Might the GG not be better served building a Mil Acad or being a Mil Instr in Vienne (or similar..)?

He, he, one step ahead!? So, should we press on towards Isabella after Brennus? What then is our ultimate goal (apart from loosing :lol: )? To speed up the general tech pace?

It's a dilemma as usual (short term vs long term). I've experience how superior a healer unit is during an offensive. Such a unit will save lots of turns. And since it can move fast, it can stay with the injured, and then move to the next injured stack. I don't know if it will be worth it, since I don't know what will happen later in the game ;)

OTOH, we will get another one when the Brennus crousade is over.

I'm working on a bit map proposal and I'l post it asap. This is our future homeland. We want to be smart about it.

I'm sorry but I don't understand if this was an acknowledgement or not:confused:I don't insist on this at all, but it's an idea. The new Vienne (West) has 20+ hammers. The new Vienne E is a nice city, but optional.

The two desert cities in South the become one much more useful city, with less desert but this kills a nice village.

THe Western city that has grabbed the silk has been moved 1 tile to the East. I'm assuming the fogged tile in its original location is not providing any food, since Brennus has two farms there and the city is only size 8. EDIT: It picks up 1 desert tile, but also gains a plains/hill.

The short-term negative is building 4 settlers to do this. The long-term benefit is reducing two lousy desert cities to one and using that central grassland for two cities instead of one.

EDIT: Note that 3 of the four new cities have 2 food resources each (the W city has none, as before presumably, but it has 4 irrigatable grass tiles).

I don't insist on this at all, but it's an idea. The new Vienne (West) has 20+ hammers. The new Vienne E is a nice city, but optional.

The two desert cities in South the become one much more useful city, with less desert but this kills a nice village.

THe Western city that has grabbed the silk has been moved 1 tile to the East. I'm assuming the fogged tile in its original location is not providing any food, since Brennus has two farms there and the city is only size 8.

The short-term negative is building 4 settlers to do this. The long-term benefit is reducing two lousy desert cities to one and using that central grassland for two cities instead of one.
Certainly a very interesting thought - those city locations you have chosen do look very good. Remeber tho' we will also lose whatever improvements Brennus has built if we raze all his cities. Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots.......:nya: )

Certainly a very interesting thought - those city locations you have chosen do look very good. Remeber tho' we will also lose whatever improvements Brennus has built if we raze all his cities. Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots.......:nya: )Yes, and we lose the population. I'm seeing:
Cumulodunum: lh, granary
Tolosa: granary
Vienne: CH, granary
Verlania: lh, granary
So it looks to me like we'd be losing at most some combination of 3 buildings in 4 cities.

How about keeping all the current cities, then build Large-Capital (aka as LC) where the pink/magenta/whatevercolor is located? We then use LC for production, while the other cites are used for commerce?

Although it is an excellent map, I'm not afraid of overlapping cities.

He, he, one step ahead!? So, should we press on towards Isabella after Brennus? What then is our ultimate goal (apart from loosing :lol: )? To speed up the general tech pace?

It's a dilemma as usual (short term vs long term). I've experience how superior a healer unit is during an offensive. Such a unit will save lots of turns. And since it can move fast, it can stay with the injured, and then move to the next injured stack. I don't know if it will be worth it, since I don't know what will happen later in the game ;) Judging from Gnejs' plan, he'll need a lot of healers...if any of his units survive, that is.I think we want to definitely go on toward Isabella. Madrid is a great site for either our capital or FP. We want to have a powerful economy=Brennus+Isabella.

Then we help Washington slice and dice Mehmed...so that Washington also has a killer economy.

I think we want to definitely go on toward Isabella. Madrid is a great site for either our capital or FP. We want to have a powerful economy=Brennus+Isabella.

Then we help Washington slice and dice Mehmed...so that Washington also has a killer economy.

I like, I like.

How about keeping all the current cities, then build Large-Capital (aka as LC) where the pink/magenta/whatevercolor is located? We then use LC for production, while the other cites are used for commerce?

Although it is an excellent map, I'm not afraid of overlapping cities.That looks like this:

What that does is make those 4 cities share 5 food resources, whereas before I had 3 cities @2 each.

Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots.......:nya: )Well, I think if we're going to do this, then Gnejs should attack from the W, SW, and N, not from the S/SE. Then the gap would appear later and by then we be in position to simply move furhter SE into Isa Land, so she wouldn't be doing anything with her settler other than offering us worker-sacrifices...

EDIT: In other words, Gnejs' goal would be to go for those 4 Western cities and Bibracte. WHich creates a nice loop, ending up with our troops in the SE.

EDIT2: Furthermore, the 4 W cities and Bibracte are much closer together, so the troops don't need to move so much between battles. Much cleaner plan for a turnset.

EDIT3: And since you're razing everything but Gergovia and Bibracte, you don't have to leave units behind to defend.

That looks like this:

I like this better. And it's simpler.

I also see the need for a medic III unit, usually very handy to have during an invasion like this. Will put the GG on this unless you object...As an alternative to Medic III, how about taking a melee unit from MW (7xp + combat I), and promoting to combat III, Medic I/II, and March?!?

Does the March promotion affect only that unit or all units moving in the same stack?

I like this better. And it's simpler.BUt don't forget, after Gnejs comes JERFit, our expert city builder, renowned far and wide for choosing the location for GC that is easier for G to capture (hopefully).

Raze Bagacum, Durocortorum, Isca. Keep the rest.

The caravel to the west is on the way to spy on Brennus coastal cities.

These leaves out a big chunk of his most fertile soil in the mid-section.

I'm sorry but I don't understand if this was an acknowledgement or not:confused:Sorry, Erkon, now I get what you were asking. Yes, I was assuming we razed the cities you suggested.

BUt don't forget, after Gnejs comes JERFit, our expert city builder, renowned far and wide for choosing the location for GC that is easier for G to capture (hopefully).
Yes, but hopefully G won't be capturing any cities on our new continent.... ;)

As an alternative to Medic III, how about taking a melee unit from MW (7xp + combat I), and promoting to combat III, Medic I/II, and March?!?

Ideally, our super medic will be a non-combatant

That looks like this:
If we do that, then we should at least raze Vienne and rebuild it 2E

Sorry, Erkon, now I get what you were asking. Yes, I was assuming we razed the cities you suggested.

:lol: Yeah, the point was that the caravel should arrive to the cities *before* they're attacked :lol:

Does the March promotion affect only that unit or all units moving in the same stack? It is only that unit - and is therefore a fairly useless promotion (except when combining a stach of Mech Inf with a Medic)

This (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954) is a useful thread on the mechanics of unit healing.

Yes, but hopefully G won't be capturing any cities on our new continent.... ;)
Now, that would be something! To do that, he must be really, REALLY angry :D
If we do that, then we should at least raze Vienne and rebuild it 2E

How about keeping Vienne and build New Vienne 4E? We will then get the fish.

How about keeping Vienne and build New Vienne 4E? We will then get the fish.4E is an attraction location.

What was really driving my dot map was those two ugly desert cities in the SE. Doubling up Vienne was just looking for a nice hammer location for our HE.

EDIT: I can't find another location that even goes over 20h/t all the way down to Mehmed. Vienne West is awesome. Almost as good BC.

Good luck, Gnejs! I vote for your decision, whatever it may be...

4E is an attraction location.

What was really driving my dot map was those two ugly desert cities in the SE. Doubling up Vienne was just looking for a nice hammer location for our HE.

The two ugly desert cities are not that bad from a commerce point of view. Not perfect, but not bad either. They will pay for themselves at least.

EDIT: I definately agree on Vienne West. And I wish Gnejs good luck. You now have lots of opinions to ignore! :lol:

Sorry folks...

... some bad news here. :(

Sorry folks...

... some bad news here. :(

Did you retire? :lol:

Did you retire? :lol:

Worse!











I finished my WOTM7 game instead of playing this one. :D

I figured you people would come up with totally opposite strategies if you only got some spare time. And it appears I was right... :)


So, the common opinion is that Brennus' cities are poorly placed? But no consensus on where they should be and what cities to raze/rebuild? Sigh, do I have to decide all this as well...

I finished my WOTM7 game instead of playing this one. :D I think BP would agree that you are now a fully qualified

WASTER!!!I have taken a breath of fresh air to think this over and these are what I think are the relevant factors in our decisio:

Overall game speed
Quickly spreading G's religion to at least one city in BrennusLand and spreading Brennus' religion to CC, MW and any other cities on the Old Land if possible.
Leaving GandhiLand entirely, asap
With this in mind, I think Erkon is right. We keep the poorly placed cities we want (raze those really lousy cities that Erkon suggested.

The only possible exception might be to raze Vienne because Vienne W is really a nice hammer city. I'm not keen on Erkon's idea to keep Vienne if we decide to build Vienne West, but I do find Vienne and 4E Vienne East acceptable.

Madrid is an awesome commerce city (did anyone notice she has built cottages onhers hills!!!).

I think the military operations should start with Varmillion Verlanion to the SW and proceed clockwise around to Bibracte. Then onward and down around to Isabella.

I have taken a breath of fresh air to think this over and these are what I think are the relevant factors in our decisio:

Overall game speed
Quickly spreading G's religion to at least one city in BrennusLand and spreading Brennus' religion to CC, MW and any other cities on the Old Land if possible.
Leaving GandhiLand entirely, asap
With this in mind, I think Erkon is right. We keep the poorly placed cities we want (raze those really lousy cities that Erkon suggested.

The only possible exception might be to raze Vienne because Vienne W is really a nice hammer city. I'm not keen on Erkon's idea to keep Vienne if we decide to build Vienne West, but I do find Vienne and 4E Vienne East acceptable.

Madrid is an awesome commerce city (did anyone notice she has built cottages onhers hills!!!).

I think the military operations should start with Varmillion Verlanion to the SW and proceed clockwise around to Bibracte. Then onward and down around to Isabella.


Having looked at the dotmaps for a while, I agree that we should avoid razing/resettling as much as possible. Razing hopeless cities is ok, but razing good cities just to get better production when resettling does not seem very useful. Besides, we won't be building any spaceship parts, nor any wonders. Our focus should be on commerce and research, so cottage spamming rather than mining. I think current cities + 4E Vienne would serve us fine.

Even in a regular game, I am not sure it would be worth it. Any city that we raze costs us the hammers of the remaining buildings (say 100-200h) + the cost of a settler (120 h) + lost whipping opportunity (say 10 pop = 440h) = about 700 hammers. Plus a delay before resettling, time lost not working cottages etc. It would have to be a really huge production increase to offset this.

... I think current cities + 4E Vienne would serve us fine...

I like a city 3W of Vienne. We can build NE there, and build units. All other cities can focus on research.

I like a city 3W of Vienne. We can build NE there, and build units. All other cities can focus on research.

Maybe, but by the time we have it up and running we will have finished conquering anyway. :p

Perhaps a coastal city would be better, so we can build and maintain a strong navy.

I like a city 3W of Vienne. We can build NE there, and build units. All other cities can focus on research.In other words, leave Vienne and build 2 new cities: 3W and 4E?

EDIT: Eventually, we could gift Vienne to someone and then raze it if we choose. Best of both worlds--leave the cities as they stand, build two better ones, eventually dump the dead wood in between that's slowing down our Viking juggernaut?

Or plant GK in Vienne if we're fast enough...

Maybe, but by the time we have it up and running we will have finished conquering anyway. :p We'll still need our Modern Armour to police our new continent.

Perhaps a coastal city would be better, so we can build and maintain a strong navy.Don't have the save in front of me, but I think there will be a hammer-rich coastal city Isabella will donate to our cause. Do you mean better for our HE? So we can build awesome battleships and make Hannibal's little boaties go SPLAT! :nospam: SPLAT! :nospam: when they get naughty?

Gnejs, I'm a wee bit concerned you still haven't found the inner builder in you...

EDIT: Anyway, it sounds like we're agreed on keeping/razing the cities Erkon originally porposed. Whether we add 1 or 2 cities in the aftermath is not particularly relevant to Gnejs' turnset. Especially since he hasn't suggested we build a settler in at least 6 weeks...

EDIT: Eventually, we could gift Vienne to someone and then raze it if we choose. Best of both worlds--leave the cities as they stand, build two better ones, eventually dump the dead wood in between that's slowing down our Viking juggernaut?We can't raze a city that has any Viking culture - ie has accumulated any culture points while we own the city. Can't see the save but I assume Vienne has religion - which means it will start accumulating culture immediately (or as soon as it is out of resistance). So if we are going to gift it we need to do it the turn we capture it (to Isa)

We can't raze a city that has any Viking culture - ie has accumulated any culture points while we own the city. Can't see the save but I assume Vienne has religion - which means it will start accumulating culture immediately (or as soon as it is out of resistance). So if we are going to gift it we need to do it the turn we capture it (to Isa)I suppose that's also in the Differences between Warlords and Vanilla Write-up? :crazyeye: Pedantic nerd...why you always spoiling my party?

Well, so it's now or never on Vienne. But Gnejs won't get that far anyway, so we'll leave that up to JERFit.

Don't have the save in front of me, but I think there will be a hammer-rich coastal city Isabella will donate to our cause. Do you mean better for our HE? So we can build awesome battleships and make Hannibal's little boaties go SPLAT! :nospam: SPLAT! :nospam: when they get naughty?

Gnejs, I'm a wee bit concerned you still haven't found the inner builder in you...

EDIT: Anyway, it sounds like we're agreed on keeping/razing the cities Erkon originally porposed. Whether we add 1 or 2 cities in the aftermath is not particularly relevant to Gnejs' turnset. Especially since he hasn't suggested we build a settler in at least 6 weeks...

True. Btw, I can't even remember any game where I built more than 2 settlers in total. Wonder if I have ever done that? :)

I suppose that's also in the Differences between Warlords and Vanilla Write-up? :crazyeye: Pedantic nerd...why you always spoiling my party?

Well, so it's now or never on Vienne. But Gnejs won't get that far anyway, so we'll leave that up to JERFit.

No I won't, I'm going to be leaving for about a week, so I'll still be lurking like usual, but I won't have access to CIV. Skip me until then I guess...

So I guess BP will decide, :)

So I guess BP will decide, :)

Kill'em all!!!!!:aargh: :aargh: :aargh:

PS: Thanks for letting us know JERFit. Have a good trip - we'' try not to let G launch before you're back!

Pedantic nerd...why you always spoiling my party?

Someone has to rein you in from yet another of your wild flights of fancy :pat:

PS: I guess Gnejs is finishing off GOTM17 tonight......

Someone has to rein you in from yet another of your wild flights of fancy :pat:

PS: I guess Gnejs is finishing off GOTM17 tonight......

How long are we going to wait for that peace-monger? Where's his sense of duty?? Speaking of GOTM - Gnejs and I will compete for fastest conquest in WOTM8. Anyone up for the challenge?

Ok, the bad news first:

... I played 12 turns. :D

Highlights:
Turn 0: Peace with GK (might as well, since I didn't want him to do anything silly for 10 turns)
Turn 1: Finish Music, research to 0%. Extort 30 gold from Brennus. Declare on Brennus :lol:
Turn 2: Capture Camulodunum (has trading post+courthouse)
Turn 5: Capture Tolosa (granary)
Turn 7: Great Scientist born in Murky Waters. Decide to put him to sleep until you folks have made up your mind on how to use it. Academy in CC? Lightbulb Philo/education? Islam founded in Atlanta. Have some spare funds now so set research to 100% for Paper.
Turn 10: Paper finished, research to 0%. Captured Verlamion. Razed Bagacum.
Turn 12: Captured Bibcrate. Razed Durocortorum.

4 cities captured, 2 razed. Rock'n'Roll. :lol:

Big Pig, I leave a mess for you. There are units and boats everywhere. Some have moved, some haven't. Btw, there is a barb galley at Samarqand, so we will lose the fishing boats there. :(


Here is the full log (quite long...):

Lol, too long!
1. The text that you have entered is too long (34930 characters). Please shorten it to 30000 characters long.
See next post instead.

The log. (Does anybody bother to look at these anyway?)

Lol, it doesn't fit! :lol:

Ok, attaching instead. 151208

Couple of observations:

Gandhi hasn't made a move towards gold city. Stupid AI. I started moving the boats even further away, maybe that will help?

After Erkons mediocre performance, I managed to swing us up in score and power again. :p

It is probably time to gift one or two techs to Genghis. Gandhi seems to have enough techs to trade for Astronomy now.

Settler for stone island is ready and waiting in Samarqand. But we don't have any boats to ship him there... I planned to whip on in Samarqand, but switched to culture instead to bring in the stone.

Speaking of which, when we have stone I suggest that we build the University of Sankore in MW. Gandhi is going to get a lot of research out of that wonder.

Great play Gnejs! :goodjob:

...
4 cities captured, 2 razed. Rock'n'Roll. :lol:
...

That's better than I expected. I'm impressed. Perhaps you're not such a peace-mongerer after all. I stand corrected. :hatsoff:

But you failed with the only mission that counts: loosing GC!!! Waster.

Superlative performance, Gnejs! You took the 4-corners-of-the-earth army that Erkon left for you and put together a ragtag force capable of getting the job done. Got any good video of the action? :goodjob:
But you failed with the only mission that counts: loosing GC!!! Waster.Sounds like we need extraordinary measures. Since I still haven't managed to hack into GOTM headquarters, guess it's up to the Big Talk to figure out how to lose 6 cities in 1 turnset. Come to think of it, that might be right up his alley... :lol:

BTW, we're going to suffer WW from losing our cities, aren't we? That's cruel and unusual punishment... :cry: EDIT: I don't see anything to indicate that we'll suffer WW from losing our cities! Hooray!

