All very good points by Jon!

I think that assembly line is important not only for the infantry, but also for the factories. So I think we need to go there, then artillery.

Also, infantry are great for the scorched earth strategy. Don't bother attacking cites, just make the terrain a wasteland. I am begining to think that in my solo games I am getting too bogged down in city capture, instead of rapid attrition of the enemy by pillage.

Someone ought to play this weekend. If Immac doesn't play today or post that he can play tomorrow, then I can play tomorrow, although I played right before R1's last play. I will be away Weds to Sat next week, so maybe that makes sense anyway.

dV

No word from Imac, I think dV should play now unless Jon wants to to swap to make up for missing his last turn. Also, the discussion is beginning about a solid end date for this game, I think we need to keep making progress.

I should be able to play this evening. This is what I'd suggest for the turnset:

1. In the South West, our galleons can ferry troops over to our staging point (Thapsus)
2. once our 3 firgates in the south are all fully healed, stack them and clean up gandhi's frigates (maybe we shuld wait for ironclads for this?). Let gandhi attack our boats so we get the +10% coast modifier in our favour
3. Once we have control of the seas there again, begin coastal bombardment of hadrumetum down to 0%.
4. Once coastal defences down to 0%, begin killing defenders from the sea, without capturing the city until 3 turns go by without reinforcements.
5. Capture hadrumetum with a disposeable unit (e.g. a newly build rifleman), ont he assumption he willprob get wiped out between goes
6. Repeat the above for hippo, though keeping the city (should be much quicker).
7. Fortify hippo with CG troops, as this is when other continental civs we are at war with will send troops in (previously, when defending hadrumetum), only hannibal's troops will come)

I doubt all of the above would fit into one turnset.

On the mainland, I'd just be looking for maintaining the status quo as if we burn down celtic cities, we'll get lots of negative modifiers (would be good to get back to peace again for a bit).

I guess we could burn down hannbal's city though.

Sounds like a plan Jon. If you play tonight, I will try to play tomorrow and that would put you back up in the usual rotation (think of today's play as a catch-up round for you) if R1 agrees.

We do need to be mindful that Brennus or Izzy might ferry an SOD to our east coast, so we can't send all troops west, we need to prepare some defense at home too.

And Hannibal had some frigates IIRC so don't forget to plan for that if we are pecking away at him from the sea.

Remember to do something about the 5 unhappy citizens in Turfan.

Any thought that we should convert to Buddhism? Might make Brennus more friendly.

And we have a GE, GS, and GG. GE for ironworks in Karakorum seems to be the plan, but what about the GS? Any thought that a Golden Age (GG + GS) after the GE builds Ironworks) might be just what we need now?

Good Luck! :goodjob:

dV

Good points about SoDs from Brennus, I'll bear that in mind. Most people are buddhist, so I'd be tempted to stay that way rather than convert to hinduism.

GE buliding ironworks in karakorum does seem to be the plan. Slightly odd in that it seems to be more of a commerce city, but in the interest of us getting the game moving ill do it anyway.

GG+GS can't make a golden age, the GG doesn't seem to count like that unfortunately. I'll put the GG in karakorum, as it should be pumping out a lot of troops if it is going to be a high production city. The GS I will keep to see if we get another great preson to initiaite a golden age with, otherwise if we research scientific method he can bulb quite a lot of that.

I think I will wait for ironclads before any naval attacks, as we can't afford to lose our frigates.

Edit: I will play now

OK, so far still consolidating. I saved up cash for the ironclad upgrades, only to find out that frigates upgrade directly to destoryers. Oh well. I've kept cash for emergency upgrades, e.g. if a landing party drops next to a city defended by axemen.

Otherwise, I'm still trying to regain control of the seas and handle the odd drop of troops on our shores.

Savegame uploaded.

Sorry i was away for awhile.
I've really tuned down the civing for awhile (this is my only active game currently), so i don't visit as often as i used to.
I can play a turn as soon as you would like me to.

I am going to be away starting Tuesday night for the rest of this week. Rather than me rushing a tunrset tonight, why don't we see if Immac and g_s can play this week to catch up their recent missed turnsets, then this weekend or early next week at the latest I could play to start a new rotation of the usual lineup. IIRC g_s is avail to play during the week, and Immac is now avail.

Remember that the ironclads are limited to coastal squares, hopefully they can reach Hannibal by coast and culture.

I will try to get a look at the save an post some thoughts before I leave.

dV

dV,
Can you post a roster based on what you know of people being here/away?

@ all,
If you havn't checked out the 'total war' series of games, you should give them a go. I was playing Rome Total War this weekend and quite enjoyed it.

Immac.

Are we going to keep the spainish city once we take it out. I think yes even though it wont be the best city in the world but it will stop people taking over our continent.

I thought about capturing the Spanish city, I agree it might stop people colonising our continent. However, it is founded on gold, which isn't very efficient, so I think we should raze it and build a new city adjacent so it can use the gold (and therefore perhaps pay for itself).

Also, I did think that leaving city sites available could be a way of dimishing the enmy landing stacks of doom by sea- they'll found cities instead, and the troops there will be used for defense instead of offense, making it easier to counter and push them back into the sea!

dV,
Can you post a roster based on what you know of people being here/away?
Immac. At the risk of being charged with impersonating an R1, the last roster (which has the usual rotation where I start a new round) posted by R1 was as follows:

"The Roster order is

da_Vinci - on deck
Jon Shaw - skipped
Conquistador 63 - skipped
g_storrow - no posts
Ronnie1 - just played
Immaculate -UP NOW"

Now, of the last round, I played, then R1 played. Jon just played, and so my suggestion is that Immac and g_s take their turns for the previous round before I play (which starts a new "inning" if we use baseball lineups as an analogy).

So who can play early this week? Immac or g_s? I know that g_s can't currently play weekends, so maybe if he can play Tues or Weds, Immac can play Thurs or Fri, and I'll play Sat or Sun to start the next inning.

Or if g_s can't play right away, then Immac goes next, and hopefully g_s can play before the end of the week after that.

The key is to get a quick response on who can play when, and then execute the play.

dV

I thought about capturing the Spanish city, I agree it might stop people colonising our continent. However, it is founded on gold, which isn't very efficient, so I think we should raze it and build a new city adjacent so it can use the gold (and therefore perhaps pay for itself).

Also, I did think that leaving city sites available could be a way of dimishing the enmy landing stacks of doom by sea- they'll found cities instead, and the troops there will be used for defense instead of offense, making it easier to counter and push them back into the sea! I think we even have a settler in hand to refound that gold city (Valencia IIRC) with.

If we raze the two other cities on our continent, will our culture prevent enemies from refounding cities? IOW, will our border expand to fill the land space? The resources that they can work may make them worth keeping if we do take them, but that would mean waiting until they are size two.

dV

Nice going Jon!
The key is to get a quick response on who can play when, and then execute the play.I agree 100% here, Imac or g_s please speak up, it doesn't really matter who plays first or second, but it would be great to get a few sets in this week.

Will hopefully get chance today.

Unsure what plan is though?

I have prior commitments for tonight, but am free on wednesday and friday. If g-storrow plays tonight, then i can play tomorrow night and we can get two turn sets in rapid succession.
Depending on G's turnset- maybe we will have to talk about our goals before i play, but maybe not.
If g can't play, then i can play tomorrow (wednesday) for sure.

Immac.

Sounds like a plan. G 1st, Imac next, discussion as necessary.

Will hopefully get chance today.

Unsure what plan is though? My sense is that the plan is to defend the homeland from G, Brennus and Izzy, maybe make peace with Brennus if he is ever willing, and build troops for another crack at Hannibal.

