What did not make sense? My random typing :lol: or the fact that his units cost him less than 1/2 gpt in upkeep and supply? The latter. (Your typing was...elegant...poetic...;) )

He's not building space parts yet since he hasn't finished the Apollo project! D'oh...I'm talking about the future...or did you think G will launch during your turnset? :lol: waster...

Isa still vassal.

Computers next turn. Fascism next?
I'm not sure exactly which turn ISa became a vassal, so we need to give it a few more turns.

I thought we wanted to do COmputers asap so we can cash-rush labs.

PS. CRC appear to have finished. Time to pull the finger out.....How did you figure that out?

How did you figure that out?
Porcine intuition

(that, and the fact that Lexad was visiting the Fifth Element thread....)

Isa still vassal. If she is still a vassal on your last turn, you have permission to destroy her
Computers next turn. Fascism next?Yes. You may want to drop the research rate to have money for cash-rushes.

Do you have some units heading to northern G-land to deal with his oil well?

I'm not sure exactly which turn ISa became a vassal, so we need to give it a few more turns.

I thought we wanted to do COmputers asap so we can cash-rush labs.

I'm running -400 gpt deficit to get Computers next turn. Is that asap enough for you :confused:

;)

If she is still a vassal on your last turn, you have permission to destroy her :woohoo:
Yes. You may want to drop the research rate to have money for cash-rushes.

Do you have some units heading to northern G-land to deal with his oil well?

Perhaps we shall go for Plastics/Robotics instead? Mech inf can reduce G. units, although we don't know how he will react. We can also smash-build the SE quicker?! Our WW will not delay G. to space, will it?

I will send the Uppsala-veterans to the oil patch. And I will send units through H-land to Stone Island in case Isa is unreasonable, and to protect Stone Islands from H. in case Gnejs accidently declares on him :lol:

Perhaps we shall go for Plastics/Robotics instead? Mech inf can reduce G. units, although we don't know how he will react. We can also smash-build the SE quicker?! Our WW will not delay G. to space, will it?

I will send the Uppsala-veterans to the oil patch. And I will send units through H-land to Stone Island in case Isa is unreasonable, and to protect Stone Islands from H. in case Gnejs accidently declares on him :lol:
If Gnejs accidently declares on H, then our WW will get huge. Fascism, Mount Rushmore and the option of Police State would be useful then. As G hasn't even finished Rocketry, there is no rush for the SE. Our tanks will be pretty effective against G's rifles and grenadiers....

I would let H capture Stone Island. Then we can clear him from all his old cities

Strategy Analysis

Guys, if CRC has indeed finished, as BP suggests, we be road kill. That's 70 turns from now. G is researching techs at a rate of 1 in 20 turns. Now, once upon a time, G was making nothing but bldgs, but currently he's making nothing but units. We need to do something to trigger his bldg mode again and fast. We also need to decimate his Homeland units and fast.

In short, I think we need to agree on what we think is the fastest winnable strategy, (hope it's right), and implement it no holds barred. No more ifs, ands, or buts. Space race or BUST.

My stance is this:

We know G's research is limited by

his unit costs (decimate his cultural-tile units)
his WW (only kill his units on his cultural tiles)
his lack of infrastructure (we can't control this)

We pillage G's and H's oil and uranium, when relevant
We don't worry about H--he's space-racing, not warring
We don't know if killing his units will change his production choices, but we don't have time to willy-nilly shilly-shally around anymore. Let's get radical. (Besides, Erkon and Gnejs are on the docket, and we all know they have hyper-aggressive syndrome...

Gandhi started to build units once we had common borders. If we gift Stone Island to H. we don't have any contact with G. any longer.

Attacking H. have certain advantages. Attacking G. has others.

Gandhi started to build units once we had common borders. If we gift Stone Island to H. we don't have any contact with G. any longer.

Attacking H. have certain advantages. Attacking G. has others.Excellent point. COmmon borders could also be a factor, in addition to having a city on his continent. We need to rid ourselves of (my beloved) Stone Island asap. Maybe we can trade it to H for some tech... :lol:

Turn 4 update

H. is building Broadway in Kerkouane (11 turns left)

H. is going to settle on the oil north of Karak. I should have kept Uppsala. :mad: Ok, the s**t will hit the fan. And he got a Great Merchant.

Bangalore is building Artillery :cry:

Turn 5 update

Carthage is building a spy (one turn left)

Bombay is making 46 gpt from Temple of Salomon. Building destroyer. :cry:

Spy arrived at Ning Hsia. 8 buildings survived. Building Machine Gun. :cringe:

G. has one source of oil. And Rocketry :D

Bombay is making 46 gpt from Temple of Salomon. Building destroyer. :cry:
Best pillage that oil asap then....

Just a thought, but could H be bribed into war with G? And would that be helpful or not?

It would stop H settling on G's continent and might get a bunch of H's ships and units destroyed by G's navy

Turn 6 update

Ok, here we go. I though I did something really clever: I bribed H. into switching civics to Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Free Market and Organized Religion. I gave him Radio, and got 130 gold and his map. The reason for this trade was


Forcing him into anarchy (4 turns :D )
Getting Gandhi to like him (Running his favorite civics)
Reduce his research (remove his 10% bonus from free religion)


The bad thing was that he returned to Confucianism! I didn't know that was possible :blush: So, it turns out that they are MORE upset with each others instead of getting friends...

I presume he will switch back and getting a few more turns of anarchy. Will it be possible to ask him to adopt Judaism? I presume not since we're not running it.

BTW, H. will not accept Stone Island.

Just a thought, but could H be bribed into war with G? And would that be helpful or not?

It would stop H settling on G's continent and might get a bunch of H's ships and units destroyed by G's navy

I'm on my way to pillage oil.

Yes, it's possible to bribe H. into war with G. I don't think that will help G. much :lol:

Just a thought, but could H be bribed into war with G? And would that be helpful or not?

It would stop H settling on G's continent and might get a bunch of H's ships and units destroyed by G's navyLOL.

That's very interesting, BP!!!

BTW, H. will not accept Stone Island.
Give it to someone else, like Brennus. in exchange for kissing G's ass...

Turn 7 update

I killed the b***c. Could not resist. This improved the relations between H. and G. H. is now annoyed, not furious. M. is cautious with G.

I also checked H. city. Since he gave me all his gold, he has zero, nada, inget. He's not only poor, he paying 18 gpt! So, he's got STRIKE :lol: But will he loose units during anarchy?

G. is researching Assembly Line (in 21 turns)

I'm on my way to pillage oil.

Yes, it's possible to bribe H. into war with G. I don't think that will help G. much :lol:Have you killed 150 of his units yet?

Turn 8 update

G. is farming our cottages at Karak. And then building cottages again. As if money smells! G. is down to 20% research and it appears he has used gold to upgrade units. How is it possible to loose against the AI on monarch? :lol:

G. has 50 units in Delhi, but he's building a Temple! :D

Have you killed 150 of his units yet?

I've killed about 10 of G. units, but he's replacing them quicker :(

Turn 9 update

I haven't started playing this, but I think it's suitable to upload. We need to discuss next research (fascism is in), and whom to attack.

Take a look at H. power graph. Is he loosing units due to strike? That would be hilarious.

I'm done.

Session Turn Log from 1784 AD to 1800 AD:

Turn 407, 1784 AD: Judaism has spread in Brennus Loves G.
Turn 407, 1784 AD: You have made peace with Brennus!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport (16.00) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 96.2%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport (16.00) vs Gandhi's Frigate (11.60)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 79.8%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Transport has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry (26.00) vs Gandhi's Artillery (18.00)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 88.9%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry has defeated Gandhi's Artillery!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry (24.00) vs Gandhi's Artillery (18.00)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry has defeated Gandhi's Artillery!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery (21.60) vs Gandhi's Cavalry (16.50)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 77.3%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery has defeated Gandhi's Cavalry!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery (19.80) vs Gandhi's Cavalry (16.50)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Murky Waters's Artillery has defeated Gandhi's Cavalry!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Edirne. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Philadelphia celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: The borders of Boston have expanded!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Camulodunum celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 407, 1784 AD: Brennus has agreed to become a vassal state of Hannibal
Turn 407, 1784 AD: A Viking revolt has taken place in Los Angeles!

Turn 408, 1786 AD: Taoism has spread in Bursa.
Turn 408, 1786 AD: Camulodunum celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!

Turn 409, 1788 AD: Judaism has spread in Konya.
Turn 409, 1788 AD: Islam has spread in Ankara.
Turn 409, 1788 AD: You have captured Uppsala!!!
Turn 409, 1788 AD: You have destroyed the city of Uppsala!!!
Turn 409, 1788 AD: The borders of Philadelphia have expanded!
Turn 409, 1788 AD: You have trained Spy in Seville. Work has now begun on a Artillery.
Turn 409, 1788 AD: Ning-hsia (Murky Waters) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 409, 1788 AD: Isabella converts to Confucianism!

Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Submarine (24.00) vs Gandhi's Frigate (9.60)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 410, 1790 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Submarine is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Submarine has defeated Gandhi's Frigate!
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship (48.00) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 410, 1790 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship is hit for 7 (93/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 50 (50/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 50 (0/100HP)
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 410, 1790 AD: You have discovered Computers!
Turn 410, 1790 AD: Leif Erickson (Great Merchant) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 411, 1792 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship (44.64) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.02)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 411, 1792 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship is hit for 7 (86/100HP)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 50 (34/100HP)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 50 (0/100HP)
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 411, 1792 AD: Barcelona will become unhappy on the next turn

Turn 412, 1794 AD: Hannibal adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Hannibal adopts Free Speech!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Hannibal adopts Free Market!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Hannibal adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Barcelona has grown to size 13
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Barcelona has become unhappy
Turn 412, 1794 AD: Salamanca celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Destroyer!
Turn 412, 1794 AD: A Viking revolt has taken place in Birka!

Turn 413, 1796 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Stone Island!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Bursa!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Stone Island!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Stone Island!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry (28.00) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Infantry has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Your Infantry has destroyed a Grenadier!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Your Battleship has reduced the defenses of Jaipur to 40%!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Your Destroyer has reduced the defenses of Jaipur to 32%!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Tank (28.00) vs Isabella's Rifleman (21.00)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Isabella's Rifleman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Tank has defeated Isabella's Rifleman!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Your Tank has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: You have captured Nidaros!!!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: The Spanish Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: You have destroyed the city of Nidaros!!!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship (44.00) vs Gandhi's Destroyer (33.60)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Combat Odds: 86.1%
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Destroyer is hit for 21 (59/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Destroyer is hit for 21 (38/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Destroyer is hit for 21 (17/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Gandhi's Destroyer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship has defeated Gandhi's Destroyer!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Your Battleship has destroyed a Destroyer!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Taoism has spread in Vienne.
Turn 413, 1796 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Bursa. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 413, 1796 AD: You have constructed a Trading Post in Philadelphia. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Salamanca celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 413, 1796 AD: Salamanca will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 413, 1796 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Destroyer!

Turn 414, 1798 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Stone Island!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: You have plundered 5? from the Well!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Your Battleship has reduced the defenses of Jaipur to 22%!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Your Destroyer has reduced the defenses of Jaipur to 15%!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Murky Waters's Transport (11.20) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 414, 1798 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 10 (60/100HP)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Murky Waters's Transport is hit for 10 (50/100HP)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Murky Waters's Transport has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Your Transport has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: You have discovered Fascism!
Turn 414, 1798 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Bursa. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Stone Island will grow to size 9 on the next turn
Turn 414, 1798 AD: Salamanca has grown to size 11

Turn 415, 1800 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Stone Island!

WP Erkon. "Got it"

Excellent job, Erkon! What's next? Maybe Gnejs should play about 50 turns, get the dam thing over with... ;)

Excellent job, Erkon! What's next? Maybe Gnejs should play about 50 turns, get the dam thing over with... ;)

I can assure you that 50 turns, especially with MM, is not even on the map. But I agree that this game is getting pretty boring now that we do not have that big influence on Gandhi's progress towards the stars anymore. Maybe that is the reason why the strategy discussions have been non-existent the last day or two...

I see the following options for my turnset.


Attack Gandhi near Delhi, to get down his unit count
Prepare for the above
DoW H
Prepare for the above
Press end of turn 10 times (more or less, but you get the point)


My own suggestion is to go for option 3. We can keep 1-2 in the back pocket for later. Any other suggestions?

I could play tonight, and I might if noone cares enough to tell me I am an idiot in suggesting that we DoW H... :)

I can assure you that 50 turns, especially with MM, is not even on the map. But I agree that this game is getting pretty boring now that we do not have that big influence on Gandhi's progress towards the stars anymore. Maybe that is the reason why the strategy discussions have been non-existent the last day or two...

I see the following options for my turnset.


Attack Gandhi near Delhi, to get down his unit count
Prepare for the above
DoW H
Prepare for the above
Press end of turn 10 times (more or less, but you get the point)


My own suggestion is to go for option 3. We can keep 1-2 in the back pocket for later. Any other suggestions?

I could play tonight, and I might if noone cares enough to tell me I am an idiot in suggesting that we DoW H... :)

Kill'em all

DOW H sounds great. My only caveat is be sure to destroy oil city on turn 0 of the the war so H doesn't build a bunch of tanks and destroyers.

We can also capture Chicago and Mehmet-ville too as we will automatically be at war with W and M too

Kill'em all

DOW H sounds great. My only caveat is be sure to destroy oil city on turn 0 of the the war so H doesn't build a bunch of tanks and destroyers.

We can also capture Chicago and Mehmet-ville too as we will automatically be at war with W and M too

Yeah, kill'em all! :aargh:

It will take a couple of turns for the stack that destroyed G. oil to reach the oil city, so perhaps it's best to wait until they get there before declaring?

It would also be good to pillage or sabotage G's *other* oil well (E of NS)

Well, at this point, I'm a little bit numb to the whole thing...but I can still muster up a feeble "you are an idiot in suggesting that we DoW H."

I personally think G Inc. has the higher priority of the two, as in G Inc.reasing his research budget by decreasing his unit costs. But I haven't even looked a the save, so I have no idea how many units we have for these various operations.

Is H currently "thinking" about DoWing someone?

EDIT: And what about trading? Is anyone trading with G anymore, or are we saving that for the next SG...? :crazyeye:

Btw, I suggested that we do a deity SG next time. That way we could lose quickly and get it over with... :lol:

Well, at this point, I'm a little bit numb to the whole thing...but I can still muster up a feeble "you are an idiot in suggesting that we DoW H."

I personally think G Inc. has the higher priority of the two, as in G Inc.reasing his research budget by decreasing his unit costs. But I haven't even looked a the save, so I have no idea how many units we have for these various operations.

Is H currently "thinking" about DoWing someone?

EDIT: And what about trading? Is anyone trading with G anymore, or are we saving that for the next SG...? :crazyeye:

Btw, I suggested that we do a deity SG next time. That way we could lose quickly and get it over with... :lol:

No idea, I haven't looked at the save yet.

As a matter of fact, if I don't play tonight it will have to wait until next week, so perhaps Big Pig and I should switch our turns? I fell I would be rushing you towards (bad?) decisions otherwise...

No idea, I haven't looked at the save yet.

As a matter of fact, if I don't play tonight it will have to wait until next week, so perhaps Big Pig and I should switch our turns? I fell I would be rushing you towards (bad?) decisions otherwise...Unless BP chimes in, I'd jsut play if I were you. DOn't worry about it. We're just guessing anyway, so there's no way to know what's best. Just play your turnset and do what you think is best.

And play 15 turns, even if it means you have to play a whole hour. ;)

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm joking a bit with this number-of-turns thing. Our current agreement is ~10 turns/turnset and I suppose should remain such unless we agree otherwise.

Unless BP chimes in, I'd jsut play if I were you. DOn't worry about it. We're just guessing anyway, so there's no way to know what's best. Just play your turnset and do what you think is best.

And play 15 turns, even if it means you have to play a whole hour. ;)

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm joking a bit with this number-of-turns thing. Our current agreement is ~10 turns/turnset and I suppose should remain such unless we agree otherwise.

Never did get a chance to play last night. BP or whoever, feel free to take over. I can run my turnset on Monday instead.

Never did get a chance to play last night. BP or whoever, feel free to take over. I can run my turnset on Monday instead.

Waster!!!!

Never did get a chance to play last night. BP or whoever, feel free to take over. I can ruin my turnset on Monday instead.
Got it.........

I've played 2 turns and uploaded

Not much to report so far - rushed a few labs, finished Globe in Istanbul, etc etc. But, I am about to DOW on H, unless one of you manages to dissuade me from doing anything so foolish (the transport is outside of Oil city, and H has yet to build any tanks or modern navy. Now seems as good a time as any...

Too late

War has been declared :)

Brennus capital has been razed - he has to turn Jewish now!!!

Too late

War has been declared :)

Brennus capital has been razed - he has to turn Jewish now!!!Go for it! Take that porker down... :lol:

B is Jewish - now only 'annoyed' with G
M-capital is ours
H's cavalry SOD has crumbled against the stout defences of Washington

Great play.

Finished.


