for the week-end, will catch-up and try posting something relevant - or shut up and smile as usual if it fails.

Thats not such an 'amazing' score for this time in the game at monarch level.

At least normally Gandhi is quite peaceful... so this game could more become like: Letting Gandhi grow and trying to stay alive nonetheless.

BTW, I think we shouldn't kill too many AIs. We can spread techs to them at some point where the game is under control and then we hope they trade with Gandhi (or at least make Gandhi's research cheaper)

We can trade with them but then we have to be sure that they dont get their research too far ahead...

Well long term we need to give Ghandi all of our cities that we are founding. Maybe we should have enough workers to re-workshop many cottage tiles before we leave for another continent to help him build parts. We probably build Internet and gift some proxy civ all the techs, similar to Great Library gambit. Any game mechanisms to prevent this?

I will be out for a week probably, if I come up feel free to skip me. I think several are up in the meantime though...

Hey sorry guys, I didn't even realise I was part of this team. To be honest I can't even remember signing up, but I just checked my inbox and had this message sitting here about this thread.

So anyway, I am here now, I will check out the latest save tonight to see where you all are at.

This is my first SGOTM and am not exactly sure how it works, so if you don't mind just filling me in a bit.

Just had a quick look at the 1450BC save.

Some thoughts I had. Think it would be important to research The Wheel so that we can hook up the Copper and build some axeman. Alot of barbs around and they will soon turn into archer barbs which the warriors will struggle against. Also mine all the gold squares to increase science output.

The gold tiles so far have been mined under borders :)

but welcome to the team that was pretty much the idea from now on and then head to the great lib.

So, are we scrapping the Oracle idea and going into defensive mode?

I think if we do that we should spam out a few more cities. We'll get less Barbs that way, Plus we can easily afford it right about now, and with SoL Around the corner, courthouses are there for us.

I don't think we should abandon the Oracle plan necessarily, however. We're fairly close. It's Monarch, so our units still get a fair advantage vs. Barbs anyway.

Sorry I haven't been my usual active self. Work went like wozza too me. >_<

Do you mean CoL? but i disagree on the building of courthouses- i see very little point in them.

I think we're pretty much giving up the plan for oracle and focusing on great lib- which is much more dooable as we should have marble hooked up by then.

i'll play to about 1000BC if thats cool folks?

We will need more units if we think about spamming settlers. We need more right now anyways. Axes would be great at that too, so I agree on wheel.

I would argue that chariots are the better barb killers with their now 50% vs axe's they're also cheaper to build and can build them straight away after we've discovered wheel so whilst i will be hooking copper up im not in the biggest rush because of it.

Well barb trouble just went from bad to worse really

My apologies but i ran over my turnset to about 790BC-trying to sort out the barb threat so the incoming player didnt have such a mess to deal with.

I also gave up trying to record barb attacks

1450-Research wheel- 2 turns
whip warrior in spamnum just incase

1420warrior in spamville- settler starts
attack barb on gold hill and win

1390-finish wheel start on alpha

1210-lose warrior on hill to barb- both strength 1, barb promoted :(
scramble defence around the capital

1180-chariot whipped.

1150- attacks archer- ~75% chance of winning, barely puts a dent it it, archer is left at 2.7- for the next few turns goes on a pillaging spree in the end stopping us from building anything except warriors

~1000BC barb axes start appearing, have to turn off alpha to fun gold for an upgrade of warrior in capital to axe as we dont have time to build one.

805BC-alpha in, traded writing with genghis for sailing
790BC-we have alpha able to trade with genghis for agri, pots, archery and masonry.

he also has IW, i put us back on the math path but we need to change that if going for the GL shortly.

picture
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1333/civ4screenshot0014yi7.jpg


Anyways sorry for the extended turnset as well as the not exactly brilliant position left in, we should have a settler out in a few turns and ive sent down an axe to clear the marble site, with sailing we can also trade it up and down the coast so the great lib is still a very real possibility.

