Even when I win domination victroies and get the requisite insane land area along the way, they never show up on my coastlines. Ever.

In addition to being rare, they don't give good yields, are on a coastal city by definition, and don't do anything important strategically.

AND THEY GO OBSOLETE! YAY!

Why are they even in the game?

Why they're in the game? So when you do get them, you can use them. Why do we have marble and stone when Marble is not really used in the Industrial Era and would be worthless? What about stone? It's all about placement and uses at that time.

Besides, I think Whales give out food and health bonuses until they go obsolete

I agree, it seems kind of wierd that pretty much the only happiness recourse or whatever that appears later in the game, is also one of the only ones that goes obsolete later as well, seems kind of pointless. Also, the actual +food for the city isnt even that good, its almost pointless to get. Im pretty sure it only pops up in the ocean as well, not the coast, so you actually have to go out of your way to get it in your fat cross... somthing no one will ever really do.

Whales are useful. They increase production and commerce even after obsolescence and they give 1+ happiness until Combustion

Why they're in the game? So when you do get them, you can use them. Why do we have marble and stone when Marble is not really used in the Industrial Era and would be worthless? What about stone? It's all about placement and uses at that time.

Besides, I think Whales give out food and health bonuses until they go obsolete

Those strategic resources you mentioned might become crap after a while, but they have a window of usefulness.

Whales are trash throughout the whole game.

I get to use whales so rarely that it's always a pleasant surprise to find the odd game when they make an appearance. Sometimes they appear close to little isolated 2-3 tile islands which makes colonizing more appealing.

Why whales, ivory, furs etc go obsolescent I don't know. AFAIK things like elephant tusks and whale meat are still enjoy by many people alive today. Maybe these resources should only be made obsolete by environmentalism, i.e. when majority opinion and public taste comes to condemn the harvesting of such resources.

I have wondered the same thing about whales. PLus, you can't really compare whales to marble because marble can be the deciding factor on if you get the Oracle, the Parthenon, etc. Whales dont do squat. As for the +1 :) or the +1 :health: I would rather have a resource that gives that bonus and doesn't go obsolete. (whichever it is I rarely worry about getting them.) As whale tiles don't yield anything spectacular - more like a hodge podge mix of things.

I think it would actually be cool if the economic aspect of resources was handled better and things like furs and whales had a window of scarcity or a 'popular period'. Say like in Medeival-Renessaince Cities begin to demand a resource such as whales, or even dye. The RNG could decide what resource. SO, in 1325 AD a pop-up box comes in saying:
"A new style of fashion has swept your empire! Dye is desperatley needed in your empire to accomodate the requests of your citizens."
Or they might need whales, or furs, etc. Certain ones would give certain advantages. The dye one would give each city an additional +1 or 2 CPT. Gems could be for fine jewelry and yield +1 GPT in your cities. Plus, you could have "Let them eat cake option." But I would say this should yield a +1 :mad: face. Thus it would be in your best interest to meet the demands of your people. Plus, it would pay off.

I've never had the option to build a Whaling Boat, because on the few occasions when I have seen Whales they are just beyond my cultural border until, with the passage of time, my nearest city passes the 500-culture mark several turns after Whales have gone obsolete. Of course I could, theoretically, have built a city on an icefield specifically to get the Whale, but, for so little benefit for a limited time, why bother ?

But I do like the animation.

Why whales, ivory, furs etc go obsolescent I don't know. AFAIK things like elephant tusks and whale meat are still enjoy by many people alive today. Maybe these resources should only be made obsolete by environmentalism, i.e. when majority opinion and public taste comes to condemn the harvesting of such resources.

They're made obsolete ( better & cheaper alternatives) by things like plastics & aquaculture. I think the graphics add a lot to the game.

I like your take on evironmentalism. That civic needs more work. Suppose once you adopted Environmentalism you got happiness and tourism from those special resources, your other special food resources would produce extra health and a premium price on export, &/ or become the preferred source ( in other words, other nations would cancel their fish deals so they could buy from you instead). Of course, any nation that chopped forrest or jungle would be boycotted by your civ.

I've never had the option to build a Whaling Boat ...

But I do like the animation.

actually, the whales are a LOT cuter when they're not confined by whaling boats. i had some today that looked so happy and carefree. then i got optics, and got greedy for a happy face, and sent out my little boat, and i actually felt guilty cuz they looked all cramped in that little net.

i know you'll think i'm kidding, but i was like dang, i should have left them free *giggle*. they looks soooooo cute up until then. but you know, my citizens were complaining. what's a ruler to do?

Whales aren't caught by nets (at least, not on purpose). The graphic should be of a whale thrashing about with a couple harpoons in it. Or maybe showing the whaling ship "rendering" the whale into its various useful components. I'm guessing you'd like those graphics even less. ;)

Whales are almost never in the fat cross of any of my cities, and they usually show up in the arctic portions of the map, where I don't found cities even if I can pay maintenance. As such, more often than not, I don't hook up whales.

In the game I started last night, my third city had a whale in its bfc. I did not place the city to get the whale. I was more concerned with the copper and wheat that were also present.

While we're grousing about whales, let's look at reality about food resources in general. Clams and crabs are way over-represented, while a very prevalent food stock - poultry - is not represented at all.

This has lead to a complete absence of feather pillows in the game, explaining the unfriendly nature of Montezuma and others. Believe me, crushed clam and crab shells are no substitute for fluffy feathers!