B and M capitals captured. B is now Jewish - still annoyed with G but has OB with him (a promising start...). M has renounced his vassaldom (but may be in danger of becoming a G vassal?) and we have gotten peace with him
Most of the war with H has so far been spent sitting in Washington. I eventually got bored and capture Atlanta (21 :gold: per turn). Our (new improved) navy is busy knocking down the fortifications of H's coastal cities and we have a couple of 12 unit stacks in transports to the N and S
Spammed a few labs and lots of jails and colliseums. Rushmore built in Murcia - WW not looking too bad
IW finally built in Edirne. Needs more farms to allow us to work all 6 engineers
Operation Gandhi oil-sabotage in full swing. He will have his NS well rebuilt in 2 turns and we have a spy waiting to sabotage the well again
G has no new techs. Once he gets Ass Line he may be in the mood to trade with W for Electricity
G has stopped building units and is buildings theatres, temples and courthouses


I have left it for one of our resident warmongers to carry on taking the war to H. Maybe I should be building more land units?

Edirne is building the Pentagon to maximise its GE chances

I can play tonight if you want? Kick some H ass...

I can play tonight if you want? Kick some H ass...
Sounds good to me. If you post a 'got it' before LC, its yours.....

(tho' I'm not sure Gnejs would be happy with you stealing his war from him...)

I can play tonight if you want? Kick some H ass...

Sounds good to me. If you post a 'got it' before LC, its yours.....

(tho' I'm not sure Gnejs would be happy with you stealing his war from him...)Have at it, Erkon. Gnejs forfeited his right to all weekend play. Maybe I'll even play another turnset tomorrow, before he gets back, just to teach hima lesson... ;)

Lost internet connection - cant play - sorry

"Got it!!!"

Muahahahahahhaha!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think Gnejs has it yet. Anyone fancy a turnset of warmongering?

Lost internet connection...My deepest sympathy...if there's anything I can do during this difficult time, don't hesitate to let me know...

G has stopped building units and is buildings theatres, temples and courthouses



This is great news! Great play BP!

Btw, would anyone mind if I play my turns right now?

Btw, would anyone mind if I play my turns right now?No. But I would mind if you didn't... ;)

No. But I would mind if you didn't... ;)

Ok, I am starting up then... :)

Don't screw up this time...

Turn 0 update:
Have gone through all cities and changed some stuff. I am delaying Pentagon and Hollywood in favour of some more units. To make up for this I assign two more engineers at Edirne. :)

Turn 0 continued:
I notice there are some troops on board some ships that still have movement left. Yipiie, some action! :) I use them do get rid of almost all H's units in Sicca, including a bunch of Artillery.

IBT:
Hannibal adopts Police State, Bureaucracy, Mercantilism, Free Religion. More anarchy for H... :lol:

Brown City is building Apollo program. 37 turns to go. No Aluminium, no factory...

154212

IBT:
Hannibal adopts Police State, Bureaucracy, Mercantilism, Free Religion. More anarchy for H... :lol:
On the subject of which, this war is our 'last' opportunity for a civics change. Since we got jails and Rushmore I'm not sure we need Police State, but FR and SP would definately be beneficial..... Worth thinking about when WW starts to increase

Turn 1: Capture Sicca and Hadrumetum

@BP: Ok, I will keep that in mind with the civics.

Turn 2: Capture Utica = conf holy city 18 gpt
Pillage G's oil

Turn 3: nothing
Turn 4: Capture Carthage + another city. Revolt to SP + FR (3 turns anarchy) as WW is ramping up. Mehmed becomes a vassal to H so we are at war with everyone except W...

Turn 5: Capture 2 more of Hannibals cities. He is down to 1 city now, time to make peace.

Gandhi is up to 50% research! :)

Uploading the save now, as I won't be playing more tonight. There will be a mess to sort out when we get out of anarchy. On the bright side, we now have the SoL so there is a bunch of specialists to assign.

Oh, and btw, I followed your excellent signs BP and got rid of G's worker on the N oil. :)

Excellent work!!!! I'm sure it would have taken me 5 turns just to capture Sicca.

Is M a vassal of H or G?

I've rather lost track of the roster, but I think LC is next up, followed by Erkon (internet connection permitting...)

Gnejs - It took you three hours to play five turns?! Man, that's what you normally spend on a quick GOTM...

I've rather lost track of the roster, but I think LC is next up, followed by Erkon (internet connection permitting...)Gnejs still has to finish his turnset.

Mehmed becomes a vassal to H so we are at war with everyone except W...

Is M a vassal of H or G?

I don't think it will last that long though, considering Hannibals rather smallish empire... :)

Gnejs still has to finish his turnset.

Peace with H seems like a given, but what next? Hannibal may become a vassal to Gandhi too. In any case, we need to decide who should get what techs when.

If people vassalize to G then we cannot contact them anymore, correct? Meaning no more trades, etc. This is bad news.

We would do better to have them vassalize to us, if anything. But we don't want that to happen until after they stop trading techs with G.

Hmmm... this is tricky.

If people vassalize to G then we cannot contact them anymore, correct? Meaning no more trades, etc. This is bad news.

We would do better to have them vassalize to us, if anything. But we don't want that to happen until after they stop trading techs with G.

Hmmm... this is tricky.
I think the key is to try to manipulate relations of the other AIs with G so that they are >= cautious but <whatever threshold is in the xml for vassalizing peacefully

Gnejs still has to finish his turnset.
There are no more wars to fight - he won't be interested ;)

I think the key is to try to manipulate relations of the other AIs with G so that they are >= cautious but <whatever threshold is in the xml for vassalizing peacefully

G and H are not on very good terms, so I think we can gamble on H not vassalizing. He still won't capitulate to us. Maybe it is because he still believes he has lots of units = decent power. If we leave him with a huge garrison he might be confident enough to stay independent.

There are no more wars to fight - he won't be interested ;)

Erkon was talking about nuking G on the turn he finishes his spaceship. I just need to manipulate the events so that happens during my turnset... ;)

Erkon was talking about nuking G on the turn he finishes his spaceship. I just need to manipulate the events so that happens during my turnset... ;)
You have a pretty good track-record of that so far...

Turn 5, continued: peace with H and his vassals Brennus and Mehmed. 2 turns of anarchy to go.

I am starting to prepare for a smash'n'grab'n'build next turnset. A GE is worth 1260 hammers. I suggest 3GD with New Sarai as the target as this city seems pretty worthless to G with mostly farms. Besides, it has the Heroic Epic which G won't be needing... ;)

IBT: G discovers Assembly Line. Up to 60% research now. WTG Gandhi! Can't see what he is researching now yet.
G can trade AL for Electr with W.


Brennus renounces Hannibal, adopts free market.

Turn 7:
Brennus the schizophrenic vassalizes to Hannibal again.
G researches Electricity in 8 turns.
H researches Plastics in 1 turn.
Out of Anarchy - massive MM in all cities to make use of free specialists + added food from state property. Besides, we now have no unhappiness. :)
Next GE in 28 turns.
Plastics in 2 turns. We have 1500 gold +57 gpt at 80% research :)
I am starting to cottage in former America and Carthage.

massive MM in all cities to make use of free specialists + added food from state property.
Ok LC, we know its you really. What have you done with Gnejs?

Has G done any trades yet?

I am starting to prepare for a smash'n'grab'n'build next turnset. A GE is worth 1260 hammers. I suggest 3GD with New Sarai as the target as this city seems pretty worthless to G with mostly farms. Besides, it has the Heroic Epic which G won't be needing... ;)
3GD costs 2625 hammers - which means we have to finance 1365 hammers through USuff. How much will 1365 (wonder) hammers cost us? (Edit: Judging from the other wonder builds in the last save, I would guess around 12000 gold. How many turns of 0% research would that take to accumulate?)

G is not trading, although W has Electricity and needs Assembly line.

I am not that worried about getting the funds to buy the 3GD. We have +1800 gpt at 0% research... :)

Hannibal gets Plastics turn 8, starts on MM (69 turns :lol: ).
We get plastics on turn 9, start on Robotics at 90% (done in 7 turns)
We also need Satellites for the Space Elevator. Apart from that, we may be able to rush-buy it before the second GE pops... :)

I am not that worried about getting the funds to buy the 3GD. We have +1800 gpt at 0% research... :)

= ~7 turns to get the cash (+ 2 turns to complete Plastics)

I imagine NS will be in revolt for ~5 turns. It would be wise to gather up the task force for the smash n' build now. We need 3-5 battleships, 2-3 destroyers (to bombard the city to 0% in 1 turn), 1 GE and enough tanks etc (and transports) to take and hold NS for 5 turns. You should have enough units left over from your war with H......

