Playing now... this is really tense!

Gandhi apparently likes Sam but this time he waited too long to land for Sam to take care of it all for me! :)

I got a lot of mixed opinions this time so hopefully as I go along I won't pick the wrong combos. :)

0) Turn 220 - 800 AD

Moved Great General to Nidaros. Even if we don't use him at least he's safer over there. I will most likely make him an instructor next turn since he's worth 3:science: per turn as long as we are running Rep.

Moved axe on El-Dorado N goldmine to the SW goldmine and fortified. Promoted warrior to axe. Moved one spear into city and fortified. Moved other spear to join sword and will move toward HGems if it looks worth it after seening what happens IBT or will work on defenses around El Dorado if HGems situation still looks hopeless.

El Dorado - Change settler (9) to archer (6). City will grow next turn and not even be unhappy - depending on situation I'll either rush unit or start another. Only going to make the one archer but for THIS city since it is on a hill and it is a cheaper, quicker build I think it makes sense. We can leave him an archer but then buy a quick promotion to longbow if we are threatened in the future.

Thought about withdrawing the troops and letting him just take the city but agree that we have a much better chance to hurt him on the defense. Three fortified units vs 4 attacking... if we are REALLY lucky we may keep city but at worst we should kill at least one of his units.

Hannibul only has 40 gold and he won't give it to us. He won't give us any techs either.

I know opinion was divided on this but going for peace with Khan. We lost a lot of unhappiness but it will be back when we declare again.

SO scared to hit end turn here. I hate to see what those elephants do!

IBT: HaithaGems razed with no loses to Gandhi. He didn't even take much damage. :(

Sword: 1.2/6
Elephants: 2.9/8, 6.4/8, 8/8 This is trouble. :(

1) Turn 221 - 815 AD

It seems like El Dorado is his most likely target so pulling the troops in to defend the mines and the city. If I could get there in time I'd try to take out the injured but he'd be healed by the time I can get there.

Axeman took out barb spear on New Sarai corn.

Great General is now an instructor at Nidaros which took one turn off of research.
Great Engineer lightbulbs machinery. We can now build berserkers as soon as we finish CS.

Can trade corn and gold to Hannibal for Fur and 7gpt. Don't really think this is a great deal so don't make it. Could also trade corn or gold for the fur but we don't need happy right now. Might be a good trade right before we redeclare to help with war weariness.

Change research to 60% which is -4gpt. Civil Service due in 13.

Nidaros build changed from market (5) to axeman (3).
Yayoi build changed from trireme (7) to spearman (13). Plan to rush this later to get back to trireme before we start losing hammers to decay.

We are really hurting for defensive units in the north. The army in the south is healing atm and will start toward Ning as soon as it is healed.

IBT: Gandhi 3 elephants start moving toward El Dorado. Was hoping he'd sit longer to heal before moving. Swordsman is apparently healing.

2) Turn 222 - 830 AD

Uppsala finishes swordman and starts axeman for city garrison. It only has a spearman (and the new swordsman) in it now. New sword starts moving south to join army.

IBT: One elephant moved to corn. The two damaged elephants moved back to the sword (old HGems site).
We'll lose the corn but with the extra time I'm a lot more confident that we'll keep the city and the mines.

3) Turn 223 - 845 AD

Iron Sheep: Market --> Spearman (9)
El Dorado: Archer --> Spearman (3)

Had planned to start moving army toward Ning but several are still damaged so wait another turn for healing. Change my mind and start moving the healed units with the cats so that we can start bombard right away and the rest catch up for next turn. Unit supply starts costing us again (I'd moved them all into city to heal to save money and because units heal faster in own territory).

Barbarian axe bugging Hannibal's city down south. Barbarians will be a problem again with all that open territory. Need to keep some troops in New Sarai to keep those developed villages from being pillaged.

IBT: Elephant pillages El Dorado corn. Other 3 units still healing on old city site. Random thought - maybe we should settle it one east of where it was - that would mean he'd have to attack across river next time and would still get us the good tiles.

Hannibal has Engineering now but isn't willing to trade it. I ask him to friendship gift us CS every turn but so far no good. I don't expect it but I've been shocked in the past so can't hurt to try. :)

4) Turn 224 - 860 AD

Nidaros axeman finishes and build goes back to previously started market. Due to the extra xp building here I slot in one more axeman so now Axe (3) Market (6). Room for one more unit before decay on market. Unless troops needed desperately I'll finish market next so that we are all set to build UU there when research finishes.

Move the newly completed Nidaros axe toward El Dorado. Will leave the next one as garrison.

El Dorado isn't growing anymore due to losing the corn. Other then moving off of gold mines, there is no way to change this.

IBT: Gandhi elephant stays on corn to pillage road. Rest still healing although a second elephant is now at full health.

5) Turn 225 - 875 AD

Chariot moved to fog bust west side of New Sarai.

New Sarai out of revolt this turn. Courthouse in... 44! I change it to grow faster (15) and that pushes courthouse out even further to 59 turns but I'm thinking we'll whip it after growth. We finally have a city with a religion if we want to use it for culture. In 15 turns this city will pick up two villages which will help quite a bit.

Sell corn to Hannibal for 6gpt which brings us to +1gpt at 60% science. Unit support is only 15 gpt atm but since every city except New Sarai has a unit in production this will be getting higher.

6) Turn 226 - 890 AD

Uppsala: Axeman --> Forge (17)

Elephant at El Dorado moved to hill just south of city I think headed for our village. Spearman had 67% chance so risked it and attacked and lost. Second spearman had 99.9% chance and killed won. So we traded one spear for one elephant which I'm happy with. The rest of his stack is still sitting on old HGem site.

El Dorado slots in another spearman however we'll need to go back to settler soon if not to decay. Wish that stack would come attack El Dorado so we could get rid of it. I don't dare take the army to it. It is healing really slowly which I don't understand since it is in neutral territory. Stack is now: Elephant 8/8, Elephant 4.5/8, Swordsman 3.6/6. Wish now I'd taken units over right away to try to mop up. Apparently only one promoted (which is why it is healed) and it took... 25% vs siege engines???

7) Turn 227 - 905 AD

IBT: Oddly, the injured elephant (5.3/8) moves toward El Dorado leaving the other two behind. Maybe that injured spear was too much temptation to resist. Spear is too injured to attack so retreats back into city to heal. Hopefully phant will keep coming!

Advance southern Ning-hsia army runs into a barbarian archer. One of the cats needs 1 point to promote and has 94.8% chance to win so go for the promotion... and... wins! It was the bombard cat not the city raider cat so being hurt shouldn't matter.

Nidaros: Axeman --> finishing market (5)

Barbarian culture south of New Sarai and east of Hannibal's Thapsus.

8) Turn 228 - 920 AD

Hannibal has theology now. He still won't trade engineering but would give us any of feudalim, theology, civil service, or optics if we had anything he wanted to trade.

Axeman promoted with formation (25% vs mounted) takes out the wounded elephant. Gandhi is down to one elephant one sword now which are still back at HGems site.

Moved chariot to scout barb city and it is in a decent spot. We will probably want to grab this after Ning-hsia if Hannibal doesn't get it first. Atm has 3 archers in it - if my army was still in New Sarai I'd try to grab it now but they are almost to Ning atm.

9) Turn 229 - 935 AD

Hannibal offers fish for gold but I pass.

El Dorado finishes spear and is back to settler. Not sure this is what we want but letting it go because we will need it sometime soon and I don't want to lose hammers to decay. City wasn't growing anyway and won't until we can get the corn hooked up so at least we aren't losing growth. It can be rushed in 2 as well but leaving this for Mark to decide what to do with it 'cause I really don't know what is best here.

Khan has a catapult protecting two workers which are building a road on his iron. It is still outside his culture so no mine. Was putting the troops on the forest next to the mine but move the stack so that he doesn't catapult us when we declare. Unfortunately we can't see into his city from outside borders so no way to know what is in there. There are nine troops there - 5 swords, 3 cats and 1 medic spear so hopefully that is enough. I moved the entire army except for one spear and one axe which stayed to city garrison and it never occured to me until now that it might not be enough but with him most likely having longbows in there now I'm worried.

MM Nidaros to grow faster and finish market one turn later - it will finish the same turn we get CS so Nidaros can go straight to building berserkers.

Taking a look at the power chart, Gandhi's power has steadily risen so we can probably expect another landing before too long. I think we have enough army up north to be safe now although I'll feel better when we have some berserkers to back up the others.

Tried to make a demand from Khan in hopes he'd declare next turn on us so we'd save faction with Hannibal but apparently you can't demand during peace treaty. Might be worth trying next turn as he has 110 gold but will leave that to Mark to decide. I don't do this very often so not sure if there are issues with doing this I don't know about.

Um... Hannibal has enough on his hands right now... he's pleased and I don't really think he's after us but interesting to note.

Moved worker to road toward corn and to hopefully tempt another elephant over to be killed. :)

10) Turn 230 - 950 AD

It worked... elephant came after the worker but unfortunately the sword came with it this time. Worker retreating into city. Without the road we can't attack this turn but can hopefully finish them off next turn. If we are really lucky they will split to pillage and you can pick them off easily.