We also have some barb scouts out right now, admitedly not many and they're only warriors but we have a slight defence.

Turn 86, 1420 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Turn 90, 1300 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (31/100HP)

Turn 94, 1180 BC: You have trained a Chariot in Spamville. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot (4.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (3.00)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: CDZ's Chariot is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 1120 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated CDZ's Chariot!

Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer (2.90) vs CDZ's Warrior (4.70)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Combat Odds: 5.7%
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (64/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (40/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (16/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: CDZ's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 98, 1060 BC: Gandhi adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs CDZ's Warrior (2.70)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 98, 1060 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 98, 1060 BC: CDZ's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 101, 985 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (1.96) vs CDZ's Warrior (5.50)
Turn 101, 985 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 101, 985 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 101, 985 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (51/100HP)
Turn 101, 985 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (20/100HP)
Turn 101, 985 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 101, 985 BC: CDZ's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 106, 910 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs CDZ's Axeman (11.25)
Turn 106, 910 BC: Combat Odds: 0.5%
Turn 106, 910 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 106, 910 BC: (Plot Defense: +65%)
Turn 106, 910 BC: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 106, 910 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 106, 910 BC: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 106, 910 BC: CDZ's Axeman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 106, 910 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 106, 910 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 106, 910 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 106, 910 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 106, 910 BC: CDZ's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!

Turn 111, 835 BC: You have trained a Spearman in Spamville. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 112, 820 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 112, 820 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!
Turn 112, 820 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Gandhi, Genghis Khan

Turn 113, 805 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 113, 805 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Genghis Khan


also as you can see from the log we had no chance at oracle...

save= http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/CDZ_SG004_BC0790_01.CivWarlordsSave

I don't think that turnset was too bad at all.

I guess but then maybe the game isnt going to well for us in general, its 790BC and we dont have four cities up on the go so its a bit disapointing, ohwell im sure beonr can bring us around.

I figure we should make the trade with saladin for alphabet and keep on this research path with math so we can immediatly have the chop bonus avaliable when we start great lib. following that we should start myst-poly/lit.

I agree, we should definately head for lit and get great library up. Should hook up all the gold resources for the extra commerce. There is a nice spot to the west with 2 gems maybe for the next settler? Or I guess we could head north and block of Ghandi.

I think the next settline spot is the one just north of the marble, this will able us to get a boost on the great lib.

Your in fact up next drool :)

So if you could play ten turns and then just post back what you've done that'd be great :)

Cool, I assume that is after beonr finishes with the 790BC save?

GJ quelling the barbs, BC.

I didn't get the 790BC save, Drool, it's all yours. It's gotta be a good thing too, you for me is probably a good trade.

OK.
I'll start it tonight. I think I will build the settler north of the other 2. Any City name suggestions (do we have to follow with the 'spam' theme. What else would you like me to concentrate on? Great Lib?

You don't have to follow the spam theme, you can call it whatever you want, like cloud or flowers and stuff.

Concentrating on the Great Lib would be best done by settling near the marble ASAP though. We need it to competitively build wonders and it is not "granted" to us like the North is: Genghis could snatch it before we do, and that would hurt. Otherwise it would easily be agreed on that we need to settle to the north, and that's where the bulk of our empire will be once we have claimed the land down there.

Before then, it's either we put our men there and have these (admittedly not as good) tiles for ourselves or we let the mongols have them and we forget about them altogether. I'd rather we have them.

Turn 116, 760 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs CDZ's Axeman (8.00)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: CDZ's Axeman is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: CDZ's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 121, 685 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!

Turn 124, 640 BC: Nidaros has been founded.

Turn 126, 610 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!

Turn 132, 520 BC: Genghis Khan converts to Judaism!

Turn 133, 505 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 134, 490 BC: You have discovered Literature!




The settler finished in 745BC. I built the city south just above the marble in the spot the computer told me was good. I started straight away on a monument so that the borders would expand into the marble.

