It has been argued (rightly, I think) that Judaism it's not a proselitistic faith (it doesn't seek for new believers), it doesn't make much sense to have it. If we add the fact that most games, Greece, Persia, Rome and Egypt (and Babilonia in Warlords, I guess) choose this religion as SR, things go all weird.

So we have to think on some alternative to Judaism . We need a religion that fills the gap on the eastern mediterraneum and middle east until Arabians come and spread Islam on the area by de force.

Here are the ideas:

1.- mitsho's idea: zoroastrianism. This is good for Babilonia and Persia. Maybe for Greece, also. But it seems to me that Zoroastrian Rome or Egypt are as weird as Jewish.

2.- My idea: Christian Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy will be founded for the first civ to discover Alphabet, but will be auto-funded in Jerusalem by 1 AD if anyone didn't before. As most of the times, Greece it's the first to discover Alphabet, the holy city will be Greek (which makes sense, as Constantinople was the holy city of Orthodoxy until 1453 when it fell under Turks hands). It's not impossible to the other civs to have it, what it's good, because I don't like too much determinism. And the most important: for a good time, most of the mediterrnean civs will remain pagan (what it's histporically accurate), and after the historical foundation of Christianism, they will start to convert to the religion that still today is dominant on the area (with the exception of Egypt, Persia and Babylon which are muslim, but in our world they fell under Arabian rule, so if in RFC happened the same, they will be muslim anyway).
Christianity's auto-foundation (now should be called Catholicism) will be delayed to the Orthodox schism, which happened on 1054 (so year 1050 will be good), and will be done on Rome, of course. Obviously, there's a lot of possibilities to be discovered earlier, but it will be done either by Rome (they beeline for Theology, most of the times), or by France, Spain, England or Germany. As I said, I don't like determinism, but if the result should be most of the times accurate to history. In any case, Catholicism will cover most of western europe, and Orthodoxy, the eastern.

There's only problem. There's some risk for hinduism/buddhism to spread into Persia/Babylon. But this already happens, and never lasts for too long. But now one of these religions (or both) will have more time to spread into middle east, so we may have a Buddhist Persia more than once. Accordingly to this, we can just reduce the spreading rate of Indian religions a bit, and everything should be OK.

What do you think? Do you have any better ideas? Would you modify one of these ones?

Personally I'm all for Zoroastrianism as it was extremely important and influential historically and appears to be much easier to work into Rhye's. The Catholicism idea relies on Catholicism being spread throughout the west via missionaries as most of the Mediterranean and central Europe would be Orthodox through your method. Catholicism wasn't something that just spread out of Rome in 1050 it was always there the split between east and west became official in the 11th century. The only way the Orthodox thing could work is to suddenly convert half of Christianity to Orthodox and the other half into Catholicism in 1050 but I don't think thats possible given Civ 4's limitations. So I vote for Zoroastrianism, it would be cool to see Persia not Jewish for a change :p .

I agree with Zoroastrianism. It remained a fairly significant religion until the 600s or so at least, and still has a small number of followers today.

The Christian schism idea is simply too complicated and there are too many different ways to do it.. and then there's Protestantism.. and if you do that you ought to model the schisms in other religions too... so it seems much more sensible to me just to replace Judaism with Zoroastrianism.

I would prefer Christian Orthodoxy but, you shouldn't change the founding date for Catholicism. Otherwise, there is a risk of having a hard time converting anyone to that religion since everyone in Europe will probably be Orthodox by that time.
However, you should also look back to the thread that talked about this issue. People had come up with a nice solution to encourage AIs not to switch to the first religion that comes to their city (Buddist France for example or Confucianist Russia).

My time is very short now, and I prefer to concentrate on a different thing instead of espanding embassies.
The last thing I want to do is schisms. I can't however promise I'll do that in time; in case, you'll just get a minor patch containing just fixes and refinements

Rhye is working on shism, so I would go for zoroastrianism, but I would wait for a while until you see Rhye's ideas.

I do like the idea of zoroastrianism, but how about having orthadoxy spawning in constantinople if not olready thier and renaming christianity to catholocismand starting that of at rome, if not got already, and then the schism I always assumed would be for prodistantism? just throwing ideas around, I dont mind if no one likes it :)

Rhye is working in schisms, so I prefer Zoroastrionism.

And Catholic Holy City in Rome! XD

I like the idea of the Orthodox being in (for purely selfish reasons)... But, how the heck do we implement a schism??? Between 33AD (the official date for the founding of Christianity, btw) and 1054, while there were two increasingly different approaches to Christianity, there was only one Orthodox Catholic church - i.e. the church pre-schism wasn't catholic or orthodox, it was both...

And, who split from who? There are at least two different accounts of that story...

I also think that if we're gonna split Christianity, the Protestants cannot be ignored.

Splitting Christianity is a tad complicated IMO, as much as I would LOVE to see the Orthodox in the game...

Why just Christianity? Everyone should be aware of the sects of Islam. I don't now if the same applies to Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.

I'm voting for Zoroastrianism, and here are my reasons:

1. Historical influence: Under the Achaemenid empire, the Jews of Babylon were greatly influenced by Zoroastrian concepts of heaven and hell, demons, etc. Through Judaism, those concepts later spread to Christianity and Islam, which (and this is the last time I checked) are the two most followed religions on the planet.

2. Having Zoroastrianism as the predominant religion of the Middle East, at least as far as Persia/Babylon go, would be more historically accurate than having a religion like Orthodox Christianity 500 years before Christ. It was the state religion of Persia, and therefore the regions under Persian control, until the rise of Islam.

Ok, Zoroastrianism seems like the best choice :)

Well, I'm honoured to be named as the father of the idea, but I'm not ;) And I nevertheless want to add some "Bewares" that were also in my original idea (but not written down..)


UHVI: Persia must still be able to fulfill their UHV which basically means that if you remove Judaism, you have to have another Religion of the same time (Zoro...) or change the UHV.
UHVII: Arabia has a similar problem, but here for the Shrines also Orthodoxy can be the solution. But the more you spam the region with religions the more difficult it becomes for them to spread Islam to 40%.
Schisms: As said before, it doesn't make sense to base a system on something that might get changed. Although it is everything else than probable that Rhye will add in a Schism-system soon (see newest version).
Gameview: The Religion page has afaik only place for one more religion/are the adequate graphics?


