Questions and answer tread about units...

First question, ships... Numenor and Faras... Ships? what ships? Heroes??? got some questions...

I haven't gotten around to adding ships yet, though i've downloaded quite a few ships.

Heroes- well, they're coming later

We'll have ships to all factions, but naval warfare is not a big deal in middle-earth (we plan to have war ships only in the Second Age, by the time of Númenor). Probably just Work Boats, transports, and 3 levels of war ships.
About heroes, well, we need a programmer, and first we need to have regular units. But we plan to have a bunch of heroes, later (yet to decide how many). The list of units, so far, is:
For the units, I've thought of having a basic set of units for the humans (Edain and Middle Men), and each group of civs (the Sindar, the Noldor, the Dwarves, the Easterlings, the Haradrim, the Silvan elves, the Shadow) would have their own change of those units. For example, there would be a Swordsman, a Noldo Swordsman, a Dwarf Swordsman, an Orc Swordsman, etc. Also, Each civ should have some unique units that makes it different from the others of the same group: for example, the Rohirrim should have more cavalry units ("éoreds", for example), the Easterlings should have some chariots, the Haradrim should have Oliphants, the Shadow should have Balrogs, Dragons, werewolves, vampires, flames, etc.
Here are my ideas for the standart units (--> means upgrades to):

Swords:
Warrior: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 30, requires Bronze Working tech and a metal resource (bronze, iron)
--> Swordsman: Strength 7, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Iron Working tech and a metal resource (iron only)
--> Long Swordsman: Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Long Swords tech and a iron resource
--> Swordsmaster: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 80, requires Swordsmanship tech and a iron resource
--> Infantry: Strength 18, movement 1, hammer cost 95, requires Total War tech and a iron resource
--> Heavy Infantry: Strength 21, movement, hammer cost 110, requires Plate Armor tech and a iron resource

Poles:
Spearman: Strength 4, movement 1, hammer cost 25, requires Hunting tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units
--> Phalanx: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Infantry Tactics tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Lanceman: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Halberdier: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 25% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Pikeman: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 75% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Partisan: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
Javelin Thrower

Axes:
Axeman: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 35, requires Weaponry tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Melee units
--> Great-Axeman: Strength 7, movement 1, hammer cost 50, requires Battle Axes tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
Axethrower: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Weaponry tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +40% vs Melee units, 1 1st stryke
Clubs:
Maceman: Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 75, requires Improved Smithing tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
--> Hammerer: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 95, requires War Hammer tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
--> Mauler: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 125, requires Total War tech, a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units

Bows:
Bowman: Strength 3, movement 1, hammer cost 20, requires Archery tech, +50% when defending cities and +10% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
--> Archer: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Sharpshooting tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
--> Longbowman: Strength 9, movement 1, hammer cost 60, requires Longbows tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 2 1st strikes
--> Advanced Archer: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Total War tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 3 1st strikes
--> Crossbowman: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 100, requires Crossbows tech, +20% vs Melee units, 2 1st strikes

Mounted, Swords:
Knight: Strength 7, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Cavalry Tactics tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses
--> Paladin: Strength 10, movement 2, hammer cost 70, requires Chivalry tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses
--> Heavy Cavalry: Strength 20, movement 2, hammer cost 140, requires Total War tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses

Mounted, Spears:
Horseman: Strength 6, movement 2, hammer cost 45, requires Mounted Combat tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses and has +20% vs Cavalry units
--> Rider: Strength 8, movement 2, hammer cost 60, requires Combined Armies tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units
--> Light Cavalry: Strength 13, movement 3, hammer cost 100, requires Horsemanship tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units

Mounted, Bows:
Mouted Bowman: Strength 4, movement 2, hammer cost 30, requires Horseback Riding and Archery techs, and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
--> Mounted Archer: Strength 8, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Strategy and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
--> Horse Archer: Strength 12, movement 3, hammer cost 90, requires Military Training and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike

Siege:
Ram: Strength 0, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-15%)
--> Stone Thrower: Strength 4, movement 1, hammer cost 60, requires Improved Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-20%), causes collateral damage
--> Catapult: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 110, requires Ballistics tech, can bombard city defenses (-35%), causes collateral damage
--> Trebuchet: Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 200, requires Trebuchets tech, can bombard city defenses (-50%), causes collateral damage
--> Siege Tower: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 80, requires Advanced Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-25%)

Great People:
Great Loremaster (Scientist)
Great Craftsman (Engineer)
Great Bard (Artist)
Great Leader (Genneral)

Civilian:
Settler
Worker

I have downloaded the mod so far and going to check it :) What about spells... The only wizards is Istari and Sauron what i have understanded...

By spells, we mean many supernatural skills, like the cure of Elrond or other cool ones.

Yeah, and gandalf cool shield thing :)

Chugginator's made a basic Uruk-Hai, here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5300391#post5300391)

he's really good (looking - same joke as before:rolleyes: )

where are the hobbits? :)

They're coming eventually... eventually...

Well, one thing really disturbing in the movie, i know this will be in the OOC tread by myself, the eä... But when on the topic...

Glamdring doesen't shine when orches are close :mad:

Founded this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4667

Thankyou again Chugg :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4823
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4788

What about unique units you can only get by having specific wonders.

Ideas:

Rivendell - Special Ranger units
Moria or Lonely Mt - Special Dwarven defenders
Caras galadhon? - special elven archers
March of the Ents - Ent units

Rivendell allows rangers?
Shouldn't like Lorien or Thranduil's Halls allow that?

Rivendell is where the Rangers of the North stayed is it not? That is where the last direct decendants of Elendil fled to and lived at. They were the ones called the Rangers correct?

i think xmen510 is right, but i'm not sure.

The rangers lived in the surrounding area... Not so many in rivendell...

they used it as a sort of base/ resting area, though.

Didnt some also live in brie?

yes, in so much as the lived anywhere

So why make rivendell a place for them, it should be, A wonder called "Rangers from the north" or something.

maybe... we'll see

Maybe just make it the Arnor UU...

Maybe just make it the Arnor UU...

The UU?:eek:
TSK TSK! all the civs will have many UUs, ;)

I mean, i can't see the Shadow having only one UU...:lol:

Okay, an Arnor UU. Wasn't meaning to imply anything!

i'm just kidding

Who gets the Istari?

Isnt that a project?

Anyone. Except perhaps the Shadow. But only Gandalf and maybe Radagast will be heroes, Saruman is already a leader.

No love for the 2 Blue Wizards that went east and into the south? Oh well, I guess we can't have everything.

We dont know so much about them, and saruman would get himself as a leader heroe...

Hmm... perhaps we could assign wizards to groups - Saruman gets the evil men and orcs (or rather the other way around), the Elves and the good men get Gandalf, and ???????? get Radagast.

Saruman isnt pure evil... He just got addicted to the ring and Sauron used him as Saruman believed he and Sauron could ally...

Essentially, he became evil. No, he's not pure evil, only Morgoth is pure evil. He got decieved, but I think if he wasn't quite evil, then he wouldn't have wrecked the Shire later.

That was because he was getting mad...

Well, Saruman currently is a leader of the Dunlendings. He may or may not become evil, it depends on the player. He may become a king unit if we include king units (it's on the plans, but to be done only when we finish the heroes). And the Blue Wizards are an option, but they are so unimportant to the story that I found it better to don't put them.

They was spying or allied whith/on the southern mens i believe,

Their names were Alatar and Pallando. To quote the Wikipedia article on The Blue Wizards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Wizards):

in a text written in the last year or two of Tolkien's life (published in The Peoples of Middle-earth). An alternate set of names are given — Morinehtar and Rómestámo (or Rome(n)star), Darkness-slayer and East-helper. It is not clear whether these names were intended to be replacements for Alatar and Pallando or whether they were a second set of names (for instance, their names used in Middle-earth, in the same vein as "Gandalf" is used for Olórin).