EDIT2: ROTFLMAO!!! :rotfl: Having looked at the save...hey guys, get a load of Gnejs' first few wobbly-toddler steps as a builder: he's actually proposing to build an observatory, library and a courthouse (don't get me wrong--no hammers have actually been put into them...okay, I take that back...the CH already has 4 hammers!!! Way to go Gnejs!!!).

Mission Attractattack a.k.a. In Search of the Elusive G-Spot
(Gifting Cities to Gandhi the Waster)

Here are the ideas we've collected so far:

Quickly build 2 more cities, A and B. A has gems which G can see and seafood which we should Fishnet to attractattack. B is stupid, but he can see it. Get these cities to pop2 or fatcross asap so they won't auto-raze(?).
Send some warriors across the G-Canal to 1) boost G's confidence, 2) whip G into a military-building frenzy. Right now he's losing to us and the AI does keep a stat on whether he's won or lost more units to us. I don't actually know if it would help us, but our Power graph is now dwarfing his, and that may tend to drive the little G-Turtle into his shell.
Monitor G's naval movements and BE SURE to empty any cities he's passing by.
After transporting the warriors across, move our naval units away (as Gnejs suggested).
Erkon and Gnejs, you are excused from this brainstorming session, but you're welcome to join if you feel you can think out of the warmongering box. :lol:

Mission Attractattack a.k.a. In Search of the Elusive G-Spot
(Gifting Cities to Gandhi the Waster)

Here are the ideas we've collected so far:

Quickly build 2 more cities, A and B. A has gems which G can see and seafood which we should Fishnet to attractattack. B is stupid, but he can see it. Get these cities to pop2 or fatcross asap so they won't auto-raze(?).
Send some warriors across the G-Canal to 1) boost G's confidence, 2) whip G into a military-building frenzy. Right now he's losing to us and the AI does keep a stat on whether he's won or lost more units to us. I don't actually know if it would help us, but our Power graph is now dwarfing his, and that may tend to drive the little G-Turtle into his shell.
Monitor G's naval movements and BE SURE to empty any cities he's passing by.
After transporting the warriors across, move our naval units away (as Gnejs suggested).
Erkon and Gnejs, you are excused from this brainstorming session, but you're welcome to join if you feel you can think out of the warmongering box. :lol:

One more:

Make a trail of undefended workers/workboats that Gandhi can follow to our cities. We have plenty of workers to spare for this, just need to whip some workboats.

EDIT: And another, disband all our military units (once we have taken care of Isabella) to diminish our power rating.

Superlative performance, Gnejs! You took the 4-corners-of-the-earth army that Erkon left for you and put together a ragtag force capable of getting the job done. Got any good video of the action? :goodjob:
Sounds like we need extraordinary measures. Since I still haven't managed to hack into GOTM headquarters, guess it's up to the Big Talk to figure out how to lose 6 cities in 1 turnset. Come to think of it, that might be right up his alley... :lol:

BTW, we're going to suffer WW from losing our cities, aren't we? That's cruel and unusual punishment... :cry: EDIT: I don't see anything to indicate that we'll suffer WW from losing our cities! Hooray!

EDIT2: ROTFLMAO!!! :rotfl: Having looked at the save...hey guys, get a load of Gnejs' first few wobbly-toddler steps as a builder: he's actually proposing to build an observatory, library and a courthouse (don't get me wrong--no hammers have actually been put into them...okay, I take that back...the CH already has 4 hammers!!! Way to go Gnejs!!!).

You have obviously missed that I have completed at least one granary. :) Well, I seriously think we don't need to build another military unit anywhere for a long time now, at least until my next turnset. :)
Cities on old continent should therefore get buildings that don't get razed, hence observatories rather than libraries. Wonders are also good.
On new continent, we need science and commerce since this will drop once we lose the old cities.

You have obviously missed that I have completed at least one granary. :) Completing others' builds is not being a builder, but an obedient serf. Well, I seriously think we don't need to build another military unit anywhere for a long time now, at least until my next turnset. :)
Cities on old continent should therefore get buildings that don't get razed, hence observatories rather than libraries. Wonders are also good.
On new continent, we need science and commerce since this will drop once we lose the old cities.Right. We need to prioritize our goals anew and operate accordingly.

Priorities

On Gandhi-Land:

Whatever it takes to gift the waster our cities.
Build some Jewish missionaries.


On New Homeland:

Finish off Brennus and take Isa the Bella.
Build some Bibracte (Hindu?) missionaries asap for GC, CC etc.
Establish our financial/research might. (cottages, research and financial builds).
Maintain our military might.
Plant GK in Vienne???


We should agree on the purpose of each new city so we can plan their build sequences.

...
Plant GK in Vienne???
...

I'm not sure I understand? Do you want to gift Vienne to GK, then destroy attack his current city? Will he accept a city on Brennus-lands? :confused:

Else, I fully agree on your ideas.

I'm not sure I understand? Do you want to gift Vienne to GK, then destroy attack his current city? Will he accept a city on Brennus-lands? :confused:
It is another of his flights of fancy. The best recourse is to smile, say 'that's an interesting idea LC' and meanwhile we can decide on a realistic and workable plan :)

Great turnset Gnejs - apart from the micromanagement

I think our nets are safe from the barb galley thanks to the Great Wall

'Got it' - and I'm sorry to confess I've had a bit of a :smoke: moment with the save :(

I was looking at the various civic options (and wondering why Gnejs hadn't switched to OR...) and inadvertantly hit 'revolution' to switch to OR. Now we may well have decided to do that anyway, but maybe it would have been better to go with Bureaucracy at the same time? Anyway..... So then I decided, having started to play by making that civic change, I might as well sink the scraps of Brennus's navy that Gnejs had kindly left for me and sort out the resource trades that Gnejs had been too busy warring to look at, before saving. All went very well - except that I forgot to save the game before closing....:hammer2: :wallbash:

Clearly I'm having a Friday 13 day. I'll replay those trades, moves and the civic change - and hope AlanH doesn't disqualify me for sheer stupidity :blush:

I'm not sure I understand? Do you want to gift Vienne to GK, then destroy attack his current city? Will he accept a city on Brennus-lands? :confused: Sorry. For my lack of clarity and for BP being stuck in the muck... ;) AIs are often willing to accept anything when you've beaten them to a pulp...

Else, I fully agree on your ideas.

It is another of his flights of fancy. The best recourse is to smile, say 'that's an interesting idea LC' and meanwhile we can decide on a realistic and workable plan :)
As usual, I need to spell everything out in excruciating detail...

You tell me we can't raze a city that has one single iota of our culture, so naturally, being cerebrally serendipitous, my mind says, "Damn, that's it!" And the lightbulbs explode all around my little brainy-poo.

You see, it always annoys me that I can't peek inside the city to see which buildings have been razed, which survived BEFORE I decide to keep or raze it. So, since we have GK in our back pocket, we capture Vienne, peek inside, if we like it, we keep it, if not, we give it to GK before it comes out of resistance. Then we build the cities we want E and W and either destroy Vienne 10 turns laters or leave GK there all cooped up in his little Private Idaho.

Come to think of it though, we'll be at peace with GK so it would be better to give it to Brennus instead, just before it comes out of resistance. That way, we have time to build our other city(ies), get their culture CLOSE to border expansion, retake Vienne, and THEN give it to GK, because then he'd really be cooped up there.

Now if GK wouldn't be willing to accept the gift of that city, then we'd have to DOW him 10 turns before we wanted to give it to him in a peace treaty (more likely to accept it), but that would resurrect our WW with him, which I assume is monumental right now, so BAG the whole idea, wasters.

But it's a brilliant idea, Pigster! ;)

and hope AlanH doesn't disqualify me for sheer stupidity :blush:Clearly, if that were a criterion for disqualification, he would have done that long ago.

Clearly, if that were a criterion for disqualification, he would have done that long ago.
to whom????

to whom????D'oh?

Or should I say, "da!"

(Can't wait for him to see that...)

Or should I say, "da!"

(Can't wait for him to see that...)
The Gypsies have probably been conquered by GK's Keshik hordes already, so he's probably studying our thread for nuggets of greatness right now

Great turnset Gnejs - apart from the micromanagement

I think our nets are safe from the barb galley thanks to the Great Wall

'Got it' - and I'm sorry to confess I've had a bit of a :smoke: moment with the save :(

I was looking at the various civic options (and wondering why Gnejs hadn't switched to OR...) and inadvertantly hit 'revolution' to switch to OR. Now we may well have decided to do that anyway, but maybe it would have been better to go with Bureaucracy at the same time? Anyway..... So then I decided, having started to play by making that civic change, I might as well sink the scraps of Brennus's navy that Gnejs had kindly left for me and sort out the resource trades that Gnejs had been too busy warring to look at, before saving. All went very well - except that I forgot to save the game before closing....:hammer2: :wallbash:

Clearly I'm having a Friday 13 day. I'll replay those trades, moves and the civic change - and hope AlanH doesn't disqualify me for sheer stupidity :blush:

We should not switch to B. until all units are out.

And hasn't Gnejs proved that we cannot be disqualified for stupidity? :lol:

And hasn't Gnejs proved that we cannot be disqualified for stupidity? :lol:Collectively, not.

If I'm not mistaken, we have to give BP credit for proving that first.

Collectively, not.

If I'm not mistaken, we have to give BP credit for proving that first.
Hey, it wouldn't be fair for the captain to hog all the credit

Random thoughts from the save:

Has GK outlived his usefulness? GK now knows Wash and Hannibal - I think that will make him less likely to trade stuff we give him (e.g. Astro) to Gandhi won't it? Also he and Hanni are cautious with each other, so there is the danger of him trading good techs to Hanni - or become a Hanni-vassal. Time to put him out of his misery?
Tech. We could get Guilds in 4 turns to speed up our conquest of Isa. Or Education in 8 turns to race to Liberalism. Or we could just continue to hoarde money on 0% research
War with Brennus. I plan to ceasefire after taking Vienne and Geo-whatsit, and then turn our attentions to Isa. Brennus is finished and can be mopped up at any time. But will wiping out (or at least seriously hurting) Isa going to help our aim of pushing the tech-rate along?

@Big Pig: There is a HOF option to autosave on exit. You wouldn't happen to have this checked? Also, send a PM to AlanH just to be safe.


Brennus should be eliminated, otherwise we will have unhappiness to deal with. Send a land stack to Vienne and use galleons to quickly get the coastal cities (three of them, right?). Ten turns is more than enough time for this for a competent player. ;)

Brennus GK should be eliminated, otherwise we will have unhappiness to deal with. That's what I was trying to tell you - perhaps those two remaining LBs seemed too much of a challenge? :p

That's what I was trying to tell you - perhaps those two remaining LBs seemed too much of a challenge? :p

GK is useful as a trading partner to Gandhi. This outweighs the disadvantage of unhappiness in cities that we don't plan on keeping. Brennus only contributes unhappiness in cities that we do need to get up and running quickly.
I suggest we gift Astronomy to GK now.

You peace-mongers!

Kill both GK and Brennus. We have no use for them. Let's handle the mess after we create it!

Has GK outlived his usefulness? GK now knows Wash and Hannibal - True. If GK knows both Hannibal and Washington, then he won't trade to Gandhi unless 2 of us 3 also know the tech.
Tech. We could get Guilds in 4 turns to speed up our conquest of Isa. Or Education in 8 turns to race to Liberalism. Now that Gandhi's with it again, might as well let him go for Liberalism, which I think he will. Or we could just continue to hoarde money on 0% research
War with Brennus. I plan to ceasefire after taking Vienne and Geo-whatsit, and then turn our attentions to Isa. Brennus is finished and can be mopped up at any time. But will wiping out (or at least seriously hurting) Isa going to help our aim of pushing the tech-rate along? I think so. Ultimately, I think we want to eliminate all but Hannibal and Washington.
Brennus should be eliminatedGK is useful as a trading partner to Gandhi. Brennus only contributes unhappiness in cities that we do need to get up and running quickly.
I suggest we gift Astronomy to GK now.I haven't checked the save on these details, but If GK knows Washington, he may be useless to us already. Brennus is definitely useless, although his epitaph should include our hearty thanks for Bibracte.

EDIT: If we can isolate Brennus and have him meet only Gandhi, he becomes useful after we eliminate Isa or Mehmed.

Random thoughts from the save:Anyone notice the desperate lack of ideas on how to get G to capture GC? ;) It is another of his flights of fancy. The best recourse is to smile, say 'that's an interesting idea LC' and meanwhile we can decide on a realistic and workable plan :)
BP, please ignore this next brainwave and continue munching on your slop. :p We now have two AIs on their knees, more or less powerless, defenseless, hopeless...

Maybe we should see if we can bribe one to DOW G, then give him GC? Maybe we can put a non-G religion in GC, then gift it to one, so their declare the wrong right state religion, thus incurring G's wrath, then we force a DOW. DOn't know how possible it is. Or...maybe we get Isa to meet, hate, and DOW G, then beat her down...etc.

Edit1: Or...gift AI-007 GC, then wipe out his remaining cities, vassalize him, thereby forcing DOW on G...voila!

Eidt2: But I don't know how G looks on the power relationships if weakling A is vassalized to powerhouse Us.

Edith3: Maybe we would be wiser to try Edit1 with city A or B from my recent dot map as an experiment. Preferably, city B (the garbage one). This is also a brilliant way to isolate Brennus as we can block the canal and any entry to his borders...if G doesn't grab it.

Anyone notice the desperate lack of ideas on how to get G to capture GC? ;)
BP, please ignore this next brainwave and continue munching on your slop. :p We now have two AIs on their knees, more or less powerless, defenseless, hopeless...

Maybe we should see if we can bribe one to DOW G, then give him GC? Maybe we can put a non-G religion in GC, then gift it to one, so their declare the wrong right state religion, thus incurring G's wrath, then we force a DOW. DOn't know how possible it is. Or...maybe we get Isa to meet, hate, and DOW G, then beat her down...etc.

Edit1: Or...gift AI-007 GC, then wipe out his remaining cities, vassalize him, thereby forcing DOW on G...voila!

Eidt2: But I don't know how G looks on the power relationships if weakling A is vassalized to powerhouse Us.

Edith3: Maybe we would be wiser to try Edit1 with city A or B from my recent dot map as an experiment. Preferably, city B (the garbage one). This is also a brilliant way to isolate Brennus as we can block the canal and any entry to his borders...if G doesn't grab it.

No. Don't think this will work any better than current situation. Gandhi is terrified as it is, another enemy will make him even more cowardly.

I suggest we conquer Isa and then disband every single unit we have, except workers and workboats. These we make plenty of, and line up from our cities towards Gandhi. Into his territory if possible.

If this doesn't help we need to file a bug report. :)

No. Don't think this will work any better than current situation. Gandhi is terrified as it is, another enemy will make him even more cowardly.

I suggest we conquer Isa and then disband every single unit we have, except workers and workboats. These we make plenty of, and line up from our cities towards Gandhi. Into his territory if possible.

If this doesn't help we need to file a bug report. :)Well, at least we can build cities A and B. You know the classic sales ploy: don't give the customer a yes/no question, but rather an either/or.

Well, at least we can build cities A and B. You know the classic sales ploy: don't give the customer a yes/no question, but rather an either/or.

Won't that increase our power rating even further?

We probably need to let Gandhi sail around our coasts for a while, to get familiar with the land.

Maybe we should see if we can bribe one to DOW G, then give him GC? Maybe we can put a non-G religion in GC, then gift it to one, so their declare the wrong right state religion, thus incurring G's wrath, then we force a DOW. DOn't know how possible it is. Or...maybe we get Isa to meet, hate, and DOW G, then beat her down...etc.

Edit1: Or...gift AI-007 GC, then wipe out his remaining cities, vassalize him, thereby forcing DOW on G...voila!

Eidt2: But I don't know how G looks on the power relationships if weakling A is vassalized to powerhouse Us.

Edith3: Maybe we would be wiser to try Edit1 with city A or B from my recent dot map as an experiment. Preferably, city B (the garbage one). This is also a brilliant way to isolate Brennus as we can block the canal and any entry to his borders...if G doesn't grab it.
:) That's an interesting idea, LC.

@Erkon, Gnejs and JERFit: Ok guys, now we've pacified him, lets see if we can find a plan that actually might work

:) That's an interesting idea, LC.

@Erkon, Gnejs and JERFit: Ok guys, now we've pacified him, lets see if we can find a plan that actually might workPacified, schmacified.

Here are the facts, the Big Facts:

Brennus does not know Hannibal or G yet. That means if we isolate him, he's useful after we have eliminated Isa and Mehmed (which we definitely want to do), until Hannibal finds him, if ever. Hannibal does not have OB with Isa or G and I suppose won't until Free Religion. Also note that Brennus has not yet started counting WFYABTA with G.

Take a look at City B. Brennus will be ISL: I-So-Lated.

That would give us three trading partners with G for the price of 2, which may be critical because Hannibal may not be particularly reliable.

Note that this is all contingent on whether BP can pop a City B settler and kill off those 2 Brennus coastal cities during his turnset, and that's a Big If.

Pacified, schmacified.

