2. open game:easy immortal space-race (easy = great starting position) [Archive]

Snaaty

Mar 01, 2007, 10:07 AM

I just finished my first session (up to 300something BC), will continue tomorrow

So far, things went as planned... ...I moved my capital a little inland (didn´t take an ideal route, so I lost 4 turns I think... ...but settled with 2 gold in BFC... ...researched archery very early... used archers/warrior combo as fog buster... ...decided to grow capital to size 5, then started to settler-spam... in parallel reseached writing-math to take advantage of the many forrests (chop,chop)... ...claimed 2 more gold with 2nd and 4th city (one each), 3rd city was only for blocking... ...5 city went for the stons (pyramids in progress, think I can whipp/chopp them soon... ...6 city went for copper... ...I´m building some axmen right now to take a barb city (and to frighten off monty a little longer)... ...in capital I´m chopping/building the GL (at least I try and hope)... ...research is a little crappy right now (50%), because I built 6 cities (and zero cottages)... ...but CoL will be through soon

Edit:

@ Lilnev:

That´s bad luck (I think I gifted monty 2 techs and fullfilled one demand for resources already to keep him lucky). When you gift techs very early, the chaces are very high, that somone like monty goes for somebody else (he ALWAYS will go for somebody...)

@ Giaur:

sounds great

mrchadt

Mar 01, 2007, 10:18 AM

Well, I tried the original save that others said was no good, I played to 940AD and someone else had discovered liberalism. That was my first try on immortal. This is my second, have a look and see what you think, not bad for a noob imo. I haven't used spoiler tags before so I hope they work ok.

edit: I got beaten up by barbarians in my first immortal try on previous game so I decided to build the great wall. I ended up building the great wall, stonehenge and the pyramids all in my capital. this churned out 4, I think, great engineers, I built the pyramids with the first. The great library, in my second city and the great lighthouse in my capital. And later iron works. I cannot remember the date I got liberalism, but it was arouund 800AD, maybe.
My empire was too small for a while but science is good. Not much of an army, I can't think why monty never attacked me, he is everyones friend in my game lol. But I attacked him later after bribing Ghengis to attack him (or the other way round), was expensive though, nationalism+something else good.
149006
149008

Here are my saves.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110529/Snaaty_AD-0001.CivWarlordsSave

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110529/Snaaty_AD-1000.CivWarlordsSave

Edit: I have written some infomation in the spoiler tag now.

mrchadt

Mar 01, 2007, 10:27 AM

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 10:33 AM

Hi mutineer, or anyone else who knows, how do you show your screen shots full size? I did an attachment and it came as a thumbnail.

Perhaps it can't be hidden inside the spoiler ... or maybe write some empty lines, or at least a comment to the picture.

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 11:07 AM

Mutineer: interesting opening for a SpaceRace :cool:

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 11:22 AM

mrchdt: Am I reading right? You rushed Ironworks? What year are you playing now?

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 01:35 PM

Built Colossus, Angkor Wat and Un.of Sankore. Built small army, which will become more powerful in few turns. However G.Khan grabbed Military Tradition too. I am heading for Monti first, I think. Then Peter. G.Khan will be destroyed with rifles. My mistake, I have not effort for Great Merchant in the right time. But nothing is lost yet.

mrchadt

Mar 01, 2007, 01:52 PM

Yes you are reading right, I was at war at the time and needed production. As I said second try at immortal if this seems like a terrible move. I'm in 1500 something.

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 02:04 PM

running for buddism, so started producing settler first ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap001.jpg

hinduism spreadto Bombay very quickly ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap002.jpg

Madras was found far from the capital ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap005.jpg

Stonehenge compieted. Rostov in trouble ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap009.jpg

look on the capital ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap010.jpg

fighting for the tiles ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap013.jpg

The fight is won. Newborn scientist will lightbulb Education.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap014.jpg

our forces came too late ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap019.jpg

global look on my kingdom ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap023.jpg

economics advanced. GM is on his way ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap025.jpg

Peter became friendly after loosing Rostov. This deal has to tell Peter that Merchiantilism is a bad civic. Fortunately he hasn't adopted it yet.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap028.jpg

Giaur

Mar 01, 2007, 02:09 PM

Yes you are reading right, I was at war at the time and needed production. As I said second try at immortal if this seems like a terrible move. I'm in 1500 something.

If you survived till now, you have chances to complete Apollo Program :)

Winston Hughes

Mar 01, 2007, 05:45 PM

I found the previous thread most educational, and, since I've got a couple of days off (at last :D ), I figured I'd give this one a go. :)

I've never tried immortal before, and I struggle to win emperor unless I get a strong start and good neighbours (and I'm hopeless at the space race), so this was always going to be a steep learning curve. As it turned out, I ended up having to cheat both to stay in the game, and to avoid losing my mind entirely...

I headed inland to start, following some advice I read in one of Snaaty's earlier threads, hoping to make some space for later cities. Finding gold and floodplains was a huge relief; having abandoned an awesome starting spot for the first time in my cIV career, I half expected to find nothing but featureless deserts.

My second city took the original spot, and I chopped the Great Wall there for its first build, the plan being to grab the Pyramids with the resulting GE. However, thanks to a couple of horribly :smoke: moves (especially researching Writing before MC), the Pyramids were built on the same turn as I got the GE :cry: .

I played on for a few turns, but it was clear that without Representation I was going to be Monty-food before I even reached the mid-game; I hadn't built a single cottage, and with only three cities (and no way to get any more without going to war), my economy was laughable, as was my military.

So, and because I'd only just missed out, I went back to my oldest autosave (about fifteen turns earlier), to see if I could get my forge built one turn quicker. I tried everything. I must have restarted from that same save twenty times or more, micromanaging every detail with the aid of a calculator, but there was simply no way to speed up MC and the forge. :mad:

In the end, I went into the worldbuilder and gave myself enough gold (150 iirc) to run the slider up a notch or two and nail MC in time. My economy is now ticking over nicely, and I've managed to trade myself into a position where I can at least put up a fight. I still haven't a hope of winning the game, but hopefully I can survive to see how things play out.

Or, on the other hand, maybe I'll just cheat a little more... :trophy: :rolleyes:

lilnev

Mar 01, 2007, 06:14 PM

At Winston Hughes:
When I try the GW-GE-Pyramids gambit, I take a chance on running a scientist for a few turns. Because of the way great people probabilities are generated, 1 gpp from the GW counts as much as 3 from a specialist when it comes time to determine which GP you get. So 29 turns of the Great Wall (58 gpps) + 7 turns of a scientist (42 gpps) still gives 29/36 chance ~80% of a GE. Sure, once in a while you're "cursed" with a GS, but you can direct your research elsewhere (Alphabet-Lit for example) instead of slogging through MC.

peace,
lilnev

Mutineer

Mar 01, 2007, 06:25 PM

Hi mutineer, or anyone else who knows, how do you show your screen shots full size? I did an attachment and it came as a thumbnail.

Edit: I want to copy the way mutineer has done his post, see previous page. His pictures were very clear too.

Insted of using attachments, upload you file using upward red button, most right one.
Then use [I M G] tag (remove spaces) or easier use insert immage button, one with mountan picture.

Mutineer

Mar 01, 2007, 06:37 PM

Mutineer: interesting opening for a SpaceRace :cool:

I do not know. if you like to build ship with Mounty running around....

I prefur to have my neaybors pacifyed. Thougth there still mongols and I am a bit spread around. On other hand I never play for space race, but I think one can never go wrong with more space relativelly early.

Winston Hughes

Mar 01, 2007, 06:39 PM

lilnev: Thanks, that's a very good point (although with my luck I'd probably have landed a GS and missed out on the Pyramids anyway).

Galileo44

Mar 01, 2007, 07:08 PM

I am doing well ca 600AD, will give an update later.

PS. Am I the only one who didn't do SE with the Pyramids? I just ignored them and did a cottage spam.

Mutineer

Mar 01, 2007, 07:16 PM

well, I did not build single cottage untill 1000 AD and did not build piramids, does it count? ;)

jamuraa

Mar 01, 2007, 08:05 PM

Well, I went ahead and gave it a try. Behold my horribleness at Immortal difficulty (I'm at prince/monarch in "normal" games). It's also one of my first warlord games (just got it the other day) so double-whammy on that one. :rolleyes:

1AD:
I had some issues with barbarians and ooh shiny so I built the Great Wall with some chops from the capitol. Moved one E for settling so I could improve the stone. I only got 3 cities out before monty took a barb city and settled on my borders. Popped a GE for Metal Casting. Mostly went CE with just cottage spam where I could work the tiles. Missed 1AD by a turn for the save. Second city was placed for CE craziness, 4 FP + 2 gold in BFC. Madras placed to grab copper.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/109128/SnaatyImmortal-1AD-smsm.jpg

To 1000AD:
Declared on Monty in 50AD when I had 7 or so axes, a couple turns earlier than expected because there was a poachable settler on the border. Took Assyrian easily but had issues with Texcoco (I suspect it would have been easier with horses). Monty got Feudalism and was fielding horse archers against my axes so I gave up CoL for peace in 475AD. :cry: From then on it has been grow to happy and research. Switched to Buddhism in order to counteract the war negatives with monty and because I had good enough relations with Peter, who is Hindu. The happiness bonuses aren't bad either.
I'm a few turns away from CS right now, Liberalism was discovered distantly at 1000AD exactly.

