While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Time (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Prince
Starting Era: Medieval
Map Size: Large
Map Type: Highlands
Speed: Quick
Civ: Any
Opponents: Must include America (Roosevelt), America (Washington), China (Mao Zedong), China (Qin Shi Huang), England (Elizabeth), England (Victoria), France (Louis XIV), France (Napolean), Germany (Bismark), Germany (Frederick), India (Asoka), India (Gandhi), Russia (Catherine), Russia (Peter)
Version: 1.61.010 or 2.08.003
Date: 10th March to 9th April 2007
Score at 2050 wins.

Prince... I can win on prince sometimes. This could be the one I've been waiting for!

Settings:

Victory Condition: To be determined (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Prince
Starting Era: To be determined
Map Size: To be determined
Map Type: To be determined
Speed: To be determined
Civ: To be determined
Opponents: To be determined
Version: To be determined
Date: 10th March to 9th April 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker

*scratches head* Now this one is the oddest gauntlet I've seen yet. :lol:

Perhaps they're waiting for the HoF-Update and then decide about the missing conditions.

Prince... I can win on prince sometimes. This could be the one I've been waiting for!
I noticed in your sig you're waiting for a G-Major to become a Quattromaster. I also know you're not the only one, so I thought I'd see if I could generate some excitement by announcing early that the level is Prince.

Actually, I think we should make this one a festival of sorts where everyone participates. I'm actually not planning on a Minor for another month.

I noticed in your sig you're waiting for a G-Major to become a Quattromaster. I also know you're not the only one, so I thought I'd see if I could generate some excitement by announcing early that the level is Prince.

Actually, I think we should make this one a festival of sorts where everyone participates. I'm actually not planning on a Minor for another month.

@Superslug: Your thoughtfulness is so much appreciated! :goodjob:

I'm afraid I'm a little confused, tho' :crazyeye:. Does this mean we get to pick our own settings or do we wait until you decide what settings you would like?

Edit: Oh, never mind. I just noticed the start date is on the 10th, so naturally, we just have to wait. Bloody pain meds are making me a little disoriented. I'm not blonde, honest! :p

i certainly am excited, altho trying not to be too optimistic.

if you're looking for suggestions, a wise man (actually a Ph.D!!!) once posted this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5144586&postcount=40).

ps ignore the last three words on that post *giggle*.

i certainly am excited, altho trying not to be too optimistic.

if you're looking for suggestions, a wise man (actually a Ph.D!!!) once posted this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5144586&postcount=40).

ps ignore the last three words on that post *giggle*.

He just wants us to learn the joys of nuking the obnoxious Khan! :lol: It's part of a plot! :mischief:

Perhaps it's time to unveil a few more details to further whet the appetites of the Major starving.

is there any way to rename the leaders of AI civs? not that i want to include the names of any HoF staff on my list of intended nuke targets or anything out of revenge for any suspense. i'm just curious. :mischief:

Do I have to remove the BetterAI mod?
Do I get extra points for using the BetterAI mod, or does it just make it more difficult for me?
Thanks.

You need to use the HOF Mod (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php)in order to submit to the Hall of Fame. As long as you haven't modified anything in the Assets folders (ie. all mods in CustomAssets or Mod folders only), then the HOF Mod will ignore your other mods while in use.

Actually, I think we should make this one a festival of sorts where everyone participates. I'm actually not planning on a Minor for another month.

I haven't been here lately, but if you make this one not to big, and on a fast gamespeed, then I'll try to give it a go.

I second that, please no marathon time victory there! ;)

I haven't been here lately, but if you make this one not to big, and on a fast gamespeed, then I'll try to give it a go.

Preferably normal, quick is too quick. :please:

even normal feels too fast to me, i'm so used to epic! when i play MP with hubby on quick it's bizarro-world. but to me part of the fun of gauntlets is trying out new things. note that the words frustration, amusement, annoyance, challenge, and often random cursewords can be substituted for "fun" as appropriate. given a month to play around with it, i'm sure the game speed would be the least of my problems. *giggle*

C'mon, it's the 10th, what are the details? *prods with a sword*. :p

This Major is already Prince level, I'm not going to make it too easy.

This Major is already Prince level, I'm not going to make it too easy.

... Uh, surely there has to be conditions, such as speed, et al.

... Uh, surely there has to be conditions, such as speed, et al.
Which will all be revealed when I update on the 10th. :)

<glances at calendar>....fudge....

It's the 10th, I have not played one of these in a while and now you have me hanging...Please help!

Do you actually have to win to submit games for Quattromaster/HOF?

Do you actually have to win to submit games for Quattromaster/HOF?Yeah, only famous winners in this Hall. ;) Don't forget to check out the rules and get the HOF Mod.

Final details have been posted. Have at it.

QUICK ON HIGHLANDS!?!?!

This will be a slow military strike on all civs in order to stop Space ships; I don't believe there will be enough time to destroy other civs so the trick will be to cripple the AI and then move onto the next target - perhaps vassals if playing on warlords?

... so the trick will be to cripple the AI and then move onto the next target - perhaps vassals if playing on warlords?

Remember that even vassals can still win by space, UN, etc., so making them a vassal in effect protects them from you. :mischief:

QUICK ON HIGHLANDS!?!?!
:confused: Should the difficulty or mapsize been higher?

Its a shame I cant finish a game on Highlands on Standard, let alone Large... :(

Well it is a major, so can't be too easy :lol:

Not sure that AI will launch on quick, prince highlands, so might be just the case of beating down a few and avoiding domination.

Remember that even vassals can still win by space, UN, etc., so making them a vassal in effect protects them from you.

Good point; maybe make demands on them so they can't improve their cities in order to win - or keep declaring war and have them worn down by WW.
The only way I know of to get rid of a vassal is to declare war on their neighbor; the neighbor will invade them first and usually wipe them out if you don't help.

Should the difficulty or mapsize been higher?
Maybe one size down as a large Highlands map is about the size of an average Huge map (it just seems that way, don't know if it's true or not). I think a few computers will struggle with this one (mine included).

I notice that the first 5 civs I would have taken are in the opposing civs. For this late start and quick speed I look at a civs unique unit.
Germans for tanks or Spanish for the Cosacks.

i was half-predicting always-war, must win by cultural. but i think this one is worse! i am not that brave *giggle* and *cry* at the same time. good luck to those who try!

And after my first attempt - the time to beat is 2050AD :lol:

i was half-predicting always-war, must win by cultural. but i think this one is worse! i am not that brave *giggle* and *cry* at the same time. good luck to those who try!

I once suggested an always-war gauntlet (diplo though) but Superslug said that the server doesn't check if a game is AW at the moment, so that isn't possible without lots of work for the staff.

Anyway, Large Highlands? I just altered some settings on my :badcomp: that make it run a little bit better, but I'm sure that this is too much for it.

But I do think that on quick, with medieval start, on highlands, Prince AI won't launch fast.

Typically, I'd expect a medieval start to put everyone behind a few dozen turns compared to ancient - at least that's what it was like in the renaissance minor.

On prince you can't guarantee an AI launch before 2050 anyway (but not the contrary either), and considering that we have a large amount of civs, I'd expect them to slow down even more thanks to crowding and wars.

Not having played prince in a while, I'd expect the AI most likely not to launch before 2050 in this one. So I'd try playing mostly a domination game, hitting the brake in time. Won't hurt to keep troops around for an emergency conquest though. ;)


Those settings are final, right? Or is anything going to change because of too high system requirements?

I suggest Agressive AI for those that want inter-ai wars. Due to the massive amounts of space, I didn't get a single ai war up to 1500 AD, which was where I stopped because my comp was starting to struggle.

Unfortunately, aggressive AI only makes them more aggressive towards the human player, by adding a hidden -5 to relations. Or so I've heard... :-/

Those settings are final, right? Or is anything going to change because of too high system requirements?

These settings should be final, as players have already learned the requirements and began playing.

I don't know if i'll have the time for this (just submitted 2 badly-played games during last 2 weeks), but there're for sure 2 things i dislike:
- quick speed
- medieval start

in addiction, an hihgland/large can slow-down my PC, and it's very difficult avoid an AI launch without a lot of wars to cripple them.
True, you can fight with gunship and bombers, but with a med-start you'll not be able to gain the advantage you need to avoid AIs get rocketry.

My opinion is that a monarch difficulty at epic with an ancient start was far better, and that those maps are too large.

Luck i don't need a gauntlet for my quattromaster.

Question: there will be an HOF update at 03/25 also if this gauntlet closes 04/09?

Unfortunately, aggressive AI only makes them more aggressive towards the human player, by adding a hidden -5 to relations. Or so I've heard... :-/

I've seen more inter-ai wars with agressive AI than I have with regular AI, so I think you have misheard.

Great! A time victory with a sensible deadline ;) I'll definitely give this one a try.

Last time I said the later turns in time victories take so long to play someone said I wasn't whistling Dixie. Hmm. I have no idea what that means. But for me, time victories take time. So this is great :)

Question: there will be an HOF update at 03/25 also if this gauntlet closes 04/09?

Yes, the HoF Tables (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php) are regularly updated around the 10th and 25th of every month, whether a gauntlet is due than or not.

Thanks for your answer, Methos, and congrats and best luck with your new commitment.

Methos, and congrats and best luck with your new commitment.

Thanks!

Well, I tried several starts, but just did manual regens for now. Every start sucked! I played one out for about twenty or thirty turns before giving up on it. Looks like this one is going to be all Mapfinder for me.

My favorite trait combo for this sort of game was assigned as an opponent too.

Anyone else having better luck!

someone said I wasn't whistling Dixie. Hmm. I have no idea what that means

that's one of those phrases that i know what it means but i have no idea WHY it means what it means. i never stop to think about them until someone not familiar with them asks. always amuses me to find out how much i don't know about the language i use every day.

anyway, i live in the southern US. when we say "you ain't just whistlin' Dixie" it means you're not just humming a tune, or doing mindless chatter. it means kind of "now you're talking!", you're making sense, you have a point. does that help, or make it clear as mud?

Anyway, Large Highlands? I just altered some settings on my :badcomp: that make it run a little bit better, but I'm sure that this is too much for it.

Perhaps you should try tweaking some of the map settings, such as large lakes and use all the tricks you can think of to reduce map area. That might help. I have the same problem - my system struggles on Large Highlands. Disconnecting from the internet physically, shutting down A/V and Firewall might give you a bit more juice. Of course, shutting down the A/V isn't terribly recommended, but it just might give you enough juice to work with. :scan:

And go on the warpath, destroy all the AI you can while avoiding the domination limit. Less for the computer to do.

Turn off the sound. A lot of cpu cycles are eaten up by sound requirements, I was told. I wouldn't know, since I don't use sound.

