Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword is the second expansion pack for Civilization IV - the 2005 PC Game of the Year and a major commercial success, selling over 1.5 million units worldwide since its October 2005 release. The expansion will focus on the late-game time periods after the invention of gunpowder and will deliver 12 challenging and decidedly different scenarios created by the development team at Firaxis Games, as well as members of the Civilization Fan Community. Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword will also include ten new civilizations, 16 new leaders, five new wonders, and a variety of new units that will offer even more fun and exciting ways for players to expand their civilization’s power as they strive for world domination.

First concept art pictures and more details can be found here: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/civilizationivbeyondthesword/

EDIT:
2K's Beyond the Sword page: http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/ (full press release)
BTS Gallery: http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=24

Looking forward to this one, think you'll buy it too?

Corporation idea could be interesting - sounds like a religion system in which you can trade excess resources for other benefits. Or maybe that's completely inaccurate.

I think so... I just don't like the idea of an expansion every 6 months or so... thought CivIV had enough to overcome this (mod possibilities etc).. for us in Brazil $30 bucks converted to reais turns out to be almost a FULL GAME, though I like these features more than those of Warlords..

just updating.. $30 omg.. and Cristo Redentor BIG LOL

cool, I most definately will :clap: :clap:

The expansion will focus on the late-game time periods after the invention of gunpowder

THIS is great, I can`t wait! :D

sounds like this one is bundled with more then what came with warlords.

Is this genuine or an early april joke? Sounds interesting, but one of the screenshots looks a little odd (the blurry one with the woman and the guy with a gun).

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword is the second expansion pack for Civilization IV - the 2005 PC Game of the Year and a major commercial success, selling over 1.5 million units worldwide since its October 2005 release. The expansion will focus on the late-game time periods after the invention of gunpowder and will deliver 12 challenging and decidedly different scenarios created by the development team at Firaxis Games, as well as members of the Civilization Fan Community. Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword will also include ten new civilizations, 16 new leaders, five new wonders, and a variety of new units that will offer even more fun and exciting ways for players to expand their civilization’s power as they strive for world domination.

First concept art pictures and more details can be found here: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/civilizationivbeyondthesword/

Looking forward to this one, think you'll buy it too?

Is this genuine or an early april joke? Sounds interesting, but one of the screenshots looks a little odd (the blurry one with the woman and the guy with a gun).

If it's genuine, it sounds good. Not revolutionnary, but the new options (more spying!) are appealing.

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/

Abe Lincoln! w00t!

i just bought warlords, but this looks really great. i'm looking forward to "Expanded UN" and "Expanded Space Race". What do you think they will be like? I hope that disaster can be turned off, anyway. I won't like if random things ruin my civ

I think so... I just don't like the idea of an expansion every 6 months or so... thought CivIV had enough to overcome this (mod possibilities etc).. for us in Brazil $30 bucks converted to reais turns out to be almost a FULL GAME, though I like these features more than those of Warlords..

just updating.. $30 omg.. and Cristo Redentor BIG LOL

It's due for release in July so that would be a year, not 6 months, after Warlords was released (although I can't speak for the Brazilian distributors of both expansion packs).

Is this genuine or an early april joke? Sounds interesting, but one of the screenshots looks a little odd (the blurry one with the woman and the guy with a gun).

If it is joke, Firaxis and 2K are cold-hearted towards their fans! This looks great! I especially like the addition of corporations, the Dutch, and the return of the Mausoleum of Maussollos.

I agree that screenshot is a little odd as well, though. Are they supposed to be spies?

Great!

Can't wait. Would really enjoy some good current day scenarios with some nice Firaxis extra's!

Oooh! Sounds shiny! Abe's looking good too! I wonder what the other 7 civs are... we have
-Portugal
-Netherlands
-Babylon
Maybe some Native Americans, based on the art work and the presence of some colonial civs? Ah yes...yet more opportunities for historical irony!:lol:

Oh no.. and i thought i might have some spare time this summer. :cool:

Oh no.. and i thought i might have some spare time this summer. :cool:

I planned holydays for the first 2 weeks of july, I'm starting to wonder if my wife would mind if I took a computer with us :lol:

Maybe the 'improved AI' explains the disappearance of Blake and Istus

If this is true, then its terribly disappointing. I was really hoping for some modding tools, an events editor and such as that.

nevermind!

Meh, I was hoping it was Beyond the STARS.

Oh well. Excited for the modern age!

I like the bringing back and expansion of random events. Natural disasters woo!

If it is joke, Firaxis and 2K are cold-hearted towards their fans! This looks great! I especially like the addition of corporations, the Dutch, and the return of the Mausoleum of Maussollos.
No, it's no April Fool's joke. :p

I agree that screenshot is a little odd as well, though. Are they supposed to be spies?
They're concept artwork, not in-game screenshots.

This looks completely awesome. As much as I like Warlords, it really didn't add much beyond warmongering options. This looks like we'll be getting all the other strategy options covered.

I'm afraid it will not be revolutionary exp pack. After poor warlords scenarios I am not expecting much. Of course more techs, more civs, more units, and more MORE :p but it seems to be only way to take the money out of our wallets...

I wonder what's your feelings...

merged into the main BTS thread

:D
I'm really looking forward to this one.

Oooh! Sounds shiny! Abe's looking good too! I wonder what the other 7 civs are... we have
-Portugal
-Netherlands
-Babylon
Maybe some Native Americans, based on the art work and the presence of some colonial civs? Ah yes...yet more opportunities for historical irony!:lol:

maybe some alien races too, since 2k website shows space picture

maybe some alien races too, since 2k website shows space picture
That would be fun! Screw the martians invading crap, we're invading MARS dammit, and we're slaughtering them all! Monty carries his rage into outer-space:ar15: :evil: (martian)

lol wikipedia already has an article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_IV:_Beyond_the_Sword

What's with the epic game thing? Do they really plan new techs and buildings that are only available in Epic Mode? This would sort of enable the Epic Mode to be playable in a more sensible way (without increades research and production costs for everything).

Corporation idea could be interesting - sounds like a religion system in which you can trade excess resources for other benefits. Or maybe that's completely inaccurate.

Isn't that what AI players are for? I love getting 28 gold per turn for one of my 3 coppers after Statue of Liberty is already built. Sure, go for the internet, pal. We'll see if you live that long. ;) All joking aside, I read it the same way that you do... it'll be interesting to see how they implement it. I'm having visions of British tea companies in India now, haha.

but one of the screenshots looks a little odd (the blurry one with the woman and the guy with a gun).

Ever heard of a Son of a gun?

It goes like this: a guy shot a guy through the balls, the bullet then entered a woman, and then...

I wonder what will be the effect for Maoi Statues (Easter Island). Do they work like they did on real world and drain all the resources, devastate forests etc. near the area they are build ? I think there was some thread where this was mentioned here on CFC, but i do not remember for sure.

For those are not familiar with subject, building of Maoi Statues was huge drain for economy (and ecosystem) of the island. It was not only reason, though.

Ever heard of a Son of a gun?

It goes like this: a guy shot a guy through the balls, the bullet then entered a woman, and then...

Mythbusters busted this :D

Only two questions:

Will it include those things that come with Warlords?

If not: Will you be able to use both expansions simultanously?

What's with the epic game thing? Do they really plan new techs and buildings that are only available in Epic Mode? This would sort of enable the Epic Mode to be playable in a more sensible way (without increades research and production costs for everything).
"Epic game" = the standard game.. not scenarios

What's with the epic game thing? Do they really plan new techs and buildings that are only available in Epic Mode? This would sort of enable the Epic Mode to be playable in a more sensible way (without increades research and production costs for everything).

I believe they are referring to non-scenario play, rather than game speed. Any time you start a new game, thats not one of the scenarios, its called the epic game. Theres also a game speed thats called epic

Sitting Bull! Woot!

:lol: And once again the dutch will RULE the world:lol:

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/images/SittingBull.jpg

Sitting Bull : Holding a turd????

A drinking horn, methinks

This sounds great so far. The only thing that I would say is a tad dissapointing is that there are going to be another 12 scenarios. Lets just hope they are better then the poor Warlords efforts.

i hate expansions

Yay. Beyond the Sword. I have a feeling builders will be pleased.

For those who don't know the new wonders.
http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/seasia/rangoon/c41.jpg
This is the Golden Stupa at the Shwedagon Paya in Rangoon , Burma.
http://k-chan.digital-arts.ca/navigation/cr-images.jpg
The Cristo Redentor in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Moai_Rano_raraku.jpg/180px-Moai_Rano_raraku.jpg
And the Moai Statues on Rapa Nui (Easter Island), Chile

Black freaking dot....