That's why I proposed adding Zoroastrianism in without removing Judaism if you want it. Judaism isn't totally unrealistic and it's already perfectly balanced into the game. Christianity on the other hand works perfectly too. If you add Orthodoxy and Catholicism, where do you stay with Protestantism which would mean one too many religion? How do you make sure that Christians like each other more than Muslims? Does only Christianity deserve "sects"? Don't we have enough religions already?

I would thus opt most likely to keep the situation as it is. Add in Zoroastrianism at most.

But in any case, weigh your additions carefully before spamming the world with religions ;)

mick

Juedaism is NOT balanced perfectly with the game, I suggest swapping it for zoroastrianism

Zoroastrianism, we could be getting schisms and, even if we're not, it wouldn't be fair on all the other religions just to have Christianity split into two.

Juedaism is NOT balanced perfectly with the game, I suggest swapping it for zoroastrianism

So what is not balanced perfectly into the game? I agree that it could be swapped with Zoroastrianism and we would still have mostly the same game though. However this has one negative. It makes the Arabian UHV again harder to impossible (The Zoro Holy City will probably be Parsa, a major distraction from the expansion path of the Arabs).

mick

It's balanced as far as gameplay goes, but accuracy's right out the window. When did you last see a Jewish missionary? =P

It's balanced as far as gameplay goes, but accuracy's right out the window. When did you last see a Jewish missionary? =P

I wasn't talking of something else?!?

.........what?

I wasn't talking of something else than balance of gameplay. I never ever said one word about accuracy.

mick

Replace Judaism with Zoroastrianism, since if Rhye gets schisms working, there'll be no need for orthodoxy.

The orthodoxy is, however, a good idea.

OK, it seems confirmed that Rhye's working on schisms. I wasn't sure about this, and so I had the idea of Orthodoxy. So we have the alternative of Zoroastrism. But the problem is the Arabian UHV, and I will add something I haven't figure it out. Jerusalem is coastal, so Judaism spreads well. But Parsa isn't. This will mean that probably Zoroastrism will be constrained to the Persian region. So the eastern civs (Greece, Rome, and Egypt, and, in Warlords, Carthage) will have less culture. Less culture means less defense, and less defense results on more easily falling to raging barb attacks. Actually in Vanilla we have a balance problem with barbs that causes these three civs to fall 100% of the times before medieval ages. I know that it makes sense historically, but makes Arabian life just too easy. And this factor will make things get worst.

So we may think in another alternative. For another project I'm working in, I have played a little The Ancient Mediterranean mod. In this mod, it features a religion that may fit for us: Heliocratic Polytheism. Zoroastrism, Greek Polytheism, Egyptian one, or even Roman's one fall into this cathegory. So it doesn't matter were it's founded. We can make it to be founded with Polytheism, or auto-funded in Egypt. That will be on the way of Arabia, connected to the sea through the Nile (so it can spread quicker), and it's not impossible to other civs to have it.

What do you think?

Ok, sorry, I clearly misunderstood your post :blush:

Juediasm is not balanced, it has a monopoly for the first half of the game then becomes obsolete, in the first half it would be better if it wasn't thier and in the second half it might as well not be.

Yeah, there is Jew-Europe that happens about 70% of the time.

Jerusalem is coastal, so Judaism spreads well. But Parsa isn't. This will mean that probably Zoroastrism will be constrained to the Persian region. So the eastern civs (Greece, Rome, and Egypt, and, in Warlords, Carthage) will have less culture. Less culture means less defense, and less defense results on more easily falling to raging barb attacks. Actually in Vanilla we have a balance problem with barbs that causes these three civs to fall 100% of the times before medieval ages. I know that it makes sense historically, but makes Arabian life just too easy. And this factor will make things get worst.


What do you think?

Civic paganism could give 1 :) and 2 :culture: to obelsik and monument.
(this would also reveal a small bug in the code of Firaxis)

Well if no one else does it then when its finished I will probably make a Jew->Zoroastrian mod

Zoroastrianism for me too!

Wo I think we're all getting a little to excited here about religion. How the game works at the moment is pretty damn smooth. If you're concerned about the Judaism issue, Zoroastrianism could provide a way of stopping the spread of Judaism in the east. I haven't had much of a problem with Judaism spreading West though, but then again I'm new to Rhyes I've only played 4 games.

It's balanced as far as gameplay goes, but accuracy's right out the window. When did you last see a Jewish missionary? =P

The perception that Judaism doesn't missionize is a relatively modern one. For most of its history, Judaism actively missionized. By the year 50 c.e. or so, Jewish missionaries had converted most of Ethiopia, Yemen and parts of Persia to Judaism. Whole Berber tribes in North Africa converted to Judaism around the same time while, in the Greco-Roman world, there were hundreds of thousands of Judaizing pagans.

What stopped Jewish missionizing wasn't Judaism per se, but several accidents of history: the Jewish revolts against Rome (which made converting to Judaism and missionizing for Judaism illegal and impossible after 135 c.e) and the spread of Christianity and Islam (both of which banned Jewish missionizing and slaughtered Jewish converts). Indeed, in areas of the world that were neither Christian or Muslim, Jews kept missionizing -- hence why the Khazar kingdom converted around 900 c.e. Had history played out differently (i.e. the whole point of Civilization), Jews would probably have kept missionizing.

Juedaism as a religion is activly against missionary activity, islam frowns upon it but accepts it, christianity is the only one of the three that activly supports it. Also theare more people following Juche (the state religion of north korea set up by Kim Ill than followers of Juedaism, also more people following Spiritism (set up in france in the 1th century). Its assentially tied in to its ethnic group and as such shouldnt be represented by the system as it exists. This leaves to sollutions, change the system or remove Juedaism. I vote for the second, this is about a Modcomp to do that, if you dont want it removed dont download it, but dont complain on this thread that it should stay.

Yes, I agree kairob's opinion. But did anybody noticed on the Heliocratic Polytheism idea? What do you think about it?

Civic paganism could give 1 and 2 to obelsik and monument.
(this would also reveal a small bug in the code of Firaxis)

This was a partial solution I proposed time ago. Combined with Zoroastrism can just fit, but I think the Helio solution can be easier to do.

I think that if we just assume that all civs without a later religion are pagan and then give +1 culture to all cities when you have the paganism civic. but give a large penalty to civs with a state religion to those without (the pagan ones).

As far as I can see this is the best way to represent paganism, if you want it represented, I have given this a great deal of thought and all the other ideas I could find or think off had large flaws in them.