Research path:
Fishing, Masonry, BW, Agr, Wheel, Animal Husbandry, Sailing, Pottery, Writing, Hunting (to hook furs), Alphabet
I could have done much better on this, my worker was sitting around for many turns waiting and wheel came WAY too late.

I don't think I have much of a chance of actually getting to the space race. I'm sure that someone will get mad enough at me to attack (possibly Monty, he's running away with the game ATM) and I'll be done for. I'm so far behind in power it's laughable.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/109128/SnaatyImmortal-1000AD-smsm.JPG

Still tons of fun though. :D

Savegames:
25AD: http://jamuraa.com/civ4/Snaaty-SpRaceImmortal%20AD-0025.CivWarlordsSave
1000AD: http://jamuraa.com/civ4/Snaaty%20AD-1000.CivWarlordsSave

Winston Hughes

Mar 01, 2007, 10:32 PM

I continued my post-cheating game, and things are going surprisingly well...

I've still only got three cities in 700ad, but have just won the Liberalism race (easily; none of the other civs even had Education), and traded my way into a two-tech lead over everyone else (though I still don't have Archery :lol: ). It seems that gold mines, Pyramids, Rep/Caste/Pacifism, and a hell of a lot of food is a remarkably effective combination for a small empire, if you can keep the AI off your back.

At one point Monty was looking very threatening, being the tech leader and the most powerful civ, so I bribed him to attack Peter. To my amazement, the Russians have actually had the better of it, and have done some serious damage to the Aztec economy with their pillaging. I was worried that Monty would quickly beat the Russians down and sue for peace on favourable terms, before turning his attentions to my poorly defended empire. But, as it turns out, they've been at war for ages (I'm guessing it's because Monty really doesn't like giving up until he's clearly won or lost), and I've now bribed Genghis to join Peter against the Aztecs. The best part of it is that the three of them are now much less friendly with each other, whilst I've become everyone's best friend. :mwaha:

I've sailed over to the other continent, and they seem pretty weak (although I've yet to meet the 7th civ). And, with three well-developed Aztec cities just over my southern border, if I can take advantage of Monty's present troubles and stab him firmly in the back with a couple of rush-built mace/treb stacks, I might just have a chance at coming into the late-game in a respectable state.

ps. I haven't done any more cheating, even when I missed out on the GL by one turn. :wallbash:

Giaur

Mar 02, 2007, 01:11 AM

I am doing well ca 600AD, will give an update later.

PS. Am I the only one who didn't do SE with the Pyramids? I just ignored them and did a cottage spam.

I have Pyramids and I am running mainly CE :cool:

Mutineer: My Monty will be running around only for several turns.

Snaaty

Mar 02, 2007, 02:12 AM

I also played one more session... ...but my game processes quite strange:

I played in one go from 300something BC to 1300something AD... ...Monty never went to war in my game... ...he also was best friend with everybody... ...and Monty turned into THE superpower... ...he even was a heavy rival for lib, because he had education only 3 turns after me (like 600something AD)!!!

...

So I made 3 decisions:

1. I would try to live in peace and harmony with this lovely Monty forever

2. I will try to play this game without a war

3. I wont build any troops (except the forgbusters from old: 3 warriors and 4 archers; and the remaining 4 axmen that survived after I took a barb city)

Well, I failed a little and have forgotten to save at 1 AD… ….very likely because it was so short after I began my second session at 350 BC… …so this screenshot shows my empire at 350 BC:

pic removed

I moved my capital like Winston Huges. I but I didn’t go as far as the river, I stopped with the pigs and the first gold in sight (but I popped a second gold after settling).

With 2 gold, pigs and 2 floodplains in reach of my capital, I decided to build only a worker. Then I built some warriors and archers for fogbusting and grew my capital to size 5. My research was:

Everything to improve and work the land, then writing-math, later on to lit. I choose this path, because I wanted to profit most from the many forests. Therefore I chopped what I could after math was in and went settler spamming. I settled in this order:

Bombey (blocking city and gold)
Madras (blocking city)
Bangalore (gold and horses)
Kalkutta (stones)
Lahore (bronze)

At this point, I had 4 goldmines and therefore could support a quite large early empire without CoL. I just started to build barracks and axes, because west of Bombey is a barb city I wanted to capture before Monty.

The Pyramids were started in Kalkutta some turns ago (only 4 or 5) and the GL in Delhi (this turn I think.

…

It’s amazing how fast the game plays when you don’t go to war. So I almost also forgot to save 1000 AD (but I remembered 1020 AD). Must have been because I played on up to 1300something with this session. I won the lib race shortly before 700 AD (with Monty very close) and am now researching towards Astro.

I only settled one more city (Karachi up north) to claim the fur. Since the barb city was taken long ago, my empire now contains of 8 cities. I managed to get both, the Pyramids and the GL (thanks to chopping)

I was in a very lousy position to tech trade, because Peter was in a war with Dschingis for about 3000 years, before he finally vassalized to Monty. So both (Peter and Dschingis) were extremely backwards in tech while Monty started to run away. I only managed to do 2 lousy techtrades:

Ironworking and calendar

pic removed

There was a short period of danger, because Monty turned to angry and closed borders, but after I gifted him phil, he was cautious again. When some turns later his rel (Buddhism) spread to one of my cities, I was very eager in adopting it…

…

Right now I’m quite save, because Monty is pleased and I bribed him in a war with Dschingis (but I fear Dschingis won’t last too long)

...

BTW, I didn´t build a single cottage and don´t plan to build one...

Dirk1302

Mar 02, 2007, 06:34 AM

Things are going fine sofar in my game, chopped pyramids but didn't build any other wonder so as not to pollute the gp pool. got a GE with which i built GL. Got liberalism round 1000 and chose astro for it. A gamble but my empire is kind of expensive and i really need this tech. Monty and Ghenghis are my hinduist friends and all three of us are at war with judaist Peter. Bribed Monty todo so. Ghenghis hates Peter so much that he joined without having to ask (it's his second war against Peter) . Met Hatsy who is annoyed with me and my 2 friends but willing to trade and open borders. Caravel is on it's way to meet others. Tech wise i have education, astro and lib on the others and 2 scientists ready to light pp. They have all have guilds on me and some probably banking.
I'm thinking of trading astro instead of education to clinch the economics race still not sure about this. At this moment i have 8 good cities, lots of farms and not a single cottage, really looking forward to biology.

Giaur

Mar 02, 2007, 09:58 AM

After 1000AD things went not as I predicted. I brought to few troops to anihilate Monty. War lasted long (and still lasts). I had a stupid idea to adopt Free Religion, just to grab some Brenus gold. Turn later Monty agreed to be a vassal of Peter and now I have two opponents. Peter has Cossacs. My best unit is Cav. Fortunately he brought only two cossacs till now. Adopted Police State. I am waiting for the fastest possibility to end this war. Only my wish is take one more Monty's city. Peter grew to superpower in research. My research became pathetic after Police State, ww, and upkeep. I am looking forward for rifles, but I am afraid I will lose tech race. G.Khan is pleased with me, but doesnot want to trade with me. I am in trouble. The only way to escape this show is to anihilate the entire continent. But it's a long way.

Snaaty

Mar 02, 2007, 10:48 AM

@ all:

Seems like not 2 games play out the same this time (concerning strat used and development of other civs)

Well, in some games it seems that things are getting pretty ruff in midgame... ...all players better be prepared for that, this is immortal... ...some civs (mainly Russia, in my games in the past it was always Russia:mad:) are extremely dangerous because the develop incredible fast... ...in a deity I played (and lost) for exemple, they had lib BEFORE 400 AD

...

My post lib plan for this game:

Well, I´m standing actually at 1300something... ...I have enough cities (8) with decent production and research to compete in space race, as long as I can slow the others down with war... ...here comes Monty into my picture: I plan to use Monty as my war machine... ...I will give him tech, money, basicly everything he needs and wants... ...so in generall, there wont be any turn from now on, where Monty isn´t in a war with somebody when things go as intended and I can cruise to a save and sound space race

EDIT:

Please remember that this round will close on Saturday. If you want your saves to be included into my first summary, you have to submit them today (but everybody feel free to join in later)

Mutineer

Mar 02, 2007, 11:08 AM

Well, played a bit more. Thinks going slow.

Well, about 1060AD Mongols desided they want some of what I got from Mounty and declare befor I finish him.

That forced me to make peace with Mounty and spend my trade mission gold on Upgrades. :( darn, slow me down a lot. He drop 2 big stack. I hold one of them, but second took and raise most south ex Mounty city.

The moment I got Education I bribed Peter to declare on Mounty.
wend gunpoweder-chemistry
Finally stabilise front, took ex babarian north city and the took one of his and new city he build on place of raised one.
Peter got lib somewhere there.

Peter make peace, I do not have that many trops. So, I raise one mor eof his cities to make space and made peace.
I still did not meat anyone form other continent, thought map from Peter I knwo where it is.

Her is save 1400AD
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-1400.CivWarlordsSave

Giaur

Mar 02, 2007, 12:02 PM

Thinks ended happily for me. I can no match with Peter in tech yet. He has Constitution, Scientific Method and possibly Physics. However he send only 2 cossacks towords me. Then I finally understood, then he has no horses. Monti lost few more cities. I lost one too, but it was retaken back. And I grabbed riffling first (after Khan only). And send half of my forces to capture Novogorod. This city was very important, cause inside of it was built GL, ND and Versallities. After capturing this city made peace with Peter. And unbeliveble ... he was friendly towards me. I took my chances and exchanged Rifling for Chemistry. I am not gonna make him my enemy now. I suppose he will adopt one day free religion, but now I am happy there is someone who wants to trade with me. There are some certain sets of leaders which determine that you cannot win easily. This game is close to that picture. I own half of the continent. Now it's time to improve the economy

BTW. Can you tell me if Novogorod is influenced by culture from Moscow? I do not know if to adopt Free Speech.