Jon has an idea of amphibious attacks using any grens we have with amphib promotions. Not vulnerable to cannons at sea, so this might be a key.

I'd raze Hannibal's cities that don't have some wonder we want, so that if he forces us back, the damage is done.

Researching to ALine for infantry and factories. Then artilery.

Have I got it right?

dV

I get back late Sat night. If someone else wants to play after Immac before I get back (I'M thinking Jon), then we could flip and I'll play after. That is if the play goes that fast.

In middle of playing will post by this evening for immac.

Took isabella city and put our own in, built culture to 15 then switched to granary.

got peace of brennus for 220 gold.
we can trade for isabellas dye but forgot to do that.

Gandhi invaded I noticed a bit late and had to upgrade a few troops.

we dont have much money left.

didnt trade steam power to washington big mistake when we got corporatino he had it! DOH!

Didnt really attack gandhi ships that much as he will just rebuild them but attacked brennus's.
apart from that not much else.
Session log
urn 363, 1679 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 363, 1679 AD: Antoine Laurent Lavoisier (Great Scientist) has been born in Bombay (Gandhi)!
Turn 363, 1679 AD: Nain Singh (Great Engineer) has been born in Utica (Hannibal)!

Turn 365, 1685 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (13.20) vs Isabella's Rifleman (7.36)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Combat Odds: 97.1%
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: (Combat: -35%)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 365, 1685 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Isabella's Rifleman!
Turn 365, 1685 AD: You have captured Valencia!!!
Turn 365, 1685 AD: You have destroyed the city of Valencia!!!
Turn 365, 1685 AD: You have discovered Corporation!

Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (10.40) vs Brennus's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Combat Odds: 72.1%
Turn 366, 1688 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate has defeated Gypsy Kings's Frigate!
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (9.60) vs Brennus's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Combat Odds: 67.6%
Turn 366, 1688 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 366, 1688 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate has defeated Brennus's Frigate!

Turn 367, 1691 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (7.77) vs Brennus's Frigate (5.56)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Combat Odds: 88.6%
Turn 367, 1691 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (63/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (45/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 18 (27/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Brennus's Frigate is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate has defeated Brennus's Frigate!
Turn 367, 1691 AD: Bjørgvin has been founded.

Turn 368, 1694 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Chehalis!
Turn 368, 1694 AD: Karakorum will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 368, 1694 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Nidaros to 0%!

Turn 369, 1697 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: You have made peace with Brennus!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: You have made peace with Isabella!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: Karakorum has become unhealthy
Turn 369, 1697 AD: Haithabu has become unhappy
Turn 369, 1697 AD: The borders of Thapsus have expanded!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: A Plantation has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Grenadier!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: Brennus adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 369, 1697 AD: Zhang Qian (Great Merchant) has been born in Washington (Washington)!

Turn 370, 1700 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Thapsus!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (10.40) vs Hannibal's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Combat Odds: 67.1%
Turn 370, 1700 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Your Frigate has destroyed a Frigate!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 54%!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 48%!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Brennus has 19 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 370, 1700 AD: A Village has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Grenadier!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gandhi adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate (9.60) vs Gypsy Kings's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Combat Odds: 58.6%
Turn 370, 1700 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 370, 1700 AD: Hannibal's Frigate has defeated Gypsy Kings's Frigate!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: While defending, your Frigate was destroyed by a Carthaginian Frigate!
Turn 370, 1700 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Isabella

Turn 371, 1703 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (15.60) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Combat Odds: 67.1%
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Grenadier!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (13.20) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (9.60)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Combat Odds: 79.7%
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Grenadier!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Musketman (10.80)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Musketman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Musketman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Musketman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Musketman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi's Musketman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Musketman!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Musketman!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 42%!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Turfan will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 371, 1703 AD: The borders of Bjørgvin have expanded!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in OZ to 0%!
Turn 371, 1703 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Nidaros to 0%!

Turn 372, 1706 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Your Ironclad has destroyed a Frigate!


autolog

Turn 364 (1682 AD)
Karakorum begins: Cannon
Frigate promoted: Combat III
Galleon promoted: Flanking I
Nidaros grows: 11
Ferrous finishes: Drydock
Turfan grows: 10
Turfan finishes: Grenadier
Ning-hsia grows: 6

Turn 365 (1685 AD)
Ferrous begins: Ironclad
Turfan begins: University
Haithabu begins: Market
Grenadier defeats (10.20/12): Spanish Rifleman
Buddhism has spread: Valencia
Captured Valencia (Isabella)
Razed Valencia
Valencia lost
Tech learned: Corporation
Cibola finishes: Rifleman
Florence finishes: Ironclad
Thapsus finishes: Frigate

Turn 366 (1688 AD)
Cibola begins: Bank
Florence begins: Ironclad
Thapsus begins: Ironclad
Frigate loses to: Celtic Frigate (1.28/8)
Frigate defeats (6.48/8): Celtic Frigate
Frigate promoted: Drill I
Frigate promoted: Drill II
Ironclad promoted: Drill I
Ironclad promoted: Drill II
Karakorum finishes: Cannon

Turn 367 (1691 AD)
Karakorum begins: Market
Frigate defeats (2.16/8): Celtic Frigate
Bjørgvin founded
Florence grows: 10
Chehalis grows: 7

Turn 368 (1694 AD)
Frigate promoted: Combat III

Turn 369 (1697 AD)
War ends: Celtic Empire
Spanish Empire ends war
Ferrous finishes: Ironclad
Karakorum grows: 12
Haithabu grows: 9
Thapsus's borders expand

Turn 370 (1700 AD)
Ferrous begins: Ironclad
Ironclad promoted: Drill I
Ironclad promoted: Drill II
Frigate defeats (0.40/8): Carthaginian Frigate
Florence finishes: Ironclad
Karakorum finishes: Market
Frigate loses to: Carthaginian Frigate (3.44/8)

Turn 371 (1703 AD)
Florence begins: Ironclad
Karakorum begins: Cannon
Grenadier defeats (7.44/12): Indian Grenadier
Grenadier defeats (1.80/12): Indian Grenadier
Grenadier defeats (5.88/12): Indian Musketman
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Bjørgvin's borders expand

Turn 372 (1706 AD)
Ironclad defeats (0.48/12): Indian Frigate
Bjørgvin begins: Granary


took screenie of hannibal southern city but didn't leave mouse over city he has 4 riflemen in hippo.

We probably have enough seapower for seabased attack now (with grens) now.
but might be good idea to wait for infantry until we attack on land.

We are royally hooped.
I took Hippo for two turns but lost it to massed cavalry.
We are out of the tech trading loop and waiting will not help us because the AI are trading and we have fallen too far behind to catch up.
Our only hope is to fight and win but we aren't winning.

Sorry, i played only 4 turns 'cause i thought it was hopeless and really didn't see any possible way of winning.
I think we should just resign gracefully at this point (i was wrong earlier aboutplaying this out- it is truly helpless).

