I see that our christianization programme is at full stop. We are building a christian monastary(!!??) instead of a christian missionary in
Santiago. Our two old world christian cities are building military(??).



We are building a Christian monastry so we can continue to build missionarys after we have switched to free religion.

I'm still against further war in the new world, can someone explain to me how more war will help Gandhi reach a space victory earlier? Besides, we are already having trouble making Gandhi take our cities with our current power. Let's divert all our ressources in the old world to christianize first the old world and then the new world.


Attacking Mehemed will reduce Gandis trade routes and limit his tech trading possibilities (this could be avoided if we left him as a free state instead of vassalizing him). What attacking Mehemed would do is to boost our power/economy, which would make it easier for us to help Gandi. This may outway the disadvantage of denying Gandi his trade routes.

[QUOTE][A GG will come soon, I will hold until we discuss the best use
/QUOTE]

I would use the GG as a military instructor in our heroic epic city.

We are building a Christian monastry so we can continue to build missionaries after we have switched to free religion.



Attacking Mehemed will reduce Gandis trade routes and limit his tech trading possibilities (this could be avoided if we left him as a free state instead of vassalizing him). What attacking Mehemed would do is to boost our power/economy, which would make it easier for us to help Gandi. This may outway the disadvantage of denying Gandi his trade routes.

A GG will come soon, I will hold until we discuss the best use

I would use the GG as a military instructor in our heroic epic city.

I agree with mdy about the monastery. We need to get Christian and Hindu monasteries built before Scientific Method. [Edit: maybe a Buddhist one as well. We can build a second shrine if we get another prophet.]

Vienne will soon finish the Heroic Epic and start unit production. I again agree with mdy; the GG should be a military instructor. The two Christian cities can whip a few missionaries before Gandhi takes them to get us started spreading Christianity and Vienne can start shouldering military production.

I wouldn't defend Haibathu if Gandhi comes. We want him to take our cities as fast as possible. I suggested the scientists to get a GS if possible but helping Gandhi is our number one goal. I also wouldn't whip too heavily, let Gandhi have slightly better cities. I think Mehmed is our last military target for a long time so we won't need heavy military production in the old world for much longer. Lightbulbing Chemistry is probably a bad idea because we won't want to go to war with grenadiers. Either an academy in Karakorum or Turfan to help Gandhi or the new world for ourselves if we get the GS.

I think we should attack Mehmed. He doesn't have open borders with Gandhi so it won't cost any trade in the short term. Washington and Hannibal both have a -2 relationship with Mehmed and Mehmed's power is low. He's going whether we attack or not. I think we should be the one to push him over the edge rather than Washington. He's the sick man of the new world and he will probably benefit Gandhi more as our vassal. We can cottage his lands more efficiently and try to coordinate research.

We do need a few more workers shipped to the new world. For example, Durnovaria is building an observatory but has no cottages. It would be nice to get them built before switching to Emancipation.

I would also give Liberalism to Genghis [Edit: Brennus as well to improve our relationship so he'll trade gunpowder(second edit: we should give Education to Brennus and trade Liberalism for Gunpowder)]. Genghis should trade Liberalism to Gandhi. Washington and Hannibal aren't going to trade with Gandhi until he switches to Free Religion.

I see that our christianization programme is at full stop. We are building a christian monastary(!!??) instead of a christian missionary in
Santiago. Our two old world christian cities are building military(??).

Liib_rm,
What is your plan for the Christianization program?



I thought we are Hindu running OR. My plan is to get Hindu missionaries out before we switch civics or religions. This will aid our reconstruction effort. The Christian monestary will be completed so we can spread the "good news" after we switch from OR.

For the first time in a long time I've had the time to take a good look at the game. I still think an attack on Mehmet is uncalled for but I will of course follow the team decision.
If we are planning on revolting away from Organized Religion(Are we? According to Liib's plan we are not planning on changing civics and I agree on that) I can see the point in having a monastery, but I would prefer building missionaries at full speed while we are still in OR. I don't think we should research Scientific Method either as that would:
-Obsolete the Great Library
-Deny us the option of building monasteries later.

Why would we research Scientific Method?

If we build christian missionaries in the two mongol cities and spread it to the old world, using newly christened cities to increase the pace, we get 3 benefits:
-Gandhi will see we don't have any troops as defense, increasing the chances of him attacking us.
-We will help him expand his borders once he captures our cities(This will be important in a city like Uppsala which will be completely trashed because of lack of food when captured).
-We will immediately raise Gandhi's income through the Church of Naivity.
All the three above are directly in line with our cardinal objective: To help Gandhi. In my view that means there is no better way to use our ressources.

Again, to help Gandhi, I think we should rebuild our fishing nets and protect them with a galleon each.

Another note; we captured Samarqand centuries ago(I was against this), and it is costing us a bunch, should we not try and get the best of it? Why not build culture for 4 turns expanding the borders there? Then we can at least work the two spice and the gold, making it a half decent city.

I'm against transferring workers to the New World(we will capture 8 workers in Barcelona), we still have plenty of work to do in the old. I think we should use them to build improvements (windmills and irrigation at Uppsala and general improvements at Samarqand comes to mind). In my opinion, they should then be used to lure Gandhi towards our cities.

TDK

I still think an attack on Mehmet is uncalled for but I will of course follow the team decision.

I agree with RTB, if we don't take him out then someone else will.

If we are planning on revolting away from Organized Religion(Are we? According to Liib's plan we are not planning on changing civics and I agree on that) I can see the point in having a monastery, but I would prefer building missionaries at full speed while we are still in OR.

In my turn set, I don't see the need to change civics. But after we research Democracy, I can envision a switch to Emancipation, Free Religion, and better economics/government combo.

If we build christian missionaries in the two mongol cities and spread it to the old world, using newly christened cities to increase the pace, we get 3 benefits:
-Gandhi will see we don't have any troops as defense, increasing the chances of him attacking us.
-We will help him expand his borders once he captures our cities(This will be important in a city like Uppsala which will be completely trashed because of lack of food when captured).
-We will immediately raise Gandhi's income through the Church of Naivity.

This makes alot of sense for the old world. But Hindu should take priority in the new world due to the OR benefits and our need for infrastructure.


I plan to play tonight.

I thought we are Hindu running OR. My plan is to get Hindu missionaries out before we switch civics or religions. This will aid our reconstruction effort. The Christian monestary will be completed so we can spread the "good news" after we switch from OR.

llib_rm please remember that OR allows builds of ANY missionaries without a monastery, not just of our state religion (hindu). That means we can build Christian missionaries in the Mongol cities now. I also agree with whipping them at least until we have a few christian cities in the new world.

I agree with building monasteries but only in the new world...

I agree with attacking the ottomans.

Good luck!

OK, I played two turns and I will finish up later. It looked like a good place to break and gather comments.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/One_Short_Straw_SG004_AD1364_01.CivWarlordsSave

In short:
Barcelona & Seville are ours
Izzy is our vassal with Divine Right as a bonus
The Heroic Epic is completed in Vienne
A GG has been created in Vienne
The Christian indocrination is in full swing in the old lands

The ugly details are below, my notes will follow at a later time.