Spamville built a chariot to counter the increasing barbarians and to help control the unhappies. I had to stop growth at city size 5 due to unhappies and started on a great scientist. I hooked up the golds and was able to grow spamville to 6. It is now on 6 but will be unhappy as soon as it gets to 7. I built a galley and it is heading south to see if we can make contact with anyone to trade with.

Speaking of trading at one time I could have traded Alpha and Math with genghis but decided against it. He must have discovered Alpha as now we can only trade Math. He is willing to give us Agri, Pottery, and Archery for it but at this stage I haven't done it. I traded 1 of our golds for sheep with Genghis.

I just finished researching literature on the very last turn before saving and have begun on masonry so we can use the marble to speed up the great lib.

Built a few workers and they are busy connecting up the cities and resources.

I think that is all.

Picture: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/16017/475BC.JPG
Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/CDZ_SG004_BC0475_01.CivWarlordsSave

Ok so we still dont have marble for another 20+ turns, border exp and the fact the monument needs to be built! Though its a good spot drool ignore what the city placement thing says it just focuses on where we can get the next food.

Whoever goes in next should cancel the gold sheep deal-its not really benefiting us at all and we dont want to be giving genghis extra happy, you should have probably traded that alpha for all the rest drool- that was one of the main reasons why researching alpha first is such a good idea- for the bonus of being able to ship it round for everything we want/need.


Also from now on folks-10 turn sets.


good turnset otherwise :goodjob:

Bump- Frank your up :)

So, what is our plan anyway? Put down GL?

Alright I'm up - what's the plan ? At all ?

Play to win. Don't suck.

Kill them all! (except Ghandi)

Pre-Turn:
Just a note, Drool, it is customary to save before hitting enter, at turn's end, not at turn's start. Just so you know.

Zoom out :crazyeye:
Find a barb village an converge towards it with the chariot, 3 friendlies are on their way as well
Setup 2 chops in spamvile

IT
Sure as the river flows, Kenny moves his chariots towards Minoan.

T1.
Minoan has 2 archers, we could take them out, they could take them out, I'll give them a turn to hit into it and go afterwards.

Notice our warrior has woodsman 1 ... is it for the woods 2 movement promotion or something?

IT
Kenny leaves one archer alive in the town at 2.7 strenght

T2.
Our odds of winning this fight are nowhere stellar (25% of this going well including the 8% retreat), we could lose chariot and warrior altogether. If the warrior attack nails a few points off the archer, the chariot would have a shot. The archer has Garrison 1 - 5.76 strenght actual.

Other option is to let Kenny hit it, but he might capture a gem+sugar city right under our nose. His odds wouldn't be awesome either, though. But if we do attack and fail he has a sure win.

I say wait and see next turn. Opinions?

Wait. I'll bet the computer attacks. It makes crazy choices like that. Then him softening it up for you should pave the way.

And, if he happens to take it, then..... Maybe we don't like him so well anymore?

Does the AI ever raze cities? I've never seen it do it

I have seen an AI raze one of its own cities I had just captured. Will do, he'll get what he deserves hitting a poor barb archer.

Bear with me, my turnlog might be off on turn numbers, I didn't find the turn counter yet on the CIV interface.

T2.
Wait up as discussed
Spamnum Axe - settler
Send the galley back in the capital to hide from the trireme. Then I realize it could have outran it across the coast. **** happens.

IT
Minoan razed by barbs

T3.
Nidaros Monument - Trading post

T4.
Masonry in, someone get a GE
Set research on CoL

T5.
Barb archer suicides on a chariot

T6.
Get visual confirmation: Gandhi cannot be reached by land


IT
ToA completed somewhere

T7.
Nada

T8.
Fresh Barb city spotted

T9.
Our TGL build is pretty safe and Gandhi has Literature now anyways, so I trade it and Maths to Genghis for IW, archery, pots and agri. We neded the farm for the corn in the capital, plus now we know where iron is.

T10.
We get to Uzbek and the barbs are already razing it :(

Save on the server, link in my sig. Appearantly there were 2 more turns in my set, sorry.