The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD0950_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 800 AD to 950 AD:

Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (8.56)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 4.6%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (56/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (43/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (30/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (17/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (4/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 13 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Catapult has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.60) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (5.34)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 79.7%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (53/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (33/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.60) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (3.93)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 95.1%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 21 (35/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 21 (14/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (5.28) vs Genghis Khan's Catapult (3.03)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 93.6%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 14 (66/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 14 (52/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 14 (38/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Genghis Khan's Catapult!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman (2.97) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (2.51)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 66.3%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (33/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (12/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman (3.68) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (2.11)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 90.9%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (48/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (29/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (10/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman (4.40) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (3.00)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 93.7%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 17 (16/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: You have captured New Sarai!!!
Turn 220, 800 AD: You have made peace with Genghis Khan!
Turn 220, 800 AD: You have discovered Meditation!
Turn 220, 800 AD: You have discovered Monotheism!
Turn 220, 800 AD: You have discovered Horseback Riding!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant (9.60) vs Geezers's Spearman (9.80)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 36.5%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant has defeated Geezers's Spearman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant (9.60) vs Geezers's Axeman (6.75)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 88.5%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman (6.00) vs Geezers's Axeman (6.50)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Combat Odds: 32.9%
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 220, 800 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 220, 800 AD: HaithaGems (Geezers) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 220, 800 AD: HaithaGems has been razed by the Indian Empire!!!

Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Spearman (2.66)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 221, 815 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 221, 815 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Barbarian's Spearman is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Barbarian's Spearman is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Barbarian's Spearman is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Barbarian's Spearman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 221, 815 AD: Geezers's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Spearman!
Turn 221, 815 AD: You have discovered Machinery!
Turn 221, 815 AD: Ivan the Terrible (Great General) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 222, 830 AD: You have trained a Archer in El Dorado-sala. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 222, 830 AD: The borders of Iron Sheep have expanded!
Turn 222, 830 AD: Bernard Montgomery (Great General) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 222, 830 AD: Carl Friedrich Gauss (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme (2.00) vs Barbarian's Galley (1.42)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Combat Odds: 88.1%
Turn 223, 845 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 223, 845 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Geezers's Trireme has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 223, 845 AD: You have trained a Axeman in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Market.

Turn 225, 875 AD: You have trained a Spearman in El Dorado-sala. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman (4.80) vs Gandhi's War Elephant (4.44)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Combat Odds: 67.1%
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant has defeated Geezers's Spearman!
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman (4.80) vs Gandhi's War Elephant (1.77)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 24 (16/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 226, 890 AD: Geezers's Spearman has defeated Gandhi's War Elephant!
Turn 226, 890 AD: You have trained a Axeman in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 226, 890 AD: John Dalton (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 227, 905 AD: The enemy has been spotted near El Dorado-sala!
Turn 227, 905 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (3.00)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Combat Odds: 94.8%
Turn 227, 905 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Geezers's Catapult has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 227, 905 AD: Galileo Galilei (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 228, 920 AD: The enemy has been spotted near El Dorado-sala!
Turn 228, 920 AD: The enemy has been spotted near El Dorado-sala!
Turn 228, 920 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for El Dorado-sala.
Turn 228, 920 AD: Geezers's Axeman (6.00) vs Gandhi's War Elephant (5.02)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 228, 920 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 228, 920 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 228, 920 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 19 (47/100HP)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 19 (28/100HP)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 19 (9/100HP)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 228, 920 AD: Geezers's Axeman has defeated Gandhi's War Elephant!
Turn 228, 920 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a War Elephant!
Turn 228, 920 AD: You have trained a Spearman in El Dorado-sala. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 229, 935 AD: The enemy has been spotted near El Dorado-sala!
Turn 229, 935 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 229, 935 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Iron Sheep.
Turn 229, 935 AD: Yayoi will grow to size 7 on the next turn
Turn 229, 935 AD: Tipu Sultan (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 229, 935 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Gandhi

Turn 230, 950 AD: The enemy has been spotted near El Dorado-sala!
Turn 230, 950 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!


Interesting it included part of what happened on Sam's turn I guess cause I started in 220 and he ended in 220 so it counted it for both of us?

From turn 1 : "Yayoi build changed from trireme (7) to spearman (13). Plan to rush this later to get back to trireme before we start losing hammers to decay."

I think to avoid decay we need to be back on the trireme by next turn. Since the situation is stabalized it might be worth flipping so the trireme is first and spear finishes up afterward if rush doesn't look good. I forgot to take care of this so pointing it out so you can look at it. Yayoi grows next turn as well... my brain is fried I don't know what is best here so somewhat glad I forgot in this case.

I can't believe it takes me almost four hours to play 10 turns. :crazyeye:

Nice work, Jenarie. I knew your cautious instincts would see us through and manage our risk appropriately. No major losses was the objective and you achieved that. Mark can now mop up and move on.

Nicely managed Jenarie. :goodjob: You had posted about half your turnset when I had a check this morning before going to work so it's nice to see we didn't suffer too much damage. I'm somewhat concerned that we're leaving those gold mines by the water unprotected although I understand why you did it. Let's just hope that Ghandhi doesn't make another landing there.

Looking forward I think we need to reassess our objectives. It's 950 AD and we haven't even got Bureaucracy yet. I suggest that once we take Ning-Hsia we consider whether it's worth continuing the war with Khan. This war is dragging on far too long and taking our economy down with it. I feel we need to start concentrating on building up our economy and research.

I got it, but I am quite busy at work at the moment. I try to play tomorrow, but on Saturday at the latest.

I am not opposed to the idea of peace with Khan, because in a quest to get Gandhi to the stars the earliest, we need him to have as many tech trading partners as possible, so having him in around - in a position where he can't threaten to win himself, wouldn't be all bad.

Again, we come back to the principle that our number one objective must be to survive until the space race. But, beserkers and caravels must be top targets right now.

I hope we hear from Thrallia soon! It is miserable to lose your computer so I feel sorry for him but I also feel sorry for us losing out on all his ideas! :)

Good job on handling the herds. :goodjob: I wonder how often he is going to do this:( .
Our navel Mace Men going to be handy when we relocate. It would be nice if we can build up enough to just discourage Gandhi. Hopefully we will remove Khans iron supply before we go for peace.:scan:

Hopefully we will remove Khans iron supply before we go for peace.:scan:

We are at peace, but I doubt that this will last much longer. :trouble:

I can't wait!

wow, Gandhi is getting powerful fast. We'll definitely need to relocate to a different continent at this rate...

As far as Khan is concerned, I'm all for ignoring him once we get rid of his iron. He won't be able to do anything else to us then and it won't be worth it to us to keep fighting him.

However, I think that once we peace him we should spam our settlers southward and allow Gandhi to take some of our northern cities. We can't continue to stay where we are, and migrating to Khan's former lands may be a good bet for at least the short term. With Khan's old improvements in place any cities we plant there should grow fairly quickly.

Finally, after we get CS, what should we research? The only really compelling tech I see to aim for is Optics so we can get contact with more civs. As you guys can see, the AI techs much faster in warlords than it does in vanilla...the AI on monarch is much more difficult to outtech than it was in our last SGOTM.

Oh yeah...I've got my computer back! :D Hurray!

wow, Gandhi is getting powerful fast. We'll definitely need to relocate to a different continent at this rate...

As I commented earlier I don't think this a viable option in the short term. Ignoring the fact that Astro and the necessary galleons are quite some way distant there is also the issue that it will take a while before we have the necessary military strength to invade any other civ. :cry:


As far as Khan is concerned, I'm all for ignoring him once we get rid of his iron. He won't be able to do anything else to us then and it won't be worth it to us to keep fighting him.

However, I think that once we peace him we should spam our settlers southward and allow Gandhi to take some of our northern cities. We can't continue to stay where we are, and migrating to Khan's former lands may be a good bet for at least the short term. With Khan's old improvements in place any cities we plant there should grow fairly quickly.

Finally, after we get CS, what should we research? The only really compelling tech I see to aim for is Optics so we can get contact with more civs. As you guys can see, the AI techs much faster in warlords than it does in vanilla...the AI on monarch is much more difficult to outtech than it was in our last SGOTM.

I agree on peace, tech and settlers. We may have to revisit Khan at a later date, especially if he spams settlers. I disagree on letting Ghandhi getting a foothold until we are ready to move elsewhere. It'll just make it easier for him to attack us.


Oh yeah...I've got my computer back! :D Hurray!

Congratulations. :goodjob: Nice to see you back. Out of interest is this a repaired computer or a new, or at least different, computer?

it is a repaired computer.

I'm working on building an upper end Vista computer, but haven't been able to afford all the parts yet.

Welcome back Thrallia. Just in time too.:)

Well for either short term or long term needs, we must focus on making contact with everyone. This can only be done by knowing optics and the only way to assure we get optics is to learn it ourselves. So I would say this is some thing we all probably agree.