Here are the facts, the Big Facts:

Brennus does not know Hannibal or G yet. That means if we isolate him, he's useful after we have eliminated Isa and Mehmed (which we definitely want to do), until Hannibal finds him, if ever. Hannibal does not have OB with Isa or G and I suppose won't until Free Religion. Also note that Brennus has not yet started counting WFYABTA with G.

Take a look at City B. Brennus will be ISL: I-So-Lated.

That would give us three trading partners with G for the price of 2, which may be critical because Hannibal may not be particularly reliable.
Ok - but don't forget Hanniballs currently has a fleet of caravels scouring the High Seas for a glimpse of the Fabled Celtia. He will find Brenuus in the next 5 turns.

Also (I can't see the save right now) - will Brennus accept any of our current Old World cities? 'Cos if he won't, then he sure won't accept poxy little City B for Back-end-of-Nowhere......

Won't that increase our power rating even further? I can't see 1 or 2 podunk cities making that big a difference.
We probably need to let Gandhi sail around our coasts for a while, to get familiar with the land.Definitely. And shoot gems at him instead of bullets...

BTW, I seriously think that letting him kill off a few of our warriors might make a difference. I'm talking about the iLostWarAttitudeChange factor in the xml code. I'm speculating on how this is used. I know it's used as one of the invisible factors to determine his attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if it also affects his attitude about his warring chances. Right now I know I killed off one of his galleys and it may have had two units in it. Don't remember what the rest of you guys did.

OTOH, even sending a unit into his territory might put him squarely on the dfensive, so maybe we want to remove ALL our units from his borders, except workers and wbs.

Ok - but don't forget Hanniballs currently has a fleet of caravels scouring the High Seas for a glimpse of the Fabled Celtia. He will find Brenuus in the next 5 turns. Whine, whine, excuses, excuses...

Also (I can't see the save right now) - will Brennus accept any of our current Old World cities? 'Cos if he won't, then he sure won't accept poxy little City B for Back-end-of-Nowhere......Right now he'll only take his own, but after he's down to Vienne that might easily change. If not, screw'm.

If G is first to Liberalism, then great - altho' we will probably get more beaker value from it than he will. However, Hanniballs is also a contender - he alone of the AI knows Paper, and clearly it would be preferable that we get it rather than him. It might be wise for us to beeline in the direction of Lib - we can always wait for G to get it if it looks he will get there ahead of H.

If G is first to Liberalism, then great - altho' we will probably get more beaker value from it than he will. However, Hanniballs is also a contender - he alone of the AI knows Paper, and clearly it would be preferable that we get it rather than him. It might be wise for us to beeline in the direction of Lib - we can always wait for G to get it if it looks he will get there ahead of H.I'm not really sure howto think this through. If we gift G a ton of commerce-producing cities he might leave the others in his dust and not be able to trade with them for that reason. So it would be good for Hannibal and W to research fast.

OTOH, the faster we go, teh cheaper we make teching for the rest and the safer we are.

In any case, if H already has paper, then we ought to get it just so he'll trade it (although he won't unless at least another knows it...so we'll have to giftit to someone he knows).

In general, if we're shifting into builder/researcher phase, then we should go all out on research, I think.

So now that you have 100 ideas, BP, what are you going to do and when you are going to play?

In any case, if H already has paper, then we ought to get it just so he'll trade it (although he won't unless at least another knows it...so we'll have to giftit to someone he knows).
Ummm - we already do.....

Ummm - we already do.....Pass. Any other questions? :lol:

So now that you have 100 ideas, BP, what are you going to do and when you are going to play?
Guess I'll make it up as I go along (as usual).

I note the GS will bulb most of Education. Good deal? Or build an academy in CC?

EDIT: I'm going to play a turn or two now and see where it takes me.

I think our nets are safe from the barb galley thanks to the Great Wall

151323

Guess they didn't build it underwater then....

We have one major problem and tons of minor. The major problem we have, and the one we need to solve, is: how do we teach Gandhi the art of war? How do we make him take our cities?

Our main strategy so far is that we want him to take GC. It didn't work (so far). So, the AI is useless at sea-invasions. We thus need to help G to cross the water. What other options do we have? How about sending workers NW of CC into Gandhi land? Will that help him to send units to our continent? As soon as he has unit on out continent, we can lure him to take CC. That means we need workers. Lot of workers*.

I don't believe work boats will help. G will not send galleys with troops to destroy workboats.

We should evacuate all cities that G. can see as well.

* from the Matrix movie: we need guns - lots of guns.

Guess I'll make it up as I go along (as usual).

I note the GS will bulb most of Education. Good deal? Or build an academy in CC?

EDIT: I'm going to play a turn or two now and see where it takes me.

Build the academy. We will get first to liberalism anyway. And we need to focus on loosing the game :D

Build the academy. We will get first to liberalism anyway. And we need to focus on loosing the game :DAbsolutely agree. OUr GS's are G's GS's. Academy in CC, then other academies, such as Karak or MW, whichever is producing more G gold (ie, don't include our bonuses).

I would also priortize building Stone/Island City down S over CIty A or City B.

5 turns in, and I've paused to upload.

Vienne is about to fall - do we want it?
A Gandhi-galley is sniffing around our coast - but no landings yet :(

Turn 234, 1010 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.30) vs Brennus's Trireme (2.00)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Brennus's Trireme!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Brennus's Chariot (4.40)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Chariot is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Chariot is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (30/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Chariot is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (16/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Chariot is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Chariot!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon (4.00) vs Brennus's Trireme (2.00)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (30/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon has defeated Brennus's Trireme!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Mehmed II adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs Murky Waters's Berserker (10.80)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Combat Odds: 0.6%
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!

Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) (8.80) vs Brennus's Gallic Warrior (4.00)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) has defeated Brennus's Gallic Warrior!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (9.60) vs Brennus's Axeman (6.75)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Combat Odds: 88.5%
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Axeman!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (7.04) vs Brennus's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Combat Odds: 88.3%
Turn 235, 1025 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (65/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (50/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (35/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Coco Chanel (Great Merchant) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Brennus's Longbowman (3.72)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 61.0%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet has defeated Brennus's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Brennus's Longbowman (3.04)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 72.9%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (70/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (48/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (26/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (4/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet has defeated Brennus's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Brennus's Archer (2.01)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Archer is hit for 36 (42/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Archer is hit for 36 (6/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Archer is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Archer!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.09) vs Brennus's Spearman (1.72)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 10 (82/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 38 (42/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 38 (4/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 38 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Spearman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: You have captured Gergovia!!!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) (6.51) vs Brennus's Scout (1.00)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Scout is hit for 44 (56/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) is hit for 8 (66/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Scout is hit for 44 (12/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Brennus's Scout is hit for 44 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) has defeated Brennus's Scout!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Ning-hsia. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has begun!!!

Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.00) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.20)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Combat Odds: 79.3%
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Commerce City has grown to size 12
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Taoism has spread in Marble City.
Turn 237, 1055 AD: You have trained a Trebuchet in Old Sarai. Work has now begun on a Berserker.
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Besh will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 237, 1055 AD: The borders of Turfan have expanded!
Turn 237, 1055 AD: The borders of Camulodunum have expanded!
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Murky Waters's Berserker (5.82)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Combat Odds: 70.4%
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (City Attack: +10%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 237, 1055 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Horse Archer!

Turn 238, 1070 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Mehmed II for Open Borders
Turn 238, 1070 AD: Deal Canceled: Sugar to Isabella for Rice
Turn 238, 1070 AD: You have trained a Trebuchet in New Sarai. Work has now begun on a Trading Post.
Turn 238, 1070 AD: Besh has grown to size 10
Turn 238, 1070 AD: Ning-hsia has grown to size 5
Turn 238, 1070 AD: The borders of Samarqand have expanded!

Turn 239, 1085 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Vienne to 49%!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Vienne to 42%!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Ning-hsia.
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Marble City will grow to size 8 on the next turn
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Cape Fish has grown to size 8
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Old Sarai has grown to size 6
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Islam has spread in Brown City.
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Gandhi adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: Sir Alexander Mackenzie (Great Merchant) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Gandhi

Turn 240, 1100 AD: The enemy has been spotted near New Sarai!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: You have declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon (3.40) vs Brennus's Trireme (2.20)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 90.9%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Trireme is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon has defeated Brennus's Trireme!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Galleon has destroyed a Trireme!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Vienne to 31%!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Vienne to 21%!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Vienne to 14%!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.53) vs Brennus's Longbowman (5.94)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 85.9%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (81/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (65/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (49/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Longbowman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Brennus's Longbowman (5.17)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 95.2%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Longbowman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (7.48) vs Brennus's Axeman (3.67)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 98.2%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (72/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (59/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brennus's Axeman is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Axeman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Axeman!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Marble City has grown to size 8
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Marble City has become unhappy
Turn 240, 1100 AD: You have trained a Trebuchet in Cape Fish. Work has now begun on a Pikeman.
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Turfan will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Brown City will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme (2.20) vs Murky Waters's Trireme (2.20)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Trireme is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Trireme is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Trireme is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Trireme is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Murky Waters's Trireme is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme has defeated Murky Waters's Trireme!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: While defending, your Trireme was destroyed by a Mongolian Trireme!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mehmed II's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Hannibal, Washington

Turn 241, 1106 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Samarqand!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Besh!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: The enemy has been spotted near New Sarai!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) (8.80) vs Brennus's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 96.8%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Georgy Zhukov has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (7.48) vs Brennus's Catapult (3.22)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Durnovaria to 41%!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Durnovaria to 32%!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight (13.00) vs Brennus's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Francisco Pizarro (Great General) has been born in Murky Waters (Murky Waters)!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Knight has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Otrar to 41%!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight (10.00) vs Genghis Khan's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight has defeated Genghis Khan's Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Knight has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.20) vs Genghis Khan's Trireme (2.40)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Genghis Khan's Trireme!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Your Caravel has destroyed a Trireme!

Vienne is about to fall - do we want it? Guess so.
A Gandhi-galley is sniffing around our coast - but no landings yet :( Could have a worker in view of all 3 of G's canal cities.

5 turns in, and I've paused to upload.

Vienne is about to fall - do we want it?
A Gandhi-galley is sniffing around our coast - but no landings yet :(


Great fighting! :goodjob:

How about building hindu missionaries in Verlamion and Camuludonum?
I think we should keep Vienne
Can we trade us Drama? Then we should increase the cultural slider until this devastating WW is gone...
Perhaps the galley has a settler on board...

Great fighting! :goodjob:

How about building hindu missionaries in Verlamion and Camuludonum?
I think we should keep Vienne
Can we trade us Drama? Then we should increase the cultural slider until this devastating WW is gone...
Perhaps the galley has a settler on board...The WW is compounded by the DOW on GK.

The WW is compounded by the DOW on GK.
I've now captured Vienne and got a ceasefire with Brennus (the source of 2/3 of the WW) while I take out GK and regroup the New World forces

All done

Highlights:

Captured Gergovia and Vienne. A pathetic haul compared to the rest of you warmongers I know, but Gnejs left my armies the other side of the continent from Vienne....
Brennus is now down to 2 cities and an uneasy cease-fire is in effect
GK is no more - peace reigns throughout the land!
Gandhi finally landed an LB and a settler on the 'thumb' - and settled some stupid rinky-dink city there
I have set up troops for a mass assault on Madrid and Santiago. The knight on the east coast is 2 moves away from Isa's sole source of iron (and macemen)
There is a Hindu miss heading for MW (he got slightly confused and headed the wrong way initially)
Stone Island has been settled
Our economy sucks! We may need to trade Astro soon to keep up in the tech race
We have a new GG - what to do with him?

Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight (10.00) vs Genghis Khan's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Knight has defeated Genghis Khan's Catapult!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.20) vs Genghis Khan's Trireme (2.40)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Genghis Khan's Trireme is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Genghis Khan's Trireme!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (5.19) vs Brennus's Spearman (2.15)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Plot Defense: +14%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 11 (48/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Brennus's Spearman is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Brennus's Spearman!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: You have captured Vienne!!!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: You have made peace with Brennus!
Turn 241, 1106 AD: Washington adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 242, 1112 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Brown City.
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.52) vs Genghis Khan's Galley (2.40)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Combat Odds: 89.4%
Turn 242, 1112 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Genghis Khan's Galley!
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Nidaros has been founded.
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Karak has grown to size 8
Turn 242, 1112 AD: The borders of Tolosa have expanded!

Turn 243, 1118 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Otrar to 23%!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Murky Waters has grown to size 11
Turn 243, 1118 AD: New Sarai will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Samarqand will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 243, 1118 AD: The borders of Verlamion have expanded!

Turn 244, 1124 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Bibracte!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (5.40)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Combat Odds: 16.6%
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Murky Waters's Trebuchet!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Trebuchet has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (4.21)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Combat Odds: 40.3%
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (73/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (54/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (35/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (16/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Murky Waters's Trebuchet!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Trebuchet has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (6.44)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Combat Odds: 91.3%
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Knight (10.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (2.05)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Murky Waters's Knight has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Your Knight has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: You have captured Otrar!!!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: You have pillaged 52 ? from the destruction of Otrar!!!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: The Mongolian Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Mehmed II has 190 gold available for trade
Turn 244, 1124 AD: New Sarai has grown to size 6
Turn 244, 1124 AD: The borders of Old Sarai have expanded!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Besh will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Ning-hsia will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Turfan has grown to size 5
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Samarqand has grown to size 5
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Khazak (Barbarian) has been captured by the Spanish Empire!!!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: Johannes Kepler (Great Scientist) has been born in Madrid (Isabella)!
Turn 244, 1124 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Hannibal

Turn 245, 1130 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Deal Canceled: Clam to Washington for Gold Per Turn (6)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Isabella has 210 gold available for trade
Turn 245, 1130 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Old Sarai. Work has now begun on a Berserker.
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Besh has grown to size 11
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Ning-hsia has grown to size 6
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 246, 1136 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!

That was a great turnset BP :goodjob:

I think I'll make some some observations now. You can't lurk forever you know :p

We should get rid of Brennus' final cities within the next turnset to get rid of that pesky motherland angries (do those go away, if we get rid of him? I've never really thought of it)
If we decide to build Vienna4E we have to raze Izzy's city Khazak
I was looking at the save and it's probably worth mentioning that Hannibal is on his way to WAR!! :backstab: (I'm guessing America)

Is there any way that we can get somebody on better relations with Ghandi? At the moment nobody will trade with him, I don't think; he's annoyed with everybody, except Washington (-6).

Maybe we should get a few caravel-load of jewish missionaries and ship them over to America? Or maybe Mehmed? I don't think we'll be able to convert either Hannibal or Washington.

We could declare war on either Hannibal or Washington to get a relations boost too.

Anything else? :confused:

...
We should get rid of Brennus' final cities within the next turnset to get rid of that pesky motherland angries (do those go away, if we get rid of him? I've never really thought of it) Yes, they go away
If we decide to build Vienna4E we have to raze Izzy's city Khazak I think we shall raze it
I was looking at the save and it's probably worth mentioning that Hannibal is on his way to WAR!! :backstab: (I'm guessing America)



Worst case is if he declares on Gandhi...

That was a great turnset BP :goodjob:

I think I'll make some some observations now. You can't lurk forever you know :p

We should get rid of Brennus' final cities within the next turnset to get rid of that pesky motherland angries (do those go away, if we get rid of him? I've never really thought of it)
If we decide to build Vienna4E we have to raze Izzy's city Khazak
I was looking at the save and it's probably worth mentioning that Hannibal is on his way to WAR!! :backstab: (I'm guessing America)



Worst case is if he declares on Gandhi...Hannibal is looking extremely dangerous to me. He has Gunpowder and could easily have Grenadiers any time now. We're nowhere near to either of those.

I'm thinking our priority may be to take out Carthage nad Hadrametum, if that's even possible. Mehmed's in a GA and is picking up steam. I'm afraid Washington might get squeezed and THAT's the worst-case scenario for us.

We could leave Mehmed and wipe out Hannibal instead.

Great play! :goodjob:

All done

Highlights:

Captured Gergovia and Vienne. A pathetic haul compared to the rest of you warmongers I know, but Gnejs left my armies the other side of the continent from Vienne.... It's not easy to play after Gnejs, but I expected you to kill the last two cities as well! Peace-monger!!! ;)
Brennus is now down to 2 cities and an uneasy cease-fire is in effect
GK is no more - peace reigns throughout the land!
Gandhi finally landed an LB and a settler on the 'thumb' - and settled some stupid rinky-dink city there
I have set up troops for a mass assault on Madrid and Santiago. The knight on the east coast is 2 moves away from Isa's sole source of iron (and macemen)
There is a Hindu miss heading for MW (he got slightly confused and headed the wrong way initially)
Stone Island has been settled
Our economy sucks! We may need to trade Astro soon to keep up in the tech race
We have a new GG - what to do with him?



We need courthouses! Where shall we build FP? First, which continent?

I think we should trade astronomy to washington for all his tech.

And no more military/naval units in Gandhi-contentent, only missionaries and workers?!

Shall we setup the worker trail between Kolhapur and CC now?

I think we should kill off Brennus last cities before attacking Isabella.

All doneWell done! :goodjob: Excellent piece of work overseeing the settlement of G on our side. Now I can sleep at night once again.

We need courthouses! We only need one more: the one where we'll build the FP Where shall we build FP? First, which continent? I recommend Tolosa. It can have it done in 36t w/o poprushing. That would leave Vienne to build Hindu Missionaries, for now.

I think we should trade astronomy to washington for all his tech. I agree.