(Hyderabad would be another possible target - tho' I do like the idea of razing G's Heroic Epic)

= ~7 turns to get the cash (+ 2 turns to complete Plastics)

I imagine NS will be in revolt for ~5 turns. It would be wise to gather up the task force for the smash n' build now. We need 3-5 battleships, 2-3 destroyers (to bombard the city to 0% in 1 turn), 1 GE and enough tanks etc (and transports) to take and hold NS for 5 turns. You should have enough units left over from your war with H......


Don't worry, everything will be in place.

We should consider keeping NS until we complete the SE there too. The downside is that it may put Gandhi back in his furious war mode...

Save uploaded.

Turn 10:
Gandhi is building IW in Delhi (5 turns)

Units in place for an amphibious assault on New Sarai at the end of this turn. We have enough units that even Erkon could'nt fail to take and hold it. Just make sure that the GE is protected, his transport has already moved, so be sure to keep an escort or two there. I was tempted to do it myself, but then Big Pig would never stop nagging me about it...:p

And, almost forgot...

Gandhi trades for Electricity!
:) :woohoo: [party] :band: :bday: :beer: :high5:
Gives Assembly line to Washington, and starts on Industrialism (due in 13 turns at 70% research)

Brennus would be perfect as a trading partner now since he wants lots of the techs that Gandhi has. But unfortunately he is annoyed with Gandhi...

"Got it."

Looks like you guys have handled all our problems except how to get Brennus up to Cautious.

(sigh)

Okay. I'll do it.

Im worried that the smash-grab-build manouver will send Gandhi into his now infamous unit-build-frenzy. What has he gained if he spends 5-10 turns in each city to build units instead of coal plants? And what if he drops research to fund unit upgrades?

Perhaps it's better to wait until we can get build SE at the same time?

And what about rushing Rock'n Roll in a city that we gift to W? Then he will trade hit singles to Gandhi => good.

Finally, how about gifting Stone Island to H? As soon as the current production is complete? That would enable us to take H's last core city in case he vassilizes to G. And more important, by getting rid of Stone Island we loose our last border contact with G.

And what is left for us to do apart from clicking next-turn? I mean, before we launch a massive nuclear strike against G. the turn before he takes off? :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Im worried that the smash-grab-build manouver will send Gandhi into his now infamous unit-build-frenzy. What has he gained if he spends 5-10 turns in each city to build units instead of coal plants? 2 health per city? And what if he drops research to fund unit upgrades? Perhaps it's better to wait until we can get build SE at the same time?
You may be right that he will build a few more units. But:
1. he will hopefully lose several attacking us, thus reducing maintenance
2. hopefully by the time he completes most of his current builds, we will be long gone out of NS
3. the sooner we build 3GD the sooner G will be able to benefit from the increased production

And what about rushing Rock'n Roll in a city that we gift to W? Then he will trade hit singles to Gandhi => good. That is an excellent idea. Another advantage is that W should be prepared to trade happiness resources (hit singles) to us while he is annoyed with us. In fact we should aim to do the same with Broadway and Hollywood too. Should we consider also smash n' building the Eifel tower in G-land so he can maximise the happiness benefit of those hit singles....?

Finally, how about gifting Stone Island to H? As soon as the current production is complete? That would enable us to take H's last core city in case he vassilizes to G. And more important, by getting rid of Stone Island we loose our last border contact with G. I agree we should gift H a city somewhere - but he will (edit) NOT peacefully vassalize at less than friendly. Is our sea border with G a problem? Are we currently getting a close border negmod with him? I thought only land borders were important

And what is left for us to do apart from clicking next-turn? I mean, before we launch a massive nuclear strike against G. the turn before he takes off? :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
Optimizing trades for G, optimizing research for G, building and gifting wonders, optimizing diplo relations, lots of MM......

You may be right that he will build a few more units. But:
1. he will hopefully lose several attacking us, thus reducing maintenance
2. hopefully by the time he completes most of his current builds, we will be long gone out of NS
3. the sooner we build 3GD the sooner G will be able to benefit from the increased production


We are not that far from being able to rush the SE. I guess about 12 turns of research + about 10-15 turns at 100% gold for getting the required cash (for both wonders).

Therefore I think it is a good idea to wait with the smash-n-build until we can complete both the 3GD and the SE. Doing them one at a time will cost us 1) the repeated anarchy in that city and 2) increases the chance that G goes into war-mode again.

And what is left for us to do apart from clicking next-turn? Optimizing trades for G, optimizing research for G, building and gifting wonders, optimizing diplo relations, lots of MM......Don't fret it too much, BP. Erkon and Gnejs are considered by many to be two of the most successful members of Warmongers Anonymous to never graduate.

NS still has 51% Viking culture. I wonder if we will avoid the anarchy still?

I'm not sure there is much point building 3GD if we delay ~25 turns as G will be building nasty polluting coal power plants in most of his cities by then. Delaying 5 or 6 turns until we get the gold to buy him Eiffel tower might be acceptable tho'

(I note G has a ~GE in Delhi - shouldn't he be building his own Wonders??)

PS On the subject of GEs, a bit of MM in Edirne will speed up the Pentagon build to 15 turns - ie in enough time to actually influence whether or not the next GP in Edirne is a GE or not...... ;)

NS still has 51% Viking culture. I wonder if we will avoid the anarchy still?

I'm not sure there is much point building 3GD if we delay ~25 turns as G will be building nasty polluting coal power plants in most of his cities by then. Delaying 5 or 6 turns until we get the gold to buy him Eiffel tower might be acceptable tho'

Well, it is a difficult choice. I would hate to disrupt Gandhi now that he has finally gotten the research back up.

(I note G has a ~GE in Delhi - shouldn't he be building his own Wonders??)

PS On the subject of GEs, a bit of MM in Edirne will speed up the Pentagon build to 15 turns - ie in enough time to actually influence whether or not the next GP in Edirne is a GE or not...... ;)

I MM-ed for growth instead, figuring that we should quickly grow to a comfortable size and then switch to production. Not sure that the Pentagon will have any noticable effect on the next GP...

I'm back. With internet connection.

I'm back. With internet connection."Ungot it!" Not going to be able to play my turnset till Thursday or Friday night, so if you want to swap Erkon, that's fine by me.

I know everyone is very excited about the upcoming WOTM, but perhaps we could also not forget about this current SGOTM..... I'm sure you must all be brimming with ideas on where to go from here that you wish to share (pay attention at the back LC!)

Erkon: do you want to play tonight or leave it for LC to play tomorrow/Fri?

"Ungot it!" Not going to be able to play my turnset till Thursday or Friday night, so if you want to swap Erkon, that's fine by me.

Waster! :lol:

I know everyone is very excited about the upcoming WOTM, but perhaps we could also not forget about this current SGOTM..... I'm sure you must all be brimming with ideas on where to go from here that you wish to share (pay attention at the back LC!)

Erkon: do you want to play tonight or leave it for LC to play tomorrow/Fri?

I suggest someone plays tonight. If Erkon can't handle it then you (or even I) should do it. We are leaving the MM era - I have already put some cities to producing wealth or research - and there is no major war left so ten turns shouldn't be too taxing...

(pay attention at the back LC!)
Waster! :lol:Dam, at least you guys could throw fresh tomatoes...

My main problem is that my relocation has downgraded my computer facilities and playing-time access drastically. I suspect you guys have forgotten what it's like to set the game to low graphics and the interturn still takes 1-3 minutes. Every time I move a worker he breakdances across the monitor at astronaut-on-a-spacewalk speed.

In short, I need to be able to negotiate a huge chunk of access time to play my turnset.

The computer I use the rest of the day is on campus and while I can visit the forum, alas...I can't load up the game.

I suggest someone plays tonight. If Erkon can't handle it then you (or even I) should do it. We are leaving the MM era - I have already put some cities to producing wealth or research - and there is no major war left so ten turns shouldn't be too taxing...ok. If there is no word from Erkon in the next 3 hours or so, then I will play a set tonight.
I also suggest we can safely expand the captain's turnsets to 15 turns or so as there are no more (major) wars to distract us from the joys of MM
Dam, at least you guys could throw fresh tomatoes...

My main problem is that my relocation has downgraded my computer facilities and playing-time access drastically. I suspect you guys have forgotten what it's like to set the game to low graphics and the interturn still takes 1-3 minutes. Every time I move a worker he breakdances across the monitor at astronaut-on-a-spacewalk speed.

In short, I need to be able to negotiate a huge chunk of access time to play my turnset.

