Since Rhye's has this cool pre-turn thing, where the earth develops without for a awhile, how does the world turn out usually in your games? Or at least what have you noticed, such as

Which are the strongest civs?
Which are the weakest?
Which are Tech Leaders?
Which build huge armies?
Who colonizes the most?

Just curious as how other people's games turn out. Also what was the oddest thing (Empire placement wise) you ever saw the AI do? (P.S. Mine was the french invaded me, as England!)

I'm sick of Germany. I have Vanilla, so there's no Scandinavia civ, so the Germans usually get that region and end up with lots of production and huge armies, so they overrun France or Greece or something. Only England seems to really compete with the Germans.

In Warlords it's pretty Dynamic. China can be overpoweringly strong, or completely collapsed by 1500AD. Same for the Mongols. India is usually weak, but I'm playing a game where they're #1 in score. The Independant states is the major factor IMO.

I play warlords and have never seen a strong china, England tends to be no. 1 or 2 in nearly every game, also mali tends to be pretty far tech wise, dunno why though, must be all that extra commerce

I find that the European civs are usually at teh top. Arabia is often very strong, but can be weak if Persia dominated the Babylonians early. China is often top 5 or gone, but if gone replaced by mongolia.

In my current game I'm no. one (Rome) and China is second (first time I see strong China). Mali is the weakest one (I haven't met Aztecs, Incas and Mongolia) ;)

I usually play Vanilla version on RFC, though I have the Warlords versions. few times I played until 2050, but most of the time, the situation it's like this:
-Germany: as potatokiosk said, Germany it's usually very powerful, except those few times when Russians take scandi's iron. Then Germany, without horses or iron, fades on middle ages until falling in the late renaissance because of simultaneous attacks from Russia, France, and time to time, Greece.

-Ancient Mediterranean civs (Rome, Egypt, Persia and Greece): on the last versions, these civs NEVER reach the middle ages. They always fall, and only until renaissance or so, the area it's started to be conquered by germans, frenchies and arabs.

-England: most of the time, it's the leading civ, until america spawns. They sometimes mislead their path, and settle here and there, creating something close to the British empire, but without India.

-France: Louis it's a tough guy. He almost always resists German attacks, and they settle usually on Brazil, and on New Orleans area (to lose it to Americans). Usually has the Christian holy city, so he has cash enough to put some mercs in the way if things get too dificult. Castles well.

-Incans: incans are usually third or fourth on the ranking! Without a rival in South America, they usually have it all, exception done for the Brazilian coast, disputed always by french and spanish.

-Americans: americans are usually from fourth to sixth. I've seen them winning by score in ol versions, but this was good old times for them, that have finished. Most of the time, they start with just one city, the auto-funded New York, and know only Spanish. There is no independence war, as long as they don't know English! They usualy conquer the half eastern of their historical territory. The west part is always either Spanish or Aztec.

-Indians: another civ that usually survives from the beginnig to the end, and most of the time, they only fight English on the very end. If you're prepared with some thinked-of units, you'll eat them with chips. English don't usually take ever an Indian city.

-Spanish: they are usually strong, but never too much. Never conquers america, but neither they fall.

The rest have a flexible existance, and depend a lot of how the civs from above play out. Mali usually survives, too, but they're weak. Arabia can be either a lot of powerful, or end their life pretty soon. The same happens to Japan and China.

I'm using v 1.40 warlords and i'm reciting this from memory so bear with me...

Egypt - in my games, they are usually minnows, having been overrun by natives from the south. they sometimes build the great wall and can be a small threat to the arabs and carthaginians in the first 50 turns after they spawn depending on how they usually do. egypt usually spends most of the game as a vassal

India - also minnows, they found bhuddism and hinduism early on. their cities are usually stopped from growing too big in the early game due to unhealthyness from the jungles. they occasionally can make an impact on the world in the middle/later game, but also usually end up being a vassal.