I'm guessing you'd like those graphics even less. ;)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this was during a team game with hubby, so when he was taking longer on his turn i'd zoom in to admire the graphics and silly things. i'd never noticed the crabs up close. once they're netted, one seems to be sitting there happy, eating, minding his own business. the other one is like "let me out of here!!! let me out of here!!!"

it was fun, i haven't zoomed in on them in so long, i'd forgotten all those details. netting the whales was a rare thing for me. the game was on quick speed btw; my cultural borders reached the tile far earlier than they ever would on my usual epic games.

Because Shamu's head looks good on my palace throne room wall. It also goes well with the Persian rug (made from Cyrus' beard).

Whales in Civ II rocked, in Civ IV they suck, this must be corrected :D

Whales in Civ II rocked, in Civ IV they suck, this must be corrected :D
Yeah, they should also allow you to create a new unit: Moby Dick. These would recieve bonuses for attacking caravels and galleons, but unfortunately, could not be upgraded.

I dunno.... I've seen AI civs get whales. But they are a lot more willing to build in the snowy wastes than am I.

I have wondered the same thing about whales. PLus, you can't really compare whales to marble because marble can be the deciding factor on if you get the Oracle, the Parthenon, etc. Whales dont do squat. As for the +1 :) or the +1 :health: I would rather have a resource that gives that bonus and doesn't go obsolete. (whichever it is I rarely worry about getting them.) As whale tiles don't yield anything spectacular - more like a hodge podge mix of things.

I think it would actually be cool if the economic aspect of resources was handled better and things like furs and whales had a window of scarcity or a 'popular period'. Say like in Medeival-Renessaince Cities begin to demand a resource such as whales, or even dye. The RNG could decide what resource. SO, in 1325 AD a pop-up box comes in saying:
"A new style of fashion has swept your empire! Dye is desperatley needed in your empire to accomodate the requests of your citizens."
Or they might need whales, or furs, etc. Certain ones would give certain advantages. The dye one would give each city an additional +1 or 2 CPT. Gems could be for fine jewelry and yield +1 GPT in your cities. Plus, you could have "Let them eat cake option." But I would say this should yield a +1 :mad: face. Thus it would be in your best interest to meet the demands of your people. Plus, it would pay off.


And in that system, I would like to see you have the ability to outbid a rival civ for a resource. Right now, if a civ is trading all of its excess resources you can't do anything but wait. You should have the chance to outbid for a critical resource.

I've gotten whales exactly twice, and both times they were acquired the same way: Enemy coastal capitals - you know, the ones with 5 or more seafood resources? - had a whale in their fat X. As it was a land based attack, none of the water tiles were pillaged. Both times I certainly enjoyed the extra 1 population added to the cap in every city I had.
Regarding them becoming obsolete, and this is more of a "piece of mind" thing than anything else: I like to think of hit singles, musicals, and movies, combined with the Eiffel Tower, as replacing fur, ivory, and whales.

AFAIK things like elephant tusks and whale meat are still enjoy by many people alive today

I think the designers are trying to tell us something.

Just like to say i got whales in my last game :D

They were near the coast so it took a few culture expansions then they were within range. The happiness they created was very usefull so when you can get them they are very important i guess.

I even managed to trade them later on when they were useless to me, i guess they were still usefull to another backwards civilization which hadnt discovered their obselesence (sp) sorry lazy cant be bothered to look how to spell it...

In a recent game I finally got them. I immediately remembered making this topic upon doing so.

It is 9 months old.

Wow.

In a recent game I finally got them. I immediately remembered making this topic upon doing so.

It is 9 months old.

Wow.

It took you nine whole months of playing to get a source of whales? :lol:

(I've gotten whales in my capital's fat cross once. :crazyeye: )

I've just gotten them for the first time. Previously the option was there, but the rest of the BFC would be filled with Ice and Tundra, and I didn't want the Whales THAT badly. This game the terrain isn't too bad, and the city holds the single neck of land that unites two continents, so I was going to build there anyway. Having Whales and Iron is a nice bonus for a frontier city I have to build for defense.

Oh, I've had Vanilla for a year now, and Warlords for about three months.

About the only way I get them is with the game editor. I'm much less likely than the comp to build on 1-2 square islands or snowy wastes, so don't really encounter them much.


The RNG could decide what resource. SO, in 1325 AD a pop-up box comes in saying:
"A new style of fashion has swept your empire! Dye is desperatley needed in your empire to accomodate the requests of your citizens."

Honestly, I'm hoping this concept can be worked in and expanded huge with the new 'random events generator'. Maybe missions to get access to certain materials one way (trade/expansion) or another within a certain time frame. Maybe have it influenced by time period and also proximity to civs that have said resource. AKA, I can imagine the Greeks REALLY wanting some dyes to pretty up their boring Toga's once seeing the elegant Persians with all their colorful dresses. Add in a temporary (but significant) period of unhappiness or happiness depending on success/failure.

Honestly, there seems like there's ALOT that can be done with this events generator. Which I think is the option with BY FAR the most potential from BtS. The rest are really minor alterations or retreads (corporations are prettied up religions really) Ok, so the espionage is heavily revamped too, but I've always been disinterested/ambivalent towards that aspect of the game.

Sadly taking full advantage of the events generator will probably take the modders much longer than coding new BtS updates. (which they have tons of practice on)

Rather than have them going obsolete, perhaps you could get culture and commerce from replacing the boats with eco-tourism.