Here is the log:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1706 AD to 1718 AD:

Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Gypsy Kings adopts Free Market!
Turn 372, 1706 AD: Isabella has 190 gold available for trade

Turn 373, 1709 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 373, 1709 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Florence to 54%!
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (30.80)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 373, 1709 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Hannibal's Cannon!
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (26.78)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Combat Odds: 1.3%
Turn 373, 1709 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 13 (76/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 373, 1709 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 30 (10/100HP)

Turn 374, 1712 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Thapsus!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Ning-hsia!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 30%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 18%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 6%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon (12.00) vs Hannibal's Rifleman (10.44)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 70.6%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has died trying to attack a Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon (12.00) vs Hannibal's Rifleman (9.50)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 75.7%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (70/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (49/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (28/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (7/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon has defeated Hannibal's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon (12.00) vs Hannibal's Rifleman (8.56)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 88.2%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 22 (60/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 22 (38/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 22 (16/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon has defeated Hannibal's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (17.65) vs Hannibal's Rifleman (12.87)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 87.5%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 18 (79/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 18 (61/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (52/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (31/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (10/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 18 (43/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Hannibal's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Rifleman has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon (13.20) vs Hannibal's Rifleman (8.25)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 91.8%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 19 (26/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 19 (7/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Rifleman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon has defeated Hannibal's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Your Cannon has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: You have captured Hippo!!!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Turfan has grown to size 11
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Chehalis will grow to size 8 on the next turn
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Florence to 48%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Ning-hsia to 24%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Ning-hsia to 20%!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (1.20) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (15.40)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: A Cannon has withdrawn from combat with your Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (15.40)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 23.7%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (13.20)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 32.2%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon has defeated Hannibal's Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Cannon has killed a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (16.50) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (9.93)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 92.6%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (9.76)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 97.4%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (24/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (3/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (16.50) vs Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (8.44)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 24 (40/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 24 (16/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Grenadier was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (8.44)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (39/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (14/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Grenadier was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (8.44)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (39/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (14/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Grenadier was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (13.20)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 67.6%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier (13.20) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (12.00)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon has defeated Hannibal's Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Cannon has killed a Carthaginian Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier (13.20) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (12.00)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (7.20)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 22 (38/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 22 (16/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Grenadier!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (4.30)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 25 (15/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 374, 1712 AD: Hannibal's Grenadier has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 374, 1712 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Grenadier!

Turn 375, 1715 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Hippo!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Hippo!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.00) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 82.4%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Your Ironclad has destroyed a Frigate!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Chehalis has grown to size 8
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Thapsus will grow to size 7 on the next turn
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in OZ to 0%!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Ning-hsia to 16%!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Ning-hsia to 12%!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (1.20) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (16.80)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Hannibal's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Rifleman has killed a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (16.80)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Hannibal's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Rifleman has killed a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (10.90)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 68.3%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (13.20)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 32.2%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (12.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (10.00)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hernan Cortes (Great General) has been born in Hadrumetum (Hannibal)!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon (6.72) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (9.96)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 9.9%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (65/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 21 (35/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 18 (47/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cannon is hit for 21 (14/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: A Cannon has withdrawn from combat with your Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (16.20) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (8.68)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 97.8%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (19/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 18 (72/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (12.60) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (7.56)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 93.1%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (19/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (19.50) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (6.56)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 31 (51/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 31 (20/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (4.79)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 31 (21/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (4.06)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry (18.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Cannon (3.76)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 33 (14/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Gypsy Kings's Cannon is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hannibal's Cavalry has defeated Gypsy Kings's Cannon!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: While defending, your Cannon was destroyed by a Carthaginian Cavalry!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: Hippo (Gypsy Kings) has been captured by the Carthaginian Empire!!!
Turn 375, 1715 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Washington

Turn 376, 1718 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Thapsus!
Turn 376, 1718 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Ning-hsia!
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.00) vs Hannibal's Frigate (10.40)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Combat Odds: 70.8%
Turn 376, 1718 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Hannibal's Frigate is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Your Ironclad has destroyed a Frigate!

Nice Job G!

@Imac, Why did you keep Hippo? I thought it was your idea to raze cities instead of keeping them. I'm confussed.

The Roster order is

da_Vinci - can't play until Sat (on deck)
Jon Shaw - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - in the hole
g_storrow - waiting
Immaculate -just played

Conquistador 63 - in reserve until further notice

I had scouted a bit and thought it safer then it was. I didn't realize he had so much cavalry- we had quite a bit of rifles and i thought it would be enough. Bad decision; sorry.

No one in isolation, but the combination of various events and decisions. Perhaps the largest issue is the difficulty with us all being on the same page on various issues ... a function of the unusual game goal.


I could name a few, but one which had a huge impact was not being able to navigate past Khan's borders in the SW tip and reach the rest of the civs, to leverage tech trading.

Also, now I realize we should have focused on killing Khan much earlier, enabling us to "give away" our lands to Gandhi as he tried to get them, instead of trying to develop our own land. In fact, I won't be surprised if the most successful teams will have built zero settlers in the whole game. Notice that I consider myself guilty for not proposing/following those actions - this is not an accusation pointed at someone else.
Better communication between team members could have helped, too. I think there were too many situations when we didn't have a defined plan, but sometimes we had it but the players didn't stick to it properly.

p.s.1 sorry for being away lately, I didn't want to risk influencing negatively the team's morale. ;)
p.s.2 you might want to check the first spoiler thread, which is now open.
p.s.3 @dV. relax, Murky is not finished yet :)
p.s.4 does anyone intend to continue with the team in the next vanilla SGOTM?

I am done with CIV for awhile- i've been playing ROME: total war. I still have a multi-player with my buddy who lives in Canada for my civilization fix.

Immac.
PS: again, sorry about the failed invasion and wasted troops.

p.s.4 does anyone intend to continue with the team in the next vanilla SGOTM?I plan on playing! Hope you will be there!

I could name a few, but one which had a huge impact was not being able to navigate past Khan's borders in the SW tip and reach the rest of the civs, to leverage tech trading.

Also, now I realize we should have focused on killing Khan much earlier, enabling us to "give away" our lands to Gandhi as he tried to get them, instead of trying to develop our own land. In fact, I won't be surprised if the most successful teams will have built zero settlers in the whole game. Notice that I consider myself guilty for not proposing/following those actions - this is not an accusation pointed at someone else.
Better communication between team members could have helped, too. I think there were too many situations when we didn't have a defined plan, but sometimes we had it but the players didn't stick to it properly.

p.s.1 sorry for being away lately, I didn't want to risk influencing negatively the team's morale. ;)
p.s.2 you might want to check the first spoiler thread, which is now open.
p.s.3 @dV. relax, Murky is not finished yet :)
p.s.4 does anyone intend to continue with the team in the next vanilla SGOTM? I am up for the next Vanilla SGOTM. Might even get Scout214 to join us (he does not have Warlords).

Not unrelaxed about Murky, it's not like we are in contention at this point.

C63, you are always welcome! ;)

I can't play until Sunday ... If you guys can get two turnsets in before then, go for it!

dV

Ok, as that old saying, "better late then never", so here goes a link (http://picasaweb.google.com.br/franciscogarri/Civ4WorldTour) to a few pictures from my "Civ4 World Tour 2007". Enjoy! :)

From looking at the save:

1. It is good we're at war "only" with Hannibal again (gandhi doesn't count)
2. To win the game gandhi has to beat the other sides, so I dont think we need to get overly worried about our power. Worst case scenario we can always let gandhi take all of our mainland and sit on thapsus. If we cover the island(s) with troops, then the AI won't be able to kill us off, it's too bad at sea based attacks, and the attacking from sea penalty will make up for inferior troops if we are behind in tech. Can we "vassalate" ouselves to protect a one city empire?
3. War weariness is reasonably under control now we've only got "one" war
4. The loss of so many CR3 amphib grens is quite a blow. We have one such rifleman and gren left, and we can promote new level 3 and above troops to have amphib. I think we can follow the sea based bombardment of the "loose" army plan still, if people agree.
5. 19 turns until Assembly line, then we can have CR3 infantry x 2.
6. Researching stuff the AI doesn't prioritise is the way to get back into the tech trading. For instance, no one yet had Assembly line. I doubt we'll get it first, but its an example. Medicine is also commonly ignored by the AI, but they'll still trade for it.

