Welcome to your C_IV Warlords SGOTM 4 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, fractal map, at Epic speed, against 7 rivals including India. All victory conditions are enabled except Diplomatic, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Space defeat by Gandhi.

Versions
This game will be played in Warlords Version 2.08 only.

It will be played using the current version of the HoF Mod. This is version 2.08.003 for Windows. There are insufficient Mac players to form a Mac team. so it will be played in Windows only.

If later versions of Warlords or the HoF Mod are released they cannot be used for this game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of February 23.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm4_start_small.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm4_start_large.jpg)

Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Ragnar of The Vikings
Rivals - 7 civs including Gandhi (who is locked in war with Ragnar)
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, cylindrical, medium sea level, temperate
Game Speed - Epic
Diplomatic Victory Disabled
All other settings are defaults

Notes

Please visit the C-IV Warlords SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=208462) to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

Warlords v.2.08 is supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with the same version throughout the game.

Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

Awards will be given to teams who achieve Space defeats to India in the least turns.

All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Please enjoy the game :)

Signing up. Looking forward to giving SGOTM9 a [c4w] try! :woohoo:

Edit: That's odd. I hit refresh three times before the Smurkz team thread appeared and I than immediately posted here. Yet, it shows the thread opening fourteen minutes prior to my post. :confused:

Just checking in but as some of you may know I am up and (should be at least) playing real soon now :p
In any case I *think* saves are still not available (where the hell is this server ;) ) so I should probably go to bed now.

Really looking forward for this new old-flavour SGTOM with the Smurkz team :goodjob:

Really looking forward for this new old-flavour SGTOM with the Smurkz team :goodjob:

Yeah, I'm really hoping all of our SGOTM9 teammates at least look in on us and help out. I'm really looking forward to doing this one again.

Unfortunately I'm in class right now, so I can't offer my opinions on our strategy.

@Methos: Yes, 15 minutes sounds about like the time it took me to create fifteen copies of the original master version.

@unkle: The server currently believes the time is 19:17, so it's at GMT - 5 hours. The saves will be available in under five hours from the time of this post.

@AlanH:
Glad to know the server timezone, so I can have some sleep... :lol:

Morning folks.

Hi folks, glad to see we got a Smurkz team together for this game as well, we have a title to defend here (the Civ3 SGOTM9 win)! I'll try to drop by and comment when I can, but without Warlords and with two other games in the running... :rolleyes: I'm not holding the whip for this one, that's for sure. ;)

Special welcomes to our new smurkz members eldar, DeafDolphin and semolina, glad to have you on board! :)

And good luck!

yeah, thanks for the warm welcome. i am quite looking forward to this game, and to learn a thing or 2 along the way. :D

Special welcomes to our new smurkz members eldar, DeafDolphin and semolina, glad to have you on board! :)

And good luck!

Thanks, Niklas. Hello, everyone. Blame Methos for dragging me into this, if you please. :p

Seriously, glad to be here. Let's kick ass. :D

Blame Methos for dragging me into this, if you please. :p

If I remember right, I think I tried getting you to join SGOTM3 too!

From the looks of it our best bet is to settle in place, but I'm still curious about the surrounding tiles. To the south of us looks like jungle, so moving the scout SW to the hill doesn't seem worth it. If the scout moves NW x2 it'll open a few more tiles, though not many. It appears to the west is forest so that'll block part of his view.

I can't remember off-hand what our starting techs are, so I'm unsure what we should aim for first. I'll download the save shortly and take a look.

Typically the Smurkz team has always done the initial turn order by how we signed up in the thread. In other words the current roster would be:

Roster:
Methos
unkle
Eldar
semolina
DeafDolphin
???
???

Is this okay for everyone? If not just say so, as we can always switch it around if needed. I believe the only players that have never played a succession game before are DeafDolphin and semolina. I seem to recall seeing Eldar when I played [civ3] SG's. If you have any questions I suggest you read the What is a Succession Game (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=14235), or just ask us.

BTW, I can play later this evening if everyone is okay with that, other than that I'll have to wait until Sunday as my wife and I are going to see the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit this weekend and I won't have access to CFC. If people prefer I can be moved lower in the order, I don't mind.

Does anyone have any suggestions on our strategy? Any ideas on how best to proceed? I'll check the save in a little bit.

Okay, after looking at the save ...

Settling in Place: From the CC and improved clams, pig, corn, and a lighthouse, we'd have an additional +12 :food:. Plus, the lighthouse would gain an additional +1 :food: for the lake, bringing it to a total of +13 :food: if we worked the lake too. It'll be a while before we have the :) to support it, but this does look like the best site IMO.

Research: Being financial pottery seems wise, but not if we settle in place. I say skip pottery for a little while. I'm thinking animal husbandry first as it provides two major benefits; increased food and shows us horses. Granted, being at permanent war I'm also tempted to go straight for BW to locate copper.

Queue: I'm thinking WB first for the clams. It'll provide +4 :food: +3 :commerce:, and follow it with a worker. If we do go WB first it would probably be wiser to work the plains forest first so we can get the WB out in 12 turns.

Any other ideas?

well just a thought since i won't get a chance to play for awhile

due to the fact that all the resources are north of the current position, it might be a good idea to take the northerner position, as there might be more resources to grab.

and since we are playing to lose, should we for example always trade gandhi our techs immediately? but we are always at war with him too, so can we even give him techs?

I say we move north to the other recommended blue circle - if you notice, we'll gain at least 3 more commerce from the ocean when we work them (assuming we ever work them) than if we were to settle in place, while we do not seem to lose any resources by moving. Plus it looks like we might get more hammers as well, assuming there are more hills to the north.

If I remember right, I think I tried getting you to join SGOTM3 too!

I didn't have the experience then I have now, I'd have been near useless at that point.

No, we can't give him any tech, that has to come through other means. And in this game there's no tech elevator to fix it with...

and since we are playing to lose, should we for example always trade gandhi our techs immediately? but we are always at war with him too, so can we even give him techs?

No. We would have to make peace with him to pass along the techs.

Edit: Cross-post with Niklas. :p

So than, should we move the settler straight N to the forested plains hill to see what we have up north? We don't want to move away from the coast or else we'd lose the ability to work the clams.

Yeah, we'll have to figure out who Gandhi's trading partner is so we can trade them techs. [c4w] will probably make this a lot harder than it was in [civ3]. The internet will still be a major wonder we need to let Gandhi capture though. Than we can gift techs to him through it.

So than, should we move the settler straight N to the forested plains hill to see what we have up north? We don't want to move away from the coast or else we'd lose the ability to work the clams.

Yeah. That spot 2 squares north really looks great from my point of view. If it doesn't turn out to be any good, depending on what's on the other side, we can move back. Worse case, we've only lost 2 turns.

Yeah, we'll have to figure out who Gandhi's trading partner is so we can trade them techs. [c4w] will probably make this a lot harder than it was in [civ3]. The internet will still be a major wonder we need to let Gandhi capture though. Than we can gift techs to him through it.

That'll take a bit, so I say we worry about ourselves first. I suggest going for BW as our first tech, so we can use those forests to speed things up if needed. Plus, Slavery is a useful tool.

No, we can't give him any tech, that has to come through other means. And in this game there's no tech elevator to fix it with...
So if Gandhi steals techs via espionage, that is fine (if such can be done in C4W).
No tech elevator? Ouch.

I'll be around for cheerleading and such. I won't have access to C4W until when/if my son comes home for the summer from college. His machine will run C4W; mine is Win98, 500 MHz.

(Now if I wasn't making his truck payment things would be different!)

This game has beed added to our The History of Team Smurkz (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182143) thread. It's located in post #3.

Edit: I find it interesting that the first SGOTM that we used the name Smurkz was SGOTM9, which is the game that this one is based off of.

Edit #2: One thing though, SGOTM9 took seven months for us to complete. With any luck it won't take that long this time around. ;)

An interesting thing to note regarding Gandhi's trading partner - if we continue to trade him techs, Gandhi will like him less because he's trading with Gandhi's worst enemy (i.e. us). :crazyeye:

An interesting thing to note regarding Gandhi's trading partner - if we continue to trade him techs, Gandhi will like him less because he's trading with Gandhi's worst enemy (i.e. us). :crazyeye:

Yeah, I thought of that. The best thing I can think of is get to the Internet as fast as possible and build it in a productive city we don't want. Someone persuade Gandhi to capture it without razing it. That's the one thing I fear, is that Gandhi will raze the Internet city rather than capture it. We'll have to make it good enough to want and weak enough that there isn't any fear of it converting back to us. :hmm: We could possibly take one of Gandhi's inner cities just before we learn the needed tech, than build the Internet and allow Gandhi to take it back.

How else can we trade techs to him?

I remember the joys of hoping Gandhi wouldn't raze the GL city in SGOTM9. Wow, the T'Internet... a long, long way away! I agree with 2N, and agree that a WB would be a good starting build.

2N seems ok for me. WB first build too.
For science I'd go with Bronze working. Sooo much food that slavery should be really nice (and knowing bronze position too). After that, I agree with Mathos that pottery is not as crucial as usual. AH would be my second pick probably.

I'll be gone until Sunday afternoon, so if you prefer you can swap me in the roster, or keep discussing.

Just finished my SGOTM03 turnset so back to SWOMGT (what else) :rolleyes:
Methos should be up on the roster, do we swap him ?

Well first things first, who's the captain/whipper here ? Do we have a Niklas :lol:

Methos should be up on the roster, do we swap him ?

I'm back, so I can take it. The one thing I don't believe we've come into agreement on is which tech to research.