Looking forward to this one...

Ah, Christ the Reedemer in Spanish.

Ah, Christ the Reedemer in Spanish.
Actually in Portuguese (Brazil is Portuguese Speaking) but in Spanish it's the same.

No, it's no April Fool's joke. :p


They're concept artwork, not in-game screenshots.

Is the "Afterworld" concept art about a post-apocalyptic scenario?

Very very nice. New concepts are always great. Can't wait for this expansion, having so much fun with this game right now.

Yay. Beyond the Sword. I have a feeling builders will be pleased.

i'm reading it both ways. beyond as in, ways to win "other than by" but also as in "longer term, more weapons than just axe/swords".

even in one short paragraph they point to both gamestyles:

Enhanced AI: The AI has received many enhancements making it tougher to beat on the higher difficulty levels. The ways in which the AI will attempt to achieve victory have also been expanded.

first sentence, yay for warmongers! second sentence, yay for builders! hopefully they add stuff for both types.

all the way through i read stuff that tends one way, and other stuff that tends the other way. i hope both will be pleased.

the part that makes me :confused: is that the press release with the financial reports early this month said that the Civ game release is planned in "2008 fiscal year (which begins Nov. 1 2007)". July is this fiscal year. that's a pretty major change in plans from just 4 weeks ago. i hope they test it enough: all new releases will have bugs and need patches, but rushed ones tend to need far more.

Some of the buildings in there had a SAM launcher, a rocket launch pad, and the one I thought was most intriguing, a domed city -- domed for what purpose? Underwater or no atmosphere at all?

I do hope they correct one oversight from Warlords (but I doubt it) -- I hope they make sure one can have all of the competing civs on the same map at the same time straight out of the box.

Neat.

The game is getting a bit wonder-heavy, however.

The AI reference probably refers to the current BetterAI: as of Feb/12 (and earlier) the BetterAI release has AIs that go for space race, cultural, domination, elimination and time victories (and maybe diplomatic, but I haven't seen that one attempted).

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/images/SittingBull.jpg

Sitting Bull : Holding a turd????

I think it is actually the top of his walking stick. The feathers below his hand seem to indicate this...

will we be able to use this WITH warlords features?

I will absolutely buy this one - it looks like it totally rocks.
I was looking at the artwork too and it looks like they're going to have underwater cities in it!!!! this should be very interesting.
I like the idea of modern starts too as my games are either won or lost well before the end of the game and so I never get to try out things like nukes and stealth bombers - now I will be able to use them to obliterate my opponents HAHAHAAA!
The random events is so cool too (Gal Civ 2 did this and I found myself wishing that Firaxis would do it for Civ too and now it looks like they have!)
Having the Vatican as an early UN is a great idea too IMO (hopefully they will beef up the environmentalism civic too).
I'm curious as to what the new wonders do, particularly the Moai statues (I remember seeing a documentary that said the Aztec and Egyptian Pyramids and the Maoi statues were aligned with star constellations so maybe it centres the map like stone henge?)

Some of the buildings in there had a SAM launcher, a rocket launch pad, and the one I thought was most intriguing, a domed city -- domed for what purpose? Underwater or no atmosphere at all?

I do hope they correct one oversight from Warlords (but I doubt it) -- I hope they make sure one can have all of the competing civs on the same map at the same time straight out of the box.

wow, I want your computer! ;)

This is what I'm lookign forward to the most

Events: New random events such as natural disasters, pleas for help, or demands from their citizens will challenge players to overcome obstacles in order for their civilizations to prosper.

This sounds great! Sounds like its on par with conquests of civ3.

I think of Warlords is lacking in content just like play the world was for civ3.

Not suprising, i hope its going to be good! :D

wow, I want your computer! ;)

:lol:

Actually, a friend of mine's already getting it in the next 12 months. My current machine can pull 24 civs on the largest maps with some strain in the mid-late game. I anticipate it wouldn't do too well with 34 under the same configuration.

Planning on buying a new machine late this year or early next, though I may still stick with XP instead of Vista

i know it sounds odd but its coming to close warlords

This looks really good.

Enhanced AI: The AI has received many enhancements, making it tougher to beat on the higher difficulty levels. The ways in which the AI will attempt to achieve victory have also been expanded.


So we will see Caesar going for Domination while Hatty tries a Cultural Victory ?
:)

Ohhhh Yeah This Expansion Looks So Very F****** Good!!!!

I Almost Peed Myself From Exitement When I Saw It!!!

Okay, several initial observations:

Lincoln as a 3rd American leader -- great! I hope they gave him unique diplomatic music, too. If not, I will use my "Battle Hymn of the Republic" I made for Lincoln in my Warlords mod. In fact, I'm going to update my mod to use this new picture.

Indian Chief --> Native American civ, perhaps the Sioux. Very nice.

12 new scenarios: there'd better be a WW2 in one of these, preferably a global one! Otherwise, a lot of people are going to get mad, myself included.

Total of 10 new civs, including Babylon, Portugal, and the Dutch. Excellent, but I hope there is a corresponding increase in the max number of playable civs at any given time.

Corporations? I don't know if I like this or not... I need to see more information, though it does give me pause. Sounds interesting, though.

Espionage available much earlier -- great, like Civ 2's diplomats. This'll make things much more interesting.

U.N. available earlier?? I don't like this -- it sounds like it will make those who hate the U.N.-forced civics even madder. Plus, I don't see how you could move it back too far without making the game even more unrealistic!

Expanded space victory: I hope this means we've gone back to a more Civ-2 style of planning / building different numbers of spaceship parts which will affect how fast you get to Alpha Centauri.

Random events: very nice, something I've longed to see for quite a while.

Better AI: desperately needed. I'm glad they listened to us on this.

More leaders and wonders: always nice and adds to the game.

One beef: I don't see civ-specific great people implemented! ;) Of course, that still gives me a monopoly (not to mention a reason to keep making things)...

so is this warlords compatible

Gaius - My impression from the name of the early "UN" leads me to think this would be geared more towards the way the medieval Vatican functioned. Calling for crusades instead of banning nukes. Could be wrong, though.

If this is the case, then I'm all for it! Crusades would be FANTASTIC!

"God wills it!"

I think so... I just don't like the idea of an expansion every 6 months or so... thought CivIV had enough to overcome this (mod possibilities etc).. for us in Brazil $30 bucks converted to reais turns out to be almost a FULL GAME, though I like these features more than those of Warlords..

just updating.. $30 omg.. and Cristo Redentor BIG LOL


I concur, my dea patriot. But... Cristo Redentor? OH GOD, LET US HAVE A BRAZILIAN CIVILIZATION!!!!! YES YES YES YES YES YES!! WE OWN A GOOD CHUNK OF EARTH, SO IF THOSE MAIA GUYS CAN BE ON THE GAME, WE CAN BE ON IT TOO!!!

There is another site at Firaxis proper here: http://www.firaxis.com/games/game_detail.php?gameid=16

Here's an excerpt:

Apostolic Palace: The United Nations will become available earlier in the game providing a way for players to win a diplomatic victory earlier. New resolutions will also be added which will expand the available diplomatic options.

Corporations: A new gameplay feature similar to religion that allows players to found companies and spread them throughout the world. Each corporation provides benefits in exchange for certain resources.


The way this is phrased, 'Apostolic Palace', has strong connotations of the Vatican. Don't know how it might be implemented though.

I have to say that after reading more about the corporations, I am not at all enthusiastic about them. It sounds like just another redundant religion system, though without the penalties. I don't want to be the first whiner, though. :)

Looking at some of the screenshots, I noticed several buildings that look like space-launch facilities and a domed colony, one like you might see on Mars. So I'm guessing this new space race goes way beyond the simple stuff in Civ 2 I was talking about.

Spies will finally be useful again! I miss the glory days of Civ2 spies and Alpha Centauri probe teams. This expanded post-gunpowder game has struck me as necessary for a while too, it always went too fast for my tastes. You know something? If it weren't for this:

Events: New random events such as natural disasters, pleas for help, or demands from their citizens will challenge players to overcome obstacles in order for their civilizations to prosper.

This would be a great expansion. As is, though, no one with a triple digit IQ is going to bother even pirating it, let alone buy it. What a pity.

Apostolic Palace does mean Vatican indeed which makes me wonder a bit on the overall religion system though.

In any case I'm disapointed by the numbers of new leaders which is only 6. Let's enumerate the civs that desperately deserve a second leader:

Greece, Persia, Arabia, Japan, Spain. In addition to that, the Romans (and Chinese) deserve a third leader too. Which already makes 6 (7), but we do know Abe Lincoln gets in, so which one (two) of the above do we kick out? It's sad. And on the other hand they include Sitting Bull:rolleyes: . I won't say that they are not fun to play with, but I'd rather have three more leaders than one such civ like the Sioux or the Zulu... That's just my opinion, remember...

