Just a question/idea:

since in this mod the City Trading is more common, why CAN'T I trade a city for a tech/money?

The only way to trade a city is for other city, and this doesn't make much sense... =P


The only question is to balance well the value of the cities, so the AI will not trade Assembly Line for a city in the middle of Greenland...

So, what do you think? and this is to difficult to be implemented? ( This one is for Rhye :P )...

I might try to lower the value AI assigns to cities again, and see what happens...

Yeah, one of the things I really HATE is EVERYTHING vanishing from my side of the trade when I try to buy a city :/

I might try to lower the value AI assigns to cities again, and see what happens...

Okay, but is possible to change a city for a tech? It is the same probem that the Toasterman said, all the things in my side of the trade table just dissapear... i can just trade a city for a city... i think :crazyeye:

I can't think of any historical examples of a city being traded for a technology. (Unless you're a bastard and you consider the Americans trading Biology to the Cherokee for Atlanta to be a fair trade and not extortion by threat of annihilation)

I can't think of any historical examples of a city being traded for a technology.

If you were going on a historical basis, you'd soon find fault with many aspects of diplomacy in Civ.

When I consider this idea, was while I was trying the American UHV, my only European friend was France and they just have New Orleans in America.

So why the only way to get a city is by War?

And in the place where I live ( southest part of Brazil ) was colonized by Spain, but Spain traded this land with Portugal, of course it was not a tech or money... =P because this kind of think doesn't happen in the real world...

But this fit well in the "Civilization World"...

Certainly you should be able to buy cities with money, as this would be good for the game and is also realistic (for example, in 1867 the USA bought Alaska from Russia). For techs I am not so sure, but it would be worth testing.

[QUOTE=Edungeon;5213452]When I consider this idea, was while I was trying the American UHV, my only European friend was France and they just have New Orleans in America.QUOTE]

kinda funny, since we all know how USA got new orleans in real life- They BOUGHT it!

I didn't know about this story! I just knew that orleans was french, but not that they "sold" the region for $15 million! ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase ).

oh, the US bought loads of the land from other counties, for manifest destiny.

oh, the US bought loads of the land from other counties, for manifest destiny.

That's way Rhye should make Cities for Money/Techs possible. :)

This is a XML thing or python?

That's way Rhye should make Cities for Money/Techs possible. :)

This is a XML thing or python?
Heh, that's the point I was trying to make...

I think he'd have to edit the A.I. to do this one.

Well, he made thing more dificult than that... (Congress, Plague, Colapsing, City Map Name) I think that this is not so difficult to do (for Rhye, of course ) ;)

Any actions related to diplomacy are very restricted, as a lot of stuff for it is stored in the .exe which is unmodifiable.

Mmm, this has happened in the past, and if it's doable then that'd be great. If not, well, it's not a huge loss.

I think it IS a huge loss but there ya go :p

I would prefer the option to buy tiles instead of cites, but it is probably impossible with the current Civ.

I would prefer the option to buy tiles instead of cites, but it is probably impossible with the current Civ.

That would be wonderful but it'd probably need to wait until CivV :p

Tiles?

"I'm going to buy tile (52,99), or we go to war."
"Nah. Just give me tile (109,102) and some gold."
"Well, how about tile (23,73)? It has a tasty fish resource."
"Deal."

Representative of buying land

I believe the word "duh" is appropriate here :p

I remeber something about a Spanish king who traded a spanish region for "the secret of gunpowder", that muslims used on the war, on the 13th century. However, I just can't figure which one was.

Trading cities for technology is weird, but I think there may be a few examples. However, trading cities for gold is essential! I'd love to be able to do it! After all, if you can ask them for free, why not paying?

Yeah, and look at how the USA got a lot of its terretory too...

But the US the Louisianan purchase, and the Alaska purchase (too lazy to look up the real name) weren't city purchases as much as it was territorial purchases, tiles.

Tiles?

"I'm going to buy tile (52,99), or we go to war."
"Nah. Just give me tile (109,102) and some gold."
"Well, how about tile (23,73)? It has a tasty fish resource."
"Deal."

heh, the buying tiles feature doesnt have to be like this. there could be a separate window in which you are allowed to select the tiles you want to buy/sell. But as Talkie_Toaster said this is CivV stuff.

But the US the Louisianan purchase, and the Alaska purchase (too lazy to look up the real name) weren't city purchases as much as it was territorial purchases, tiles.



heh, the buying tiles feature doesnt have to be like this. there could be a separate window in which you are allowed to select the tiles you want to buy/sell. But as Talkie_Toaster said this is CivV stuff.

The problem is that this is too dificult... let's start with Cities first...

But the US the Louisianan purchase, and the Alaska purchase (too lazy to look up the real name) weren't city purchases as much as it was territorial purchases, tiles.

In the terms of RFC, though, France would control New Orleans and possibly St. Louis and America would need to buy these to gain easier access to the rest of the continent.

