I just downloaded several mods from this site and virtually none of them of them included any form of documentation explaining what people are supposed to do with them. Don't just assume that everyone knows what to do, and don't force them to go back to the site in order to figure it out. I consider it very unprofessional not to include some sort of explanation, and if you can't be bothered providing this type of courtesy for players, I can't be bothered trying out your mods.

Are you talking about full modpacks or something else like units, modcomps, graphics, ect?

If it's for a full modpack that is loaded via Advanced/Load a Mod then installation is explained in the stickied thread above you located here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138043). And if that doesn't help you can always post in the mod's thread about specific questions or issues. Most modmakers will go out of their way to help someone figure out how to play their mods.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184567

Making models of buildings uints isn't enough help to moders? - i don't care about adding .xml to it - it's waste of time for me (modelling is enough time consumming process) and i don't want to hear "i would add 22 strenght than 20". If someone wants to add this to mod it'll find out how to add this (or ask author how to do that) - besides there's many tutorials how to.... http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177 If you're lazy don't expect that people will make all the job for you!

About mods - the modding process takes a lot of time - many ppl give instalatoins instructions or use automatical installers. There's no need to write 100 page manual for person who is lazy to read install instructions on site from where he downloaded mod - he won't probably read .doc or .pdf.

And finally - noone force you to play mods. you don't have to be bothered trying mods.

Expecting hobbyist modders to provide a professional level of documentation is pretty rich in the first place. Sure, it's nice if they do it, but it's strictly a bonus.

I try to put documentation in all my my MOD comps (as few as they may be), but I find that I spend about 75% of my time just documenting!

Are you talking about full modpacks or something else like units, modcomps, graphics, ect?

If it's for a full modpack that is loaded via Advanced/Load a Mod then installation is explained in the stickied thread above you located here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138043). And if that doesn't help you can always post in the mod's thread about specific questions or issues. Most modmakers will go out of their way to help someone figure out how to play their mods.

Yes, I'm talking about full mod pacs. And yes, there is some documentation on the download site, but that doesn't do anyone alot of good when they're actually in the process of installing the mod. If they have any confusion at that time, it's a hassle to have to go back on line, track down the page and read through it to all to figure it all out. It's alot more convenient just to have a short text file with the mod itself explaining what needs to be done. I see it as a matter of courtesy, trying to make things as easy as possible for someone who may not know what they're doing. I DLd over a dozen mods yesterday, and only about three of them made the effort.

Expecting hobbyist modders to provide a professional level of documentation is pretty rich in the first place. Sure, it's nice if they do it, but it's strictly a bonus.


Who's talking about professional level, just a short text file is sufficient. It would take all of 5 minutes to bang off in Notepad. It would even be nice to include a short explanation of the mod. It might sit on someone's harddrive for awhile afterwards and they could easily forget about it. Having a short description would help out whenever they get back to it, instead of leaving them wondering, "What the hell is this?"

I am willing to include installation documentation for the low low price of 100$ per hour of work. Negotiation over payment methods is also billable.

:)

Pretty much all full mods install the same way, as a subdirectory of the mods subdirectory of the game (be sure to know if it is a warlords or vanilla mod -- they go in different spots).

When you start hitting something the level of FFH, it tends to have documentation. But on lower end mods, there is a standard installation procedure that is stickied at the top of the forum.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184567

Well that's nice, but I didn't know about that link beforehand. And as it I said, it's a matter of courtesy to the people who use your mods to make it as easy for them as possible. That doesn't mean having to surf the web again trying to track down the link where they got the mod from, or one like you provided, just to install the mod. That info should be included with the mod itself.

- it's waste of time for me

Then it's a waste of my time to try out the mods that you've worked so hard on.


And finally - noone force you to play mods. you don't have to be bothered trying mods.

No ,and normally I don't. Partly because I'm only interested in mods that have a level of professionalism that comes to close to what I see in the game itself. And quite obviously that attitude is badly lacking in the current modding community. I only downloaded those mods on a whim, but after this experience I'm not really interested in bothering with it again. I'll stick with what Firaxis has provided me with, at least I'll know what to expect from them.

When you start hitting something the level of FFH, it tends to have documentation. But on lower end mods, there is a standard installation procedure that is stickied at the top of the forum.