Judaism as a religion is actively against missionary activity, Islam frowns upon it but accepts it, Christianity is the only one of the three that actively supports it. Also there are more people following Juche (the state religion of north Korea set up by Kim Ill Sung than followers of Judaism, also more people following Spiritism (set up in France in the 19th century). Its essentially tied in to its ethnic group and as such shouldn't be represented by the system as it exists.

I don't want to Godwinize the thread, BUT, please remember that Jews were blamed by Rome, then the Vatican, for a host of problems that they had no control over. They were ostracized and persecuted for thousands of years. Then one man decided to make millions of Jews went up in smoke. It's not surprising that even fringe religions have more adherents than Judaism, but that should not b justification of the exclusion of a religion that has had such a prominent place in world affairs.

In stead of adding Orthodox Christianity, I'd propose a regeneracy or a reformation - available for ALL religions.
But ..the only religion this has happened to is Christianity ..
1. If the civ that holds the Holy city (The Papal States, in history) have bad relations with another civ that has that religion. (Say..-7 or -10 relations)
2. If the religion is too large
3. If the city is far away from the holy city (not connected or something)

Well.. I don't know. - Maybe the Orthodox idea is better.

But I do think that a world that is 30% Jewish - a Jewish Middle east, a Jewish Europe and a Jewish North-Africa is silly..
and I don't think Zoroastrianism is the thing to save it.

- Just my opinion :D

BUT, please remember that Jews were blamed by Rome, then the Vatican, for a host of problems that they had no control over. They were ostracized and persecuted for thousands of years. Then one man decided to make millions of Jews went up in smoke.

not forgetting the egyptians and babylonians making them slaves... plus the ottomans wernt all that pleasent and the communists were against all religions including the jews...

...and they still claim to be gods favoured people? looks like it...


Look I am not a religious person, I see it purely as a social construct. Looking at it objectively they have no place in this kind of world scale setting. Regardless of the reasons for thier small size (although I think that it is mostly because they are linked to an ethnic group and so as a rule grow as fast as those people.)

1. If the civ that holds the Holy city (The Papal States, in history) have bad relations with another civ that has that religion. (Say..-7 or -10 relations)


IIRC the Papal States were never in control of Jerusalem... Rome is not the holy city!

Yeah but it is the Centre of Catholocism

I don't know about your facts, but in my history book, by the time the Islam armies reached Persia, only the elite followed the unpopular Zoroastrianism. Just because the Jewish faith doesn't seek new members, doesn't mean it doesn't win converts. You don't have to be mainstream to be considered important.

I don't know about your facts, but in my history book, by the time the Islam armies reached Persia, only the elite followed the unpopular Zoroastrianism. Just because the Jewish faith doesn't seek new members, doesn't mean it doesn't win converts. You don't have to be mainstream to be considered important.

Not really. A lot of Iranian**** traditions, including the calendar and the spring New Year's celebrations all have Zoroastrian and pre-Zoroastrian roots. It's true that people of other faiths lived in the Empire, but the religion was a huge part of Persian society right up until that time.

Understanding sources from late antiquity is difficult. Most Sassanid sources from that period are lost leaving sources that have an obvious bias, either Byzantine or Islamic. For all we know every man and his dog was Zoroastrian during the Islamic invasion. I wonder what a Zoroastrian dog would be like.

Yeah but it is the Centre of Catholocism

Sorry, if you're just talking about catholicism, then okay i guess... I thought what the others meant was about christianity in general. *sigh of relief* :crazyeye:

Well then fair play to you I say :)

I think that if we just assume that all civs without a later religion are pagan and then give +1 culture to all cities when you have the paganism civic. but give a large penalty to civs with a state religion to those without (the pagan ones).

As far as I can see this is the best way to represent paganism, if you want it represented, I have given this a great deal of thought and all the other ideas I could find or think off had large flaws in them.

OK, sounds good to me. And I have an idea for that penalty: how about +1:mad: per each border pagan city? The motto will be "We don't like pagans near our homes". This should encourage the AI to spread their SR through their land (although already does just well).

do you meen that if you have a state religion then the cities with that state religion will become unhappy if thier nabouring cities do not have a religion (i.e. are pagan)? If so I agree, if not then I dont quite understand what you are saying, but that could be to do with the alcahol...

I meant exactly what you said, kairob. I didn't explained myself very well, so I will offer an example:
Let's say you are Rome. You have Rome, Mediolanum, Panormus, and Carthage. Christianity is founded on Panormus, and you immediately choose it as SR. Then, Panormus gains +2 :mad: , one per each border city; one from Rome, and one from Carthage. Mediolanum it's too far, and Panormus citizens will not concern, until Christianity spreads to Rome. Then Rome earns a +1:mad: , because Mediolanum is pagan, but Panormus loses one :mad: : now that Rome is christian, Panormians feel more satisfied.

This is how my idea will work. Understood? ;)

hmm, I do like it howevere it is a lot of checks...

Also is it possible to change Judaisms spread rate to 0 so it only stays in jurusalem? if so can someone tell me where to do it?

Idea: Judaism stay just like now, spreading, etc. But you can't accept it as a State Religion... this doesn't change very much the game mechanics...

( and to compense a +1:culture: or +1:commerce: or +1:gold: in the city that have Judaism )

hmm, interesting, but seriously where can I find the spread rates in the phython/xml?

Because I do not like the Jewish spread and control of religions in the early game I normally go into the Religious .xml file and drop Judaism down to say 0-5% rather then the normal 100% spread rate. That keeps Judaism mostly limited and behaves more realisitic.

Instead what could be done is have the spread at 0-5% until Jerusulem is first conquered at which point it could raise the spread rate to the normal 100%. Also spawning Jerusulem as a minor civ (instead of independent) called Israeli and only allowing Judaism to be its state religion for the negative diplo modifiers. Preventing any other state from using Judaism as a state religion would help as well.

Spearcatcher

If they did that then because of its cultre (close borders spark tention) and the other religion thing everyone will want to invade them, jhust like real life. However I doubt more civs will be added...

I think Judaism should stay in with its effects changed, it should not be allowed to be a state religion. It should add a commerce bonus in cities with Judaism, unless you adopt Theocracy, then it should add unhappiness with a chance of Judaism disapearing every turn.

Or just remove it, the only way to make it realistic is if it does next to nothing, it is wasting a slot

Yeah, it should be removed. I know there are some people that are against this, but this is about a MODCOMP, so it's totally optional. In fact, everybody should find here a solution that satisfies their pretensions. Having Israeli as a minor civ it's rather easy to do, but you'll have to swap other civ. If you like it, you can do it. I only want a solution for mediterranean/middle east in ancient/classical times.

