Another Idea:


What about making a tip of South Africa just Ocean, without a coast? Because civs like Japan getting in Europe in 1000AD with Galleis isn't very Realistic, the Circumnavigation of Africa was a great naval discovery, that was only possible with Caravels.

So with Rhye erase the coast of Good Hope, we can have a more realistic game :)

Just a thought.

true, never thought about it....

wait, what about the Phoeicans? they did it IN a galley.

But Phoeicians aren't represented ingame so they don't count! XD

Carthage is.

Well, carthage always collapse...

But none of the civs that make it use it to make a "monopolie" of the resources or something like that... As far as i know this discoveries wasn't very important for Phoenicians( I may be very wrong, because i know a little about them ).

Well I've never seen the AI do this... and you could just choose not to as the player.

I sometimes see Indians Galleys around the Mediterranean... and Chinese too.

touche, but i see your point, but my point is that galleys COULD sail the cape

hehe, i understand what you are saying. But i'm still defending that to Represent history more properly is good to make a "Ocean Coast" in 2 tiles of South Africa.

But, i see your point too.

and then in 2 of 5 games (estimated) someone builds the Suezcanal... ;) and all you've done was for nothing... ;) Well, it is not that big of a difference, so I'm indifferent

mick

me too, i advise you, might be easier to change it yourself

XD hehehehe

I didn't thought of that, but the Suez Canal is something more "controled" becauuse just Civs that have Open Boarders with the city owner can pass...

:P

Problaby it easier to change it myself, this was just a thought, even I didn't think this is too seriously or important to make in RFC.


But will improve the game! XD ( a little bit, but will improve! )

i alway connect japan to mainland IF not playing as them

how do we know individuals from Japan did not ever have early contact with Europe from overseas? I don't think the technology level is so drastically different since Portugal found Japan during the Renaissance...

it is thought that Phoenicians/Carthage had contact with the New World, even if a one-way trip and no consistency whatsoever... like Erikssons' Vinland which there was no proof of until relatively late

I know, ALMOST COMPLETELY IMPROBABLE, but I'm saying "what if" ;) devil's advocate that i am, don't crucify me! :p

give me some proof for a carthage-New world connection

I found this in the Internet:

http://phoenicia.org/carthanewworld.html

http://phoenicia.org/america.html

But personally i don't believe.

neithier do i

Actually it is not so farfetched. I read somewhere that there was a Phoenician inscription discovered in Brazil. Probably the only way they found it would be if a ship in a convoy got lost in a storm and continued to sail until it reached America. Improbable, but possible, and it would explain the strange discoveries.

Can ocean tiles be next to land? I think that if you will erase that tip by placung an Ocean tile in the Worldbuilder, the surrounding land tiles will be automatically changed to Coast... so you'll end up erasing the whole Africa.

Rhye can make a Salt Lake! He can make rivers in desert without floodplains! Of course he can make this :P

I like Edungeons idea.

hey, i said "it is thought", not "there is proof" :D hehe, this is one argument I will just sit back and watch ;) nice links, btw

Edungeon is just full of good ideas

Edungeon is just full of good ideas


Thanks man! This is the result of days studing Literature! not that Literature is good, i hate Literature, that's way while studing i need to think in others things to escape from the tedium... :lol:

Sounds like a good idea. :)

I have a BA in English Literature (yay, thread now completely off subject) and I would have to say it should be a BS (I don't mean Bachelor of Science ;)) btw, I only picked literature because I got to take cool courses like Old Norse and Old English. The best line in reference to the ridiculousness of Englist Literature is in the movie Adaptation- "I need a cool name to call my villain" "Howabout the Deconstructionist- he's a literature professor and he kills his victims by cutting them into little pieces"- uhh, I probably butchered that little gem, but if you've heard anything about literary theory- i bet you'd wish you hadn't :p

I don't know if I get what you mean....... is it something related to bulls? :blush:


I'm having Literature, but not to have "cool" courses, i'm having just to finish the high school >_<

yeah- BS man :)

Hah. That's precocious. And apt.