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 135 (475 BC)
Nidaros begins: Trading Post

Turn 136 (460 BC)

Turn 137 (445 BC)
Spamnum grows: 4
Spamnum finishes: Axeman

Turn 138 (430 BC)
Spamnum begins: Settler
Spamville grows: 6
Nidaros finishes: Monument

Turn 139 (415 BC)
Tech learned: Masonry

Turn 140 (400 BC)
Research begun: Code of Laws
Chariot defeats (1.96/4): Barbarian Archer

Turn 141 (385 BC)

Turn 142 (370 BC)

Turn 143 (355 BC)

Turn 144 (340 BC)

Turn 145 (325 BC)
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 146 (310 BC)
Tech learned: Agriculture
Tech learned: Archery
Tech learned: Pottery
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 147 (295 BC)

Good turn set, looks alot better than mine. Nice work.

Are we back to me? I will try to play tonight or tomorrow. Any orders?

Don't build the Chicken Pizza.

I assume Iron City is a priority.

Other then that... Populate the land!

Chicken Pizza is good, but defense bonus is way overrated.

Bah. The only thing that belongs on a Pizza is pig products.

Anyway, what's our strategy right now? Heavy research while maintaining enough military to defend? Or are we shooting for something specific?

So ... pigmilk cheese?

And pig tomatoes. Duh.

Alright got it. Any last instructions? I kind of forgot about it until now.

Ok I think I played 13. The situation is largely the same. I settled the gems towards Khan, iron should be next. The worker is unmoved on the forest, if we want to chop out the next settler for the iron. Research is set to CS. Confu spread to us but no revolt.

Note the Indian triremes in the canal, and the 3rd one which pillaged our fishing nets; there is not much we can do about it at the moment. They may land troops soon. Maybe attacking at some point soon would be feasible but we would have to build triremes to eliminate their threat in the canal and then galleys, so I dont think that is feasible. We have a bit of room to expand, so lets do at breakneck pace!

Turn 147, 295 BC: The borders of Spamnum have expanded!

Turn 148, 280 BC: Genghis Khan converts to Confucianism!

Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs CDZ's Warrior (2.90)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 11.1%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: CDZ's Warrior is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: CDZ's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 152, 220 BC: Confucianism has spread in Nidaros.

Turn 153, 205 BC: The borders of Nidaros have expanded!

Turn 154, 190 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws!

Turn 157, 145 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamville!
Turn 157, 145 BC: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Trireme!

Turn 158, 130 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 158, 130 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamville!

Turn 159, 115 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamville!
Turn 159, 115 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamnum!

Turn 160, 100 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 160, 100 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Spamville!
Turn 160, 100 BC: Uppsala has been founded.

We'll need to rapidly specialize one of our cities into a commerce producer if we are to settle the whole peninsula to the north. The gems city could go ahead and just pool all of its food into sustaining gold miners.

Now do we have knowledge of the whole landmass for a fact or are we still unclear about wether we need astronomy for further contacts?

A workboat after the trading post would be nice in marble town. I dont know if we need astro or not, but its beginning to look that way. For just contacts however, we can get them with caravels.

With Astro, and some cities on the probable other continent, we can then do a mass exodus there. I see the plan as follows:

1) fill up continent asap.
2) build troops (maybe this is #1, we are somewhat short on troops with the wonder build going.
3) tackle Khan to make it easier on India
4) build courts and granaries in all our lands
5) have a force ready (cavs?) to go conquer land off continent, and once this has been done, and the cities are built up a bit, we let Ghandi have everything on our current continent, with as many city improvements as possible.

Are only cultural improvements destroyed when a city is taken (besides wonders of course)?

OK, Got Save, Can Open, yadda yadda.

Questions:

Are we looking at an Iron / Corn / Sheep City? Or Are we going to do Fish/Sheep, then an Iron/Corn?

I plan on chopping a Set, then possibly whipping one out of Spamsville after GL.

I'm for more towns. The more the merrier. Especially if they can pay their own maintenance.

