I just played through a game as Rome on version 190, in which I was trying not as much to get a UHV but more to see if I could keep the rise of the Western European nations (Spain, France, Germany, and England) from ever happening and allowing the Western Roman Empire to last right up until the present. Basically, here's what happened during the course of gameplay that I feel reflects on the new version of the mod:


The plague was basically not a factor at all. I'm fairly sure I never contracted it, mostly because I whipped down the populations of all my cities at the first sign of an outbreak elsewhere.
I learned firsthand the cost of unit maintenance: Although I managed to destroy Germany, France, and Spain within two turns of their spawning and kept England from ever becoming a colonial power, the maintenance an army of about 40 praetorians crippled my economy and research.
Even though I conquered cities with much greater technological prowess than myself, I got absolutely no benefit scientifically. I would suggest a feature that I know SevoMod has be added to RFC, where you get a certain number of beakers towards technologies you don't have when you conquer cities from civs that do. It got to the point where I controlled five civilizations but was still using longbowmen and knights into the 19th century and couldn't increase by research above 20% without going in the red.
I think this might have been a bug that Rhye has fixed since I downloaded this, but whenever civs would rise up and try to take cities, I would agree to the flip but they would always stay Roman. It happened both with France and Spain.


Well, that's pretty much it. :)

Yep, the last one is a game-breaking bug, or I'd call it that anyway. Let's hope for a new version soon!

And there's nothing wrong with a massive, backwards empire ruling the world. Do what you have to do. :)

Yep, the last one is a game-breaking bug, or I'd call it that anyway. Let's hope for a new version soon!

And there's nothing wrong with a massive, backwards empire ruling the world. Do what you have to do. :)

Lol, it just doesn't make sense how you can a city like Madrid, Berlin, and London (London was pretty well developed by this point, because it was about 200 years after their founding before I had the troops to take all of England) and still stay completely ignorant of all the knowledge they had one turn earlier. I think such an addition would help the mod be more historically accurate as well... after all, the big turning point in the Punic Wars was the Romans finding a beached Carthaginian warship and copying it.

Lol, it just doesn't make sense how you can a city like Madrid, Berlin, and London (London was pretty well developed by this point, because it was about 200 years after their founding before I had the troops to take all of England) and still stay completely ignorant of all the knowledge they had one turn earlier. I think such an addition would help the mod be more historically accurate as well... after all, the big turning point in the Punic Wars was the Romans finding a beached Carthaginian warship and copying it.

As far as engineering works are concerned, copying can only go so far. We'll keep with your example of Rome. Why is it that after the fall of Rome, the Germans didn't adopt the bevy of philosophical and engineering feats that the Romans had accomplished? They tried, but even Charlemagne was a pale comparison in terms of advancement.

I think the major problem is the intellectual gulf. If you don't understand basic Algebra, how do you expect to adopt an Arch? Sure, Rome adopted that ship design. But they had Roman scholars doing it, not some barbarian. I think it would be more realistic to limit the techs you can get from city takeover by the age you're in.

As far as engineering works are concerned, copying can only go so far. We'll keep with your example of Rome. Why is it that after the fall of Rome, the Germans didn't adopt the bevy of philosophical and engineering feats that the Romans had accomplished? They tried, but even Charlemagne was a pale comparison in terms of advancement.

I think the major problem is the intellectual gulf. If you don't understand basic Algebra, how do you expect to adopt an Arch? Sure, Rome adopted that ship design. But they had Roman scholars doing it, not some barbarian. I think it would be more realistic to limit the techs you can get from city takeover by the age you're in.

That is a very good counter-example, but it wasn't as if there was a humongous gap in the intellectual feats of Rome (in this case) and the techs that the more modern European civs start out with. For example, I was at the point where I could actually research feudalism, compass, etc. myself (indicating that, were this reality, these concepts would have actually been at least somewhat within the scope of understanding of Roman scientists). I'm pretty sure how the SevoMod feature works is that it first gives you beakers towards archaic techs (for example, if you've bypassed researching meditation and you're well within the classical era, that's what you'll get) and then it goes to whatever technology you're closest to. It's not as if some backwards civ would conquer a border outpost and then propel forward an age's worth of techs.

Whatever the technical details, I think acquiring a tech with city capture is a wonderful idea... Maybe it can be related to the science output of the city captured?

I'm pretty sure how the SevoMod feature works is that it first gives you beakers towards archaic techs (for example, if you've bypassed researching meditation and you're well within the classical era, that's what you'll get) and then it goes to whatever technology you're closest to. It's not as if some backwards civ would conquer a border outpost and then propel forward an age's worth of techs.