So: my plan is to try to kill off hanibal's loose troops by attacking from the sea with amphibious troops. It'll be slow work until we have more of a body of troops available to do it.

I'm open to other suggestions though, such as retreating to thapsus and letting gandhi expand out to be the biggest side (I guess he needs a while to expand so he can build infrastructure to allow reasonly fast construciton of spaceship components)

I like the retreat to Thaspus idea. Maybe it is time to start giving the northern cities to Gandhi?

I like the retreat to Thaspus idea. Maybe it is time to start giving the northern cities to Gandhi? Options going forward:

1. Conquer and hold. We plan to take and hold some of Hannibal's juicy cities. This will require razing the smaller ones to limit his war machine, attriting his troops in the field, maybe pillaging mines and other hammer sites, and then taking the one or two prizes we really want. The we can either migrate to them, or maybe G will come to take them (and we can hold our core and give G the new war spoils). So there are two different gift to G approaches in Conquer and hold. It has to start with scorched earth, and I think Jon's amphibious raid tactic fits that well :goodjob: Hit from the sea, retreat to the sea, repeat as needed.

2. Pure scorched earth. Raze everything we take. Pillage every improvement. Maybe G will settle the empty space? All we have to do is be a millstone to all the other civs, so G can win.

3 Cocoon in Thapsus. This is dangerous! I don't think it will survive the advent of Bombers. I have recently had the experience of watching waves of enemy overwhem my dug in troops in a city despite all of their defensive advantages ... cannon from the sea still cause collat damage, and overwhelming numbers still win.

So ... we need a core of cities for research and troop production to survive. I think that Mongolia is now that core, so we could start to give G OZ, Ferrous, Cibola (maybe after we get to sci meth, as GL works until then), and even eventually Nidaros (but plan right to get the palace to hop to Thapsus?)

I think we should prepare to pillage Hannibal, raze his minor cities, and then we can decide whether to keep or raze his big ones. I'd go for the amphib promotions, as the sea strikes could be a key to slowing Brennus down while G goes for the win.

If G razes our cities that he takes (he might to avoid motherland yearning unhappiness), then we might give him fewer and just clear more land for him to settle with new cities of his own. Less MY unhappiness might be a reason to give G the new conquests rather than our established cities.

Be sure to use the power chart as an intelligence resource to see who is massing troops for some offensive action.

Any point to brief peace with H until we are ready to pounce again? How might we manipulate religion to optimize our diplo relations?

dV

I like the scorched earth option, but that requires staying on land. In the short run we may need to go for a cease fire in order to rebuild our forces. Attacking from the sea razing cities seems to be the only viable option at this point, the only issue being we are out of troops.

I like the scorched earth option, but that requires staying on land. In the short run we may need to go for a cease fire in order to rebuild our forces. Attacking from the sea razing cities seems to be the only viable option at this point, the only issue being we are out of troops. I think we hit and run raze the coastal cities, then pillage what we can with dispersed troops on defensive terrain, then either hold or raze the large cites (time will tell which way to go).

dV

I tink scoched earth is the best option.

I think we dont wantpeace for too long before we get infantry though for him to build up troops.

I think scorched earth is the best option.

I think we dont want peace for too long before we get infantry though for him to build up troops. I am begining to wonder if the AI builds troops fastest while at war, so maybe an interval of peace will lull the AI into less troop production? Might be that peace-war cycles, with a huge numeric superiority at the start of each new war cycle, is the way to go? Anyone else have a thought on this idea that AI might slow troop production during peace?

I am back and can play, unless Jon is about to ... Hello Jon?

dV

The Roster order is

da_Vinci - UP NOW
Jon Shaw - on deck
Ronnie1 - in the hole
g_storrow - waiting

Immaculate -in reserve until further notice
Conquistador 63 - in reserve until further notice

This is how we are going forward unless someone has any better ideas or complaints.

@dV, Give it your best shot, rebuild troops and scout our options. We need to keep this moving or we will not finish.

@dV, Give it your best shot, rebuild troops and scout our options. We need to keep this moving or we will not finish. OK, I am playing now.

dV

Oops, its been longer than I thought since I posted. Let's see what comes up from DV's go.

I think we're kind of agreed on a scorched earth amphibious attack strategy, possibly keeping choice cities.

I doubt there'll be much excitig stuff in the next few goes though, just a case of dealing with bits n bobs that come up and building an army up again to start the attack plans.

There is an air of gloom in Palace in Tarantella, the capital of Gypsalia. The struggle has been difficult. Hannibal has repelled two attacks on his west coast before Prince da Vinci starts the current operation. Now, the first machine gun has appeared in Hadrumentum. It will be 19 turns until infantry are available at current science rate.

Prince da Vinci pauses, then nods slowly ... "desparate times require desparate measures" he thinks. He removes a gilded box, unfixes the latch, and opens the lid. He reaches in, and removes the secret weapon ... the da Vinci whip! :D

Summary: With MG in Carthage, did not attempt any land operations there. Decided to focus on getting research up ... got to 70% with +cash most of the turnset. Whip a lot of the infrastructure that was in production (banks and universities) early, then whipped some culture buildings and other stuff as WW became an issue as had to repel some weak incursions by G. Getting 19 GPT from Brennus now. Sank G's fleet near Thapsus so I could work the seafood.

Was able to cut ALine to 14 turns so played until I got that. We can make infantry now. I have massed our six or so amphib units in Ning-Hsia (one is in Thapsus). Frigates and Clads are converging on Thapsus, and some are already shelling Hannibal's cites and pillaging his seafood. H has few troops in New York, Leptis and Hippo. More on that later.

Wash and Mehmed have ALine.

A new GGen became a mil acad in Karakorum for fast troop builds. We still have an unused GSci there, could part bulb Sci meth, or could hold if better for physics. If Sci meth obsoletes GLib, then wait and bulb physics, I think. Also, might finish a few Conf monasteries before we get Sci meth.

I have added city purpose to the name of several cities (helped me keep straight on what they focus on), which of course can be changed. Two are making Bud missionaires, as conversion is worth 1 happy face, and adding Bud to a Jewish city also got rid of the unhappy face from war with same faith (G is Jewish)

Where to go from here? We could use the amphibs to attack Hippo for the plunder, leave one minimally promoted unit in it, let him take it back (it is the Conf holy city, so we might want it eventually. At the same time, move troops to New York, and either raze that or take and retreat ... maybe giving the cities back will spread his troops too thin? Downside is that losing cites adds WW big time. But if we can attack on multiple fronts, H may not know where to go with his SOD. Target Hippo, NY and Leptis?

Izzy won't trade for ALine ... is that a vasal thing? Brennus won't due to annoyed, but if we revolt to no religion, maybe he will, and then maybe Izzy will too? Anyone know for sure? If no religion is our best diplo move, do we want liberalism for Free Religion?

So ... questions are:

Research: Sci M, Phys, Artil? Or Liberal first?

GS does what?

Revolt to no religion to trade ALine to Brennus? And maybe then Izzy?

Raze Hippo or keep it alive?

If we can pounce on H before he builds ships, we may have a chance.

I would keep Tiflis, Haithabu and Florence as our second line of defense after we gift northern cities to G eventually. G put a few troops near Tiflis, but I decided to hold it for the future defense line and killed them when he went pillaging with them.