Giaur

Mar 02, 2007, 12:11 PM

btw. knowing the personalities very helps on this level.

ungy

Mar 02, 2007, 12:13 PM

Snaaty AD-1000

ungy

Mar 02, 2007, 12:22 PM

Went for hindu and got it--Monte Bud.

Built 4 cities and started pumping out units to go after Monte but waited for cats and was too late--Genghis and Monte attacked Peter and by the time I was in Peter caps to Genghis.
Am in the lib race but look to lose it. Took about half of Monte inc Ten. Cottage spamming. Not quite sure how I bring this home but seems like good play. Not down too much tech but Brennus has big score lead.

Dirk1302

Mar 02, 2007, 02:38 PM

Here are the saves.

Galileo44

Mar 02, 2007, 03:08 PM

My submission for this game:

I am doing a lot better than I thought on Immortal. Like Snaaty, I moved inland and founded Delhi a little farther in, grabbing 2 gold, 4 floodplains, and a cow. Research ignored religion, going for worker techs of Agriculture and AH first. Second city claimed the origional starting spot for a GPFarm, 3rd got gold and floodplains, while the fourth went in the north for copper, wheat, and another gold! For my last two, one was captured from barbs and one was founded late as a secondary production city. After getting Ag and AH I found that hinduism wasn't founded yet, what the heck, lets pray. I landed hinduism as my third tech was Polytheism. I built stonehenge in Delhi and my research was very strong early due to the lots of gold.

Then, I consolidated, cottaging some places and going for the GL and landing it around 1AD in Bombay(GP Farm). Then I headed up the Liberalism path quickly, lightbulbing Philo and Education while building Academies in Delhi and Bangalore. I reached 1 turn left on Lib with a lot of time to spare. I headed back, and picked up compass, machinery, optics, and calender before going Liberalism --> Astronomy in 800AD. I then quickly got some ships out to the other continent and met Hatty, then Wang, then Brennus. I have been in last place almost the entire game, including now. However I am the clear tech leader. I have Liberalism and Astronomy on everyone, and Nationalism on everyone but Hatty. On the turn of 1000AD, I traded around Education and some other backward techs (calender:eek:, optics) to get some gold and get Monty to declare on Khan, and Hatty on Brennus. I am pleased with almost everyone, and unlikely to be attacked despite my pitifull army because everyone has someone they hate more. (I am im Free Religion) I have not been at war the entire game! Printing Press in 2, then I will go for Constitution and Democracy and continue up the tree. I think that without getting crushed by an AI, I should do fine in the Space Race despite my small territory. Perhaps I should attack Monty later with a tech advantage, maybe with cannons.

1000AD:
My empire, north, then south:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/northempire0000.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/SouthEmpire0000.jpg

lilnev

Mar 02, 2007, 03:32 PM

I got to thinking about it yesterday, and realized I'd done some things tactically wrong in defending myself against Monty (trying to get barracks up instead of raw numbers of troops, fighting in the field instead of turtling up and hoping he wastes time pillaging). I went back to the autosave from the turn he declared and managed to hold all my cities, though he pillaged me pretty savagely for 600 years or so. And I'm still in too-small a spot and without metal. But anyway, I'm going to play it out even if my entry comes with an asterisk for the reload. Fuller update and saves tomorrow.

peace,
lilnev

Winston Hughes

Mar 02, 2007, 08:11 PM

Despite a few dumb moves, the war against Monty went as well as I could have hoped. I grabbed the three cities without too many casualties, and I've managed to keep up with the leaders in the tech race (Russia and the Mongols). The Aztecs have crashed from top dog to whipping boy, so that Peter and Genghis are now the powers on our continent (and Genghis is still at war with Monty). The previously unmet civ turned out to be Brennus, who is the score leader, and has the largest empire by some distance, but is at least 4-5 techs off the pace at the moment.

Getting Optics early, and meeting the other continent before my neighbours, proved to be a major bonus, allowing me to avoid WFYABTA and to play the lucrative role of middleman in the intercontinental tech trade. I've also sold a hell of a lot of techs for cash, to run the slider up full for most of the game, and to upgrade my troops to give Monty a beating. Oh, and I still don't have Archery. I would've benefitted from a couple of longbows in the war, but the 1 turn of research I've saved has been the secret to my success. :rolleyes:

I've now switched back to peacetime civics (Rep/Bur/Caste/Merc/Pacifism), and once again I'm running loads of specialists (including Artists to expand my southern borders - this is where the Pyramids really come into their own, imo, ensuring that you can keep the beakers coming whilst running lots of non-scientist specialists). However, I've also been cottaging every unused tile, and all the tiles around my newly captured cities, with a view to making the switch to a CE as time goes on.

The main question I now have to ask myself is whether (or when) to invade Peter. If I can take his two northern cities, I'll have a strong empire and two severely weakened neighbours providing a buffer between me and the increasingly powerful Mongols. However, going to war again will stagnate my economy once more, letting Brennus catch up, and perhaps allowing Genghis to develop a major lead. :hmm:

btw, I haven't done any more serious cheating, although I did reload on two occasions (iirc) to correct minor oversights (moving a cat to a roadless tile; forgetting to change to merc when switching civics). :jesus:

Giaur

Mar 03, 2007, 02:38 AM

It's Saturday. It's time to close the first round.

druidravi

Mar 03, 2007, 06:58 AM

Well I played till 1000ad . Here are the saces at 50ad and 100ad. I don't know how to use spoiler tags. I would post screen shots and summary, if anyone tells how to do it

Mutineer

Mar 03, 2007, 07:41 AM

[s p o i l e r]
[/s p o i l e r]

remove spaces

druidravi

Mar 03, 2007, 07:44 AM

Thanks Muitneer.

I built in place and didn't go for relegion. Chopped pyramids with stone , Great Wall was built way too early this game just in time as I researched masonary:crazyeye: . Had a 90% chance of engineer for my first gp and got scientist, great. Then went for literature for Great Library and got a scientist again great just finished great Library then finally got my enginner who built national epic immediately.
Monty found buddhism which was the only relegion till I lightbulbed Pacifism finding Tao. Adopted it and pacifism for 5 turns and Monty cancels open borders . Barbarians found 3 cities. I built only 2 cities. Captured 1 city from barbarian losing 2 axe and another hill barbarian city losing 3 axes. Went for 3rd baba city with big army and Peter beat me to it by 1 turn and I had only a 9exp axe so far so no heroic epic.Then massed axes for war against Monty, but got jittery this being my first Immortal try. I was afraid of monty attack followed by a dogpile by genghis. Fortunately one of my barbarian city ( It was placed on a gold hill :lol: ) I captured got buddhism so adopted it and whipped quickly monastry and missionary and spread to my capital which had national epic+ Great Library and was my gp farm with pacifism and caste systtem .Had 116 gp/turn coming, needless to say I had no gp from any other city.

I suddenly noticed that one of my captured baba city was surrounded by 3 new monty cities, 1 old monty and 1 new peter city. So raced away to Music and had a extremely nice culture bomb which gave me horses and iron and gave -4 from monty for our close borders spark tension:mischief: . Soon everyone became pleased with each other due to same relegion and at the end of game I have friendly with Gengis and Peter and Pleased from Monty, no war at all.So no WFYBTA with gengis/peter. However there were 2 great generals born in other continent. I built heroic epic eventually when a 3 baba archer stack fortified itself on a forested hill for a long long time. The Ai sacced HA's on it enabling me to have a 99% combat odds with my 9exp axe on the last archer.

Right now I 'm in golden age due to my second engineer (who was produced when I was reserching liberalism) building Taj exactly timing it with research of military tradition. I'm up Liberalism/Printing press /Natinalism/ Military tradition on all civ's. Monty and Genghis are only up banking on me..I built caravels very late however whipped them in 2 cities and heading them in opp directions. No one has met other civ's as I could see from World Map. The other coninent is pretty behind in tech as some idiot told me I was 1 in reasearch followed by 3ai's on continent and then 3 unmet civ's.So I think I can get circumnavigatiuon as well.

Military wise my Heroic epic city with golden age is producing 5exp cavalry per turn and I'm whipping them in other cities. I used 1 ge on national Epic,Tajmahal. I gs on academy/Education,/Printing press /chemistry. I still hace 2/3 gs remaining in capital for astronomy/scientific method route. I am 2/3 turns away from chemistry, then would research that cannon/Iron works enabling tech and will hopefully take over whole continent with cavs,grens, cannons and hopefully have a peaceful spaceship.

Mutineer

Mar 03, 2007, 07:45 AM

no problem

druidravi

Mar 03, 2007, 07:54 AM

The three baba cities/
Culture Bomb/
Gp factory capital/

Current position/
Heroic epic city

lilnev

Mar 03, 2007, 10:19 AM

Settle in place. First hut popped the Wheel. Wow, no kidding this is a nice map. Food, Gold, more food, more Gold, flood plains, more Gold....