China - They are either a powerhouse or collapsed by 1500AD. this usually depends on wheather they build the great wall or not, and how lucky they are against the mongols. I have never had a game where they are someone's vassal, probably because by the time the big powers meet them and build an embassy, they are either a big power themselves or are collapsed. They usually found Taoism and Cofunicism.

Babylon - They are a moderate power early on in the game but are pretty much doomed around 500-1000AD when the arabs/persians spawn. They usually build a few wonders and are either conquered with ease by their neighbours or collapse due to the newly spawning civs flipping their cities.

Greece - They usually quickly grow into a giant in the early and middle game, but tend to drift off a little in the late game due to surrounding civs becoming more powerful. They usually build the oracle and sometimes found Christianity if they are advanced enough. Greece also has to deal with a few barbarian horsemen but their UU ensures they have few problems with them.

Persia - They usually expand between the borders of India and Babylon if they are still around. They cannot spend much time on expanding early on because they have loads of barbarians to combat. They usually survive all the game in my experiance and start to expand to the north when they build elephants. they usually build a few wonders too. Persia is not usually a leader in score in the middle/late game.

Carthage - They are never a real threat, because they are overwhelmed by barbarians from the south, and usually the Romans/colonial European powers in the north. They have very rarely built the great wall and in my experiance have never survived beyond 1500AD. They occasionally expand into Spain.

Rome - Can go one of 2 ways. They are usually very successful in the early game, expanding into Europe and founding/conquering a lot of cities. When the other European civs start to spawn, their stability usually takes a massive hit. If they survive this, they can usually become the equal of any european power, and maybe slightly more powerful sometimes. They sometimes build the great wall, and sometimes found Christianity. If they collapse, they rarely return because another civ conquers their cities and becomes the dominant power for the rest of the game.

Japan - In version 1.40, Japan is little threat to anyone. Because they cannot keep contact with anyone except the chinese for long, they cannot trade techs a lot. They usually expand into the area between Asia and Australia, occasionally attacking the Chinese and getting Seoul on the Asian mainland. They sometimes found a religeon, but rarely.

Vikings - They have a homeland which is full of mineral resources and as a result have a high production rate. Sometimes, they can be the first to circumnavigate and they usually have a strong navy, especially around the North Sea and atlantic. They also try and expand into England through settling or invasion. Other places they like to colonise are Iceland and Newfoundland. I have also known the vikings to build the Colossus sometimes.

Arabs - The Arabs always found Islam (it's pre-programmed) and get Jerusalem, which is 9/10 times the holy city for both Christianity and Judasism. This brings them a lot of wealth one they get some great prophets because most of the world is usually Christian/Jewish. Arabia will always adopt one of these three religions and their middle/late game fate depends on which one they adopt. Once it has spawned, Arabia grows into one of the most powerful civs in the world. However, due to a lack of production power if it doesnt conquer babylonian territorry, it usually ends up becomming a vassal of a European civ in the industrial age. In the late game, a lot of oil becomes available to the Arabs, so it can have a mini-resurgance.

Spain - The first of the colonial powers to spawn, they usually adopt Christianity as a religion (but sometimes they are muslim or jewish) and attack any neighbours who don't adopt the same as them. Spain almost always colonises the north-west African coast, islands like the canaries and the azores, South America and central america. This usually costs therir economy dear in the turns after they colonise, but when the colonies grow, they become a major power with a big navy, and sometimes, they attack the aztecs/inca.

France - Their spawn usually spells trouble for the romans, as they take at least three cities away from them. In my experiance, they usually adopt Judaism but quickly change to Christianity. France is usually a big power because it rarely gets worn down by wars due to its UP. They usually in Louisianna, the caribbean, very rarely in south america(?), North Africa and Madagascar. If the romans have collapsed, France sometimes gets their cities too. Despite this, I never really rated their naval power. France also builds a few middle-game wonders.

England - The biggest colonial power, England is only usually suceptable to invasion from the vikings, so it has time to build a lot of settlers rather than worry about its military. Also, being an island, England's UP makes it difficult for foreign powers to invade, as their ships don't usually get far before being sank :P. England usually colonises South Africa, Australia, North Americe (East and west coasts), the barbarian cities in south-eastern Asia (Cambodia/vietnam), and the caribbean. England is usually a leader in score and technology from the middle/industrial ages and it is hard to dislodge them.

