The Cultural & Civic Committee
The Cultural & Civic Committee wants to secure cultural development and civic prosperity for all citizens. A counterweight for military citizen groups is needed. The Cultural & Civic Committee is also weary of scientific methods to satisfy the masses.
It is not our intention to obstruct military or scientific development by default though. The Cultural & Civic Committee carefully analyses development in the context of the moment.

As turns go by our empire will grow larger and new civics will become available to us. It will also become possible to construct Wonders of the World and city improvements that will boast our culture. It is the Cultural & Civic Committee's intention to strive for civics that serve all citizens' needs best and to make culture accessible to all.

Forum topics pertaining to this committee will be prefixed with [CCC] in the topic subject. If you wish to be a part of this committee you are invited to enroll by replying.

Members
Hyronymus
Vind2
CivGeneral
fed1943
grant2004
ordinaryguy
Joe Harker

Query: Is this a Legislative Committee or is it a Committee as in political action committee? Because Legislative Committees are supposed to be impartial research organizations.

Excercising my rights as a citzen I shall join this group.

Query: Is this a Legislative Committee or is it a Committee as in political action committee? Because Legislative Committees are supposed to be impartial research organizations.
I think asking the question was a way of answering it, Lockesdonkey :). It is a political action committee, just like the Imperial Guard and the Seers.

Vind2: welcome to the committee :).

I would like to join this committee.

I shall join this group.

Also welcome, ordinaryguy.

I sense we have some work to do when the citizens are tired of using their stone-point arrows and axes.

Also welcome, ordinaryguy.

I sense we have some work to do when the citizens are tired of using their stone-point arrows and axes.

Yah! Swordsman! :mischief: ;) :lol:

Seriously, we need some wonder and cultural buildings. We may need obelisks in border cities if we don't build stonehenge.

Yah! Swordsman! :mischief: ;) :lol:

Seriously, we need some wonder and cultural buildings. We may need obelisks in border cities if we don't build stonehenge.
Take note, that once the calender comes along. The Obelisks (Monuments as I would refer them to since I normally play on Warlords)

Take note, that once the calender comes along. The Obelisks (Monuments as I would refer them to since I normally play on Warlords)
Become obsolete? They do indeed but in between the construction of an obelisk (we play vanilla civ after all :p) and the discovery of Calendar there is quite some time to have profit of obelisks.

Mind you, the more culture your cities have gathered, the further the territory border lies from your cities. If we are declared war by an opponent it is nice to have a "cultural buffer" around your cities. It takes out the speed at which our opponents can penetrate out territory.

Wonders of the World
As we have access to stone I would like to discuss the construction of Stonehenge. Not only does it grant an obelisk if every city for free but it also produces culture itself. Given the hills surrounding our capital and our favoured second city spot (Dave's "Double Gold") production should be high by default. Just imagine the 50% boast when we connect to stone! But our primary focus should be on The Oracle, it would be bad to miss out on a free tech.

Luxuries
In the north our scouts have spotted Ivory. In combination with the Gold, Silver and Silk that would satisfy our people for a long time. I think it's good to aim at controlling the Ivory before an opponent beats us to it.

Civics
Some citizens are afraid of the Slavery civic. Our citizens really want our nation to prosper but they do not wish to become slaves of the elite. They also fear the anarchy that may erupt when our leaders decide to choose slavery as our new civic. Is the benefit given by the Slavery civic worth the uprise?

Take note, that once the calender comes along. The Obelisks (Monuments as I would refer them to since I normally play on Warlords)

Yes, but obelisks double culture after many years (don't know exactly). And would those built manually (not gotten from stonehenge) would remain after Calendar?

In fact, wonders also double culture after many years. So do many other cultural buildings. That is why all the more we should build them.

Please allow me to post here:

The big reason to build Obelisks is to get the 20 tiles radius in our cities ( at

least before we can build libraries).

Best regards,

Please allow me to post here:

The big reason to build Obelisks is to get the 20 tiles radius in our cities ( at

least before we can build libraries).

Best regards,
Hehe, I only allow you to post here if you join the CCC :goodjob:.

Then, I will join now.

Best regards,

I would like to join this group hyronymus.

I'd also like to ask a question, what are the group members views on our founding of a religion? I know I've seen a few of you backing proposals to rush for a religion, but isn't this something the CCC should be backing more forcefully?

Welcome fed1943 and grant2004.