Well first things first, who's the captain/whipper here ? Do we have a Niklas :lol:

Niklas isn't playing this one as he doesn't have Warlords. I was just assuming zyxy was going to be the captain, though it really doesn't matter much.

Edit: How about this, since we all seem to agree on the settler move I'll play that and than post a screenie. We can't pick a tech anyway until we settle. I'll wait about an hour and than I'll play the settler move to see if anyone disagrees.

checking in.

Let's leave Methos in first place. Sunday afternoon is very soon... EDIT: x-post with Methos :lol:

Research to BW seems good to me. Followed by Pottery.

I like settling on plains hills. I would settle in place, or 2N. There seem to be a lot of hills up north, so we would probably have a better production city up there, and a better commerce city in place.

Scout NW - SW?

No good ideas on spreading research yet. Can GP's be captured?

I do not think so. GP are going to be killed...
Cultural town flipping ??

Agreed on the scout move btw. We should move the settler first, post a screenshot, then move scout.

I killed a Roman GS in my latest SGOTM03 turnset...
I think zyxy would make a fine :whipped:, he's the senior member of the team playing this game. Or Methos, were you in SGOTM7? Can't remember really...

Or Methos, were you in SGOTM7? Can't remember really...

No, I started during SGOTM8. Okay, I'll play settler 2N, post a screenie, and wait for discussion. BRB

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/Pic1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/Pic2.jpg

By the looks of it moving 2N was the best move. Just from what we can see we gain one plains hill, possibly more in the fog. We do lose some grass tiles, but I believe this city would be a production city rather than commerce.

I'm thinking possibly scout SW?

Edit: It appears everyone is an agreement on tech now, as in going for BW first. So now how about where do we settle? I'm for settling on the current spot, as in 2N from the starting position.

Settle in current spot, move Scout SW.

Settle in place, Scout NW-SW.

I tend to agree with Eldar and zyxy on the scout's move.

Okay, I'll play around 11 am (GMT -6) than. My plans are settle in place, research towards BW, and start with a WB in the queue. We typically play 20 turns each the first round, so I'll play 20.

Which tile were you planning on working? Forest (quicker WB) or Lake/Clams (quicker BW)? I think it was mentioned before, but certainly getting the WB out sooner would be better.

Which tile were you planning on working? Forest (quicker WB) or Lake/Clams (quicker BW)? I think it was mentioned before, but certainly getting the WB out sooner would be better.

I believe going for the fast WB is best IMO. After the WB probably a worker followed by a warrior, though I won't make it that far during my turnset. Getting ready to play.

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Settler 2N. Wandering Smurkz 1SW and spots gems SE of him and sugar to his SW.

Turn 1, 3970 BC: Smurkz Town founded, begins a WB while working the forested grass. Wandering Smurkz NW-W. Begin research on Mining.

Turn 5, 3850 BC: Wandering Smurkz spots light purple borders.

Turn 6, 3820 BC: Wandering found our beloved enemy Gandhi.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/Gandhi_Found.jpg

Turn 7, 3790 BC: We get a map from the GH.

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/GH_Map.jpg

Turn 8, 3760 BC:
IT- Smurkz Town's borders expand.

Turn 12, 3640 BC:
IT- Wandering Smurkz meets a Mongolian scout and we agree to peace with Genghis. Buddhism is FIADL.
Research: Mining -> Bronze Working

Turn 13, 3610 BC: Wandering moves adjacent to a lion, which isn't very good. We do gain a defensive bonus from the jungle, so we'll see.
IT- :woohoo: We shave the lions mane!! Currently at 0.7 :strength:.

Turn 15, 3550 BC: Wandering finds another GH.
[i]IT-[/b] Smurkz Town: WB -> Worker. Switches to clam tile.

Turn 16, 3520 BC: Wandering pops the GH and gets a tech:

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/bronze_working.jpg

IT- Research: BW -> Animal Husbandry I went with AH over Pottery as pottery won't be of use to us very soon, where AH will be due to the pigs.

Oh, and in case your wondering...

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/Copper.jpg

Talk about sweet! :woohoo:

Turn 17, 3490 BC: Sorry, I wasn't paying attention, so I switch back to a Warrior to let the city grown (which takes one turn).

Turn 18, 3460 BC: We need the worker, but since it appears that Gandhi's troops have only one way too go (straight at us), I think it might be wise to finish the warrior before the worker. It'll take another five turns. I decide to heal Wandering.

I stop on turn 20 at 3400 BC. Wandering Smurkz is just NW of the borders of Mongolia.

Here's a view of the lands to our SW:

http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/sgotm4/Surrounding_Lands.jpg

I like the plains tile W of the southern gold. With an irrigated grass and the improved corn we could work all three gold hills. Add to that a few cottaged grass river tiles and it would be one sweet commerce/science city.

Notes:
I felt worker techs were more important than Pottery due to our tile setup. I went for AH over Agriculture for two reasons:
Improved pigs grant us +6 :food:, whereas improved corn only grants +4 :food:.
AH brings us closer to Writing.
Let the warrior finish before going back to the worker. It appears the terrain almost directs Gandhi straight to us. I'd hate to have his warrior appear with our capitol undefended.

Roster:
Methos- Just Played
unkle- Up
Eldar- On Deck
semolina
DeafDolphin
zyxy
batchy

Here's the 3400 BC save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC3400_01.CivWarlordsSave).

Turn 1, 3970 BC: Nidaroz has been founded.

Turn 7, 3790 BC: The villagers have provided you with a map!

Turn 8, 3760 BC: The borders of Nidaroz have expanded!

Turn 12, 3640 BC: You have discovered Mining!
Turn 12, 3640 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Smurkz's Wandering Smurkz (Scout) (2.70)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 13, 3610 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Smurkz's Wandering Smurkz (Scout) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Smurkz's Wandering Smurkz (Scout) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 13, 3610 BC: Smurkz's Wandering Smurkz (Scout) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 16, 3520 BC: The villagers have given you the secrets of a new Technology!
Turn 16, 3520 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!

The BW pop was especially sweet :goodjob: That river... plenty of :commerce: around for us!

Alright, well played!

I agree that the plains tile near the gold looks like a good place to settle. But that's for later concern. I guess we first want a warrior, a worker, and another warrior. And I would like to scout the NW, to see if there's a land connection to India.

Niklas isn't playing this one as he doesn't have Warlords. I was just assuming zyxy was going to be the captain, though it really doesn't matter much.

I think zyxy would make a fine :whipped:, he's the senior member of the team playing this game. Or Methos, were you in SGOTM7? Can't remember really...

Ok, I'll handle the whip :D. Unkle, you're up!

@Methos:
Talk about a nice start :goodjob:

That's a got it in case you'd guess. I'll post plans later tonight after some brainstorming with myself, so feel free to post ideas, I'll play my turnset tomorrow anyway (unless zyxy takes his new :whipped: role with too much pleasure :lol:)

Damn...sorry. Didn't realize this was going already. Thanks for the PM, Methos.

Insert me as far down the list as you can so I can get caught up. Sorry about that again. I was so focused on SGOTM3, and my new baby, I lost track.

Just posting a first feeling: Delhi is a hell of a city :eek:

@battchy:
I was so focused on SGOTM3, and my new baby, I lost track.
Isn't that what babies are good at :D ?
And SGOTM (and Civ) also btw...

Babies make Civ playing tricky - it's hard to use both hands when holding one so everything's done with mouse clicks, one unit at a time! Sure slows you down.

Some planning, and you can/should warn me about mistakes: I usually do not play to loose (while you guys.... :D seem pretty good at that :lol: )

Long term goal
Loose to Ghandi at Space race. Which requires being powerful enough to prevent any other AI to win AND prevent Ghandi from being "bothered" in his space race....

Mid-term goal
Build a powerful civilisation (avoiding -well- defeat) and beeline to the Internet to "grant" it to Gandhi (that a long mid-term objective though).
Switching to Gandhi religion (and making others do so) is a way of giving him money, which is good (and not taking it from us I think, btw). Spying should also be very useful in not allowing anyone else to win.

Short-term goal
Explore our continent and setup a core of cities to kick-start our science (since I think that science should be key, as the more we spread out techs, the more likely Gandhi will get them, through trading and/or his research (lowered costs I think)). Refrain neighbours (Khan) to overdevelop (he can be painful, at times... :rolleyes: ).

My turnset
11 turns or so before AH. 3 turns for warrior, 12 turns for worker (a little since we'll get to size 3 by then). That's really 11 turns before any strong choice :) I like that :p
Soooo...
Well, for 10-11 turns, just use the scout (getting the warrior out for some wandering seems really risky since we are already at war...) to explore around Khan's territory, and try to meet others if possible. After the worker is out, mine bronze then pasture pigs. I would probably switch to slavery at that time to be prepared for whipping. After worker I'd suggest another warrior to go looking where Gandhi is. WB is another option (explore). Then Settler (if warrior), probably chopped ?
Science-wise, I'd go with road or agri.

Your thoughts ? I'd play 20 turns so probably won't do all of that :D anyway, and should have finished tomorrow around 22h00 CET.

I'd keep the warrior as defense. With us already at war I'd hate to have one of Gandhi's warriors just walk into our undefended capitol. With civs were at peace with you typically don't have to worry about that happening. Not so when at war.

I wouldn't switch to Slavery until after the worker is complete. That way during the turn were in anarchy the worker can still be doing something. I don't believe (though others might) a reason to switch to slavery before the worker is complete.

Also, I think it would be best to pasture the pigs before mining the copper. The additional growth is better than production at this point IMO.