They are said to have arrived not in the Third Age, but in the Second, around the year 1600, the time of the Forging of the One Ring. Their mission though is still to the east, to weaken the forces of Sauron. And it is here said that the Wizards far from failed; rather, they had a pivotal role in the victories of the West at the end of both the Second and the Third Ages. At the same time, Tolkien considered the possibility that Glorfindel arrived back in Middle-earth along with the Blue Wizards. On this later, more positive interpretation, the Blue Wizards may have been as successful as Olórin, just located in a different theatre beyond the borders of the map in The Lord of the Rings.

Might as well include them, if only as names on the lists of Great People.

as great spies, possibly.

Great Spies seems to fit perfectly, based on the above description.

Fine by me. :)

But we cant have the ninja for that...

You mean the Great Spy graphic? Obviously that was going to have to change.

Granted that wizards will be spies - but will all spies by wizards?

I don't think so, I think Bilbo at least should be a Great Spy. Or something.

Total off-topic - how do you guys get your rank titles changed?

No! Gandalf won't be a spy, also. I prefer him as a spellcaster... If we manage to give him at least a few spells, he will be one of the funniest heroes to build. Radagast could or could not be a spy, depends if we find any nature-based spells for him. And we'll have hobbits as spies, and some hobbit heroes should be Great Spies.

Total off-topic - how do you guys get your rank titles changed?


Open the "My Account" page; on the left is a series of links. Select "Edit Profile." The first option on this page is the add a cutom user title.

Radagast could or could not be a spy, depends if we find any nature-based spells for him.

something like FFH2' bloom? or maybe "create" an eagle to help him, or something along those lines

something like FFH2' bloom? or maybe "create" an eagle to help him, or something along those lines

Or maybe he could temporarily add productivity to animal resource squares when he passes through them.

What does "bloom" does exactly? I'd like things like summon a bird to spy for him, or improve forest movement (kind of "haste", but only for forest movement).

Unite animals?

bloom creates a forest.

Great, perfect for Radagast, and a very powerful skill...

I was thinking about Gandalf. Will you be having him at different powerlevels depending on era of play in scenarios. Or even if when he dies the first time, he comes back as Gandalf The White after that?. Just wondering if you have put any thought into the different stages of Gandalf's life.

Probably a promo or upgrade makes him become the white.

Promotion should work, esp. if you can make it require a specific level (not Combat Whatever, just level of xp).

The only problem with promo would be that, in FFH at least, the spells usually uses the promo system, rendering the spellcaster unable to get promoted normally.

if someone has nothing to do, they can make a list of great people :please:

Can add as a hero to Turin and Beleg.

Just think about the units for other races... The elves should have units with +1 Strength, but more expensive than the humans: in the Age of the Stars, same price; 1st Age, +10 hammers; 2nd Age, +25 hammers; 3rd Age, +70 hammers. This would make them stronger early in the game, but reduce their power in later ages.

look at this nice unit... i think it could be useful.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5926439#post5926439

Reskin it black and call it Shadow Siege Ship or something.

Oh, good point, we have to think about the ships... There will be no combat ships until the second age. Many of the naval units would be UUs, like the Swan Ships (a weaker transport ship, but cheaper and available earlier) for the Teleri, the Corsairs for the Haradrim, and several boats for Númenor. A sketch, without any values (but they should be expensive, in ME we didn't have many ships):
Work Boat: normal, available to all
Swan Ship: only ship available in the Age of Stars, only to the Teleri (transport ship)
Ship: first transport, no attack, available to all
Transport: better transport, not completely defenseless, available to all
Warship: first military naval unit, available to all
Siege Ship: can bombard cities, good against transports, slow, weak against warships, available to all
Scout ship: weak, but fast, good to exploration, available to all
High Ship: best naval unit, hybrid between Warship and Transport, only to Númenor (maybe Gondor/Arnor)
Fast Ship: best explorer ship, only to Númenor
Great ship: late game siege ship, available to all
Quick ship: late game warship, available to all
Corsair: ???, only to Harad

Corsair should be an improved Warship, maybe available later as an upgrade for Haradrim Warships?