A couple of the mods I got were on a higher level like that, and even they didn't bother with any sort of docs. There were several folders, and I was supposed to intuitively understand where they all went. Sorry, but I can't be bothered if the author can't be bothered taking the time to explain it to me.

Deity,pfffffffffffffff !!!!!!!!
If a mod pleasen you, you should be able to get it to work !

I consider it very unprofessional not to include some sort of explanation...

We're not professionals.

Besides, if it's a full mod, you just put it in the mods folder. If it's a mod component, and you're not a modder yourself; it's no use to you anyway.

We're not professionals.

No, but you can at least try to adopt the attitude. It's an indication of perfectionism, something that some people like myself look for in a mod. I've downloaded stuff for other games; I have a ton of Neverwinter Nights 1 mods, and things like that are something I've come to expect. I'm frankly surprised that the Civ 4 modding community is so amateurish in it's approach. I would have thought by now, with the SDK and other tools long ago released, that there'd be a fairly high standard in the work that people are doing. But I really don't see it happening. It's a pity really.

PS: And it's not just about providing instructions, it's a way of personalizing your mods. When it's on my hard drive it's just another file. Add a small blurb about it , and maybe yourself, and it puts a bit more of your own personality into it. This will help me remember you later if you happen to do anything else. It will make me more inclined to download your future work if I get a sense of the person behind the mod. It's a way of developing a fan base.

Willem, you do realize that the people whom you're complaining about have introduced entirely new features into the game, such as revloution, a superior religious model, plagues, immegration, more realitic nuclear weapons, dynamic polar caps, superior AI, new animated leaders, enough units for three versions of Civ 4, an improved method of industrialization, a primitive form of archeological discovery, enslavement, zone of control, food, hammers, and oil as national resources -- this list can go on. That's fairly high level modding right there.

And you're complaining about installation instructions because you didn't bother to check the stickies?

I try to add documentation into my full packs - like CIV Gold or Canada Deluxe. But I don't include docs with standalones like leaderheads or units (unless they require tweaking that is not intuitive).

In the past, I've tried to develop a PDF manual for CIV Gold but I simply haven't the time to develop and maintain something like that. A simple Word file containing the basics will have to do for now.

This isn't aimed at anyone, but on the topic of instructions, I took the time to write a sticky on Downloading, Installing and Playing a New Civ (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178919), and you still can't believe how many people post questions - in that very forum - asking how to do the above. They also asked about issues specifically addressed in the FAQ section on that sticky.

In other words, you can lead a horse to water...

Yeah, but with Willem's post count, you'd think he'd know his way around forum functions -- with this board at the very least.

No, but you can at least try to adopt the attitude. It's an indication of perfectionism, something that some people like myself look for in a mod.

If i would have ten moders more in team i would carry about fully documentation than

No, but you can at least try to adopt the attitude. It's an indication of perfectionism, something that some people like myself look for in a mod. I've downloaded stuff for other games; I have a ton of Neverwinter Nights 1 mods, and things like that are something I've come to expect. I'm frankly surprised that the Civ 4 modding community is so amateurish in it's approach. I would have thought by now, with the SDK and other tools long ago released, that there'd be a fairly high standard in the work that people are doing. But I really don't see it happening. It's a pity really.

Hey Willem have you ever made a mod? If so I want a link to your documentation, if not then you don't know whats involved in modding and should keep your ignorant mouth shut. Many people have worked very hard on the mods. Spending most if not all of their free time. Dissing a community because it not "professional" is funny when every one here just doing a hobby and not getting paid.

Hey Willem have you ever made a mod?

For my own uses, not for public release.

....and should keep your ignorant mouth shut.

Now that's real professional! Can't handle a little constructive criticism? And yet another reason why I don't spent very time on CivFanatics anymore, too many people with your attitude.

Dissing a community because it not "professional" is funny when every one here just doing a hobby and not getting paid.

The same can be said for other modding communites I've dealt with, like Neverwinter Nights, but they still try and make the effort to communicate to the people using their mods. Maybe the community here is just far too ego driven. It would certainly seem that way judging by the kind of responses I'm getting for putting in my two-cents worth. They should be resorting to personal attacks any time soon.

And you're complaining about installation instructions because you didn't bother to check the stickies?