I've thinking about it, and maybe we can add a solar polytheism, or even zoroastrism or whatever you like, and later on, when "traditionally christian" (spanish, french, german and english) spawn, give'em some Inquisitor units. Muslim civs will also have several. Or we can make the Inquisitor unit a unique unit for the civ that has the Christian and Muslim holy cities. That will help nearly-to-impossible arabian UHV condition of spreading islam to 40% to nearly-to-achievable, instead, BTW.

I guess it should be removed if its to hard to change its effects.

Taoism could stand to go, too...

I'd prefer to get rid of Taoism in favour of something else instead of Judaism. If you get rid of Judaism, might this not throw the Egyptian UHV a little bit out of skew? If you put in Zoroastrianism, the Arabian and Persian ones will be fine, but otherwise...

Look the only way for Juedaism to be accurate is for it to not do anything, so its a waist of a slot. When the mod has finished, and after my exams I plan on swapping Juedaism for Zoroastrianism, and maybe swapping Confucianism or Toaism for something as well. Also if I can I will make the Pagan civic have no state religion, and plus 1 happyness and culture to all cities and minus one hippyness and culture per nonstate religion. This and an Inquisitor that can remove religions. I know this will take a lot of time, but after my exams I will have plenty.

I think I have to agree with the idea about keeping Judaism in but reducing its spread rate to 0%-5%, as it would still have uses, and is just too important to leave out. I wouldn't be opposed to Zoroastrianism, and I like the Orthodox/schism issue. However, I think Protestantism might be a better subsitute, based on the history of Europe (founded by 1517 AD or with printing press). But I'd really like to see both, and I hope Rhye implements schisms soon.

It is not too fecking important, the only way it is accurate is to limit itsd effects to vertually nothing. It is a waste of a slot. This is agbout modcomps to replace it, you dont wanna replace it? fine, but this is the place for people who do!

Well, I wouldn't call it a waste simply because historically, no one but Israel has chosen it as a SR. Isn't that what you were talking about, not wanting every civ between Jerusalem and Cardiff to adopt it? Even without SR, it still provides culture, commerce and a science bonus with monasteries, not to mention increased happiness. If I read you correctly, it's not about limiting its effects, just its spread. Anyway, it seems like in most games civs adopt Buddhism, Christianity, and later on Islam, with only a few (if any) taking the rest. I almost never see Taoism as a SR. The point is that they do not all exist solely for this purpose.

There are many people who would disagree over the importance issue, but I won't get into that--Zoroastrianism is very important and influential too, and it is fair to point out that it's not in. That's why I am all for more religions without necessarily replacing any. Even so, as I said I would not be opposed to Zoroastrianism as an alternative.

There is good Zoroastrianism icons in of the mods that come with Warloards ( I think that the Rise of Rome ).

Taoism could stand to go, too...

I'd prefer to get rid of Taoism in favour of something else instead of Judaism. If you get rid of Judaism, might this not throw the Egyptian UHV a little bit out of skew? If you put in Zoroastrianism, the Arabian and Persian ones will be fine, but otherwise...

Egyptian UHV would still be possible, but you would need Delhi to make up for lack of culture in Jerusalem.

That is what I call a waste, using a religion, of which we have a limited account for increadably limited effects. It is proposed to decrease the spread rate to 0-5%. So basically a whole religions slot used to satisfy ONE city. So here is a thread for a modcomp to replace it with a religion that can do things and be more accurate.

Yes, I agree with kairob. Though I'm not still pretty sure about zoroastrism, it is a waste reduce the spreading of a religion nearly to 0%. If it was too minoritary than only deserves to stay in their holy city, then it's better to make a new wonder called "Temple of Salomon" that give more or less the same as a Holy Shrine, except for spreading a religion, of course ;). And use that slot for a new religion.

I thought that Judaism was/is spread quite good in real world- followers of this faith settle in many countries instead of using missionaries (in civ terms)- so in RFC terms because none of playable civs have Judaism as a state religion it's spread without missionaries.

Yeah, but only in small numbers, so if the counts enough to have juedaism in lots of cities then most cities would end up with anmost all religions.

I think that Judaism should stay but not spread as fast as now (Europe have Christianity, Islam or Judaism as a state religion) but not as slow as you proposed.

We know that. but this thread is for people who disagree and want it replaced.

I thought that Judaism was/is spread quite good in real world- followers of this faith settle in many countries instead of using missionaries (in civ terms)- so in RFC terms because none of playable civs have Judaism as a state religion it's spread without missionaries.

Yes, you're right, but you're missing one point: as kairob says, they're only small communities, and rarely they become the "local religious power". They are usually respected for being master crafters, bankers, etc; but not for their faith.

Isn't it represented well in the game now?

It's over-represented. That's the problem.

Zoroastrianism wouldn't be even more overrepresented when it would be included?

not in the early game, and it is feasable that zoroastrianism didnt collapse as a major religion, it is not feasable that juedaism became one without changing the nature and charactoristics of the religion.

I would have to say that there is a definite case for Judaism being included as a major religion. Besides the fact that it has had a tremendous influence on all abrahamic faiths, it has had many followers outside israel, from spain to north africa to the edge of the middle east, and not just the diaspora.

Also, I think that the issue of it being non-proselitistic is a bit of a moot point as well: one could argue that hinduism and taoism are nothing more than the state religions of india and china respectively, the only difference between the former and the two latter is that China and India are larger than israel.

I beleive that the key to keeping Judaism contained in the early statges of the games lies in creating incentives for not choosing a state religion. I've toyed with the idea in mods of making "paganism" civic more like "free religion": no state religion, 'pagan' temples that create happiness under paganism civic and unhappiness in cities that have religions attached to them. In that way, there are incentives for, say, the roman empire to stick with paganism rather than convert to Judaism the minute it pops up in one of thier cities.

I would second that (but again, this is a modcomp to erase Judaism, should be in another thread).

Paganism should allow pagan temples built everywhere, state religion only where religion is present. Pagan temples should give culture and happines and go obsolete with at last Theology, or something. Would need playtestint though.

mick

Would it be possible to code the paganism civic so that it has no state religion, adds 1 happyness and 1 culture to all cities but one unhappyness for each city with a nonstate religion and allows the construction of pagan temples and monastries. Pagan missionaries (not sure on this one btw) could be used to remove other religions affectivly restoring a city to paganism.