Quick speed is probably a blessing for a Time victory.

Large Highlands sounds fun, but I didn't just come off minor16 (because I don't have warlords.) Those people are probably tired of Large Highlands again.

I probably won't play this one only because I promised myself to stop CivIV for a while. Also, your QScore is not going to break any records.

This may indeed be the one I've been waiting for! Quattromaster here I come...maybe...I hope...maybe not...well, we'll see...

I notice that the first 5 civs I would have taken are in the opposing civs. For this late start and quick speed I look at a civs unique unit. Germans for tanks or Spanish for the Cosacks.

I'm afeared that superslug has deliberatly nerfed the best options for late game military business. No Cossacks, no NAVY Seals, no Panzars. The one loophole I can see is playing in Warlords as Churchill and go for the Protective Redcoats. I'm thinking Spain for the Conquistidors for early expansion and upgrade to cavalry followed by helicopters for pillaging later on or aternatively the Ottomans and going for the all-rounder Janissaries as soon as possible. I'm considering the former as helicopters are going to be very useful on a highlands map.

Peter in Warlords would have been my choice, Bismark and Washington second and third. Trying to decide between Spain, Ottomans or Korea now.

I'm playing the gauntlet now, and I think there's a good possibility that the AI will manage a launch if left alone. I think I'm going to do this gauntlet in vanilla in hopes that the AI will tech slower.

I'm thinking maybe Japan would be ideal for this with that Samurai, at least for a little bit. I'll have to give it a try and see what happens.

does that help, or make it clear as mud?

It helps :) Thanks.

anyway, i live in the southern US. when we say "you ain't just whistlin' Dixie" it means you're not just humming a tune, or doing mindless chatter. it means kind of "now you're talking!", you're making sense, you have a point. does that help, or make it clear as mud?

I've always loved trying to figure out word origin and phrases from different areas. I have NO training in this and this is just a random idea not a fact but I'm wondering if maybe it could come from...

Enlistment for the South in the Civil War...?

I was thinking along the lines of you aren't just singing the patriotic song you are actually putting your actions behind your words.

I'm afeared that superslug has deliberatly nerfed the best options for late game military business.
Interesting. What I actually did was choose the all the pair of same Civ leaders from Vanilla minus the Mongols. Guess I got lucky on this one. :D

The term "whistling 'Dixie' " is a slang expression analogous to idleness or nonsense. Examples: "Don't just sit there whistling 'Dixie!'" (as a reprimand against inaction); "You ain't just whistling 'Dixie!' " (in support of an argument).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. :blush:

I still think mine makes more sense though! :lol:

Guess I got lucky on this one. :D

*must restrain mind from running with that comment*

The term "whistling 'Dixie' " is a slang expression analogous to idleness or nonsense. Examples: "Don't just sit there whistling 'Dixie!'" (as a reprimand against inaction); "You ain't just whistling 'Dixie!' " (in support of an argument).

bizarrely enough, i have never heard it used like the first example. whether that shows that i do not tend towards idleness/nonsense/inaction, or that folks don't tend to use it that way down here, is left as an exercise to the reader :lol:

idly yours, KMad "Nonsense" Candy

Interesting. What I actually did was choose the all the pair of same Civ leaders from Vanilla minus the Mongols. Guess I got lucky on this one.
What annoys me with this (and I'm sure it was deliberate) is when someone says 'Stop trading with the Germans' you have no idea which German Leader they are referring too. If you could view the Diplomacy screens to which German they were refering too then that would help, but you can't :eek:

I'm afeared that superslug has deliberatly nerfed the best options for late game military business. No Cossacks, no NAVY Seals, no Panzars. The one loophole I can see is playing in Warlords as Churchill and go for the Protective Redcoats.
Ummm ... nice guess :D Yes I did take Churchill for the Redcoats.

I'm sure that Superslug used 'Holly' (Computer from Red Dwarf) to work out what could stuff us up the most on this one :lol:

Well, just watched my first game turn to custard. Heart wasn't really in it to be honest, more of an experiment to see how it would play out. Best bit is that on Quick speed not too much time has been wasted.

With all thsoe extra civs, I expected to get hemmed in quickly. However, the map took quite a while to fill up. Settler spamming early on may be a possibilty just so long as you can find suitable terrain to get cottages down quickly to save your failing economy.

This slow expansion by the AI, coupled with quick speed and slow terrain, meant that by the time I had a target and my stacks had got into place they were nearly obsolete. Therefore, my choice of Spain for its Conquistidors maybe wasn't the best option. Also, crossing enemy terrain with siege engines takes an age on these settings

So, what to do now? My thoughts are coming back round to Mehmed and his groovy Janissaries. Expansive means cheap graneries which means fast early growth. Organised means cheap courthouses and reduced civic costs which means bigger empires are more feasible. Janissaries can be beelined to act as an early defensive deterrant.

However, this strategy alone won't win it. Even if I can get the biggest empire and keep up with the AI in techs, pretty soon somebody is going to either build the spaceship or the UN. War has to be on the cards and speedy war at that. Option one is pillaging and just starving my opostion back down the ladder. Option two is waiting for Modern Armour, Mechanised Infantry and Stealth Bombers and trying to conquer late game. I'm not even sure if the latter option is possible but it might be fun to try.

Unfortunately, aggressive AI only makes them more aggressive towards the human player, by adding a hidden -5 to relations. Or so I've heard... :-/

I've seen more inter-ai wars with agressive AI than I have with regular AI, so I think you have misheard.

Actually it is -2 :p and also the AI thinks it is 33% stronger then it actually is when deciding whether to declare war on whomever crosses its path :rolleyes:

I finished my preparations and decided for Mehmet II (exp,org). Traits like imp or fin are also nice I think.
Because score counts this time, I took a look here How scoring works (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156242) and think more than 8k points are impossible, perhaps 7k will already win. Although, I don't have a good guess for the points from future tech and pop yet.
We should maximize pop of course and scratch the 51% land limit. That's why I decided for exp trait.
Because some proposed the AI would launch a spaceship before 2050AD, I added raging barbs to my game. That could give me around 20 more turns to intervene.
I'll set the map to clustered dense peaks with seas, so I can use e.g. canyons to give me an edge in war. It also reduces the effective food counting for max pop.
A source of iron would be nice, stone seems unimportant without ancient wonders. Does anyone have other ideas for the starting position?

Hmmm. Time.

I´ve never gone for that before.

Any tips anyone on what strategy should be adopted?

G-Minor 12 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198506) was also a time victory. that thread contains some of the strats people used to avoid triggering the other victory conditions. note that it's not the same situation by far, since it was on chieftain difficulty. but it might be worth a read if you didn't see it at the time.

i think that the percentage of land tiles that triggers domination varies by the number of starting civs. i'm not at all sure how to get a sense of a "safety buffer" to know that you'd not hit it, the way they did in that game, on this map.

G-Minor 12 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198506) was also a time victory. that thread contains some of the strats people used to avoid triggering the other victory conditions. note that it's not the same situation by far, since it was on chieftain difficulty. but it might be worth a read if you didn't see it at the time.

i think that the percentage of land tiles that triggers domination varies by the number of starting civs. i'm not at all sure how to get a sense of a "safety buffer" to know that you'd not hit it, the way they did in that game, on this map.

There are alerts in a section of the HoF log that warn you when you're close to the domination limit, the CivLerts section.

i'm not at all sure how to get a sense of a "safety buffer" to know that you'd not hit it, the way they did in that game, on this map.

There are alerts in a section of the HoF log that warn you when you're close to the domination limit, the CivLerts section.

As DeafDolphin mentioned, one of the mods included (Civ4 Alerts v1.3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157088)) can be located in the Options menu under the HoF 1 tab. I've provided a screenshot below for you. Please notice that there are drop down boxes for gold trade, gold per turn trade, domination land, and domination population. You may set them as you wish.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/Civ4_Alerts.JPG

What annoys me with this (and I'm sure it was deliberate) is when someone says 'Stop trading with the Germans' you have no idea which German Leader they are referring too. If you could view the Diplomacy screens to which German they were refering too then that would help, but you can't :eek:

i found out the other day that you actually can!

i always hit F4 to get the diplo screen, and that doesn't work while you're talking to them. but you can still hit the scroll of paper thingie up in the row of icons at the upper right to see that screen, during the demand. not the same as interrupting the jerk to say "what do you think of fred, what do you think of bismarck", but you can usually figure out which one is on his hit list by checking out the screen. this works in warlords, i haven't tried it in vanilla yet, recent discovery.

hubby taught me that one. and he hardly ever plays civ4, go figure!

What annoys me with this (and I'm sure it was deliberate) is when someone says 'Stop trading with the Germans' you have no idea which German Leader they are referring too. If you could view the Diplomacy screens to which German they were refering too then that would help, but you can't.

Ohh yeah, that's been bugging me a lot too. Well, there's a LOT about this that bugs me (and after starting about two dozen games, I've quickly come to the conclusion that I probably won't be successfully completing this Major...) but what can ya do.

i always hit F4 to get the diplo screen, and that doesn't work while you're talking to them. but you can still hit the scroll of paper thingie up in the row of icons at the upper right to see that screen, during the demand.
hubby taught me that one. and he hardly ever plays civ4, go figure!

:bowdown:

Thank you! (and especially your hubby) - I do go for a lot of diplomatic victories and this is the biggest thorn in my side :mad:

Second attempt much better than the first but still way off the mark. Lost to a spaceship launch with 50 turns still left to play. I was in the progress of knocking Catherine off top spot and turning all my land in farmland but still doesn't deal with the annoyance of somebody, right over the other side of the map, flying off to Alpha Centuri.

Good news, Ottomans are top banana. Cheap graneries and courthouses are great to kick start an empire and makes the land grab business work well. I comforatbaly had the largest land area right form the outset. The ability to build hammams right from the outset is also cool as the two extra happiness it provides allows you to grow without worry too much about hooking up distant resources.

Bad news, Prince difficulty or not this is tough. Probably the biggest problem is the speed. Quick means that by the time you've built a big enough stack and got it into position there is a fair chance it will have become obsolete or you'll have lost any advantage you had. This is especially true when taking cities pre-flight as you have no way to bombard/cause collateral damage with fast moving units dragging your stack down to the speed of the slowest siege engine. With your neighbours that isn't a problem but getting over the other side of the map to stop somebody is going to be tricky.

Next attempt? Well, I like the Ottomans but this time I'm going to beeline for Cavalry and try using them unaided to take out/vassalise a neighbour or two. I can't take too much, however, as I don't want to risk triggering domination. Next I have to figure a way to slow down the other civs. I figure there are three options.

Firstly, I could just try pillaging with helicopters as soon as I get them and keep it up for the duration of the game. This will require Police State, Jails and Mount Rushmore to fix war weariness and I'll alos need some sort of buffer to stop them just invading.