Germany - They usually expand into Eastern Europe until their borders meet the Russians', and have an awesome production power once they are established. They do not seek to colonise very much, maybe a city or 2 in the East indies or central africa. Germany usually becomes a juggernaught from the industrial ages onward due to its (perhaps overpowered) UP. They are also usually leaders in technology and are very strong. After a plague has hit, they can be up to full military capability quicker than any other civ (Which is bad for the rest of Europe, especially the French). If the romans have collapsed, Germany sometimes gets their cities.

Russia - Russia needs to concentrate on its defensive power with 2 potentially large and dangerous armies on its borders within 100 turns (Mongols and Germans) It has Persia/Turkey to the south but they are never really much of a threat. The russians like to expand in a bloc (keeping their cultural borders in one piece). The one exception to this is their demands for Havana in congresses. They usually go west until they meet the germans, and then sometimes move east. Despite occasionally warring with Germany and the Mongols (and rarely the vikings), they remain largely intact, sometimes making gains into eastern Europe. Russia is rarely a major power in the game though.

Mali - The success of this civ depends largely on wheather they control the iron source to their northwest across the desert. It is rare that they collapse but if they don't get it, they can not defend against native impis well and they get punished for it. Anyway, they are almost always immediately made into a vassal, usually of Spain and sometimes England or France. They also usually adopt Islam as their state religion. After they have broken free from their vassal, they research rechs like crazy, and are always willing to trade with people (but they will rip you off a lot of the time). Rarely expanding far from their starting location, they are never a real power, but they are useful to have around if you have the money to buy their techs.

Turkey - The turks spawn in a very busy middle east, and with their new UP, they hold their own and then some. Quite often, they go to town on the Greeks, getting Istanbul and cities that would be North of Greece IRL. They don't really expand past that, but for a while in the late middle ages, they are a real threat to anyone, as they have a big stack of cannon where they have upgraded their starting units. Turkey usually ends up being Christian and as a result, enjoys better relations with the Europeans than most other non-european civs. Sometimes, hostilities break out between them and the arabs. although it often vassalises other civs, Turkey is never usually very strong but it can be an annoyance for some people.

Inca - The first civ to be based in the Americas to spawn, the inca are restricted by the Andes as to where they can settle. However, their UP gives them a use for settling near the mountains. The Inca are usually technologically backward and with European colonies soon to come into existance in the rest of South America, they cannot really do anything except sit there. When they come into contact with European civs, they get the plague, and they are then occasionally invaded by the Spanish, finishing them off. They rarely live to see the modern age. If they have a religeon, it is usually Christianity gotten from the colonial powers.

Mongolia - Usually spells trouble for the Chinese. In many of my games, the mongols have controlled the entire chinese mainland when I have met them. As a result, they are usually a major power in a game from the middle ages onward. They are usually Cofunican or Taoist and as a result, they do not like the European civs who are Christian most of the time. Quite often, after they have conquered the Chinese, they turn their attention to the persians or russians, and maybe the indians. They never look to colonise anywhere, but like to conquer civ's homelands by force.

Aztecs - Like the inca, they have to contend with the technologically advanced colonial powers, but they make a slightly better job of it than the inca. The Aztecs settle modern day mexico, texas, parts of california and also move down into southern centralo america (Guatamala/panama...). They also get the plague after contact with European civs but can rearm quicker because they have greater production power then the inca. they are rarely a threat to any civ they come into direct contact with though and very occasionally get attacked by the spanish. They are usually christian too. Overall, the aztecs turn out to be a civ who others need to be wary of but do not pose a major threat.