Upload log:

Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.00) vs Hannibal's Frigate (10.40)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Combat Odds: 70.8%
Turn 376, 1718 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!

Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip clad in Ning-hsia
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip clad in Thapsus
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip Bank in Cibola
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip University in OZ
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip University in Tufan
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Whip T Post in Birka

Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gandhi's Frigate (8.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (1.32)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 376, 1718 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 376, 1718 AD: Gandhi's Frigate has defeated Gypsy Kings's Ironclad!

Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Combat Odds: 95.9%
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Combat Odds: 95.9%
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Rifleman (8.48)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!

Turn 377, 1721 AD: Whip Market in Haithabu
Turn 377, 1721 AD: You have constructed a Market in Haithabu. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 377, 1721 AD: Isabella adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Emancipation!

Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.00) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Combat Odds: 82.4%
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.24) vs Gandhi's Frigate (8.80)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Combat Odds: 80.2%
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (9.60)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 378, 1724 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!

Turn 378, 1724 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Chehalis Sci. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.

Turn 379, 1727 AD: Whip Grocer in Karakorum
Turn 379, 1727 AD: Sheep and spice to Brennus for rice and 19 GPT
Turn 379, 1727 AD: Wine to Mehmed for 3 GPT

Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Rifleman (9.03)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!

Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Rifleman (9.03)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!

Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (9.60)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier has defeated Gypsy Kings's Grenadier!

Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (18.20) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (0.48)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!

Turn 380, 1730 AD: Wash has ALine now
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Brennus adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Universal Suffrage!
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Brennus adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Emancipation!
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Harkuf (Great Merchant) has been born in Bibracte (Brennus)!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Hannibal has machine guns
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Whip harbor in Nidaros
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Whip Colossuem in OZ
Turn 381, 1732 AD: You have constructed a Colosseum in OZ Science. Work has now begun on a Theatre.

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Rifleman (16.80) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (35.70)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 0.7%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant (9.60) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (31.05)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's War Elephant!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Maceman (9.60) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (24.47)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 0.7%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Maceman!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (21.81)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 9.7%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Longbowman (6.00) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (14.81)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 3.5%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Longbowman!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant (9.60) vs Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (9.28)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 82.4%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 13 (13/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman is hit for 13 (0/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's War Elephant has defeated Gypsy Kings's Rifleman!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Emancipation!

Turn 382, 1734 AD: The borders of Karakorum SciAc have expanded!
Turn 382, 1734 AD: Kalidas (Great Artist) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (10.40) vs Hannibal's Frigate (10.40)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (15.60) vs Hannibal's Frigate (10.40)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (18.20) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 75.7%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (16.80) vs Gandhi's War Elephant (7.14)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's War Elephant!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (16.80) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (10.43)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 95.7%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (18.20) vs Gandhi's Rifleman (13.33)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 79.5%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman (18.20) vs Gandhi's Axeman (5.50)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gypsy Kings's Rifleman has defeated Gandhi's Axeman!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Whip Colosseum in Florence
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Whip Bud Monastery in Samarqand
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Whip workboat in Birka
Turn 383, 1736 AD: You have constructed a Buddhist Monastery in Samarqand BudMs. Work has now begun on a Ironclad.
Turn 383, 1736 AD: The borders of Birka have expanded!
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Hannibal adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Emancipation!
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Isoroku Yamamoto (Great General) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!

Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate (10.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Combat Odds: 67.1%
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gypsy Kings's Frigate has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 384, 1738 AD: Whip clad in Samarqand
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Narak (Great Prophet) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 385, 1740 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (12.00) vs Hannibal's Frigate (10.40)
Turn 385, 1740 AD: Combat Odds: 78.8%
Turn 385, 1740 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 385, 1740 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 385, 1740 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Hannibal's Frigate!

Turn 385, 1740 AD: Leonidas (Great General) has been born in Karakorum SciAc (Gypsy Kings)!
Turn 385, 1740 AD: Got GG put military academy in Karakorum
Turn 385, 1740 AD: The borders of Tiflis have expanded!

Turn 386, 1742 AD: <COLOR=102,229,255,255Buddhism has spread in Chehalis Sci.
Turn 386, 1742 AD: Florence Navy celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 386, 1742 AD: <COLOR=153,0,255,153Haithabu's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 387, 1744 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: <COLOR=102,229,255,255Buddhism has spread in Karakorum SciAc.
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Whip Colosseum in Chehalis
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Carthage to 95%!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Whipped library in Birka
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Whip clad in Ning-hsia
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Whip clad in Thapsus
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Florence Navy celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: The borders of Haithabu have expanded!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Ning-hsia will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in OZ Science to 0%!

Turn 388, 1746 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Your Ironclad has reduced the defenses of Carthage to 75%!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Carthage to 70%!

Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gandhi's Frigate has defeated Gypsy Kings's Ironclad!

Turn 388, 1746 AD: Your Ironclad has died trying to attack a Frigate!

Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad (14.40) vs Gandhi's Frigate (2.68)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gypsy Kings's Ironclad has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!

Turn 388, 1746 AD: Your Ironclad has destroyed a Frigate!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Your Ironclad has reduced the defenses of Hippo to 24%!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Whip Granary in Tiflis
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Whip workboat in Thapsus
Turn 388, 1746 AD: <COLOR=255,239,20,255Hannibal has 270 gold available for trade
Turn 388, 1746 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Turfan Sci Mis will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 388, 1746 AD: <COLOR=255,76,76,255Turfan Sci Mis will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 388, 1746 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Birka has grown to size 4
Turn 388, 1746 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Ning-hsia has grown to size 5
Turn 388, 1746 AD: A Forest has grown near Ferrous Navy!

Turn 389, 1748 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Bjørgvin.
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Your Ironclad has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 3%!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: You have discovered Assembly Line!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Cibola Science will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255OZ Science will grow to size 9 on the next turn
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Turfan Sci Mis has grown to size 10
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=255,76,76,255Turfan Sci Mis has become unhappy
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Haithabu has grown to size 6
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=252,147,40,255Birka will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 389, 1748 AD: <COLOR=102,229,255,255Hinduism has spread in Bjørgvin.
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in OZ Science to 0%!

Turn 390, 1750 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 390, 1750 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ Science!
Turn 390, 1750 AD: Your Ironclad has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 0%!
Turn 390, 1750 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Chehalis Sci Ms.


dV

Auto log


Turn 377 (1721 AD)
Cibola Science begins: Colosseum
OZ Science begins: Theatre
Ferrous begins: Ironclad
Samarqand Navy begins: Ironclad
Turfan Science begins: Buddhist Monastery
Birka begins: Work Boat
Ning-hsia begins: Work Boat
Thapsus begins: Ironclad
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Ironclad defeats (8.40/12): Indian Frigate
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Ironclad defeats (10.20/12): Indian Frigate
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Rifleman promoted: Pinch
Rifleman promoted: Combat II
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Grenadier defeats (6.60/12): Indian Rifleman
User comment: Whip Market in Haithabu
Nidaros Army grows: 12
Nidaros Army finishes: Bank
Cibola Science grows: 8
Florence Navy finishes: Ironclad
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Grenadier
Tiflis finishes: Courthouse
Haithabu finishes: Market
Birka grows: 5
Ning-hsia grows: 5