And no more military/naval units in Gandhi-contentent, only missionaries and workers?! I wonder. Convince me that Hannibal isn't about to overrun the world.

Shall we setup the worker trail between Kolhapur and CC now? How about GC first, Hagia Sophia in CC (28t), and Sankore in MW (23t)?

I think we should kill off Brennus last cities before attacking Isabella.
I still like isolating Brennus in City B. He still hasn't met Hannibal. But not urgent.

I also wonder if we want to do Isabella or maybe beat Hannibal down first. If we have FP in 35 turns, then we don't need Isa a long time before that. Hannibal has too many hammers in Carthage, Hadrumetum, and Hippo for the Space Race anyway. Let's beat him down before it's too late?

EDIT: Alternatively, we could just send a rape-and-plunder SOD to pillage the living bejesus out of his mines.

EDIT2: Should we beeline for Chemistry? Otherwise H will soon rule the oceans with Frigates.

@BP, those two pre-chops between Bibracte and Tolosa, where do the hammers go?

@BP, those two pre-chops between Bibracte and Tolosa, where do the hammers go?
Not sure - I think I pre-chopped them while they still belonged to Brennus.

I think we should kill off Brennus last cities before attacking Isabella.
Pros: removes motherland unhappiness
Cons: not a threat
requires troops and navy to be repositioned

I was planning on taking the last 2 cities at leisure - after taking Vienne it was more important to get rid of WW than to carry on fighting for another ~4 turns. If we do re-declare WW will be back with a vengeance so make sure the troops are well positioned to take both cities in 1-2 turns. His capital has 3 LBs, the other city an axe and a GW.

I made a bit of a mistake whipping the forge in Bibracte (for happiness). Bibracte is such a great commerce city that it should have had a market. A harbor will also be useful and will give an extra 10gold per turn thanks to the Temple of Artemis

Not sure - I think I pre-chopped them while they still belonged to Brennus.COUld you check your saves, please? It can make a pretty big difference in terms of when the FP will be done in either Tolosa or Bibracte.

(If it can't be determined, so be it...)

COUld you check your saves, please? It can make a pretty big difference in terms of when the FP will be done in either Tolosa or Bibracte.

(If it can't be determined, so be it...)
Both were Tolosa - BUT at that point Bibracte was in resistance.
Tolosa is geographically a better site that Bibracte for the FP

Convince me that Hannibal isn't about to overrun the world.Well, he may well be about to DOW Washington. That may well be a good thing if it slows down his development temporarily.

Who else can he war against? Nobody. His galleys can not reach the Old World or pass through Washington's lands to reach Mehmet, Isa or us.

If necessary we can always gift Washington some units to help out - or make a surprise attack on Carthage

Both were Tolosa - BUT at that point Bibracte was in resistance. Thx, BP. Excellent, let's hope it stays Tolosa. Doesn't the chop retain its original assignment, except when it's in both fat crosses so you can countermand it?
Tolosa is geographically a better site that Bibracte for the FPDefinitely.

Well, he may well be about to DOW Washington. That may well be a good thing if it slows down his development temporarily.

Who else can he war against? Nobody. His galleys can not reach the Old World or pass through Washington's lands to reach Mehmet, Isa or us.

If necessary we can always gift Washington some units to help out - or make a surprise attack on CarthageDoesn't H have Astro now? Thought I saw that, but maybe not.

Washington is the weakest 'living' AI. He's cramped and vulnerable from both sides to barbarians who have rising power graphs and who don't like him cuz he's a pedantic nerd. We don't want him getting beaten up too much, but we can always raise him back up from the dust, I guess.

Doesn't H have Astro now? Thought I saw that, but maybe not.

Damn. Yes he does. H is really cooking with gas right now. I still think the likely target is Wash - but he may be tempted by a bit of Gandhi-action...

In that case we should certainly sell Astro to Washington for his techs as you suggested

Incidentally, this may be a good time to sell off our world maps - much longer and they will be worthless

The lack of courthouses in all cities cost us 70 gpt. That's 20% we're missing. Perhaps we don't need to build them everywhere, but it's certainly more than just one, yes?

I spoke to Gnejs over the phone, and he complained that his suggestion to gift Astronomy to GK was ignored. I vehemently defended our master, but he insisted on a explanation from our great leader.

He also wants us to build the Sankore in MW.

We then had a discussion where to build the FP. Karak is one good candidate. Hing-sia as well. Gnejs would prefer to build the Versailles in Karak, which is the best, but I think Washington will build it first. Tolosa/Bibracte are good candidates as well. Perhaps we shall move the capital to Karak then?

I want to get rid of Brennus first. Isca can be taken from the sea in one turn. Durnovara can be taken in two turns. I don't want us to attack Isabella until we know what Hannibal will do.

Im not that scared of Hannibal. If he is beating up Wash, we can gift Wash both units and ships.

If we trade with Washington, we can detect if he is Hannibals worst enemy, since Hannibal will be upset. Then we know who Hannibal will attack.

The lack of courthouses in all cities cost us 70 gpt. That's 20% we're missing. Perhaps we don't need to build them everywhere, but it's certainly more than just one, yes?Definitely. I should probably have prioritised a few more CH builds

I spoke to Gnejs over the phone, and he complained that his suggestion to gift Astronomy to GK was ignored. I vehemently defended our master, but he insisted on a explanation from our great leader. 'cos it was a bad suggestion and I wanted to wipe GK from the face of the planet to encourage G to trade with the others

He also wants us to build the Sankore in MW. cool

We then had a discussion where to build the FP. Karak is one good candidate. Hing-sia as well. Gnejs would prefer to build the Versailles in Karak, which is the best, but I think Washington will build it first. Tolosa/Bibracte are good candidates as well. Perhaps we shall move the capital to Karak then? Why would we want the FP on the continent we are going to give to Gandhi? Surely we should build FP in the north of the New World (pref Tolosa as we may well want to build other NWs in Bibracte such as Wall Street) and our new palace in the south (e.g. Madrid)?

I want to get rid of Brennus first. Isca can be taken from the sea in one turn. Durnovara can be taken in two turns. True. But it will take ~5 turns or more to position our troops first. Currently they are well positioned to take out Madrid and Santiago. Madrid will pay for itself. There is no rush at all to finish Brennus and his new cities will give only minimal benefit. The only real advantage will be to allow Bibracte to grow faster by removing the Motherland unhappiness I don't want us to attack Isabella until we know what Hannibal will do.

Im not that scared of Hannibal. If he is beating up Wash, we can gift Wash both units and ships.

If we trade with Washington, we can detect if he is Hannibals worst enemy, since Hannibal will be upset. Then we know who Hannibal will attack.
Does the AI always attach their worst enemy (only)? I think we already know Wash is H's worst enemy

I still say we take a few choice cities of Isa'a now. Madrid is invaluable. Santiago and ex-barb city we can raze to allow our cultural borders to expand and to build Vienne West

Why would we want the FP on the continent we are going to give to Gandhi? Surely we should build FP in the north of the New World (pref Tolosa as we may well want to build other NWs in Bibracte such as Wall Street) and our new palace in the south (e.g. Madrid)? Because Gandhi is so slow that he will never got down to Karak ;) Actually, I wanted to convey our discussion as it was. I want you all to be aware of what we talk about to avoid us being in murky waters. :lol: Tolosa is fine.

Does the AI always attach their worst enemy (only)? I think we already know Wash is H's worst enemy I was not sure, since watching the relations, it was not evident.

I still say we take a few choice cities of Isa'a now. Madrid is invaluable. Santiago and ex-barb city we can raze to allow our cultural borders to expand and to build Vienne West

Ouch - I didn't notice the galleons laden with units next to Madrid! You are correct, let's stab her!

The lack of courthouses in all cities cost us 70 gpt. CHs we need, along with a boatload of other stuff...

I spoke to Gnejs over the phone, and he complained that his suggestion to gift Astronomy to GK was ignored. I vehemently defended our master, but he insisted on a explanation handkerchief :lol: from our great leader.

I'm not that scared of Hannibal. If he is beating up Wash, we can gift Wash both units and ships. What if he takes Delhi all of a sudden?I think we're agreed on FH in Tolosa, then. I agree with BP: No point in building palace in GLand. Madrid would be great, it's got a ton of commerce. If we get Madrid soon, we should be able to have the Palace jump there when G takes MW, free of charge.

I guess we don't need to worry about Washington too much. Like you said, better him than G. That also means GLand is relatviely safe as long as we're there, because I don't think he'll DOW us, for now anyway. That means we can calmly go forward and establish our new homeland.

Here are some things we can accomplish in 30 turns:

FP in Tolosa
Sankore in MW
Hagia Sophia in CC
Academy in Karak (Madrid already has one)
Gift G as many cities as possible (can't vouch for Erkon and Gnejs on this... :lol:)
Spread Hinduism all around (Bibracte is the only Holy City with a Religious Wonder so far... :cool:)
Maybe Versailles in Karak (EDIT: ...ahem...cough cough...we don't have Divine Right yet...)

Here are some things we can accomplish in 30 turns:

FP in Tolosa
Sankore in MW
Hagia Sophia in CC
Academy in Karak (Madrid already has one)
Gift G as many cities as possible (can't vouch for Erkon and Gnejs on this... :lol:)
Spread Hinduism all around (Bibracte is the only Holy City with a Religious Wonder so far... :cool:)
Maybe Versailles in Karak (EDIT: ...ahem...cough cough...we don't have Divine Right yet...)
market, grocer, harbor and CH in Bibracte? (with all 4 we should get an extra ~40-50 gpt) EDIT: and a bank once we get currency!

Bibracte has a lot of scope for large whips and rapid regrowth. A market will also give +4 happies (useful to combat all the whip unhappiness)

"..got it.."

Think I'll play Monday AM.

Bibracte has a lot of scope for large whips and rapid regrowth. A market will also give +4 happies (useful to combat all the whip unhappiness)

We can skip the CH in Bibracte if we plan to build the FP in Tolosa. A CH will at the moment save as much gold as a market will generate (10 gpt). With the FP, the market will generate much more compared to the CH.

In general, I think we should turn away from military and focus only on infrastucture builds. And if we need to prioritise, our optimization target should be 50-100 turns from now. Any build that will return investment later than 100 turns should be discussed here.

I still say we take a few choice cities of Isa'a now. Madrid is invaluable. Santiago and ex-barb city we can raze to allow our cultural borders to expand and to build Vienne WestWe definitely keep Madrid and definitely raze ex-barb city. Do we really want to raze Santiago?

I assume we're keeping the other cities, right?

Great play BP! :goodjob:

Have you people compared our score and power to the other teams? We are in a clear lead! :)


Some thoughts on the save:

We have some resource trades that need cancelling or re-negotiating now that Brennus so kindly has let us help ourselves to his land. :D

Isabella looks ready to fall. Good job on positioning our troops. LC, looks like it is goind to be a fun turnset for you. :)

Sell Music to Isabella. Trade Astronomy to Washington for bunch of techs.

Switch to Mercantilism+Bureaucracy (we won't be building any troops now, and the free units are compensated by the 50% commerce in MW, I think). +50% hammers in MW is good, but put those hammers into UoS and not a stable(?). :dubious:

Big Pig, I still don't understand why you removed GK. Not sure how encouraging it is for Gandhi to lose his only true friend. Everyone else is at -3 or more due to religion, so he won't be making new friends in a while.

I see we are still building troops on our home continent. Afraid of Hannibal? If so, it could be a good idea to put some initial hammers into units in every city, and then switch to something more useful (for Gandhi). If Hannibal declares on us we can whip 13 units the first turn. :) If not, then we haven't wasted that much...

Set up that worker trail now. We have plenty of workers close to CC, and none of them are really doing anything essential. I have made a little map (yes, I can use Paint too!) on how I suggest we place some workers. While we wait for Gandhi to get a move they can even be useful by improving the tiles.

151469

Regarding the worker trail map.
Would it be ok to combine the two western spots into one spot on the hill where the warrior is? Also, move the northern-most one 1E just to discourage any pillaging of the gold mines. Then again, I don't think it really matters much.

We have some resource trades that need cancelling or re-negotiating now that Brennus so kindly has let us help ourselves to his land. :D Okay.

Sell Music to Isabella. Trade Astronomy to Washington for bunch of techs. Have Isabella given us free money yet? I think W will give us everything he's willing to trade at all for Astro. ANd I guess I should sell maps for good cash?

Switch to Mercantilism+Bureaucracy (we won't be building any troops now, and the free units are compensated by the 50% commerce in MW, I think). +50% hammers in MW is good, but put those hammers into UoS and not a stable(?). :dubious: Switching either 2 or 3 civics costs us 3 turns. I got your message on the whipping, but I'm not so concerned abuot H DOWing us as G. Anyway, I was thinking, we can switch back to Castes for free and hire a wholle mess of scientists to boost our research at the expense of our production (except for critical builds, such as Sankore, missionaries, wbs, and infrastructure in Brennus Land). MIght as well give our research a kick in the pants, if we don't need the hardware right now anyway. BUilding for G is okay, but he's going to lose half of what we build anyway. We need to get ourselves back in line research-wise.

Set up that worker trail now. We have plenty of workers close to CC, and none of them are really doing anything essential. I have made a little map (yes, I can use Paint too!) on how I suggest we place some workers. While we wait for Gandhi to get a move they can even be useful by improving the tiles.Regarding the worker trail map.
Would it be ok to combine the two western spots into one spot on the hill where the warrior is? Also, move the northern-most one 1E just to discourage any pillaging of the gold mines. Then again, I don't think it really matters much.Okay. Two issues:

What cities do I give away, if G gets greedy? CC>GC>MW>NS>everybloodything?
What's our research path? Finish Educ? What's next?

Plus, what do we want to do with the GG? I could attach him to a Trab and promote him to DrillIV = +3 first strike chances and +4 first strikes!!!

Regarding the worker trail map.
Would it be ok to combine the two western spots into one spot on the hill where the warrior is? Also, move the northern-most one 1E just to discourage any pillaging of the gold mines. Then again, I don't think it really matters much.

They can build roads on my spots... :)

The warrior needs to be moved to the other side of the continent. Else Gandhi won't dare to come after us. :D

Edit: and the archer in CC must evacuate also...

Okay. Two issues:

What cities do I give away, if G gets greedy? CC>GC>MW>NS>everybloodything?
What's our research path? Finish Educ? What's next?


Give away every single city on starting continent as soon as possible. Remember, Gandhi should win, not we. The more cities Gandhi gets, the sooner he takes off in power and research.

Education sounds fine. We could use some universities.

Plus, what do we want to do with the GG? I could attach him to a Trab and promote him to DrillIV = +3 first strike chances and +4 first strikes!!!

City raider is usually better on trebs. But go ahead, it might make an interesting unit.

City raider is usually better on trebs. But go ahead, it might make an interesting unit.Alternatively, I could get to Drill III on a CRI/II treb.
The knight on the east coast is 2 moves away from Isa's sole source of iron (and macemen)
But it's 3 turns to actually pillage the iron mine. Since Isa has War Elephants, this looks like a suicide mission, with the emphasis on suicide. An alternative would be to just empty her coffers, use the knight to attack ex-Barb city if I still get good odds after the IT and do my best against any maces she upgrades.

double post

It's clever to drain Isa' wallet.

I think we should build only workers on our home continent and trail all our cities. Don't build any more units. And move away all military units from Gandhi visual range. IMHO.

Washington and Isa are the only ones at cautious with G. If I wait 2 turns to DOW ISa, I can gift her Compass, Optics, and Astro. I would also have to gift Mehmed Astro, otherwise Isa willl trade with him. Isa still wouldn't have anything that others want, so her only trading option to get Drama, Philo, and Banking would be G for Astro.

Respondez s'il vous plait.

I'm thinking our research path should be to beeline to Liberalism.

Not for the free tech but to get everyone possible into FR asap. The less warring that occurs between AIs, the better for us.

The more I think about this, the more I think it's our No. 1 priority right now. (Of course, establishing our new homeland is essential to achieving that.)

Washington and Isa are the only ones at cautious with G. If I wait 2 turns to DOW ISa, I can gift her Compass, Optics, and Astro. I would also have to gift Mehmed Astro, otherwise Isa willl trade with him. Isa still wouldn't have anything that others want, so her only trading option to get Drama, Philo, and Banking would be G for Astro.

Respondez s'il vous plait.
That sounds fine - I think the Astro genie is out of the bottle now anyway. The only downside is that we have very little naval presence on Isa's east coast - which is where all her coastal cities are.

Alternatively, I could get to Drill III on a CRI/II treb.

Creating a super treb would be fun. But a more practical use would be a Mil Acad in wherever our HE city will be......

Big Pig, I still don't understand why you removed GK. Not sure how encouraging it is for Gandhi to lose his only true friend. Everyone else is at -3 or more due to religion, so he won't be making new friends in a while.

My rationale was that as GK now knew Wash and Hanni (and Mehmed soon also), he wouldn't trade techs with G unless 2 other AIs knew it. In retrospect maybe I was a bit hasty - we could have given him Astro and got him to trade with G as H now nows it also - but at the time I thought the other AIs were some distance from teching Astro. Also, his presence in our homeland offended me.

:gp: I haven't played yet, because I feel totally uncertain on what we want to do next. Maybe it's clear as day to you guys, but not to me.