America - The Americans usually get at least one English city from their spawn (Usually New York), and very quickly expand in size and score until they are close to the power of the European civs. The Americans have a lot of room to expand into but never use all of it, usually stopping at the rockies. I have never seen an a.i america found Los Angeles. The Americans usually adopt christianity or have the free religion civic. In the modern age, the United States usually becomes a major power (but not always, it even collapsed a few times.) The Americans are usually quite content to stay within their borders as long as a colonial power does not decide to settle in an area they lay claim to.


whew, that was a long post...
I think I have writers cramp :s
time for a lay down.
I might add some other things later but that's pretty much how it turns out im my games.

EDIT: i started this before fearuin...

Well, I forgot to say that I'm still playing old Vanilla version 1.86. However, I feel from your post, flaming iles, that Warlords it's a lot more historical than Vanilla. I thought, from the previous versions, that Warlords was doomed, with civs collapsing easily. But now I see things turning out against Vanilla... Maybe it's time to chenge to Warlords! I'll give a try to the new Vanilla version, anyway.

The last times I was starting to have my doubts on RFC due to the collapsing of half of the world by industrial era, but it seems that only happens in Vanilla, now.

Am I right? C'mon, Vanilla players, tell me if I just was unlucky, or this happens to you also!

I rarely see egypt at all (I mostly play as the later civs)

NO! Most civs stay in the game. (i think too many) very few collaspe.

Well when I play I see quite a few collapses sometimes, but I like that the are plenty of civs still around!

I almost never see anyone collapse anymore. I had to take all but 2 of India's 9 cities before they collapsed!

But in general, and hopefully in brief:

Egypt: never does well unless it founds Judaism (I saw it happen last game!), which makes them a middling power. Often conquered by Arabia.

Babylon: Invariably #1. Until the rest of the Middle East spawns, when they invariably die. I haven't seen them survive in any recent version, which is good.

India: Never does anything interesting beyond founding Hinduism and Buddhism. Proceeds to remain exactly the same for the rest of the game.

China: Same as everyone else says--either collapses, or one of the top 5.

Greece: I haven't seen Greece do well in a long time, although they do found Xianity a lot, which I like. They do worse if they found Sparta. But regardless they never do well.

Persia: expands to fill the worthless arid plain between Babylon and India, sometimes conquers half of Babylon, always ends up conquered or stifled by Arabia. Survives 50/50 but never does well. :(

Carthage: either gets conquered by the Romans or ruined/conquered by barbs/natives/Spanish. If it survives, which sometimes it does, I have seen it become a top 7 or so power. In fact, in Congresses, I've seen it get Cadiz back from Spain and be one of the richest and most advanced civs around!

Rome: Never has more than two cities outside of Italy, sometimes one around Budapest and sometimes Carthago. I haven't seen them do well in a long time.. except when I play as them!

Japan: Remains isolated and won't trade with anyone. Hence, I have never seen Japan do well. I have also never seen it die. They colonize the Asian islands and sometimes Australia if England doesn't first. In my current game as them, I've conquered all of China and the good parts of India (nice job trading me elephants, Indians)!

Vikings: Usually a top 5 civ, especially if they hold onto Scotland and Northumbria. Doesn't settle anywhere meaningful and never conquers much land outside of Scandinavia, though. I'd like to see them being more violent.

Arabia: Either becomes the largest landowner outside of China; controls Egypt and the Middle East and sometimes Persia (in which case they are greatly to be feared!), approximating the historical Arab Golden Age minus Carthage and Spain. OR, remains confined to Arab peninsula and never goes anywhere. The two are about 50/50. Hates everyone and so falls behind in tech.

Spain: Colonizes useless islands, eventually the Caribbean, and sometimes S. America. Never N. America, in my experience. They tend to do poorly, especially if Carthage does well.

France: Same, colonizes a bit better than Spain, usually goes to Judaism for some reason. Never worth worrying about.

England: great colonial empire, I haven't played far enough (computer too slow) to see if they do anything well with it.

Germany: usually conquers half of France, Russia, and/or Rome. Hence does pretty well but a tech leader they are not. Granted I have never seen them industrial because of my computer :(

Russia: gets eaten alive by Germans, Arabs, or sometimes Persians, but rarely falls. Instead they just become a backwoods nation with no ports, and are forgotten.