I would not switch to slavery until we need the whip. I agree with Methos on pigs before copper (so that we can grow to max size quickly and start popping settlers), but it's not really a big deal. Apart from that, no complaints.

Hey guys,

After the last few days, I think I will need to recuse myself from this game. I'm having trouble keeping up with my obligations in the other SG I'm in, so I think this one would be too much and I don't want to drag you down. I'll still watch, though, as the premise for this one seems quite interesting. Sorry.

B

Ok I'll start playing now.
Just a question:
I started current GOTM, which is Ragnar also, and Colossus has been a tremendous help (we are financial, so that's a 4 commerce per sea title, and because of his UB/UU, Ragnar likes sea...). So long talk just wondering if we want to try that. This would change a few things on the research path.

Do we want to go for Metal Casting ? Do we rather beeline to Alphabet ? Would an early wonder help us dpoing that (Oracle anyone) ?

I'l play at least 11 turns before checking your answers, so that's your timeframe folks :D

Turn 0 (3400BC)
zzz (of course)
Turn 1 (3370BC)
scout S
Turn 2 (3340BC)
scout SW
Turn 3 (3310BC)
scout W
Turn 4 (3280BC)
scout W (end of land here...)
Turn 5 (3250BC)
scout back : we see land.
Turn 6 (3220BC)
scout E
Turn 7 (3190BC)
scout E blocked by Khan.
Turn 8 (3160BC)
scout back
Turn 9 (3130BC)
scout back N
Turn 10 (3100BC)
scout back N
Turn 11 (3070BC)
AH completed. Switch to agri.

Ok I need to do something else for next couple hours, so this extends your timeframe to complain :D
The save

Without even looking at the save I'd say no to agriculture. I'd rather go Writing instead and on to Alphabet. We can trade for Agri and any other cheap techs later. IMO it isn't worth it to research it ourselves.

I have a final tonight so I really shouldn't look at the save (or be on the forums), but I here it calling...:twitch:

Once worker is complete switch to Slavery.
Have the worker pasture the pigs.
After the worker I'd say a warrior and than settler.
After the worker finishes the pigs moves to copper and mines it.
After the settler the copper should be improved, so military.

I'd like to have a barracks prior to building axemen, but we might have to build at least one for barbs before building the rex. Granted, we should be able to :whipped: either the settler or barracks.

Sorry, but I only have time for the quick look as given above.

Had a look... I agree we should go for Writing, but only after The Wheel. Agri can definitely wait as we only have one tile it'd be any use for until Civil Service! Don't forget our Axes will get a free Combat I promotion so if we have to knock one out for defence before the 'rax, it'll probably be okay.

Aww, please pretty please put up some screen shots of our land and such for a poor Warlords-deprived lurker to see what's going on. :please:

Had a look... I agree we should go for Writing, but only after The Wheel.

I forgot about TW. Kind of makes it hard to build those axes without them! :lol: Switch from Agr to TW and than follow that with Writing.

:hmm: I haven't counted the beakers or worker turns, but can we go Writing first and than TW? If we'd complete TW just as we were ready to connect the copper than getting to the library might be more important. The major drawback is that if we went TW first it would make Writing cheaper.

Off hand I without doing the math, I'd say Eldar's way is the best: switch to TW and follow it with Writing.

TW would not make Writing cheaper, we'd need Pottery too in between.

TW would not make Writing cheaper, we'd need Pottery too in between.

Are you sure? TW is one of the techs that leads to Writing, or does it have to be one of the immediate techs, such as Pottery, AH, and Priesthood?

Edit: If that's the case, we may want to do the math. Granted, we'd have to look at beaker rate, worker turns, whipping, and production.

Yes, it has to be a direct prerequisite. Otherwise the bonuses for, say, Fiber Optics would be kind of huge... ;)

Yes, it has to be a direct prerequisite. Otherwise the bonuses for, say, Fiber Optics would be kind of huge... ;)

:lol: Good point! (and should have been obvious)

Doing the math....
At the moment, Writing is 268 :science:, 18 turns working the current tiles. Worker is 62/90 due in 4 turns with 0 overflow.
So that'd pop the Worker with 14 turns remaining on Writing. There are 5 turns of movement, leaving 9 turns. Those two improvements are certainly going to take > 9 turns at Epic, but not enough for us to get The Wheel in.

Unless...
We switch from working the Copper to working the lake.
Writing then goes down to 15 turns, but the worker will pop 1 turn later. Can we afford this 1 turn's loss of growth & delay in getting tiles improved to get Writing & TW quicker?

Working the lake instead:
10 turns left when worker pops;
5 turns' worker movement leaves 5 for tile improvements+TW.
I think it can be done, if only with a tiny delay which we might be able to use to mine one of the hills.

Edit: On TW making things cheaper... looks like it only makes Pottery cheaper. Pottery would make Writing cheaper....

Edit: On TW

So the question becomes, can we use this? What I mean is, by going Writing first instead of TW, will we be able to start on a library prior to finishing TW? If not, than it really doesn't matter what order we do the techs.

Prior to the library we need at least one axeman and a settler IMO and possibly others. With :whipped: and normal production can we get both and anything else we want before TW is complete?

Thought I would be playing these fast now, but I'd rather step back and do some study before spoiling some precious turns here.... It means I'am up to delivery by tomorrow then (2:00 AM is play or sleep time, not math time :D).
So sorry folks, but more to come tomorrow on TW vs Writing.

Nice thing to take into account is that with the food that we have, 1 or 2 scientists could even be worth it.... Getting an early Academy (though not in the capital) can be VERY useful.

@Niklas:
ask and thou shalt be given

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/99729/land.jpg

Yeah, an Academy here would be a waste, but getting one for the gold city (or whereever we settle) would be. :hmm: We might want to consider eventually jumping the palace.

No problem unkle, you probably didn't expect as much discussion as this! :D

@Methos:
No problem about discussing stuff, I'd rather do the right move *now* than wasting precious turns....
Plus this is a S-GOTM, right :D ? At least we are making the right move towards being top team on the length of the team's thread... :goodjob:

I'd have liked a bit more exploring north of the capital... I don't like surprises that close to home. I'd have done a sweep of 5-6 tiles right around the capital before picking a direction to go in.

Thanks for the shot unkle :) (though you might want to put it in a spoiler ;)).

I don't think you'll be starting a library before both TW and Wri are researched. But doing the maths is rather important.

Is there a reference anywhere for how long terrain improvements take? It's not in the Civilopedia, not on the reference sheet I d/l'ed from CFC, is it in the manual?

@eldar:
Found that. It does not say anything about speed impact on these numers, though...

Okay, so both Pasture and Mine are 4 turns each @ Normal (that seems about right at any rate...). We're playing Epic so multiply by 1.5 to get 6 turns each. So the worker turns would be...
1: move W-SW to Pigs (move ends)
2-7: Pasture (turns 1-6)
8: move 1 tile NE (hill, move ends)
9: move NE-E
10-15: Mine (turns 1-6)

So we'll have the Pasture and Mine in 15 turns after the Worker pops.

If we continue with working the Copper, we'll have just finished researched Writing and have been at TW for 1 turn. Do we allow for growth to size 2? If so we might have had more turns at TW if we work the Lake :hmm: Obviously after the Pasture finishes, switch to the Pigs for more food.

If we switch to the Lake, Writing will definitely be in and we'll have started on The Wheel, but it probably won't be done - we'll have had 5 turns at it.

How about a hybrid of working the Lake until the Pasture is done, then switching to the Pasture?

What are the chances that we could possibly want to start the library before Writing is completed even if we research TW first? What does the queue look like?

1: move W-SW to Pigs (move ends)

Just a note, but the tile W of Smurkz Town is a hill, meaning the worker will stop on that tile his first turn. The second turn he'll move to the pigs and start pasturizing.

Do we allow for growth to size 2? If so we might have had more turns at TW if we work the Lake :hmm: Obviously after the Pasture finishes, switch to the Pigs for more food.

How about a hybrid of working the Lake until the Pasture is done, then switching to the Pasture?

We're already at size two, so I assume you mean size three. I like the idea of working the lake until the pasture is done, so we can increase our research. Once the worker is complete the third citizen should work on the mined copper and the fourth on possibly a mined plains hill.

I'm not sure about the queue. I'd prefer a settler and at least one axeman for the barbs. With the improved clams, pigs, and copper we should be able to complete a settler in approx 14 turns without :whipped:. We'll probably need another warrior to escort the settler.

What are the chances that we could possibly want to start the library before Writing is completed even if we research TW first? What does the queue look like?

I assume you mean will our queue empty prior to completing Writing and I don't believe so.

Just a note, but the tile W of Smurkz Town is a hill, meaning the worker will stop on that tile his first turn. The second turn he'll move to the pigs and start pasturizing.

I worked out the moves whilst I had the save open this morning... however at work with no access and only screenies to reference, I guess my memory is starting to play tricks on me!

Personally whilst an ultra-early Library may be a nice theory, in practice we have more pressing concerns that need addressing. So just go with TW before Writing, but swap to the Lake for now.

I would go wheel first. Do we want to build a lib before a settler? I think with all that gold, a settler first (and probably another worker) is better. And we need some defense of course.

In that case, my preferred order would be wheel -> pottery -> writing.

I would also like a scouting warrior, to look at the north.

Ok playing now based on our discussions.

I think we reached a consensus on:
- research The Wheel (Writing should not be useful until we think we can build a Lib, and I think it won't happen soon (ie<30 turns)).
- build warrior, then settler
- switch on the lake for faster science waiting for Pasture to be finished.
- worker on Pigs then Copper

That should be quick so I'll update later on today.