"Corsairs" were the pirates who manned the Haradrim ships; the vessels themselves were called dromunds.

And I don't think the Telerin swanships should be weaker than standard midgame transports. They should be a unique unit with a definite advantage - perhaps free navigation and sentry promotions, for extra speed and visibility range.

rememeber, though, that this mod is designed to be played on radnom maps... that means archipalegos and the such... people need the possibility to build ships strong enough for actaul naval warfare, and farily early, too.

also, i was wondering. is it possible to make ships capture and hold a city? i think that would be a nice feature for the Dromunds of harad )that's corsairs of umbar to those of you who didn't read the posts above :p

I doubt it. Physically, if all you have is a ship in the harbour, how can the crew take control of the populace? With bare hands? Ships can sit there and throw cannon balls, but you need soldiers on board to go ashore and occupy the town.

Well, we can have Corsairs as an "amphibious" unit, and the Dromunds as ships. But about the telerin ships, they wouldn't be weaker; they would be "regular" transports, but earlier and cheaper. Let's supose the first transport costs 50 hammers and carries 2 units, it would cost 25 hammers and carry 1 unit, and they would start their naval expansion very earlier.
I thought about the random map thing, and it's the only reason The Shadow can build ships, and also we have ships in the first age - only the Teleri, the Falathrim and the Gondolindrin (maybe the Sindar of Doriath, after they joined these peoples) built any ships in that age, and there were not any military sea units (maybe because there were no enemies to fight). But I just realized we should have at least one small ship capable of attacking, otherwise a player could simply put ships all round one city and it wouldn't be able to do anything.
Now, opinions: should we have any "sea monsters" for the Shadow? Watcher in the Water?

Watcher in the Water deffinately. Was there any mention of water based Dragons in any of the History books?

I don't think Tolkien described aquatic dragons, but mythological dragons were often associated with water. And even today, people still report sighting sea serpents occasionally...

Maybe barbarian sea animals as well. Like the giant turtle Fastitocalon mentioned in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

Yes, this is a great one... For those who don't know, it's a monster like a huge turtle, that lures sailman to disembark in it's back (that resembles an island) and then turns around to kill them. But we may change it a bit...

Perhaps it could actually look like a 1-tile island - then move and attack whenever anybody lands on it.

http://eressea.ru/library/gallery/shemyak/large/fastitocalon_s.jpg

Difficult to do... Maybe give it the look of a small island, and make it have a very limited move rate, but it would be very, very hard to make it attack units that landed on it: we would have to make a sea unit that could fight land units only, and make it do not move into land or against enemy ships...

I need a list of the standard units: those that every civ will have. i can associate them with tech myself, but i need to know what we'll have, and thier progression.

eg
Warrior->swordsman->axeman->etc...

thanks

First page, third post, in the spoiler. I posted everything there, including tech, all statistics, etc. But they aren't exactly "standart", as there should be one version of them for each race - one for Elves, one for Dwarves, one for the Shadow and one for Men.

It would be easier if they were all standard (at least for the basic units, like warrior and swordsman... then all we'de need was one reference per unit, with just different art.)

I didn't even know it was possible to change the art for some civs without changing the units. But it would be nice to have them all this way, though this ruins the idea of elves stronger in the start and weaker later. But I'll try to make their racial civic give some bonuses early game, so we just may give a stronger civic to Men in late game.

it a BTS thing. for example: <UnitArtStyleType>UNIT_ARTSTYLE_DUNLAND</UnitArtStyleType>

it just makes things a lot easier. maybe we could give them different promotions...

I thought about that, but would be more difficult to make them obsolete with time... But probably can be done.

I made these guys just now, should be used for the "Woodland Realm of Northern Mirkwood" civ I guess (is there one?).

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9910/mirkwoodelvesjk3.jpg

Beautiful looking units Chuggi. They are sweet.

tHEY LOOK perfect!