Turks: Previously to new version, they have done very poorly. Need more playtime to decide how it works now.

Mali: worthless, but sells you techs when no one else will, and charges you for it.
Inca: worthless. Never dies, never does anything.
Aztecs: worthless. Never does anything, sometimes dies.

Mongols: I have never seen Mongolia become a worthwhile power on its own. Sometimes I use the WB to set them to war with China and then they do better, but usually they become, like Russia, a backwoods, forgotten civ.

America: Does well for the 20 or so turns before my computer files papers against me for abuse

Ultimately I rarely see any one civ do particularly well, unless it is mine. The world enters a perpetual stalemate where few civs die, most languish, and some few thrive internally but do not expand as much as I would like.

Civs most likely to die, in order: Babylon, Carthage, Egypt, China, Persia, Greece.


P.S. 100th post! Only took me five years.

Ultimately I rarely see any one civ do particularly well, unless it is mine. The world enters a perpetual stalemate where few civs die, most languish, and some few thrive internally but do not expand as much as I would like.

Civs most likely to die, in order: Babylon, Carthage, Egypt, China, Persia, Greece.


P.S. 100th post! Only took me five years.

What difficulty level are you playing? For some time, I've seen this situation to happen, until I decided to play on Monarch (it was a lot of versions ago, though). Then, there's a little more action, and also all civs tend to make it better (except the ones that fall, of course). I've also noticed that, the higher level you play, the more civs fall. Monarch level it's my favourite, because it's neither a complete disaster (if everybody falls, difficulty, instead of rising, drops completely) and neither a perpetual stalemate, as you show. It seems like this mod it's difficult for the AI to play well... :confused:

wow thank you! These posts will go into a strategy guide!


I've also noticed that, the higher level you play, the more civs fall.

This is the prove I was waiting for. Thanks.

edit: actually in my Emperor games tests I'm not seeing this apocalypse you described

What difficulty level are you playing?

Monarch, of course! Maybe I just haven't played enough games lately and those I have were skewed towards the doing poorly end of the spectrum. Alternatively I do so well that everyone else fails! :king: :lol:

edit: actually in my Emperor games tests I'm not seeing this apocalypse you described

Well, it's just a theory, but it seems to me that in Vanilla there are more collapses.

However, I have to say: I am a little bit warmonger, and political manipulator much of the time. Maybe this is what mades my games kind of unstabilized for the AI... In fact, I usually ask other civs to change their civics or SR by de force; this only lasts for a while, they usually change back again to their favourite civics or other SR, so I ask again, etc. I also usually try to engage civs in war, for my benefit. If those civs ask others to declare war, change civics, etc. The result is a situation of great unstability in the entire world, due to frequent civic and religion change, as well as unhappiness due to war weariness, plus unstability caused by losing of units in those interested wars.

After all, I consider that stability it's a very good weapon, if you know how to use it. Make your enemies unstable and your allies stable it's an important part of any strategy on RFC!

I find that more civs collapse on viceroy than monarch and they seem to tough it out better on emperor... Now, I haven't played a game on viceroy in a long while, so it may not be true anymore... I attribue this to the more focused ai on emperor.

More civs are going to collpase on vanilla because there are much more barbarians... instead of independents that never attack, the ai is losing cities to barbarian raids... my last game on vanilla had rome, egypt, greece, babylon, and persia and china on/off falling to barbarians.

I prefer warlords. Even though some of the civs that SHOULD collapse stay around longer, at least I don't feel like the only one playing. Persia collapses every game, babylon too, because of the barbs and arabia. China, if no great wall (like someone said), sucumbs to the barbs also. I think there should be a reason/factor to make rome and greece more prone to collapse around their historical fall from power...

I prefer warlords. Even though some of the civs that SHOULD collapse stay around longer, at least I don't feel like the only one playing. Persia collapses every game, babylon too, because of the barbs and arabia. China, if no great wall (like someone said), sucumbs to the barbs also. I think there should be a reason/factor to make rome and greece more prone to collapse around their historical fall from power...