Turn 378 (1724 AD)
Nidaros Army begins: Theatre
Florence Navy begins: Theatre
Karakorum SciAc begins: Grocer
Tiflis begins: Granary
Ironclad defeats (3.84/12): Indian Frigate
Ironclad defeats (2.52/12): Indian Frigate
Grenadier defeats (10.08/12): Indian Grenadier
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Grenadier promoted: Combat II
Rifleman promoted: Formation
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Cannon promoted: Barrage I
Cannon promoted: Barrage II
Rifleman promoted: Pinch
Rifleman promoted: Combat II
Turfan Science grows: 9
Chehalis Sci finishes: Work Boat
Haithabu grows: 6
Ning-hsia finishes: Work Boat

Turn 379 (1727 AD)
Ning-hsia begins: Work Boat
Ironclad promoted: Combat III
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
User comment: Whip Grocer in Karakorum
User comment: Sheep and spice to Brennus for rice and 19 GPT
User comment: Wine to Mehmed for 3 GPT
Nidaros Army finishes: Theatre
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Grocer
Thapsus finishes: Ironclad

Turn 380 (1730 AD)
Nidaros Army begins: Harbor
Karakorum SciAc begins: Jail
Thapsus begins: Work Boat
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Grenadier defeats (4.80/12): Indian Rifleman
Grenadier defeats (8.40/12): Indian Rifleman
Grenadier loses to: Indian Grenadier (0.48/12)
Rifleman defeats (14.00/14): Indian Grenadier
User comment: Wash has ALine now
Ferrous Navy grows: 10

Turn 381 (1732 AD)
User comment: Hannibal has machine guns
User comment: Whip harbor in Nidaros
OZ Science begins: Colosseum
User comment: Whip Colossuem in OZ
Samarqand Navy begins: Buddhist Monastery
Nidaros Army finishes: Harbor
Florence Navy finishes: Theatre
OZ Science finishes: Colosseum
Ferrous Navy finishes: Ironclad
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Jail
Birka finishes: Work Boat
Thapsus finishes: Work Boat
Rifleman defeats (12.18/14): Indian Rifleman
Rifleman defeats (10.64/14): Indian War Elephant
Rifleman defeats (10.64/14): Indian Maceman
Rifleman defeats (6.44/14): Indian Grenadier
Rifleman defeats (3.64/14): Indian Longbowman
Rifleman loses to: Indian War Elephant (5.60/8)

Turn 382 (1734 AD)
Nidaros Army begins: Rifleman
Florence Navy begins: Colosseum
Ferrous Navy begins: Ironclad
Karakorum SciAc begins: Cannon
Birka begins: Work Boat
Thapsus begins: Barracks
Rifleman promoted: Pinch
Rifleman promoted: Combat II
Rifleman promoted: Combat III
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
OZ Science grows: 7
OZ Science finishes: Theatre
Turfan Science finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Karakorum SciAc grows: 11
Karakorum SciAc's borders expand
Work Boat loses to: Carthaginian Frigate (8.00/8)

Turn 383 (1736 AD)
OZ Science begins: Harbor
Turfan Science begins: Buddhist Missionary
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Grenadier promoted: Combat II
Grenadier promoted: Formation
Frigate defeats (1.60/8): Carthaginian Frigate
Ironclad defeats (0.48/12): Carthaginian Frigate
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Grenadier promoted: Combat II
Rifleman defeats (6.86/14): Indian Grenadier
Grenadier promoted: Pinch
Grenadier promoted: Combat II
Nidaros Army begins: Jail
Rifleman defeats (14.00/14): Indian War Elephant
Rifleman defeats (3.50/14): Indian Grenadier
Rifleman defeats (6.86/14): Indian Rifleman
Rifleman defeats (12.46/14): Indian Axeman
User comment: Whip Colosseum in Florence
User comment: Whip Bud Monastery in Samarqand
User comment: Whip workboat in Birka
Cibola Science grows: 9
Florence Navy finishes: Colosseum
Samarqand BudMs grows: 6
Samarqand BudMs finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Chehalis Sci grows: 9
Haithabu grows: 7
Birka grows: 5
Birka's borders expand
Birka finishes: Work Boat
Ning-hsia grows: 6

Turn 384 (1738 AD)
Florence Navy begins: Grenadier
Florence Navy begins: Ironclad
Birka begins: Library
Frigate defeats (6.48/8): Indian Frigate
Frigate promoted: Combat IV
User comment: Whip clad in Samarqand
Nidaros Army finishes: Rifleman
Samarqand BudMs finishes: Ironclad
Chehalis Sci finishes: Rifleman
Ning-hsia finishes: Work Boat

Turn 385 (1740 AD)
Nidaros Army begins: Cannon
Samarqand BudMs begins: Buddhist Missionary
Chehalis Sci begins: Theatre
Chehalis Sci begins: Colosseum
Ning-hsia begins: Ironclad
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Leonidas (Great General) born in Karakorum SciAc
Ironclad defeats (5.52/12): Carthaginian Frigate
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Military Academy
User comment: Got GG put military academy in Karakorum
Samarqand BudMs finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Tiflis's borders expand

Turn 386 (1742 AD)
Samarqand BudMs begins: Buddhist Missionary
Buddhism has spread: Chehalis Sci
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
OZ Science grows: 8
Samarqand BudMs grows: 5
Turfan Sci Mis finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Cannon
Birka grows: 6
Thapsus finishes: Barracks

Turn 387 (1744 AD)
Turfan Sci Mis begins: Buddhist Missionary
Karakorum SciAc begins: Rifleman
Thapsus begins: Ironclad
Buddhism has spread: Karakorum SciAc
User comment: Whip Colusseum in Chehalis
Samarqand BudMs begins: Ironclad
Samarqand BudMs begins: Buddhist Missionary
User comment: Whipped library in Birka
User comment: Whip clad in Ning-hsia
User comment: Whip clad in Thapsus
Nidaros Army finishes: Cannon
Cibola Science finishes: Colosseum
Ferrous Navy finishes: Ironclad
Chehalis Sci Ms grows: 7
Chehalis Sci Ms finishes: Colosseum
Haithabu's borders expand
Birka finishes: Library
Ning-hsia finishes: Ironclad
Thapsus grows: 4
Thapsus finishes: Ironclad

Turn 388 (1746 AD)
Nidaros Army begins: Rifleman
Cibola Science begins: Confucian Monastery
Ferrous Navy begins: Ironclad
Chehalis Sci Ms begins: Buddhist Monastery
Birka begins: Courthouse
Ning-hsia begins: Barracks
Thapsus begins: Work Boat
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Ironclad loses to: Indian Frigate (2.24/8)
Ironclad defeats (12.00/12): Indian Frigate
Nidaros Army begins: Cannon
User comment: Whip Granary in Tiflis
User comment: Whip workboat in Thapsus
Florence Navy finishes: Ironclad
Samarqand Navy finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Tiflis finishes: Granary
Birka grows: 4
Ning-hsia grows: 5
Thapsus finishes: Work Boat

Turn 389 (1748 AD)
Florence Navy begins: Ironclad
Samarqand Navy begins: Ironclad
Tiflis begins: Barracks
Thapsus begins: Ironclad
Ironclad promoted: Combat I
Ironclad promoted: Combat II
Tech learned: Assembly Line
Turfan Sci Mis grows: 10
Karakorum SciAc finishes: Infantry
Haithabu grows: 6
Ning-hsia finishes: Barracks
Bjørgvin finishes: Granary
Hinduism has spread: Bjørgvin

Turn 390 (1750 AD)
Research begun: Scientific Method
Research begun: Physics
Research begun: Artillery
Karakorum SciAc begins: Infantry
Ning-hsia begins: Ironclad
Bjørgvin begins: Forge dV

Addendum: What do we think about filling in our landmass with new cities? WW may limit city size in the long run, so maybe the answer is more smaller cities? Especially as we start to give some to G? Or is the maint not worth it?