Turn 282, 1352 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Cordoba!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 5%!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Seville to 0%!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Maceman (3.78)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 282, 1352 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (20/100HP)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 282, 1352 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Maceman!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 32%!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 26%!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 20%!
Turn 282, 1352 AD: Murcia (Isabella) has been captured by the Celtic Empire!!!

Turn 283, 1358 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult (5.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (16.50)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Catapult!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (9.34)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 12 (77/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 12 (65/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 12 (53/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (4.13)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 55.2%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 16 (37/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Trebuchet!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (5.83)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 87.4%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (50/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (28/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (6/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (5.10)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 19 (18/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Isabella's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Catapult!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman (7.20) vs Isabella's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 91.9%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Catapult is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman has defeated Isabella's Catapult!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Longbowman has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: You have captured Seville!!!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon (4.00) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 68.7%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Galleon has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 14%!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 6%!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Barcelona to 0%!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: You have trained Christian Missionary in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet (4.00) vs One Short Straw's Longbowman (4.79)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Combat Odds: 32.7%
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 17 (67/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 17 (50/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 17 (33/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: Isabella's Trebuchet is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 283, 1358 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman has defeated Isabella's Trebuchet!
Turn 283, 1358 AD: While defending, your Longbowman has killed a Spanish Trebuchet!

Turn 284, 1364 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Otrar!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (4.40) vs Isabella's Longbowman (10.50)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Trebuchet!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Trebuchet has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult (5.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (14.35)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (76/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (65/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (43/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Catapult!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (3.48) vs Isabella's Longbowman (7.13)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (59/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (31/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (3/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Gaius Marius (Great General) has been born in Vienne (One Short Straw)!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Trebuchet has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (9.34)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 39.7%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Berserker!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Berserker has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Isabella's Crossbowman (9.28)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 58.9%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (36/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (18/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Crossbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Maceman (5.59)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 91.3%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Maceman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (6.45)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 84.2%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (25/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (7/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Sargon has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman (6.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (1.47)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Your Longbowman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured Barcelona!!!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have made peace with Isabella!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Brennus has made peace with Isabella!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella has declared war on Gandhi!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella has capitulated and is now a vassal state of One Short Straw
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have discovered Divine Right!

Good news on taking those cities! We should be in a good position to take on Mehemed once reinforcements arrive. If we attack him it might be worth demanding all his gold just before.


Izzy is currently researching nationalism. This seems like a waste as we already have it. Maybe it would be better to get her to research gunpowder so we will be able to trade for it.

Haithabu/Upsulla probably won`t grow before Gandi takes them so it may be more useful to stop growing these cities and maximise production.

I agree that we should gift Gengis liberalism and use the remaining workers in the old world to worker bait Gandi.

Once the forbidden palace is built in Tolosa we could start working the towns there instead of mines. This alone will allow us to raise the slider by 10% !

Izzy is currently researching nationalism. This seems like a waste as we already have it. Maybe it would be better to get her to research gunpowder so we will be able to trade for it.



OK, How does one change a vassal's research?

OK, How does one change a vassal's research?

Open the diplomatic screen. Click on "let`s discuss something else", then "we would like you to research".

OK, the save is in...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/One_Short_Straw_SG004_AD1412_01.CivWarlordsSave

In short, we are at war with Mehmed, Constitution is one turn away, a GP is one turn away in Haithabu, & Ghandi is eyeing Upsalla

Here are my notes:

0) 1352AD: Turfan queue beserker for Cristian Missionary (CM), karakorum->CM, Samaqand->culture, Veralion->Hindu Missionary (HM), Madrid->culture

1) 1358AD: Capture Seville, bombard Barcelona, whip CM in Karakorum, whip observatory in Bibracte

2) 1364AD: Capture Barcelona, Izzy capitulates with Divine Right as bonus, Great General in Vienne, Vienne Heroic Epic->LB, General turns military instructor in Vienne, Bibaracte observatory-> Hindu monestary

3) 1370AD: Upsalla pike->research, Birka converts to christianity, Birka queues treb starts CM, gift divine right to Brennus

IBT Otrar is captured by Ghandi :)

4) 1376AD: troop moves Zzzz

5) 1382AD: Madrid culture->lib, Vienne LB->knight

6) 1388AD: Whip CM in Karakorom, Santiago christian monestary->HM, Nidaros treb->galleon

7) 1394AD: Tolosa forbidden palace->observatory, Karakorum CM->market, Tabriz converts to christianity, santiago->CM, Bibracte Hindu monestary->bank

Brennus asks for PP->OK

8) 1400AD: Declare on Mehmed->land troops, Haithabu treb->research, Seville culture->barracks

IBT Mehmed attacks Cordoba

9) 1406AD: Whip LB in Cordona, queue beserker in gergovia, whip lib in Barcelona, bombard Mehmed, Birka CM->treb

10) 1412AD: bombard Mehmed, Christianity failed in Nidaros, Hindu Failed in Madrid, Birka queue treb load CM, Trade nationalism for gunpower with Brennus

...and here is the gory details...

Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (4.40) vs Isabella's Longbowman (10.50)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Trebuchet!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult (5.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (14.35)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (76/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (65/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 11 (43/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Catapult is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Catapult!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (3.48) vs Isabella's Longbowman (7.13)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (59/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (31/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 28 (3/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Gaius Marius (Great General) has been born in Vienne (One Short Straw)!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (9.34)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 39.7%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Berserker!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Isabella's Crossbowman (9.28)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 58.9%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (36/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (18/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Crossbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Isabella's Maceman (5.59)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 91.3%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Maceman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Isabella's Maceman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) (8.80) vs Isabella's Longbowman (6.45)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 84.2%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (25/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (7/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman (6.00) vs Isabella's Longbowman (1.47)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella's Longbowman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 284, 1364 AD: One Short Straw's Longbowman has defeated Isabella's Longbowman!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have captured Barcelona!!!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have made peace with Isabella!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Brennus has made peace with Isabella!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella has declared war on Gandhi!
Turn 284, 1364 AD: Isabella has capitulated and is now a vassal state of One Short Straw
Turn 284, 1364 AD: You have discovered Divine Right!

Turn 285, 1370 AD: Christianity has spread in Birka.
Turn 285, 1370 AD: Otrar (One Short Straw) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!

Turn 286, 1376 AD: The borders of Vienne have expanded!
Turn 286, 1376 AD: The borders of Madrid have expanded!

Turn 287, 1382 AD: The borders of Toledo have expanded!
Turn 287, 1382 AD: Marie Curie (Great Scientist) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 288, 1388 AD: The borders of Samarqand have expanded!
Turn 288, 1388 AD: You have trained Christian Missionary in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 288, 1388 AD: You have constructed Forbidden Palace in Tolosa. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 288, 1388 AD: Amir Khusro (Great Artist) has been born in Washington (Washington)!

Turn 289, 1394 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Christianity has spread in Tabriz.
Turn 289, 1394 AD: The borders of Seville have expanded!