Yes, I hate that feeling of being the last man standing. About the Greek and Rome collapse, as I said, there's no problem. They collapse 100% of the times in Vanilla.

An independent civ built The Great Wall once. It made me laugh.

In Vanilla, the barbs build the Piramids and/or Stonehenge, from time to time. :)

Playing as the Vikings in Rhye's newest version, I was exploring Europe with an axeman. I came upon the Greeks, who had recently lost Byzantium to the barbarians. The city had revolted because of Greece's semi-high culture, and there was only one weakened axeman inside. I tool the city of Byzantium (and managed to keep it) as the Vikings. =D

God, where do I start?

America is always strong. Getting the continent all by themselves is the reason for their success.

England is always up there in the score. They're always a major power. The usually colonize South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, East US, and Canada.

France is similar to England. However, if the Romans do not collapse then the French are doomed to obscurity. Because of their close borders, they end up fierce enemies; Rome usually wins. They usually colonize the Brazilian area of South America and always Madagascar.

Spain is the same as England; not like France They usually colonize the Argentina area of South America.

Germany...same as England. They're very random about who they colonize.

Vikings are an obscure civilization. They usually pick up Iceland and just the slight eastern tip of Canada. The Newfoundland area.

Russia. Just wow. Their territory usually only covers just the East of what modern Russia does now. But holy crap are they aggressive and an industrial powerhouse.

This section is for China and Mongolia. China is always doomed. If they can however, pick up the Great Wall they'll actually last until the Mongols arrive. When the Mongols arrive their destiny is already chosen. If China has already collapsed due to barbarians, the Mongols will end up being a huge empire which usually romps through Persia, Turkey, and the Arabians. They'll have a huge military production capacity rivaling the Russians. If China is still around and the Mongols do nothing, they will both be obscure nations the rest of the game.

The Japanese are always obscure; they sometimes colonize Indonesia.

The Babylonians are a huge power in the ancient times; they will meet their doom to the rising Persian and Turkish civilizations.

Persia is similar to Babylon. Strong until the Turks arrive.

The Arabians lands are a training ground for the Ottomans.

The Ottomans are always destined for greatness. They forge a huge empire and a huge military. They usually get done in by the Russians when they eventually piss Stalin off.

India is either obscure or ends up collapsing on its own and becoming the land of Independents.

Rome is always strong in the hay day which almost ALWAYS conquer Carthage after spawning. With the arrival of France, Spain, and Germany, the Roman empire either collapses or stays contained to the modern borders of Italy.

Aztecs and Incas either get destroyed or are always vassalized. They are always technologically backwards.

And...that's it I guess.

That sounds pretty much like the real world =P

A few oddities, but accurate.

The Japanese are always obscure; they sometimes colonize Indonesia.

You should have seen them in the game I had recently in v140. The had the Korean peninsula, Indonesia, Malaysia and had massive culture. They even had 2/3 of their UHV conditions met! And this was the AI!

I was just lucky that they never met the final condition!

Long live the Greater East Asian Empire!

:lol:

IN my games on Vanilla, Japan it's always a powerful civ. Half of the times, ends conquering entire China, and rivalizing with Persia for central Asia. On recent versions this happens less often, though.

In my Vanilla games, the Mongols are usually a backwards civilization, but in my last game as England on Emperor, they managed to conquer China and become quie powerful. Good job, Gengis and Kublai!

You should have seen them in the game I had recently in v140. The had the Korean peninsula, Indonesia, Malaysia and had massive culture. They even had 2/3 of their UHV conditions met! And this was the AI!

I was just lucky that they never met the final condition!

Long live the Greater East Asian Empire!

:lol:

In a vanilla game I had they colonised indonesia, malaysia, parts of australia and when I crossed the rockies (playing as america) I was most suprised to find a thriving Japanese California, and even more suprised in the next turn when they won their historical victory. :lol:

Yeah, Warlords RFC and Vanilla RFC are worlds apart.

Yes, it seems like that.