Secondly, I could try and engineer some wars between civs but there is no guarantee that that's going to work and it'll be quite tricky to get enough people to pick on the toughest nations.

Thirdly, I could just try the nuclear option. However, unless I can get control of the UN this is a nonstarter and potentially a huge waste of hammers tied up in ICBMs I can't fire. Also, fire them too early and global warming is going to stuff everything up, fire them too late and it won't do enough damage.

My other quandry is whether to go for a CE or SE. I used the former last time (as I often do) but I ended up building farms over them all later in the game. A SE means less investment in tiles and the potential for larger cities early on but it also requires Caste System to work well and also Representaion once available. This means rushing buildings becomes impossible. What to do?

Anyway, my observations to date. Any commnets/suggestions greatly recieved as any way I can avoid spending my entire month sweating over this would be nice.

Thirdly, I could just try the nuclear option. However, unless I can get control of the UN this is a nonstarter and potentially a huge waste of hammers tied up in ICBMs I can't fire. Also, fire them too early and global warming is going to stuff everything up, fire them too late and it won't do enough damage.


The UN says that you can't build them, you can still fire them though. So build up your stockpile and fire after the UN resoloution with the knowledge that your opponent can't fire back unless they also have them stockpiled.

James

The UN says that you can't build them, you can still fire them though. So build up your stockpile and fire after the UN resoloution with the knowledge that your opponent can't fire back unless they also have them stockpiled.

Thank you. I learn something new everyday. Means beelining Fission and then rushing those ICBMs out as soon as possible, sitting ready to get thrown at some poor unsuspecting AI.

I assume by win on time you have to be leading in points on the last turn not just surviving until the end? right sorry this doesnt happen to me much.

I thought this map type brought out the best of civ with true world wars. It shows just how weak the civ ocean treatment is when the chaos of a 10 way war breaks out.

Lot of fun. I tried it with one city challenge and raging barbarians and aggressive aI. Raging barbarians is insane on this map and this speed. That was an error. One city challenge was an error if i need to lead the score =) It was fun though i recommend those 3 settings with these conditions if you want an amusing challenge.

Oh I dont know what it was but none of the civs were going to be winning with aggressive AI and raging barbarians. I think it was the aggressive AI that did it.

BTW one more question as a newb to warlords and HOF. On the game I used once can I reload it for brevity and hit the "reload map" or whatever that button is called and is that then a legal new attempt. I mean just for brevity.

barb spawning rate is a function of how many fogged tiles there are out there. Highlands with 14 civs starts with a lot of open space so I would imagine the barbs would be pretty crazy on raging. I just play with no barbs and build cities with warriors defending. I'm still trying to think of a good way of crippling the AI's space flight attempts.

aggressive AI seemed to do it tbh. That and dont pick the leader as a trading partner. In general the best habit is to be the enemy of the number 1 civ.

I'd considered raging barbs but frankly I'm too much of a chicken. I found that with no barbs I didn't get any xp or ready made barb cities, both a bonus. I hadn't thought about Agressive AI but I can see how that would work just so long as you can appear meanacing enough to any potential attackers.

The aggressive AI was managable, and seemed to have a positive effect on keeping the AI from prosuing a peaceful solution. The raging barbarians is a bigger problem for you then the AI because of AI bonuses. I wouldnt do it as a strat from my experimentation. Its painful on that map.

BTW one more question as a newb to warlords and HOF. On the game I used once can I reload it for brevity and hit the "reload map" or whatever that button is called and is that then a legal new attempt. I mean just for brevity.

You can reload the start file and regenerate the map from there for a legal HOF-entry - BUT there is a bug in the Highlands Map you should be aware of: you'll end up with a deforested map with fewer food and strategic resources and very few happiness resources for some reason, on second thought: I doubt the AI will make it to Alpha Centauri that way :lol:

that might explain things... i had pressed that button a few times cause on a highlands map the starting positions can be pretty bad versus pretty good. Hmmm are you sure of this bug always taking effect?

Oh speaking of annoyances there is issues with two leaders from the same base nation...

When another civ approaches you to go to war against another civ the message is "join us in destroying the americans" but it doesnt tell you which americans...

Hmmm are you sure of this bug always taking effect?


I just tried it - since it had not yet been reported in the bug reports:
it only occurs when you leave the game, i.e. if you just reload without exiting the generation is normal. If you exit to desktop, then reload the save and regenerate it always produces two python exceptions which are related to some resource/feature placements not defined and results in the map described above (there may be some forest at the starting positions - these are put there independently)

Oh speaking of annoyances there is issues with two leaders from the same base nation...

When another civ approaches you to go to war against another civ the message is "join us in destroying the americans" but it doesnt tell you which americans...

I think that one might have been part of the masterplan. ;)

ahh so my way to avoid reputting all those civs in the custom game is wasted! sigh.. doubt they will ever bug fix that now since its so late in the cycle.

@Jeremiah
I think that KMadCandy posted somewhere in this thread that you can click on the foreign advisor button in the top right corner to check it.

Mh, I regenerated the map they way you described and now that I think of it you're right.
Does this mean I cannot submit the game or is it legal?
I'm in the middle of the game and really don't want to stop it now.

Does this mean I cannot submit the game or is it legal?


That is a question to the threadstarter :rolleyes: but I'd like to know this as well: would it be legal, accidentally or not :mischief:, to use this bug to generate a woodless highland on which probably the AI will struggle because it looses its production bonus on chopping and a lot of health and happiness resources?
If yes I'll try this just to see whether my prediction that the AI won't reach Alpha in time is correct :)

Just to compare with anyone if you already have progressed game:
In 1680AD they all have liberalism, nationhood and gunpowder.

Btw: Avoid trading research, especially monopol techs. You want gloabal research to be as slow as possible.

That is a question to the threadstarter :rolleyes: but I'd like to know this as well: would it be legal, accidentally or not :mischief:, to use this bug to generate a woodless highland on which probably the AI will struggle because it looses its production bonus on chopping and a lot of health and happiness resources?
It's being discussed. You can try it and submit if you want, but if we decide it's overpowerful to exploit that bug, a rule change could invalidate the submission.

I didn't realize that bug. I regenerated my first save for my second attempt and I got a starting position that was almost all grasslands. And I was just thinking the RNG gods were happy with me!

My next 3 cities were also close to all grasslands (plus a few hills for production). You can make a lot of beautiful cities if you do regenerate a highlands map, since it's basically just hills, grasslands, and peaks.

Any idea on if regenerated maps are going to be banned for this gauntlet?

I've been doing this with no knowledge of the bug. Oh well luckily I never win anyway so it shouldn't matter for me. :)

The bug is only highlands though, correct? It is still not a risk to do this on any other map type?

The bug is only highlands though, correct? It is still not a risk to do this on any other map type?

AFAIK this is only highlands, the error that occurs is that some lines in the highlands mapscript are missing/undefined so it should not affect other maps and I have never experienced this in other maps either...

Any idea on if regenerated maps are going to be banned for this gauntlet?
Regen maps are fine. My understanding is that this bug only happens if you close Civ, so it should be easily avoidable.

And something the developers should fix. I guess the staff has a certain relationship to them.

I guess the staff has a certain relationship to them.
Not really actually...

i re-read this after typing it and should preface it by saying it's not a whine. i am having fun (much more than i expected) trying it. i hope it doesn't read as a whine, or as "omgz play teh game 4 m3!!one!". i really had fun in the g-minor 15 thread, we all shared tips and got better, that's the sort of thing i'm looking for. i ended up improving my score by 1500+ years i think :eek: ! maybe i can do that in this one too ... oh wait. anyway...

i decided to go ahead and try this one, altho med era start and quick speed are both completely foreign to me. add in that i can't be any of my usually preferred favorite leaders. i'm utterly lost about how i'm doing compared to how i ought to be doing. no sense of "ok, this game will likely turn out to be a success" attempt is at certain points, or "this one's a goner".

i have ZERO sense for if i'm behind long-term-picture sense. my tech rate is fine and dandy and ahead of them, i stretched out liberalism to take cavalry, blah blah. i know that on a typical prince game that i set up myself (choice of leader, not this hideous map, epic speed) i'd easily win spaceship before they could and could likely prevent them from launching, and last until 2050, altho i've never tried that, and this map would be a pain there. with this map setup, speed, and starting era, tho, i have no reference point. i also have this ingrained "must be really ready before i start wars" thing so i don't tend to crush folks early. crushing some of the 14 early surely must be the only way to go here but that's my own problem.

one game that i ended up tossing later, i'd met only 7 or so rivals by 1100 AD (was trying to MAKE myself concentrate on a cathy-crush). the current attempt i had met all 14 well before then. i really don't like this map! not just the exploration factor. i can't get mapfinder to work for me -- i end up making the setting too general (it gets everything) or too specific, so i do it manually while reading a book (oops, again my own problem).

i am going to play this current game out, to see how they do on this map (haha roosevelt's on a one-tile island and had only one city even after i'd discovered paper *gloat*), timeline, and game speed. it will give me one view of how the big picture turned out, and it's a learning experience. the game is quite a bit more fun (so far...hasn't been a ton of attempts yet ;) ).

can anybody give me a hand as far as the big picture? are there checkpoints where you feel "this is a good one" or "ooph maaaaaaybe not"? if you say you discover CS by 200 BC, or build the oracle, i will not believe you :P

Well I had an idea how to do this, tried it out and was very successful, except for the fact I had no idea about resource requirements for the crucial element of my plan. :lol:

I was actually going to see if my strat was successful or not before posting but here goes from my unsuccessful attempt...

Leader: Wang Kon of Korea, for financial and beaut UB and UU, protective helps as well.

Research: Civil Service, Paper, Education (first GS), Philosophy (was trying to get trade but had to self research and founded Taoism), Engineering (ditto trade), Gunpowder, Chemistry, Liberalism and the big daddy of the plan Steel (from Liberalism).

My plan was to then go on a cannon spree. At this stage of my game no-one else had Gunpowder even and the only tech I would trade around was Philosophy (which I used to trade for techs like Feudalism, Theology etc, which I traded as much as possible).

Problem: Cannons require iron, which I was unaware of before this. I had none :mad: and no-one was connected up to trade with so game over man :lol:

Anyway, that's how I'm going to try and win this. Whether it works or not, another question :p

I've attempted this game about 4 times and each time I start of with the most points and then slowly get passed even though I am teching quite good.

Another problem I have, which has now put me off playing this major (unless I get some usefull tips) is that my computer starts going real slow between turns after I discover the whole map. Now my computer is not old and should be able to handle this. Is there anything I can do or turn of in the options that will make my computer run faster?