Turn 290, 1400 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 36 ? for Tolosa.
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Mehmed II for Open Borders
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Deal Canceled: Corn to Mehmed II for Cow
Turn 290, 1400 AD: You have declared war on Mehmed II!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Brennus has declared war on Mehmed II!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Isabella has declared war on Mehmed II!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: You have trained Christian Missionary in Birka. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 290, 1400 AD: A Mine has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Catapult!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult (5.00) vs One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Combat Odds: 3.2%
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Mehmed II's Catapult!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: While defending, your Berserker has killed a Ottoman Catapult!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer (6.60) vs One Short Straw's Crossbowman (9.36)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Combat Odds: 11.8%
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (City Attack: +10%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: A Horse Archer has withdrawn from combat with your Crossbowman!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Mehmed II has completed The Spiral Minaret!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Moses (Great Prophet) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!

Turn 291, 1406 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Samarqand!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Uppsala!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 83%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 66%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 49%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 37%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Ankara to 53%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Ankara to 37%!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: You have plundered 3? from the Mine!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult (5.00) vs One Short Straw's Berserker (9.21)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 2.7%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 14 (82/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Mehmed II's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 14 (68/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: A Catapult has withdrawn from combat with your Berserker!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: While defending, your Worker was destroyed by a Ottoman Horse Archer!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: A Cottage has been destroyed by a marauding Ottoman Archer!

Turn 292, 1412 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Cordoba!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman (5.01) vs Mehmed II's Horse Archer (0.52)
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 292, 1412 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 292, 1412 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Mehmed II's Horse Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 292, 1412 AD: One Short Straw's Crossbowman has defeated Mehmed II's Horse Archer!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Crossbowman has destroyed a Horse Archer!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Ankara to 31%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Ankara to 15%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Ankara to 4%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: You have plundered 20? from the Town!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Christian Missionary has failed to spread ? in Nidaros!!!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 20%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 3%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Istanbul to 0%!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: Your Hindu Missionary has failed to spread ? in Madrid!!!
Turn 292, 1412 AD: You have discovered Gunpowder!

A few micromangement points:

Why are we building a galleon in Nidaros? Surely we have enough.

Why are we building a market in Karakorum. Gandi will bprobably capture it before we can finish it. Even if we do it is likely to be destroyed.

We are building a bank in Bibracete. A university would be more useful, and it would help enable Oxford.

Similarly in Tolosa a bank/uni would be more useful than an observatory-Though it would probably be worth whipping a granary there first.

What happened to the Spanish workers in Barcelona? If they were disbanded we will need to ship more over.

We can sell liberalism to Gengis.

There appears to be a pike near Samsun in a position to attack an undefended city soon/pillage improvements. We will need to whip the beserker to deal with it. There is also a city in the Old world which needs watching.

As we now have gunpowder we may as well tell Izzy to research something else.

Mehemed now has gunpowder so we will soon face Jannisaries, so we should probably be focusing on building new trebs than beserkers.

Good job llib_rm - looks like Gandhi is finally making some significant moves into the old world.

I would add one thing to mdy's list - I think Durnovaria should probably be producing an observatory or university instead of the barracks. We want to use that city for a GP farm for scientists I think & we have other cities that can build military.

Who is up next?

I would add one thing to mdy's list - I think Durnovaria should probably be producing an observatory or university instead of the barracks. We want to use that city for a GP farm for scientists I think & we have other cities that can build military.

I agree that a university would be more useful here, it would also make sense to make similar changes in Seville and Barcelona.

Durnovia does not look like a good GP farm however. It has no high food tiles to work, and without Oxford the max no of scientists we could hire would be 3, in combination with the National Epic this would give GS `s at: 53/60/68/75/83 turns. With Oxford this would improve to: 27/30/34/38/42 turns. But building Oxford here seems like a waste as we would be working farms instead of high commerce tiles.

An altenative would be to cottege over the farms in Durnovia and build a National Epic/Oxford combination in Madrid (Istanbul could be an alternative). If we whip libaries/unis across the empire we could get this set up in 50-60 turns. There would be some GE pollution from the hanging gardens/engineer-but this is not nessesarily a bad thing, it would speed up our GP production, and a GE could be used for the UN. Madird also has an academy, so we would be better off making this our science centre.

I have it, will probably be posting plan this evening.

TDK

Good job, hopefully Gandhi will start quickly sweeping through our cities.

I don't think Janissaries will be too much of a problem. Ankara is the only Ottoman city with good production. He can't upgrade and we should take Ankara and Istanbul before he builds any units. We should vassalize and demand his gold (edit: resource for happiness not cash) after we take Bursa and Edirne. We probably have most of the army we need to take Mehmed.

mdy has a solid list of suggestions so I won't add much more. There are a few cottageable cities building military in the new world. Vienne should build most garrison units so other cities can focus on economic development. We need a few workers to build cottages as well.

We still haven't given Liberalism to Genghis! We are trying to help Gandhi not extract maximum value for our techs. We should give anything we have that Gandhi doesn't to Genghis. (I would give him Constitution asap as well.) We want Gandhi to have as many trading opportunities as possible and we want him to switch to Free Religion, Free Speech and Emancipation quickly. (He's got a lot of cottages to grow ;) ) It would also be nice to give Gandhi a shot at the Statue of Liberty.

We should give our monopoly techs to our vassals as well. We can get the occasional trade if possible from them but they can reduce the beaker cost to the other civs just by knowing techs. We needed a tech advantage to get a hold on the new continent but its now counterproductive. We want to speed everyone's tech rate rather than getting ahead of the AIs.

We will get a great person next turn. A great artist would probably lightbulb MilTrad (I don't know where we would want the culture from a settled artist or bomb). Should we settle a scientist in Madrid? I don't see a lot of use from lightbulbing Chemistry (we can probably trade for it when Brennus has it) and there are already academies in Madrid and Karakorum.

I do not have the game at present, so my apologies if names are omitted.

Why are we building a galleon in Nidaros? Surely we have enough.

I used galleons from the chain for troop movement on Mehmed. The galleon in Nidaros was intended to support the chain. The last set of troops from the old world was in a chain and got redirected towards mehemeds city in the south of the old world. (That city was created after I declared.)

Why are we building a market in Karakorum. Gandi will bprobably capture it before we can finish it. Even if we do it is likely to be destroyed.

Karakorum is a money machine. I thought we could whip the market before Ghandi acquires it. I was not certain it would get destroyed, if the city was taken unopposed. Is there an article on this?

We are building a bank in Bibracete. A university would be more useful, and it would help enable Oxford.

Similarly in Tolosa a bank/uni would be more useful than an observatory-Though it would probably be worth whipping a granary there first.

When given the option I usually take Observatories over Universities due to the cost. Unless, of course, I intend to go for Oxford. Since there was no discussion/push to get Oxford and observatories were already in the build queue, I continued the trend.

What is wrong with a bank in Bibracete?


What happened to the Spanish workers in Barcelona? If they were disbanded we will need to ship more over.

The Spanish workers were sent north to work the land tiles. I focussed on resoure & luxury items first.

We can sell liberalism to Gengis.

I dropped the ball on funneling technology through Gengis. RTB is correct.

There appears to be a pike near Samsun in a position to attack an undefended city soon/pillage improvements. We will need to whip the beserker to deal with it. There is also a city in the Old world which needs watching.

I queued a beserker for whipping. It should have one turn of hammers on it. A galleon headed towards the city in the old world. It will not be enough to capture, but shore up support until a berserker or three arrives.