Yep expand and keep Ghandi in check as well.

OK, played. Here's the gist of it:

We got the GL (Yaay)

The Mongols razed the barb town while I was camping it waiting for it to grow to size 2.

Chopped into the Settler, will come due this set.

Built a tremime out of Capital. But the south cite on the boat building too.



Turn 160, 100 BC: Uppsala has been founded.

Turn 163, 55 BC: Francis Bacon (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 164, 40 BC: CDZ has completed The Great Library!
Turn 164, 40 BC: Antonin Dvorak (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 164, 40 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 164, 40 BC: Ramakrishna (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 165, 25 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 165, 25 BC: Gandhi adopts Theocracy!
Turn 165, 25 BC: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!

Turn 167, 5 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 167, 5 AD: Teoihuacan (Barbarian) has been captured by the Mongolian Empire!!!
Turn 167, 5 AD: Teoihuacan has been razed by the Mongolian Empire!!!

Turn 168, 20 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 168, 20 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!

Turn 169, 35 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 169, 35 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!

Turn 170, 50 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 170, 50 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!

im moving back home tomorrow but should be able to play in a couple of days :)

So does that put me up or are we waiting on you?

Umm... You guys' profile is way too alike. z.z

sorry guys work got in the way, i can definatly play this weekend but by all means if someone wants to play a set before then go ahead:)

You'll find that I'm a dreadfully patient bear.

ok well ive got the save, will play 10 and come back :)

1st turn- spamville changed to tireme.

2nd turn- confusc spreads in spam- switch immediatly- may as well

3rd turn- notice this with chariot exploring- so i pause

i think we should immediatly set about capturing it.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9127/civ4screenshot0015wb0.jpg
holy city defended by only two archers-admitedly genghis close to feud.

Agreed on capture, we can make this one axe a raider or an archer killer and go about it.

i think we should immediatly set about capturing it

How come I never come across cities like this? :crazyeye: If you go and get that city, keep in mind that you should be able to keep it. Simply razing it would do some serious damage as well.

How come I never come across cities like this? :crazyeye: If you go and get that city, keep in mind that you should be able to keep it. Simply razing it would do some serious damage as well.

definatly keep it, it is a holy city plus not badly placed at all :)

Take! Plus, I mean, Holy take!

woah, that city is nice...very nice... is that the so intelligent AI of Warlords...

BTW, it seems I won't be getting Warords for some more weeks. Maybe I'll even never get it and switch to BtS directly. Sorry, RL issues hold me off from buying it.

The problem is by the time i have got 5 axes together and down there they may be close to getting fued.

What are our odds with a handful of chariots, right here right now?

We will of course lose out on tech trades until we find someone else. Can we wait and build a bit larger force and trade CS when it comes in? Does Khan have anything we would like/need?

Those workers will be very useful. It seems CRC migrated in about 1200 AD due to their culture drop.

What if when we finish with CS we go for Machinery and then we will be able to attack waith macemen?
Anyway I am moving this weekend and I think it may nearly be my turn, but I will sit this one out, so who ever is next please take the save.

*ping*?

What's happening?

Patience, butterfly.

What about a roster check? Is BCLG still playing?

Bueller.....? Bueller....?

Roster:
- killer
- Beorn
- Softnum
- *
- *

I'll play still.

Alright I will get on this today. We want to attack Khan or no?

Yes we do, these 2 archers are asking for it. If he reinforces, that'd be another story.

Sorry am still playing work and revision for exams really caught up with me the last few weeks

Posting here again so that I don't get counted as a deserter.

Was that a 'skip me' by BCLG?

I am still reading the thread btw...

It's harder than I thought discussing the game when one is not playing oneself...

:lol: good point

thought cane had played so i can probably play on monday.

I thought that was a got it on your part. Whoops.

BCLG- UP
Me-next. I will try to play it quickly so we can get rolling again.

Baaaaaaaat Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

It's very quiet in this thread ... Is there anyone still here?