On a seporate but related note is it possible to set it so that non state religions had a 5 chance of being removed from your cities varying depending on which religious civic you have?

Paganism giving +1 :culture: is too overpower, all the newly created Cities will start to increse its borders...

I like the idea: +1 Happy. Maybe Granaries +1 :culture: ? =P

We'd also need to balance this with some bad effects though. Maybe a severe diplo hit to civs that have a state religion?

Would it be possible to code the paganism civic so that it has no state religion, adds 1 happyness and 1 culture to all cities but one unhappyness for each city with a nonstate religion and allows the construction of pagan temples and monastries. Pagan missionaries (not sure on this one btw) could be used to remove other religions affectivly restoring a city to paganism.

All of these are certainly mod-able, and not too difficult to do. I would hesitate to include a 'pagan missionary' (although i would check out the various 'inquisitor mods' that thelopez has dabbled with), simply due to the fact that animist/polythist proto-religions don't have the same self-pertetuating creeds that religions do. There's a reason why the pantheons of the past have fallen: the are organized as 'top-down' systems that collapse without leadership, rather than religions, that ake a life of thier own in the form of ritual, philosoph and creeds, giving owernership of the beleifs to an individual rather than an elite. I would create pagan temples that don't require a religion (or perhaps several: a 'harvest' temple, a 'seafaring' temple,
etc to represent the polytheistic nature of proto-religions) that create happiness and culture under a non-state-religion paganism, but are obsolete under other religious civics.

On a seporate but related note is it possible to set it so that non state religions had a 5 chance of being removed from your cities varying depending on which religious civic you have?

Not sure how this works, but it would seem to be possible.

yeah. "-2 You are Pagan!"

Not -2, more severe than that, maybe the same or a little more that "We are upset that you have fallen...heathen...etc.."

not in the early game, and it is feasable that zoroastrianism didnt collapse as a major religion, it is not feasable that juedaism became one without changing the nature and charactoristics of the religion.

If you take the time to code Arabia and Turkey to raize any city that has Zoroastrianism, then I would be OK with this modcomp. As it stands, you're just replacing one religion that had strong, regional power in ancient times with another religion that had strong, regional power in ancient times.

Orthodoxy gets a :goodjob: .

I would say at least as bad as the other religion modifier, maybe just the same...

I would say at least as bad as the other religion modifier, maybe just the same...

In that case, why bother? Today, Zoroastrianism is dead and Judaism has spawned a nation that is a major problem in modern world politics. It would be more historically accurate to keep Judaism unless you code in a way for Zoroastrianism to be phased out.

(...)a way for Zoroastrianism to be phased out.

If someone makes a way that Religions desapear it may be very good! We can have Roman Mythos ( disapering when Christianism spreads to the city ), Greek Mythos, etc :)

I do want religions to disapear over time. but just to make it clear;

This is a modcomp to replace Juedaism. If you think it should stay then it is not for you so don't complaining about it

I do want religions to disapear over time. but just to make it clear;

This is a modcomp to replace Juedaism. If you think it should stay then it is not for you so don't complaining about it

Jeez dude. We're saying Zoroastrianism is a poor choice. Plenty of others, like Orthodoxy or Protestantism, would better fit the bill.

Orthodoxy or Protestantism

...Christianity is already in.

If we're gonna have Christian sects, we must have sects for the other religions, or it will be totally biased. Since there aren't enough slots, Zoroastrianism seems best. Has the schisms thing died now?

But Christianity is the biggest religion (~2.1 billion (milliards)) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

...Christianity is already in.

If we're gonna have Christian sects, we must have sects for the other religions, or it will be totally biased. Since there aren't enough slots, Zoroastrianism seems best. Has the schisms thing died now?

Every decision you make is biased and discriminatory. People shouldn't take it so personally that a particular religion isn't included. There are only so many spots and something is going to be left out.

Anyway, you pick whichever one you think had the most impact on the world (IMO Orthodoxy) and code it in. Historically, the "sects" of Christianity and Islam were more powerful and world-changing than Zoroastrianism.

In that case, why bother? Today, Zoroastrianism is dead

Are you sure? It is a small religion now, but is not really dead. Freddie Mercury was one of it´s followers.

Are you sure?

Zoroastrianism is just a step above Wicca as being a living religion. I say just a step above because Zoroastrianism has plenty of written works while Wicca was mostly oral.

Zoroastrianism is dead

Do tell me next time you visit an Aztec city or a city in the Roman empire...

Do tell me next time you visit an Aztec city or a city in the Roman empire...

Mexico City for the former. London, Rome, Paris and Bonn for the latter. And personally, I would like name changes over time. Maybe even name changes dependent on civics. Look, I have nothing against Zoroastrianism. My issue is that the point of the mod is to simulate history as accurately as possible with the time the coders are donating and the restrictions in the game. If there could be 80 religions, I'd be in heaven. But since we're limited to 7, we should go for the big 7, whatever they may be, and leave the fringe ones (including Judaism) out.

But thats just my opinion. /me shrugs.

London was the capital city of England last time I checked...

The point I was trying to make was that things that are 'dead' are abundant in this mod.

Orthodox Christianity is...Christianity...Represented.

I have no problem about discussion about other replacments than zoroastrianism, I just get annoyed at anyone who posts here saying that Juedaism should stay.

Judaism should stay.

(sorry, couldn't resist, I know it's childish)

Judaism should stay.

(sorry, couldn't resist, I know it's childish)

I laugh, at least :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If your arguing about religions that have had influence on the world Zoroastrianism has had a huge impact on Christianity and Islam. The dualistic nature of Zoroastrianism introduced the idea of an evil (ie Satan) created by god to the Abrahamic religions. Zoroastrian ideas such as apocalypse and rebirth of the world could have influenced the Jewish and latter Christian Apocalyptic writings. So while Zoroastrianism only has a couple of million followers in the present day its influence and numbers in the past make it a significant religion but its a religion that has no representation in Civ. Sects already have representation though the religion they have broken off from and there is far to many sects to deal with. If Judaism is going to be replaced replace it with Zoroastrianism, its unique and historically significant.

I dunno, if Juedaism and one of either confusianism or taosism were replaced we could have orthadoxy and later prodistantism, this aught to start more wars in europe at least...

I dunno, if Juedaism and one of either confusianism or taosism were replaced we could have orthadoxy and later prodistantism, this aught to start more wars in europe at least...

I feel as if simply taking out certain religions to create more diversity within others doesn't really address the main problem: religions in Civ4 are too homogenous and don't allow for differences in theology or 'schisms'.