I also agree that we need to spam the land with some zerk backup.;) Once we have Ning H. I am ok with co-existing with Khan.

I also think it is too (way) early to let Gandhi take our Cities. We need to build up our forces here and establish a colony prior to any serious concideration being given to relocation.

But sooner we do it the better off we will be.

BTW we have no idea how many we might be able to contact through culture boundary jumping. May be we can move before Astro? That would be nice.

If we can move before astro, then it would be much easier to do so...Trebs(engineering) and Zerks(CS/Machinery) can easily chew up any civs coastal cities. With just 6-8 galleys full of them we could easily migrate elsewhere if we could reach them.
Edit: Trebs and Zerks are still usable even against rifles because they keep their amphibious trait when getting upgraded!

Note: remember that in Warlords, culture bridges do not collapse upon declarations of war as they do in vanilla.

As for letting Gandhi take our northern cities, I also believe it should not be done till we are close to taking off for better lands(eg. farther from Gandhi!)
With Courthouses and an already established infrastructure thanks to Khan, our settler spamming should do well as long as we send an escort or two with each settler. I feel that we'll be great shape for a science explosion once we do that and get courthouses and an FP up. Additionally we need to decide if we are going to bother with a GP farm up north or if we should turn the city site that was once Karakorum into ours. It had cottages already and a lot of flood plains, generally a good spot for a science/commerce/GP city.

I agree with the general plan then. First, survive. Second, consolidate economy. Third - find everyone else.

Well, the AIs start to find us now. :)

0) 950AD : move a spear and an axe on the jungle hill at El Do. Maybe Gandhi suicides them. However I do not want them to go on that tile as it will be harder to kill them.

IBT : Gandhi decides not to attack the units on the hill and moves on the flat land at El Do :D
Peace deal with Khan expires

1) 965AD : lose a spear on the sword at El DO
spear kills the phant
axe finishes the sword

declare war on Khan

IBT : nothing

2) 980AD : start bombarding Ning Hsia defended by two longbows

IBT : Civil Service -> Optics

Nidaros : market -> zerk

3) 995AD : revolt to Bureaucracy

IBT : we meet Brennus, I trade him alphabet for 30 gold as this is all he offers

4) 1010AD : lose a cat on the attack on Ning Hsia
sword kills longbow in Ning Hsia
sword kills longbow in Ning Hsia and we take the city

we get 154 gold and it already has a trading post and a granary

IBT : Iron Sheep : catapult -> catapult

5) 1025AD : not much

IBT : nothing

6) 1040AD : there is an Indian caravel moving along our Northern coast

IBT : we meet Mehmed II. He is up quite a number of techs

7) 1055AD : just moving units

IBT : Nidaros : zerk -> forge

8) 1070AD : just moving units again

IBT : Yayoi : trireme -> forge

9) 1085AD : we kill three archers at Phrygian and take the city
Ning Hsia comes out of resistance, due to the developed cottages there it even generates a little more money than it costs

I trade corn for silks and gold for 6 gpt to Brennus

This takes away some unhappiness and cities start growing again and our deficit goes down to -8gpt

IBT : El Do : settler -> zerk

Hannibal circumnavigates the world

10) 1100AD : not much

I would resettle Haitha at the same spot. This time we will have better defense there and we should be able to hold it.

A nice productive turnset mark. :goodjob:

EDIT: I've lost track of who's next. :blush: Is it Thrallia?

Roster :

Thrallia - welcome back on deck
Htadus
Sam
Jenarie
Mark - just played
Harbourboy - UP

Well done folks :goodjob: ! That landing could have been dicey, we seem to have come out of it fine. Haitha was a goner the moment he landed, at least we didn't lose El Do.

I took a look at the save... some thoughts:

Big, big picture:

good news: Ghandi is currently teching ahead of all known civs. Some day, when we turn over a nice set of well-developed commerce cities, he is gonna zoom.

bad news: All the other civs don't like Ghandi, and they like each other. I was hoping we could find some tension points between some of the other civs and get them warring with each other (to slow down their tech focus). Also, I am worried that a block will become best buddies and vote someone into a diplo win.

Big picture:

Long term plan is migration. Once we've migrated, our single goal will be survival. I have to think we will fall way behind on techs during the migration process. I believe world events will be beyond our ability to influence (we will be too small and too far behind on techs). A perfect situation would be to find some out of the way continent that we don't need to fight for.

Since we won't be able to influence world events, then we must make sure Ghandi is well situated to win on his own.

Medium picture:

Before we migrate, we need to settle our continent out and get the cities developed as commerce cities before we hand them over. I think we are in a race... with Hannibal and Kahn both established on the continent, they will want to quickly expand. Hannibal may be building a settler in Thapsus as we speak. If we don't grab the land first, we will have less to give to Ghandi. This means he will have less advantage in his race to space. An alternative may be to let Hannibal settle more, then take his cities, but it seems simpler to beat him to settling.

Tactical Picture:

I think we are done warring for a while. Only decision left is do we take Old Sarai from Kahn. I am leaning towards no, I seem to recall it was pretty heavily defended. Once we make peace with Kahn, we won't declare again until our migration. Given that, we only need units to defend... and we may have enough now. Long way of saying I think we can turn off unit building and focus on settlers and infrastucture. Our workers should be building cottages o're the land.

My priority for settlers:

1) Resettle gems city, same spot. Ghandi seems to be inclined to land there, so we need to keep a decent stack to repell all boarders.
1) (yes... 1) We need to quickly settle "pile-of-rubble-formerly-known-as-Karakorum". Because of the proximity of Hannibal, I could be convinced this is higher priority for our first settler than the gem city.
3) Settle the pile of rubble 3 tiles SE of Haitha.

I think this may be it for cities. (I am very happy we decided to take and keep Ning-hsai and Phrygian :) . These will be outstanding cities in Ghandi's quest for space.)

Micro Picture:

Some MM suggestions:

- El Do: switch from zerk to settler. Need to expand, prolly have enough military for a little while.
- Iron Sheep: work the cottages instead of the mines. It will slow the cat build, but we don't need the cat as desperately as we need to advance our commerce/science.
- Yayoi: switch from forge to something else (courthouse or market). This isn't much of a prod city, not sure it needs a forge. We should set it up to squeeze out commerce.
- New Sarai: switch a citizen from the farm to one of the developed cottages. It will slow pop growth by 2 turns, but provide a pile of gold.

Last Thought:

Cottages, cottages, cottages.

Also, I am worried that a block will become best buddies and vote someone into a diplo win.

Diplo is disabled, so we just have to make sure they do not attack Gandhi. :)

Good stuff, markh. I am ready to play now, but I will wait a day to gather all feedback from you all before proceeding. I will therefore be playing in 23 hours' time.

Number one question I need a view on is where to take the Settler that is currently SW of El Dorado sala. It is one turn to get to Old Haitha and 4 turns to get to Old Karakorum.

Also. Nidaros will become doubly unhealthy in 3 turns when it grows and completes its forge. What would you suggest doing to address this? We could whip 2 pop to get Forge now, and/or we can trade our last gold to Mehmet for Cows or Fish, or we could let 'em fester.

Before the forge finishes you can squeeze in an aqueduct, so both finish shortly after another.

I would settle where Haitha was first and the city where Karakorum was after that. As The Hawk suggested you can switch the build in Nidaros to a settler, so we can settle the spots faster. The forge is not an immediate need in Nidaros.

A settler, aqueduct, then forge in Nidaros?

Any more votes for the New Haitha settlement first?

A settler, aqueduct, then forge in Nidaros?

Any more votes for the New Haitha settlement first?

I'll go for New Haitha. Make sure we have a pretty good garrison, although I thing you know that. :) I certainly agree with the idea of settling New Karakorum soonest. If the majority is for New Karakorum first then that's fine by me.

Nice clean up Job Captain.:) I would go for peace if WW is an issue.

I am thinking it would be prefferable to settle the Kara site first.
Reason is if Gandhi come and place a city in the vicinity, since we are at war, we can take or raze it. If Hanny settle the old Kara site, we loose out on a great piece of real estate. So I would go claim that first. Who knows with the travel time needed we can settle both in about the same turn. Oh start grainary in old kara for sure and a grainary or a wall in Haith.

I also believe New Karakorum should be settled first...we don't want Hannibal stealing all those already built cottages!

I would go for peace if WW is an issue.

I am thinking it would be prefferable to settle the Kara site first.
Reason is if Gandhi come and place a city in the vicinity, since we are at war, we can take or raze it. If Hanny settle the old Kara site, we loose out on a great piece of real estate. So I would go claim that first. Who knows with the travel time needed we can settle both in about the same turn. Oh start grainary in old kara for sure and a grainary or a wall in Haith.

I tried to make peace with Khan each turn after taking Ning Hsia, but he does not want to talk to us , yet. I would try it each turn, but would move our units to Old Sarai. If he does agree to peace, we should take it, otherwise just move him from this continent.

I agree that the Kara site should be settled first.

Summary: Settled two cities as planned. Defended against some barbarians. Peace with Khan. No sign of Gandhi. Judaism spreads to us at last. Economy still struggling to get momentum but getting better.