The computer I use the rest of the day is on campus and while I can visit the forum, alas...I can't load up the game.
I had forgotten LC had returned to the third world. You guys should really have remained a colony - you would be quite advanced by now and you would play proper sports rather than baseball and 'football'
My observation was more regarding the lack of strategic input - although I appreciate not being able to open up the game does hamper your ability to come up with good tactical insights ;)

On Brennus, I've pretty much run out of ideas on how to improve his standing with G. We knew from the beginning he'd be a tough cookie. Hopefully, with time he'll cross the threshold. But don't forget: On any given turn, Brennus can flip to Cautious with G for that turn and make a trade, so it's vital to montior and keep his tech balance primed for a trade with G every turn.

On the smash-and-grab idea, I think it's better to minimize the times we capture any cities, in addition to the reasons you've all given, because that city loses half its infrastructure each time. One thing to keep in mind in terms of when to do this: G needs factories before he'll build coal mines, right? So beforehe has a bunch of factories AND before he has finished Apollo, I don't see a need for 3GD. One exception to this: Does G have a factory but not a coal plant in the city where he's building Apollo? If so, then get 3GD done yesterday...

I still like the idea of decimating G's forces on his culture-dominated lands, even with the risk it entails--triggering more G military build-ups, simply because his research rate, even at 50% is still pathetic. But I understand it's a gamble. The thing is, if CRC has really already finished, and there graph is definitely not moving anymore, then we're going for Silver at best (assuming G went into space :)), so why not gamble? But to be honest, I alos have mixed feelings on this, so maybe we should wait and see if his research % keeps rising. Maybe G will kill off some of his own obsolete units.

Otherwise, it seems like things are moving smoothly.

If someone could give me a screen shot of the tech screen and the attitude screen I could make suggestions. Otherwise, I think we're getting to the point where we need to balance 1) facilitating G's tech trades with 2) gifting the tech that G is researching to AIs that won't trade with him (except Brennus for now).

Assuming that we're ahead of G in techs so we can do 2), then our research focus should be producing SE asap, I think. And our commerce focus should be paying for 3GD and SE and any other wonders we want to throw in...(In other words--what you guys have been saying).

I had forgotten LC had returned to the third world. You guys should really have remained an ant colony - you would be quite advanced by now and you would play proper sports rather than baseball and 'football'We do play football. It only looks like guerilla ball to you folks because...well, I don't know...I guess it's not the size of the colony, it's the size of the ant...:cool:

On Brennus, I've pretty much run out of ideas on how to improve his standing with G. We knew from the beginning he'd be a tough cookie. Hopefully, with time he'll cross the threshold. But don't forget: On any given turn, Brennus can flip to Cautious with G for that turn and make a trade, so it's vital to montior and keep his tech balance primed for a trade with G every turn. Good point. His share the same religion plus mod will slowly increase with time - although conversely his mutual military struggle plus mod will decline (although we can of course do something about that....)

On the smash-and-grab idea, I think it's better to minimize the times we capture any cities, in addition to the reasons you've all given, because that city loses half its infrastructure each time. One thing to keep in mind in terms of when to do this: G needs factories before he'll build coal mines, right? So beforehe has a bunch of factories AND before he has finished Apollo, I don't see a need for 3GD. One exception to this: Does G have a factory but not a coal plant in the city where he's building Apollo? If so, then get 3GD done yesterday... G finishes Apollo in BC in something like 30 turns. AFAIK he does not have a factory in BC so cannot speed this up. In 30 turns time all his (other) production cities will have factories and coal plants and so will have no need for the 3GD's power. *If* we are going to build it for him, we need to build it now - and in a podunk city that losing half the infrastructure is no big deal (PS If the city is quickly recaptured, does it still lose half its infrastructure? I thought not....). But it is a gamle on whether it will send G into unit building mode or not... (on the plus side he may decide to sacrifice Delhi's SOD on trying to recapture the city

I still like the idea of decimating G's forces on his culture-dominated lands, even with the risk it entails--triggering more G military build-ups, simply because his research rate, even at 50% is still pathetic. But I understand it's a gamble. The thing is, if CRC has really already finished, and there graph is definitely not moving anymore, then we're going for Silver at best (assuming G went into space :)), so why not gamble? But to be honest, I alos have mixed feelings on this, so maybe we should wait and see if his research % keeps rising. Maybe G will kill off some of his own obsolete units. We probably have another 10-20 turns after CRC's last posted save. But I agree - with Apollo taking 30 turns in BC there is no way we will get G into space in the next 100 years

Otherwise, it seems like things are moving smoothly.

If someone could give me a screen shot of the tech screen and the attitude screen I could make suggestions. Otherwise, I think we're getting to the point where we need to balance 1) facilitating G's tech trades with 2) gifting the tech that G is researching to AIs that won't trade with him (except Brennus for now).

Assuming that we're ahead of G in techs so we can do 2), then our research focus should be producing SE asap, I think. And our commerce focus should be paying for 3GD and SE and any other wonders we want to throw in...(In other words--what you guys have been saying).
Great stuff

although conversely his mutual military struggle plus mod will decline I've seen this stated a number of times by a variety of players, but I've never seen it decrease in my games. Maybe it decreases very slowly, I don't know.

I've seen this stated a number of times by a variety of players, but I've never seen it decrease in my games. Maybe it decreases very slowly, I don't know.
I agree I can't see it on Ori's spreadsheet. I am pretty certain we saw it (frequently) in SGOTM3

My observation was more regarding the lack of strategic input - although I appreciate not being able to open up the game does hamper your ability to come up with good tactical insights ;)

Has never hindered me... :p

Has never hindered me... :p
I think what you mean is that the ability to open the save has never helped you come up with good tactical insights :lol:

I think what you mean is that the ability to open the save has never helped you come up with good tactical insights :lol:

No, I actually post 90% of my thoughts on our strategy without having looked at the save. Haven't you noticed? :D

Whether they have been good or not I won't debate with you... :p

I've seen this stated a number of times by a variety of players, but I've never seen it decrease in my games. Maybe it decreases very slowly, I don't know.

Yes, the mutual struggle adjustment declines over time.

And I won't play tonight.

After we have built the 3GD and SE, we should rush-buy all non-culture buildings. Some will survive, yes?

I agree I can't see it on Ori's spreadsheet. I am pretty certain we saw it (frequently) in SGOTM3Guys kept talking about its potential, but I never once noticed it, and I checked frequently. I'd be interested if you happen to find an example. (I have no access to those saves anymore.)

Why can't we plant coal plants with our spy?

Yes, the mutual struggle adjustment declines over time.Erkon, have you actually experienced this? I ask, because I have discovered a number of "wive's tales" concerning AI attitude and I just checked ori's spreadsheet (I can download it here--:king:) and there is nothing in the Memory Decay section on shared war.

For the record, Brennus can go to +4 max on shared war, incrementing every 8 turns, and to +6 !!! on shared religion, incrementing every 10 turns...

Why can't we plant coal plants with our spy?
How? The spy opens up the city screen but gives us no control over what to build

Yes, the mutual struggle adjustment declines over time.

And I won't play tonight.

After we have built the 3GD and SE, we should rush-buy all non-culture buildings. Some will survive, yes?
Ok then - 'got it'
I still need to be dissuaded from Smash n' Building the 3GD tho' - I really don't think it will have anywhere near as much value gifting it in 20 turns time

Ok then - 'got it'
I still need to be dissuaded from Smash n' Building the 3GD tho' - I really don't think it will have anywhere near as much value gifting it in 20 turns time

I won't dissuade you, that was Erkon's idea. Although, I agree to a degree.

Besides, why shouldn't you be entitled to a little fun in Gandhiland? :ar15: :ninja: :backstab:

Ok then - 'got it'
I still need to be dissuaded from Smash n' Building the 3GD tho' - I really don't think it will have anywhere near as much value gifting it in 20 turns timeWell, a good argument in favor is if our culture there is still 51% and that IF that means no anarchy period for the city....

Go for it BP! Break the bank... :lol:

And have fun. This is a crazy game and everyone knows it. Let's play!

Well, a good argument in favor is if our culture there is still 51% and that IF that means no anarchy period for the city....

On the other hand, if there is no anarchy then we can wait to capture NS until we have the funds for a cash-rush (probably in 3-4 turns so not very long).

Good luck, Big Pig! It is all in your hands now.

Erkon, have you actually experienced this? ...

Yes, it's my own experience, although I won't bet my copy of Civ on it. The reason why I noticed was that I had a drop in relation from friendly to pleased, which scared me a bit since the AI in question then could consider a war against me. I will keep my eyes open and report next time it happens.

BP, you are the boss. Do whatever you want. If Gandhi starts his troop-building-frenzy we all know who to blame: LC who supported you!

Why can't we plant coal plants with our spy?