This next bit might be a bit OT, so you can stop reading here if you like ;). I think the main problems of religious homogeneity lies in the fact that there is only one holy city/shrine for each faith, when in the 'real world' there are in fact many competing relgious institutions within a single faith. This shouldn't be to difficult to model, however.

Consider having 3 'shrines' for each religion (for example, christianity could have the temple of the nativity for orthodox, the vatican for catholocism, and perhaps the cathedral of cantebury for protestanism). Each shrine allows that civilization to build orthodox/catholic/protestant cathedrals in cites that have a christian temple. These cathedrals can produce a maximum of 3 happiness: 1 for having christianity as the state religion, 1 for having thier shrine within you empire, and a final happiness for a 'favourite' civic of thiers (eg Org religion for orthodoxy, theocracy for catholicism, pacifism for protestanism). In this way, different religious authorities 'pressure' thier respective civilizations to to adopt different civics, leading to differences between empires within a single religions, and, in due time, religious wars. This concept does rely on the fact differences in civics wil cause antagonism between civilizations, but that isn't hard to mod in and would probably more accurately reflect the 'differences' that real civilizations have found between each other.

Whew! sorry for the OT jaunt...

Consider having 3 'shrines' for each religion (for example, christianity could have the temple of the nativity for orthodox, the vatican for catholocism, and perhaps the cathedral of cantebury for protestanism). Each shrine allows that civilization to build orthodox/catholic/protestant cathedrals in cites that have a christian temple. These cathedrals can produce a maximum of 3 happiness: 1 for having christianity as the state religion, 1 for having thier shrine within you empire, and a final happiness for a 'favourite' civic of thiers (eg Org religion for orthodoxy, theocracy for catholicism, pacifism for protestanism). In this way, different religious authorities 'pressure' thier respective civilizations to to adopt different civics, leading to differences between empires within a single religions, and, in due time, religious wars. This concept does rely on the fact differences in civics wil cause antagonism between civilizations, but that isn't hard to mod in and would probably more accurately reflect the 'differences' that real civilizations have found between each other.

If you can mod this, I'll start worshipping you! :worship:(And today I've woke up as an atheist ;) ). But we will have to find 3 sects to every religion. It won't be that difficult, but I'm not sure if every religion does have them (e.g. confucionist sects? I only know legalists as their major doctrine...).

About zoroastrism, I'm still very dubious about it. I know they had a lot of influence, but... this faith has almost died. However, I have a simple idea to make zoroastrism, or, as I proposed earlier, a generic solar polytheism, (I still support this idea) become "fading". It simple: make their missionaries, temples and monasteries obsolete with a certain tech (e.g. Theology, or Divine Right). We can make the religion itself to have a low spreading rate, also. That way, ONLY if you built the holy shrine, it will have a chance to continue expanding, and anyway, it won't do it very much.

If you can mod this, I'll start worshipping you! :worship:(And today I've woke up as an atheist ;) ). But we will have to find 3 sects to every religion. It won't be that difficult, but I'm not sure if every religion does have them (e.g. confucionist sects? I only know legalists as their major doctrine...).

Modding this shouldn't be too much of a problem; I just don't have the time...! Basically it could be done in three steps using xml:

(1) Edit the state religion conditions so that one happiness is added for each 'cathedral' (I'm not sure if temples work this way, but even if there isn't room in the curent structure to do it, there are plenty of competent modders here who can add in a 'building happiness' modifier for each religion xml file).

(2) Insert a modifier in the xml file for each religious shrine so that it adds 1 happiness in each city with its corresponding cathedral. I'm pretty sure that the yeild modifiers for wonders would allow for this to be done. Alternately, you could mod cathedrals so that they naturally produce 1 unhappiness, but receive 2 happiness if you civ has their shrine. In that way, there is a net -1 happiness if they exist outside your empire and a net +1 happiness if they are within.

(3) Edit Civic xml files so that 1 happiness is added for each cathedral's favourite civic. This would be similar to the 2 happiness that barracks receive under nationalism. This might cause a bit of odd behaviour (for instance, a Sunni mosque would produce 1 happiness under a catholic theocracy), but given that the civic still matches thier creed would proably be enough to rationally explain that.

As for sects, I don't think that it would be too difficult:

Judaism: Orthodox, Reformed, Kabbalah (?)
Christianity: Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant
Islam: Sunni, Shi'ia, Sufi
Buddhist:Theravāda, Mahāyāna, Vajrayāna
Hinduism: Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism
Taoism: Quanzhen, Tianshi, Shangqing
Confucianism: orthodox/traditional, legalist, Neo-confucian

You can argue over which would be most appropriate and where, but the point is that there is lots of choice.

About zoroastrism, I'm still very dubious about it. I know they had a lot of influence, but... this faith has almost died. However, I have a simple idea to make zoroastrism, or, as I proposed earlier, a generic solar polytheism, (I still support this idea) become "fading". It simple: make their missionaries, temples and monasteries obsolete with a certain tech (e.g. Theology, or Divine Right). We can make the religion itself to have a low spreading rate, also. That way, ONLY if you built the holy shrine, it will have a chance to continue expanding, and anyway, it won't do it very much.

THere's plenty of religions that fit a similar description (why hasn't jainism been brought up before?) I propose that these religions be manifested through temples that don't require a religion to be present in the city, dont have missionaries, and can only be built by the civilization that has built thier holy shrine. Like the cathedrals of the major religions, these temples would have thier happiness tied to civics, and would stay after other religions have been established, giving the city a religious/mystical background or imprint. Other religions that might fit in this catagory are: shinto, roman/greco pantheism, druze/alawite sects, shikism, mayan/aztec beleifs (Quetzalcoatlism?) etc etc etc.....

THere's plenty of religions that fit a similar description (why hasn't jainism been brought up before?) I propose that these religions be manifested through temples that don't require a religion to be present in the city, dont have missionaries, and can only be built by the civilization that has built thier holy shrine. Like the cathedrals of the major religions, these temples would have thier happiness tied to civics, and would stay after other religions have been established, giving the city a religious/mystical background or imprint. Other religions that might fit in this catagory are: shinto, roman/greco pantheism, druze/alawite sects, shikism, mayan/aztec beleifs (Quetzalcoatlism?) etc etc etc.....

We can make these "extra holy shrines" to be world wonders?

We really don't need sects for religions that will always stay small (Judaism or Daoism for example). The whole point of sects was to reduce the "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" pact that built up in Europe.