Details:
IBT: Islam has been founded in Bombay

1106 AD: Nidaros: Switched Forge to Settler (5 turns). Settler started moving to old Karakorum.

IBT: Nothing

1112 AD: Barbarian archer shows up near New Sarai. Not much else happened.

IBT: Nothing

1118 AD: Iron Sheep: Catapult => Beserker. Axeman kills Barbarian Archer. Hannibal sends forth a Jewish Missionary. Traded Corn to Mehmet for a precious 9 gold per turn.

IBT: Trireme survives attack from Barbarian Trireme. Temple of Solomon built in a far away land.

1124 AD: Optics => Astronomy. Barbarian axeman heads for Ning-Hsia. :( Chariot is 3 turns away. Only swordsman and spearman defending Ning-Hsia. Mental note: do more fog busting. Settle New Karakorum. Start library for culture pressure on Thapsus. :assimilate:

IBT: Nothing

1130 AD: Uppsala: Forge => Caravel. Rushed Chariot in Ning-Hsia. Will lose a town there to Axeman next turn. :(

IBT: Barbarian Axeman has a brain explosion and attacks Ning-Hsia instead of pillaging. Swordsman successfully defends. :yeah: No loss of town, but now we have an extra Chariot and Courthouse is back to being 89 turns away. University of Sankore built in far away land. Barbarian Warrior shows up near Phrygian.

1136 AD: Chariot kills Barbarian Warrior. Nidaros: Settler => Forge. -17 gold per turn at 60% science.

IBT: Nothing

1142 AD: Nidaros: Forge => Harbour (for +1 health). Traded Gold to Mehmet for Cow for +1 health (nobody had any spare gold to trade). Need to keep an eye on these trades to upgrade them when we get more of our health resources on stream.

IBT: Nothing

1148 AD: Peace with Genghis Khan for 190 gold. We were starting to run short and he didn’t want to give us Feudalism or Theocracy. Peace was the best plan as Old Sarai is chock full of Longbowmen and Catapults and I wanted to devote more forces to defending against Gandhi especially with new city arriving. Haithabu settled. -40 gold per turn at 70%.

IBT: Judaism has spread to our lands in Iron Sheep. We reach a total of 2 million souls.

1154 AD: Not much to say. We now have spare gems to trade, but nobody has anything useful to offer. There is still a goody hut on an island near Old Sarai.

IBT: Nothing

1160 AD: Nidaros: Harbour => Crossbowman. Not much else happened. Started Winery near Phrygia.

What next:
1) Do we adopt Judaism to keep Hannibal happy?
2) Caravel on its way so we can go exploring soon
3) Where will Gandhi strike next?
4) Feel free to change any of my build queues, especially all those buildings that will take forever to build

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD1160_01.CivWarlordsSave

Looks good Harbourboy. :)

I can see the thinking behind Astro but I wonder if Guilds and Banking might be a better tech path to improve our treasury, speed research and help increase our power.

I think Nidaros should start a caravel after the crossbow. More workers and settlers wouldn't go amiss either. I fully agree with The-Hawk that more cottages is good.

We actually have lots of cottages already thanks to Khan. We are building cottages faster than our cities can utilise them. Hopefully we will see the benefit of this as they start to grow into hamlets and villages over time.

A question about your Banking point. Given that we seem to try and run at maximum science, and our use of a cottage economy, and our lack of a holy city - how much benefit would Banking provide us? Would we really be building many banks at this point?

I agree with your doubts re Astronomy but nothing else leapt out as being a must-have. None of the other Civs have Astronomy yet, so hopefully we might be able to get something useful for it in trades (assuming they don't all pick it up themselves in the meantime). Trading away Astronomy is probably not the end of the world because we'd quite like Gandhi to get it (so he can start star-gazing and dreaming of Alpha Centauri - or wherever the heck his spaceship is headed).

A question about your Banking point. Given that we seem to try and run at maximum science, and our use of a cottage economy, and our lack of a holy city - how much benefit would Banking provide us? Would we really be building many banks at this point?

I was mainly looking at techs that would allow us to multiply our gold income. Those two techs with the addition of a market let us double our gold income in selected cities. They're not necessarily the best choice but the prospect of 20 or so turns for Astro didn't seem that appealing. Especially since Optics will allow us to explore the known world.


I agree with your doubts re Astronomy but nothing else leapt out as being a must-have. None of the other Civs have Astronomy yet, so hopefully we might be able to get something useful for it in trades (assuming they don't all pick it up themselves in the meantime). Trading away Astronomy is probably not the end of the world because we'd quite like Gandhi to get it (so he can start star-gazing and dreaming of Alpha Centauri - or wherever the heck his spaceship is headed).

I overlooked the possibility of trades. :blush: Mind you I'm not sure how many civs have guilds either so that might help for trades.

so I'm up next? I'll take a look at the save in awhile and play tomorrow night...gotta get some of my kinks worked out on the WOTM rather than here ;)

Looking forward to all the comments I'll see here in awhile!

on a somewhat related note...what does everyone think of the Apolyton/CFC merger?

I personally dislike it greatly because it will not add to anything I'm interested in, except that I'll have to pay to do things I've been doing for free since Civ4 was released!

I've already joined the break-away site, CPC (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Civ_Players_Center/index.php?act=idx), which Alan has joined as well. I'd like you guys to do so as well if this turns out to not be an April Fools joke, which I suspect it is not since staff such as ALan, Superslug, Methos, and others have all run away to CPC as well.

I don't understand what is going on. I'm just a very simple person and not interested in the politics of websites (no other one I have ever been on has had this sort of drama).

But I come back to a question I asked ages ago about how this site was funded given that it never seems to ask for donations. Surely advertising does not provide that much income. Hosting a big site like this is not cheap.

I will happily go anywhere I can play stuff like GOTM and SGOTM because it adds more spice than playing offline (where you can happily reload or give up if it doesn't all go according to plan).

I believe they pay for the site using banners and cash from their affiliate links.

It can easily be done, if enough traffic is generated.

I don't much care for politics either, but I'm entirely opposed to having to pay to play GOTMs and SGOTMs...thus the reason for the new site Alan and I have joined.

on a somewhat related note...what does everyone think of the Apolyton/CFC merger?


Repeating what I said in the HOF forum:

My two cents... link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5272339&postcount=264)

Hard to believe this isn't a joke... but in case it isn't, you can express your opinion in a poll here: poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=214758)

Bottom line, I will most likely follow the HOF to the new site (CPC)... even if I do lurk on Civjunction, I certainly won't pay to play.

Will someone just tell me what is going on? What a drama this all is. I just want to get on with my various games of the month in peace.

I'm not sure what's going on, I do know Thunderfall said he'd post some more on this sometime today(April 2nd). Until then we'll all be left in suspense over whether or not this is an april fools joke that has outlasted april fools day, or a real merger.

It does seem to have disrupted things somewhat. There have been hardly any posts in any of the GOTM forums over the last couple of days. In two hours it will be 3 April. April Fool's Day was ages ago.

I can just think of a joke. The date is just too suspicious for such an annoucement.

I've never seen such chaos on a website before.

I thought it was a joke but it has gone past funny.

My plan now is to just enjoy the current WOTM and this SGOTM as I don't think if (I still can't help hoping!) they go to a pay service there would be enough participation to be interesting even for the people who may be willing to pay.

I thought it was a joke but it has gone past funny.

They've taken down the announcement from the main page so I think we can assume it was an April Fool that dragged on for far too long.

Hallelujah. I can't believe how panicked everybody got over this.

Thrallia - get on with your turn!

geez...that joke lasted way too long...if TF's laptop was broken, perhaps they should've had someone else end it at midnight!

I'll get to my turns tonight...until then, classes and homework beckon!

comments please on techs and short term strategy!

I played my turns on 1 April my time, so consider every move I made to be an elaborate hoax. In reality, we met Isabella and she wiped us out. So no further strategies required.

comments please on techs and short term strategy!

My comments on possible tech paths etc. are here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5272648&postcount=532).

Hey, how come you guys didn't win anything in the last SGOTM? I thought you were all pros!

even pros don't always win ;)

truthfully, we had a good shot at bronze for a long time...and we just got unlucky with the diplo relations...coulda won a century and a half earlier if we'd had a different opponent...also we just didn't understand the diplo vote modifiers until it was too late for us to get a medal.

