Please post your proposals for defining the provinces here. The proposal that disorganizer is about to post is the official opinion of the domestic department.

i will first put a raw-picture of the surroundig area here. for downloading and editing

Now the DDA-Proposal #1:
Ex-America is cut in half to create 2 provinces, surrounded by mountains. Istar stays as is, from the line Fox-Nest->Mountains->North. Another province will be appended to the south of Istar. The Egyptian Countries will be split on the south side of the Inland-Sea to create another province.

now to my private proposal:

see post below...

...but Istar looks a wee bit small. What are we going to do with all those mtns. and desert? And how about, if we do keep it that small, calling it the Phoenatican Capital Province or something like that (I don't really like Istar that much)....

i like the 2nd proposal! :goodjob:

i put my proposal in a bigger context now... here is the result:

i posted it on a web-site in paint-shop pro format with layers for the map, names and the border here:
http://home.dinx.de/disorganizer/provinces.psp

general:
tried to base provinces on "valeys" and other geographical landmarks on the map. i threw away any city borders for this!

Istar:
our first province
reaches from fox-nest along the southern mountain range to the inland sea. then north along the eastern mountain range.

Greater Cormyr:
out second province
located east of Istar, this province covers the american valey and the mountain range to the east of it + the sea-cities east of the mountains. the southern border is the mountain range north of the inland sea

???:
yet to be named provinces
also located in valeys. i tried to share seas and oceans between provinces as much as i could.

I like this second proposal. I'm very much in favor of following terrain features as it makes a natural looking province. This reminds me of the messed up county lines we have here in the Atlanta area. ;)

The first proposal is based, I think, on the idea that we should have no more than 5 cities per province. If this is not the case, I like the second proposal much more.

Very good Disorganizer. I like the map last edited 04/24 at 0231. The Greater Cormyr may be a little too big. Will you be putting it on a tile for tile border map? Or would you like some help doing that? If you need help, let me know.

1.) i think greater cormyr is ok this way because there is so much desert in the middle and the "greater" must come to its some from somewhere... ;-)

2.) it would be nice if someone else could continue the fine-tuning of the map, as im going on vacation and will be buisy doing census and registration also... so if you like you can continue the map (but maybe we should find a professional mapmaker ;-) )
thats why i put the link to the original (1.3mb) paint-shop pro file (.psp) in the post to let someone else continue work with it. the psp has 3 layers: 1 with the raw map, 1 with the borders, 1 with the province names...

Originally posted by disorganizer
1.) i think greater cormyr is ok this way because there is so much desert in the middle and the "greater" must come to its some from somewhere... ;-)

2.) it would be nice if someone else could continue the fine-tuning of the map, as im going on vacation and will be buisy doing census and registration also... so if you like you can continue the map (but maybe we should find a professional mapmaker ;-) )
thats why i put the link to the original (1.3mb) paint-shop pro file (.psp) in the post to let someone else continue work with it. the psp has 3 layers: 1 with the raw map, 1 with the borders, 1 with the province names...

Istar is the one with the desert in the middle, not Greater Cormyr, which probably is too large. The northern area would make a good 3rd province, though it would contain probably exactly five cities. We could even call it Lesser Cormyr. We could then extend Greater Cormyr a little further south.

wouldnt it be better to extend istar to the south? (i didnt because the governor of istar will also have work as domestic advisor, ->not to overload him). otherwise we maybe end with having 60 citizens, 10 leaders, 10 deputys and 40 governors, which i think doesnt make sense.

Actually, my thought was running the eastern border of GC north through the mountains, putting NY in GC, and putting the coastal cities in with the egyptian province. That's where the desert is. Istar is doing very well here.

BTW, my 20/20 Freeware doesn't want to work with your paint shop pro.

Originally posted by disorganizer
wouldnt it be better to extend istar to the south? (i didnt because the governor of istar will also have work as domestic advisor, ->not to overload him). otherwise we maybe end with having 60 citizens, 10 leaders, 10 deputys and 40 governors, which i think doesnt make sense.

I think your proposal for Istar is fine. It is Cormyr that I am worried about. In this manifestation, it will probably contain around 10 cities.

what's wrong with ten cities? ;)

no that just wouldn't be right i suppose. *sigh*

would it help if i post the raw-map without borders+names as png?

or do you (cyc) want to create the map yourself?

ps:
im also for putting the coastal cities to the egyptian province.

i just had an idea for a 3rd proposal:
only 5 provinces here:
the 2 provinces south of Istar are now one. the egyptian lands are expanded to the east and south. Greater Cormyr stays as it is (because the other border along the mountains just didnt "look" right)...

I think the Egyptian on could be cut in half, looks a little too big.