I love literature but not necessarely as a subject.;) That lead to some strange situations at the end of my school career, when I was the only one in class who understood poetry.:mischief:

ON-TOPIC:
What do you think about giving the dangerous capes a kind of General Winter effect?

I found this in the Internet:

http://phoenicia.org/carthanewworld.html

http://phoenicia.org/america.html

But personally i don't believe.

This is the weirdest story I heard on the last months! But it's not impossible to reach America with a galley via England-Iceland-Greenland-Canada. Norse vessels were not as advanced as Caravels, and they did manage to reach America, so its remotely possible, but... Carthaginians on America? :crazyeye: Recently I heard that some boomerangs were found on Egyptian tombs, and certain scriptions on aborigin's holy places are quite similar to Egyptian's. Maybe the sailors from the pages you mention did not circunnavigate Africa... but the entire world!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

However, I think it's not a good idea to do this. After all, you can always send a scout along all Asia, or leave it in south east Africa and make him walk up to the top north. And the AI it's very concerned on exploring. I have played with greeks, and have contected with chinese by their scouts, running all Asia.

EDIT: I like the General winter idea, but I see it a little difficult to manage. What will happen to colonial powers when exploring America?. If they start to lose ships, that will make colonization even slower as it is now (and now it's veeery slow).

I like the idea of General winter

Hopefully the Europeans won't park their caravels in the Magellan Strait forever.;)

Seriously, I do not want to make the passing of the Capes impossible. It should be restricted to just a few coast tiles in the really dangerous straits, so that every Caravel, Galleon or any more advanced (and faster!) ship should not sink, just take a little damage. Caravels and above should prefer ocean tiles anyway because of the faster travelling rate. This way galleys and triremes have a harder time mapping the coastlines of all of Europe, Asia and Africa, a little realism is added (Now I can have a caravel exploring the oceans for centuries without taking any damage, except by barbs maybe...) and nothing lost.:)

Actually the shallow water in Cape of Good Hope is realistic. Ships can pass it, though it takes decades/centuries. ;)

Yes, I agree. I think it does make any harm to see Indian or Japanese galleys on 1500 around. I think it is useless try forcing the AI not to explore, because she usually does this:
1.- If there is sea, sends galleys.
2.- If she has hunting, and it is not closed in an island, sends scouts.
3.-If she does not have hunting, and it is not closed on an island, sends warriors to explore.

I haven't cheked, but I'm pretty sure that, for 1 AD, India does have mapped entire Eurasia, and the same for China. But it takes you ages too go from China or India to reach Europe, so it's accurate, I think.

O yes, and please do the same to Australia.
I hate a Chinese/Japanese Australia/New Zealand.
Maybe you can't reach New Guinea or something...?

O yes, and please do the same to Australia.
I hate a Chinese/Japanese Australia/New Zealand.
Maybe you can't reach New Guinea or something...?

Yup, i read in a book that there is a great "hole" in the ocean in the path Asia = Oceania. That's way there wasn't technology trading betwen the aborigines and the south asian...

It's fairly annoying to see Japan settle the East Indies, but if we block it off they'll just send them somewhere else.

Yeah, to keep the Japanese expansion at bay I always place a bunch of barbs in the Phillipines and on the Jakarta island (Java, I think). It works fairly well.

It's fairly annoying to see Japan settle the East Indies, but if we block it off they'll just send them somewhere else.

They will probably go to America! I've seen them settling on there on a couple of games where the Americans and the Aztecs had a specially bad day.

However, the barb idea is good. Some time ago I proposed Rhye to add some independent cities (barb in Vanilla) on the area. He added Angkor, but I had other proposals. I guess he does have more important issues to work on, but this little one should be a good idea, I think. However, we can do it manually. This is their location:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147571&d=1170786231

Yup, i read in a book that there is a great "hole" in the ocean in the path Asia = Oceania. That's way there wasn't technology trading betwen the aborigines and the south asian...

The problem is that the climates are so radically different. In the days before food and water could be reliably stored for long journeys, any travellers who got from one island to the next would have little idea how to secure a food supply.

Maybe Independents/Barbs/Natives in Indonesia and the Philippines would be a good way to prevent Japanese expansion to the south.