I had a game where both Frederick and Bismark ended up on one-square islands to themselves. So they weren't threats at all. So I've come to the conclusion that if EVERY civ (except mine) was stuck on one-square islands, I might actually win! Though frankly...I'd still probably find a way to lose...

On the flip side, I DID manage to get the mother of all starting positions on one game, with my capital's radius containing iron, horses, wheat, sheep, and two silk, and with stone, copper, and more sheep not too far off. I actually had a fantastic game going...right up until Catherine decided to destroy one of my cities. That was an annoying feeling too...being able to see her coming (two elephants, a catapult, and three crossbowmen), knowing she's about to declare war and attack my city, and knowing I can't do squat about it!

So now I'm off to try again, hoping to get another equally good starting location!

Oh, and does anyone have any suggestions for which civ might be good for this? I'm playing Vanilla, and have been mostly trying it with Saladin. Philosophical/Spiritual is a combo I'm fairly comfortable with, and Camel Archers don't require horses, and so far I've only had ONE game with horses (where do the camels come from, is what I'm wondering...).

i'm afraid to do it in vanilla since i'd have to face pre-nerf cossacks *shudder*. in warlords tho there is exactly one choice of philo leaders...alex.

i tried mehmed and he was really good. expansive is nifty, dirt cheap workers and granaries and +2 health in every city; organized is killer for expenses and the cheap courthouses are yay! his UU's pretty cool too, i don't usually like musket UUs since you have to build 'em from scratch but those jans are awesome if you're first to gunpowder. his UB rocks too, +2 free happy in an aqueduct, and you have the tech from the start. he was really good ... i was not. i'm really really not a warmonger by nature, that game i really bombed.

i decided against creative from the very start, after having read the g-minor 12 thread and playing my own after-the-fact version of it. but i think hitting the dom limit won't be a big fat deal in this game; this map is junk, and that game was on such an easy level, plus i don't care about high score relative to you guys, i just want to survive to 2050 and beat the AIs if at all possible. i'm just about the only person who's never played as rome; gus as creative/org might be someone i try.

edit: the more i look at the charts of UBs the more i see ways to make up for creative, and i'm guaranteed the jewish holy city after all. huayna's terrace is creative without the cheap buildings, and shaka's ikhanda helps city maintenance (altho not civics like organized directly does), but both UUs will hardly get used with this starting era, and i've been grabbing GLib with a GE so industrious i doubt i'd get much use out of (insert *grumble* here from missing statue of liberty by 4 turns last time) ... too many choices, but too many limitations, /sigh. i wanna be india for their UU dangit!

next try tho i think i want to be churchill. protective redcoats sound wicked fun, and cheaper promotions are always spiffy, but how will i not go broke??? hannibal's trait combo seems so nifty, fin/char, but the UU and UB are a complete waste, which is such a shame.

oh and i got the mother of all starting positions...the mother*mumble* that is. on an iron hill (desert, not plains, but can't have everything), flood plain goodness, some forests and hills, cows and corn or something, stone outside the ring, some silk/spice happy thing i forget, and throw in gems in the corner where my BFC wouldn't catch it. i cursed, cursed some more ... because i was literally at the farthest northeast corner of the map. that tiptop corner, move diagonal 2 down, that's where i was. it would be a great spot for a capital once i was running bureaucracy ... but hell for distance from palace! and once i move the palace, there goes the bur bonus, so grrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrr. i didn't want to be locked into a forbidden palace location too early on so i sighed and hit regen.

I just started in this one, and things really take ages. Playing as (vanilla) Toku, it's 11xx AD, we got 7 cities, and still lots of land to backfill.
Research-wise, we're holding a paper monopoly after having traded CS only a few turns ago, and have about 300 beakers put into Education. So if anyone is looking for comparison dates, the best I can offer is: ~1000 for paper, 800ish to CS.

@Drool:
I've heard that turning the sound completely off helps. I don't have that much of a problem performance-wise, but I think I can comfirm that.

Has anyone come close to a domination at quick medival large maps? I can see how it would be close to pulling this off but my adventures in trying to conquer this map at this speed havent been good.

warning: don't read this if you're drinking, you may need windex for your monitor.

the other day's game, i kept wondering why my capital (which i'd moved 2 squares from the intial start) sucked so hideously bad, even after an academy. finally on turn 160, out of 320 total turns ... i realized that i'd never changed to bureaucracy. i was doing something at the time and didn't want to lose a turn of anarchy, and then just kind of forgot afterwards...

even for a permanoob that ranks as one of the all-time blunders anybody has ever made in any sid meier game i'm sure. does that earn me an exemption to play this one at court jester level? :rotfl:

so just to clarify, if I'm playing a highlands map that's bugged into deforested mode, I shouldn't continue the game and start a new one instead?

so just to clarify, if I'm playing a highlands map that's bugged into deforested mode, I shouldn't continue the game and start a new one instead?
Basically, yes...

I may give this one a go. Haven't done a major yet so I could use one for QM.
Problem is I hate highlands maps and my computer hates large maps...

Hello

Who were abel to win?
My probelm is that even I have the highest score the computer was win space race.

Who were able to win?
With what civ?
With wat highest score?

Who were abel to win?


Kain

:lol:

But I wanna now two.

I won with about 50-60 future techs.

Honestly, the civ you choose doesn't matter too much in this game. Just choose the civ that you're most comfortable warring with, as you'll be doing it a lot in this game. I was at war with 2 civs on average at any given time for most of the game (until I started hitting the future techs). The biggest hurdle is preventing a launch. All three of the remaining civs in my game reached composites by the end of the game...

If you want to endure the micro-hell, you can raze all but one enemy city to prevent a launch, but the map was already running slow on my computer so I just went the sabotage route instead. Not sure which will give a higher score, but the quasi-conquest method is probably easier if the turns don't take too long on your computer.

@KMadCandy

No, it just means you've joined the club :D

[QUOTE=shyuhe;5227142]I won with about 50-60 future techs. QUOTE]

:goodjob: Good for you. Having said I would try this one, I just couldn't face another tedious conquest job on highlands. You deserve your victory !

Umm... and I don't mean I would've had a victory if I'd tried. Just for the avoidance of doubt :blush:

I just couldn't face another tedious conquest job on highlands.

I definitely agree with this assessment - the first half of the game was fun, but the second half takes way too long. The second half was just making sure I didn't cross the domination limit, sending out spies, finishing build queues, and hitting enter. And hitting enter. I would try again if my computer were faster but 10 hours is pushing it for me when half of that time is spent just hitting enter :lol:

I don't know how others are approaching this gauntlet, but I killed one neighbor with mace/catapults, then took MT off the liberalism slingshot + gunpowder and conquered another 3 AI. By the time I finished the third (who was just getting to rifles), I had tanks so I used those for the rest of my conquest (with air support to destroy cultural bonuses).

It should be noted that the winners thus far will be visible on the tables with the next udpate.

damn it, i got two times beaten by the AI... first quin managed a space race victory 3 turns before time limit... and in the second i lost by 10 to lizzy...
both times i think i got to war way to late (around gunpowder)... finally in each game i had 2 or 3 civs i haven't got to war with because they were located at the opposite side of the map, and those managed to pull space race... *sigh*

Must be very frustrating Jean.
3 turns before max limit ist so close!
Didn't you have some nukes to help you out?

Jean, did you try bribing any of the other civs to war? That will slow them down and if you're lucky, you might trigger a dogpile too. In my game, Gandhi (#2 in score before war) was at war with half the remaining civs at one point because of dogpiling :D The AI can be so shameless sometimes...

not at this time anymore, i had a few... but i lost an election versus ghandi which led to nuclear bann... the major problem in both games where the starting positions, which where perfect for research but not good for going to war, so i delayed war quite a bit..

well i did lots of bribing into war in these games but most of the time it was no use... the ai's had only some small fight but never conquered a opponents city...

i think i will try one more time, but this time with a better staring position....

I did an early rush, then just continued expanding and conquering. If you research CS first and trade for machinery, you'll get maces before any other civ (except the one you traded with). Then you can crush any of the neighboring civs. The large map size also makes it easier to pay the upkeep of a "large" empire, so I didn't worry about maintenance costs until I finished off the first civ (and even then, was running research around 60-70%). Since you know you're going to get a holy city, trying to get spiral minaret is useful also. If you're spiritual, the cheap temples will make any newly conquered city pay for itself with just a temple.

The large map size also makes it easier to pay the upkeep of a "large" empire, so I didn't worry about maintenance costs until I finished off the first civ (and even then, was running research around 60-70%). Since you know you're going to get a holy city, trying to get spiral minaret is useful also. If you're spiritual, the cheap temples will make any newly conquered city pay for itself with just a temple.

large map size/maint cost connection: are they coded such that they impact each other? hmmz i guess the max number of cities part of it is always hard-coded so that would be a factor, i'd not thought of that.

i never did try (and won't, disheartened now and i know this won't be the one for me, back to fun games) a spiritual leader, on quick speed with even changing 5 civics at a time costing one turn it didn't seem worth it to me. but cheap temples + knowing i have a holy city is a good point.

i do still enjoy reading about what's working and not working for other people in their attempts. for those who don't mind sharing their secrets ;), what leaders are working working best for you, which don't you like? i of course will read the list knowing that each player has different strengths and what/who works for you might have failed miserably in my hands. highlands, quick, and med start are all so foreign to me that i learn a lot from all posts here, even the folks that post about their losses.

best moment of my last attempt: i had louis down to one city. he'd built it when i had him down to two cities, so it had only recently hit two population. it was one square from the eastern edge of the map, so was missing 3 tiles in the fat cross, but since his nearby cities were nice ones (including notre dame), easily defended, and would give me easier access to Frederick and Qin (Qin was for sure going to be an issue) that i'd not have had otherwise, i decided to go ahead and finish him off rather than leave him standing with those cities. probably a bad decision overall but that's history now, no replaying! New City was lovely even missing 3 squares, lots of it grassland river, some mines, a food resource, and forests the AI hadn't had time to chop!!

louis had been saving GPs for a golden age, and had wisely moved them to New City. after i took last Real City, he popped an Artist for a great work, brilliant move. i couldn't get troops there as fast now, and his cultural defenses shot up. so i move in, he sieged me some, and then i took New City down, and Louis was no more. i captured rather than razed the city, so that i can get to Qin later. altho the city has a population of only 1 now, it did in fact have a building in it ... a Military Academy! the siege exp gave him a last-minute general and he built the MA; good long-thinking on his part. i laughed sooooo hard.

one other thing, it's come up in other games but has hit quite frequently in this one, i think due to the size of the map and the number of cities on it. i only run into it on huge maps (altho large highlands counts as one IMO since there's no water) and late game so i don't generally worry about it. i've read tech support forum and tried all the solutions i found there but none are 100% reliable for me.

i didn't ever try this gauntlet in just one session, even i'm not that insane. but after a certain point, if i try to load a game, it freezes at the loading screen. i give it much longer than it would usually take (i mean i give it 5 minutes), then ctrl-alt-del end task), and try other ways to open it. sometimes double-clicking on the save itself loads it, more often starting civ4 and then loading another, much smaller game or earlier save of that game, and then loading the later save that i want, eventually, altho it sometimes takes multiple attempts at the same year.

does anybody else run into this? and if i did run into it in a game i intended to actually submit to HoF, would it look like reloads/replays of the same turns and then be ineligible? it's not, i never actually see that turn during those attempts but you guys have no way to know that, and i have no save files that are actually visible errors (as in the case of "out of memory allocation") to send in as proof. i don't think it'll happen unless the hypothetical magic major that i could feasibly win is on another map like this; it only ever hits me on huge (and large that act larger than large) maps in the late game.

just curious.