Turn 0(1160AD): Change nothing from previous turns...we'll never catch up in tech if we play catch up...only thing I think we can do is go for Astro and trade for all the other techs we missed.
IBT: Brennus asks us to convert to Organized Religion. I refuse because we don't have a religion. Brennus goes down to Cautious...oops, shoulda considered taking it and converting away later
Turn 1(1166AD): Continue cottaging, explore Gandhi's culture covered area of our continent, move the Yayoi trireme into Gandhi's waters to scout.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 2(1172AD): Discover Kolhaper...very well defended. El Dorado Zerk>Worker. IronSheep Zerk>Worker. We need more workers to cottage/chop all our lands. Attempt to re-up our corn agreement with Hannibal, end up losing a net 3 gpt in the attempt :(
IBT: Great Prophet born in Bombay
Turn 3(1178AD): Continue scouting Gandhi's coast. Worker actions continue. Nidaros Crossbow>Settler. We have at least 2 more city sites to settle, so I'm hoping to finish one during my turnset
IBT: Islam Shrine built in Bombay. Khan resettles where Samarqand was! I never even saw his troops...wonder how that happened.
Turn 4(1184AD): Karachi scouted...worthless ice city. Courthouse rushed in New Sarai for 2 pop.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 5(1190AD): Trade Sugar to Hannibal for 5 gpt. New Sarai grows back to 5, Courthouse>Spear. Kill barb warrior attempting to pillage a town in Ning-hsia. Kill barb Sword trying to same thing at Phrygian.
IBT: Scouting trireme caught by Gandhi's caravels.
Turn 6(1196AD): Settler is about to finish, but I don't know exactly where to send him anymore, now that my preferred site is blocked by Khan
IBT: Nothing
Turn 7(1202AD): Workers continuing to build infrastructure. Nidaros Settler>Caravel
IBT: Hannibal discovered Paper
Turn 8(1208AD): Trade our WM to Brennus, Hannibal, Mehmed for a combined 160 gold. Brennus tells me to fear his musketmen...
IBT: Nothing
Turn 9(1214AD): That felt good...Uppsala Caravel>Caravel. Our new Caravel destroys Gandhi's lurking trireme. IronSheep Worker>Forge. Robert E Lee born in El Dorado-sala. Sleeping in El Dorado-sala for now. Settler goes to sleep in New Sarai until team discussion. Treaty with Khan ends, I demand and receive 1gpt in tribute. He refuses to give us his cash though.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10(1220AD): Nidaros Caravel>Caravel

Summary: I began a few caravels so we can explore with some and so we can use others to destroy some of Gandhi's naval power and scout his lands finally.

Cottaging is going apace, although we still need a couple more workers to hurry things up where we've got lots of jungle/forest to deal with.

Khan's city is messing up our possible plans for settling the rest of the continent. With our Zerks, we could possibly take him off out continent now if desired. At the least, we could easily take his new city, and 4!! workers at the same time, giving us the position to settle where I feel we should again. I'm marking that spot with a sign for team discussion...declaring again would also allow our trireme to explore Gandhi's western edge.

Astro is done in 11 turns...if needed try to sell our WM again when we start running low on cash. If we can continue this pace, or close to it, we should get Astro first, giving us a big trade boost(once our caravels are patrolling the seas and find some foreign ports, and giving us the ability to trade it with everyone...getting Gandhi the tech most likely, and catching us up quite a bit.

I still think we should settle at least 1 other position, such as the spot with gold between New Sarai and Ning-hsia. We should also build a few settlers for standby, that can go out on galleons to any uninhabited continent we can find to prepare for our migration.

We are currently 2nd to last in Population, GNP, Crop Yield, and Military, with only Khan being behind us in every one of those categories. On the plus side, we are #1 in land area and #4 in production...I figure that means we just need to develop the land we've got really well and we'll have a really good production and commerce base to hand Gandhi.

Side notes: I no longer know what any other teams are doing because I missed too much time to progressively analyze them...also, I'm gonna start working on our spoiler this weekend(I hope). That also got delayed by my computer issues.

Also, I would have researched Banking if it were immediately available, but it was not...once we get Astro and trade it for everything...we should go for Banking next. Mercantilism would do wonders for our research!(+1 free spec in every city=+3 free science in every city!!)

What's a WM? I know it will be something easy but brain isn't working after all these early mornings watching the Cricket World Cup.

What's a WM? I know it will be something easy but brain isn't working after all these early mornings watching the Cricket World Cup.

World Map ;)

Ah, of course. Nice work, Thrallia. Let them Caravels roll!

It seems execution of our evacuation plan is not too far ahead.:goodjob:

We may want to hold onto our main cities until we are much closer to the modern ages or we could end up wiped out by conquest, rather than taken to space by Gandhi...regardless, having our 'goto' continent settled, or covered by insta-cities(sleeping settlers waiting till needed) as early as possible will increase our likelihood of being able to do so before we have to fight someone else for the land :)

Good progress Thrallia. Nice to finally see some more of Ghandhi's territory. :)


Khan resettles where Samarqand was!


I thought that was Tabriz. :confused: As usual The-Hawk had already identified that location as a suitable spot to settle.


3) Settle the pile of rubble 3 tiles SE of Haitha.


I can see the merits of your suggested city site although the former spot has got better land for cottages.


Cottaging is going apace, although we still need a couple more workers to hurry things up where we've got lots of jungle/forest to deal with.

Guess what Sanchu has a lot of? :evil: Four workers for the cost of 1 Gpt sounds like a good bargain to me. The big downside is that Hannibal really, really likes his bosom buddy Genghis. :cry: So Hannibal is likely to go to war with us if we attack Genghis which makes the workers rather more expensive. OTOH Genghis probably wants that spot so that he can get the horses to attack us again. If we do go to war then it may be worth changing to Police State to reduce WW this time. We'll also have to watch out for Ghandhi attacking us again. Thoughts?


Also, I would have researched Banking if it were immediately available, but it was not...once we get Astro and trade it for everything...we should go for Banking next. Mercantilism would do wonders for our research!(+1 free spec in every city=+3 free science in every city!!)

Ah... the Guilds -> Banking tech path that I suggested earlier. I think I could be persuaded of the merits of that approach. ;)


I began a few caravels so we can explore with some and so we can use others to destroy some of Gandhi's naval power and scout his lands finally.

The two caravels by Yayoi suggest Gandhi didn't appreciate your success. ;)

Ahhh, so that was why I couldn't find Banking...for some reason I assumed banking was required for Guilds, not vice-versa.

I always seem to forget that...its why I tend to run into cash flow problems in the mid game...I never research Guilds because I don't care about Knights that much(spears and pikes are way too common among the AI by that time), and remember too late that banking is past guilds.

As for Gandhi's caravels...they are actually in about the same spot they were before I started exploring Gandhi's territory...they chased down my trireme just past Karachi...its a shame that he could shortcut through the city and I couldn't, or he never would have caught it :evil: +1 movement for our boats is definitely nice...its a shame we lost out on circumnavigation...5 move caravels and 6 move galleons are awesome!

as for the city site...I liked mine because it has good production and commerce...gold is always a nice thing to have, and horses help with production...remember, the biggest limiting factor for the AI in a space race tends to be production, not commerce...we need Gandhi to have so many good production cities that even if he makes stupid choices for part builds, they'll build pretty fast(although we may need to take and raze a few tiny cities that he stupidly builds a part in!)

We need to find some real friends somewhere!

We need to find some real friends somewhere!

Short of getting religion I can't see that happening. Even then the AI acts in it's own interest. However I think it's more a case of power, lots of gold and spies that we need. That way we have a better chance of crippling any adversaries that might attack , out produce or out tech Gandhi.

That's an interesting suggestion you made in the maintenance thread, Thrallia. Although it may not help you in the popularity stakes. ;) However it's not so much the spoiler as the end game write up that's really needed. However I do agree that more spoiler write ups would be nice.

Hmm, spies.... Good point. They could be crucial elements in how we close this game out.

We'll definitely want to prioritize getting spies once we get closer to the modern age.

Re Spoilers: I'm not so much worried about the midgame spoilers as the endgame ones. I like the midgame ones, but understand why people would be hesitant to post one...but there were ZERO post-game spoilers, which I feel shouldn't have happened. Obviously, that means we didn't have one either, but still...22 teams, 19 of which finished, and no one did a spoiler :(

I think requiring at least an endgame one to get a set of laurels would help.

Yes. I want to know how the other teams are so far ahead of us on the Score graph!

Got it. Everything looks good. Who ever chose Astro........:bowdown: Excellent choice. Sorry we lost the Trireme Thralia, but they won't catch our Caravals. BTW. we should send boats in pairs in to Gandhi's terratory.

Plan: Zig zag the two existing caravals east to find the two missing links. Build more Caravals and Zerks as become available. Just thinking. Would it not be great if the two missing civs are immidiately to east of us and backwards? Maintain tech pace through beg burrow or steal.

Yeah...lets talk about steal part of it. We have the forces, we need a west coast city. so why not annex old Sarai? We will most likely get close to 200 gold in the process. We have 4 cats (3 fairly close) and bunch of nice axes, swords and maces. As far as we have crossbowman, we have nothing to worry about Hannies UU's. Heck if my poor immortals can take on the Longbowmen, Zerks should rip them into pieces. Just instigating. Since I originally liked Kahns new city site, all I would do is capture the workers and let it grow to 2 and then capture it for keeps. Please comment on this madness.

We are just about to loose 2 forest tiles from ElDo. I will chop those 2 for the forge and what ever.

We should hire another scientist in Yayoi next turn.

Ning H. and Barb city need culture very badly. 3 and good food sources are being wasted for each. Perhaps we might be able to rush courthouses asap and start a Lib.