The reason I'm opposed is that it's easy to exploit. Take a city, raize it, declare peace. The AI will rebuild it in 10 turns so you can declare war again and raize it. Repeat that until you get all the techs you wanted, then you wipe them out. But I do agree that there should be some kind of forceful acquisition of knowledge. Dare I say a return of the diplomat unit?

The reason I'm opposed is that it's easy to exploit. Take a city, raize it, declare peace. The AI will rebuild it in 10 turns so you can declare war again and raize it. Repeat that until you get all the techs you wanted, then you wipe them out. But I do agree that there should be some kind of forceful acquisition of knowledge. Dare I say a return of the diplomat unit?

Actually, that could be very easily averted with something like what sdLeo said above: How many beakers towards any tech you get upon city capture should be related to the city's size, scientific output, and possibly even age. For example, if you declare war on Germany and take Berlin in 1500 AD, you should get some serious knowledge from that because the city is 5500 years old and is probably a major population center and research city (if not the biggest). On the other hand, if you raze it and then take it again ten turns later, the city might not even be past size 1 or 2, would have little or no improvements, and you would get next to nothing.

As far as engineering works are concerned, copying can only go so far. We'll keep with your example of Rome. Why is it that after the fall of Rome, the Germans didn't adopt the bevy of philosophical and engineering feats that the Romans had accomplished? They tried, but even Charlemagne was a pale comparison in terms of advancement.

I think the major problem is the intellectual gulf. If you don't understand basic Algebra, how do you expect to adopt an Arch? Sure, Rome adopted that ship design. But they had Roman scholars doing it, not some barbarian. I think it would be more realistic to limit the techs you can get from city takeover by the age you're in.

I agree with you, but I think your example isn't that great. The fact that much of the Roman's engineering feets were just not useful to the Germans should be mentioned, too. They did not need or want aquaeducts, arenas, thermae. And Ravenna shows that not all Roman engineering feats were lost in a single day.
About the philosophical feats: large parts of that were more Greek than Roman and most of them were already outdated in the migration period. The new Christian church(es) had little to no interest in the old philosophical feats. Or why is it that the Great Library of Alexandria burned down or the Platonic Academy was closed by a Byzantine emperor?

Knowledge from conquered cities! I want this in RFC! :D

About the philosophical feats: large parts of that were more Greek than Roman and most of them were already outdated in the migration period.

See, the thing that made Rome strong wasn't that they were necessarily the most enlightened people, but they were intelligent enough to adopt a wide array of technologies from other cultures. Perhaps we should make Rome's UP "win a tech on city capture" and start them off with 3-4 fewer techs?

Win a tech is too much. Rome needs to win beakers, like 20~25% of the beaker of a Tech. This way you can run at :science:0% conquer everyone and not bankrupt (just like real life), but you fall when you stop to conquer.

Far better than the 4xRoads... that is horrible =\

I agree with Edugeon. Maybe smth like: Pop (of captured city)^2*50*Era beakers?

I think the main reason to not give a tech bonus for conquering cities is simply one of balance. Civ already has quite a huge 'snowball effect', and giving the large conquering empires even more bonuses would not make anything better.

If conquered civ haven't got more techs than you you wouldn't get it (if you aren't playing as a Rome). BTW: beakers should be counted i.e. like: beakers/(0,5+0,5*number of cities). Great empires would be in trouble without good cities ;)

I think the main reason to not give a tech bonus for conquering cities is simply one of balance. Civ already has quite a huge 'snowball effect', and giving the large conquering empires even more bonuses would not make anything better.

Well, it wouldn't be quite as much an advantage as it was an equalizer; for example, a conquering civs which was technologically backwards would gain some understanding of a technology from the area they just conquered. In doing that, they're catching up to par, not going any farther ahead.

Also, I don't think it would be a good to make this only a Roman ability; it would deny history. After all, it was by annexing Persia that a civilization like the Arabs transformed from desert traders to the cultural center of the world in a hardly a century's time. In addition, the roads power for the Romans is much more historically accurate, because the efficiency and reliability of their transportation is what allowed them to control and administer the amount of territory they did.

You know, not only do I think there should be a transfer of beakers upon conquest of an important city, as described by Edungeon, Luko and Biggamer and me above, but the more I think of it, an open borders agreement with a scientifically more advanced civ should allow some beakers to flow through as well, as tech transfer between neighbours DOES happen IRL. Now, as to how it's done and who's gonna do it, beats me...

You know, not only do I think there should be a transfer of beakers upon conquest of an important city, as described by Edungeon, Luko and Biggamer and me above, but the more I think of it, an open borders agreement with a scientifically more advanced civ should allow some beakers to flow through as well, as tech transfer between neighbours DOES happen IRL. Now, as to how it's done and who's gonna do it, beats me...

Actually, I'm pretty sure Sevo has that in his mod too...