Because coal is not a seed... :p

Turn 0:

I decide to wait with the invasion force for a few turns to get a bit more cash in case NS has only a short period of anarchy
I employ an idle battleship to sink G's destroyer
unable to resist the temptation to meddle, I change a few builds a do a bit of MM

Turn 1:

ibt G uses his GE to build Broadway in Delhi
sink another G destroyer. Hopefully he will be out of destroyers soon
sink a G galleon - hopefully loaded with units to decrease his maintenance
sabotage a G oil well

Any news with Brennus? What are his shared war and religion plusmods?

Remains annoyed (as does H)

He's getting closer though. He has :

Brennus: -8, varying from -2 to -14

which puts him at -4 (on average) right now. We need him at -2. A maximum of 20 turns shold do it. But he should flip to cautious on occasion. I can't tell from that screen if he has anything G wants. Make sure he does. He might even trade a couple of techs, given the chance.

EDIT: that traded with our worst enemy is problematic, though. That might be the achille's heel for all this.

EDIT2: If I understand the random factor, there should be a 15/36 chance of getting a -2 to -6 on any given turn, which is 41%. Better than 1 in 3. So every third turn he ought to be Cautious. Check it.

He's getting closer though. He has :

Brennus: -8, varying from -2 to -14

which puts him at -4 (on average) right now. We need him at -2. A maximum of 20 turns shold do it. But he should flip to cautious on occasion. I can't tell from that screen if he has anything G wants. Make sure he does. He might even trade a couple of techs, given the chance.


Gift him Industrialism. At worst, it gives Gandhi a discount on his current research. At best, Brennus will trade it for something of G's.

Turn 3-4:
NS in revolt for 6 turns :(

Turn 5:
G now is paying maintenance on ~15 less units :)

Turn 5:
G now is paying maintenance on ~15 less units :)

Great! Did you see how much it saved him?

Great! Did you see how much it saved him?

Ummm, no :blush:
The good news is tho that he can still maintain 70% research and he isn't building units in the cities I can see

My main problem is that my relocation has downgraded my computer facilities and playing-time access drastically. I suspect you guys have forgotten what it's like to set the game to low graphics and the interturn still takes 1-3 minutes. Every time I move a worker he breakdances across the monitor at astronaut-on-a-spacewalk speed.

In short, I need to be able to negotiate a huge chunk of access time to play my turnset.

The computer I use the rest of the day is on campus and while I can visit the forum, alas...I can't load up the game.
So, little time to actually play Civ but plenty of access to the Forums? Sounds like LC is an ideal volunteer for writing our mid-game spoiler

So, little time to actually play Civ but plenty of access to the Forums? Sounds like LC is an ideal volunteer for writing our mid-game spoiler

I second that proposal

I second that proposal

I "third" it... :)

So, little time to actually play Civ but plenty of access to the Forums? Sounds like LC is an ideal volunteer for writing our mid-game spoiler
I second that proposal
I "third" it... :)
Looks like you've been stitched up LC (again)

Looks like you've been stitched up LC (again)Luckily for me, I've just completed the 137th and final module in my Scandanavian Pig Roast culinary class. I hope you're looking forward to some vitriolic vittuals.

No enemies will be spared and no opportunities will be wastered. - General Patton

Btw, no pictures this time. Just scathing text.

Btw, no pictures this time. Just scathing text.
I think a pic of 'Kill'em all' scrawled over our continent is necessary to give a general idea of our strategy. If you want I will dig out a screenshot

I think a pic of 'Kill'em all' scrawled over our continent is necessary to give a general idea of our strategy. If you want I will dig out a screenshotAny screenshots are welcome. If they're not already in the thread, I won't have access to the older ones anymore.

Posted the save:

played 13 turns
NS taken (6 turns revolt), 3GD built and NS returned to G. Unfortunately he still manged to build a couple of coal plants prior to 3GD
lots of fighting with G (including a comedy mediaeval moment when our spearman beat a G rifle....). Should push his unit maintenance down a bit but has pushed his WW up (battles around on NS were on ~50% Viking land - in retrospect Hyderabad would have been a better choice as 100% G
Brief unit building frenzy from G (~3 turns) - but newest builds are infrastructure again.
G has just finished Industrialism. His new access to aluminium has reduced the Appollo build in BC to 8 turns. Next research is Plastics (14 turns at 70%)
Brennus is cautious with G (no sign of mutual struggle plus mod decreasing yet....). I gave Brennus Radio and Fascism but no trades yet. Now G has Industrialism, there are more trades we should consider (i.e. with W)
154394
We built Pentagon in Edirne
G built Broadway in Delhi
our navy rocks!

Excellent turnset, BP!!! So the 3GD worked out as planned. NExt SE...

Posted the save:

played 13 turns
NS taken (6 turns revolt), 3GD built and NS returned to G. Unfortunately he still manged to build a couple of coal plants prior to 3GD
lots of fighting with G (including a comedy mediaeval moment when our spearman beat a G rifle....). Should push his unit maintenance down a bit but has pushed his WW up (battles around on NS were on ~50% Viking land - in retrospect Hyderabad would have been a better choice as 100% G
Brief unit building frenzy from G (~3 turns) - but newest builds are infrastructure again.
G has just finished Industrialism. His new access to aluminium has reduced the Appollo build in BC to 8 turns. Next research is Plastics (14 turns at 70%)
Brennus is cautious with G (no sign of mutual struggle plus mod decreasing yet....). I gave Brennus Radio and Fascism but no trades yet. Now G has Industrialism, there are more trades we should consider (i.e. with W)
154394
We built Pentagon in Edirne
G built Broadway in Delhi
our navy rocks!


Great play, BP! Good to see that the smash-n-build actually worked! :goodjob:

How much did it cost to rush the 3GD?

Who is next?

3GD cost ~13500 gold (the GE gave ~1100 hammers).

I think the roster is: LC>Erkon>Gnejs - but this is dependent on LC's PC access time and Erkon's internet connection

3GD cost ~13500 gold (the GE gave ~1100 hammers).

I think the roster is: LC>Erkon>Gnejs - but this is dependent on LC's PC access time and Erkon's internet connection

Great play! :goodjob:

I've got internet connection so I can play.

3GD cost ~13500 gold (the GE gave ~1100 hammers).

~1500 hammers for 13500 gold then. A 3000 hammer SE would then be 27000 gold, but I assume we get a discount for the Aluminium.
I think the roster is: LC>Erkon>Gnejs - but this is dependent on LC's PC access time and Erkon's internet connection

Don't forget that JERFit should jump in once he finishes his school work.

The next GP in Edirne is due to pop in 13 turns - hopefully at about the same time as we get Satellites and Robotics - so that should give us a discount on the SE (if it is a GE....)

I'm not sure the Aluminium discount helps for cash rushes.

If we built the SE in Ning-His, we would get the Kremlin bonus still

"Got it." I'll play a turnset tonight. NOt sure how many turns that will end up being, but no biggie.

Goals:
See if we can get some trades with G.
I may experiment with gifting someone gold for trades with G, even if that only means they'll buy a tech from him (need to look at the save carefully to see if this is appropriate right now. ALso hope that G will use it to tech faster, not upgrade units...;)).
Tech toward SE unless I need to tech for G first.
Keep all uranium, oil tiles pillaged.
No point in doing any MM...:aargh: :aargh: :aargh: j/k
Anything else?

The next GP in Edirne is due to pop in 13 turns - hopefully at about the same time as we get Satellites and Robotics - so that should give us a discount on the SE (if it is a GE....)

I'm not sure the Aluminium discount helps for cash rushes. Worldbuilder...the chart only says "double speed" with aluminum, not double production speed, so I don't know.

If we built the SE in Ning-His, we would get the Kremlin bonus still That's evil clever. :goodjob: Doubt I'll get that far...:lol:

Btw, have we built Apollo yet? Just a minor detail, but SE requires space race victroy enabled, which it is, of course, but does it happen to require Apollo too...:blush:. I don't feel like having another surprise...

Btw, have we built Apollo yet? Just a minor detail, but SE requires space race victroy enabled, which it is, of course, but does it happen to require Apollo too...:blush:. I don't feel like having another surprise...
No we haven't. Clearly if we can build SE without it it is a waste of hammers. OTOH.......

We could knock it out in Edirne in less than 20 turns

The disadvantage of Ning-His is that it is still culturally ours - which means more WW for G.

Planning to buy R+R and Hollywood in a city we gift to W and possibly gifting G the Eiffel tower would also be good.

WB test on SE

Aluminum does not increase the value of the GE
Kremlin does increase the value of the cash-rush (cheaper for us with K)


Apollo Program is not required for SE
Satelites are required for SE
I'm off to the races. Wish me luck.

Good luck, LC!

Thanks, guys.