I can play tomorrow.

We've also got some Zerks built already that could easily dispatch the LBs in Old Sarai...also, if I recall, Khan had at least 6 workers in there last time we looked, so he may have at least 2 more there that we could get when we capture the city.

Why do we need a west coast city?

Astronomy rules.

Why do we need a west coast city?

Astronomy rules.

Because it takes ages for any vessel on the east coast to get round to the west? :mischief:

Because every time we've tried to go around our continent from east to west, we've had the ship destroyed by pirates or Indians...weird, sounds like the 1500s. lol

Hdatus will save the day.

Guess what Sanchu has a lot of? :evil: Four workers for the cost of 1 Gpt sounds like a good bargain to me. The big downside is that Hannibal really, really likes his bosom buddy Genghis. :cry: So Hannibal is likely to go to war with us if we attack Genghis which makes the workers rather more expensive. OTOH Genghis probably wants that spot so that he can get the horses to attack us again. If we do go to war then it may be worth changing to Police State to reduce WW this time. We'll also have to watch out for Ghandhi attacking us again. Thoughts?


Sorry Sam, I missed this. So you too feel the need. Great. Also Thrallia seem to encourage it. So how does the other 3+1 feel about it?;)

I will play up to the point of gathering the forces in our own areas and check to see if all is OK with it. As I see I won't be the one to knock on Old Sarai. But oh well. :sad: :p I would keep our main city taking team a tile behind the bombardment team if they have cats and only move in at the turn before.

I agree to your plan Htadus. Take him out. :hammer:

I am on turn 6 and an opportunity came up. Kahn trained a settler and it left Sanchu with the cat. So Sanchu is defended by a single LB and a worker, and we have a Zerk, cat and a spear near to DOW next turn and the garrison at Gem City to DoW now. One of our axe is next to the cat and settler and another Zerk and a cat is also nearby.

I say we hit him next turn using the zerk. But I am tired now, so it will need to happen tomorrow. Any comments? See attached drawings. BTW It took 4 turns to find the other continenet and another 2 to find Izzy's portion of the continent. It look very promising with Zerks. I won't post a save......Oh well.....here it is.

EDIT: I like to keep the city for all the river front cottage space it gives and we can replace with mills before we give it to Gandhi.

We have the army I suppose it would be a shame to waste it... :viking:

Crossposted.

Just glanced at the save and I think that all that brown is making our purple ugly. Khan has to go.

Just glanced at the save and I think that all that brown is making our purple ugly. Khan has to go.

You are absolutely right. :yup: Khan has to go.

Isabella has got to go. She hasn't done anything to us yet and she's already a pain.

Poor Khan.

wasn't it nice of Khan to get rid of all the jungle around Sanchu? I say we kill him off :)

The only thing I can definitively say about any of the other teams...is that CRC has already given up their original location to Gandhi...they suffered an almost 4k culture(80% of their total culture at the time) drop during their last turnset...to me that signals that they kept some or all of Khan's cities and have relocated there, until they move off continent(unless they don't plan on going off continent)

I say we hit him next turn using the zerk.

EDIT: I like to keep the city for all the river front cottage space it gives and we can replace with mills before we give it to Gandhi.

Agree on attacking Sanchu with Zerk next turn. The axe should probably attack Khan's cat as well. We can always use more workers. :D Be prepared for the possibility that Hannibal will DoW us.

I think it's also worth rushing the courthouse in Ning-Hsia and the caravel in Yayoi.

EDIT: I agree we should keep Sanchu. Since it looks like we're going to kick Khan off the mainland, should we switch to Police State to minimise WW?

Why do we need so many workers? Our cities aren't using anywhere near all their tiles. And don't workers cost maintenance?

I don't think workers cost maintenance...but regardless, having more workers means finishing the chopping of jungle and production of cottages faster, allowing us to concentrate on other things faster.

Additionally, since each worker is 90 hammers, and a city has to stop growing to build one, the fact that we can get 4 or more workers for essentially free will be a big bonus...its one of the best reasons to beat down an AI early in a game, when you don't necessarily want their cities, you want all their workers! :)

I'm almost positive that workers and settlers both count toward your total number of troops when your army cost is computed.

I do however think that they are worth it - iirc four workers would cost 1gpt total (although that may depend on map size/speed?) and we can do a lot with them that should make up for that cost.

Sum: Meet Izzy and she DoW on us. We take Sanchu at a cost of a Zerk and we loose a cat and a Axe to a LB. We get 5 workers and loose one. Hanny is still Pleased with us.

1220 AD (Turn 260) Start moving Cats Zerks and swords toward Old Kara site. No build changes. Caravals start Zigging and Zagging.
IBT: Mohmed offer OB and we except it since he is soooo pleased with us. Brennes wanted to trade food for Gems but would not throw in 2 gpt. So No deal.

1226 AD (Turn 261) Move units. Gandhi has another caraval by Yayui. Check relations to find Mohmed is not best friends with Brennes. SO no deals.

1232 AD (Turn 262) Meet Issy. Pissed off as usual. She is the one founded Buddhism. Find land to east claimed by Brennus.

1238 AD (Turn 263) Nidaros and Upps: Cara>Zerk. Movement and checking brennus' land. Arrgh. We lost one of the tiles of ElDo to India. It need Culture. Renegotiated corn for 2 more gpt with Hanny.

1244 AD (Turn 264) Yayui grew and hired another scientist. It appears Brennus and Mahmed share a continent/island. Science at 50% & Astro in 8. Sanchu grow to 2.:0

1250 AD (Turn 265) Sanchu has a settler. Issy also share the continent with Brennus and Mahmed.

1256 AD (turn 266) Sanchu is protected by just one LB. Moving units to attack Sanchu and settler and cat.
IBT: Mahmed wanted to trade fish for gems but won't give 1gpt. So no.

1262 AD (Turn 267) Dow and capture 1 worker and a settler. Move 4 units into place.
IBT: Khan send a LB to kill the Cat protecting a worker roading to Old Sarai.

1268 AD (Turn 268) Axe with 82% chance die by the LB :cry: . Zerk with 27% die at Sanchu. Axe from Haitha take the city. Not a very good turn. Cordoba is defended by 2 maces, Pikeman, LB and a Phant.
IBT: 2 of Gandhi's Caravals kill our 2 near Yayui.:mad:

1274 AD (Turn 269) Nidaros: Zerk>Cara. Rush Lib in New Sarai (was in revolt) and Courthouse in Ning-H. There is a Phant and 2 Xbows on the Indian side near Iron-Sheep.
IBT: Issy DoW on us and kill one of our Caravals :mad: . This is good in a way. If we can get the Civs over there to DOW on her just before when we can attack, she might be week enough to take easily.

1280 AD (Turn 270) Start cat in New Saria and a Lib In Ning Hsia. Rush Forge in ElDo. Move troops. We do not have the troops to kill the force at Old Sarai. I would keep building units for a While.

Interesting Combat Odds
Turn 268, 1268 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman (5.50) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (4.14)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 83.2%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (10.20)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 23.7%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Berserker!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Subutai (Great General) has been born in Old Sarai (Genghis Khan)!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Berserker has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman (6.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (1.20)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured Sanchu!!!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Iron Sheep.
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Geezers's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 32.6%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Geezers's Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: While defending, your Caravel was destroyed by a Indian Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Geezers's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Geezers's Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: While defending, your Caravel was destroyed by a Indian Caravel!


Wonders Built +

Turn 260, 1220 AD: The Church of the Nativity has been built in a far away land!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: The Spiral Minaret has been built in a far away land!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Angkor Wat has been built in a far away land!
Turn 267, 1262 AD: Hannibal adopts Theocracy!
Turn 269, 1274 AD: The Hagia Sophia has been built in a far away land!

Da Zave
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD1280_01.CivWarlordsSave

Who's up...Jenarie?

oh no no no not me! Sam first before its my turn to panic! ;)

Unless I missed a skip request somewhere, current roster is:

Sam - UP
Jenarie - on deck
Mark
Harbourboy
Thrallia
Htadus - just played

Isabella is pretty low on the power chart... right above us and below everyone else (except for Kahn of course who is dead and just doesn't know it yet). It might be pretty easy to get someone to declare on her since she is so weak compared to the rest of them.

Gandhi is doing quite well even without our help. He's got by far the highest power rating with Brennus, Hannibal, and Mehmed all clumped near second and then a large gap and then Izzy and then us. His production looks decent although he's only fourth. If we can just get him to dream of space instead of troops it doesn't look like he'll have any trouble getting there. The bright side of his power rating is that no one is going to look at him and see target... unlike us who have a big bullseye painted on our backs. :)

Brennus hates (furious) Isabella and Hannibal is annoyed with her. Unfortunately both of them have "enough on our hands right now." Hurting Izzy isn't going to be a great thing as she is Gandhi's number one trading parter atm but he has other friends so I'm sure he'll get over it eventually if we have to be mean to his girlfriend. :lol: I find it funny that Brennus & Gandhi are about tied and way ahead of the rest of the pack in culture and are trading each other stone for marble.