Now, the other civs:

Babylon, Netherlands, Dutch, Sioux (Americanindians) we do already know of . The last three suggests a "Colonization scenario", so they might've included additionally the Maya or/and the Iroquois. Otherwise it's quite unclear, but I do really hope for Poland, the Khmer and a Ancient civilization.

All the rest I do not want to comment on, we do not know enough for that... ;)

mick

Naw, mitsho, check again. There are 16 new leaders.

IRT Gaius: Given that they've got all the code at their fingertips, it's possible that Firaxis put together a new UN model with a religious bent. Hopefully it's not the same UN with a different set of voting options. In addition, it doesn't seem plausible that a religious UN would oversee the policies of nations with rival religions, so...

As for the corporations: What I liked most about the early game was how one's religion affected foreign policy. Once the free religion civic triggered, the later game intrigue died down quite a bite. Again, as with the religious UN, why think it'll be a simple port straight over with different jargon associated with it? It shouldn't effect diplomatic stuff the way religion does...

As is, though, no one with a triple digit IQ is going to bother even pirating it, let alone buy it. What a pity.Leaving aside the fact that you are insulting the people who already posted saying they would like this feature, I really doubt it'll be hard to find a "No events" mod should you want the other features.

Gaius - My impression from the name of the early "UN" leads me to think this would be geared more towards the way the medieval Vatican functioned. Calling for crusades instead of banning nukes. Could be wrong, though.

It could be like the planetary concil from Alpha Centauri. Maybe even expanded. And about the cruzades: Could be interesting if the cruzade's declarer could be the builder of the Vatican, and then he could call everyone of his religion to fight a cruzade against X enemy (or religion).

Naw, mitsho, check again. There are 16 new leaders.

I'm sorry to dissilliusionate you, but there are 16 new leaders including the ones from the new civilizations which means 16-10 = 6 new leaders for the old civs.

mfG mick ;)

I'm sorry to dissilliusionate you, but there are 16 new leaders including the ones from the new civilizations which means 16-10 = 6 new leaders for the old civs.

mfG mick ;)

I can do simple maths as easy as you. Sixteen new leaders -- a new civ isn't going to run without one. A leader is still a leader. We still get 16 new leaders that weren't in the game before.

The three new leaders that are specifically mentioned are Hammurabi, Abraham Lincoln, and Sitting Bull.

What do you suppose was the deal with that domed city in the concept art? Exactly how far beyond the invention of gunpowder is this game going?

Perhaps I will start playing again once this comes to fruition.

This xpack seems definitely a must buy.Firaxis seems to have heard all the advise given by the fans.I am just curious to see if among the new units how much will be ships and if there will be naval promotions, if there will be both we definitely have THE GAME.
The crusade idea associated with Apostolic building would be really fun IMHO and could add some new flavour to religion system.

Here's the actual picture:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6913/art5xs2.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=art5xs2.jpg)

To me, that looks like a planetary colony, although someone else said it might be an underwater city.

Either way, how far ahead are we going? Put it this way: Where we're going, we don't need...roads.

definately be buying. Hopefully they beef up the naval units.

New units I wanted to see: paratrooper, nuclear submarine, cruise missiles, and AEGIS cruisers. I want aegis cruisers to be the counter to cruise missiles and aircraft. I want to see battleships go obsolete. Not hang around till 2050.

I can't wait.

I think we finally have a real expansion to the game here. :)

You know something? If it weren't for this:

(random events)

This would be a great expansion. As is, though, no one with a triple digit IQ is going to bother even pirating it, let alone buy it. What a pity.

First off, there is already a random event in the game and it sucks. Its called global warming. Second random events has been something that this community has been begging for for years.

Anyone with a triple digit IQ will be able to assess the random situations that will arise in the game, and adjust their gameplay accordingly. Actually, the only people that would be upset of having to use strategy in times of these events are people with 2 digit IQs.
It is like that old saying about ants, that if you move a pebble 2 inches to the left, they get lost. Same thing about strategy. If anything happens that isn't predictable, these people don't know how to adjust. Thus they aren't playing a strategy game, where strategies must always adjust to the situation. Rather, they are playing a formula game. And as soon as anything goes wrong in their formula, they are lost.

EDIT:
U.N. available earlier?? I don't like this -- it sounds like it will make those who hate the U.N.-forced civics even madder. Plus, I don't see how you could move it back too far without making the game even more unrealistic!

Oh yeah, Gaius, there are going to be new options in the UN. Possibly the availability to vote for global Theocracy. I can hope anyways based off this message in the link.
Apostolic Palace: The United Nations will become available earlier in the game, providing a way for players to win a diplomatic victory earlier. New resolutions will also be added which will expand the available diplomatic options.

I'm with you on this, King Flevance. It seems to me that we can find a happy balance between randomness and pure strategy, such that there are interesting additions but not game-breaking "I hate this *#%@" stuff. I'm going to give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt, considering how strongly they wanted to get rid of "un-fun" elements.

And as Arthur P. Dietrich said, "I got an IQ that'll knock your socks off." :D

I wonder if corporations will be somehow tied to civics. How will State Property effect corporations? Will corporations create friction between free market nations and communist/state property nations? I hope so. When free religion makes having a state religion somewhat obsolete, I think that conflicting political idealogies(civics) should take the place of religious conflict. -as it did historically.

I hope they got rid of the automatically enforced U.N. decisions, even if all civics are now available for vote. You should be able to defy the U.N., as many others have already pointed out.

As for coroporations. Perhaps state property will be to corporations what free religion is to religion. That would be my best guess.

As for random events. I'm sure there will be a check mark in the custom game to turn them off. So you will have to play a custom game to play without them.

I like them. As long as they aren't too overpowering. The events in SMAC weren't bad. Some were positive, some were negative (such as farms recieving -1 food).

Even though in real life there are some massive natural disasters that wipe out entire cities, I don't wish for that. That would suck. But look at Katrina. It didn't wipe out New Orleans. The city is still there. It just took an economic hit. this could be represented by tiles not collecting commerce income for a certain amount of turns. Though in ancient times, there were disasters that wiped out entire cities. Such as Pompei. I don't want to see anything that severe in civ4.

so no word on warlords?

what word are you looking for? I'm sure it will work exactly how civ3's second expansion worked. can't remember exactly how that worked though. :)

What do you suppose was the deal with that domed city in the concept art? Exactly how far beyond the invention of gunpowder is this game going?

Not very far I think.
I guess the domed city is some kind of national wonder/project.
A simulated moon/mars/whatever colony required for the new space race.

This would be a great expansion. As is, though, no one with a triple digit IQ is going to bother even pirating it, let alone buy it. What a pity.

Anyone with a triple digit IQ would either accept it as part of the game or have an inkling that there's probably an option to turn them OFF. :mischief: So I don't really see how this feature is even remotely capable of actually ruining the game for you.

I have been waiting for ever for this. THIS LOOKS SOOOOO COOL

As for coroporations. Perhaps state property will be to corporations what free religion is to religion. That would be my best guess.

As for random events. I'm sure there will be a check mark in the custom game to turn them off. So you will have to play a custom game to play without them.

I like them. As long as they aren't too overpowering. The events in SMAC weren't bad. Some were positive, some were negative (such as farms recieving -1 food).

Even though in real life there are some massive natural disasters that wipe out entire cities, I don't wish for that. That would suck. But look at Katrina. It didn't wipe out New Orleans. The city is still there. It just took an economic hit. this could be represented by tiles not collecting commerce income for a certain amount of turns. Though in ancient times, there were disasters that wiped out entire cities. Such as Pompei. I don't want to see anything that severe in civ4.

City wiping could be interesting. Maybe you could evacuate popullation in the form of a unit if you found a way to discover where and WHEN disaster will happen before they begin. Say, volcanoes, big ones, and maybe even Meteors if we want to be overkill about it.

Some of the buildings in there had a SAM launcher, a rocket launch pad, and the one I thought was most intriguing, a domed city -- domed for what purpose? Underwater or no atmosphere at all?

Ooooh, underwater cities! That'd be cool. Though I'd guess, like someone else said, that it's most likely a space wonder of some kind. But still, the ability to expand your civ into, say, shallow waters would be interesting! :crazyeye:

In any case, I'm looking forward to this expansion. There will probably be options to turn off things that some players might not like, like the natural events. And I'm curious to see what they're about anyway! I never played the other Civ games, so I don't know what they had...storms? Earthquakes? Volcanoes? Tsunamis? Sandstorms if you're near a desert? Flooding in a flood valley?

what word are you looking for? I'm sure it will work exactly how civ3's second expansion worked. can't remember exactly how that worked though. :)

never played civ 3. I am just hoping that I can use warlords with these new features.