Here are some calculations:

Mercantilism provides~65 :science:/turn from 20 scientists (now)
-40 :commerce:/turn in lost foreign trade route income and
-6 :commerce:/turn civic cost
Bureaucracy provides
+15 :commerce:/turn in MW
+9 :hammers:/turn in MW (saves 4t for Sankore if we keep MW that long...)
-18 :commerce:/turn military unit costCastes Systems (could) provide143 :science:/turn Maximum scientists causing:
-55 :commerce: (these 2 would need to be optimized) and less :hammers: (I didn't count)
-6 :commerce:/turn civic cost

Maximum research (assuming we don't lose CC to G or other significant income producer)
30% -- With no revolt and max commerce, Educ>Lib in ~22 turns; GS in 17t; Sankore in 23t
40% (equivalent) -- Revolt to Merc, Bureau, max commerce Educ>Lib in ~20 turns; GS in 20t; Sankore in 19t
50% (equivalent) -- Revolt to Merc, Bureau, Castes, max scientists Educ>Lib in ~18 turns; GS in 14t; Sankore in 19t

:gp: I haven't played yet, because I feel totally uncertain on what we want to do next. Maybe it's clear as day to you guys, but not to me.

Here are some calculations:

Mercantilism provides~65 :science:/turn from 20 scientists (now)
-40 :commerce:/turn in lost foreign trade route income and
-6 :commerce:/turn civic cost
Bureaucracy provides
+15 :commerce:/turn in MW
+9 :hammers:/turn in MW (saves 4t for Sankore if we keep MW that long...)
-18 :commerce:/turn military unit costCastes Systems (could) provide143 :science:/turn Maximum scientists causing:
-55 :commerce: (these 2 would need to be optimized) and less :hammers: (I didn't count)
-6 :commerce:/turn civic cost

Maximum research (assuming we don't lose CC to G or other significant income producer)
30% -- With no revolt and max commerce, Educ>Lib in ~22 turns; GS in 17t; Sankore in 23t
40% (equivalent) -- Revolt to Merc, Bureau, max commerce Educ>Lib in ~20 turns; GS in 20t; Sankore in 19t
50% (equivalent) -- Revolt to Merc, Bureau, Castes, max scientists Educ>Lib in ~18 turns; GS in 14t; Sankore in 19t

Merc looks as if it pays for itself from those figures. BUT, will we be able to get a scientist in each city? (ie do we have a library or observatory in each city?) - if not, then the potential gain of Merc will be less.

Would we be better moving our capital to run Bureaucracy? - ie are there any sites (e.g. Karak) where the hammer and/or beaker yield will be better.

CS has the disadvantage of disallowing whipping. I think we may want to whip out quite a bit of infrastructure - especially in the New World.

But it's 3 turns to actually pillage the iron mine. Guess what? On T0 I can use the scout to find out if the iron mine has protection and if Murcia has a War Elephant! That'll be my first move.

On second thought, forget the iron--Isa's getting copper from Mehmed for dyes. Speaking of which, Mehmed's going to be royally po'ed when we DOW Isa.

Creating a super treb would be fun. But a more practical use would be a Mil Acad in wherever our HE city will be......
That's how I tend to operate, that's for sure. Never made my own Warlord yet...

Good point on Isa's E coastal cities. Is that going to be a problem? Do we want Mehmed and Isa drawing even in tech? Maybe it's not worth it?

Isa's getting copper from Mehmed for dyes.

How can you tell what resource deals two AIs are doing? - I haven't figured that one out yet

Merc looks as if it pays for itself from those figures. BUT, will we be able to get a scientist in each city? (ie do we have a library or observatory in each city?) - if not, then the potential gain of Merc will be less. If we need a library or observ to create a free sicentist, totally forget Merc. We only have 5 libraries...

Would we be better moving our capital to run Bureaucracy? - ie are there any sites (e.g. Karak) where the hammer and/or beaker yield will be better. I think we want to lose MW in 20 turns or so, and then the palace will move itself, probably to Madrid, although we could probably doctor it to go to Karak or Bibracte, if we realy wanted.

CS has the disadvantage of disallowing whipping. I think we may want to whip out quite a bit of infrastructure - especially in the New World.Yeah, we lose whipping for 15-20 turns or so, minimally, and we lose the 1-turn protection of whipping units that Gnejs was talking about.

Now you see why I can't decide what we want to do next.How can you tell what resource deals two AIs are doing? - I haven't figured that one out yetIt's in the write-up on differences between Warlords and Vanilla CIV. :p

Just kidding...

Exotic Foreign Advisor, GLANCE tab, hover over the attitude between the 2 AIs and the pop-up window shows their deals at the bottom.

Palace Jumping

Here's the lowdown, folks. PMed ori and he provided me with this:

The game seems to look for the new capital as follows:
it scores each city available (if the old capital is not available that is):

population*4
yield food
yield production *3
yield commerce *2
culture level
number of religions
number of great people (settled) *2

this is summed to iValue

then the percentage of own culture on the city plot is calculated and the following operation is done:

iValue*(CulturePercent+100)/100

the resulting score is kept and whichever city has the highest score wins the palace...

So what this means is that the palace may not jump to Madrid after all, because our culture there will be about 0% when we take it, so the iValue figure will get multiplied by 1, whereas our own cities' iValue will be multiplied by 2. So I suppose our palace will jump to our biggest, most productive city.

Palace Jumping
The game seems to look for the new capital as follows:
it scores each city available (if the old capital is not available that is):

population*4
yield food
yield production *3
yield commerce *2
culture level
number of religions
number of great people (settled) *2

this is summed to iValue

then the percentage of own culture on the city plot is calculated and the following operation is done:

iValue*(CulturePercent+100)/100

the resulting score is kept and whichever city has the highest score wins the palace...

Interesting. There seems scope for manipulation by changing yields (e.g. working low yield tiles temporarily to reduce the odds of a city being chosen as capital) and whipping to temporarily drop pop.

That sounds fine - I think the Astro genie is out of the bottle now anyway. The only downside is that we have very little naval presence on Isa's east coast - which is where all her coastal cities are.

Agree on gifting Astro to Isa. Besides, we have plenty of spare galleons now, we could move 2-3 of them over to the east coast. I am sure that if we start moving now, we can get them there before Isa has produced her first Galleon. If she builds galleons that also means less troops defending.

Interesting. There seems scope for manipulation by changing yields (e.g. working low yield tiles temporarily to reduce the odds of a city being chosen as capital) and whipping to temporarily drop pop.Right, and killing off the AI to double your total...:lol:

Palace Jumping

Here's the lowdown, folks. PMed ori and he provided me with this:

The game seems to look for the new capital as follows:
it scores each city available (if the old capital is not available that is):

population*4
yield food
yield production *3
yield commerce *2
culture level
number of religions
number of great people (settled) *2

this is summed to iValue

then the percentage of own culture on the city plot is calculated and the following operation is done:

iValue*(CulturePercent+100)/100

the resulting score is kept and whichever city has the highest score wins the palace...

So what this means is that the palace may not jump to Madrid after all, because our culture there will be about 0% when we take it, so the iValue figure will get multiplied by 1, whereas our own cities' iValue will be multiplied by 2. So I suppose our palace will jump to our biggest, most productive city.

Very interesting!

@Gnejs, help me on this revolt thing. Look slike Mercantilism is premature if we need libraries weverywhere ot use the specialist. I'm thinking no revolt because any revolt is 2 turns and 2 revolts is 3. WHat do you say?

Most times when I have revolted in my games without a clear advantage, I have regretted it. We loose a lot during anarchy. So, don't switch unless you really need to.

Sell all tech to Isa and Mechmed, then DoW Isa in the same turn - that's :cool:

EDIT: and then we can demand the Gandhi-tech from Isa for peace :lol:

@Gnejs, help me on this revolt thing. Look slike Mercantilism is premature if we need libraries weverywhere ot use the specialist. I'm thinking no revolt because any revolt is 2 turns and 2 revolts is 3. WHat do you say?

Yes, Mercantilism seems premature unless we switch to caste system at the same time.

In a regular game it would be a good move to switch to Mercantilism now. Not for the gains it gives us, but more for the loss of trade income for the ai civs. Since we are the biggest civ now it will hurt them more than us.
But in this game we wan't the ais to become advanced, so we should perhaps avoid mercantilism altogether.

Bureaucracy isn't worth 2 turns of anarchy. So skipping the revolt is fine with me.

Sell all tech to Isa and Mechmed, then DoW Isa in the same turn - that's :cool:BUt you realize it will take T0, T1, and T2 to gift her Astro, right? Only then can I DOW...

BUt you realize it will take T0, T1, and T2 to gift her Astro, right? Only then can I DOW...

Ooops - forgot! :blush:

Well, it's up to you do decide then! You can feel comfort from the fact that whatever you choose, we will complain that it was wrong :lol:

Good luck.

"NOT got it"

My monitor died a half an hour ago. I'll be buying a new one in the next few days, but until then I'm in the dark... :scan: (Right now I'm typing blind--no, I'm using another one that isn't capable of running Warlords...)

@Erkon, what do you say we swap our turnsets?

"NOT got it"

My monitor died a half an hour ago. I'll be buying a new one in the next few days, but until then I'm in the dark... :scan: (Right now I'm typing blind--no, I'm using another one that isn't capable of running Warlords...)

@Erkon, what do you say we swap our turnsets?

Sure, "got it"!

LC, if you don't dare to play, just say so! :D

LC, if you don't dare to play, just say so! :D That's funny, because the truth is, I didn't like this turnset, then my monitor went on the fritz. I was actually kind of relieved...but I probably should be the one doing the turnset, because I'm not sure anyone else can handle it properly...

Turn 0

Changed production in Besh, Old Sarai, New Sarai, Marble City, CC, GC to worker. MW starts University of Sank, Cape Fish starts Knight, then worker. Camulodunum starts hindu miss.

I'm not canceling any deals. Trade improves our relations with the AI, and it helps them to become powerful => faster research => good for Gandhi

Pre tech trade:
Hannibal -2 trade with worst enemy
Mehmed -2
Isa 0
Washington -2

Trade astronomy to Washington gets us Drama, Phil, Banking, World Map & 60 gold.
Sold compass to Isa
Isa has longbowman on iron & Mace + LBM in Santiago (which I will raze)
Murcia has 2 LBM
Salamanca has 2 LBM + crossbow

Turn 1 update
Start courthouse i Bibracte
Great Engineer born in Delhi
Im growing Tolosa as quick as possible to get more gold

Did we come to a conclusion where we will build Heroic Epic? Vienne?

EDIT
no change in relations due to trade
no new tech available
Gandhi has a caravele north of Gergovia moving west - killed by my Galleon (I don't want him to pillage our nets)
Gandhi has open borders with Isa, Wash, Brennus
Sold Optics to Isa for 10 gold
Barcelona has LBM + Pike
Toledo has 2xLBM + pike
Where do we want the chop to go in the Tolosa-Bib-Vienne centre? And to what building?

EDIT2
Sold Music to Hannibal to get his "upgrade stash"

Turn 2
Gandhi complete Angkor Wat
Sold Music to Mehmed for 190 gold
Open borders with Mehmed
Im about giftin Astronomy to Isa, then DoW

Save uploaded (played 2 turns)
Turn log so far

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1136 AD to 1148 AD:

Turn 246, 1136 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: You have discovered Banking!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Hannibal has 320 gold available for trade
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Mehmed II has 200 gold available for trade
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Gandhi has 7 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Karak has grown to size 9
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Brown City will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 4
Turn 246, 1136 AD: The borders of Vienne have expanded!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Heron (Great Engineer) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Gergovia's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 247, 1142 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Gergovia!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Samarqand.
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon (4.00) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Combat Odds: 73.4%
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Your Galleon has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Turfan will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 247, 1142 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Samarqand. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Brown City has grown to size 5
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Camulodunum will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Verlamion will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 247, 1142 AD: The borders of Bibracte have expanded!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: The borders of Gergovia have expanded!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Gandhi has completed Angkor Wat!

Turn 248, 1148 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Commerce City!
Turn 248, 1148 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Brown City.

Don't forget you need to trade Astro to Mehmed also!

Caravels can't pillage nets.....

Don't forget you need to trade Astro to Mehmed also!

Thanks for the reminder! I totally forgot...

Caravels can't pillage nets.....

:wallbash:

The save looks good.

Just a couple of comments:

Verlamion should probably build a CH or missionary rather than an observatory
Bibracte should probably build a market or a harbor for the big commerce boost
Why are you building a settler in Gergovia....?
I'm not convinced as to the benefit of building so many workers in the Old World. Yes, they are nice to give to G - but maybe a bit of infrastructure would be good too?
EDIT: MM - we don't want/need an engineer specialist in Bibracte....

Looking forward to the bloodshed.....

That new WOTM is beating me down, >.<

I hate barbarians




Oh that's right SGOTM, We're doing great guys! :goodjob:

No matter how crappy I do by myself, I can always fall back to "My SGOTM team is destroying" :trophy:

The save looks good.

Just a couple of comments:

Verlamion should probably build a CH or missionary rather than an observatory
Bibracte should probably build a market or a harbor for the big commerce boost
Why are you building a settler in Gergovia....?
I'm not convinced as to the benefit of building so many workers in the Old World. Yes, they are nice to give to G - but maybe a bit of infrastructure would be good too?
EDIT: MM - we don't want/need an engineer specialist in Bibracte....

Looking forward to the bloodshed.....
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate them all.

I don't know who came up with an idea to build the stupid observatory ;) , although I can see the logic (Verlamion will be a mega-research city). And I want to build the missionaries in Gandhi land eventually. The maintenance will drop a lot when we get the FP.
I will start a market after the missionary.
We need a settler to plant the city on the east coast (Vienne East) or Vienne West. I'm concerned that no-one else settles that spot.
I'm really, really desparate to get rid of the cities. We don't have enough workers lure G to our cities as it is now. I may be wrong about the worker trail, but we need to test every strategy possible. I want to give it a chance.
Darn - but I swear that engineer popped up this turn! So, no harm done.


Where shall we build FP? It will be quicker in Bibracte, but I would prefer to build commerce buildings in FP (and wall street eventually). Does anyone know how to get the FP up in Tolosa real quick?

How about making Bibracte our capital, and build the FP in Madrid?

Does anyone know how to get the FP up in Tolosa real quick?FP isn't happening quickly, but the best way involves poprushing and mostly using the iron mine and earns 23:hammers: more than not poprushing:

Pre-poprush phase:

T0: Switch 2f/4g to iron mine (=> pop5 in 4t)
At pop5: Work all mines (=16:hammers:/t; +1:food:) for 2 turns
Poprush for 2 poppoints


Post-poprush phase:

Work cattle, rice, iron 4 turns (=> pop4)
New citizen works 2f/5g for 5t
Switch citizen to grasshillmine 1t (=> pop5)
Work all mines at pop5

Additionally, there are three pre-chops to the NE and N that might go to Tolosa, I don't know. When BP pre-chopped them, they were going to Tolosa and I'm hoping that assignment remains.

The above gets you FP in Tolosa in 29 turns at the latest. Don't think we can get it elsewhere quicker, including Madrid.

When we lose MW, our palace will probably jump to Besh, which is okay, I think until we lose it.

A few other notes:

Gergovia is harder to grow than Vienne having only 1 lame food resource, hence build Missionaries in Gergovia, settler in Vienne. (We don't need barracks in Vienne now cuz we're not building weapons now, or so you said... ;) ).
Build your :commerce: infrastructure in Bibracte (but finish that Miss), and let Gergovia be our Missionary factory (good :hammers:, closest to G);
Assign 2 scientists in MW immediately. The extra 6 :commerce: and extra pop growth in MW is meaningless to us, getting a GS sooner is very important.
Put Hindu missionaries in CC>GC>MW and then in order that you think he'll take the next cities.
After dropping off the army, immediately send a galleon or two or three to the E side of Isabella where they will meet our army to transport it to her southern cities.


Worker trail

Get the worker trail set up asap, meaning you need the whole trail (to GC for example) in place, not just one piece of it. Otherwise G grabs a worker and retreats to his barracks. Don't worry about finishing chops. Send those 3 wkrs from BC down NOW. They've finished their work up there. (Anyway, they're just chopping/wasting G's hammers, not ours.)
Build a road 1 tile E of Kolhapur and then on the hill and over to GC. That way G can move faster. That hill tile is rapidly becoming his and will probably switch sooner or later. It was 39% G, now it's 47%.

A few other notes:

Few indeed :)

Looking good so far, Erkon. But don't worry, I am sure you will screw up royally as usual. :p

Few indeed :)Trying to start a fewd? :lol:

On the HE, I thought we wanted it in some coastal town, such as one of those juciy hammer-rich cities to the S (either Mehmed's or Isa'). That's where we would also put the military academy. Coastal so could build an awesome navy and rule the seas, right?

Barcelona has 17 base :hammers:, Edirne, 20 base :hammers:.

LOL

Here's a good one for you. Want to take Isa's copper away from her? No problem. Want to make suer she likes G better than Mehmed and trades with him. SHouldn't be a problem.

Isabella will DOW Mehmed for Astro, Music, and Drama, leaving Philo, Guilds, and Paper to get from G for Astro.

She loses her source of copper and her best friend.

Of course, she might lose a few S cities too, but that also keeps Mehmed off of Washington's case for a while.

It also gets Mehmed into war mode just before we want to go down on him, so I don't think it's really what we want, but it's a funny thought.

A few other notes:

Put Hindu missionaries in CC>GC>MW and then in order that you think he'll take the next cities.