I've had my computer do some very strange things while attempting this gauntlet. The scariest moment I had was when my game nearly froze when I conquered a city. As the game progressed, the turns took longer and longer (I think I was running out of memory). Finally, my game froze for nearly 3 minutes after I conquered a city. I then saved the game, quit out and restarted my computer. After that, it was fine again until the game slowed down again. Basically I had to run the game in 3 hour chunks, or it would just become too slow.

As for strategy, I used Izzy. I love playing spiritual in general, and I think expansive is great in this game. Whipping out early granaries + lots of whipping in general = big payoff in the long run. And conquistadors are pretty awesome (although you can skip it and go to cavalry directly).

I tried going music first to bulb theology, but I think it's a riskier play as you need good tiles to win the music race.

and if i did run into it in a game i intended to actually submit to HoF, would it look like reloads/replays of the same turns and then be ineligible?

The only way we can really know for sure, is for you to submit the game. My apologies, but that's the best way.

nah that's cool methos. i don't think it'll actually come up, only way i'd even try is if it was a major that i thought i had a chance at. and the very first time it occurred i'd play thru the turn once i got it to load, then save at the end of that turn, and send it in with a note about what happened, detailing how many times i'd tried before i'd gotten it to load, to let y'all check it for the potential "no, sorry, but we'd never be able to really tell so it couldn't count." which of course i'd not hold against you.

if it ever does happen in a game where i'm running the mod and i think about it, i'll send it in as a test case with note etc, that'd work too.

ps i still haven't checked for that start file i owe you, i've been distracted and dizzy and frustrated at the pc, but you were very very kind to get back to me and i really am going to! :)

Hopefully I will win today, bu unfortunately I started the war to late woth cossacs and canons.
I beat 1 enemy and now it is time for tanks.

I think I will have to beat the 3rd one with modern armor.

Well I should finish this weekend. I'm not sure if I actually will win this gauntlet. I vassalized Washington when he still had too many cities and it looks like he may win the space race. I guess I'll see if I can instruct him into Future Techs to avoid Fusion.

I went with Hannibal for Financial and Charismatic. I have 2 cities producing a CR3, barrage tank each turn to keep the war going with cottages to try and get into the future techs. Its not the greatest combo on Highlands. I made a small lakes map which doesn't have any seafood so expansive would have been a better trait. Definitely not going to be a high score since my cities had big health problems until Refrigeration and Medicine.

I tried raging barbs to slow the AI but it didn't work very well. The barbs killed Louis (Paris was a barb city when my explorer found it) and slowed a few other AIs but that just left a large area for Asoka to eventually settle and become a monster.

I'm gonna play this one time, then I have a 2 week vacation. I chose Julius for his Organized trait. Japan is the other option, but Aggressive is useless. So is expansive really. In the end, you'll have dozens of future tech which gives +1 health/happiness.

Some milestones:
260 AD: Bureaucracy (so CS 1 turn earlier)
890 AD Education
1025 AD Gunpowder
1535 Oxford U
1910 AD Future Tech 1

I have about 90 turns to go.
I think I had a good start, but I've conquered too slowly in the last 50 turns. I would leave less desirable cities to the AI, but I should have just taken them all. I was worried I'd hit the domination limit, but I'm not even close.
I only have about 20% land. Maybe if I can double that in 40 turns I'll be ok.
Since I'm too small, my tech is slowing. I don't expect to get more than 40 future techs.

wow, 1910 for the first future tech! Impressive as always WastinTime. Here are my benchmarks (and man are they terrible in comparison!)

860 AD Civil Service
1375 AD Education
1585 AD Gunpowder
1966 AD Future Tech I

I think there is some merit in leaving the crappy cities to the AI. The better cities allow for more growth and you can grow a larger population in the end with the same number of land tiles. That is of course, assuming that your warmongering isn't production limited but rather time limited (it takes a long time for 2 move units to cross the map).

Organized is a good idea. I realized it towards the end of my game that I was paying a ridiculous amount for city maintenance and I was whipping lots of courthouses too... Maybe I will try this again with an organized civ, since praets = early rush :lol:

Currently we are having some technical difficulty with submitting games to the HoF site. We are working on it.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Thanks shyuhe. I haven't played a lot of games for Time, so the end game is unfamiliar. I have 50 turns to go now. I went back and cleaned up the cities I left for the AI I previously went to war with. Then I wiped out the #1 civ completely. Still only about 30% of the land. My tech rate increased faster than I expected. I'm getting a future tech every 1-2 turns now. I'll probably get 60+ of these instead of the 40 max I predicted.

One civ is buried deep in the opposite corner of the map and just built apollo. Seems like 50 turns is plenty of time to build the spaceship, so I guess I have to figure out how to stop them. (or is 50 turns not enough time? should I not worry? anyone?)

I play a game where I'm also in lategame. ~75turns to go (1954AD).
Opposite to WastinTIme I tried to delay global tech as much as possible.
They are actually researching Industrialism and flight, I wanna use the advantage of bombers&tanks to get rid of some/most AIs.
@WastinTime:
Can you post a global map? If I don't know how large the civ is, I cannot tell you if he can do it. But if he has more than 3 cities, I'd "take care" of the problem.

I abused spies at the end of my game. I was researching a future tech every turn so I had lots of gold left over. I just sent my spies over to harass space ship production. Honestly, I wouldn't risk a launch - it's very frustrating to lose at the end. You can always just raze their cities if they're far away. If you get 60+ future techs, you're definitely beating my score :D

Of the 14 opponents, I think I eliminated 9 by the end of the game. 3 were close to finishing the spaceship (I was sabotaging the engine continuously) and the other 2 had just completed the apollo program at the end of the game. I think the AI can launch in 50 turns if they've finished the apollo program (assuming they're not harassed).

My map is like a maze. A mountain range starts at the bottom and goes almost to the top. I've never been on the west side of that range. There are 4 civs over there that I've left alone, so they are all quite large and of equal size. I've kept them in war for a long time until they wiped out a 5th civ over there. Now, with 40 turns to go, I've got them all in war with each other. To get to Victoria (the leader), I'd have to go thru the other 3 civs. Luckily spys can do this even without open borders. I'll have to use your plan shyuhe. How often do you have to sabotage the engine? every turn? every 5 turns? How do you even know where the engine is being built?

This gauntlet is fun and educational, but I think the Diety one was easier and definitely faster.

I designated one spy for each of the three remaining civ (and the 4th was a floater). I would then just travel to each city of that civ to figure out where the engine/docking bay is being built. When you sabotage, I think it destroys half of the hammers that have been spent on production. So it's not very economical to sabotage every turn (although it costs more per attempt if more hammers have been divested). I basically tried to time it so that if my first attempt failed, I could send a second and third spy in time to stop the construction. I actually concentrated on the docking bay for most of the civs - they didn't have copper for some reason :D If they have copper, then I think the engine is the most expensive part. Hope that helps. Oh yeah, you may need a massive bank roll to sabotage for 40 turns...

Only one civ is getting thrusters out...30 turns to go, so no sabotage yet.

I have 50 turns to go now and four AIs started on some Thrusters and Casing atm. Is that ok or will I get in trouble?
Not counting the soon no-more americans around Roosevelt. I punished him for his rush for Spaceship parts.
I like modern warfare, it's as fast as you tanks can go with a huge fleet of bombers.
This game takes so much time. I hoped to finish it today, but no way.

This game takes so much time. I hoped to finish it today, but no way.

Just in case anyone's forgotten, this gauntlet does not end until April 9th. That should be more than enough time. ;)

I hate spies.

After a stressful finish I pulled out the Time win. Score 11340.

I sabotaged a few space parts for practice/fun. It took a few turns off. Seemed like spies would work well ...
When the critical larger space parts were about to be completed, I tried 3 sabotage attempts and lost them all. So some got built, and Peter only had 1 part left with 15 turns to go, and yes, he had the tech for it. I had no spies even produced, much less in the area. And on top of that, I had no idea where he would build the last part. So I had to get more cash. I probably wasted 10 turns generating cash. Because of that my Future Tech ended at only 52 instead of 60+. When I tracked down the Stasis chamber, my spies just sat there and watched because he was building the part too slowly. I never did use them. Important note: the AI doesn't seem aware of the deadline and rush the parts or build it in a city that will finish in time.

I also had a spy watching Vicky finish her last two parts simultaneously. One was built in 2050 and the other would have come out in 2051 I think. So I didn't use that spy either...(like it would have worked.)

I was only able to get around 42% land and I didn't do a very good job of building wonders. I would think that my score will get beat if someone has the time to kill. I'm done, but this was a lot of fun! Totally different game really. Luckily my system doesn't slow down at all on large maps. It just takes time to manage all the workers and wars.

my computer hates large maps...

Apparently it hates large maps so much that it decided to freeze up on me at about 1850 AD, when my tanks were picking of weak units from the 4 AI I was at war with...
Intraturns were taking 5-10 minutes each, so the game was boring as hell...


Maybe we can do a gauntlet on a smaller map sometime?

darkness i sympathize completely! i've given up too, partly because i feel like i won't win but partly because even if i could win my saves would look invalid i think since i have issues loading the game. i can't play in one sitting obviously, and it hangs when i try to load it up later, sometimes 3 times in a row, before the final ctrl-alt-del retry works. so i just don't wanna go thru the hassle.

i remember two separate times map size came up before. for a gauntlet that was on huge (g minor 12 maybe?), and someone asking why there isn't a QM category for each map size. cheers to the HoF staff for responding in each case that they know that not everybody's system is up to that. there is NO way that they'd make a category for each map size, and they certainly don't intend to use huge maps often.

i'm putting words into superslug's mouth so feel to smack me down if you want to, but i think he didn't foresee how long the turns would end up taking on this particular large map in a time victory game. highlands map is by definition so full of land. my only previous gauntlet experience trying for a time victory (altho i tried after it it was over) was the chieftain one on huge, i picked great plains like most folks. that one was huge and also full of land not much water, but actually felt smaller and seemed to go faster than this large highlands. i think partly because it took so much longer for the AI to start their "oh okay now's when i go build my little empire" stage at that lower level, and partly because only the one side was hills galore not all of it.

anyway, i know the intent wasn't to lock out those of us whose PCs get bogged down. and they know we only get 12 chances a year so i'm sure there'll be a smaller map again soon, last month's was standard size. i can't promise it'll be easy tho ;)

Well i decided to give a try to this, despite my post on page 2.
My PC has no problems, just a bit slow to move the explorer when it has to discover new tiles, and a long time between turns.
But: in my best try (until now) with Augustus Ceasar (great for both traits, pity for the UU that cannot be well employed), i arrived to CS in 530 AD, with 2 pretty good city sites.