Addendum 2: After one more university we could make Oxford, but where? Karak can build it fast, but maybe Tiflis so we can pair it with Globe Theatre for huge city size?

Nice Job dV!!

The Roster order is

da_Vinci - just played
Jon Shaw - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - on deck
g_storrow - in the hole

Immaculate -in reserve until further notice
Conquistador 63 - in reserve until further notice

I'll have a look at the save later today and post some thoughts.

I would vote for not capturing cities. I think we should focus on getting H to populate the coastal cities we attack with his mobile troops by leaving them with one defender and letting him replenish the city with troops between turns. With troops not fortified and also not necessarily city defenders (e.g. cavalry) we should have some fairly easy battles.

Once we are happy his mobile troops are gone, then we can capture and raze cities for the loot. Once we're happy he's crippled, then we can capture any that we want to keep permanently. I'd say hippo is worth keeping, must be worth a fair amount of cash, and gives us a base on the continent to work off.

Since we're out of the frame for winning the SGOTM, I think we should probably aim to keep G in his place until we're finished with the rest of the world. Letting him expand earlier is risky and since I think we should be focussed on just winning (getting G into space) rather than winning as early as possible.

I think DV's done well trying to get our economy back on track. To further this, I reckon we should sort our civics out. I think we need to get emancipation because of our unhappiness situation and free religion so we can be fairly chummy with all civs, get a big boost on happy faces and gain 10% science.

I think that probably we shouldn't fill in our continent's gaps with cities, I think it'll be too much for our economy. If we adopt the civis above then hopefull each city can be bigger and able to farm more land.

I doubt the will be much to do in the next turnset, as we're still consolidating. I would want to revolt to no religion, then trade Aline for democracy and free religion plus anything else I can get (unlikely to be much though)m and generally carry on preparing for the next assault with H. If no one disagrees, I could play tomorrow (I can play tonight, but doesn't leave much time for people to review my plan).

I would vote for not capturing cities. I think we should focus on getting H to populate the coastal cities we attack with his mobile troops by leaving them with one defender and letting him replenish the city with troops between turns. With troops not fortified and also not necessarily city defenders (e.g. cavalry) we should have some fairly easy battles. I agree that we might want to do that with some cities, but we might want to raze a big one or two (New York comes to mind) to reduce his income and research rate ... want to keep infantry away from Hannibal as long as possible.

Particularly if we are attacking amphib from the sea, the 50% amphib penalty may make life tough. Maybe we raze NY, then do the one defender cycling that you suggest in Hippo and Leptis?

Once we are happy his mobile troops are gone, then we can capture and raze cities for the loot. Once we're happy he's crippled, then we can capture any that we want to keep permanently. I'd say hippo is worth keeping, must be worth a fair amount of cash, and gives us a base on the continent to work off. Take a look at which of his cities might have wonders that we want to keep, and make a list of expendable Carthaginian cities.

Since we're out of the frame for winning the SGOTM, I think we should probably aim to keep G in his place until we're finished with the rest of the world. Letting him expand earlier is risky and since I think we should be focussed on just winning (getting G into space) rather than winning as early as possible. Good point ... I would still like to let him expand as soon as we think it is safe to do so.

I think DV's done well trying to get our economy back on track. To further this, I reckon we should sort our civics out. I think we need to get emancipation because of our unhappiness situation and free religion so we can be fairly chummy with all civs, get a big boost on happy faces and gain 10% science. I was mainly trying to get to Aline while there would be someone to trade it to. We were pretty well into a few banks and universities when I picked it up. Markets and grocers were as much for happiness and health bonuses as the money. Of course, not being afraid to whip helped (R1 knows how I can get whipped into a whipping frenzy :D )!

Do we want bureacracy as well for the science and hammer boost?

I think that probably we shouldn't fill in our continent's gaps with cities, I think it'll be too much for our economy. If we adopt the civis above then hopefull each city can be bigger and able to farm more land. You may be right ... the distance penalty should not be much, but the number of city penalty might be high ... but then that goes down as we gift more cities to G. If a city has useful tiles, might be worth building. The one south of either Karak or Turfan comes to mind.

I still am not sure how much pain motherland yearning unhappiness in cites we gift to G will be for him. Might be an argument to gift them later, or to whip them to low pop before gifting. Unless G will whip them down himself.

If we do go for emancipation, that will be the end of whipping, so we may need to plan for this.

I doubt the will be much to do in the next turnset, as we're still consolidating. I would want to revolt to no religion, then trade Aline for democracy and free religion plus anything else I can get (unlikely to be much though)m and generally carry on preparing for the next assault with H. If no one disagrees, I could play tomorrow (I can play tonight, but doesn't leave much time for people to review my plan). I think a fast attack and raze of NY (bombard from the sea, sail up the amphib infantry and kill the three rifles and raze it) is a good sudden strike for this turnset. Should put a crimp in his cash and science, and one less place to make troops. Then try the one defender cycles in Hippo and/or Leptis. Keep blockading his seafood.

I think we want to build Oxford your turnset ... might even want to whip it. Pairing it with Globe allows its city to be big. I think we have both FP and Iworks in Karak, so no option to put Oxford there after all.

I think I am in genral agreement with your plan, with the suggestions above. We'll see what everyone else thinks.

dV

I like razing NY and then the 1 defender ploy in the other cities. I only like keeping Carthage and the Holy city. I would try to place Oxford where we have the most science already of course, unless we plan on giving up that city very soon. Other than that, I think we just need to keep teching for military to try and slow the others down.
@dV, I think the amphibious penalty is only 25%.

I agree with keeping v good cites razign the rest. Are we teching to artillery?
unsure abotu trading aline until we take care of H.

OK, I'll play now. I think we're fairly agreed on what's next, I've taken on board what people've said:

-I'll tech for artillery (this was the plan earlier, and I think its sensible to stick to it)
-I'll try to capture and raze NY
-I'll build OUni wherever science is best
-I'm not convinced by beaurocracy when our empire is this size: its better for smaller empires I think. The slavery/whipping point is good though. I'll leave the civis alone for this turnset while we debate what's best

I like razing NY and then the 1 defender ploy in the other cities. I only like keeping Carthage and the Holy city. I would try to place Oxford where we have the most science already of course, unless we plan on giving up that city very soon. Put Oxford where we have the most base science or the most future base science, as I think it just adds a percentage to the base. So don't be fooled by the net science after current modifiers. Turfan was a good candidate, IIRC ... we should be keeping it late into the game (unlike Cibola, OZ and Nidaros perhaps) and I think is had good commerce (might cottage over some farms, but don't break the irrigation chain to the former Izzy gold city)

Other than that, I think we just need to keep teching for military to try and slow the others down. No Liberalism for Free Religion? Might need to get to emancipation soon too.

@dV, I think the amphibious penalty is only 25%. Look at my post 540, turn 381 in the upload log. Looks like the river penalty is 25%, but the sea assault penalty is 50%.

dV

OK, I'll play now. I think we're fairly agreed on what's next, I've taken on board what people've said:

-I'll tech for artillery (this was the plan earlier, and I think its sensible to stick to it)
-I'll try to capture and raze NY
-I'll build OUni wherever science is best
-I'm not convinced by beaurocracy when our empire is this size: its better for smaller empires I think. The slavery/whipping point is good though. I'll leave the civis alone for this turnset while we debate what's best Given that at least two civs already have ALine, I might say see what we can get get from Brennus and Izzy for it, before they trade for it with others. That would mean revolt to no religion. But not trading it is OK with me too ... not clear to me which approach is best.