They look perfect... exactly how i'de imagine woodelves.

i also noticed that your the ring that tells what unit is selected is the writing on the ring. how did you get it like that? could you send it to me? thanks

Edit, wheres the DL for the elves?

Wow, it's one of the best units I've ever seen! They really are exactly like woodelves. The selection ring (literally) is also great... The only thing that isn't perfect is that they are with Harad's flag and not the Nandor's, but it's not a real problem... :D

Wow, it's one of the best units I've ever seen! They really are exactly like woodelves. The selection ring (literally) is also great... The only thing that isn't perfect is that they are with Harad's flag and not the Nandor's, but it's not a real problem... :D

Ah so the Nandor would be the right civ for these guys.. I was thinking that I would have to make another flag, so I didn't worry about the flags for the screenshot.


They look perfect... exactly how i'de imagine woodelves.

i also noticed that your the ring that tells what unit is selected is the writing on the ring. how did you get it like that? could you send it to me? thanks

Edit, wheres the DL for the elves?

I just put the ring in to see what you guys thought. I think it still needs a little work, looks faint on ocean tiles for example, and I removed the indicators that were red or green depending on whether the unit had moved or not because they got in the way.. so I'll try and find a spot for them.

Once I finish a couple more flags I'll put everything in a ZIP and send you guys a link so you can d/l everything.

EDIT: If you're interested, I made the elf using the Ancient Spy unit from BTS as a base, and then made a new hood and texture and re-boned it to use archer animations.

Hey made some spearmen for Rohan! I think these guys look great, anyway here's a screenshot. I promise that I will upload a set of these guys with horses and everything, and I'll upload the elvish set then as well.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6088/rohanpn1.jpg

they look good... you really are amazing at this.

I have a proposal for rohirrim units. all mounted rohirrim units get one extra movement point (and that includes the scout)

what do yall think?

Sounds fair.

Sounds good.

This is sort of off topis but do you have any LOTR 3rd age unit art that is not in the fantasy units database that I could use for a War of the Ring Mod I am working on. PM me if you have any that I could use.

I'll upload everything I have eventually

Elven units too? *looks hopeful*

Everything I've made so far... I'm not sure if I'll be making anymore fantasy units though. Pretty much I just have to polish the ones I've half made and make sure they're bug free.

There's some woodelves at the top of the screen under a spoiler ;)

Wow.. good units bro, can't wait for more..:).

Anyone considered Grond as a TA hero unit for Mordor

yeah, we probably using him as one of the shadow heros

"Him?" Wasn't Grond just an inanimate object?

I thought it was like the battering ram they used.

Yes - named after Morgoth's mace with which he fought Fingolfin.

Yes.

I see where you're coming from, but to me, any unit powerful enough, deserves to be a hero.

Of course, if you guys don't think so, then, say so here.

I Say YEA! (Sort of like a Yes, but in Olde English!). If you can have a Trebuche or Catapult unit you can have ..... GROND! .....! :goodjob:

its not the wall-cracker... Its the mace...

Well, that could work too.....:D

After doing a little research:
Grond - The battering-ram that breached Minas Tirith’s Great Gate
Date - Seen at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the hours after midnight on 15 March III 3019
The battering ram used to destroy Minas Tirith's Great Gate during the Battle of the Pelennor. It took its name from the ancient weapon of Morgoth: Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld.
Meaning - 'Club' is the ultimate literal meaning of Grond, a name that dates back to the First Age and possibly before. It was originally applied to the great mace of Morgoth, the so-called Hammer of the Underworld, that he used in his defeat of Fingolfin at the gates of Angband. The battering-ram used to break the gates of Minas Tirith in the Third Age took its name from this mace.

Grond - The Hammer of the Underworld
Dates - Presumably, but not certainly, destroyed in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age
Called the Hammer of the Underworld, Morgoth's mighty mace that he bore when he slew Fingolfin before the doors of Angband.
Meaning - According to The Etymologies (The History of Middle-earth Volume 5, The Lost Road and Other Writings III The Etymologies), where the word is associated with a root runda meaning 'rough piece of wood'.

The ram should be a hero in the sense of a unique unit, but it should not have the normal powers of heroes, nor special "upgrades" and promos some heroes will have. The mace, well, maybe a promo for a hero... If we manage to do the King units, it's easy to see who would have it.

i think maybe we shojuld steal from FFH, and implement an equipment mechanic.

Of course. First, we need to see what FFH has already done; if there's something we want and they don't have, we go looking for someone who can do it.

They've done equipments...

What's FFH?

fall from heaven :)

a really good mod. i'de recommend downloading it.

Off topic, but I thought I would mention that The Hobbit is now officially on. New Line and Peter Jackson have settled all litigation and he and Fran will be Executive Producers on the Two Movie Set. Great news for all fans. Check out, CNN, comingsoon.net. themoveblog.com, theonering.net and lordoftherings.net for the announcement.

Nice! i can't wait

Looks like the official web site for the latest news on the new movies will be http://www.thehobbitblog.com/
I can't wait :D

Awesome, it says Peter Jackson is directing it as well :D

I saw this yesterday, it's a reaaly good new. As far as we know, PJ is only executive producer, but I'm sure he we'll direct it as well. Or so I hope.
Anyway, new ideas for the mod may pop out soon...

I'm making warrior upgrade to every other first tier units, okay?

Also there's going to be 2 hobbit movies :):):) Tis great!

i saw :)

it's going to be good...

so far away, though :sad:

i'm adding a recon line (scout, ranger, etc) to the units, too.

Cool, very cool.

What did you mean about adding a warrior to the first tier units? Are you adding people armed with clubs before the ones armed with metal and such?

Yes, a gerneic, really cheap one that comes in the begining.

I'm not sure elves and dwarves (and The Shadow) should have this kind of unit... They already had millenia to develop their skills, so they would all use metal weapons. Perhaps they should all start with the tech that makes this unit obsolete? And what name are you using, as Warrior is already the name of a sword-armed unit?

Warrior: Strength 3/3, movement 1, hammer cost 30, Basic. upgrades to all

Swordsman: Strength 5/3, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Iron Working tech and a metal resource (iron only)
--> Long Swordsman: Strength 9/5, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Long Swords tech and a iron resource
--> Swordsmaster: Strength 14/10, movement 1, hammer cost 80, requires Swordsmanship tech and a iron resource
--> Lieutenant: Strength 18/14, movement 1, hammer cost 95, requires Total War tech and a iron resource (Limit 5) increases Morale
--> Captain: Strength 21/18, movement 1, hammer cost 110, requires Plate Armor tech and a iron resource (Limit 3)

Poles:
Spearman: Strength 2/4, movement 1, hammer cost 25, requires Hunting tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units
--> Javlineer: Strength 3/6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Infantry Tactics tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Lanceman: Strength 4/8, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Halberdier: Strength 8/4, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 25% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Pikeman: Strength 8/12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 75% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
--> Phalanx: Strength 12/8, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands


Axes:
Axeman: Strength 5/2, movement 1, hammer cost 35, requires Weaponry tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Melee units
--> Axe bearer: Strength 7/2, movement 1, hammer cost 50, requires Battle Axes tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
-->Maceman: Strength 10/2, movement 1, hammer cost 75, requires Improved Smithing tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
Dwarven UU: Hammerer: 10/5
Shadow/Dunland UU: Mauler: 14/2

Bows:
Bowman: Strength 1/3, movement 1, hammer cost 20, requires Archery tech, +50% when defending cities and +10% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
--> Archer: Strength 2/6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Sharpshooting tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
--> Longbowman: Strength 3/9, movement 1, hammer cost 60, requires Longbows tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 2 1st strikes
--> Flurry: Strength 4/12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Total War tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 3 1st strikes
--> Crossbowman: Strength 5/15, movement 1, hammer cost 100, requires Crossbows tech, +20% vs Melee units, 2 1st strikes