Probably i can improve by some 10 turns, but Wastin'time dates are impressive.
I'm not able to figure which is the best strategy: in the above attempt i played a sort of farmer gambit, waiting cavalry to begin some conquest.
But now i'm at war with my first target, who vassalized to the 2nd civ in score (i'm the first one) BEFORE i took his capital.
In addiction another AI DoWed me on the same turn.
About techs, i'm fairly advanced, but not miles away, as you expect at this level.
I don't know if i'll go ahead or just try another start, for sure all that philo civs pump GP like mad, and this doesn't help.
Another option can be Saladin (phi/spi) in vanilla, but the org/creative is important.

For sure, reading this thread this is MAJOR for something.

I don't see the benefit of creative... Do you want cheaper libraries? It's pretty unlikely that you'll have problems spreading your cultural borders on quick (only 5 for the first pop). I spammed missionaries for all of my new cities as I played most of the game in OR = 25% bonus from the get-go. Praets have their uses. You can eliminate your 2 nearest neighbors if you rush them, as it takes a while to get to longbows (decent counter) or maces.

EDIT: sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh but I was curious to know if there was some benefit of creative that I was missing...

Creative makes it easier to get lots of land without as many cities.

No problems, shyuhe a discussion is always welcome, and i posted to see different opinions.
My point of view:
organized is important, philo too, but the only phi/org is Fred, and he's busy (?).
Then the choice for others organized leaders: in Warlords (if i'm not wrong) you got only the roman leaders, so i prefere AC for his creative trait not only you're sure any city will quickly expand its borders, but a cheap library is welcome, especially in this game, probably more than a cheap university (philo). The UU (one of the best, IMHO) can't be at his best with a med start, too soon AI arrive to LB, unless you're VERY close to an AI.
Another important thing, the UB: forum is one of the best, IMHO.

No philo leaders free in warlords, so in Vanilla: Saladin (but not organised), pretty good UU spiritual trait can in some way compensate the minimum 3 turns of anarchy, revolting to multiple civics at a time.
Toku is org (vanilla), but i like best JC (perhaps 'cause i'm italian?), but you don't have UB to play with.
A good reson for vanilla can be the vassal state, but you're allowed to flag "no vassal states", and probably i'll do this for another start.

azzaman, while that's a valid point in most normal games, you actually want more cities in a time game. You want to be working every single tile in your cultural borders if possible to maximize the population score that you'll get in the end.

I do see the merits of creative libraries, but I wanted to play in vanilla in hopes of a slower tech speed (the AI is marginally slower in vanilla compared to warlords on prince). Since that eliminates Augustus, I just used a different leader instead (the other creative leaders weren't available or sucked for this gauntlet).

You're right, but first of all you have a "free" borders expansion, without waste pruduction on missionaries, and you want spread your religion if you own a shrine (not so easy to pop a GP with all that GS around), and this is a way to optimize city placement.

But you're damn right about vanilla, and despite my last try looks promising (only a date: CS in 230 AD, philo in 530) thanks to 2 grassland gems in capital FC and edu and PP already learned thanks to 2 GS from GL i'll probably try vanilla with Saladin or JC.
Now i stopped to deal with RL commitments, but i'm pre-researching lib after nationalism in 1235 AD, hoping to grab demo... lady liberty is one of the best wonders.
Farmer's gambit for now (only 2 barracks and a praet built on the military side, far last in power), let's fight with bombers and tanks.

EDIT:
after some turn i was (forced by Gandhi with edu) first to liberalism for MT, lost the Economics race to Gandhi, but - worst - 2 civs DoWed me in about the same turn, razing a good city... perhaps i pushed too much my gambit.
Time to try with Saladin, in vanilla.
But IMO JC or Isabella (+3 health in vanilla) are interesting, health is a problem, and the best land is with jungle and flood plains.

Well I won by domination in 2045. Very frustrating, can't finish the gauntlet because I was greedy.

No one could finish the spaceship. I had destroyed most AI's and Vicky wouldn't finish the engine until 2057. Destroying most of the AIs also meant I was pushing borders against some newly founded AI cities. With Statue of Libery, Eifel Tower, and Sistine Chapel plus built up cities; I just couldn't stop pushing out borders. I was giving away cities but I put 3 AI cities into revolt on the same turn. Next time I won't be greedy and stay so close to the domination limit. I should have revolted out of Free Speech to slow my culture but I was trying to grow cities.

poor guy. :(

What was your score?

i know how frustrating this is... as i said i got beat by 3 and 10 turns by the AI in this gauntlet...

poor guy. :(

What was your score?

I had a base score of about 9300 and final score a bit over 12000. The game had too much warfare to try again. (I didn't realize a quick game could be so long.) I wasn't going to win the gauntlet but I did want to finish it. I don't usually play quick or highlands or medieval starts or for time victories so I made some bad choices (Slow initial expansion, raging barbs, not farming early enough, etc)

I'm curious why Organized and Creative are such popular traits. I played warlords and went with financial and charismatic (Hannibal). There were so many windmills on the map that I thought financial would be a better choice than organized. Is the civic maintenance enough on prince to make organized a better choice? Charismatic and great generals let me build level 5 tanks and modern armor. I built a lot of them to disrupt AIs as they neared Fusion. Are cheap courthouses and libraries the key to high final scores?

:nuke: I'm in da club man! :nuke:

I've just lost my game to Peter 4 turns before finish.
I didn't expect him to be so fast and when my spies came there they failed.
But not enough:
The way was so long, that it took 4 turns to get from my nearest borders to his. So I nuked him like hell, but with 1 turn to go for the Engine and 2 for Stasis Chamber there were not enough nukes (approx. 15) to stop him.
Anyway it was fun and I learnt alot about late warfare and large empire management.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97408/Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97408/Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

btw: Peter was the small piece in the bottom right corner, access only from top (Frederick).

:nuke: I'm in da club man! :nuke:

I've just lost my game to Peter 4 turns before finish.
I didn't expect him to be so fast and when my spies came there they failed.
But not enough:
The way was so long, that it took 4 turns to get from my nearest borders to his. So I nuked him like hell, but with 1 turn to go for the Engine and 2 for Stasis Chamber there were not enough nukes (approx. 15) to stop him.
Anyway it was fun and I learnt alot about late warfare and large empire management.

ouch what a club! the only time victory i've won so far was one i stacked the deck from the start: settler/duel/one opponent/OCC. took care of domination for me right there.

on the bright side, you had fun and learned a lot. and your screenshots made me laugh even while i sympathized with your pain, seeing those barbs so late in the game!

i'm learning from reading the "dang, almost made it" posts too. not that i want to to encourage more games that result in such posts, i wish you all luck in actually winning! but this is a thank you to the folks sharing even the "almosts".

Sharing the experience and opinions with the community is why I play the events of civfanatics.
And it makes you think about your game before you continue.
So please dear readers, write reports yourself and have fun.

KMadCandy kind of encouraged me to write this, I don't wanna be guilty/responsible myself! ^^

Ouch, youve had some really good runs ruined in the end. Sadly I didnt even bother to try as game woulda been damn slow in the end. Maybe next gauntlet time victory wont be on huge/large map. I think that Huge/mara woulda been easier for computer as chief&mara it woulda been quite easy to exterminate all opposition and therefore get rounds go faster.

BTW those non anc starts really give something to gauntlets as they are not the way to go on HoF otherwise (well future deity is different thing).

-Dracandross

This just takes to long to finish. I stayed up all night last night... ALL night and i am on a good run but.. just takes forever.

I do have some advice that I am sure by practice is almost certainly very solid though for any nonpros attempting this.

Its this:
-It is basically impossible to totally crash your economy in a medieval start like it is in an ancient start.

I turned off barbarians and goody huts (take out luck). I dont recommend leaving barbarians off, but it made it less intricate to test huge expansions.

For this I choose a +2 culture civ for the free borders expansions. This helped alot in carving out an empire I think.

What I did was cycle the map and until I got a pretty looking center location. Then I made a worker, then I grew the city to two while working two resource squares, then I set the capital on settler and didnt stop till I had pumped out about 10 settlers. The number was more about pretty city squares then my economy. Shortly later realized I hadnt pushed it hard enough and made 3 more.

Upon setting down I immediately made a worker in the new city. The worker worked the 1 to 2 nearby resource squares then set about making cottages. And my economy never really crashed. I had been planning to expand until my slider was at 0 research because I figured that I had all essential techs for recovering my empire. And I think thats the key of what I mean by cant crash your economy.

No matter what you have the key ancient techs to recover. When you crash your economy before you have ancient techs you are missing essential techs to recover easily. And it ends up circular. No techs to recover. Cant get techs because you dont recover. That doesnt happen in a medieval start.

As it turned out even though my slider dipped into 40% research I never really fell behind on tech. (40% of very large can be as big as 100% of small) So anyway thats my advice:
"rules" for ancient early expansions dont apply to medieval early expansions. And what you gain for carving out a huge empire at the start is insane power later on without having to fight for it.

I ended up with massive industrial capacity. My stack of doom is actually making my game slow down its crazy. I have more units in this game then I have ever had with 75 turns to go =/ Actually in abotu 4 turns im going to divide it up into two stacks of doom because its to much stack of doom its being wasted. There is only so much doom you need in a stack. And thats why you do this at the start.

When you turn barbs back on youll have to pay alot of attention to making units after that worker which is cool. I mean when the barbarians finally do stop coming youll prolly have a crazy army to unleash on some poor neighbor if you please. On the upside since your expanding towards AI borders, aggressively, barbs will disappear sooner. Though I have no doubt it will be worse for you before that happens having so much empire. Maybe not I should try it =)

I prolly wont finisht though. Takes to long to make attempts. And even though I am sure this is the way to start, it doesnt imply "win"

I have to slightly disagree with this approach. Teching is more important than setting up a strong industrial base for this gauntlet as the key determining factor of your score is going to be how many future techs you accumulate and how large you can grow your population. If you can out tech the AI to tanks, and later to mech infantry and MA, you will be able to take more than enough land as those combined with an air force can conquer very fast, even on a large map. I think it's more important that you set up a strong research base so that you can hit the key military techs faster.