Seafood starts without Fishing are always tricky, and I never know if I'm doing them right. Worker-warrior-settler is so often so good, but here we don't have the worker techs for our best tiles. The Fish is actually the best tile, followed by Sheep, then Crabs and Clams, then mined hills. But AH is too far. So: research Fishing-(popped the Wheel)-BW-Masonry-Ag-AH. Build warrior-workboat-worker-workboat-Great Wall-settler.

Yes, you read that right, a Wonder before the first settler. Why? I didn't feel any pressure to get my second and third cities founded in a particular hurry -- Peter wandered up from the south, but he's not close, and there's no shortage of good spots -- so I built vertically on to good tiles. The GW will let me build in peace, including postponing the Copper city. It's cheap with Stone, fast workers are efficient choppers (3 forests spent, still plently for the GL), and I could funnel some whip-overflow into it. And most importantly, I want to try the GW-GE-Pyramids gambit. Here's my capital at its completion:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi010001.JPG

Settled Bombay 3E of Horses. Not sure this is correct (2E maybe? That has a lot of overlap with the planned Clam-Wheat and Cow-Gold cities. Here, I'm afraid I'll lose a flood plain, but I gain a hill). But it's reasonable, and I was being harassed by a barb archer, so I did it. Research Writing, build a library in Delhi. Part of the GW gambit is running scientists for a few turns for the gpps. Yes, it's a risk that you get a GS instead of a GE. That's why they call it a gambit.

1680 BC, Ghengis declares on Peter. Fine by me, have at it. Third city founded to wall off the south:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi020000.JPG

The barbs have built a city of their own that occludes my natural spot (Cows + double Gold), but it's fine for now as a blocking city.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi030000.JPG

The key to this gambit, at least the way I do it, is to use a few turns of scientists to push your gpp total. 29 turns of GW + 7 turns of a scientist = 100 gpp, but >80% chance of a GE....

... and it worked. Pyramids in Delhi in 1080 BC. Switch to Representation.

The barbs have built another city, claiming the Copper. Guess I should have posted a fogbuster, eh? Industrious buggers. I settle the Clam-Wheat site I've reserved. Tech to Alphabet in 800 BC, trade for IW and Math. Nope, the only Iron is just inside Monty's borders. Literature, and hope.

Monty declares on me in 600 BC. So much for hope. I (mis)play a couple of turns, hoping to fight him off proactively, and the Horse city falls. I write a despondant post conceding defeat.

...

Thinking about it over the course of the day, I think I misplayed the defense. Trying to whip up a barracks first instead of maximum units, fighting in the field instead of giving him the opportunity to waste turns pillaging.... I go back to the autosave when he DoWs me, and replay from there. Yes, this game will go down in the annals of civ with an asterisk next to it. I'm not setting any records anyway, and I want to see if I could have fought him off, and stayed competetive.

Pick up Hunting and Archery, whip like a fiend. With just a few more defenders, my cities hold. He pillages me savagely, however, almost to the gates of Delhi. Peter has spare Iron, but won't trade it to me even for Stone + 3 health resources. Bastard. No one will join the war on my side, either. My workers retreat from the front and chop out the Great Library in Delhi (I spawned a 33% GS, which became an Academy). Maybe I should have chopped out a whole bunch of archers and tried to fight with them, but.... no. Archers vs jaguars on open ground is not a good idea. Another GS is settled, as Philo is still a long ways off.

Construction finally comes in, and I whip out a couple of catapults. Also, Construction allows me to bribe Peter into the war. Finally, in 1 AD, Monty is willing to talk to me, and I give him Alphabet for peace. My tiles are wrecked, and I'm down to 2 workers (sacced one tactically, to divert a dangerous unit). But I didn't lose any cities, and I've got the Pyramids and the GL to claw my way back, plus Catapults for revenge.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/barbs0000.JPG

The barbs are really something on Immortal, eh? Looks like I need more catapults. 10 turns to Civil Service.

I pick up Monarchy, Calendar, and Currency in trade for CoL, Construction, Lit, and Drama. I put a GE to sleep (hoping for a GS now for Philo. Peter beats me to Taoism).

600 AD. I get the GS for Philo, and I've got a monopoly on CS. Monty declares on me again, so I trade CS + Philo to Ghenghis for Feudalism + war on my side. I trade Horse+Stone+Fur+Crab to Peter for Iron. Hurray, metal! Build spearmen. Monty seems to have a horse fetish.

He pillages, I kill his guys. He has a lot more guys, of course. But a few turns later I bribe Peter into the war, too. That should start to hurt. Trade with Peter is cut off, so it's back to longbows and catapults.

1000 AD. The tide is slowly starting to turn. I've razed one city and am about to capture one. Liberalism is still 5 turns out. I have no idea how advanced the other continent is, but this one is very backwards -- I still have a monopoly on Paper, and I've just started to see Pikes. Monty is still the most powerful, but with a three front war. If I win Liberalism, I'll take Nationalism and head for cavalry.

With no metal and two defensive wars, it's been tough, and I'm sure my position is far behind where others will be. But Monty is slowly yielding, and everyone here is so backwards that cavalry should clean up the place. I think a space win (well, one reload) is still in order.

peace,
lilnev

shyuhe

Mar 03, 2007, 10:36 AM

I died from an early Monty attack the first time around (more or less the same as lilnev's situation - DOW around 1000BC or so and I didn't have metal). I restarted and played some gambits. Buddhism first, then fishing-masonry-bronzeworking. I basically alternate between boats/GW and worker whips at size 4 (plus a settler thrown in there). I get the GW, then head for writing. I chop out the oracle in my second city for COL. I pop a GE from the GW+library combo and rush the pyramids. I continue to settle a few more cities but Peter and Monty are close to my borders. I rush some settlers to block them from going north but MOnty eventually grabs a barb city on the east coast.

Some wars start to brew as Monty attacks Peter (Peter got one of my bad religions and Monty doesn't like heathens :D). Genghis joins in the fun ~10 turns later but Peter manages to hold them off. After the dust clears, I have engineering and construction (I should have gone straight for liberalism in hindsight but I wanted to attack Monty with a dogpile to grab some more cities - he's growing too strong and he's too unpredictable). I declare on Monty earning a -1 from both Khan and Peter (who is still pleased after being attacked!) but I bribe the other two into a dogpile. I've taken two of Monty's cities, but I need a lot more troops to take any more cities. I've been running caste system/representation ever since I've gotten the pyramids so my production is very slow. But my research is pretty good. Delhi (original spot) is running almost 200 beakers.

Unfortunately, I ended up with a lot of GE points in Delhi until the scientists got running so I got two more GE's (slowed down liberalism a lot - couldn't even bulb education!). I rushed GL and University of Sankore (ya I know. No state religion adopted... I need to convert Peter before I can adopt a state religion).

LIberalism is a few turns out but Hatty has shown up at my shores with education but no philosophy. Liberalism is in 3 for me though so I should be safe. I will probably trade around to get optics so that I can take astronomy and setup oversea trades.

Snaaty

Mar 03, 2007, 11:07 AM

@ All:

So I close the first round now.

...

You can submit now saves up to 1700 AD (next check point). Please dont forget to add another save around 1500 AD.

I will do the writeups of this round ASAP (but I have to do it in a more general way compared to first game, because we have so much saves in:goodjob:)

...

Next round will close on Monday

Snaaty

Mar 03, 2007, 11:35 AM

Well, we have saves in from:

Giaur
shyuhe
Dirk
Galileo
druidravi
Mutineer
lilnev
mrchadt
Winston Hughes
jamuraa
ungy
Snaaty (me)

Thanks for participating everybody

...

The start in this game proved to be extremely good. Not only did we have stones and fur, we also had lots of gold and floodplains inland.

There was also quite a lot of space to expand, so some players have managed to build up to 8 cities for themselves.

Concerning the starting place, there had been two preferences:
Settling in place (or one tile north/est/south/west) or moving inland for about 4 turns. Both starting moves had their goodies, because settling in place almost garantied to get the pyramids and/or the GW. Moving inland was great for the early research, because it revealed some gold.

The best way to tech up extremely fast (think it was Giaur who had lib the earliest, around 400 AD) was to build only about 4 cities and to concentrate on generating GS.

Another interesting move was, to build the GW and to use some GE to build the Pyramids, GL and some more wonders (I found this move extremely good, bad luck I haven´t concidered this myself)

Some players started o beat upon Monty quite early, to be rid of a possible threat. Some even had bad luck and were attacked.

...

Some tips from my side for playing agressive AI´s:

When starting near an AI like Monty, your first moves are essential. When you get alpha around 1000 BC, gift him a tech ASAP. Don´t accept any religion other then Monty´s. In fact, Monty isn´t a bad neighbour when doing so (like most other agressive AI´s), because they are extremely preditable:
When the are pleased or friendly with you and have another civ they hate, they will go for 99% for the other civ. You can even take advantage out of this, like I did in my game:
I never built any units, I used Monty to clear my whole continent (he vassalized all others) and I helped him with tech and resource-gifts.
Next step is to sent him over to bring war to the other conti, and to cruise to a save and sound space-race victory without building any units and doing a single war...

...

Some general tips:

Always try to get 6 cities before Lib. You can do so via building them or via war, but getting 6 cities is crucial, because on higher levels, you need to build the Globe to draft units to produce your army fast enough.