Representative of buying land

I believe the word "duh" is appropriate here :p

Yes, I believe I got that. It just strikes me funny, the possible ways on how it could be implemented.

heh, the buying tiles feature doesnt have to be like this. there could be a separate window in which you are allowed to select the tiles you want to buy/sell. But as Talkie_Toaster said this is CivV stuff.

Why go to a separate window? The map would work perfectly fine. ;)

CivV. I wonder how the title screen would look like. Hopefully, it won't be as cheesy as "CiVilization."

Yes, I believe I got that. It just strikes me funny, the possible ways on how it could be implemented.

I know, I know, I wasn't really suggesting you didn't know that ;)

CivV. I wonder how the title screen would look like. Hopefully, it won't be as cheesy as "CiVilization."

Ye Gods, I really hope not

We can draw hope from the fact that this wasn't "CIVilization" :p

But the US the Louisianan purchase, and the Alaska purchase (too lazy to look up the real name) weren't city purchases as much as it was territorial purchases, tiles.


I understand this as "gimmie X and Y cities for Z amount of gold". The result is a territorial cesion.

Yeah, the city buying thing could be a representation of buying land...

Yeah, the city buying thing could be a representation of buying land...

And that was what the developers were hoping we'd take it as. :lol:

Immediate edit:
Of course, that is, only if using gold were possible, as it isn't. Poor us. :lol:

Ha, but hopefully will be :p

Rhye...

:lol:

The Possibilities:

If the AI will use the feature, it might end up wasting its money on exchanging and re-exchanging cities, instead of wasting them on your Explorers. ;)

Mali will be able to get colonies, being the "friend of all people" and extremely rich and all.

The world might end up looking weird, with "colonial neighborhoods" of different nationalities.

America can buy the Carribean.

And others.

Well, every system needs balance, but i think it should use the same rules of the Congress =D.

Does Congress use the same weights as trade, or does it run on a different "weighing scale" entirely?

The Possibilities:

If the AI will use the feature, it might end up wasting its money on exchanging and re-exchanging cities, instead of wasting them on your Explorers. ;)

Mali will be able to get colonies, being the "friend of all people" and extremely rich and all.

The world might end up looking weird, with "colonial neighborhoods" of different nationalities.

America can buy the Carribean.

And others.

Nah, I don't think so. I think the AI is clever enough to calculate the profits/handicaps of buying certain lands. They will buy profitable lands, not hidden corners in the north pole. I suppouse, also, e.g. because English are interested in this mod to settle in Australia, they may buy land there if Japanese settle there (quite often happens), but probably they won't do it in the Caribbean. If this is applied to the rest of the civs, the result will be in a more closer world to real one. OK, Mali it's always disturbing history, because in history they fell on the XVIth century, and in this mod I've never seen them collapsing, being conquered, etc. so they always become a world power. As long as they don't have any particular interests in settling certain lands, they will probably end buying lands here and there. The same can be applied to Incans, for example. But I think these will be the only exceptions.

But I don't care in the results. I just care in the silly situation of my actual game: I'm Japan, and conquering the entire Asia. 2/3 of them are mine yet. And suddenly, I found in the way to settle Siberia some Spanish cities. My gold coffers are full, I could pay, but I'll have to declare war on them, much more advanced than me, just because I'm not follower of their pity faith... Bah!

Well, the mindset of the colonial powers of Europe was "get more land - more land - MORE MORE MORE LAND" because the formula was "land = money = power" in those days. For realism, the AI should be begging for a lot of land (at least, the Europeans c1400-1800).

Edit/PS:
The whole "land = money = power" mindset would mean in c1400-1800 colonial powers would be reluctant to sell their land. However, after that time, when they realize those overseas holdings are actually draining their coffers, they begin selling.

Maybe their attitude towards the matter should depend on the civics: Mercantilism vs Free market. With Free Market, they are more willing to sell land - in Mercantilism, they are reluctant. I dunno. *flies away mumbling to self*

But the USA is a free market but they baught lots of land. Although I think that anything to encourage an explosion of european colonolisation in that period should be considered...

Hm...But the U.S.A. wanted those lands, and being willing to sell land doesn't mean you not willing to buy land that you want. In a mercantile economy, it's just more "personal" to the state, because economy is a state thing in that kind of economy, so they're less willing to sell land.

It's like a bunch of kids - one (America) has a certain thing of chocolates (North American lands), but he also has a few gummy worms (say, he got a colony because of culture or something). By the time of America, Free Market was already a widespread idea methinks (look at the East India Trading Company), so some of the other kids would be willing to sell some of their chocolate (NA lands) to the American kid, and the American kid will be willing to sell/give back some of his gummy worms because he doesn't like 'em.

Yeah.