The Plan:

Gift Lib to Genghis.
We can also sell lib to Hannibal and Washington for a total of 340 gold, I think I will do that if there are no objections. We would force Genghis to sell lib to Gandhi in this way(everyone else has it), and we can hope that Washington and/or Hannibal will revolt to free religion, letting Gandhi into the club .

Research Democracy. I will not revolt to Representation before we hit Democracy.

Finish Mehmet.

Gift all techs to our vassals. Gift our surplus ressources to our vassals.

I will rebuild our workboats in the old world for Gandhi.

I have made the following (reversible) changes: Tolosa to Granary, Durnovia to University, Verlamion to Trading Post, Bibracte to University(for the extra culture). Removed 2 scientists from Haithabu and started a Beserker. Samarqand to Longbow(queued).

I'm not convinced we should create another GP factory, is it really worth it? Next GP would cost 1050 GP points.

TDK

I'm not convinced we should create another GP factory, is it really worth it? Next GP would cost 1050 GP points.

Maybe it is not worth it. If we don't create one we should of course cottage everything. Don't we have the nat Epic somewhere in the old world? It will get destroyed when Gandhi takes it and we cannot build another one (is this true?). I guess this makes another GP farm less valuable.

TDK, Good plan I think.

I'm not convinced we should create another GP factory, is it really worth it? Next GP would cost 1050 GP points.


We will lose the National Epic and the value of GP is starting to diminish. I still think you are right about Oxford in Madrid. We will get a GP or two from a fully developed science city but its not worth focusing on GP. If we run a few merchants in the holy city (after building Wall Street) we might get a merchant or priest + scientist or engineer in Madrid to start a golden age.

Gandhi, Hannibal, and Washington have Uni. Sufferage, Free Trade, and Free Speech as favorite civics respectively. We should adopt these and bribe Hannibal and Washington to adopt as well. These plus Free Religion should help open the tech trading doors. (We need Hanni and Wash to keep open borders for our missionaries, as well.) There are 35 technologies left after Constitution and both Hannibal and Washington have WFYABTA limits of 10. They have seen Gandhi trade for maybe 2 or 3 techs and about 15 techs won't be traded because they are space race related. We should push to get 7 or 8 more trades available for Gandhi before Rocketry.

Gandhi, Hannibal, and Washington have Uni. Sufferage, Free Trade, and Free Speech as favorite civics respectively. We should adopt these and bribe Hannibal and Washington to adopt as well. These plus Free Religion should help open the tech trading doors. (We need Hanni and Wash to keep open borders for our missionaries, as well.) There are 35 technologies left after Constitution and both Hannibal and Washington have WFYABTA limits of 10. They have seen Gandhi trade for maybe 2 or 3 techs and about 15 techs won't be traded because they are space race related. We should push to get 7 or 8 more trades available for Gandhi before Rocketry.

Great summary of what we need to do, I agree completely. I will start playing now.

TDK

T0: Decide to take constitution in 1 turn so we cannot pop Military tradition with an Artist. I feel an artist is better used for Democracy as we already have the armies needed to defeat Mehmet.

Whip Beserker in Gergovia. Gift all techs to our vassals. Gift our surplus ressources to our vassals.


Change Tolosa to Granary, Durnovia to University, Verlamion to Trading Post, Bibracte to University(for the extra culture). Removed 2 scientists from Haithabu and started a Beserker. Samarqand from culture to Longbow(queued).

IBT: Gandhi captures Uppsala.

T1: An artist is born, will send it to Nidaros and lightbulp Democracy. We take Ankara(lost one beserker).

T2: We get 2000 beakers from our Artist for Democracy(10turns). Whip workboat in Mauryuan. Whip Verlamion for Trading post, whip Tolosa for Granary.

T3: We raze Ottoman city south of Gergovia.

T4: We capture Istanbul(lost 2 trebs, 1 beserker).

IBT: Gandhi buys Liberalism from Genghis. Gandhi takes Birka.

T8: Burn Bursa, light losses.

T9: Take Erdine by overbearing attack, lose a couple of beserkers and a treb. We capitulate Mehmet, no bonus tech. We can now take Democracy in 1 turn.

T10: Democracy is in, we revolt to Universal Suffrage, Free Religion and Emancipation(3 turns).

Even with Free Religion, the AI’s are still reluctant to trade us their techs, but we should watch out for an opportunity. I have delayed the decision on how to handle getting Gandhi Democracy and we should discuss this.

TDK

Even with Free Religion, the AI’s are still reluctant to trade us their techs, but we should watch out for an opportunity. I have delayed the decision on how to handle getting Gandhi Democracy and we should discuss this.


I think all we can do is to sell nationalism/constitution to whoever does not have it so Gandi can research it quicker and wait for Gandi to dicover something else.

I think we should research the UN line next, with a possible detour to communism. This line is not prioritised by the AI so it should maximise tech trading. It would also allow us to pass open borders/single currency earlier.

I agree that another GP farm is not to valuable at this point, but it would still be worthwhile building Oxford in a high commerce city, and maybe Wall Street in the shrine city.

One MM point: Why are we building a harbor in our heroic epic city? Suely it would be more useful to rebuild our army there?

One MM point: Why are we building a harbor in our heroic epic city? Suely it would be more useful to rebuild our army there?
We are building a Harbour because we don't need arms beyond what we already have, in my opinion.

I have started enough Universities for us to start constructing Oxford soon and I've developed Madrid's improvements in preparation. There are other candidate cities though.

I also agree we should construct Wall Street in the holy city at some point, but that will be a while.

I like going for the UN tech track.

TDK

I seem to be up next, so I have the save. I'll take a detailed look and post my thoughts by tomorrow night & try to play Sunday if there is a consensus.

Generally I like the UN tech track & will try to emphasize science in the new world cities.

I've taken a look at the save and this looks like a pretty heavy infrastructure building turn-set. Of course I will give any city to Gandhi that he wants. I like Oxford University in Madrid - it seems like the logical choice.

I agree with TDK that we are done with military for a little while. Maybe later we will want to take out Washington, but definitely not now. I would propose a Hindu monastery in Vienne though. Followed by a Christian monastery before we hit Scientific Method. That way when we are not building military there we can be building missionaries to increase ours and Gandhi's income. Right now we have one Hindu monastery (bibracate) and one Christian (santiago).

Research-wise, I will beeline to radio / mass media. I feel like we should be very liberal with our techs to increase the overall tech pace of the game. I am in favor of selling / trading / giving cheaply techs like Nat. & const. & sci method that will help move the overall tech pace along.

I will focus infrastructure on finishing the universities (for oxford) & other science and gold producing buildings.

If there are no other ideas, I'll probably play Sunday night.

propose a Hindu monastery in Vienne though. Followed by a Christian monastery before we hit Scientific Method. That way when we are not building military there we can be building missionaries to increase ours and Gandhi's income. Right now we have one Hindu monastery (bibracate) and one Christian (santiago).
Does the Heroic Epic bonus apply while building missionaries?

Otherwise I agree with your plan.

TDK

Does the Heroic Epic bonus apply while building missionaries?


I don't think so. I was just thinking that Vienne is a great production city and will never be good at commerce or anything else. If we aren't building military we may as well build missionaries instead of commerce or research buildings.

Here are my notes from the turn. I'm having trouble submitting through the site. I will have to ask AlanH to submit the save again for me.