Turn 11, 3070BC
Continued.
Switch research on TW, switch city from copper->Lake. We gain 2 turns for research (TW due in 9 turns), loose one on the worker.

Turn 12, 3040BC
Scout move.

Turn 13, 3010BC
Scout move.

Turn 14, 2980BC
Scout move.

Turn 15, 2950BC
Scout move.

Turn 16, 2920BC
Worker completed, sent toward pigs. Switch to warrior.
Current city production (8(+4)F/2H/7C) leads to:
- growth in 5 turns (required 20)
- warrior in 10 (required 22, we have 2 overflow, would leave a 0 overflow)
- wheel in 4 turns (required 52, science at rate 15, would leave a 8 overflow)

We want:
- warrior->settler
- TW->(Pottery ?)->Writing

Switch 2 turns to forest for getting warrior earlier. This means 6 beakers lost, but warrior ready 4 turns earlier, which seems worth it. TW still due in 4 turns, warrior and growth will be aligned with the end of the pasture.

Turn 17, 2860BC
Pasture started, due in 6 turns.
Scout move.

Turn 18, 2830BC
Forest grows (yummy chops anyone) :lol:
Scout move.

IBT: Hinduism is discovered somewhere.

Turn 19, 2800BC
TW discovered.
I'll stop here for next tech discussion (picked writing but it can be changed now to pottery if we want without penalty (at least I hope :blush: )).
Note that growth is in 2 turns, pasture in 3, warrior in 3 (since working forest for 1 turn before pasture is ready would complete it).

The save

Log:
Turn 22, 3340 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Smurkz Town. Work has now begun on a Worker.

Turn 30, 3100 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

Turn 37, 2890 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Slavery!

Turn 38, 2860 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 39, 2830 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Current world (for our beloved lurkers :D ):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/99729/theworld-2800.png

I'll stop here for next tech discussion (picked writing but it can be changed now to pottery if we want without penalty (at least I hope :blush: )).
Yes it can, no worries. And thanks for the pic. :)

If possible play the last turn and post today - my best window for playing is at the weekend. However I don't see any harm in starting to form a vague plan for my turns now. I presume I'll have a settler to direct late on in the set, so I'll plan towards that; we should think of where it should go. Tech looks pretty much settled along the Pottery->Writing line.

I'll be back at lunchtime ;)

I think it's useful to chop another worker, and only after that build an axe and a settler. There are easily two or three good settling spots near our capital, but there seems to be little or no competition for them. I have not done any calculations, but workers are always useful and help to increase our production speed.

I would let our scout walk back towards our capital, and then scout the north.

Second worker for second city, right? Otherwise, it's not much help for Smurkz Town.

He could help in building a road to the site. I'm still thinking it would be best to build the settler before the worker.

Improving the copper and perhaps corn tiles, chopping, mining, roading, cottaging... lots to do, even around our capital.

But yes, settler first might be better.

Any progress here? It's been eerily quiet.

Any progress here? It's been eerily quiet.

I believe there was a slight misunderstanding. Unkle stopped one turn short and I believe Eldar was waiting for him to finish, when I believe unkle thought he was. Or something like that. Either way, might as well pass it on to Eldar. Just play his last turn for him, making it 21 turns.

Roster:
Methos
unkle- Just Played
Eldar- Up
semolina- On Deck
DeafDolphin
zyxy

Oops :blush: I'll head into it this evening then. 21 turns, building a Settler, researching Pottery->Writing. General "stuff" with the Worker (anything except improving the corn as we don't have Argi yet).

Oops too :blush:
I should have made the fact that I considered my turn finished clear.
Sorry for that Eldar.

Question:
- would chopping the settler be a good option ?
- when do we switch to slavery ?

I'd like a stop when settler is available in order for a team dotmapping :D

I suspect that'll be during my turns, so I will do. How about we swap to slavery as soon as the warrior's out?

I suspect that'll be during my turns, so I will do. How about we swap to slavery as soon as the warrior's out?

Originally I thought the plan was switch to Slavery as soon as the worker was finished. Since we missed it, might as well do it after the warrior.

Why switch to slavery before we want to do any whipping? I would wait until we need the whip...

Speaking of which, it seems I need to use the whip more... :whipped: :D

Why switch to slavery before we want to do any whipping? I would wait until we need the whip...


Will we want to use the whip on the settler, or chop it? We've got the extra :food: to handle the :whipped:, so I don't see a reason not too. I guess it all depends on when we will definitely need it.

Right, I think I've reached a decision point.

The mine is finished. I've stuck with the lake up to now for the settler, the extra coin I felt was more important. Working the mine will now shave 2 turns off the settler - but it will add 2 turns to the research of Writing.

Plus we need a :whipped: decision. If we decide YES, I'll revolt the turn the whip cost would be 1 citizen (we want a quick settler not overflow).

I would speed up the settler. Getting the second town two turns sooner will probably help us more than getting a few extra coins.

Switching to slavery to speed the settler sounds fine to me.

Anyway, you have the game open and can probably decide best.

I would definitely whip the settler.

Revolt to Slavery. Getting the settler out pronto is more important, since it'll begin generating commerce and beakers that much more earlier, which will save time later on research.

Thanks for the input :) To re-iterate... swap to Copper & then to slavery when the whip cost is 1 citizen, and :whipped: 'dem citizens outta town! Gottit. I'll report back with a pic when ready.

The Settler has popped, and we have two decisions to make:
1. Where to send the Settler.
2. What to build next, I've picked Barracks but that is of course subject to change :)

Screenies are attached. The first shows some interesting news: much like in SGOTM9, Gandhi is cut off from us until he can build boats. Of course he has a bit more room to play with, and he can probably already build boats, but it's news of a sort! The second gives the general field of play for the settler. There's still some fog directly north of Smurkz Town, I felt it more useful to ascertain Gandhi's "isolation" from us first.


----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 40 (2800 BC)
User comment: Pre-flight: switch tech queue to Pottery->Writing
Research begun: Pottery
Research begun: Writing

Turn 41 (2770 BC)
User comment: Uh-oh! Wandering Smurkz comes across some Lions in a neighbouring forest....
Smurkz Town grows: 3

Turn 42 (2740 BC)
User comment: The Cowardly Lions ignore our :strength: Wandering Smurkz!
Smurkz Town finishes: Warrior
Scout defeats (0.80/1): Barbarian Lion

Turn 43 (2710 BC)
Smurkz Town begins: Settler
Wandering Smurkz (Scout) promoted: Combat I
User comment: Wandering Smurkz is attacked by the Cowardly Lions, and wins a glorious victory! Wandering Smurkz are rewarded with a Combat I promotion. If we're lucky, Wandering Smurkz will make it to 5XP to get a Medic I promotion.
User comment: Our Warrior, Meandering Smurkz, heads off out of town to poke around the local surroundings.

Turn 44 (2680 BC)
User comment: Wandering Smurkz spots some bears from atop a hill. Luckily Grizzly Bearz are slow and far away. Wandering Smurkz will want to avoid Grizzly Bearz.

Turn 45 (2650 BC)
User comment: Workers start to mine the Copper.

Turn 46 (2620 BC)

Turn 47 (2590 BC)
User comment: Meandering Smurkz spots new light blue/purple/whatever borders... Gandhi has a new city already!

Turn 48 (2560 BC)
User comment: Wandering Smurkz, having escaped the attentions of Grizzly Bearz, spots some Marble.

Turn 49 (2530 BC)
User comment: There are Pantherz in the forest....
Tech learned: Pottery

Turn 50 (2500 BC)
User comment: Stop here. Two reasons: 1 the mine is ready, we can swap Lake for Mine to get Settler done 2 turns quicker, but Writing done 2 turns slower. I'm also keeping an eye on the whip cost. Do we want to whip? I've not switched to slavery yet. 2 dinner is ready :)

Turn 51 (2470 BC)

Turn 52 (2440 BC)
User comment: Wandering Smurkz find themselves facing Pantherz....
User comment: Meanwhile, up North, Meandering Smurkz discover that Gandhi's troops probably can't reach us without the aid of boats.
Scout defeats (0.36/1): Barbarian Panther

Turn 53 (2410 BC)

Turn 54 (2380 BC)
User comment: Wandering Smurkz defeats the Pantherz, but is hurt. Wandering Smurkz decides to sit and heal for a bit.
User comment: The people of Smurkz Town decide that they wish to be slaves, though. Some of them are :whipped: out of town, and will be ready to leave next turn.
Smurkz Town finishes: Settler

Turn 55 (2350 BC)
Smurkz Town begins: Barracks

Wow! Talk about confusing with the diagonal grid. I thought the first pic looked rather odd. The second pic made me understand why. Looks like someones having trouble getting over [civ3]! :D

Edit: Roster removed due to my error :blush:

Hold yer horses... I still have 5 turns to play :D

Seems like some of us do not want to loose any precious turns, hey :D ?

Well I'd like to have a save to help pass the dizzyness I am feeling after seeing those screen shots :lol:

Seriously we need some dotmapping. And I am not so sure one city should/can work all the gold... (Corn=6F=2Gold)

Your wish is my command: >>Save<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC2350_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Hold yer horses... I still have 5 turns to play :D

Sorry, I have a tendency to jump the gun on turns. I don't know how many times I've declared got it and it wasn't even my turnset! :lol:

BTW, I edited the above roster post. Sorry... :blush:

Ouch. Not that easy to dotmap.
One question is do we want to leave "some" room for Ghandi to expand ?
From what we know, he does not have a huge landmass at hand...

One question is do we want to leave "some" room for Ghandi to expand ?
From what we know, he does not have a huge landmass at hand...