Did you also read my PS? And I didn't read the stickies since I was expecting to get some readmes in the mod archives. It's pretty much standard procedure in any of the other mod communities I've dealt with the past few years. So what's so special about the Civ community that they can't be bothered doing this as well?

If i would have ten moders more in team i would carry about fully documentation than

I'm not suggesting anything elaborate, no need for a full-blown manual. Just a few paragraphs explaining the mod, and what's supposed to be done with it.

Did you also read my PS? And I didn't read the stickies since I was expecting to get some readmes in the mod archives. It's pretty much standard procedure in any of the other mod communities I've dealt with the past few years. So what's so special about the Civ community that they can't be bothered doing this as well?

I posted my response prior to your PS being inserted into the thread, and it didn't address my point satisfactorily enough for me to edit my post. The level of work provided by the mod makers in this community is some of the highest quality available on the web. Some could be considered professional level if they were being paid for it.

The "lack" of documentation for much of the work is due primarily due to the fact that they expect you've read the introductory post for their work -- how else would you know you'd be interested in what it had to offer? And why would they need you in particular to associate their names to their work? No one else seems to have had any difficulty in differentiating jdog5000's Revolution and Rebellion Mod from Snafusmith's Modern Warfare Mod or from Dale's Combat Mod.

This leads me to think you're more concerned with how to install than what the mod does. In addition, all of the packages provided follow the same organizational method -- a single folder under which all of the appropriate files are kept, and the installation process was made mindnumbingly easy by Firaxis -- drag and drop the single folder into the Mods folders, either the one under Civ for vanilla mods or the one under warlords for those that use the expansion pack's features. By the way, that introductory post associated with each mod also tells you which version of Civ the mod was designed for.

The level of work provided by the mod makers in this community is some of the highest quality available on the web. Some could be considered professional level if they were being paid for it.

No doubt. And some of their work has even made it into the official release, such as Blake's AI modifications. Which is why I tend to look for work that takes that extra step, tiny though it be.

The "lack" of documentation for much of the work is due primarily due to the fact that they expect you've read the introductory post for their work -- how else would you know you'd be interested in what it had to offer?

Like I said, I downloaded on a whim. I came across a link that someone provided in response to some suggestions another poster was asking for. I figured I'd follow the link and check out a few things, not having tried any Civ 4 mods before. I just downloaded a bunch of stuff that seemed interesting thinking I could sort through it all later. That didn't turn out to be the case.

No one else seems to have had any difficulty in differentiating jdog5000's Revolution and Rebellion Mod from Snafusmith's Modern Warfare Mod or from Dale's Combat Mod.

Not the regular people who check out this forum maybe, but there's all kinds of people, like me, who have never tried a Civ 4 mod before. If you just cater to a closed community, you're not going to get your work known very well.

This leads me to think you're more concerned with how to install than what the mod does.

Not just. Like I mentioned in my PS, if it sits on my hard drive for awhile, I may forget what the mod is about. I usually download a bunch of stuff all at once and I may not get around to doing anything with it for awhile. I have some things for other games I've had sitting around for years now, like some mods for Baldur's Gate 2. You can only try so many at once, and I have other games I have mods for as well. So if it doesn't have any sort of readme, I could easily forget what's it's about. And I certainly wouldn't be able to remember whether it was a vanilla Civ mod or one for Warlords.

By the way, that introductory post associated with each mod also tells you which version of Civ the mod was designed for.

Sorry, but that's not true in all cases. Nor does it necessarily mention what patch version it was made with, which could be an important bit of info. And as I mentioned, if it sits on my drive for awhile, that blurb on the web site isn't going to do me very much good. I'm not about to track down the page just to figure out what the mod is all about, it's just history.

And as I also mentioned, I've come to expect some sort of info file in any mod I acquire. In the case of the Baldur's gate mods, one community uses an HTML readme that can actually link up to the site to let me know whether I have the most recent version. Now that's taking the extra step! It's a pretty standard procedure with most of the communities I've been dealing with to include at least something in the archive, so I only gave those posts a glance to get a basic idea of what the mod was about.

Who's talking about professional level, just a short text file is sufficient.
You are talking about professional level. Read your out frikken OP. :rolleyes:

Yes, but civilization is a game of geeks. :)

The files themselves describe what the mod does!

In my case, the small amount of published modding is just the set of modifications I find enjoyable to play, and at least 1 other person wanted to see.