My personal view on founding a religion is that we should aim at Judaism. Not just because it's one of the religions but also because the close relation with the Organised Religion civic. Budhism and Hinduism are usually tough to discover while Judaism, Taoism and Islam are attainable for a well-developed player civ.

Also welcome, ordinaryguy.

I sense we have some work to do when the citizens are tired of using their stone-point arrows and axes.

Crosspost yes, but ,er...... I would like to join this group ;)

I haven't been added.

Thank you for the welcome, Hyronymus.

Some thoughts about religion (in game terms, of course) :
Religion is a good tool (can give culture, happiness, intelligence and gold; can
also be a great help or damage in the diplomatic field).
But always comes with a price: research, great person or military focus to get it.
Religion can mean different things:
1) To have a religion in city/cities - always good (enables buildings and the
subsequent) very small or no damage; price is research or nothing.
2) To have a state religion - gives happiness, full advantage to most religious
civics and is a very powerful diplomacy tool; can also damage quick and a
lot the diplomatic situation; price is the anarchy and the effort to spread
the religion to our cities.
3) To have the Holy city - gives culture,intelligence,spreads religion and
enables the next; no damage; price is research or military focus to get it.
4) To have the Holy Shrine - gives gold and enhances spread;no damage;
price is a Great Prophet.

The seven religions: the only difference between them is time. The two earliest "belong" to civs started with mysticism; judaism may be too or not;
the last four "belong" to science civs (commerce,beakers,scientists,great
scientists). And also all seven "belong" to the better military.
So, the price: (research or troops) and the advantage: sooner the better.

I would like very much to ear from you.
Best regards,

Religion is never bad. The only question is, should you delay other techs in order to get one?

Indeed, ordinaryguy, that is the question.

IMO, if we do not start with mysticism and the related tech is not on our way
for some other reason, I'll say: No.

Talk to the military...

Best regards,

Indeed, ordinaryguy, that is the question.

IMO, if we do not start with mysticism and the related tech is not on our way
for some other reason, I'll say: No.

Talk to the military...

Best regards,

I agree. Maybe we could try for COL or Theology......

May I ask all CCC members to participate in the discussion on Slavery in this topic: Civic Discussion: Slavery (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=214640)

May I ask all CCC members to participate in the discussion on Slavery in this topic: Civic Discussion: Slavery (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=214640)

My name isn't in the members' list and I have requested to join :confused:

My name isn't in the members' list and I have requested to join :confused:
Your name is in the list, really :) (OK, I admit I edited the post).

I would like to join!!!

Welcome to you too, Joe Harker :).

I think it's time for us to discuss how to spread our culture quickly and efficiently. Stonehenge seems far away which deprives us of "free" +1 :culture: per city (until Calender). The queued library in Falcon's Haven would do the trick but it's not substantial enough in my opinion. The most beautiful solution would be discovering a religion, right?

I think we need a religion, just because it gives us money and details of foriegn cities, and also to make everyone the same religion so one less reason for backstabbing AI

Rome has Buddhism and some other unknown civ has Judaism. The only religion left in this era is Hinduism.

Unfortunately Hinduism should be falling very soon, I believe our best strategy will be to continue with alphabet, and then trade for as many religion techs as we can from the AI. Then we may be able to make a rush for CoL.

That's why The Oracle would be nice: to discover Theology. Unfortunately certain other people prefer getting Code of Laws with The Oracle.

I think it's time for us to discuss how to spread our culture quickly and efficiently. Stonehenge seems far away which deprives us of "free" +1 :culture: per city (until Calender). The queued library in Falcon's Haven would do the trick but it's not substantial enough in my opinion. The most beautiful solution would be discovering a religion, right?

A purely anecdotal reply based on experience in the Democracy Challenge game. I put it in a spoiler since I wasn't sure how folks felt about feedback from a somewhat related game. Let me know if you think this is a problem.


I have played the challenge variant numerous times and the only time I won, I did NOT try to found a religion early. Seems like when I did, it just got the other players mad at me sooner. I did follow fbelintani's research plan through 1 AD and got Confucianism from CoL from the Oracle in 925 BC. Even then I did not convert, thinking to keep a low profile and it worked! I never got the serious negative attention I got in other games, although I'm not sure of all the reasons why. FWIW.

That's why The Oracle would be nice: to discover Theology. Unfortunately certain other people prefer getting Code of Laws with The Oracle.

What is your purpose in getting Theology? For the Sistine Chapel? Theocracy civic? Please explain.

COL is good too as it enables courthouses and caste system civic (if we have a GP farm).

The first to discover Theology finds Christianity.