I'm a bit "down" becauseof this, but some thoughts about my last game:

I'm playing as Saladin in vanilla, this time no farmer's gambit, i'm far away in tech, #1 in score (twice+ over the best AI), and probably there's an AI that can launch... no problem, i'm conquering the civs to arrive at the borders, and if this goeas close to launch... i don't think my army is beatable, and my railroads network, plus some airport surely helps to speed the troops movement.

I will happy to finish with 2 FT, but as the winner, not a SS lost.

Map: the "bald land" bug, so no forests, jungles, nor (i discover this later, of course) dyes, silk, sugar and gems in all the map.
I was hitting "alt+G", but i saw this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/51166/sala60000.JPG
and, trust me, 3 free workers after 20 turns are a good bonus, plus seafood, iron and marble ata hand (and lately stone and copper) helps a lot wonders and research.
I had cavalry before guilds, so i never built my good UU, but i always owned a far military superiority (liberalism for MT), then the economics route to be first, then 2 GE burned for lady liberty, and so on.
If i'll loose this, i'll stop to play Civ, granted.

I finally decided to give this a go... my first submission in almost a month (RL is infringing on my game time).

Given the settings were so unusual, I decided to play a test game with a so-so start. Figured I'd get behind, abandon, then try again with a better start. I decided on Saladin, thought Philo would be good for GP's (since I was going to play a SE).

Didn't go according to plan... the whole game I thought I might still win, so I never abandoned. At the end, three civs were very close to launching. I knocked two back with nukes and spies. The last, Qin, was a problem.

With about 15 turns to go, he was maybe 7 from spaceship. Although he was more powerful than me (I had just come off a long war after Cathy bushwacked me) and my armies were not in place, I needed to beeline to his engine city. I managed to raze it with 2 turns to spare... and he simply moved production to a different city (which I couldn't reach).

I got two spies there... when there was 6 turns left (5 to engine), the first tried to sabotage and was caught. With 5 turns left (4 on engine), the second spy was successful (IIRC, the odds were something like 20-50%). When the clock ran out, he had 2 turns to go on his engine.

I didn't score well, especially after the late war with Qin. He ended up taking 8-10 cities from me and pillaged me to the extreme. Just over 7000 points. However, from the so-so start and with many mistakes because I didn't have a feel for these settings, I was happy with a win.

This was one of the most enjoyable games of Civ I've ever played, an absolute nail biter. I might try again, although I doubt I can finish a second game before the 9th.

This was one of the most enjoyable games of Civ I've ever played, an absolute nail biter. I might try again, although I doubt I can finish a second game before the 9th.

Congratulations on the game! Sounds like it was an exciting one! :clap:

I have to slightly disagree with this approach. Teching is more important than setting up a strong industrial base for this gauntlet as the key determining factor of your score is going to be how many future techs you accumulate and how large you can grow your population. If you can out tech the AI to tanks, and later to mech infantry and MA, you will be able to take more than enough land as those combined with an air force can conquer very fast, even on a large map. I think it's more important that you set up a strong research base so that you can hit the key military techs faster.

Actually it seems like most people are getting close by time wins, that would lead to conclusion that wiping them out mostly before 2000 AD would lead to major FT increase as you dont have to worry about losing. And on prince you can still outtech AI quite easily. Also pros for strong industry is that as game is fast you need to get those units on the other end of the map quickly. That means you have to start flowing that way early.

Also each FT is worth few pop. If Im right Wastin Time is somewhat top end on this gauntlet. 50 (or what was it) FTs isn't that much that it makes lots of difference if you get more area / population). Technically you can get a lot of land/pop if you can land last turn settlers/captures or mass capitulation. And they should easily outdo few FTs you lose.

But in the end what do I know as my comp won't go for this game well enough.

-Dracandross

vassals are risky business.... They may push you over the domination limit and you can't control where they'll settle. I'm on my second run of this gauntlet, this time as JC. I have about 30 turns to go and I've already reached 50% land (I'm just gifting the crappier cities to OCC AIs and screwing them with maintenance costs). If you hit tanks fast enough, you can take all the land you want in a span of about 50 turns or so (since you don't really need to bombard unless it's a city on a hill). The worry in my current game isn't losing, but rather accidentally winning via domination. I've crippled the AIs in order of technological advance, so that there is only one civ left that has a reasonable number of cities and has industrialism. I might start up one or two more wars to cripple the last two AIs that haven't faced my wrath yet :devil:

I also start farming over everything towards the end to increase the population count and I don't need the extra beakers. You can't do better than one FT in a given turn :( Unless you get enough GS to bulb an entire FT just from GS (I think you need 4?). I've been hitting a future tech a turn for a while now, and I'll end at 68 or so if I've counted correctly.

The nail biting aspect of this game does suck though... I'm always worried that I'm going to go over the domination limit when I hit enter...

I think for these settings, the best leader is Ragnar (Fin/Agg).

You can research faster and produce military units better, while berserkers can be useful when you ready to increase your empire (and weaken some of your opponents).

I tried the game with J. Ceasar, but it wasn't too good. Without financial research and tax is quite complicated, even if you can build courthouses cheaper. Praetorians are only good when your opponents doesn't have axemen.

vassals are risky business.... They may push you over the domination limit and you can't control where they'll settle. I'm on my second run of this gauntlet, this time as JC. I have about 30 turns to go and I've already reached 50% land (I'm just gifting the crappier cities to OCC AIs and screwing them with maintenance costs). If you hit tanks fast enough, you can take all the land you want in a span of about 50 turns or so (since you don't really need to bombard unless it's a city on a hill). The worry in my current game isn't losing, but rather accidentally winning via domination. I've crippled the AIs in order of technological advance, so that there is only one civ left that has a reasonable number of cities and has industrialism. I might start up one or two more wars to cripple the last two AIs that haven't faced my wrath yet :devil:

I also start farming over everything towards the end to increase the population count and I don't need the extra beakers. You can't do better than one FT in a given turn :( Unless you get enough GS to bulb an entire FT just from GS (I think you need 4?). I've been hitting a future tech a turn for a while now, and I'll end at 68 or so if I've counted correctly.

The nail biting aspect of this game does suck though... I'm always worried that I'm going to go over the domination limit when I hit enter...

So your tactics is to go to war only with tanks. So You do not attack with cavalry and artilery (cannon) or even with Maceman/cannon (trebutchet).

I have tried the early war but Iwas always beaten in SS race.

In this "tank" approach ( it is a good idea as you do not need slow moving units) do you still need spies?

Fro everybody: What settings are you using? (Dense peaks or low peaks, clustered or scattered?)


Which wonders do you build?

@Bozso,

I started warring immediately with praets after I had about 3-4 cities. I stayed at war with that civ until I eliminated it about 200-300 years later. By that time, I was warring with cavalry. With cavalry in, I then started attacking another one of my neighbors, but again that war dragged on. I finished off the last few cities with tanks. After I got tanks, I just went on a rampage with air support. I think the only unit that can crush civilizations on its own are conquistadors/knights against civs that don't have pikes. Otherwise, it just takes too long to reach their doorstep.

Wonder wise, Hagia Sophia is awesome with these settings. It gives your workers the ability to build roads in 1 turn instead of 2. SOL is always huge with lots of cities... An early GL is also very nice.

Dense peaks lead to interesting results - you will get one or two tile choke points to other territories, and you'll have to meander around to get to the other civs. While it limits the available food on the map, I don't think it's worth the hassle...

I suggest you turn vassals off, cause it makes your land (domination limit) unpredictable.
I also suggest you go for a rapid expansion as described above. I for my part had one city producing military cause I turned on raging barbs.
Once you settled all the available space, think of your first war and prepare it.
From there on you should be at war all the time with small truce perhaps.
You should have key buildings in every city and after that produce military units in them.
When you hit the 30% land mark you should turn all your cities to food-focussed management.
I failed to achieve victory because I stopped war at 48% land, but that was wrong if there are AIs you can't reach directly or were crippled already. Get yourself in a good positions for the final turns. If you have to attack AIs and destroy their cities just to have a clear passage to potential spaceship-launcher.
@Bozso:
I decided for the least landarea (dense clustered with seas), cause pop-points are depending on available food, not number of tiles.
Build as many wonders as possible for score. Decide for one city with ironworks, that should build all wonders from there on.

wooops. I just hit domination with about 22 turns to go :( I got a little too carried away and a bunch of cities all came out of revolt on the same turn. That kind of sucked... I think I would have beaten my last score by a good 1-2k too... I was at 9.7k with 22 turns to go and I had a plan to push my pop count really high too. Oh well, no more tries on this gauntlet for me...

I also had the AI controlled in this game. Nobody was even close to a launch with 22 turns to go. Qin was the only civ who had computers, and I pillaged all of his land back into the stone age and killed all of his garrison with gunships. The next most advanced civ had radio, industrialism, and rocketry but nothing else. I should have been paying more attention to the domination limit!

wooops. I just hit domination with about 22 turns to go :( I got a little too carried away and a bunch of cities all came out of revolt on the same turn. That kind of sucked... I think I would have beaten my last score by a good 1-2k too... I was at 9.7k with 22 turns to go and I had a plan to push my pop count really high too. Oh well, no more tries on this gauntlet for me...

I also had the AI controlled in this game. Nobody was even close to a launch with 22 turns to go. Qin was the only civ who had computers, and I pillaged all of his land back into the stone age and killed all of his garrison with gunships. The next most advanced civ had radio, industrialism, and rocketry but nothing else. I should have been paying more attention to the domination limit!

Hi Shyuhe!

Domination limit is a very dangerous thing for time victory. I have some questions to you because I aim this gauntlet too:

- How many hours did you play in this game?
- Did you attacked ALL of your opponents or just most of them?
- Did you ever trade a tech to any of your opponents?

I used scattered, thin peaks and seas.
Built all the wonders but Notre Dame and Sistine.
Start warmogering with cavalry then the usual ramp to cannons, tanks, bombers and so on.
Usually i research radio before flight, and rocketry after it, so i can build the Eiffel before start build bombers, then gunships.

I'm finishing my game, but i'm afraid an AI can launch and i can't stop it.
This guy was damn behind in tech and now is researching fusion, as the (former) most advanced AI are... i'm taking care of 2, but he's the 3rd.

Curiuos to see the end.

I used scattered, thin peaks and seas.
Built all the wonders but Notre Dame and Sistine.
Start warmogering with cavalry then the usual ramp to cannons, tanks, bombers and so on.
Usually i research radio before flight, and rocketry after it, so i can build the Eiffel before start build bombers, then gunships.