10 turns. Gandhi traded Indust to Washington for Radio. Brennus seems to not want to trade anything to G. I gave everyone COmputers, so Brennus could only trade it to G but no go. G will finish Plastics in a few turns and hopefully will trade it to Wash for COmptuers.

I forgot abou tthe Oil in the jungle so G was building some stuff for about 4 turns. Now re-pillaged.

Apollo is done and G is building Casings in Delhi.

We can build SE from Murcia to Kerkouane which means from Bombay to Hyderblabla.

I gave Brennus 1000 bucks to see if that would help. IT vanished into thin air. THen I gave him 500 more. Vanished... lol

Btw, if we have our ships in G's territory, he can't use adjacent tiles so that starves his people.

MM scientists to merchants when 0% research and vice versa is worth about 80gold per turn.

Not sure why you guys were building marines, but I put them down there across from Stone Island.

Turn 451, 1841 AD: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in Camulodunum. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 451, 1841 AD: The borders of Hippo have expanded!

Turn 452, 1842 AD: Gaziantep celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!

Turn 453, 1843 AD: Gaziantep celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!

Turn 454, 1844 AD: You have discovered Robotics!
Turn 454, 1844 AD: You have constructed a Library in New York. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 454, 1844 AD: The borders of Hadrumetum have expanded!
Turn 454, 1844 AD: Hannibal adopts Representation!
Turn 454, 1844 AD: Hannibal adopts Free Market!
Turn 454, 1844 AD: A Carthaginian revolt has taken place in Hippo!

Turn 455, 1845 AD: Verlamion celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 455, 1845 AD: The borders of Vienne have expanded!
Turn 455, 1845 AD: The borders of Thapsus have expanded!
Turn 455, 1845 AD: Brennus adopts Police State!
Turn 455, 1845 AD: Brennus adopts Free Market!

Turn 456, 1846 AD: The borders of Boston have expanded!
Turn 456, 1846 AD: Verlamion celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 456, 1846 AD: The borders of Carthage have expanded!
Turn 456, 1846 AD: The borders of Kerkouane have expanded!
Turn 456, 1846 AD: Brennus has renounced the protection of Hannibal and is once again a free state.

Turn 457, 1847 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Istanbul. Work has now begun on a Bank.

Turn 458, 1848 AD: Your Tank has destroyed a Fast Worker!
Turn 458, 1848 AD: You have discovered Satellites!
Turn 458, 1848 AD: You have constructed a University in Bursa. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 458, 1848 AD: Gandhi has completed Apollo Program!

Turn 459, 1849 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Atlanta!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: You have plundered 7? from the Well!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Destroyer (33.00) vs Gandhi's Transport (19.20)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 96.6%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Transport is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Transport is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Destroyer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Destroyer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Transport is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Transport is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Destroyer has defeated Gandhi's Transport!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Your Destroyer has destroyed a Transport!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: The borders of Atlanta have expanded!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: The borders of Sicca have expanded!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Artillery (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Tank (30.80)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 3.5%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (7 Units)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (10/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 15 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Artillery has defeated Murky Waters's Tank!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: While defending, your Tank was destroyed by a Indian Artillery!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cannon (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Tank (28.02)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cannon is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cannon is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 13 (78/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cannon is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cannon is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank has defeated Gandhi's Cannon!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: While defending, your Tank has killed a Indian Cannon!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Tank (24.02)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 33.0%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (62/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (46/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (30/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (14/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry has defeated Murky Waters's Tank!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: While defending, your Tank was destroyed by a Indian Cavalry!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry (16.50) vs Murky Waters's Tank (23.52)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 18.9%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Cavalry is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: A Cavalry has withdrawn from combat with your Tank!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry (22.00) vs Murky Waters's Tank (23.52)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 46.1%
Turn 459, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 18 (66/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 18 (48/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 18 (30/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 18 (12/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Infantry has defeated Murky Waters's Tank!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: While defending, your Tank was destroyed by a Indian Infantry!
Turn 459, 1849 AD: A Viking revolt has taken place in Brennus Loves G!

Turn 460, 1850 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Atlanta!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship (52.00) vs Gandhi's Battleship (52.00)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 460, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Battleship is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Battleship is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Battleship is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Battleship is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Battleship is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Murky Waters's Battleship has defeated Gandhi's Battleship!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Your Battleship has destroyed a Battleship!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Edirne celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: The borders of Samsun have expanded!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: The borders of Hippo have expanded!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Artillery (13.32) vs Murky Waters's Tank (30.80)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 460, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (7 Units)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 27 (47/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 27 (20/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Artillery is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 460, 1850 AD: Murky Waters's Tank has defeated Gandhi's Artillery!
Turn 460, 1850 AD: While defending, your Tank has killed a Indian Artillery!

Turn 461, 1851 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Atlanta!
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Murky Waters's Tank (30.80) vs Gandhi's Rifleman (16.80)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Combat Odds: 98.7%
Turn 461, 1851 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Gandhi's Rifleman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Gandhi's Rifleman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Murky Waters's Tank is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Gandhi's Rifleman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Gandhi's Rifleman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Murky Waters's Tank has defeated Gandhi's Rifleman!
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Your Tank has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 461, 1851 AD: Your Spy has conducted sabotage near New Sarai!!!

10 turns. Gandhi traded Indust to Washington for Radio. Brennus seems to not want to trade anything to G. I gave everyone COmputers, so Brennus could only trade it to G but no go. G will finish Plastics in a few turns and hopefully will trade it to Wash for COmptuers. we should check in the xml or Ori's table that Brennus actually will tech trade at cautious

I forgot abou tthe Oil in the jungle so G was building some stuff for about 4 turns. Fool! Clearly concentrating too much on the MM! Now re-pillaged.

Apollo is done and G is building Casings in Delhi. Excellent

We can build SE from Murcia to Kerkouane which means from Bombay to Hyderblabla. Hyderblabla sounds a good bet as it has little production or commerce potential

I gave Brennus 1000 bucks to see if that would help. IT vanished into thin air. THen I gave him 500 more. Vanished... lol Lets not do that anymore....

Btw, if we have our ships in G's territory, he can't use adjacent tiles so that starves his people.

MM scientists to merchants when 0% research and vice versa is worth about 80gold per turn. Are you certain? I can't see why as the :gold: or :science: from specialists is independent of the research slider

Not sure why you guys were building marines, but I put them down there across from Stone Island. I wasn't sure if we could still make marines once we got Plastics, and figured a few more amphibious troops would be useful. Marines used to upgrade to (amphib) Mech Inf - but I'm not sure if that is still the case. EDIT: Ok - I've checked the save. We can still make marines and they no longer upgrade to Mech Inf.

Great turnset. Looks like G's economy is now cooking. Where were your tank battles with G?
EDIT: Looks like G is building units again. I wonder if the tank in G-land on his oil is causing that?

I landed some tanks to pillage the oil and got ambushed. Plus I used my tanks to pillage the N oil. BUt mainly I think the availability of oil got him going a bit there. YOu could disband it or send it toward Hyder... and see if it ever arrives... ;)

I think Hyder... is also good because it's his land, as you pointed out earlier, so no WW except when he recaptures it. I suppose we should go ahead and do that immediately.

I suppose the better yield from the specialists has to do with the multipliers. In any case, take a look and you'll see it's true. On the turn I switched to 0% research, I cycled through the cities switching from scientists to merchants, and just counted the gold as it increased. SOmething like 78:gold:. Same with the Scientists on TUrn zero, but I didn't count it, just watched it increase.

Brennus may not be trading because of wbyabta also.

I suppose the better yield from the specialists has to do with the multipliers. In any case, take a look and you'll see it's true. On the turn I switched to 0% research, I cycled through the cities switching from scientists to merchants, and just counted the gold as it increased. SOmething like 78:gold:. Same with the Scientists on TUrn zero, but I didn't count it, just watched it increase.

Of course the gold will increase if you employ more merchants. But the research will decrease by a corresponding amount

Of course the gold will increase if you employ more merchants. But the research will decrease by a corresponding amount. Yeah, I see what you're saying.But at 100% research, you get more beakers with scientists than with merchants (whose coins are getting turned into beakers). Or so it seemed to me. WHo knows, maybe I was seeing things.

I think Hyder... is also good because it's his land, as you pointed out earlier, so no WW except when he recaptures it. I suppose we should go ahead and do that immediately.
I'm not so sure. I think it would be better to build and gift R+R city to Wash with our current money. W should trade with both us and G - resulting in +1 happy for G (which will help with WW) and for us. We should then save up to be able to cash rush SE and Eiffel tower (2 extra happies for G) at the save time for G. This will cost ~ 34000 gold (assuming we have a GE) = 17 turns of 0% research

At present the limiting factor for a G space launch is G's research rate - not his production speed to build expensive SS parts. Increasing G's happiness will improve his commerce and research rate.