Maybe MW first? Then MW can churn out Hindu Missionaries to spread elesewhere. Depends how long you think G will take to follow the worker trail to CC

Here's a good one for you. Want to take Isa's copper away from her? No problem. Want to make suer she likes G better than Mehmed and trades with him. SHouldn't be a problem.

Isabella will DOW Mehmed for Astro, Music, and Drama, leaving Philo, Guilds, and Paper to get from G for Astro.

She loses her source of copper and her best friend.

Of course, she might lose a few S cities too, but that also keeps Mehmed off of Washington's case for a while.

It also gets Mehmed into war mode just before we want to go down on him, so I don't think it's really what we want, but it's a funny thought.
Actually, that's a great idea. The goal is to get folk to trade with G - that would be prefect. In fact, we don't even need to gift Astro to Mehmed now. Lets do it!!!

Maybe MW first? Then MW can churn out Hindu Missionaries to spread elesewhere. Depends how long you think G will take to follow the worker trail to CC

Actually, that's a great idea. The goal is to get folk to trade with G - that would be prefect. In fact, we don't even need to gift Astro to Mehmed now. Lets do it!!!

I prefer if MW can build the Sankore-wonder. When the current batch of missionaries are done in Brennus-lands, we can build them in soon-to-be-Gandhi-land.

If we get Mehmed and Isa into war, there is a risk that town-tiles will be pillaged. That means we may end up with a war with Mehmed to prevent him from pillaging Isabella tiles. There won't be any cities switching ownership betweem Isa and Mehmed, I can promise that!

Maybe MW first? My main concern is Judaism spreading before our Misses arrive and then having to make 2 or 3 per city just to get it in there. So I think we should plant them closest to Bombay first (GC or CC, but I prioritize CC).

Actually, that's a great idea. The goal is to get folk to trade with G - that would be prefect. In fact, we don't even need to gift Astro to Mehmed now. Lets do it!!! It SEEMS perfect, doesn't it? But maybe it's really not...this game is all a$$-backwards...

If we get Mehmed and Isa into war, there is a risk that town-tiles will be pillaged. That means we may end up with a war with Mehmed to prevent him from pillaging Isabella tiles. There won't be any cities switching ownership betweem Isa and Mehmed, I can promise that!Good point on the pillaging, Erkon. In general I think it's a fun idea, but for our game, I think we want the AIs DOWing as little as possible. Especially Mehmed, because we want to take him out asap, IMHO. We want to beef up Washington at our ealiest possible opportunity.

Question on Brown City

Are we really in a hurry to give it up to G? Would we rather keep it and build the Space Elevator in it? Just a thought...

I plan to gift all to Isa for DoW on Mehmed. Then I DoW the b***c, take Madrid and, if necessary, police the border. Finally - Kill'em! Kill'em all!!!

I plan to gift all to Isa for DoW on Mehmed. Then I DoW the b***c, take Madrid and, if necessary, police the border. Finally - Kill'em! Kill'em all!!! you forgot: :aargh: :aargh: :aargh: Okay, but you're kidding about gift all, right? YOu only need to gift astro, music, and drama. You want her to be missing enough techs that G can get Astro from her...

Okay, but you're kidding about gift all, right? YOu only need to gift astro, music, and drama. You want her to be missing enough techs that G can get Astro from her...

LC, pay no attention to Erkon. I spoke with him on the phone, he was sitting in his back yard having a beer (or more likely too many). Let's just pray he is incapable of starting up Civ until earliest tomorrow afternoon. :D

LC, pay no attention to Erkon. I spoke with him on the phone, he was sitting in his back yard having a beer (or more likely too many). Let's just pray he is incapable of starting up Civ until earliest tomorrow afternoon. :D

Too late!!!!

But I'm playing WOTM8 to get into conquest mood :lol:

Will play SWOTM when kids (and wife) are in bed

Let's just pray
:religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion: :religion:
Too late!!!!:religion:

End of turn 2 update
Bribed Isa to DoW on Mehmed
Then :viking: :backstab: :queen: :mwaha: :rockon:

Turn 3
Hinduism in CC

Turn 4
Razed Santiago (no units lost)

Turn 5
Education done - set research to 0% for a while (Liberalism is 23 turns at 20%)
Captured Madrid (lost 96.8% battle, rest wins)
Madrid has Aqueduct, Academy, Market and Courthouse. There's 11 turns of resistance. At that time the war against Isa may be over. Perhaps we should whip FP there? It will cost us 7 pop I think (300 hammers) if we build it for one turn.

Worker trail setup.

Gandhi still needs astronomy :(

Then :viking: :backstab: :queen: :mwaha: :rockon: Beautifully put!!
Captured Madrid (lost 96.8% battle, rest wins)
Madrid has Aqueduct, Academy, Market and Courthouse. There's 11 turns of resistance. At that time the war against Isa may be over. Perhaps we should whip FP there? It will cost us 7 pop I think (300 hammers) if we build it for one turn.

Would we not be better getting the Palace in Madrid? It will be a commerce powerhouse - ideal for Bureaucracy

Would we not be better getting the Palace in Madrid? It will be a commerce powerhouse - ideal for Bureaucracy

Sure, Madrid is better as capital. I just wanted to raise the issue. How about building the FP in Karak, and whip the palace in Madrid then? Ooops, have I suggested this before? :lol:

Sure, Madrid is better as capital. I just wanted to raise the issue. How about building the FP in Karak, and whip the palace in Madrid then? Ooops, have I suggested this before? :lol:

Yep - the idea of an FP in Karak sucked then too..... :p

Excellent stuff, Erkon. Keep it up!!! DOn't leave anything for Gnejs, not Isa, not Mehmed...

Sure, Madrid is better as capital. I just wanted to raise the issue. How about building the FP in Karak, and whip the palace in Madrid then? Ooops, have I suggested this before? :lol:

Yep - the idea of an FP in Karak sucked then too..... :pThat's cold, BP. YOu might hurt Erkon's feelings. You need to work on your diplomacy:

Gee, Erkon, I know the micromanagement in Tolosa is aggravating, but it's in everyone's best interest to put the FP in a relatively central location to minimize our distance costs, so

STOP MESSING AROUND AND DO IT.

End of turn 2 update
Bribed Isa to DoW on Mehmed
Then :viking: :backstab: :queen: :mwaha: :rockon:

Turn 3
Hinduism in CC

Turn 4
Razed Santiago (no units lost)

Turn 5
Education done - set research to 0% for a while (Liberalism is 23 turns at 20%)
Captured Madrid (lost 96.8% battle, rest wins)
Madrid has Aqueduct, Academy, Market and Courthouse. There's 11 turns of resistance. At that time the war against Isa may be over. Perhaps we should whip FP there? It will cost us 7 pop I think (300 hammers) if we build it for one turn.

Worker trail setup.

Gandhi still needs astronomy :(



Nice work with Isa, but still no progress with Gandhi then. :(

I think killing Gandhis units earlier is costing us now. We need to bring up his confidence. Once the first batch of workers are done, build some work boats and the weakest military units possible, and suicide these against his longbow in the new city or against Delhi. We need to start losing lots of units to Gandhi so he thinks he is winning the war again. That might get him on the offensive.

Nice work with Isa, but still no progress with Gandhi then. :(

I think killing Gandhis units earlier is costing us now. We need to bring up his confidence. Once the first batch of workers are done, build some work boats and the weakest military units possible, and suicide these against his longbow in the new city or against Delhi. We need to start losing lots of units to Gandhi so he thinks he is winning the war again. That might get him on the offensive.We have some warriors still, I think, we could suicide.

G still doesn't have a holy shrine but now has a couple of wonders that produce GP points, so let's hope for one and hopefully he'll make it the Jewish shrine. I think we want to poprush the Jewish Missionary in Turfan and put him in a city where we can spam more. THen we should put them in the cities we most want G to capture: CC>MW>Karak>Besh. If he gets the shrine we can leave those cities unguarded for his viewing pleasure.

AIs are more attracted to cities with Wonders, supposedly. I'd try for Hagia Sophia in CC. If nothing else, we get cash or lose CC first.

We also want to be selective in what cities to give G, perhaps, for his WW. We don't want him to have killer WW. No need to lead him to garbage cities, like NS, Turfan, etc. The most valuable cities for G at this point in the game are: CC, GC, Karak, Besh. Those are commercial powerhouses. We want to give up MW also to move our palace down S, because G probably won't capture Karak and Besh for an eternity...

I need to work tonight, will complete my turnset tomorrow

I need to work tonight, will complete my turnset tomorrowbuah buah buh buh buh buah buuaaaahhhhhhh ;)

buah buah buh buh buh buah buuaaaahhhhhhh ;)

English is a strange language.... ;)

English is a strange language.... ;)
LC doesn't speak English, he speaks American - an entirely different animal

English is a strange language.... ;)That's Swedish with an American accent.

Monga tuson tak.

Monga tuson tak.
I've been trying to work out this anagram for several hours now, but I give up

I've been trying to work out this anagram for several hours now, but I give up

It means "thanks a lot"

Or rather "Many thousand thanks"

Or rather "Many thousand roofs"

:lol:

Correct phrase is: Tusen tack!

But the original phrase was good enough to convey they intention.

I've been trying to work out this anagram for several hours now, but I give upSorry about that. I suppose what you missed is that in my original PMs inviting Erkon and Gnejs to join us, I mentioned that my father's parents were Swedish emigrants to the U.S. I never learned Swedish, but I picked up a few words when we visited "the Homeland."

My favorite, of course, is the Swedish word for 6, which I won't write out, so I don't subject myself to the wrath of the Viking God of Spelling... :lol:

Or rather "Many thousand roofs"

:blush:

Or rather "Many thousand roofs"


Or, with that spelling (tuson) almost "Many damned roofs" :lol:

Sorry about that. I suppose what you missed is that in my original PMs inviting Erkon and Gnejs to join us, I mentioned that my father's parents were Swedish emigrants to the U.S. I never learned Swedish, but I picked up a few words when we visited "the Homeland."

My favorite, of course, is the Swedish word for 6, which I won't write out, so I don't subject myself to the wrath of the Viking God of Spelling... :lol:


:D

Another favourite is the swedish word for union: fack. Pronounced as, well, you get it don't you? :)

It is always laugh when someone is trying to explain to a foreigner the benefit of joining a labor union. "We have a great fack here, you should really join" :lol:

I need to work tonight, will complete my turnset tomorrow

Well, now you have had more than 24 hours and there is still no progress. Waster!

;)

:D

Another favourite is the swedish word for union: fack. Pronounced as, well, you get it don't you? :)

It is always laugh when someone is trying to explain to a foreigner the benefit of joining a labor union. "We have a great fack here, you should really join" :lol:

Another meaning for "fack" is box/slot/container. One of the most memorable moments at Ericsson was when our boss was introducing a new employee from Ireland to us at a meeting. Next to the meeting room we had the snail mail boxes. So, when the presentation was over, the boss told him that outside, "you have the post fack".

Well, now you have had more than 24 hours and there is still no progress. Waster!

;)

There is progress, but not much. Turn 6 was rather un-eventful. But a thought struck - why don't we adopt hinduism as state religion? We add 25% production to the buildings, and we will get the FP up quicker.

I just noticed one thing in the save - we now have the map over Gandhi homelands. Probably got it from Washington in a trade.

Turn 7
Gandhi has 6 longbowmen, 2 war elephants, 3 trebs, 1 pike, 1 caravel, 2 galleys, 1 settler, 1 jew and 1 worker in Delhi.

He has another caravel just south of Delhi and one inside Philadelphia.

Isa has a Galleon 2N of Kazak (east coast)

I sunk an Isa-trireme next to Phil.

Hannibal has sent a settler to island east of stone. Not good.

Turn 8
Seville has fallen (granary)
Galleon with three workers otw to Gandhi
Is it possible to attack Gandhi caravel in Phil? I don't get any odds, but I think I would loose the battle :)
I have stopped mid-turn and want to know if you think I should play another two turns or hand over? There's more fighting to do.

I've spread jewism to Marble City and plan to build jew missionaries there.

The hindu miss failed to spread in GC :(

Gandhi is sending a workboat up the canal.

Turn 8
Seville has fallen (granary)
Galleon with three workers otw to Gandhi
Is it possible to attack Gandhi caravel in Phil? I don't get any odds, but I think I would loose the battle :)
I have stopped mid-turn and want to know if you think I should play another two turns or hand over? There's more fighting to do.

I've spread jewism to Marble City and plan to build jew missionaries there.

The hindu miss failed to spread in GC :(

Gandhi is sending a workboat up the canal.

Carry on if you want (you doubtless have plenty of mistakes to rectify....)

If we have OB with Wash you should be able to attack G's caravel with a naval or land unit in Phil (the land unit will automatically win tho'...)

But a thought struck - why don't we adopt hinduism as state religion? We add 25% production to the buildings, and we will get the FP up quicker.This seems like a good idea. Is there any reason not to? Like decreased attitude values with people? I haven't checked the save, but I don't think we need to worry to much about that do we? BUt we don't want to lose any forest chop hammers during the anarchy.

EDIT: If you haven't poprushed the CH in Tolosa yet, definitely decide on this switch before that, because that's an extra 22:hammers: all by itself.

Hannibal has sent a settler to island east of stone. Not good.I saw that possibility. Guess there's not much we can do about it.

Ha! So much for my monitor being broken. A friend dropped by to look at my Black Screen of Death. All the cables were plugged in right. He unplugged the monitor and sat there looking it over. Said it was a good monitor and I ought to get it fixed. Then he plugged it back in, said, maybe it just needed to get reset.

Fired it up, worked like a charm... :blush:

And I was ready to go by a new one. He insisted I wait till he took a look at it. Gnejs, do I officially qualify as an IDIOT yet?

I have stopped mid-turn and want to know if you think I should play another two turns or hand over? There's more fighting to do.Play some more, kill some more. plunder some more. 8 turns is not enough. It's going to take us forever to finish this.

Ha! So much for my monitor being broken. A friend dropped by to look at my Black Screen of Death. All the cables were plugged in right. He unplugged the monitor and sat there looking it over. Said it was a good monitor and I ought to get it fixed. Then he plugged it back in, said, maybe it just needed to get reset.

Fired it up, worked like a charm... :blush:

And I was ready to go by a new one. He insisted I wait till he took a look at it. Gnejs, do I officially qualify as an IDIOT yet?

:eek: :lol:

Yeah, I vote for LC as this weeks official IDIOT. Erkon, stop sulking, you can have your title back next week. :p

Doh! I accidently killed the Gandhi Caravel in Phil.:wallbash:

Sign me up for the Idiot award

At least there is some good news: Gandhi has Education :) No other AI has it.

I uploaded the save. Good news! Gandhi has Astronomy!!

The war against Isabella is not progressing as well as it could due to lack of siege weaponry. Very few units are lost though.

I adopted Hinduism and landed three workers on Gandhi land :)

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1148 AD to 1196 AD:

Turn 248, 1148 AD: Isabella has declared war on Mehmed II!
Turn 248, 1148 AD: You have declared war on Isabella!
Turn 248, 1148 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Samarqand. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 248, 1148 AD: Hannibal adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 249, 1154 AD: Hinduism has spread in Commerce City.
Turn 249, 1154 AD: Mehmed II's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (3.42)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Combat Odds: 66.2%
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Maceman (4.95)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Combat Odds: 96.9%
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 26 (67/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 26 (41/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 26 (15/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Maceman!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Horse Archer (3.56)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (62/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (32/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (2/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Horse Archer!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: You have captured Santiago!!!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: You have destroyed the city of Santiago!!!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: You have discovered Education!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: You have trained a Worker in Besh. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.

Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (6.00)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 86.6%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (7.50)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 66.2%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Pikeman (3.75)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Pikeman is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Pikeman is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Pikeman is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Pikeman is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Pikeman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (9.60) vs Isabella's Swordsman (4.61)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Swordsman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Swordsman (4.61)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 98.9%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Swordsman is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Swordsman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (9.60) vs Isabella's Horse Archer (5.45)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 96.8%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (10/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 15 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer has defeated Murky Waters's Berserker!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) (8.80) vs Isabella's Horse Archer (1.45)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Isabella's Horse Archer is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Murky Waters's Georgy Zhukov (Berserker) has defeated Isabella's Horse Archer!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have captured Madrid!!!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have trained a Worker in Commerce City. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have trained a Worker in Marble City. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have trained Jewish Missionary in Turfan. Work has now begun on a Trading Post.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Gergovia. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.

Turn 252, 1172 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Seville to 85%!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: You have trained a Worker in New Sarai. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Stone Island will grow to size 2 on the next turn

Turn 253, 1178 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 79%!
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 67%!
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 58%!
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Seville to 46%!
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel (3.60) vs Isabella's Trireme (2.20)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Combat Odds: 95.9%
Turn 253, 1178 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Isabella's Trireme is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Isabella's Trireme is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Isabella's Trireme is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Isabella's Trireme is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Murky Waters's Caravel has defeated Isabella's Trireme!
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Karak will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Samarqand will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 253, 1178 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Bibracte. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 253, 1178 AD: Stone Island has grown to size 2

Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Hindu Missionary has failed to spread ? in Gold City!!!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 34%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 28%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 22%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 16%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 13%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Seville to 7%!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (3.57)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 63.5%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Trebuchet has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (3.28)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 68.6%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (71/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (50/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (29/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (8/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Trebuchet has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Trebuchet has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Maceman (4.80)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 97.3%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 25 (61/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 25 (36/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 25 (11/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Maceman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (3.93)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 28 (56/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 28 (28/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (3.51)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 29 (55/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 29 (26/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Knight (11.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (6.15)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Combat Odds: 97.2%
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (Plot Defense: +7%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (36/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (14/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters's Knight has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Knight has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: You have captured Seville!!!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Judaism has spread in Marble City.
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Your Caravel has destroyed a Caravel! <==== Stupid!!!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Murky Waters converts to Hinduism!
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Gandhi has 8 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 254, 1184 AD: Isabella has 3 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 254, 1184 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 254, 1184 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Isabella
Turn 254, 1184 AD: A Jungle has grown near Marble City!