In any case here it is. Summary is Gandhi has not taken any more cities, Sci method is one turn away.

Details:
Turn 0 - 1478AD
Renegotiate trade agreements. Gift some resources to everyone for relationship boosts. Make sure Vassals have military resources.
Sell Genghis nationalism for 10 gold.
Gift Brennus, Izzy and Washington constitution. Someone should trade it to Gandhi now!
Open borders with Mehmed
Change Vienne build to hindu monastery
Change verlamion from harbor to library - sorry we didn't discuss this but I think library first here...

Turn 1 - 1484AD
Gift constitution to Genghis
Hold off on trading democracy until Gandhi has Constitution...

Turn 2 - 1490AD
Out of Anarchy, 0% research. Need about 1800gp to get sci method at 100%.
Gandhi still doesn't have constitution. He is moving on Nidaros though! Yay! I may start trading democracy around in a turn or two even if he doesn't get constitution just to move the overall tech pace faster...
Send workers to chop universities
Set governors on most cities - I'm not much of a micromanager. Next player can turn them off...

Turn 3 - 1496AD
Bibracte Bank->Grocer
Hiathabu Granary->Forge
Istanbul out of anarchy build culture to avoid starvation
Switch Edirne to culture since it will be in a similar spot soon.
Gandhi still does not have constitution. His advance on Nidaros seems to have stalled for the moment. I think time to get democracy out there for everyone - hopefully will help to move things along?
Brennus has a galleon looks like it is heading for the old world... Maybe a bad idea to share military resources with the vassals :( The only civ they can attack now is Gandhi! Maybe a reason to declare on Washington soon.

Turn 4 - 1502AD
Cordoba Theater->Library

Turn 5 - 1508AD
Washington and Hannibal will now trade Econ, but we have nothing to trade them! Will have to wait until sci method.
Brennus has finished Chem but he is not interested in trading that just yet. Start him on steel
Gandhi has now completely backed off from Nidaros!

Turn 6 - 1514AD
Hannibal completes taj mahal.
Finish hindu monastery in Vienne. Spread Christianity there and start Christian monastery (4 turns)
100% research. Sci method in 5 turns.

Turn 7 - 1520AD
Seville library -> observatory
Gandhi gets great prophet.
Renegotiate dye deal with Hannibal & get screwed (was 10gpt with one gpt free, after canceling and renegotiating all he had to give was 6gpt?!?)

Turn 8 - 1523AD
Samarquand Theater->Granary
Nidaros Harbor->observatory
Gandhi is making another move on Nidaros (war elephant on gems to the south...)

Turn 9 - 1526AD
Gandhi plunders gem mine :( Nidaros is unhappy. Will have to wait until warrior comes back (I moved him out last time Gandhi "threatened").

Turn 10 - 1529AD
Vienne Christian Monastery -> Christian Missionary
Tabriz Granary->Forge
Sci Method will be in next turn
Gandhi still doesn't have constitution



Last note: Trade agreements can be renegotiated this turn. I recommend "un-gifting" military resources to our vassals.

Mushroom, please attach the file to your turn-post if you are having difficulties using the site.

TDK

I downloaded firefox and was able to submit the save using that browser. Here is the save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/One_Short_Straw_SG004_AD1529_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Here is the detailed turn log:


Here is your Session Turn Log from 1478 AD to 1529 AD:

Turn 303, 1478 AD: Brennus adopts Representation!
Turn 303, 1478 AD: Isabella adopts Representation!

Turn 304, 1484 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 305, 1490 AD: You have constructed a University in Durnovaria. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 305, 1490 AD: The borders of Toledo have expanded!
Turn 305, 1490 AD: Mehmed II adopts Representation!
Turn 305, 1490 AD: Mehmed II adopts Pacifism!

Turn 306, 1496 AD: The borders of Ankara have expanded!
Turn 306, 1496 AD: The borders of Istanbul have expanded!

Turn 308, 1508 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Hannibal has completed The Taj Mahal!

Turn 309, 1514 AD: Christianity has spread in Vienne.
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Washington has 160 gold available for trade
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Zoroaster (Great Prophet) has been born in Bombay (Gandhi)!

Turn 310, 1520 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 36 ? for Tolosa.
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Samarqand.
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Hannibal has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Gergovia will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Verlamion has grown to size 4
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Seville will grow to size 8 on the next turn

Turn 311, 1523 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 36 ? for Durnovaria.
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Hannibal has 120 gold available for trade
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Samarqand will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Gergovia has grown to size 6
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Madrid has grown to size 9
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Seville has grown to size 8
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Barcelona will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 311, 1523 AD: A Mine has been destroyed by a marauding Indian War Elephant!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Edirne's cultural boundary is about to expand.
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Tolosa's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 312, 1526 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: The borders of Edirne have expanded!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Samarqand has grown to size 4
Turn 312, 1526 AD: The borders of Tolosa have expanded!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Santiago will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Seville celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Barcelona has grown to size 6
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Madrid's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 313, 1529 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!


Turn order (I think):
mdy
mboza
TDK
mushroomshirt -just played
RobertTheBruce -up
llib_rm - on deck

I suggest physics-communism-electricity for our research path.

The reason I put communism in there is that it enables Scotland Yard. The AI`s don`t trade space race techs , so the only way to help Gandi get them is to gift them to everyone else, but this would give them a lead in the space race. Spys will be the most effective way of slowing them down,and the earlier we can build spys the easier it will be.

The GS from physics can be saved to bulb electricity.


Both Washington/Hannibal have a higher power rating than us, and realations are not particularly good so I would recommend building up a detterence force in the heroic epic city. Missionarys can be built elsewhere. We will also need there support to win the UN secretary general vote-another reason to avoid a war.

I've got the save. I'll post a plan later today.

I'm fine with Physics-Communism-Electricity. Hopefully Gandhi will pull away at game end and we won't need to sabotage. It will probably be easier to sabotage space ship production with modern armor than spies (since we don't have to put hammers into space ship parts) but we can better coordinate trades if we know what the AIs are researching.

I'm planning to run 0% research for 4 turns to build the universities in Madrid and Barcelona so we can start Oxford in Madrid. I'll run a surplus so we have cash to rush buildings in the old world as well if Gandhi tries to take any more cities.

Vienne will start military production again after the next missionary. It looks like Washington has rifles from the power graph and Hannibal will soon. We don't want to fall so low in power that they think about declaring war.

I'll give Sci. Method to our vassals, Chemistry is still a monopoly so we'll have to wait for someone else to research it before trading with Brennus. I'll trade for Economics and cash with Washington and Hannibal.

Both Washington/Hannibal have a higher power rating than us, and realations are not particularly good so I would recommend building up a detterence force in the heroic epic city. Missionarys can be built elsewhere. We will also need there support to win the UN secretary general vote-another reason to avoid a war.

I'm OK with building military in Vienne, but there are only two other monestaries (one christian - Santiago and one hindu - Bibracte) so we should probably build missionaries there when our queues free up...

A pretty quiet turn set. I bought a few unis and a theatre and temple in Edirne. Gandhi took Tabriz and Nidaros. Haithabu has large happiness problems because it is no longer linked to any happiness resources. This also cancelled all our trade deals so we can renegotiate after Haithabu falls.