Mounted, Swords:
Rider: Strength 7/1, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Cavalry Tactics tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses
--> Cavalier: Strength 10/1, movement 2, hammer cost 70, requires Chivalry tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses
Rohan UU: Rider of Rohan (movement 3)
--> Heavy Cavalry: Strength 15/2, movement 2, hammer cost 140, requires Total War tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses
Rohan UU: Eorlingas (movement 3)

Mounted, Spears:
Horseman: Strength 6/1, movement 2, hammer cost 45, requires Mounted Combat tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses and has +20% vs Cavalry units
--> Knight: Strength 8/1, movement 2, hammer cost 60, requires Combined Armies tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units
--> Light Cavalry: Strength 13/1, movement 3, hammer cost 100, requires Horsemanship tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units

Mounted, Bows:
Mouted Bowman: Strength 4/2, movement 2, hammer cost 30, requires Horseback Riding and Archery techs, and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
--> Mounted Archer: Strength 8/4, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Strategy and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
--> Horse Archer: Strength 12/6, movement 3, hammer cost 90, requires Military Training and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike


Assorted hereos

the Fractional Number denotes attack and defenses, which is now possible, due to FFH

I like it.

yeah me too :)

mabe some more flavorful names for the units?

I've finished all the SwordUnits, starting on Poles.

I need UUs

Some suggestions for unique units by civ.

VANYAR: Shining Host (replaces Swordsman, starts with combat1 & drill1).

NOLDOR: Jewelsmith (replaces Worker, adds 1 :gold:per turn to every mine or mill).

TELERI: Swanship (replaces Caravel, +1 movement, starts with combat1 & sentry).

SINDAR: March Warden (replaces Archer, starts with woodsman1&2).

FALATHRIM: Shorebark (replaces Galley, +1 movement, +1 carrying capacity).

NANDOR: Greenbow (replaces Archer, starts with woodsman1 & sentry).

NUMENOREAN: Pallaran (replaces Galleon, +2 strength, +1 carrying capacity).

ARNOR: Ranger (replaces Maceman, starts with march & mobility).

GONDOR: Sentry (replaces Pikeman, starts with city garrison1 & charge).

NORTHMAN: Beorning (replaces Spearman, +1 strength, starts with woodsman1).

ROHIRRIM: Mearas (replaces Knight, +1 strength, starts with shock).

DUNLAND: Dun Warrior (replaces Swordsman, starts with formation & drill1).

HARADRIM: Mumakil (replaces War Elephant, +2 strength, starts with formation).

EASTERLING: Wainrider (replaces Chariot, +2 strength, starts with city raider1).

LONGBEARD DWARF: Baruk Khazad (replaces Axeman, starts with city garrison1 & guerilla1).

FIREBEARD DWARF: Masked Axer (replaces Axeman, starts with shock & guerilla1).

THE SHADOW: Uruk-hai (replaces Swordsman, +1 movement, starts with cover & shock).

ANGMAR: Hillman (replaces Maceman, starts with city raider 1 & guerilla1).

Some suggestions for unique units by civ.
GONDOR: Sentry (replaces Pikeman, starts with city garrison1 & charge).

NORTHMAN: Beorning (replaces Spearman, +1 strength, starts with woodsman1).

LONGBEARD DWARF: Baruk Khazad (replaces Axeman, starts with city garrison1 & guerilla1).

Only changed names of units

GONDOR: Tower Guards (replaces Pikeman, starts with city garrison1 & charge).

NORTHMAN: Daleman (replaces Spearman, +1 strength, starts with woodsman1).

LONGBEARD DWARF: Dragon Hunters (replaces Axeman, starts with city garrison1 & guerilla1).

thanks :)

I'll use those...

though i'm not sure the jeweler is doable... at least not with my negligable skill at modding.

i'm not sure the jeweler is doable... at least not with my negligable skill at modding.

Alternatively,

NOLDOR: Elven Rider (replaces Horse Archer, +2 strength, starts with shock).

I suppose the Noldorin affinity for gems could be better represented by their unique building. Have you got a list of UBs yet?