If you want to document a mod, feel free to. I doubt anyone with a published mod would object to the addition a documentation blurb. And then you can solve your problem with the lack of documentation!

Speaking of documentation, anyone happen to know how to get a string to show up in the civ4 game when you select the mod? There seems to be a description field in the .ini file, but I haven't poked at it.

You are talking about professional level. Read your out frikken OP. :rolleyes:

I beg your pardon, what exactly are you refering to? In what way was my post unprofessional? Not that there's such a thing as a professional attitude in expressing an opinion anyway. Courteous yes, professional no.

OK, I see your point now. And I later mentioned that at least trying to adopt the attitude would be good. Of course amateur modders may never achieve the level of someone in an actual gaming house, but why not take what you're doing seriously enough to make the attempt. There's a few people here I can see who are striving for that, but not very many.

The files themselves describe what the mod does!

But that's the point, if they're sitting on my hard drive they don't.

In my case, the small amount of published modding is just the set of modifications I find enjoyable to play, and at least 1 other person wanted to see.

Which is fine, but I was dealing with full blown scenarios that were posted. With at times complicated features, quite different from the default game.

If you want to document a mod, feel free to. I doubt anyone with a published mod would object to the addition a documentation blurb. And then you can solve your problem with the lack of documentation!

Yeah right, I'm going to do someone's work for them. :rolleyes:

The mayor problem is that it seems like you have huge expectation for someones hobby work (wich you get paing no $) wich was made without resources and huge teams with milions of bucks to be spent for game development and promotion.

Personally i make instal file and there it's readme so even when the install file is dumpng on hdd you may get know what this is (but i don't want to make fully docementation) - but firaxis made installing mods so simple that it doesn't need to be remebered 100 times by modders - on page, in readme, in stickies, in faq, in installation files..... just only for one person who's to lazy to look on web page

Yeah right, I'm going to do someone's work for them.

And i have feeling you should think about your ego, not ego of this modders who spends a lot of free time to make mods

No doubt. And some of their work has even made it into the official release, such as Blake's AI modifications. Which is why I tend to look for work that takes that extra step, tiny though it be.

The extra step is not needed if the user in question uses basic reading comprehension. Like the mod or don't. The community doesn't have to cater to your wishes.



Like I said, I downloaded on a whim. I came across a link that someone provided in response to some suggestions another poster was asking for. I figured I'd follow the link and check out a few things, not having tried any Civ 4 mods before. I just downloaded a bunch of stuff that seemed interesting thinking I could sort through it all later. That didn't turn out to be the case.

Again, basic reading comprehension. The files are named such that determining the content of the archive is not difficult.



Not the regular people who check out this forum maybe, but there's all kinds of people, like me, who have never tried a Civ 4 mod before. If you just cater to a closed community, you're not going to get your work known very well.

Willem, you've got over 2700 posts in this forum. A quote like this coming from someone like you is ridiculous. You've had enough experience with this "closed" community that you should have had any difficulties following the ins and out of this forum. Again, this leads me to think your complaint was borne primarily from your forgetting to look at the stickies.

Even the Civ IV manual describes how to install and launch mods. A user on this particular forum with over 2000 posts to his handle can't tell me he's never read the manual to a Civ game.

Not just. Like I mentioned in my PS, if it sits on my hard drive for awhile, I may forget what the mod is about. I usually download a bunch of stuff all at once and I may not get around to doing anything with it for awhile. I have some things for other games I've had sitting around for years now, like some mods for Baldur's Gate 2. You can only try so many at once, and I have other games I have mods for as well. So if it doesn't have any sort of readme, I could easily forget what's it's about. And I certainly wouldn't be able to remember whether it was a vanilla Civ mod or one for Warlords.

Again, the onus is on you to organize your hard drive. You. No one else. If you can't come up with a reasonable archive system to maintain your library it's not the fault of anyone else. The files are named such as to be recognizable, and their installation process is painfully easy. When you downloaded the things, you should've stuck them in a folder that should've told you what game they were for while you had the presence of mind to do so.

Sorry, but that's not true in all cases. Nor does it necessarily mention what patch version it was made with, which could be an important bit of info. And as I mentioned, if it sits on my drive for awhile, that blurb on the web site isn't going to do me very much good. I'm not about to track down the page just to figure out what the mod is all about, it's just history.