I traded Sci Method for Replaceable Parts and Economics. I postponed the revolt to Free Trade until Physics is finished to make sure we get the scientist.

Otherwise build cottages. I built a galleon in Vienne and a second is being built to cover the eastern seafood. Gandhi was poking around with a caravel.


Here is your Session Turn Log from 1529 AD to 1559 AD:

Turn 313, 1529 AD: The borders of Madrid have expanded!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Seville celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!

Turn 314, 1532 AD: You have constructed a Library in Istanbul. Work has now begun on a Theatre.
Turn 314, 1532 AD: Judaism has spread in Madrid.
Turn 314, 1532 AD: Brennus adopts Emancipation!
Turn 314, 1532 AD: Brennus adopts Free Market!
Turn 314, 1532 AD: Isabella adopts Emancipation!

Turn 316, 1538 AD: You have constructed a University in Tolosa. Work has now begun on a Observatory.

Turn 317, 1541 AD: You have discovered Scientific Method!
Turn 317, 1541 AD: Wang Xizhi (Great Artist) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 318, 1544 AD: You have discovered Replaceable Parts!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: You have discovered Economics!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: The borders of Barcelona have expanded!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: Tabriz (One Short Straw) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: Alexandre Gustave Eiffel (Great Engineer) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 319, 1547 AD: Isabella adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: Isabella adopts Free Speech!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: Isabella adopts Free Religion!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: The borders of Cordoba have expanded!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: Vienne celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: Gandhi's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 319, 1547 AD: Your land area: 407 (46.46%) is close to the Domination Limit: 543 (62.00%).

Turn 320, 1550 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Hannibal has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Nidaros celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: The borders of Edirne have expanded!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: The borders of Istanbul have expanded!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Verlamion will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Vienne celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: The borders of Vienne have expanded!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Seville celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: A Pasture has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Catapult!
Turn 320, 1550 AD: Your land area: 411 (46.92%) is close to the Domination Limit: 543 (62.00%).

Turn 321, 1553 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Nidaros!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Christianity has spread in Edirne.
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Nidaros celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Cordoba will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Verlamion has grown to size 6
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Toledo will grow to size 9 on the next turn
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Madrid will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Seville celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Nidaros (One Short Straw) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Your land area: 377 (43.04%) is close to the Domination Limit: 543 (62.00%).
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Corn, Pig to Genghis Khan
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Corn, Cow, Dye, Wine to Brennus
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Silk, Rice to Mehmed II
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Ivory, Iron, Cow, Wine to Mehmed II
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Dye to Washington for Gold Per Turn (2)
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Horse, Pig, Gold to Brennus
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Copper to Brennus for Gold Per Turn (3)
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Horse, Dye to Mehmed II
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Corn to Mehmed II for Gold Per Turn (1)
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Dye to Hannibal for Gold Per Turn (6)
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Ivory to Washington for Gold Per Turn (7)
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Copper, Horse, Rice to Isabella
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Spices to Hannibal
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Deal Canceled: Wine to Washington
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Hannibal adopts Emancipation!
Turn 321, 1553 AD: Hannibal adopts Free Market!

Turn 322, 1556 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Turfan!
Turn 322, 1556 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 322, 1556 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Gandhi has 800 gold available for trade
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Brennus has 3 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Washington has 10 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Cordoba has grown to size 6
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Samarqand will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Istanbul will grow to size 14 on the next turn
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 7 on the next turn
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 14 on the next turn
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Vienne will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Toledo has grown to size 9
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Madrid has grown to size 12
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Your land area: 376 (42.92%) is close to the Domination Limit: 543 (62.00%).

Turn 323, 1559 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Turfan!
Turn 323, 1559 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 323, 1559 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

I postponed the revolt to Free Trade until Physics is finished to make sure we get the scientist.



Why would we want to revolt to free market? The additional trade routes would all be domestic so we would only get +1 commerce in most cities. State property would save us far more money.

Several of Gengis cities (Kazan/Sanchu) are going to steal tiles which should belong to Gandis cities. Maybe it would be worthwhile for us to send the force in Edirne to take them so we can gift them to Gandi as well. Neither Hannibal or Washington look like attacking us in the near future so there would be very little risk attatched.

Our next GP will be born in Istanbul in 39 turns. At the moment we are running artists and prophets, but it may be more useful to run scientists/merchants.

Nice Job RTB! It looks like I am up. I will post a plan and play over the weekend.

Why would we want to revolt to free market? The additional trade routes would all be domestic so we would only get +1 commerce in most cities. State property would save us far more money.


Free Market is Hannibal's favorite civic. It looks like he's not going to attack us so we probably don't need to revolt.

Military:
Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Getting rifles is a priority. IMO

Civics:
I think we should make one more change for the end game. I am OK with state property.

Research:
Physics->Communism (for state prop and scotland yard)

Trades:
Hopefully trade physics for rifling

Infrastructure:
Turfan Obs->CH
Istanbul TP->CH or Forge
Durnovia Obs->bank
Tolosa Obs->Grocer
Santiago Uni->bank

Why are we building a...
forge in Cordoba?
cat in Gergovia?
galleon in Seville?

I thought the consensus was to go for the U.N. tech track first. According to Mdy, the AI puts a low priority on U.N. techs(he seems to be correct thus far...) and that will open up tech trades for us(rifles, communism seems doable). The U.N. in itself would also be extremely valuable(global free religion, no nukes, and so forth).

I don't see how Scotland Yard would be very usefull to us now. I don't think State Property is worth a revolt either, especially as we leave the old continent entirely.

There are some MM issues. Many of our cities seem to be stuck at pop 6, even thoug we have lux for pop 20:
-Verlamion/Tolosa is not working it's rice.
-Gergovia should change from a catapult to a trading post.
-The workers removing irrigation at Durnovaria(which is also stuck at 8, btw, please assign to irrigation) should stop that immediately and instead continue the irrigation 2 south-west and then north west.
-We are working an Iron tile at our money machine Tolosa, thereby missing extremely rich commerce tiles and crippling it's growth(also stuck at pop 6).
-Ankara is working a plains mine instead of growing a grassland cottage, it's growth is therefore crippled(stuck at 6).
-Should we grow Vienne a bit while we do not have an urgent need of knights? Tundra hill to coast tile or plains cottage?
-Santiago is working a mine and a marble instead of food- and commerce-rich tiles(stuck at pop 6).

I like mdy's idea of attacking the Mongols.

TDK

Some thoughts - I would turn to 0% research. We have some science buildings coming on-line soon and they will help more if we store up some gold and then run science at 100% once we get over about 1200 gold.

I like the idea of attacking the Mongols. Before we do we should trade / give Genghis sci method.

TDK - why do you object to cottaging over the farms in durnovaria? By my count we need only one farm to work all the tiles (except two coast tiles). I agree we should re-arrange the tiles being worked so we are not stagnant, but I think we should only continue to cottage over the farm and in fact, cottage over a second farm leaving Durnovia with only one.

Some thoughts - I would turn to 0% research. We have some science buildings coming on-line soon and they will help more if we store up some gold and then run science at 100% once we get over about 1200 gold. Good Idea. We should be certain of getting Physics first though.