In this post, I would like to re-enter my original province map, dated 04/16/02, and the revised edition. In the newly revised editon, again, we are looking at provinces that govern 126 land tiles. This is basically equal to 5 independent cities with unobstructed borders and enough room mixed in for a 6th city (albeit scattered). This keeps us with the 5 city limit, but gives us a chance to grow independently. If the Governor decides to build densely-placed cities, it can be done. Pleasantly scattered coastal cities, it can be done.
The land features are pretty varied, with mountains, deserts, and plains. The Governor must use what they have and settle border disputes among themselves. Provinces 4 and 5 still need to be defined, but as the 126 land tile plan can be used perpetually, setting the outer borders will not be a problem (approved by cabinet vote?) Here is the original:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/provinces.jpg

Here is the revised edition. note: when i resized the picture, the orange line along the southern shoreline duplicated. Ignore the second orange line.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Prov1.jpg

Nice work, Cyc!:goodjob: That is a very good proposition, and I think it will have my vote. Anyway, we should give others a couple of days to add any more proposals, and then poll again. I will tentatively set the date for the new poll to be two days after the elections, to make sure it has everyone's full attention.

Here's my suggestion for the provinces.

They are Geographical as you can see, and the natural borders are most often Mountains and Rivers.

:cry: but then..... Cormyr is...... puny....... :cry: :cry:

i guess i can live with that though, with larger provinces i suppose governors have too much power (supreme control of tto many cities = tyrrany) heck, bgovernors would be running the game, i suppose you break our power with smaller provinces.

*sigh* i'll go along with it, not all governors will be as good/merciful as myself lol. ;)

The constitution calls for defining provinces well in advance so I encourage anyone making proposals to include areas well to the south.

An election starts tomorrow - how many govenors do we need to elect?
We need som nominations!!!!!!!!!!!

OK. In response to Donsig's request, I've made some additional maps showing proposed future provinces. Keep in mind that these next 5 maps (showing 6 new Provinces) are not a new proposal. These are just an extension of the proposal on the first page of this thread, in which I show Provinces 1 - 3. Although Donsig spoke of the southern area, these new maps are arranged numerically in the order that I believe our military or culture may aquire land. All provinces are outlined using the 126 land tile plan. All province borders (whether these are approved or not) should beable to be changed with proper support and cabinet vote. Using "the plan" will keep everyone equal as far as real estate goes. With the numerical flow of the provinces, Governors will have appropriate shield production, especially when we relocate the capital or place the Forbidden Palace to the East. It's a very workable plan that can adapt to suggestions and improvements or stand alone as it is.

Edit: Looks like I forgot to resize the maps, but I'm tired and going to bed. Maybe I can put these all on 1 or 2 maps later.

The first map is Province #4
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Eastprovince1.jpg

The second map is Province #5
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Soprovinces.jpg

The 3rd map is Province #6
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Eastprov2.jpg

The 4th map is Province #7
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Greekprov1.jpg

And finally, the 5th map is Provinces #8 & #9
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Romanprov1.jpg

I know I got in on this a little late, but what about, in addition to the natural borders, change the borders according to the city squares. In other words, say we were to have 2 cities close together, but in different provinces, but they're overlapping. We could have the tiles belonging to city 1 in that province, and city 2 in city 2's province.

I cannot see the images attached via image code......


sorry can i see Province 5?

Originally posted by SKILORD
I cannot see the images attached via image code......


sorry can i see Province 5?

Here ya go.

We have captured Tlaxcala (or something like that) from the Aztecs. It is not in any designated province. We should extend the borders of province 6 to include this new territory. (Province 6 would then include Heliopolis, Alexandria and Tlaxcala.)

Originally posted by donsig
We have captured Tlaxcala (or something like that) from the Aztecs. It is not in any designated province. We should extend the borders of province 6 to include this new territory. (Province 6 would then include Heliopolis, Alexandria and Tlaxcala.)
It should be inside one of the defined provinces. All of the territory to our south is defined.

Judging from the maps in this thread, province 6 stops a tile south of Alexandria. Tlaxcala is further south.

Alot of territory to the SW is mapped into provinces but the SE isn't.

Are you looking at different maps Shaitan?

Nope, just didn't realize where Tlaxcala was. Perhaps we should define province 10 now?

Originally posted by Shaitan
Nope, just didn't realize where Tlaxcala was. Perhaps we should define province 10 now?

We could but I still think it would be better to fold Tlaxcala into province #6. We already have to nominate and elect 5 governors, province #10 would make that six! Province #6 would have 2 cities and #10 just 1.

I tend to agree with you but we need to make sure the majority of citizens do as well. Why don't you start a citizen poll to see about support for Prov6 snatching Tlaxcala?

The domestic department is sponsoring a poll concerning the provincial fate of Tlaxcala.

Please vote! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=295172&t=5653#post295172)