The three new leaders that are specifically mentioned are Hammurabi, Abraham Lincoln, and Sitting Bull.

Abraham Lincoln? My wish has come true. Il enjoy destroying america and laughing at his ugly mug in diplomacy! :lol:

The only other "events" the previous civ games had were global warming, the plague (in C3C), and that's about it (also civil wars in Civ 2, but these were player-triggered). This will be a major shift.

I for one am especially looking forward to the new space race. I still remember the very first civ game I ever played. It was Civ 2, and I had won the space race, and the theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey played... it was a welcome surprise.

mrt144
the 2nd expansion (conquests) of civ3 included the complete contence of the 1st expansion (play the world). Probably will be the same way now too.

Does this mean that the new Warlords leaders / civs are included in the count for Beyond the Sword?? :mad: :eek: :confused:

(Probably not, since it says 5 new wonders, and they are all truly new.)

The corporation ideas sound great. I can't wait to rule the world's economy!

Warlords version stated that it featured 10 new civ leaders as this 2nd X-pack will feature 16 new leaders so if I know my math correctly, the original version has 26.

26 + 10 + 16 = 52 total civ leaders possibly in Civ IV: BtS, if it includes features from Warlords.

Since there were total of 55 possible trait combinations, that leaves with 3 unused trait combo possibly FORBIDDEN from using in any kind of civ scenarios and epic games.

We assume that we'll never see:
Philosophical, Industrious
Aggressive, Charismatic
?, ? (Anyone want to guess what the 3rd trait combo will still be forbidden in the 2nd X-pack?)

Creative, Philosophical perhaps? (Removed from Frederick in Vanilla -> Warlords transition.) Maybe because it is too easy for culture victories, and the AI will now pursue them?

The only other "events" the previous civ games had were global warming, the plague (in C3C), and that's about it (also civil wars in Civ 2, but these were player-triggered). This will be a major shift.

SMAC (alpha centauri) had quite a few random events. True, it's not a civ game. But the gameplay is very similar to civ2. So I've always considered it a civ-like game.

I can't remember all the events in SMAC though. maybe someone else knows them.

I think they could bring Civil Wars back. I loved them, but, say... they should make diferent conditions for Civil War, like high unhappiness, using a civic that's against individual freedom while one of your neighoobors run democracy and that kind of stuff. Maybe people are just too unhappy and revolt. You could give money to unrest if it happened against a enemy or rival. Revolts could TAKE some of your cities, or maybe they could settle on a camp near your territory with LOTS of troops. Religion revolts could be nice (say, being a majorly christian state with some Judaic Minority). I loved Civil War, because you could do Divide and Conquer against a enemy.

Very glad to see their going to focus on the late-game, also to see that my former arch-nemesis of Babylon is back :evil:

Isn't it a total of 34 civs in the game now once this expansion pack is out? A quick look at past Civilization games reveals up to this expansion there have been 34 seperate civs you could play as over the years. I'd be surprised if we got any genuinely new peoples to try out, since those two theorums add up nicely as to who the new playable civs'll be.

Will one of the corporations you get to found be the Civilization franchise? :lol:

Philosophical, Industrious
Aggressive, Charismatic
?, ? (Anyone want to guess what the 3rd trait combo will still be forbidden in the 2nd X-pack?)

Organised, Financial
Washington had this como in vanilla, and it was cleary overpowered. He was teching like crazy, much worse than Wang and Mansa together.

I want it now!

So there was no mention of new traits.

The 3rd forbidden trait combo will probably be Philosophical/Creative. Half priced unis and libraries are probably too powerful maybe.
Or Perhaps Financial/Organised a la Vanilla Washington.

That domed city could be a moon base, or Doctor Evil's moon lair.

"MacDonalds has spread to Houston". +1 free upsize per Happy meal.
Corporations sound interesting, I wonder what tech makes them available...

I think they could bring Civil Wars back. I loved them, but, say... they should make diferent conditions for Civil War, like high unhappiness, using a civic that's against individual freedom while one of your neighoobors run democracy and that kind of stuff. Maybe people are just too unhappy and revolt. You could give money to unrest if it happened against a enemy or rival. Revolts could TAKE some of your cities, or maybe they could settle on a camp near your territory with LOTS of troops. Religion revolts could be nice (say, being a majorly christian state with some Judaic Minority). I loved Civil War, because you could do Divide and Conquer against a enemy.

Civil Wars, huh? They just need to incorporate jdog's Revolution mod and they're set. If the idea that Blake and Iustus were brought onboard to enhance the AI, hopefully it's not out of the realm of possibility that Revolution could become a standard feature? Please?

EDIT: dumb thinking faster than I type

The only other "events" the previous civ games had were global warming, the plague (in C3C), and that's about it (also civil wars in Civ 2, but these were player-triggered). This will be a major shift.
Well, the nuclear meltdowns could be considered events, but I don't remember if I've ever actually seen one.

I want it now!

So there was no mention of new traits.

The 3rd forbidden trait combo will probably be Philosophical/Creative. Half priced unis and libraries are probably too powerful maybe.
Or Perhaps Financial/Organised a la Vanilla Washington.

That domed city could be a moon base, or Doctor Evil's moon lair.

"MacDonalds has spread to Houston". +1 free upsize per Happy meal.
Corporations sound interesting, I wonder what tech makes them available...

I'm thinking the domed city is a regular city with a city improvement that gives some kind of protection/health bonus. And it's maybe part of a scenario only.

Does anyone think the possibility of a new trait ?

Or domed cities could possibly mean underwater regions.

Well, the nuclear meltdowns could be considered events, but I don't remember if I've ever actually seen one.

Ah, very true. However, these are not truly random (they can be avoided simply by not building nuke plants), so I was referring more to events that are totally beyond your control. BTW, hopefully the meltdown risk is now gone with fusion power.

Does anyone think the possibility of a new trait ?

I'm going to have to develop a new trait.
Patient

AM sooo excited for the new XP... I was just about to uninstall!

Very excited about corporations and especially domed cities.. Hopefully they will be underwater cities but I guess they probably will be used for one of the new scenerios (which have never been seen in a civ game before) Possibly for the afterdawn scenerio that they released artwork for. I see that some user contributed mods will also be included... am guessing fall from heaven, and sevos or others. Lincoln is there purely becuase one of the scenerios will be a civil war one...

Still my main hope is this will finally allow us to complete the sMAC mod.

Seems that they are finally bringing Civ features to the same level as what they had under smac. Warlords added Vassal states from smac and this will hopefully add the Planetary Council type features, Random events were also in Smac before (volcanos, earthquakes) and of course accellerated start up is now being added...

The only things missing now are :
1. Sea Cities (and sea improvements)
2. Story Interludes... Certain events trigger the storylien to proceed.
3. Sub Missions: When one of your units is destroyed.. you are meant to go and destroy a targeted city. They game even changes the name of the city once you have achieved and gives a congrat message. --REALLY COOL!
3. Throne Room (achievements screen) and Landmark events... (eg first city, first battle, first tech breaktrhough, first naval unit, first air unit).
4. A cool video when you kill or capture another civ leader, Ability to rescue captured leaders and allow them to refound their civilization.
5. Landmarks- and advantages for your civ if you hold a part of the planet- (eg Manifold Nexus)

As you can see despite the advances they have made graphically, SMAC was recognised as being a classic purely because it had so many of these innovative and as yet unsurpassed features which were available in the vanilla version of the game....

This new XP looks like it will be a real must buy... Hopefully adds a lot more depth and FUN to already fun game....One more tUrn!!!!

I don't think the domed city is just for a scenario. In the CFC gallery, it is referred to as "modern building set", which to me indicates standard game use.

Ahh the throne room. Brings back memories

As I pointed out in another post, the throne room is already partially implemented in Civ 4. So it's probably in the expansion. :)

The only other "events" the previous civ games had were global warming, the plague (in C3C), and that's about it (also civil wars in Civ 2, but these were player-triggered). This will be a major shift.

Civ1 had events. Earthquakes, floods, etc.

Civ1 had events. Earthquakes, floods, etc.

Yeah in many ways, the "new" stuff just isn't that new. My favorite game of all time, Master of Magic, had it all. Random events, civ-style buildings and cities and governors, AND tactical combat with magic to boot, with 2 planes with different mechanics for movement and races. Even the whole barbs and barb city thing that came later in the civ series is reminiscent of the neutral cities in MoM, except the neutral cities are there from the beginning.