But at 100% research, you get more beakers with scientists than with merchants (whose coins are getting turned into beakers). Or so it seemed to me. WHo knows, maybe I was seeing things.
Merchants generate :gold: not :commerce:.

Only :commerce: gets turned into beakers

I'm not so sure. I think it would be better to build and gift R+R city to Wash with our current money. W should trade with both us and G - resulting in +1 happy for G (which will help with WW) and for us. We should then save up to be able to cash rush SE and Eiffel tower (2 extra happies for G) at the save time for G. This will cost ~ 34000 gold (assuming we have a GE) = 17 turns of 0% research

At present the limiting factor for a G space launch is G's research rate - not his production speed to build expensive SS parts. Increasing G's happiness will improve his commerce and research rate.Incidentally, if that's why you built that settler, I placed him up in the far N where that Brennus city once was.

ANother idea for gifting G SE, especially if we'r not in any hurry, is to put it in W's city N of Besh. It would be in resistance less, it wouldn't cost G any cities/infrastructure/commerce, and I assume G would want to capture like any other city on that continent.

Merchants generate :gold: not :commerce:.

Only :commerce: gets turned into beakersWell, I need to check the save and play around with it. Seeing is believing. Liar

Incidentally, if that's why you built that settler, I placed him up in the far N where that Brennus city once was. Sounds an ideal site for W

ANother idea for gifting G SE, especially if we'r not in any hurry, is to put it in W's city N of Besh. It would be in resistance less, it wouldn't cost G any cities/infrastructure/commerce, and I assume G would want to capture like any other city on that continent.
That sounds a very good idea (as long as G doesn't give the city back to W....). It would also enable us to capture Chicago, which would enable Boston to become a viable city

Who is up next? Me? Or will LC / BP play more turns?

You are next. We have been waiting....

Still waiting... haven't you finished WOTM10 yet? tsk tsk

10 turns. Gandhi traded Indust to Washington for Radio. Brennus seems to not want to trade anything to G. I gave everyone COmputers, so Brennus could only trade it to G but no go. G will finish Plastics in a few turns and hopefully will trade it to Wash for COmptuers.

I forgot abou tthe Oil in the jungle so G was building some stuff for about 4 turns. Now re-pillaged.

Apollo is done and G is building Casings in Delhi.

We can build SE from Murcia to Kerkouane which means from Bombay to Hyderblabla.

I gave Brennus 1000 bucks to see if that would help. IT vanished into thin air. THen I gave him 500 more. Vanished... lol

Btw, if we have our ships in G's territory, he can't use adjacent tiles so that starves his people.

MM scientists to merchants when 0% research and vice versa is worth about 80gold per turn.

Not sure why you guys were building marines, but I put them down there across from Stone Island.



Great play, LC!

That sounds a very good idea (as long as G doesn't give the city back to W....). It would also enable us to capture Chicago, which would enable Boston to become a viable city

Building the SE in a W city on G's continent sounds like an excellent idea. But I would advise against capturing Chicago. The last thing we want is for W to become a vassal to G - that would remove the best way of trading techs to G that we have.
If he keeps Chicago he will be less likely to vassalize, this is more important than getting a few more tiles in Boston.

Building the SE in a W city on G's continent sounds like an excellent idea. But I would advise against capturing Chicago. The last thing we want is for W to become a vassal to G - that would remove the best way of trading techs to G that we have.
If he keeps Chicago he will be less likely to vassalize, this is more important than getting a few more tiles in Boston.Very importatnt point. In fact, it's probably a good reason to not DoW W for SE either. At least not in the next few turns, because in just a few turns G will finish Plastics (or whatever it is) and ought to be able to trade for Computers. SO let's not change anything diplomatically till then.

Got it.

I'll start in playing in 10 minutes. I plan to capture Hyderabad and build SE and other wonders there.

Turn 0 update: a bit MM (what a mess! it is now)
I didn't dare to change all the stupid builds because you would then all call me stupid :lol:
I delay the attack on Hyd since I want to spy on it first. I also move away ships from G. borders to reduce the perceived threat (don't know if there is any effect of this?)

Turn 1 update
GE spawned
G. is researching at 80% but he's building units.
Hyderabad doesn't produce any space parts, so I will capture now.

EDIT: darn. Hyderabad will not connect to our trade network due to cultural pressure from city to the south. No aluminium. No iron. We may have to build culture a while or capture south city or bite the sour apple.

EDIT2: Is there a point why Stone Island is undefended? Do we want G. to capture or shall we gift it to H?

Could we quickly build/trade for FLight and build (EDIT: Cash rush) an airport?

It will take us 5 turns to research Flight. H. still has 33 turns to MM so we don't have any hope to trade for it. The 5 turns will cost us +10k gold.

Turn 1 update
GE spawned
G. is researching at 80% but he's building units.
Hyderabad doesn't produce any space parts, so I will capture now.

EDIT: darn. Hyderabad will not connect to our trade network due to cultural pressure from city to the south. No aluminium. No iron. We may have to build culture a while or capture south city or bite the sour apple.

EDIT2: Is there a point why Stone Island is undefended? Do we want G. to capture or shall we gift it to H?
Why have you attacked H'bad so soon? We don't have the money for SE and ET yet?
Samarqand is a rather podunk city too - if you capture it will it relieve the cultural pressure on H'bad and open up the trade routes. However, remember iron and aluminium will not reduce the USuff cash rush cost (but I presume will increase the GE hammers we get....?)

However, remember iron and aluminium will not reduce the USuff cash rush cost (but I presume will increase the GE hammers we get....?)
D'oh!

It doesn't matter anyway. Aluminum doesn't change the cash rush value and doesn't change the GE value. (it only affect the hammers/per turn from city production. BIg deal.)ANyone calling me a liar?BUILD THE SE and stop complicating, Erkon. You're doing fine...

Why have you attacked H'bad so soon? We don't have the money for SE and ET yet?
...

Yeah, I agree it was stupid but I got clear directives from the Peanut Gallery:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5564779&postcount=2653

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5564569&postcount=2650

:p

However, remember iron and aluminium will not reduce the USuff cash rush cost (but I presume will increase the GE hammers we get....?)

Are you really sure of this? I do think the cost is cheapened, something like 33%...

Yeah, I agree it was stupid but I got clear directives from the Peanut Gallery:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5564779&postcount=2653

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5564569&postcount=2650

:p

I'm not so sure. I think it would be better to build and gift R+R city to Wash with our current money. W should trade with both us and G - resulting in +1 happy for G (which will help with WW) and for us. We should then save up to be able to cash rush SE and Eiffel tower (2 extra happies for G) at the save time for G. This will cost ~ 34000 gold (assuming we have a GE) = 17 turns of 0% research

At present the limiting factor for a G space launch is G's research rate - not his production speed to build expensive SS parts. Increasing G's happiness will improve his commerce and research rate.

How much clearer would you like? ;)

Are you really sure of this? I do think the cost is cheapened, something like 33%...
I *think* so. It should be easy to test. Start an ET build in 1 of our cities (not Seville as it is prebuilt there...), look at the USuff cost. Then change to a Hollywood build and look at the USuff cost. Is the cost per hammer for ET less than the cost / hammer for Hollywood?

Turn 4 update

Hollywood city founded. Buy Hollywood on turn zero would cost 20250 gold => 13.5 gold / hammer. At turn one it costs 13464 for 1496 hammers => 9 hammers. The 50% penalty at turn zero is identical to the penalty for ordinary buildings.

I will check ET when possible.

The SE will cost 54000 at turn zero in Hyderabad. There's 8 turns resistance (5 left), and we want one turn production, so the SE can be rushed on turn 10.

Good news! G. traded Plastics to Mehmed for Computers! (At least it seams so to me). He's one turn from fascism. We can gift satellites to Washington, then he can trade it for Plastics to G. Yes?

The SE will cost 54000 at turn zero in Hyderabad. There's 8 turns resistance (5 left), and we want one turn production, so the SE can be rushed on turn 10
If you use the GE, then *I think* you will be able to cash rush the remainder at 9 gold per hammer - ie you lose the 50% penalty as there is some production towards the build from the GE. (At least this is how it seemed with the 3GD - the turn 1 cost was virtually the same as the turn 0 post-GE cost)

Good news! G. traded Plastics to Mehmed for Computers! (At least it seams so to me). He's one turn from fascism. We can gift satellites to Washington, then he can trade it for Plastics to G. Yes?Hopefully. Remember to gift satellites to at least 1 other AI so W doesn't th