For now, no, as there's no reason to let him expand too much. We need to get ourselves up and running first, so that we can prepare Gandhi for his expansion. Remember, expanding Gandhi won't be too tough. We just waylay the areas around him so that he can settle it peacefully. I realize we don't want to just leave Gandhi behind, but neither do we want him to do that to us.

I'd forgotten how much fun this variant was! :)

Well, what do we want our 2nd city to be? Production - settle by the gold, share the pigs, farm some plains, and get coin and hammer. Food - we'd have to go further afield, learn agri and IW. Commerce - the river with its various luxuries seems ideal, but it's a way off.

Tech-wise I presume we're headed down Writing->Alpha and hope to pick up Agri, Archery, etc. from Genghis? It looks like it's just the three of us so tech trading is probably going to be limited. Maybe prioritize Sailing and explore the coasts. Or knock out a work boat to do the same?

Plus: when Writing comes in, chances are Genghis will ask for Open Borders. Yae or nae?

In the question of expansion, i am for a 2nd town on the river to share pigs and gold, and then the 3rd to get the corn just south of 2nd town. But i do think we should try to seal up a southern border with genghis (and claim the luxuries) as soon as possible. In that respect, we may not be able to avoid having gandhi settle on our side, seeing as how he already has expanded before us. So we don't need to make any decisions concerning that for awhile, we'll be busy enough getting our own kingdom established.

Open borders with genghis will be almost necessary to tech trade with him, so i say yay.

Sailing is a good idea, need to explore those seas!

Not easy to dotmap at all.

Our capital is a great production center and needs 9 surplus food to work all 5 (mined) hills (4 plain, 1 grass). It has access to exactly 9 surplus food (4 from pig, 2 from CC, 3 from corn), so this is enough, but sharing the pigs is maybe not such a good idea.

I would rather not settle too close to India. She may need all the room she can get. I don't think we can count on getting the fish.

Here's an attempt at a dotmap (feel free to improve):
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/zyxy/DotmapBC2350.jpg

Red Dot (commerce) can generate more than enough food to work the 3 gold mines if we farm the corn and a few of the grasslands. It can be moved 1 tile SE for more grass and less plains and water. Come to think of it, I like that spot better.
Yellow Dot (commerce or GP) will be strong once we get to Calendar.
Blue Dot (commerce or GP) takes a lot of work but can either be cottaged for commerce or farmed for a GP farm. It might be better to move it one tile down, to get the horses, if the Khan permits.
Green Dot is not so great (maybe commerce?) but is a decent coastal town and grabs the horses.


EDIT: here's a version with Red Dot and Blue Dot moved:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/zyxy/DotmapBC2350b.jpg

@Eldar: Did you finish your last five turns? I saw that you posted a save, but wasn't for sure if that was due to the request or because you were done.

I was waiting for dotmaps so I know where to move the settler. I've not finished yet. Looking at the first efforts, Red Dot appears sensible. It's a good commerce centre, plus it'll help seal our southern borders.

@zyxy:
I like your second design, but why not move the red dot 1E ? I do not think we loose anything and it has less overlap (ok one tile less...). Just a thought, though and better land use.

I do think green is not bad, considering Ragnar being financial. Did I already said that an attempt at last WOTM has proven to me that Ragnar+Collossus(+Lighthouse btw) is awsome for science :D ?

Why not getting a fish'n'explore boat ? I'd like to meet new friends :rolleyes: Of course we could wait for sailing. We need to increase tech trading so that Gandhi can research/trade for cheap...

@zyxy:
I like your second design, but why not move the red dot 1E ? I do not think we loose anything and it has less overlap (ok one tile less...). Just a thought, though and better land use.

I prefer where red dot is in the 2nd screenshot. If we move it 1E like you suggest we lose three river tiles. Since this is a science/commerce city it would be wise to keep those within the city radius for this city. Leave red dot where it is IMO.

:hmm: If we use red dot from the first image we gain the bonuses from being a port city, yet we don't gain the :food: bonus right off the bat as in the 2nd image. The 1st image though gains us less river tiles than that of the 2nd one. It's a bit of a toss up for me. I like them both, but I'm leaning more towards red dot from the second image.

Red Dots 1 & 2 both have 6 river tiles. Coastal will only really benefit if we have the Great Lighthouse.

I like the 2nd red dot placement better as well. Should be a nice commerce city.

We seem to all prefer the second dotmap.
I still think that the 3 river tile won't be "that" useful. This is at best +3c, and at least one of them will be farmed in order to use the 3 Golds (we probably want 2/3 farms, irrigated, to work all golds and have the city grow). So +2C seems "a little" marginal to me... In any case I will agree with what the rest of the team and eldar decide :D

Second consideration for First Red Dot over Second. Doesn't our UB give an extra trade route? Or is that really not worth it?

Edit: Oops, it gives Nav 1. Nice but not really useful in this situation.

Our UB is a harbour, so it's +50 trade route yield. Which is nice.
+1 Navi is ok (since it is not a promotion) too.

Our UB (Trading Post) is a lighthouse-replacement which gives Nav 1 not a harbour replacement (Carthage gets the harbour replacement). Makes sailing a pretty much must-have, and possibly build one of them before knocking out a Galley/Trireme.

@eldar:
My mistake on the UB...
Do you plan to play your turns today ? Smurkz team is having some -hum- issues in SGOTM03 (we are late AND Monte is, well, Monte) so I'd like us to get a good pace in this SGOTM.

There seems to be an agreement on Red 2 so go go go :goodjob:

Okay Red 2 it will be, I'll play them this evening.
Or: if someone can post a "Got It" and play before I get home (which will be approx. 1900GMT, 2000CET, 1400EST, 1100PT...) then feel free. As the man says, this game needs to get a move on :D

@Eldar:
I'd rather let you finish ;) Plus if I say got it, that would be, well, weird.

Let's go Smurkz :goodjob:

@Eldar: if you play today it should be fine. Some delay for discussion is not bad at all.

Starting now, sending Settler to Red 2. Meandering Smurkz (warrior) will head down there for MP/protection, and I'll wake the Scout and send him north to finish up there.

:mad: :cry: :( nooooo! the Settler just arrived in place and landed right next to a sodding Barb Warrior!!!!! In 2260BC?! I know the Barb settings are high and this is Monarch but this sucks BIG TIME. We just lost our settler.

[Edit] Closer inspection reveals a Barb city 2 tiles SW, so we wouldn't have been able to settle there anyway. Man. Not happy :( I've uploaded the save as things stand here, and I'll call it a day for this set. >>Save<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC2260_01.CivWarlordsSave)

How come we didn't assign an escort, or failing that, even send the scout as an escort? :|

Out come the whips again.

My fault, I guess. Even so a Scout escort would've died. Even a warrior might not've worked. I'll go quietly hang myself....

Ouch... :(

My fault, I guess. Even so a Scout escort would've died. Even a warrior might not've worked. I'll go quietly hang myself....

No need to hang yourself. We all make mistakes now and then, dude. I guess we just try again and whip out another settler and send it with 2 escorts. :p

Let's keep on moving! :D

Roster:
Methos
unkle
Eldar- Just Played
semolina- Up
DeafDolphin- On Deck
zyxy

*swings his thunderbat, ready to slug*

Hrm. Best read the rules and figure out how to do this so I don't screw up. I've not played in a SGOTM before. :p

hey guys, i must ask to be skipped for my turn, i could chug through it tonite, but then have no time for discussion/advice, as i leave tomorrow morning for a 1.5 week trip. So i'll take my next turn.

sucks with the settler, but at least it wasn't a bear, which has happened to me numerous times.

so whip away gentlemen!

With Semolina skipping his turn, I'm up.

Okay, some questions that weren't answered by the rules. Do I have to have Autolog on? (I've never even bothered using it before, and I have no idea where the player log is at, heh :blush: ).

I'll post a screenie of the beginning, along with all of the relevant information, and figure out what to do next, per discussion here.

Map is below.

Smurkz Town data:

Researching: Writing, completion in 7 turns.
Science output/turn: 12 Beakers.
Growth: 1 turn to size 3, 8 excess food/turn (IIRC).
Producing: Barracks, 8 turns to completion.

Units:

Worker, to the SW: Building road, 3 turns to completion.
Scout to our NE: 0.6 health out of 1.
Meandering Smurkz is far to the NW.
Our settler is about to get massacred to the far SW.

Okay, where do we do from here, what to put in the Queue and work?

Personally, I'm for switching to another warrior and sending Meandering Smurkz with him down to that nest of barbs and cleaning their clocks out. After we produce the warrior, start on a settler, whip him to completion when the cost = 1, then resume barracks.

Researchwise, it really doesn't matter which way we go, I think. We could go for CoL and the Oracle, for the slingshot to CS (And Bureaucracy), or we can grab Alphabet and acquire techs from other Civilizations as we encounter them; and as a benefit, spread techs around in the hope that our beloved Indian friends get some ;)

Why whip a warrior when we could whip an Axeman and really sort them out?

Ouch. I've lost so many settlers to barb that I tend to escort them even just outside my borders.

But oh well. Question is - where will we settle now? That barb town ruins all our spots...

I would build but not whip an Axe, followed by building another settler. Smurkz Town should be size 4 at least IMO.

Do I have to have Autolog on? (I've never even bothered using it before, and I have no idea where the player log is at, heh :blush: ).

No, it is not required, though sometimes easier. It all depends on your own preference. I typically tab out and just write everything in editpad. If you don't like tabbing out you could use the autologger, or just try and remember everything and post from that! Sorry, but my memory sucks. :lol:

BTW, if you do use autologger make sure its totally setup prior to using it. The default path isn't correct as I recall.