Nevertheless, nobody has made a true sequel to MoM so civ is the closest thing to it, and anything that takes civ closer to MoM is good in my book. I just wish they had tactical combat at least. :)

awesome, but i wonder what is the price range for this new expansion

The new expansion sounds very promising.

I suspect the expansion will be similar to C3C in that it will include the features from the expansion before it (in this case, Warlords).

Good news that they are trying to balance things out so that there isn't so much emphasis on constant warfare. I wonder if they may have tinkered with the scoring system a bit as well.

Will one of the corporations you get to found be the Civilization franchise? :lol:

Actually, that brings up an interesting point...I wonder if specific, individual corporations will be represented? And if so, are they paying for their product placement? :)

"MacDonalds has spread to Houston". +1 free upsize per Happy meal.

If McDonald's is one, I could see added commerce (with the cows resource). But after a while, all cities with the McDonald's corporation would have to have -2 health for obesity. Until you get the new Future Tech and build the "artificial heart" wonder. :p

if you have to ask you cant afford it.

its worth every penny if these things come to fruition

Civ1 had events. Earthquakes, floods, etc.

Sorry about that; I've only been playing from Civ 2 onward. :p

I wonder if events can be triggered by situations brought about by the player. Certain conditions, which the player has created, could increase(or decrease) the chance of different events(both good and bad and in between) being "triggered". -like in Europa Universalis.

This way it wouldn't be completely arbitrary.

for instance if your health levels are low enough then the chance of plague increases.

awesome, but i wonder what is the price range for this new expansion
Expansion packs usually start at $29.99.

Interesting. They already demand peace... demand emancipation.. picky people in this little virtual world.lol
Im trying to think of what else could be demanded of me (as sole ruler of a civ)
Cities with non-state religions may demand free religion? Tree huggers demanding environmentalism (In cities that have experienced global warming).. no-nukes demand in cities that harbor them?
or does it go any deeper.... "federal wild life preserves", National forests, "protected" resources such as whales or game.
There are always those crummy little outpost cities sitting near silver up in the arctic tundra that may demand an expensive building or perhaps a resource that is currently unavailable, or a road to and from a nearby city.

Corporation?
This is looking like "buying into a corporation" with certain resources. Maybe if you have oil and iron you "spend them" and create an automotive industry... any other civ with an extra iron and oil may buy into it as well, making the benefits of the industry larger. This one has my imagination going. Cant wait to see how this works out.

Dang-- where is that firaxis "insider" when you need him? lol
Two games Ive already sey cash aside for is this one and UT2k7.. only two this year

Hmmm, looks awesome. Didnt get warlords but it looks like ill get this one.

One cool but not important feature they could add is more stats, more demographics as well as units killed per war and total war losses etc. If an RTS can do it surely Civ can!

:banana: Yay! :clap:I did a little dance when I saw this. :woohoo: This expansion sounds like it will be a lot better than Warlords. I can't wait! :dance:

Somebody better have mentioned this before, but if they haven't, here is what I have to say:

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/1/Abraham_Lincoln_hires.jpg

F*** YEAH! That's what I like to see! :)

:banana: Yay! :clap:I did a little dance when I saw this. :woohoo: This expansion sounds like it will be a lot better than Warlords. I can't wait! :dance:

lol. I ran around my house naked (yes I do check this site naked. I might be naked right now) of course, for dignity's sake, I put a towel on when the neigbhors came to complain.

just kidding (not the running part)

I sincerely hope underwater cities are not being included in the standard epic game.

I doubt it, but who knows.

I have my doubts with how much can be included in the epic game. I'm not getting my hopes up too much about corporations. I expect it to be similar to religion.

Making underwater cities would severeley change the scope of the epic game. Not to mention they'd come so late, they'd be worthless. The only reason might be to get a resource like oil.

Wow. I was really hoping they'd focus on bumping late game, and I think this will really help us all out-- i just hope they don't focus all on the scenarios, I play civ for the core game, not some corny halfassed minimod...

As for corps, here's my hypothesis:
Perhaps when you research a tech first, EG steel, you'll found "Carnegie steel" or something similar. For each steel resource you control, you might get a bonus like +15% to gold, or +5% to hammers for instance. Who knows though?

Somebody better have mentioned this before, but if they haven't, here is what I have to say:

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/1/Abraham_Lincoln_hires.jpg

F*** YEAH! That's what I like to see! :)

I love this myself. :goodjob:

BTW, what is up with the name though? Beyond the Sword? Sounds like an expansion pack for WoW or Bushido Blade.

EDIT: As to corperations, I am skittish on. I didn't like how they implemented religion in vanilla or Vassals in Warlords. More than likely there is going to be some serious flaws in the corperation idea. But, who knows? Hopefully, soon some new info about the idea will be released.

Interesting. They already demand peace... demand emancipation.. picky people in this little virtual world.lol
Im trying to think of what else could be demanded of me (as sole ruler of a civ)
<Snip>
Corporation?
This is looking like "buying into a corporation" with certain resources. Maybe if you have oil and iron you "spend them" and create an automotive industry... any other civ with an extra iron and oil may buy into it as well, making the benefits of the industry larger. This one has my imagination going. Cant wait to see how this works out.
The demands may be similar to an idea I posted about a while back in another thread here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5166069&postcount=7)
Idea from the link:
I think it would actually be cool if the economic aspect of resources was handled better and things like furs and whales had a window of scarcity or a 'popular period'. Say like in Medeival-Renessaince Cities begin to demand a resource such as whales, or even dye. The RNG could decide what resource. SO, in 1325 AD a pop-up box comes in saying:
"A new style of fashion has swept your empire! Dye is desperatley needed in your empire to accomodate the requests of your citizens."
Or they might need whales, or furs, etc. Certain ones would give certain advantages. The dye one would give each city an additional +1 or 2 CPT. Gems could be for fine jewelry and yield +1 GPT in your cities. Plus, you could have "Let them eat cake option." But I would say this should yield a +1 :mad: face. Thus it would be in your best interest to meet the demands of your people. Plus, it would pay off.
Sounds like it could be pretty close. Especially if mixed in with your idea of what corporation is.

beyond the sword makes sense.

The first expansion dealt primarily with pre gunpowder units and scenarios. I haven't actually played the scenarios yet (though I will when I'm bored with the epic game), but I don't think any are in industrial or modern ages.

They obviously planned ahead what they were going to do with the expansion packs. So this one is going to have gunpowder and later units and scenarios. Which I admit, I'm more into that than the sword stuff.

Beyond the Sword.... Sounds like a dual meaning-- referring to both post medieval era expansions, and (not of) war additions.
Whereas warlords dealt with the needs of warmongers, this new one is more tuned for builders?

EDIT- Oh yea, and King Flev, I like your ideas for random event like you posted. I'll have to go later and skim through your thread. What I like about this site is that the designers presumedly, (or admittedly) read through these as well.

The mentioning of advancing the spy games has got me a little excited as well. I was never happy with C4's spy setup, I always preferred something more in line with C3, just not as powerfull and more something to build on instead of saving money to pay for missions.

Swords to Plowshares

Expansion packs usually start at $29.99.The official 2K site (see first post) confirms that list price will be $29.99

I'm saddened they failed to introduce civil wars :mad: but apart from that it sounds good, extremely good. :clap:

The expansion will focus on the late-game time periods after the invention of gunpowder

Excellent! This is exactly what I wanted in the next expansion! There's so much potential in the post-gunpowder periods that's not being realized by vanilla and warlords.

And I just read about the features. I'm way more excited about this expansion than I was Warlords. This could be great!

how much fun would civil wars be? I'd cry if my nation went into a civil war while I'm being gang banged by the Aztecs and Japanese.

Swords to Plowshares

Who gets the health?

I hope the random events are not a default option. I think getting attacked can be random enough!

I hope the random events are not a default option.

Are you worried that checking the box is going to wear out your mouse buttons? If you don't like the default, you could always edit it once in the config file.

That sounds more like a burlingame idea than san mateo idea david, and im from san mateo.

mrt144
the 2nd expansion (conquests) of civ3 included the complete contence of the 1st expansion (play the world). Probably will be the same way now too.

Since there are going to be unique buildings for the new civilizations ("The pack will provide 10 new civilizations, such as Portugal, Babylonians, and Netherlands and their associated unique units and buildings"), it seems evident that at least that feature of the Warlords expansion is still present in the new expansion.

Interesting. I'm glad they focused on the post-gunpowder eras as my attention tends to grafually slip past that point in a typical game.