Turn 255, 1190 AD: Karak has grown to size 12
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Besh has grown to size 12
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Ning-hsia will grow to size 8 on the next turn
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Samarqand has grown to size 6
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Bibracte has grown to size 14
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Bibracte has become unhappy
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Stone Island's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 94%!
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 88%!
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 82%!
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 76%!
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon (4.00) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.20)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Combat Odds: 98.7%
Turn 256, 1196 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Galleon has destroyed a Galley!


Good luck next player.

Good work :goodjob: - we will soon be running out of wars to fight.

LC is up next with his newly working monitor. It would be great if you could get a few turns played this weekend as we need to get thing moving along a bit (erkon was far too slow....)

Do we go for Liberalism or let G get it? It looks as if G is preparing for war - hopefully to invade us :)

Excellent turnset, Erkon! :goodjob: Excellent job on trading G Astronomy! :scan: For that you are immediately dismembered. (from the Idiot Club--as the new President, I have 100% authority to make personnel decisions)

One point: I don't think sacrificing our workers gives G any confidence points in terms of war battles won, which, if true, means those wkrs will be wasted, but no biggie.

Since G now seems to be cooking technologically, maybe we're not in a panic to give him our cities, although we still want it to happen asap. I think most important is attempting to keep Hannibal from DOWing us, G or Washington. Hannibal is currently at -6 (annoyed) with Isabella, but may still consider Washington his worst enemy, not sure. I think we may want to keep Isabella alive till H goes FR (if he does).

Erkon, thanks for leaving me two stacks in glorious positions, N and S.

I propose we go in this direction:

S stack to capture Barcelona>Toledo>DOW Mehmed>Edirne
N stack to capture Cordoba>Salamanca>Khazak(raze)>DOW and finish off Brennus

timing the DOW on Mehmed with DOP with Isabella and leaving her only Murcia (and suffer the "Yearn to join our Motherland" unhappiness for a while).

What say ye heathens?

" Got it "

I propose we go in this direction:

S stack to capture Barcelona>Toledo>DOW Mehmed>Edirne
N stack to capture Cordoba>Salamanca>Khazak(raze)>DOW and finish off Brennus

timing the DOW on Mehmed with DOP with Isabella and leaving her only Murcia (and suffer the "Yearn to join our Motherland" unhappiness for a while).

Do we really want to DOW Mehmed? And if we do, do we really want to do so now?
The tech rate will be faster, the more AIs there are. And taking Mehmed's land will put us in an even more perilous economic position than we already are (at least until G takes over all our Old World cities)

On a more prosaic note, I think 2 cows are probably enough - you could cancel the trade deal that gets us our 3rd cow.... (is this a Hinduism thing...?)

One point: I don't think sacrificing our workers gives G any confidence points in terms of war battles won, which, if true, means those wkrs will be wasted, but no biggie.

Perhaps we could send a few warriors, archers and chariots to attack G?

(erkon was far too slow....)

Do we go for Liberalism or let G get it? It looks as if G is preparing for war - hopefully to invade us :)

Yeah, I know. I had to work instead of playing Civ :(

I think we should let G get Liberalism. It's a favourite for Gandhi, so I'm sure he's focusing on it.

One point: I don't think sacrificing our workers gives G any confidence points in terms of war battles won, which, if true, means those wkrs will be wasted, but no biggie.

I honestly don't know, but I wanted to try it. Capturing workers from the AI at the start of a game has an impact on how reluctant the AI is to accept peace.

On a more prosaic note, I think 2 cows are probably enough - you could cancel the trade deal that gets us our 3rd cow.... (is this a Hinduism thing...?)

I left some deals open to improve relations.

Perhaps we could send a few warriors, archers and chariots to attack G?

I have a longbowman enroute. The idea is to make an amphibous attack, which we will surely loose. And the injured caravel can perhaps loose a battle as well?

Here is some stuff that might shed light on getting G to attack us. It seems that he's not likely to build units, but if he has enough of them, he's more likely to use them.

Bottom line, we need to get him to build more units. Maybe we should put an SOD next to each of his cities, to scare the living bejesus out of him? (But the SOD's should have powerful defenders so he wouldn't just attack futilely.



this post by Blake in the Better AI Mod threads might be interesting for you as well (and fits into the personality stuff, so why not repost it here ;) )


Here are the "Bastard Charts" to show which leaders are the biggest scumbags, according to their probability of training units, their probability of declaring war, their probability of shamelessly dogpiling and finally their probability of declaring war at Pleased - the Total column is basically their "Bastard Rating" - the higher the total, the more likely they'll cause trouble. For all numbers, bigger means badder.
(A 0% of dogpiling does not mean a 0% of him dogpiling you - it'll just be a total war rather than a dogpile war - however 0% at pleased DOES mean a 0% chance of declaring war - it wont happen unless the AI decided to declare before becoming pleased)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3615/bastadchatsbh3.png

The winner is Ragnar, being highest or highest equal across the board - except in attacking those he is pleased with (only one is higher).

There are some anomalies - Mehmed despite having SOME nice personality traits (respects friends) is actually a big warmonger - call him an Honorable Warmonger, Brennus is like his little brother. Don't trust these guys unless they're actually pleased.

Catherine and Isabella both have fairly low train units - but are also very shameless in declaring war, making them the incompetent backstabbing b*tches we know and love. However Isabella also has her obnoxious personality working against her - making her both more likely to declare war, and more incompetently (catherine is more likely to wait for a position of strength).

Elizabeth is generally peaceful, but does have a chance of declaring war at peace but more importantly has an incredibly high probability of sliding a knife in your back if you are distracted - Roosevelt has an identical warring personality (good job...), fortunately both these leaders have low unit training probabilities so they may be too timid to attack (which is why they are backstabbers). Asoka is also something of a closet bastard but does respect his friends. And actually many leaders, such as Mansa Musa, will just decide to up and attack people they are pleased with - the dice rolls make it that way. Just because SOME peaceful AI's will do this shameless backstabbing rarely, does not mean that Hatty or Ramsesses will - those two are much more pleasant (not all peacemongers are XML'd equally...).

BP's question about DOWing Mehmed made me think. There are two competing factors we're playing with:
increasing the likelihood an AI will trade a tech by eliminating AIs, and
decreasing the cost of researching a tech by having more AIs know the tech.
Unfortunately, timewise, this goes in reverse--when AIs stop trading with each other in the Modern Era, it's in our interest to have as many AIs in existence, knowing techs, to make them cheaper for Gandhi. So we have a dilemma.

Our Dilemma
Currently, AIs will want 2 other players to know a tech before they'll trade it. To get that down to 1, we'd have to eliminate Brennus, Isabella, and Mehmed.

Once we eliminate an AI, we can't bring it back. OTOH, if not enough AIs know a tech, we can gift it, assuming we know the tech. So logically, we have more control over these two factors if we keep the AI's alive. (Note that specific AIs don't have to be researching any tech themselves, they just have to have the techs... :lol: )

Best End-game Strategy?
This makes me think that our best end-game strategy would be to just haul @$$ up the tech chart and keep trading-gifting techs to keep the tech pace lightning quick.

Two Research Centers

Our FP in Tolosa is nicely situated for a clump of cities including both Brennus' and Isa's land.
If G ever comes and takes MW, no probs, the Palace hops to Besh or Karak, I think, meanwhile, we have CHs there minimizing maintenance costs.

Gifting Cities to Gandhi
We want G to take our cities for 2 purposes: faster tech research and building space parts. The northern hemisphere is hammer rich for the space parts.

Research Path Priorities
The priorities I can think of are:

Liberalism/Free Religion which tends to makes AIs join the lovefest
Democracy/Emancipation and half-priced cottages
Assembly Line to get G building his factories asap
Industrialism to know where the aluminum is.
Plastics to build the 3 Gorges Dam for G
Robotics/Space Elevator if we want to try to build it in Brown City and then gift him that city
Mass Media/ United Nations to pass a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement(?)
EDIT: Communism/State Property(?) to turn Brown CIty into a SuperMegaProd Center with workshops.
Summary
I think we may be focusing a bit too much on G and letting our tech speed slide. Instead, we should focus our attention on warring for our tech research needs (building two nice research centers) along with a solid military production center.

We can let G go for Liberalism, if we want, but then I say we go for Economics and the GM. In either case, I think we want to somehow get to Democracy asap, and then go down the industrial side of the Tech Chart. I think we'll be able to trade with Hannibal and Mehmed for all the military techs. EDIT2: Actually, this may be a problem, because only those two knowing Chemistry won't be enough. A third will have to know it...hm... Whereas: Whatever G researches, only 1 other has to know before he'll trade it. So the million-Euro question is:

What tech path will Washington follow? Anyone know?

EDIT: In terms of our cities, I think we want to focus on building research facilities and growing our cities to their maximum population and getting the citizens working cottages.

In terms of percentages, if we give a tech to Hannibal and Washington that G still needs to research, he'll research it 11% faster. If we gift that tech to all 5 AIs, G will research it 22% faster.

1 player knows it--3% faster
2--7%
3--11%
4--15%
5--18%
6--22%
7--26%

So, by eliminating GK we have already perhaps achieved a certain optimum. We have lost 4% in how much we can reduce G's research speed, but we have reduced the number of AIs that need to know the tech before trading from 3 to 2.

Tech Research Explained

On a more prosaic note, I think 2 cows are probably enough - you could cancel the trade deal that gets us our 3rd cow.... (is this a Hinduism thing...?)Erkon, don't get too hung up on BP. He wouldn't even have noticed if we had trades for 3 pigs... ;)

Guess I'll play later on today, whether you wasters report in or not.... I understand up in Sweden you have to take advantage of each of the 27 days of summer weather you get.

JERFit, no excuses for you, unless you're taking advantage of one of the 3 days of winter you get.

Guess I'll play later on today, whether you wasters report in or not....
We were just waiting for you to come up with a concrete and constructive plan for the turnset :p
and then slate it.....

Turnset Plan

Take Isabella a few more times, leaving her only Murcia, if I get that far.
Continue building New World infrastructure and population
Chop any forest E of Tolosa that Mehmed doesn't grab with his settler
Move an SOD to some useless tile next to the G city on our side of the canal
Research Economics
Build research facitilites in Karak and Besh
Cry when H settles next to those horses 1 turn before our Stone Island culture expands...
Leave Gnejs with an irresistable temptation to slaughter Mehmed
Prosaic detail: Attempt to trade for a monopoly on the world supply of cattle

Turnset Plan

Take Isabella a few more times, leaving her only Murcia, if I get that far.
Continue building New World infrastructure and population
Chop any forest E of Tolosa that Mehmed doesn't grab with his settler
Move an SOD to some useless tile next to the G city on our side of the canal
Research Economics
Build research facitilites in Karak and Besh
Cry when H settles next to those horses 1 turn before our Stone Island culture expands...
Leave Gnejs with an irresistable temptation to slaughter Mehmed
Prosaic detail: Attempt to trade for a monopoly on the world supply of cattle

All sounds good....

What tech path will Washington follow? Anyone know?Each leader has 1-2 flavours...

Okay, I have found this in the XML.

Flavors (Modifier for building and tech preferences, the higher the value, the higher the preference evidently)
Gandhi--Culture 10
Hannibal--Military 5; Gold 2
Mehmed--Military 5; Cultural 2
Washington--Military 5; Growth 2

So my conclusion from this is that Washington is more likely to tech toward Gunpowder, Rifling, Chemistry, so we ought to make that assumption and tech down the industrial side along with G.

What's that I hear? The deafening roar of silence??? Maybe we should change the name of our team to The Conch Shells...

Okay, I have found this in the XML.

Flavors (Modifier for building and tech preferences, the higher the value, the higher the preference evidently)
Gandhi--Culture 10
Hannibal--Military 5; Gold 2
Mehmed--Military 5; Cultural 2
Washington--Military 5; Growth 2

So my conclusion from this is that Washington is more likely to tech toward Gunpowder, Rifling, Chemistry, so we ought to make that assumption and tech down the industrial side along with G.

What's that I hear? The deafening roar of silence??? Maybe we should change the name of our team to The Conch Shells...
This ties in with Iustus' post in the thread about GP tech preferences. Ideally we need a list of the flavors given to each tech - but I haven't seen this anywhere. With a predom military flavor for each of the remaining AIs (except G) it is a fair bet that they will all go down the gunpowder and rifling route as LC suggests.

Where will G go next? Based on the techs that seem to have a high cultural flavor, Printing Press>Liberalism>Sci Method seems a strong possibility. I don't think econ has a strong cultural flavor, so hopefully G will leave the way open to us teching it first.

This ties in with Iustus' post in the thread about GP tech preferences. Ideally we need a list of the flavors given to each tech - but I haven't seen this anywhere.Thanks for reminding me about this. Once upon a time Idownloaded the xml, but can't find it on my computer and can't find where it can be downloaded from.

Think you can find the link to download the complete xml for CIV?

Think you can find the link to download the complete xml for CIV?
Unfortunately I am completely computer illiterate and wouldn't recognize an xml if I tripped over one :blush:

Never mind. Found them. Of course they're already on my computer--can't play the game without them...d'oh! They contain all the tech flavors you were talking about. Interesting stuff...

Where will G go next? Based on the techs that seem to have a high cultural flavor, Printing Press>Liberalism>Sci Method seems a strong possibility. I don't think econ has a strong cultural flavor, so hopefully G will leave the way open to us teching it first.I looked at the code for this and if I understand it, the AI will get a random number from 0 to 3199 for a tech with a free GL to the first to discover (for Econ), and similarly get a RNG 0-3199 for the Free Tech (Lib). G will get 1000 for having his cultural flavor for Liberalism (Econ = 0 cultural). ANother factor is that there seems to also be an additive factor for new civics, which I totally couldn't grasp. But that might favor Lib since it opens 2 civics to Econ's 1.

The above numbers are all on top of an initial random number from 0-1999 assigned to each tech G is considering. So there's quite a variation of possibilities between Lib and Econ for G. Lib could win 6199-1 (they all start with 1) or lose 5199-1001. :p

It must be a royal pain in the rump being an AI. You want to get that free tech and the RNG sends you off to get that GM...

Here's the code on civics if any of you guys can read c++:for (iJ = 0; iJ < GC.getNumCivicInfos(); iJ++)
{

if (GC.getCivicInfo((CivicTypes)iJ).getTechPrereq() == iI)
{
iValue += 200;
int iCurrentCivicValue = AI_civicValue(getCivics((CivicOptionTypes)(GC.getC ivicInfo((CivicTypes)iJ).getCivicOptionType())));
int iNewCivicValue = AI_civicValue((CivicTypes)iJ);

if (iNewCivicValue > iCurrentCivicValue)
{
iValue += min(1200, (2400 * (iNewCivicValue - iCurrentCivicValue)) / max(1, iCurrentCivicValue));
}

}

}It looks like iValue gets incremented by at least 1200 for the new civic, but alas, I'm not sure when this applies...

Can't get any peace today--don't want to do anything truly idiotic. I'll play first thing in the morning (Monday).

Just back home after another weekend offline. Erkon, nice work - except for killing that Caravel of Gandhi. :gripe:

I don't think we should attack Mehmed. From a quick read, I didn't see much support for this idea anyway, except for LC (you warmonger! :D ). Maybe later, but now we need to get our new lands into shape. So, focus on research and infrastructure.
My feeling (without having looked at the latest save or indeed thought much about the game lately) is that we have two options:
1. Dominate the world militarily. This is only good for removing competitors to Gandhi.
2. Dominate the world research-wise. Much better, can gift techs or trade to improve the general tech pace, can translate into military might if necessary.

Turnset Plan

Take Isabella a few more times, leaving her only Murcia, if I get that far.
Continue building New World infrastructure and population
Chop any forest E of Tolosa that Mehmed doesn't grab with his settler
Move an SOD to some useless tile next to the G city on our side of the canal
Research Economics
Build research facitilites in Karak and Besh
Cry when H settles next to those horses 1 turn before our Stone Island culture expands...
Leave Gnejs with an irresistable temptation to slaughter Mehmed
Prosaic detail: Attempt to trade for a monopoly on the world supply of cattle


Sounds great, except for one thing:

Move an SOD to some useless tile next to the G city on our side of the canal

No, no, no. This would be a big mistake. If an AI spots a SOD at the other side of the world, he will not leave his cities. LC, make sure you do not try this. Instead, make the continent clinically clean of military units. Especially any tile that is visible to Gandhi.

Sounds great, except for one thing:

Move an SOD to some useless tile next to the G city on our side of the canal

No, no, no. This would be a big mistake. If an AI spots a SOD at the other side of the world, he will not leave his cities. LC, make sure you do not try this. Instead, make the continent clinically clean of military units. Especially any tile that is visible to Gandhi.Fine with me, but my sense is that somehow we need to trigger a build-military-units response in G, because he's not likely to do it otherwise. He'll just continue to happily build his observatories, universities, etc..., which isn't bad, except he only has 7 cities and needs 6 unis for Oxford and so 0-1 military production city.