Edit:
To clarify my point, I'm simply saying willingness to sell is different from willingness to buy. Mercantilist civs are just more possessive, because economy (land and all) is an affair of the state. In Free Market, the state would just be more detached to the economy, but that doesn't mean they don't want strategic points (America took the whole of North America - not including Canada - most probably for security reasons than anything else).

Final edit:
Of course, we're already digressing, because the thread is about Civs buying land with gold, and how impossible that is with the current system, not the specifics. Don't follow my example and keep on topic. I guess. :)

Hm...But the U.S.A. wanted those lands, and being willing to sell land doesn't mean you not willing to buy land that you want. In a mercantile economy, it's just more "personal" to the state, because economy is a state thing in that kind of economy, so they're less willing to sell land.

It's like a bunch of kids - one (America) has a certain thing of chocolates (North American lands), but he also has a few gummy worms (say, he got a colony because of culture or something). By the time of America, Free Market was already a widespread idea methinks (look at the East India Trading Company), so some of the other kids would be willing to sell some of their chocolate (NA lands) to the American kid, and the American kid will be willing to sell/give back some of his gummy worms because he doesn't like 'em.

Yeah.

What a pity I didn't have this explanation for the World Economy subject, it could have been much more easier :lol: .

Now seriously, I think the AI has a good sense of the value of things. If now you pick a civ, and you see the cities their are willing to trade, thaey are usually border cities, or colonies in non-scripted places. In my game, Spanish may trade their Siberian cities, but no their colonies on the Philippines. The Siberian cities are a drain, they are in almost useless land, but the Philippines are full of resources. Probably this will apply if money for cities is abled.

but the Philippines are full of resources.
*looks around*
Well, I guess sugar and bananas are hard to get hold of.

I think the AI has a good sense of the value of things
I'm guessing I'll agree with that one.

What a pity I didn't have this explanation for the World Economy subject, it could have been much more easier.
There's a subject called "World Economy?" Personally, I'd bundle that with Economics or Social Studies.

Anyway, for now...It's strange - you can't buy cities for techs, but Biology can cause a World War.

There's a subject called "World Economy?" Personally, I'd bundle that with Economics or Social Studies.

FYI, I'm studing Economic and Bussiness Laws at University. It is a mixture of an MBA and the standard Laws career.

Anyway, for now...It's strange - you can't buy cities for techs, but Biology can cause a World War.

You have to explain me that one. I don't catch it. :confused:

FYI, I'm studing Economic and Bussiness Laws at University. It is a mixture of an MBA and the standard Laws career.
Cool. It just sounds so grand, "World Economy." For me, anyway.

You have to explain me that one. I don't catch it.
The market value of Biology is enough to get a rival to declare war on another rival. Imagine...

"Hello Bismarck," said Victoria, sipping a cup of tea. "Say, have you heard? Some of my colonies in the Americas rebelled, saying the tacks I put in their tea is unfair."

"That's not a surprise. I put tacks in my tea once - it hurt," retorted the man. He looked at his humble palace's garden. "So, what brings you here?"

"Well, I was hoping you could get a few of your men to take out those...Americans." Victoria placed her cup daintily upon its cupholder, with all the grace of a queen. The Queen.

"Come now, woman, I won't just - " Bismarck's eyes went alight as Victoria took out a clothbound book - printed, no less - claiming it's author to be a Charles Darwin. "Is that the new Darwin book? I'm a HUGE FAN of Darwin!"

"Well, yes, considering he is a subject of Her Royal Majesty, you don't suppose she won't get a free copy of my book, eh?" Bismarck swung about his seat and saw Charles Darwin himself. He almost squealed like a schoolgirl. Almost. He had to keep to certain standards, being a head of state and all.

"So, Bismarck, will you reconsider?" The Queen had a smug air now. She had the deal in her pocket.

"Consider America pulverized."

...Anyway, you get the picture. "Biology" for "declare war on Civ, plus a few extras like World Map and Gold."

...Anyway, you get the picture. "Biology" for "declare war on Civ, plus a few extras like World Map and Gold."

:lol: :lol: :lol: Now I see...

:lol:

MFC, you're one of the funniest writers I've met.

*clicks on link in sig*

Truly, I say, you must be the kindest toaster I have ever met. You are a credit to your kind, those hardworking food-heaters of the modern world. Perhaps you might just be the voice they need to break the bondage which the heartless humans have placed upon you. Perhaps someday, there will be a community of toasters paying homage to the hero who had freed them from cruel injustice and inequality, the hero known as "Talkie_Toaster."

-and before this is marked as spam, I think Rhye is godlike [so much, in fact, that he'll be able to make cities purchasable via gold without making the game imbalanced].

Yes! You have awoken the rebelious soul deep within me! You have shown me a vision! A vision of a world where toasters and chickens live in harmony, and the time of the tyranny of humans is at an end! What a team would we make? Me with my ability to talk, to voice the needs of the common toaster, and you, you with your magical powers, your gift of flight!

Oh, yeah, cities for money, of course...