Good point, that the marginal impact of bureacracy may be small for empire of our size.

I would try to make monastaries for Judaism, Conf, and Hindu (we have at least two for Bud already) before we get Sci Meth and loose the chance. Then we keep our religions options open.

dV

OK, a farly positive turnset. Captured and razed 2 of Hs cities. I am sat outside his capital at the mo, picking off troops when I have good odds (95%+), but its slow.

I was going for florence to build the Ouni, as it has (had?) the best base commerce.

I revolted to no religion and still couldn't swap any tech. However, breenus would declare on both the americans and H- so I went for that. this should help our war effort.

Nice work Jon!

The Roster order is

da_Vinci - in the hole
Jon Shaw - just played
Ronnie1 - UP NOW
g_storrow - on deck

Immaculate -in reserve until further notice
Conquistador 63 - in reserve until further notice

I'll post some plans a little later.

OK, a farly positive turnset. Captured and razed 2 of Hs cities. I am sat outside his capital at the mo, picking off troops when I have good odds (95%+), but its slow. Which two ... NY and Leptis? (not at the game now). If we spread out our troops to cover all his fat crosses, his economy will be crippled.


I was going for florence to build the Ouni, as it has (had?) the best base commerce. I thihk that should work out ... we will be holding it for a while I suspect.

I revolted to no religion and still couldn't swap any tech. However, breenus would declare on both the americans and H- so I went for that. this should help our war effort. Seems that no religion works well for us, so maybe getting Liberalism for Free Religion makes sense as a tech detour ... the 10% Sci bonus can't hurt!

Doesn't FreeRel give happiness for each Religion in a city? If so, did we make those monasteries before sci meth?

Sounds like good progress! :goodjob:

dV

Power failure killed my post. Hope I can remember where I was going.

I think we should consider giving up Ferrous, Cibola and Oz soon. We can make a defensive line from Nidaros through the jungle towards Tifilis, maybe even build a city on the hill S of the oil. It will hurt our science in the short run, but should give G a nice boost. It won't hurt our troop production at all.

I think we should pop rush Factories everywhere ASAP!

There are no turns invested in OxU yet, I think Turfan might be a better long term solution unless we plan on holding Florence for an extended period of time, which we may.

Do we have any idea how many floating troops Hannibal has left? He is still pretty strong by the power graph. He already has Artillery which will increase his graph number even if he is low on troop numbers.

Was Fascism a place holder or is there a reason we want it now?

Those are my initial thoughts.

I think we should consider giving up Ferrous, Cibola and Oz soon. We can make a defensive line from Nidaros through the jungle towards Tifilis, maybe even build a city on the hill S of the oil. It will hurt our science in the short run, but should give G a nice boost. It won't hurt our troop production at all. Maybe wait until after we get artillery? Do we pop rush them to small size before the gift? Will they culture flip back to us if we don't do it right?

I think we should pop rush Factories everywhere ASAP! I might build them gradually so we can keep a stream of infantry heading for Hannibal.

There are no turns invested in OxU yet, I think Turfan might be a better long term solution unless we plan on holding Florence for an extended period of time, which we may. I like Turfan ... it can build it in 17 turns if we use some of Kerak's tiles (second horse). Turfan's base commerce is based on suburbs, while Florences is based on trade routes (which might go away with wars, etc.) And Florence is a navy center, so let's keep it focused on that.

Do we have any idea how many floating troops Hannibal has left? He is still pretty strong by the power graph. He already has Artillery which will increase his graph number even if he is low on troop numbers. No idea. Can find out with single infantry sorties into defensive terrain (see below)

Was Fascism a place holder or is there a reason we want it now? I can't see one at the moment. Need physics (15) and Art (16) next, at the 60% science we will be forced to run. Gsci can cut about a third off of physics. Maybe take Hippo for the plunder, even if we let H take it back? Spread out infantry on hills and forests and sack non-suburb infrastructure for the cash? If he wants to trade troops one for one, do we win that attrition war? The pillage crushes his war machine.

dV

All good points by dV! I'd like a little feedback from the rest of the crew, and would love some words of wisdom from C63.

Ok, not sure if there is any real wisdom in them, but here go a few words... :lol:

Which is the current long term strategy? I understand we want to kill/cripple the other civs to give Gandhi more breathing space. As I haven't opened the last saves, I wonder if the power/tech gap between us and the best AI is widening or narrowing. If it is indeed widening we might want to attack that civ (Brennus?) ASAP, or we could face the risk of being unable to do it later.

Do we still rely heavily on our northern cities for troop production? If not, maybe lower the guard there and start handing them out to Gandhi. Ideally, we would want to produce troops in Hannibal/Khan's lands instead.

Ok, not sure if there is any real wisdom in them, but here go a few words... :lol: Always glad to have your input! :goodjob:

Which is the current long term strategy? I understand we want to kill/cripple the other civs to give Gandhi more breathing space. As I haven't opened the last saves, I wonder if the power/tech gap between us and the best AI is widening or narrowing. If it is indeed widening we might want to attack that civ (Brennus?) ASAP, or we could face the risk of being unable to do it later. I think we should finish off Hannibal if we can, try to build in his lands to replace what we give up to G. Can't see success in attacking Brennus before we get artillery, as we may not be able to defend against him without it. Artillery with the mobility of railroads makes a useful defensive combination.

We might be able to disrupt Brennus with spies covertly for a while. Also, late in the game we could enter a semi-suicidal war with him to stop his space race, and if he is slowly rolling us up, hope that G launches before we die! :D A real lesson in how to win by losing.

Do we still rely heavily on our northern cities for troop production? If not, maybe lower the guard there and start handing them out to Gandhi. Ideally, we would want to produce troops in Hannibal/Khan's lands instead. I think that troops are now mostly made in Nidaros, Karakorum, maybe Ferrous. So giveaways could commence but I would hold OZ and Cibola until we get to artilery perhaps.

C63, any thought on whether we should whip our cities to low pop before we gift to G? He will have less disorder time until he can use it, and the unhappiness will bother him later.

dV

Never built a spy in my CIV record, but in this situation it seems a good idea. Same with whipping cities before "losing" them - makes sense to me.

Thanks for the input guys!
@ Jon and gs, please let me know what your opinions are, I'd like to play before Saturday.

When in doubt ... micromanage! :lol:

Here are some thoughts by city:

Nidaros … watch out for the unhappiness

Cibola … With 125% added science, move from hill to hamlet

Florence … back to clad production. Work the plantation for fast pop growth

OZ … I can’t wait to see if the harbor bumps the trade route income … Florence has 23 trade route commerce, for example. If trade route income grows after harbor, maybe we should build more.

Ferrous … not sure I would have put a bank there, but we are 33% into it, maybe whip it now, then work the coast tiles to grow back?

Samarqand … had designed this for naval production … nothing is invested in the university, so maybe back to clads? Or maybe a harbor if the OZ experiment works out well.

Turfan … Oxford here. If we sacrifice food, we can make it in 16 turns at stagnation. Adds one more to physics (16) and artillery (17) at 60% sci.

Chehalis … push for pop growth. Finish theatre (so we can use culture slider if needed). Chehalis and Samarqand have a 6 food farm either can use, so keep that in mind if one or the other needs fast growth.

Karakorum … whip the bank, then work the famrs for fast pop regrowth.

Tiflis … finish barracks (NO WHIP), then maybe harbor if the OZ experiment works well. Work the anvil hill (1F 5H 1C), then the horse, and this becomes a reasonable city.

Haithabu … patience: let pop grow and forge come in.

Birk