We can make these "extra holy shrines" to be world wonders?

Precisely!

We really don't need sects for religions that will always stay small (Judaism or Daoism for example). The whole point of sects was to reduce the "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" pact that built up in Europe

I certainly think that Taoism is large enough to warrant sects, but maybe not judaism...

I certainly think that Taoism is large enough to warrant sects, but maybe not judaism...

I think he meant gameplay-wise where it is a one-civ religion.

If that.

.

I've found some good evidence in favour of Zoroastrianism:
http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/local--files/religion/Religions.jpg
Note how there's no specific area that's "converted" to Judaism, only arrows showing the distribution on the Jewish race. Zoroastrianism, however, has quite a large converted zone.

Hey, that is it! I knew it had a name! The religion I meant as "Solar Polytheism" or as "Heliocratic Polytheism" was Mithraism! Good work, Talkie_Toaster! :goodjob: . As you can see from the map, it expanded to all the Mediterranean, the area we want to cover, including Persia. Zoroastrism had a big area of influence, but Mithraism spreaded much more further. And it is not that difficult to think in a Mithraist Rome, for example, though it's very dubious to think in the possibility of a Zoroastric Rome, or Egypt.

Hey, Talkie-Toaster, I have the exact same map in a book of mine ;)

Well, Mithraism might be an ok thing, it was the predecessor of contestant of Christianity. Under most to every Early Christian Church there was a Mithraic Temple (in Rome for example). Further, the "hat of the Pope" is derived from a "Anatolian/Persian/Mithraic" sheperd hat. So, Yeah, it would make sense, BUT Mithraism really came up at the height of the Roman Empire and was spread by it's soldier all around the empire (afaik, it came originally from persia). It is kinda late as a replacement for Judaism, isn't it?

And Imho it doesn't make sense at all to have Mithraism AND Christianity both at the same time in one city. They were "enemies".

mick

I vote for the Zoroastrianism... because we have all the graphics needed for it ;) .

If you want I can change Judaism for Zoroastrianism in a couple of hours...

To be perfectly honest, I'd prefer Zarathustra over Mithras. Zoroastrianism was well established throughout Persia and though Mithraism was influential, it seems a bit of a waste to use up a slot for what's basically a 'what if' religion.

This is my what if:
What if Persia becomes early on the centre of religion? Egypt, Greece and Rome, their natural allies, will convert to their religion, start earning those pesky "we like our brothers of faith" diplo bonus and there will be less wars against Persia, what will make them very strong, so they may have a chance to beat Arabs when they come.

And if you simply "give" a religion to Persia or Babylon (Zoroastrism was founded by 1700 to 1000 BC... before Persia spawns) the result will be on a uber-Babylon in Warlords or an uber-Persia in Vanilla... We all know what advantage is to have an early grab to a holy shrine. The religion replacing Judaism needs to have the chance to be founded on some place different from Persia. That's why Mithraism it's better, from my point of view.
Mithraism will be founded on 1st century BC, but it may be founded earlier, with a certain tech (Drama? Priesthood? Any suggestions, please). I think Drama it is the best choice, as long as Rome beelines for it, and makes sense, but you can argue.

The earlier period without religions on the area will mean the reign of paganism. Obviously, to not overpower Rome, Christianity should be coded to be founded either in Constantinople (representing Orthodoxy), Jerusalem (representing an acceptance of the Israeli of the Christian doctrine), or the area between them (the seven churches of Asia). After all, Rome became Holy City AFTER Jerusalem was lost to the Persians. That way, Christianity will have to spread to the Roman Empire, and also there will be a chance for other civs (Greece, Babylon and Persia, essentially) to grab it.

Here is some reference:
Wikipedia page of Zoroastrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrism)
Wikipedia page of Mithraism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism)

However, I think someone said some time ago that there was still an empty slot for a religion, so we may end to this controversy just adding both, don't you think? :)

I have the same problem with Mithraism as I do with Zoroastrism. If you can code Christian and Islam Nations to raze any city they capture with Zoroastrism and Mithraism, then I'd be happy.

And if we give them a number of inquisitor units? Twice of the number of Missionaries, if they get any?

After all, Rome became Holy City AFTER Jerusalem was lost to the Persians.

I have checked this wasn't exactly like this. Curiously, the Papacy was founded earlier than the city becoming "holy". Pilgrims started to go to Rome after the Donation of Pepin, in the early middle ages. This is little (OK, not so little;)) time later from Jerusalem being lost to the Arabs, in 638.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Pepin

About the offor to swap it, I would really apreciate it, I did try myself but I couldn't get it to work (I need more practice). If you did it would be ace :)

I'll try next month, after ending my exams, and some other nasty stuff that's eating most of my free time.

Thanks :) I would try again but my exams are comming up soon, so I dont get to spend very long playing it, never mind messing with files...

I'd vote for as many religions as historically relevant. I would leave in Judaism. Figure that it's missionaries spread by diaspora, but not effectively by conversion (that's realistic); So can it's spread be made especially slow versus other religions (hack)?

Adding in various pantheons makes sense to me too, as well as Zorastrianism.

I've been looking briefly the code from RFC, and some other gnereic code, and some ideas have popped around my mind. I still don't know if it's possible, but I'll tell you about them, so before I start working on them, we can have a more or less defined idea about them.

1st one: succesive religions. This is the most difficult, but I'm figuring more or less how to handle. The idea is: certain religions (Judaism) are succeded by other ones (Christianity). It would be possible to make the slot of Judaism to be used, by Christianity, and later on, for Catholicism. The slot for Christianity can be used for Solar polytheism, succeded by Zoroastrism, succeded by Mithraism, and finally, for Orthodoxy this one, just for geographical reasons). "Obsolete" religions may stay, but they won't be chosen as SR by any civilization. When a certain tech is discovered, the succesion is done, and there will be a percentage of chance for the city to convert to the new religion, and a pertage of losing it in the future. That way, we will have a dinamic "rise and fall" of religions, which, I think, it will fit with our mod wonderfully!

Second one: Conciliums. Using the code from Congresses, it should be possible to create a routine event, where civs from a certain religions will choose a "universal civic" much like in UN resoloutions, or declare a holy war against a certain civ. I need ideas fro more posible resolutions.

Cross post - mine now looks silly

We need religions that eat each other and are contingent on each other.

Judaeism could be a slowly-spreading religion with no missionaries. The first civilization to learn theology with a judaeism city gets the christian holy city.