And as I also mentioned, I've come to expect some sort of info file in any mod I acquire. In the case of the Baldur's gate mods, one community uses an HTML readme that can actually link up to the site to let me know whether I have the most recent version. Now that's taking the extra step! It's a pretty standard procedure with most of the communities I've been dealing with to include at least something in the archive, so I only gave those posts a glance to get a basic idea of what the mod was about.

Every mod I've looked at under the Civ IV group denotes specifically which version of Civ it's for, and which patch it's designed to run under. The method of operation here is that the bulk of the information is listed on the opening post from the mod designer. The links in the download section point to the threads in which they're introduced. The onus is on you to understand the forum's methods of providing information. You're supposed to adapt to it, not the other way around. Again, you've got 2700 posts here, there's no reason for you to have had any problems navigating this site.

And again, you're the one responsible for organizing your library of downloads, not anyone else. It's your job.

...and I'm beginning to wonder which mods you're complaining about. Feel free to post links.

I've pulled a large number of mods off this site recently, and I can't seem to recall a single one that didn't have a file of some form that provided information on what the mod does and who made it.

For my own uses, not for public release.



Now that's real professional! Can't handle a little constructive criticism? And yet another reason why I don't spent very time on CivFanatics anymore, too many people with your attitude.



The same can be said for other modding communites I've dealt with, like Neverwinter Nights, but they still try and make the effort to communicate to the people using their mods. Maybe the community here is just far too ego driven. It would certainly seem that way judging by the kind of responses I'm getting for putting in my two-cents worth. They should be resorting to personal attacks any time soon.



Being a member of the Neverwinter Nights community as well as here, yes you are correct they do supply more information about installation instructions on their mods. However Neverwinter Nights is not as easy to install a full blown mod into. However Neverwinter Nights is in the minority I have found as I am also a member of the guild for the Total war series and one of their best mods ever ( For all total war games) is Eurpoa Barbarorum and they only provide install instructions on THEIR website! Not in their downloaded files. The attitude here is no different. In all the time I have spent here either modding for CIV or DLing mods for civ I have never come across a major mod that had no installation instructions. If you cannot take the time to properly familiarize yourself with the way this community works and expect us to do everything how other communities do things then I feel sorry for you. We all work hard on our mods, and generally this is a very friendly community with everyone willing to help eachother out. ( As pointed out we are all hobby modders) to expect every one to do things the way you have seen on other sites is just wrong.

Just my 2 cents

Being a member of the Neverwinter Nights community as well as here, yes you are correct they do supply more information about installation instructions on their mods. However Neverwinter Nights is not as easy to install a full blown mod into.

Agreed. I worked extensively on the PRC Pack for NWN1, and we had a couple of guys dedicated to documentation.

Anyway, let's not all get in a snit about something trivial.

In my experience, most large mods do come with some documentation, so if a community member has an issue with a mod that does not, that's where they should be taking it up.

But that's the point, if they're sitting on my hard drive they don't.

They do. They are python code, C++ code (if you downloaded the source), and XML specs. They specify pretty damn exactly what they do. :)

You might not be able to read them. ;)

Which is fine, but I was dealing with full blown scenarios that were posted. With at times complicated features, quite different from the default game.

*nod* -- and some of them don't even include docs asto what changes they made, exactly.

On the other hand, I'd rather have someone spend their time creating new and interesting content, then hand-holding people who aren't willing to contribute.

Yeah right, I'm going to do someone's work for them. :rolleyes:

Like you. You are just as capable of writing up the installation instructions as they are, and maintaining a README that is a copy-paste of the documentation within the thread. Yet you claim it is their responsibility.

You, meanwhile, are not even sharing the modifications you do in a shareable form. You are not contributiong, instead you are taking and complaining that your gift horse doesn't come with a saddle.

Contribute. Either take your on-computer content and bundle it into a redistribution that others can use, or help document other people's content. Reformat the installation instructions in the sticky posts and make a good canonical "README.html" file that modders can include in their mods.

And if you don't contribute, whining about people who are contributing, saying that they aren't doing a good enough job, really looks asinine.

The people who don't include documentation in their mods could have contributed more. But even if all they ever did was post up an unreadable file, they have done infinitely more than you have.

Like the mod or don't. The community doesn't have to cater to your wishes.