Sorry, I can't offer more. RL won't allow it. :blush:

Why whip a warrior when we could whip an Axeman and really sort them out?

Erm. Misunderstanding there. Build a warrior, whip the settler.

But oh well. Question is - where will we settle now? That barb town ruins all our spots...

I would build but not whip an Axe, followed by building another settler. Smurkz Town should be size 4 at least IMO.

Zyxy is right. Whip an Axe out. Then follow Eldar's plan and really sort those barbs out. :lol: Then we can build where we originally planned, assuming a warrior escorts the settler *this* time.

No, it is not required, though sometimes easier. It all depends on your own preference. I typically tab out and just write everything in editpad. If you don't like tabbing out you could use the autologger, or just try and remember everything and post from that! Sorry, but my memory sucks. :lol:

BTW, if you do use autologger make sure its totally setup prior to using it. The default path isn't correct as I recall.


Noticed the default path isn't correct. I'll just tab like you do and write it down.

Okay, so build/whip (at what point do we want to whip?) an Axe, follow with settler, settle in the original location. Agreed?

What about research, suggestions?

Hey, dudes. I'd like some input before I play this thing, otherwise, I'll just have to chart my own course. :p *prods everyone*

@DeafDolphin:
Cannot open the save right now, but if you'd post a plan (like what you would research, build,go) that would help getting some input :lol:
Even for your first SGOTM, do not be afraid to present your ideas, they should be as good/bad as ours :D

1. Switch from Barracks to Axeman.
2. Send Axeman a-barb hunting with Meandering Smurkz.
3. Let the scout explore SW to determine the location of the barb city and it's defenders (Safely).
4. Build/whip a settler after the Axeman to settle in our 2nd red dot location.
5. Research to Alphabet to gain tech trading.

And I did suggest all of that in an earlier post, #140. :p

Even for your first SGOTM, do not be afraid to present your ideas, they should be as good/bad as ours :D

Yes, I totally agree with unkle. All ideas, bad or good. Sometimes through team discussion even the bad ideas turn out to be good ones! :lol:

1. Switch from Barracks to Axeman.

I'm confused on this one. Are you saying complete the barracks first, or switch prior to it finishing?

2. Send Axeman a-barb hunting with Meandering Smurkz.

I don't know about the others, but I tend to like to keep at least one axe (preferrably more) around our city(ies) to help fight off the more aggressive barbs. If we have enough troops than station the weak ones on hills as fog busters.

And I did suggest all of that in an earlier post, #140. :p

We're supposed to read peoples posts!! ;)

I'm off to look at the save.

I'm confused on this one. Are you saying complete the barracks first, or switch prior to it finishing?


We're supposed to read peoples posts!! ;)



Switch to Axeman prior to finishing the barracks, and queue up settler in front of the barracks. Make it last on the list.

Yes, you're supposed to read... *mutters and scowls @ methos, while jabbing him with a flipper*

And the axeman... use it for clobbering that barb city, then bring it back, just to clarify :)

First off, I must say that's just cruel of you Eldar. You left the save so that we can see the barb ready to pounce on our settler. And to think, DeafDolphin has to be the one who watches him go down by the sword. Man, what cruelty you show. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't want to see that either! :lol:

The barracks can be completed in three turns if on the third turn we switch off the clams and work any tile with at least one :hammers: for a single turn. I don't see a reason to complete the barracks in three turns rather than four, but it can be done. Just make sure next turn the citizen from growth works the mined copper.
As soon as the worker completes the road I'd suggest starting a mine on one of the plains hills. We'd still have +6 :food: while working the pigs, clams, copper, and my mined hill.
Depending on which way the barb goes after he puts the settler to the sword, we may want to rush the ax. It also depends on when the +1 :mad: goes away too, so you'll need to watch that.
After the axemen I'm thinking we'll want to put a settler prior to our second axemen. We need a second city soon.
Definitely Alphabet after Writing, so we can trade for all the techs we skipped.
I'm not so sure about getting a library soon anymore, not since we lost our settler. We need a few troops and another settler first. I'd like that early GS, but I'm not sure we can afford the time right now.

The barracks can be completed in three turns if on the third turn we switch off the clams and work any tile with at least one :hammers: for a single turn. I don't see a reason to complete the barracks in three turns rather than four, but it can be done. Just make sure next turn the citizen from growth works the mined copper.

Depending on which way the barb goes after he puts the settler to the sword, we may want to rush the ax. It also depends on when the +1 :mad: goes away too, so you'll need to watch that.

After the axemen I'm thinking we'll want to put a settler prior to our second axemen. We need a second city soon.

Definitely Alphabet after Writing, so we can trade for all the techs we skipped.


I still say the barracks can wait. Axeman before anything else gets done, then the settler, then finish off the barracks. Why waste turns for a building that's non-essential at this point?

Your point on the copper is noted, and I agree. I'm sending the scout down to that area to take a look see at where everyone is.

Alpha it is.

Anyone else have input before I play the turn this evening?

I've posted my comments before. Like Methos, I would keep our axes near home to escort settlers and protect cities.

With the barb town where it is, do we still have settling spots left?

@DeafDolphin:
Sorry missed that post :blush:
I was still under shock I guess :p :D

I would get at least one or two axes (would chop for them btw in order to kick some barbs (:evil:) before settling. And fog busting too (watching if gandhi arrives would be good too). Then get some settlers out (our spots are taken by the way). I tend to agree on making barracks and Library not a priority.

Anyway DeafDolphin, in the end, you decide :D :goodjob:

I tend to agree on making barracks and Library not a priority.

I'm curious as to why you both see the need to put the barracks on the backburner for now. At the most it'll take four turns to complete the barracks and if you stunt growth for one turn we can complete it in three turns. That's more XP which is excellent IMO. So I'm confused as to why you feel we should wait.

I realize the barb warrior is close by, but our own warrior in the capitol is more than enough to whip the barb. I can't see the barbs sending enough at us to require more than the single warrior in our capitol for now. I believe we can wait the three or four additional turns for the barracks to complete.

Chopping the forest to hurry one of the axemen is probably worth it. You could probably stop the worker who is building a road and have him chop that tile he's on.

@Methos:
I tend to think an aggressive civ can handle not having barracks if required... But it is true the 4 more turns we can probably wait. Mmmmm
Maybe just that I need revenge quick :D

Would chopping for barracks increase the overflow in the Axeman ? Can't remember if this "bug" has been solved.

Would chopping for barracks increase the overflow in the Axeman ? Can't remember if this "bug" has been solved.

I believe the bug was solved in either [c4w] or in the HoF mod, but I'm fairly certain it is fixed for this game. I don't believe we could get a forest chopped before the barracks is done. Remember that since we're aggressive we earn +100% :hammers:, hence the reason we can complete the barracks so quickly. Just by working the mined copper we'll gain +8 :hammers:. Once we start the axe we lose that bonus.

If we start chopping now, it should go to the axemen just as we're starting it. Granted, I can't remember offhand what speed we're playing, so don't recall how long it takes to chop.

If the team prefers to put a hold on the barracks thats fine, I just wanted to emphasize that we can complete it in three turns just in case not everyone realized that.

@Methos & DeafDolphin:
Thinking a little more about that, getting a barracks should help us in getting stronger axemen, which could be useful. So after wanting some fast barbarian bloodfest, maybe getting barracks can be better. Our capital will probably be anyway a troop production center, at least in the beginning...

The only thing is that we'll need some (2?) settlers after barracks/axeman.

Barracks, Axeman, Settler it is.

Writing -> Alphabet.

Worker will change from road to chopping, timed to complete AFTER we start working on the Axeman.

Anything else, dudes?

Anything else, dudes?

You mean apart from a :beer: ? :D
Seems fine for me. After that taking out those barbs should be doable.

Hey, I want a :beer: too. :p This round is on you, Methos. ;)

Hey, I want a :beer: too. :p This round is on you, Methos. ;)

You'll have to drink it for me, as I don't drink. I'm sure you won't mind. :D

Even if the worker switches from road to chopping this very turn, it should still complete about when we start the axe.

@Methos:
As far as I am concerned, having a :beer: is not drinking :D (well not drinking too much, at least).
Ice tea then :p ?

Alrighty. Log below.


Player Log

2260 BC - Turn 58
Shifted from working the clam to the copper mine, and changed workers assignment from roading to chopping.

2230 BC - Turn 59
Watched settler get butchered, despite a valiant attempt at defense. Scout begins moving SW to scout out the territory.

2200 BC - Turn 60
Scout finds barbarian warrior on site of massacre, establishes proof of same. Meandering Smurkz begins shifting south for possible defense if needed. Smurkz town grows to 3, new growth works clam.

2170 BC - Turn 61
Scout ambushed by Barbarian warrior and killed.

2140 BC - Turn 62
Meandering Smurkz continues to move SW.

2110 BC - Turn 63
Chopping finished, +30 Hammers to Smurkz Town.

2080 Bc - Turn 64
Worker set to road on site of forest clearing.

2050 BC - Turn 65
Axeman produced, accidently given Healing I instead of Shock (EH! Sorry!). Smurkz Town grows to 4. Settler training begun. Axeman begins moving SW. Meandering Smurkz starts moving NE towards original post.

2020 BC - Turn 66
Writing completed. Began research on Alphabet. Worker moved to pig pasture to create route.

1990 BC - Turn 67
Axeman spots Massacre Barbarian, moves towards him with a Viking Battle Cry.

1960 BC - Turn 68
Barbarian warrior moves north in a futile attempt to escape his just punishment. Attempt fails, the butcher is executed.