Include animism. Animism is a religion that spreads fast to cities without other religions. It spreads slowly to cities with an animist state religion and other religions in it.

If a non-animist religion is in a city with an animist religion, there is a 10% chance that animism will be deleted, and a 10% chance that the other religion will be deleted. This never deletes holy cities.

There is no holy city for animism. Every city in the world starts out with an animist religion. Animism has no temples and monestaries, but you can build an animist shrine: the animist shrine produces 1 culture per turn, and survives even if the city no longer has animism.

Viola -- a minor religion.

Include animism. Animism is a religion that spreads fast to cities without other religions. It spreads slowly to cities with an animist state religion and other religions in it.

If a non-animist religion is in a city with an animist religion, there is a 10% chance that animism will be deleted, and a 10% chance that the other religion will be deleted. This never deletes holy cities.

There is no holy city for animism. Every city in the world starts out with an animist religion. Animism has no temples and monestaries, but you can build an animist shrine: the animist shrine produces 1 culture per turn, and survives even if the city no longer has animism.

Viola -- a minor religion.

Hmm... I see your proposal interesting, but too complicated. For the +1 :culture:, we have obelisks. And I just don't know how to make a religion appear and spread without holy city or missionaries. I think animism is irrelevant, it will get obsolete quite early, and will disturb the growing of other religions. The eixistance of animism is represented by the absence of any other religion. That's why you are pagan at the beggining. By adding solar polytheism, I add the possibility of appearing an early religion that had a huge impact on mankind. It will get obsolete early on certain areas (Europe), but not so early in other (America).

More about conciliums: you will need the holy shrine built, at least three civs converted to that religion, and all must have Theology. Should I add a certain precentage of spreading? This will negate the possibility of human players forcing conciliums to happen by sending two happy missionaries to America early on. On conciliums, the civ owning the holy city will choose the resolution to pass. The civs will vote with a prorrated number of votes corresponding to their percentage of converted population (thus, the holy city owner can be in minority). After passing the resolution, if accepted, the civs voting against the resolution will have as result being excommunicated. Excommunication will be reflected as losing your actual SR. You will have to wait 5 turns (as usual) to convert again to the former civ. Excommunication of a civ may be a resolution to pass, also. This is more or less how it will work.

solar polythiesm is pagan though

Religions in Civ represent uniform, organised belief systems. Animism is just a broad term to describe any belief systems that revolve around spirits.

1st one: succesive religions. This is the most difficult, but I'm figuring more or less how to handle. The idea is: certain religions (Judaism) are succeded by other ones (Christianity). It would be possible to make the slot of Judaism to be used, by Christianity, and later on, for Catholicism. The slot for Christianity can be used for Solar polytheism, succeded by Zoroastrism, succeded by Mithraism, and finally, for Orthodoxy this one, just for geographical reasons). "Obsolete" religions may stay, but they won't be chosen as SR by any civilization. When a certain tech is discovered, the succesion is done, and there will be a percentage of chance for the city to convert to the new religion, and a pertage of losing it in the future. That way, we will have a dinamic "rise and fall" of religions, which, I think, it will fit with our mod wonderfully!

Second one: Conciliums. Using the code from Congresses, it should be possible to create a routine event, where civs from a certain religions will choose a "universal civic" much like in UN resoloutions, or declare a holy war against a certain civ. I need ideas fro more posible resolutions.

These ideas sound very promising. Does anyone have an idea on how feasible they'd be?

The goal is to slow down the early spread of religions.

The middle east will have states whose state religion is Animism. This will slow down the spread of Indian religions into that area.

It is a strictly worse religion than the others, other than the ability to build shrines early on. It fights back some of the other early religions if it is your state religion, but it is hopeless against islam and christianity (reflecting the fact that those two religions wiped out the remainder of animism in the world).

Possibly one would need to hit polytheism to get a local minor Animist religion: the first one gets Hinduism, the rest get an Animist minor religion.

It fights back some of the other early religions if it is your state religion, but it is hopeless against islam and christianity (reflecting the fact that those two religions wiped out the remainder of animism in the world).

To make this, we have Zoroastrism. (Yes, I'm defending Zoroastrism! Who will expect it? :rolleyes:). In fact, animism it is not a religion for itself, just a name to a cathegory of cults with very different origin, and the only thing in common to worshipping spirits. For this, do you think that Japanese Shinto traditions, Mesoamerican shamanism, and African cults can enter in the same sack? And leaving out the TRUE religion that existed on the area? I feel not. It's just my opinion, though.

Looks like Vanilla version 1.95 is scrapped. I'll start with the Modcomp in Warlords. However, until now, it crashes to desktop -don't know why. I'll upload it after giving it a review, if I can't find the problem, so you can take a look. Maybe I'm forgetting something, and it's in front of my nose.

have ya checked for spelling mistakes? everytime I change anything I have to look through it about three times changing spellings before it works, the drawbacks of dyslexia hey ;)

It was more shameful. I forgot to convert the dds files from the bmp I've been using to modify them... :blush: . Now I keep revising the files, and I'm adding some new artwork I find. Everything should be working in little time.
As a note, the first version I will release will require the "Decipher me or I'll devour you MODCOMP", because I downloaded and installed it before I've started modding. I will add a second version for the standard RFCW a few days later. However, I strongly recommend that modcomp, the sphinx is really cute!

yeah, I like the picture of the cat the best ;)

It was more shameful. I forgot to convert the dds files from the bmp I've been using to modify them... :blush: . Now I keep revising the files, and I'm adding some new artwork I find. Everything should be working in little time.
As a note, the first version I will release will require the "Decipher me or I'll devour you MODCOMP", because I downloaded and installed it before I've started modding. I will add a second version for the standard RFCW a few days later. However, I strongly recommend that modcomp, the sphinx is really cute!

Yeah, make the Sphinx mandatory! Let's spreed it so Rhye need to put it in the Oficial RFC Version with Zoroastrianism! :cool:


PS: yeah... I like dreams ;_;

Sadly, I just can't find what going wrong. The game crashes when loading the engine, so it's not related to the XML or Python. What could it be? I don't know... :( . Here you have the link to download it, so you can take a look and maybe you can find what I'm forgetting, misunderstanding or blowing up. Remeber that you need the Sphinx mod.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/103080/Zoroastrism.rar

I guess I will start with the other option: the Orthodoxy. That will help me in one way: as long as I won't need new graphics, it will help me to find if the graphics I used for Zoroastrism were the corrupt issue.