I'm a bit unsure about these two though:
Expanded Space Victory: seems like they're making it somewhat more difficult to win space race and I don't know what to think of that. Unless one's been thoroughly beaten during the mid-game space is always a possibility currently and I'd say having a 'fallback' victory type at all times isn't such a bad thing. I'd hate to play through 100 turns only to find out I really couldn't have won from that point onwards no matter what I tried.

Enhanced AI: I sincerely hope this means they've re-balanced the difficulty levels too. Improved AI + original bonuses is already a bit out of whack at times since v2.08 IMO (cheap upgrades, anyone?)
Also, I didn't like some of the alledged AI improvements that had previously been added. E.g., AIs settling on gold mines or gladly accepting numerous useless ocean tiles in the BFC merely to grab that one fish resource are outright criminal by my book.

Wait and see I guess...

If Firaxis was smart they would keep the two expansion packs seperated to maximize profits. I don't think it would be hard to set up a dual installation or patches. I would be pissed to see I wasted money on an expansion that would later be added on to a bigger one the next year.

Yep, if anyone hasn't yet bought Warlords there's probably no point at all in buying it now.

I sincerely hope that BtS will be to CIV what conquest was to Civ3. We need a great expansion to revitalize the game...and the stuff sounds good on paper at least

The Implementation of Corporations... they'd probably spread like Religions but if I Were to Implement them, I'd also Add a Share-market Option so the first Civ to research let's say Steel Founds the Ford Motor Company and if another Civ want to Control that Corporation they Can Buy Shares and If they own more then 50% of that Company they can relocate Company Headquarters into any city in their Civilization, As long as the Corporation (Religion thingee has spread to that City)

That or you can control Corporation Headquarters through war instead of Aggressive Financial Power.

I hope they Add More Techs to lengthen the game just little more, not too long, just long enough for Corporations to spread and have an impact on the game like Religion.

I'd also like to control my Inflation Rate, With an Interest Rate Slider (available with Economics) that can go from anywhere from 0% to 20%, 10% is the middle mark, if you raise it over 10% you gain unhappiness from Citizens as they now have a lower income, under the 10% and you gain Happiness as they have a higher income. the Inflation rate will be affected by spending such as Upgrades to military units, purchases under Universal Sufferage and Deficit spending to research and Culture, but that might be too much micro-management and ruin the game... Ah well... lol just an Idea I'd like to implement, I'm not good with Computer coding so yeah I Couldn't Mod it even If I tried LOL.

Note Inflation will stay constant before the invention of Economics

i bet Poland will finally get there big chance to shine. i also hope Greece get another leader because they really need one

one word (and ten char): YAY!!!....

If Firaxis was smart they would keep the two expansion packs seperated to maximize profits. I don't think it would be hard to set up a dual installation or patches. I would be pissed to see I wasted money on an expansion that would later be added on to a bigger one the next year.

This is how Neverwinter Nights did their two expansions. You couldn't have prestige classes from the 1st expansion in the 2nd expansion unless you own the 1st expansion.

So while I expect unique buildings to be in Xp2, it's possible you won't see the Koreans unless you have Warlords.

I do expect to see great generals however. Units such as trebuchets might not be in there as well.

Well for corporations, they said it was similiar to religion, and that it would be at the expense of resources.. So thats why I was thinking maybe, you "bought" a corporation with extra "required resources" (which would be tied up in the corp) after whatever required tech, then perhaps you spread the market across the globe, similiar to missionaries..... Each host city would more than likely (if this be the case) get a bonus of some sort., and the corporate HQ gets a profit. Of course it could be anything. Have to wait for more info.
Greece needs a new leader, and DEFINITELY Japan needs a new one as well.... absolutely.

Wonder what Lincoln's traits will be.
Organized, of course. I guess Organized and Protective since he was trying so hard to keep the Union from further splitting.

Crossing my fingers for:
Canadian Civilization
Lenin for Russia
Hirohito for Japan
A better Arab leader. Saladin has to be one of the worst leaders in Civ4.
Hitler. C'mon. We have FDR, Stalin, Churchill.. I do believe we're missing someone.

I have just one thing to say about Corporations:

"You have founded McDonalds."

I'd rather see Meiji as the second Japanese leader.

Who would be good choices for Aztecs, Spain, or Arabia? My thought is that those of the original 18 nations that didn't get a new leader in Warlords will likely do so this time around...

I hope that there will be a confirmation whether Warlords content will be included or not (at first I considered it an absurd idea but if the things really were like that in Civ3 then who knows). I don't own Warlords yet and now it seem that I'll have to wait some more.

I hope that there will be a confirmation whether Warlords content will be included or not (at first I considered it an absurd idea but if the things really were like that in Civ3 then who knows). I don't own Warlords yet and now it seem that I'll have to wait some more.

Well if warlords content is critical due to new civs and their buildings, it would seem that its on there as well.. However, there MAY be just plain ole BtS expansions too.
I have a C3C expansion that does not include PTW... But my PTW is a full civ version (vanilla included)
Hell, there aint no telling. The real question is if you wi;l be able to use BtS without Warlords

I hope that there will be a confirmation whether Warlords content will be included or not (at first I considered it an absurd idea but if the things really were like that in Civ3 then who knows). I don't own Warlords yet and now it seem that I'll have to wait some more.

It's likely that the gameplay changes from WL will be included in BtS, but not the scenarios.

I hope that there will be a confirmation whether Warlords content will be included or not (at first I considered it an absurd idea but if the things really were like that in Civ3 then who knows). I don't own Warlords yet and now it seem that I'll have to wait some more.

the press release mentions unique building, that means warlords features will be in. If this announcement had come a week earlier i wouldn't have bought warlords :sad:

It may mean that certain critical features from warlords are in the new expansion - redone traits, Great Generals, and UBs, but not the new nations and leaders. No Zulu, Carthage, or Vikings -- No Stalin or Churchill...

I'm really looking forward for this expansion... I hope that there will be really 'a massive increase in new units, buildings, and technologies'. I'm curious about corporations (will they use real names like Coca-Cola? they used real names for states, cities, techs, religions... :) but brand name is a registered trade mark ).

I'm also very interested in those new civs. I wonder if they finally included Poland... when will we know the full list of added civs???

It may mean that certain critical features from warlords are in the new expansion - redone traits, Great Generals, and UBs, but not the new nations and leaders. No Zulu, Carthage, or Vikings -- No Stalin or Churchill...

That would make sense as this way you could still play multiplayer BtS against players who have Warlords civs available, even if you aren't able to choose those civs yourself.

I do want to see a list of upcoming units. I am correct in that the expansion intends to focus on gunpowder warfare, yes? Perhaps we'll finally see the Mark V tank, biplane, mobile artillery (I missed the CivI mobile arty!) and mobile SAM implemented into the standard game without the need of a mod. Of course, I also hope they add to this list.

Wonder when they'll release a complete brief?

IRT Vile - MP brings up a problem...a person with Civ4+BtS wouldn't be able to play a person with Civ4+Warlords+BtS -- with none of the assets available to see Shaka on the screen, would it not crash the session?

"You have founded McDonalds."

+2 unhealthiness in all cities! :lol:

It may mean that certain critical features from warlords are in the new expansion - redone traits, Great Generals, and UBs, but not the new nations and leaders. No Zulu, Carthage, or Vikings -- No Stalin or Churchill...

People can always Mod them in, so I Don't see a reason for the Makers not to include the new nations form Warlords.

They'd probably implement a ban on using art assets just like they did with the PtW stuff from Civ3. Hamstrung a lot of great ideas with that one.

Another point: We're already assuming Blake's BetterAI is going to be made standard. Jdog's been quiet, Dale's been quiet, and TheLopez is also silent. All three of these guys implemented some incredible code into the game. Who would like to speculate what additional mods could become standard features?

Wow, the Charlemagne Mounted Units certainly looks like the spearmen version of the Numidian Cavalry (Numid Cav being fast Axemen and so the Charlemagne being fast spearmen): +50% vs. mounted units maybe.

now i think BtW discussions deserve a new subforum

As asked earlier, for Arabia I'd imagine maybe everyone's favorite prophet-whose-face-you-cant-show-for-risk-of-explodey. Knowing Sid, there'd probably be a few jokes about that.

And, I agree. This needs its own subforum like Warlords has.

I just hope that the new features like corporations and natural disasters don't end up as annoying and useless as the vassal state system.

I just hope that the new features like corporations and natural disasters don't end up as annoying and useless as the vassal state system.
I like the vassal system a lot. :p

I have a bad feeling they will be.
You just know there'll be one event that just angers -everyone-. Like. Worse than when someone beats you to the Oracle when you're two turns from it.
I can see it now...