I can't know if I like the mod or not if it never makes it into my game. Nor do I have to bother with the community if I feel it doesn't have the kind of standards I'm looking for in a mod. Keep in mind that expression, "First impressions are the most important." Many things I download, not just Civ mods, never make it past the initial opening of that archive. And the inclusion of some sort of readme is a big part of it. It gives me a chance to really decide whether I want to try it out or not. If it's not even there to begin with, it's a forgone conclusion. I won't. Think of it as marketing your product. Adding a readme is your last chance to convince someone to try out your work.

Willem, you've got over 2700 posts in this forum. A quote like this coming from someone like you is ridiculous.

No it's not. My post count comes from many years of hanging around the main discussion forums. I have rarely downloaded a Civ mod from here, certainly not since Civ 4 came out. And it's always been small files that I wanted to include in my own mods, never an actual scenario or conversion.

A user on this particular forum with over 2000 posts to his handle can't tell me he's never read the manual to a Civ game.

Barely, and not since I first got the game. And just enough then to get an idea of some of the basic changes from Civ 3. The rest I figured out as I went along. I certainly never bothered with the part about installing mods.

Again, the onus is on you to organize your hard drive. You. No one else. If you can't come up with a reasonable archive system to maintain your library it's not the fault of anyone else. The files are named such as to be recognizable, and their installation process is painfully easy. When you downloaded the things, you should've stuck them in a folder that should've told you what game they were for while you had the presence of mind to do so.

There's nothing wrong with my organization. I know exactly which files belong to which games. And I have been speaking more hypothetically as far as the Civ 4 mods have been concerned, since I only downloaded them yesterday. But like I said, I have files that I've had for years, many of them, and I certainly can't be expected to know what they're all about simply by the name of them. If the same situation were true of the Civ 4 files I recently recieved, that they had been around for awhile, they would just get lost in the shuffle. I can't be bothered trying out a file I know nothing, or have forgotten about, just to see what it does. I don't have time for that.


...and I'm beginning to wonder which mods you're complaining about. Feel free to post links.

One good example is the Ethnically Diverse Units. On the download site and in his thread and in the archive, all the documentaion refers to installing the 2.8 patch, mentioning that I must have 2.6 installed. Yet there's no info anywhere that tells me how I'm supposed to install that version.

I've pulled a large number of mods off this site recently, and I can't seem to recall a single one that didn't have a file of some form that provided information on what the mod does and who made it.

I grabbed at least a dozen mods from the Scenarios section, using mainly the ratings and the number of downloads as a guide, and only three of them included any sort of documentation. And unfortunately, all of those were for vanilla civ. So I basically ended up wasting my time. The verdict is still out on the Ethnically Diverse Units. At the very least I should be able to add them individually myself, once I get the inclination to start adding units to my game.

However Neverwinter Nights is not as easy to install a full blown mod into.

Not so much. You basically have three folders, Mods, Erfs and Haks, with the odd Override. And the file extensions make it prettt much self-explanatory as to which files go in which folder.

However Neverwinter Nights is in the minority I have found ...

I also find this a common practice with Oblivion, Baldur's Gate, Galactic Civilizations 2, even CivCity:Rome when I was still playing the game, and a some others I don't play anymore. In short every community I've dealt with except this one.

If you cannot take the time to properly familiarize yourself with the way this community works and expect us to do everything how other communities do things then I feel sorry for you. We all work hard on our mods, and generally this is a very friendly community with everyone willing to help eachother out. ( As pointed out we are all hobby modders) to expect every one to do things the way you have seen on other sites is just wrong.


I really don't understand the attitude I'm getting here. What is the problem with spending 5-10 minutes coming up with some sort of readme to include with the archives? Why is it so much trouble to open up Notepad, jot down a few basic paragraphs and save it? It's really not a big deal, yet everyone seems to be taking my input so personally. Frankly this whole episode has got me completely turned off of ever getting involved with Civ 4 mods again. The hassle is just not worth it. So good luck to you all.

For everything you've said you've run into a few mini-mods, had some problems installing them and instead of PM the creator or posting for help, you say that all of us modders are too lazy to make a small readme. Just to help you out, that might be why the forum full of modders gets irritated. When you have a problem using a mod or modpack contact the creator, don't tell the community "Come on modders, include docs!". FYI, "Come on" means you think we are not up to your par.