The first to discover Theology finds Christianity.

The first to discover COL finds Confucianism. And you haven't answered my question yet.

A purely anecdotal reply based on experience in the Democracy Challenge game. I put it in a spoiler since I wasn't sure how folks felt about feedback from a somewhat related game. Let me know if you think this is a problem.


I have played the challenge variant numerous times and the only time I won, I did NOT try to found a religion early. Seems like when I did, it just got the other players mad at me sooner. I did follow fbelintani's research plan through 1 AD and got Confucianism from CoL from the Oracle in 925 BC. Even then I did not convert, thinking to keep a low profile and it worked! I never got the serious negative attention I got in other games, although I'm not sure of all the reasons why. FWIW.


I'm glad that you learned something from playing that game :goodjob:

The first to discover COL finds Confucianism. And you haven't answered my question yet.

Courthouses is more important than Sistine Chapel IMO.

I almost always go for CoL. I also almost always lose, above Noble. :(
No idea whether these two minifacts are related. :crazyeye:

Courthouses is more important than Sistine Chapel IMO.

I agree with that too. The reason I raised the issue of SC was because Hyronymus wanted our cities to have more culture.

That is why I also feel that COL is much more beneficial.

Fellow citizens, it's time to push for a cultural bomb. I've just checked the current situation of our nation and I noticed the city of Lyons is extremely close to our fine capital and our new third city (see here) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/Lyons.JPG). I want to find out how we can enforce our culture upon Lyons. It will give us a free city with an open source to clams. With some luck we can even develop Lyons to cover the vinyards 2W of Lyons.

If we're going for a cultural bomb then we'll definately need a religion, make sure to push for CoL in our tech discussions

Fellow citizens, it's time to push for a cultural bomb. I've just checked the current situation of our nation and I noticed the city of Lyons is extremely close to our fine capital and our new third city (see here) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/Lyons.JPG). I want to find out how we can enforce our culture upon Lyons. It will give us a free city with an open source to clams. With some luck we can even develop Lyons to cover the vinyards 2W of Lyons.

If we're going for a cultural bomb then we'll definately need a religion, make sure to push for CoL in our tech discussions

There are 5 ways:

1. Research Music first and get GA.

2. Research Drama, build theater and run artist specialist

3. Build wonder(s) that produce GA points.

4. GP farm with GA emphasized with caste system as civic.

A religion is not enough to flip a city usually.

After some sever sneezing from all the dust gathered on this topic I want to reopen this fine instrument for discussing the points of view with my party members. Don't worry. non-members are invited to discuss with us!

With the discovery of Democracy we could change civic from Serfdom to Emancipation. It would really be an early change to Emancipation, one I never executed that early in a game myself. We could however benefit from it. Not only does it penalise our enemies it also gives +100% growth of Cottages, Hamlets and Villages. The only bonus Serfdom gives us is +50% worker speed, something I don't find too exciting compared to the bonuses provided by Emancipation. The upkeep for Serfdom and Emancipation is equal.

When we conquered the Romans I would strongly suggest we change civics again. This time from Vassalage to Free Speech. Free Speech has less upkeep and yields +100% culture in all our cities and +2 gold from towns. What we would loose is our +2 experience points for new units and the free (as in no upkeep) 25 units. Given the favour that a Space Victory has I think we can easily adopt Free Speech though. We only need an army to defend our nation if we go for a Space Victory.

I would argue we delay the Civic change till after the Roman War (annihilation of Rome), and make a more radical shift in the Civics.

We all agree Representation and Organized Religion works out fine, with the extra science and building speed.

But after the Roman wars, we should change from Vassalage to Free Speech (But make sure we build all the armies we need for the rest of the game under "Vassalage") and then the shift from Serfdom to emancipation in the very same Civic change. The reason for this, is that there is still a need to work our land relatively fast, as we got some jungle and forests to handle, as well as some roads to develop following the German conquest.

I agree to the outlined idea, but to pace all changes after the Roman War.

With the amount of civic changes we've had, it's starting to get expensive to change civics. Therefor I'd say we should make one big switch after Democracy (whenever that'll be :rolleyes:). The final civics should be Representation, Free Speech, Emancipation, Mercantilism, Free Religion.

I agree to this plan, and as Dutchfire says, we need to make it in one major change. Right after the Roman War would be perfect.

I agree,too. After the Roman War shall be the good timing.

And the civics proposed also look good, but we shall see later.

Best regards,

I have no objections to the proposed changes.