I'm finishing my game, but i'm afraid an AI can launch and i can't stop it.
This guy was damn behind in tech and now is researching fusion, as the (former) most advanced AI are... i'm taking care of 2, but he's the 3rd.

Curiuos to see the end.

Scattered and thin peaks is the best, but seas can result difficult moving. I play with large lakes, this gives you some seafood (not too much) but doesn't make moving harder (only somatimes).

How many time have you spent with your game?

Hi Shyuhe!

- How many hours did you play in this game?
- Did you attacked ALL of your opponents or just most of them?
- Did you ever trade a tech to any of your opponents?

I think it was at least 10 hours when I hit domination. I attacked all but one opponet (Nappy) who I made too busy warring that he was technologically backwards (he didn't have computers yet with 22 turns to go). I traded for a complete world map once paper got in, then traded my world map for all the backwards techs like theology and music. I think the AI values the world map a wee bit too much on this setting. I did not trade any tech after that, except to bribe civs into war.

Scattered and thin peaks is the best

Why should that be so?

I think valueness of world map depends on how big part can your opponents explore. And they can't too much with raging barbs!

To Airny: Scattered and thin results that there will be no big mountains, just single or small mountain types. I think, but I'm not sure there are less mountains all in all, or at least these aren't appear in big quantity in a small terrain.

@kovacsflo:
Where is the advantage of less impassable mountains?
In terms of score you just need more pop to get the same popscore as in a map with dense peaks.

@Bozso,

I started warring immediately with praets after I had about 3-4 cities. I stayed at war with that civ until I eliminated it about 200-300 years later. By that time, I was warring with cavalry. With cavalry in, I then started attacking another one of my neighbors, but again that war dragged on. I finished off the last few cities with tanks. After I got tanks, I just went on a rampage with air support. I think the only unit that can crush civilizations on its own are conquistadors/knights against civs that don't have pikes. Otherwise, it just takes too long to reach their doorstep.

Wonder wise, Hagia Sophia is awesome with these settings. It gives your workers the ability to build roads in 1 turn instead of 2. SOL is always huge with lots of cities... An early GL is also very nice.

Dense peaks lead to interesting results - you will get one or two tile choke points to other territories, and you'll have to meander around to get to the other civs. While it limits the available food on the map, I don't think it's worth the hassle...

Thank you yesterday I tried this approach to go to war with tanks, but cathrine attacked me with cossacs. (before I got enough tanks to go to war with her) So I will keep going tonight ,but I think I have lost too many turns ti defend agains C.

@kovacsflo:
Where is the advantage of less impassable mountains?
In terms of score you just need more pop to get the same popscore as in a map with dense peaks.

Are you sure in terms of score (POP)?

Well, it can depend on your strategy. I don't like if there are 4-5 mountains in my city, however less mountain means a bit smaller map, at least in inland sea (rocky map is a bit bigger, but you have several mountains)

@Bozso:
Yeah, I am. Population-score is computed by dividing your pop*2 (=food consumed) over the non-terraformed food available on all tiles.
I posted a link where score is explained earlier in this thread.

Population-score is computed by dividing your pop*2 (=food consumed) over the non-terraformed food available on all tiles.
I posted a link where score is explained earlier in this thread.

full confession: i'm on (doctor-prescribed!!!) narcotic cough syrup atm so my thinking is more muddled than usual.

non-terraformed food means? :confused: i'm guessing you mean something like 'the food available on all the tiles on the map if no workers had ever done anything?' i'd never known that! and now i'm gonna do what i ought to have done in the first place, go look for the link you referenced...

i found it. that is what it's based on. good to know! thanks!!!

Now I have a really good game.

I play with Ragnar (fin/agg). There are three gems, a corn and 6 floods in my capital, and several other commerces close to starting position (for example 3other gems).

Also important that even if I play with raging barbs, I only had to produce a spearman and an axeman against them! The southern part of the map, where I started doesn't really have too much empty spaces. The northern is the opposit. Two of my opponents, well,practically crushed by the barbs. Cathy became a vassal of Peter (!), even if they weren't at war! Another one is suffered serious attacks, losing capital and another city.

Now the time is 1500 AD and I weakened Fred captoring his capital and another city. Qin Shi has just lost his capital as well (contained Chichen and Sankore) and going to lose some others.

So I think raging barbs can be very useful if you are in a lucky situation that your neighbours "help" you not to suffer military! Don't start in North.

Finally finished and won for 10414, FT 60.
Pity i has to give away 2 good cities in the last 5-6 turns to stay safe with the dom. limit, plus 2 more some 30 turns before, just conquered from Gandhi.

The game was warmogering, i started almost in a corner (NE) and after all the NE quarter of the map was secured after i eliminated Victoria, Louis, Fred (the most advenced at the time), Napo and Qin, my strategy was: share borders with every civ, so i can attack the most advanced.

To do this, i had to wipe Roosevelt and Asoka, controlling the map E-W.
Then Gandhi, left with 1 city (but i has to give him back the capital and the Islamic holy city to avoid domination).

Then peaceful, with over 130 gunships, over 100 MA and some 70 MI ready.
I was hoping to stop fight, but after some 20 turns of peace, Washington and Lizzy was too close to fusion then, after bribed Cathy against Wash (as i already did against Roosevelt and Asoka) and Peter against Lizzy, i had to fight myself.
Left Wash with one city (4 turns to go i gave him a former Roosevelt one) and conquered 2 cities from Lizzy (1 gave to Peter, kept London with Sistine and ND), i was worried only for Peter, but he started the engine in a non productive city (anyway i has 4 spies ready in place and enough money).

At 40 turns to go all my cities was producing wealth or science.

Never more a time victory, i think that if this was at Noble it was not easy, but a competition between players, this one i was uncertain until the third last turn.

nice job finishing :) I think you're the 4th player to submit... The domination victory is very scary towards the end... Nice job avoiding it (unlike me :blush:)

Ok, can I just take a minute here to say damn, this is the hardest prince game I've ever played! Is there something in the HoF mod that tilts the RNG so one frequently loses battles with 97% odds? :mad:

I'm not just losing because I'm getting other victory types, I'm getting pwned, and I generally play on monarch. gah!

*Goes off to try another one*

Hi Merum nice to see you here.

I don't think there're any bad RNG in the HoF, but here there's people who knows far better than me.
I suggest this strategy (the one i adopted in my game):
To take my last 2 AI, i attacked with a 2 SoDs with: 40 MA, 40 GS, 1 or 2 MI (medic1) each. After bomb and strike with some 12 SB, this way i didn't care the RNG :p .
Useless to say, owning the Pentagon, all units was level 3 or 4 at least.

Do you think that with a stack like this we can do something to our southern friend in SG4?

Out of joke, this is an enhaced prince game, due to the kind of opposers, it's a Major gauntlet, remember.

So, you quote the great Who's guitarist (better as composer than as guitarist) ... i got some guesses about your age :)

To take my last 2 AI, i attacked with a 2 SoDs with: 40 MA, 40 GS, 1 or 2 MI (medic1) each.

am i the only that read that as "40 great scientists???" before realizing it actually means gunships? *giggle*

Blubmuz always attacks with great scientists. He's a madman. :D

Off to try again. Augustus is nice, but doesn't seem to be working out for me. I'll try somebody else.

EDIT: I give up. Back to Chieftan for me. *shakes head and walks away*

am i the only that read that as "40 great scientists???" before realizing it actually means gunships? *giggle*

well, i know GS is always used as YOU mean, gunships are not so discussed to deserve an acronym, but i was too lazy to write the entire word... perhaps Gs? "G" alone seems too much indefinited...
the contest was clear and to be honest, i didn't count them, i suppose they was 40, perhaps 30 or 45, they were an indecent amount anyway, to take 2 cities defended by 3 MI or some each...

But Merum is right, sometimes i act in strange ways :lol:

I ran out of time. I was just going for a win not a high score so the amount of future tech I got wasnt even in my strat. I one upped my capital settler farm like mad strategy and put both initial settlers on settlers once they hit size 2. I made mad cities across a huge chunk of turf. I did hit 0 research for just a few turns, but alas i never really fell behind on tech.

I then went on a mad settling splooge with a creative civ. As luck would have it I had 5 of the worlds aluminums inside of my cultural borders when I hit aluminum. Its funny listening to gandi go "can i pauulllease have your aluminum"

My first war was with a weak neighbord to get a 6th. That war is over and I am reorganized ready to fight at 80 turns to go.

Currently the lead AI is with all 6 casings and 1 other thing. But right next to my borders in 3 other nations is 3 more of the worlds aluminums. I could bring myself up to 9 aluminums by just taking 3 cities in 3 nations contingious with my borders.. So I kind of came to a crossroad of wehther to take on the lead AI right away or to take my neighbors aluminums before they could catch up bringing myself up to 9 aluminums.

The bad news though the other nations and aluminums are on the complete opposite wall of the map. Think I waited slightly to long to pull the trigger.

But then I realized I didnt have real life time for either plan and it was mute. But it was fun while it lasted.

awwww man. not only do i want everybody who's trying to actually succeed, but i was hoping for you in particular, jeremiah. i'm biased since i want to find out if the direct2drive version works with the hall of fame checking software. i haven't fixed my issue with my old copy of the disks, and i haven't bought new versions yet. i'm taking a break from the game while i decide what to do. hopefully next month will be a better one for both of us ... and all the rest!

The Gauntlet is concluded.


Rank Player Date Score
1 shyuhe 2050 AD 12070
2 WastinTime 2050 AD 11340
3 BLubmuz 2050 AD 10414
4 The-Hawk 2050 AD 7194

So much for this gauntlet being easyish... :lol:

Wow this one was tougher than it looked. I tried the Celts, the Mongols (both) and then settled on Japan. I thought about maximizing the advantages of the hill terrain. I can't believe I didn't much about peeople tyring out the Mongols. I had some sweet starts with iron and horses nearby, and was pumping out Keshiks with the Gers, but soon my military feel behind. I expanded to fast.

Not having played in a while I was making all sorts of silly mistakes but even with my "perfect" games, at some point it would all unravel and I would lag in tech even if my score was up there. I had never played as Japan before and I liked it, but every game I would hit the 100 turns left mark and knew I would catch up the 1000-2000 points to win it. Bummer. But it was fun.

i had 4 tries
in the first two of them i got beat by the ai with 10 or less rounds to go, in both cases an ai at the opposite side of the map which i haven't been at war with to cripple it managed a launch... (both games with mehmed)
the third game i tried japan (vanilla) and a permantent war approach but got beaten up qucikly by napoleon and quin...
the forth game (japan (vanilla)) went really good up to the point where frederick, who was far behind in tech due to overexpansion, suddenly did speed up in teching and finally launched 13 turns before time limit...