1930 BC - Turn 69
Worker completes pasture route. Moves NE to hill directly west of Smurkz Town to begin a mine on the next turn. Meandering Smurkz reaches original posting. Axeman continues towards boundries of barbarian city.

1900 BC - Turn 70
Axeman spots barbarian warrior, prepares to attack. Meandering Smurkz uncovers a tile while moving, discovers sheep and has lamb chops for supper.

1870 BC - Turn 71
Barbarian warrior destroyed by our glorious and victorious Viking Axeman.

1840 BC - Turn 72
Axeman promoted, selects Shock. Meandering Smurkz spots possible anomaly, moves NW to investigate something strange - Mountains, possibly blocking Ghandi from us.

1810 BC - Turn 73
Axeman moves west, spots Barbarian City named Hurrian, defended by 2 warriors.

1780 BC - Turn 74
Hurrian destroyed. Other barbarian warrior must have escaped. Settler rushed.

1750 BC - Turn 75
Settler is escorted by Smurkz Town defender, leaving Smurkz Town temporarily undefended. Meandering Smurkz discovers mountains indeed block Ghandi from us. Other barbarian warrior from Hurrian appears and is duly executed. Set production to Axeman.

1720 BC - Turn 76
Nothing to report, settler/warrior continue moving.

1690 BC - Turn 77
Smurkz Town border expands.

1660 BC - Turn 78
Worker finishes mine, begins road to new city site. Settler/Warrior is 1 square east of the proposed site. Axeman moves nearby, and is set to healing mode.


>>SAVE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC1660_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Maps attached as thumbnails. One is our Northern territory. One is our Southern boundaries. The last one is Smurkz Town itself.

Okay, we need to move that settler one more west and then settle there. This was a fun one. At least we know Ghandi can't get to us easily, and that gives us a lot of room to expand in.

I haven't had a chance to look at the save, but from the screenshots I'm curious why Smurkz Town isn't defended? It looks like we have the fog pushed back not to worry, but I'm still hesitant to leave her undefended.

Also, don't worry about promoting units yet. There's no need. We've typically waited until the promotion was needed, so we can make sure the unit has the promo that is needed at that time. Don't worry about it, as shock (your intention) would have worked great for the job he has been assigned for.

I hope you enjoyed your first SGOTM turnset! Now you have to worry about getting hooked like I did!

As I indicated in the log, I sent the warrior from Smurkz Town along temporarily. After the settler founds the city, the warrior can return to Smurkz town. Besides, a new Axeman will be ready in 4 turns, and can be rushed if need be. I thought it safer to have an escort, considering the trouble we've had with barbs.

And yes, I'm hooked! Thank you for dragging me into this, mate. :)

Hmm. Who's up to bat?

Well done!

Hmm. Who's up to bat?

Me, and I've got it. I'll play tomorrow.

Plans:
- settle Gold Town at Red Dot (between the corn and gold). It will start a lib.
- after the axe Smurkz Town will probably do a worker followed by another settler (and possibly some military in between). We need the worker to connect our towns and hook up the gold.
- I think I'll research Agri before Alpha. We could use farms on both corn tiles.

- settle Gold Town at Red Dot (between the corn and gold). It will start a lib.
- after the axe Smurkz Town will probably do a worker followed by another settler (and possibly some military in between). We need the worker to connect our towns and hook up the gold.
- I think I'll research Agri before Alpha. We could use farms on both corn tiles.

Agreed on Lib and Agri.
We'll have only one trading partner for now... so alpha seems less sensitive.
I'd like some sea exploration too. WB ? Or Sailing ?

@DeafDolphin:
:goodjob:
Nice to have you on board Smurkz team :D

Plans:
- settle Gold Town at Red Dot (between the corn and gold). It will start a lib.
- after the axe Smurkz Town will probably do a worker followed by another settler (and possibly some military in between). We need the worker to connect our towns and hook up the gold.
- I think I'll research Agri before Alpha. We could use farms on both corn tiles.

Agreed with the research, since it doesn't seem so urgent with Ghandi blocked off like that. Your build plans look terrific. Another worker would help on the speed for sure.

@DeafDolphin:
:goodjob:
Nice to have you on board Smurkz team :D

Thanks, dude. :crazyeye:

Turn 0, 1660BC: research to Agri.

Turn 1, 1630BC: zzz.

Turn 2, 1600BC: Khan wants OB and gets it. I want this guy on our side. Smurkz Town grows and is unhappy.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/zyxy/Smurkz4_BC1600_Treazure.jpg
The new town, Treazure, starts a lib.

Turn 3, 1570BC: zzz.

Turn 4, 1540BC: Smurkz Town Axe -> worker (and is happy again).

Turn 5, 1510BC: Judaism founded in a distant land. And this turns out to be Ghandi.

Turn 6, 1480BC: Ghandi switches to OR. We find a source of fish somewhere NE of Smurkz Town.

Turn 7, 1450BC: our warrior runs into a barb warrior.

Turn 8, 1420BC: we kill the barb on defense.

Turn 9, 1390BC: discover Agri and continue on Alpha.

Turn 10, 1360BC: Smurkz Town worker -> axe.

Turn 11, 1330BC: zzz.

Turn 12, 1300BC: zzz.

Turn 13, 1270BC: zzz.

Turn 14, 1240BC: our warrior meets a barb archer, but fortunately we can withdraw.

Turn 15, 1210BC: Ghandi built Stonehenge.

Turn 16, 1180BC: Smurkz Town axe -> workboat.

Turn 17, 1150BC: Now our axe meets the same archer.

Turn 18, 1120BC: Barb ignores the axe.

Turn 19, 1090BC: kill the barb. A barb town appeared to our south.

Turn 20, 1060BC: Smurkz Town would grow and become unhappy just before the gold mine finishes, so I temporarily switch to settler.

Turn 21, 1030BC: I'll play two more to get to a nice year.

Turn 22, 1000BC: The gold mine finishes and so Smurkz Town is switched back to WB and will grow next turn. The WB can be used for exploration, for example to the island in the SW.
One of our axes spies on the barb town Scythian. It is defended by three axes, so we need to bring quite a few troops to take it. I'll leave full movement on the other axe, but I would move it back towards Treazure to defend it. Scythian is not in a bad location btw, and perhaps it would pay off to train a few more axes after (or even before?) the settler.

I think we should settle Green Dot next. Yellow Dot is of little use until we get IW (and that would be my next tech choice).

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC1000_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Before I forget....

Roster:
Methos- Up
unkle- On Deck
Eldar
semolina
DeafDolphin
zyxy- Just Played

Got it....
....and will try and look at it later. Looks great so far!

@unkle: Do you mind switching with me? I'm also up in SGOTM3 and today was my turn as DP in the Demogame II. Since SGOTM3 ends this month I figure it takes priority.

Consider it a swap, please, if unkle can.

Hey Methos, congratz (with a Smurkzy Z) on your elevation to HOF staff! :) How much to get me to the top spot? ;-)

@Methos:
Agreed on a swap. I will play tomorrow though since I still did not even look at it. Planning later tonight or tomorrow during lunch time.

Ok will not play before tomorrow, but here are my first thoughts:
- WB on explore mode (err... I mean manual exploration mode, for sure :D )
- Next is Settler, whipped asap (1 pop), then Axe (would the other way around be better ?)
- I do not really like the barb town settlement. Not even grabing horse, and interfering a lot with potential city sites...
- Settler to green (Horse + Gem + Sugar)
- research on IW after alpha
- we'll need some workers as soon as IW is available (and when cultural expansion of Treazure will be done). Mining the grassland hill is my first target.

I'll probably use the 2 workers to build a road to the green dot , but I need to move axes for fogbusting... Hmf. so maybe not.

Razing the barb city requires 3 axes, so we have to wait a little.

First thoughts just looking at the save so feel free to comment.

Hey Methos, congratz (with a Smurkzy Z) on your elevation to HOF staff! :)

Thankz!

How much to get me to the top spot? ;-)

:lol:

Plan looks good to me. I am not really a fan of whipping when there are good tiles available, but I guess it might be worth it.

Alternative actions for the workers are chopping, improving the corn at ST, or hooking up the horses. And of course a few more gold mines when Treazure expands.

Plan seems fine :-) Though obviously look around for trade opportunities when Alpha comes in (hey, it wasn't on the plan...). Any thoughts to techs to prioritise, if we can get 'em?

Turn 0 1000 BC
Axe back to Treazure.

Turn 1 985 BC
Worker on mine. WB on explore. Axe back to town and fogbusting. See that research was at 80%... Mmmm. Switch back to 90% (1 turn gained on alpha).

Turn 2 970 BC
zzz

Turn 3 955 BC
zzz

Turn 4 940 BC
Worker sent to Corn in ST.

Turn 5 925 BC
zzz

Turn 6 910 BC
Finally not whipping the settler... Seems not yet worth it.

Turn 7 895 BC
Spot a Mongol city and a barb one with the WB.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/99729/mapping.jpg

Turn 8 880 BC
Settler completed. Start an Axe, will whip early for Lib, chopped, then another Axe. Then probably settler, but that will not be me.
Alpha completed, IW started. Of course Khan would not trade with us....
Nice barb town btw...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/99729/barbtown.jpg

Turn 9 865 BC
Axe is whipped for one pop. Move to chop for lib.
Nidaros is built, start a lib.

Turn 10 850 BC
Treazure can whip the lib for one pop. I go for it. Axe sent to Nidaros. Lib started.

Turn 11 835 BC
Treazure starts a granary (not much more to do there). Khan is wandering in our area.