TDK - why do you object to cottaging over the farms in durnovaria? By my count we need only one farm to work all the tiles (except two coast tiles). I agree we should re-arrange the tiles being worked so we are not stagnant, but I think we should only continue to cottage over the farm and in fact, cottage over a second farm leaving Durnovia with only one.
But if we cottage over every farm(or not work the farms, as is the case) growth is painfully slow. I don't mind removing the farms when our cities are at pop 20.
In the above example at Durnovaria I suggest keeping 2 farms because they would also bring irrigation to Gergovia(2 south-west, 2 north-west), helping that city grow while only destroying the least developed cottage.

TDK

According to Mdy, the AI puts a low priority on U.N. techs(he seems to be correct thus far...) and that will open up tech trades for us(rifles, communism seems doable). The U.N. in itself would also be extremely valuable(global free religion, no nukes, and so forth).



The AI does put a low prority on the UN techs, but it will research communism relativly quickly if it has scientific method, so I guess we can wait to trade for it. The UN will be useful, but we may need Hannibals support to win the secretary general election, this means free market may be better after all, so I would hold off on any revolt for now.

like the idea of attacking the Mongols. Before we do we should trade / give Genghis sci method.


I would not give Gengis scientific method just yet. Gandi does not have any techs to trade for it, and if he is researching it we would be denying him a trading opporunity.


I agree with TDK`s micromanagement points. I would also suggest replacing the windmills outside Madrid with mines so we finish Oxford quicker.

But if we cottage over every farm(or not work the farms, as is the case) growth is painfully slow. I don't mind removing the farms when our cities are at pop 20.
In the above example at Durnovaria I suggest keeping 2 farms because they would also bring irrigation to Gergovia(2 south-west, 2 north-west), helping that city grow while only destroying the least developed cottage.

TDK

I can't believe I never thought of this. I should use this in my single-player games!

OK, the save is in...
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/One_Short_Straw_SG004_AD1577_01.CivWarlordsSave

Things went as planned. I dropped science for three turns and bumped to 100% to get physics after a few observatories completed.

In short, we...
*) Are poised to attack Ghengis
*) Have a Scientist in Haithabu

I stopped a little early to give the team time to discuss what's next, and will hand off to the next player.

I think we should continue down the UN beeline.

We will probably need Hannibals support to win the UN vote, so maybe we should switch to free market now?


The GS will lightbulb chemistry which is not particularly useful. An academy there would not be too useful to Gandi either so maybe we should bring him to the new world and save him until he will lightbulb something useful?

I appear to be up next, so I will play this evening if there are no further ideas.

I think we should continue down the UN beeline.

The GS will lightbulb chemistry which is not particularly useful. An academy there would not be too useful to Gandi either so maybe we should bring him to the new world and save him until he will lightbulb something useful?

I like the UN tech path.

If we can trade for Chemistry, then the GS should lightbulb electricity next.

I like the UN tech path.

If we can trade for Chemistry, then the GS should lightbulb electricity next.

I like the UN tech path too. Looks like we can't trade for chemistry just yet. Maybe if we set 0 research for a few turns until we can try for electricity at 100%. If no one will trade chemistry still, we should probably just research electricity directly. There are plenty of other techs along the space race path that we will want so the scientist can help bulb something else.

Looks like we are ready to do some damage to the mongols! That sounds good to me, too.

I like the UN too, and I like using the GS on Electricity if possible. I think there are still a few cities that need micromanagement to emphasize growth.

TDK

T0:

Set research to 0%.
Revolt to free market.

IBT: Gandi sinks galleon with Caravel outside Mayryaan.

T2:

Demand and get 180 gold tribute from Gengis.
Declare War on Gengis.

T3:

Capture Sanchu kill 2 longbows, 1 catapult and pillage 140 gold for no losses.

T5:

Sell Scientific method to Brennus for 40 gold + world map.
Ask Brennus to research communism.
Fail to spread hinduism in Toledo.

IBT: Gandi takes Karakorum, killing our warrior.

T7:

Bombard Beshlavik.
Sink Gengis galleon outside Beshlavik.
We still cannot trade for chemistry, so I start researching at 100% again. GS can bulb something else.
Evacuate GS from old world.

IBT: Viing revolt in Gazintep.

T8:

Take Beshlavik. Kill 3 longbows and 1 caravel (Gandi). Pillage 196 gold. Lose 1 beserker and 1 trieme.

IBT:Gengis trieme pillage fishing boat outside Maryan.

T9:

Spread Hinduism in Madrid.

IBT: Gandi takes Haithabu

T10:

Take Kazan. Kill 2 longbows, capture 1 worker, pillage 75 gold. Lose 1 knight and 1 berserker.

Turn 329, 1577 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: One Short Straw adopts Free Market!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Isabella adopts Representation!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Isabella adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Isabella adopts Free Market!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Isabella adopts Theocracy!

Turn 330, 1580 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Li Po (Great Artist) has been born in Washington (Washington)!

Turn 331, 1583 AD: You have declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Mehmed II has declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Brennus has declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Isabella has declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: The borders of Ankara have expanded!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Mehmed II adopts Emancipation!

Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (7.26)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 73.1%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (6.06)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 86.3%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +6%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight (12.00) vs Genghis Khan's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: One Short Straw's Knight has defeated Genghis Khan's Catapult!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have captured Sanchu!!!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: The borders of Seville have expanded!

Turn 334, 1592 AD: Samarqand has grown to size 6

Turn 335, 1595 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have trained a Berserker in Turfan. Work has now begun on a Berserker.
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Barcelona has grown to size 11
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Gandhi's Knight (12.00) vs One Short Straw's Warrior (5.10)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Plot Defense: +70%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: One Short Straw's Warrior is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Gandhi's Knight is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: One Short Straw's Warrior is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: One Short Straw's Warrior is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: One Short Straw's Warrior is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Gandhi's Knight has defeated One Short Straw's Warrior!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Karakorum (One Short Straw) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!

Turn 336, 1598 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Beshbalik to 26%!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon (4.80) vs Genghis Khan's Galleon (4.80)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 336, 1598 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Genghis Khan's Galleon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Genghis Khan's Galleon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Genghis Khan's Galleon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Genghis Khan's Galleon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Genghis Khan's Galleon is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: One Short Straw's Galleon has defeated Genghis Khan's Galleon!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Washington has 10 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Bibracte celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Judaism has spread in Seville.
Turn 336, 1598 AD: A Viking revolt has taken place in Gaziantep!