Fine with me, but my sense is that somehow we need to trigger a build-military-units response in G, because he's not likely to do it otherwise. He'll just continue to happily build his observatories, universities, etc..., which isn't bad, except he only has 7 cities and needs 6 unis for Oxford and so 0-1 military production city.

From your chart, he has a 15% probability to train a unit. I guess there are situational modifiers to this but it seems risky to gamble on a move that _may possibly_ increase this, but at the same time is _almost certain_, from my experience, to tie up lots of units in his cities.

We only need him to get one loose unit on our side of the canal, and the worker trail should do the trick.

Fine with me, but my sense is that somehow we need to trigger a build-military-units response in G, because he's not likely to do it otherwise. He'll just continue to happily build his observatories, universities, etc..., which isn't bad, except he only has 7 cities and needs 6 unis for Oxford and so 0-1 military production city.

Gandhi has started building an army, although it's the "pathetic-army-we-usually-see-Gnejs-field" type. The new AI tie up more units in cities, so I am afraid that Gandhi will keep his units in his cities. How about langing 10 berserkers next to Delhi? That would push him into unit building frenzy?

I would be very surprised if Gandhi did not go for liberalism.

From your chart, he has a 15% probability to train a unit. I guess there are situational modifiers to this but it seems risky to gamble on a move that _may possibly_ increase this, but at the same time is _almost certain_, from my experience, to tie up lots of units in his cities.

We only need him to get one loose unit on our side of the canal, and the worker trail should do the trick.

The AI will keep his units in his city if you have a stack two tiles away. Three tiles away, and he will free them up. At least to my experience.

The AI will keep his units in his city if you have a stack two tiles away. Three tiles away, and he will free them up. At least to my experience.

I am sure Gandhi checks the power graph now and then, so he already knows we have lots of units. I don't see how showing some of them in India accomplish anything more than potentially locking his units into his cities.

More fond of the idea of suiciding units amphibiously. That way we can strike quickly and move away the boats in the same turn, so we don't stay within the magical two tiles (if that applies to galleons as well).

What I'm seeing is this:

Gandhi's "massive" troop build-up in Delhi has not grown much over the ages
The Delhi troops have not been loaded into his galleys
Delhi needs to build an observatory, a uni and then Oxford
G has six cities w/libraries but no observatories and no unis
Kolpahur has nothing, not a granary, a lh, or a barracks (luckily, it's soon to possess our plains/hill mine)

So the questions are:

Do we want to divert G from building research facilities?
Can we?
How?

This leads me to the conclusion that we want to focus on

getting G his 22% space-race discount
preparing the N cities as best we can for him (ie., 3 Gorges Dam, Space Elevator, lots of buildings that might not die)
Later on, when he has nothing to build, he might stock up on units, hopefully have a shrine and will see our empty-city invitations.

EDIT: We can keep an eye on Delhi and when it has its observatory and uni, there might be a window where he'll build troops before he can build Oxford.

EDIT2: The above doesn't even consider that G has cathedrals and other cultural buildings he might prefer to build in his cities.

Meanwhile, CRC managed to give G another city...

Presumably G must have some intentions of going on the offensive if he is building trebs (altho' I realise the AI doesn't always 'think' these things through rationally). I think all we can do is suicide a few units and leave our cities empty, while building up non-culture infrastructure and wonders.

As regard suiciding units, it would be best not to waste any beserkers as they are heavily promoted and their amphib promotions will remain usefeul after promotion to rifles, infantry etc.

@LC: it would be good to whip out a few commerce buildings in Bibracte in your turnset. It has rapid regrowth potential and the extra commerce is vital for our economy.

Finished 6 turns. Captured Cordoba and Barcelona, Toledo and Salamanca next. Successful spread of Hinduism in MW and Karak. Poprushed Market in Bibrachte to make the poeple and BP happy. :)

Hannibal has just DOWed Washington and has 3 double-promoted Knights prepared to capture Atlanta (mace, 2 LBs). Hannibal also has an 11-unit SOD at Washington's borders. Looks grim.

Hannibal would DOP if we had something to offer, which we don't because he and Washington both now have Education. We will hopefully have Econ in about 4-5 turns, depending on our finances.

G has captured 3 wkrs (not killed), 1 caravel, and 1 warrior. He sent a galleon from Bangalore past GC... I think he might be planning a mass invasion, but I'm reluctant to have the caravel close enough to Delhi to know.

G popped another GS...

I'll finish up tonight. Couldn't squeeze it all in this morning.

Finished 6 turns. Captured Cordoba and Barcelona, Toledo and Salamanca next. Successful spread of Hinduism in MW and Karak. Poprushed Market in Bibrachte to make the poeple and BP happy. :)

Hannibal has just DOWed Washington and has 3 double-promoted Knights prepared to capture Atlanta (mace, 2 LBs). Hannibal also has an 11-unit SOD at Washington's borders. Looks grim.

Hannibal would DOP if we had something to offer, which we don't because he and Washington both now have Education. We will hopefully have Econ in about 4-5 turns, depending on our finances.

G has captured 3 wkrs (not killed), 1 caravel, and 1 warrior. He sent a galleon from Bangalore past GC... I think he might be planning a mass invasion, but I'm reluctant to have the caravel close enough to Delhi to know.

G popped another GS...

I'll finish up tonight. Couldn't squeeze it all in this morning.

Well played so far. Interesting development. I hope you will go down in history as the player that lost the first city to Gandhi. :)

Unless we intervene somehow Washington will probably soon become a vassal to Hannibal. This means that Hannibal is the main contender for Gandhi (well, we knew that all along, didn't we). Not sure what else it means, except maybe that Washington will be less likely to trade with Gandhi.

Well played so far. Interesting development. I hope you will go down in history as the player that lost the first city to Gandhi. :)

Unless we intervene somehow Washington will probably soon become a vassal to Hannibal. This means that Hannibal is the main contender for Gandhi (well, we knew that all along, didn't we). Not sure what else it means, except maybe that Washington will be less likely to trade with Gandhi.That sounds good to me. Better than Hannibal cutting Washington to ribbons, which he oughta wanna do.

I"ve never been involved in a vassalized game. That still means Washington does his own research and everything, right? In other words, it doesn't even begin to resemble a PA, does it?

That sounds good to me. Better than Hannibal cutting Washington to ribbons, which he oughta wanna do.

I"ve never been involved in a vassalized game. That still means Washington does his own research and everything, right? In other words, it doesn't even begin to resemble a PA, does it?
He still does his research but it is a lot slower. It is certainly not and ideal situation. Should we consider helping Washington out? - either with gifting units or by DOW on Hannibal and liberating Atlanta (the latter should be relatively easy with an amphib assault as there will be no cultural defences to worry about)

EDIT: From the 'Bastard' figures you found the other day, there would be a strong possibility of Mehmed dogpiling in on Washington too....

He still does his research but it is a lot slower. It is certainly not and ideal situation. Should we consider helping Washington out? - either with gifting units or by DOW on Hannibal and liberating Atlanta (the latter should be relatively easy with an amphib assault as there will be no cultural defences to worry about)

EDIT: From the 'Bastard' figures you found the other day, there would be a strong possibility of Mehmed dogpiling in on Washington too....

Research is not slower per se, it is just that being vassalized often coincides with losing the majority of the cities. I have been outteched by my vassals more than once... :eek:

The master decides what the vassal should research, but has no control over the vassals science slider, nor can the master demand tech. The vassal can also trade with other civs. The AI generally seems to treat their vassals well, gitfting them tech so they stay competitive.

Mehmed dogpiling is not good, that makes him more friendly with Hannibal and reduces the chances that Washington survives. But Mehmed is at war with Isabella now, right? So we don't need to worry about that happening right now.

strong possibility of Mehmed dogpiling in on Washington too....Well, we need to watch in general and gift Washington a hunk of ice at least to keep him alive.
I have been outteched by my vassals more than once... :eek: Did you read that, BP? Don't tell Gnejs but :rotfl:

That would be enough to make me run and :hide:

:joke:

We shall declare on Hannibal as soon as possible / as soon as Washington requests it. That will make Washington happy with us, and Gandhi happy with Hannibal. We can then trade with Washington and gift tech to Hannibal (as if he was slower than us!!!!)

Well, we need to watch in general and gift Washington a hunk of ice at least to keep him alive.
Did you read that, BP? Don't tell Gnejs but :rotfl:

That would be enough to make me run and :hide:

:joke:

As I wrote, you can't control the science slider of the vassal. So when I have shut down my research to fund the conquest of other victims my first vassal is still teching at 100%. Not that it matters anyway, being more advanced doesn't do anything to remove the vassal status.

But it can look kind of absurd. I even read about someone who lost diplomatically to his vassal. :lol:

We shall declare on Hannibal as soon as possible / as soon as Washington requests it. That will make Washington happy with us, and Gandhi happy with Hannibal. We can then trade with Washington and gift tech to Hannibal (as if he was slower than us!!!!)

Yes, this makes sense. Except that we need to move around lots of units before doing this. Seven or eight Galleons loaded with units should be enough to counter anything Hannibal could throw at us.

I am already starting to suffer myself from the war weariness... ;)

I have played halfway through the 8th turn. Isabella is down to Murcia (unless she settled somewhere else I didn't notice...). She won't give us Divine Rule for Peace but will capitulate :lol:. That would of course throw us into war with Mehmed, so that's a boo boo.

G finished Liberalism and I was sh.tt.ng bricks that he picked Econ for his free tech, but the stupid RNG decided to give him...Divine Right of all things.

I went ahead and uploaded so you guys can take a quick look-see. I can play two or a few more turns in the morning. I think we should

DOP Isabella
Finish Econ (don't have quite the :gold: for 2 turns)
See what we can do with H (maybe buy peace for Econ?!?)
Decide where we want Oxford--I was thinking Madrid, but I think we can get a lot more coins out of Bibrachte, but I haven't counted yet.

...
She won't give us Divine Rule for Peace but will capitulate :lol:. That would of course throw us into war with Mehmed, so that's a boo boo.


We won't get into war with Mehmed if Isabella capitulates to us (he will get peace). But we don't want a vassal, we want to kill her to get rid of unhappiness in case we get into another war (which we will, both Hannibal and Brennus deserves punishment). So, please don't DoP her.

We won't get into war with Mehmed if Isabella capitulates to us (he will get peace). But we don't want a vassal, we want to kill her to get rid of unhappiness in case we get into another war (which we will, both Hannibal and Brennus deserves punishment). So, please don't DoP her.DOn't think we want to kill anyone any more. Techs become too expenisve.

Anyone know about this "yearn for our homeland"? Does it go on forever? Does it get worse, better? (I mean if we don't kill the AI off?)

Well done with the warring. I presume you have noticed Isa's galleon (which may be full of units) off the coast of Samarquand......

Couple of other points:
- Should we be trying to grow a pop in GC by working farms and coast for a few turns?
- CC would benefit from a market (for commerce and for happies)
- Observatories may be better builds than Unis in the Old World as they are non-culture producing (although I guess you are trying to get to the threshold to build Oxford someplace)
- BC is our best production city at present - with Hinduism it will do even better
- Is the engineer in Bibracte deliberate to slow growth? It may be good to whip again soon.
- Should we whip Univ Sankore - or hold our nerve for another 6 turns?

Once we get Econ (2 turns at 70 or 80% research) we may wish to revolt to Free Trade +/- Bureaucracy

Well done with the warring. I presume you have noticed Isa's galleon (which may be full of units) off the coast of Samarquand...... Yup, main reason I took out her 2nd-to-last city from sea...so we could DOP (or at least cease fire)...

Couple of other points:
- Should we be trying to grow a pop in GC by working farms and coast for a few turns? Thought about that. My main focus has been getting that harbor done.
- CC would benefit from a market (for commerce and for happies) Been using CC for Hindu Misses.
- Observatories may be better builds than Unis in the Old World as they are non-culture producing (although I guess you are trying to get to the threshold to build Oxford someplace) Exactly. Slated OS, Karak, and Besh for 3 of our 6 unis. Assumption is that G is going to be so slow taking our GK cities that we need to "be real" and do what we need for our research.
- BC is our best production city at present - with Hinduism it will do even better True. Actually, I was in teh process of sending a Jewish Miss up there so we could crank out more of them, but then Hinduism will be even harder to spread to there, since it already has its first religion.
- Is the engineer in Bibracte deliberate to slow growth? It may be good to whip again soon. Basically. I was planning to whip just before we switched the research slider back down. Saves some population and there hasn't been a need yet, since the bank only multiplies :commerce:.
- Should we whip Univ Sankore - or hold our nerve for another 6 turns? Interesting question.

Once we get Econ (2 turns at 70 or 80% research) we may wish to revolt to Free Trade +/- Bureaucracy
One more question I have for all of you guys. I have built the settler in Vienne. Question is, do we still want to settle at 4E? It's crowded from the N, but Mehmed is sprinkling our countryside with settlers/settlements, plus I assume Isabella will build a settler too.

We shall declare on Hannibal as soon as possible / as soon as Washington requests it. That will make Washington happy with us, and Gandhi happy with Hannibal. We can then trade with Washington and gift tech to Hannibal (as if he was slower than us!!!!)The less war on the planet, the faster the tech rate. We're getting close to Liberalism/Free Religion. If Hannibal goes FR, he'll be fine with G. Relations tend to get lovie-dovie after FR, right?
We won't get into war with Mehmed if Isabella capitulates to us (he will get peace). Okay, thanks. But we don't want a vassal, we want to kill her to get rid of unhappiness in case we get into another war (which we will, both Hannibal and Brennus deserves punishment). So, please don't DoP her.Should I "cease fire" her?

As I mentioned a bit earlier, the more AIs we kill off the less we can discount techs for G by researching them first. It's a significant difference and tech-wise, I'm pretty sure we're already behind the teams that aren't warring so much. Our main advantage over them will be G's ability to build the space parts faster, but that's not an advantage if he starts too late. (And also that G's reseach rate will be faster in the end-game, presumably.)

So I think it boils down to this:

Will the "long-for-mother's-breast" unhappiness prevent us from teching fast enough to get G cheaper techs?

If not, then we definitely want to suffer that unhappiness to get the extra 11% tech-discount for G.

Okay, just so you guys know, I haven't started playing my last turns yet because there are unresolved Turn Zero issues:
we don't seem to have agreement on whether to DoP or cease fire with Isabella.
Two other relevant issues for Turn 0 are

whether to go for Oxford in Bibrachte or Madrid (Madrid is ready to start its next build: university for Oxford or granary for growth...) and
where to settle the settler, if anywhere.
I think you guys can give me some feedback on this without seeing the save, right? Let me know, please.

Okay, just so you guys know, I haven't started playing my last turns yet because there are unresolved Turn Zero issues:
we don't seem to have agreement on whether to DoP or cease fire with Isabella.
Two other relevant issues for Turn 0 are

whether to go for Oxford in Bibrachte or Madrid (Madrid is ready to start its next build: university for Oxford or granary for growth...) and
where to settle the settler, if anywhere.

Madrid has much greater potential :commerce: production than Bibracte so should get Oxford. Bear in mind that the extra trade route commerce from Bibracte's Temple of Artemis will disappear after Chemistry.
4E seems a good spot for the settler - but only if we go on the eliminate Brennus' capital.

Have you checked whether or not Isa will give us DR for peace? (Unfortunately if she accepts then this is an irreversible move so I can't check). If so, a 10 turn peace treaty is probably a good move. Alternatively we can just carry on with the war and be ready to rush a defender in Samarquand if necessary - take out Isa's galleon with one of ours.

Madrid has much greater potential :commerce: production than Bibracte so should get Oxford. My calcs now back this up.

4E seems a good spot for the settler - but only if we go on the eliminate Brennus' capital. That's the catch, DOWing Brennus for his Silver town means another 10 turns of WW if we don't wipe him off the planet (which I don't think we want to do). But if we don't do something soneome else will.

Have you checked whether or not Isa will give us DR for peace? Tried yesterday before saving. No go. No DR.

Alternatively we can just carry on with the war and be ready to rush a defender in Samarquand if necessary - take out Isa's galleon with one of ours.We have WW problems I was hoping to exterminate with a cease fire at least. Isa's galleon is an annoying nuisance in comparison.

Hello, Erkon? What sayeth thou?

Hey Gnejs! Is Erkon working incognito (=drunk) again today? :cool:

Okay, just so you guys know, I haven't started playing my last turns yet because there are unresolved Turn Zero issues:
we don't seem to have agreement on whether to DoP or cease fire with Isabella.
Two other relevant issues for Turn 0 are

whether to go for Oxford in Bibrachte or Madrid (Madrid is ready to start its next build: university for Oxford or granary for growth...) and
where to settle the settler, if anywhere.
I think you guys can give me some feedback on this without seeing the save, right? Let me know, please.

Haven't looked at the save and won't be able to until earliest tonight (in about 8 hours)...



I think we wan't to keep Isabella around to have more options for the foreign politics. Homeland sickness will eventually diminish once our culture starts to dominate. We could put up some cultural buildings to quicken this.

The place for Oxford doesn't matter much to me, I seldom build it anyway. :D

If there is space in our intended position, I say settle there. Again, we could shift focus to culture to grab the tiles around it.



I trust you to make with the right decisions, LC. ;)