No, not yet, but your right... that would be good.

And i think "FIREBEARD DWARF: Axe Thrower (replaces Axeman, starts with shock & guerilla1)." can be more unique

My name "Masked Axer" was based on the fact that the Belegost dwarves in The Silmarillion wore "great masks in battle hideous to look upon" - which I thought was their most unique practice.

Suggestions for unique buildings by civ (I have listed the overall benefits of each - not the additional benefits relative to the standard building).

VANYAR: Valarin Shrine (replaces Colloseum; +2:culture:, +2:) per 20% culture rate).

NOLDOR: Jewelsmithy (replaces Forge; +35%:hammers:, +2:gold:, +1:yuck:, allows 1 Engineer, +1:) from gems, gold, silver).

TELERI: Calmindon (replaces Lighthouse; +1:), +1 :culture:, +1 :food: on water tiles).

SINDAR: Forest Girdle (replaces Walls; +2:), +60% defense).

FALATHRIM: Havens (replaces Harbor; navigation1 for new naval units, +60% trade route yield, +1:health: from Clam, Crab, Fish).

NANDOR: Duin-Ephel (replaces Levee, +2:health:, +10% defense, +1:hammers: on river tiles).

NUMENOREAN: Trade Citadel (replaces Grocer; +1:food:, +35% commerce, allows 2 Merchants; +1:health: from banana, spices, sugar, wine).

ARNOR: Viewing Tower (replaces Observatory; +35%:science:, +2:espionage: allows 1 Scientist).

GONDOR: Fortress (replaces Castle; -15% war weariness, +2:culture:, +60% defense).

NORTHMAN: Stockade (replaces Walls; +2 XPs for new archery units, +60% defense).

ROHIRRIM: Armoury (replaces Barracks; +1:culture:, +4 XPs for new land units).

DUNLAND: Monolith (replaces Monument; +1:culture:, +10% commerce, -15% war weariness).

HARADRIM: Bazaar (replaces Market; +35% commerce; +1:food:, allows 2 Merchants; +1:) from fur, ivory, silk, whale).

EASTERLING: Tribal Marquee (replaces Courthouse; +1 XP for new land units, +2:espionage:, -60% maintenance).

LONGBEARD DWARF: Gold Furnace (replaces Forge; +35%:hammers:, +2:gold:, +10% commerce, +2:yuck:, allows 1 Engineer, +1:) from gems, gold, silver).

FIREBEARD DWARF: Vault (replaces Bank; +60% commerce, allows 1 Merchant).

THE SHADOW: Torture Chamber (replaces Theatre; +3:culture, +1:), -15% war weariness).

ANGMAR: Barrow (replaces Monument; +2:culture:, +1:espionage:).

The thing about those UBs (which are good ideas) is that they take into account and replace Vanilla Buildings... we are going to compleltly change the buildings.

(though some will still be there, i doubt we'll have grocers and observatories)

The thing about those UBs (which are good ideas) is that they take into account and replace Vanilla Buildings... we are going to compleltly change the buildings.

I assumed you would simply rename and the standard Vanilla/BTS buildings, and give them new graphics... :blush: Which ones are you doing away with? All the industrial & modern ones?

I should have said "replaces [standard building] OR EQUIVALENT;..." in my list.

though some will still be there, i doubt we'll have grocers and observatories

Observatories were not unknown in Tolkien's world - elves and Numenoreans, in particular, took great interest in the stars.

If no grocers, perhaps the Trade Citadel UB could instead replace Market; +25% commerce, +1:gold:, +1:espionage:, allows 2 Merchants; +1 from fur, ivory, silk, whale.

What about levees, will you have those (or anything equivalent?)

maybe... is there any reference to them in the lore?

Not to levees themselves, but the hobbits did use watermills.

Hmm...yeah. But that was for the purpose of grindin grain. That is in the lore.

here is an idea: for units (barbarian of course) you could have dragons in the anciant times. like animals in the original civ4
and i do remember there was a water mill, but i forget exactly where, i do remember it was there though.