Go the "extra mile" and try to figure this stuff out. We will help then. Say we are a lazy community that is below par and all we do is hope you leave.

So since.

Frankly this whole episode has got me completely turned off of ever getting involved with Civ 4 mods again.

I say, "Thank Goodness".

I say, "Thank Goodness".

Here Here, couldn't agree more:rolleyes:

I don't understand what we lose. You are uninterested in contributing, and consider a suggestion to actually try to help to be offensive "why should I do their work!"

Meanwhile, you lose out on trying Ryse and Fall, SevoMod, AMRA, BetterAI, Fall from Heaven I and II, and dozens of other great mods.

How again is saying "I don't like your attitude, how dare you ask that I contribute! I'm going to take my ball and go home!" a larger problem for us than it is for you?

Ok, Willem, please get this straight. These modders are uploading these files for you to download. They've spent countless hours on mod that you can enjoy for nothing, and you're too lazy and selfish to help out, or upload anything!!

You seem to particularly have issues with White Rabbit's EDU mod? It's a matter of unzipping the mod into your mod folder, and loading it in game. Sure it could have a txt file explaining this, which would probably take 5 minutes plus uploading times (White Rabbit has now done this), but how do you think the other 3000+ people have installed and played the mod? They read the thread! What did you do..? In all the time you've spent flaming everyone, you could have read the entire EDU thread (about 28 pages long) which would have answered all the questions you ever wanted to know about EDU, and from that you could have learnt where to place the dozen other mods you have.. generally, complete mods (not mod components) have the same structure for very simple installation.

Seriously, if you can't be bothered going back to the thread and reading it then basically you've downloaded the mod for nothing. Why download it if you're just going to give up when you can't work out where to extract the files. :hmm:

Lastly, Rabbit has even spent hours on documented tutorials to help you make the units yourself, and get them in game - so stop calling everyone unprofessional. Enjoy playing Vanilla Civ or Warlords and stop being aggresive. It doesn't take much to turn this anger into something productive, like good constructive criticism or helping out by writing a 5 minute readme. If you have any major concerns it's better to PM the authors before flaming them.................

OK, Willem, I'll give you a hint:

PUT IT IN THE MODS FOLDER, CLICK LOAD A MOD


oh, if you want to play one Mod a lot, go to the config file (there's a shortcut from the main Civ 4 Folder) and change the croll down and there's an option to automatically load the mod, it's about 12 lines down, can't remember the exact wording but it's pretty self-explanatory once you find the file. If you're going to play a lot of different mods, this wont help you though.

just search for mod =

Or copy-paste your warlords shortcut & add mod =*modname* into the end, after the last ".


Guess how long those 3 posts would've takn if your 1st post was named "How do I install mods?"
Actually, they'd pointed you to the thread, which I believe is stickied, in the tutorials section.

As a Civ-gamer in 15 years, I am very impressed with the fantastic work being done by the Civ4-modders. The amount of very different games is astonishing.

But as a non-programmer I must agree to some of Willems points, though I wouldn't have put it in the same way:

It IS difficult for "ordinary" gamers to use mods - especially the first times. You wouldn't believe how little a lot of people know about finding their way in a pc.

Do you modders have to care about them? No, absolutely not. You are doing a hard work in your own time, and if people don't bother to learn basic computerskills, it's their problem.

But wouldn't it be fun to have a big audience using your work and telling their friends about it?

Don't write a manual, but please write 20 lines with the essentials:
What is the setting for the game - How to install - Where to find more info and the newest download - and of course: Who has made the mod.

And maybe think about our level of experience, when you write the text in the download-forum.

Thanks for the help on behalf of all clumsy but civ-loving pc-gamers.

Jesper

I agree with Willem to an extent. I've just come back to the game from a few months hiatus and downloaded a few mods, then I've realised I've forgotten how to install them. Some installation instructions should really be the last thing you tick off your list before you upload your mod. And just a paragraph explaining basically what your mod *is* will be appreciated, especially in a folder of 15-20 recently downloaded mods (sometimes with obscure names).

Willem could have been more polite in making his point, but I think many of you guys need to stop trying to make an enemy of him and appreciate that he is having difficulty installing mods due to a lack of documentation. I'm having the same problem and I've been browsing through several threads at the moment to no avail. This is from someone who was installing dozens of various mods a while back with no problem. I'd prefer it if people took a few minutes to explain generally how *their* mods should be installed. It is not too much to ask in my opinion.