Use diplo... ...use it alot. Only when you are in control of the actual diplo situation, you are in control of the game (=you should decide from 1000 AD on, who attacks whom at what time). Like that you stand a chance in most higher level games. Therefore it´s very good to have some agressive AI´s arround, because they are influcenced the easiest (like Monty at friendly: Monty, would you do me a favor and attack all civs on the other conti?... ...Yes, of course, but I insist of you giving me Drama for it...)

Very important is to use the special traits of your civ. In our case, this is generating a ton of GP´s and to switch civics very often

...

I will try to max out this diplo thing in my try, by winning without building any troops and doing no war all the game (except of "fake" wars). For slowing others down and doing some wars I will rely on Monty completely (I think this will work out fine, because I already played up to 1800something AD with my actual session. I will post the 1500 and 1700 AD saves soon)

Giaur

Mar 03, 2007, 12:50 PM

Snaaty: I never thought of such ingenious use of Globe ... drafting. I built globe, gotta test it.

Snaaty: The problem with being peacful the entire game is the fact, that one day there is no building to build and you have to build troops.

I played till 1700AD in several short sessions.

ungy

Mar 03, 2007, 01:03 PM

Well unfortunately I lose.

I had taken about half of Monte inc capital and took a break to build infra and my plan was to get to rifles and draft an army to finish him off.

He DOW'd me 15 turns after peace and had just upgraded to knights--I'm probably toast as he has around 20 attacking units which seemed high for so quick after the last war. Turn 2 of the war Genghis who was pleased DOW's me with his vassal Peter and I concede.

It wasn't a very well played game but I thought I had a good chance to bring it home until the final war.

I really enjoyed this and I hope this is not the last of these.

As usual I think I learned a lot from my mistakes and from other peoples' strategies.

Snaaty

Mar 03, 2007, 01:39 PM

@ Giaur:

When running out of buildings, you can always buid science or commerce. btw, when exactly was/is your birhtday?

concerning globe:
I was hinting for those, who didn´t get 6 cities (or more) out before lib

Giaur

Mar 03, 2007, 01:45 PM

7 March ...

Dirk1302

Mar 03, 2007, 02:33 PM

I agree with you Snaaty about getting Lib 400 AD with 3 cities. You're in no position whatsoever in this case to use it to your advantage and if you haven't room to expand at this moment you'll basically have to watch the AI's catch up.

Important thing of lib is to get it first but it doesn't have to be 800 years before Ai's. At least 6 good cities seems like a good guideline, it's minimum i think and you have to be ready to be expand shortly.

Snaaty

Mar 03, 2007, 05:44 PM

My game up to 1700 AD:

Well, not much has happened in my small peace of the world. But the rest of the world has changed quite a lot during the years:

Monty grew into the superpower on my conti and vassalized all others (except of me) and has a score of almost 5000 points (I had to bribe Monty to war against the Mongols twice, because the Mongols fought longer and better then I had expected and managed to get a peace deal before loosing to much gound. But it was very important for me, to have only one warmonger left on my conti, so I simply waited until the 10turns peace period was over and unleashed Monty again:lol:).

Brennus is the superpower on the other conti, and like Monty, he has vassalized the other nations there (Korea and Egypt). He has a score of almost 4500 points (I bribed Monty and Brennus to war fist against Egypt and then against Korea... ...well, so I´m more or less guilty of this development. Again I thought it better to have only one power left there, so I could keep Monty and Brennus fightig without having to worry of some smaller nation running of in tech/score).

…

In general, there is a big world war going on no:. Monty against Brennus (I inflicted this war of...). The fronts are more or less stagnated, but I think that Monty will prevail in the end (thanks to my technological aid).

…

I’m not very high in score, I rank only about 2500 points (only a little higher then the vassals of Monty and Brennus), but I’m right on track to a space-race victory. I’m more or less equal in tech to the techleader (Monty) and I’m keeping up in research also small in size. Only major setback is that I’m lacking coal and therefore cannot build railroads…

…

So far, I still have my 8 cities from the beginning and not a single new unit built (my army consists only of some city defenders: 4 warriors, 3 archers, and 4 axes)

pic removed

I have played in one go from 1350 AD up to 18something AD and think that I can bring this game home without too much trouble

druidravi

Mar 04, 2007, 03:23 AM

I know about those 6cities. I had 5 cities till the 1000ad save. I wanted to built globe theatre 6 theatres required. Ok i will build oxford , 6 universities :cry: . :lol:

Giaur

Mar 04, 2007, 05:07 AM

I wanted the entire continent for myself, but I am not feeling very well. I'd rather leave G.Khan. It's 1720AD. Just vassalized Peter. His favourite civic is beaurocracy. I will adopt it too, just to exchange some tech for Flight and end this game as fast as possible. Or maybe I will find strength to finish Khan.

Dirk1302

Mar 04, 2007, 07:52 AM

Things continued to go well, I took out 3 russian cities myself while Ghenghis and Monty fought for the other russian cities which they razed. I was ready for this with settlers immediately founding cities where the former russian cities were. Monty took Moscow and kept this so i let a GA do a culture bomb in Lahore and Moscow was soon revolting. In the meantime i had bribed Monty to war with Ghenghis who took Moscow next. 5 turns later it revolted again and joined my empire soon after.In this way i doubled my empire size without breathing hard. Letting nearby civs fight each other is always a good trick to get large portions of extra land, i generally save GA's to take advantage of this sort of situation. It turns out we don't have coal so i will join the war against Monty shortly.

Snaaty

Mar 04, 2007, 12:54 PM

@ all:

This round will close tomorrow night. So far, only 3 players have reached the next milestone (Giaur, Dirk and Snaaty (me))

Let´s hope that some more players manage to play up to 1700 AD today or tomorrow

Giaur

Mar 04, 2007, 01:16 PM

Launched the ship. But it's was suffering. 20 cities, I did not want to manage each of it. Made plenty mistakes, like building UN or building NE in commerce city, especially that I wanted build there Oxford University. The opponents very badly behind in tech. G.Khan was running Merchiantilism, Brennus too. I was even afraid too loose due to my own proposal: Free Religion. But at the end I had some luck. Two last parts of the spaceship were built in the same turn. Even chopped some forest, which was left to escape this Drama quickly. I do not like Space Race, I think. Maybe it would be easier if I had 10 cities. I would leave the save as soon as the next round begins.

shyuhe

Mar 04, 2007, 03:12 PM

I had to dig up my save.

I continued my war with Monty with Peter after begging Khan off. Monty had attacked Peter before so I wasn't too worried about him vassalizing Monty but I didn't want Khan to do that. After whittling Monty down to one city, I forced him to capitulate.

I then went into OR to put in the infrastructure that I had largely ignored as a consequence of the war that I had going on. I then started bribing Peter and Khan to go after Hatty and Wang Kon. Brennus was too big and nobody wanted to mess with him - I stayed in OR to run Brennus' favorite civic and to avoid a DOW. Not a whole lot of action going on otherwise - I just tried to build up the infrastructure in my cities and largely ignored military builds. I don't think I built anything after my Monty war as I had the warmongers going after the guys on the other continent instead.

Now I just need to make sure that Brennus doesn't launch before me. I will try to bribe him into going after some of the other guys on his continent, or try to negotiate a trade embargo against him. We'll see.

I've been trying to culture flip some cities for lack of anything else better to do. I'm also planning on using the internet to keep up in tech - I've hit WFYABTA with pretty much all the other civs now.

Galileo44

Mar 04, 2007, 03:15 PM

Here's my next round report up to 1700:

I came into this round with a good tech lead and going strong. I first headed to Constitution for a boost to science. Then, while I got Peter and Khan to attack Monty, I went for chemistry and steel. A dozen trebuchet and mace builds combined with 3 GMs and I declared war on Monty with Cannons and Grendiers, hitting him in the north while all of his units were in the south and east. I took 2 cities the first war, a northern one and his capital. I signed peace for a while to get my army back together, then I redeclared, taking 3 more cities and finally Vasselizing him. This was to keep Peter and Khan from having his cities. Plus, you get your fat cross in Vassel territory guarenteed! During the war, Delhi landed the Statue of Liberty, helpful now with almost double the cities! I revolted to Emancipation and cottaged over the farms that were all over Monty's land. I teched peacefully for the rest of the round and plan to continue. State Property helped with upkeep, and my trade routes finally got going once other civs got out of Mercantilism. Brennus also beat up Hatty and vasselized her and is now a monster. That was a bad idea starting that war. Now I have several 8-12 commerce routes! I am researching Radio, I have Industrialism and half of Rocketry done as well. I have Liberalism and Industrialism over Brennus, but he has Railroad and Combustion. Wang, the AI tech leader I have Industrialism over and he has RR. Peter is a little farther back, he doesn't yet have Electricity. My Former Aztec cities are paying off, the five accounting for 268 science, for an average of about 53 per city. Plus, I did not know before the war, but I secured my only source of coal with the last Aztec city I took. My GP was cut way down after Caste System was vacated and the GL expired, dropping to half of its previous level.

Here are some screenshots:
North
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/1700SnaatyNorth0000.jpg

Middle
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/Snaaty1700ADMiddle0000.jpg

South
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/1700ADSnaatysouth0000.jpg

My capital and best science city (still running Bureaucracy)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/CapitalSnaaty17000000.jpg

Calcutta, my best production city and home of the Ironworks
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/ProductioncitySnaaty17000000.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92585/Snaaty_AD-1520.CivWarlordsSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92585/Snaaty_AD-1700

mrchadt

Mar 04, 2007, 03:17 PM

Well I think I'm as good as dead.

Too many errors to mention. It's 1710AD, I did restart from 1510AD to see if I could avoid so many wars, but my diplomatic skills let me down. I think the only reason I lasted as long as I did was because I found both bronze and iron in some nearby hills. Although my attack on monty was quite good, taking a couple of his cities. In my first war I thought I had a 10xp unit and agreed peace, but I was mistaken so no HE was a disaster. I didn't realise that I could use my great general to give xp for this, something I did later, when it occured to me, after another war.
One thing I did achieve was first to circumnavigate the globe, I did this without a caravell, I just traded maps with Wang and Brenus. I was in free religion when they arrived. I wish I had taken better care about what technology I traded and with who, maybe now Brenus wouldn't be sending over his artillary and destroyers.
I did manage 6 cities and the Globe and this is working well. Here are my saves, but I wouldn't recommend you bother looking.

149194

149195

shyuhe

Mar 04, 2007, 05:05 PM

This is for post 1700 stuff. I just wanted to post it before I forget the details (like I did for the pre-1700 stuff). I will post the saves for it after this round closes:

I just wanted to post this stuff before I forget. I launched in the mid 1800's. I researched assembly line, then built factories and coal plants in all of my cities (Brennus got the dam). I then beelined the internet and built that in my ironworks city before I had even touched the apollo program. I started the program after the internet and started researching towards fusion. I completed factory/coal plant/laboratory in most of my cities and set them to build research. Once the program was done, I divided the casings, thrusters, life support, engine, and docking bay between the cities so that they'd finish in about 10 turns.

I then researched towards genetics. In the meantime, I picked up 3 GE (I ran representation almost all game) and rushed the space elevator using 2. I burned the last one building the UN to make sure no funny resolutions got passed (I didn't pass anything - I was voted secretary but I just took no action in hopes of slowing down Brennus). I continued to bribe on wars, and at one point Brennus even managed to take a few of Peter's cities. Khan was stuck in a perpetual struggle against somebody on the other continent and it really hurt his research - I had to feed him military tech to make him decent.

Brennus was in a perpetual state of war (I swung him after Wang after he got peace with Peter) and it really slowed down his tech rate - he was the tech leader going into the war against Peter but I overtook him (with no small help from the internet) by the end of that war. I was actually production limited in the end (because I stupidly built the apollo program so late) rather than research limited, even though I was finishing the game in a golden age. I was almost done with the first future tech when I launched.

I think if you can secure yourself 10 or so good cities, then the endgame on immortal isn't too bad. You just have to make sure you're on good terms with the warmongers and keep them occupied by sending them after the builders. And the internet is awesome. I think it gave me at least 5-7 techs this game.

Snaaty

Mar 05, 2007, 01:08 AM

@ shyuhe, mrchadt, Galileo:

Thanks for the quick replays

...

@ all:

Meanwhile I also left for the starts, but it was only after 1900 AD. This was due to me having no coal and only the 8 cities I had from the beginning. I played this game through in only 4 sessions I think (little more then 3 hours).

Another thing that slowed me down greatly was the fact, that in my game (thanks to my bribing activities), only Monty and Brennus were left and did run merk up to the end, because they were constantly locked in a war. So I also had to run merk...

Still I was quite comfortable in tech lead (3 techs on Monty, the closest rival), so no real danger there. In the end, Monty even started to burn some costline cities from Brennus, so I think his war was going very well.

I also did ran a golden age in the end, but it was more or less for show, because I never really was in danger in the space race.

So in the end, I really did manage to bring home this game wihtout ever going to war and without building a single unit, even with mainly warmongers on my conti

I will post my final save when I have closed this round

mrchadt

Mar 05, 2007, 02:30 AM

Snaaty

Mar 05, 2007, 02:52 AM

I'm very impressed with your moving inland idea snatty, it serves a couple of purposes other then blocking the ai.

1. It makes your capital more central in your empire, reducing mantainance costs.

2.It is a more effective fog buster. Cultural borders expanding into the sea does nothing to stop barbarians.

On the topic of barbarians, does anyone have a guide to their activity, ie when they start to attack cities or pillage and what is the best system of fog busting. Thanks

I never thought about the upkeep thing, but you are right... ...I just had a quick glance on my last save and found out that I in fact never even bothered to build the forbidden palace (had always enough money:))

Concerning barbs:

Their activity is a bit level dependend:

On immortal I think they start entering your territory around 2200 BC (emperor 2000 BC, deity 2500 BC).

When you want to play save, build 2-3 warriors (warrior, worker warrior, warrior settler, archer, archer = also good to grow your first city to a decent size) early and use them as fogbusters (research archery ASAP), so you can place archers on strat important places before barbs invad you (places, where barbs keep comming through, because you can´t/won´t fogbuster all there). City-spam when you have fogbustered out your area...

I proceded exactly in this way in my game here, so you can have a closer look on my first save so see exact datas of reseach and so on...

Mutineer

Mar 05, 2007, 07:20 AM

Well, seens I am figting non stop I can not play that fast, so my save will be abit more late.

Mutineer

Mar 05, 2007, 10:36 AM

well, Played to 1715.

From 1400 to this time I did try to stay in peace. Develop, trade, ets.
I useally do not do that, but allmost all of my gp were GP's, so I stick them in my buddist holly city capital and build a Wall Street there, making it really gold city. Biggest problem is that Brennus and Peter are friends. I send Peter to war Mongold again and he Vassal mOngols.
May be I should have tryed to Vassal them myself, but was not really able to affort war.
Research wize went to democracy, Buld Taj Maxal and Statue of liberty. Iron works in capital. I am still in burocracy, but now towns coming up, it is probably time to go to free speach soon.

Brenus/hatty war, well Brenus allmost got Hatty but made peace befor vassaling her.

Brenus will be a new tech leader, Peter was slow down a lot. Not sure what I will do, probably beeline to internet, may be. Not sure.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-1715.CivWarlordsSave

lilnev

Mar 05, 2007, 11:16 AM

I'm not to 1700 yet, but in the late 1500s it's going very well. I took a big bite out of Monty, now I'm doing the same to Peter. Slight tech lead. Fuller report tomorrow.

peace,
lilnev

Snaaty

Mar 05, 2007, 11:26 AM

@ Lilnev:

No problem, I will wait then till tomorrow (until your 1700AD save and/or summary is in) with the 1700 AD report.

...

@ Multineer:

Thanks for your save

...

@ all:

With Multineer & Lilnev, we have 8 saves for 1700 AD. I think with 8 saves I will find the time to do a "proper" summary of this turnset:D (I will start tonight...)

Snaaty

Mar 05, 2007, 01:07 PM

@ Galileo44:

I couldn´t download your 1700 AD save (file not found error). I would like to include it in my summary... ...so if you could post it again?

Galileo44

Mar 05, 2007, 01:31 PM

I think that this will work (one of the two).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92585/Snaaty_AD-1700.CivWarlordsSave

Galileo44

Mar 05, 2007, 03:45 PM

And through the end:

I kept up the peaceful teching, and my GNP skyrocketed as you will see from the screenshot. I got one main production cities and had 2 more secondary cities. No more wars on my continenet, but Brennus ate most of Wang Kon and Vasselized him too. Long story short, easy win in 1872, the AI were 20-30 turns back. The most irritating thing was that one of Peter's cities stole 3 floodplains towns and a grassland town from my #2 science city in the 1840s by culture. What did he proceed to do? He watermilled over them. :crazyeye: I was getting an average of 200 beakers per turn per city by the end, as I had several cities working 7-12 towns. The aztec cities as a whole were production starved, so while they got towns, some of them didn't have enough hammers to get universities, observatories, and labs.

Game end:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/win0000.jpg
GNP:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/Galileo44/SnaatyImmortalGNP0000.jpg
As you can see, I had a similar graph to Aelf in his IMC once democracy came in.

34454 Normalized Score

My first Immortal Victory, and the current highest score in my HOF for a Peaceful Victory Condition. I do feel a little cheating as it was an amazing start, but I didn't actually cheat, so I am surprised by my performance. I thought that an immortal win would be much harder and demand more war and MM.

Winston Hughes

Mar 05, 2007, 04:32 PM

I'm out.

I didn't actually die (in fact I was beating down Peter when I quit), but my economy was in tatters after a thorough pillaging of my southern cities, whilst Brennus and Genghis have become far too powerful for me to compete with.

I could've carried on, but I've now got a huge stack of work to do, and getting a good thrashing at the hands of the AI is too depressing a way to spend my precious free time.

I'm clearly not yet good enough to handle immortal, although participating in this challenge has taught me a lot. In particular: I can now see why lightbulbing is valued so much on the higher levels; lilnev's point about the GW-Pyramids gambit was an eye-opener; I now understand the benefits of Snaaty's 'move inland' start a bit better; 'grow to size five before settler spamming' was something I hadn't considered before; and 'get at least 6 cities before liberalism' looks like a good rule of thumb.

I'll definitely join in another of these games if I can find the time. Given the importance of diplomacy at higher levels, and the relative difficulty of winning that kind of victory, would you consider trying a non-backdoor diplomatic challenge? I don't know how you'd set up such a challenge (maximum of eight cities?), but it would be really interesting to see how experienced players handle a game where the usual space/domination/culture strategies don't apply.

:goodjob:

shyuhe

Mar 05, 2007, 10:23 PM

The high level diplomacy challenge is the current major (if it's still running - haven't looked). It's a deity diplomacy victory, and most players are running OCC and using SE to bulb their way to MM, followed by GE and chops to rush the UN. I haven't tried myself but if you can avoid early wars, I think it shouldn't be too hard to do (if you get your pick of civs, of course). If you had to do a non-backdoor diplomacy victory with Monty, Alex, and Toku as your neighbors.... things would be interesting.

jamuraa

Mar 05, 2007, 11:17 PM

I'm afraid you won't be seeing any more of my saves for this open game, even though it was fun to try to play at such a high level, unfortunately most of my work past 1000 has been hitting the enter button and trying desperately to get my 6th city. I may play it later, but I don't really have time as of now. :( Hopefully you won't miss my lackluster performance :cool:

Snaaty

Mar 06, 2007, 04:09 AM

@ Galileo44:

Congratz then:goodjob:

...

@ jamuraa & Winston Hughes:

No problem, maybe next time (btw. the time thing is why I pref space-race over domination... ...I also haven´t that much time and a space-race game normally takes me 3-4 hours to finish... ...dom is something 10+ hours)

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 05:40 AM

I have Duron 700 and 512MB RAM, so my games last twice as long.

Mutineer

Mar 06, 2007, 06:33 AM

WEll, I launch 1918 I think, but was able to do it mach early. I was mostly fulling around, build all later wanders, all electricity/radio/mass media/3 gorges/elevator/internet, did 5 golden agess, running pacifism all rest of turns.

Just press enter.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-1918.CivWarlordsSave

Galileo44

Mar 06, 2007, 08:31 AM

Yeah, my computer is crappy too, that's why it has all the weird blue bars on the main screen where text and pictures should be.

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 09:14 AM

Nothing special. There won't be the report this time. I have not enjoyed the game too much.

Winston Hughes

Mar 06, 2007, 12:39 PM

Yeah, my computer is crappy too, that's why it has all the weird blue bars on the main screen where text and pictures should be.

Is this the challenge for people with crappy computers? Mine's useless too; it crashes if I leave the wonder movies or unit animations turned on. And don't even think about going into globe view unless you've got a spare half-hour to waste. That said, it's got nothing on the Babbage Engine I use at college; that takes five minutes just to show the screenshots on these forums, and even when they finally show up they're all blurred and darkly psychedelic. :badcomp:

Back OT, any ideas on the next challenge, Snaaty? I agree on the time issue, but we can't just play space-race again, can we? As I mentioned above, a diplomatic challenge would be interesting if you set the right constraints.

How about choosing 3 or 4 warmongers as opponents (and leaving the other spots random), pangea, no vassals, and a maximum of 8 cities? A requirement to build Mt. Rushmore and the Apollo Program before calling the victory vote could prevent the pure Mass Media beeline and help to keep things tense in the late game.

I reckon that would leave us a lot of different strategies to choose from, whilst keeping the focus on careful manipulation of the AI civs. The warmongers amongst us would still be able to satisfy their bloodlust, whilst the builders could play more peacefully. Plus, it need not be as time consuming as a domination challenge, or as 'sit back and repeatedly press enter' as a cultural one. Any thoughts?

lilnev

Mar 06, 2007, 12:43 PM

Sorry for the delay, but I've been fighting a lot.

1000 AD to 1700 AD:
1000 AD. The war grinds on. Liberalism-Nationalism, though I wonder if I should have taken Gunpowder instead. I'm still fighting with catapults/longbows. Eventually my allies bow out. I give Monty Optics for peace so I can finally mine the Iron. It's been just on my side of the culture border, but I haven't had anything that can stand in the open against a horse archer, much less a maceman. No metal sucks.

1260 AD. Military tradition. I don't have stockpiled horse archers, so I'll have to build cavalry from scratch. But at least I can start. I'm ahead of everyone locally. Wang Kon has some good techs (Constitution and Econ). Brennus is the score leader, though not too bright. By accident, I circumnavigate. Trading for the right set of maps.

All my secondary cities have spawned their great people (most recently a GA from the HE city. I've spoken my venom for GAs before. Put him to sleep, for a late game golden age). So I try to turn off specialists in all but my capital (GP farm). I wish the city governor had a "do not assign specialists" button. As it is, I have to survey my empire each turn, and manually unassign the inevitable specialist in each city that has grown.

Once I've got a few cavalry, I bribe Ghengis back into war with Monty, then attack myself.

The 1400s are good to me; I core out 5 cities from the heart of Monty's empire. Before I can finish the job, he vassalizes himself to Ghengis. Well, at least that GA has something worth doing now. Culture bomb to push borders. Brennus is taking over the other continent. His tech isn't particularly good, however. I tech to Democracy and turn Monty's lands into suburbia. Then Scientific Method (turns off GL, oh well) and Physics.

A few turns later, Peter commits suicide by declaring on Ghengis/Monty. Um, Peter? You have muskets and he has cavalry. I've got a dozen cavalry myself that I didn't get full use of last time, so I jump into the war, quickly taking a couple of large cities. Start the Globe-draft:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi-globe0000.JPG

Unfortunately I don't have Rifling, and can't get it for a reasonable price (just Physics, on which I have a monopoly). I become worried that Peter will vassalize himself to Ghengis, so I bribe Ghengis into peace. Immediately, Peter gets rifles and it's tough again. I try to slog onwards, but his increasing stacks of rifles and grenadiers and too intimidating for my 13 cavalry, and I don't have the seige engine support to bring to bear. How can he put out this many units with just 3 cities? 'Tis a mystery.

I build the SoL with the help of that long-sleeping GE. Sue for peace to get my economy back online. I've been running barely above 0% for a while now due to new cities and unit expenses. I've got the cottages in place, so I switch to Emancipation + Free Speech. Time to cruise to victory. I'm still in Rep-Merc-OR for now. US-SP-Free Religion are the probable endgame civics, but until the cottages grow up I still need those

1700 AD. Growth phase. Tech-wise, I'm about one back of the leaders (Hattie and Wang) who have Steel; though I'm almost to Assembly Line. Another GE awaits the Space Elevator. My GNP is recovering, and should soon go through the roof:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi-gnp0000.JPG

Here's the map:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi-map0000.JPG

Should be pretty straightforward from here out.

peace,
lilnev

Galileo44

Mar 06, 2007, 01:45 PM

Why are you building the FP in Novgorod? It would be better in Smolensk or Texcoco. I think you are about to see the same sort of Democracy fueled economic growth that I had. (see my endgame report)

PS. Who won(unofficially) this event? As in fastest launch date.

lilnev

Mar 06, 2007, 02:44 PM

Smolensk would be ideal location-wise, but it's behind on it's infrastructure (no Forge, and I think no Courthouse yet). Novgorod will reduce itself and four neighbors that are some of my highest-maintenance cities, so it's not a bad location per se. Plus it has pretty good production to get the job done (it'll grow onto a few more hills), and the culture will help claim border tiles from the Russians.

Snaaty

Mar 06, 2007, 04:37 PM

Thanks for your save lilnev, so here is the 1700 AD summary:

Shyuhe:

12 cities, science at 80% without making losses, beakers: 1070, gold: 230, production 286
Civics: rep, free speach, emancipation, state prop, org. rel.
Policy: No wars, Monty is vassal to Shyuhe
Economy: hybrid economy
Points: 3068
Score-leader: 3680 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Monty
Most advanced tech: computers

Mrchadt:

7 cities, science at 60% without making losses, beakers: 287, gold: 177, production 138
Civics: her.rule, bureaucracy, slavery, free market, org. rel.
Policy: War with Brennus (who has vassalized Egypt and Korea)
Economy: hybrid economy
Points: 1883
Score-leader: 4825 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Monty
Most advanced tech: assembly line

Galileo:

11 cities, science at 60% without making losses, beakers: 1204, gold: 189, production 299
Civics: rep, bureaucracy, emancipation, state prop, free rel.
Policy: No wars, Egypt is vassal to Brennus, Monty is vassal to Galileo
Economy: cottage economy
Points: 2741
Score-leader: 4369 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Monty
Most advanced tech: industrialisation

Lilnev:

16 cities, science at 50% without making losses, beakers: 751, gold: 348, production 164
Civics: rep, free speach, emancipation, merk, org. rel.
Policy: No wars, with Brennus has vassalized Egypt and Korea, Monty is vassal to Lilnev
Economy: cottage economy
Points: 2531
Score-leader: 4636 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: two expansion wars, one against Monty, one against Peter
Most advanced tech: physics

Mutineer:

14 cities, science at 80% without making losses, beakers: 1117, gold: 408, production 413
Civics: rep, bureaucracy, emancipation, merk, org. rel.
Policy: Monty destroyed, Dschingis is vassal to Mutineer
Economy: hybrid economy
Points: 3282
Score-leader: 4109 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Monty, one expansion war against Dschingis
Most advanced tech: combustion

Dirk:

17 cities, science at 70% without making losses, beakers: 983, gold: 279, production 251
Civics: rep, free speach, slavery, state prop, free rel.
Policy: No wars, Egypt is vassal to Brennus, Russia is destroyed
Economy: hybrid economy
Points: 3077
Score-leader: 3822 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Peter
Most advanced tech: electricity

Giaur:

18 cities, science at 80% without making losses, beakers: 1214, gold: 354, production 610
Civics: rep, bureaucracy, emancipation, merk, free rel.
Policy: War with Hatschi & Peter, Brennus has vassalized Korea, Dschingis has vassalized Monty
Economy: cottage economy
Points: 3889
Score-leader: 4256 (Brennus)
Expansion-policy: one expansion war against Monty, one expansion war against Peter
Most advanced tech: industrialisation

Snaaty (me)

8 cities, science at 80% without making losses, beakers: 976, gold: 134, production 266
Civics: rep, bureaucracy, emancipation, merk, free rel.
Policy: No wars, Brennus has vassalized Egypt and Korea, Monty has vassalized Russia and Mongolia
Economy: food economy (zero cottages)
Points: 2546
Score-leader: 4770 (Monty)
Expansion-policy: peaceful expansion
Most advanced tech: radio

…

Summary:

We have 5 players using hybrid economy, 3 players cottage economy and one player food economy. Still all players are about the same tech level, so again not much difference can be noted here.

The warmongers are again the strongest faction. A simple rule seems to apply: The more cities you have, the faster you tech in the end, so Giaur seems to have the strongest position around 1700 AD with:

beakers: 1214, gold: 354, production 610.

Snaaty (me) is the only one who played completely peaceful and with only 8 cities (and using pure FE), but up to around 1700 AD, it seems that this also allows proceeding at a decent pace:

beakers: 976, gold: 134, production 266

…but I expect falling back soon

…

@ Mrchadt:

You can check out my save if you like. I’m about the same size as you but have 5times your research and almost double production. I think your civics (and your diplo, but you have mentioned that yourself) are the main problems. The other saves I wouldn’t compare, because with all the great warmongers out there, your and my empires look quite small and crappy in comparison

...

Final saves should be in on wensday (closing of this game)

...

Concerning the winner:

I would say every player who manages to leave for the stars is a winner:)

Congratz again to Galileo for your first immortal victory

...

Concerning next game:

Tommorow is Giaur´s birthday, so he should be the one to choose (@ Giaur: so feel free to post a start and name a victory condition here, I will start a new thread with your save then after wednesday)

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 04:54 PM

most likely: rep,free speach, ema, state prop, free religion

edit: i'll try choose interesting map :)

mrchadt

Mar 06, 2007, 05:12 PM

Thanks for the tips Snatty. I will try agin on the next game to see if I can improve. Maybe I will try to expand more but I'm not sure my military skills are up to the task. Well played everyone who won and to those who didn't, like me, I hope you enjoyed the game anyway. See you next time.

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 05:46 PM

My idea is:
Victoria fin/imp
Immortal diff
Snaky Continents
Rocky Climate (hills)
Raging Barbs
Agressive AI (???)
additional worker
additional eeee unit
maybe one tech like Agriculture

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/victoria0000.JPG

What do you think?

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 05:54 PM

The second vote goes for Cathy: cre/imp. I made her my first Imm win in Warlords.

shyuhe

Mar 06, 2007, 07:08 PM

Giaur, what is an eeee unit?

Giaur and Mutineer have quite impressive empires. I should learn to warmonger like they do :D It looks like both have a lot of intrastructure in by 1700 too.

I think I got assembly line after computers so I had some pretty abysmal production at 1700. I'm guessing both of you guys have already built/started factories on your games? Is going computers before factories a bad idea even if you're not planning on doing any more wars?

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 07:11 PM

Giaur, what is an eeee unit?

It can be seen on the screen :D

shyuhe

Mar 06, 2007, 07:27 PM

is that a helicopter that I see? I wasn't sure what it was...

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 07:31 PM

correct.

There is much use of this unit on this map. But I am sure that this won't make our side overpowered. I lost capital twice. And gunships cannot capture cities. I can leave the save for try. I'll be back in a moment ...

Mutineer

Mar 06, 2007, 07:36 PM

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 07:42 PM

This is SPOILER!

But if you don't know how to manage with that situation, try the save.

Snaaty is chief here and I suppose that your votes will be deciding too. But personaly never played with a gunship from the beggining.

There is one thread. Deity with two Armors, but I believe that this is completely different. Here are raging barbs and possibly agrresive AI.

If the idea go through, new save will be generated.

shyuhe

Mar 06, 2007, 07:50 PM

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 07:58 PM

btw. what is hybrid economy? Specialization?

Galileo44

Mar 06, 2007, 08:49 PM

Hybrid economy= cottages in some cities and more than 1 city running a lot of specialists. As CE can include 1 GP farm (which I had), and I also had SoL, but that is automatic specialists.

Mutineer

Mar 06, 2007, 09:44 PM

mutineer - were you popping GP's? I kept on getting GS/GE - I popped most of my GS and rushed wonders with my GE. That didn't leave many great people to settle at the end (since I just left them for a GA towards the end).

Seens I build Stonehenge+ Oracle in capital = a lot of GP points. Most of my GP's were settle early in the game, not later. I did not want them, but so many GP points were making me to produce them. Work nicelly in a long run.

shyuhe

Mar 06, 2007, 10:38 PM

Giaur -

raging barbs are pretty nasty on immortal. They enter your borders around 2600 BC :eek: I did get them to destroy a civilization for me though :)

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3240/civ4screenshot0005ob1.jpg

I think the aggressive AI is going to make the game super hard. Civs start between cautious/annoyed, which will really kill your trade opportunities. Granted, you can probably eliminate all of the enemy civs on your continent/island with the gunship but you'll need the GW to avoid dying from barbs either way.

Did you have a particular victory condition in mind?

Giaur

Mar 06, 2007, 10:53 PM

- shyuhe
I hope every condition is possible. But domination is somehow bound with the trait. Gunship should be used to destroy some civilizations (get great generals either) to be strong enough to resist any attack later. War is eminent, but it's up to you if it will be defensive war or go for domination. Only beginnig should encourage player to get some land. If he will have twice as cities as opponents, he could survive. Heroic Epic is guaranted. Trait also grants us with Military Academies as well. I am not sure about diplomacy, actually never played Agressive AI's. Hope there will be possibilities to trade.

Hehe. Imagine gunship cooperating with barbs to destroy another civ.

Snaaty

Mar 07, 2007, 03:42 AM

@ Giaur:

happy birthday

...

@ all:

Well Giaurs idea seems interesting to me... ...I have never before played ranging barbs and agressive AI (and starting with a gunship:D)... ...so I would basically be in for it

I think we should go for domination then, because it would fit the theme most I think (well, personally, I would like to play only space-race games, because I haven´t too much time, but hey... ...why not give it a try;))

...

another idea based on this theme would be:

immortal, agressive AI´s, but no barbs (to give us a little early advantage) and no additional advantages on human player, rest (map, settings etc...) as Giaur proposed

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 07:48 AM

Please, tell what difficulty level would you like? What conditions?

I found a bit easy Immortal difficulty, but I'd like to know your opinions too.

Interesting thing is the question ... What to do with this unit. I had plenty ideas about it. Also arises a question what promotions give to this unit. My heli jumped to 65exp. It's 8 level I think. And now I know how I would improve this promoting.

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 07:51 AM

maybe we should make two classes of saves. Immortal and Deity.

Snaaty

Mar 07, 2007, 08:21 AM

@ Giaur:

two versions of the game I don´t think are a good idea...

My proposal:

With the gunship and a worker as starting bonus for human player I would go for deity (immortal... ...way to easy, because all AI´s will be slowed down extremely by the barbs and we still have a gunship)

Agressive AI´s with your map and settings, but without barbs and no starting bonuses for human player I would go for immortal (=still a little harder then last time, because of the agressive AI´s)

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 09:09 AM

sounds fine :goodjob:

I will be honored when players decide ...

mrchadt

Mar 07, 2007, 01:23 PM

Well I think keeping the settings as standard as possible is best, i.e. no gunship, raging barbs and no bonus for human player. Aggressive ai might make me more war oriented so no objection there. But who am I? I will support the chiefs of this movement.

Galileo44

Mar 07, 2007, 01:54 PM

Hey, I'll try deity! It seems like with its 4 moves (i think) the gunship will be rediculous once it gets to blitz. This will be fun.

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 02:10 PM

Galileo44: this was exactly what I had in mind, when was talking about taking into consider another promoting system of mine.

Blitz is perhaps the best promo on this map.

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 02:13 PM

but there are some problems with generating map. Generated two good saves but with no wonder resources.

Giaur

Mar 07, 2007, 02:17 PM

blitz, leadership and Combat6

lilnev

Mar 07, 2007, 02:17 PM

A short report this time:
Endgame was straightforward. Assembly Line and build factories + coal plants in most cities. Steel-Artillery-Rocketry and get Apollo underway. Around 1800, Ghengis declared on what's left of Peter, and I jumped in to secure a source of Coal. Radio, then back up for Railroad because it looks like I won't have any trading partners. Brennus put up his Apollo program in 1820. Computers for labs, then Industrialism for Aluminum (should this have been earlier, to aid the Apollo program?). I pick up Biology because it's only 2 turn, then Satellites + Robotics for the Elevator (a saved GE rushes it), then it's on to Fusion.

Tenochtitlan goes into revolt for the fourth time, despite being 45% Indian and having a large garison. Do I deserve this?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi_revolt0000.JPG

Lastly, Genetics and Ecology. Launch in 1920 AD, about 3 parts ahead of Brennus. Hit "one more turn" to get the save, and Tenochtitlan goes into revolt for the fifth time. Is there some game mechanic I don't know about? This doesn't seem right.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi_revolt20000.JPG

Here's the GNP graph, as expected:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98640/ghandi_gnp0000.JPG

peace,
lilnev