I agree we need troops but I also think we should get courthouses up soon as well. We could save at least 3gpt each in Upsalla, Iron Sheep, Yayoi, and New Karakorum. Plus the one we have being built we could have 16 more gpt. I know though that it is hard to slot these in but we need them eventually and the sooner the better imo somehow balanced with need for troops.

Izzie has elephants good thing we have all those spears. I'm babbling now so thats enough random thoughts for tonight. :)

I TOLD you that Isabella had to go.....

Jenarie...another benefit of those courthouses is that we'd then have enough to build the forbidden palace in New Karakorum...which would further decrease our maintenance costs.

As far as Izzy goes...I'm less interested in killing her off and taking her land, than I am in finding an uninhabited continent and moving there.

Hmm, Izzy's always tends to be a pain. However since she doesn't have Astro at present I'll ignore her for the present. Khan seems to have a similar garrison in Old Sarai to the one he had in Old Sarai that cost me so many units. :( I'll build up a few more units to make sure of it this time. I also want to make sure we've got reasonable defences against Ghandhi & Hannibal in case they decide to dogpile us. This may mean that Jenarie gets the joys of attacking Old Sarai. Do we want to wipe out Khan or just kick him off the mainland?

Techwise I'm proposing Guilds and Banking after Astro. Any other thoughts?

I want to try and get our southern cities expanding their borders so I may well change some of the builds to help that and rush where possible. I'm not sure what we can do to counter Bombay's cultural influence against El Do though. IIRC we can't build caravels after we get Astro so I may delay Astro by a turn or two to let current build(s) finish. I'll look at the need for CH's, but won't be my highest priority. I want to have a good look at what our workers are doing. Some of their current tasks strike me as inappropriate.

I won't be playing before this evening at the earliest. Possibly not until tomorrow morning. Comments gratefully received.

EDIT: I believe we still have a GG in El Do which I think I'll use to create a military academy in Nidaros.

I think you can build Caravels for ages yet. Definitely can still build them when you have Galleons.

I think you can build Caravels for ages yet. Definitely can still build them when you have Galleons.

Ah, perhaps you can no longer build caravels once you research Chemistry when frigates are available instead. I thought it was earlier than that but I'm happy if I was wrong.

I realize it has to be balanced against more pressing demands but I'm a huge fan of courthouses. In my opinion, every turn we don't have one is just gold thrown away. Considering our financial/tech situation I'd think they should be pretty high priority.

Khan is going to hate us forever so I'd hate to leave him around at this point and yet I'm not really sure if it is worth ferrying an army over to his island to wipe him out either. But on the other hand we sorta need boats over there anyway. But then again (am I up to three hands?) galleys aren't what we'd chose to put there. I can be happy either way... pushing him off our continent or wiping him out.

I definately see Izzy's land as our New Home. But I would like to see us wait it out in our current areas for a while. At least we should beat everyone to space elevator tech and build it for Gandhi and then do the right thing and let gandhi take most of the cities and give the rest to gandhis tech trading partner.

I think building Courts is an excellent idea but we need to boats and units. So I suggest we build courthouses in those southern cities after they get the basics....grainary and culture if there are productive tiles outside. We should rush the grainary and then the rest also. We probably can get better production through wipping versus using shields. May be we should use food and gold tiles mainly for growth.

Ok we've got Astro and I need some advice. We've met Washington but just a little while later in the same turn Hannibal vassalised him. :eek: The various trade offers are below:


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM04/BrennusOffer-1296AD.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM04/HannibalOffer-1296AD.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM04/MehmedOffer-1296AD.jpg


Mehmed looks the obvious choice but should I try to trade to Brennus as well? I don't really want to trade to Hannibal as he may get the wrong sort of ideas. :crazyeye:

When I went to select Guilds I discovered that Feudalism is a pre-req. Thrallia's not the only one that forgets to check the pre-reqs. :blush: I've selected Engineering as a placeholder for the time being. If I trade with Mehmed should I go for something other than Guilds?

Game save is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/79775/Geezers_AD-1298.CivWarlordsSave).

EDIT: Hannibal has Knights and Brennus has Muskets.

If we trade with one of them for the long list, the other should give us engineering and some gold. So that puts us pretty much caught up.

It looks like research can go back to 40% which would make guilds 13 turns. Printing press is another option if we end up trading for all the prerequisites... we have willages/towns now so that would be instant more gold. It may be a faster economy fix then guilds > banking - worth at least checking once we see the times after the pre-reqs go in. Not sure if the AI usually researches that? It may also be good for trading but I don't know well enough to say what the chances are of that.

It looks like research can go back to 40% which would make guilds 13 turns. Printing press is another option if we end up trading for all the prerequisites... we have willages/towns now so that would be instant more gold. It may be a faster economy fix then guilds > banking - worth at least checking once we see the times after the pre-reqs go in. Not sure if the AI usually researches that? It may also be good for trading but I don't know well enough to say what the chances are of that.

I put the research rate down from 50% when we only had one turn left to research to build up some funds. Good point about Printing Press. I'll wait for some more comments before I continue playing.

Do you think we have a chance at Libaralism? If so I would make sure to get the prereqs for that and all the gold from the AI to start on Education. A good free tech like Nationalism or Mil Trad would come in handy for survival situation. Either case, I would get most of the techs and the gold. Since we have not been trading for long there should not be any WFYBTA crap. I would just check to see which civ has the most sensitivity to trade and trade with them first. There is a good article on this subject in the forums.

Wow, they all have Paper. That is usually my 'go to' tech as the AI never researches it early and I can usually sell for it for heaps.

I think Liberalism would be very tough from here.

I think we have virtually no chance at Liberalism from this point...Don't forget we need Philo as well, Gandhi already has that, and likely is well on his way to Education.

I think going for Printing Press makes the most sense, because it is something the AI generally ignores on Warlords, at least for awhile. So...I'd say trade with Mehmed, then get Engineering, then the next turn see if we can get Guilds from Hannibal(he's the one with knights already, right?) If we are lucky, they won't go trading away Astro yet so we can get something the next turn still.

I'd also see how much cash you could get from everyone by selling our WM...I recently got over 500 gold in one turn from 4 AI when I first became able to sell my WM...it tends to be an easy source of gold when needed.

Summary

Attack force near Old Sarai. The world is less peaceful. Brennus declared war on Izzy and Mehmed declared war on Brennus. :crazyeye: Washington is Hannibal's vassal. Thanks to Astronomy and subsequent trades we are less behind on the tech front.

Turn 270 - 1280 AD
MM Ning-hsia for production. Move GG from El Do to Nidaros. Rush caravel in Yayoi. Time to Astro increases to 3 turns.

Turn 271 - 1286 AD
El Do Forge -> Catapult, IronSheep Forge -> Crossbow, Yayoi Caravel -> Courthouse. Caravel sent W to scout Ghandhi's land further.

:blush: Discover the GG can't create a military academy until we know Education. Send GG to Uppsala. Rush library in New Karakorum . MM New Sarai for production.

Turn 272 - 1292 AD
Meet hindu Washington (annoyed).
Nidaros Caravel -> Xbow, Uppsala Beserker -> Catapult, New Karakorum Library -> Granary.
Washington capitulates to Hannibal. :ack: Settle Robert E. Lee in Uppsala as military instructor. A couple of Izzy's caravels appear near Ning-hsia.

Turn 273 - 1298 AD
Astro comes in. Pfft! Guilds has a pre-requisite of Feudalism. Select Engineering as placeholder. See what the AI will give for Astro. In the process learn that Hannibal has knights and Brennus has musketmen. Stop to ask team for views on way forward. Following comments I trade Mehmed Astro for Drama, Feudalism, Theology, Paper and 50 gold. Following a useful nugget of information in aelf's challenge thread I put a turn into Engineering.

IBT:
Brennus declares on Izzy. ;) Copper pops by Yayoi. :D

Turn 274 - 1304 AD
Trade Brennus Astro for Engineering, Guilds and 30 gold. Start research into Printing Press.

Turn 275 - 1310 AD
Nidaros Xbow -> Galleon, El Do Catapult -> Pikeman. Rush Granary in New Karakorum. Trade Sugar for Fish to Mehmed.

Turn 276 - 1316 AD
Uppsala Catapult -> Galleon, IronSheep Xbow -> Courthouse, New Sarai Catapult -> Market, New Karakorum Granary -> Courthouse.

IBT:
A pair of Ghandhi's marauding caravels kill our caravel. Sigh. At least we killed one of their caravels.

Turn 277 - 1322 AD
New Sarai grows and becomes unhappy due to WW.

Turn 278 - 1328 AD
Moving troops and scouting.

Turn 279 - 1334 AD
Nidaros Galleon -> Stable. Mehmed declares war on Brennus. :eek: A well promoted LB, trebuchet and settler stop for a breather right next to my attack force. Shortly thereafter we acquire another worker. :lol: Move the rest of the attack force into Khan's lands.