"Oh my god! Sharks with lasers are attacking!" *All of your coastal cities are destroyed, shark barbarians that shoot lasers now wander around the continent* *caused by uranium being too close to the water*

Here are my predictions on what will be in BtS, based on the information now available. If I turn out to be wrong...well, you can all have a good laugh. At least it gives us something to talk about in the meantime.

10 New Civs will be Babylonia, Dutch, Portuguese, Native Americans (we know these 4 for sure), and probably Maya, Brazil, Polynesia or Siam (or perhaps both), and Byzantines. The other two, I'm not sure... maybe Hittites, Sumeria (although this might be overkill if Babylon is in; still, considering they were supposed to have been in Civ 4...), or perhaps another African empire, like Nubia or Songhai. I don't give Poland very good odds, but anything's possible.

Existing civs most likely to get a new leader: America (we know already), Greece, Spain, Rome, Arabia, Japan. (I am a bit skeptical about Rome and Japan.) Ottomans is also a good choice. Note that this assumes six civs will get new leaders (16 new leaders - 10 for new civs), but we don't know if some of the new civs will have 2 leaders, which cuts this down even further. I can't see Lenin as a new Russian leader, since this would give them four.

I'm willing to bet the Portuguese UU is the Carrack or equivalent (unless they've truly embraced that "land-only" mentality), the AEGIS crusier has made a comeback (and I hope cruise missiles, too), and paratroopers are in.

[EDIT: Brazil and Portugal together are probably overkill, so I'm going to change my vote from Brazil to Hittites. And it looks like France will have a third leader, too.]

I'd rather see Meiji as the second Japanese leader.

Who would be good choices for Aztecs, Spain, or Arabia? My thought is that those of the original 18 nations that didn't get a new leader in Warlords will likely do so this time around...

It's hard for the Aztecs to have a second leader because it only had an imperial period for a short time (a century or so), with four noted leaders in total, two of them called Moctezuma.
Itzcoatl was leader when Aztecs were freed from Tepanec control.
Ahuitzotl was the other leader during the imperial period responsible for major expansion of the empire (other leaders existed but it was a smaller city-nation at the time).

Perhaps I'm being foolish....But isn't it realistic to assume Charlemange will be one of the new leaders? Considering one of the new units is the "Charlemange mounted Unit"....He could be the third leader for the French...Assuming they don't use DeGaulle or Joan of Arc

I thought about this, too, but Charlemagne is most likely in a scenario. Doesn't mean he's not a regular leader, though.

is this guy charles de gaulle?

It could be....Personally, I would rather have Charlesmagne than De Gaulle as the third French leader...But I can't be arsed one way or the other.

Yes, that's DeGaulle all right! I knew I should've listed France as another possible civ! You know what this means, right? WW2, here we come!!!

Compare feldmarshall's picture with this one:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/306/degaulleowidz9.th.jpg (http://img469.imageshack.us/my.php?image=degaulleowidz9.jpg)

with roosevelt, churchill, stalin and (if true) de gaulle, hitler must be also in

now we have Lincoln, Sitting Bull, Hammurabi, unknown Dutch, unknown Portuguese, and possibly de Gaulle and Hitler...

If Hitler's in, it must be only in a ww2 scenario. I can't see Firaxis adding him as a regular leader, what with all the controversy that would arise. But he's probably in there somewhere, if only in a scenario.

with roosevelt, churchill, stalin and (if true) de gaulle, hitler must be also in

now we have Lincoln, Sitting Bull, Hammurabi, unknown Dutch, unknown Portuguese, and possibly de Gaulle and Hitler...

I don't know... Definitely for the WW2 Senario, but as actual normal leaders in BTS? I Dunno, the french leader maybe, Hilter??? VERY UNLIKELY... but you never know. If you have one you might as well have them all saying lol!

You know, considering they've played up the fact that this expansion focuses on late industrial / modern times... I'd kind of expect the new leaders to reflect that. DeGaulle has definite possibilities.

If Hitler's in, it must be only in a ww2 scenario. I can't see Firaxis adding him as a regular leader, what with all the controversy that would arise. But he's probably in there somewhere, if only in a scenario.

Makes sense to me. Hitler is taboo, but you have to have him in a WWII scenario (provided that you're fighting against him and not as him :p).

We need a New Zealand civilisation!

And bring back the Civ 2 Entertainment Advisor. Elvis lives!

And, I agree. This needs its own subforum like Warlords has.

Or finally merge them all into the General Discussion forum so I don't have to check 5 forums to stay up-to-date.

Rince

THe Dutch will get 2 leaders. A ww2 and a conquest of the new world leader?

Dutch will rule the world once again :lol:

How will it work for people without Warlords, is warlords included, is warlords needed but not included (if so, will there be packs with both games) or is warlords not needed and not included?

Isn't it funny that Hitler is taboo but not Stalin or Mao who are already in? Wonder how that works.

I like de Gaulle over Charlemagne since Charlemagne isn't totally a French leader; as in, the French nation as it is today wasn't around in Charlemagne's time.

The Ottoman probably deserve to get Suleyman or the like as a leader, and India could probably stand to have another leader (Akbar probably).

i'm tellin' you guys... expansion will dissapoints us all. After poor Worlords scenarios I'm not expecting much.

It's only way to take some money form us - the CivFanatics.

It's a free world. If you don't like it then don't buy it. Of course it's just a way to get money from you. It's a business!

If they want to maximize the profits, which I'm sure they do, they would want to maximize the quality of the product as well. So I do hope that they are trying to take our money.

i'm tellin' you guys... expansion will dissapoints us all. After poor Worlords scenarios I'm not expecting much.

It's only way to take some money form us - the CivFanatics.

I don't think most of us really care that much about what you think. I know I certainly will buy it right away, just like I did with Warlords, and I had no regrets about that. What's $30 for a game that I still play every day?

Besides, I don't think we can overlook the ongoing success of Civilization. Clearly they're doing something right to maintain such a huge fanbase.

Hell, I usually start a new game by the time I reach gunpowder units, so I am definitely looking forward to anything that breathes new life into this part of the game...

If the Byzantines aren't in this expansion i will be pissed, they were around for a thousand years, and did somemuch to save the literature of the classical era. Hopefully there UB will be the Theodosian Walls.

Or better still have the Theodosian Walls as a new wonder, it would keep us builder happy, giving say 200% defence against LAND invasions, while leaving the player an oppurtunity to land a sea invasion(good oppurtunity for vikings eh?), and of course the defence would be obsolete with gunpowder.

As for the Corperations aspect, hopefully it will be simliar to embassies in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization. In that you can build one, or if you havent built one after a while they automativally get established.

I hope Firaxis makes it so that Corpations are available with currency and civil service, not with corperation; which would be to late (in my opinon) to make a significant impact.

Also for naming would they be named after a founder e.g British Petroleum (BP)a place e.g. East India Trading Company, or a founder e.g. Ford. Hopefully the more corperations with HQs in ur nation the more money you can get from taxing them, perhaps the HQs will act like shrines, in that money pours in there.

Finally that domed city says to me future combat, a defence against nukes, ot other attacks on cities, perhaps it will need a special new weapon or tech. to take down. Of course a defence like that would need a fusion or fission reactor to power, preferably fission, that way you could cut off the Uranium supply, although it might work if they added Lithium as a resoure.

Can't wait:
also someone said earlier that the fiscal year ends in nov. i'm pretty sure it ends in april, so a june release would still be a 2008 fiscal release.

My vote for 2nd Aztec leader goes to Ahuitzotl. I just don't know what traits I'd give him.

My guess is that corporations will work exactly or very similar like they did in Civ 2 - Call to Power. After you had researched the Bureaucracy tech you could build special units, which were invisible to other civs. They were quite cool, little persons sitting behind a desk :D . You then could move 'em to foreign cities and "attack" 'em. If you had success a certain amount of the city's production went into your cities and was lost for the foreign city. As counter you had the lawyer unit, the only unit that could see the Bureaucrats and destroy them by suing them. Unfortunately the feature wasn't implemented that well, the AI was using it to an extent that you had to have 2 lawyers in every city in the late game even on low difficulty levels.

I'm looking forward to the expansion, sounds good to me ! Especially the new wonders and the new Civs. Hopefully we finally get Austria as Civ :lol: !

Imhotep

30 bucks is 3 movies in a theater. 3 months of the 2nd lowest netflix account. a good night out at the bar.

ive spend more hours playing civ in the last 6 months than doing any of those things. the more you play the day to day costs are lower.

Will there be any new resources (saltpeter, rubber etc.) ?! I think a couple new food, strategic and luxury resources would be great. Addition of saltpeter would have a big effect on mid-game strategies... :)

New land types (marsh, wetlands) ?
I also would love to see option for civil wars to be added in this expansion. Also Hitler is a must have leader (Agg/Cha) :king:

I have been longing this second expansion for a long time now. So great that it is finally coming! Only four months of waiting. :D

I hope that Sioux UU is Brave (replaces Axeman). Str.6 Move.1 Cost.40 (?) Starts with Guerilla I and Woodsman I.