IBT: Great wall is built.

Turn 12 820 BC
Chopping done. Move workers towards Nidaros for horses.

IBT: Great Lighthouse is built. I suspect Ghandi...

Turn 13 805 BC
Start pasture.

Turn 14 790 BC
zzz

Turn 15 775 BC
zzz

Turn 16 760 BC
Move for chopping in Nidaros.

Turn 17 745 BC
zzz

Turn 18 730 BC
Lib finished in ST. Start axeman.

Turn 18 715 BC
A barb archer attack our axe in the jungle... We win.
Treazure cultural borders expand. New gold mines on the way...

Turn 19 700 BC
Switch ST to worker

Turn 20 685 BC
Road for Nidaros. Switch ST to worker. It could be whipped, overflow in axe in 4 turns... or not :D
Axe on heal.


The save

The log

Turn 100, 1000 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Smurkz Town. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 105, 925 BC: Gandhi adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 107, 895 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!

Turn 109, 865 BC: Nidaros has been founded.
Turn 109, 865 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 112, 820 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 117, 745 BC: Treazure's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 118, 730 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Treazure!
Turn 118, 730 BC: The borders of Treazure have expanded!
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Smurkz's Axeman (8.00)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Smurkz's Axeman is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Smurkz's Axeman is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Smurkz's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 118, 730 BC: While defending, your Axeman has killed a Barbarian Archer!

Turn 119, 715 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ? for Nidaros.


Some thoughts
- workers (at least 2 more which would make it 4) seem required (Jungle anyone ?)
- Nidaros is a slowly growing city.
- Ghandi cultural borders will be an issue
- I wandered if gifting Writing to Khan in hope he would trade for Alpha would be good... It puts us in a bad situation, but we are not trading at all, and he should get some relations with Ghandi soon.... Meaning he could trade with him too....
- We should not wait too long to settle the fourth spot, fearing Ghandi's border expand too fast.
- We should explore North. If we are lucky there might be some nice looking barbs :D

By the way exploration is not too kind with us for now. We need to go for Sailing Optics in order to get some trading partners...
To be discussed

Got it, though it won't be until possibly tomorrow before I can look at it. Anybody with the ability to look at it have any suggestions or ideas?

[party] :band: :banana: :high5:

Happy Smurkz Patrick Day!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/Smurkz/SmurkzPatrickDay2.jpg

Whoops, I forgot about this! Thanks for the bump CB and I hope you didn't get too Smurkzed celebrating!

Turn 121 (685 BC)

Turn 122 (670 BC)
Methos: Both workers finish the road and move to Treazure.
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 123 (655 BC)
Research begun: Mathematics

Turn 124 (640 BC)
Methos: A barb warrior appears to our NW.
Smurkz Town finishes: Worker

Turn 125 (625 BC)
Methos: The new worker in Smurkz Town heads south to work on those gems.
Nidaros grows: 2

Turn 126 (610 BC)
Smurkz Town finishes: Axeman

Turn 127 (595 BC)
Smurkz Town begins: Work Boat
Methos: GK adopts Hereditary Rule, so he knows Monarchy.
Methos: The southern worker starts trying to clear the gems. near Nadaros.

Turn 128 (580 BC)
Methos: Someone builds the Temple of Artemis
Treazure finishes: Granary

Turn 129 (565 BC)
Treazure begins: Barracks
Smurkz Town finishes: Work Boat

Turn 130 (550 BC)
Smurkz Town begins: Granary
Methos: The new WB heads north hoping to clear some fog above Gandhi.
Methos: Smurkz Town hires a couple scientist for a GS. It'll take 25 turns to complete.
Methos: Our southwestern WB crosses path with one of Gandhi's tiremen. This doesn't look good.
Methos: Workers complete farm near Treazure. Swap the citizen working the grass mine to the farmed river grass for growth.

Notes:
We want Gandhi's trirmen to continue south and meet GK. Hopefully that'll be enough to have GK start traded his techs off.
I hate researching techs that someone else knows, hence my reason for going towards Math.
I wouldn't give Writing to GK until after he's met Gandhi. Hopefully this loosens him up. If that doesn't work, I'm still not sure giving him Writing will help. As I recall AI's don't trade monopoly techs.
Gandhi has trirmen's, which means we can expect him soon to land forces near us.
The two workers near Treazure should mine another gold hill.


Here's the 550 BC save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC0550_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Turn 122, 670 BC: Both workers finish the road and move to Treazure.
Turn 122, 670 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!

Turn 124, 640 BC: A barb warrior appears to our NW.
Turn 124, 640 BC: You have trained a Worker in Smurkz Town. Work has now begun on a Axeman.

Turn 125, 625 BC: The new worker in Smurkz Town heads south to work on those gems.

Turn 126, 610 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 127, 595 BC: GK adopts Hereditary Rule, so he knows Monarchy.
Turn 127, 595 BC: The southern worker starts trying to clear the gems. near Nadaros.
Turn 127, 595 BC: The Temple of Artemis has been built in a far away land!

Turn 128, 580 BC: Someone builds the Temple of Artemis

Turn 129, 565 BC: St. Paul (Great Prophet) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

Turn 130, 550 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Treazure!
Turn 130, 550 BC: The new WB heads north hoping to clear some fog above Gandhi.
Turn 130, 550 BC: Smurkz Town hires a couple scientist for a GS. It'll take 25 turns to complete.
Turn 130, 550 BC: Our southwestern WB crosses path with one of Gandhi's tiremen. This doesn't look good.
Turn 130, 550 BC: Workers complete farm near Treazure. Swap the citizen working the grass mine to the farmed river grass for growth.


Roster:
Eldar- Up
semolina- On Deck
DeafDolphin
zyxy
unkle
Methos- Just Played

Looking good!

I understand the reasoning for Math, it's cheap, and 50% extra hammers from chops is very helpful. But I would really like to go towards Optics next. MC in particular looks like a good next tech, because we can then start some forges.

I think we should settle two more towns, one at yellow dot on the west coast, and another one up north, near the iron, corn and sheep. I think 1N of iron would be good (lots of grass and riverside tiles). I would build them in the capital, instead of the granary that we don't need yet. This will also prevent the capital from growing into unhappiness. Of course the citizens working the unimproved hills can switch to the clams and lake.

We also need 1-2 more workers (can be trained in the capital), and more troops. And let's connect the horses, for a mobile defense force.

Got it. I'll analyse things this evening.

I won't have time this evening to play, should be okay tomorrow though. Mondays, Mondays, Mondays....

We should at least persevere with Maths until we see if Genghis talking to Gandhi will result in giving us some trades. Maths is usually a decent trading tech.

If not, I'd be inclined to switch to MC->Mach right away.

From the department of short notices:
I'll be away from now until next Sunday. Please skip/swap me as appropriate.

Good luck!

Okay starting to play now, I will:
- Switch the granary to a settler, see if I can pull an escort from somewhere
- Make sure Gandhi and Genghis get it on
- See if I can trade anything from Genghis
- Keep the workers workin'

10 turns from now on?

10 turns done, and nothing too exciting, except that Genghis would finally trade with us :D Writing and Alpha netted us Sailing, Archery, Mysticism, and Masonry. We're up Maths, he's up Meditation (will trade) and HBR (won't trade - suspect it's a monopoly). Maths for Meditation isn't a good deal.

Smurkz Town is 1 turn away from a Settler: Yellow Dot or Iron City (as pictured)? Iron City would get going quicker, and we could assign one of the workers from around Treasurz, or just build another from Smurkz.


User comment: Testing 123
Axeman defeats (3.90/5): Barbarian Archer
Axeman defeats (4.55/5): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 131 (535 BC)
User comment: Gandhi's Trireme ignored our dinky WB?! Okay. The Intrepid WB continues up the coast.
Tech learned: Sailing
User comment: We can trade with Genghis. First up, Writing nets Sailing. No two-fers available. Sailing gets us our UB, plus protection for our fishing nets.

Turn 132 (520 BC)
Tech learned: Mysticism
Tech learned: Archery
Tech learned: Masonry
User comment: ...and Alphabet nets us Mysticism, Archery, and Masonry. Next turn we see what else we're missing.
Treazure grows: 4

Turn 133 (505 BC)
User comment: Genghis is up Meditation on us, and nothing else.

Turn 134 (490 BC)

Turn 135 (475 BC)

Turn 136 (460 BC)
Treazure finishes: Barracks
Nidaros finishes: Library
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 137 (445 BC)
Treazure begins: Axeman
Nidaros begins: Trading Post
User comment: I've kicked off a Trading Post in Nidaros. It can become our primary Naval base.

Turn 138 (430 BC)
Tech learned: Mathematics

Turn 139 (415 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting
User comment: Start research on MC. Genghis has HBR, but obviously Gandhi doesn't, it's not available. Maths for Meditation ain't a good trade in my book. Poly might be though?

Turn 140 (400 BC)


>> The Save << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Smurkz_SG004_BC0400_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Nothing much new to show, except our WBs are slowly circling the continent and should have the shoreline mapped out next set.

I will be unable to play my turn this time around. Please skip. thanks.

I will be unable to play my turn this time around. Please skip. thanks.

You're currently not up, semolina is, if that makes a difference. If you still need a skip, no problem.

Roster:
semolina- Up
DeafDolphin- On Deck
zyxy
unkle
Methos
Eldar- Just Played

@Methos:
remember zyxy is on skip, and I will not be available until friday.

@Eldar:
good going on the trade !! Don't have time for looking at the save. I wonder if Iron city should be settle on the coast (if possible) or not.