Turn 280 - 1340 AD
Promote the two zerks with CR1. They are healing just outside Khan's borders. I have left the main attack force for Jenarie to move. There are also outstanding promotions for Jenarie to decide. Details of Old Sarai defence below:


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM04/OldSarai-1340AD.jpg


Autolog


Turn 271 (1286 AD)
El Dorado-sala begins: Catapult
Iron Sheep begins: Crossbowman
Yayoi begins: Courthouse
Nidaros finishes: Caravel
Uppsala finishes: Berserker
New Karakorum finishes: Library
Contact made: American Empire

Turn 272 (1292 AD)
Nidaros begins: Crossbowman
Uppsala begins: Catapult
New Karakorum begins: Granary
Caravel promoted: Combat I
Tech learned: Astronomy
El Dorado-sala grows: 7

Turn 273 (1298 AD)
Research begun: Engineering
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 273 (1298 AD)
Tech learned: Drama
Tech learned: Feudalism
Tech learned: Theology
Tech learned: Paper

Turn 274 (1304 AD)
Tech learned: Guilds
Tech learned: Engineering
Research begun: Printing Press
Nidaros finishes: Crossbowman
El Dorado-sala finishes: Catapult

Turn 275 (1310 AD)
Nidaros begins: Galleon
El Dorado-sala begins: Pikeman
Uppsala finishes: Catapult
Iron Sheep finishes: Crossbowman
New Sarai finishes: Catapult
New Karakorum finishes: Granary

Turn 276 (1316 AD)
Uppsala begins: Galleon
Iron Sheep begins: Courthouse
New Sarai begins: Market
New Karakorum begins: Courthouse
New Sarai grows: 7
Caravel defeats (1.80/3): Indian Caravel
Caravel loses to: Indian Caravel (3.00/3)

Turn 277 (1322 AD)
Yayoi's borders expand
Phrygian grows: 3

Turn 278 (1328 AD)
Nidaros grows: 12
Nidaros finishes: Galleon

Turn 279 (1334 AD)
Nidaros begins: Stable
Berserker promoted: Cover
Berserker defeats (4.64/8): Mongolian Longbowman
Berserker promoted: Combat II
Berserker defeats (6.88/8): Mongolian Trebuchet
Iron Sheep grows: 11
New Karakorum's borders expand
Sanchu grows: 2

Turn 280 (1340 AD)
Berserker promoted: City Raider I
Berserker promoted: City Raider I


Turn Log:


Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Geezers's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Combat Odds: 26.7%
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Geezers's Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 270, 1280 AD: Geezers's Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 271, 1286 AD: Leonidas (Great General) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 271, 1286 AD: Washington has capitulated and is now a vassal state of Hannibal

Turn 272, 1292 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 272, 1292 AD: James Clerk Maxwell (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 273, 1298 AD: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: You have discovered Feudalism!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: You have discovered Paper!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: You have discovered a source of Copper near Yayoi!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: Brennus has declared war on Isabella!
Turn 273, 1298 AD: Charlemagne (Great General) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 274, 1304 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 274, 1304 AD: You have discovered Engineering!

Turn 276, 1316 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Geezers's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 276, 1316 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.00) vs Geezers's Caravel (1.80)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 22 (38/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 22 (16/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 276, 1316 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Geezers's Caravel!

Turn 277, 1322 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 277, 1322 AD: Nidaros will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 277, 1322 AD: The borders of Yayoi have expanded!
Turn 277, 1322 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Hannibal

Turn 278, 1328 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 278, 1328 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 278, 1328 AD: Nidaros has grown to size 12
Turn 278, 1328 AD: Iron Sheep will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 278, 1328 AD: Iron Sheep will become unhealthy on the next turn
Turn 278, 1328 AD: Sanchu will grow to size 2 on the next turn
Turn 278, 1328 AD: St. Augustine (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 278, 1328 AD: Mehmed II has declared war on Brennus!
Turn 278, 1328 AD: New Karakorum's cultural boundary is about to expand.
Turn 278, 1328 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Isabella

Turn 279, 1334 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (4.80)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Combat Odds: 98.3%
Turn 279, 1334 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker (9.60) vs Genghis Khan's Trebuchet (4.80)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 279, 1334 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Genghis Khan's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Geezers's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Trebuchet!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Trebuchet!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Iron Sheep has grown to size 11
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Iron Sheep has become unhealthy
Turn 279, 1334 AD: The borders of New Karakorum have expanded!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Sanchu has grown to size 2
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Sun Tzu (Great General) has been born in Bibracte (Brennus)!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: Diyarbakir (Mehmed II) has been captured by the Celtic Empire!!!
Turn 279, 1334 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Mehmed II

Turn 280, 1340 AD: The enemy has been spotted near New Sarai!
Turn 280, 1340 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!



EDIT: Cross post with Thrallia. :ack: I keep forgetting about flogging the WM.

Nice work, Sam. So much can happen in 10 turns. I think I am starting to lose track of where everything is at. I will need to take a close look at the save.

How does everyone think we are placed at the moment.

I do not mean to be rude, but I can not see how anyones any graph can give us a clue as to how well Gandhi is doing. We on the other hand know our Gandhi is doing very well thank you and our biggest concern should be if he is dreaming of cultural glory. If that the case we just need to take one or 2 of those cities out of commission. But from what I hear AI rarely go for culture. I also think the fact that Gandhi is at war with us all the time, leads him to stay powerful too.

no, Gandhi won't go for culture. As for the graphs...the only thing they can tell us anymore is when/if the other teams start migrating away from their original position.

CFR lost 80% of their culture, but grew in power, so they've purposely given up their starting position already...other than that, I can't tell anything from anyone else's graphs anymore except that VQ seems to be attempting a cultural victory of their own lol

I'm not going to be able to play until Wednesday night. Mark, if you can play before then please go ahead and grab it.

Do we pretty much know what we want to do in the next 10 turns?

I will not be able to play today, so you can take it, Jenarie. I still have to catch up and take a look at the save. We are quite far in the game, so we are not in a hurry. :)

I think the goals for the next sets are to keep on pounding Khan and to build up a force to move our home.

Nice set, Sam. :goodjob:

:goodjob: yes, it looks good...I think that for our relocation force, if we truly wish to take out Izzy rather than simply find an empty continent...that we will need 4 galleons of Zerks, 2 galleons of Trebs(much better for city attacking than cats), and a couple galleons of workers/settlers.

We'll also need to decide if we wish to take over her cities or simply raze/resettle them.

Techwise: I wonder if we shouldn't either trade for Banking right now, or research it immediately.

Banking gives access to Mercantilism...and right now, Mercantilism/Representation would give us a nice big tech boost...that would enable us to then research Printing Press faster and regain any lost commerce from trade routes.

:goodjob: yes, it looks good...I think that for our relocation force, if we truly wish to take out Izzy rather than simply find an empty continent...that we will need 4 galleons of Zerks, 2 galleons of Trebs(much better for city attacking than cats), and a couple galleons of workers/settlers.

We'll also need to decide if we wish to take over her cities or simply raze/resettle them.

I doubt that there's an empty continent to find. Mehmed attacking Brennus may mean that there's more left of Izzy's land for us. However I think we need to remember that it's not just a matter of giving Ghandhi land but also slowing down any opposition, both military and scientific. Spies need lots of gold so we may still want to hang onto our southern lands.


Techwise: I wonder if we shouldn't either trade for Banking right now, or research it immediately.

Banking gives access to Mercantilism...and right now, Mercantilism/Representation would give us a nice big tech boost...that would enable us to then research Printing Press faster and regain any lost commerce from trade routes.

Well, Banking will take 8 turns at our current research rate. Add a turn for revolting to Mercantilism and you're up to 9 turns. Printing Press is 13 turns away at our current research rate. I'm not convinced the numbers support your case. Am I missing something?

nothing you missed, just me...I didn't have a chance to check the save when I posted that, I just thought it was worth noting and bringing up for discussion.

It'd be nicer if we could just trade for Banking, then we'd lose 1 turn for a revolt and gain a couple turns on Printing Press.

Before doing anything else I tried everything I could think of to trade for banking - even up to asking our friends to gift it to us - and it was no go. :)

Banking is faster research then printing press but almost everyone has it so would be worthless to trade. From what I can see, no one has printing press yet so even if we don't get it first we should hopefully get it early enough to get something for it.

I'm looking over everything now and unless I run into any big questions I'll go ahead and play tonight.

Looks like we can trade our two extra gems to Brennus and Mehmed. Pick up a happy and a health resource in return.

How about putting one turn into it, just as Sam did with Engineering?

Would that possibly make a difference?

0) Turn 280 - 1340 AD

Trade Brennus gems for silver.
Move army next to Old Sarai to bombard next turn.
Minor MMing to take advantage of extra happiness from trade.

1) Turn 281 - 1346 AD

IBT: Our gpt changes magically from -16 to +6. Printing press changes from 13 turns to 10 turns. I'm trying to figure out why but popups to deal with before I can look...

Nidaros - Stable finishes ---> Knight (3)
I wouldn't normally build one at this point but as we have a stable and a military instructer it might be nice to have a knight or two to chase down anything that