Can't wait to hear more about the new civilizations and the leaders!

Hitler is a taboo because he attacked other countries (and his own people.)
Mao and Stalin focused on killing their own people.
Honestly, I think they should just add Hitler already. I mean come on, they have all the other WW2 leaders now. And the only Civ4 players who'll complain are the ones who complain about everything already.
Hitler is less of a taboo in popular culture now, though. Fullmetal Alchemist movie, anyone? Anime Hitler. ...No, not a chibi dictator shouting in a squeaky voice, but that'd be amusing.

Cuba would be interesting to see.
Just a thought.
I can actually picture Castro's civ4 leaderhead.

Hitler killed people for who and what they were, while Stalin/Mao killed because of what they'd done/thought they'd done. Hitler being in the game would legitimise him as a leader, why not have Pol Pot in aswell?

The Hitler argument should end once and for all, Firaxis should come out and say he will never be put into the a civ game, then the community can move on.

Pol Pot never really did anything for his own country, however.
Hitler did.
Not saying that he was a nice man or anything, just saying that he did do a lot for Germany.

My definition of a leader worthy of Civ-inclusion is one who's transformative. Mao and Stalin, despite their faults, transformed China and Russia. Hitler, however, took a conquered, economically-devastated nation and turned it into a ... conquered, economically-devastated nation.

I'm just speculating but maybe the expanded space race is not like the Civ 2 space race.
Maybe its like a series of mini space projects before the building of the alpha centuri ship e.g. 1st satelites 2nd manned voyage to moon 3rd manned voyage to mars 4th manned voyage to outer solar system 5th alptha centuri.
I get the strong impression that Firaxis are looking to add some future era stuff (many fans have been asking for this). the current space race really belongs in a future era anyway as there's no way humans will achieve this in the next 200 years IMO

I was also thinking the apostolic palace probably requires civs to share state religion before they can take part in / be bound by votes - so anyone trying for an early diplo win would have to find and convert everyone before civs start adopting free religion (if players can win that way then they've earnt it IMO)

I really hope that they dont have names of real corporations in the game - I dont want to be setting up a set of American corps (no doubt they'd nearly all be American) such as McDonalds, Ford, Citibank, Starbucks, Tommy Hilfiger, Enron, Monsanto etc etc - that would massively suck big time. I would prefer they keep it generic by just referring to markets e.g. freight & shipping, petrochemical, automotive, textiles, agriculture, pharmaceutical etc etc. I remember one of the civfans coming up with a corporation idea that played a bit like monopoly - it seemed kind of cool - I wonder if Firaxis based corps on his idea.
I also hope that corps become available before the corp tech e.g. teas & spices and textiles

Hitler is taboo also for the neo-nazi element that exists today that practically worship him. Those people would be living out their Aryan master race fantasies by having Hitler rule the world. The other dictators don't have that kind of following. Firaxis will want to distance themselves from that kind of thing i'd imagine.

Untrue.
There are groups in China who worship Mao
And of course a lot of commie groups (often terrorist groups) who worship Stalin.
Pol Pot... okay he probably don't have a following.

And Hitler did have a lasting effect on Germany, I'd say atleast slightly transformative. I'd put him on the same level as Stalin.

Please, do not turn this to ANOTHER A.H thread. There has been like billion of those and subject has been beaten to death.

also someone said earlier that the fiscal year ends in nov. i'm pretty sure it ends in april, so a june release would still be a 2008 fiscal release.

not in this case. Take2 defines their FY as ending on October 31, which would make the game they said would be released in FY2008 November at the earliest. July is FY 2007.


Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Fiscal 2006 Financial Results

New York, NY - February 28, 2007 - Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ:TTWO) today announced financial results for the third quarter, fourth quarter and fiscal year ended October 31, 2006.
[...]
In addition to the licensed 2K Sports lineup, starting in 2008, 2K will have new content based on its Civilization franchise and other products, including both original intellectual property and third-party titles.

press release on Take2 site (http://ir.take2games.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=231968)

don't get me wrong, i hope it's wonderful and of course i'd rather have a chance to play it in july rather than wait until october :). it just sent a little warning flag off in my head, that they made such a big change from plans they published just 4 weeks ago. rushed products usually aren't well-tested; every new release will have bugs, even if they test it from now until november, but moving it up that much is a significant change, gives less time than originally planned for testing by definition.

Y'know, a Vatican Empire could be neat.
Play as popes.
Popes I say!

Ah, fiscal years. If centuries weren't annoying enough.
"It happend in the 18th century so it must be either the 1700s or the 1900s..."
Times like these I just want a huge watch with -everything-. Fiscal year, century, every time zone DST and no, every old-time, and maybe one that's just a blinking 12:00. Power outage time.

I welcome gladly any expansion to the core game, but I don't like scenarios which, I find, are by their nature limited in scope as compared with the core. I would much prefer it if the producers devoted the time taken to producing a scenario to truly expanding the core, as presumably a new unit or tech takes equal time to prepare for either version. However, as usual it's already too late to do anything but hope that your favourite addition will appear, as no doubt the programming has been completed and BtS is now going through the production process, Speculation is pointless.

I personally never play the scenarios.
Feels too restrictive for me. Never really feels like the true game, seems like scenarios should just be something fan made. Like in Starcraft. Maybe a scenario maker instead of releasing all these official ones.

do you think one of the added civs would be Israel?? it might cramp up babylon and Arabia in a world map, but they have been a major force in history

An Israel civ might be kinda.. hard. Given the shakey history of Israel.
Could be possible, though.

Did anyone else read the interview with Sid Meir last week? The one where he said he had no desire to do a more modern Civ game? Then this week they release a game that focuses on the modern age!!!

Your conflict-based games, Civilization, Colonization, Gettysburg, etc, are historical in focus. Have you thought about tackling modern wars?

Making a game based on modern wars is not something that interests me. The modern day reality that the games would require really diminishes the "fun" factor for me as a designer. I enjoy suspending reality in games and letting the imagination take control.

Im I the only one who read this?

Maybe that means this won't be modern. The focus will be on 20th century and future stuff, not late 20th/early 21st century things. Just my guess.

Pol Pot never really did anything for his own country, however.
Hitler did.
Not saying that he was a nice man or anything, just saying that he did do a lot for Germany.

Hitler was directly responsible for the death of millions of Germans in the concentration camps, in the bombing raids and at the war fronts. His actions lead to the devastation of Germany, it's partitioning and a fifty year occupation. He finally took the coward's way out of it. I would have to struggle pretty hard to think of a greater ****-up then old Adolf.

Hitler was directly responsible for the death of millions of Germans in the concentration camps, in the bombing raids and at the war fronts. His actions lead to the devastation of Germany, it's partitioning and a fifty year occupation. He finally took the coward's way out of it. I would have to struggle pretty hard to think of a greater ****-up then old Adolf.

I wouldn't. Stalin. Mao.

Look to the USSR after Lenin.

Hitler had some great accomplishments early on. Almost got rid of unemployment entirely, boosted Germany's economy up, very expansive leader.
Might be good to end the Hitler thing though, as it has been brought up that there have been multiple topics on the subject and it appears to be an argument that just does not end.

STFU with Hitler
I want him in game also but we can do nothing about it.

(quoting Sid Meier)
Making a game based on modern wars is not something that interests me. The modern day reality that the games would require really diminishes the "fun" factor for me as a designer. I enjoy suspending reality in games and letting the imagination take control.

Im I the only one who read this?

i didn't read it, do you have a link? that looks like an answer about making new games. BtS is an expansion to an existing game, that's not the same at all. admittedly i'm biased since i don't think i'd like a new game that's about modern war.

edit to not make the thread even longer: thank you for the link :) reading now!

i didn't read it, do you have a link? that looks like an answer about making new games. BtS is an expansion to an existing game, that's not the same at all. admittedly i'm biased since i don't think i'd like a new game that's about modern war.

Yes here is the link


http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2007/03/23/sid_meier_interview.html

STFU with Hitler
I want him in game also but we can do nothing about it.

I truly believe that Hitler should be in the game and cant understad why he isnt. Yes he was evil and killed countless innocent people but he was for a brief time a great leader (not a great person). Look at all the rest of the Leaders that were generals (uh Ghengis Kahn for one) and each of them have killed countless people maybe not on the same scale as Hitler but each is responsible for many deaths. Besides there have been mods with Hitler in them and no one seems to mind why not put him in the game.