Turn 337, 1601 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Beshbalik to 0%!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (5.71)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 8.5%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -100%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Trebuchet has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Trebuchet is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Trebuchet!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Trebuchet has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (6.34)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 84.5%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 23 (69/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 23 (46/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 23 (23/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (8.83)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 61.5%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (72/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (52/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (32/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Berserker!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Berserker has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (2.68)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (7/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (1.92)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: One Short Straw's Sargon (Berserker) has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Your Sargon has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: You have captured Beshbalik!!!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Washington has 240 gold available for trade
Turn 337, 1601 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Samarqand. Work has now begun on a Berserker.
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 9 on the next turn
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Bibracte celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Madrid has grown to size 15
Turn 337, 1601 AD: A Mine has been destroyed by a marauding Indian War Elephant!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Mongolian Trireme!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Archimedes (Great Engineer) has been born in Hippo (Hannibal)!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Bibracte's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 338, 1604 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Hinduism has spread in Madrid.
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 9
Turn 338, 1604 AD: The borders of Bibracte have expanded!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Haithabu (One Short Straw) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Santiago's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 339, 1607 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Mauryan!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight (12.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (11.40)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Combat Odds: 65.5%
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Knight is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Knight!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Your Knight has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (10.40) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (8.10)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Combat Odds: 71.6%
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (8.40)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Combat Odds: 59.2%
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated One Short Straw's Berserker!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Your Berserker has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker (9.60) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (1.92)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 339, 1607 AD: One Short Straw's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: Your Berserker has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 339, 1607 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 339, 1607 AD: You have captured Kazan!!!

Nice work Mdy. I will take it as we haven't heard from Mboza. I will probably play tonight or tomorrow, I'm thinking of doing the following:
-Continue researching towards the U.N.
-Move Palace to Sevilla(11turns).
-Wall Street in Tolosa when possible(we have 2 banks, currently building 4 more).
-Save scientist for something usefull(like Radio).
-Reconnect the irrigation works north of Barcelona(A corn, a rice and a plains is currently not irrigated).
-Trade Spice to Hannibal for 12 gold per turn.
-Trade excess ressources to our vassals.

TDK

Sorry guys, I am still following the progress during my office lunch breaks, but no pc let alone net access at home at the moment. Hopefully will get that fixed soon, but until then I will still need skipped.

I played my set all the way to the UN. It seems we can't build the UN because diplomatic victory is switched off. Not much else to report.

I don't think we should trade our techs to Hannibal and Washington or they will completely leave Gandhi in the dust...

TDK

Nice job TDK!

I should have run a test on the U.N. I agree with no trades with Hannibal and Washington. We are clipping along and should catch them soon anyway. Unfortunately, Gandhi seems to be researching every tech Genghis has so no trading. It looks like the only trading Gandhi will do is techs we feed to Genghis.

Rifling to increase our power to avoid an attack by Washington is a good idea. Are there any ideas for technology after this. There is Computers for labs and Communism for Scotland Yard but we are running out of techs to research without trading for Chemistry. I thought Brennus would trade when two other civs knew Chem (3/7 > 40%).

Edit: 3/8 < 40%. I forgot there is an extra rival in this game. Brennus isn't going to be that useful.

With mboza out, am I up next? If so I will check out the save tonight and post some initial thoughts. Rifling seems like a good idea then computers...

Have looked at the save. This one seems very straightforward. I will maximize commerce, build science buildings, commerce buildings, riflemen or research in most places. Tech path is rifling and then computers. I will run binary research.

I will not trade techs. I agree that Gandhi is getting left in the dust...

I don`t see any problem with trding for military tradition/corporation/chemistry/rifling with Hannibal/Washington.

Doing this will speed up our research and speed up Gandi`s research if he is researching them. Gandi could still make trades with Gengis if we gift him appropriate techs. Neither Hannibal or Washington are likly to trade with Gandi anyway so it would not cut down Gandis trading oppotunitys. As long as we build Scotland Yard early to sabotage space ship production there should be no down side if Washington/Hannibal continue to overtake Gandi.

I would suggest we research computers next (which our GS can bulb). This will open up labs to speed up our research. If we can get it to Gandi earlier than usual it would also speed up his spaceship production. After that I would go for communism if we can`t trade for it.

Neither Hannibal/Washington is planning to attack us at the moment, and the AI`s also take account of Vassals power before declaring war, so our powergraph is not as bad as it looks. This means our only threat in the immediate future is Gandi. Maybe building frigates to stop his invasion force before it land would be more cost effective than building rifles?

Well maybe this set is not as simple as I thought. Let's discuss mdy's suggestions.

Researching computers then rifling - I forgot about the scientist. I agree with mdy. I think this is a good idea since the scientist will get us part-way there to computers, then go to rifling. Not up to me but after this I think combustion, industrialization, railroad before communism. As for getting computers to Gandhi - I think the fundamental problem is that Gandhi has nothing good to trade. He needs lots of techs before he can get to computers.

Trading with Hannibal / Washington - I can get behind this if we intend to destroy them with tanks and modern armor in the future.

Scotland yard - I think we are better off using tanks and modern armor to defeat Washington / Hannibal if they start building the space ship. If we trade with them I think we need to plan on taking them out rather than using spies against them. Seems to me that it is just more deterministic.

Building Frigates - we probably should build a few, but I doubt Gandhi will have the stones to mount a cross-continent invasion. It took him forever just to take the undefended cities in the old world. More valuable I think are modern units to fight the eventual war with Washington / Hannibal if we decide to tech trade with them now.

I will wait for more discussion before I play.

I like the computer research path, and trade for rifles & frigates.

Is there any benefit to keeping Washington and Hannibal in the game if they will not trade techs with Ghandi? After the UN, we should consider a bee-line to artillery and take those two out.

Is there any benefit to keeping Washington and Hannibal in the game if they will not trade techs with Ghandi? After the UN, we should consider a bee-line to artillery and take those two out.


If Washington/Hannibal have a tech it will reduce the time needed for Gandi to research it. Attacking them will also reduce our tech rate and hence Gandis.

The fastest way to get Gandi to space would be for us to gift all the space race techs to everyone and slow down Washington/Hannibal with spys. The only advantage I can see to attacking them is if it looks like they will get to space before Gandi, and our spys can`t slow them down enough. If we build Scotland Yard early enough this should not occur, and we could always build up a reserve force just in case.

Washington/Hannibal are also trading partners for Gandhi. If he switches from Mercantilism, he will get a trade boost. Combined they have as many cities as Gandhi so its a good match for foreign routes. We want to postpone attacking them until Gandhi is almost done research. When Gandhi has the spaceship techs and its all about production, we can crush them.

Gandhi's power ranking is so high considering we don't see any big attack stacks. There are probably 20 or 30 longbows in Delhi since most units Gandhi builds will be defensive not pillaging or attack. Eventually, he will get his infrastructure built and catch the other civs. Its just painfully slow.

We should have a reserve force. In the near term it can protect Genghis from Hannibal so we can feed techs to Gandhi. Every civ other than the Mongols should know what Gandhi is researching. Oh, and give techs to Genghis don't trade. Gandhi is getting mad at Genghis for trading with us. (I think the AI doesn't count gifts and demands as trades but I may be wrong.)

OK I understand the argument for Scotland yard better now. Here is what I'm thinking now:

Techs: computers->rifling->communism
Trading: trade techs to Hannibal and Washington. I will only trade what I have to to move tech forward. Gandhi is far behind & I will wait until he has something to trade to the others (Mongols) before gifting them techs.

I will build science buildings & gold buildings in our main commerce cities. I will build a few frigates in the heroic epic city after trading for chemistry. I haven't checked on our christianization lately, but I may throw a missionary or two in and rush them with gold to help Gandhi's infrastructure a bit.

I wonder if Gandhi's power is so high in response to our (us and vassals) combined power. If this is the case, building up more military is just going to slow him down even more. Perhaps we should back off somewhat?

I will play tomorrow if everyone is OK with the plan.