To install a in warlords mod, the directory:
.....\Sid Meir's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods\MOD_NAME\Assets
should exist. Your .zip file for a mod should contain such an Asset directory somewhere -- if it doesn't, the mod is not easy to install.

A non-warlords mod is the same, but with \Warlords\ part of the path removed.

Usually a mod extracts to a simple directory that you just place in the Mods directory if your civ4 folder.

...

That's it. All of it. Tout. To load the mod, just select Advanced in the game menu, then load a mod, then pick the mod.

Individual files that don't come with a directory structure are hard to install. You have to find out where they go in the 'normal' version of the game and build an equivilent structure in a mod directory tree. But such mods are usually intended as a component, not a complete mod.

Now, the thing is, EVERY MOD IN CIV4 WORKS THIS WAY. Mods don't have custom install instructions, because they all should install exactly the same way.

Note that scenarios, map generators, and maps are not "mods".

I agree with Willem to an extent. I've just come back to the game from a few months hiatus and downloaded a few mods, then I've realised I've forgotten how to install them. Some installation instructions should really be the last thing you tick off your list before you upload your mod. And just a paragraph explaining basically what your mod *is* will be appreciated, especially in a folder of 15-20 recently downloaded mods (sometimes with obscure names).

Willem could have been more polite in making his point, but I think many of you guys need to stop trying to make an enemy of him and appreciate that he is having difficulty installing mods due to a lack of documentation. I'm having the same problem and I've been browsing through several threads at the moment to no avail. This is from someone who was installing dozens of various mods a while back with no problem. I'd prefer it if people took a few minutes to explain generally how *their* mods should be installed. It is not too much to ask in my opinion.


Please contact the mod creator if you have problems with his mod. Complaining to the whole community doesn't help anything. Willem came up and said the whole community is lazy and not worthy of his attention, thats why he received a poor greeting. So contact the creator of the mod in question or post asking for help instead of starting another fight.

Actually the entire problem is solved when a modpack uses an installer, like the ViSa Expansion Pack 3 does....sets registry keys, installs files and even places shortcuts so no messy edits in the Civ INI or reloading of Civ to get the mod running :)

Oh and another thing, using pakbuild's FPK's are critical to getting load times down....not a document issue but something an individual player can do if the mod creator doesn't....just an FYI ;)

Actually the entire problem is solved when a modpack uses an installer, like the ViSa Expansion Pack 3 does....sets registry keys, installs files and even places shortcuts so no messy edits in the Civ INI or reloading of Civ to get the mod running :)

Oh and another thing, using pakbuild's FPK's are critical to getting load times down....not a document issue but something an individual player can do if the mod creator doesn't....just an FYI ;)

What installer do you use?? Could you link to it.

It is an Installer from MS....we will have to get with mrgenie for the link as he set it up and configured it.

You can even program it to run scripts which clean the custom assets and cache folders on install :lol:

Awesome the next release of my mod will have to have use that!

Awesome the next release of my mod will have to have use that!

Every modpack (not modcomp) should use a self-extracting installer that also uses an icon to launch....no documentation needed :lol:

Can the self extracting installer deal with non-standard install locations?
Multiple installs of civ4?
Existing installs of the mod?

Can the self extracting installer deal with non-standard install locations?
Multiple installs of civ4?
Existing installs of the mod?

The installer pulls the registry settings to find Civ, if that has been messed with then it won't work right setup like we did for ViSa....but you could just install and go, without registry stuff.

And for those with multiple Civs installed and multiple versions of the same mod, well they know how to handle it anyway, so why worry about those experts?

And here is the link to Creating Windows Installer Packages (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/howto/winstall.mspx) so you can make your own installers.

But we suggest you find some other tools and programs to make the process quicker than creating it from scratch....we had another guy make our installer and don't know exactly what he used, but it only took days :)

also you can use NSIS compiler (null soft installer script) - same as i set for TR -it can do same, it is just what is easier to you

These last couple of posts are very useful...maybe they deserve to be in their own thread for easier reference.

These last couple of posts are very useful...maybe they deserve to be in their own thread for easier reference.

Go for it ;)

Having a nice installer separates the men from the boys as they say....:lol: