Hola, it seems to me that the high impact of GNP on stability makes a specialist economy (farms, great people etc.) nearly impossible.

At the moment I'm playing as India and am way in the lead scorewise - everything going according to my plan, but am experiencing a series of devastating and unreasonable secessions. Even though I've kept a steady expansion, focusing more on religion/culture/population than on #of cities, and have a rock solid economy through shrines and great people, the F2 advisor shows only 1 star on economy (the other 4, 4, 3, 2 I believe - not in that order). As is usual in these kinds of games my GNP is around 0, as working cottages etc. is counterproductive compared to the advantages of specialists, pacifism, representation etc.

So, here I am forced to abandon a very entertaing game simply because it's become unplayable through lack of support stabilitywise for this type of approach - which is quite common in regular civ as well as other mods. Very dissapointing.

I know there are some measures one can take to improve stability, but it's simply to litle to late, since there is hardly any way to change back to a "commerce based economy" this late in the game - so the massive GNP penalty will stick throughout the game.

Otherwise in many ways a great mod; I just hope you will take notice of this and perhaps implement som changes for the next version. Also I would like to hear if anyone in a similar situation have any advise on how to deal with this problem - or if anyone have had any success running a specialist economy at all? At the present I'm actually even interested in any hacks / WEditor changes I could perform, as if not I'll simply just ditch the whole game (if not mod) and scout around for another..

I play a SE, and never has this kind of problem ( but i never play with a early civ like India, i just play with Medieval ones ).

But if is happing what you said, this should be changed :) the game needs to be open to all the Economy/Gameplay styles ( even Production Economy hehehhe xD ).

And the gross national product doesn't need to have such an impact early on game. Maybe after Economics...

Hmm, that seems like it could be somewhat of an issue.

I always play with a commerce economy so I never noticed the issue.

i've tweaked the formula a bit

i've tweaked the formula a bit

Excellent. Would you mind giving some details? Also, any idea how I could achieve a similar effect in my current game (if at all possible)?

Caste Society is rather too dominate in this mod as it certainly is an essential part of quickly getting your tech up with most starts. Perhaps tweaking that column of civics so that more are really worth using.

I don't think that it needs to be tweaked, slavery is very powerful as well. Maybe serfdom should be made more powerful, but the rest are fine.

Excellent. Would you mind giving some details? Also, any idea how I could achieve a similar effect in my current game (if at all possible)?

I've just assigned more weight to hammers in the stability GNP formula.
I've made other changes as well but they aren't related

Caste Society is rather too dominate in this mod as it certainly is an essential part of quickly getting your tech up with most starts. Perhaps tweaking that column of civics so that more are really worth using.

the last time I proposed a civic tweak it ended up in a 20 pages long discussion. I'm scared of doing that again

I agree that the civics don't need to be changed. Slavery is indeed very powerful, especially for conquerors and America. I find serfdom is pretty nice too, if only right after a civ spawns. Me not being able to remember the last two in the category, however, should show how useful those are. :lol:

Emancipation and Caste System I believe... =P

Slavery = Okay
Caste System = Okay
Emancipantion = Okay
Serfdom = Not Okay :D maybe if you put +1:commerce: to Farms, it will be good.

I agree on +1 on farms, too

I happen to find Serfdom quite useful because of the faster worker speed. I always use it when I play Germany or Russia. But I agree that it's only useful for large empires and not for small nations.

Please keep this thread on SE, GNP and stability - if anyone has anything more to add that is :)

I'm well ahead of everyone else -- richest, highest score, biggest pop. and land area by far, though slightly behind leaders in tech.

Since Japanese cities are largely on the coast, it's important to farm as much grassland as possible; and the remaining tiles are often water (which can't be cottaged), or are hills that yield precious hammers.

And I have a negative GNP. I'm afraid to switch to Free Market, as I don't want to trigger a great depression and sink my stability.

I love the mod otherwise! The endgame, which used to get tedious, is still as fun as the early part.

is this still an issue with v193/143?

I haven't tried the new update. Can I apply it and continue to play the same save?

Your mod rocks, if I didn't say so before.

uhm...it depends.
It might work, but your stability won't change, as it's a parameter that grows with time